Latest / Brands, Beats & Bytes / Album 4 Track 13 – Geoff Cottrill, Chief Marketing Officer at Topgolf

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Album 4 Track 13 – Geoff Cottrill, Chief Marketing Officer at Topgolf · Brands, Beats & Bytes

• DC: Okay. Brand Nerds. We're grateful for those of you who have listened to this podcast Brands, Beats, and Bytes. This is our 100th episode. So for that say thank you to you all for allowing us to get to 100, but nothing becomes big unless it starts small. So we started at number one and today we actually have with grace, with the gentleman who started this all off with us at number one. So three years ago, Larry Taman LT, as you all have come to know him on this podcast had an idea. He said, you know, I think we should do a podcast. I think we should do it outta Stanford University. So this is idea his idea. And then we had a friend, actually, it was Larry's friend, Tom Dioro, who we affectionately called the Pod-father. By the way, I stole that from Jalen rose. Okay. Jalen Rose first said Pod-father. So Jalen rose home, what up do homeboy got it from him. So he talked to Tom, Tom was already doing podcasts at Stanford. So they, they, they talked, they talked, they chopped it up. And then next thing you know, here we are sitting on Stanford's campus in their studio about to record our first podcast. Now we had no idea if it would work or not. And so when you're starting something, you wanna put yourself in the best possible position to have a second of the first. And so the first for us was my boy, my family, a marketing savant. So I, I talked to Larry and Jeff about it. He said, yes, he's the perfect one. And so here we are three years later with episode number 100. And as it was approaching, I had the same thought again, we can't go past 100 without going back to who was number one who set this whole thing off. So we had him set us, set us off on single digits. He's now set us off on triple digits and I'm letting him know now when we get to 1000, we coming right back at you. Coming right back at you. So LT, with all of that. Please tell the Brand Nerds about my family. Who's in the building with us again today. LT: Oh DC. That's so, so great. We all might be in assisted living together for that a thousandth episode, but anyway, we have Geoff Cottrill back in the house today. Welcome, Geoff! Geoff Cottrill: Oh man. It's great to be here. What an honor to be here for show number 100. That is it's awesome. LT: So yeah, Geoff we're we're so, it's sublime a little bit, man, that we thinking about as DC painted that picture, we were walking on Stanford's campus and like, do we really belong here? Like, is this gonna happen? And then here we are, you know turning the page on 100. So we thought nothing better than to bring you back on and because, because of who you are and what you do. There's nothing better than for us to turn that triple digits with you. So, Geoff, we gotta give you your props and honestly, since it was three years ago, it, your, your intro needs an update, anyway. So we are gonna give the Brand Nerds a little uh, our, our uh, brands beats and bites intro for you. So DC: Sprinkle them flowers on a brother, flowers on him. LT: That's right. We're gonna start at the beginning. So, you know, Geoff learns the power of brands and beats at the rip age of 13. He's told us about this. I love this. When he becomes a fountain Coke vendor in Tampa Stadium. Mainly so he could go see rock concerts for free. And yeah, he got paid a little bit doing it, but he really did see the power of what we call the brands, both in terms of Coca-Cola as well as all these wonderful acts that came through Tampa Stadium and obviously the culture and beats portion of that. So for college, Geoff makes his way to Florida State University, where he earns a BS in economics and like many successful marketers, geoff gets his start at Proctor and Gamble in a variety of sales and marketing world. Now Brand Nerds, in our opinion, there is not a better place to really learn the fundamentals of marketing than P&G. And Geoff thrives there for 10 years. Really? DC: None. No place better. LT: There's no, no place better. Right. To get that foundation D, right. Yeah. So, but then if you're gonna get another foundation, because while P&G is amazing, they are quite left brain oriented, right? Mm-hmm . So then Geoff makes another fantastic move, which we know gets him closer to his passion for music, where he joins the Coca-Cola company as Group Director of Entertainment Marketing, where he helps many brands, emotionally connect with consumers, through music and entertainment. And a lot of times in collaboration with my great partner DC here. So D, Geoff has now worked at two of the best consumer marketing companies in the world. And what's cool about Geoff is he now knows he can apply his great learnings in real marketing leadership positions going forward post. P&G and Coke. So check it out, Brand Nerds, Geoff leaves, Coke, and goes to Starbucks where he becomes VP of product and marketing for Starbucks Entertainment. And after a very successful stint there, he then move makes a real upward move, becoming CMO and GM of the legendary sneaker brand Converse. Mm-hmm . So after eight plus years of unprecedented growth of Converse. He then makes another move and becomes president of renowned agency MullenLowe, which all, DC: Hey, Hey. Hey Larry, can I just say this real quick? About, about, I'm sorry. I know you on your flow brother. Okay. LT: So all good. DC: Okay. So G-Money, when he joined Converse, they lost their swag. They no longer had their swag that forgot about their roots. G-Money comes in, connects them back to their swag, gets them deep into culture. Works with Rob Stone and John Cohen over at Fader and Cornerstone, and then does something called Rubber Tracks Studios, where artists can come and record. Not because they got a shout out Converse, but simply because Geoff has a love for artistry and music and allows these artists to express themselves in a world class studio that many of them could not touch without Rubber Tracks. And so that then turned that company and brand around. And there was a point, I don't know if it's still the G-Money. You have to tell us later where there were two things that were at the top of search, like the most searched in the world. So one of them was Coca-Cola. And the second was Converse behind what this brother did. So I just wanted to add that little bit of data in about my main. Please proceed. LT: I'm so glad you added that in. You gotta give it, give it that flavor, which isn't just eight plus years of unprecedented growth you gave the underpinnings of it. Awesome. Mm-hmm all right. So after a Converse, Geoff goes to become president of renowned agency Mullen low, which those of us in the business know is a great agency. DC: Mm-hmm LT: up in Boston. So, okay. Check this out. Brand Nerds, now he gets a call to come back home, be Head of Marketing at Coca-Cola north America, where he leads the strategic vision for all marketing channels and sports and entertainment properties for all Coca-Cola brands. And that's the last time G-Money as D affectionately calls him was on Brands, Beats, and Bytes. So now we got the update, so mm-hmm after. So, so Geoff decides to leave Coca-Cola and not right away, but soon after he's being introduced to Top Golf, by getting lessons at their Top Golf Midtown facility in Atlanta. And that gets Geoff incredibly curious, and again, I encourage those to go back and listen to the number, the first episode where you could really, really get that. And Geoff becomes eventually the CMO of Top Golf Entertainment Group, and as CMO Geoff leads all aspects of Top Golf's marketing player, experience, design partnerships, consumer insights, communications, and charitable giving across all business units, including global venues, top tracer technology, and Top Golf media. Lastly, Geoff currently sits on the advisory boards of several emerging music and technology companies. He also recently joined the board of Giving Kitchen and the board of the Georgia Music Accord, a nonprofit dedicated to building a Grammy Museum in good old Atlanta with all that said Brand Nerds. We know you're really gonna love this one. Welcome back to Brands, beats and Bytes, Geoff Cottrill. Geoff Cottrill: Thanks. It's it's great to be back I that man, it's crazy. When you go through all that stuff, you just went through my life in 10 minutes, but , it's, it's amazing. It just is amazing when you, when you talk about all those stops, I've had. Just it, what, what floods in my mind are all the great people that I had a chance to work with and get to know and all the people that taught me. That's what floods my mind when you, when you go through that list of places. LT: That's awesome, Geoff. Geoff Cottrill: Yeah. DC: Mm. Alright. G-Money. Before we get to the get comfy section, which you and I really don't need to do, I need to drop something on the Brand Nerds. So Brand Nerds, I met G-Money when I was at Coke, but I hadn't worked with him. I'd seen his work. I was aware of his work. So now he and I have a chance to work together. And sometimes you, you think, you know, what's going on with someone, but you don't really know until you get close to them. And so one of another, one of our guests on the show has a, has a saying about content. His name is Oren. About content, the most compelling content, whether it's in TV or film or podcast or book it is this. The stuff you don't know about the stuff, you know, that's a quote from Oren. The stuff you don't know about the stuff, you know. That's why behind the music and things like that grab you because you think, you know, what's going on with The Clash, but until like somebody dives deep into a documentary, then you go, oh, I didn't know that. Okay. This was my experience with G-Money. Okay. It, it was the stuff I didn't know about the stuff I knew. So with everyone else on on, on the team, I had meetings. With G-Money, we had ciphers. So we would literally sit down, in his office or mine and we would just chop stuff up. And when we would travel together, it was our dinners, our lunches, our, our brunches, our breakfast time together, where we really started to conjure stuff. And Larry mentioned this up front. He started his career working in fountain. Selling Coca-Cola fountain drinks at Tampa Stadium because he wanted to see concerts. He wanted to experience concerts. So at his core, he's a music dude, which brings me to this question. You talked G-Money about the wonderful job that Larry did covering your career in 10 minutes. Some people, Geoff, they are where you were when you were walking across the stage as a Seminole. They hope they're gonna get a job, G-Money, but they don't know. They hope they're gonna make a career out of, of, of what they've done, but they don't know. You've actually done it. So there's a two part question here. First, how did you navigate this career of yours brother? And the second is what role did music play in the navigation of your career? You have the floor, my brother. Geoff Cottrill: Boy, those are two. Those are two great questions. I, I went to Florida state and I was an average student. I was involved in a lot of things on campus. And I was recruited by P&G. And when I actually got the call from P&G when I was in college, I thought it was my roommate playing a joke on me. I literally thought my roommate was playing a practical joke, like how. P&G doesn't want me. So it's funny. My parents taught me a couple things when I was young. Be good to people. Have a positive attitude. And I have tried to live my life by those simple, common sense things that my parents taught me. So I think a lot of my career is just, is just unfolded in front of me because I have been curious, positive mm-hmm and good to people. And most people have been good to me back. And I think it was, I, I couldn't tell you, there's not a playbook for navigating my career. My career's gone, you know, up, down sideways, backwards, forwards, and around in circles. Yeah. But it's just been my constant desire to learn more and to push and to experience more things. So I was very fortunate to be hired by P&G, had a great time there incredibly fortunate to go to Coke. You know, I think I learned how to market products to P&G and I learned how to market brands at Coke. LT: Wow. Say that again, please. Cause that that's, we're talking about the left and right brain. That huge thing. Geoff Cottrill: Yeah. Yeah. LT: Incredibly well said. Geoff Cottrill: P&G's so well known for for marketing. I mean, they, they're, they're a product company at heart. Like they are, they build, they make great products yeah. That improve your life, improved parts of your life, whatever that part, however small it may be. Yep. And it's about the product and I got to Coke and I learned quickly that it was about the brand and about the image and about the idea and about the dream and about what could be and about painting a picture. And I was fortunate to be able to work with people like DC. I was fortunate to work with people like Steve Conan yeah. Who, who really sort of got me to really think differently. Mm-hmm and I think as a result, you know, my, my first couple jobs at Coke was I started in sports marketing and I was doing a bunch of stuff in sports and I saw that no one was doing anything in music really. Our agencies were licensing music for commercials and stuff. And then I got the opportunity. I worked on a team that we converted Universal Studios from Pepsi to Coke, and it was the, the theme parks, the film studio and the record company. And they're like, Geoff, it's yours, go get it, figure it out. So I just jumped in and figured it out. And I thought, well, gosh, I get to meet people in the music business. This is gonna be kind of cool. And it's kind of a side hustle. I just started meeting people in labels, started with the Universal Music Group, but then expanded and started meeting people in music, just cuz I'm super interested in the business of music. Like when I was a kid, my look, I, it never occurred to me to join a band or learn how to play an instrument. Or, or like it was always, the business of music was super interesting to me. So that's, that's what I was, you know, super interested in doing. So it just sort of, as a side hustle at work, suddenly I was talking to the senior executive one day and telling him all the stuff I was doing. And he was like, what, what do you mean you're doing all that? And I'm like, well, no one else is doing it. I just figured somebody needed to do it. So I'm doing it. So as a result on that day, I got promoted from what I was doing to the Head of Entertainment Marketing for the company globally. And then the music stuff just continued to sort of music and film and celebrity and TV and all that, you know, American Idol and Harry Potter. And, but music was the thing that was always super interesting to me. And I had the opportunity to work with, with DC. And we created a a tour for Sprite called Liquid Mix. And it brought, it was an early, when it was still back in the day when genres were really important and very distinct and different from one another. And you were like, as a person, you were like, this is my genre. And today like, woo, there are no barriers. Like there, there are still genres, but it's like, you're not defined by that anymore. So we saw something coming where it's like, look, rock and hip hop are very different genres, but they share a spirit mm-hmm and we should bring hip hop and rock together in a tour. And we did, and the dream was like, maybe, you know, Jay-Z will do a, do a song with, you know, one of the rock bands and, and it was just super fun. And it was at a time when Aerosmith was doing what they were doing, you know, it was just, it was just, it was super, super fun. It was, it was a great time in my life. So yeah. LT: And it was a time the music business, what you talk about change, right? Like, yeah, that was the, the reset button. It doesn't do justice to what was going on in the music business then Geoff Cottrill: For sure. I mean, Napster free download, everything was going crazy. The, the music industry was imploding. I was an early adopter on the iPod and I remember bringing it to the president of Coke saying, we gotta get on this mm-hmm and we should do something with the people in Cupertino that this is really interesting. And I remember the President of Coke telling me apple has a two share in computers. They're they're they're not worth working with. LT: Oh God. Geoff Cottrill: And I said, yeah, yeah, they are, we should go work with them and we should, we should partner with them. And that we that's a whole nother story maybe for a whole nother podcast, but it didn't work out. And I think when. That was the first time I left Coke when I was a bit disillusioned with, hey, the world really is changing. The music industry is really changing and we don't see it. And I can't, I can't just sit here and watch these things change. So I had the opportunity to go to Starbucks work for Howard Schultz and, and work on their record label for for a handful of year, for three years. It was really fun. LT: So D if you don't mind me following up with... DC: Oh please, brother. LT: Geoff, because I think, no, this is D ask you that question, what role music played, which is awesome. I think also, Geoff, if you think about the Brand Nerds, we were listening, the younger folks. You know, it's IM I always give, I was a BA I'm a like you're music at heart. I'm a basketball hard. I played ball growing up. I coached. And so I go to basketball metaphors, and I, when I was at five star basketball camp, Huby Brown did a, a one hour lecture on when to pass. DC: Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Geoff Cottrill: Amazing. LT: Okay. Yeah. And that's a metaphor though, for where I'm going. That was my little tangent. Because when did you know when to pass the offer? And when to say, nope, I'm shooting, I'm going from Coke to Starbucks or Starbucks to Converse because you know, when you start your career, I think all of us were very fortunate that we had all really good starts of a career. And you get calls from recruiters all the time. Right. And you get, and, and, you know, you'll meet people. Like you said, Geoff, you have meetings with the, with the folks at Apple Cupertino, and you have meetings with different people. And I know for me, and I know for DC, I don't obviously don't know user, but I know for us, we've had meetings with people and they've said you should come work for us. Right. That that's happened to all of us. So when did you know when to pass and went to shoot? How did you decipher that? Geoff Cottrill: It's a great question. I think it's just always been it it's, it's funny. Most of the places I've gone have been through relationships I've built along the way. LT: Got it. Geoff Cottrill: Like, I, I went to Starbucks because I knew someone that was there. That was running entertainment that I had worked with as an outside business partner when I was at Coke, he recruited... LT: got it. Geoff Cottrill: I serendipitously met a recruiter who led me to Nike and Converse. And then it just sort of has, has, has gone from there. I think you just come to a place where you see that maybe your mindset is growing faster than the place that you are. LT: Interesting. Geoff Cottrill: And you think it's time to go, or I'm going to be stuck thinking this way for the rest of my life. It, it, it's, it's kind of a, in hindsight, it's kind of a funny thing. You, you sit there and you're like, wow, this, I don't think that this place is giving me the opportunities to learn that I, that I want and to grow and to continue to expand. And this is the way they think. And I don't necessarily think that way. So I've just been, I've been very, very, very fortunate. I consider myself to be the luckiest marketer. Some people have said, you know, given me all kinds of accolades about me being a great marketer, I'm just a lucky marketer who is, who's been able to work with some really great people. That's what I, that's what I think I am. LT: Well, we, we appreciate your humility and you are lucky, but there's you gotta be good. You gotta be good to do what you did at Converse. You gotta, you have to be good to do the things that you've done. So we appreciate that. D, I know you're chomping at the bit there. DC: Yo, appreciate the humility G-Money. Something that I witnessed you do. And I marveled at it as you and I were in the cipher together that has been a hallmark of your career. And I'd like you to talk a bit about this, after I break this down for the Brand Nerds is you're fearless brother. You're fearless. So here we are, it's 2002 is when we're talking about putting this Sprite Liquid Mix Tour together. And and so G-Money's the lead on this, and he's working with CAA and at the time Brand Nerds, as Geoff has said, genres were not brought together. Music was highly segregated. LT: Mm-hmm. DC: And so G-Money's putting his tour together. So let me just break down for you. Some of the artists that this brother brought together. So the house band was The Roots. You might know The Roots now because they have been on, on like late night TV for the last decade. All right. 311 was a rock group. They, they were co-headlining. I'm gonna get to another headliner in, in, in a moment. We had early NERD, Pharrell Williams. So Pharrell wasn't Pharrell as he is now. We had NERD. We had a group called Hoobastank. I am not kidding. OK. Rock group called Hoobastank. We had the Nappy Roots, southern hip hop. Geoff Cottrill: Kentucky boy. DC: He had Most Def and Talib Kweli. Wow. Right. And the co headliner to 311 was someone that you Brand Nerds may have heard about. His name is JayZ . So this was the tour that Geoff was the lead on, on bringing this together. Now at that time there, and by the way we did it, it was, it wasn't just in like regular concert places. We did festivals. So arguably the whole festival format that you see now all over the world. LT: Sure. DC: Part of it was G-Money and sort of bringing this whole festival thing together. Now at the time there was another tour. I don't know if you remember this. Of course you remember this G-Money. It was the Anger Management Tour. So we were kind of like companion tours going around the country. So that had M it had Xzibit, Luda, and Papa Roach, but Papa Roach. I know, I know, I know it's gonna sound old. Brand Nerds, y'all need to check this out. So Papa Roach, they were rock band. But we were balanced in what we had. Yeah, Geoff, we had skateboarders there. We had all kind of stuff going on and to the world outside of the tour, it looked and sounded weird. But to see all these different people coming together, this is what G-Money does. He brings things together that you don't think should, go together, but he, but he does it anyway. So now you're welcome, brother. So now this fearlessness, G-Money, you shared a story with us on the first podcast. I'd like you to share it again about when you were at Converse and you were talking about taking all the money out of TV and how you had a conversation about your willingness to get fired. Hmm. Yeah. Can you, can you just revisit that? Cause cuz the same thing could have happened when you were at Coke and we were orchestrating this tour, it's like, what the fuck? Like, hey, either we're gonna do 311 and Hoobastank think, or we're gonna do JZ and The Roots. We're not gonna do 'em both, but we did them both. But go, go ahead. Go G-Money. Geoff Cottrill: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think it's funny when I got hired at Converse to be the CMO. Arguably, if I looked myself in the mirror, I think, oh man, I'm not ready for this. Ooh, I'm not even qualified for this. So I was a little bit, you know, I walked in with a little bit of hesitation and, and my recruiter told me, Hey listen, don't unpack your bags you're not gonna be there that long. And I was like, excuse me, what do you mean by that? Well, you're gonna get fired. And I was like, whoa. Huh? What? So yeah, all CMOs get fired. And until that moment, I didn't realize that that was the case. And so I, I, I was like, okay, cool. So I quickly accepted that and kind of embraced it and started thinking, like, looking around saying, why are all these CMOs getting fired so quickly? Well, maybe I should do different. Maybe I should do things differently. DC: Mm-hmm and so yeah, I just knew I was gonna get fired. Like I, I carried these little notebooks around with me that I write my notes in. Hard back little book. Every time I open a new one, I turn to the last page and I write in the bottom corner you're fired. And so I, so I jokingly say, I know how this book is gonna end. Yeah. Wow. But there's a whole bunch of blank pages between now and the end of this book. So like, okay. I can leave them blank or like, I can just go for it. Geoff Cottrill: Right. And like do things that I believe in that I'm passionate about and put my energy and my mind in like, my, put my name behind it and go, and if it's gonna end that way anyway, right. Then why sit back and do what's already been done over and over again? Why not try to blaze some new trails? So I have been fortunate, but I, you know, fearless is a nice word. There comes with fear. Sure. But it also comes with knowing, acceptance that if the book is gonna end that way, then you might as well let it rip and try to make some history. And I lasted, I lasted almost nine years at Converse and every single executive around the executive leadership table turned three times while I was the only one that stayed. Wow. So, and it was because I was crazy enough to believe that we didn't have to do things like everybody else did. And, you know, that's kind of driven a big, a big part of my career. It's, it's why I am where I am now with Top Golf. I'm excited about the what's in front of us at Top Golf and, you know, I'm, I'm lined up and ready to do it again. LT: So D I, I, I can't help, but thinking of. Frank Sinatra and doing it your way, doing it my way. DC: Mm-hmm LT: Old reference, but perfect, Geoff, right? Geoff Cottrill: Yeah. I, I mean, yeah, but it's, it's, it's funny. It's not really my way. It's, it's, I've taken a little bit from all the people that have sure. Put me in positions and given me, like, for example, you know, I was working with DC early on and you know, I was this preppy white kid dressed in J. Crew and he's like, dude, I want you to go hang out with Usher and Jermaine Dupree is so, so Death Cab and like, get to know those guys. And I show up in like, you know, khakis in a button down and J. Crew from head to toe. And I'm going out to the clubs in Atlanta with these guys, you know, just being myself. Right. And that's the key is to always just like live within your skin and be yourself. Right. And, and, and it's funny how many friends I made in that world because like, I didn't, I didn't put on a front, I didn't, wasn't trying to act like I was, I was like the dorkiest dude in the room and I was proud of it. Like, so. So people like Darryl have given me the opportunity to, to say, well, I can be myself and be a little bit crazy going forward, DC: absolutely Geoff Cottrill: at the same time. And it's people. People working with people that you gotta get to the heart, to, you know, the heart of pretty quickly DC: Wow, G-Money. Well, I, I I'll say this brother while I did say what you just said, before I utter something like that, my respect has to be earned and you earned it brother. LT: Mm-hmm DC: You, you earned it. I knew you in whatever environment. Out of it were going to be the seeds of magic. I didn't know when they were going to sprout. I knew they were gonna be sprinkled. I knew they were going to be watered and I knew eventually some shit's gonna grow. So totally. Yeah, brother. Geoff Cottrill: Remember the day, remember the day Jermaine Dupre came to see me at Coke and he came in I'll never forget that he had a, he had a Barry Sanders Jersey on, a Detroit Lions hat, a big gold rope chain and he met me in the lobby and we were up, we're going up in the elevator and this old guy, Earl Leonard, this old Southern guy was like, DC: Oh yeah, yeah. Know Earl. Yeah. Geoff Cottrill: Oh Jeffrey. And he looked at, he looked at Jermaine and he was, I could tell he was like this business casual stuff's gone too far. and then, and then I got in the room with Jermaine and he said, he goes, I just got one question for you. I'm like, oh, what? Okay, what's up? And he's like, you're gonna be the first guy to put a homeboy in a commercial. And I was like, well, what, what do you mean? He goes, man, you guys don't, you're not working really with anybody in Atlanta right now. Like you go to New York, you go to LA, like I'm right here. And I was like, you know what, dude? Yes. You know what? I am gonna be that guy. And what happened? Two, three months later, we were getting ready for the NBA All Star Game in Atlanta. We were doing that, that spot with Ogilvy for Sprite. And it was Kobe. Yes. And Kobe working out. And it was, they were like, we need music. And I was like, welcome to Atlanta. So I called Jermaine, dude, let's do this. Wow. And, and then that's when it started. And then when we launched Remix As part of Liquid mix, we brought Jermaine in to do all the remixes for all the music. So it started by just like one gutsy call and then, and then, you know, somebody challenged me. You're gonna be the guy. And I'm like, I'm gonna be the, yeah, I'm gonna be the guy. And Jermaine's still to this day is like, you're the first dude at Coke that put me in a spot. Like, I won't forget that. DC: Wow. Geoff Cottrill: So it's crazy. LT: Love that story. Geoff Cottrill: Yeah. It's nuts. DC: He's got a million of them. He's got, he's got a million of them. All right. Something else I wanna say about you and then I wanna I wanna acknowledge something else. G-Money, so Brand Nerds, what, what Geoff has sort of danced around, but I know this to be true of this brother is, he's a sponge. He soaks up knowledge wherever he is. He soaks up knowledge and you can feel it happening by his questions. So JD ,Jermaine Dupree, never says that to G-Money, unless he senses that this brother is soaking up some stuff, he never says this to, to G-Money. So G-Money's a sponge. Now Brand Nerds, sometimes when you have a passion and you're able to combine that with your vocation. It has implications far beyond you. So Geoff is a, is a girl dad. Okay. He has two daughters. One's called Abby, by the way, she's also a Seminole. Abby's a Seminole and one's called Claire. And his wife is Ally. So Claire is a prominent music artist in her own right now. She probably would have done that anyway, but having G-Money as her father and his love of music, I'm certain in some way, pervaded, both Abby and Claire. So Geoff, can you just spend a moment talking about how the love of music has impacted your family? Geoff Cottrill: Yeah, well, so couple things. Yeah. So yeah, we, everybody in the family loves music. My, my wife has got way better music taste than I do. She was at University of Georgia, when REM was there and everything was happening. DC: Oh, wow. Geoff Cottrill: Happens was the epicenter. DC: Wow. Geoff Cottrill: So my wife's music taste and understanding of music is far deeper than mine. Yeah, music has always just been a part of our life. We played music for the kids when they were young. We always had music around the house. I will tell you that one of our daughters Claire has, has, has done very, very well in, in, in her own. Right. She's extremely talented. She's a singer, she's a songwriter. She, she writes and records all of her own music. But I can tell you that her involvement in music has absolutely nothing to do with me. It is, it is. Okay. It, it was a, it is something that she has done and we are so proud of the, of both girls. DC: Mm-hmm. Geoff Cottrill: So proud that Claire has done it. She literally wrote her stuff, put it on YouTube, promoted it herself. Had a couple things blow up on the internet and got the interest of lots of record labels. And I have tried very, very hard to stay the heck out of her way and just to be her dad. And she's had to deal with some stuff. When she broke, a lot of people online, a lot of trolls on the internet came at her and said, the only reason she was successful was because of me. And I can honestly say, honestly, say, look myself in the mirror, anybody else in the world, dead in the eye and say, that is not true. It just isn't true. DC: Mm-hmm. Geoff Cottrill: Shes, both of my daughters are just remarkable young women. And honestly, they're remarkable young women primarily because my wife is a remarkable mother and a remarkable human. So she deserves the credit, not me. And that's not me being humble. That's me being honest. And so yeah, but Claire's had to deal with going places and people saying, hey, I know your dad, you know? And she's like, yeah, that's great. Like, awesome. But like, you know, like my dad really doesn't have anything to do with why I'm here right now and which is true. So I feel bad that she's had to deal with that a little bit. DC: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Geoff Cottrill: Because it's not cool. It's unfair. It's funny. A young, a young guy breaks in the music industry. I've learned a lot about the music industry that I didn't know in the, over the last five or six years, but a young guy breaks and he's a genius, a young woman breaks, and there must be a reason. There's somebody and it's, it's complete, it's complete bullshit. And I mean, it is really just is. I hate to use that word, but it, but it really is. And it's unfair. It's unfair. LT: That's terrible. DC: So sad. Yeah. LT: You know, as you said that I'm like, you know what, that's the way the culture feels. Geoff Cottrill: Yeah, I know, but she's, I'm telling you man, she, and a whole bunch of other, when I say young I'm old, but you know, young female artists are changing the world. There are a number of amazing up and coming and established DC: Really are, yes. Geoff Cottrill: female artists in the world today, more than ever before. And yes, been fun to watch my daughter be part of, you know, part of that movement. It's just, you know, I sit back and I'm just the dorky dad that stands in the back of the show and cries my eyes out when she sings. Like, that's just what happens for me. I just melt and become a dad. And it doesn't have anything to do with my career or where I've been, what I've done, who I know in those moments say, I'm just a dad crying in the corner. That's what I am. DC: My man, my man. Yeah. LT. Do you wanna go to What's Popping brother? LT: Yeah. Let's let, let's go to What's Popping and, and we just wanna clue the Brand Nerds in, because this is Geoff's second episode with us. We're not gonna do our five questions because that's been done go back to listen, to listen to the episode one, because it was great. So we're gonna just go to What's Popping because we feel like that's, that's just really topical. And for those of, you know, this is our chance to shout out, shout down, or simply air something happening in and around marketing today. And we think's really good fodder for discussion. So as DC, shall you lead off, shall Geoff lead off? Shall I? Where should we go? DC: How about, how about LTU lead, I will come after you and we let G-Money do cleanup. LT: I love it. Right? So it's, it's funny. My what's popped and you guys are gonna laugh cuz he said this at the outset. And then also Geoff talking, we're talking about Geoff being fearless. The NBA finals are mid-swing and yes, my Warriors, go Warriors, they're in it, in it to win it. But what my What's Popping is not about basketball, it is about what one of the Warrior's best players is doing off the floor that I thought would be really interesting to dissect and discuss. And it is Draymond Green. If you're not, if you're not familiar with Draymond, if you're not a basketball fan, I would encourage you to just YouTube him and you'll get the flavor of Draymond. And to put it my, to just put it in a few words, Draymond is fearlessly outspoken. That's why I was chuckling myself, Geoff being fearless, right. He's fearlessly, outspoken, he's loud, and he's very smart, both on the basketball floor and off of it. So when the dubs didn't make the playoffs in the, in the 2020/21 season, which was last season, Draymond spent his time working for Turner Sports as an analyst. And of course he just shined big time and Turner decides to sign him while he's still playing. He's a paid analyst for Turner Sports right now. And he's a very, and he's obviously still a very important component of a dynastic team that has been to six NBA finals in eight years. Yes. Other pro-athletes have worked for TV networks while they are still playing, but it is rare to have a lucrative media career while you're in the prime of one's playing career. Additionally, Draymond debuted his podcast a few months ago, which he hosts on his own and he is doing his podcast after every playoff game. And yes, we're taping after game three of the NBA finals and he did it after they lost. And the Boston fans were chanting "F Draymond." Of course, he very smartly says things on his podcast. He is not saying elsewhere, his podcast has become a must listen. And many sports talk radio shows are using the audio from his podcast, which only helps promote his podcast that much more. When we think about great brands, they must have a great brand positioning that is then expertly and consistently applied through emotionally connective, connecting creative, and then communicate to the target audience through media they consume. So it's the three that we love things in threes: great brand positioning and in incredible creative and then also communicated through so different forms of media. So when you think about Draymond, he really knows the brand positioning of his very bold brand - check on brand positioning. He then adeptly applies that brand positioning with great creative through his talk content that is pure Draymond - check on great creative. And then he elevates the wonderful content through a multitude of media, both traditional with Turner and all of his pre and post-game media interviews and through new media via his own podcast, social media, et cetera - check on large swaths of media everywhere. So in my humble opinion, he gets it all the way and barring something unforeseen. He will be a thriving brand for many years to come. Your thoughts? DC: G-Money? Geoff Cottrill: No doubt about it. The guy is incredible. I have to admit on this podcast, I'm a Celtics fan. I lived in Boston for 10 years. LT: All good. Geoff Cottrill: But having, I, I have, I have been fascinated with Draymond since I've saw him entered the league and he's just been he's outspoken. He's incredible. He's got a great point of view. He's an incredible athlete. LT: Yep. Geoff Cottrill: And he's a super interesting person off the court as well. So I completely agree with you. He's a brand, he's a mega brand in the making. I think he does have a big career on the, on the court, but I think after he's finished with the court, like the, sky's the limit for this guy, I really think he's something special DC: D, I can, I conquer G-Money and LT. I'm gonna spend a little time talking about why you two gentlemen have said what you've said about Draymond Green. Why is this guy going to be more prominent when he retires from basketball than today. And I think the why is directly related to something that G-Money said earlier. When I said to G-Money, yo, I want you to get out and hang with the peoples. Talk to the people who are driving culture. Talk to the people who maybe not today are going to influence millions and millions of people. But they will do it tomorrow, know them early. So G-Money talked about, he would show up head to toe, J Crew. The reason why he did that is because he was comfortable in his own skin. LT: Yep. DC: Draymond green is comfortable in his own skin. LT: Oh god, yes. Geoff Cottrill: Hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. DC: He's not trying to be anyone other than Draymond. G-Money's not trying to be anyone other than G-Money. And when you can carry yourself into any environment and not feel you have to change to fit the environment, but have the confidence and belief that the environment will change to fit you, you can do all kinds of things. I'm awesome. Yeah. So that, that's the why for me, for for Dre. Geoff Cottrill: Yeah, agree. LT: I just have to tell one quick story, which backs all the fearless part. When Draymond was a rookie, he was only a second round pick in the NBA. If you're a second round pick, you're guaranteed really squadoosh, you, if, if you are not good, you get cut and you don't get paid. So he's a second round pick. He comes into warriors training camp and as a rookie, most NBA teams assign you a vet. So this is your vet need to follow this vet. So they assigned Draymond his vet to be this dude, Jeremy Tyler, who had only been in a year, a year or two, and actually came outta high school was younger than Draymond. So after a day, Draymond realized this dude didn't know any, he knew much more than this guy. So he went, he went to the coaching step and said, I need a new vet. Get rid of him. He can't be my vet. Geoff Cottrill: See, that's amazing. That's amazing. And it's like, it's so great. It's just so great. There's so many great things about that. LT: Anyway. DC: No, no, no, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. LT: No, I was gonna say D, ready for yours. I think that was we all concur. I, I, and he's gonna be, he's just scratching the surface on, on his brand as we, we all... Geoff Cottrill: I completely agree. DC: Totally agree. I wanna say one more thing about Draymond. So Draymond he did his collegiate ball at Michigan State - shout Spartans. So he's a Michigan dude. Yep. I think he's from Saginaw. LT: Not think I was just gonna say Saginaw through and through. DC: Okay. Saginaw. Okay. Saginaw. All right. And so another thing he was the 35th pick. And if you asked him today to name all of the players, 34 people picked before him. He can name them every one, he can name every one of them, every one of them up to 35. So the dude's dope. All right. Here's my what's poppin. I'm gonna, I'm gonna title this title my what's popping "this ain't that." This ain't that. I know G-Money's gonna love this. I like fragrances. I like fragrances and I sometimes get my fragrances from Neiman Marcus. So I'm going to read you a description of one fragrance from Neiman Marcus. It is Yves Saint Laurent and it's called Y Eau De Toilette. Y Eau De Toilette. LT: Very good French D. DC: Yeah, I did. Oh, that's thank you brother. But I'm sure the French people, the, the French people right now are, are like going off. Okay. So let me read the description. This is on the Nina Marcus website today. It says, "the new Y Eau De Toilette is a fresh, clean, long lasting men's cologne for the fearless experimenter who lives by his own rules. The long lasting fragrance features aromatic and fresh notes of sage and lavender at the heart fuse with a crisp bite of germanium, rounded out by central woods and masculine incense, the Y bottle encapsulates a color of coolness with an icy blue that reveals the freshness of men's fragrance. The crystal clear glass bottle features a striking silver Y that slashes through the square shoulder bottle. An ultra desirable scent for the fearless Y name. And then the fragrance notes are: top notes: geranium, middle notes: lavender, bottom notes: incense. Okay. So this is Yves Saint Laurent. Now let's compare that to another, by the way, that's 3.4 ounces. Okay. I'm gonna give you the price in a minute. Another fragrance. This one is called Boadicea the Victorious. Boadicea the Victorious, otherwise known as The Green Monster. So same retailer, Neiman Marcus. You click on that details and here's what it says. Elegant, enchanting, and mystical. A bewitching and intriguing perfume inspired by a British Whitland in spring bursting into blossom. Top notes: saffron, raspberry, liqueur accord. Middle notes: pine needle, violet leaves and cashmere musk. Base notes: cedarwood, sandalwood, agarwood I don't know what that is, amber musk and vanilla. And then it says about Boadicea the Victorious. Enclosed and fascinating bottles inlaid with Celtic decorations, Boadicea the Victorious fragrances are an ode to the brave queen of the Celts who fought courageously against the Romans in the name of her people. Her symbol was a necklace and gold medal that has become the distinctive trademark engraved on each bottle. Passion, power, courage, are the guiding characteristics of a line of luxury perfumes created in 2008 by skilled perfume artisians. Natural and high quality ingredients are combined with elegant olfactory sensations in perfect idiosyncrasy with those who wear them. Distinguished by a touch of unconventional intensity, that marks out a unique collection and decisive fragrance for him and for her. Boadicea is an independent fragrance house that brings a bespoke field to its public, taking inspiration from a defining moment in history and creating a range that is quintessentially British and of incomparable quality, contemporary and original. Boadicea is a part of a new tradition in luxury perfume. Okay. Now, fellas, what, when I read this shit, I was like, are you making love to me right now? What is happening? Okay. What is happening when I read this. Now here's the thing I read for you the description of Yves Saint Laurent, their three point ounce price is $100. Boadicea The Victorious, The Green Sapphire perfume is also 3.4 ounces. It's $905. Okay. Okay, it's $905. Okay. So here, here, here's what's popping for me. It's the same thing. Geoff Cottrill: Yes, it is. DC: But because I read what they've done with, with the Boadicea, there's a love, there's a romance. Yes. There's a story. Yes. That I'm willing to spend $800 more for this same three four ounces than I for Yves Saint Laurent. This ain't that. Geoff Cottrill: That's, what's popping for me. That's that's crazy. Can you imagine the meet? I mean, I've been in that meeting, I've been in the meeting. there's five people around the table and we're reading the copy. Yep. Goes, can you gimme a little more uplift in that last sentence? DC: yes, yes, yes. Geoff Cottrill: Oh, you're like, yes. And then, you know, there's one, I'm the one in the corner of the room going, is this really happening right now? Are we really, is this, how did I get in this room? What am I doing here? This to Larry, to your earlier question, when do you know it's time to go when you're in that meeting? LT: Well, Geoff, how about, you know, I, I still remember what you told us in the first show that you always have a chair for the consumer. What's the consumer thinking, right? DC: That's right, right. That's right. Geoff Cottrill: Yeah. I'm like, honestly, I'm two sentences through both of those descriptions and I go and I spray it, smell it, and I decide if I'm gonna buy LT: It's, it's interesting. I. As you were reading the Yves Saint Laurent one after each sentence, I'm like, what did they just like, I, I was like, you know, when you're reading something, like if I'm reading like, like legal contracts, I'll read a paragraph, what did I just read? Ah, that's what that sounded like versus the second one, there was action and power and stories. Geoff Cottrill: Ah. Yeah, for sure. LT: And also by the way, they should get you to read it. You did a great job reading it. DC: Oh, thank you brother. LT: Great job reading the first one. So there's but DC: Thank you. LT: The power and the writing and the romance of it. Is it's night and day. That's why it was good that you read both of them. So, you know, I, I saw where you were going. As soon as you, you were two lines into the second one. DC: You're like it's different. Yeah. It's LT: Completely. Geoff Cottrill: It's so good. This is so good. All right. I got ones for you, brother. I got one. That's probably it's related to kind of what I'm doing now. LT: Please. Geoff Cottrill: And I think what's popping is the brand of golf is changing. LT: Geoff, before you do that, can you quickly, cuz I don't think I did it justice. Can you quickly tell the Brand Nerds? What is Top Golf? Geoff Cottrill: Yeah. Top golf is Top Golf is this incredible experience that's open to everyone and it's an opportunity for you to come and hit golf balls at targets. Top means target oriented practice, but it's loud music. It's good food. It's just a fun time and everyone is welcome. Golf is a very, can be a very snobby, exclusive support. We try very hard to open our doors and be inclusive and you don't have to be a golfer. In fact, we love it when you've never played golf and you come to Top Golf for the first time and you swing a club and you miss it and we call it a practice swing, but we, we, we wanna encourage people to have a good time and we're determined and this I get up every day and join the company, because of it, we're determined to change the face of golf, to literally change the face of golf. To make it more inclusive, to make it more diverse, super and to change the game. And we are in the midst of the early stages of seeing this old game of golf begin to change. I played golf when I was in high school, when my wife and I had kids after college, I stopped playing golf cuz I didn't have time or money and golf is a lot of time and a lot of money. LT: Right. Geoff Cottrill: And so I didn't play for years. I took lessons at a Top Golf years ago, long before I came to the company, found it super interesting. Loved the music, loved the food, loved the activity and action that was going on. But what's happening with the game of golf is you're starting to see. So it's funny, you said basketball and DC talked earlier about us bringing basketball street culture and skateboarding together in the old tour that we did, right? Go back 30 years. Basketball ruled street culture. DC: Mm-hmm Geoff Cottrill: everything came out of basketball 20 years ago. Basketball continued to drive street culture, but skateboarding entered the picture. DC: Yeah. Geoff Cottrill: And skateboarding started to have a pretty big influence on what was happening with street culture as well. Yeah. And it's first, they were very different, separate, one was black, one was white. It was, you know, then you had guys like Pharrell that were in NERD but were skateboarders and you started to, was starting to happen. Yeah. Lil Wayne, Lil Wayne. Yeah. Right, exactly. Lil Wayne incredible skateboarder. So so what's happening is you're seeing as these kids, these people that start, all this stuff are getting a little bit older. The, the original skateboarders are getting a little bit older. Their knees hurt their backs, hurt their ankles hurt, and they're playing golf. They're moving to golf. They're seeing street culture adopt the sport of golf. Against the sport of golf's will, which is what I love. But entering the game and changing the game and demanding that the game be maybe not played differently right. But experienced differently. And that's one of the reasons Top Golf is we exist is to provide a different experience for golf. But what you're seeing and what's popping are these really interesting brands that are coming up brands like Melvin Golf, who I'm obsessed with this guy that started this. Steven Melvin started Frank151, the old street marketing agency. Oh yeah. Yes. Now has a golf brand. It's ridiculous. Ridiculous. He does incredible collabs with Nike, with FootJoy with all different kinds. I mean, he is the, the brand is really interesting. And it takes like the idea of street culture street wear, but puts a golf spin on it, or takes golf silhouettes and spins them. You see brands like East Side Golf, right East Side golf. Some guys from the east side of Atlanta in the East Lake area started a company, a brand, their logo, their, their drawing is a guy playing golf, swinging a club and a gold chain's kind of swinging in the air. DC: Oh wow. Geoff Cottrill: Like they have brought, they have brought Jordan, Brand Jordan, arguably the most influential sneaker in sneaker culture. Yep. Jordan has started to make golf shoes about a year and a half ago. Jordan One. Jordan released a Jordan One golf shoe. LT: Wow. Geoff Cottrill: And the people in the golf industry didn't kind of get it. LT: Of course. DC: Mm-hmm. Geoff Cottrill: And I've been in this industry now for 10 months and I was like, oh, oh, look at this. DC: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Geoff Cottrill: This is a moment. And what is happening, what is about to happen in the game of golf is this transformation as the next generation of people come in and honestly reinvent and potentially save the game of golf. There's a great article that ran in Bloomberg a couple of weeks ago that said millennials, how will millennials save golf, by rebranding it? And wow. I'm telling the brands like Melvin Golf, East Side Golf, Devaro, there are some really interesting stuff going on. I played in a golf tournament that Stock X, the sneaker, you know, trading platform, mm-hmm Stock X, and Melvin did in Palm Springs. Hundred people played. And it was as if I was at a sneaker head meeting. LT: Wow. Geoff Cottrill: Like it was a hundred kids, me, some dorky, old guy playing golf, but it was head to toe, like head to toe streetwear meets golf and it was all the coolest kids you've ever seen. And you're like, okay. Yeah, something is happening. So what's popping is take a look at this game. And there are people like top golf who are dedicated to like destroying some of the barriers. Love. I always say, I always say, we're gonna respect the game, but we're going to disrupt the game. And that is what we're we're doing. And we're making loads and loads of friends, Hype Beasts just launched Hype Golf. They opened a retail store in New York City. It's like lines out the door to get all the product that's in there. So you're, again, basketball was rulin' the day. Skateboarding was rulin' the day, then basketball and skateboarding started working together. And now they've added because they've added golf and they're on the courses now. And you're starting to see this really interesting change. So I I'm so excited every day when I get up because of like, I was like golf, I don't play golf like golf. Ugh. Ugh. And then I get in there and I'm like, oh, wait a minute. This is an opportunity. Sure, sure. I'm a, you know, a middle aged, white guy that looks like I can get in any country club and I can walk in the country club and I can wear the quarter zip. but you know me, I got this, like I'm in the room, I'm gonna be myself. We're gonna disrupt this game for the better. And at some point someday somebody's gonna win a major championship and they will have swung their first club at a Top Golf. And and the ones that don't, it doesn't matter. They had fun while they were there. And all I care about is somebody that walks in and says, oh, I don't play golf. Ooh. I don't play golf. Ooh. I don't play golf. We're like, that's fine. Don't worry about it. You don't play golf. Come play. Come have fun. Have a beer, swing the ball. Maybe you hit it. Maybe you don't. But they walk out and they go, oh my God, I just play golf. Like, right. Yes, because off course golf is now as big as big as on course, golf is. LT: What do you mean by that, Geoff? What is that? Geoff Cottrill: Well, there're 12, there're 12 million people in the US that only play green grass golf. LT: Right. Geoff Cottrill: There are 12 million people that only play forms of golf, off course, meaning at a Top Golf or a video game. LT: Got it. Geoff Cottrill: Or some other expression or experience based in golf that isn't at a golf course. Got it. There's 12 million people in the middle that, that do both. They both. Okay. So you've got. You've got the, the off course to the game itself is expanding like the, the what, what the me, what the word means when people think about golf is different than it used to be. Oh, golf. That's that? That's that, yeah, that's that sport where they tell me to be quiet. LT: Right. Geoff Cottrill: Right now it's like, oh my gosh, like I had a blast at a Top Golf or at a playing a virtual reality game based in. That isn't, that doesn't come with all the old, the old stuffiness. And look, I'm not knocking traditional golf, cuz we, I want traditional golf to be healthy, but I also am determined to get traditional golf, to open their eyes and see that the world is a bigger place and that you can be more inclusive and that the sport itself can be, can be more than it is. Honestly, I came, I, I retired from Coke. I sat out, started a magazine with some friends, did some stuff, this opportunity, I went running towards the fire. DC: Wow. Geoff Cottrill: Because of what could be and honestly what will be, what I love it. And how often do you get an opportunity to make an impact on a sport? Right? DC: Mm-hmm Geoff Cottrill: and we are dedicated and I'm fortunate. I work on a leadership team at Top Golf. It's like crazy good. And there's no evil in the room and we're just trying to like, make a difference and, and, and make people happy. Like make people bring the idea of play to the world. I'll tell you super quick story about what I mean. I went to a golf tournament in Jacksonville, Florida. I don't know, four months ago it was the Player's Championship. And I was there for a practice round and it was getting ready to rain. Weren't a lot of people on the course. Walking through the course with another guy I work with, we see two kids on top of a hill off to our left on this big hill they lay down and they roll all the way down the hill and they're laughing and carrying on and just having a good time. And I'm like, look at that. That's amazing. And then I say to my friend, you know, what, if we did that, they'd kick us outta here. We would be misbehaving if we did that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What has, what has happened to the world that the idea of play has gone away? So we're dedicated to this idea of like having that attitude and that spirit of bringing more play to the world and making the world a little bit more fun. So I know what's popping is like, you know, observations, but I'm in the middle of something that I feel like is popping. LT: This is what's. This is the fundamental definition of what's popping. Yeah. So, no, the, the I'm so glad you you've you've shed a light on all that D I know you're, you're that big brain of yours is thinking of something. What are, what are your thoughts? DC: Appreciate it, LT. G-Money, you mentioned how basketball changed culture and how skateboarding changed culture, 30 and 20 years respectively. And how now, those who are into both are of age, where they are engaging with golf. Geoff Cottrill: Yeah. DC: And you mentioned the word disruption let's go back further than 30 years ago. Yeah. There was a time G-Money and Larry, you guys know this well. Where the NBA was mostly set shots. LT: Mm-hmm DC: very stoic kind of dribbling in passing. Geoff Cottrill: That's right. DC: That's what it was. And then there was a, a a brand that came along, that that was populated with predominantly African American players called the Harlem Globetrotters. LT: Yep. DC: And they're they're client of our, they were client of ours by the way. And they changed the game. They didn't just say, Hey, we're gonna try to figure out how to play basketball like you. They changed the way that basketball was played so much. So that one of the last the last ESPN, 30 by 30 on now is called The Greatest Mix Tape Ever. Yeah. It's about, and one directed by friends of ours, Chris Robinson is Sy Richardson who we know, I know G-Money knows him as well. And And One never happens without the Harlem Globetrotters. That's right. And the point here was that instead of tapping on the door, they kicked the door in and said, yeah, we're coming in. That's right. And so G-Money, what I think is happening now with golf, I, which I didn't know. And what you all are doing at, at, at top, Top Golf, you're doing that. You're saying we're gonna kick the door in and when we kick it in, everyone's coming in. Now, the Harlem Globetrotters were not disrespecting the game of basketball. No, they just had a different creative way of expressing it. That's exactly. Top Golf is not disrespecting the game of golf. No. The brands that you mentioned, they're not disrespecting the game of golf. They just have a, a, a different way of expressing their love for it. Geoff Cottrill: That's exactly right. DC: So I, I think that's super dope. Geoff Cottrill: And expanding what, what love of a, of a sport or a culture is like, yes. Who's to say, like, these are the rules. These are the rules, rules are I, I, you know, you know me, I mean, rules have always been guidelines to me. DC: Yes. Geoff Cottrill: but this is a, it's just you're I don't know that everybody in the world is seeing this yet, but it's happening so exciting and the people that are behind it, it's not just Top Golf. We're part of it, right? Yeah. The people that are behind it are really like good people who love the game, but just don't want to be told how to dress or what shoes to wear. And you know, I've, you know, I mean, you know, I got a sneaker collection of like 300 more, more than 300 pairs of sneakers. And like I'm now on a mad sneaker, golf, golf sneaker collection. I'm I'm loading my garage before. They're amazing. LT: That's awesome. That's fun. So I have a all DC: Larry what's what's on your mind, brother. I know you got something happening over there. LT: I do. I have a lot in my mind, and first I really love where Geoff is coming from because the game and those brands need disruption. And so, and you're doing it, like you said, not in a disrespectful way in a, in a real additive way. But I'm struck with some large sort of macro thoughts that go back into sport. And I just listened to an amazing podcast and I would've if you, you all know who Bomani Jones is, Bomani Jones. DC: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. LT: Been on the ESPN and he is at his own HBO show and he has a really excellent podcast and he had Howard Bryant on and Howard Bryant is an incredible writer, written a lot of books. I think his most, you know, probably popular book was on Hank Aaron, and he just came out with a book and it's called Ricky and it's about Ricky Henderson. And one of the things that Bomani and Howard talked about was that basketball was a game that's changed over time. And I would say that as you were talking about it, Geoff and D you then just, just gave the exact reason. The Globetrotters were a huge impetus for change, and they knocked the door down and changes happened ever since. And I still had coaches in the seventies. Oh, you have to pass three times. There's always that element of conservatism in every game. DC: Mm-hmm LT: Conversely baseball never changed. Geoff Cottrill: Never. LT: Baseball, Ricky Henderson, as great as he was, he was a hot dog and he was so great. Baseball, and all the, when you hear about when, when you hear about the rules that the, the unspoken unwritten rules. Yeah. Right. Those are pre-integration rules. Agree. And baseball has never changed. And look where baseball is now, because if you play baseball, you gotta adhere to the game. And that's just the way the shit goes down. That's right. So I'm giving those polar extremes, right? Basketball, baseball. Golf is definitely, let's be like, has been in the baseball world. Geoff Cottrill: Yeah, no question. LT: Can top golf be the Harlem Globetrotters for golf? Like the Globetrotters did for basketball. Geoff Cottrill: Yeah. It, it won't just be us. It'll be, like I said, there are people that are, that love the game that just decide that it's gonna look and feel and be played a different way. And you know, I'm gonna play music in my golf cart on the, on the golf course. And you're starting to see golf courses, you know, there's a, the Waste Management Tournament that happened in, right. Like I hit a hole in one and, you know, 3000 beer cans hit the green. Right. And it was like, what is happening? Like, this is a moment that we should now, do you want this happening at every single golf tournament and probably not? No. Yeah. Yeah. But the fact that like the fans are like rambunctious and obnoxious and having fun, like. Why wouldn't the sport want more of that? Right? And by the way, Waste Management sponsored the tournament and they quickly had people out in waste management vests like cleaning up beer cans on a green. Like I was like, this might be the best pro. This might be the best brand punk in history. They might have planned this, so that Waste Management could do their thing. It was super impressive, but, but there's little moments of that are happening in this game. And, and there's hope for me, there's hope that it can be a more inclusive, more diverse, more accessible game. And that's why I get up every morning, man. I, I get up cuz I see it could happen, man. DC: Super dope. Super dope. LT: Dope. I think that's a way that's a mic drop to close. D don't you think? DC: I do brother. I do. LT: Geoff, we thank you so much, man. You know, your, your first show was great and this was. This was like exponentially even past that. Awesome. Geoff Cottrill: Thank you. Thank you. Well, I look forward to being back at 200 or 300 or that like count me at any time you two or two of my favorite people. And man, what an honor to be able to sit for an afternoon and talk to you guys, man. Two people that I've learned a ton from that I will continue to learn from, and that I love dearly. So thank you very much. LT: The honor has been ours and Brand Nerds, thanks for listening to Brands, Beats, and Bytes recorded virtually on zoom in a production of KZSU Stanford, 90.1 FM radio and worldwide a kzsu.org. The executive producers are Jeff Shirley Darryl "DC" Cobbin, myself, Larry Taman, Hailey Cobbin, Jade Tate and Tom Dioro. DC: The pod-father. Yes, sir. And if you are listening to us via podcast, it would be great if you can please rate and review us. Additionally, if you do like the show, please subscribe and share with friends and family. We hope you enjoyed this podcast. And we look forward to next time where we will have more insightful and enlightening. Talk about marketing with another great business leader as our guest.