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Faith in Captivity: Finding Hope (Jer. 29:10-24) · Main Thing Podcast

• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Thank you for reminder for us to recall in today's divisive and dark culture, from foundational truths and scripture to the hot topics of today's culture.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Allow this podcast to inspire and motivate you on your faith journey.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Well, hey, pastor, steve, good morning, glad to be here with you again.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Good to be here.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: We are on episode 15 today, so 15 in, and it seems like people have been responding well to it.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I think I got one remark the other day about them liking walking through the Scripture, and so I know that the one we did on Catholicism doctrine and Baptist doctrine or Protestant doctrine was one that people really liked.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: And then your testimony.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: So appreciate you being here.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: It's been a joy, my pleasure.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: So we're going to be in Jeremiah, chapter 29 today.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: We're going to be in verses 10 through 14, and then Jeremiah 31.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: So I'll go ahead and read that and then we'll jump right in.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: So Jeremiah 29, 10 through 14.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: For thus says the Lord when seventy years have been completed for Babylon, I will visit you and fulfill my good word to you to bring you back to this place, for I know the plans that I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for calamity, to give you a future and a hope, Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me and I will listen to you.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: You will seek me and find me.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: When you search for me with all your heart, I will be.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: And then we're also going to read 31 through 34.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Behold, days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant, which they broke although I was a husband to them, declares the Lord.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: After those days, declares the Lord, I will put my law within them and on their heart.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I will write it and I will be their God and they shall be my people.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: They will not teach again each man, his neighbor and each man his brother, saying Know the Lord, for they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, declares the Lord, for I will forgive their iniquity and their sin.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: I will remember no more, declares the Lord, for I will forgive their iniquity and their sin.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: I will remember no more.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: So in verses 11 through 12, the Lord assured His people that what had happened to them, the captivity, was not by mistake, that he had a plan and a purpose for it.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: And I think that really brings to mind the reason God placed Israel in captivity was to restore relationship with them.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: You know you preach this Sunday on marriage and talking about family and disciplining kids and how you don't discipline for punishment, you discipline for restoration.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: That's right and that's what's going on here in Jeremiah.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: And he says he encouraged them to pray, for he would listen to them if they prayed and repented and went back to him.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: And I think verse 13 is one of the greatest evangelistic texts where God says if you seek me, you will find me with all your heart.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: And God assured them that if they sought him, that he would be found, that if they sought Him, that he would be found.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: And you know, I think a lot of people read this and take it out of context and think, okay, I'm going through this specific situation and God's going to turn it into this way, because this is what I think would be good for me.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: But God's bigger than our problems and specific things, that's going on in our life.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: He has a greater plan.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: So, in talking about discipline, you know, jeremiah was sent to do an impossible task.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: He would preach to a hard-hearted people, a stubborn-necked people, and they wouldn't listen, they wouldn't repent.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: But Jeremiah did it anyway, and we talked a little bit about that the last episode.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: But Jeremiah did it anyway and we talked a little bit about that the last episode.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: So what's God's purpose in disciplining Israel and what is His purpose in disciplining us today, in 2025?
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Well, I think it goes back to what you said a moment ago.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: I think Scripture gives us the pattern for restoration.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: You always see God use the word you want encouraging, begging, pleading, teaching his people to return.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: I believe that's positive reinforcement, and so I always see him trying to get his people to reach back out to him, to return to him, to return to that first love, before there's punishment.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: And you know, I think that's a great pattern for us as human beings.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: So I always believe in positive reinforcement, first of all because of the pattern I see in Scripture.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: But when positive reinforcement fails, then God takes the attitude okay, you're not getting it or you refuse to get it.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: So I got to help you get it, because I love you too much to leave you to your own decisions.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: That's going to lead you down a terrible path, and so there is punishment in Scripture, but it's not for the sake of punishment, it's to bring them back to Him.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: And what I think is important in this passage, they're going to go into captivity for 70 years.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: You, basically, you're going to lose this generation that refuses to respond to him.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: Right, and he's going to start with a new generation.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: And so this is encouraging because we still go through these cycles as societies even today.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: And in America, you know the sociological guys.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: They want to brand everybody with a name boomers and this millennials and Gen Z marriage again that the millennials were not.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: And so you don't necessarily lose the whole thing with a generation, right.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Sometimes the Lord will move a generation out of the way to accomplish His goal.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: Right, and that's an excellent point, steve, because that reminds me of the Israelites wandering in the wilderness.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, he let a whole generation go and raised up a new generation with Joshua to take the promised land.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is hard for us to understand.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: He is holy God.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: He will accomplish his intent, his goals, and if we can't be obedient and respond, he'll just use someone else.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah it's not a problem.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this idea of seeking welfare of the city, I think this can be overlooked because it's so simple.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: You know, jeremiah prophesied.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: The Lord said pray for this city.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: And I mean, if you think about it, that would be like another country taking us over and someone saying the Lord has said to pray for that country, but really that country's prosperity that's taking you over would mean your prosperity, yeah, and so that's what the heart of the passage is.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: And I think it's so interesting because it seems like I know, for me, being in America, if a country were to take over us and the Lord were to say, hey, you need to pray for this country, I'd be like, are you kidding me?
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: I'm ready to fight.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Right, right, yeah, absolutely.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: The welfare of the city and the significance of God writing a new covenant.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: So what does that mean for us, this new covenant written in our hearts?
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: Well, the new covenant is that there's a remnant that they're not done with this generation.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: He's going to raise up a new generation when he brings them back home and you know, there'll be a generation that'll love God and he'll love them and there'll be his people and he'll be their God.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: That's how we named our school, that's how we named our church, off of that passage.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: You know, a lot of people think we're reformed when they hear the word covenant.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: But I didn't know, the reformed guys owned the word.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: I take it at its purest meaning that we have an agreement with God.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: We'll be his people, he'll be our God.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: And so the new covenant is a promise to the Israelites that a new day is coming.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: It's not going to be this old, messed up way forever.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: A new day will be dawning, right, yeah and I try to.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Anytime I'm reading the Old Testament passage, I try to put myself in their position, just to get a better grasp on what's happening, and I would imagine for that generation it was.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: They would have been saddened by the truth that they're going in captivity and God's going to use someone else and that new covenant's coming later, not now when I'm here.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: And, like you said earlier, god is sovereign and he's got a plan, but sometimes it's hard to accept that Sure it is.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Well, and here's the really tough part for a human being, there was a remnant that was being faithful okay, a small remnant, but they also went into captivity, right?
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: And so you know, in a simplified form we'd say, the mass often suffers for the sins of a few.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: In their case, the few suffered for the sins of the mass.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: So there were some that died in captivity, that were obedient, that did love the Lord, who did try to honor him, but God brought out of probably their offspring, that new remnant you know that future covenant that he was talking about, because I don't believe they stopped being faithful because they went into captivity.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: So I'm sure they raised their children to love the Lord and that would be the remnant that came out in the new covenant.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Right, right, yeah, amen.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: So bringing it home to us.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: We see Israel going through what they've been through.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: We see the words of our Lord to them.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: It was harsh.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: They would have felt it was real.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Jeremiah, in many ways, faced lots of persecution because of the truth he spoke.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: How do we, as believers, find hope in the midst of trials, in the midst of this?
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: dark generation that we're in today.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we find encouragement.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: We know that Scripture tells us that God is consistent the same yesterday, today and forever.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: We know that he is not mocked, that he is the ultimate authority, he is in control, and so we have to keep our focus on Him and not on social paradigms.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Where we make the mistake is we tend to think social paradigms should shape us Right, and they should not.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: For the Christian, for the believer, the Word of God should shape us, and sometimes we're going to look strange to the world around us.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: This is not our home, right, we have a home in heaven.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: We are aliens.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: The Bible teaches us passing through, so it's really, I think, an anomaly that the average Christian would expect to fit in.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: We really should not even expect that.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: We should know that it's going to be hard.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: It's going to be difficult, that we will be mocked and ridiculed by some.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: We are blessed in America.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: We actually have an easy time of it compared to most of the world around us.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: And so I talk to Christians who, you know, they lose a friend at work and they can't figure out why God would let that happen.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: And I'm like come on, really, really, you lost a friend at work.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: We have no idea in America what real persecution is.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: This is real persecution.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: These people lost their entire lives and were taken into a foreign country and made to do slave labor for a generation.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: Yet, as I said earlier, there was a remnant that was still very faithful to the Lord.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: It is in the tough times in our journey that we find out if our faith is real or not.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: And Rick Warren said it well many years ago.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: He said Christians are like tea bags you never know what's inside until you drop it in the hot water, you know.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: And when a Christian gets dropped in the hot water, you know.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: And when a Christian gets dropped in the hot water, you find out pretty quick if they're really all in or not.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Not that a legitimate believer couldn't struggle with some things.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: Sure, they do, but they don't run around with their hair on fire when it's hard.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: And so we must focus on our Savior and on His Word and on His promises.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: That's how we navigate the difficult world that we live in.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Amen.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: One of the things I've seen too, steve, and I know you have as well.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: The believers who are committed to the body yes, the body supports them in those moments, yes.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Who are committed to the body yes, the body supports them in those moments, yes, and they get through it yes.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: But if they're disconnected it's much harder.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Hardest thing in the world to teach people.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: You know, we have a large number of people who come in here on Sunday morning five minutes after the music has started and they leave during the invitation.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: They never speak to a pastor.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Most of them never speak to another human being.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: They slip in, slip out and you see them in the grocery store and they act like they're your best friend.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: You don't have a clue who they are because I've never interacted with them and so they never get involved.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: What we know is, if you become part of a church, if you have not, within a year, connected to some other believers and begun to become a part of that community, you're most likely to drift out.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: You're going to leave, you know.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's vital.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: God, in His wisdom, created His church.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: It is our family and it serves to function every way.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: A family should function to care for one another, support one another, encourage one another.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: That's what the body of Christ is His church.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: He died for His church.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Scripture's clear about that over and over and over, and so obviously we're not talking about buildings, we're talking about the living, breathing body of Christ human beings.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: And to get a lot of people to understand the importance of that is really difficult.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Why is it significant?
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: And we see in the Scripture that Israel was commanded to pray for their captors because it would also mean blessings for them and prosperity for them.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: But for us, why is it important for us in this day and time to pray for our enemies?
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Well, jesus is clear that we should pray for our enemies.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: If you believe in the power of God and I do, and if you believe in the power of God and I do, and if you believe in the power of prayer and I do, I firmly believe our prayers are answered when our hearts and our prayers align with the will of God.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: I don't think we can move God to fix or change anything that's not in His will.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: But in prayer, I think our hearts, our minds, become more aligned with His will.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: The Scripture says He'll give us the desires of our heart.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: You know, sometimes I wish it had explained that a little better, but I firmly believe what that means is when we're aligned properly with His will, then those prayers will be answered.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: We know that prayers can move God and that he does respond to prayer, and so it's vital for us to be praying people.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: This is another area I'm afraid we don't understand the importance of it.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: A lot of people probably need to hear this definition, but what would constitute as an enemy towards us?
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: constitute as an enemy towards us.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would think an enemy is anybody who has the intent to cause or do harm to you, whether physically or in some other way.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: You know it could be somebody who just wants to keep you from getting a promotion at work or a pay raise because they don't like the fact that you're a Christian.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: We need to understand also that persecution happens when you're being mistreated because of your faith.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: A lot of Christians do dumb things and they think they're being persecuted, but in fact they did a dumb thing and they're reaping what they sowed, and so persecution is only truly when you're being mistreated because of your stance as a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: And that still happens, I think, daily here in our country.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: It's much more subtle here, behind the scenes, quietly mask and veil statements, those kind of things you know.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: But yeah, we have to understand that to be persecuted is to be mistreated for our faith, our stance in Christ.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: And what more powerful statement than us lifting that individual to the throne room of God in prayer and one day seeing that person come to salvation in Christ?
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: And so we have to be reminded that the Lord always seeks to restore.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: He came to seek and to save that which was lost, right.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: And so our enemies oftentimes are lost and we're not going to reach them through reciprocal hatred.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Nobody's ever been one to the Lord because a Christian hated them, right, ever been one to the Lord because a Christian hated them.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, we're to have a very different response than a lost person would have to mistreatment.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Amen, amen.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: What does it look like or what does it mean to live faithfully while waiting for God's promises?
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is probably one of the hardest things for any of us.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: I know it is for me.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: You know, I can remember pastoring my first 20 years in the ministry and I'd pastor churches that had good people in them.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: I think they loved Jesus.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: But God wired me to reach people for the kingdom and although every church I've ever pastored grew, I would stay so frustrated because there were always some barricades that kept us from reaching certain neighborhoods or certain ethnic groups or whatever you want to call it.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: We were limited in reaching people and boy, I would pray Lord, I just want to serve a church where we can be the church.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: You know, that's what I want to do and for me, at least in my lifetime, this church is the closest thing to the answer of that prayer that I've had.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: You know, I just am so thankful for our church family and their openness to whoever walks through those doors, to love whomever comes in, whatever their background, whoever they are, because we're here to reach them for the kingdom Right.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: We're not here to check a box.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: For certain people and for me, I know that has been hard for 20-plus years.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: Boy, you pray and you just feel like God wasn't listening.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: You know, Boy, you'd pray and you'd just feel like God wasn't listening.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: You know, but the truth is, even though I had that prayer, I probably wasn't ready for what I was praying for you know that's good.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: And so God, in His wisdom, answered my prayer, I think in His timing, Right when it was the best time for it to happen.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, amen how does Jeremiah's prophecy of the new covenant point to Jesus?
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: Well, he is our new covenant.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, through the new covenant we no longer do the old sacrificial system.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: We're not bound by the law, we're bound by grace, you know.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: So that is a picture.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Everything in Scripture leads to Jesus ultimately.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Wa Criswell said there's a fine, thin red line that runs from Genesis to Revelation, and it's the redemptive blood of Jesus.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, jeremiah is a picture of what the Savior will do for us down the road.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: Amen, amen.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate you, brother.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: That's it for this episode.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Thank you, good to be here.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: We'll see y'all next time.