Latest / The UNWavering Podcast / Becoming By Beholding | Chris Asmus '14

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Becoming By Beholding | Chris Asmus '14 · The UNWavering Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey everybody, this is Monty.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_05: And Cassie.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: And welcome to another episode of the Unwavering podcast.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: And uh today we have a fantastic guest.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Chris Osmus is here, and we're excited to dive in.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: But before we do, Cassie, I need to ask you, how do you feel about sushi?
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I wanna like it because it looks beautiful and I love the culture behind that.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_05: It can be casual, it can be fancy, you're with friends, but I actually don't like seafood.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Not your thing?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_05: No, I'm sorry to say.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's fair.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: What's what's maybe the weirdest thing you've ever eaten?
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_05: Um a grizzly bear that I first grizzly bear.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_05: Did you shoot the bear?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_05: I saw somebody shoot it and then ate it.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_05: So that was awkward.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_05: Um, it felt a little personal.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: How about you?
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'll roll with sushi.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I didn't have sushi until college, actually post-college.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: So it took me a while to get there.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm not into like the fully raw sushi thing, but I'm a little raw, you know?
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of where I'm at.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: But it's good.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a fan now, so I'm I'm in.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_05: Um I support you.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: And uh once again, why does this intro conversation that you and I have matter to anything?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, it's because Chris, who we get to talk with today, actually, my first conversation with him in the role of alumni director involved the conversation about sushi.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: And um, maybe we'll get into that in this interview, but it should be a fun talk.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_05: Excellent.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do this thing.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_04: Join as we highlight the people, the purpose, and the pulse of Northwestern.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_04: This is the Unwavering Podcast.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: Students want something real.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: All they see on their phones is fake.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: Everything is, you know, filtered.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so when they come to a church service or come to a chapel service and you get something honest, something real, it might be the first honest thing they've seen this week, and you present them the real Jesus unfiltered.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: It has just been a joy to see people go, Yeah, I want him.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: God wants the real me because he died for the real me.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's just been such a joy for what feels like a generation just wanting something honest.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome back to the Unwavering Podcast.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_05: Our guest today is Chris Osmus.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_05: First and foremost, Chris loves Jesus.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_05: He's also a dedicated husband and father.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_05: Chris is a two-time Northwestern alum, what we call a double alum, earning his degree in pastoral ministry in 2014 before completing his Master of Divinity a year later.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_05: After serving as a worship pastor in Colorado, he returned to the Twin Cities to plant Vertical Church, a ministry primarily focused on reaching college students and young adults.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_05: In the fall of 2024, Chris stepped into the role of campus pastor at Northwestern, where he now regularly teaches in chapel and invests in the spiritual life of students.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_05: Chris is passionate about helping people behold Jesus and be transformed by him.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_05: And we're excited to dive into that today.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_05: Chris, welcome to the Unwavering Podcast.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me, you guys.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_05: This is so exciting.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's so good.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: So good to have you here.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_05: Monty and I were talking about sushi.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_05: What is your take on sushi?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: So sushi would be my last meal.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: I love all I mean, I don't like like the tempura stuff, the American stuff.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: I want like the raw, real fish.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, authentic, if you will.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it's so good.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_05: So there's something about rawness and authenticity here.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_05: Um does that connect how you think about faith?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_05: If we're going deep.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_05: Let's let's go for it.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus didn't die for theoretical sinners.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: He died for real sinners and real sin.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: We don't follow a theoretical Jesus.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_03: We follow a real one.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: He's a real risen savior.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: So good connection over there.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_05: Nice.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_05: Well, when you like sushi, it just it's good for analogies, I guess.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_05: So can bring that in.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there are certain things that you associate with somebody that are like an accurate association.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like pairing you, Chris, with sushi.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: It just works.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's just raw and authentic.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_05: Stepping out of the sushi with raw and authentic.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, what is the Lord teaching you personally right now?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, what a great question.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: The Lord has been reminding me of the value of friendship in this season.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: Just what been walking through some some hard things as a family, as a church.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: And JC Rile has a great quote.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_03: He says, Friendship halves our sorrows and doubles our joys.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I have found that to be exactly true.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: I think earlier in life, uh, especially here at Northwestern, I was so passionate about Jesus and the gospel and the Bible.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_03: And oh yeah, friendship is like this nice side thing if you need it.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_03: And in the last season of my life, it's like, no.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: Gospel, Jesus, church, in the context of relationships.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: Relationships truly half our sorrows and double our joys.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oftentimes we try to create a priority list like that.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe some things aren't meant to be just a list.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just like it just is a part of it's like faith.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's like you don't put faith is just one, and then we just once we're done with that, we move on to two.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's like faith is in it all.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Same with friendships.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: I remember growing up at camp and having mentioned, my dad from the stage would say the average man has less than one friend.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I always thought, like, it's not gonna, that's never gonna be me, you know, a truly a friend that knows you.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: But in the life or the season we're in with with younger kids, or as you even were no matter what season, it can be hard to have a good friend.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I don't know about you.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_05: I majored in friendship at Northwestern and probably minored in communication and theology.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_05: So that was my first priority.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: Have you maintained friendships with some of those people?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_05: I have.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's been a huge blessing.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_05: So shout out to them.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_05: They know who they are.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_05: Um yeah, it's been huge.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_05: Friendships.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, the friendships I've made here have been lifelong, so it's awesome.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: So something uh this isn't original to me, but something we say a lot at our church is if you are 99% known, you're still unknown.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's like is there's is there anybody outside of a spouse that knows the hundred percent?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's where when someone knows the hundred percent and loves you and meets you there, then the gospel moves from a theological reality to a felt one.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_03: Now I can feel it through that person who's loving me across the table.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Are we okay with knowing ourselves 100% to know how our true depth?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man, and to let somebody else into that.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's it takes courage, but it's I mean, it's the difference between uh isolation and community, life and death.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_03: When someone knows all of you and doesn't run away, ooh.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's big time.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh for those of you who have never met Chris, this is how we roll when we get to hang out with Chris.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Is we talk about fun things and then we just we just skip the whole like snorkeling level and we just like go deep diving, right?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_05: Scuba.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_05: Scuba.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, we just go scuba diving right into it.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: I just so appreciate that about you, Chris.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: It just it's um it's not a heaviness that is burdensome, it's uh it's an intentionality that is uh contagious.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just every time I've had a conversation with you, it just immediately goes to another level that is deeper.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that I aspire to be when I grow up.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, we're excited to have you here.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um here's where I'm hoping to go with our conversation.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, we can't talk forever today.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I want to dive in uh and hear a little bit about what you're doing at vertical church and how that came to be, and then catch up to how you got to Northwestern and this place.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then I really want to focus in on um the topic that you've been digging into all school year long with students, becoming by beholding.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: I hope we can land there for the majority of our time.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: But let's start with vertical.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: So church planting isn't for the faint of heart, right?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's not easy, but when and and where did you feel call, feel called to plant?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's a great question.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_03: When I was a worship pastor out in Colorado, I severely missed Minnesota.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: Did you guys know that 70% of people who move out of Minnesota end up moving back?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: Once you, you, once you you when you're here, you're like, oh, this place isn't that great.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: And then you move away and you're like, there's something special about that place.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: So when we were in Colorado, I just felt like, man, I want to get back to the Twin Cities.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I just had this burden for a type of church, um, what we call vertical church.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: And it's kind of in the name as opposed to man-centered horizontal church.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: Church can be about good things, you know, community and potlucks.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: It can be about great things, serving the homeless, serving the poor, seeing the lost get saved.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: But so often a church forgets to be about the God thing.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: Let's make church about God again.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: Let's make a church where God is the main attraction, not the worship team or the kids' ministry, where people leave not talking about, oh, the sermon or wow, that music was so good.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_03: What if there is a church where people leave talking about God?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: He is the main attraction.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_03: He's the main uh he's the MVP of the church, he's the lead pastor of the church, he's the uh most talked-about person in the church.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so our whole desire was just, hey, let's grab a backpack and a Bible and let's go over to St.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: Paul and just try to make a church where God is the main attraction.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so we began getting coffees with anybody who wanted to grab coffee, a lot of Northwestern alum, and we launched in 2018 with about 50 people.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: And as we've just preached God's word and shared the gospel and lifted up his son and said big, audacious prayers, God has been so kind.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: And uh we now have a vibrant, um, God-centered church, and we're just having the time of our life.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: And praise the Lord for what he's done already through you.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you see, God is the main attraction.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I did find that when you were writing about vertical, even at the beginning of this planting process, you said, and this is this is your quote our prayer is that the gospel of Christ would be delighted in, declared, and displayed in every household in the city.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we will labor in Christ to make disciples who make disciples who make disciples.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: We'll give ourselves to see people saved by Jesus, satisfied in Jesus, and sent out on mission with Jesus.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to unpack this just a little bit.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I love all of that statement.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: And and honestly, of all the people that I've met in my life, I can list just a few on a couple on like one hand of people who I would point out as examples of people who so obviously delight in the gospel.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you'd be on that list for me.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I just love seeing how the Lord is working through you.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: But you say in that quote, our prayers that the gospel of Christ would be delighted in.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why is it so important that everything and that statement begins by delighting in the gospel of Jesus?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_03: There's so many answers to that.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_03: Psalm 16 is one of them.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: In his presence is fullness of joy.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: How do we know when we're really in his presence?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: When you're starting to feel joy.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: What's the one of the fruit of the spirit?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: Love, joy.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: We don't have just news, we have good news.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um I heard somebody say you can tell what a church believes by the songs they sing.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: You can tell it how much they believe it by how they sing.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_03: That's good.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's good, right?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_03: And so for me, it's if we really believe what we believe, you know, we're not just talking about, yeah, we're saved from our sins and we're gonna go to heaven and we guys, we're going to heaven.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: We wait.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: Good news.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_03: Good news.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: We're in a per we have parachuted into a universe this morning where our biggest problems have been solved, where all of our sins are buried in some obscure tomb outside of Jerusalem.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_03: Death is no longer a reality for us.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_03: We're going from life to life, not a second in between.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: This has all been perfectly in a single sacrifice accomplished for all of us, where we are going to be with him, our maker and our creator forever.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: If we just bel if we increasingly don't just nod at that, but believe it.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: The natural response is joy.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_05: Amen.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: A transforming joy that just takes you over, right?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, so you Lord.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Lord.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: So continuing with that thought, how does that that delight in Jesus that certainly results in joy and peace and all that fruit, how does that delight lead us to be on mission?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: The things that I want to give my life for are the things that have grabbed hold, not just of my mind, but my heart.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: I would lay down my life for my wife, for my kids, for Jesus Christ, and now increasingly, as we are just believing these things for the truths of these book, of this book, these scriptures, for my church, for the gospel, and you start it just starts kind of spreading out.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so what when you have been captivated, when your heart has been tethered, and you're not just um I I wouldn't I wouldn't lay down my life for the periodic table.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: I just won't.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: They're true, it's true.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: Offended.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: Controversial.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: Controversial.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_03: But because I take no delight in the periodic table, I'm sorry.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_03: But in the truths of the gospel in the faces of my children, now increasingly in the faces of my congregation.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_03: These when you start when they have your heart, mission just overflows as a natural result.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: How would you guys answer that question?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: I actually think that's true what you're getting at.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: I I as you said that, like that you would lay down your life for the things that have your heart.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like we do that.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: That actually seems like a natural response.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like the things that have my heart, whether they should or they shouldn't, are the things that I make room for in my life and I go do something about.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think, Cassie?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_05: Aaron Powell Well, yeah, just expanding on what you're saying, I think and what you are saying, I I think if I can put words in your mouth, you're not just dying for them, you're living for them.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_05: So we live for Jesus, we live for the people in our lives.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_05: So not only would I lay down my life for them, but I'm laying down my time, my energy, my I'm sacrificing for them.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_05: Um I don't want just a husband who will die for me, but I want him to live for me for Jesus first.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_05: But um yeah, that decision every day to follow Jesus and delight in him as he does in us.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_05: So Yeah.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I think we see that in Jesus for the joy that was set before him.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's another level of joy right there to be able to endure that.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, a lot of the um the ministry that you get to do at vertical is um is reaching college students and a younger adult audience.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what have you learned about reaching college students and young adults in today's culture?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: When I was a student here, I think there there seemed to be a lot of Bible knowledge, intimidatingly so.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_03: People knew their Bibles and they they had a literacy.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um and a dark underbelly of that was maybe some kind of s pharisaicalism, phariseism, if that's the word.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um just some religiosity, maybe.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: Today, uh on the discouraging side is I I d and I I think the studies reveal that Bible literacy is down among uh college-age students and high school students.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: But honesty, vulnerability, authenticity, students want something real.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_03: All they see on their phones is fake.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: Everything's fake.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_03: Everything is you know filtered.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: And so when they come to a church service or come to a chapel service and you get something honest, something real, it might be the first honest thing they've seen this week.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: And you present them the real Jesus.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: Unfiltered.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um it has just been a joy to see people go, Yeah, I want him.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_03: And now I don't need to play games, I don't need to put on faces, I don't need to put on filters.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: God wants the real me because he died for the real me.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um it has just been such a joy for what feels like a generation just wanting something honest.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: You said at a chapel not too long ago, um, you were talking about when we share our testimony, that maybe don't just share the general version of your testimony.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like the more like detailed to the point of your own brokenness that you can get like in vivid detail, the more like one, the more that God's strength is shown in that weakness, but also the more that people can relate to being, oh yeah, that's not just they're not just making this up.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's like I can relate with that.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and of course, you know, appropriate wisdom is needed.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: But as much as Jesus turns our misery into ministry, he takes our our pain and makes it the platform in which he showcases what he's done in our life.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: So if I say something generic, I sometimes struggle with lust.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_03: What if you actually get honest with people and say, Man, in a pr you know, with appropriate wisdom in an appropriate context, this is what's really going on.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: I think what I've found is people say, Me too.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_03: And and then Jesus meets us in this place because again, Jesus didn't die for theoretical issues.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: He died for the ones that you're actually struggling with.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: And until you see that he's not shocked by that, he's not gasping by that, he's not surprised by that, it's why he came for that.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_03: Not the sanitized version, the real thing.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: Then all of a sudden, again, the gospel becomes real and joy becomes real.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_05: We must say that encountering that real Jesus through your messages and through others at chapel has brought chapel attendance up.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_05: So there was a craving to hear that and to to meet the authentic Jesus.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_05: And it's it's showing in our community here that people want to hear it again and again every week.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Lord.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_05: Keep coming back.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_05: So that's awesome.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_05: Um well, I want to go back in time a little bit to your time at Northwestern.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_05: I want to hear about Chris, the student, and how did Northwestern impact your life as a student?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: I was one of those Pharisees I was talking about.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: I was freshly saved.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_03: So I uh the semester before my freshman year, I got saved at a young life camp.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: Shout out, Castaway, Detroit Lakes.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was fired up.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: I was so excited.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then I came to Northwestern and I immediately realized, oh, I don't know everything that these people know.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I kind of went on.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: I need to learn everything as fast as I can.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: I grew into a Pharisee in a moment where everything was head knowledge and I wanted to argue about everything.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_03: And um I had some professors that were so patient with me.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I had my experience with chapel was life-changing.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_03: I might have shared this before in a podcast, but specifically there was a guy named Kempton Turner who came through, and he was at the time the youth pastor at Bethlehem Baptist, and he came and he would do a couple chapels every year.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_03: And the way he talked about God, I don't remember what he said.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: I remember how he talked about God.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_03: He was just passionate.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: He was talking about God and the gospel like this is real, like this is life-changing.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like laid flat and I said, I don't know what that is, but I want that.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know what he's doing, but I want to do that with my life.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: And so um, he like he was really my inspiration for how to talk about God, how to preach, um, how to spend your life.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: And that happened at chapel.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's just humbling to me now to go.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_03: Not that I would have that impact on students, but just know that like God changes lives in chapel.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't I should probably text Kempton someday and just say, dude, you change my life, because I've actually never told him that.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_03: But chapel here was, and my time at Northwestern was absolutely transformative.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_03: I came in as a Pharisee.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_03: I left as just a humble Jesus lover wanting to spend my life for his cause.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's so good.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: And now that's actually a really good segue into talking about the theme for this year's chapel of becoming by beholding.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: And just really quick, if you've if you are listening to this and you don't know how chapel works at Northwestern, so uh students get to go to chapel uh three days a week into the main chapel.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: So on Monday, it's My Story Mondays.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: On Wednesday, it's Wednesdays in the Word, and then there's Praise Chapel on Fridays.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Tuesday is a prayer chapel.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's an option for students, and Thursdays they have alternative chapels that are kind of breakouts.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: With different subgroups of people on campus.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: But on Wednesdays is when Chris primarily has a chance to just open the word and share with people.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: And Chris, I don't I don't want to just dip our toes into this topic.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: We're just going to cannonball right in here.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: So um let's get right out to the heart of the theme.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: So what is the theme becoming by beholding?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: The idea of becoming by beholding comes from 2 Corinthians 3.18, which says, and we all with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: So just break that text down.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: And we all, with unveiled faces, so we're not like Moses, this is New Covenant.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: Whenever we see, behold the glory of Jesus, we are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: That means every time we catch a glimpse of Jesus in his word, illuminated by the Holy Spirit, we get transformed.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: And it doesn't feel like it.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: It certainly doesn't feel like it.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: Most of the time when I'm in the Bible, I go, okay.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: And then you move on with your.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: But the promise here is no, no, something happened.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: There was transformation happening there.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: It was just one degree.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's why you didn't feel it.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_03: It says, from one degree of glory to another.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's just one degree.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: But you are being transformed.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: So the goal with this chapel year is just let's just see Jesus from a different passage every Wednesday.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: Let's open the Bible, ask the Spirit to show us Jesus, and just trust that as we behold him, we are becoming like him.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's good.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're just taking a real good look at him through different uh different passages in the Word.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: As you've gone through the school year, what have been a few examples of the different passages or the Bible stories that you've taken a look at?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, we really dove into what theologians call Christophanes.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: And Christophanes would be uh sightings of Jesus pre-incarnation, so before he was born in Bethlehem.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: Where does he show up in the Old Testament?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: And it's so fun to see Jesus in the Old Testament.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_03: So the second person of the Trinity, the Son of God, is the one who has, who walks.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: God is Spirit, John 4, so the Father is Spirit.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, the Holy Spirit is spirit.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: Which member of the Godhead has hands, walks, walks.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: That's the second person.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: So anytime we see that in the Old Testament, that's a Christophany.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: So that starts all the way back into the garden.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: Who was walking with Adam?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: We started there.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then we went through a lot of Genesis.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_03: Who wrestled with Jacob?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: Which member of the Godhead wrestles?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: That was Jesus wrestling with Jacob.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: And we went all through the Old Testament, we went through some psalms.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_03: Now we are making our way through the Gospels, and it has just been an absolute joy to see Jesus where we did not expect him.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know, a lot of these stories you just become so familiar with them and you're like, I've heard this a hundred times.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: But when you see, whoa, that's that's Jesus there.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: That's a pre-incarnate sighting of Jesus.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: Or even in the New Testament, seeing him in a just a slightly different way has been sanctifying, transforming.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: How does it actually shape who we become when we behold something?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_03: That's a great question.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: I want to hear your guys' answer to it.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: My knee-jerk answer to that would be we worship our way into things, but we must worship our way out.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: We worship our way into, you know, we call this idolatry, is the Bible category.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: Our the way we relate to our work, the way we relate to our families, the way we relate to finances and our career goals.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: Those aren't just those things, those are things that grab our affections, our hearts.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: Those things, if we aren't careful, become our gods.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_03: So how do we get released from those?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_03: You can't just crowbar a God out of your hands.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: You have to worship your way out of it.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so as we see him in a way that stirs fresh worship of him, you begin letting go of those lesser gods and clinging to him and him alone.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: How would you guys answer that question?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think about it maybe in the reverse angle is how my mind starts to unpack it.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: I remember somebody said a phrase for a downhill skier.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: If you focus on not hitting the trees, you hit the trees.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: But if you focus on the trail going through the trees, you have a better chance to actually ski on the trail.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like you kind of hit what you're looking at, basically.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that to me is uh a picture of just where my heart goes or the things that I am allowing to just behold or consume me or get a lot of my attention is shaping what I become or shaping my desires, which then shape what I want to do more, which shape more and more and more and more.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm becoming more and more like that.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of taking over my life or I'm allowing that to do it.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I think for me it's it is stepping aside.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um, something you just said recently in the chapel was there's just one thing, right?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: There's one thing you need to do.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and it's just behold me.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like just stop.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you're dealing with anxiety or whatever, step one is like behold me.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: And and I I have found that in my life, when I have done that and actually made time to stop and behold, then my heart starts to pull back into this thing, and my desires come after it, and I behold, and desires behold, desires behold, and I become more and more like Christ.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's so profound and so well said.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's like we do what we do because we think what we think, because we believe what we believe, because we love what we love.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_03: So this was Jonathan Edwards back in the Puritans.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: So we're we're driven not by just wouldn't it be nice if we were just driven by logic and our intellect?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_03: Just this decision makes that's not how it works.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_03: We love things.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_03: We're lovers.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's why God says the greatest commandment love me with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love others as yourself.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: So as we see him, he's altogether lovely.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so all of a sudden we love something different.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_03: We love someone different, and then our beliefs and our thoughts and our actions build off of our loves.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I think this time which is Lent, um, and some of us Protestants sometimes will participate as well.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_05: But um we often give something up, but what are we what are we beholding instead?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_05: So it's one thing to just sacrifice something, but to pick something else up, time with Jesus, that reflection um I think is the bigger part of it than just dropping something.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_05: But um, I know when I give up something like social media for Lent or for a fast, am I filling that time with time with the Lord, or do I just pick up another hobby or um I have a tenden you know, we're human, have a tendency to pick up something that's not as meaningful, but yeah, what can I behold?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, you're right.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: From a parenting perspective, I heard uh another quote recently that said, We teach what we know, but we reproduce who we are.
• 29:25
  unknown: Wow.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Can you say it again?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: We teach what we know, but we produce what we are or who we are.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: So even if our kids like we're we can teach it to them and they're getting it in their head knowledge, like do what I say, not what I do, right?
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: Or just yeah, maybe it's actually something we do.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: But though oftentimes our kids are going to become a lot like us, we'll reproduce who we are.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Not that that's pressure on us as parents.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's but I think that's a similar way as we follow our example of Jesus.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: If we're just spending time around with him, it helps uh disconnect it just from us just thinking in our heads of like this is the scripture, this is what it says, it's in my brain.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: But spending time around him, then he's reproducing who he is.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it rubs off on us, right?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: If it's something like that.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that made sense.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: That made perfect sense.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_05: It did.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_05: It really did.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_05: I can see the fruit too in my my husband's life as he is in the word every day, and just the fruit that that produced that he doesn't see, but I can see it in his gentleness and patience with me and the kids and just his love for other people that you know he wasn't a a big people lover before being in the word every day, and now he's well, he's always had a tender heart, but just the way it's expressed is so different, and that's that's what becomes this degree.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_05: Each degree of closeness with the Lord.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's like that old saying, show me your friends and I'll show you your future.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_03: That's good.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_03: And if you are befriended and really become friends with the friend of sinners, yeah, you'll become like him.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, Chris, how do we actually behold Jesus in a busy, distracted world?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, just this morning in chapel we studied Luke chapter 10, where Martha and Mary.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_03: Martha, Martha, you are distracted.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_03: You are anxious and troubled about many things.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: But Mary has chosen the good portion, the one that will not be taken away from her.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_03: So it is sitting with Jesus.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: And this can mean a lot of things.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: This could be a quiet time in the morning.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: I want to actually expand, I want to see that expanded in my life.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want, I don't want to give Jesus 30 minutes in the morning.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: I want to all throughout the day, while I'm in the meeting, while I'm in the while I'm writing the email, just in my heart talking to the Lord.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: Lord, help me here.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: Even right now as in this podcast, Lord is the Lord is with us, you guys.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: The Spirit is with us.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: And so one thing is necessary, Jesus says.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_03: Sit with me, be with me.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_03: And so in a distracted way, world, I think you need to pick a time.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: You need to protect it.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like this is my God slot.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_03: No one else gets my God slot.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: For me, I am a I start with my mornings, uh, it's an early, early morning, but people will ask, Can I can I get a meeting with you?
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm I'm booked, sorry.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm meeting with someone, and he died for my sins.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: His name is Jesus.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: So we I think starting the day is important, but then throughout the entire day, just pulling aside, it could be a minute in your car, it could be a half a minute before you step into that conversation that you know it's gonna be kind of difficult.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_03: Lord, show me yourself.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_03: Give me a verse right now.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_03: I need to see you afresh.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_03: Show me, show me, Lord.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: And the verse after 2 Corinthians 3.18 is verse 19, which says, And this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_03: The Spirit will meet us in those moments and give us if exactly what we need to everything Jesus is calling us to do.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_05: That reminds me when I was growing up, my dad was a pastor and um he needed to make time for the Lord as well.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_05: He would put a sign on his office door that said, I'm talking with the Lord right now.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_05: If what you have to say is more important than what he is saying, feel free to knock.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_05: So um you gotta be intentional sometimes.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_05: Yep.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_05: It's hard.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_05: It's so real.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_05: Everyone's so distracted.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_05: So um, Chris, we've loved having you here.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_05: As you know, um Northwestern is unwavering.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_05: So we want to hear what does unwavering mean to you in your life?
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm 34 and I'm in a I don't know if this is the answer you're looking for, but this is the honest answer.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_03: I think a lot of the ambition of the 20s, that I'm gonna go and change the world, um is kind of I've I've heard that the 30s is where you move from a sprint to a jog.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm in a season right now, approaching my mid-30s, where I've had a lot of disappointments.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of the dreams that I hope to achieve by now are not achieved yet, maybe not ever.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_03: And my pace is I'm moving more from just sheer enthusiasm to endurance.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: Gospel grit.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_03: You know, just keep going.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_03: Wake up and keep going.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: And so for me, unwavering is the daily decision that thank Holy Spirit help me to just endure, to keep going.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: To um, I was just last night I was holding my wife's hand as we fell asleep, and we were both just really kind of discouraged.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I just said, be 1 Corinthians 15, be steadfast and movable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: That's what unwavering means to me.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: And hallelujah, that we have a God who is unwavering in his faithfulness to give us the strength that we need.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, Chris, as you leave here today, if any of that discouragement is lingering, man, I hope you would just soak in the fact that the Spirit of God is in you and that that would provide you encouragement.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: And for you listening to this podcast, um, I hope that you will take uh this as encouragement to behold the Lord today.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like just behold him.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: You can behold him in his creation and what he's done, you can behold him in his word, but take some time and just let yourself just be with him.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: And may that continue to change each one of us to become more like Christ and uh to shine his light in a world that that needs it.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, Chris, as always, thank you for encouraging us.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for being here.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for doing it, Northwestern, and we're praying for you at vertical and with your family.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, man, have an awesome rest of your day.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me, guys.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for listening.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_04: To hear more, subscribe and leave a rating wherever you listen.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_04: And if you know an alum, faculty member, staff, or student of Northwestern doing amazing things out in the world, let us know at alumni at umwsp.edu, the unwavering podcast, highlighting the people, the purpose, and the pulse of Northwestern.