Latest / Vibe Sesh Podcast / Vibe Sesh #18: What Lies Beneath the Behavior?

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Vibe Sesh #18: What Lies Beneath the Behavior? · Vibe Sesh Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Dr. Monica, good to meet you.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Can I just call you Monica?
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Please, please.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: Literally no one calls me that.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody calls you Dr. Monica?
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's disrespectful.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Some people should call you that.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: What are you talking about?
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, I'm good.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Some people,
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: they like,
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: they're a little sensitive about that,
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: because they put in a lot of work and, you know, you kind of build up that identity.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: I have the white coat.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Remember she was saying that yesterday, Cisco,
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: last five sessions with the veterinary and having the white coat and getting
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: the degree.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: So she wanted, she was looking forward to that kind of respect, right?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm good.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Monica's perfect.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, so, Monica, so you use the same wine cup?
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh!
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: I have
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: LaCroix, too.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: Is that LaCroix?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: I do have that, too.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: I have water.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: But, like, I didn't know, like, if you were, like, you know, you're this monk-ish, you know.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a monk-ish?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so full of, like, wisdom.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I don't even know.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then I saw you, like, tipping it back.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, look at me.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: I also have this.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh, it's a sign.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Sisko, what are you thinking of her vibes?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think, like, just all our vibes are just attracting our people, man.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: This is crazy.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: She's a Vibe Samurai, bro.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: She feels grounded down to earth.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm excited for the conversation.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know why?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because, Monica, so you're very interesting.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: And first of all,
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: let's give her a preview in terms of what it takes to put together a show,
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: a vibe sesh, so she feels special in terms of what we're doing here, Cisco.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Go ahead.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: So for vibe sesh every Monday and Wednesday?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Bruno here, the Vibe Samurai, he's putting a lot of the effort forward.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: He likes to curate interesting people across the feed and follow him.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: And he just leads with a curiosity.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: So we've talked to so many kinds of people and he likes to do a deep dive
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: on your account and whatever links you have.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: And he's a master threader.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: He has a journey of questions and sometimes we get to it.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes we completely never get to it.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Just let the vibes of the conversation go.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: I love curiosity.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: I love.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: Literally, I have.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't have a stand.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm never on.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: Have you noticed I'm never on my videos?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's like.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, why?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: Because I don't like to be on camera.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't have one of those like stands that people use.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I have a stack of books holding up.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my God.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: Why are you so ghetto, bro?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you so ghetto?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't you just buy a fucking stand?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's so OT though.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's so like occupational
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: therapy.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: She said that's so OT.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like we know what that means, bro.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: But like one of the books that I have is called Cultivating Curiosity.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel like it's like vibes, right?
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: You're right there.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Monica, but I do feel like that.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like at the end of the day, you're all about vibes.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Emotional, really.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Emotional things, whether it's good vibes, bad vibes.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: You're all about vibes.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Your story is just so amazing.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know where to begin.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: You are vibes.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: You've been studying vibes, right?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Emotional.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: And you can go into detail, but I'm breaking it down just as vibes.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you are a late diagnosed ADHD person.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: And now you came into this field with a mission to help children pay attention
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: and understand their brains, right?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: And just on the late...
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like the ADHD part, like, can I run it back for a second?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't mean to cut you off, Cisco.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, it goes everywhere.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: Can I know about like Cisco for a second?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because I know I've watched so many of your videos and actually I just,
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: my 14 year old son who's autistic,
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: I just, he's like my barometer of everything that's good and bad.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like, he's amazing.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: He's absolutely brilliant.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this amazing philosophical mind.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just, like, telling him, like, he's on game with his friends.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, you've got to kind of be quiet because I'm going to do this thing.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: Look, this is the guy.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: And it was, like, your video about the monk with one eye.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: And, like, and he's like, He's awesome.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: So, first of all, he's vibes.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Your son said that?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: He said, I'm awesome.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: I am so honored.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: I am so honored.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: This philosophical barometer,
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: this person that she considers,
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: think about how,
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: what an honor,
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: barometer, philosophical mind at 14 years old, and he likes the vibesamurai.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing something right, guys.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: No, like, he was, when he was little, I, he understands, like, Buddhist concepts.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, he, um, I was like, what's your favorite number?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: You understand Buddhism, right?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like you have a...
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, pretty good.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: But I was like, what's your favorite number when he was little and he was like 108?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: And you know what that number is, right?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm on that level.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a sacred Buddhist number, right?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like when they have the big,
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: like the malas that you do in your meditation, there's 108 beads on it, right?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: This is a very sacred whatever.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway,
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: I just went off on another tangent.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: But Cisco, like, can you tell me your deal?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because I kind of feel like I need to know.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way,
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: before you go,
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Monica, we called the ethics board, but they wouldn't return my calls.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's okay because for the past three Vibe sessions,
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: we've been using Cisco as an experimental guinea pig because he has a lot
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: of real issues.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I really think, Monica, today you're going to get a lot of help and a lot of insights.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not kidding you.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: I've studied this woman.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, so go ahead, Cisco.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not talking too much.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm 25.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm half Bruno's age and our journey
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: together.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to stumble into appreciation.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: So for the past year on Twitter,
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: which is now X, we've been hosting a vibe sesh X Spaces, which was audio only.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been his co-host or that entire journey.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we've I've spoken to just hundreds of people, even a stage that can get up to 10 people.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so he's been helping me get out of my shell because I was very introverted.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I like to think of myself as I'm a Vibe Samurai in training.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess I've done a good enough job that,
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: now that he's transitioned to Instagram where he blew up,
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: you know, he's more of a key on X, but he blew up on Instagram and TikTok.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then he just transitioned to vibe sessions being on video on here.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: He's continued on this platform and he's asked me to continue being a co-pilot.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm here to just practice speaking and to meet new people and to ask good questions.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's really what a Vibe Samurai is about.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Just meeting with my curiosity and trying to ask great questions.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think of it like I try to give you a layup so you can dunk.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to try to ask you good questions.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, I'll be quiet and I'll let Bruno cook.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, he's the main Vibe Samurai.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you're the
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: assist guy.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: You're the assist.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, bro, he's ready for primetime.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: You're ready to be the main dude.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: That was amazing.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: He's like the white chocolate of Vibe Samurai, right?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: The white chocolate of Vibe Samurai.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's the name of the freaking episode.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: White chocolate Vibe Samurai.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, my God.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, man.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Did you think Monica was gonna be like this, bro?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Bro, all our guests are so amazing.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: When we go live, you're a different person than on the videos, Monica.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Where's this Monica?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, I know.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: This is me, though.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: This is me.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: I try to be, like, more serious on the videos.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: But, yeah, I do love basketball.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: I do love basketball.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: Appreciate the assist.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: But Monica, so I was going back.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you're the vibes person, right?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I was saying you were going to address it.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Your vibes, ADHD, late to diagnosed, right?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: So you have an insights view where you can tell us adults what's going on in
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: the mind of an ADHD person.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: What is that like?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, bring me into that world.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so wait, can I start with kind of a little bit of my backstory?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: Just because it relates to vibes.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then I learned that vibes was like mindfulness, right?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: So when I first graduated, I was a single mom.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I started as like the young mom.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: And now like I ended as the old mom.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: I have four kids.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: So like I'm your age.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: I was a single mom,
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: and the first job I got out of college as an occupational therapist,
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: I was working at an institution for people with severe and profound intellectual
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: and physical disabilities.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I was super interested in sensory processing and how all the senses worked,
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: and that's a big,
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: Aspect of what we do as occupational therapists,
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: it's called sensory integration, right?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just fascinated because it tied into so much neuro and it just explained a lot.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I had some sensory differences.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just answered a lot of questions for me when I was kind of pursuing
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: that tract of knowledge beyond my degree.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so my boss was like, oh, hey, you want to learn sensory?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: I've got a special caseload for you.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I had a caseload of about 75,
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: 80 people,
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: and almost everyone on my caseload was either blind,
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: deaf, or deaf and blind, and had a severe to profound intellectual disability.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: Most of the people on my caseload had been living in an institution for years.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: So now when you think about that,
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: think about the fact,
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: think about living somewhere,
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: think about living in your So think about living for decades in a place where
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: the only people you came in contact with were paid to be in contact with you, right?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so I had a caseload of people who were,
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: a big subset of my caseload, they were deaf, blind, and highly aggressive, right?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Because they were defensive, they didn't know what was going on.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so I learned very quickly that If I was going to help the people on my caseload,
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: I had to just be present.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: I had to get them to gain my trust in some way.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so I started learning through touch, through vestibular input.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: I ended up doing,
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not going to get into it, but I designed this whole huge sensory building.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I had these, this one room that was like, had these big giant drums, right?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: They were wooden drums and they were multi-tonal.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: They had slats cut into them.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so people like who were deaf could lay on them and I could play
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: and they could feel the music.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: Cause you have,
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: you have actually auditory receptors in your skin cells because
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: when those organs differentiate, they overlap.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: So that you can actually feel sound, right?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: The idea right here.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: It was really super cool.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I learned that there had to be a different way.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it was really just being present.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: And it's,
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: people now would say that it's just boring to be still and do nothing and wait.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: Waiting is so hard.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Waiting is so hard, right?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I've asked so many.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: I had this one.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: I do like different units each week.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I had this one unit where I was like,
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: I asked kids,
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: I was like,
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: would you rather wait for like 60 minutes with nothing to do
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: or just have someone just punch you in the face really hard?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: And they all said, like, get punched in the face.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think every single person was like,
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: just punch me.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: Just punch me and let's get it over with.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it just.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Cisco, what's your answer?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: What's your answer to that?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: I've heard of this where people would electrocute themselves rather than be bored too.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: Be bored, yes.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: There are multiple studies.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: You too, Cisco, or what?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because you get bored.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's a study about it.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I'm saying if you were there, what would you press, Cisco?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: You, because you said you can't stand boredom.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: You told me.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: For the sake of it, sure, I'll get punched, I guess.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Just to be funny.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: But Monica,
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: it's interesting that you like boil it down to,
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: you just say it like casually or just like be present.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's the thing.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Just be present.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: But what does that mean?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like when you say just be present.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean, just, I guess be with somebody.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: And the only thing on your agenda is being with somebody.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's,
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: and I think it was really hard because a lot of those,
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: and I had to,
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: I had to work on myself in those moments because I was, Man, I got punched.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: I got kicked.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: I got scratched.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: I had tetanus shots.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: I got bitten.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: I got it broke the skin.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was working with people who are highly aggressive.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: But like I said, they had so much trauma, right?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like they had been misunderstood for so long.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: So like I had this woman who she would a lot of self-injury, right?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: So she would like she would hit herself in like Hit her throat,
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: like dig in her throat and all of that.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so they put her in restraints.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: That was a lot of thing.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: When I came in and I ended up doing this,
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: this job led me to my mentor,
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: which led me to being, having the privilege to do, I did like 17 years.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: I worked as a consultant for the Department of Justice and their civil rights division.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: And we went around to institutions and I worked on all these different federal cases.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: So like this job led me to that.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: But I have so much,
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: I have so many stories about the way people are mistreated
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: when they You wrote something in the little promo poster,
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: which was lovely, by the way.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you like that?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: I paid attention to details, man.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: All these little things.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even understand.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, dude, I was asking AI, do lotuses really?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: I thought lotuses were on the water, but the flower usually is not in the water.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: Stick up a little bit.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: But...
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: So like you wrote something about invisible something or other, right?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like invisible struggle or whatever.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: But like when people can't speak, right?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: Or have a language impairment or it's all invisible.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: So this woman, they had her in restraints.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: They had her on sedated.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, you know what?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: Because she was having trouble with eating too.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, let's just do an Like, let's just do some tests.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: Let's do some testing.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: Let's see what's going on here.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: And it turned out they did like a upper GI.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: It turned out that she had a massive hole in her esophagus.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: The acid,
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: she had such bad reflex and she had some issues with her stomach
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: and she ended up getting a procedure to help with it.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: But she, can you imagine, like, I don't know if you've ever had like heartburn, right?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: So imagine heartburn so bad, it burns a hole in your esophagus.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: And she couldn't speak.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: She was trying to tell people and they restrained her.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: So like when I tell you I've seen behaviors that We're like people fighting
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: for their lives, right?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: But they were labeled as having behaviors.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's kind of where I came from.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: And now working with kids who are just like popping somebody in the classroom
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: because they can't read or whatever,
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: but they're struggling,
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: they're trying to cope and they don't want to look,
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: they'd rather,
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: kids would rather look, and I'm using quotes, I'm using air quotes, okay?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: Kids would rather look bad because I don't think any kid's bad.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: Kids would rather look bad than dumb, right?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think any kid's dumb either.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: But when I say I've seen behaviors, I've
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: seen behaviors.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: And that start in that job has just guided pretty much everything I've done since.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean,
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: like I said,
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: I could tell you lots of stories from that era of my life and how they shaped now.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: What was the transition?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm assuming it wasn't mainly adults and then you transitioned to working with children?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: I was curious about that.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Why did you end up doing more pre-kindergarten, kindergarten?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I don't know.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: You tell me the ages that you focus on.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: So right now I do kindergarten through high school.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's where I'm at.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: I was working and I was doing I was working with adults.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: I even when I did the DOJ stuff,
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: I was considered like a consultant or they call me air quotes again, like expert.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: I was I always had a caseload.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: So when I left that job,
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: I ended up moving and I started just doing outpatient pediatrics
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: because I just needed something that I could do when I was home from traveling.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I started having more kids and taking them with me when they were babies.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then I needed something that I could do while I was here.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I could have just made it because consulting money is good, right?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like public therapy, Public school therapy money is not good.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm doing now.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Not good.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: But consulting money is fantastic.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let's go.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: I could never go in and tell other people what to do if I wasn't actually practicing, right?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I love about your clinical.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: So clinical.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so I did all that work.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: And then I transitioned to after the DOJ stuff,
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: I got the privilege to work on a case in Arizona
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: where I was not there was no litigation.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: There wasn't a case like the institution wasn't being sued by the federal government.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: This institution just wanted to be better.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so I said, if I'm going in there and doing it.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to get licensed in Arizona.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: My mentor's like, this is your case.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: You've got it.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: You're taking over.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: I had, you know, a psychiatrist.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: I had like a whole team of people.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, we're all getting licensed in Arizona.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: And we're all going to actually do, we're not going to just go tell them what to do.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to show them what to do.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: So that was where I kind of developed the model that evolved into the model
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: that I wrote about in my book.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, which is, what is it called?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's, there was a name.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's called mindfulness for preschool and kindergarten.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I was working and I had done a ton of training and it was really like I was working.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: My goals were just quality of life because when people are living in an institution,
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: a lot of times they're just trying and they have their complex medically.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: They're just trying to keep them alive.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: But they're not living.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll never forget this,
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: I was coming in,
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: we'd do this thing,
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: like I would do these things where I would try
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: to just like figure out what people love,
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: you know, and I'd expose them to a lot of different things.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: If they're in a wheelchair, I'd get them on the floor, we'd do music, we'd do everything, right?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: Different smells, different, just like depending on what the person, you know, could do.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember this woman telling me that they had been there,
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: this person was like 60 years old,
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: they had been there their whole life,
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: and for decades no one had ever seen them smile.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, cool, our goal is to get them to smile, right?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: It was all about quality of life, right?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: So that case was probably my favorite thing I've ever done in terms of work.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because we had, again,
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: it's a lot,
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: and we don't need to talk about it right now,
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: but there were just really extraordinary experiences of people Having quality
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: of life, like seeing them be happy, right?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: Seeing them have joy.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like I always feel like my thing when it comes to the heart of everything is play, right?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: So many mental health issues could be solved in adults if we just played,
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: if we kept playing, right?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I know...
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so simple, guys.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Seriously.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Just keep everything playing.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: Keep playing.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: Just keep playing.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: And...
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I think from there,
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: I had a case like everything was like kind of winding down with the consulting,
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: I was having more babies.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so I decided to stay put.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I got a job in the school system.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so I started kind of drawing a lot of parallels.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: But at the same time,
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: I still kind of I wanted to I was doing research,
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: I still wanted to get to I've done a lot of like,
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: I've published a lot in like journals and things like that and research studies.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: But um, I had a friend of mine who I worked with on a civil rights case.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: She reached out to me and she's like, Hey,
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: so you know,
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: all that stuff you do with adults and all that stuff you've done with training
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: and blah, blah, blah.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: She's like,
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: could you come,
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: could you create a program for preschool kids who are like living in poverty?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: I just moved.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: I was in kids because I worked on a case in Kentucky.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, I was there.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: And now I just got a job.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm, I'm the CEO of this, um, uh, like nonprofit, right.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: And and I love this woman's phenomenal.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: She's like super like visionary, you know, great, great ideas.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like honored.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, absolutely, I will.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I love that so much.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I at the time had, you know, kids at that age and who are that age.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I started digging deep into the research.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: I was already working with a lot of young kids in my outpatient practice.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: I did a lot of work in Head Start,
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: in daycare, in preschool, home therapy with kids, young, a lot of young kids.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so I created a whole program and we ended up,
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: it was actually really cool because we ended up,
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: one of the books in my stack is,
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: I went to a conference to present on my initial data from my first study in Italy.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I met these professors from South Korea and they're like,
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: hey, can we take your program and translate it into Korean?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the books in my stack is like a version of
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: that.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: All right, go Korea.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: We got to do a whole other set of research studies in South Korea.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so it modified it a bit, you know, culturally modified it.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: But so that was kind of where I got into the young kids,
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: like doing the work for taking meditation, which I was doing.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I was doing mindfulness trainings.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: Even when I was working at the hospitals,
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: every time we'd have a meeting and I'm talking like Medical doctors,
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: nurses, therapists, we would meditate, right?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'd ring the bell and we'd meditate.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll never forget the one time I knew I had buy-in, right?
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: Because you can give them research studies and be like, you need to be present.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: My mentor, his name's Nerve Singh.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: He's actually the editor of the journal called Mindfulness.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: He's the goat.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: He's the goat of mindfulness?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: He's amazing, he's published a ton of research and like his studies
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: He would be working with kids who are having all these crazy behaviors and a lot
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: of aggression and he would just train the parents.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: We would just train the caregivers.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: You don't do anything with the kids and you see measurable benefits for the kids
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: because of the vibes.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: You're training them, you're working on their vibes, you're getting them stronger.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: You're seeing all these measurable,
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: quantifiable differences in reduction in child aggressive behavior, right?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: But you didn't do anything with the It was just vibes.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: She's creating Future Vibes Samurai, bro, through her training.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: She's creating Future Vibes Samurais, people who are super in touch with the vibes, like us.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so now back where were we?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so meditation.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: So this one meeting we had, there was this guy, he was 19.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'll never forget.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: He had a...
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: Super rare condition that affected his autonomic nervous system, right?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: He couldn't regulate anything.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: And he had lost most of his vision, but he would hit himself.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: They couldn't count how many times he hit himself in a given day.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: They would try to keep data or whatever, and they couldn't.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: And it was just because, I mean,
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: think if you couldn't regulate your body temperature,
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: you couldn't regulate pain, he couldn't regulate anything autonomically, right?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a really, really long name.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd probably mess it up right now if I tried to say it.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway,
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: they're like,
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: every time they'd have a meeting about a certain patient,
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: they'd say like, oh, let's bring the patient in so they can listen.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: Even if they're not like cognitively able to, you know, participate in the meeting.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: We just want to like honor them and have them in this meeting.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so we are going to have this guy's meeting,
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: which by the way,
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: the first thing I did was ask the therapist to take him to a trampoline park,
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: which was amazing.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: He like had a blast.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like he loved it.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: I love this.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: The medication, bro, is trampoline park and play, bro.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: One million percent the medication was trampoline.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like he's on all these psychotropics.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, let's get him bouncing.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: So we take it.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway, so they're like, we can't take him in there.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: He's going to freak out.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: He's going to hit himself.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: So he comes in and he's hitting himself.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, you know what?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: We're just going to do what we do.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I ring the bell, right?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like the meditation bell.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: No word of a lie, everybody went into meditation.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: We only did five minutes.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: He just put his hand, he had a wheelchair, like his hands down, just chill.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like he felt the whole room.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: And there were probably like 15 people on his team, right?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: All meditating.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: He was just chill.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was, and everybody after that, I rang the bell.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: That is so crazy.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because you put him in a, you put him in a situation where there were 15 other super regulated.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like co-regulating.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's like super power co-regulate.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like co-regulation to the nth degree.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: So like, and that wasn't the first time we did that.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's how we changed We'd say,
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: give us your toughest person and let's just get them in a room
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: and see what we can do.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: And it was just pretty incredible.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I thought it was a tangent.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry, I forgot.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I started doing the research in Missouri and my kids started becoming of school age.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, I'm just going to work at their school.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: So that's how I started working with kids.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: I guess when I started working with kids,
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: even though their abilities were extraordinary compared to the people I was working
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: with previously in terms of cognitive abilities,
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: physical abilities, just what they could do.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: They were having so many of the same struggles.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: They were having so much of the same type of suffering because they were misunderstood.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: So this was tonight's theme.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the poster thing that you were talking about, Monica.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: But what adults call bad behavior,
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: bad behavior may actually be an invisible struggle they haven't taken the time
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: to understand.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that's kind of the underlying theme of all your work?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: I do, I do.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think,
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think our habits and our behaviors are like high def,
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: full color, right, on display.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: But I think our intentions are almost always invisible, right?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like our intentions are invisible.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so many of the kids I work with, their goals, their intentions, Are misinterpreted, right?
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because people can't see them.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like kids really do want to do well.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: They really, you know, they want the same things everybody, they want to be accepted.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: They want to feel safe.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's a huge one.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: They want to feel safe.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: They want to be able to be themselves.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's a huge need I see going unfulfilled.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: Kids want to be able to be themselves, right?
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: And they want autonomy.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: They want to feel competent.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: They want,
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: you know, they,
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: of course,
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: they want Acceptance,
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: I just so I think that there are these basic human needs that kids have,
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: and it's really hard when they it's hard to learn, right,
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: or do anything that's related to,
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: that higher cognitive processing,
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: there's a scaffolding, if they don't have those basic needs met.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: Some kids are super good at masking, right, but it all comes out.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: It definitely all comes out eventually.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of times with behavior,
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: when we talk about behavior, we look at what people call like the squeaky wheel.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: But I think the kids that worry me the most are the silent ones, are the quiet ones, right?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_02: The kids that aren't saying anything,
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: the kids that are masking,
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: the kids that are holding everything in,
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: the kids,
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: those kids are so and I know I look at behavior, I get referrals for behaviors.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: But the kids I really worry about the most are the ones that are super, super quiet.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Why is that?
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Why is that?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Why super quiet though?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of times kids have, I mean, sometimes kids are just like quiet, right?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like sometimes kids don't have to talk.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: But a lot of the times when kids are masking, right?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: They're putting up a front.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's because they're in that,
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: I guess you would call,
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: if you think about, people talk a lot about fight or flight or freeze, right?
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: They're in like that freeze state.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so...
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's the freeze state.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that, I think we need to check in.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously,
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: we need to check in with our kids who are hitting people and throwing things
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: and not doing their work and ripping up their papers and all of that.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: I see what you're saying.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: They don't cause a problem, so they don't get attention is what you're saying.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: They're not being disruptive.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: They're just quiet.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe they're shy.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, they're introverted.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Do you believe in it?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've considered myself like a hardcore introvert.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's how I describe myself.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: Is that a thing or is that a label in my head?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: How do you think about introversion?
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: This is fascinating.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: And both Cisco and I are introverts.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an INTJ.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: You're an INFP.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you laughing?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know mine.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know mine.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think I'm an introvert.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think I don't know.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know all the J and P and all that, but I do.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm unfamiliar with what you're talking about.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not familiar with it.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: it's a Gen Z
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: thing.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think of, okay, I think of like back to ADHD, right?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: People say that there used to be ADD, right?
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, explain the difference.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: Someone said I'm ADD versus, I thought it was the same thing as ADHD.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so like it used to be ADD,
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: like attention deficit disorder,
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: and then ADHD, which is attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: But now it's just like all ADHD, but it's inattentive type, right?
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then there could be mixed type, and then there could be hyperactive type.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: But this is what I've noticed.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: And this is me.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: My youngest, we're in a neurodivergent household, by the way.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't talk about my kids a lot.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: I especially don't talk about two of my kids a lot.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: I just respect their privacy.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I could, it could be great content.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: I don't do it, though.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: But my youngest, anyone who knows my youngest.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Great content.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Damn, I wish I could do it.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: It would be so amazing.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: I go viral.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: One million followers.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: I need to start just saying, like,
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: my student,
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: I knew it was in talking about my own kids, but, like,
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: the moments we've had are, like,
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: and they're beautiful,
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: and I just will keep them forever, but, like, they could be great content.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: But my one, my youngest, like, if you know him, he's like a puppy.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: He is straight up ADHD, just all over the place.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I love that kid so much.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm, I'm what you would call like back in the day,
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: you call ADD, but I am hyperactive in my mind.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like when I see it,
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: like these kids who are considered like inattentive with their,
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: like without hyperactivity, no, their minds are going like batshit.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: Their minds is hyperactive.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Their minds are hyperactive.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I've, I've had this, I had this one girl say it perfectly.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: I was evaluating her and she's like, Some people fidget all the time and they can't stop it.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like I have literally have this like fidget thing I'm doing right now.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: Some people like they need fidgets or they're moving around.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, but I fidget with my mind.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, what do you mean?
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, I'll see something over there across the room.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll be like, how would I play with that?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'll be like, well, I wonder why.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: I wonder why.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: I wonder why.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, when I wonder that's fidgeting and like with my mind.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so she's like, this is a video right there.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, I do fidget, but I just don't, like, you know, she doesn't move.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like, she's just, it's mentally, right?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: Is she keeping hold of this conversation and then the fidgeting is happening?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, great question.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: Great question.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: Or was she completely distracted by the fidgeting and not paying attention?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: More of the second thing.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, she's straight up not paying attention to her teacher.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: But she wants to.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: She wants to.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: She knows she's supposed to.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, it's just, it's hard.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's, it's very hard when you have,
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: have you ever had like a piece, like a popcorn stuck in your teeth?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's so salient.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, it's like your whole world.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's much.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: You're right, at that moment, you don't care about anything.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're right, oh man, this is another video idea.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God, popcorn stuff.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody could be telling you where to find treasure and they're like,
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm only going to tell you once,
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: but the popcorn is there and you have to get it out, right?
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's terrible.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: Massive.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, Monica,
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: but I want to know,
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: can you tell us a little bit more about Monica before Dr. Monica?
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: So like you were late diagnosed with ADHD.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: So help us walk us through like what your world was like
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: when you didn't have people like you helping people, right?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and you were late.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you understood all this stuff later.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: So what can you tell us about that whole experience?
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was just,
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: I was, I always had a lot of, um, Anxiety, for as far back as I can remember, right?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: I had a lot of anxiety.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it was just because I knew I was different.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: My mom said,
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: she's like,
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: I would watch you, like,
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: you would sit at,
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: she's like,
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: I would go to the front door,
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: and I had these,
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: like, little socks that, like, folded over or whatever with ruffles on them.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like,
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: you would sit there for,
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: like, half an hour and just, like, to make sure that they were even.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, she...
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like I just, they had to be even, right?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like they,
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: I would just stare and just fold them and fold them and fold them and like,
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: I guess you could call that OCD.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: But like, I just, I mean, I,
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: I always,
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: I felt like I had this really rich internal life and I was always like in school,
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: I was gifted, considered gifted, right?
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: I, um, I was in the gifted program.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I did really well academically.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: I, um, But I never, I was late.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: Everything was late.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: There was shit I didn't do.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: I started skipping school when I got old enough to do so, right?
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like you could go, the school I went to, I'm in South Florida.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: You could go,
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: like there's this big road and you could turn lefts And go to school,
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: high school, or you could go straight and go to the beach, right?
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it was just this every day.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, my God.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: What a temptation, bro.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: Bro, I would
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: have done the same.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have any details.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: I would have done the same, bro.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: Every skippy?
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Come on, man.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: I just made a lot of poor to sit.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: I was very impulsive.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: I remember I went to get my friend at one point at one of these times
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: when I was supposed to be going to school.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: And she was supposed to be going to school.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'll never forget, I had this really old Volvo, right?
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I go to pick her up,
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: and we're supposed to be in school,
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: and I'm like, let's go, and I'm just speaking to the impulsivity.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so I go to, it's old, right?
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so I go to put it in reverse,
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: back out,
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: and then I go to put it in drive, and I hit the gas, still going backwards.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: Put it, weird, put it in reverse, Going backwards.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: Put it in drive, still going backwards.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: Put it in neutral, still going backwards.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, let's go to the mall.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, let's go to the, we can do it.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: We can do it.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: We can definitely do this.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: Let's, we were going to go to the mall.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: Let's go to the mall.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, every gear's backwards, except for park, right?
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: So we start going down this, like,
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: long straight,
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: which is the same road,
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: by the way, that you would go to go to the beach, but we weren't going there.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: We were going the other way to the mall.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, this is a really bad idea, right?
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, this is a really bad idea.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I go, I'm like, I'm going to like pull in.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: We're going backwards.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_02: I am 16, right?
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not a good driver forwards yet.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: Woman on a mission, girl on a mission, bro.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: She's on a fucking mission.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of a long stretch.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: And now I'm actually back home where I grew up.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because I moved home several years ago to kind of help out my parents.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: But I go to pull in to the first place I see to pull in.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's a drug and alcohol rehab center.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm pulling in backwards.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: Pulling in to the parking lot backwards.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: She's jumping out.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: I put it in neutral.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: She pushes the car forwards.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: We finally get out of there and get back to her house and call it tow truck.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: But...
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_02: I did a lot of very stupid jokes.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: Monica, Monica, you wrote a book, write this book as well now.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like your whole life through your angle.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: That would be an amazing story, no?
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: She's going through this whole thing and she understands all the things
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: and you're giving us like a real, wow.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: No, but like that,
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: I guess,
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: so like I was this like,
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: so I guess growing up,
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_02: I was a common, I was like half that, half perfectionist, right?
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, half of me wanted to be perfect.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: And like I said, I did really well academically.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: I did.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: I was in sport.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: I played sports.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was super competitive.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm still so competitive.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: No shit.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: I remember the first time I played, did you ever play Tekken 3?
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: Because we're the same age.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: Tekken 3?
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: Tekken 3?
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a fighting game.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a video game.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: I know Street Fighter.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's like Street Fighter, right?
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: We have this place called Play Money where it's like you pay and then you go in
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: and play every arcade game as much as you want.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll never forget.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: My son was in a competition, like a video game competition.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: He did really, really well.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: He's young.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's like all these older kids.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: People who probably live in, you know, you'd say, like, they live in their mom's space.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_02: They're, like, crushing it.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: They're crushing all the young kids.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, crushing them.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: Destroyed.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: And he did, like, really, really well.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: But then afterward, we're like, oh, let's all just hang out and play.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then he's like, hey, I want to play this game.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I fucking destroyed him.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't mean to.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I pulled back.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: Where's the presence there, Monica?
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, I was present
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: to winning.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: I was present to winning.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm saying ego check.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: Ego check.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: I felt like the worst human being on the planet.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: I looked at my husband and he's like looking horrified and I'm like,
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: I just wanted him to think I was cool too.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: He's like amazing at every video game and like, I was like, why didn't I pull it back?
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, but I was so competitive.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: So like there was this combination of like me being
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: so it was like ADHD was like it was like half needing to be so precise and
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: so perfect and have everything just right.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then half just just making these decisions that were
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: that were just completely thoughtless and impulsive.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: It was the boss.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: But Monica, so it sounds like how did everyone accept you?
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: Did you feel like you belonged and everybody respected that you were different, right?
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like it might be a different experience for different kids, right?
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like some kids are totally don't have a supportive environment.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: How was your...
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because you make it sound like almost like, oh, this was actually fun, right?
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: Along the lines of playing.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_02: I did have fun, but I also spent a lot of time in solitude.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like I spent a lot of time reading, a lot of time alone.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: I did mask a lot.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think back to, I was depressed a lot, right?
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like I spent A portion of my young adulthood like hospitalized for depression.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: So it did have, you know, it was rough.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: It was rough.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of, you know, I think it all goes together, especially with women.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_02: Women who are diagnosed late autism, ADHD presents so much differently than boys and men, right?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like we, women are often misdiagnosed as having anxiety and depression, right?
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: Women who are neurodivergent.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, I did go through, I think I had an existential crisis when I was like eight.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not going to lie.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_02: When you were eight?
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: See, this is where we're going.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: This is where I want to go.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: That is the infinity symbol.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I think my, I think I relate to my one son so much because he did too, right?
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and it was the same.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: His kind of coincided when my dad passed away.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: He took that really hard.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: It was really tough.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: But, God, I see so much of my, like, I love, like, I love all of my children.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, I love all of my children.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: And they're all incredible.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm super duper biased, but...
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: I love all of my, like, they're all, can I relate?
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, I relate to all of them.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like you have a favorite because you're just,
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: I love all my, no, no, no.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: No, I, I feel like,
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: I don't, I really actually don't have a favorite.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: If you, if you ask all of them, they'll probably be like, nah, that's, that's her favorite.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: I have three boys, one girl.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: And my girl is like my ride or die, right?
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we've been together, like, I was young when I had her.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's amazing.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: They're all incredible.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like every single one of them,
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: there's something in them that I feel like I relate to.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's like my inner child.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: I can see in them.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: But no, it was tough.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: But I wouldn't trade it for the world.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: I've always said I'd rather have kids who
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: struggle with behavior or have problems
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: than kids who are boring, right?
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's terrible.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: I said that out loud.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: When you said at the beginning that you thought I was interesting,
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: that's seriously the best compliment anyone could give me.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't feel, and that's why, hence my company is called Little Lotus.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: You can't have beauty without struggle.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like you have to have
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: Explain the lotus thing,
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: the how the lotus grows,
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: the significance of lotus for our audience, because this is the name of your thing.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I think this is and why is it associated with Buddha and awakening and all that stuff?
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: So the lotus, it grows, you know, in mud.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_02: And you see this thing.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_02: It looks like it's effortless.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's like even either floating or rising above the water.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it looks
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: like it has a super easy life.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: But they actually start out, their seeds are like deep in the mud.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: And the mud is like, if you've ever gone down to the bottom of a pond and dug it, it stinks.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of gross.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: It stinks?
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a little bit.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: But in a circle of life way, in a beautiful circle of life way.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: It stinks in a beautiful circle of life way.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody freaking clips sitting this, bro.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_02: So it starts in the mud and it starts to grow and it's finding its way up through
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_02: the water and finding its way up through the water and
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_02: then finally it gets up there.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: But it stays tethered to the mud.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't ever just break free from the mud.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it's beautiful.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think they're so extraordinarily beautiful, like lotus flower, water lilies, or whatever.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: There's a true lotus, and then there's a water lily.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's the same damn thing.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_02: And they open up to the sun.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: And some of them go to sleep every night and then open up.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, I think they're extraordinary.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so I thought,
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: when I was kind of coming up with a name for my company,
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: when I decided to make my own practice,
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_02: it was Little Lotus because the kids I work with and the adults I've worked
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: with have been through so much, but they're so beautiful because of it.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's the same way with me.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like I've been through a lot of things in my life in terms of trauma
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: and health things and Injury and this and that and whatever.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I am so glad for it.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it really sucks.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: Pain sucks.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: But I think I'm a better person because of it.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what my goal is really if I had to just sum it up is
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: if I'm helping somebody in therapy,
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: I want them to realize that they will be better because of this.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: Monica, so when did you find,
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: because the Lotus,
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: you're talking about, the Lotus is very much associated with Buddhism.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: You talk about mindfulness.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: You talk about all these things, right?
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: So where did this, at what part of your journey did you start getting into this stuff?
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so I think it was probably like when I told you I was like going through a lot
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_02: of depression when I was young, adulthood.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then, um,
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_02: I became a,
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: I just started,
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: nothing was,
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: Western medicine didn't really help me, which you probably hear that
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: a lot, right?
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: Previous Vibe Sesh guest, she was talking about that the whole time, you know?
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_02: It didn't really help me a lot.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just started kind of,
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_02: I've always been an avid reader,
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: but I told you about solitude,
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: like when I was younger, when I was, it was a lot of reading.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so, um, I started reading a lot about Eastern mysticism.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_02: It just compelled me.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: I just thought it was super compelling.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_02: I started reading a lot about the old work of Terence McKenna.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever heard of Terence McKenna?
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_02: The mushrooms and all of that.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: You did mushrooms, you said?
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I have done mushrooms.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_02: Beautiful experiences.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: Did you see some lotuses?
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine looking at a lotus when you're high on mushrooms.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: You should do that.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_02: Beautiful.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's been so long, but I finally felt like what I felt like I had been searching for.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_02: And you don't have to.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to obviously have
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_02: Use a psychedelic to find that, right?
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: Nirvana.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, there are...
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: You found nirvana?
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying nirvana.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's hyperbole.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's hyperbole.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, but to find that, like, bliss.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: To find bliss, right?
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, bliss.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_02: But I have had some...
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_02: I've had super beautiful experiences with that.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you laughing?
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you laughing?
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: Share.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: No, I was I was thinking like, so I was at this mindfulness conference in Rome.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_02: I've been to a couple of them, right?
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_02: And we're at this dinner, right?
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_02: And we have, they're like leading researchers in mindfulness, like big, big names.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: And they're around this big, massive table at dinner.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's this guy, I don't know who, he was like somebody's mentee.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, he was a PhD student.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then there were monks at the table, right?
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, damn, I want to be at that dinner, bro.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_01: Intellectual monks and mindfulness people.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, you can just be you there, right?
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because everybody's just mindful.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, you know, oh my God, the vibes and something like that.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's insane.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: Vibes, right?
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_02: Vibes.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_02: And this guy, like, he was kind of quiet.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, he wasn't really,
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: and he was,
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: like, from, I want to say Czechoslovakia, but I'm not, like, 100% on that, right?
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: And if, you know, if there was some crazy synchronicity where he's listening, what's up?
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: Shout out to the Czech guy.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe Czech guy.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_02: So he was, like,
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: talking,
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_02: and he's,
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_02: like, everybody's talking about, like, Everybody's talking about meditation, right?
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_02: And mindfulness and like how long they've been meditating and this and that.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: And the whole conference is about these people from all over the world, blah, blah.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like,
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: so once I,
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_02: he's like,
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_02: I went to Mexico and we were with all these people and he's like,
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_02: there were toads, right?
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like you lick the toads or whatever, like whatever.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's the thing where you lick toads and then you trip.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: Have you heard of that?
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_02: No, you lick a toad?
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: You take the spit from the toad.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_02: You don't lick a toad.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: I swear he said lick a toad or whatever.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to take a toad?
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think he's actually like...
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_02: When he's talking about it and he's telling the story, right?
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_02: In my mind, I'm like, he said we lick toads.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think that's what it was.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was like, yeah, something from the toad that made him trip.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, there was a monk in my groove.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_02: So everybody's tripping, right?
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody's having this crazy experience.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: They're all hallucinating.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_02: They're all this and that.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, there's a monk in my group.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_02: They gave it to him.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_02: And he just sat there.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it was, it didn't affect him.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, I've already been here.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_02: I've already done that.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it was just.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: Bro, so I heard a teacher.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: I heard a teacher say that and nobody believed him.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: There's a teacher that's talking about like how He did 10 grams of mushrooms
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: and he didn't feel anything.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if he was telling the truth.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, no way.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, that's bullshit.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, no, he's like, yeah, I've, I've, I've definitely, you know, I've, and, and, and what?
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it was nothing to him.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, he, he just, you know.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah,
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_02: so that's kind of how I started getting into the whole Eastern philosophy side
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: of things.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I was raised Christian, right?
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I just,
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't,
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_02: it was very,
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_02: I guess I kind of get a little bit antsy about, I love, I love habits, right?
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: I love routines,
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: but like all of the ritual,
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_02: like giving so much like So much reverence to rituals kind
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_02: of always made me feel like I wanted to feel the thing more than do the ritual.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I think when I put so much into the reading and the do it,
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: I just I wanted to feel like I'm a...
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a show, not a tell, I guess.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, show and tell.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'd rather bring something and show it.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'd rather see somebody bring something than tell me about something.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, interesting.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's an interesting question.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_02: Show and tell, what would you pick?
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: What would you pick?
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: I would
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: pick tell.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: I would pick tell for sure.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: You said show?
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: You said show.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like if somebody gets a brand new toy, right?
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: And do you want them to sit down?
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: No, you're right.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: You're right.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: I want to see.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: I want to see.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: You're right.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: You're right.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: I want to
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_02: touch it.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_02: I want to touch it and look at it and play with it, right?
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_01: Not just tell.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I prefer.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_01: I want to play with that thing.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so I felt like organized religion was,
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_02: I guess, for me, Western organized religion was more like tell.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I wanted more like show.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I felt like the Eastern part.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: And now I know like
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_02: They have their own form of meditation, right?
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_02: In Christianity, they have their own form.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_02: And now I get it.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_02: Now I feel like I can be present and go to a church and feel it.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_02: I just feel something.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_02: But Eastern philosophy is what made sense.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: It helped me.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_01: Monica, tell us about because one thing that I noticed in your thing,
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: which was I want you to talk more about is you said that there are many forms
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: of meditation, right?
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because so I truly believe that I made a video about this that I believe it was
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: a video about like what what's one skill I would have learned When I was
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_01: in my twenties and I said meditation, just no second place.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me,
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: I've just really been like meditating the traditional way,
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: focusing on the breath and then bodily sensations and then get good at that.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so a lot of people can't do it like Cisco and Cisco recently,
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: you can share the story, Cisco,
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_01: you discovered walking meditation and this is kind of a walking for him,
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: but like, tell us more about it.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like how do you, what is meditation?
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: To you, and what are all the different forms of meditation?
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so like walking meditation, that's in my book for kids, right?
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_02: For preschool kids.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a huge one.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_02: I love walking meditation.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_02: I saw on the, I tuned into the last episode on Monday, like kind of toward the end.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then today I tried to like catch the beginning a little bit earlier today.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_02: But I still haven't seen the middle.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_02: But I want to because I really liked her.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: She's amazing.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: She's amazing.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I do that all the time.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_02: Walking meditation is beautiful.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_02: I do that with kids.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: How do you do your walking meditation?
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: Teach us.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: I want to compare it to what Cisco does because you said some interesting things, Cisco.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: But let me ask you, what techniques or how do you instruct kids to do walking meditation?
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_02: So for kids, you kind of have to make it a bit more exciting, right?
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_02: I try to walk and I kind of just tie it.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_02: Time my,
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_02: not time my breasts,
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_02: but just kind of be mindful of my breasts and like what's around me.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_02: The smells, like all the senses, just kind of taking in and just walking, right?
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, because there's that,
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure you've heard of that teaching,
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_02: like when,
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_02: you know, how do you, like when you're washing dishes, just wash dishes, right?
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like anything can be a meditation if you're just doing that thing.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so with kids, you have to be a little bit more creative.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_02: So like I'll do like, when I ring the bell, take a step.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'll do when the bell stops ringing, take a step.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_02: So that's when they really have to kind of lock in.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, that's confusing.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_02: I always have one.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have one on my desk right now.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, dude, just kidding.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't have the dinger.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't understand.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_01: Give me the instructions again.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: Let me see.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_02: So ding, right?
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then when the bell stops ringing, they take a step and freeze.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then sometimes I'll do like, if I ring it once, take two steps.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_02: If I ring it twice, take one step.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_02: So you're kind of getting them to lock in on the sound
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_02: because otherwise they're just like walking and thinking about what they're going
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_02: to do, you know, at recess or whatever.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_02: So like you want them to be present.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_02: So you're giving them that, um, something to help them be present.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_02: So some sort of sensory cue usually,
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_02: but sometimes it's just like, um, Draw,
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'll have them,
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_02: and this isn't walking,
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_02: but kids who like to do things with their hands,
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'll say like draw 10 circles, 10 squares, 10 triangles.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'll say, it's like, if I clap once, you're going to cross out a circle.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_02: If I clap twice, you're going to cross out a square.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_02: If I clap three times, you're going to cross out a triangle.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then we do that.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_02: And at the end,
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_02: like they tell me how many of each they got and I'm keeping track
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_02: and they're all keeping track.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just like a way of checking in, like how present was I?
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it's never like you need to get them all correct.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like, How present was I?
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_02: How hard was it for me?
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you're equating presence to attention?
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: Would you say it's the same exact?
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think attention plus awareness equals presence.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, attention plus awareness.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, got it.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_02: Wow,
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard because attention is focusing on one thing.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what you're doing with the kids.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: They're focusing on one thing, right?
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then awareness is everything else.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's physical, it's sensory, it's social.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_02: Did you see the video I did with the balloon?
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're bouncing the balloon and then you poured a cup of water.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I've done that for probably two decades.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_02: I've done that as a training exercise.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_02: And what I'll do is the first one is I'll say, okay,
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_02: first you're going to bounce the balloon and then you're going to pour the cup
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_02: of water, right?
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_02: So they realize that they have to like shift.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'll say, okay, this time, and I'll put like, I have a bag of rice.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'll say, put the bag of rice on your head and do the same thing.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so a lot of times I say like,
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_02: wait, I was worried, more worried about bouncing, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_02: And the last time I say,
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_02: now you're going to bounce the balloon with the bag of rice and then pour the cup
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_02: of water, but you have to count backwards out loud by sevens.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then they all look at,
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_02: almost every time they look at me and they're like, They start bargaining, right?
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_02: Can I do fives?
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_02: Or they'll say straight up, like, no, I can't do that.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_02: Or can I do fives?
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_02: Or can I just count backwards?
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what our kids do, too.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_02: Our kids start bargaining.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because what happens is it becomes multitasking, right?
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_02: Multitasking is different than mindfulness.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because with mindfulness, you have attention plus awareness.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_02: Awareness is something you have automaticity for, right?
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: You can walk and chew gum.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_02: If you're really good at walking and chewing gum,
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_02: like if you don't have to corticalize them,
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_02: if you don't have to think about them, if they're automatic.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_02: So when you add too many components,
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_02: like when you add math to something that's like a complex motor planning task,
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_02: Then your brain can't multi, your brain can only focus on one thing at a time.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so even in that, because for me, I think of like, I'm just in a quiet room, right?
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_01: Just counting my brain, just feeling this sense.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: It seems so different.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's so active, right?
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: Versus what I consider meditation, right?
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_01: So how are you defining meditation then?
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm in the camp of mindfulness and I define meditation as mindfulness meditation.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really just being present.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_02: So when I have kids and they're doing those things where they're crossing up
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_02: the shapes and all that, they're focusing on that, right?
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_02: And they might have to filter out distractions, right?
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like somebody else is moving around or the bell's ringing or there's
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_02: an announcement coming on, it's a school setting.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_02: They're still having to filter.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_02: They are having to maintain awareness and they're having to balance awareness
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_02: and attention, right?
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so one of the things is people would be so self-conscious
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_02: and afterward we'd process and I'd be like, okay, what were you focused on?
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_02: How did your focus shift?
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the things they had to be aware of was their...
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm kind of feeling like I'm worried about what other people are thinking about me
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_02: if I'm getting the math wrong, right?
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_02: So there's always that.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_02: When we think of awareness,
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_02: it's not just awareness of our sensory world,
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_02: but it's awareness of our thoughts and whether we're being judged or
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_02: that social context too.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a social awareness that comes along with everything we do.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, because for me,
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_01: when I think about what meditation does for me at the core,
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's, you know, Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_01: So his whole, there's stimuli and response.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_01: And in between there, there's a gap between stimuli and response.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: And in that gap lies your freedom.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you're a place to grow, right?
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's the place where you grow.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, meditation is finding that place all the time.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like widening that gap as much as possible as you, you know, so that's what you're trying to do.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_02: Can I tell you something crazy?
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because no, I fully believe that.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I sit when I,
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_02: when I met, like, I mean, I'll do, I just, just started drawing again, mandalas.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_02: Cause that was like a big thing for me.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_02: So there was a rough period in my,
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_02: Late 20s, early 30s where I like drew a lot of mandalas.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know what a mandala is Cisco?
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to look it up.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_02: Really mine is, I sit, right?
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_02: I sit and breathe.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_02: But kids, you can't like, you can't go from, you can't force understanding.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_02: And what I realized,
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_02: even with my trainings I do with people, Yeah,
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_02: you can sit and be quiet and breathe, but you're thinking about your grocery list.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's not meditation.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I'm saying?
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think if I can bring,
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_02: if I can put someone in their body, because we're all in our heads so often, right?
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_02: If I can bring somebody into their body,
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_02: And get them out of that loop, that spiral, I feel like that's meditation.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like, because the stillness.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_02: I always say,
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_02: one of my slogans,
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_02: and it's one of my,
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_02: if you go to my website, it's one of the things at the time, all these things.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, one is you get good at what you practice.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_02: And one is what I call stillness prevents illness.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I always say.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_02: Because we don't know how to be still anymore.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I give kids these moments.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_02: The kids I work with are typically all over the place, mentally or physically, usually both.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_02: But if I can get them that experience of being still and just kind of breathing
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_02: and noticing their breath in any capacity,
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_02: then I feel like that's beneficial for them.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I've seen that.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_02: Kids who start out and they're like, what are we doing?
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then by the end of it, they're asking for it.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, can we do breathing?
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_01: At the beginning of the session, they're asking for it.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I use a lot of sensory tools.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like I use this thing I have right now that I'm playing with.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a bracelet and you slide the beads and you breathe and you time your...
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_02: So like a lot of times there's a sensory tool, which again, that's like a mala, right?
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like for meditation.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I have to be creative with how I introduce the meditation.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_02: But obviously the goal is that they will evolve.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like they will grow the longer...
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, breathing.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's portable.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: You don't need any special tool.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like your breath is portable.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_02: You can do that anywhere.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because so that's why you're calling it mindfulness.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_01: But then the next stage would be this kind of more kind of broad kind of thing.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_01: Or no.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_02: The Viktor Frankl thing, which.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_02: Have you read?
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_02: Have you read the whole book?
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, of course, yeah.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like he's an honorary occupational therapist because that's the heart
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_02: of our whole profession is his book, like meaning and doing, right?
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like he had the whole thing about what,
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_02: people who had something meaningful and important waiting for them to do are
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_02: the people who survived, right?
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_02: The concentration camps.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_02: But I was gonna,
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_02: that's like so widely attributed to him that in between stimulus and response,
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_02: there's a pause or there's a space and blah, blah.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that's, he didn't, he didn't say it.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_01: No way.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_01: It is a myth.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_02: That is an urban legend because I combed that book backwards and he's, it's widely attributed.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I asked my mentor who was also wrote the forward to my book.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, he's like, you need the source for this quote.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, because I put it in my book.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm looking, he's like, Monica, he didn't say that.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_02: He did not say everyone attributes that quote to him.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_02: I, when I tell you,
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_01: I- Bro, I've been quoting this.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is my favorite quote.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_01: What is going on?
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_02: Sam, I don't know who said it.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_02: He didn't say it though.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_01: Bro, vibes says, vibes says right here.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_00: Bro, we've repeated that so many times.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's crazy, right?
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_01: Bro, you blew our mind.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_01: My face is hot right now.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sweating, literally.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_02: Don't check my shit, man.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_02: No, I said that in training.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_02: I said that in like, yeah, no.
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, yeah, I know how you're feeling right now because I felt it.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to make a video about this.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_02: Backspace, backspace, backspace, delete, delete, delete.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_02: Took that right out of my book.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_00: Go ahead, Cisco.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because what she was talking about with the meditation and because it reminded me
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_00: of your video with the tabs.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_00: You had kids running the tabs.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_00: So do you like always do that with them and have them try to clear the tabs
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_00: or they do the meditation to clear the tabs?
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe that was just a one-off exercise, but.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_00: You had them write things down that like they're thinking about and it was a tab, a tab, a tab.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_02: So both.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_02: So if it resonates right, then that's your strategy.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's your practice.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_02: But I think the exercise is super cool because we don't realize how many tabs kids have open.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because again, that's invisible, right?
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like all those tabs are super invisible.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I have kids, the majority, so many kids with, if we talk about behavior, right?
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_02: I read there's research and there's a bunch of different studies,
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_02: but I think there's a systematic review,
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_02: but about 60% of kids who are in juvenile detention have
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_02: a moderate
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_02: to severe language impairment, right?
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_02: So struggle to express themselves or understand language in their own language.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_02: Some people hear language and they're like, oh, they don't speak English.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, like their own language, right?
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_02: Think about if you can't tell your story, right?
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, you look guilty as heck, right?
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_02: If you're doing something and getting in trouble and you're trying
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_02: to say what you did and you're not making sense, you look guilty, right?
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_02: But when you ask them what they did last weekend,
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_02: they don't make sense either because they have a language impairment.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a lot of people who struggle People with behavior problems
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_02: who have difficulty with language,
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_02: with understanding and processing language, with trauma.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_02: There's something like 80% of people who are,
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_02: over 80% of people who are incarcerated have trauma, significant trauma or PTSD.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_02: All of these kind of like invisible disabilities, all of these tabs open we don't see.
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes they don't even know the tabs are open, but they're taking up space.
• 1:10:58
  SPEAKER_02: They're lagging.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_02: They're making their program run slow.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_02: They're taking up room on the computer screen because there's not...
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Can I do a quick working memory exercise with you?
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let's do it.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because this is really what it's about.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_02: The more tabs you have open,
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_02: and this is just kind of something I've put together over the years.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think the more tabs you have open,
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_02: the less capacity you have for working memory,
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_02: which I think is what makes people really struggle.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_02: People who have difficulties with behavior or, you know, ADHD or whatever.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_02: The more tabs you have open, the less space you have on your computer screen for working memory.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_02: So let me, I'm going to give you, I'm going to test.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_02: Can I test you?
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's go.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Cisco first.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Cisco first.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm nervous.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm nervous.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm going to tell you,
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just going to tell you a set of things and you're going to repeat them back
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_02: to me.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_02: I just happen to have this thing like on my desk.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, shit.
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm nervous.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_01: You can wake up, bro.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_02: You guys are all super smart.
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm going to tell you,
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_02: it's going to be color, letter, number, and you're going to repeat that.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_02: Red X five, a G blue.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to say it again.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_02: Red X five.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Red X5, Red G, Blue?
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Or something like that.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Close, close, close.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, my turn, my turn.
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_01: I got this.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_01: I got this.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, go ahead.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_01: You got it?
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, you ready for one?
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_02: All right, let's see.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_02: R, Purple, Three, E, Yellow, M.
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_01: R, Purple, Three, E, Yellow, M.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_02: Now say it backwards.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_02: Say it backwards.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_02: Brett couldn't
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_01: do it.
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_01: But you didn't prepare me for that.
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_01: If you prepare me, I think I can do it.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, Brett, I'm going to prepare you and you're going to say it backwards?
• 1:13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_02: 7B, pink, H, and green.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_01: 7B, pink, H, green.
• 1:13:14
  SPEAKER_01: I can't even do it.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Sam, that's hard.
• 1:13:19
  SPEAKER_02: So that's working memory, right?
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_02: So obviously that's difficult, right?
• 1:13:23
  SPEAKER_02: But think about the kids I work with who are struggling with behavior,
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_02: have a hard time with three and four pieces of information.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_02: I gave you six.
• 1:13:32
  SPEAKER_02: They can't do four.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_02: And now they're in a classroom, right?
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_02: So when we think about working memory and inhibitory control,
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_02: which again, I forgot your original question, but I'm just...
• 1:13:43
  SPEAKER_01: You just keep going.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_02: Working memory and inhibitory control are so closely linked
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_02: that researchers have trouble measuring them discreetly until kids are like 12,
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_02: So they, because you think about it, to control yourself, you have to remember the rules, right?
• 1:14:02
  SPEAKER_02: You have to remember what the rules are.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_01: You have a working memory, you don't remember the rules.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_02: The rules are a tab.
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes that tab is minimized because there's a tab open for I need to sit
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_02: in my chair without falling out of it.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_02: There's a tab open for all of this noise is terrible.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_02: I need to dampen it.
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_02: There's a tab open for my dad hits my mom at night.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_02: There's a tab open for all of these things.
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_02: The rules tab is either minimized because it's not as important or it's
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_02: behind some other tabs that are open.
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_02: So working memory is like a huge piece of that.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_02: You brought up the tabs thing.
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_02: So like,
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think with kids,
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_02: a lot of times,
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_02: kind of helping them understand what, can I give you a story to illustrate it?
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_02: I was working with this girl and I have this whole thing.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_02: I do a lot of work with like sensory integration,
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_02: sensory processing, like how we process sensory information.
• 1:15:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I have this whole like sensory inventory I give kids.
• 1:15:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I was working with this girl.
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_02: She was in seventh grade and she was constantly in trouble.
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like this girl was constantly getting into trouble and she was talking
• 1:15:17
  SPEAKER_02: and she talked back and she said things that weren't appropriate.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes they were super funny, but like she would get kicked out of class a lot and not by me.
• 1:15:25
  SPEAKER_02: She'd come to me after she got kicked out.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_02: She was just she was constantly like doing stuff and like walking around the room
• 1:15:32
  SPEAKER_02: and whatever and making noises and like tapping and like,
• 1:15:36
  SPEAKER_02: you know, starting conversations and just like whatever.
• 1:15:39
  SPEAKER_02: So one day I was doing this thing with her and it was like it's in the inventory.
• 1:15:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's like saying all these like it's based by like sensory kind of category.
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_02: So there's like visual stuff and there's smells and there's You know,
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_02: the stigma, like how we process movement and their sound.
• 1:15:56
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like, you rate it how much you like it.
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_02: So you like from one to five,
• 1:16:01
  SPEAKER_02: I do a lot of like rating scales, like one to five, how much do you like this thing?
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was like, quiet.
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_02: It was just that was the item quiet.
• 1:16:11
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like, one is like, terrible, I hate it.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_02: And like five is like, I love it.
• 1:16:18
  SPEAKER_02: And she put like, she drew in a zero and circled zero.
• 1:16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, not an option girl.
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_02: No, like no, we're off the scale here.
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so she's like, um, so I was like, you hate quiet.
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, yeah, because I've never really even experienced quiet.
• 1:16:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so she said, every time it's quiet, my ears ring and it's, it's the worst sound ever.
• 1:16:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was like, wait,
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_02: so every time everything's quiet, you feel like you can hear your ears ringing?
• 1:16:56
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, yeah.
• 1:16:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, what helps?
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, when I talk.
• 1:17:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, what else helps?
• 1:17:02
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, literally any sound.
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, when you're tapping on the desk, does that take away the ringing?
• 1:17:09
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, yeah.
• 1:17:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, when you're going to talk to people, does that take away the ringing?
• 1:17:13
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, yeah.
• 1:17:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like,
• 1:17:15
  SPEAKER_02: when you're trying to listen to your music when you're not supposed to be,
• 1:17:18
  SPEAKER_02: is that taking away the quiet?
• 1:17:19
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, yeah.
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_02: So this girl has, I find out she has chronic tinnitus, right?
• 1:17:25
  SPEAKER_02: She's, it's constantly her ears are
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_01: ringing.
• 1:17:29
  SPEAKER_02: And, um, and I start, so I'm like, oh my God, I'm
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_00: so sorry for you.
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I felt terrible.
• 1:17:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so, um, I actually ended up calling her mom.
• 1:17:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, did you know that her ears ring constantly?
• 1:17:42
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, I had no idea.
• 1:17:42
  SPEAKER_02: And she has anxiety too, right?
• 1:17:44
  SPEAKER_02: She has a history of anxiety.
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I start researching.
• 1:17:47
  SPEAKER_02: There's a huge connection between chronic tinnitus and anxiety, right?
• 1:17:52
  SPEAKER_02: And the way they treat tinnitus is through sound therapy a lot of times, right?
• 1:17:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so she was feeding herself what she needed to cope with this disease.
• 1:18:05
  SPEAKER_02: Terrible sensation that she was feeling.
• 1:18:07
  SPEAKER_02: But I never would have known.
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_02: I never would have known had we not done this little questionnaire.
• 1:18:14
  SPEAKER_02: So we ended up putting accommodations in a place.
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_02: I got her accommodation for headphones and music.
• 1:18:19
  SPEAKER_02: Actually chewing gum because it was a little bit of sound being generated.
• 1:18:24
  SPEAKER_02: And just giving her opportunities to not have quiet.
• 1:18:27
  SPEAKER_02: And she did end up getting a consult with an EMT.
• 1:18:30
  SPEAKER_02: That was at the end of the school year.
• 1:18:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't even know what happened.
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_02: It was just one of those eye-opening things where she had a tab open
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_02: for this terrible sound she was hearing that no one else could hear.
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_02: It was invisible, inaudible.
• 1:18:48
  SPEAKER_02: But it was awful for her.
• 1:18:50
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you've ever experienced your ears ringing.
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's terrible.
• 1:18:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I know about tinnitus.
• 1:18:55
  SPEAKER_01: So every time my ears ring, I'm like, oh, please don't let this be permanent.
• 1:18:59
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because I'm like, oh, my God, this would be terrible.
• 1:19:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, yeah.
• 1:19:03
  SPEAKER_02: Now imagine you're 13, right?
• 1:19:05
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:19:07
  SPEAKER_02: And you struggle with learning.
• 1:19:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's crazy.
• 1:19:09
  SPEAKER_02: You struggle with attention and focus and your ears are ringing constantly, right?
• 1:19:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so you self-medicating and it was getting you into trouble.
• 1:19:17
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, but Monica,
• 1:19:19
  SPEAKER_01: so if there's no bad behavior then,
• 1:19:23
  SPEAKER_01: then like how do you bring in accountability, right?
• 1:19:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll tell you a story.
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously I made one video and it was one of my most viral videos, right?
• 1:19:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it was basically a silly thing.
• 1:19:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was basically three things that signify an annoying person,
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_01: three traits of an annoying person, okay?
• 1:19:47
  SPEAKER_01: One was they always make the conversation about you.
• 1:19:50
  SPEAKER_01: They cut you off, right?
• 1:19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's just about them.
• 1:19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Number two, they complain about everything and they drain your energy, right?
• 1:19:58
  SPEAKER_01: And number three,
• 1:20:00
  SPEAKER_01: they always say,
• 1:20:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just being honest,
• 1:20:03
  SPEAKER_01: you know, but they're inconsiderate, but they're just, I'm just honest.
• 1:20:06
  SPEAKER_01: And they say whatever comes to mind, right?
• 1:20:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I did this three traits.
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_01: I got like two, 3 million views, but on the comments, people were like, man, this is not cool.
• 1:20:15
  SPEAKER_01: You don't understand ADHD people.
• 1:20:18
  SPEAKER_01: You don't understand this and that and this and that.
• 1:20:20
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of neurodivergent people, right?
• 1:20:23
  SPEAKER_01: So what do you feel about that?
• 1:20:26
  SPEAKER_01: I've spoken to one of my best friends is neurodivergent, right?
• 1:20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And he's more like, yeah,
• 1:20:32
  SPEAKER_01: we have a harder time dealing with it, but we still have to follow social norms.
• 1:20:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you got to do what you can.
• 1:20:39
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know.
• 1:20:39
  SPEAKER_01: What are your thoughts?
• 1:20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:20:41
  SPEAKER_01: So how do...
• 1:20:42
  SPEAKER_01: That experience made me more empathetic, right?
• 1:20:45
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, but then how do I preserve my peace too, right?
• 1:20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because if I'm not peaceful and I absorb that energy,
• 1:20:55
  SPEAKER_01: where is the balance between that compassion and all that?
• 1:20:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know.
• 1:21:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm struggling with that, but maybe you have some color.
• 1:21:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's a really good question.
• 1:21:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's a whole nother vibe sesh.
• 1:21:05
  SPEAKER_02: Probably it could be a whole nother
• 1:21:07
  SPEAKER_01: vibe sesh.
• 1:21:14
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I say it often that when you find a reason, like I always say find the why, right?
• 1:21:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because the why is what drives behavior, right?
• 1:21:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like you need to find the why, but the reason isn't the excuse, right?
• 1:21:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's a path forward.
• 1:21:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's a piece of the puzzle.
• 1:21:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's like,
• 1:21:37
  SPEAKER_02: And understanding it's it's enhanced awareness but awareness
• 1:21:41
  SPEAKER_02: without action like I think that's what you talked about
• 1:21:44
  SPEAKER_02: in your last right like we are judged for our habits not for our intentions
• 1:21:48
  SPEAKER_02: and our goals so I think finding the why is just the first step so often with kids
• 1:21:57
  SPEAKER_02: when people first of all I have this thing that I do it's called like 5p
• 1:22:03
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like a process for helping with kids.
• 1:22:05
  SPEAKER_02: And the first one is just like you're present,
• 1:22:06
  SPEAKER_02: you get the kid regulated, you get them to calm down, right?
• 1:22:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that's usually where behavior intervention stops.
• 1:22:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like a child does something and once they stop losing their mind
• 1:22:15
  SPEAKER_02: and calm down enough,
• 1:22:16
  SPEAKER_02: they get like a punishment or they get some kind of consequence or whatever happens.
• 1:22:22
  SPEAKER_02: And like, oh, we'll do a point sheet and you can earn a reward to not do that again next time.
• 1:22:25
  SPEAKER_02: But they don't.
• 1:22:26
  SPEAKER_02: Go any further, right?
• 1:22:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like usually the intervention stops because once the child stops being uncomfortable
• 1:22:32
  SPEAKER_02: for the adult,
• 1:22:33
  SPEAKER_02: we can stop our intervention because like we're okay now because you shut up, right?
• 1:22:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like you stop screaming.
• 1:22:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:22:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like you stop screaming.
• 1:22:40
  SPEAKER_02: You stopped making my life hard.
• 1:22:42
  SPEAKER_02: You stopped, you know, triggering me because so often kids behaviors are triggering adults.
• 1:22:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like the adult feels out of control.
• 1:22:51
  SPEAKER_02: The adult feels disrespected.
• 1:22:53
  SPEAKER_02: The adult feels right.
• 1:22:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so Once that behavior stops, the adult's like, whew, that's over.
• 1:23:01
  SPEAKER_02: Let's move on with our life, right?
• 1:23:03
  SPEAKER_02: But really that's when you need to start with a child is once they've calmed down, right?
• 1:23:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's where you're, that's where you got to start.
• 1:23:11
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where you start processing and you figure out like, what were you feeling?
• 1:23:15
  SPEAKER_02: What was happening?
• 1:23:16
  SPEAKER_02: What, you know,
• 1:23:16
  SPEAKER_02: I have this thing called,
• 1:23:17
  SPEAKER_02: if you look up,
• 1:23:19
  SPEAKER_02: you don't have to look at it now,
• 1:23:20
  SPEAKER_02: but like it's called, if you go to the feelingsfinder.com,
• 1:23:23
  SPEAKER_02: it's like a free app.
• 1:23:25
  SPEAKER_02: It helps kids understand like what they're feeling,
• 1:23:29
  SPEAKER_02: but then like where they're feeling it in their bodies.
• 1:23:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it's essentially like a discentering practice for kids, like a super basic one.
• 1:23:35
  SPEAKER_02: But we do a lot of processing, like how did you feel when you woke up this morning?
• 1:23:40
  SPEAKER_02: How did you feel?
• 1:23:41
  SPEAKER_02: And we get to where they were and we process.
• 1:23:43
  SPEAKER_02: So that's like the second P. And then the third one is problem solving.
• 1:23:46
  SPEAKER_02: You work through and figure out, okay, like, This is what happened.
• 1:23:51
  SPEAKER_02: This is what I needed.
• 1:23:53
  SPEAKER_02: So this is why it occurred.
• 1:23:54
  SPEAKER_02: But, like, it didn't work.
• 1:23:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I kicked my friend in the head.
• 1:23:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I screamed at somebody.
• 1:24:02
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever.
• 1:24:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I threw a chair.
• 1:24:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, all things that have happened.
• 1:24:08
  SPEAKER_00: All things that have happened.
• 1:24:14
  SPEAKER_02: All things that have happened.
• 1:24:15
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of chair throwing.
• 1:24:17
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, I...
• 1:24:20
  SPEAKER_02: Hit somebody in the eye with a pencil.
• 1:24:22
  SPEAKER_02: That didn't work for you.
• 1:24:24
  SPEAKER_02: You had a problem.
• 1:24:26
  SPEAKER_02: You had a need.
• 1:24:28
  SPEAKER_02: You did this thing.
• 1:24:29
  SPEAKER_02: Didn't work, right?
• 1:24:31
  SPEAKER_02: We need to figure out something for next time.
• 1:24:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then that's where you kind of go into two different directions.
• 1:24:37
  SPEAKER_02: One is you put a support in place.
• 1:24:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a top-down support.
• 1:24:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, this is a strategy I'm going to use next time.
• 1:24:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then the other thing is we call bottom up.
• 1:24:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh, wait, I need to like build up these skills.
• 1:24:47
  SPEAKER_02: I need to like work on these things so that I can do that thing next time
• 1:24:51
  SPEAKER_02: and not hurt someone, right?
• 1:24:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like not throw a chair.
• 1:24:55
  SPEAKER_02: So like it's both.
• 1:24:56
  SPEAKER_02: So like with therapy,
• 1:24:57
  SPEAKER_02: it's you have top down,
• 1:24:58
  SPEAKER_02: which is like,
• 1:24:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to use this strategy,
• 1:25:01
  SPEAKER_02: cognitive strategy kind of thing, or use the support or accommodation or bottom up.
• 1:25:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, I'm going to put in the work every day and build these skills, right?
• 1:25:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to grow my capacity.
• 1:25:11
  SPEAKER_02: So And then the next piece, like you do some kind of pro-social action, right?
• 1:25:17
  SPEAKER_02: You do something to kind of give good faith.
• 1:25:21
  SPEAKER_02: If you hurt somebody, you're going to maybe apologize.
• 1:25:24
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you're going to go get them an ice pack.
• 1:25:26
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you're going to help them,
• 1:25:27
  SPEAKER_02: you know, pick up their crayons that you threw across or whatever it is, right?
• 1:25:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like we're going to do when they're calm,
• 1:25:32
  SPEAKER_02: when they're chill, when they've reflected, we're going to do something pro-social.
• 1:25:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then the last one is like, praise them.
• 1:25:38
  SPEAKER_02: You give them specific feedback.
• 1:25:40
  SPEAKER_02: You thank that a lot of times kids who, um, Our neurodivergent don't like to be praised, right?
• 1:25:48
  SPEAKER_02: They don't like praise.
• 1:25:49
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, they don't believe it about themselves, I think.
• 1:25:53
  SPEAKER_02: And they're just like, you know, like, they don't believe it.
• 1:25:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I always thank kids as a form of praise.
• 1:25:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, thank you so much for blah, blah, right?
• 1:26:02
  SPEAKER_02: But so those are kind of like I call like the five.
• 1:26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's interesting because some people don't take compliments well.
• 1:26:07
  SPEAKER_01: No, they sure don't.
• 1:26:08
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you will.
• 1:26:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's a neurodivergent person if they don't take compliments well.
• 1:26:14
  SPEAKER_02: I've noticed that with kids who have trauma history too.
• 1:26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 1:26:20
  SPEAKER_02: I actually have noticed it more with kids who really struggle with trauma and behavior.
• 1:26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 1:26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know so many adults that I've met through this journey.
• 1:26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because I compliment people.
• 1:26:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 1:26:33
  SPEAKER_01: I see the best in people.
• 1:26:34
  SPEAKER_01: And when I compliment somebody, I'm not lying.
• 1:26:37
  SPEAKER_01: I feel a certain vibe.
• 1:26:39
  SPEAKER_01: And like, yo, bro, you're cool.
• 1:26:40
  SPEAKER_01: I like your vibe.
• 1:26:41
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, huh?
• 1:26:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they get very...
• 1:26:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's weird about it.
• 1:26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 1:26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you don't believe it.
• 1:26:50
  SPEAKER_00: The conflict with their self-image.
• 1:26:52
  SPEAKER_02: One million percent.
• 1:26:54
  SPEAKER_02: You also said something last thing,
• 1:26:56
  SPEAKER_02: like when I was tuning in on Monday night, and it was like genius.
• 1:26:59
  SPEAKER_02: You said, wait, I'm going to try to get it right.
• 1:27:02
  SPEAKER_02: You correct me, okay?
• 1:27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll try.
• 1:27:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I'm going to remember.
• 1:27:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think you said that language was technology of the ego.
• 1:27:10
  SPEAKER_02: Did you say that?
• 1:27:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 1:27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Bro, did you post this
• 1:27:19
  SPEAKER_00: on your thing?
• 1:27:19
  SPEAKER_02: Is that an original Cisco quote?
• 1:27:22
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't heard it.
• 1:27:24
  SPEAKER_00: I thought of it.
• 1:27:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's original.
• 1:27:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's genius.
• 1:27:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's genius.
• 1:27:31
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for that, by the way.
• 1:27:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'll accept
• 1:27:33
  SPEAKER_00: that phrase.
• 1:27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:27:40
  SPEAKER_02: That was another tangent.
• 1:27:41
  SPEAKER_02: But no, genius.
• 1:27:42
  SPEAKER_02: That was absolutely brilliant.
• 1:27:44
  SPEAKER_02: My best friend is like a speech language pathologist.
• 1:27:46
  SPEAKER_02: I have two best friends.
• 1:27:47
  SPEAKER_02: One is a speech language pathologist and she would appreciate that as well.
• 1:27:51
  SPEAKER_02: But it is true.
• 1:27:52
  SPEAKER_02: It is true.
• 1:27:54
  SPEAKER_01: But Monica,
• 1:27:55
  SPEAKER_01: so what's your answer about the three,
• 1:27:57
  SPEAKER_01: the video that, yeah, like, so what do I do in that kind of situation?
• 1:28:01
  SPEAKER_01: Can I keep making those videos or is that insensitive?
• 1:28:04
  SPEAKER_02: No, I think if you're annoying, you're annoying, right?
• 1:28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, All right, good.
• 1:28:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so let me give you a sample.
• 1:28:13
  SPEAKER_02: Kids who struggle with working memory,
• 1:28:15
  SPEAKER_02: ADHD is largely,
• 1:28:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think most people who have that diagnosis struggle with working memory,
• 1:28:24
  SPEAKER_02: whether it's,
• 1:28:25
  SPEAKER_02: you know, people that say like, oh, is their computer screen just smaller, right?
• 1:28:29
  SPEAKER_02: So they have less capacity for working memory.
• 1:28:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think they just have more tabs open.
• 1:28:33
  SPEAKER_02: So by default, they have less space, right?
• 1:28:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's just kind of what I think.
• 1:28:38
  SPEAKER_02: But by and large, the research shows that working memory deficits are characteristic of ADHD.
• 1:28:46
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of times, okay, so think about this.
• 1:28:49
  SPEAKER_02: Think about somebody who just interrupts all the time.
• 1:28:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's so often it's because they are worried they're going to forget what they have
• 1:28:57
  SPEAKER_02: to say, right?
• 1:28:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so they interrupt.
• 1:29:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's you, Cisco?
• 1:29:01
  SPEAKER_00: I do that.
• 1:29:09
  SPEAKER_02: No, you're good.
• 1:29:10
  SPEAKER_02: Please interrupt.
• 1:29:11
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I've been interrupting this whole time.
• 1:29:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's me.
• 1:29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, this is amazing.
• 1:29:15
  SPEAKER_01: We can just interrupt each other?
• 1:29:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 1:29:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's freeing, actually.
• 1:29:22
  SPEAKER_01: If you're an asshole, you're an asshole.
• 1:29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just accept.
• 1:29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Is that the attitude?
• 1:29:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
• 1:29:28
  SPEAKER_01: No, totally.
• 1:29:30
  SPEAKER_02: So what I'll do with kids because think about I've got a group of therapy students
• 1:29:34
  SPEAKER_02: and like we're working on so I'm not trying to teach them
• 1:29:36
  SPEAKER_02: or like have them like sometimes I always have something planned but like
• 1:29:40
  SPEAKER_02: then they'll bring their work and I try to do things like contextualized learning is
• 1:29:43
  SPEAKER_02: the best learning right so like bring your stupid boring shit you don't want to do
• 1:29:47
  SPEAKER_02: and now we'll work on strategies to get you through it
• 1:29:50
  SPEAKER_02: to help you like you know learn how to get through this.
• 1:29:55
  SPEAKER_02: You've, these kids are just like going off about all, and like no one's on topic, right?
• 1:30:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like everybody's like talking about their own thing and people are interrupting this and that.
• 1:30:04
  SPEAKER_02: So what I do is I have them draw a plate.
• 1:30:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like I have a, you know, a table and, and it's, you can wipe it off.
• 1:30:11
  SPEAKER_02: So we draw a table a lot.
• 1:30:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll have them draw a play button and a pause button.
• 1:30:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'll be like, and I'll give them all like a little rock or whatever.
• 1:30:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll be like, okay, so right now we're like, we're going to pause our talking.
• 1:30:25
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I have a quiet light.
• 1:30:26
  SPEAKER_02: We'll turn on the quiet light.
• 1:30:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's a little tap light and we'll do it.
• 1:30:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the quiet lights on.
• 1:30:29
  SPEAKER_02: So like I'm saying something or whoever has the quiet light is talking, right?
• 1:30:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so we'll do that.
• 1:30:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then if they feel like they're about to derail the whole shit,
• 1:30:40
  SPEAKER_02: like they derail everything, I'll be like, wait, pause, pause.
• 1:30:44
  SPEAKER_02: And we'll write down.
• 1:30:45
  SPEAKER_02: What were you going to say?
• 1:30:46
  SPEAKER_02: What were you going to say?
• 1:30:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll write it down to them on the table.
• 1:30:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then like, we're going to put this on pause right now.
• 1:30:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then, well, I'll tell you when you can play it, right?
• 1:30:57
  SPEAKER_02: Because they know from YouTube, they know what play and pause buttons look like.
• 1:31:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so a lot of times it's just a little visual for them.
• 1:31:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's acknowledging that you have something important to say and you can't hold it.
• 1:31:12
  SPEAKER_02: You're going to forget it.
• 1:31:14
  SPEAKER_02: You're definitely going to forget it because I know that from experience.
• 1:31:18
  SPEAKER_02: I do that too.
• 1:31:19
  SPEAKER_02: But...
• 1:31:22
  SPEAKER_02: So that's just like an example of a strategy, right?
• 1:31:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so no, you can't hit somebody because you're angry.
• 1:31:29
  SPEAKER_02: Every emotion has a function.
• 1:31:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I have a chart in my room that says all the functions of every emotion,
• 1:31:36
  SPEAKER_02: even the painful
• 1:31:37
  SPEAKER_01: ones.
• 1:31:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:31:38
  SPEAKER_01: But Monica,
• 1:31:39
  SPEAKER_01: what about like if I,
• 1:31:41
  SPEAKER_01: so I saw a video today that went viral and it was a woman saying like,
• 1:31:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think she was talking in the context of a relationship, right?
• 1:31:49
  SPEAKER_01: But she was just saying, like,
• 1:31:51
  SPEAKER_01: if you get triggered,
• 1:31:52
  SPEAKER_01: no matter what the other person is doing, if you get triggered, it's not about them.
• 1:31:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's about you.
• 1:31:58
  SPEAKER_01: Is that true?
• 1:31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you think that's true?
• 1:32:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I do.
• 1:32:02
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, really?
• 1:32:03
  SPEAKER_01: So anytime, it's always about you, not the other person.
• 1:32:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because it's your perception of what's happening, right?
• 1:32:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it's your perception of what's happening.
• 1:32:14
  SPEAKER_01: No, but what if they are legitimate assholes?
• 1:32:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 1:32:18
  SPEAKER_02: But that means that you don't like assholes.
• 1:32:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:32:22
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 1:32:22
  SPEAKER_02: That means that assholes really, other assholes would probably be fine with it.
• 1:32:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, but what if nobody's fine with an asshole?
• 1:32:29
  SPEAKER_01: Even an asshole's not fine with an asshole, no?
• 1:32:31
  SPEAKER_02: But if it's the same kind of asshole, right?
• 1:32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:32:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 1:32:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I'm saying?
• 1:32:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, people...
• 1:32:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, one man's asshole is not one man's asshole, basically.
• 1:32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 1:32:45
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like, no, I feel like there is something.
• 1:32:48
  SPEAKER_02: I have this whole checklist I developed for parents and caregivers for parents.
• 1:32:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's like when somebody does something that bothers you, what is it triggering in you, right?
• 1:32:59
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe it's just like a conflict in your values, right?
• 1:33:03
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 1:33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Conflict in the values.
• 1:33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:33:08
  SPEAKER_01: One of my videos that went really viral as well is when I was saying
• 1:33:12
  SPEAKER_01: that I'm single right now, right?
• 1:33:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a 51-year-old man and I'm single.
• 1:33:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I was explaining in the video that I find it funny that there's a lot
• 1:33:21
  SPEAKER_01: of videos now of single people, older people saying, hey, I'm single.
• 1:33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God, my life is good.
• 1:33:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have kids.
• 1:33:27
  SPEAKER_01: I can do whatever I want.
• 1:33:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm saving money.
• 1:33:30
  SPEAKER_01: And in the comments section,
• 1:33:32
  SPEAKER_01: Some people are writing paragraphs like you're selfish
• 1:33:37
  SPEAKER_01: or you don't know what you're missing out on.
• 1:33:39
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, how dare you?
• 1:33:42
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, whatever, like a billion different reasons.
• 1:33:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I made a video about it.
• 1:33:46
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, hey, man, you need to think about what's going on with you.
• 1:33:51
  SPEAKER_01: This is not about me.
• 1:33:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's about, you know, like it's a very projection.
• 1:33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:33:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:33:57
  SPEAKER_02: No, definitely.
• 1:33:58
  SPEAKER_02: I do think that is true.
• 1:34:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think.
• 1:34:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's all about perception.
• 1:34:03
  SPEAKER_02: I
• 1:34:07
  SPEAKER_02: started following you, I can't remember which video it was, but it was a while ago.
• 1:34:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then you recently did one about a zebra,
• 1:34:18
  SPEAKER_02: no, no, no, to the grass, the zebras,
• 1:34:21
  SPEAKER_01: the villain or whatever.
• 1:34:27
  SPEAKER_02: I do that with kids all the time.
• 1:34:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's all about perception.
• 1:34:30
  SPEAKER_02: I do this activity where I put a P or a D, just depending on where you're set.
• 1:34:38
  SPEAKER_02: I have a kid on each side of the table,
• 1:34:40
  SPEAKER_02: and I'll put the letter,
• 1:34:42
  SPEAKER_02: and then this kid's like,
• 1:34:43
  SPEAKER_02: it's a P,
• 1:34:43
  SPEAKER_02: and this kid's like,
• 1:34:44
  SPEAKER_02: no, it's a D, and then I make them switch, and they're both right.
• 1:34:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's just a matter of where you're at.
• 1:34:50
  SPEAKER_02: I got all these colored glasses,
• 1:34:53
  SPEAKER_02: and so I'll have a blue piece of paper,
• 1:34:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll have one kid with yellow glasses and one kid with red glasses.
• 1:35:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, what color's the paper?
• 1:35:02
  SPEAKER_02: And this kid's purple and this kid's green.
• 1:35:04
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, would you bet money on that?
• 1:35:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:35:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then they switch and they're like, no, you were right.
• 1:35:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I'm saying?
• 1:35:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's all about perception.
• 1:35:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you're teaching perception through that exercise.
• 1:35:17
  SPEAKER_01: That is crazy.
• 1:35:19
  SPEAKER_01: That is super creative.
• 1:35:21
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
• 1:35:23
  SPEAKER_02: I teach, I try any way I can.
• 1:35:26
  SPEAKER_02: I have a whole little bundle of learning resources I developed
• 1:35:31
  SPEAKER_02: about what is perception,
• 1:35:33
  SPEAKER_02: what is perspective,
• 1:35:35
  SPEAKER_02: and how it affects who we are and how two people can both be right.
• 1:35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Sisko, do you have
• 1:35:41
  SPEAKER_00: any questions about this?
• 1:35:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of curious how different things are amongst generations you're working.
• 1:35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:35:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's like the iPad babies.
• 1:35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's a great question.
• 1:35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:35:57
  SPEAKER_01: Monica, because when I was growing up,
• 1:35:59
  SPEAKER_01: it's only very recently,
• 1:36:01
  SPEAKER_01: past few years, especially as I got involved content creating.
• 1:36:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:36:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I even heard these terms, ADHD,
• 1:36:08
  SPEAKER_01: neurodivergence,
• 1:36:10
  SPEAKER_01: and Sully, our good friend from the Other Vibes Sesh, amazing neurodivergent guy.
• 1:36:14
  SPEAKER_01: He wrote a book about neuro, a novel about neurodivergence, right?
• 1:36:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was Tourette's.
• 1:36:19
  SPEAKER_01: And he has Tourette's and he's this amazing, beautiful human being, you know?
• 1:36:23
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like completely,
• 1:36:26
  SPEAKER_01: because of his Tourette's,
• 1:36:28
  SPEAKER_01: he became super focused because he would like focus on not getting the ticks.
• 1:36:33
  SPEAKER_01: And this turned into his superpower.
• 1:36:35
  SPEAKER_01: Now he can, you know, move that freaking focus energy anywhere he wants, right?
• 1:36:40
  SPEAKER_01: And he just turned into this beautiful person.
• 1:36:43
  SPEAKER_01: I talk to him all the time on WhatsApp.
• 1:36:45
  SPEAKER_01: We leave each other.
• 1:36:46
  SPEAKER_01: I've never met this guy.
• 1:36:47
  SPEAKER_01: In real life.
• 1:36:48
  SPEAKER_01: But he's amazing.
• 1:36:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I didn't know what this was until very recently, right?
• 1:36:54
  SPEAKER_01: So are more people becoming ADHD?
• 1:36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Something happening in the world where there's more?
• 1:37:00
  SPEAKER_01: Or are we diagnosing better?
• 1:37:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's your thoughts on that whole thing?
• 1:37:05
  SPEAKER_02: No, I think it's always been there.
• 1:37:06
  SPEAKER_02: We just have labels for it now.
• 1:37:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I really do think.
• 1:37:09
  SPEAKER_02: I look back at my family and I'm like, oh, yes.
• 1:37:14
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 1:37:15
  SPEAKER_02: And oh, yeah.
• 1:37:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I look back and there's that thing.
• 1:37:18
  SPEAKER_02: There's that thing.
• 1:37:21
  SPEAKER_02: There's this.
• 1:37:22
  SPEAKER_02: I saw something.
• 1:37:23
  SPEAKER_02: I can't.
• 1:37:23
  SPEAKER_02: It was like a meme or something.
• 1:37:25
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like, you know, ADHD or no, autism didn't exist back in the day.
• 1:37:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, a grandma is saying like ADHD didn't exist back in the day.
• 1:37:36
  SPEAKER_02: But no, we only use the special China on Sundays.
• 1:37:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, like we like there's.
• 1:37:42
  SPEAKER_02: We only do this on Sunday.
• 1:37:43
  SPEAKER_01: You have to write a book, I think.
• 1:37:45
  SPEAKER_01: This is your next book.
• 1:37:48
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing stories.
• 1:37:49
  SPEAKER_01: No, Cisco?
• 1:37:51
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine this whole book of all these stories.
• 1:37:54
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 1:37:54
  SPEAKER_02: No, but I mean, it's no.
• 1:37:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I can tell you from working with people who have,
• 1:38:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like I, yeah, it's been going on for a long time.
• 1:38:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I can tell you because I've worked with people who are Back when I was young,
• 1:38:13
  SPEAKER_02: in my 20s,
• 1:38:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was working with people who were in their 50s and 60s who were autistic,
• 1:38:18
  SPEAKER_02: who were neurodivergent and just perceived the world differently
• 1:38:23
  SPEAKER_02: and had different belief systems.
• 1:38:28
  SPEAKER_02: The human brain is just fascinating.
• 1:38:30
  SPEAKER_02: I worked with this guy who, when I was doing the DOJ work,
• 1:38:41
  SPEAKER_02: He, I don't know what, this popped into my head.
• 1:38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't have anything
• 1:38:51
  SPEAKER_02: to do with anything.
• 1:38:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so I would look at all these risk factors, right?
• 1:38:56
  SPEAKER_02: So anything related to a therapy thing,
• 1:38:59
  SPEAKER_02: so people who choked on their food eating or had a lot of falls and injuries.
• 1:39:04
  SPEAKER_02: So this guy had a lot of falls.
• 1:39:06
  SPEAKER_02: And come to find out,
• 1:39:10
  SPEAKER_02: There are some issues with balance and stuff like that,
• 1:39:12
  SPEAKER_02: but he was getting injured a lot and hospitalized for falls.
• 1:39:15
  SPEAKER_02: But long story short, he thought he was on a modified diet.
• 1:39:20
  SPEAKER_02: He couldn't have cake.
• 1:39:21
  SPEAKER_02: He had to have certain techniques.
• 1:39:22
  SPEAKER_02: He had problems with swallowing.
• 1:39:24
  SPEAKER_02: So he couldn't eat a lot of cake, right?
• 1:39:25
  SPEAKER_02: Loved cake.
• 1:39:27
  SPEAKER_02: So he thought that if he walked backwards, he was invisible.
• 1:39:34
  SPEAKER_02: So when he wanted cake, he would walk backwards.
• 1:39:39
  SPEAKER_02: To the cake and like fall.
• 1:39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God.
• 1:39:43
  SPEAKER_02: I loved him so much.
• 1:39:46
  SPEAKER_00: And... That's so unique.
• 1:39:47
  SPEAKER_00: You can't make that shit up.
• 1:39:49
  SPEAKER_00: Bro, I didn't make a video about this.
• 1:39:52
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, you gotta make videos about things like this.
• 1:39:55
  SPEAKER_02: Full on believed.
• 1:39:57
  SPEAKER_02: Full on believed with his whole self that no one was gonna catch him getting
• 1:40:03
  SPEAKER_02: that cake if he was walking backwards.
• 1:40:07
  SPEAKER_02: So, but it was... No, like it...
• 1:40:11
  SPEAKER_00: He's moonwalking away.
• 1:40:12
  SPEAKER_01: He's moonwalking.
• 1:40:13
  SPEAKER_01: He's Michael Jackson, bro.
• 1:40:18
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 1:40:19
  SPEAKER_02: And he had all these quirky things going on.
• 1:40:25
  SPEAKER_02: This guy was awesome.
• 1:40:27
  SPEAKER_02: And to this day,
• 1:40:28
  SPEAKER_02: when I have kids who can't stop running in the hallways,
• 1:40:31
  SPEAKER_02: I will give them a rearview mirror.
• 1:40:33
  SPEAKER_02: So one of the things I wanted to do for him was give him a rearview mirror.
• 1:40:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, just hold up this mirror.
• 1:40:38
  SPEAKER_02: If you've got to walk backwards, at least you can see.
• 1:40:42
  SPEAKER_01: She's the best.
• 1:40:43
  SPEAKER_01: I want to receive a gift from her, man.
• 1:40:46
  SPEAKER_00: She's the best with gifts.
• 1:40:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're meeting him at his level.
• 1:40:51
  SPEAKER_01: Love that, bro.
• 1:40:52
  SPEAKER_02: If you're gonna do it, just do it safe.
• 1:40:55
  SPEAKER_02: Look back there and see.
• 1:40:57
  SPEAKER_01: Cisco, this is such an important lesson, man.
• 1:40:59
  SPEAKER_01: You said something amazing.
• 1:41:01
  SPEAKER_01: She's meeting people at their level, at their frequency.
• 1:41:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's my goal.
• 1:41:07
  SPEAKER_00: She's providing a safe space of non-judgment,
• 1:41:10
  SPEAKER_00: which everyone struggles with because they're fucking judged.
• 1:41:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's why literally my test is called Open Mind.
• 1:41:18
  SPEAKER_01: Bro, this is what Vibe Session is all about, bro.
• 1:41:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's all connecting, bro.
• 1:41:22
  SPEAKER_02: My whole program, my book is called Open Mind.
• 1:41:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's my program, right?
• 1:41:26
  SPEAKER_02: Because like, you know, we judge people within one hundredth of a second.
• 1:41:33
  SPEAKER_02: We make a judgment about, okay, this is crazy.
• 1:41:35
  SPEAKER_02: We make a judgment about a person's character.
• 1:41:39
  SPEAKER_02: Mainly what they've researched is whether somebody's trustworthy or untrustworthy.
• 1:41:43
  SPEAKER_02: Within one hundredth of a millisecond, Damn, I
• 1:41:47
  SPEAKER_01: gotta make a video about this.
• 1:41:50
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 1:41:51
  SPEAKER_01: Say it again.
• 1:41:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so we make a judgment about a person's character.
• 1:41:56
  SPEAKER_02: Typically,
• 1:41:58
  SPEAKER_02: the research studies on whether somebody's trustworthy or not
• 1:42:01
  SPEAKER_02: within 100 milliseconds of seeing their face.
• 1:42:05
  SPEAKER_02: So we have already judged whether this person's good or bad, right?
• 1:42:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like everything that have you want to get into the neuro behind it,
• 1:42:13
  SPEAKER_02: like to simplify the neuro part.
• 1:42:17
  SPEAKER_02: Every sensory stimulus that comes into our,
• 1:42:20
  SPEAKER_02: you know, consciousness, we've heard of the amygdala, right?
• 1:42:24
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people talk about the amygdala and hippocampus.
• 1:42:27
  SPEAKER_02: We basically, their job is to put it into a box, it's good or bad, right?
• 1:42:31
  SPEAKER_02: So if you think about high energy with anticipation,
• 1:42:36
  SPEAKER_02: if you're putting that into a good box, that's excitement.
• 1:42:39
  SPEAKER_02: If you're putting that into a bad box, it's like nervous or anxious.
• 1:42:44
  SPEAKER_02: Still high energy.
• 1:42:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's still anticipation.
• 1:42:48
  SPEAKER_02: But one's in a good box, one's in a bad box.
• 1:42:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 1:42:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think it's like we're constantly making these judgments.
• 1:42:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so because we're trying to conserve energy,
• 1:42:59
  SPEAKER_02: because our primary goal as a human being,
• 1:43:01
  SPEAKER_02: even though we're like, we think we're so evolved, it's just to survive.
• 1:43:05
  SPEAKER_02: We're trying to save time.
• 1:43:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 1:43:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so That's how bias comes into play, right?
• 1:43:16
  SPEAKER_02: We're trying to save time when we say, like,
• 1:43:19
  SPEAKER_02: this part of this experience right now in the past has been bad,
• 1:43:25
  SPEAKER_02: so we're just going to take it,
• 1:43:26
  SPEAKER_02: just to be safe, we're going to say this is bad too, right?
• 1:43:29
  SPEAKER_02: So that's where that comes into play,
• 1:43:31
  SPEAKER_02: that bias,
• 1:43:31
  SPEAKER_02: that judgment, that why we judge so quick, it's just a matter of survival.
• 1:43:36
  SPEAKER_00: Sister, do you have any questions?
• 1:43:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as of right now, no, not this point.
• 1:43:43
  SPEAKER_01: But Monica, let me ask you something.
• 1:43:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been reading, you know, Robert Sapolsky?
• 1:43:50
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think so.
• 1:43:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, amazing.
• 1:43:51
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta, you gotta read something.
• 1:43:52
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk more about it.
• 1:43:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but so he has one idea.
• 1:43:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'll DM you his books and name, but he has this one idea, right?
• 1:44:01
  SPEAKER_01: That really, he said that empathy becomes easier when When the chain of causality gets longer.
• 1:44:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:44:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:44:13
  SPEAKER_01: So he's saying like, so for example, someone screams at a cashier.
• 1:44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Five seconds back, he looks like an asshole.
• 1:44:21
  SPEAKER_01: Five hours back, he hasn't slept or eaten and lost his job.
• 1:44:27
  SPEAKER_01: Five years back, he has been caring for a parent with dementia.
• 1:44:31
  SPEAKER_01: 50 years back, he learned that the fear had to become anger because sadness got him humiliated.
• 1:44:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, 100%.
• 1:44:38
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think about that?
• 1:44:40
  SPEAKER_01: But then they're like, how do we hold people accountable?
• 1:44:42
  SPEAKER_01: And what does even accountability mean?
• 1:44:45
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so first of all, there's a term for that.
• 1:44:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's called fundamental attribution error, right?
• 1:44:52
  SPEAKER_02: Or correspondence bias is when we attribute someone's actions
• 1:44:56
  SPEAKER_02: to their character instead of their circumstances, right?
• 1:45:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I always use that example of Road rage, right?
• 1:45:05
  SPEAKER_02: Someone cut you off and you're immediately like, asshole, can't wait, impatient.
• 1:45:11
  SPEAKER_02: You're giving them all these labels, right?
• 1:45:13
  SPEAKER_02: Because they just kind of threatened you and your safety and they cut you off
• 1:45:17
  SPEAKER_02: and it looks like they're just trying to get there first, right?
• 1:45:21
  SPEAKER_02: But I always give this example.
• 1:45:22
  SPEAKER_02: What if they just got a call that their loved one was in the emergency room
• 1:45:26
  SPEAKER_02: and they might not make
• 1:45:27
  SPEAKER_02: it five more minutes and they're trying to get there, right?
• 1:45:31
  SPEAKER_02: To make sure they're there before the person passes, right?
• 1:45:35
  SPEAKER_02: So we do that with people all damn day.
• 1:45:39
  SPEAKER_02: We do that with people all the time.
• 1:45:42
  SPEAKER_02: We attribute their actions to their character, but that's not fair.
• 1:45:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's that 100 milliseconds or whatever that we're attributing.
• 1:45:52
  SPEAKER_02: We're just seeing the thing and then we're making the easiest, quickest assumption, right?
• 1:45:59
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas if we can...
• 1:46:02
  SPEAKER_02: A big part of mindfulness too is I call it like regret prevention.
• 1:46:06
  SPEAKER_02: So you're seeing that somebody's doing something and you're having that compassion,
• 1:46:11
  SPEAKER_02: you're having that empathy, you're having that what if, right?
• 1:46:14
  SPEAKER_02: What if they're, and I always say that, like what if they're on the way, right?
• 1:46:18
  SPEAKER_02: To go and do something that's way more important than whatever you're doing now.
• 1:46:22
  SPEAKER_02: Going to the grocery store or whatever.
• 1:46:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think it's that awareness.
• 1:46:29
  SPEAKER_02: I always try to keep that awareness in mind that there's a possibility
• 1:46:34
  SPEAKER_02: that what you're seeing as somebody who's being rude or
• 1:46:39
  SPEAKER_02: is just struggling.
• 1:46:40
  SPEAKER_02: They're just in pain.
• 1:46:42
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, Monica, so this for you, it must be, tell me how you feel.
• 1:46:46
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like because you've seen everything, you understand how everything works?
• 1:46:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of those things, right?
• 1:46:51
  SPEAKER_01: Once you see it, you can't unsee it, right?
• 1:46:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so for you,
• 1:46:55
  SPEAKER_01: when you see in the shopping mall,
• 1:46:57
  SPEAKER_01: wherever there's a kid and a parent,
• 1:47:00
  SPEAKER_01: the parent's frustrated and they're yelling at them and this and that,
• 1:47:03
  SPEAKER_01: like, or the child is behaving and stuff, do you like see everything?
• 1:47:07
  SPEAKER_01: And do you,
• 1:47:07
  SPEAKER_01: it seems like you understand everybody's side,
• 1:47:09
  SPEAKER_01: like the kid's side, that the And so you're like just this aware Buddha girl.
• 1:47:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like you,
• 1:47:16
  SPEAKER_01: like you must be understanding of everything or like what's going on in your mind
• 1:47:19
  SPEAKER_01: because you see, you've seen already so much.
• 1:47:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you look at any situation, you're like, oh, okay.
• 1:47:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think I know what's going on.
• 1:47:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:47:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's almost like a curse.
• 1:47:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:47:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:47:30
  SPEAKER_02: No, but also like it's, it's, it's harder the closer it is to me.
• 1:47:35
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:47:36
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I can do that professionally and I feel like I'm, somewhat proficient at that.
• 1:47:42
  SPEAKER_02: But when it gets close,
• 1:47:47
  SPEAKER_02: when it's someone I love that's being hurt by said person, it becomes way harder.
• 1:47:54
  SPEAKER_02: Because then that's all the bias of me wanting to protect said person I love.
• 1:47:59
  SPEAKER_02: And me being more quick to jump to Erring on the side of protecting
• 1:48:04
  SPEAKER_02: the person I love than being open-minded and correct necessarily about
• 1:48:08
  SPEAKER_02: the person's intentions, right?
• 1:48:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel like, and I've made mistakes.
• 1:48:14
  SPEAKER_02: I make mistakes all the time.
• 1:48:18
  SPEAKER_02: Have you seen the video I did with the matches in a row?
• 1:48:24
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes when I'm philosophical, I feel like I don't get a lot of engagement.
• 1:48:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh, right.
• 1:48:28
  SPEAKER_02: Tossing a whole hoop through a ball through a whole hoop.
• 1:48:32
  SPEAKER_02: But then sometimes I feel like I'm like, oh, I got this profound idea.
• 1:48:36
  SPEAKER_01: Or you get very poetic.
• 1:48:37
  SPEAKER_01: We got to go over some of your stories.
• 1:48:39
  SPEAKER_01: After you finish, I want to go over a story.
• 1:48:43
  SPEAKER_02: But I think when we...
• 1:48:45
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever had a person that just triggered you?
• 1:48:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's a certain person that just pissed you off?
• 1:48:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's happened recently, yeah.
• 1:48:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that because when that happens,
• 1:48:58
  SPEAKER_02: like it doesn't, like what they do doesn't exist in a vacuum.
• 1:49:01
  SPEAKER_02: So there's like this thing with a match, right?
• 1:49:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then I have this like whole row of matches.
• 1:49:05
  SPEAKER_02: And when they do, it doesn't just like light you up like what they did.
• 1:49:09
  SPEAKER_02: It like catches all of the other, every other thing they've ever done.
• 1:49:15
  SPEAKER_02: Every characteristic about them that you don't like in anyone else
• 1:49:19
  SPEAKER_02: or anything they stand for that you also can't stand in other issues of your life,
• 1:49:25
  SPEAKER_02: all of that gets inflamed.
• 1:49:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's now a bonfire.
• 1:49:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because all the fuel of all your bias has just been poor, including with that person.
• 1:49:41
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like a lot of times when somebody makes us angry,
• 1:49:43
  SPEAKER_02: we don't just get angry at what they've done just now.
• 1:49:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's like everything they've ever done, which isn't really fair to them, right?
• 1:49:51
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that a lot of times it's hard to separate.
• 1:49:55
  SPEAKER_02: And some people just...
• 1:49:57
  SPEAKER_02: Dump a lot of fuel and fire.
• 1:50:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're right, JM.
• 1:50:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to shout out JM.
• 1:50:05
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry about JM.
• 1:50:06
  SPEAKER_02: No, I have a couple of JMs in my life and it's like...
• 1:50:11
  SPEAKER_01: But now you're making me think, Monica.
• 1:50:13
  SPEAKER_01: Monica, you're making me think.
• 1:50:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, why was I so triggered by them?
• 1:50:16
  SPEAKER_01: But here's the thing.
• 1:50:17
  SPEAKER_01: I really felt like I was super patient with this guy.
• 1:50:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like if it wasn't for, he was part of the Vibe Sesh community on X, right?
• 1:50:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I was actually, Monica,
• 1:50:26
  SPEAKER_01: to my credit,
• 1:50:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was more patient than I normally ever would have because I was like,
• 1:50:31
  SPEAKER_01: he's part of the community.
• 1:50:33
  SPEAKER_01: Other people seem to like him.
• 1:50:35
  SPEAKER_01: But he's very disruptive.
• 1:50:36
  SPEAKER_01: He's rude to women, for example.
• 1:50:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like a woman comes on stage and...
• 1:50:40
  SPEAKER_01: He's argumentative.
• 1:50:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, argumentative.
• 1:50:43
  SPEAKER_01: Or one woman came on board and she said...
• 1:50:45
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway.
• 1:50:47
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what I mean?
• 1:50:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there were legitimate reasons and I was patient.
• 1:50:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then I got the community involved and I was like, listen, we can't keep doing this.
• 1:50:55
  SPEAKER_01: He's like treating women this way.
• 1:50:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to kick him out.
• 1:50:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 1:51:00
  SPEAKER_01: So there are boundaries, though.
• 1:51:02
  SPEAKER_01: Where do boundaries fit into all this, Monica?
• 1:51:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, ooh, that's a good one.
• 1:51:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think that,
• 1:51:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think we just have to get,
• 1:51:14
  SPEAKER_02: well, part of it is just, is being comfortable with like being uncomfortable, right?
• 1:51:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think, and a lot of it is just, okay, so my, okay, so let me just tell you a story.
• 1:51:25
  SPEAKER_02: I had actually did a, I did a reel about this a while ago, but.
• 1:51:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:51:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, my son, my son, he's just got his driver's license this week.
• 1:51:34
  SPEAKER_02: Which is also he's at the movies right now with his girlfriend.
• 1:51:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like, oh, he just started driving by himself without me in the car.
• 1:51:40
  SPEAKER_02: But when he first started driving in Florida,
• 1:51:42
  SPEAKER_02: you have to have your permit for a whole year before.
• 1:51:45
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
• 1:51:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:51:46
  SPEAKER_02: Where are you, by the way?
• 1:51:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in Brazil right now, but I grew up in New York.
• 1:51:51
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 1:51:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:51:54
  SPEAKER_00: Massachusetts.
• 1:51:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:51:56
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:51:57
  SPEAKER_02: Brazil.
• 1:51:57
  SPEAKER_02: Damn.
• 1:51:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:51:59
  SPEAKER_02: So that's awesome.
• 1:52:02
  SPEAKER_02: So...
• 1:52:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he's driving and, and somebody cuts him off.
• 1:52:06
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:52:07
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, he slams on the brakes and then he's like upset.
• 1:52:12
  SPEAKER_02: And, um, and I'm like, he's like, as like, you, you got to stop.
• 1:52:17
  SPEAKER_02: You got to stop a little bit sooner next time.
• 1:52:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like you almost hit him.
• 1:52:21
  SPEAKER_02: He did.
• 1:52:21
  SPEAKER_02: We almost, and I, I was in a really bad car accident in 2018, like a really bad car accident.
• 1:52:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's still, I feel the effects of today.
• 1:52:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:52:28
  SPEAKER_02: And he was with me.
• 1:52:29
  SPEAKER_02: He was actually in the back.
• 1:52:31
  SPEAKER_02: And luckily his younger brothers weren't in the car because we were on the way
• 1:52:34
  SPEAKER_02: to get them because the whole back,
• 1:52:35
  SPEAKER_02: we had a minivan,
• 1:52:36
  SPEAKER_02: the whole back was total, the whole back was crushed in up to where he was.
• 1:52:39
  SPEAKER_02: So like, thank God we hadn't gotten them yet.
• 1:52:41
  SPEAKER_02: But it was a thing, right?
• 1:52:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's why he like waited a little bit to get his permit.
• 1:52:47
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, he almost hit the guy and I was like, you got to stop sooner.
• 1:52:50
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, but it was his fault.
• 1:52:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, but it's not your job.
• 1:52:56
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter whose fault it is.
• 1:52:58
  SPEAKER_02: Your only goal is to not crash.
• 1:53:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, the only way in
• 1:53:04
  SPEAKER_02: this situation to be right is to not crash.
• 1:53:07
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, yes, he was wrong, but his wrongness doesn't affect your rightness.
• 1:53:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that's,
• 1:53:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think my biggest thing,
• 1:53:15
  SPEAKER_02: I think the takeaway,
• 1:53:16
  SPEAKER_02: and we've had many conversations since then because he's gotten into things
• 1:53:19
  SPEAKER_02: with people and they've been wrong and they've pissed him off.
• 1:53:22
  SPEAKER_02: And like, there are some times when you just can't use logic and reason, even when somebody's
• 1:53:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like morally, ethically, just logically wrong.
• 1:53:35
  SPEAKER_02: They're not going to see it.
• 1:53:36
  SPEAKER_02: And you're just going to harm yourself if you keep trying to convince them.
• 1:53:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the biggest teaching,
• 1:53:43
  SPEAKER_02: one of the biggest teachings I'm trying to teach my kids
• 1:53:46
  SPEAKER_02: and I'm still learning myself is like,
• 1:53:48
  SPEAKER_02: just because someone's wrong, it doesn't affect your rightness.
• 1:53:51
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes you just have to let it go and let
• 1:53:53
  SPEAKER_00: them do the
• 1:53:54
  SPEAKER_02: thing
• 1:53:54
  SPEAKER_02: and just I'm not saying cut them out, because sometimes that's not an option.
• 1:54:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's kind of a cop-out too.
• 1:54:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's that Lotus thing, right?
• 1:54:09
  SPEAKER_02: There's something to living with people like that around you.
• 1:54:13
  SPEAKER_01: Damn, what do you think about this?
• 1:54:15
  SPEAKER_01: Damn, that's another level.
• 1:54:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:54:18
  SPEAKER_01: Some of my most popular videos.
• 1:54:23
  SPEAKER_01: Bad messages or something.
• 1:54:26
  SPEAKER_01: I said, access denied.
• 1:54:28
  SPEAKER_01: Access denied was one of my best videos.
• 1:54:31
  SPEAKER_01: I was like,
• 1:54:32
  SPEAKER_01: hey man,
• 1:54:32
  SPEAKER_01: if somebody's annoying you, especially online, I block in less than half a second.
• 1:54:38
  SPEAKER_02: Block, block, block.
• 1:54:42
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes that's necessary too, right?
• 1:54:44
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm saying like, yeah, sometimes you just have to...
• 1:54:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I get you.
• 1:54:52
  SPEAKER_01: You can't give up too easily.
• 1:54:53
  SPEAKER_02: Let them think that they are who they are.
• 1:54:56
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead.
• 1:54:57
  SPEAKER_02: You're right.
• 1:55:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I think boundaries are important.
• 1:55:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then just sometimes conceding to that.
• 1:55:08
  SPEAKER_02: I don't need external validation.
• 1:55:10
  SPEAKER_02: I don't need that person to believe me.
• 1:55:13
  SPEAKER_01: For me to believe myself.
• 1:55:15
  SPEAKER_02: I guess that's it.
• 1:55:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't need you to believe me for me to believe myself, right?
• 1:55:19
  SPEAKER_02: Me believing myself is enough, if that makes sense.
• 1:55:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:55:23
  SPEAKER_01: Monica, so we're approaching the two-hour mark.
• 1:55:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking like, Cisco, what would you like Monica?
• 1:55:28
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to hear her?
• 1:55:30
  SPEAKER_01: Let me see.
• 1:55:30
  SPEAKER_01: There was a very interesting...
• 1:55:31
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to hear the moth story or would you like Monica to lead us in
• 1:55:36
  SPEAKER_01: a loving kindness meditation?
• 1:55:38
  Hmm.
• 1:55:40
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 1:55:43
  SPEAKER_00: I did see the moth reel.
• 1:55:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think a meditation, though, would be a good state change.
• 1:55:51
  SPEAKER_00: We could ask the eternal loop.
• 1:55:55
  SPEAKER_00: At the conclusion of the meditation.
• 1:55:58
  SPEAKER_02: Can I ask you a question about the moth thing, though?
• 1:56:01
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about the moth.
• 1:56:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'll do the loving kindness meditation.
• 1:56:06
  SPEAKER_01: No, but we can talk about the moth.
• 1:56:07
  SPEAKER_01: I want to do what Cisco
• 1:56:09
  SPEAKER_02: wants to do.
• 1:56:14
  SPEAKER_02: When you watch the moth thing,
• 1:56:16
  SPEAKER_02: what did you ultimately, if you had to boil it all down, what would you think about?
• 1:56:21
  SPEAKER_01: Good question.
• 1:56:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'm just curious,
• 1:56:23
  SPEAKER_02: because it didn't get a lot of engagement,
• 1:56:26
  SPEAKER_02: but when I explained it to my two kids who are teenagers,
• 1:56:30
  SPEAKER_02: I explained it to them,
• 1:56:32
  SPEAKER_02: and they both came up with this,
• 1:56:35
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't say this word in the video or in the caption.
• 1:56:40
  SPEAKER_02: But they both came up with this one word that they said it was
• 1:56:43
  SPEAKER_01: about.
• 1:56:46
  SPEAKER_02: Did anything resonate with you about what the artificial light represents and
• 1:56:52
  SPEAKER_02: the moths circling around represented?
• 1:56:53
  SPEAKER_02: What did you like?
• 1:56:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what I remember is you were saying that moths,
• 1:57:00
  SPEAKER_00: they fly backwards against the light to see in front of them.
• 1:57:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:57:07
  SPEAKER_02: People used to Use the thing like they fly toward the light.
• 1:57:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm attracted to the light.
• 1:57:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like I need the light.
• 1:57:13
  SPEAKER_02: I want to like go to the light.
• 1:57:15
  SPEAKER_02: But really they use the light as like a beak, as like a guide, right?
• 1:57:19
  SPEAKER_02: So like they use it as a tool.
• 1:57:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like they put their backs to it and that tells them which way is up.
• 1:57:22
  SPEAKER_02: So if their backs are to the light, then they're flying straight, right?
• 1:57:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like they're, they know which way is up and down.
• 1:57:28
  SPEAKER_02: It teaches them which way is up and down.
• 1:57:31
  SPEAKER_02: But when they see an artificial light, they just start getting like trapped.
• 1:57:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's not really the way.
• 1:57:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's not really the up.
• 1:57:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like a whirlpool taking you in and then you were relating it
• 1:57:47
  SPEAKER_00: to social media consumption, I believe.
• 1:57:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you're just a moth kind of staying in one place.
• 1:57:55
  SPEAKER_00: I would say like a hamster wheel.
• 1:57:56
  SPEAKER_00: I would say hamster
• 1:58:00
  SPEAKER_01: wheel is good.
• 1:58:00
  SPEAKER_01: I would say distraction for me.
• 1:58:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:58:05
  SPEAKER_02: Both of my kids said addiction.
• 1:58:07
  SPEAKER_02: Said the word addiction.
• 1:58:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, what?
• 1:58:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, because yes.
• 1:58:13
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, yes.
• 1:58:14
  SPEAKER_02: Because anything we do that we consider to be a way up,
• 1:58:22
  SPEAKER_02: that we depend on, that we get sucked into.
• 1:58:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, whoa, they both are on separate.
• 1:58:27
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't even talking to them together, right?
• 1:58:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was talking to
• 1:58:31
  SPEAKER_01: them separately.
• 1:58:31
  SPEAKER_01: And they both.
• 1:58:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, whoa.
• 1:58:36
  SPEAKER_02: Both of them said that.
• 1:58:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
• 1:58:38
  SPEAKER_02: Both of them, 14 and 17.
• 1:58:39
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, whoa, okay.
• 1:58:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I was just curious if like that,
• 1:58:42
  SPEAKER_02: because I actually,
• 1:58:43
  SPEAKER_02: after I stepped back and thought about it,
• 1:58:44
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, that could actually be, I was thinking of screen addiction.
• 1:58:48
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, how people get sucked in, right?
• 1:58:50
  SPEAKER_02: Mindless, like consumption, like consumption, right?
• 1:58:54
  SPEAKER_02: Of social media.
• 1:58:55
  SPEAKER_02: But it is, it can become like an addiction.
• 1:58:59
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I'm addicted to AI, but I feel like it's a good addiction, Monica.
• 1:59:03
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's because it's expanding my mind.
• 1:59:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I'm justifying myself,
• 1:59:07
  SPEAKER_01: but I talk a lot to AI and I feel like I am the Vibe Samurai,
• 1:59:12
  SPEAKER_01: large part due to my conversations with AI.
• 1:59:15
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 1:59:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 1:59:18
  SPEAKER_02: See, I'm like an AI virgin.
• 1:59:20
  SPEAKER_02: No, I am.
• 1:59:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm in a book club and I had this conversation and everybody was like, what?
• 1:59:27
  SPEAKER_02: You've never used ChatGPT?
• 1:59:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, never.
• 1:59:30
  SPEAKER_02: I've never.
• 1:59:31
  SPEAKER_02: Never.
• 1:59:32
  SPEAKER_02: I've never.
• 1:59:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a virgin.
• 1:59:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 1:59:36
  SPEAKER_02: Monica.
• 1:59:37
  SPEAKER_01: Monica.
• 1:59:40
  SPEAKER_01: I am a million percent sure if you really went deep with ChatGPT, you would love it.
• 1:59:46
  SPEAKER_01: You would love it.
• 1:59:47
  SPEAKER_01: You would become another person.
• 1:59:49
  SPEAKER_01: Your life would be transformed.
• 1:59:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure your life is good, but whatever it is that, you know, it's like such an amplifier.
• 1:59:57
  SPEAKER_01: If you're using it correctly, or at least I'm using it correctly.
• 2:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: Research, ideas, connections.
• 2:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: Brainstorming.
• 2:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 2:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 2:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like everything about this Vibe Sesh, I've talked about you with AI a long time.
• 2:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah!
• 2:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: To really get me, I have a whole preparation thing for every guest, right?
• 2:00:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like spending two days, three days, what do you think about her?
• 2:00:20
  SPEAKER_01: Or what do you think happened when she was a kid?
• 2:00:22
  SPEAKER_01: Or why would she say that?
• 2:00:23
  SPEAKER_01: Or what's going on?
• 2:00:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and it's all in my head.
• 2:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then by the time I go in there, I can pull on different things from my head, right?
• 2:00:31
  SPEAKER_01: So...
• 2:00:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:00:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:00:33
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, AI has been amazing and it's interesting, but good.
• 2:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: You're not like super anti AI.
• 2:00:38
  SPEAKER_01: Some of our special guests are like, no,
• 2:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 2:00:41
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't,
• 2:00:42
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't used it, but I mean, I'm, you know, I just, I just haven't used it.
• 2:00:49
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 2:00:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like I just
• 2:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: have it.
• 2:00:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not, no shade, like no judgment.
• 2:00:56
  SPEAKER_02: I know there's great, I love your account, so obviously I love that.
• 2:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there you go.
• 2:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's a freaking team.
• 2:01:05
  SPEAKER_01: All right, let's do the meditation.
• 2:01:07
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
• 2:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: Let's end that off.
• 2:01:09
  SPEAKER_01: This was amazing vibe sesh, bro.
• 2:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: Cisco, I think this was our best vibe sesh ever.
• 2:01:16
  SPEAKER_01: So much wisdom, man.
• 2:01:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my God, I love you guys.
• 2:01:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 2:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: So good.
• 2:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like end us off with a great, so loving kindness.
• 2:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: Can you give us like,
• 2:01:27
  SPEAKER_01: I hear a lot about it,
• 2:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: but I've never really, I'm not, I haven't done it a lot, right?
• 2:01:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like I remember kind of vague, but remind us of what loving kindness is.
• 2:01:35
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you talk about it?
• 2:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why is it important?
• 2:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then maybe leave us to a guide.
• 2:01:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:01:41
  SPEAKER_02: So, um, It's really about, and there's tons.
• 2:01:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it sounds woo-woo, like, oh, just love and peace.
• 2:01:49
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, there's like so much research on the benefits of loving kindness,
• 2:01:53
  SPEAKER_02: not only for psychological well-being, but,
• 2:01:58
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 2:01:59
  SPEAKER_02: they've done like where they look at,
• 2:02:02
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 2:02:02
  SPEAKER_02: heart rate variability and,
• 2:02:04
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 2:02:04
  SPEAKER_02: all these kind of risk factors health-wise that get improved
• 2:02:08
  SPEAKER_02: by loving kindness meditation.
• 2:02:11
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know,
• 2:02:13
  SPEAKER_02: There's tons of research showing that even if you're loving kindness in action,
• 2:02:18
  SPEAKER_02: like doing kind acts,
• 2:02:20
  SPEAKER_02: people actually have more health benefits when they do kind acts for others than
• 2:02:24
  SPEAKER_02: when they do kind acts for themselves.
• 2:02:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like people talk about self-care and all this.
• 2:02:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 2:02:28
  SPEAKER_02: research shows that people have more benefits when they do kind acts for others,
• 2:02:32
  SPEAKER_02: right,
• 2:02:32
  SPEAKER_02: that are just kind of anonymously kind,
• 2:02:35
  SPEAKER_02: not like I do this thing and now I'm going to talk about it.
• 2:02:42
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 2:02:44
  SPEAKER_02: You really just, with kids, I do it with like the preschool program I did.
• 2:02:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like you do kind of a little mantra, right?
• 2:02:53
  SPEAKER_02: So may you be loved, may you be free, may you feel joy, may you have peace or whatever.
• 2:03:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like just like a little kind of mantra that they do.
• 2:03:05
  SPEAKER_02: And the way they do it in the research protocols is you start out with yourself, right?
• 2:03:11
  SPEAKER_02: So may you be loved, may you have peace, may you feel joy, may you be free, whatever it is.
• 2:03:20
  SPEAKER_02: And you kind of do that and you say it towards yourself, right?
• 2:03:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then the second progression is you kind of send loving kindness to somebody
• 2:03:29
  SPEAKER_02: that you love, like somebody super close to you, right?
• 2:03:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's very easy to do.
• 2:03:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then the next progression is Is you kind of send loving kindness
• 2:03:40
  SPEAKER_02: to somebody who's hurting or somebody who's suffering, which is really compassion.
• 2:03:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's the difference between kindness and compassion.
• 2:03:46
  SPEAKER_02: Kindness is like we're both going to leave the building and I'm just going to hold
• 2:03:52
  SPEAKER_02: the door open for you because that's kind, right?
• 2:03:54
  SPEAKER_02: Compassion is when I see you hobbling down in a knee brace and I'm going to stop
• 2:04:00
  SPEAKER_02: and I'm running late.
• 2:04:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm going to like hold the door for you because I can see that you're suffering.
• 2:04:05
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 2:04:05
  SPEAKER_01: So that's compassion.
• 2:04:08
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 2:04:08
  SPEAKER_02: So like the third one, you're kind of sending loving kindness to somebody who's hurting
• 2:04:13
  SPEAKER_02: or somebody who's having a hard time.
• 2:04:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's like another aspect where you're sending loving kindness
• 2:04:19
  SPEAKER_02: to somebody who you think might just need it.
• 2:04:21
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 2:04:21
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody in the world who like nurses, I feel like just kind of need teachers.
• 2:04:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 2:04:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like they're just in it.
• 2:04:28
  SPEAKER_02: They're in it.
• 2:04:29
  SPEAKER_02: They're in the trenches.
• 2:04:29
  SPEAKER_02: They're not making a lot of money.
• 2:04:30
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're sending compassion,
• 2:04:32
  SPEAKER_01: you're thinking, what are you actually doing to send that
• 2:04:35
  SPEAKER_02: compassion?
• 2:04:36
  SPEAKER_02: Either just if you are a language person and you want to say kind of the mantra.
• 2:04:43
  SPEAKER_02: I always say, may you be loved...
• 2:04:49
  SPEAKER_02: May you be free.
• 2:04:51
  SPEAKER_02: There's some people who will say, may you be healthy, but what if you're not healthy?
• 2:04:55
  SPEAKER_01: You can still be free and not be healthy.
• 2:05:03
  SPEAKER_02: I have a lot of times, one of the things I'll do is when people are hurting are people you miss.
• 2:05:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'll have kids who have lost a parent or lost someone,
• 2:05:13
  SPEAKER_02: and they send loving kindness, so not healthy, but may you be free.
• 2:05:19
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of like, may you be loved, may you be free, like may you have joy, may you have peace.
• 2:05:25
  SPEAKER_02: So like all of those things,
• 2:05:26
  SPEAKER_02: those like immeasurables in Buddhism, like the immeasurables, right?
• 2:05:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so you can either, oh, and so then the next one is you kind of, this is the hardest one.
• 2:05:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember I was in a training during COVID.
• 2:05:39
  SPEAKER_02: I did this whole series of trainings for people who were doing nonprofit work,
• 2:05:43
  SPEAKER_02: like service related work on stress management.
• 2:05:46
  SPEAKER_02: And like, how do you, when you're serving others, how do you, Take care of yourselves.
• 2:05:51
  SPEAKER_02: But
• 2:05:52
  SPEAKER_02: and I remember I had somebody tell me like this next one is you send living kindness
• 2:05:56
  SPEAKER_02: to people you cannot.
• 2:05:57
  SPEAKER_02: You're JM.
• 2:05:58
  SPEAKER_02: You're sending loving kindness.
• 2:05:59
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, no.
• 2:06:01
  SPEAKER_02: I can't do it.
• 2:06:02
  SPEAKER_01: I can't freaking do it.
• 2:06:06
  SPEAKER_01: I was with you this whole
• 2:06:10
  SPEAKER_00: time.
• 2:06:13
  SPEAKER_01: Bro, the immediate reaction, literally, like from a physical level.
• 2:06:17
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, no.
• 2:06:20
  SPEAKER_02: I guarantee you, JM needs some love.
• 2:06:26
  SPEAKER_02: I guarantee you, JM needs some love.
• 2:06:31
  SPEAKER_02: The last one is like the whole world.
• 2:06:33
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 2:06:33
  SPEAKER_02: So, but I was in this training and this person that was on the training said, um, we did it.
• 2:06:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like a couple of weeks later after we did the,
• 2:06:40
  SPEAKER_02: we did the whole series of loving kindness.
• 2:06:42
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, and she told him like, we were talking, it was like a lot of sharing.
• 2:06:45
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 2:06:45
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, you know, I know exactly who I'm going to do.
• 2:06:48
  SPEAKER_02: There's this person in my homeowner's association.
• 2:06:50
  SPEAKER_02: He's the worst.
• 2:06:51
  SPEAKER_02: And he was her JM, right?
• 2:06:54
  SPEAKER_02: No word of a lie.
• 2:06:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like three weeks later, we were like sharing.
• 2:06:58
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, I have to like this beginning of the freaking training session.
• 2:07:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because like when I tell you that this group was special, 21 sessions.
• 2:07:08
  SPEAKER_02: And we had people who attended every single one.
• 2:07:11
  SPEAKER_02: There were some people.
• 2:07:12
  SPEAKER_02: It was set up to a non-profit I worked for.
• 2:07:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was leading the sessions, but there were people that attended every single session.
• 2:07:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's crazy.
• 2:07:19
  SPEAKER_02: 21 consecutive sessions.
• 2:07:21
  SPEAKER_02: But this woman says, she was in tears.
• 2:07:25
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, so basically at the very beginning, she's like, J.M.
• 2:07:30
  SPEAKER_02: died.
• 2:07:31
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, J.M.
• 2:07:32
  SPEAKER_02: just passed away.
• 2:07:33
  SPEAKER_02: It was unexpected.
• 2:07:34
  SPEAKER_01: No, J.M.!
• 2:07:35
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm feeling it, bro.
• 2:07:37
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't mean to be alive.
• 2:07:40
  SPEAKER_02: Her J.M.
• 2:07:42
  SPEAKER_02: passed away.
• 2:07:43
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like,
• 2:07:44
  SPEAKER_02: If I had been in a place of like hating him,
• 2:07:49
  SPEAKER_02: she's like, I would feel terrible right now.
• 2:07:52
  SPEAKER_02: But because I was doing that practice where I was trying to like send him love.
• 2:07:59
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 2:08:01
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, I would be miserable.
• 2:08:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's sad.
• 2:08:05
  SPEAKER_02: But she's like, thank goodness I had done this, right?
• 2:08:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because I would feel even worse right now.
• 2:08:12
  SPEAKER_02: If he had passed while I was hating him.
• 2:08:15
  SPEAKER_02: I had just started this practice of trying to love him.
• 2:08:18
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
• 2:08:21
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want anything to happen to actual James.
• 2:08:23
  SPEAKER_00: He's a great guy.
• 2:08:25
  SPEAKER_00: He's a great guy.
• 2:08:26
  SPEAKER_00: Is he?
• 2:08:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's just certain people, let's just say.
• 2:08:34
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm a woman.
• 2:08:36
  SPEAKER_02: I probably know exactly the kind of person you're speaking of.
• 2:08:41
  SPEAKER_01: But...
• 2:08:43
  SPEAKER_02: But no, I think with loving kindness, if you can start out with that.
• 2:08:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 2:08:49
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 2:08:50
  SPEAKER_01: Cisco, before we end,
• 2:08:51
  SPEAKER_01: do you have any questions for Monica or anything else you want to say
• 2:08:54
  SPEAKER_01: about this Vibe session?
• 2:08:55
  SPEAKER_01: It was amazing.
• 2:08:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we typically do this question at the conclusion.
• 2:09:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's called the internal loop.
• 2:09:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 2:09:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know where it comes from.
• 2:09:06
  SPEAKER_00: You need to remind me, Bruno.
• 2:09:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember.
• 2:09:09
  SPEAKER_01: Just keep going.
• 2:09:10
  SPEAKER_00: We already got the Viktor Frankl thing wrong,
• 2:09:15
  SPEAKER_02: so… You didn't conclude with Viktor Frankl, did you?
• 2:09:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 2:09:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank goodness we didn't do it.
• 2:09:20
  SPEAKER_00: But basically,
• 2:09:22
  SPEAKER_00: eternal loop,
• 2:09:23
  SPEAKER_00: we basically like to ask this question, like,
• 2:09:25
  SPEAKER_00: what is one experience that if for the rest of your life,
• 2:09:28
  SPEAKER_00: this one experience,
• 2:09:30
  SPEAKER_00: and you're going to enjoy it,
• 2:09:31
  SPEAKER_00: you're going to be happy about it, you're not going to get sick of it.
• 2:09:35
  SPEAKER_00: What is one looping experience that you could have eternally?
• 2:09:41
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, my gosh, that's a really good question.
• 2:09:43
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, man.
• 2:09:46
  SPEAKER_01: Think about it.
• 2:09:46
  SPEAKER_01: Just take a few seconds.
• 2:09:47
  SPEAKER_01: Go ahead.
• 2:09:48
  SPEAKER_01: I really want you to answer.
• 2:09:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, think about it.
• 2:09:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's forever, forever, forever.
• 2:09:52
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to be so present that you don't even there's no concept of time.
• 2:09:56
  SPEAKER_01: So this whole some people say, am I going to get tired of it?
• 2:09:59
  SPEAKER_01: No, you're not going to get tired.
• 2:10:00
  SPEAKER_01: But you have to pick that one experience.
• 2:10:04
  SPEAKER_01: That you're going to put on repeat for the rest of your life.
• 2:10:06
  SPEAKER_01: What is it?
• 2:10:07
  SPEAKER_01: And the answers are so interesting depending on the person.
• 2:10:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy, but I'm curious.
• 2:10:13
  SPEAKER_02: I have to say, I don't know if it's like necessary.
• 2:10:18
  SPEAKER_02: There have been a couple of these times when all four of my children
• 2:10:24
  SPEAKER_02: and my husband have all been at the same table and we've like laughed till we cried.
• 2:10:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that would be it.
• 2:10:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think
• 2:10:32
  SPEAKER_01: that would be it.
• 2:10:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think that and then we all just like got it.
• 2:10:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we were all there.
• 2:10:39
  SPEAKER_02: We were all totally there laughing until we cried.
• 2:10:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's it.
• 2:10:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 2:10:44
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it was like we're playing cards or we're like reminiscing or we're talking
• 2:10:49
  SPEAKER_02: about a situation that happened or but there have been those rare moments
• 2:10:53
  SPEAKER_02: where we all laughed till we cried.
• 2:10:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's it.
• 2:10:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's beautiful.
• 2:10:58
  SPEAKER_01: The rare moments.
• 2:11:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know what's so interesting, Monica?
• 2:11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Some guests,
• 2:11:08
  SPEAKER_01: it's such a question that they either joke around about it or they're like,
• 2:11:13
  SPEAKER_01: I would get tired.
• 2:11:13
  SPEAKER_01: You don't like that.
• 2:11:15
  SPEAKER_01: But your answer, wow.
• 2:11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's amazing.
• 2:11:20
  SPEAKER_02: What's yours?
• 2:11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Me?
• 2:11:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:11:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in my loop right now.
• 2:11:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm being serious.
• 2:11:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm being serious.
• 2:11:31
  SPEAKER_01: This is my happy place.
• 2:11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Every Monday and Wednesday, I was going to actually start off the show.
• 2:11:38
  SPEAKER_01: This is my happy place.
• 2:11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Literally,
• 2:11:40
  SPEAKER_01: this is where I feel like the most present and just feels familiar
• 2:11:45
  SPEAKER_01: and it just feels like belonging and it's so warm and Oh man, you're amazing.
• 2:11:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 2:11:52
  SPEAKER_01: like I'm making these connections and the fact that social media
• 2:11:56
  SPEAKER_01: and all this stuff could do this,
• 2:11:58
  SPEAKER_01: like in what other world would we have met, Monica, right?
• 2:12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like in being on the stage, all three of us together.
• 2:12:04
  SPEAKER_01: That is crazy that technology is able to help us do this, right?
• 2:12:09
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I'm in my room.
• 2:12:11
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 2:12:12
  SPEAKER_02: What about you, Cisco?
• 2:12:13
  SPEAKER_02: What's yours?
• 2:12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say I'm in a similar boat with experiencing like true presence with family.
• 2:12:20
  SPEAKER_00: Especially with like a beautiful naturistic view like Portugal or when we went
• 2:12:27
  SPEAKER_00: to Hawaii like there's just those the past doesn't exist
• 2:12:30
  SPEAKER_00: the future doesn't exist right now it's
• 2:12:34
  SPEAKER_02: yeah yeah that's awesome.
• 2:12:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 2:12:38
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, guys.
• 2:12:38
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 2:12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Monica, this is amazing, Monica.
• 2:12:43
  SPEAKER_01: You're crazy than I thought.
• 2:12:45
  SPEAKER_01: You're hysterical.
• 2:12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 2:12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Guys, thank you very much.
• 2:12:48
  SPEAKER_00: The world's got to see you more.
• 2:12:50
  SPEAKER_00: You should turn and flip the camera.
• 2:12:52
  SPEAKER_01: More camera.
• 2:12:53
  SPEAKER_01: More Monica, man.
• 2:12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe even live stream.
• 2:12:57
  SPEAKER_00: People probably have so many questions that they can ask you.
• 2:13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:13:04
  SPEAKER_00: We recommend the live.
• 2:13:05
  SPEAKER_00: You did great today.
• 2:13:07
  SPEAKER_00: The flow state for two hours.
• 2:13:12
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 2:13:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not comfortable in front of the camera.
• 2:13:15
  SPEAKER_02: So this was fun.
• 2:13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 2:13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 2:13:18
  SPEAKER_01: All right, Monica.
• 2:13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 2:13:20
  SPEAKER_01: All right, guys.
• 2:13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 2:13:23
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see you guys next time, next Monday.
• 2:13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Have a great night.
• 2:13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Peace.