Latest / King Dems Podcast | Growth Mindset, Leadership, AI and Business Insights / Wealth, Growth Mindset, AI in Business and Leadership Strategies | Ademola Odewade x Stan Sukhinin

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Wealth, Growth Mindset, AI in Business and Leadership Strategies | Ademola Odewade x Stan Sukhinin · King Dems Podcast | Growth Mindset, Leadership, AI and Business Insights

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The main difference between a human in the air right now,
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Yeah, I think it's DJ. It's just like not really not
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enough context. Still it's it's very limited in
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terms of context and the strategic thinking.
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Yeah, it's a slack of the strategic thinking.
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Welcome to the King Dems Podcast, where we share the
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stories of extraordinary people and dissect hot, relevant topics
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that shape our world. From visionary leaders to
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trailblazing creatives, we uncover the mindset, strategy,
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and grit behind greatness. Whether it's business, culture,
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or personal growth, we ask the real questions.
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This isn't just conversation, it's transformation.
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The Kingdom's podcast, Your next breakthrough starts here.
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Music licencing reimagined we are live ladies and gentlemen,
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you once again welcome to the Kingdom's podcast and today I
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have with me fighting out of Texas, United States by way of
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Moscow, Russia. Welcome the one and only Stan's
1:06
opinion. How old you?
1:08
Stan, hold on, I'm, I'm 41 years old here.
1:15
Whoa, 41 years old? OK, interested.
1:21
Wow. The man, the myth and the
1:23
legend. Let us meet the man behind the
1:26
metrics. How do you describe yourself?
1:30
I'm a I'm a financial guy. I'm a financial guy that
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passionate about corporate financials, companies financials
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and I like dig into the businesses.
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So I would describe me as a financial nerd that like working
1:44
with the entrepreneurs and business owners.
1:47
Oh, wow, OK, finance guy. I like to call myself a finance
1:51
guy as well, you know, so finance finance guy beats
1:54
finance guy because, because for me, I, I have a first degree in
1:58
economics and a chartered counter.
2:00
What do you guys call ACP in the, in the US?
2:02
And I did work with two of the big four accounts and firms, PwC
2:06
and KPMG. So pretty much we, we crunch
2:10
numbers for leaving, but you know, for you, you, you grew up
2:14
in Moscow, right from the most suburb.
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But now to managing over $450 million, not just dollars, U.S.
2:24
dollars. And that's not my mistake.
2:27
Yet in capital, your story is powerful.
2:31
But let's rewind what drove a young man at 15 to pursue
2:35
finance so fiercely. Yeah.
2:39
So like my first level was with the financials when I kind of
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like look at the business magazine first, like when I was
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like 15 years old. And I find out like there's an
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entire world of entrepreneurs, business owners that like making
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like these businesses and making a lot of money.
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And it's just like, and I realised when I was like 50
3:00
years old, it's like, it's the thing that I want to do.
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And, and then I kind of like thinking, OK, how I can start.
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And, and I, I was really good with numbers and I was thinking,
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OK, it's probably I can go to work at the, at the bank, at the
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lending department. And I will see the, the bank and
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how like how banks works. And then like see the
3:23
businessman's because like when you, when you issue a credit,
3:26
you, you meet like business owners, you understand the
3:28
business models. You guys think like all those
3:31
questions and, and actually it's, it's kind of pan out as a,
3:35
as I as I kind of like imagine, I imagine that that will meet
3:39
the businessman's. I will see like the financials
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and then I learn from them and it's how it happens.
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So my my first position was that like a regional Moscow bank,
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like a corporate lending department.
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And and then I kind of like grew my career and yeah, I become
3:56
became like a senior partner when I was 27, now 29.
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We kind of like, we start doing mezzanine financing in Russia.
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We were like one of the first who started doing like mezzanine
4:07
financing and like the structure was a little bit kind of
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sophisticated. But yeah, it was a really,
4:13
really interesting time. Wow, so you rise into senior
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partner at the age of 29. It's quite a big achievement,
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but yet, you know your pandemic fever led to something even more
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meaningful. So what happened in that season
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and what reshaped your purpose? Yeah.
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So I I kind of like was dreaming to start my hedge funds.
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I read these books about like Warren Buffett and all these
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hedge fund managers. Warren Buffett.
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Yeah. He's finds a lot of people.
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Yeah. And I really want to like kind
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of like like start investing and and set up a hedge fund.
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And was it like a long, long idea?
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And then I kind of like pulled the trigger.
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I decided to leave my full time job, leave Moscow, go to the New
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York because New York is the best place where you need to set
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up a hedge fund. And so I moved my family and I
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had a plan. So I have like savings and I had
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a plan like West of hedge fund and I will leave for a while on
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my savings and then like kind of like it starts making some
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money. But actually it's turned out
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that like we couldn't open even the bank account when we opened
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the bank account for the hedge fund, we couldn't secure enough
5:28
investors. We just get a few, a few
5:30
millions under management and in just like, I know everything is
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just falling apart. I'm kind of start running out of
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the cash and it's just like my, my, my settings like depleting
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at a very high pace, especially in New York.
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And then the pandemic pandemic hit and I just like, so we like
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we went like to Virginia and like other states, like during
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the pandemic, just like not to be in New York.
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And I just was thinking, OK, how would I do next?
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It's just like I need to do something.
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And at at that time, I felt like my financial knowledge and
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expertise is kind of like, I know everyone, everyone kind of
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knows financials because for me it's kind of like very easier.
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It's just like, I don't think it's a very hard knowledge, but
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then you need like, I don't know, 10 years of experience to
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get this. But then, but then, but then I
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kind of, I was approached by, by my friend's father that was like
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in fundraising and that's what during the pandemic.
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And like he asked, like, can you help them to review like the
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like the financial documents that they kind of prepare for
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the fundraising? And I look at this and they said
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like it's the best like financial model that they ever
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like build. And when I look at this, it was
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like actually one of the worst that I've ever seen.
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So it was like completely like, like the first thing.
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That was it. Yeah.
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I told them like never sent this model to anyone again.
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Like just like don't send it to any potential investors, like
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because I think it's better to say that you don't have any
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financial model than send this one.
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And yeah. And I just like say like, OK, I
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can help you like to rebuild the financial model and the
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presentation and like charge them and well, like like a 2500
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or something. And then they agree.
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And I was like, OK, it seems like there's some work for me.
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I, I didn't think about this like in this way.
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And I just like, so I help them and like they like secure some
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funding. And then I start working with
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other kind of like more emerging companies, like a startup
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companies helping with the mostly with the fundraising.
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And then I realised that there's actually huge market, kind of
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like at that time, it didn't call a fractional CFO, but like
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when you're acting as a kind of like a in a CFO role, but like
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in part time capacity. And it was great.
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So like, but like, it took me like a few years actually figure
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out that there's a market for this service, but you need to
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target companies with the higher revenues.
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Like right now I'm working with company with at least like 3
8:09
million of revenue. And so it just like kind of like
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found this market and, and moving from the startups to the
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and this idea with the hedge fund.
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So this fund, it's actually right now it's shutting down and
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I left it to my partner and yeah, so this idea didn't work
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out. But actually I'm really happy
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because I think what I'm doing right now are really helping a
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lot of entrepreneurs with the financials and running their
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business. And I see like a lot of them
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don't really understand like financials very deeply.
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They don't drag, especially in the very beginning, like first
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time founders, first time business owners.
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They don't go deep. So I see the like kind of like I
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create the difference if they working with me or they don't
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working with me. Like I've seen like so many
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stories when people just like completely failed and I know
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file a personal bankruptcy because they just like didn't
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understand financials and didn't pay attention to the financials.
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So you found it so so to help entrepreneurs stay in business
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longer? Like not just to survive, but to
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thrive. And what?
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What's the biggest financial misconception that keeps good
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businesses in a state of crisis? I think the the main, what I see
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the biggest things like most of the founders or like business
9:30
owners, they think that they need money like they need
9:33
capital, additional capital like is that you hear it all the
9:35
time. All we just need to secure the
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funding or we need to find investors.
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But most of the cases if you if you're not going to launch, I
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don't know another, I know the competitor open AI or like an
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Uber, like you're in the very beginning for most of the
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businesses, you don't really need like a lot of money or like
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almost no, like you just need to find like a few customers that
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ready to pay you enough to gather your direct cost and like
10:01
your overhead. And I think like what most
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founders like business owners like don't really understand,
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like they either like don't have enough customers, just like to
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cover like the the expenses or they don't charge enough, like
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to cover the direct cost and they think they need more money.
10:20
And then I get more customers. But if your margins are not in
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place, you'll drive more customers.
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It's just like you still have no results.
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And I think it's like, I see it's like over and over again.
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And it's just like, I know it's sometimes it's pathetic.
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Like I, I meet people that running like a consulting
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business, like implementation of for example, for financial
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systems, it's like it's very lucrative business.
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It's like your margins is really good.
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You just find a client taking advance payment and start
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working on this implementation. And she just like literally it's
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like, first of all, it's very simple business.
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Second, you, you really like get some cash flow upfront and then
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you get the rest in the end or somewhere in between and you
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like your margins so high. It's just enough.
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And I even like from this business owners I hear like, oh,
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I need like more capital to hire the team on so on.
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Like you, you don't really hit the team.
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You just need like to get more clients, keep your margins.
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Assistant weighs your margins that will like can help you to
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grow like in higher the team and that's it.
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So I think it's the biggest thing that I see over and over.
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You have worked with companies from $3,000,000 to $35 million
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in revenue, so what's the pattern of financial mistakes
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you have seen these set of entrepreneurs make over time?
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Yeah, I see like the, the when, when they goals like beyond a
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certain limit like 2,000,003 millions, they really kind of
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like if they don't really hire someone, they kind of lose
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striking like what's happening, like where, where like what's
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the, what's again? What's the margins like?
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Like I know they look at the bank account and for example,
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they see like a substantial amount and they think they drink
12:12
OK, but this can be just intense payments from clients.
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But they need to fulfil the, the they need, they need to deliver
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a product to reserve and they need like money to do this.
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And they don't really like follow it.
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They don't really calculate the working capital.
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They like, don't really like if they don't have a financial
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procedures in place, they kind of like, I think it's just
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fully, it's all falling apart and they just completely losing
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like decide what's happening in terms of in terms of money.
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And I think like another thing I see over and over, it's like
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they think if they hire an accountant that they financial
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in place, but it's not just like it's it's not true.
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Like it's 100% is not true. First of all, you need to work
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with an accountant. You need to provide like all the
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like all the kind of like descriptions of all, all
13:07
transactions. You need to, if there's no any
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anyone like as a financial person on your team, like it's
13:13
one of the founders or like business owners doing like this
13:16
review of the accounting. And they usually don't do this.
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So like just quick look at, I know like once in, in, I don't
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know, a year, like before filing the taxes and it doesn't work.
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Like I can tell you I work even like if you're the most
13:30
professional accountants that like like very sophisticated
13:35
things, you still need to review their works because they can
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book certain transactions in a way that doesn't reflect the
13:42
business purpose these transactions.
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And then it's going like, you know, it's become a mess.
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And then you kind of like even if you have some financials, but
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they just, they like these financials don't represent like
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what's actually happened in the history.
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And then like you can you can project anything out of this.
13:57
So yeah, it's kind of like, yeah, it's what I see across all
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companies. They don't have any financial
14:04
person on their team. I appreciate what you said.
14:07
You know, especially with misrepresentation, you know, it
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leads to like a lot of adjustments, especially if
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you're going to bring in auditors to audit the
14:17
financials. And if you are not producing a
14:21
true or fair financial statement, you will be
14:25
misleading the users of financial information because
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users are financial information making informed to decisions,
14:32
right, based on the financial statements.
14:35
So it's always, it's always important to ensure that the
14:38
financial statements actually depict a true and Fairview of
14:42
the financial position and the financial performance of the
14:47
entity within that period of time.
14:51
So but for you as a fractional CFO, right what what is your
14:56
approach and how does it differ from the traditional finance
15:00
consulting or in house? Yeah.
15:03
I think like my main, main approach is, is kind of like
15:07
challenging to the founders. I think like it's, it's super
15:10
important, especially if you're fractional.
15:12
It's kind of like you should be an authority for them.
15:16
Otherwise, it's going to be kind of like like it's like I have
15:20
this approach. If they like it's, it's up to
15:23
them to make a final decision. It's like it's, it's, they call,
15:27
it's their business, it's their money.
15:28
It's like it's their life on the line, not mine.
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But I will put like any argument that I can put if I see this
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something's wrong is going on, I will like kind of like in detail
15:41
explain and it requires like multiple calls like with
15:45
different stakeholders, like trying to explain it's, I don't
15:48
know in, in pictures or in maps, like what is happening.
15:52
I will I will explain and try like to delivered this message
15:56
that like if you continue and to the base X or Y was that it will
16:01
end up in something way you don't want to be.
16:03
I think it's, it's the most important and what I see,
16:06
especially in one like accountants, like they start
16:09
offering like the fractional C4 service and they just not to
16:14
build. Like I can tell you even like
16:16
not really every C for like not really built like to go kind of
16:22
like arguing with the founders or business owners like you
16:26
need, you need to be very, very direct and honest and tell me
16:31
what is wrong. And I think it's just, it's the
16:34
biggest part of my approach. And, and another one is just
16:37
like helping them to get to reach the, the goal.
16:42
So it's like what's what they want to achieve?
16:43
It's going to be they want to buy a house or they want to pay
16:46
for the quality of the key. So they want to sell a business
16:50
in five years. So whatever is goal like just
16:53
helping them and prepare the business in terms of financials
16:57
and how it should be structured and what's the approach should
17:00
be like to achieve this goal? Because if you're building gauge
17:03
just to to get like an 1/2 a million dividends every year,
17:06
it's going to be completely different from I know selling
17:09
this business for X amount of money in five years.
17:12
So it can be different strategy and especially in terms of
17:15
financial. So let's talk about building
17:19
infallible businesses. So you often talk about building
17:25
infallible businesses. So what exactly does that look
17:28
like and how is it different from profitable or scalable
17:33
businesses? Yeah.
17:35
And my approach in in followable business is I kind of like
17:39
through my career, I identified like the the main reasons why
17:44
business kind of like falling And most of these you can at
17:48
least mitigate risk because like first of all, I know like the
17:52
the easiest one. And these are just like few
17:55
customers that company serves. And for example, like 1
17:58
customers I know take like, you know, 30% share of the revenue.
18:03
So if this customer leaves tomorrow, a company going to be
18:07
in in, in a really bad shape, right?
18:10
But you can prepare for this first of all, like if you
18:13
acknowledge this, you can trying to justify this.
18:16
Second, like you need to put a, a kind of like a mitigation
18:20
plan. What's going to happen if this
18:22
client will leave tomorrow, like, OK, you will have like 30%
18:26
less revenue. Like what's going to be gross
18:28
profit? What's going to be an operating
18:29
profit? Like what's going to be the cash
18:31
flow if this client leaves? And what you need to do to
18:35
adjust to this new, new like conditions.
18:38
And so when I look at this and say like, OK, probably right now
18:42
you have like 5 employees, but to prepare like for this
18:46
scenario, you probably need to change one full time employees
18:50
to the contractor. And and when, if it happens,
18:54
like if you lose this biggest customer, you can, you can
18:57
reduce the workload for this contractor or like reduce
19:00
completely. You don't need to pay these
19:02
contractors because there's less work because like these large
19:05
clients leaves. So like there, it's kind of like
19:08
a, it's kind of like a preparation.
19:09
It's like what can happen and then you kind of like you are
19:14
you are not just kind of waiting if it happens and then you do
19:17
something, but it's also very important because what I see
19:20
like, you know, something that's happened, but you have a great
19:23
team. You cannot fire anyone.
19:26
You kind of like you don't really you avoid like these hard
19:28
conversations. You love these people.
19:30
I know you've been working with them more than five years.
19:33
You look like a family. I know it's five people.
19:35
You think it's like deep morale and what I see like like what's
19:38
what's founders thing? I will find another client just
19:41
like substitute this losing revenue and there is like one
19:44
month pass, 2 month pass, three month pass like they they losing
19:48
money, then they're running out of the out of the cash and, and
19:53
business founders just like postponing this harsh decision
19:56
like to cut the to cut the, you know, like 2 persons from his
20:00
team. And I understand it's like it's,
20:02
it's like emotionally it's it's very difficult.
20:05
But even if you think about this, like, OK, what's I going
20:08
to do? What's I need to do if I lose
20:10
this biggest customer? It's already kind of changed his
20:13
mind because he was like, OK, he's will kind of like.
20:17
At least start thinking about this and kind of acknowledge
20:20
that if I'm losing this customer, probably I need to let
20:23
go like a few employees or one employee or like, I don't know,
20:26
something else. So like I know we need to kind
20:29
of like move, I don't know, like some expenses or stop doing kind
20:32
of all these like kind of like, I don't know, corporate tours or
20:36
something, right? It's just like, it's just like
20:38
start thinking in the right directions already help them.
20:41
And if they have a mitigation plan, it's already kind of like
20:45
it's not just about thinking, you know, if X happens, then I
20:49
will do like this exquisite actions.
20:52
And it's towards I think kind of most of the business can be
20:57
really, kind of like really resistant if they, if they think
21:00
about it and prepare them those plans.
21:03
Like in another example, I don't know, like let's say you have
21:06
like a larger supplier that provide, I know 80% of all your
21:10
cost of goods sold. And like what's happened if they
21:14
increase price, like, I don't know, 30% like overnight, right?
21:18
Like now we have like tariffs, right?
21:20
And like what will happen? But you can think about it not
21:25
when it happens, but like you can think about it in advance,
21:28
right? OK, if it happens, what's it
21:30
going to do? Do I have any, any backlog of
21:33
potential suppliers that can substitute this or at least kind
21:36
of like take some weight or like can I find like substitute a
21:41
component that I use right now? But I, I can probably use
21:44
another one that right now I'm probably 10% more expensive.
21:48
But if like this supplier increase price so I can switch
21:51
to this component, right? So like those things just really
21:55
help. But like founders don't really
21:57
think about it. They like they usually really
22:01
optimistic people, right? Like that's why they build
22:04
businesses and it's kind of like they don't really want to think
22:07
about any negative scenario that can happen.
22:10
But when you look at the business, I trying to define
22:13
like those vulnerable points like it's either, I don't know,
22:16
like deification. So revenue, it can be customer
22:20
acquisition cost, it can be, I don't know, one lead channel
22:23
that can hold produce the same results.
22:26
It can be, I don't know, like a few employees that generate, I
22:29
don't know, 80% of sales. So these are sometimes like most
22:33
of the time like those vulnerable points and you just
22:36
need to identify them and then think about mitigation plan how
22:41
you kind of like is it not completely element this risk,
22:44
but how you will prepare if something's it shows badly.
22:50
I appreciate you talking about the top decisions to be made
22:53
right, but remember what's the major difference between humans
22:58
and AI? The main difference between a
23:02
human in the air right now, yeah, I think it's easier.
23:07
It's just like not really not enough context.
23:11
Still it's it's very limited in terms of context and the
23:14
strategic thinking. Yeah, it's a slack of the
23:17
strategic thinking, but I think it's going to be better.
23:21
But I think it's still like in five years AI can substitute
23:27
like a low value task, but it's still gonna be a strategy and
23:33
and a certain part of creativity is still gonna be done by human
23:38
beings. OK, but one major difference is
23:42
the fact that AI is able to make decisions without emotions, but
23:46
humans are always locked with their emotions.
23:50
You talk about letting people go.
23:52
It's, it's, it's not so easy for for founders, you know, Yeah,
23:57
it's a community feel, a family feel.
24:00
Yeah, it's, it's true. It's true that.
24:02
Yeah, yeah, it's, yeah, it's. But I at least right now, yeah,
24:08
it doesn't have all the context, especially like to make
24:11
strategic decisions. So it's, it's hard, yeah.
24:13
But emotional, emotional component it's it's good and
24:17
bad, right. Like for example, like in sales,
24:20
it can help like to close a big deal, right.
24:22
That just base more on only on emotions and and I don't know if
24:28
yeah, I can kind of like pull triggers on certain emotions to
24:33
close the deal. Yeah, probably at some point in
24:35
the future. So how, how, how do you, how do
24:37
you navigate those difficult decisions, you know, in terms of
24:41
the advisory to to to those companies you.
24:45
Mean like a strategic decisions. Yes, in difficult strategic
24:48
decisions. It's I, I trying to get like,
24:52
first of all, I trying to understand like the competitive
24:56
landscape and like what they want, what they really want to
24:59
achieve. And, and then just like, OK,
25:03
like, like, like sit together and say like, OK, like what's
25:06
going to be what's going to be the, the, the result?
25:10
If we like make a certain decision, I know, let's say
25:13
plan, plan A and what's, what can come wrong, What's can be
25:19
kind of a good outcome of this plan.
25:21
And like just look at this and then discuss like pros and cons.
25:24
And then we'll kind of look at the Plan B and like also discuss
25:29
fronds and codes. So I kind of like looking from,
25:31
I think like I'm I'm the one that provide less emotional
25:35
things, right? Like I think like founders,
25:36
they're really emotionally tied to the business and everything.
25:40
I'm kind of looking at like from more objective lenses and like,
25:44
and I'm looking mostly for numbers and I speak in terms of
25:48
numbers. Like I said, like they say like,
25:50
I don't know, like I know recently we had these
25:52
discussions like what's the maximum we should pay for at
25:57
least like to open new, new stores.
25:59
And it's just like, yeah, we can, we can overpay like a
26:03
certain amount, but we like I know shouldn't go beyond this
26:06
because our assets effects like return on capital and return on
26:10
our investments and what we actually budget and what we
26:13
discussed before. So let's stick to this.
26:16
And it's kind of like, yeah, I think like the general framework
26:20
helps to, to make a strategic decision, but I, I just like
26:24
provide guidance and yeah. And and it's, it's, it's the,
26:28
it's the business owner state. It's they call.
26:31
But yeah, helping them with all this data.
26:35
So it's basically their call to make, but you are able to
26:39
navigate them and make them see the merits, the demerits of, you
26:43
know, the merits of taking that advice and of course the
26:46
demerits of not taking the advice.
26:48
But let's talk about the methodology.
26:53
So when you step into a business, what's your financial
26:56
trials tech lists, right? So what are the themes used can
27:02
first? Then why do you do that?
27:06
You mean for my business or the for the clients business?
27:10
Or your clients? Yes, for your clients.
27:16
The methodology is just like, yeah, as I said, like first of
27:20
all, look at look at the they personal goals and business
27:23
goals, because usually it's kind of like it's all goals together.
27:27
It's kind of like it's difficult to decouple them.
27:30
I try and really understand like those goals, but it's kind of
27:33
like well known in our fractional simple space, owners
27:36
can say like that they want like X amount of revenue or they want
27:41
like to reach like these things. But then they start like going
27:44
deeper and asking why, why, why do you want like 10 minutes of
27:47
revenue? Like what do you really want
27:49
from the business? And when we get like to
27:51
10,000,000, what's next? Like what's do you do next like
27:54
that? Do you want to stay as ACEO?
27:57
You want to you want to step down and so on.
27:59
So we're kind of going for this kind of strategic business
28:02
goals, personal goals. Then like we're starting from,
28:07
OK, you want like this goal, I know, let's say like I know sell
28:10
business in five years, like what we need to do.
28:13
Like we'll prepare like at this financial strategic plan where
28:16
we're looking, OK, given ways the business right now and all
28:20
the inputs like the margins, I know customer acquisition goals,
28:24
like all the direct cost, all the overheads, what do we have
28:27
right now, what we need to do to get to the point where, where
28:32
the business owners want to see it.
28:35
And then we're just like, OK, it's like, what do we need to
28:37
do? Like do we need to get more
28:39
debt? Do we need to get more equity?
28:41
Or probably we need less debt. Probably we need like, I don't
28:44
know, to repay some of that. Or probably like we have no debt
28:47
and we don't need any debt. We just need like, I don't know,
28:51
to invest more in the customer acquisition or probably we
28:54
probably we need like to invest less in customer acquisition
28:57
because like we don't need to grow as much as possible.
29:00
We need like extract more, more cash flow from the business and
29:04
optimise. So we kind of optimise certain
29:07
things and it's probably we need to invest less.
29:10
So we're kind of like preparing this strategic plan.
29:12
And, and then from strategic plan, we just prepare like a
29:15
short term budget, like I don't know, for six months, four
29:19
months, one year that depends on the business cycle.
29:22
And then just stick to this budget and see like month to
29:25
month. What's this changing forecast DS
29:30
like actual numbers and what's happening in the business?
29:33
Is there any kind of like serial serious considerable changes
29:37
which we need to implement in our long term strategic plan?
29:43
You did speak briefly about debt, right?
29:46
And you know that determines how leveraged an entity would be.
29:51
So from being a credit analyst, you know, to the job in private
29:58
equity and to a multi strategy fund managing that you have
30:04
lived through the finance trenches, you've seen it all,
30:08
done it all. Or what is it that entrepreneurs
30:12
don't understand the most about how the money world works?
30:17
You know, you would agree with me that a lot of entrepreneurs
30:20
see debt as a bad thing. Or really, what else is it that
30:25
they misunderstand about how the money works and it's gone?
30:30
Yeah, I think like what I've seen if, if I look at the like
30:35
I've seen more than 1000 businesses like a small, average
30:39
and large. And if I look at the the biggest
30:42
reasons why they, I know defaulted to bankruptcy or they
30:47
completely failed. If they reach a certain point,
30:52
it's usually dead like because they as like what's happening
30:57
during the like during the economic boom, when I know the
31:04
economy is growing, they like the revenue is growing and
31:08
usually the margins is also improving and they they get kind
31:13
of OK, so everything is good. We need to grow even faster.
31:16
We need to get that like their muscle power for finishes on the
31:20
market. We need to capture them and they
31:22
getting that. And even like like some of them
31:25
just like basically over leverage.
31:27
I know they go like, I think like when you go beyond like I
31:31
know 6 EBITDA, it's like it's already kind of like over
31:35
leverage. You have like too much debt.
31:37
And even if you don't go over leverage, like I've seen stories
31:41
when you have, I don't know, like manageable debt like I know
31:44
for EBITDA. But and another thing is
31:47
actually like during the economic expansion, this debt is
31:51
cheap. Usually the interest rate is low
31:53
and the debt is low risk is low, like Banksy less defaults and
31:59
the interest rate they take for deals and they kind of like
32:04
lowering the rate. But when you face the recession,
32:08
these two things happen. Actually, three things happening
32:12
at the same time. Your revenue start falling, your
32:15
margins start falling. So like, I know you're losing
32:18
like 30% of revenue, but you don't losing like 30% of your
32:22
EBITDA, you're losing more than 50% because your margin is also
32:26
going down. Like the market becomes like
32:29
more competitive. You need to reduce the price or
32:32
like certain cost increase and it's just like you're losing.
32:35
And then on top of the banks usually increase the, the
32:39
especially if it's like a floating rate on your debt is
32:42
like your, your interest rate is going higher.
32:46
And I've seen that it just like this kind of like factors like
32:51
if you, if you're really good at negotiation and your financial
32:55
institutions, your banks Oregon, like your lenders like can
33:00
discuss like restructuring, like it's kind of good to come.
33:03
You just restructuring and waiting for the better times.
33:06
And then you kind of like reduce your debt.
33:08
But I've seen like really, really good stable businesses
33:12
because they will like kind of like leverage up to, you know,
33:15
for EBITDA during the recession. So they just like, I don't know,
33:18
fail bankruptcy or they sold the business for just like a very
33:23
small amount. And yeah, I think like the debt
33:27
that is a really good instrument.
33:28
But you know, again, like what I said, like this infallible
33:32
framework, you need to play out this scenario when you take the
33:35
debt, like what's going to happen if your revenue reduce
33:39
substantially, few margins reduce like like where you're
33:42
going to IU will be able like to serve the debt and stick to the
33:46
repayment schedule that you have right now.
33:49
If the answer is yes, you can take that, that that can be, you
33:53
know, it can be is a good thing, but and you can grow faster, but
33:57
you need to be really, really diligent.
34:00
And another thing with the debt, I think like it's, it's
34:04
happening for smaller companies. They don't have a proper
34:07
financials. They don't really understand
34:08
what's happening in terms of financials.
34:10
I mentioned before, like they have like this an accountant,
34:13
but they speak with them and once a year like they don't
34:16
really. And then they give like these
34:18
financials to the bankers and bankers can make like a wrong,
34:22
wrong decision based on these financials, but you're actually
34:26
state of your financials. This can be way worse than like
34:30
what's accountant prepares and you don't know, you don't know
34:33
what's happening in your business in terms of financials.
34:35
Yeah. So it's kind of like I think two
34:37
things that you need to consider before taking any debt, you need
34:41
to have a proper financials before taking any debt.
34:46
That is well said. Proper financials before taking
34:49
debt, right, ensure to monitor the the leverage, right, so that
34:54
you don't go beyond the the standard of safe for EBITDA,
35:00
right. Yeah.
35:01
So yes. So, so that way you're not
35:03
overly leveraged. So your experience across
35:09
Russia, Europe and the US, how's that shaped your financial
35:13
worldview and like what insights from the global markets and not
35:18
just global markets, the global market leaders or the US?
35:22
Right, I think. I think, how's it again?
35:25
I think in the US market is, is the most developed in terms of
35:29
financial instruments, investors and so on.
35:31
So it's like it's clear and I think like the risk tolerance is
35:36
higher. So I think it's kind of like
35:38
impeded in DNA of the country and you can see it's like
35:42
there's just like so many instruments, so many kind of
35:45
like new financing options and so on.
35:48
And I think like Europe is just in terms of the approach, like
35:52
way more conservative. And it's just, yeah, I think
35:57
it's just, yeah, it's kind of like the mentality.
36:00
Of course there is, because like the economy is not comparable,
36:03
right? Like the US is the largest
36:05
economy in the world. But even like if you look
36:08
certain approaches, I think like European financials and lenders,
36:12
they just kind of like way more conservative.
36:17
The Washington Post called you an AI super user.
36:24
What does that mean in your day-to-day financial work?
36:28
Yeah, I'm, I'm embracing AI and and I just like like I think
36:34
like people kind of like into kind of spectrums.
36:37
They I believe AI will just like change everything just in a few
36:41
months or like others think like AI just kind of like just like
36:46
this meaningless innovation. So I kind of use AI every day
36:51
and I know like all throwbacks and weights, not really good,
36:55
but I also it helps me a lot. And I can see I can tell you
36:59
that in terms of financials right now, it's already really,
37:02
really good with analysing the data.
37:04
It's not sure, still not not really good with the producing
37:09
new data. For example, I use it a lot for
37:11
financial forecast and it's not really good.
37:14
It's kind of like you need to work a lot.
37:16
It's not like you just like put a certain inputs and then you
37:19
get like a perfect forecast. No, it doesn't work like that.
37:22
But in terms of analysing data, it's really, really good.
37:25
It's helping to support like, I don't know, seasonality certain
37:28
things. Just write like these simple
37:30
financial analysis and like give certain advices or like finding
37:36
like you upload the general Ledger and finding is the double
37:40
double spending, double transactions or like it's kind
37:44
of like a misstatements and so on.
37:48
So it's it's really good. But yeah, in terms of producing
37:51
something even like reconciling kind of like an accounting work,
37:55
it's still kind of lacking. You need to review it and it
37:59
does make mistakes and it doesn't produce consistent
38:02
results. So I think it's very important,
38:04
especially for corporates. Like I use the same chats, the
38:08
same prompts, the same structure of the file, and it cannot
38:13
produce the same results like month or over a month.
38:16
Yeah, I think it's the way it's struggling.
38:18
But I believe that like accounting is going to be
38:23
replaced by for, I don't know, for 80% of the work right now
38:28
because a lot of this just reconciliation just like have
38:31
one Excel file and have another Excel file and we need to
38:35
reconcile and all this revenue, these expenses, there's a
38:38
certain things and I think AI eventually is going to be
38:41
really, really good at this. Interesting.
38:43
It's really interesting to see the potentials of AI.
38:46
Yeah, like you rightly said, it's quite good with processing
38:49
historical information, but not very good at processing
38:54
forward-looking information right now.
38:56
But I think there's hope a lot of for the future because of the
38:59
accelerated speed at which the machine learning takes place.
39:05
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, for these large
39:08
language models. But talking about the human side
39:11
of the data, during the pandemic you went from 150K to 0 USD and
39:18
you had to rebuild with your family in a foreign country.
39:22
What did that teach you about the emotional weight of money
39:26
and how has that shipped? How you have set your client
39:29
now? Yeah, I kind of like, I think
39:33
like I built resilience and I kind of like understand like
39:37
entrepreneurs, founders way better because I think it's
39:40
still it's a very, very different mentality than your
39:44
full time employee. And then you own on your own.
39:47
It's just like it's it's kind of like it's completely different.
39:50
And I think like it's a good thing.
39:53
Like, you know, people kind of people think that if they leave
39:58
their job, like I know they disappointed they boss or they
40:01
disappointed with the procedures in the companies.
40:04
You know, it's like when you when you meet people with full
40:07
time jobs, they usually complain about something right like this.
40:11
It's like that something's wrong.
40:13
But they think if they leave, it's kind of like all those
40:16
issues go gone away and but but it's not, it's just like.
40:22
I think it's just you take like the full responsibility for your
40:25
life on your own because like when you're complaining, you
40:27
just like give your urgency to your employer or your boss.
40:32
Like you kind of like you put this that not you're responsible
40:36
for your life, but somebody else and they make a reasonable when
40:40
you're on your own, there's nobody like to blame.
40:43
It's just it's you. It's either you can make it or,
40:46
or it's not. And it's just like, I think it's
40:49
a it's a really good exercise, but I don't think it's for
40:53
everyone. I just like, I see people like,
40:55
it's just like mentally you should be really, really, really
40:58
strong. It's just like, and it's either
41:00
time that you can make it or you can become stronger or like you
41:04
just like you, you can't, you can do this.
41:06
And it's just, yeah, it's I think and you need to change to
41:10
like these things that I don't know.
41:11
I've never thought like to go back like kind of full time job,
41:17
like after certain time I know like I need to continue whatever
41:20
it takes. Make or break.
41:22
I was waiting for that, that mental resilience.
41:26
You know, if you're mentally weak, it, it will break you
41:28
definitely bar I'm glad you you found that mental strength to,
41:34
to ride the, the, the wave. You know, in life we have the
41:39
peaks, we have the troughs. When you have the troughs, you
41:42
need that mental resilience, mental strength to to ride it
41:45
out. So for most business owners,
41:49
they avoid the hard money talks until it's too late, like you
41:53
rightly said. So how can this shift, you know,
41:56
from fear to financial confidence?
42:00
Yeah, I think it's just like, I think because I've seen like so
42:06
many times when like founders like like they don't make like a
42:10
right decision, especially when it's hard.
42:12
And yeah, like they kind of postpone the hard decisions or
42:16
they make like the wrong decisions.
42:18
Kind of like I feel confident that OK, it's time for me to
42:21
step in and kind of like explain their like what they need to do
42:26
otherwise it's gonna be like a horrible consequences of this.
42:29
And yeah. And I think like, I think
42:32
especially it's different from first time founders, business
42:35
owners and like second time, third time, it's kind of like
42:38
they they already like already went from this.
42:41
They know it's like in cycles. And I think it's, it's important
42:46
to understand this. It's kind of like it's going to
42:48
be black and white, right? Like like even like not even in
42:52
start of work. It's just like in a business
42:54
normal. It's kind of like, yeah, it's,
42:57
it's good one day. And then it's like, I don't
42:59
know, like horrible two months of the business.
43:02
But as you go for this, like I think you get more skills and,
43:08
and more emotional kind of like you, you can get for this.
43:12
And, and I will tell not really emotionally not too much
43:17
attached to the results right now.
43:21
It's just like thinking about like long term.
43:23
It's just like like, yeah, don't let like those swings of
43:27
emotions like lead you to the wrong decision, especially
43:32
business decisions. It's, it's just, yeah, it's kind
43:36
of, I think like like 2 emotional people for them, it
43:39
would be really, really hard to run a business like they need to
43:42
manage like those cycles, right? Otherwise it's going to be, they
43:46
have a sales call and it's went totally wrong.
43:50
They lost these potential clients and it can ruin the day
43:53
or day week. They need kind of like get used
43:56
to this. It's just, it's part of the
43:57
process and you just need to go get for this, right?
44:00
And yeah. So we are going to end this
44:06
session with a quick fire round. So you are going to have a few
44:13
questions, five of them. So just be real, relatable and
44:19
reflective. Are you ready?
44:22
Are you ready to rumble? Yeah, yeah, I'm ready.
44:25
Let us go. You know, we've, we've got
44:29
really great fighters out of Moscow.
44:30
You know Russia is known for the great fighters.
44:35
Khabib. Khabib the Maghmed of it says
44:38
Russia 150,000,000. Irish 6,000,000.
44:42
Don't try this tomorrow, I'm gonna smash your guy.
44:47
By the way, do you watch MMA at all?
44:49
Yeah. And I'm just watching like no
44:52
brief here and I don't, I don't really follow it yet.
44:55
OK, OK. Yeah, but but you guys have got
44:57
great fighters. Khabib, you've got a Volkov.
45:00
Alexander Volkov, you've got like.
45:02
Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of them here.
45:05
Mofsa Evloev as well. Yeah, he's a great guy.
45:09
He's a great guy. Wow, So number 11 financial
45:13
ratio every founder should understand today.
45:18
With financial, just check the the fundamentals, check your
45:21
accounting, understand like what is happening, just check if your
45:25
accountant or yourself like where you're right now in terms
45:28
of financials. OK, a personal money mistake you
45:33
learnt the most from. The most I learned from Trust
45:39
your instincts and don't make business with people you don't
45:42
really trust and don't really like.
45:45
You can forecast day day behaviour.
45:48
You know it can be bad. Nice, nice, nice.
45:52
I love that. So this is a hard 1.
45:56
Austin or Moscow, Yes, the better feud and better finance
46:00
vibe. I don't.
46:02
Know it's I think it's better yeah watch them is growing.
46:06
Whoa, don't go back to Moscow. OK so what's 1 boob or think
46:15
that shipped your money mindset? They saw a book by Munger, I
46:22
forgot the name. Yeah, but it's, it's a it's a
46:24
really good one. Another one is never enough and
46:30
it's a locking son. And yeah, it's also really,
46:33
really, really good. It's like it's telling about
46:36
like this mentality that like it's never enough.
46:40
It's just like even like rich people, they kind of like kind
46:43
of they have like a gorgeous house at like 10 millions and
46:46
they still think it's not enough because they neighbour have this
46:49
like 50 million mansion. And compared to them, they feel
46:53
like, I don't know, poor and and kind of like not really realise
46:58
they they potential. And and I think it's kind of
47:01
it's and I think it illustrate really good.
47:03
If you can enjoy your coffee in the morning, you can enjoy your
47:07
yacht, right? It's just like it's going to be
47:09
the same, kind of like resentment.
47:13
So fill in the blank. An entrepreneur is successful
47:16
when they. When the success successful
47:22
when? Yeah, like when they do what?
47:25
What does what does an entrepreneur have to do to be
47:29
successful? What's that one thing I.
47:32
Think like just just enjoy what he's doing.
47:35
I think it's, it's the, the, the most important part.
47:39
I see business, business owners sometimes forget why they're
47:42
doing it. And of course, like the money is
47:44
a, is a big, it's a big kind of like thing.
47:46
But I think like most especially up to after a certain level,
47:51
it's just like, I don't think it's about money and you need to
47:54
enjoy it. And I think like a lot of a lot
47:56
of founders to really forget how to enjoy doing business.
48:00
And so like, they kind of like always seem stressed about
48:03
certain things. Interesting so I'm very big on
48:07
gratitude and I always say that gratitude is good attitude and
48:11
the SI you need for measuring life is time.
48:14
So if somebody shares their life, their time with you,
48:17
they're sharing their life with you.
48:18
Of course. Thank you very much, you know
48:20
for sharing your time and your life with us today on the
48:23
podcast. I know you have a website,
48:26
right? So if your founder out there,
48:30
you're looking to finally understand your numbers and stop
48:33
losing sleep over cash. Cheque out.
48:36
Stan's expert guidance at the sorso.com, right?
48:42
Yeah, Slash get started and get clear on your path forward.
48:46
So how else can our viewers connect with you?
48:51
Yeah, I'm, I'm on LinkedIn and Twitter.
48:53
So on LinkedIn it's Stan, Stan Sukhinian.
48:57
And on Twitter, yeah, you can find me.
49:00
And I write every day. Oh wow.
49:03
On on Twitter. Yeah.
49:06
That's X now x.com, right? Is that correct?
49:10
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For me, it's still Twitter.
49:13
Yeah, for me, it's still Twitter.
49:15
So do you want to leave a shout out for anybody before you
49:18
leave? I think I follow you on
49:19
LinkedIn. So yeah, we can collaborate.
49:21
Are you on Instagram at all? No, yeah I have Instagram but
49:25
I'm not really active so I'm posting.
49:28
Thanks. Yeah, I'm posting everyday on X
49:30
and LinkedIn. OK, OK.
49:33
We'll collaborate on X and LinkedIn then.
49:35
So do you want to say a shout out to anybody before you leave?
49:40
Yeah, I think it's a great here just yeah, let me know if
49:43
there's anything that I can help.
49:46
So just yeah, it's never like it's never matter what stage you
49:52
are. Like what do you want?
49:53
Like you're just like thinking to start your own business or
49:57
like I don't know, kind of like in the middle of something or
50:00
like considering something. It's just like feel free to
50:03
reach out me and like I would love to help.
50:09
Hey, thank you very much. It's lovely having, you know,
50:11
selfless human beings like you who love to help and of course,
50:15
love and respect to you. Thank you very much for your
50:18
time on the show today. And for our viewers, please like
50:22
subscribe, support, join the channel.
50:26
And of course, I'll keep working tirelessly to bring in fantastic
50:30
individuals like Stan to make the show stand.
50:34
Let us go bye. Thank you.