Latest / WoT Spoilers / Vows - Knife of Dreams chapter 19 - EP493

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Vows - Knife of Dreams chapter 19 - EP493 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. I am so excited to do
• 0:20
  today's chapter. I'm almost stalling on getting it started because I'm loving the anticipation.
• 0:26
  Death Gates. Oh my god, Oh my god, I got I
• 0:30
  got all caps. But I guess the thing is so much of this chapter.
• 0:34
  Yes, there is death Gates, which is exciting, but there's so
• 0:38
  much more to talk about between loyal the marriage, which, by the way,
• 0:42
  when I'm getting married, the marriage is kind of exciting to talk about.
• 0:46
  I may dive deeper into that than you might expect. It is one
• 0:49
  of the best things ever, honestly, Ok, your wedding. Yeah,
• 0:52
  it's very cute. It's very cute, and I'm going to need to feedback
• 0:56
  on exactly what parts of it I'm going to use in my web all of
• 0:58
  it. It's pretty short and it wouldn't be that hard. And yeah,
• 1:04
  it's uh and then death Gates and Lewis theren and implications and Logaine and who
• 1:12
  sent the trolics? Right, there's so many good questions that come up in
• 1:19
  this chapter. You know, look at the timestamp now, because I don't
• 1:22
  I don't think it's going to be a short one. No, I kept
• 1:29
  highlighting, and then I would highlight the next sentence, and then I highlight
• 1:30
  the sentence after that, and then I'd be like, fuck, I just
• 1:33
  highlighted that whole page. Yeah. I was really spare with my highlights because
• 1:36
  I kept looking at it being like, well, Seth's definitely gonna want to
• 1:38
  talk about that, so I don't need to highlight it. Like my notes
• 1:42
  are fairly spare, because it's like, here's just the things I want to
• 1:45
  make sure that I get in between everything that I know Seth is gonna have
• 1:49
  to say. Jesus Christ. No, it's a very fun chapter to read
• 1:53
  a lot of It's a fun chapter in the sense also that like you've got
• 1:57
  a lot of stuff ending and start right because like the hunt for Loyal to
• 2:01
  get him married to eris the chase, the old gear chase, like you
• 2:06
  know, for that to culminate, and also to have Rand's relationship with tight
• 2:10
  with Logan and loose there and both really change, like there's a serious upgrade
• 2:16
  in both of those relationships. This is the start of a new phase of
• 2:21
  Rand feeling kind of hunted. Like we've got endings and beginnings all explosively happening
• 2:27
  here in this chapter, very very exciting. Not exactly episode five hundred.
• 2:31
  We tried to make it episode five hundred, and then that didn't work out,
• 2:36
  so it's not five hundred, it's four ninety three. But like,
• 2:39
  ah, this is gonna be this is gonna be a fun chapter. This
• 2:43
  is gonna be a real fun chapter. And then I think episode five hundred,
• 2:46
  this is the thing from now long. We said this at the beginning
• 2:49
  of the last episode. We are on the Jordan wrapping up plot lines that
• 2:55
  he has been setting up for three books, and at this point, you
• 3:00
  know, probably six years, right, like this is there's so much going
• 3:05
  on, and each one of these chapters is a fucking banger. So yeah,
• 3:09
  So with that, are we ready to get into vows? Uh huh.
• 3:16
  I kind of wanted to try something a little bit different for the reading
• 3:20
  because it's loyal and it's not written as loyal povs. But if you take
• 3:27
  the he's and turn them into eyes, it is Loyal's POV right, So
• 3:34
  I kind of want to do the reading in Loyal's POV replacing the keys with
• 3:38
  eyes in a Kramer loyal voice. Okay, I don't, okay, So
• 3:46
  it might be if you hate it, well, yeah, and we'll do
• 3:50
  it just normally. I I like it. Chapter nineteen vows the symbol is
• 3:54
  the uh wheel and snake because in the pattern, I don't know, that's
• 4:00
  just momentous thing things happening, heavy plot stuff, big, big, important
• 4:06
  plotty things uneasy. I watched Ninive glide off down the lamp lit corridor in
• 4:15
  one direction and veriin in the other. Neither was much taller than my waist,
• 4:19
  but they were eyes to die. The fact noted my tongue sufficiently,
• 4:25
  but that by the time I had worked up the nerve to ask one of
• 4:29
  them to accompany me, both were out of sight around sharp corners. The
• 4:34
  Mala House was a rumbling place added to over many years, with no real
• 4:42
  overall plan that I could discern, and hallways frequently met at odd angles.
• 4:49
  I really wished I had an eye die for company when I faced my mother,
• 4:56
  even cord Swain, although she made me very nervous with how she was
• 5:00
  always pinching it Rand sooner later Ran was going to explode. He was not
• 5:09
  the same man I first met in Camlin, or even the man I left
• 5:14
  in Carrion. The mood around Rand was dark and stony, now a dense
• 5:20
  patch of lions claw on treacherous ground under foot. The whole house felt that
• 5:28
  way with Rand in it. A lean, gray haired serving woman carrying a
• 5:33
  basket of folded towels gave a start, then shook her head and muttered something
• 5:40
  under her breath, before offering me a brief curtsey and walking on. She
• 5:45
  made a small side step, as though she was moving around something or someone.
• 5:51
  I stared at the spot and scratched behind my ear. Maybe I could
• 5:57
  only see ogi dead, not that I actually wanted to. It was sad
• 6:03
  enough just knowing that human dead could no longer rest. Having the same confirmed
• 6:11
  from ougear would be enough to break my heart. Most likely they would appear
• 6:16
  only in side steadying. In any case, I would very much like to
• 6:23
  see a town vanish, though not a real town, but a town that
• 6:28
  was as dead as those spirits the humans claimed to see. You might be
• 6:33
  able to walk the streets before it melted and see what people were like before
• 6:39
  the War of the hundred Years, or even the trolic wars. So Vern
• 6:45
  said, and she seemed to know a very great deal about it. That
• 6:50
  would certainly be worth a mention in my book, it was going to be
• 6:56
  a fine book. Scratching my beard with two fingers is the thing itched,
• 7:01
  I sighed, it would have been a fine book. That was fantastic so
• 7:12
  much. Yeah, that was fun. That was fun. The second paragraph
• 7:16
  with my book was a lot better and easier. Yeah, that definitely you
• 7:21
  you learned a lot about how to do that voice over the course of doing
• 7:26
  those two paragraphs. Hear the learning curve. Yeah, especially once I cut
• 7:31
  out all the parts where you broke out of it, It's gonna be a
• 7:35
  very interesting like you sledding in and out, in and out, just oscillating
• 7:40
  around it until you figure it out by the end, like, yeah,
• 7:44
  well you know this is this is why Michael Kramer and Kate Writing are the
• 7:46
  masters, because that was hard and that was that was really difficult, I
• 7:51
  will say, to maintain a consistent voice, and thank god they just do
• 7:57
  it constantly anyway. It's it's a skill that takes you to learn. But
• 8:01
  there's a couple of things to talk about in that excellent read. Totally,
• 8:05
  totally, totally. First of all, just loyal really catching the vibe between
• 8:11
  kat Swain and Rand that she is actively poking at him. Because he is
• 8:16
  so close to exploding and that's the only way she knows how to try to
• 8:20
  like lacerate that boil or whatever, like she needs him to explode to some
• 8:26
  degree. And Loyle doesn't get her reasoning, but he does see what is
• 8:31
  happening. The eyes did I make him nervous? Right, We've seen that
• 8:33
  before with Loyle. Right here, he's saying like he can't even ask one
• 8:37
  of them. They'll accompany him well, but specifically Cat Swain at Rand is
• 8:41
  something that he's pointing out as like he can see what Kat Swayin's doing,
• 8:46
  and he is afraid of all of it because you know, he's an emotional
• 8:50
  creature. He's not he doesn't know things. He feels things, and he
• 8:54
  feels Rand is basically this storm that's about to break. And also he knows
• 9:00
  how dangerous Rant is right, like to a greater degree than most people,
• 9:03
  because again he's got like the dogs Spidey senses, right like he knows things
• 9:09
  at a deep level that the mind cannot touch. I mean, he's Rand's
• 9:15
  therapy dog. Let's be honest, if he had more time with Rand,
• 9:18
  Randt would probably do a lot better. Listen, Rand has to go to
• 9:22
  work. He left the dog at home. You know, Loyle didn't want
• 9:26
  to be left at home, but yeah, he needed his therapy, his
• 9:30
  therapy, O gear, his serface, O Gear. I still think loyal
• 9:33
  is a great name for a puppy. Oh my god, dog totally,
• 9:37
  totally. What's your dog's name? Loyal? Oh, he's loyal? Get
• 9:41
  it. But also you'd spell it loyal and we'd all knows, and then
• 9:46
  everyone would be like, that's a really weird way to spell it, except
• 9:48
  for like one person, who'd be like, ah, let me tell you.
• 9:54
  It's more than one person. I'm shocked how many people in my workplace
• 9:58
  have read The Wheel of Time, and how many people are in my life
• 10:01
  that I'm discovering. If you are out about enjoying the Wheel of Time,
• 10:05
  people will approach you and be like, hey, I also read the Wheel
• 10:09
  of Time. Can you like connect me to anybody else who's read The Wheel
• 10:15
  of Time? Because it's like, I don't really want people to know about
• 10:18
  it, because there's some prejudice in the workplace against people who read and listen.
• 10:28
  I'd like, so, I know you're out about this in public,
• 10:31
  and you take a pretty big risk, and I appreciate that. Is there
• 10:33
  any way you could connect me to other people? See visibility and representation matter
• 10:39
  people, So you did see what I was doing. So then the next
• 10:52
  step, of course, we've got the dead people. And that's where I
• 10:54
  want to get into the philosophical discussion about the dead oh Gear and them only
• 10:58
  appear on stettings, And then I need to tie that into the book of
• 11:03
  Translation, which we talk about later, because Okay, here's Loyal saying that
• 11:09
  if O Gear dead did appear, they would only appear on O Gear steadings
• 11:16
  on the edges of studdings in the real world, not in studdings on the
• 11:22
  edges of stetdings, but in the real world. Part right, No,
• 11:26
  that's likely most likely the inside steading in any case. But isn't it that
• 11:31
  they appear on the outside in the actual last battle? Oh gosh, I
• 11:35
  don't remember. That's a good check, Yeah, because don't they because I
• 11:39
  think that they appear on the outside looking in, And it's really creepy,
• 11:43
  like that's an image that like lives in my head. So I'm pretty sure
• 11:48
  I'm not making it up because I wish it would go away. So I'm
• 11:54
  pretty sure it was put there forth the place. So then what is the
• 11:56
  Yeah, so then I have to wonder, like what is going on with
• 11:58
  the battle and over your steading? And like they in the Book of Translation
• 12:03
  really appears to say that the stettings are islands of another world translated right in
• 12:11
  the mathematical sense of translate, meaning moving from one place to another, not
• 12:15
  in the grammical version of translating from one language to another. Right, it's
• 12:20
  they're translated from one world to another. And somehow the fact that there's because
• 12:24
  they're interdimensionally right, because right, Okay, yes, I guess that's you
• 12:31
  know, that's just like, yeah, they're interdimensional aliens. How else do
• 12:33
  you take this evidence? And what else can you say about it? Like
• 12:37
  they're clearly you know, pulled in from a portal world or some other you
• 12:43
  know, plane even of existence. That's like that's what I But it doesn't
• 12:46
  seem like it's some other plane of existence. It does seem like it.
• 12:48
  It literally is just a portal world or a parallel universe where they are moving
• 12:54
  from one place to the other. Yeah, I mean some some parallel universe
• 13:00
  variation on the sentient hominid with a love of books, you know, like
• 13:05
  right, it's just it's a thing that exists. But yeah, we need
• 13:11
  to find that about. We need to find out about how they appear in
• 13:16
  the Last Battle. Obviously I have not read those books recently, so I
• 13:18
  don't fucking remember. Because when I read this, I literally my brain just
• 13:22
  put the word outside there until you made me go and read it with like
• 13:26
  my actual eyeballs and not my expectations. Isn't that funny how a brain was
• 13:31
  God, never trust your brain. Gang figure out a way to triangulate what
• 13:35
  the truth might possibly be with your brain as the least important part of said
• 13:41
  triangle. Because ah, so then somehow, you know, clearly the Dark
• 13:46
  One still has an effect. It's just got to be this passive effect that
• 13:50
  he's creating. Can't be something he's actively doing. Yeah, I think because
• 13:54
  the Dark One is Lord of the Grave, you know, blah blah blah,
• 14:00
  but also only captures like certain souls. Right, So it's like that
• 14:05
  the general veil between death and life would get a little blurrier during like his
• 14:11
  push during his Ragnarok you know, Army of the Dead kind of situation,
• 14:18
  right that that makes sense even people who aren't in the Army are still being
• 14:24
  revived in some fashion because just the power that death has is getting weird.
• 14:31
  At the end of days. I'd almost say it's almost like time is getting
• 14:35
  wibbly wobbly, right, that you have because these people are just reenacting their
• 14:39
  lives in some ways, right, Like, these aren't people that are yes
• 14:45
  they're dead, but they're not ghosts coming back to haunt the living and react
• 14:48
  to the living. Right. Echoes, Yeah, they're more echoes. They're
• 14:52
  more because people always see people that they know and that they recognize that have
• 14:56
  been dead for four or five generations. But it's like, oh, there's
• 14:58
  a grand or whatever, and it's like yeah, So it's very much well
• 15:03
  not necessarily because like Matt just sees the dead people on the street. I
• 15:07
  think it's just the reappearing where they used to be. So if you're living
• 15:09
  in Grandma's house, you're gonna see Grandma's That's what I'm saying. That's what
• 15:13
  I'm saying is like we're in these old rambling houses that people have inhabited forever
• 15:18
  and ever, and the same family is still there and they're not seeing random
• 15:22
  dead people. They're seeing the people who used to walk these hallways, right,
• 15:26
  yes, Matt is seeing just whoever, you know, because he's in
• 15:30
  town of the week, so of course he doesn't recognize anyone. But and
• 15:35
  same in the tower, right, they don't see random people, they see
• 15:37
  eyes to die. So it does seem to be very much tied to the
• 15:41
  places that people used to be physically. So yeah, much more like echoes
• 15:45
  than poultergeists. M hm. So yeah, yeah, I think being lord
• 15:50
  of the grave that might even be a bit of a misnomer because like,
• 15:52
  these ghosts aren't well, I was gonna say, the only thing is you
• 15:54
  can get sucked into them, right, And that's the thing I wanted to
• 15:58
  point out as loyals and naive assumption that you could just go on a field
• 16:03
  trip through one of these towns. And I'm thinking of the peddler sinking into
• 16:07
  the ground with the schiotin village like screaming with his voices. You know,
• 16:10
  it's like loyal, loyal. I hope you never see one of those towns.
• 16:15
  Then you're gonna get dead. You might see a lot more of it
• 16:18
  than you think, right, Like exactly the last question, are you just
• 16:22
  teleported back in time? Then? Is there some weird time you whinmy and
• 16:26
  you just wake up. You're sucked down, and you're like, oh shit,
• 16:27
  now I'm in the past forever. I mean, I'd like to assume.
• 16:32
  So yeah, yeah, because you know, I mean, allah of
• 16:37
  the Big Bang, all of time and space exist at one place, in
• 16:40
  one point, you know, all of everything that has ever existed existed at
• 16:44
  the point of the Big Bank. So like, there's no reason why he
• 16:47
  can't like live out a life like you know, a Yankee and King Arthur's
• 16:51
  court or whatever. And then here's my other question from that paragraph. Why
• 16:55
  can't Loyal see human dead? I assumed it was just an interesting scis thing.
• 17:00
  You can only see people with whom you have some form of kinship,
• 17:03
  and O Gear being interdimensional, don't have any genetic kinship to humans because they're
• 17:11
  just from another plane of existence altogether, I'm assuming humans won't be able to
• 17:15
  see O Gear dead either. Well, let's check that last yeah bit in
• 17:18
  the last battle again, because uh that it just it just seems very weird.
• 17:23
  Yeah, And it could just be that this is the only time that
• 17:27
  the spirit maybe appears to just one person. Maybe sometimes spirit appear to some
• 17:32
  people and not others, right, Like there's if these are just echoes,
• 17:36
  right, who says that everybody can see them? Yeah? Yeah? And
• 17:38
  then there's that because Tuon didn't see the people that Matt was dodging around?
• 17:44
  Are you dancing like? I mean? Because she's not seeing the things he's
• 17:48
  dodging exactly. So maybe like this isn't an o gear human person. This
• 17:52
  is just like that spirits might only appear to some people and not to others.
• 17:56
  And it has nothing to do with Loyal not being able to see human
• 17:59
  spirits and everything to do with Loyal being in a place where he's never known
• 18:03
  anyone at all, because he's just there for a few days with Rand.
• 18:07
  It's just not not his space. That's totally valid possibility. R J wants
• 18:12
  us to think it's interspecies or is it that's the question? I think sometimes
• 18:19
  Jordan like literally would leave both options open because he's like, I don't know,
• 18:22
  I'll figure it out later. Yeah, and we are, yeah,
• 18:27
  yeah, we are later. Would you like to proceed to paragraph three of
• 18:33
  the chapter? Let us do that. We might we might be on this
• 18:40
  one this There was a line here that reminded me of you put off clearing
• 18:56
  the bush and you always find choke vine in it the fact that you like
• 18:59
  start listening New Wheel of Time and or was it the podcast while you were
• 19:03
  clearing the time? Yeah, berry bushes. That's where a great many of
• 19:07
  my of my yes, much of my listens of the audiobook that led to
• 19:11
  me being the Iradiopedia you know and Love Today was done while clearing BlackBerry brush,
• 19:18
  specifically because the specific Northwest is choking to death on the invasive fuckers.
• 19:23
  I think choke vine, I think BlackBerry bush. Yeah. Yeah, imagine
• 19:26
  like an eight foot tall wall of blackberries and there's nothing else. And if
• 19:32
  you're not familiar with blackberries, imagine kuld zoo. But like with thorns the
• 19:37
  size of your thumbnail, very large thorns and a slightly brittler viinier like branchy
• 19:45
  or brushier sort of structure, a bit less like droopy, a bit more
• 19:48
  brittle, but it also clings to everything. Yeah. And I would go
• 19:52
  out there with like pruning shears and a rake, and I would just kind
• 19:59
  of like cut it down in chunks and then roll it up into these burritos
• 20:03
  and kind of like roll those across the ground and stack them up until I
• 20:07
  had a big old pile of those things and like, you know, a
• 20:11
  knee high field of stumps, and then we would set fire to it and
• 20:15
  try to burn it down. And I did that for like three years at
• 20:18
  the land I was at. You know, obviously all that work has gone
• 20:22
  away, come back, gone away, come back, because this stuff grows
• 20:26
  really fast. But like I did a lot of my learning of being able
• 20:30
  to just call up quotes from the book, like oh yeah, no,
• 20:33
  I just know exactly how Michael and Kate said it at that point. A
• 20:36
  lot of that I did, specifically while clearing blackberries. Like I did find
• 20:41
  the books before then, I did listen to them after then, but like
• 20:45
  the muscle memory of just being out there for hours just listening to these books,
• 20:51
  and like occasionally having to give a little blood to the war. And
• 20:53
  just like I love killing plants, like I am. You know, I
• 20:57
  know you hate astrology set but it's so close you years. But I'm a
• 21:00
  virgo, and virgos are normally associated with gardening. I am so good at
• 21:04
  killing plants. I am so good at killing hans. I cannot start a
• 21:08
  garden to fucking save my life, but I can kill plants so good.
• 21:14
  I love taking them down. It feels like a hand to hand combat.
• 21:18
  It's great. And yeah, Michael and Kate were just in my ears the
• 21:21
  whole time I was doing that. I never listened to anything else. Just
• 21:25
  weal the time, over and over and over and over and over. Okay,
• 21:30
  Balthamel taking out the green Man and loving it. Just call you Helima
• 21:36
  from now, Jesus, that would be a very interesting cosplay. That could
• 21:44
  be fun. Grandall is so over, I'm playing a Lima. I'm gonna
• 21:49
  go with Helima. Actually nice. I'm Balthamel in his physical body who has
• 21:57
  then become Helima but then goes back to balth them. I don't know.
• 22:00
  I'm trying to make make that work somehow. We'll work shop it, Yeah,
• 22:04
  we'll work shop it. Oh gear rooms. Right, this is a
• 22:08
  fucking old ass manner and it's got oh gear stairs. Oh gear rooms.
• 22:14
  It's your beds, beds decoration. It just shows how important O gear used
• 22:18
  to be. Yes, really, I mean that's just what it is,
• 22:22
  is that that these people held onto that respect for longer than almost anyone else.
• 22:30
  But like this used to be common when the O gear go out and
• 22:33
  they go wow, no one remembers us anymore. What the hell happened?
• 22:36
  All the beds don't fit. This is what they were expecting. This is
• 22:41
  the kind of hospitality that they assumed would just be in perpetuity because obviously,
• 22:47
  but how much of this is there simply because no one got rid of it?
• 22:51
  Right, Like, this is a sprawling mansion that keeps getting added on
• 22:53
  to and added on to and added on to. Nobody's taking down what used
• 22:56
  to be there. So it's not so much that they're like, oh,
• 22:59
  let's hold on to the tradition and let's remember the O gear as oh,
• 23:03
  yeah, we've got one of those rooms, let's air it out. Well,
• 23:07
  there's some dust in here, but uh yeah we can. We can
• 23:10
  replace the betting. You know. That's that's kind of what I imagine.
• 23:14
  Yeah, I imagined that it was one of those things where there was enough
• 23:17
  respect for the O gear when it was relevant that no one ever wanted to
• 23:21
  get rid of it. Like there was never any like, ah, fuck
• 23:22
  the O gear. It was like no, no, no, the ogre
• 23:26
  is so important. They might come back someday. The ogre is so important,
• 23:29
  they might come back some day. Eventually, it just becomes we just
• 23:30
  respect those rooms for some reason, we don't really expect the ogre to come
• 23:36
  back, but like we would never get rid of them. I mean,
• 23:37
  like they were really important to great Grandma. Like, no, we're not
• 23:41
  gonna like get rid of it. That would be disrespectful to like the memory
• 23:45
  of our own ancestors, even if we don't really expect your guests. And
• 23:49
  then yeah, there's two hundred years of dust, but you know, the
• 23:55
  bowl of some wood is still sitting on the cabinet, and one other thing
• 23:59
  to can hitter. They are on the path between Kyrie and shang Tai Steading,
• 24:03
  right. We learned that later his mother has given up on the search
• 24:07
  for finding him and has left Kyrie Ann and goes to shang Tai Steading.
• 24:11
  And so they might be on one of the most popular O gear travel ways,
• 24:17
  right because Steading Shanghai Steading is one of the places where O gear are
• 24:21
  the most outgoing, and Kyrie Anne and you know, as one of those
• 24:27
  major cities where they might go to. Right, So if this is on
• 24:30
  the path between them, which it seems to be, because why the fuck
• 24:33
  else are the right because they're not looking for loyal they just stumble across him
• 24:40
  in this random town, in this random manner, in the middle of the
• 24:45
  woods. I guess I was kind of upset that I don't have an answer
• 24:48
  for that, Like I really was looking for, like why did they find
• 24:52
  him there? And it just seems to be they gave up on the search
• 24:53
  and Tavereren yep said, yep, yep, time to find your time.
• 24:57
  Time, time to find your son. Easy, go talk to the stump
• 25:00
  in order to convince everybody to support stay for the last procond. He can't
• 25:03
  do that until he's married, because Eric is the secret weapon that Loyle does
• 25:08
  not realize he needs. Yeah, that's all I got. But yeah,
• 25:12
  it's a cool detail to see what a properly furnished O gear accommodation is supposed
• 25:18
  to look like. Oh yeah, some of my theory is that maybe more
• 25:19
  people coming through here, so maybe it gets more use than I was initially
• 25:23
  thinking. Yeah, No, I like that. I think that that makes
• 25:26
  a lot of sense. That that's part of why the accommodations lasted here longest
• 25:30
  and still had respect was because it's like we've always been on this route,
• 25:36
  We've always been prone to having like guests of note who need to stay for
• 25:41
  a night or two, like, of course we maintained this, Like of
• 25:45
  course, that's just part of our house design and you would never tear those
• 25:48
  rooms down because that's part of who we are, is the people who provide
• 25:52
  Airbnb accommodations next to the airport or whatever. Also, yeah, country home,
• 25:59
  you know, traditions, they don't really keep up with the times as
• 26:02
  much. They might be more traditional as a person with a country home as
• 26:08
  a person who's been to your country home. Yeah, strange that Codswayne knew
• 26:17
  of her. His mother, Corrill, daughter of Ella, daughter of Sung,
• 26:23
  was a famous speaker, but he did not realize she was known outside
• 26:27
  outside. So I mean, Codswayne's three hundred, his mother is I don't
• 26:34
  think quite three hundred, because Elder Haman's three hundred, and she's younger than
• 26:37
  Elder Haman. But you know, there's three hundred ish years, maybe two
• 26:41
  hundred ish years in which they could have encountered each other. And the way
• 26:45
  Codswayne travels, I think she's been in Steading before. I think she's been
• 26:48
  to Stetting shang Tai before. Like I don't you know, Like I don't
• 26:52
  think there's a mystery there I think it's just we have two hundred years of
• 26:56
  history when these people could have encountered each other, and it's not spelled out
• 27:00
  when they did, but I'm assuming they did at some point and probably had
• 27:04
  a blowout of an argument. No, I totally could see that that kat
• 27:10
  Swain would not be intimidated by going into a studing and losing the source.
• 27:14
  I mean, look what she does when she gets her hands on an ad
• 27:15
  down, she immediately puts it on to try to figure it out, right,
• 27:18
  like, how did she figure out her? Well, she must have
• 27:22
  gone into a steading at some point, right, right, she was born
• 27:25
  in farmatting, which is an artificial stetding, Like, she would not be
• 27:27
  intimidated by that which so many eyes said I are. And she probably had
• 27:33
  a curiosity about testing theories with like men who had to be gentle because they
• 27:37
  could channel, and steadying because she was interested in actually doing the job that
• 27:41
  the Reds were supposed to be doing. And you know, I mean we
• 27:45
  see that with Algaurin's brother, like the story of that like, so presumably
• 27:49
  she would have been yeah, cruising around looking for steadying at some point that
• 27:52
  wanted to talk and studying Shanghai is known as being one of the more friendly
• 27:57
  outgoing studding It totally makes sense that she would have started her search there being
• 28:03
  like, who wants to talk with me about stuff? And I could totally
• 28:06
  see a famous speaker being like, who is this human who has the audacity
• 28:11
  to come in here? And yeah, they probably had a very interesting discussion,
• 28:15
  you know, similar to it. I imagine like a Varren Codswain relationship
• 28:19
  between them, totally totally because they're not too dissimilar in age or craftiness,
• 28:25
  just in very different spheres. So they can see each other, like with
• 28:27
  sore Leia like kind of you know, equals, not really in a competitive
• 28:33
  way, just in a And honestly, this is one of the few people
• 28:36
  I can see Codswayne having respect for and ogear elder elder speaker, right,
• 28:41
  like the age, the intelligence, the patients, right Like Codswain doesn't respect
• 28:47
  many people, right she thinks the children and young and image and o gear
• 28:52
  okay, okay, yeah yeah yeah yeah, and then and the reverse is
• 28:56
  true, the Ogear respect I said, I right, so yeah, I
• 29:00
  can see a lot of mutual respects between these two parties. Yeah, totally,
• 29:03
  so yeah, I agree there's there's no mystery there. There's just two
• 29:06
  professionals who happen to be a like in standing, who have interacted at work
• 29:10
  events or whatever, cross disciplinary events. And then we get Chekhov's Acts,
• 29:19
  which is okay. In the room, this is a big description of the
• 29:22
  room, everything that's going on inside of it. And on the wall are
• 29:26
  two shiny axes and two shining pruning knives, and in the room we have
• 29:33
  two men and two women. I wonder if this will come in handy later,
• 29:38
  But is it really Chekhov's acts if it gets used? Yeah, that's
• 29:41
  the whole point of Chekhov's Acts is you can't put you can't Checkoff's guns.
• 29:45
  You can't put a gun on the wall. And then at some point later
• 29:48
  in the show it has to be used. It has to be shot.
• 29:52
  Oh. I thought the joke was that it's the thing that should have been
• 29:53
  used with then isn't Oh God, am I wrong about that? I have
• 29:57
  no idea. It's not one that I've seen. Hold on ye, I
• 30:00
  was gonna say that sounds more like a red herring. Yeah, I thought
• 30:03
  that it was the name of the specific kind of red hairing. But it's
• 30:07
  It's not one of the idioms that I see used particularly often, so I
• 30:11
  could be very wrong about that and would not be surprised. Yes, checkof's
• 30:17
  gun is the narrative principle that states that every element in story must be necessary
• 30:21
  and irrelevant elements removed. For example, if a writer features a gun in
• 30:25
  the story, there must be a reason for it, such as being fired
• 30:26
  sometime later in the plot. I've been so you know why. Why is
• 30:32
  why do we see the acts on the wall? It's because at some time
• 30:36
  later it's going to get pulled down and used. Okay, see So so
• 30:40
  okay, I'm gonna connect this to a completely other part of my life,
• 30:42
  which is that I am terrible at video games. And the reason that I
• 30:47
  am terrible at video games is that I am constitutionally incapable of following the wayfinding
• 30:53
  that the game designers put into the game. I cannot, for the life
• 30:59
  of me figure out where they want me to go, and will inevitably go
• 31:03
  everywhere else first and end up doing entire storylines fucking backwards because I went left
• 31:11
  instead of right, even though in hindsight they clearly made where I was supposed
• 31:17
  to go obvious and I feel like not understanding Chekhov's gun. It's just the
• 31:23
  most sympolic fucking conclusion to like, this is this is my problem. I
• 31:30
  literally don't understand what is foreshadowing. I just I cannot, which is ironic
• 31:37
  given the whole wheel of time thing, but oh my god, it's basically
• 31:41
  saying, upond, you came upon two paths in a forest, and you
• 31:45
  took the path less traveled than it made. Video games really fucking hard,
• 31:49
  yes, so hard, Like more than fifty percent of the time, I
• 31:53
  go the wrong way and click on the wrong clues, and like it's just
• 31:59
  really in fear. I'm constantly having to go to walk throughs to be like,
• 32:02
  but that was that was too obvious. And it's because I'm always like
• 32:06
  that was too obvious. Clearly I'm not supposed to do that because it's too
• 32:08
  obvious, and then I would end up eaten by a monster. I have
• 32:12
  to find the sneaky way, and then I end up like literally like doing
• 32:15
  plot segments backwards, and it's like annoying. I often I find myself doing
• 32:21
  the same thing. I love very linear games where you can't do anything except
• 32:25
  the thing that puts you that you're supposed to do like I actually kind of
• 32:29
  like being railroaded in a video game. Oh my god. I'm feeling so
• 32:31
  validated by chat and by you right now. Yeah, I know this is
• 32:35
  there's It seems to be very common for those of us who read stories rather
• 32:38
  than play video games. Right. We expect a story to proceed in the
• 32:43
  linear fashion, and when it doesn't, it drives us a little bit nuts.
• 32:46
  Oh my god. Yeah, I there is something about us birds flocking
• 32:52
  together over here in this corner of the internet. Oh my god. So
• 33:00
  back to the books. There's a description of Earth, which I have some
• 33:02
  questions about. Oh, are we gonna go full a vianda describing a lane
• 33:07
  on Earth? Now, No, not that bad. I'm just curious what
• 33:10
  exactly is the color of a silver bells ripe seed pod. I'm assuming silver.
• 33:15
  God, damn it, that's obvious now that you say that. I'm
• 33:19
  imagining like a really beautiful, like gray, like slightly like like new hairs,
• 33:23
  fuzzy like little seed pod. It's gotta be silver, silver, gray,
• 33:29
  and all like and none of the words that are coming to mind I
• 33:34
  want to say. Given language around women's existence in the world at this point,
• 33:40
  but yeah, I imagine silver or gray in the color of eyes,
• 33:45
  because gray eyes is a thing. Brand has eyes that are sometimes gray.
• 33:49
  That's true, Yeah, sort of a gray. He does describe gray eyes
• 33:52
  a lot in his books. And I have to wonder, like, Jordan,
• 33:55
  were you just a little color blind blue eyes is gray? Just wondering
• 34:05
  thought, Yeah, yeah, I guess I could do the whole description of
• 34:10
  Earth in Loyle's voice, but I think I am not going to do that.
• 34:16
  Yeah, it's just let's just say it's really cute when you're reading it,
• 34:21
  because it's like, Loyle, you have the biggest freaking crash on this
• 34:23
  girl, Like these are the thoughts of a man in love. I mean,
• 34:30
  spur real totally, and that mysterious smile where he's like, she couldn't
• 34:34
  know what I was thinking? Could she? She knows, Loyal, Yeah,
• 34:37
  she knows. Yeah, she saw you looking at her. Oh boy,
• 34:40
  he really does like me, Like, I mean, everything's fine,
• 34:44
  Loyal for being silly. It's very very cute. I guess I don't think
• 34:46
  we need to blow by blow read. And then I just love this contrast
• 34:52
  between Loyal's mother and eris. Oh my, Okay, So there's there's two
• 34:58
  different dynamics here that I love. Well, Okay, there's the before wedding
• 35:00
  dynamic and then there's the after wedding dynamic. Yeah, okay, okay,
• 35:05
  because before it's really the it's Elder Hammond against the two women. Right,
• 35:09
  there's the whole thing. Alder Hammond is trying to tell the story of loyal
• 35:13
  and the women keep interjecting things, and it's like a very funny like everyone
• 35:17
  talking over each other conversation with o Gear, which just makes it even funnier
• 35:22
  because they're like these big slow bumblebee voices, but also they're like ADHD levels
• 35:28
  of talking over each other. It's really funny, yeah, because it's like
• 35:31
  what would happen if you've got a bunch of Loyals together in a room,
• 35:35
  right that they just keep going right, so you have to talk over each
• 35:37
  other for anyone to get road right. It's the autistic representation in this scene
• 35:43
  is so real. Also, listening to Michael Kramer try and do three different
• 35:50
  fo Gear voices for a whole chapter and keep them consistent and different is absolutely
• 35:58
  an incredible Like if you're interest and have to try and just duplicate that,
• 36:01
  like if you can do that, You can do anything. That must have
• 36:05
  been a grueling day of work, yeah, or just fun. I bet
• 36:10
  he had a blast, I'll be I bet it was drooling on his voice,
• 36:14
  like his literal like voice. I said, that was a highering day
• 36:16
  of work you put in at the studio. But yes, I'm sure it
• 36:19
  was very, very fun intellectually. Mm hmmm. So they basically reiterate this
• 36:23
  story and remind us of all the stuff Oils done. You know, like,
• 36:28
  first he's brave in the two Rivers, then the ideal are calling him
• 36:30
  brave. Then we were wet, then we were dry. It's just a
• 36:32
  whole thing, and I love and every step earth is like and you were
• 36:37
  so heroic there and saved those people, and then you were you were so
• 36:42
  brave over there, and then oh my god, you just uh oh you
• 36:46
  just I just everyone's so happy. I think you're just wonderful. You know.
• 36:51
  It's just like and you're like, uh huh, honey, I think
• 36:53
  you may. I mean she's been basically following him this whole time and every
• 36:57
  place she goes, because like we've kind of been hearing it from POV and
• 37:00
  he's like, oh, I barely do anything, I just stand there and
• 37:02
  protect the children. You know. It's like yeah, yeah, okay,
• 37:07
  and murder a couple of murdrawl right to make sure that happens, right,
• 37:10
  no bait NBD, Right. So yeah, there's just there's things like that,
• 37:15
  and she's hearing it from the people who are basically worshiping his achievements and
• 37:21
  are like, oh my god, he was amazing. Of course, you
• 37:22
  know, and I'm sure his stories grow a little bit in the telling because
• 37:25
  he's a no gear, right, but like he saved all the children.
• 37:30
  I mean, like a little bit of a grandizement is going to happen,
• 37:35
  Like legends fade to myth, and the myths are fucking epic. It's that
• 37:38
  like when did you know you wanted to marry him? So when I found
• 37:40
  out he saved the group of school children, that that was somewhat convincing.
• 37:47
  Yeah, she's following him around like basically just on a glorified camping trip with
• 37:51
  her future mother in law and the principal from the school. Awkward as hell,
• 37:54
  right, But every now and then they've run across a group of people
• 37:58
  who were like, your future husband is like literally Jesus right, Like he
• 38:04
  saved half of our group. He was amazing. Also, did you know
• 38:07
  he reads books like everywhere she goes that's what she's hearing. And I mean,
• 38:13
  I'm sure the mother in law thing made it a tough sell, but
• 38:15
  that all the village people were very nice and so that, you know,
• 38:17
  pulled her back over because Culvil seems like a lot. Oh god, yeah,
• 38:22
  Corby, Well, I did want to say this in Kyrie, and
• 38:27
  your mother decided she couldn't stay away from the Great Stump any longer, though
• 38:30
  I cannot say why, since they aren't likely to reach any sort of decision
• 38:32
  for another year or two. So we sent out to return to setting Shangtai
• 38:37
  and hope we could find you later. And that's all we get about how
• 38:40
  they find him. Yeah, okay, so I decided to bring that up
• 38:45
  that like I can't say why? Well, yeah did? Why is?
• 38:47
  She must severe and twisting got her there at the right place at the right
• 38:52
  time, which meant Loyle running the whole time was silly because they were never
• 38:55
  going to catch him ntil the pattern was ready, or he would have gotten
• 38:59
  married in free of his mother's influence books and books ago, much like Avianda
• 39:02
  could have become a wise one without all the shenanigans if she had just stood
• 39:07
  up for herself. Ah, But would Loyle have the motivation to face the
• 39:12
  terror of the world outside if he wasn't fleeing from his mother? I mean
• 39:17
  because and effect man, would he really have dove deep into the danger that
• 39:25
  he did had some alliteration to it if he hadn't been fleeing from the terror
• 39:30
  that is his mother? And would he have taken those risks if he was
• 39:35
  a newly married man, like being torn between a wife who wants to settle
• 39:39
  down and the desire to be, you know, a bachelor adventurer. Maybe
• 39:45
  it would would be better to just be a bachelor adventurer running from the nemesis
• 39:50
  that is your mother for all things. I don't know, but Tavern said,
• 39:57
  yoink, let's have it happen now, and then we have the world's
• 40:00
  shortest wedding ceremony, which nobody expected from the Ogure. Everyone expected the o
• 40:05
  Gere to be like Catholic levels of like four days later you may now kiss
• 40:09
  the bride. But no, it's like a page. It's like that's it.
• 40:15
  Like the Ogre when they're serious, they don't fuck around, and I
• 40:17
  love the I just love the flirting between the two of them. It's so
• 40:21
  funny. They're asking her if she wants a husband, and she's like,
• 40:23
  yeah, I think so, especially one with such beautiful eyebrows, And the
• 40:28
  whole time he's been thinking in his head about how he like he doesn't want
• 40:30
  to comments on her eyebrows because that would be like inappropriate and rude. And
• 40:35
  it's just like, oh, that's a little spicy there. He's going,
• 40:38
  like, Loyal is going to have a fun marriage. Let's put it that
• 40:40
  way, Like he's going to discover some things about himself and about his wife.
• 40:45
  I also love the the actual like gender dynamic flip of how like Loyal
• 40:51
  and Elder Hammond are both blushing. I think it's inappropriate, while Earth and
• 40:54
  Kovil both think it's funny. Yeah, yeah, because that just you know,
• 40:58
  like the way that the matriarchy is really kind of oppressive to O year
• 41:01
  men. Just like that that felt really appropriate, but like it's okay for
• 41:07
  the dominant gender to make those jokes even while the submissive gender is like uncomfortable
• 41:13
  like that that feels on brand. There is a certain amount of flipping the
• 41:16
  gender stereotypes here with the o gear like right, instead of equalizing them,
• 41:22
  he's flipped them in some ways, right, this whole like men have zero
• 41:27
  say and who they marry whatsoever, and they're the blushing brides. Basically,
• 41:31
  Yeah, he's he's playing with that in a way that feels a little more
• 41:35
  believable than some of his other attempts. Some of the other attempts he's got
• 41:39
  at flipping that don't work so well, or creating equality or creating inversions don't
• 41:44
  work so well. This one feels a little more believable. And if you
• 41:46
  want to hear a whole bunch more of opinions on that, you should listen
• 41:50
  to season one of The Hot Nuanced book Club, where we discuss the ruins
• 41:54
  of Ombre and how all of that did or didn't land for us. And
• 41:58
  I get to talk with very part people who know more about these things and
• 42:02
  learn a lot more about that. But I noticed it here in part because
• 42:07
  of the discussions we had on Hot Nuanced, because it's just like this actually
• 42:09
  feels believable in a way that a lot of Robert Jordan's other flips don't.
• 42:16
  Yeah, I like it, and I find the wedding very romantic. It's
• 42:21
  so cute, so you want to get into it, you want to talk
• 42:22
  about all the ooey gooey o gear romance stuff. I guess I'm not really
• 42:29
  sure. Other than just reading it, I'm not really sure what else to
• 42:32
  do with it, other than to be like, oh, they're just being
• 42:35
  really cute the other one getting married. So I'll let you steer this section
• 42:40
  I did. I highlighted this and sent it to I Never, and I
• 42:44
  was like, I want to use some of this. I was thinking,
• 42:47
  like to treasure esteem and love him so long as he lives, to care
• 42:51
  for him and tend to him, to guide his path, his feet on
• 42:53
  the path they should follow. I think that's a good thing to use inside
• 42:57
  a wedding vow. I think you can. Yeah, probably not the son
• 43:02
  of a vow under the light and by the tree. That's a little specific.
• 43:08
  Yeah. And like the guiding his feet on the path they should follow
• 43:13
  is like in world is kind of like eh, but like in context of
• 43:17
  you, and Never is like, all right, fine, I'll allow it.
• 43:22
  I might use it. We'll see, we'll see. I'll talk to
• 43:23
  her about it. I have not yet, but I think that would be
• 43:27
  fun to use, because I mean we've got, of course, a wheel
• 43:30
  of time fan reading the vows right right right right, and me and like
• 43:36
  and she loves loyal and she know she knows how much I Yeah, No,
• 43:39
  Treasure, esteem and love is a really nice set of works. And
• 43:44
  it's yeah, and it's just a nice vow It's just I like the vowel,
• 43:46
  like, it's nice. It's nice. It's not too much on a
• 43:50
  pedestal, but it's enough on a pedestal to be like, No, this
• 43:52
  is that one special relationship, you know, And how often do we actually
• 43:57
  get the marriage ceremony? Like, I don't think we don't get Ninive in
• 44:00
  Land's marriage ceremony. Nope, we only have paren and Fayel in book four.
• 44:06
  Right, as far as I know, there's basically no other weddings of
• 44:12
  major characters that occur. Well, no, I mean Matt and Tuwan,
• 44:16
  but that's not a wedding ceremony in any yet. No, she's my bloody
• 44:22
  wife. Yeah, there's those I yield that get married, but that's all
• 44:28
  off screen. Yeah, there's just a lot of off screen marriages, right,
• 44:30
  Like Llewellyn and Baale Domon get married. Off screen. Oh yeah,
• 44:37
  more Gaze and Taalin Voor do get married on screen, but everybody hated that,
• 44:42
  so that doesn't count. No, that sucks. Yeah, no,
• 44:45
  I mean this is this to me is like the best marriage ceremony in the
• 44:47
  Wheel of Time. And for a book about bringing men and women together,
• 44:54
  that really should be more ceremonial bringing people men and women together. In the
• 45:00
  books. There was that one time in book three when Rand had a whole
• 45:05
  village marrying itself. Okay, that like, let's balanced it out on average.
• 45:12
  Oh okay, okay, okay, But yeah, it's this and Shadow
• 45:15
  Rising that are the two really beautiful wedding ceremonies that we get for the whole
• 45:20
  series. And then I love how at the end the first thing she says
• 45:23
  to him is you're very handsome. I think your mustaches will be beautiful on
• 45:28
  you a beard too, And his mother says nonsense, And that changes the
• 45:34
  dynamic immediately immediately. For a moment, he thought Airis's ears began to slant
• 45:43
  back. That had to be his imagination Earth turning on Loyle's mother being like,
• 45:54
  you married him to me, He's mine. Now back the fuck it's
• 46:00
  off. This whole thing about whether or not he gets to speak at the
• 46:04
  stump Erith. He's married, married, all married men have the ability to
• 46:07
  seek the stomp. I don't give a shit what you think. And Loyle
• 46:12
  is like, well, my mom surely expected to lose total control of me
• 46:15
  the second I got married. She knew that was coming. And it's like,
• 46:19
  have you met people? Uh huh uh huh, people don't give up
• 46:22
  power. You've met enough people by now you should know that that was never
• 46:25
  going to be that simple. No, No, you were always gonna have
• 46:29
  to take that, and thank god, Earth does take it. The way
• 46:32
  that she goes from nuzzling from looking at her new husband to just ears back,
• 46:37
  like glaring daggers at her mother in law, like, I have traveled
• 46:40
  with you for six fucking months. If you think I am going to let
• 46:45
  you one hair? Oh, my precious husband said you have another thing coming,
• 46:50
  mom, Because like she knows Kavriel, they have been traveling together.
• 46:54
  She knows this woman. She knows how browbeaten Loyle must be. Like hmm,
• 47:00
  And the thing is, I think Ereth has been masking this whole like
• 47:04
  covering up her real personality this whole time, right because she knows the second
• 47:10
  she's married, she's on equal footing. Oh totally. She's a smart cookie,
• 47:15
  she has and she's been manipulating the fuck out of this woman who all
• 47:21
  of a Loyal's mother, who's all of a sudden realizing, oh no,
• 47:27
  this is not the easily manipulatable pawd that I thought I was going to marry
• 47:32
  to my son so that I could continue to control his life. This is
• 47:36
  a woman of equal standing and power. And uh shit, Yeah, because
• 47:43
  Loyal says that ereth Is is wonderful to talk to. Well, mostly she
• 47:46
  listens and it's like, oh dude, that's such a red flag. And
• 47:50
  then he says, but when she does speak, she makes very cogent points,
• 47:54
  and it's like, uh huh. So she does talk, she does
• 48:00
  put things together. She is very much keeping up with you. She just
• 48:04
  likes the sound of your voice and lets you talk. That's what's happened,
• 48:07
  uh huh, Like and yeah, I could totally see her doing a silvase,
• 48:14
  you know, just being like, yes, whatever you say, convre
• 48:19
  whatever you need to hear to give me access to your sweet, brilliant son
• 48:22
  that you have locked away. And then and then once that paper is signed.
• 48:30
  Once the deed is done, she wastes no time. Those ears go
• 48:34
  back. I always imagine her like a cat, just like the way that
• 48:36
  cat ears, just like flatten. It's like, oh, no, I
• 48:39
  have unleashed hell on earth. Well, because yeah, I mean, they're
• 48:44
  cats, right, literally, literally they are. They are the best.
• 48:47
  They are the best of all things cats and books put together, and trees.
• 48:52
  I wouldn't be you know, I wouldn't be shocked if Jordan had given
• 48:57
  them six fingers. Oh my god, can you even imagine six fingers and
• 49:00
  six toes. Oh my god, that would be have been so cool,
• 49:05
  to match the cats in the two Rivers. Yeah, and then they nose
• 49:10
  kiss, and it almost goes a little too far. Let's he's like kissing
• 49:15
  her nose and barely at the presence of mind not to finger her ear tofted
• 49:22
  ears. Fingering the ear is like, Jordan, you did not need to
• 49:25
  pick those words. No, that's that's a little Robert Jordan likes the word
• 49:31
  fingering and fingered way. And you notice how he fingers her ear. She
• 49:37
  tugs the tufts on his ear, so it's it's not he doesn't she doesn't
• 49:43
  finger his ear. She tugs it. I think we know what we're talking
• 49:51
  about here, and it's not ears. No, it's no more ears than
• 49:53
  it is about eyes, Robert. But it is very cute, you know,
• 50:01
  just the teenagers making out in the corner at the dance and just like
• 50:06
  their clothes are coming off like it's just like just like what are you stop
• 50:10
  it? Yeah, yeah it's but you know, it's a very long delayed
• 50:15
  contact. They have been having this unrequdded like chase scenario for their entire relationship
• 50:21
  basically, So this is this is a very sweetly anticipated moment, the ultimate
• 50:25
  long distance relationship. Yes, yes, yes, I love the tufted ears
• 50:31
  picture, the links with tufted ears picture that has been put in chat.
• 50:35
  That is a very good expression of tufted ears on a cat. There you
• 50:39
  go, toughted ears. That is a major danger kitty. But it is
• 50:44
  the correct ears. So they're talking about leaving to go back to the steading
• 50:47
  and which is her goal was, which is basically to argue about the book
• 50:52
  of Translation. I think we've talked about that. We haven't talked about the
• 50:55
  part where loyal jerk direct for sure you did this to himself. He literally
• 51:07
  does oh, wait if they can't do that, not now loyals quote,
• 51:20
  oh thanks, thanks for that laugh. That was sorry, not safe for
• 51:24
  work. Context putting that right after he's kissing his wife is just a little
• 51:36
  too on the nose. And I do mean that in this context. M
• 51:39
  h good God and so but okay, then let me talk a little bit
• 52:01
  about his mother's argument. Basically, we must leave this world eventually so we
• 52:07
  can come to it and when the world turns right, this idea that eventually
• 52:09
  the book of translation must be open so that they can come back, because
• 52:14
  coming back is an important event apparently, even though we have no history on
• 52:17
  them coming back or them leaving. It seems to be the same logic that
• 52:22
  Harod Fell uses to say that at one to say that at some point the
• 52:28
  bore will be not just patched but repaired. Right. It's the same logic
• 52:32
  if I get in order to be broken, it must be whole at some
• 52:37
  point, which means it will become whole again. Somehow, it seems like
• 52:40
  they're using the same logic. Well, we aren't from here, which means
• 52:45
  we came here, which means we have to be not here in order to
• 52:49
  come here. And I feel like that's a really weak argument to be running
• 52:54
  away from Ragnarok, right right, and I later we'll talk about his argument
• 53:01
  too, or he's like nowhere safe. Basically, is this a document?
• 53:05
  Yeah, her her argument is pretty unsound, but it is a reasonable place
• 53:09
  to start the discussion. And remember she doesn't believe her argument, right she
• 53:15
  thinks they should stay. She is basically playing a literal devil's advocate and saying,
• 53:21
  listen, somebody's got to argue the other side. If we're gonna stay,
• 53:24
  if we're literally gonna stay and fight the last battle, we need to
• 53:29
  have the best argument for leaving on the other side. You know, Handling
• 53:35
  the opposition to the stance you want is an interesting stance to take. Like,
• 53:40
  I know that I want the other thing, so I need to control
• 53:43
  the narrative that's going against the one that I want to win. That's a
• 53:49
  level of forty chest that feels very o gear, right, and that's why
• 53:52
  those stumps take forever. I don't think I could do that, but it
• 53:55
  feels. Yes, this feels very much like wyogear to live so long.
• 54:01
  But yeah, that is that is something I don't know if that's maybe a
• 54:05
  bit of a Sanderson retcon because that's like not in this book. That's later
• 54:10
  once they make the decision to stay. I think, or is it or
• 54:15
  is it in this book? It's in this book that he spends his first
• 54:17
  idea and his mother says, that's not bad. That happens in this chapter.
• 54:22
  Yeah, Mastrid, Like, so, I I don't think that you
• 54:27
  are. I don't remember if she has her mind changed or she always wanted
• 54:31
  to stay, But I think that that's entirely possible given my lack of remembering.
• 54:37
  Because here, like you know, obviously, older Haman thinks that like
• 54:40
  she wants to go, because he says, you know, she may even
• 54:45
  get her decision in months, as she says, because she is representing the
• 54:49
  side of fear and Ogira not that different from humans, Fear is going to
• 54:53
  be their strongest motivation, right, because they're people too, Yep. And
• 55:00
  so then we have this sort of thing where they talk about how he's a
• 55:02
  good writer but not very good at speaking in front of people, and we
• 55:06
  know, like, okay, that might have been the child's loyal but he's
• 55:08
  gone through a few things since then, and he's probably going to be a
• 55:13
  lot better at speaking in front of people. I don't think that's He also
• 55:16
  has the self reflection that, in truth he had to admit that sometimes he
• 55:22
  rambled with only a few listeners. Yeah, he tended to forget what he
• 55:25
  intended to say and go off on tangents. And it's like, but we
• 55:29
  love tangents. Loyal tangents are like what we do. Yes, we love
• 55:32
  your tangents, Robert Jordan, I mean loyal because again, this is very
• 55:37
  much author insert of the more people were listening, the more like the tangents.
• 55:42
  And like, there's a reason why we call all of our in between
• 55:45
  episodes tangents of whatever, right, because like there are a lot of tangents.
• 55:51
  Yeah, it just I feel very representive. And I saw the word
• 55:52
  tangents here. I'm like, yeah, that's right. We name every in
• 55:54
  between episode tangents. That's right. Honestly, if we ever like start another
• 56:00
  podcast, we should just call it, you know, like tangents and we
• 56:07
  can talk about whatever we wanted on that podcast. And just like until we
• 56:10
  found our feeding feeding footing, sure that that already exists, that has to
• 56:15
  already exist. There has to be so many podcasts called tangents out there.
• 56:21
  I'm just sure of it anyway. So, yeah, Loyle gets presented with
• 56:24
  the question of well, what would you say, and he's like, ah,
• 56:29
  there's people looking at me. I'm going to go look out the window,
• 56:30
  which is relatable. Yeah, And so he's speaking looking at the window
• 56:37
  in order to like fool his brain into thinking he's just talking to nobody.
• 56:42
  Yeah. Right, I get very distracted by looking at whoever I'm talking to
• 56:45
  on zoom, so I tend to not look at them while I'm talking,
• 56:49
  so that way I can attempt to get to the point that I was trying
• 56:51
  to make in the first place. And then we get this just really excellent
• 56:54
  argument from him, basically saying the shadow must be fought when it is the
• 57:00
  shadow that must be fought, our axes have always grown long handles. Perhaps
• 57:05
  in a year or five or ten we will open the book of Translation.
• 57:07
  But if we do it now, we cannot run away with any real hope
• 57:10
  of safety. Tarman Guidan is coming, and all that hangs the fate of
• 57:14
  not only this world, but of any world we might flee to. When
• 57:17
  fire threatens the trees. We do not run away and hope the flames will
• 57:21
  not follow us. We fight now. The shadow is coming like wildfire,
• 57:24
  and we dare not run from it standing ovation correct response, right, And
• 57:30
  also the timing of the shadow is coming and we dare not flare for it.
• 57:35
  Something was moving among the trees quite literally, the shadow is coming in
• 57:43
  a big wall, and no, you better fight it. Yeah, no,
• 57:45
  it's that sort of speech leads directly into the attack, right. And
• 57:52
  just before that speech, he has this thought that I highlighted about he was
• 57:57
  not brave, that he had learned about bravery from watching humans, watching them
• 58:00
  hang on no matter how strong the windscrew fight when they had no hope,
• 58:05
  fight and win because they fought with desperate courage. And then it immediately rolls
• 58:09
  into him going, you know, hand to hand with a wall of trolis,
• 58:14
  with his new wife behind him and his teacher at his side and his
• 58:17
  mother in the house. It's just like, yeah, loyal, you're not
• 58:21
  brave at all. You and Ninive can go sit in the cowards corner,
• 58:24
  yeah with Matt right, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Well all of
• 58:30
  you who have absolutely run away from all the pain and suffering every single time
• 58:35
  you've seen it and never stood up to the bullies. Yeah, no,
• 58:38
  it's it's it's clear he models it, but at the same time, sometimes
• 58:44
  you have to see, you know, you can learn something from somebody who
• 58:49
  learned it by watching you m because you do it instinct. And we see
• 58:53
  that with channeling right where you know, sometimes some of our characters have done
• 59:00
  something, channeled something they don't remember it, but someone else saw them,
• 59:04
  learned how to do it, and later taught them the weave that they themselves
• 59:07
  came up with. Gwenna and Aline have that experience. Yeah, and so
• 59:12
  yeah, I think you know you're seeing something here. Similar with courage right
• 59:15
  where Loyal models the courage to the people around him. They step up and
• 59:19
  act encourage and he goes, oh that okay, you know, and like
• 59:22
  and then and then learns what he does extinct instinctively, right right, especially
• 59:30
  because for him, things that are not extremely dangerous would be for humans,
• 59:34
  So he can step up and do things that are less dangerous to him,
• 59:37
  and everyone's like, wow, he's so brave. We're gonna you know,
• 59:39
  do that too, and it's like, but he literally was risking less.
• 59:44
  But the feedback loop works anyway, because he's twice as tall and twice as
• 59:46
  heavy, right, Like, it's just like he's a sturdier person, so
• 59:51
  he can like move things and run distances. And there does seem to be
• 59:57
  some implication that O Gear's skin is also very tough, right like tree bark.
• 1:00:01
  Yeah. Yeah, it seems almost like they toughen up in response to
• 1:00:05
  going into war mode. Right, yeah, like there's some sort of or
• 1:00:08
  maybe they are usually singing, so maybe there's some magic sing like like they
• 1:00:15
  grow, like there's some sort of the ability to grow things when they sing,
• 1:00:20
  so maybe they grow some sort of armor or make their skin tougher when
• 1:00:23
  they're they're in battle with the singing. I like that there's a war song
• 1:00:27
  that gives them a plus two to their to their to their armor class,
• 1:00:36
  the true benefit of having bards, I mean bardic barbarians. That's basically what
• 1:00:40
  they are. They go into a rain song, start singing at the same
• 1:00:46
  time. I imagine the song is just like definitely do you know the song
• 1:00:57
  I need? O You're doing just like head hanging and like that their heads
• 1:01:00
  are smashing into troughs and just like yeah, right, yeah, right when
• 1:01:06
  the mosh pit goes deadly all right, so loyal spots that there are trolics
• 1:01:12
  in the woods and then they're like, all right, let's grab our weapons
• 1:01:17
  that were chekhofs gunning in this room. Let's lay our ears back, and
• 1:01:22
  let's start yelling this oh gear battle cry. And it's just it's a fantastic
• 1:01:29
  final few paragraphs of this pov uh huh oxes and clear the field trollis coming,
• 1:01:37
  Like, I just love the way they yell at the way again Kramer
• 1:01:40
  great, does a great job with that, so so good good. But
• 1:01:45
  yeah, just the excitement and the panic and the just like, oh my
• 1:01:49
  god, there this is a crazy army approaching. Yeah, and all four
• 1:01:53
  of them grab weapons, right, there's weapons there for four, so you
• 1:01:57
  know, the men take the axes, the women take the pruning shears,
• 1:02:00
  and Eris gives us everyone's favorite romantic line that Robert Jordan has ever written.
• 1:02:05
  If you get yourself killed, I will kill you. Yeah. I will
• 1:02:07
  be very angry. It will be so angry. It's so so o gear.
• 1:02:10
  But it's like women, right, this is this is artist's characterization of
• 1:02:14
  women. That and relationships. That's just Ninive has said it. Yeah,
• 1:02:19
  men has said it. I believe Elane has said it. Like it is.
• 1:02:22
  It is iterated and iterated and iterated, and I don't hate it.
• 1:02:24
  I think it's cute. It's really every time, I'm like, you know
• 1:02:28
  what, I'll let it pass, even if it is an archaism. It's
• 1:02:30
  very cute. But I've heard other people say it too, you know,
• 1:02:32
  if you get if you go like, yeah, you know, drive reck
• 1:02:36
  I think my mom like said, if you go drive recklessly and you know,
• 1:02:38
  or drive drunk and dial, I'll kill you, you know, stuff
• 1:02:42
  like that. Like I don't know, just I feel like that's something that
• 1:02:45
  people in real life say. I use it for sure. You know,
• 1:02:47
  I threatened violence in disproportionate response to various events all the time. Like it's
• 1:02:53
  it's very much. But I think I picked it U from a wheel of
• 1:02:55
  time, so you know, right, that's I don't I never know.
• 1:03:00
  I never know. I just assume I get it from the wheel of time.
• 1:03:02
  I'm like, isn't this from the wheel of time? People like,
• 1:03:05
  no, I think it's the Jesus is saying. It's very eighties girls coded
• 1:03:09
  it's the Fortnite phenomenon, right, Fortnite. I don't know how much you
• 1:03:14
  know about Fortnite, that it exists pretty much, I know, just slightly
• 1:03:17
  more. But I know that it borrows from all these other I know it
• 1:03:21
  exists mostly because like Sanderson put fucking Kelsey or one of his characters in it
• 1:03:24
  from Miss barn right, like, so it's a book connection. So basically,
• 1:03:28
  they basically take skins of every character they can and put it in their
• 1:03:30
  game and they'll fight right like, and they'll do funny dances and stuff like
• 1:03:35
  that. And so there's a bunch of kids who grew up playing Fortnite not
• 1:03:37
  realizing the references that all these characters come from. So the joke is,
• 1:03:43
  oh, isn't that character from Fortnite? And it's like, no, none
• 1:03:45
  of the characters are from they're from something else. And so for me,
• 1:03:50
  it's very similar with Wheel of Time, like, oh, isn't that isn't
• 1:03:52
  that troupe from Wheel of Time? And it's like, no, Wheel Time
• 1:03:53
  has borrowed from so many genres that nothing's from the Wheel of Time. It's
• 1:03:58
  all got a similar origin. Yeah, yeah, you know, it's all
• 1:04:03
  borrowed from Greek mythology and Roman mythology and modern stories and yeah, there's just
• 1:04:11
  so much in there that's in the Bible and yeah, and the youthology,
• 1:04:15
  right, yeah, Norse mythology, Hindu mythology, yeah, some Myitic mythology,
• 1:04:20
  and then all our stories since all our stories are then based on those
• 1:04:24
  mythologies in some way or another, right, Like all of our stories are
• 1:04:29
  in some way related to the Wheel of Time, and there's so much of
• 1:04:30
  our are the rest of our And there's so much of Marvel cinematic universe in
• 1:04:35
  the Wheel of Time, which is just crazy, but it's there. I
• 1:04:39
  mean, it's less Marvel cinematic universe and more the Norse mythology that the MCU
• 1:04:43
  is pillaging. But yeah, exactly right, but the Wheel of Time has
• 1:04:47
  also pillage, right, they're pillaging from the same sources, and that they're
• 1:04:50
  all pillaging also from Tolkien who pillaged from that, yes, so you know
• 1:04:56
  exactly yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like how they've done genetics studies now
• 1:05:00
  that have proven that the way that neanderthal DNA got part of how neanderthal DNA
• 1:05:06
  got back into modern Homo sapiens was by people going down through humans, going
• 1:05:15
  back down across from Spain to North Africa and going back down into Africa.
• 1:05:19
  So there actually is Neanderthal DNA in the modern human genome. Of Africans,
• 1:05:25
  but it's not from the It's not in the same way as with Europeans,
• 1:05:29
  where like they went in and like just interbred with some of those people,
• 1:05:32
  interbred with them and then went on to travel to back into Africa and so
• 1:05:39
  like it's just genetics is very very wonky. And uh so is this mister
• 1:05:45
  even more pliable than genes? Yeah? And super Sky like tells an interesting
• 1:05:50
  stories like where does the first is asking interesting question? Where did the first
• 1:05:54
  stories come from? And it's really like you have this tradition of verbal storytelling
• 1:05:59
  and how much of that is like what is the point of real time?
• 1:06:02
  It's talk about how myths and rumors spread and change and become interesting embellished stories,
• 1:06:10
  and that our first I'm guessing our first myths and mythologies, right,
• 1:06:14
  were a legitimate story where you have four or five interesting stories that have been
• 1:06:19
  embellished and mixed together to become these mythologies that people then built upon and became
• 1:06:25
  part of cultures. Right, and then when they started getting written down,
• 1:06:28
  that's how we got our mythologies and everything else is based on, right,
• 1:06:31
  I mean, even like the Homeric myths, like it's well established that like
• 1:06:35
  those were in every evolving, living oral tradition and Homer is just the name
• 1:06:42
  that they attached to the version that they wrote down, right like, but
• 1:06:45
  it was a living oral tradition for centuries before that. And it's much like
• 1:06:49
  the Hindu religion is now, like people are constantly telling the mythologies and stories
• 1:06:55
  and adding their own embellishments because it's just this giant pantheon and it's a breathing
• 1:07:00
  religion. People are living it out. And yeah, one assumes that people
• 1:07:05
  have always been like this, right before we got the weird Christianity thing,
• 1:07:11
  like messing with all of our brains, like we've always been doing this,
• 1:07:15
  so yeah, like trying to wind that clock back and be like where did
• 1:07:17
  it start? When did it start? Is there an er story or an
• 1:07:21
  er muse for all of this? Like is it all personifications of nature?
• 1:07:26
  Is it all myths about where we came from? Is it all cosmology?
• 1:07:30
  Like it's gossip, It's all gossip, Like that's where these stories. It's
• 1:07:33
  just gossip that evolved into stories involved into bragging and storytelling, right, like
• 1:07:40
  we love, we love to tell stories about people and then you know,
• 1:07:44
  well I know that story is not actually about my neighbor Bob. He couldn't
• 1:07:46
  have actually flown to the sun. So I'll make up Bob Bearra and call
• 1:07:50
  it a god, you know, And you know, like it's just like
• 1:07:56
  it's really really easy to see how gossip and stories become myths and legends.
• 1:08:01
  And I can't read the Wheal of Time without being like, that's what the
• 1:08:04
  intro paragraph is fucking saying, right to say nothing of the number of times
• 1:08:09
  that people have gotten high as balls and figured that the gods were talking to
• 1:08:12
  them, because you know, well, the dead happens, or you're suffering
• 1:08:17
  famine or heat stroke or any number of other things that put you into an
• 1:08:20
  altered state. And I do feel like that also. It all comes back
• 1:08:24
  around too when you talk about what was Robert Jordan's upbringing, well, he
• 1:08:28
  talks about how his family was a family of story verbal storytellers. They sat
• 1:08:33
  around on porches and made up stories and told stories and mixed stories together and
• 1:08:40
  tried to one up each other and created these universes. And it was all
• 1:08:44
  this verbal storytelling that, to me is a very traditional way of entertaining yourselves
• 1:08:47
  and in the real time comes directly from that verbal storytelling that Jordan was doing
• 1:08:53
  with his family. Absolutely, and it is one of my apocalypse plans is
• 1:08:58
  I will be able to tell the story of the wheale of time to keep
• 1:09:00
  us entertained during the long winters. And it will be how I earn my
• 1:09:03
  keep in the klan. I mean, if you've ever read Fahrenheit four fifty
• 1:09:08
  one, oh yeah, you a spoiler for the book. Just in case
• 1:09:15
  you haven't read Fahrenheit four fifty one. It's all about the fact that he
• 1:09:19
  memorizes a book and takes it with him into the wilderness, and he becomes
• 1:09:24
  a physical embodiment of that book, and so that when books become legal again,
• 1:09:29
  he can you either pass it on or write it down, and so
• 1:09:33
  that it enters back into the bublic consciousness and that book is lost, right,
• 1:09:38
  And so of course what does everyone do as soon as they finish that
• 1:09:41
  as they go what book would I memorize in the apocalypse? If I were
• 1:09:45
  in Fahrenheit four fifty one, if I had to save it? And of
• 1:09:47
  course of course it was real time for me. Yeah, And I'm like,
• 1:09:51
  I mean, in fifteen books is a lot. But I've listened to
• 1:09:54
  the audiobooks a lot of times, like I got most of it. I
• 1:09:58
  feel like we could reconstruct him awful lot of it. It might have to
• 1:10:00
  like come in pieces, and there might be chunks that are missing, right,
• 1:10:04
  there might be some boring stuff in Crossroads Yeah, and then yeah anyway,
• 1:10:14
  but yeah, so much of the quotes I bet we could pull out
• 1:10:16
  get right, so POV switch before the POV switch happens, I feel like
• 1:10:23
  this is a good time to talk about who is sending the trollics? Okay,
• 1:10:29
  where have they come from? Enlightened me, I'm asked, do you
• 1:10:33
  have any idea? No? Okay, I like because plot reasons. I'm
• 1:10:41
  a bad reader, I'm a hack and a fraud. You didn't even ask
• 1:10:45
  why these trollacs were showing up, or who sent them, or mostly I
• 1:10:49
  assumed you were going to tell me, Oh, what do we pay you
• 1:10:55
  for it? So what? What? Why? Exactly? Okay? So
• 1:11:03
  an order was issued by Samuel or someone who looked like him, who was
• 1:11:09
  also marked as chosen right, So this is this is something revealed later in
• 1:11:15
  at the Gardens in that chapter when the fourth second having a meeting, So
• 1:11:20
  we find out the person who gave this order and sent all these trollocks and
• 1:11:24
  murdraw through the ways to get teer had the mark of the Chosen, So
• 1:11:30
  that narrows it down. And it's obviously not Samuel, because he's fucking toast,
• 1:11:32
  right, He's dead as doornails, right, He's he's been dead for
• 1:11:35
  quite some time. So it's someone not Samuel who's to have the Mark of
• 1:11:40
  the Chosen, which gives a fairly narrow cluster of people. And the most
• 1:11:45
  widely popular theory seems to be that it's someone who was very frustrated they didn't
• 1:11:50
  know where Rand was in the previous chapter. So if you go back in
• 1:11:55
  the previous chapter, Logan shows up and goes, man, Tym was really
• 1:11:58
  pissed off. I wouldn't tell where you were. He's rying really, really
• 1:12:01
  hard to find out where you are. Also, he had just sent Ashamon,
• 1:12:06
  right, Really, that's path of Daggers is just you know, a
• 1:12:11
  couple of weeks ago, he had just sent Ashaman to kill Rand, right,
• 1:12:14
  Tayim is trying to kill Rand. Tim is looking for Rand to kill
• 1:12:17
  him right like, and Tayim has most likely been elevated to Forsaken. At
• 1:12:23
  this point in the story. I was totally thinking that Tayim made the most
• 1:12:26
  sense to because Samel is an empty slot to fill, and Tayim has not
• 1:12:33
  been revealed as chosen yet. So going under the guise of a forsaken who
• 1:12:38
  can't show up and blow your alibi is a great way to get a nefarious
• 1:12:43
  shit done while still holding that reveal in reserve. And also it's very time
• 1:12:47
  to just throw an army of like. Oh, I have access to an
• 1:12:50
  army of trulus, I'm going to use them against a bunch of channelers,
• 1:12:55
  right and like. And I think the point that if Logan hadn't shown up
• 1:13:00
  in time, he may have succeeded, right because he wasn't expecting Logan to
• 1:13:03
  be there, No, because Logane was claiming not to know where he was.
• 1:13:10
  Yeah, it's a very lucky break for Rand and Logan both that uh,
• 1:13:15
  this one the way it did. So, But I really do,
• 1:13:17
  I do think Tayim is the one who sent this group. And I'm willing
• 1:13:21
  to entertain other theories, but because I don't think there's a lot of direct
• 1:13:26
  evidence, it's all incidental. Yeah, I don't really have any other candidates.
• 1:13:30
  I thought Tayim was a really solid bet just casually off the cuff.
• 1:13:33
  I guess it could have been demon dread there's yeah, like maybe, but
• 1:13:39
  I feel like Tayim is the best candidate because none of the others would think
• 1:13:44
  to debase themselves by pretending to be Samel the short haired, short ridiculous person.
• 1:13:48
  So but Taim trying to prove himself worthy of this newly bestowed title.
• 1:13:56
  Could you know, can you act in a chosen's place, to a chosen
• 1:14:00
  scale and make a believable chosen act of destruction? Maybe then I'll allow you
• 1:14:03
  to reveal your new rank. And I don't believe it's either the two mind
• 1:14:08
  trapped women because they couldn't work without like the Yeah. So, like the
• 1:14:14
  number of candidates is very small, yeah, And I also feel like merger
• 1:14:17
  all can tell the difference between Sidar and Siding, so it would be very
• 1:14:21
  hard to pass yourself off as the wrong gendered one. Like they'd be like,
• 1:14:27
  why are you channeling Sidar if you're Sawmile? That makes no sense,
• 1:14:30
  right, So it seems like it should be one of the men anyway to
• 1:14:31
  begin with, right, And it's not. And I don't think got the
• 1:14:35
  time or the brain to do that. No, No, she does,
• 1:14:42
  she's she's hanging out with Grendall, so nothing that Grendall does she's so yeah,
• 1:14:46
  I I time seems like the most likely candidate by far, and Demondrad
• 1:14:53
  is a certain possibility. But just because we never fucking find out what Demandrad's
• 1:14:57
  doing this whole time, I assume right now he's all, you know,
• 1:15:00
  fighting a dragon. Yeah, he's having his River of Souls moments so he
• 1:15:02
  can be the dragon slayer, right. Yeah, so he's doing River of
• 1:15:05
  Souls right now, so we have to assume he's not involved in much that's
• 1:15:10
  going on except for like the meetings. Yeah, agreed, agreed, So
• 1:15:27
  I will take care of Tyr Logan while you. Abruptly, Ran wrinkled his
• 1:15:30
  nose. It was not that he actually smelled a rotting midden heap suddenly,
• 1:15:33
  but he felt as if he did, and the feeling was getting stronger.
• 1:15:38
  Shadows upon god, Swain said, quietly, putting down her embroidery and rising
• 1:15:43
  his skin, tingled as she embraced the source. Or maybe it was Olivia
• 1:15:46
  walking briskly towards the window after the Green Sister min stood, drawing a pair
• 1:15:51
  of throwing knives from her coat, sleeves. At the same instant. Through
• 1:15:56
  the thick walls, he faintly heard the O gear shouting. There was no
• 1:16:00
  mistaking those deep drum like voices. Drawlks coming up oxes and clear the field.
• 1:16:06
  I love that transition. It's a really good it's a it's right at
• 1:16:11
  the same moment. But because we're switching characters, it's nice to have that
• 1:16:15
  yelling time sync the two to be No, we are literally the camera is
• 1:16:18
  just flipping from one to the other in the same moment. I enjoy it
• 1:16:21
  a lot, and it really sets you up to feel the excitement of the
• 1:16:27
  second half of this chapter. Totally totally and todd Swayne obviously sensing chattispawn,
• 1:16:32
  probably because they were tyron re all no rad smells filth. So it's just
• 1:16:38
  the channeling sensitivity. Okay, it's just all the channelers are sensing it,
• 1:16:44
  and all the worders too. Yeah, they all come into rage at the
• 1:16:46
  same time. Right, it's just a wall of trollocks walking forward, so
• 1:16:50
  all of the channelers pinged at the same moment. Thousands of trallucks, thirty
• 1:16:58
  or forty more drawl. Yeah, that rand can see on this side of
• 1:17:01
  the house. So He's like, if this is that on every side,
• 1:17:05
  that's a lot that Ram can see, right, So my guess would be
• 1:17:10
  an even hundred. And they had to have gotten there through the ways,
• 1:17:14
  which I'm guessing probably. You know, for a while, the ways were
• 1:17:18
  pretty hard for the Shadows band to get through in numbers quickly because of the
• 1:17:24
  way shatter not Shutter are on. No Mashadar, thank you, Machin sin
• 1:17:29
  uh no, God damnit Machine Shin, thank you all right, from the
• 1:17:34
  way this, Jordan, do not make this easy sometimes from the way Machine
• 1:17:38
  Shin has reacted in the ways has changed, right, because now it's kind
• 1:17:43
  of chasing Rand. But then I'm wondering, why wouldn't have been in at
• 1:17:45
  the way gate closest to Rand. Yeah, I don't know what's going on
• 1:17:48
  there. It feels like maybe they're just pouring trollicks into the numbers game and
• 1:17:55
  hoping that matching Chin can't eat them all. Maybe, uh yeah, but
• 1:18:00
  I mean this is you think this would be severely punished, right because they're
• 1:18:03
  trying to build these trollocks and murder all up for the last battle. Now
• 1:18:06
  is not the time to waste a bunch of them? Yeah, yeah,
• 1:18:12
  that seems bad. Maybe they just figured out a safe passage somehow, or
• 1:18:16
  machinchin is off doing something else because it's been infected with FAIN at this point,
• 1:18:24
  right, So it's it's confusing. Oh news flash, Erath's eyes are
• 1:18:29
  green, because there is now a picture of silver bell tree seed pods in
• 1:18:32
  Chat that is very much green. That is not silver. I see no
• 1:18:38
  silver and no bells. These are kind of bell shape, but they're not
• 1:18:41
  silver. I bet they're silver when they're young, Like the flowers are actually
• 1:18:45
  silver. The flowers are silver, or maybe when the pods are very small,
• 1:18:49
  they like don't have much color to them because a lot of things go
• 1:18:51
  from white to green to red. It's the flower seed pods. It looks
• 1:18:57
  like the flowers are white. Oh yeah, now there's a picture of the
• 1:18:59
  flower, and yes, very like white pink. I could totally see the
• 1:19:01
  original beginning of the steed being very silvery well loyal, you're gonna need to
• 1:19:06
  be more specific, No, he said, a ripe silver bell seed pod.
• 1:19:09
  So I guess we're gonna have to go with green. She's got green
• 1:19:12
  eyes because she's a tree girl. See when I asked the question, it
• 1:19:15
  wasn't as dumb as I thought it was, was it? When I you
• 1:19:17
  said silver and I was like, Oh, I guess that's obvious because silver
• 1:19:19
  is in the name. No, this is this is me again being like,
• 1:19:23
  well, it's if the obvious things are supposed to be obvious that I
• 1:19:26
  should do the obvious thing. No, this was the wrong time to do
• 1:19:28
  the obvious thing. This is why I'm autistic, so I know I'm on
• 1:19:30
  testing. Never do the right thing. I always picked the wrong thing every
• 1:19:34
  goddamn time. Why would the silver things be silver? I don't understand.
• 1:19:42
  Are words supposed to mean things or not? Only if you want to follow
• 1:19:45
  the rules? Rule follower like constitutionally incapable of not following the rules. It's
• 1:19:53
  like so bad it gets me in trouble too. Yeah, that's something I've
• 1:19:58
  noticed, is U. I have a hard time knowing which rules are supposed
• 1:20:01
  to be broken. Exactly how am I supposed to know? Whenever I just
• 1:20:05
  break a rule? No, not that one. That wasn't one of the
• 1:20:09
  ones that was breakable. You should have known better. But then if I
• 1:20:11
  like it rigorously adhered to a rule, turns it that was the one rule
• 1:20:15
  that everyone knows to break automatically. Speeding is my favorite example of that,
• 1:20:20
  because I got so many speeding tickets that I've had to slow down to drive
• 1:20:24
  the speed limit. But now everybody's angry at me, and it's like,
• 1:20:27
  well, I can't how do I not I'm breaking the rule. Either you're
• 1:20:30
  mad at me or I'm getting speeding tickets. I don't know how to.
• 1:20:32
  You have to know to break the speed limit by five miles per hour exactly,
• 1:20:36
  but not in these certain areas. Yeah, and not in these certain
• 1:20:40
  zones at these certain times, but at other times five miles an hour isn't
• 1:20:44
  enough, right, You need to break it by ten or fifteen in order
• 1:20:45
  to keep or else people are going to be mad at you. It's great,
• 1:20:50
  it's great. It's great. And apparently how nice your car is.
• 1:20:55
  Also, you can drive faster. It's your car. That's the other thing
• 1:20:58
  I've observed. Yeah, you're allowed to supposed to. No, I mean
• 1:21:00
  everywhere in our justice system is paid to play. But no more is it
• 1:21:03
  more obvious than in car speeding feed type thing. It is a pay to
• 1:21:10
  play system and speeding tickets. What it is scale to your income. People
• 1:21:15
  would drive, very rich people would drive very differently. Two hundred dollars for
• 1:21:17
  someone who makes you know, minimum wage is a lot of money. Two
• 1:21:21
  hundred dollars to someone who is a millionaire is nothing. Yeah. I there
• 1:21:27
  are people in my family who have gleefully taken advantage of that fact, and
• 1:21:31
  it is frustrating for the people in my family who are not millionaires to look
• 1:21:36
  at that and be like, you're an asshole. That's just what you're doing.
• 1:21:41
  I remember, I think Steve Jobs was still well known for like parking
• 1:21:45
  in handicapped spots and being like, I just pay the ticket. It's one
• 1:21:47
  yeah, yeah, No, it should be a percentage of your income,
• 1:21:53
  you know, scaled to how much your worth is. So that way everyone
• 1:21:57
  feels the same amount of gut sinking when they see those super lights come on.
• 1:22:00
  Yeah, thank you, Fuji Finland. Finland knows what the fuck is
• 1:22:03
  up? Finland does that, thank you? Well, yeah, of course
• 1:22:08
  it would be too fair for America, but yeah, Finland knows what the
• 1:22:12
  fuck is up. As per usual, Scandinavia has a much better idea of
• 1:22:15
  what to do. So back to the battle. They come running in and
• 1:22:20
  we immedially immediately get lightning, and you know, fountains of flames very much.
• 1:22:27
  It seems yeah, very do my as wells right like this is.
• 1:22:30
  But I think what we're realizing is that fountains of flames and lightning are not
• 1:22:36
  the most energy efficient way to kill traunics. They're really not. That's a
• 1:22:42
  lot of energy, and a lightning strike might kill one to five traulics around
• 1:22:47
  it. Like it's not a big radius. It's very medieval, just like
• 1:22:51
  lighting pots of oil on fire and then sling shotting them into the army.
• 1:22:56
  Like it's bad, but it's a lot of work for you. And I
• 1:23:00
  think what makes this chapter so cool is that it's the first time where we
• 1:23:06
  see these characters go from I'm going to throw flames at you and power at
• 1:23:14
  you to I'm going to create really interesting ways to just kill you and dispose
• 1:23:20
  of your body while I'm at it. I fucking love the death gates so
• 1:23:25
  much. Honestly, what I love more is the what are the columns?
• 1:23:31
  The blossoms of fire? I think those are the coolest, Like deathgates are
• 1:23:35
  cool, yes, but I think blossoms of fire are actually a much more
• 1:23:41
  interesting and effective use of the one power. Yeah, Robert Jordan really got
• 1:23:45
  creative with this one and was like, let me pull out all my Age
• 1:23:47
  of Legends style stops and just give you a fantastic looking battle. So let's
• 1:23:54
  talk about the weaves. We can go back to some of the other stuff,
• 1:23:56
  but let's talk about the weaves that he uses. Right, So,
• 1:24:00
  Blossoms of Fire. They're vertical red shafts ten feet tall and thinner than your
• 1:24:05
  forearm. So you know, I don't know that. It's like basically like
• 1:24:10
  a lamp pole or like a stop stop sign pole, righteah, kind of
• 1:24:15
  about that, like the that pole. It's about that height, about that
• 1:24:17
  big around, right, yeah, And they do a shrill wine and then
• 1:24:23
  each red red shaft expanded in a heartbeat to a disc of flame thirty feet
• 1:24:29
  across. I would assume about at you know, neck heighte right, because
• 1:24:33
  heads end up pin wheeling through the air. And this idea that you take
• 1:24:39
  something long and tall and squish it and like basically build a power and squish
• 1:24:45
  it down, and that squishing creates a flat disc, and that disc then
• 1:24:51
  basically slices off everybody's heads. And what you're doing is creating this vertical shaft
• 1:24:56
  that you can then squish and you're creating this like tension that you can then
• 1:25:00
  essentially release in a flash and an explosion. Yeah. Oh that's very cool.
• 1:25:06
  I did not really mentally envision that. I thought like the whole column
• 1:25:11
  was expanding. I didn't get that the verticality was vanishing and it was pancaking
• 1:25:15
  itself. That makes so much more sense. Oh, I really like that.
• 1:25:20
  That looks very cool in my mind's eye. Yeah, that it's trading
• 1:25:24
  this vertical basically shrinking. You know, you're doing this and it blossoms.
• 1:25:29
  Yeah, it's a blossom, right. It probably starts to expand as the
• 1:25:31
  thing is going down into it, So seen from above, it looks like
• 1:25:34
  really cool, like darker in the middle and expanding on the Yeah, yeah,
• 1:25:39
  yeah it's Yeah. You have the circular disc with a with a shaft
• 1:25:42
  sticking out the center of it. It probably looks like a little flower,
• 1:25:45
  Yeah, a little big flower. But yeah, I love ah. I'm
• 1:25:48
  glad to have that mental picture up. That looks very cool. And the
• 1:25:51
  wine, the shrill wine sound it makes me think of like one like airplane
• 1:25:58
  aerial bombing like that, or even real war too, like there's just this,
• 1:26:01
  oh the whistle like that scary like whistle sound. I don't know.
• 1:26:06
  I just I want to think that it's something like that where it's like it
• 1:26:10
  just stirs something deep in your psyche where you're like, that's wrong, that's
• 1:26:13
  deeply wrong, that should not be happening. That's a sound of bad things
• 1:26:16
  coming. I feel like in Hollywood you hear a lot with the Future Grenades
• 1:26:21
  where they throw it and you hear go, yeah, totally, you know,
• 1:26:24
  and then you goes because they want to give you that clue that it's
• 1:26:27
  winding up to explode. That I don't think really, but like I do
• 1:26:30
  feel like it's a it's a sound effect. You hear a lot in TV
• 1:26:33
  shows where like, yeah, there's a lot of audio conceits and TV shows
• 1:26:38
  that I have to forgive film in general, TV shows and movies. Oh
• 1:26:43
  okay, so someone is little gen is bringing up a dradle, and I
• 1:26:47
  like the idea that basically what you have is a bunch of fire threads in
• 1:26:53
  a column spinning incredibly fast, and what you're hearing is them literally spinning up
• 1:26:58
  and then something is really least and the centropical force of them spinning essentially flings
• 1:27:02
  them out into a horizontal ring of flame, and it's actually that force that
• 1:27:11
  trill wine is created by the spinning force, and then that spinning force is
• 1:27:14
  what creates the disc that is the flattening. Well, I was also thinking,
• 1:27:17
  as the disk is forming, you've got a pull on either side of
• 1:27:21
  it, so it is kind of like a top really because it's at ten
• 1:27:26
  feet Yeah, totally, the thing is ten feet tall and it the thing
• 1:27:30
  comes out, you know about head height, which is I guess on trollocks
• 1:27:32
  about ten feet tall, so that would be at the top. It wouldn't
• 1:27:38
  be on the other side. Well what if but if they spin, if
• 1:27:42
  it's in the middle right feet tall and is it touching the ground, sure,
• 1:27:46
  but it's going to be five six feet off the ground in the middle,
• 1:27:51
  and that's about where the troll you know, the troll head is above
• 1:27:54
  that. But yeah, I yeah, I definitely like spinning definitely seems logical
• 1:27:59
  to me for that like outward explosion of energy, like the conservation of rotation
• 1:28:02
  kind of thing, like, yeah, exactly. Also think it sounds a
• 1:28:06
  lot like a star going nova the way that like there's a really rapid expansion
• 1:28:12
  and release of energy at a certain point in the nova cycle with stars.
• 1:28:15
  Obviously they shed their shells in all directions, but also they do kind of
• 1:28:19
  have you know, the poles, I mean, neutron stars like to have
• 1:28:25
  the poles poking out of them. The jets. I mean, here's a
• 1:28:30
  little child's toy I'm gonna put a picture of in chat. Let me see
• 1:28:34
  where grab that. This is what kind of reminds me of I don't know
• 1:28:39
  if you ever played with this toys a kid, but it's something where you're
• 1:28:42
  pushing the top and it's got a little spiral and that makes it spin really
• 1:28:44
  fast, and that pushing down on the top. That's how my salad spinner
• 1:28:47
  works. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's this these That's basically what he's
• 1:28:53
  making is salad spinners here, except he's spinning out like blossom like threads of
• 1:28:57
  flame and then exploding heads with it. Yes, yes, I love that
• 1:29:02
  he's salad spinning their heads off. Charlocke's one hundred paces and more away from
• 1:29:08
  the explosions go down and not all of them get up. This is a
• 1:29:11
  much more efficient use of explosive weaves than just like throwing a flaming pot of
• 1:29:16
  oil. This is throwing an actual like grenade grenade, and then there's yeah,
• 1:29:23
  there's a shockwave that goes out right from this. That's the other thing
• 1:29:25
  we haven't talked about is like this thing explodes out and then there's a shockwave
• 1:29:28
  that goes out, and yeah, you end up with a ten foot or
• 1:29:32
  thirty foot disc of flame. But then you also end up with one hundred
• 1:29:36
  foot right because that displacement of air has to go somewhere, right, Like,
• 1:29:43
  you're very rapidly moving that air out of the way, So yeah,
• 1:29:45
  you're gonna have some near speed of sound sort of booms happening. So then
• 1:29:50
  you've got the gateway, right death gates, the gath gates. I've been
• 1:29:59
  screaming decades all that spirit touch which with fire, which is the weave for
• 1:30:04
  a gateway. So he makes a normal gateway, but then he adds touches
• 1:30:09
  of earth. Now, the earth has got to be two things. It's
• 1:30:12
  one, it's got to help it move across the ground somehow, right,
• 1:30:15
  that's what I imagine that does definitely. And then something about them opening and
• 1:30:18
  shutting continuously I think is the earth does that as well. That there's this
• 1:30:23
  like this movement where they're okay, here's what it reminds me of again,
• 1:30:27
  physics talk, right. It reminds me of the way an electromagnetic wave moves
• 1:30:32
  across space, because it's a sine wave in two directions, and so you
• 1:30:39
  have this thing that's fluctuating in and out right opening and closing and traveling forward
• 1:30:45
  in a space. And so I imagine it's almost in a lot of ways,
• 1:30:49
  a very blown up electromagnetic wave that hits them and then like sort of
• 1:30:55
  opening and closing. It's I don't know, just that vision somehow matches up
• 1:31:00
  up with the gateway. You know, it's a sign wave, whatever it
• 1:31:02
  is, the gateway's opening and closing in a sign wave. Yeah, I
• 1:31:08
  like that. I like that. It's like when you see a cool graph
• 1:31:12
  in an odd dimension, number of dimensions compared to how it was meant to
• 1:31:15
  be seen. It's like, oh, that's what that looks like. Stuff
• 1:31:18
  that I could not grasp for the sake of getting through my physics homework.
• 1:31:23
  But I do get, like, you know, explain it to me,
• 1:31:26
  and I've grasped it more over the years seeing cool animations. It's like that's
• 1:31:30
  what they were saying. God damn it. Eight years later now, I
• 1:31:33
  get it now, I can figure it out. Yeah, no, but
• 1:31:39
  I mean, but that's the thing about that kind of education is even if
• 1:31:42
  you don't get it then sometimes it means you can realize it later. And
• 1:31:45
  if you didn't have that foundational education, you would have never figured it out
• 1:31:47
  later. It's very true. Yeah, but I just I love the mechanic
• 1:31:51
  of shadow spawn can't go through gateways. Therefore we can just use gateways to
• 1:31:59
  carve whole of no more shadow spawn through the ranks of the army. And
• 1:32:02
  like, because the gateways open and close, you're not getting a huge pile
• 1:32:08
  of dead bodies in any one place. You're just getting like two, three,
• 1:32:11
  four or five, some small number. And yeah, it's gonna be
• 1:32:15
  weird to deal with. And if that falls right in the middle of your
• 1:32:16
  kitchen, in the middle of having dinner, that's gonna be a really upsetting
• 1:32:20
  day for you as a random person. But like it's it's a clever way
• 1:32:26
  of just like diffusing the power of the army. You know, what I
• 1:32:30
  would have loved to have seen is basically, while this is going on,
• 1:32:33
  like if this was a movie or a TV show, like this incredible battle
• 1:32:39
  cut to a man walking alone, boom dead What the fuck? Yeah,
• 1:32:46
  you know, and then switch to a family eating dinner, boom dead trollic.
• 1:32:50
  You know, it's just like all these scenes of people encountering like one
• 1:32:54
  or two dead trollics appearing out of nowhere, just being like right, what
• 1:32:59
  like word like a major carriage pile up in the middle of the city or
• 1:33:03
  something, right, Yeah, just like people grow screaming and running, you
• 1:33:08
  know. Yeah, people end up getting killed, like in the ensuing stampede,
• 1:33:11
  like but the trollic was dead the whole time. Or here's another one
• 1:33:15
  you have that like you know, somebody about to get robbed and they like
• 1:33:17
  with a big knife coming out, and someone's retreating and you know, about
• 1:33:21
  about to stab the helpless girl and the talk falls bad guy and she runs
• 1:33:27
  away into city. Yeah. Yeah, all those sorts of scenes, Like
• 1:33:29
  I'm just imagining all that kind of stuff every time the death Gate takes a
• 1:33:32
  trollic or a drawl. Yeah, and then one of those random scenes scenes
• 1:33:36
  where it's just like a bird like minding its own business. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:33:45
  the trollk falls out of the sky exactly. Oh, that'd be funny.
• 1:33:50
  Just I feel like you can do all the humor spits with the just
• 1:33:54
  random trollics. Yeah, a lot of comedy there, and then we get
• 1:33:59
  to one of Loose There's best lines, my my, why can't I move
• 1:34:06
  my hands? Which is just I mean, it's such a mind fuck on
• 1:34:11
  so many levels because you realize that Lewis Barren sees Rand's body as his yeah,
• 1:34:17
  which, yeah, no. The blurred is between who is Randon who
• 1:34:20
  was Loose here gets real. At one point he even thinks Rand was seeking
• 1:34:26
  them out. And it's like, I thought Louis was the one who was
• 1:34:28
  seeking uh huh uh huh uh huh. Yeah, there's Jordan is playing so
• 1:34:34
  much with the identity of who is Rand, who is Lewis Thearren, which
• 1:34:39
  one's real, which one's not, you know, and and and in hindsight
• 1:34:43
  you can see like the Lewis Thearren was never real. It's just a voice
• 1:34:45
  in Rand's head. Rand's doing all of this, yeah no, And it's
• 1:34:49
  like, why is Rand doing this? I don't know, maybe he's under
• 1:34:53
  a little bit of stress or something, but like it's very interesting that Rand
• 1:35:00
  and part of his mind cares very much about going after about protecting the Saldaeans.
• 1:35:05
  From the barn fire that gets started. But his actual bodily panic response
• 1:35:13
  is to fight with everything he has, even the insane part of his brain,
• 1:35:16
  because he will not be taken. He will not be taken, you
• 1:35:19
  know, like Igwayne kind of freaka because he's been through some shit and like
• 1:35:25
  the only thing he knows how to do is kill, and like he's terrified
• 1:35:30
  because I mean, Men is in the room behind him. He has to
• 1:35:32
  do everything, even embrace the insane part of his brain that is learning Beaves
• 1:35:36
  in the Age of Legends somehow and we'll get to it. But the only
• 1:35:40
  reason he doesn't suicide is because Men's in the room with him. Mm hmmmm
• 1:35:44
  hmm. Yeah. Everything is on the edge of a knife, and definitions
• 1:35:46
  are very very fluid, also because Men's in the room, so you know,
• 1:35:50
  everything is fluid because we don't need definitions and men's in the room.
• 1:35:55
  Don't forget. Why is he having this issue where lewis thereon can take the
• 1:35:59
  power away from him. It's this dizziness where he's not in his own body
• 1:36:02
  right, he's crossing over with Moradin and that's still affecting him. Every time
• 1:36:09
  he sees power, he gets this double vision with Moradin, and that's really
• 1:36:14
  messing with his head and making him have this out of body experience. So
• 1:36:17
  what happens when you have an out of body of experience You kind of let
• 1:36:21
  the crazy person in your head take over your body, right And like in
• 1:36:26
  also fairness, like Moradin is nihilistic and very much wanting the world to end,
• 1:36:31
  and his former iteration was good friends with Louz a Shawn My own Lou's
• 1:36:35
  were good friends. Like Lou's definitely has an existentialist bone or two in his
• 1:36:41
  body, you know, like he's got some of that nihilistic he wants to
• 1:36:46
  die for more acute, painful reasons than just nihilism. But like there's a
• 1:36:50
  part of him that definitely like hangs out with the emo kids behind the school
• 1:36:54
  and smokes cigarettes right well, And we've talked about how this crossover may be
• 1:36:59
  one of the res why Rand doesn't react physically to pain as much. And
• 1:37:02
  you have to wonder is there any bleed over with the mental state as well?
• 1:37:05
  Is any of Rand's mental state and the nihilism coming from Morden, Is
• 1:37:11
  that mental state bleeding back into Rand in the same way that perhaps Rand's pain
• 1:37:15
  is bleeding into Mordon. That if frances physical state is going into Morden,
• 1:37:19
  is Mordan's mental state going into Rand. Right right, It's all very very
• 1:37:25
  blurry, but also part of Rand really does want to say this all day
• 1:37:29
  and and so he orders Logan to take care of it, like he's got
• 1:37:31
  a nut, like he's out of body, but also like he's a little
• 1:37:34
  bit in body, like it's he's he's having a tough time. And that's
• 1:37:39
  why when he's talking to kad sway in a minute after the fight's over,
• 1:37:43
  and he's like, you can ask me, I'm doing fine, and he
• 1:37:45
  isn't lying because he ran the little bubble inside his head where he's retreated to
• 1:37:53
  is fine, He's fine, and said the bubble he retreated to. He
• 1:37:56
  has all this protective loose there and shit out there to deal with the tough
• 1:37:59
  stuff loose. Thearron is crazy. Rand is fine, right right. But
• 1:38:06
  here's the thing. Rand is the part of brand of the dragon Reborn.
• 1:38:14
  That's fine, lewis Thearren is the part of the Dragon Reborn who is not
• 1:38:16
  fine exactly. Rand is getting smaller and smaller and smaller, because less and
• 1:38:24
  less of Rand is fine and Lewis Theron is becoming more and more of the
• 1:38:28
  dominant personality exactly. I thought it was interesting we get a list of like
• 1:38:33
  all of the trollic bands here in this chapter. So a lot of fucking
• 1:38:39
  bands. Man, there's a lot of bands. Yeah, the Afrite,
• 1:38:43
  the Cobal, the Gremlin, the the Diamond, and the Knoman, da
• 1:38:50
  Vol, Gargol and Dijonen which and then the Banshine, which are right,
• 1:38:59
  just mythical creatures. This is where all of our mythical creatures come from.
• 1:39:02
  The Cobalt, Gremlin, Ghoul, Demon Gnome, uh Devil, gargoyl Gin
• 1:39:15
  and Bancheese. Yeah. I don't know what a fright is, but I
• 1:39:18
  feel like that's the name of like some mythic It's Middle Eastern, right,
• 1:39:24
  Middle Eastern, Okay, yeah, so if I know Gin, I should
• 1:39:27
  know. Yeah, Afri is another in there somewhere, like fire Genies.
• 1:39:32
  It's like a fire gin. Yeah. Yeah, they're all different kind of
• 1:39:35
  mythical creatures. Like Gnomes obviously are not known for being flood through stut warriors,
• 1:39:40
  but you know, except for in a couple of franchises. But like,
• 1:39:44
  it's fun, it's very fun to be like and and gargoyles aren't demons.
• 1:39:47
  They're a fucking architectural feature, you know, like they're not even a
• 1:39:50
  mythical creature, an architectural, artistic like thing that people did, like they've
• 1:39:57
  they've never been considered mythical creatures. It was, Hey, don't say that's
• 1:40:00
  my childhood. I used to love Gargoyles. That was a great cartoon.
• 1:40:04
  They were mythical creatures that came alive. They're from the Scottish Highlands and they're
• 1:40:09
  here to save us. You know, I have no problem with the heck
• 1:40:12
  canon, carry on. It was a cartoon. It was great. I've
• 1:40:16
  heard of it. I mostly just associated with Hunchback of Notre Dame, which
• 1:40:19
  is traumatizing. So mmm. So the thing that you have to understand about
• 1:40:26
  Gargoyles is every single voice in the Gargoyles was a cast member of Star Trek.
• 1:40:31
  Wow, and so it and it was high quality writing. Like so,
• 1:40:39
  if you go listen to it, it's all Patrick Stewart and Kevin Franks
• 1:40:44
  or not Kevin Frank's uh god, Star Trek people are gonna murder me.
• 1:40:46
  All the names, all the names from Star Trek are in it. And
• 1:40:50
  so it's it's very fun to be like Jonathan Franks, thank you. It's
• 1:40:55
  very fun to listen to that and be like, oh, yeah, this
• 1:40:57
  is like Star Trek people. I also just think it's a very well written
• 1:41:00
  story. It's got a lot of cool time travel stuff and character stuff,
• 1:41:05
  and I think it holds up nice, nice all right. So, yeah,
• 1:41:11
  the Triloks have been battling with the cell Daeians in a hand to hand
• 1:41:14
  fashion. Buildings are on fire, all the eyes to Die and Ashaman are
• 1:41:17
  firing out of all the windows around the whole house. It's just do My
• 1:41:21
  as Wells all over again, except as trolks on the other side, so
• 1:41:25
  we're not as traumatized. Yeah. And it's also the inside shooting out as
• 1:41:30
  opposed to the outside shooting in right like it's in. It's almost a mirror
• 1:41:33
  image, almost a h One might say, flame to the fang of do
• 1:41:44
  my as Wells? Yeah, sure, sure, yeah the the inverse,
• 1:41:46
  yeah yeah, I'll take it. So we finally, like the one we've
• 1:41:51
  we didn't talk about is the one where you know, lewis Thearren wants his
• 1:41:55
  hands up so he can do arrows of fire. That's the last week we've
• 1:41:59
  got to talk about, yes, yeah, which is ten from each finger.
• 1:42:02
  Right, So he's shooting one hundred darts essentially a hundred flame darts at
• 1:42:06
  once, So that's a hundred weeds at once. That's a lot for each
• 1:42:11
  one of those things, right, So, but they must be incredibly simple,
• 1:42:15
  right. I imagine this is just like a very simple narrow thread.
• 1:42:19
  It's kind of lasers. He's shooting lasers out of his face. Has Yeah,
• 1:42:25
  he has laser fingers. That's what's happening for sure, because they're coming
• 1:42:29
  out so fast that it looks like they're flickering. It's like, okay,
• 1:42:32
  space travel, shit, what are you doing in my fantasy plot? He's
• 1:42:38
  got laser he's laser fingers. This is essentially him being Han solo. But
• 1:42:44
  we're skipping inventing ran shot first, right, But he's not shooting one.
• 1:42:49
  He's shooting a hundred bullets with each shot out of his fingers, which is
• 1:42:54
  just insane. Yeah, And he's just mowing down trollics, just mowing them
• 1:42:59
  down. And then a bird raw comes up in his face and he points
• 1:43:02
  all his fingers together and just like annihilates its head with every single one of
• 1:43:06
  those flickers, and he kills it so dead that it doesn't even twitch,
• 1:43:12
  which we've never seen a merger will go down that hard. Ever. Well,
• 1:43:15
  when Ni Neive crushed them all to an infantesimal speck and they vanished,
• 1:43:19
  there was nothing left to twitch, that's different. Yeah, and then she
• 1:43:25
  bail fired him. No, I need bail fired him. I think a
• 1:43:28
  GWayne who Doane did the crushing and the electrocuting, and then Nive bail fighted
• 1:43:34
  it. It was a lot. It was a lot. It was effective.
• 1:43:39
  So that was almost as effective. The three of them doing shit was
• 1:43:42
  almost as effective as Rand with his bare hands. Okay, this also reminds
• 1:43:47
  me a little bit of again Robert Jordan with the machine gun in the helicopter
• 1:43:53
  right like this, shooting out very small flames of fire, but just mowing
• 1:43:59
  people down in an arc as he spreads from one like slowly going from one
• 1:44:04
  side to the other. That to me feels more like a machine gun than
• 1:44:09
  it does someone's hands. Yeah, I would agree with it. He wanted
• 1:44:13
  to have Rand to actually have an experience of just like being able to fan
• 1:44:17
  death out with his hands, not bailfire, but bullets effectively, Yeah,
• 1:44:23
  effectively machine gunning down a crowd of people or drucks. Yeah, just just
• 1:44:28
  having his his gatling gun in his colonial conflict where nobody on his side dies.
• 1:44:33
  Like yeah, yeah, perhaps a group of people running at a stronghold
• 1:44:42
  out of a forest and then getting mowed down by a machine gun could be
• 1:44:45
  something that Robert Jordan is familiar with. I'm just way too likely. Yeah,
• 1:44:53
  That's all I'm saying is like this, this feels like something he has
• 1:44:57
  had experienced or at least heard described experience. I mean, it's definitely happened
• 1:45:01
  many many times in many different wars. But yeah, I could totally see
• 1:45:05
  it being something he experienced. And then obviously blossoms of fire and you know,
• 1:45:11
  replace that with grenades people are throwing into a crowd. Death gates would
• 1:45:15
  be you know, booby traps set up along the way. Like yeah,
• 1:45:19
  kind of terrifying. No, I mean, I'm enjoying reading it, but
• 1:45:21
  it is horrifying to think about it much less. It's real world inspirations,
• 1:45:27
  right right. That's the thing is, like you read something like this,
• 1:45:29
  you're like, oh, fantasy and the ego oh not not not really legends
• 1:45:34
  fade to myth and you can tell that serial numbers have not been filed off
• 1:45:38
  completely. Yeah. So yeah, we talked about him making Logane put out
• 1:45:47
  the fires. Yeah, which Logane does to his credit. He doesn't waste
• 1:45:53
  time asking or posturing or anything. He's just like, for whatever reason,
• 1:45:56
  it's my job to save those people. I guess I'll do that because I'm
• 1:45:59
  a decent human being who cares about saving other people. Even though he is
• 1:46:03
  clearly annoyed by it, and like, you know, later on he's like,
• 1:46:08
  why are you asking me to do shit that you should be able to
• 1:46:10
  do yourself, But like, he's still a human being, and I love
• 1:46:13
  the first thing. He turns to Rand and says, why are you hiding
• 1:46:15
  those How did you know how to do that? And why didn't you tell
• 1:46:16
  us before? This has been super effective against Raulus, and Ryan be like,
• 1:46:19
  oh, I just thought about it. I didn't know, I knew,
• 1:46:24
  I just remembered I could do that. Like, but he doesn't want
• 1:46:27
  to explain any of that because it's weakness. It's it's showing how much he's
• 1:46:32
  just flying by the seat of his pants. It's not that he wasn't planning
• 1:46:36
  and scheming and keeping things away from him because he thought it's that he didn't
• 1:46:41
  remember. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. This is nothing like Tayan carefully doling
• 1:46:45
  out information. This is what happens when stuff bleeds through erratically, which is
• 1:46:50
  you know. Remember. I think there was something where he said, I
• 1:46:54
  will never try and hide things from you. I'll teach you anything you need
• 1:46:57
  want to know. I think this is moment where he says that to Logaining
• 1:47:00
  that up. I feel like he says something to the effect of, I'm
• 1:47:02
  not hiding stuff, it's just you know, right, right. So I
• 1:47:06
  think that's why Logains so pissed about like this particular weave being hidden in quotes
• 1:47:11
  right, and it's like, well it's hidden from all of us, dude,
• 1:47:15
  like join the party, Welcome to the club. I didn't know either.
• 1:47:17
  Yeah. And so that Lewis then tries to recreate Dragon Maun. Yeah
• 1:47:39
  yeah, because he says, I seem to remember dying. I remember how
• 1:47:44
  I did it. He drew deeper still in the small pains, grew in
• 1:47:47
  Rand's temples. He's remembering, right, this is this is Rand. He
• 1:47:51
  remembers how he committed suicide, how he created dragonim Ount, how he pulled
• 1:47:58
  the power in and and he yearns for that death right, Like he wants
• 1:48:02
  to die. And remember when I say he, I am talking about Rand
• 1:48:05
  here, right, at this point, Rand wants to die and he has
• 1:48:11
  put knows that that's wrong and realizes that that won't be how he saves the
• 1:48:16
  world. He can't die yet, right, but he knows he has to
• 1:48:19
  die. And there's a certain amount of like I think, cognitive dissonance of
• 1:48:24
  this, like you have to die, right, like trying to accept that.
• 1:48:29
  But at the same time, like all the suffering he's going through,
• 1:48:32
  all the pain he's in, the madness he's dealing with the voices in his
• 1:48:36
  head like he wants it to end, and puts that into Lewis theren right
• 1:48:42
  because he's being asked to live on borrowed time. He's being asked to care
• 1:48:47
  about a world he can't live to enjoy. He's being asked to just suffer
• 1:48:51
  and die and still to care about things while he does it. Right,
• 1:48:57
  He's being expected to laugh at jokes and to be hungry and all these normal
• 1:49:01
  human things and yet also be anticipating the end of his life. And it's
• 1:49:10
  yeah, it's a lot to hold on to. And so it makes sense
• 1:49:13
  to say that the man who blew up the world is responsible for holding those
• 1:49:16
  emotions. I like Aligion. I agree Algion, same thing. I have
• 1:49:21
  hard enough time when I'm waiting for a doctor's appointment, much less when I'm
• 1:49:25
  waiting for my death appointment. Like it's totally an appointment waiting mode, but
• 1:49:30
  it's only miserable thoughts cannot actually do things. Oh my, I as a
• 1:49:38
  person who lives in who like, Yeah, I live in waiting mode.
• 1:49:42
  It's a problem. Uh, that is awful. I remember there's a scene
• 1:49:45
  in them if you've ever watched The Tutors, like the show The Tutors,
• 1:49:51
  It had god, what's her name? That's her name from Game of Thrones
• 1:49:57
  and Hunger Games and Emily whatever no no, no, no, no,
• 1:50:01
  no no not I meanly Clark. God, Damn, I hate it when
• 1:50:05
  I can't remember names. You all know who I'm talking. Anyway, she
• 1:50:09
  played Amplin and there was this there was a she was so good in that
• 1:50:14
  role. And yeah, there's a scene where like the executioner gets delayed by
• 1:50:18
  a day and she like has this moment of being like really like disappointed because
• 1:50:24
  she was so ready for it to be today. She's all dressed up,
• 1:50:28
  She's all psyched out, and then they have to come tell her like,
• 1:50:31
  sorry, he got delayed on the road. We're gonna have to try again
• 1:50:34
  tomorrow. And she's just like for real, and she goes through this whole
• 1:50:39
  cognitive dissonance of like I get to live for another night. God damn it,
• 1:50:43
  I don't want to. I just want this fucking waiting over. I
• 1:50:45
  was ready for it, and now I have to like enjoy one more dinner
• 1:50:49
  when I already had my last dinner and like all that, like, and
• 1:50:54
  she Nadalie Dormer, Natalie Dormer, that's okay, yes, yes, And
• 1:50:58
  she's just so fucking dumb. And if you've never seen that and you want
• 1:51:00
  to watch a costume drama with talented sexy people, yeah, Natalie Dormer and
• 1:51:04
  Jonathan Reese playing fucking Henry and and are just it's a lot as opposed to
• 1:51:13
  the Game of Thrones, where she dies with no notice whatsoever. Right,
• 1:51:16
  it's just explosion and then dead, And it's like, how would you rather
• 1:51:19
  die? Right, Like, would you rather die with some like notice that
• 1:51:24
  it's coming so that you can make amends, but also like you have to
• 1:51:29
  anticipate that or would you rather be completely sudden and unexpected, like you're here
• 1:51:33
  mo Noma and then gone the next Yeah, waiting to be executed for weeks.
• 1:51:40
  M that's rough. That's rough, the concept of waiting to be executed.
• 1:51:45
  It's just like, yeah, yeah, definitely better to just have the
• 1:51:47
  bomb go off three seconds after you realize that there's a bomb. That's vastly
• 1:51:51
  superior. And so I have to I have to color that with something I
• 1:51:55
  heard on MPR. They were interviewing a guy who basically he cleaned up dead
• 1:51:59
  body. So that's that's what his job was, right, So here's a
• 1:52:01
  big interview where he goes to basically where bodies have been discovered, you know,
• 1:52:05
  days, weeks, months later, right, and he does the cleanup,
• 1:52:09
  and at the end of it, they go, you know, you've
• 1:52:12
  probably seen a lot of death and thought a lot about it, like how
• 1:52:14
  do you want to die? And he goes, I want to go slow.
• 1:52:16
  I want to have a chance to say goodbye to everyone. I want
• 1:52:18
  a chance to put my affairs in order. I want to know that I'm
• 1:52:23
  going so that I can arrange things and not be one of these people who's
• 1:52:28
  just left and forgotten and nothing's taken care of and nothing's in order, and
• 1:52:32
  it was just it was an interest perspective that like was like, oh,
• 1:52:35
  yeah, sometimes there's there is something about a slower death that lets you make
• 1:52:43
  peace with your life if you want to. I was just thinking the other
• 1:52:46
  day about the phrase, uh, died unexpectedly and how that's like a qualifier
• 1:52:53
  that's like really changes the timbre of how you respond to someone like, oh,
• 1:52:57
  someone died, sure, was it ECX expected or not? Is like
• 1:53:01
  which kind of of empathy and grief are we looking for here? Is this
• 1:53:05
  the like your rug just got pulled out from under you, or is this
• 1:53:08
  the conclusion of a thing that you've been dreading anticipating for a long time,
• 1:53:13
  Because those are very different flavors. And then you can qualify that with died
• 1:53:17
  after a long fight, right, Then that's someone who is yes, it
• 1:53:23
  was expected, but they still died too young or died in a place where
• 1:53:27
  you expected them to live, right, And so then there's that like that's
• 1:53:30
  a whole different third kind of reaction that you have where it's like, yes,
• 1:53:34
  this is something you've probably been dealing with for a long time, but
• 1:53:38
  it's still more tragic than someone who may have died suddenly of old age or
• 1:53:44
  a heart attack late in their life, you know, yeah exactly, it's
• 1:53:47
  the whole like oh wow, they were so young, Like, yeah exactly.
• 1:53:53
  It's like they're all equal griefs. But it's like your brain always wants
• 1:53:57
  to bin it out and be like but what kind well, and it's difference
• 1:54:01
  between shock versus misery that you've dealt with, and I expect like, right,
• 1:54:09
  yeah, is is shock a part of it or not? Is kind
• 1:54:12
  of the question, rightly? Right? Right? And yeah, being you
• 1:54:15
  know Randon, as you've said before, Rand is living with a terminal illness
• 1:54:19
  and like that's called being the dragon reborn. Yeah, it's a it's a
• 1:54:25
  form of waiting to be executed, right, That is what living with a
• 1:54:28
  terminal illness is. You're not going to be executed by the state or by
• 1:54:30
  a mob boss, but like you are on limited time, and realistically,
• 1:54:35
  if you're on death row, you're most likely to die from a normal illness
• 1:54:39
  anyway. So after having an absolutely ridiculous life, like so so many thoughts
• 1:54:47
  on that that we don't need to get into right now because this episode is
• 1:54:50
  long enough. Okay, So I do to tell I do tell one story.
• 1:54:56
  Thank you so much. This is a great there's a great fucking chapter.
• 1:54:59
  I'm going to make you edit the shit as it is. So In
• 1:55:03
  I don't know, seventh eighth grade, they did that thing where they made
• 1:55:05
  you pick a side of a topic and debate. And the topic I got
• 1:55:09
  assigned was capital punishment. Yeah, and so I had to go pro okay,
• 1:55:15
  And so I'd never thought about capital punishment before. This is the first
• 1:55:16
  time i'd really even you know, had it flash up on my radar as
• 1:55:20
  something that like we did. And I looked into it, and I looked
• 1:55:24
  into it and I looked into it, and I was like, I don't
• 1:55:26
  I can't. Like, it doesn't make you safer, it's not a deterrent
• 1:55:30
  on crime, it doesn't cost less, you know, Like I did all
• 1:55:34
  this research. And so I got up in front of them and they're like,
• 1:55:36
  okay, start your argument. I was like, capital punishment helps society
• 1:55:43
  by lowering the world human population, and as overpopulation is a problem, we
• 1:55:47
  should continue to carry out capital punishment. And I got and that, you
• 1:55:53
  know, and me now looking back, you know, my autistic little self
• 1:55:56
  was like, that's the best argument. I can come up with that is
• 1:55:58
  one hundred percent. I got in so much trouble for mocking the process.
• 1:56:02
  Oh my god. And people were like, they're like, you stood up
• 1:56:06
  to that teacher and you told them like how ridiculous the assignment was. And
• 1:56:11
  I was like, what, No, I just that was that was the
• 1:56:13
  best argument I could come up with, Like I couldn't come up with any
• 1:56:16
  other legitimate arguments, which I mean, is the correct critique of the assignment,
• 1:56:23
  but like that it is the truth and the mounts of babes rather than
• 1:56:27
  like a coherent forty chess maneuver right right, right right, you know.
• 1:56:31
  And the reality was like what the teacher should have said is I understand that
• 1:56:35
  that's the only true argument, but you still need to be able to argue
• 1:56:40
  the other arguments from their side, right. That's what I didn't understand at
• 1:56:43
  the time is I needed to be able to still formulate the arguments that I
• 1:56:46
  didn't necessarily agree with, and I just couldn't. I couldn't do that.
• 1:56:49
  I didn't understand how to do that. Right. Even if they had explained
• 1:56:54
  it, maybe you could have learned to the mental pretzel, but as an
• 1:56:57
  unwritten expectation like, no, no, you're gonna need to make that real,
• 1:57:01
  real, specific, right. I can't argue a lie. I've never
• 1:57:05
  been able to do it. No, it's it's like it can do it
• 1:57:08
  sarcastically. I'm great at sarcasm, but like, m yeah, so that's
• 1:57:15
  that's the And from then on out, my my stance on capital punishment has
• 1:57:19
  been what a ridiculous thing for us to do as a country? Yeah,
• 1:57:24
  like, yeah, there are a handful of times when it becomes a confusing
• 1:57:28
  question rather than a clear cut why would you do this? But like,
• 1:57:31
  broadly speaking, why the fuck are we doing this? It's terrible, right,
• 1:57:36
  right, there's too many people. And then the more I found out
• 1:57:40
  about it, the more about false convictions and stuff like that, that I've
• 1:57:43
  realized it's it's even more. It's more than just ineffective. It's also just
• 1:57:46
  cruel and unreversible in a justice system where we always need to be able to
• 1:57:53
  reverse the sentence because we have false convictions all the time. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:57:57
  The the number of truly complicated people that are actually going to get caught
• 1:58:01
  and put in that situation, it's just so down in the single digits compared
• 1:58:05
  to the number of people being wrongfully tortured for their entire lives until they die
• 1:58:10
  of some stupid illness and some stupid prison forty years after being falsely convicted.
• 1:58:14
  Yep. Anyway, Anyway, Rand is being suicidal and holding all the power
• 1:58:20
  and time suddenly or Logane suddenly becomes like the watcher for everyone, Like,
• 1:58:26
  hey, guys, Rand seems to be little, little brimming with power,
• 1:58:30
  seems to be on the edge of nuking us all, by the way,
• 1:58:35
  Yeah, so suddenly it becomes a bomb diffusion moment, and Rand's like,
• 1:58:38
  why are you all looking at me? I don't understand what the big deal
• 1:58:41
  is? And it's like a lane with wondering why everyone's super It's like,
• 1:58:44
  because you're the attempting queen of the country. That's why. It's like Rand,
• 1:58:49
  you're acting really weird and you're the dragon reborn, Like we are concerned.
• 1:58:55
  You don't get to be mad that we're concerned. That's who you are.
• 1:58:58
  Also, you seem to be army that nuclear bomb over there. Is
• 1:59:01
  there any reason why you're you're warming up the nuclear bomb that the you know,
• 1:59:06
  the bad guys are all dead right, Like yeah, it's it's really
• 1:59:13
  like we're we're all here, like it really is this moment of like,
• 1:59:16
  we need you to calm down after your fight. You were clearly on edge,
• 1:59:21
  and and what I and again this separation where Ran has put all his
• 1:59:26
  anxiety and all of his fight or flight into lewis theren and so he's I'm
• 1:59:30
  fine, but he's still having the physical fight or flight panic reaction in his
• 1:59:35
  body. Yeah, which like we as autistic people cannot relate to in the
• 1:59:42
  slightest at all. We've never had out of body experiences where you're actually sure
• 1:59:47
  you're fine and it's just your body that's freaking out for some completely incomprehensible reason.
• 1:59:51
  But I swear I'm fine on the inside. Why are you shouting?
• 1:59:55
  This is completely unrelatable to us. The blank look you're giving me says I'm
• 2:00:00
  hitting the nail, maybe two on the head. I have no response,
• 2:00:04
  no response. Yeah. So if any of that felt like a personal attack,
• 2:00:10
  like I'm inside your head, Hashagy might be autistic or have some sort
• 2:00:14
  of PTSD or some you know, like there's there's definitely more. I feel
• 2:00:17
  like Jordan's describing something of this like out of body experience could come from a
• 2:00:21
  lot of different trauma responses and stuff like that. Yeah, yes, this
• 2:00:26
  disassociation is is there are many ways to get here. Yeah, it's it's
• 2:00:30
  very when you're not in tune with how your body and emotions connect. This
• 2:00:33
  This makes total sense to me because, like I just it's it's very hard
• 2:00:38
  for me to realize what I'm having an emotion for reasons, and it's it's
• 2:00:42
  just, yeah, I'm fine because I want to be fine. In my
• 2:00:45
  head, there was a part of me that still thinks they're fine, air
• 2:00:47
  go, all of me should be fine, and the everything else you're observing
• 2:00:53
  is just a you problem. I'm no, No, it's just it's just
• 2:00:57
  the meat too. It's just shorting out. Don't don't It's fine. Don't
• 2:01:00
  worry about it. M h, don't worry about that. Yeah, I've
• 2:01:02
  had that happen. Yeah, I'm I'm not. The shorting out, the
• 2:01:06
  shorting out meets suit is definitely something that I feel like, I'm like,
• 2:01:10
  no, my brain's fine. Why am I having trouble physically doing whatever I
• 2:01:14
  want to do? Yeah? Exactly, Yeah, I might be leaking.
• 2:01:18
  Why is there why is there tears coming out of my That's ridiculous necessary.
• 2:01:23
  Yeah, and so Rand keeps escalating until the point where he has to stand
• 2:01:30
  up for men, and he realizes he needs to protect men. In this
• 2:01:32
  case, it's protecting men from Codswayin basically Coddswayne does her like, you know,
• 2:01:39
  arrogant, broad handed, really bad, I'm going to fight Rand right
• 2:01:46
  and Min steps in between them, and suddenly Rand feels like he has to
• 2:01:50
  protect men, and then he says we can die at Harmon Guiden, basically
• 2:01:56
  saying stand down for now. We have to protect men. But of course
• 2:01:59
  it's men. It's men that brings him out of it, right. I
• 2:02:01
  had never noticed that. It always seemed like two very discordant threads going at
• 2:02:05
  the same time. But I like that if you're really seeing random Lose as
• 2:02:10
  the same person who Ranch just doesn't accept that he has two people and all
• 2:02:15
  of that, then then yeah, it totally makes sense that he's on the
• 2:02:18
  edge and not sure what to live for. And then suddenly the Rand part
• 2:02:21
  of him says, I gotta protect men, albeit just from Kadswain. It's
• 2:02:27
  not in any like I gotta protector from myself or whatever. It's just this
• 2:02:30
  little snapping at Kadswain thing. But that's enough for insane lose therein to be
• 2:02:34
  like, yeah, you're right, Well, we'll come back to this later.
• 2:02:39
  We can. We have to. We got to deal with this men's
• 2:02:42
  situation right now. It's so disconnected, and yet I can see the connection
• 2:02:45
  now with the way that you're helping me frame what's happening. It's like,
• 2:02:48
  oh, those are not wildly discordant. They actually dovetail perfectly. I see.
• 2:02:55
  I love the way Jordan loves to do that, where he shows you
• 2:02:59
  either an internal and external monologue they're both happy. It happened with Ninive and
• 2:03:02
  the healing of logame right, where her internal monologue and the next what she's
• 2:03:06
  doing seemed completely unconnected, and he flips back and forth between the two until
• 2:03:11
  there's some snap moment where they are connected. I do notice that she he
• 2:03:15
  points out all the turn real on Codswain's forehead, which is how she knows
• 2:03:19
  that he stops channeling or stops holding the power. Right, So he makes
• 2:03:25
  sure to point those out, and then she goes, I know, and
• 2:03:27
  it's like, how could you possibly know? Oh, maybe those things I
• 2:03:30
  just pointed out dangling on her forehead right right, And that's pretty much the
• 2:03:33
  end of the chapter. I don't know how much. Is there anything else
• 2:03:36
  that we miss that you wanted to talk about? No, No, that's
• 2:03:41
  that's all I got. God, that was just such a good chapter.
• 2:03:44
  I love that chapter. I had a fantastic time doing that chapter. That
• 2:03:47
  was just really really fun. And as you can all tell from the recording
• 2:03:51
  being like or from the episode being like two hours long, Yeah, we
• 2:03:55
  had fun. We had a lot of fun. Yeah for once, only
• 2:03:59
  one chapter over two hours, that's always a good one. Yeah, there
• 2:04:01
  were some tangents, but also there was just a lot to dig into.
• 2:04:04
  There was a lot, There was a lot, and there was a lot
• 2:04:06
  too tangent off of right, there was a lot of things that made me
• 2:04:10
  want to talk about other things. Right, Like it was, we were
• 2:04:13
  not avoiding the chapter. It was just a lot of stuff to go through.
• 2:04:16
  So yeah, this was fantastic. And yeah, and thank you Chat
• 2:04:20
  as always for being live. Really appreciate you guys. You guys are great.
• 2:04:24
  Love having you here so much truly makes me. I could not imagine
• 2:04:28
  doing this with that Chat. It would be so so weird. I'm just
• 2:04:30
  gonna go with I'm standing in your nose and read out the whole part about
• 2:04:33
  man and how he settles out. So I'm standing on your nose, Rand
• 2:04:40
  said. If you want to know how I feel, ask me, Lewis
• 2:04:44
  Thearron. He thought there was no answer, and the sidine feeling him did
• 2:04:47
  not slacken. His temples began to throb. Well, cod Swain asked impatiently,
• 2:04:54
  I feel as right as water, Lewis theron, but I have a
• 2:04:58
  rule for you, cod Swain. Don't threaten men again. In fact,
• 2:05:01
  leave her alone altogether. Well, the boy shows some teeth, golden birds
• 2:05:09
  and fish, stars and moons swayed as she shook her head. Just don't
• 2:05:15
  show too many, and you might ask the young woman whether she wants your
• 2:05:18
  protection. Strangely, Min had shifted her frown to him, and the bond
• 2:05:24
  was threatened, threaded with irritation. Light. It was bad enough she did
• 2:05:28
  not like him worrying about her. Now she seemed to want to take on
• 2:05:30
  codswayin single handed, something he would not be eager to do himself. We
• 2:05:36
  can die at Tarman, Giden, Lewis theren said, and suddenly the power
• 2:05:41
  drained out of him. He released Logan said, as if he were suddenly
• 2:05:45
  on Codswayne's side. I know she told him. He whipped his head around
• 2:05:50
  in surprise. Men can deal with you in her own way if she wishes,
• 2:05:55
  rand said, starting for the door, but don't threaten her. Yes,
• 2:05:59
  he thought. We can die at Tarman. God, we can die
• 2:06:04
  at Tarman. Guiden the echoing him and lewis there and echoing each other.
• 2:06:11
  Right, this is very much They are the same person. Jordan is trying
• 2:06:15
  to tell us that, and they are both insane. Yes, yes,
• 2:06:18
  yes, absolutely nuts, absolutely bonkers. Yeah yeah, there's there's not narry
• 2:06:25
  a brain cell of sanity between them. God, that's so fun. Yeah,
• 2:06:29
  that was just fantastic. And next week the Golden Green rides for Tarman.
• 2:06:33
  Guy, my good, the Golden Grind, the Golden Grain, the
• 2:06:38
  Golden Grind. It's so good, it's so good. We're in such an
• 2:06:42
  exciting part of the book that I'm so excited. Thank you to the Gin.
• 2:06:45
  And that one, of course has the best chapter icon, the nodding
• 2:06:48
  ravens. Yes, naturally, naturally, All right, everybody turn off recording.
• 2:06:54
  Yeah, let's turn recording off. It's gonna be plenty for me to
• 2:06:57
  edit. Yeah, I will pick your brain about walk on but recording is
• 2:07:35
  on. We've got nothing to say about Jordan Gone because we didn't go.
• 2:07:41
  Yeah, it's just that's what I guess. That's what we can say.
• 2:07:44
  We didn't go to jordan Con. Yeah, it looked like fun from a
• 2:07:46
  distance on Twitter. I mean, you know, it was a thing that
• 2:07:50
  was happening on Twitter. Looked great. I look forward to walk on because
• 2:07:55
  it's my opportunity to experience all of that directly. But yeah, I will
• 2:08:01
  say, as much as I love Watcon, but man, Atlanta is a
• 2:08:05
  better place to go than Ohio. It doesn't really matter to me because I
• 2:08:11
  just go to the hotel. So it's true. But I was gonna say,
• 2:08:13
  but then it doesn't really matter because you're just in the hotel with the
• 2:08:16
  con people. So it feels exactly the same. The first year at Watcon,
• 2:08:20
  I did go on the field trip to the book Loft in like Germantown
• 2:08:26
  or whatever it's called. But that was like a forty minute drive and then
• 2:08:30
  a forty minute claustrophobiafs in a tiny little building, and then a forty minute
• 2:08:35
  wait for a thousand coffee orders, and then a forty minute drive back.
• 2:08:39
  And so year two I did not indulge in the field trip to anywhere.
• 2:08:45
  I just stayed at the hotel and that was fine. So I really don't
• 2:08:50
  care what cities. And I'm going to have to fly up and over the
• 2:08:52
  Rocky mountains and land in one of the mountain states and then fly on a
• 2:08:56
  second flight to wherever a CON is. So all of that's the same.
• 2:09:03
  And then to get off and take a taxi to the hotel and then you're
• 2:09:05
  gonna be in a hotel until you reverse the trip exactly. I'll group up
• 2:09:11
  with people going to the CON at the airport. We will all group ride
• 2:09:15
  to the hotel. I mean, it's just like that's that's what the CON
• 2:09:18
  is going to be either way. And and what CON has stolen my heart?
• 2:09:22
  So sorry Jordan con. Yeah. And this year I'm not doing anything
• 2:09:26
  because I'm getting married. You're doing you're doing something. It's called getting getting
• 2:09:33
  married. Yeah. Yeah. And so time, money, vacation time is
• 2:09:39
  all going towards that this year. Yeah. And I early on made the
• 2:09:43
  decision that I do not have the bandwidth or the ability to do both or
• 2:09:48
  the money. No. Yeah, I I even if money was not an
• 2:09:50
  object, I would still not have the bandwidth to go to two cons in
• 2:09:54
  a summer, like I'm gonna do one of these a year. That's even
• 2:09:58
  if money was not an object. In mone it is very much an object.
• 2:10:01
  But even if it wasn't. Thank you for listening to the Wheel of
• 2:10:07
  Time Spoilers podcast. Rate us in the Apple Podcast app, or support us
• 2:10:11
  on Patreon? Is that good enough?