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Tiny Bone Fragment on Hacksaw: Did Hubby Chop up Wife Over Sex or Money? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece.
0:12
Speaker 2: A gorgeous young mom goes missing, never seen again, coincidentally
0:20
Speaker 2: on New Year's Day. In the last hours in the
0:25
Speaker 2: search for Anna Walsh, a bone fragment emerges, not just
0:33
Speaker 2: a bone fragment, but the location of the bone fragment
0:38
Speaker 2: on a hacksaw, as we learn about the surreptitious hiring
0:45
Speaker 2: of a private investigators, as rumors swirl that Anna Walsh
0:51
Speaker 2: was having a sex affair, So what she gets the
0:55
Speaker 2: death penalty?
0:56
Speaker 3: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
0:59
Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation
1:00
Speaker 2: and Serious xem one eleven.
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Speaker 3: It's not just a bone fragment.
1:06
Speaker 2: A bone fragment, believe it or not, can be found
1:09
Speaker 2: under innocent circumstances, but a bone fragment on a hack
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Speaker 2: saw as a whole another thing. Take a listen to
1:18
Speaker 2: our friends at NBC ten.
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Speaker 4: He was also captured visiting dumpsters at apartment complexes. By
1:23
Speaker 4: the time detectives searched them, most of them had been
1:25
Speaker 4: emptied and the contents incinerated. But in Swampscott investigators found
1:30
Speaker 4: a number of items belonging to Anna, as well as
1:32
Speaker 4: some of the items mister Walsh had purchased.
1:35
Speaker 5: The hacksaw that was had red brown staining in several areas.
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Speaker 5: When it was disassembled, a small fragment of bone was recovered.
1:43
Speaker 5: The time ex suit had a red brown stain on
1:45
Speaker 5: the exterior. The stain was tested and Anna Walsh DNA
1:51
Speaker 5: was determined to be a contributor.
1:52
Speaker 4: Brian Walsh's defense attorney claims evidence testing so far has
1:56
Speaker 4: been inconclusive.
1:57
Speaker 3: Well, you can't rule them out, okay.
2:02
Speaker 2: If that bone fragment cannot be matched up to Anna Walch.
2:06
Speaker 2: If in fact the testing is inconclusive, then that means
2:11
Speaker 2: absolutely nothing in a court of law. You've got to
2:15
Speaker 2: get that DNA match up if it's possible, with me
2:18
Speaker 2: an all star panel to make sense of what we
2:20
Speaker 2: know right now. But first, I'm going to go out
2:22
Speaker 2: to forensic pathologist, medical examiner, and lucky for US detective author,
2:27
Speaker 2: a homicide investigation field guide. She became a household name
2:32
Speaker 2: during the Alex Murdin prosecution, doctor Michelle Duprie joining us.
2:37
Speaker 2: Doctor Dupree, thank you for being with us. Before we
2:39
Speaker 2: go to the breaking news reporter for The Washington Examiner,
2:43
Speaker 2: Rachel Shilkey, Doctor Duprie there's a lot of evidence found
2:50
Speaker 2: all over crime scenes and beyond. I remember sifting through
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Speaker 2: evidence on a playground when I was prosecuting my first
2:57
Speaker 2: mass murder and I found, believe or not, on the playground,
3:01
Speaker 2: specifically around the Merry Go Round, a lot of ballistics evidence,
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Speaker 2: and I was thrilled that I had caught something, found
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Speaker 2: something that the cops had missed.
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Speaker 3: Well, I didn't.
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Speaker 2: I found bullets and cartridges, but they didn't match up
3:17
Speaker 2: to the known murder weapon.
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Speaker 3: They were in no way connected to my case.
3:23
Speaker 2: So you find a bone fragment and a dumpster, that
3:27
Speaker 2: means nothing to me unless you can match it up
3:32
Speaker 2: to my case, right or wrong.
3:36
Speaker 6: That's right, Nancy. I mean you have to have something
3:38
Speaker 6: that tracks that piece of evidence back to the case
3:41
Speaker 6: that you're investigating. And if you don't have it, then
3:43
Speaker 6: you really don't have that as part of your case.
3:46
Speaker 6: So hopefully there will be something that will tie that
3:49
Speaker 6: bone fragment to the case, whether it's DNA, whether it's
3:53
Speaker 6: something like that, that would be great.
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Speaker 2: I'm challenging everybody on the panel an innocent way of
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Speaker 2: finding a bone fragment, Okay, Dodger in DPRI another case,
4:05
Speaker 2: I was investigating another homicide, was in a bar and
4:09
Speaker 2: teeth were found. Well, I know this sounds crazy, but
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Speaker 2: I was thrilled because I thought it was going to
4:15
Speaker 2: be the teeth of my murder victim. Well it wasn't. Obviously,
4:20
Speaker 2: somebody else had been in a bar brawl and got a.
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Speaker 3: Tooth knocked out. So an innocent in other words, not
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Speaker 3: part of a murder case.
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Speaker 2: Piece of evidence that you would think is tied to
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Speaker 2: your case, and it's not. What is any innocent explanation
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Speaker 2: a non nefarious explanation for a bone fragment being found
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Speaker 2: in a dumpster?
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Speaker 3: That's to you, daughter dupre Nancy.
4:45
Speaker 6: There could be many, many, many reasons. I mean, it
4:47
Speaker 6: could be an ammal bone, It could be a bone
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Speaker 6: from somebody at a butcher shop. It could be where
4:52
Speaker 6: someone accidentally cut their finger and part of the bone
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Speaker 6: as well. There can be so many different explanations. And
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Speaker 6: if it's in a dumpster, can you imagine the contamination?
5:01
Speaker 6: How do you narrow all of that down to just
5:04
Speaker 6: your victim and your crime?
5:06
Speaker 2: Doctor, Michelle Dupree, isn't it true that even when DNA
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Speaker 2: is contaminated, you can steal in some cases, isolate the
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Speaker 2: contaminant from the DNA and still get DNA.
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Speaker 3: I mean, you've got.
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Speaker 2: Bodies that have been that are decomposing in water, underwater,
5:24
Speaker 2: in mud, in a rape cases, you've got multiple sperm
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Speaker 2: donors in gang rapes.
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Speaker 3: I mean, none of these are pretty pictures.
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Speaker 2: But my point is DNA's contaminated all the time, but
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Speaker 2: in many cases it can be isolated the contaminant and
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Speaker 2: the relevant DNA.
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Speaker 6: Yes, No, absolutely, Nancy. And all we have to do
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Speaker 6: is show that part of that DNA is from the
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Speaker 6: person that we need it to be from. In this case,
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Speaker 6: our victim.
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Speaker 2: That said, let's not put the cart before the horse,
5:52
Speaker 2: let me go to breaking these investigative reporter with the
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Speaker 2: Washington Examiner, Rachel Shelkey, it's a real pleasure you want.
6:00
Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us today without any further ado.
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Speaker 2: Have you seen, of course you have the picture of
6:08
Speaker 2: the dumpster.
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Speaker 7: Yes, I have.
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Speaker 2: Okay, here's a phenomena, and I can't wait to hear
6:13
Speaker 2: everybody else in the panelway in I'm sure doctor Bethany
6:16
Speaker 2: Marshall Payco analyst out of Beverly.
6:18
Speaker 3: Hills, where they have so many problems where a to
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Speaker 3: shop today?
6:23
Speaker 2: You know, how Rachel Shulkey, A certain fact of a
6:28
Speaker 2: case can just put your stomach in a knot, and
6:32
Speaker 2: it may not be the evidence that you would guess.
6:35
Speaker 2: For instance, in my first carjack murder case, I saw this.
6:42
Speaker 3: Young man's body.
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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, Rachel, he was I think my victim
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Speaker 2: was seventeen. He lived at home with his parents. He's
6:50
Speaker 2: an honor student. He came outside to get something out
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Speaker 2: of the car, and the purp just comes along, seize
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Speaker 2: the car, what's the car? And shoots my teen boy dead,
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Speaker 2: my victim in that case, I mean, and okay, there
7:08
Speaker 2: was the autopsy, there was the crime scene, there was
7:10
Speaker 2: the blood, there was the family just in complete and
7:14
Speaker 2: utter pain.
7:15
Speaker 3: But this is what got me, Rachel, she'll key.
7:18
Speaker 2: The next door neighbor heard a shot, ran outside, saw
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Speaker 2: the neighbor boy. I mean, he's seventeen, practically a man,
7:26
Speaker 2: but they all thought he was the boy next door,
7:29
Speaker 2: ran in, got a pillow off their bed, ran back out,
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Speaker 2: and put his head on a pillow.
7:38
Speaker 3: He was dead or dying at that moment. He was dead.
7:42
Speaker 2: But that act of trying to comfort the dead teen
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Speaker 2: boy I remember. I'm still remembering it. The pathos of
7:54
Speaker 2: that moment. That's what's what got me. I mean, I
7:59
Speaker 2: can look dead bodies all day and all night long,
8:02
Speaker 2: no problem. But two Anna Walsh. This dumpster. Police found
8:09
Speaker 2: a slew of evidence regarding Anna Walsh's body, and the
8:14
Speaker 2: photo I'm looking at I found at the New York Post,
8:19
Speaker 2: but I'm sure it's the crime scene photo. I mean,
8:23
Speaker 2: this woman, Rachel Sheilkee, is so glamourus, so beautiful, this
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Speaker 2: great mom to three.
8:29
Speaker 3: Little boys, ages two, four, and six.
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Speaker 2: And this is her parting photo, this crammed, full, nasty
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Speaker 2: dumpster inside a chain link fence.
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Speaker 3: It's just upsetting Rachel.
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Speaker 7: It really is, and I think it also is probably
8:45
Speaker 7: just upsetting for her family and friends who maybe thought
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Speaker 7: that she was actually going to come home and the
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Speaker 7: fact that they had this beautiful light in their lives
8:54
Speaker 7: that represented so much to them, and then for them
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Speaker 7: to find out that not only do they not know
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Speaker 7: where her body is, but the only testament to this
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Speaker 7: case at this moment where her almost quote unquote I
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Speaker 7: guess last resting place is this dumpster just doesn't seem
9:08
Speaker 7: to do her justice.
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Speaker 2: To anybody, Guys, if you don't recognize Rachel Shilkey's voice,
9:15
Speaker 2: let me tell you she is a lead breaking news
9:19
Speaker 2: investigative reporter for the Washington examin Her Rachel tell me
9:24
Speaker 2: about the bone fragment found on a hack saw as
9:30
Speaker 2: I understand it, in this dumpster.
9:33
Speaker 7: I mean, it's kind of incredible the fact that you know,
9:37
Speaker 7: video evidence showed him, Brian Walsh, going to the store
9:41
Speaker 7: buying all these supplies, and to then see these supplies
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Speaker 7: transfer into a dumpster, to have possibly blood and a
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Speaker 7: possible bone fragment belonging to his wife on this tack saw.
9:54
Speaker 7: Just to see it, I think in front of you.
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Speaker 7: I'm not an investigator, but to have an investigator see
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Speaker 7: that and to recognize, okay, yes, this is a probably
10:01
Speaker 7: going to be a murder investigations. It must be incredibly
10:06
Speaker 7: terrible to be a part of that and to have
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Speaker 7: to see that. And I just there's so many layers
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Speaker 7: to this case, and I think the fact that you
10:13
Speaker 7: can transfer the video evidence directly to the hacksaw. Most
10:16
Speaker 7: likely there's other parts of this case that I'm sure
10:19
Speaker 7: are going to come out, but the fact that there
10:21
Speaker 7: is this bone fragment that you know, I think most
10:24
Speaker 7: people would want to speculate belongs to Anna Walsh.
10:27
Speaker 8: Can you say that for sure?
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Speaker 7: No, not yet. But like the doctor was saying, if
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Speaker 7: this is something that ends up being a DNA master,
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Speaker 7: I think it can make this case go amazingly in
10:38
Speaker 7: the prosecutor's favor and drastically downhill for Brian Walsh.
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Speaker 2: You know you said something really interesting, Rachel Shulke. Don't
10:45
Speaker 2: sell yourself short, because I'm very familiar with your work,
10:48
Speaker 2: you said, and I'm not an investigator. Well, you are
10:51
Speaker 2: an investigator reporter, and I would venture to guess you're
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Speaker 2: a better investigator than a lot of investigators I've seen.
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Speaker 3: He would drid buy this and go what what?
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Speaker 2: That's an ump stir and it would mean nothing to them,
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Speaker 2: But it means something to you, just like a piece
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Speaker 2: of evidence out of place, like a bone fragment.
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Speaker 3: Sure you heard doctor Michelle Duprey.
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Speaker 2: I knew to go to her because she can tell
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Speaker 2: you any circumstances where a bone fragment is found somewhere innocently.
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Speaker 1: For being our partner Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
12:57
Speaker 2: Let me go to Jessica Garth, she of the Special
13:00
Speaker 2: Victims and Family Violence Unit at Prince George's County. Jessica,
13:04
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. A piece of evidence
13:09
Speaker 2: out of place. Let's talk about Lacy Peterson one moment.
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Speaker 2: And I use Lacy Peterson so often because there's so
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Speaker 2: much evidence in it that it can fit practically any
13:20
Speaker 2: comparison I want to make. Do you remember, Jessica Garth,
13:25
Speaker 2: when Lacy Peterson's hair, her beautiful long hair, was found
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Speaker 2: not just on Scott Peterson's secret boat that he told
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Speaker 2: nobody he was buying, that he happened to go fishing
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Speaker 2: in on the day his wife's body she goes missing
13:44
Speaker 2: and is dumped at the body of water where he
13:48
Speaker 2: went fishing the day she's killed. Her hair is found
13:53
Speaker 2: like not just stuck to it, like you know, a
13:57
Speaker 2: cat hair on your shirt. But twy up in I
14:02
Speaker 2: think it was spliers, wasn't it, Jackie of Scott Peterson's
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Speaker 2: It's not just out. It's not on her brush, it's
14:10
Speaker 2: not on her clothing. It's not on their bedspread or
14:13
Speaker 2: in her car. It's on his pliers at his work,
14:17
Speaker 2: at his office where he keeps the boat.
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Speaker 3: It's side of place. Or here's another good one.
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Speaker 2: Jessica Garth Kelly Anthony, her mother top Mom Casey Anthony
14:28
Speaker 2: murdered her and her Kelly's hair was found in top
14:36
Speaker 2: Mom's car trunk. Now why would child's hair be in
14:41
Speaker 2: the car trunk? And you can come up with a
14:43
Speaker 2: lot of scenarios, but this is evidence that anywhere else
14:49
Speaker 2: wouldn't raise an eyebrow. But in these locations are significant,
14:54
Speaker 2: like this piece of bone on a hacksaw.
14:57
Speaker 9: Absolutely, And you're talking about evidence a place, and really
15:00
Speaker 9: what it is is it's a puzzle any case like
15:03
Speaker 9: this where you don't have a body and you're having
15:05
Speaker 9: to rely on circumstantial evidence. Every little piece of evidence helps.
15:09
Speaker 9: So when you have a hacksaw right after your prime
15:11
Speaker 9: suspect has purchased a hacksaw, you know on film, hacksaw
15:15
Speaker 9: that has you know, the DNA of your victim on it,
15:18
Speaker 9: and then you find a bone fragment that certainly is
15:21
Speaker 9: strong circumstantial evidence that points to the fact that this
15:24
Speaker 9: hacksaw was used a foreigner farious purposes to dismember your victim,
15:28
Speaker 9: and that's why you've been unable to recover her body.
15:31
Speaker 2: You said that so beautifully Jessica Garth. Okay, everybody, you
15:36
Speaker 2: better sit down. In fact, you may need to lay
15:38
Speaker 2: down for this. Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us. Renowned psychoanalyst
15:43
Speaker 2: out of Beverly Hills. You can find her at doctor
15:46
Speaker 2: Bethany Marshall dot com. Star of a Netflix hit, Bling Empire.
15:51
Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany, let me work up to this. Everybody pays
15:55
Speaker 2: jump in when you have an idea, Doctor Bethany. I
15:59
Speaker 2: will never forget before David and I got married, I was,
16:03
Speaker 2: of course in New York and he was in Atlanta.
16:07
Speaker 2: Of course, he travels all over the world doing his business.
16:11
Speaker 2: I wouldn't know more about it, but the emails are
16:13
Speaker 2: so boring. As you know, my eyes blood when I
16:16
Speaker 2: watched him. So I'm not sure.
16:17
Speaker 3: Exactly what he does, but it's really boring.
16:21
Speaker 2: That said, there was a horrible snowstorm in Atlanta, so
16:27
Speaker 2: the cell phones have been.
16:28
Speaker 3: Out and I'm calling calling, Are you okay? I said, Hey,
16:31
Speaker 3: I got your on the phone. Where are you goes?
16:33
Speaker 2: I just got back from buying a chainsaw. I'm like,
16:37
Speaker 2: for who, who's going to use a chainsaw? And he
16:40
Speaker 2: went to me, I'm going to clear off some trees.
16:44
Speaker 2: That fell in the front yard. I'm like, no, no,
16:47
Speaker 2: cash Cow is not cranking up a chainsaw and cutting
16:53
Speaker 2: off your fingers or your hand or something. You save
16:58
Speaker 2: those fingers for punching that calculator and emails and all
17:02
Speaker 2: the things you do.
17:04
Speaker 3: Forget about the trees. They don't matter.
17:08
Speaker 2: So I still remember him going finding out he went
17:11
Speaker 2: and bought a chainsaw, just you know, because that's not
17:16
Speaker 2: his thing. Yes, he can do home repairs and all that.
17:20
Speaker 2: But leads me to Brian Walsh, out of the blue
17:25
Speaker 2: goes and buys a hack saw. Now, the other day
17:28
Speaker 2: David went and did get a hacksaw. Why because helping
17:32
Speaker 2: my son and daughter on a scout project. I mean,
17:35
Speaker 2: that's not the kind of thing he would do on
17:39
Speaker 2: a daily basis.
17:39
Speaker 3: He's not a contractor.
17:42
Speaker 2: It doesn't build things typically, So out of the blue
17:46
Speaker 2: Brian Walsh, who was an art collector slash dealers, slash
17:50
Speaker 2: fraudulent art collector, remember all those Andy Warhol painting fraud
17:54
Speaker 2: he did. But Bethany, if I hear I'm gonna go
18:00
Speaker 2: buy a hack saw, Like, why why do you need
18:03
Speaker 2: a hacksaw?
18:04
Speaker 3: Help me?
18:04
Speaker 2: Help me figure out what I'm trying to say here,
18:06
Speaker 2: doctor Bethany.
18:07
Speaker 8: Okay, so not only the hacksaw, but when you look
18:09
Speaker 8: at those photos of him in the in the hardware store,
18:13
Speaker 8: he has a mop, he has other cleaning supplies, he
18:17
Speaker 8: has a bucket, and he looks like he owns uh
18:21
Speaker 8: a janitor company, because janitorial cleaning supply company. He has
18:26
Speaker 8: so much product in that part. And Nancy, he looks
18:29
Speaker 8: so nonchalant, as if he doesn't know that there are
18:33
Speaker 8: cameras all over the place. But I'm going to circle
18:37
Speaker 8: back to something you said about evidence like Lacy Peterson's
18:43
Speaker 8: hair being entwined impliers on Scott's boat, about Kaylee Anthony's
18:50
Speaker 8: hair being in the trunk of the mother's car, and
18:53
Speaker 8: how this is so out of place. But from a
18:56
Speaker 8: psychoanalytic perspective, I don't think it is out of place,
18:59
Speaker 8: because what ties all of these circumstances together is that
19:03
Speaker 8: the evidence is very close to where the purp lives.
19:08
Speaker 8: We know that most children who are murdered are discovered
19:11
Speaker 8: less than a third of a mile away from the parents' home.
19:16
Speaker 8: We know that criminals often camp out at their mother's homes,
19:21
Speaker 8: and we know that this dumpster where Anna Walsh's bone
19:27
Speaker 8: fragment was found on the hacksaw was very near Brian
19:31
Speaker 8: Walsh's mother's home. So if we look at the story
19:34
Speaker 8: behind the story behind the story, all of these perpetrators
19:38
Speaker 8: are really staying within close proximity of where they live,
19:43
Speaker 8: where they work, and I would think from a domestic
19:46
Speaker 8: violence perspective that this is where the homicidal, murderous thoughts
19:51
Speaker 8: and feelings fomented. I want to get rid of my
19:54
Speaker 8: daughter Kaylee because I want to go on a date.
19:57
Speaker 8: I'm going to slap duct tape.
19:59
Speaker 7: On her mouth.
20:00
Speaker 8: I'm going to shove in the trunk of my car.
20:02
Speaker 8: I'm pissed because I think my wife's having an affair.
20:06
Speaker 8: She has this huge life insurance policy. I want it
20:08
Speaker 8: all for myself. I'm sitting at my mother's kitchen table,
20:13
Speaker 8: foaming at the mouth, complaining about my wife getting her
20:17
Speaker 8: to hire a PI. And you know what, it's so
20:20
Speaker 8: close to home that once I murder my wife, I'm
20:23
Speaker 8: just going to put her in the dumpster next to
20:25
Speaker 8: my mother's house. So I think, from a psychological perspective,
20:30
Speaker 8: the proximity of the evidence to where these purps live, work,
20:35
Speaker 8: and fantasize about homicide is extremely important.
20:40
Speaker 2: I'm just making note somewhat you're saying, doctor Bethany, I
20:42
Speaker 2: love giving you a hard time about working with your
20:45
Speaker 2: clients on rodeo drive and where are they going to
20:47
Speaker 2: shop today and blah blah blah. But you know what,
20:51
Speaker 2: doctor Bethany, you bring up so many incredible points and
20:56
Speaker 2: just so everybody knows, isn't this true? Jessica Garth, where's
21:00
Speaker 2: talking about.
21:00
Speaker 3: The bone fragment and what it means and what we can.
21:03
Speaker 2: Extrapolate evidentiarily from that, And that is exactly how you
21:08
Speaker 2: build a case if you want to win anyway. You
21:11
Speaker 2: look at each piece of evidence and you think and
21:15
Speaker 2: think and think, what can I prove with this one
21:21
Speaker 2: piece of evidence?
21:23
Speaker 3: Isn't that true? Jessica? Absolutely true?
21:25
Speaker 9: And you also look at the evidence and you think,
21:27
Speaker 9: you know, what else could this be? So you know,
21:29
Speaker 9: when you're asking what are some you know, non nefarious
21:32
Speaker 9: reasons why a bone fragment might be found on a hacksaw?
21:35
Speaker 9: Certainly as a prosecutor, you're considering those explanations that you
21:38
Speaker 9: can knock down those attacks as you're trying to prove
21:41
Speaker 9: your case.
21:41
Speaker 2: You know, Rachel, she'll keep joining us investigative news reporter
21:44
Speaker 2: for the Washington Examiner.
21:46
Speaker 3: When we first spoke to her today, she was talking
21:49
Speaker 3: about the layers and the layers and the layers of
21:52
Speaker 3: this case.
21:53
Speaker 2: You are so right, Rachel, because think about it, whenever
21:57
Speaker 2: a defendant wouldn't show up to court, I go, why
22:00
Speaker 2: are you so worry? Just go over to his mother's
22:03
Speaker 2: house and look under the bed, Go look in her closet.
22:08
Speaker 2: Now that's where he is. He's in mommy's because mommy
22:11
Speaker 2: will always take care of you and protect you, even
22:15
Speaker 2: against LA law enforcement. Think about this, Rachel, She'll key.
22:21
Speaker 2: He goes to his mother's I mean it's not hers personally,
22:25
Speaker 2: but that's the dumpster she uses, her apartment building, her
22:29
Speaker 2: condo building uses.
22:30
Speaker 3: He goes to mommy's house to get rid of the evidence.
22:33
Speaker 2: That's a whole psychological bundle for me to figure out
22:37
Speaker 2: right there, that he's so connected to the mommy gets
22:41
Speaker 2: the mom to hire the PI.
22:42
Speaker 3: He tells the mama.
22:43
Speaker 2: She's sleeping around, she's such a big or let's hire
22:46
Speaker 2: a private investigator. And then he goes there. I guess
22:50
Speaker 2: for support for egging on. Isn't this dumpster near mom's place.
22:55
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's very I remember when I was first reporting
22:59
Speaker 7: on this case getting all the evidence together, that was
23:01
Speaker 7: something that really stuck out to me because I think
23:05
Speaker 7: that it does on one hand, like you pointed out,
23:07
Speaker 7: point out a psychological component to this case, but I
23:11
Speaker 7: think it also it was very interesting to me because
23:15
Speaker 7: I feel as though that if he did end up
23:18
Speaker 7: committing this murder, he didn't exactly hide it very well.
23:22
Speaker 7: He was caught on camera buying supplies. Those supplies were
23:27
Speaker 7: found in a dumpster.
23:28
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's what I was going to ask you, Rachel.
23:30
Speaker 2: He's caught on camera buying supplies. And I'm going to
23:33
Speaker 2: circle back in a sect to Lisa Daddio, former chief
23:37
Speaker 2: of police, about don't they know their surveillance video Hello
23:42
Speaker 2: and home Depot and Low's and Target and Walmart. But Rachel,
23:46
Speaker 2: the items found in the dumpster, what exactly are those items?
23:50
Speaker 3: If you could refresh our recollections.
23:52
Speaker 7: The blade knife was found in their home, the hack
23:54
Speaker 7: there was a hacksaw, a hatchet, rugs that investigators believe
23:59
Speaker 7: belonged to the Walsh at home, and then just various
24:02
Speaker 7: excess of cleaning supplies. I remember, just off of the
24:04
Speaker 7: top of my head looking at the receipt. It was
24:06
Speaker 7: it was buckets, it was mops, there was a hazmat suit,
24:09
Speaker 7: it was rags, the things that you you know, would
24:12
Speaker 7: allegedly use to cover up a crime. And so that's
24:15
Speaker 7: kind of why I was pointing to the fact that
24:17
Speaker 7: you know, he didn't if he ended up committing this crime,
24:19
Speaker 7: he didn't exactly hide it.
24:20
Speaker 3: Very well, and he wouldn't be the first.
24:24
Speaker 2: Does the name Fotus DilOS ring a bell, because it
24:27
Speaker 2: sure does to me. His wife, Jennifer's body still missing,
24:32
Speaker 2: five children to raise without a mother because he killed
24:36
Speaker 2: her and he was in on it, goading him along
24:40
Speaker 2: girlfriend mistress Michelle Traconis. Don't leave her out of this.
24:43
Speaker 2: She's the bills above to his satan. Guys, take a
24:46
Speaker 2: listen to our friends at w v I T regarding
24:51
Speaker 2: Jennifer Dolos.
24:52
Speaker 10: The arrest Warren sheds a lot of light on how
24:54
Speaker 10: authorities ultimately moved to charge him with kidnapping and felony murder.
24:57
Speaker 10: Today physical evidence were covered along Albany Avenue was a
25:00
Speaker 10: big factor in the police investigation over the summer. You'll remember,
25:04
Speaker 10: police said a man who appeared to be photos. Dulos,
25:06
Speaker 10: along with the woman who appeared to be Michelle Traconis,
25:08
Speaker 10: his girlfriend, recorded to disposing of garbage bags along Albany
25:13
Speaker 10: Avenue the night that Jennifer disappeared. While the arrest warrant,
25:16
Speaker 10: it lays out some of what was recovered from those
25:18
Speaker 10: garbage bags, including a bloody paper towel, a sponge, clothes, undergarments,
25:23
Speaker 10: duct tape and more that all contained Jennifer Dulos's DNA.
25:27
Speaker 2: Well, can I just say a very technical legal term, idiot?
25:32
Speaker 2: And he's not the only one. What about Bo Rothwell,
25:37
Speaker 2: I'll never forget that name. Take listen to KMOV.
25:41
Speaker 11: The husband Bo was seen on the eleventh, the day
25:44
Speaker 11: before Jennifer disappeared. He was seen on video buying cleaning
25:48
Speaker 11: products including bleach, carpet cleaner, and gloves. So last night
25:52
Speaker 11: we were there as police obtained that search warrn and
25:55
Speaker 11: went into the couple's home on North Winds Drive. They
25:58
Speaker 11: were in there for hours and they're now telling us
26:01
Speaker 11: the detective located wet carpet soaked with bleach and large
26:06
Speaker 11: areas of blood on the carpeting.
26:08
Speaker 2: I'm telling you, if David Lynch ever goes to Walmart
26:11
Speaker 2: Lowe's home depot target and buys a bunch of cleaning supplies.
26:15
Speaker 2: Go ahead, call me right then, because he's up to
26:18
Speaker 2: something that has never happened in life, you know. Lisa
26:21
Speaker 2: Daddio form a police chief, forming Deputy chief of police, Lisa,
26:26
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us.
26:28
Speaker 3: These people are not idiots.
26:30
Speaker 2: Photus Delos built multimillion dollar luxury homes. Brian Walsh was
26:37
Speaker 2: an art dealer and collector that moved in rarefied circles.
26:43
Speaker 2: Don't they see that video camera up there? Do they
26:46
Speaker 2: think they're immune? Haven't you seen this a million times?
26:49
Speaker 12: So yeah, we have, And I think what happens is,
26:53
Speaker 12: you know, dumpsters behind an apartment building, for example, Brian's
26:58
Speaker 12: probably not thinking that that area is under video surveillance. Yes,
27:01
Speaker 12: maybe other places you know around the building are or
27:05
Speaker 12: ring cameras, you know, from his home going to other
27:08
Speaker 12: places we know because that came up and to do
27:10
Speaker 12: those cases as well. But yet I don't think necessarily
27:15
Speaker 12: what he's doing regarding the dumpsters, he's thinking that there's
27:19
Speaker 12: any video footage back there. Now regarding the store purchases,
27:23
Speaker 12: come on, everybody knows everything you do there is under
27:27
Speaker 12: video surveillance from the minute you're you pull into the
27:29
Speaker 12: parking lot, so you walk in the store. As you
27:32
Speaker 12: move throughout the store at the cast registers, you know,
27:35
Speaker 12: is he trying to kind of hide his parents by
27:38
Speaker 12: wearing a mask in January to you know that you
27:43
Speaker 12: only see the top part of his hat, you know,
27:45
Speaker 12: hit his head. Is he wearing a mask any other
27:48
Speaker 12: time or is it only when he's going to these stores?
27:50
Speaker 12: I mean, it all becomes circumstantials, but it helps the investigators.
27:53
Speaker 2: And there's a method to it. Four cops lasidadio. I mean,
27:57
Speaker 2: here's a good example. Think about Ryan Coberger. Sorry to
28:01
Speaker 2: bring up that specter, but when cops were looking for
28:06
Speaker 2: the vehicle the PRIP would have used, they looked on
28:10
Speaker 2: that block, then they moved out, Then they moved out,
28:12
Speaker 2: then they moved out until they spot the Elantra. And
28:15
Speaker 2: we're going to see more about that Elantra on video.
28:18
Speaker 2: Here's a good example. I prosecuted a guy for murdering
28:21
Speaker 2: his wife by arson, and of course he clubbed her first.
28:26
Speaker 2: But I went to the site, of course, to the
28:29
Speaker 2: scene and was looking around, like where are all of
28:32
Speaker 2: his clothes? Where are his suits? This guy has a
28:36
Speaker 2: million dollar business. Where are his suits? So I turned
28:39
Speaker 2: to my investigator and said, let's get busy. Let's go
28:42
Speaker 2: to every dry cleaner. Let's start on this block and
28:44
Speaker 2: then go out, and then go out, and less than
28:47
Speaker 2: two miles away, the day before he sets house on fire,
28:50
Speaker 2: we found like twenty plus suits and shirts at a
28:54
Speaker 2: dry cleaner. I mean really, So that's how you find
28:58
Speaker 2: the location. You don't know if it's lows or home
29:01
Speaker 2: depot unless you can get the credit card information, but
29:03
Speaker 2: you just move out and move out, and then you
29:05
Speaker 2: hit a treasure trove.
29:06
Speaker 3: Bam, right, Lisa Daddio.
29:08
Speaker 12: Absolutely, Nancy. You know something that hasn't come up yet
29:11
Speaker 12: that we can't obviously discount.
29:13
Speaker 6: It's his cell phone.
29:15
Speaker 12: Oh yeah, Brian's cell phone, and we're with hitting off
29:18
Speaker 12: of towers and the forensic digital information that you can
29:23
Speaker 12: get from that cell phone, you know, the day of
29:26
Speaker 12: the days after that, are going to help you.
29:29
Speaker 2: The movement's like again that they created where here's a
29:34
Speaker 2: map of his movements on Brian Coberg and it's amazing.
29:38
Speaker 2: And they did the same thing with photos duos through
29:41
Speaker 2: ring doorbell surveillance video doorbell security cams that businesses, even
29:46
Speaker 2: bus bus video. Here is the salacious tidbit. I've kind
29:52
Speaker 2: of been putting it off, but let's just get it
29:55
Speaker 2: out there. Take a listen to our cut forty eight
29:57
Speaker 2: our friends at wb Z.
30:00
Speaker 5: December of twenty twenty two, it had become evident that
30:05
Speaker 5: mister Walsh was suspecting his wife of having an affair.
30:09
Speaker 2: His mother did hire a private investigator shortly in the
30:13
Speaker 2: four New Years that year.
30:16
Speaker 3: She told mister Walsh that she was doing that.
30:19
Speaker 2: He said she was crazy on a good girl, but
30:22
Speaker 2: go ahead and she'll be really wrong.
30:26
Speaker 1: Prosecutors then went through the timeline from when Anna Walsh
30:29
Speaker 1: was last seen, so when they say Brian first reported
30:31
Speaker 1: her missing, So.
30:32
Speaker 2: Of course he claims she's crazy, you know. Rachel Shulkey
30:38
Speaker 2: joining us from the Washington Examiner, I wanted to take
30:41
Speaker 2: a listen to our cut fifty four our friends at
30:43
Speaker 2: Boston twenty five as well.
30:45
Speaker 13: This grizzly case has made headlines all across the country.
30:48
Speaker 13: At this arraignment, Prosecutor Greg Connor's statement of the case
30:51
Speaker 13: revealed on a Walsh upset that Brian was likely facing
30:55
Speaker 13: federal prison time in another case, was prepared to leave
30:58
Speaker 13: him and moved to Washington with their three young children.
31:02
Speaker 13: Brian was the sole beneficiary of more than two million
31:05
Speaker 13: dollars worth of life insurance policies, and just before Anna disappeared,
31:09
Speaker 13: Connor said Brian suspected Anna of cheating on him.
31:13
Speaker 5: He was routinely visiting the Instagram page of one of
31:16
Speaker 5: her male friends, and on December twenty sixth, his mother,
31:21
Speaker 5: with his input and direction, obtained and hired a private
31:25
Speaker 5: investigator to surveil Anna Walsh in Washington, d C.
31:44
Speaker 1: Prime Stories with Nancy Grace.
31:51
Speaker 2: Rachel Shiloke, Washington Examiner, what can you tell us about
31:56
Speaker 2: the alleged affair?
31:58
Speaker 7: The alleged affair is really interesting because was when it
32:00
Speaker 7: first came out that this was circulating in the media.
32:03
Speaker 7: You know, there was an alleged affair. There wasn't much
32:06
Speaker 7: evidence to go off of, you know, court search warrants
32:09
Speaker 7: had been sealed, all this evidence had been sealed. But
32:11
Speaker 7: now that we have the actual trans that like not transactions,
32:16
Speaker 7: the interviews and the information, it seems to me that
32:21
Speaker 7: what they what the police founded that this man confirmed
32:24
Speaker 7: that they were in a dating relationship and had been
32:26
Speaker 7: for several months and it was growing more serious, and
32:29
Speaker 7: at one point they had traveled to Dublin, Ireland to
32:32
Speaker 7: spend Thanksgiving together, and they spent Christmas Eve together, and
32:36
Speaker 7: they were planning a belated New Year celebrations together on
32:38
Speaker 7: January fourth, and that is when Brian Wallace started calling
32:43
Speaker 7: her work in Washington, d C. Saying, my wife hasn't
32:47
Speaker 7: been seen have you heard from her? And investigators are
32:50
Speaker 7: believing that this was a cover up to stem from
32:52
Speaker 7: the fact that he had murdered her on New Year's Day.
32:56
Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall joining a psychoanalyst out of Beverly Hills,
33:01
Speaker 2: jumping off what Rachel Shilkey has just.
33:03
Speaker 3: Described, and you mentioned it earlier.
33:06
Speaker 2: Can't you just imagine Brian walch sitting at mommy's kitchen
33:13
Speaker 2: table and wherever it was Swain Scott, I think it was,
33:16
Speaker 2: you know, just gnashing his teeth and switching his tail.
33:19
Speaker 2: My wife's having an affair. Sure, he never thought, Wow,
33:22
Speaker 2: I wonder why she's not attracted to me anymore. Maybe
33:24
Speaker 2: because I committed fraud and I'm going to jail for that,
33:27
Speaker 2: for art fraud. But that said, obsessed with the possibility
33:32
Speaker 2: his wife is having an affair and.
33:35
Speaker 3: He's unloading it all to mommy and.
33:41
Speaker 2: Going just obsessively on his cell phone or his tablet,
33:46
Speaker 2: looking and who he thinks is the boyfriend's insta and
33:50
Speaker 2: all of his social trying to see if Anna, his wife,
33:55
Speaker 2: was in a.
33:55
Speaker 3: Picture, or thinking about the guy. Looking at the guy.
33:59
Speaker 2: Oh, he's not handsome, he's not buff, he's got this
34:02
Speaker 2: crappy job.
34:03
Speaker 3: Why is she interested in him?
34:04
Speaker 2: Just whatever is going on in his mind, but just
34:08
Speaker 2: obsessing on it to the point he convinces his mother
34:12
Speaker 2: to get in league. Within that mother maybe looking at
34:16
Speaker 2: accessory charges.
34:18
Speaker 3: Think about that, mommy.
34:19
Speaker 8: Well, usually when an individual finds out that their spouse
34:21
Speaker 8: or partners having an affair, their first instinct is to
34:24
Speaker 8: leave the other person, not to stalk the other person.
34:29
Speaker 2: I would be devastated just thinking about it makes me
34:31
Speaker 2: sick to my stomach.
34:32
Speaker 8: Yeah, well, I mean it makes all of us sick
34:35
Speaker 8: to our stomachs. In fact, most people who find out
34:38
Speaker 8: a partner is having an affair when they come to
34:41
Speaker 8: my office, they are so devastated they are almost psychotic.
34:46
Speaker 8: They are crying, they can't sleep, they have intrusive thoughts.
34:50
Speaker 2: It's not the three minutes of sex for Pete's sake,
34:53
Speaker 2: it's the love, the love that you would leave your
34:57
Speaker 2: wife and your children and the hull and the family
35:02
Speaker 2: and the memories for what a piece of tail.
35:07
Speaker 3: Seriously, but we have to.
35:09
Speaker 8: Be clear that that's not what we're talking about here.
35:12
Speaker 2: No, I think that Anna Walsh, if this is true
35:15
Speaker 2: about the affair, was emotionally involved with this guy. I
35:20
Speaker 2: think she had had it with Brian Walsh and his
35:22
Speaker 2: double dealing in his lies. He had threatened to kill
35:25
Speaker 2: her in the past. She had filed a police report
35:28
Speaker 2: and then later dropped the charges. Now he's cheating with
35:33
Speaker 2: the art. I mean, really, who's gonna be able to
35:37
Speaker 2: pull off an art fraud with an Andy Warhol. I
35:40
Speaker 2: think that's not going to be checked out. For Pete's sake,
35:43
Speaker 2: she had had it with him. I think that there's
35:45
Speaker 2: a very good chance she was deeply in love with
35:48
Speaker 2: this guy.
35:49
Speaker 8: And it's actually nancy. Women who are in domestic violent situations,
35:54
Speaker 8: on average, it takes them nine attempts to leave the
35:58
Speaker 8: relationship before they are finally successful, and one of the
36:02
Speaker 8: reasons is that when they try to leave the partner
36:06
Speaker 8: in this case, Brian Walsh knows that the control is slipping,
36:11
Speaker 8: and they try to put their claws, their hooks, their
36:14
Speaker 8: tentacles deeper and deeper and deeper into the victims. So
36:18
Speaker 8: when he's going online looking at Instagram, kind of cyber
36:21
Speaker 8: stalking her, it's not.
36:23
Speaker 14: Because he's so sad or he's worried about her welfare.
36:28
Speaker 14: It's that he feels betrayed and he knows that he
36:33
Speaker 14: no longer has power and dominance over her.
36:37
Speaker 6: So all of the.
36:38
Speaker 8: Stocking, all of this talking to his mom about it
36:42
Speaker 8: is an attempt to re establish the way the relationship
36:45
Speaker 8: once was.
36:47
Speaker 2: Hey, doctor Bethany, hold on before alsa thought, have you
36:52
Speaker 2: noticed every time and jump in anybody on the panel,
36:57
Speaker 2: help me out here, Rachel Shilkey, doctor Bethany, Lisa, doctor Dpree,
37:04
Speaker 2: Jessica Garth. Have you noticed that every picture of Brian Wall,
37:08
Speaker 2: she looks like he's just rolled out of bed. He
37:12
Speaker 2: always looks unkept. He's not really helping take care of
37:17
Speaker 2: the boys. They've got three boys. He's not working and
37:20
Speaker 2: bringing in money, and she's having to support everybody and
37:24
Speaker 2: travel to DC from her home every on and off
37:29
Speaker 2: all week to support them.
37:31
Speaker 3: And to top it off, he's a con. He did
37:34
Speaker 3: an art fraud for thousands of dollars.
37:39
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not like he's at home cooking a
37:42
Speaker 2: homemade beef stew or a chicken pot pie for when
37:44
Speaker 2: she gets home from work. He's doing nothing. At what
37:48
Speaker 2: point does the light switch flick and you go, you
37:52
Speaker 2: know what, even if you're not gonna help me, don't
37:56
Speaker 2: hurt me, and you're hurting me.
37:57
Speaker 3: I'm getting out of.
37:58
Speaker 9: This, you know, Nancy, this is Jessica. This case just
38:01
Speaker 9: it screams to me. You know that this was a
38:04
Speaker 9: man who had lost control over his life, and I
38:08
Speaker 9: think that what he did to his wife ultimately is
38:11
Speaker 9: him trying to reassert, you know, power and control in
38:14
Speaker 9: an ultimate way. I mean, ultimately he has you know,
38:18
Speaker 9: he's taken her life and no one else can ever
38:20
Speaker 9: have her. And while he himself has you know, he's
38:23
Speaker 9: facing criminal charges now on multiple different fronts, in that way,
38:27
Speaker 9: he will always have control over his wife.
38:29
Speaker 2: Okay, doctor Beth and a Marshall, she is totally stealing
38:33
Speaker 2: your thunder.
38:34
Speaker 3: You must be really embarrassed right now.
38:36
Speaker 8: Well, well, let me add to this. Remember he tried
38:39
Speaker 8: to con his own father, to con his own father
38:42
Speaker 8: out of aspects of the father's estate.
38:45
Speaker 3: So tell everybody about that.
38:49
Speaker 2: That's a really good point, you know, when you don't
38:52
Speaker 2: know horse, look at his track record and there he
38:54
Speaker 2: is doing the same thing again.
38:57
Speaker 3: Refresh our recollection on that. I remember that now.
39:00
Speaker 8: It only came to light because one of the father's friends,
39:03
Speaker 8: I believe, if if I recall correctly, was very aware
39:07
Speaker 8: that the father wanted nothing to do with his son,
39:09
Speaker 8: Brian Walsh. He saw his son as a loser, a
39:12
Speaker 8: con artist, felonious, and so he cut Brian completely out
39:18
Speaker 8: of his will. But what happened is that the father
39:21
Speaker 8: became increasingly ill towards the end of his life. Brian
39:25
Speaker 8: Walsh would go to the father's house and I believe
39:29
Speaker 8: he attempted to change the father's will while the father
39:33
Speaker 8: was sort of in hospice or at the end of
39:35
Speaker 8: his life, and he did it in a very strange
39:37
Speaker 8: and transparent way, where he forged the signature or something
39:41
Speaker 8: like that. So I think that what tells me about
39:45
Speaker 8: Brian Walsh is that everybody was a mark. Okay, everybody
39:49
Speaker 8: was somebody from whom he could con or get money
39:53
Speaker 8: or steal from, including his own wife. His wife was
39:57
Speaker 8: a mark too. I mean, in some ways we to
40:00
Speaker 8: say that her going to work in another state was
40:02
Speaker 8: because she was trying to get away from him, or
40:05
Speaker 8: he was kind of in his own mind timping her out.
40:07
Speaker 8: Like you say that he's always looking crumpled and like
40:10
Speaker 8: he just rolled out of bed. I mean, Brian Walsh
40:14
Speaker 8: felt that he didn't have to work, that everybody else
40:16
Speaker 8: would work for him. And remember, sociopaths, one of the
40:19
Speaker 8: defining features is they have the parasitic lifestyle. They are
40:24
Speaker 8: parasitic with the people around them. So he was a
40:27
Speaker 8: parasite with his father, He was a parasite with well,
40:30
Speaker 8: with his wife, always trying to extract things from them,
40:35
Speaker 8: working them harder and harder, while he's just sitting at
40:38
Speaker 8: his mother's dinner table, you know, chatting her up about
40:42
Speaker 8: how he feels so cheated and betrayed by the wife.
40:44
Speaker 8: You know what if he felt so cheated and betrayed,
40:48
Speaker 8: he's gone out. I know he was under you know,
40:50
Speaker 8: house arrest at this point. But he could have had
40:53
Speaker 8: a legitimate job and a career and supported his family.
40:56
Speaker 8: But that's not the way Brian Walsh rolled.
40:58
Speaker 2: And he just really drunk a chord in me. Doctor Bethany.
41:01
Speaker 2: You've met David and my husband. This is kind of
41:05
Speaker 2: guy you need to look for. You need to look
41:07
Speaker 2: for a guy that wants to do something for you,
41:11
Speaker 2: Dr Bethany. And I don't mean big things, expensive things,
41:14
Speaker 2: something that matters to you, you know, Dr Bethany, to
41:18
Speaker 2: get the children to school on time, and all the
41:20
Speaker 2: animals fed, and my grandma and my mother taking care
41:23
Speaker 2: of I get up every morning at.
41:24
Speaker 3: Least by five point thirty.
41:27
Speaker 2: Very often David will beat me up, beat me being awake,
41:33
Speaker 2: and I'll go in the kitchen and find him in
41:35
Speaker 2: there and he has already made the coffee or the
41:40
Speaker 2: dishwasher done some little thing that requires time and effort
41:47
Speaker 2: to helping.
41:49
Speaker 3: The laundry, yeah, laundry, Yeah, he does laundry.
41:53
Speaker 2: And so I don't feel that's another thing I don't do,
41:57
Speaker 2: and it's just or have to.
42:00
Speaker 3: My point is.
42:01
Speaker 2: Here, is Waltz just really a parasite, just sucking her dry.
42:07
Speaker 2: Oh and speaking of when you don't know a horse,
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Speaker 2: look at this track record. You gotta hear our cut
42:12
Speaker 2: sixty one talking about a scam.
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Speaker 3: A fraud.
42:16
Speaker 2: He's first, there's the Warhol paintings fraud. The fraud on Dad.
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Speaker 2: Now listen to our cut sixty Well this is Beyonca
42:22
Speaker 2: Bill trend at NBC Team.
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Speaker 4: Anna Walsh was last seen on New Year's Day by
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Speaker 4: a family friend who left their house at one thirty
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Speaker 4: in the morning, about three and a half hours later.
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Speaker 4: More research on the iPad about disposing of a body.
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Speaker 4: Prosecutors noted Brian Walsh would benefit financially from his wife's death.
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Speaker 5: In total, her life insurance is over two point seven
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Speaker 5: million dollars. Where the defendant was a sole beneficiary.
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Speaker 2: The defendant was his sole beneficiary. He was in liigned
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Speaker 2: to get nearly three million dollars.
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Speaker 3: If he could get rid of Anna. We wait as
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Speaker 3: just as some false goodbye night, you
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Speaker 4: M