Latest / Play Therapy Podcast: A Master-Class in Child-Centered Play Therapy / 434 | What's Wrong With Our Field? Research. (A Call for the Next Generation of CCPT Research)

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434 | What's Wrong With Our Field? Research. (A Call for the Next Generation of CCPT Research) · Play Therapy Podcast: A Master-Class in Child-Centered Play Therapy

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  You're listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.
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  Brenna Hicks,
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  your source for centered and focused play therapy coaching.
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  Hi,
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  I'm Dr.
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  Brenna Hicks,
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  The Kid Counselor.
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  This is the Play Therapy Podcast where you get
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  a master class in child-centered play therapy
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  and practical support and application for your
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  work with children and their families.
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  In today's episode,
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  we are finishing out the What's Wrong with Our Field series.
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  And for the final hurrah,
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  we are talking
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  about research.
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  And
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  there's gonna be a,
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  a call to action here,
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  uh,
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  a challenge if you will,
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  because
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  I am concerned
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  about what has gone on in our field related to research in the
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  most recent 20 or so years.
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  So,
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  I want to really
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  address this and hopefully inspire and encourage some of y'all to
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  Step up and,
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  and fill in a little bit of the gap.
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  Before we dive into that,
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  I wanna let y'all know
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  it's like a month away from Jersey,
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  y'all.
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  So,
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  if you've been thinking about coming,
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  I need you to register so that you can save money.
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  I also have a meetup planned on Sunday.
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  So,
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  for all of you podcast listeners and all of you
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  people that are within driving distance to New Jersey.
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  I want y'all to come and hang out with me on Sunday
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  for a meetup.
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  And so that is separate from the conference.
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  That is for anyone that is able to get to
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  the Jersey,
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  New York line
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  for Sunday.
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  I would love to hang out with y'all.
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  And so we'll eat and spend time together and
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  podcast meetups are one of my favorite things that I do across the country.
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  So,
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  if you are able to make it,
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  please make sure that you
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  RSVP so we know you're coming.
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  We can plan for numbers and such.
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  And you can get all of that at playtherapynow.com.
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  Just make sure you scroll down to the meetup section and to the
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  IMCCPT live section
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  for the conference registration.
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  So you can do both on playtherapynow.com.
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  All right.
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  So let's talk about research for a sec.
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  Well,
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  probably longer than a sec.
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  The whole podcast
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  for,
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  for a couple of minutes.
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  This is my
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  I don't want to say that it's like my deepest worry,
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  but
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  this is one of the things that I have
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  really been struggling with because every time I speak,
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  APT required.
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  Now,
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  obviously if it's my own event,
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  this doesn't apply,
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  but if,
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  if I'm trying to get APT approval or CEs or if I speak at an APT event.
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  They require 5 references
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  and 3 of them have to be within the last 5 years.
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  And a lot of what I teach is seminal.
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  A lot of what I teach is foundational.
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  A lot of what I teach is foundational CCPT.
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  And there is nothing
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  in the last 5 years on seminal CCPT stuff.
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  And unfortunately what has happened.
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  is we have decades and decades of research.
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  Almost all of the seminal foundational theoretical research
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  is
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  from decades ago.
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  And thankfully,
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  we do have meta-analytic research.
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  That has looked at studies across decades
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  and said,
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  here's the summary of all of this.
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  That has been useful,
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  but as far as new research
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  proving efficacy of the model,
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  diving deep into the theory of the model
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  and actually having data to support what we're doing.
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  It's a huge gap.
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  Now,
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  what
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  has been put out,
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  because it's not like there's no research on CCPT,
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  although I would argue less than directive models for sure,
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  but there is
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  Data and research coming out on CCPT,
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  but
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  standardly,
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  what we're seeing is CCPT with this population.
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  CCPT with this unique scenario,
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  CCPT with this case study,
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  CCPT with this case study,
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  CCPT with
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  this population with this background with this diagnosis with this whatever.
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  So
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  what we've done is we've taken the model
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  and we've proven that it works in this
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  rare scenario.
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  But I would argue that's not universalizable.
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  I would argue that's not generalizable.
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  And the concern is
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  we're not putting any research out that says
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  CCPT
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  works.
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  CCPT works.
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  CCPT foundationally.
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  We can prove it.
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  CCPT seminally,
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  we can prove it.
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  And
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  I think that that is doing a disservice because I
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  would argue that more people would be fired up about CCPT
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  if we had all kinds of research being published saying this is more effective.
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  This is my
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  pipe dream,
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  my white picket fence,
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  magic wish,
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  genie kind of scenario.
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  In the next couple of years,
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  I want several studies to be published,
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  new,
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  not meta-analytic,
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  new research.
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  Where they did therapists and children
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  with directive activities
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  and therapists
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  and children with non-directive activities
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  did pre and post tests for both.
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  Blind observation rating.
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  And they proved that CCPT is more effective.
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  Now,
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  let's go back to meta-analytic and you might say,
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  Brenna,
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  how could you say that?
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  Well,
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  let's go back to meta-analytic research for a second.
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  We know
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  because of the meta-analytic data,
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  we already know it's proven
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  that humanistic
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  approaches are more effective than non-humanistic.
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  So this isn't a stretch.
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  This is already supported in literature.
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  I want there to be
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  a current study.
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  Where
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  we take kids with therapists that do directive stuff,
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  and then we take kids with therapists that do CCPT.
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  And we look at outcomes.
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  We could do the CBCL for pre and post test.
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  We could do parent rating,
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  teacher rating,
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  whatever.
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  We,
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  we could figure out what assessment we would do to evaluate this.
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  But
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  If we did a pre and post test
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  to measure something specifically,
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  maybe it's externalizing behaviors,
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  maybe it's externalizing behaviors,
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  maybe it's internalizing behaviors,
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  whether
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  I,
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  I'm not sure what we would want to measure.
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  There's so many options,
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  I guess.
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  But man,
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  if we're putting that kind of research out,
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  Proving
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  currently
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  that CCPT is more effective.
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  That gives us so much.
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  Clout,
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  it gives us so much standing.
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  It gives us so much standing.
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  It gives us so much defense.
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  And you know me,
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  my phrase is quiet confidence.
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  I am not one that feels like we have to beat on people's doors
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  and get megaphones and shout for mountain tops.
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  I don't think that that's our way.
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  That's,
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  that's not CCPT aligned at all.
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  Results speak for themselves.
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  I've had way too many people
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  go from directive
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  to CCPT
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  and tell me their stories.
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  To
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  even question whether or not CCPT is more effective.
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  I,
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  I,
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  I have no doubt whatsoever.
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  Not only do research studies prove it,
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  but anecdotally and experientially
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  it has been proven.
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  I know that CCPT is more effective.
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  I don't need to
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  make a big to do about that.
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  But I think that if we have research that says,
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  look,
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  here's a comparison study.
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  We have directive stuff here,
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  we have non-directive stuff here,
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  we have non-directive stuff here,
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  non-directive stuff here,
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  non-directive works.
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  That is what elevates the field.
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  That is what takes us to the next level.
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  That's what
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  ensures that more therapists in grad school right
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  now or even thinking about starting grad school,
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  they're gonna be taught CCPT.
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  I mean,
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  I would hope so.
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  Again,
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  maybe that's my
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  both my fingers and toes crossed.
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  I don't know.
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  I would hope that that would mean
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  that CCPT would become more
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  part of the dialogue,
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  more part of the training,
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  because
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  us right now as CCPTs,
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  we know.
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  I would like the world to know and I would like the
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  world to know and I would like the systems that are in place
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  that are not supportive of CCPT.
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  I would like that to change too.
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  That's the other thing y'all.
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  If we put research out,
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  systems are gonna have to start acknowledging
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  that this is
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  appropriate.
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  So the academic system,
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  the legal system,
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  the medical system,
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  the medical system,
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  the third-party managed care system,
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  all these things that are very anti-CCPT right now,
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  we start cranking out research talking about how
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  proven effective it is.
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  They're gonna have to acquiesce.
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  So
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  I think our greatest
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  Accomplishment in the next 5 or so years
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  for our field to change what I perceive
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  to change what I perceive to be the things that are wrong
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  is to start cranking out research
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  that shows how effective CCPT is,
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  not with unique subsets and diagnosis and whatever.
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  I mean,
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  look,
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  I'm thrilled.
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  In the last few years we've actually had quite a few studies emerge
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  that CCPT is effective with ASD.
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  That's a huge boost in our arm.
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  I mean,
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  I'm thrilled
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  that we have proven now that CCPT is effective for kids on the spectrum.
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  We needed that research,
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  but
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  we don't need a whole bunch of studies
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  like,
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  oh,
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  here's one case study with
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  a child with 4 ACEs that lives in rural Montana that is biracial.
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  Like,
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  the more we
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  go all these specific things,
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  the harder it is for us to say,
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  but we know this works across the board.
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  So what I'm hoping for
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  is that from a foundational level,
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  a theoretical level,
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  we start cranking out research that says,
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  yes,
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  this is the most effective approach for children 3 to 12.
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  And we get a whole bunch of that
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  out in the world.
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  I think that changes everything.
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  So,
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  if you are someone that would like to be involved in research,
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  if you would like to,
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  if you're gonna be a PhD student soon
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  or you're thinking about doing a dissertation
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  or
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  you would just like to participate in a study and be a co-author
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  on something that gets published,
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  reach out to me.
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  We have so many studies that people have mentioned they're interested in.
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  We're actually trying to kind of aggregate
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  like a research hub
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  where we can
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  put people together.
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  In other words,
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  You know,
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  someone in Georgia says,
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  hey,
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  I'm interested in
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  conducting research,
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  but like,
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  I'm not gonna write the article.
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  And then someone else says,
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  hey,
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  I can't conduct the research,
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  but I'd be happy to write and submit to IJPT.
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  So what we're gonna try to do is kind of put pieces together
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  where people can sync up and say,
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  oh,
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  I'm interested in that research as well.
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  And then,
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  you know,
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  we actually kind of have like a
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  clearing house,
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  if you will,
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  for all things related to CCPT research.
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  So reach out to me,
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  you know,
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  at the very least,
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  we'll add you to the list as we get this going and we'll keep you updated.
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  But
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  I think this is what our field needs
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  deeply and greatly
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  is people to start saying,
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  you know what,
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  I want to contribute to the literature
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  on how effective CCPT is.
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  So hopefully,
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  that's some of you.
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  With an audience this size,
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  it has to be some of you.
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  I'm believing it.
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  All right,
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  I love y'all.
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  Thanks for hanging out with me.
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  We'll talk again soon.
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  Bye.
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  Thank you for listening to the Play Therapy Podcast with Dr.
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  Brenna Hicks.
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  For more episodes and resources,
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  please go to www.playtherapypodcast.com.