Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / How to Stand Out At Auditions

Transcript

How to Stand Out At Auditions · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_04: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_04: This is Making the Impact a Dance Competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_04: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_04: It's something every dancer faces throughout their career.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_04: How to stand out at auditions.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_04: What does it take to book a job, win a scholarship, or get chosen to be an assistant at convention?
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_04: Today on Making the Impact, convention director and professional dancer DJ Smart joins us to give insight on what to do and not do to get noticed, whether you're a seasoned professional or just starting out in the dance world.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, dance world, and happy Thanksgiving over here from Making the Impact.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's Courtney Ortiz, I'm your host, and I'm here with my co-host, Leslie Mailer.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: Hey Courtney, happy Thanksgiving.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, where are you spending Thanksgiving this year, Leslie?
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh, we're in Montreal, Canada.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_04: Wow, that's exciting.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_04: I know.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_04: Differ just a little bit different celebration.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_04: We've I feel like Thanksgiving, when you're in, you know, far away from your family, it's so close to Christmas.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes you just can't make both work.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_04: So like I have been typically not with family at Thanksgiving.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_04: So we had decided to take a little trip.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_04: So Montreal it is.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'm jealous.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm sure it's cold but beautiful and enjoy Canada.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: I will be in Baltimore with my family for Thanksgiving Day.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: And then I'm flying out and spending Thanksgiving weekend in Seattle for Francisco Gella Dance Work, Seattle Dance Advance Intensive, which I was a part of last year, and I had the best time.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: The dancers were so talented.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: I can't wait to see some of them again.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're uh gonna be in Seattle, can't wait to see you there.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_04: Awesome.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_04: Well, yes, happy Thanksgiving, everyone.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_04: We are very thankful for you, our dear listeners.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for sticking with us.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for supporting, and we are excited for more episodes to come shortly.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, we are.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: We have a great episode in store to gear up for the convention season ahead.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe you've already been to one or maybe it doesn't kick off until 2025.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: But we have a lot of tips and tricks about auditioning coming your way on today's episode.
• 2:21
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• 2:24
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• 3:28
  SPEAKER_04: Moving through a competitive dance season comes with a lot of excitement along with top-level goals.
• 3:33
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• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: Alright, Danceworld, we're jumping into this Thanksgiving episode, and we are talking all about how to stand out at auditions.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: This was a highly requested topic from so many of our fans, from so many dance parents, from teachers to dancers.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone wants to know what are the people behind the table looking for when it comes to an audition?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: We could be talking about dance conventions, which I think a lot of people want to know because a lot of dancers attend those dance conventions, and you know how many audition processes there are where they're scouting through numbers and watching you in class, or maybe there's an audition class where you can win scholarships and all of the things.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: But let's take that information and also apply it to professional life and dance after your studio and after dance conventions and walking into an actual real audition, maybe for college, maybe for a Broadway show, maybe for a music artist.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: So we are thrilled to talk about this today.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I know all of us here have a thing or two to say because we have lived that audition life through our careers.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: And today I'm so excited to finally welcome a dear friend of mine who I've known in the biz since we were seniors in high school.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: We go way back to Young Arts Week in Miami 2007.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: Whoa, so long.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, oh my gosh, the fiercest jazz dancer around.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_03: You may know him from being on faculty since season one at Ash Dance Convention, and he has recently been promoted to regional director.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_03: We finally got him on the podcast, and I can't wait to hear what he has to share.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so excited to welcome DJ Smart to the pod.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome, DJ.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: What's up?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: How's everybody doing?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_04: So good.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_04: That was the best intro ever.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, I already knew all these things, and I'm really, really excited now.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's so fear.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I I've been doing this for way too long.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_03: We all have been over here.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_03: We all have been.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm so like, I love young arts, but it I I'm so excited that I've been slowly been able to sprinkle in different people that I met from my senior year in high school doing that program.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: And Young Arts is actually a sponsor of our podcast, which is a pretty cool fun fact.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: They still support us.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_03: But like, I obviously, and I don't know if you felt the same way, but like when we were there in Miami, our senior year, in this amazing opportunity that we were gifted with, I had no idea that I would still be following everyone's journeys and still stay connected with these people who have all gone on to have beautiful careers in the dance space.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely agree.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: I I think I was just shocked and surprised and unfamiliar with the whole experience.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact that I was even selected, I was just like, what is going on?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: We're getting award prizes and getting flown to Miami and working with master teachers and everyone talented.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: It was just too much to process.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: And fast forward, like you said, everyone is excelling in so many different avenues of the industry in so many ways.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact that we're able to still keep in touch with each other and the entire young arts community is spectacular.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: I still even have students and people who I was their residential advisor that come up to me and I'm like, I feel so old, but I'm I'm so honored as well.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Cause who would have known that everyone would be connected still years later in this way?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's a beautiful thing.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: So all of our listeners out there, remember this dance world is small.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_03: The people that you're at convention with, the people that you're competing against at competition might become some long lifelong friends that you get to have in this industry.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_03: So and I love that we've stayed connected through so many years and love watching your journey.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: So, DJ, if you could tell the world a little bit more about your dance journey, where you grew up, early dance training, and career credits you want to share in your beautiful career, as well as what you're currently working on.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so to fast track it, I grew up in Detroit, Michigan.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Shout out to 313 Motor City, Midwest.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: I went to Cass Technical High School in downtown Detroit.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Some of you may know that one.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's where Diana Ross went and Big Sean, and we have some Miss USA winners, lots of people.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then I trained at a studio called Detroit Dance Center under the direction of Carol Moriso.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then I went to one called Penn Fatale Dance Studio and trained under the direction of Rita Mosley.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: After that, I moved to Philadelphia where I went to college at the University of the Arts, which was amazing.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Later moved to Italy, to Venice, Italy, and stayed there and trained for about a little under a year, and then moved to Los Angeles, where I've been for 13 years.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: So since then, I've kind of dabbled in every medium of dance and performing from concert, commercial, musical, theater.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now I was a guest performer on So You Think You Can Dance.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: I worked with a lot of artists touring the world.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: I was on a World Tour with Share and choreographed for Tanashe and did America's Got Talent and Disney's Best Friends Whenever.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm currently touring with the National Tour of Wicked.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: So um all those dance classes and vocal lessons and acting classes all came in handy.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: I always tell everyone I've been trying to quit performing for about 20 years now.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: But somehow it just it just finds you, you know.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: I always say it it I didn't I didn't choose to perform, it just chose me.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a a thing that I know I was put on this earth to do, and it's just the best thing ever.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: And not even just performing, and like you hinted at, you've also done you are a choreographer and an amazing dance educator.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: And you've been with Ash for so long, and now you're you're on tour with Wicked, but also playing double duty as the regional director at Ash.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's amazing.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: So many things happening, but new and exciting things.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, this recent position that I received as regional director was a huge opportunity and a huge honor that I did not see coming, but to have been at a convention or any business since the first season and to witness how much it's grown and have been uh a a part of how it's evolved, how it's developed and and how it's manifested through so many things.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's a pleasure to continue to do that in any capacity.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm thrilled that you were able to squeeze us in in your busy schedule to join us finally on the podcast.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like you're the perfect guest based on your experience in the professional world, on doing so many different jobs in the industry and also working on the dance convention space that you can share those different perspectives being behind the table or in an audition room on how to stand out at audition.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: So we're thrilled to have you here.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yay.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: Let's jump in.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: I can't wait.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_04: Awesome.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_04: Well, DJ, first of all, just congratulations for your promotion and for your recent uh booking in Wicked.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just really amazed and impressed that you're able, you figured out how to do both.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_04: Because I think that is something that a lot of the parents are listening today are gonna be intrigued by because not a lot of people can juggle two to two jobs, really.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, that's those are two very big jobs that you have, and somebody on both ends trusted you enough to trust that you could do both and show up, you know, 100% at both.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_04: So just congratulations.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Leslie.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_04: You're welcome.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_04: All right, well, let's start.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_04: And I want to start with a first impression talk, because everybody in every industry ever has heard that, that the first impression really matters.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_04: Why do you think that matters so much in our industry?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_04: Dance generally, but then when we kind of bring it down to the microcosm of conventions, why is a first impression so important?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: First impressions are super important.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I know many dancers and teachers and parents and you know, regular people who are maybe are not artists have heard this no matter what industry you're in, that first impressions are the most important.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: They really are because in a very whether it be a job interview or an audition like it is in our world, it's really unrealistic the circumstances and the time constraints that we're under.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: For example, for an audition, I don't know, they can go anywhere from an hour to eight hours or several days.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very short time to get to know someone.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: And if 500 to 1,500 people there, like there are sometimes, there is no way you can get to know 1,500 people when you have groups of them and you get about five to ten minutes with each of them.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's no way, it's just not possible.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: So under being realistic to those circumstances helps a lot.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: So then you get into the mindset of how can you make the first impression the best one.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I always say is that the moment you sign into an audition, you're auditioning.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: And by then, it's too late.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: When we split people up into groups, we've already been watching you during the audition and we've already been watching you in the class.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: So really the groups are just to confirm.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's one more chance to confirm what we already know.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because we've already an opportunity for you to change our mind, which is very rare.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Whoa, well, I didn't see that one right there.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, well, maybe that one would be good.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: That happens as well.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: But for the most part, we've already seen you and we already kind of know what you can do, and we already kind of have a rough draft in the back of our mind.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: So your first impression, small things, I call them soft skills versus hard skills.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is what they teach you in the business world.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone in this room, they can dance, they can do the choreography, they have the counts.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: You you can pretty much assume that.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I always tell my students, that's not really an achievement.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's a prerequisite.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Your emperor should know the counts and you should know the choreography.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of your job.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a waiter being like, I brought you your food.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: I would be like, I hope so, because that's the now.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: If the food is amazing and you're making my experience, you know, spectacular and superlative, then I'm like, I gotta come to this restaurant again and I gotta tip her.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, like it it enhances it.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: But knowing the choreography and the counts are your job, but your first impression, the soft skills are so important.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: When they ask you a question, does that make sense, you guys?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it does.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Respond verbally.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: Respond.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my God, respond.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's a connection.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: Respond like proud and and confident and uh use your voice.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_03: Don't be afraid to use your voice as a dancer.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because then they hear you, that comes across as confident.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: You get an extra moment to them.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: They and they we remember those things like, oh, that girl, she spoke to me.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like she has a lot of energy.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that's before we've seen you dance.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Also, where you're standing in the room.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: This is something I learned later.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I know there's a lot of dance parents out there that do this.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: You guys have probably seen it as well.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: They already, their teachers are that are like, go to the front, go to the front kids to go to the front, who are maybe not the most comfortable.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think that a star is gonna shine no matter where it is, but you do have to make sure you can be seen.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: I have been at so many auditions and I'm I'm short like Courtney.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: We're short and mighty, and you can't see them teaching the choreography, or you can't be seen because everyone is tall.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: I've literally been at an audition standing on the couch in the back, learning choreography because I can't see front.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta do what you gotta do.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm short too.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_04: I'm shorter than Courtney, so I feel you.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Go somewhere where you can see and where you can be seen because the world is not gonna stop and go, oh, DJ can't see.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let's split in the groups.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Or sometimes they go first half sit down, but sometimes they don't.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: So you're a little bit more autonomous and take responsibility over the situation.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't mean be rude and stand in front of people.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: That means maybe raising your hand and asking if we can switch lines.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes they'll do that and sometimes they won't, or not asking and just going, moving to a place and being respectful of the people around you, but moving somewhere where you can see all of those things are super, super important, uh, especially initially.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's really gonna make a difference.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then the last thing I would say, as far as first impressions, is what you're wearing as well.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to wear something that is comfortable, that shows your talent.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: You have to do your research as well.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because another thing I learned, uh LA versus New York, I would initially start going into auditions in LA and I would just wear dance clothes, all black, you know, stuff that I can dance, and I was not getting any jobs to the point where I was like, have I gotten worse?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, right, what is it?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, because nobody told me.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: And someone was like, You went to this Lady Gaga audition wearing that?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Yeah.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, no.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Wearing cut-up jeans and like something like, you know, like a vest and like something more fashionable.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, but I can't dance in that.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Am I right?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it doesn't matter about dancing, like, but I didn't very different because in New York we wear black and it's about you're dancing, and you don't wear these big ridiculous things to a West Side story audition.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: No, exactly.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Don't come wicked wearing ripped jeans and balanciagas and the leftist button and like a green witch hat.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like you don't it's so important to just know where you are and what you're doing and what you're after because that's you know, I think some people do, even in New York sometimes, people kind of almost dress up.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_04: They dress for the job you want, and they think that means put on an entire costume.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_04: And every, you know, maybe for Chicago you're gonna nod to the costume, but you're not gonna put a full-on costume on.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's an important thing that like some people I I can see why you would think that.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_04: I would I I would see why somebody might think you want to do that, but you know, you're gonna either not get the job or you're gonna kind of be made fun of, which you don't want either one of those things.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, not at all.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's a tough it's a fine line with with the outfit for a specific audition.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the the research is hugely important.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: You have to know what you're auditioning for, study the choreographer, study the project that you're going in for to get an idea as to what that is.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: But then just understanding like typical etiquette and typical expectations for the venue and the t style of job is appropriate because, like you said, the New York versus LA, it is crucially different.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: It is beyond, I mean, I would feel uncomfortable, not uncomfortable, but like you gotta turn it up.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh it's about a fashion show, it's about a look, it's about who has the fiercest outfit, whose makeup is the fierce, whose hair looks the best.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: I would go to Los Angeles.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_04: I would go home.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: I know, yeah, it's it's a lot.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're spent, I mean, think about how much you're spending on to have like fierce outfits and looks.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like even for class, it's a fashion show, and it's not just uh let's put our dance wear on.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_03: And in New York, it's very different, but like convention is even very different too.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: And absolutely, you know, we see the fun little outfits and the bright colors and the little two piece or the little uh unitard or whatever.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: And then we also see a shift once you get past teen, where everyone One's just kind of wearing oversized baggy everything.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: And that might not work for every audition.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like if it's the contemporary audition, it might work.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: Or maybe if it's the hip-hop audition, it might work.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: But if I'm teaching jazz, maybe I want to see your lines.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe I want to be able to see your body a little bit better than covered up in an oversized shirt.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm not saying don't wear that if that makes you comfortable, but you better dance bigger and broader past that shirt that's covering you up because you're restricting it from me on the other side from being able to see like, are you finding that contraction?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: Are you finding those shapes properly?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, no understanding how to look polished and sleek and presenting yourself in the best way.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: Because, like you said, the first impression, we're we're seeing who you are.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, oh, that's you.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: Though that oh, I can get an idea of your style and who who you are before we've even danced.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: And it's important.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's interesting.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_04: I watched some of your um footage, Courtney, from when you were teaching at RWS in London for auditions.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_04: And every single female identifying person had on a bra of some sort and high-waisted leggings.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_04: That was it.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_04: So so to me as an outsider, you know, somebody who wasn't physically there watching everybody's talent, every single person looked the same.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_04: And that's one thing to consider too, that like, yeah, maybe this this is the style, maybe this is what people want to wear.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_04: But are you doing yourself a disservice by wearing the same thing everybody else's when you could ja you could wear a leotard and then I'd remember you, hey, that's the girl who wore the leotard, because you're the only one in a leotard.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I I just thought that was really interesting.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I that stood out a lot to me from that audition experience, just watching on your socials.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_03: It is interesting because you become like the like when we don't have your reference, if it's a number or if it's a name, sometimes we can look at your headshot or whatever, or if it's just a number.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: Most of the time we're not, I'm not analyzing your number.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'm being like, oh, the girl in the pink.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, the guy in the white shirt back there.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, the dancer over here that has the cool, beautiful hair.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like we're kind of, we're kind of classifying you as we're watching you quickly because there's 10 people on the floor at the same time in small groups, whatever it is.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: And that's how you have to have some type of signature thing.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I've learned that because I love all black.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's the only color I own.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: But sometimes I'm like, that doesn't always work in an audition because it's not as memorable.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm I'm always hoping for me personally, oh, the the girl with the curly hair.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I hope everyone says.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: Even if I'm wearing all black and hopefully my dancing will make me memorable, but that doesn't work for everybody.
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• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: All of those things are so important.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to make really, really good choices.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: I always urge my students to think about if you were to go into the room and audition and then leave, what do you think they would say like about you?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: Looking through the names, because this also happens.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you guys can relate probably when it comes to judging numbers as well.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: When deciding awards or things like this.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: I tell them, I'm like, if if they have to go back and be like, Courtney, uh, which one was that again?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: And they have to think about it, that means you didn't leave a good the best impression or a strong impression.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because some numbers, they weren't, you know, the cleanest, or some dancers weren't the cleanest, but they left an impression.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh yeah, like weird shaved head girl.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like she was like, uh, but she left an impression, you know.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: So you would definitely want to be remembered.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it's the same thing.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: Courtney says she hopes that they remember I'm the girl with the curly hair all black.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I always go, I know any room that I go into, if they're like, who's DJ?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're probably gonna be like, he's the short muscular guy with the big smile.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like he's the with the energy, like that's him.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's probably what they're gonna say.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I always have people replay that in their head.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is your thing?
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: What are they gonna say about you?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: If there's five DJs, how are they gonna differentiate you from the other two?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so very helpful and valuable to think about as far as you know, standing out and more so making yourself in the space.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_04: That's such a good, you bring up such a good point that I think people need to hear too, maybe not so much in the convention setting, because maybe they're not doing it this way, but certainly for jobs, if there's five DJs, what makes you stand out?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_04: And that is true.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_04: When when Courtney and I would audition together, we're I'm three inches shorter than her.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_04: We're just short girls at this point.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_04: Like when you walk in the room, there's 15 short girls.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_04: They only need one.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_04: What's gonna make them hire you as that one?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and I and that's something that's really, really real once you get into the professional world is that the track is the track.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_04: If there is a short girl track, that's the only one they're gonna look at me for.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_04: I'm 4'11.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_04: They don't, they can't put me in everything.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_04: They're gonna put me in that one job where that one girl has to either get injured, have a baby, quit, or go on vacation.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: And the stars have to align.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: Even like what you were saying, saying before, it's been a long time coming for you to get wicked.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_03: It was a matter of the stars aligning and timing to work out for you.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: All of those things, like it's it helps and it's it's super important.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I've been to auditions even where I'm not sure if you guys have either, but they they literally uh will typecast.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: I I I think like I said, sometimes dancers, because we're dancers, they get trapped in the choreography account.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's like I would say, probably the like there you have to please the choreographer, the director, the artist.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a whole team of people that are looking at you from like seven different lenses.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that there's a music director or depending on what you're dancing for, producers, you know.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: So there's so many other things.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: I've been at auditions where you I've not only had to, the stars not only have to align, but you have to be the best black guy, you have to be the best uh guy in the room as well.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I've made it to the end and they're like, okay, let's see all the like muscular guys in in one group together.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, okay, not only do I have to be the best black guy, but I have to be the best muscular guy here too.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh my gosh.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like And then all 15 of those people have to say yes.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: And all yeah.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's all of those things, you know, it's super important.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I think for can, like I said, for convention, maybe it's different because they're not potentially looking at types, you know, but that is something very real that, you know, and it leads me to my next question.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_04: And Courtney, I'll let you finish what you want to say before I go into that next question.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_04: So go ahead.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they in convention, you know, as much as we're talking about certain roles and there's only a certain number and whatever, I think a lot of people probably think, well, conventions give out a million awards.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like they're only giving it to the best dancers.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, well, not necessarily because it might seem like at those scholarship ceremonies that they're giving out a lot of awards.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: But when you look at how big that room was and how many dancers were in that room, there might have been 200 dancers auditioning in the teen level, and they're really only awarding 10, 15 of those dancers.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: So it is almost like a it is a cut.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_03: It is a, we are narrowing this down because we only have 10 awards to give.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: And and there might be 30 dancers who are on the same level, but there's only 15 or 10 slots.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like just today just wasn't your time.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's a matter of who shows up that day.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: You might have won a scholarship at the convention next door, but there are other people here today and they outbeat you this time.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe it was their technique, maybe it was their outfit, maybe it was their musicality.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_03: You don't know exactly what it is, but you can't beat yourself up is if you gave your best audition, because that's all that you can do each time you go is if you feel confident and happy with what you delivered, it just wasn't your time today, and that's okay.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: But there's gonna be another time for you.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's all a timing thing as well.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: That's a hard thing to like navigate though, as a dancer, because it is a very mental game.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_04: And as a parent, because the you know, parents, that's why I think this is conversation's really important because those that is the real honest truth.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes it's just not your time.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I feel like even with some of my job, DJ, I work for Capezio and product testing, and sometimes I can pull dancers to be models for photo shoots.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_04: That's not my my jurisdiction really, but like I can suggest people.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_04: But half it has nothing to do with anything except for what they're looking for that day.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_04: And it's sometimes it's not you.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_04: And that means absolutely nothing about you.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's true.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: It takes a while, it's a journey.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: But when you start to get more confident and more acquainted with who you are and what you bring to the table, then it's easier to navigate through these situations and to clear the abyss, if you will, uh, so that you don't walk away feeling like you're worthless.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: You just walk away simply understanding I wasn't what they were looking for, but I did my best and I know I felt great.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that's hard.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: It took me a long time as well.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I was like initially, I'm like, am I a bad dancer?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what did I do wrong?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: I can change.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: Give me another chance, you know.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_04: But then everyone's gonna feel that, man, and you can go down a spiral with that.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but then I just like a lot of the times you these are things that you have no control over.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: There's conversations behind.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: I've had friends that have not gotten jobs because they're not good enough.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: I've had people not get jobs because the artists thought they were too attractive and they were intimidated.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Beyonce and Jennifer Lopez, I have friends that have worked for them.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, even Janet, they've made them like change their look or dye their hair or cut their hair because they like them to look a certain way.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to be willing to do that.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of things.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: I've done it.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: I always have a joke I tell some of my kids, I it's a joke, but I'm like, you know, you just you can't be too good because if you're too talented and too good, everybody's gonna use you and they're gonna burn you out and you're just gonna be so overwhelmed.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: But then you can't not be good because then nobody's gonna use you.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you gotta be mediocre.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta be right in the middle.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_04: But somehow stand out enough that you're meet more mediocre than the other mediocre girls.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_04: It is, and you know, and what's the other the other sort of messy part of this too that I think parents, and this is again hard to understand from for anybody, but you could be the very best dancer in the room.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_04: And that feels good to be the very you know you're the best.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_04: You did those turns, you spotted, you held the pirouette at and they're still not gonna pick you.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_03: But it could just be one thing that made it.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: I could have looked up from my sheet and saw you fell out of your double pirouette, and I'm like, oh, that's it.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_04: I missed the other time you held it.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_04: And it just, you know, and so it that is really hard to know that like I know I'm good.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_04: I know I'm good.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_04: Why are they not hiring me?
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_04: And that's just you have red hair.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, pretty much.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's rough.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_04: But so kind of continuing this conversation for the for the people who feel like that, if you continually feel like my kid's not getting a scholarship, I'm not making it to the next cut, I it feels ongoing.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_04: What do you and and you really truly believe you're doing your best?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_04: What do you think is some advice you can give how about how to change your approach?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_04: Is there something that try something different?
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_04: What might be your advice?
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: My advice would be definitely, I'm I'm a huge advocate of training and versatility and just hard work.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think no matter how long you've been doing something, when you're constantly putting in the work and you're constantly molding and harnessing your craft, that's going to show up.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna continue to show up and it's only going to make things better.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: And those are one of the few things that we do have control over.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: I have control over how well I train.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: I have control over my energy, my personality, the way that I dress.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: These are all things that I have control over.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have control over if they're looking for a white guy or a Japanese guy or a black guy.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's not something I have control over.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have control over if they're looking for four dancers or ten dancers.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's not something I have control over.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I try to focus on the things that I do have control over.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: But for any dancer that's feeling like they haven't gotten their day or it's just not working out, first of all, I would say you have to continue to self-encourage, you have to continue to encourage yourself because one of the things that comes with this business is things not going your way a lot.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not comfortable or used to hearing no or not getting your way, you should probably be an Uber driver or try or something for you.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's I always tell people so many auditions that I'm like, I've gone to, I'm like on it.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like that felt good.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: The people at the table, they were cheering for me.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: I know I got it.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yes.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: And everybody was like, oh, that felt so good.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Never called me.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then like, and then there's been other auditions, I'm like, hands ripped, tripping and falling, forget the choreography.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just like, DJ, what that was so embarrassing.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: What are you doing today?
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, we want to hire you.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you're like, after that.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like you never know.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's just uh you never know what they're looking for.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you can only focus on the things that you have control over.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: Be kind to yourself, be honest with yourself.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's always things that you can work on.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: We all have things we can work on, but also acknowledge the things that you do well and that you did well because you need that balance.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's enough people criticizing us, even in the convention world.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: We hear more of the things that we're doing wrong.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: I know my teachers they're point your foot and stretch your knee and shoulders and your timing is off, and like because they want us to be better and they're trying to help our numbers and our our dancing to evolve and to mature and to be better.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: But after a while, it it feels like you're never doing anything right.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: It that translates as you never doing anything right.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're not getting that encouragement from other people, you kind of have to give it to yourself.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: I talk to myself all the time.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'll go, yes, DJ, like you you killed that on stage.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like you, your energy was good, and like you, ah, you really hit that part.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now you weren't on full releve on that turn.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: You need to work on your balance.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then that part, I don't know what you were doing there.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you definitely need to rehearse.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: I give myself both.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: I talk to myself and I keep it real.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I think having that relationship with yourself, it really makes a difference.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: But don't get down.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Most things have nothing to do with you if it's not your day, if you don't get chosen.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: Some things uh you can you can do to increase your circumstances or to make it better, but you have to start looking at auditions as an opportunity to share your talent.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's something that helped me too with my anxiety and with nervousness.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: I go, one of my friends told me, like, think of it this way.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: They're having an audition because they need something.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: They're looking for something.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: And this is an opportunity for you to simply share your talent.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: To be like, you guys are looking for something, you need a solution.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: I got you.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: Out of all these 32 things I have, I'm sure you could use about four or five or six of them at least.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you're presenting what you have.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: You're not like, Oh, I need you, I need you, I need you, I need you.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Cause then it comes across as desperate, and you keep doing any and everything to try to be what you think they want you to be, and you get further away from being yourself, which is what they're looking for in the first place.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's such good advice.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_03: Desperate doesn't always, it's not always a good look.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like a bad look.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_03: Is not a good watching desperation from the other side, and just you can feel it in the like the your energy and the body language, and just you know, even what we talked about where you stand in the room, like I'm watching you the moment you step foot into the space, whether it is a convention, whether it is a casting room, I'm watching you how you walk into the room, what your body language is like, where you choose to stand in the room.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_03: I'm analyzing all of those things.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes for me, like I know some people learn like dead center in the front and they and that's where they want to be.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_03: But sometimes it comes across as a little a lot.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like, whoa, you know, you're kind of in my face right now, and yeah, I can tell how eager you are.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: And it's such a fine line because it's not like I don't want you to not be excited and yeah, want this job.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: But also, are you gonna be a lot to work with?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_03: Are you gonna be, you know, just you know what I mean?
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like you can kind of get that energy right away.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and that goes for the parents too.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_04: If you want to continue to drive home, like parents, your energy is also in the room if you're at a convention during the auditions, and the teachers can see that as well.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_04: They can feel that energy if you're if if you're the parent that's like shoving your kid to the front, that's also not a good look, you know?
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_04: Because because in a convention setting, if you're gonna be auditioning to be an assistant, to be somebody who travels, to be somebody who shows up every weekend to be a part of this community, that means the parents coming too.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_03: So And not saying that that you couldn't your kid might not get in a scholarship, but like you don't want to hinder.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_03: I I mean there people might be like, Well, it's not about the parent.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, then just let your kid do their thing and they will do their thing.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_03: You don't need to, you know, they are children, yes, but I mean, it's just a darn scholarship at the end of the day.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't know, it's so intense sometimes at these conventions.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's a it's overwhelming what I watch.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: I I always tell people it's interesting, and I know the layout of many conventions is different, but like I said, a star is gonna shine no matter where it is in the room.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think the important thing is to be somewhere where you have space to dance and to share your talent, and also where you can see the teacher or whoever's auditioning you.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's what's important, not necessarily being in the front, because I think one, a lot of times people are pushed to go to the front by their parents or their teachers, and it makes them more nervous and they're not comfortable.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you don't doing and if you're not comfortable, if you're not competent and you don't pick up fast and you don't know what you're doing, maybe the front is not a good place for you.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you want to where you can see and where you feel confident and comfortable.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: The second thing to that, too, is I tell people, like I said, depending on the layouts of different conventions and competitions, when we're on stage and we're teaching, actually, at least for me, when you're right in the front, you're beneath my eyesight.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't see you.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: So actually you pushing to the front is the front is really in the middle.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: So not really, you know, doing you any justice anyway.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: So you you want to make sure you have space to dance.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's what's most important because if everyone is getting pushed to the front, which happens a lot, actually, everyone's crammed in the front and nobody has any room to dance.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: Even even if you are great, you can't be great unless you allow yourself to be great.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: So great because you have no room to be great.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: So everybody's trying to be in the front.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I like to go where there's empty space or I can see and I can be seen and dance.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm the same dancer as you.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: We would be audition buddies, like hanging out in the back, and then we go to the front, we smash it.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's just that's just how I do.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that's what I've learned through my years of auditioning.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: But I want to touch on uh something else that's kind of I've been kind of thinking about and uh two things, but we'll start with this one.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_03: Having some type of something in your back pocket, your go-to, your signature, something that screams who you are as a dancer is very important, I think, to to figure out what that is for you.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_03: Because there's a lot of dancers that I see that, you know, let's say if I my audition combo starts with improv and then I'll count you into the combination.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: They're given technique, tricks, fabulousness, all the things, my eyes going to them and they're improv, and then they can't do the combination.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_03: There's no musicality, they don't understand the style, their their timing is off, they're three beats behind, like, you know, looking at the side of their eyes because they can't retain it and remember it.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, is the flash and the tricks and the improv all that matter?
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: What's more important?
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_03: Because you talked about the prerequisite of at minimum, you should know the choreography and know the counts.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_03: But like we've kind of said, especially in convention, these are kids that are still learning that might not.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Able to pick up as fast or might need more time, or maybe you're just a well-rehearsed dancer that doesn't know how to pick up a dance in 30 minutes.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_03: So any anything to add to uh that have you experienced the same?
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_03: Have you seen the same at convention?
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think you have to be strategic.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: I always say, like, when people are playing checkers, you have to play chess.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: So my audition style, because I I get nervous still, is whether they tell you to improv or not, which usually they do, just before the combination, just assume that you're going to improv.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's good to get the nerves, to get the music into your body.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: But the initial improv before the combination, I personally like to keep it chill.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: Don't do too much because you want to be focused and ready to like, it should be like a little warm-up and then like ooze right into the choreography, the counts, the details, and then the improv after, once you've nailed the choreography, I always say, This is a celebration and your and moment to be like, I did everything you asked me for.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I can do this and this and this and this and all of this.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like save it for the end.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think when you do all of those tricks and things, like you're saying in the beginning, you deplete your energy so fast before you done the choreography.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one thing.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then two, you might not you might not set yourself up to enter the choreography in the most prepared manner because you're focusing, your mind is focusing on improving, all this other stuff.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I always think of like Dragon Ball Z or like Mortal Kombat.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you have to channel your energy in for the right before you unleash the big attack.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like ha like that's the choreography.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can do it later at the end.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I think some people they focus on, they have more energy and focus in one area, and it it it lacks in the other area.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: So the fact of the matter is they want to see you do the choreography, the steps, whatever they're asking you to do.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think improv is a a necessary skill, but it's it's an add-on.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: You have to do what they ask you to do, which to my main thing that I would say to take away from just how to stand out at auditions, because I know the the industry and culture has changed.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's so much freedom for interpretation and from the way that you dress and how you present yourself and how you dance with different styles.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think structure gets lost.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you both like I I think we probably all grew up very traditional.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, you trained one way, you have to be versatile, you had to take these classes, you have to do it, it was very structured.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: And now it's like, well, this is how I do contemporary, or this is how this is what I like to wear at an audition.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, but if you're auditioning for the Roquettes and you're wearing baggy clothes and pajamas, like that's not, it's not about who you are.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: People don't people don't pay you to be who you are in the performance world.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: At least not it's not uh normal.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's very rare that you get we're usually playing other characters or wear uh a blank canvas to to be other ideas or other concepts.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to infiltrate who you are within the structure of what's given to you, not the other way around.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that's so good.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's so good.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I think this whole idea, my personal thing about standing out, I always tell people the way that you stand out is by following directions.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: Follow directions.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: Follow directions and do exactly what they told you to do.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to stand out because that applies that that implies that you're you're trying to be seen.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that's you're already gonna be seen.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: This is the whole point of the audition, but you don't want to stand out for the wrong reason.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: So many people at auditions, they stand out for the wrong reason.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're like seven people across the floor at a time, and then there's six.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: And me as a director and a choreographer, I'm like, okay, they don't even follow directions.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they can't count upstage and they don't know what upstage or downstage is.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: Or I'm like, okay, switch lines, and some people are not switching lines.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: So me, I'm like, well, she doesn't follow directions, she's just standing there in the front.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: She's not gonna let anybody else come to the front.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: So like following directions is how you stand out and knowing who you are.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's literally all you need.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to do anything else.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: You being who you are, you were born who you are.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's what's gonna make you stand out.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: You have to trust that, believe that, and bring that in the room with you and simply follow directions, and that's all you need.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: So there is no nothing you need to do to stand out.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: You there's only one of you.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: You're one of one.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: You're already gonna stand out.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: Just make sure you stand out for the right reason by following directions.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_04: Gosh, that's I love that.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I you're so right.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_04: And the culture has changed, and I it makes me wonder what the future looks like in terms of, you know, I I think a lot of dance dancers, dance communities, you know, val they want you to express yourself and be yourself.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_04: And that's kind of what you hear kids say like I love to dance because I love to express myself.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_04: But when in reality, if you're going to express yourself on the Roquette stage, you will get fired because the goal of being a rockette is to be in a line.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_04: And doing the exact same thing and looking the exact same way, which is, to be honest, a lot of professional dance work.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm I'm really curious if like if something will shift in that too in the next 30, 40 years of like, are we now going to pay people to be individuals and express themselves?
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_04: Because you can do that and maybe not get paid.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_04: There's plenty of places you can do that and you're just not going to get paid.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_03: And that's when it becomes the difference between dancer and choreographer is that dancer is told what to do by the choreographer.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's their vision, it's their process, it's their uh art.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_03: And you are just following the instructions.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_03: You're the medium.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm really glad you said this.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_03: And in what you said was m the other part of my question and the interpretation aspect of how far, uh, what how much wiggle room is there to make it yours in an audition?
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I really think again, that comes back down to doing your research and understanding who you're auditioning for and understanding the role and the job or the product or whatever, because there's going to be a lot of choreographers that hate your choices that you're making.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_03: And that is going to be a cut for you because you didn't study them and find out you didn't listen to a podcast like this where we had a choreographer on that said, you know, I just don't like that.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_03: I don't like when people take it too extreme or do too much of their own.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_03: There might be, if in a different scenario, maybe more of a contemporary, more improvisation style movement, they want to see your artistic voice.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_03: And uh that could help you get the job because it's going to be more of a collaborative process.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_03: But it really is a fine line.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes I'll be watching things and it's like, okay, so you're doing my jazz choreography, but it's very contemporary.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe that's you, and maybe you think that you're showing your signature, and it's kind of there, but it's not what I asked for.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I can't really get on board with it.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_03: And it's hard for me to get on board with.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, that's like different scenarios that I've experienced and seen.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the exciting thing about what you said is kind of the truth about our dance world right now, in the sense of convention is preparing us for many aspects of the real world.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_03: And if you think about auditions at conventions, you are actually auditioning as yourself, as the individual.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_03: Because we're not auditioning for a job or a product or a music artist or anything.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's just me.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's just you.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_03: So that but like we just described, when you then shift into professional, it's completely opposite.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_03: The same aspects of the audition process are the same, but now you have to fit the mold.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_03: Now you have to follow the directions.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_03: Now you have to adhere to what exactly the choreographer is saying because they're looking at you in a different way, not just for your individuality.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_03: They're looking at you to fill that hole in the cast or that exact product that they need to cast for in a commercial.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a completely different way to approach how you audition.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_03: That I think could maybe maybe some dancers who are making that transition might be hard for them to navigate as they break into the real world.
• 52:18
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• 52:29
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• 52:42
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• 52:50
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• 53:00
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• 53:07
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• 53:11
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• 53:16
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• 53:22
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• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that I do personally think, you know, it's it's different at different places.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think the bridge could be a little bit more refined from that conventional world to professional.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: And not everybody can be professional, you know, but I I I kind of think that's the whole point of like us teaching these young artists and giving them these experiences and all of this wisdom is to prepare them to go into these worlds.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's it's unrealistic for you to go to a dance convention audition and just wear whatever you want and be whoever you want.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I say this is a develope, and then you do a grand batma and you just do whatever you want, or you add a little pelvic release to the grand batma, and like it's it's unrealistic because any avenue, any any area of performing that you enter, they are very particular.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's easy, usually it's easy to seek out what they want because I find that majority of the time they're very clear, and if they don't know, they say it.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that's your opportunity to fill in the blank, you know.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: So if they're like, you know, on this part, like just something wiggly down to the floor, that's a free moment where you could like do your own thing.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: Me going, it's one, two, three, four, that's not a free moment for you to like three, four, like to zhus it.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: Don't no justifying anything.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's not a good, that's not a smart moment, you know.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to listen and you have to be clear on where are those moments where you have the freedom to do your own thing.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: And usually it's definitely in the improv, but still you want to be strategic with what is the music?
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, what is the project that they give you?
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: A story, what what is the vibe of the choreography they gave you?
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you want to continue to stay in that world and just kind of pinball off of that and not stray too far away.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_00: But following details, super, super important in the acting world, too.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: If the line is hey mom, and you go, hi mom, they're gonna go cut, let's start again.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's hey mom.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: And now the camp, they have to reset.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody has to take their places again, all because you didn't follow directions.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: So understanding it, I think from a wider lens, you know, same thing dance-wise, too, as a choreographer, producer, director.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times I haven't had control over who the dancing artist is.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: They're just like, these are the dancers, and this is what the artist wants.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_00: They want something like this, I don't know, an alien, but like that does ballet, but that has red hair and that's hot.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh it's not really as a I think a lot of times as dancers and choreographers and creatives, it's not really, it's not really dancing or choreographing.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's problem solving.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't choose the dancers, I didn't choose this concept, but they think that you're talented and you have the resources and the capability to deliver.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to figure out how do I please this client, this artist, with these dancers and with this idea and with wardrobe giving me these big things covering their bodies that I had no control over.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: Once again, back to earlier in the conversation, the things you have control over.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: I have control over movement, I don't have control over wardrobe, I don't have control over the dancers.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: This one's not technical, none of them are technical.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna have to go abstract, like maybe like contorted, like weird, like cater to whatever's there, you know.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I think you just have to focus on the things you can change and then not the things that you can't.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_03: And with that, and we say it all the time, that when you get a job, it is no longer a solo most of the time.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_03: So you have to it when it comes to the whole following direction thing, if you are taking too many freedoms, if you aren't going out in groups, a group of seven when that was asked of you and it was your fault, then you are going to, I know immediately as the choreographer who's casting you, that you're not gonna be well easy to work with on set, easy to work with in rehearsal.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_03: You're gonna be the problem.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm not willing to risk the problem.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_03: We don't have time for the problem.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_03: So so I'm not gonna hire you because you don't know how to follow directions.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_03: And you might be the best dancer in that room, but because you made some small choices that you think are whatever, because no one's ever reprimanded you before about that.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_03: No one's ever told you this was wrong before, but you don't know how the people on the other side of the table are analyzing and watching and interpreting those choices that you're making.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_03: So you have to just have be on your A game the whole time.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I also will say, now that I'm saying this, people might be thinking, well, you know, this this should go both ways because there's dancers at convention that come in, barely try, only take the audition class, they win.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_03: They did, they sat out of tap, they'd missed ballet, you know, they're like breaking rules too, but they get rewarded.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_03: There's always going to be people that say that too.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_03: And like, I mean, unfortunately, that's just a part of life, and and some things don't always go our way.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_03: You might be following the rules, you might be following the directions, and others aren't, but they still get it, they still win.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_03: Or maybe they knew somebody, or maybe there's politics involved, or whatever it is.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, or maybe it's Maybelline.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: The point is that it's not your business, and that's why I said you can't focus on how do I stand out.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because to me, that implies that you're trying to separate yourself from everybody else.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're focusing on everyone else, you're focusing on the wrong things.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: You should be focused on yourself and and sharing your talent.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because, like you said, it does happen.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_00: But if I'm focusing on she didn't go to this class and she didn't go to how would you even know?
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you were here with the teacher and zoned in, like to me, I it's I'm not even focused on who's in class with me.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't see anybody else because I'm with this relationship with the teacher.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm invested, so I don't know who's in class and who's not.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_03: It is your class.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_03: It is, it is, you need to make it the most for you.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's not always about what is this person doing?
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_03: What is that person doing?
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_03: I tell dancers all the time, like when I'm auditioning, I don't know, I mean, everyone's different, but I personally can't watch other groups.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_03: When we break into groups, I can't watch other dancers because I learned the choreography, I know what the choreography is.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_03: If I watch someone mess up in a group, I'm gonna start second guessing myself.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I can't be, I'm like, no, it's it is all about me because I need to trust myself that I know what I'm doing.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_03: I can't be watching someone else make a mistake and then I'm gonna go out there and I'm not gonna be confident, you know, own this like I know I should.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm on the side in my zone.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_03: Now there might be other people that want to be watching and it might help them, you know, when you break into groups, uh, and they might you might see what your competition is and it might fuel you, or it might make you intimidated.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's so many different ways to look at it.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_03: Or there's dancers that are literally standing on the side that I can tell they're not even with it.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_03: They're not even there, they could care less, they're not thinking about the aura.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_03: I already know based on how they're standing on the side that their audition's not gonna go good because they're not in the zone.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_03: And you just you have to figure out what works for you when you get into those environments of an audition because it's not just class anymore when you're in an audition.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_03: It is very different.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_03: I don't I don't want you to like overthink it, but you know, just be confident if you put the training in and you put the time in, it's gonna be a high stakes pressure uh experience in an audition.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_03: It always is.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_03: You said it yourself, DJ, that you still get nervous.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_03: I get nervous when I go to an audition every single time because it's scary.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_03: It is it's a different experience than just walking into a dance class and and doing a combination.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_03: There's it's the stakes are higher.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you just gotta, like you said, you gotta know your yourself and you have to know your process.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you said that you don't like to watch.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I totally get that.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'm the opposite.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_00: I I like to watch because I'm just a nerd and just I like I tell my students and lots of people this all the time.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a little live hack.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_00: You guys are more than welcome to use it.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_00: But when I go to auditions, I'm very strategic, even from the moment that I sign in.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: If you have control over it, sometimes you don't.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I never sign in with anybody that looks like me.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that they're probably gonna put us in a group together and it's gonna decrease my chances.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_00: If someone has a look like me and five guys, four of them look like me, instinctively you have to cut somebody.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I sign in, I will go sign in with the white or Asian or Irish people or whoever.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I'll go sign in with people who do not look like me.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the thing.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then also when I'm watching on the sides, I watch and I ping pong back and forth to each group to the people behind the table, this behind the table.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: I look to see where their focus is going, they're looking at, how their body language is responding to them.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then I watch who they cut and who they kept.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's gonna tell you so much.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I like to watch.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like choreography too, and I don't want to freak myself out.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I watch because I'm like, okay, they kept her and they kept him.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, they clearly like them.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what okay, she had a lot of energy, he has a lot of energy.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so that tells me they like a lot of energy.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: Let me try when I go out.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm taking notes for myself.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who are they keeping and why?
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_00: Who were what are they reacting to and why, so that I can sprinkle some of that into my performance.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, both ways.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not that type of person and it freaks you out, and like, you know, like I just have to like tunnel vision and block it out and just go out there and do my thing, that works too, you know.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_00: But you just have to know yourself and your process to your point, Courtney.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_03: Such great advice.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone's process is different.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_03: Every choreographer's gonna be different.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_03: In New York, it's a little bit not easier, but you know, sometimes you can start to understand, like, okay, this choreographer likes this.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm sure in LA too, but oftentimes it depends on the project that you're working on and based on their casting needs.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, you might think, okay, this choreographer loves this type of dancer, but they can't hire that type of dancer for this project.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so as much as you have done your research and taken the notes and seen what works and what doesn't, there's only so much that you can really control when it comes down to those casting things.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_03: And and oftentimes, like I've been there many times.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_03: You might have relationships with the people behind the table.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_03: You might make it through a few cuts, but they already know, like, I'm just putting you through because we have a relationship and you're a great dancer and you're talented, but and I wanted you to get in front of this director, but I already know I can't hire you because you don't fit the specs.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_03: And and that's an unfortunate reality, too, about it is just like the whole process of casting and the whole game of auditioning, everyone has different, you know, experiences with it.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I love what you said about the who gets kept and who gets cut thing.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think that is important because sometimes we're not analyzing how people got selected or why.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_03: And it and it should be looked at as okay, this is help, this is research.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_03: This is for next time.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna take these notes down.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_03: And something I never did that I think is a helpful recommendation to dancers who aren't breaking into the industry for auditions.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_03: Get a journal.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_03: They have a bunch of different types of audition journals that exist out there, or use a Google Doc on your computer.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_03: Write down every audition that you go to, who was the choreographer, who is the assistant choreographer, what combination did you do?
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_03: Even if you want to get even more detailed, film yourself doing that combination.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_03: You never know if you're gonna revisit it down the road, and then you already have a reference, so you can revisit it and before you go in again.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_03: And write down what you wore, what color you wore, and then take some notes as far as did you get kept?
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_03: Did you get cut?
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_03: Who got kept?
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_03: Who got cut?
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_03: Why?
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, take notes.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_03: Every single time you go, you're gonna learn from your next audition.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_00: It helps.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_00: It it really does.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a muscle that you have to flex.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_00: Auditioning, it's a technique and it's a skill to it.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like you just have to, like I said, there are so many things I learned.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_00: I I I bring three pair of outfits every audition I go.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_03: And every shoe.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_03: Every shoe.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: There's been auditions I've gone to and I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna wear all black and I get there and everybody's looking like fashionable and fly.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh no, costume.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, 100%.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_00: Or I'm like, oh, I'm overdressed, all black.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_03: You know what's nice about LA though is that you can put all your outfits in your car.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_03: I remember New York auditions are the worst because we are the bag people.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like, and I hated that about like if they didn't say that we needed like tap shoes or something, and they're like, we're gonna do a tap portion, and everyone's like, no one said.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_03: And then there's the few people that have like a million bags that are like, I have my tap shoes.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I'm not hauling these tap shoes around New York City if they didn't tell me to bring tap shoes.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_04: And then you're asking the girl in the next group, Can I borrow your shoes?
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_03: Are you okay?
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_04: Like, ugh, the worst.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_03: It is.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_04: Oh Oh my god, audition life.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_00: Make it work.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_04: We make it work.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_04: I don't miss it.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_04: But I was definitely that girl who I would look around the room.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_04: I can't I can't sign in after the really tall girl because then she looks too tall and I look too short.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_04: So I have to sign in after the girl who's like five five.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's a whole mathematical game.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, but it helps it really helps.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_00: I've it's a strategy and it's something that and it's like those small things, like they really make a difference.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_04: Uh even like it made it made me feel better to do it that way because because I knew for like all the short girls that I would audition with, we all knew we knew there was one role.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_04: It's not gonna be all of us, so why would we do that to ourselves by putting all five of us in the same group?
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_04: You know, at least give everybody a little bit of a chance to be seen and not overlooked.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_00: So and even signing in too.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like I like I said, if you have control over it, knowing your process and knowing yourself, I personally I like to go towards the beginning middle, not not at the end.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like going in the beginning for me, it's so much pressure because I'm like, oh my gosh, like I'm first, like I'm in I'm in the first couple groups, like I get really nervous.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_00: But then if you go towards the end, they've seen so many people and they're tired, kind of like judges over the weekend, like you know, have a fresh pair of eyes.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_00: So like by the end, they've seen a lot.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you gotta be really amazing because you've had like practice and they've seen everybody else before you.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_00: So you gotta be something spectacular.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I like to go like in the middle or like beginning middle, so that you know, I have just enough time to practice, but just enough so that I'm still your eyes are still fresh and you can really take me in.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that's another thing too, where you go, what order you go in if you have control over it.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_00: At dimensions, you don't.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta deliver what where you're placed in the schedule.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_03: But exactly.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna say that not always, just so people understand.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_03: You might not always have control about where you end up in in the audition process, as far as if you're in the first group, second group, last group, whatever.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_03: And also you don't you definitely don't have control as far as where most likely where you stand on the floor when you go to an audition, especially in New York City, where I don't know if they do the same where they put the head shots out and they want you to be in that formation.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_03: Upstage corner, downstage, upstage, downstage type of formation.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_03: So, like the cards weren't in your favor today.
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_03: You got upstage corner and you're not right in front of the panel.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_03: So, how do you stand out when you're up there?
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, it does, it does happen, but yeah, like I keep saying, like, focus on the things that you you do have control over, be kind and encouraging to yourself and do your best and follow directions more than anything.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_00: Just follow directions, you know.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um a lot of a lot of people you would be surprised are not good at following directions.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I always like to tell people that are trying to stand it out.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people are already standing out by not following directions.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_00: You'd be asked for seven, and then you have nine going across the floor, then you have three, and then you have nobody going across the floor and all bodies wearing red, or they say this is the double, and people are doing six, and then late for the next piece of choreography, like just follow directions.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because the choreographers and the directors and people behind the table, guess what?
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_00: They also have to follow directions.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_00: They're here because their boss told them we need people that can do this, this, this, and this.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_00: So they're telling you to do this because this is what they were asked to find.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're not, it's everybody there, nobody's doing completely what they want.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody is working towards a bigger picture, and there's a reason why they're asking for these things, and a reason why they're asking for them to be done in this way from every department acting, dancing, wardrobe, directing, payroll.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, why it's every two weeks, everything.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you don't know the why, there's a reason.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to understand all of the bigger pictures that are associated with that.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_03: We hope you enjoyed our latest episode, all about how to stand out at auditions.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_03: Huge shout out to our special guest, DJ Smart, for joining us on this chat.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_03: Be sure to follow him on social media.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_03: You can find his personal account at DJ SmartJr, his personal training and nutrition coaching account at SmartZone Fitness, and his choreography, creative direction, and improvement coaching account at Smart to Stick Vision.
• 1:10:25
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• 1:10:38
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• 1:10:51
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• 1:10:56
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• 1:11:01
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• 1:11:09
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• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_04: We have more great episodes coming your way on season six of Making the Impact.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_04: Stay tuned for episodes on choreography, team building, and more.