Latest / Voddie Baucham Sermons / Voddie Baucham - TS&TT Voddie Baucham Regenerate Church Membership & Sexual Abuse in the SBC #ChangeTheDirection

Transcript

Voddie Baucham - TS&TT Voddie Baucham Regenerate Church Membership & Sexual Abuse in the SBC #ChangeTheDirection · Voddie Baucham Sermons

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Sword in the Trowel podcast. The Sword
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: in the Trowel is a ministry of Founders Ministries, and
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Founders exists for the recovery of the gospel and the
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: reformation of local churches. I'm Tom Askell.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: And I'm Graham Gundon.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Glad to have you with us today as we look
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: forward to having a wonderful conversation with our dear friend
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: and brother, Vody Baucom, coming to us all the way
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: from Lusaka, Zambia. So, Vody, welcome to the Sword in
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: the Trowel.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: Hey, thank you, brothers. I'm glad to be with you again.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: I always look forward to our time together.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Always.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, I do too. This is great.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: Of course, it's best in studio. It takes too long
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: because we cut up so much. So I'll take this.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, these podcasts would be two hours long if we
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: didn't have so much fun beforehand. So yeah, that's true.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: We've got some things coming up. Graham, just quickly before
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: we jump into the conversation, tell us what's going on.
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so we have a promotion going through to the
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: end of this month, the end of May. And that
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: is for those who want to join in support of
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: Founders Ministries as a FAM member, a Founders Alliance member.
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: For anyone who joins at the Shield, Sword, or Ally level,
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: which are different levels of support, You can find that
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: on our website. For anyone who joins at one of
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: those levels, you get a free signed book by either Dr.
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: Askell or Dr.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Botham.
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: And so it's a great opportunity to be able to
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  Speaker 4: get some good books and get some signatures there. Also,
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: the conference rates go up for our conference coming up
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: in January at the end of the month as well.
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  Speaker 2: January 1st, rates are going up.
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  Speaker 4: So if you plan on coming down to Southwest Florida,
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: palm trees, sun, all the good stuff in the middle
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: of January, be sure to register before the end of.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the theme is what is man, and we'll also
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: just be able to tell you what a woman is
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: as well. So, you know, if you've been in the
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: dark about that, we're going to address those issues. Votie
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: will be there. I'll be there. Joel Beek will be there.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: We look forward to having you.
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  Speaker 4: Which one of you is a biologist?
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  Speaker 1: Hey, Votie, can you take a few biology courses between
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  Speaker 1: now and then so we can address what a woman is?
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  Speaker 2: We'll work on it. Yeah, we'll work on it. We'll
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: get some credits.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Well, most of you will know, and if you don't,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: we want to inform those of you who have not
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: heard that Votie Bauckham, is going to be nominated for
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  Speaker 1: the presidency of the Southern Baptist Convention.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Not me.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: No, it's me. My bad. Sorry about that. I just
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: get calls all the time here. Let me make sure
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: that doesn't happen again. For the Southern Baptist Convention's Pastors Conference,
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  Speaker 1: and that's going to happen on June the 13th in Anaheim, California.
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  Speaker 1: And then I'm going to be nominated for the presidency
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: of the Southern Baptist Convention. That vote will take place
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  Speaker 1: June 14th, also in Anaheim. And Votie and I will
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: be together out in Anaheim on June the 12th, where
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  Speaker 1: there is a conference that the Conservative Baptist Network is hosting,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: where John MacArthur, Votie, myself, and Javier Chavez will be speaking.
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  Speaker 1: Javier is going to be nominated for the recording secretary position.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: of the Southern Baptist Convention. That will also take place
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  Speaker 1: on June the 14th during the convention. Now, some of
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: you may not know Javier, but he's a brother I've
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  Speaker 1: gotten to know the last couple of years. And what
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: a wonderful man he is. This guy's got political experience
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: in Peru. He worked in the Peruvian government. He is
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  Speaker 1: a church planter in Georgia. I mean, he's like a
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  Speaker 1: church planter on steroids. He's like the Energizer Bunny. When
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  Speaker 1: I'm around him, I always feel like a sluggard, you know,
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  Speaker 1: because of everything that he's doing. And he's just a
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  Speaker 1: godly man. Great family. I've gotten to know his son
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  Speaker 1: who's in college that has some aspirations for being a
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  Speaker 1: pastor as well and really have hit it off with Josh.
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  Speaker 1: So I'm delighted for Javier. I look forward to voting
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  Speaker 1: for him for the recording secretary. One of the things
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: people don't know about that position, recording secretary, is it
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  Speaker 1: also provides a seat on the executive council and not
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  Speaker 1: the executive committee. And so it's a pretty important opportunity.
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  Speaker 1: So Votie and I and Javier will be there on
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  Speaker 1: Sunday night, and you can register for this. I think
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: there's a minimal cost to it, but we'll put a
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  Speaker 1: link in the show notes so you can get information
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  Speaker 1: about that. So, Votie, people continue to ask me, oh, man,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: you know, how did you and Votie get into this?
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  Speaker 1: And you and Votie and Javier are all kind of
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  Speaker 1: putting yourself out there, willing to be nominated. Why and
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  Speaker 1: what do you hope to do? So you probably don't
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  Speaker 1: get that question as often. over in Lusaka as I'm
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: getting it here in the States. But help me with
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  Speaker 1: some answers, man.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just doing it because you told me to.
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  Speaker 3: I like it.
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  Speaker 1: I like it. Hey, look, if you're going to do
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  Speaker 1: everything I tell you to, I got a list.
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  Speaker 2: I got a list. Oh, no.
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  Speaker 3: You know, in all seriousness, I think, you know, both
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  Speaker 3: of us are in the same position of Loving the
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  Speaker 3: convention and desiring the best for the convention and really
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  Speaker 3: being worried about what we've seen lately in the convention.
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  Speaker 3: I think the SBC is in trouble. I really do.
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  Speaker 3: I don't think people realize how bad things have gotten
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  Speaker 3: over the last few years. I don't think people realize
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  Speaker 3: the magnitude of the unfaithfulness of that we've seen over
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  Speaker 3: the last few years. And then, you know, I've been
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  Speaker 3: learning more about things happening even behind the scenes over
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  Speaker 3: the last few years that a lot of people are
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  Speaker 3: just not aware of. And these are not small issues.
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  Speaker 3: These are major issues that are having a ripple effect
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  Speaker 3: and will continue to have a ripple effect. So it's
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  Speaker 3: really important to, I mean, to change the direction, you know,
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  Speaker 3: as we've said, So for me, this is not necessarily
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  Speaker 3: something I don't need to add another thing to my plate.
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  Speaker 3: And I know you don't need to add another thing
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  Speaker 3: to your plate. But, you know, there are times when
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  Speaker 3: it's not enough to just talk about how bad things are.
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  Speaker 3: You have to be willing to stand up and be
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  Speaker 3: counted and to do whatever you can to.
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  Speaker 2: Make it better.
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  Speaker 3: And so for me, this is an opportunity for me
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  Speaker 3: to do precisely that. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Amen. And that's you've hit it. exactly the way I'd
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: want to say it too. And, you know, we're recording
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  Speaker 1: this just a few hours after the sex abuse task
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  Speaker 1: force report has been made public. And I've gotten texts
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: and phone calls, people asking me, what do you think?
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  Speaker 1: What are you going to say? And I haven't read
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  Speaker 1: all of it. I've read maybe 140 pages or so
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  Speaker 1: fairly carefully. And I haven't gotten to all the proposals
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  Speaker 1: and recommendations. There are some things in there. I didn't
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  Speaker 1: know that that are heartbreaking. I mean, and, a lot
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  Speaker 1: of things I knew already, which are still heartbreaking. It's,
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  Speaker 1: it's tragic to see how poorly at so many levels
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  Speaker 1: we have handled things in our churches and in our
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  Speaker 1: denominational structure, uh, sex abuse being the key item that
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  Speaker 1: this task force was commissioned to investigate. And we, we
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  Speaker 1: need to do what the word of God calls us
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  Speaker 1: to do. I think one of the dangers that I
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  Speaker 1: see in the SBC right now, Vody is that, um,
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  Speaker 1: People have almost a utopian vision. They want everything to
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  Speaker 1: work in such a way that no bad things ever happen.
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  Speaker 1: Of course, that's not going to happen. That can't happen
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  Speaker 1: in the best family. That can't happen in the best man.
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  Speaker 1: That can't happen in the best church, the best state.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, it's just we live in a broken world.
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  Speaker 1: But where sin manifests itself in all of these horrific
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  Speaker 1: ways even, we have a Savior, and we have the
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  Speaker 1: Word of God to instruct us And I think what's
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  Speaker 1: thrown some people off is, okay, but we say we
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  Speaker 1: have this word. We all claim to be inerrantists. And
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  Speaker 1: look at all this rot that exists. So obviously the
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  Speaker 1: Bible's not enough. And that's not true. It's not that
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  Speaker 1: the Bible's been tried and proven not sufficient. It's that
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  Speaker 1: the Bible really hasn't been followed. And that's where I
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  Speaker 1: think our issues are, that we've got to come face
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  Speaker 1: to face with the reality that we have rebelled against God.
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  Speaker 1: We are not what we claim to be. We must
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  Speaker 1: humble ourselves, confess our sins, and look to God for
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  Speaker 1: mercy and pray that he'll show us that and commit
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  Speaker 1: ourselves to doing what the word says, regardless of cost
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  Speaker 1: or consequences.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, Voda, you talk about the lack of faithfulness, the
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  Speaker 4: faithlessness in so many of our churches. And I think
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  Speaker 4: this is one of the driving forces behind what's going
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  Speaker 4: on today. We know what things should be. We have almost,
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  Speaker 4: like you said, this utopian vision of what things should
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  Speaker 4: be like. things are not that way. And so we think, okay,
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  Speaker 4: what do I do to manage the situation so that
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  Speaker 4: things can be the way that I know that they
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  Speaker 4: should be? And so what you end up doing is
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  Speaker 4: you end up trusting in yourself, trusting in your own
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  Speaker 4: processes or processes the world has given you rather than
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  Speaker 4: trusting in the process that the word has laid out
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  Speaker 4: for us.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: The Lord has, the Lord has given us means by
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  Speaker 4: which we are to operate in the church. And I
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  Speaker 4: think so many churches are just not trusting those means
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  Speaker 4: that the Lord has given.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I think that's a good way to put that. And, um,
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  Speaker 1: In the SBC, we have an opportunity. I don't think
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  Speaker 1: it's a guarantee that we will seize it the way
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  Speaker 1: we should. I hope we will. I'm praying that we will.
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  Speaker 1: But we have an opportunity to humble ourselves, to come
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  Speaker 1: to terms with these realities that this report and other things.
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  Speaker 1: It's not just the report. I mean, we've been talking
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  Speaker 1: about problems for years in the SBC. And so this
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  Speaker 1: sex abuse task report is part of that. It's kind
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: of highlighting a very horrific element that. But this is
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  Speaker 1: all a part of a bigger problem of how we
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  Speaker 1: have tried to live and manage our relationships in the
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: convention of churches contrary to the Word of God. One
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  Speaker 1: of the things, Votie, that makes this complicated, and again,
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  Speaker 1: I'll talk about the Sex Abuse Task Force report after
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: I've read it, so I'll make a statement on that.
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  Speaker 1: People want me to do that, and I'll be glad
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: to do it. One of the things that complicates this
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  Speaker 1: when talking to our Presbyterian friends, our Methodist friends, is
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: they say, well, man, the Southern Baptist Church ought to
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: do this or that. And there is no Southern Baptist Church.
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  Speaker 1: We're a convention of churches. We're an association of churches.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: And that polity, that's different than a top-down structure policy.
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  Speaker 1: And that creates some challenges. I mean, you've been a
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Baptist all your life as a Christian. So talk about
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: that a little bit. How do we navigate those associational connections?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really interesting to hear people talk about this
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  Speaker 3: issue in terms of, you know, church government, as though
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  Speaker 3: what we need to do in order to fix this
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: is to move toward either from the congregational polity to
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  Speaker 3: a Presbyterian, you know, polity. or to an Episcopal polity.
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  Speaker 3: But the fact of the matter is, if you look
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: at the epitome of each of those different polities, you
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: find the same problem.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: And in many instances, it's worse.
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  Speaker 3: So if you look at the ultimate top-down expression, which
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: is Rome, right, the Roman Catholic Church, well, they've had
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: horrible issues with sex abuse with that kind of hierarchical
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: top-down structure. So we're at the opposite end of the
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: spectrum with a convention of confessing free churches. And, you know,
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: in either instance, people are trying to look to the
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: structure as being the problem and therefore another structure as
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: being the solution when the fact of the matter is
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: this is not a structural issue.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: This is a sin issue.
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  Speaker 3: And regardless of the structure that we have, this sin
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: is there, this sin is real. And so our response
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: to this cannot be to try to find another structural
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: solution that violates our theological convictions. And so I'm all for,
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: let's look at this, let's find out what's broken and
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: deal with what's broken. But the problem for me is
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  Speaker 3: that in many instances, people are either assuming that there's
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  Speaker 3: a type of polity in the SBC that doesn't exist
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: in the SBC. Ergo, why aren't the people at the
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: top of the convention doing the things that they need
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  Speaker 3: to do to fix this? Or they're assuming that the
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: fact that we don't have that kind of polity is
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: the problem. And so we need to move in the
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: direction of another kind of polity, which also has this
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: problem and in fact has had it worse.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. And if we get on that road
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: and stay on that road, it never ends because we'll
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: always be looking for that next silver bullet. Oh, well,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: this time we'll get it right. This time it'll be better.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: And the issue is sin. The answer is the gospel.
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  Speaker 1: We have the Bible. God's given us his word. And
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: if we will take his word seriously in our local churches,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: then we'll be equipped, as 2 Timothy 3, 16 and
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: 17 says, for every good work. The man of God
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: will be thoroughly equipped for every good work, including dealing
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: with sin and helping the church lead well in that area.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: And we've seen that. I mean, you know, we can
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: get beyond the report itself, but you've been a pastor.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, we're pastors, and we've had to deal with
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: some horrible tragedies in our churches. I mean, it's inevitable.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: We live east of Eden. There's no way around it.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: And I've said this from day one since I've been
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: pastor at this church, 36 years. I remember I preached
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: an 18-sermon series on sin in the church. about a
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: year after I got here, because, I mean, every time
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: something would happen and there was a lot going on
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: here when I got here, people thought, oh, this is
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: going to blow us apart. This is horrible. And the
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: thesis of that 18-sermon series was this. As long as
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: I'm your pastor, we're going to have problems in this church.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: And the point I was trying to make is, look,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: sin is inevitable. And sin is not what wrecks a church.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: It's how the church deals with sin. If we deal
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: with sin the way that we've been told to deal
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: with it, then by God's grace, we will find everything
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: we need to keep moving forward as sinful people who
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: live in forgiveness, who are born of God's spirit, who
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: are growing in grace, and who understand the commandments of
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: God enough to delight in them, to love them, and
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: to seek to implement them both personally and corporately. I
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: think that's what we've got to recover. It's basic. It's
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: not complicated. It's just really hard. And we're going to
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: have to humble ourselves.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it is.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: And especially, we also have to be really careful because....
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: Beyond this issue of polity, there are other issues at
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: play as well. And so there are a lot of
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: people who are coming at this and basically saying the
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: problem is not necessarily our polity, but the problem is,
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: you know, our position on women. And if we had
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: more women in positions of authority, then that would mitigate
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: this problem. And if you believe that, then I would
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: ask you to merely look at the government education system,
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: which is overwhelmingly female at every level and has far
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: more sexual abuse than anything the Southern Baptist Convention has
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: ever seen. It is far more, you know, egalitarian. It
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: does not hold to our positions on leadership, on male leadership.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: And it is a far less comfortable place, far less
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: safe place for women and for children than the Southern
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: Baptist Convention has been.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: And so, again, I think, are there issues? Yes, there are.
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: But what we can't do is come at this and say,
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: now we have to make theological decisions, you know, apart
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: from our theological convictions, because somehow that is what's going
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: to solve our problems.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: And it absolutely won't.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: That's an excellent point. You know, I remember two years ago,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: three years ago, something like that, the U.S. Education Department
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: put out or they commissioned a study about sex abuse
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: in public education systems in the United States. And they
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: determined that one out of 10 students that started with
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: like pre-K or first grade all the way through grade 12,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: one out of 10 would have some kind of improper
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: sexual conduct or sex abuse committed against them. One out
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: of 10.
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: By a teacher or administrator, not even counting other students.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah. This is by those employed through the
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: public system. And I remember having this conversation with a
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: guy who's an SBC exec now, and he was adamant.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: He was, it's worse than Southern Baptist churches in the
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: public education system. I said, what are you talking about?
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: He made that argument. And he talked me down. He said, no,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Lifeway issued a study. This is right before last year's convention.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: And I said, where is it? So he's telling me
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: about it. So I go look it up. And, of course,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: he told me that one out of four women in
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Southern Baptist churches are being abused. This is a guy
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: who's in a high-level position today. And I said, well,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: I'm going to have to go read it. Well, I
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: went and read the report. That's not what it says
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: at all. The women who were surveyed in the report,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: they were asked one of the questions was, do you
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: think that this problem is more widespread than we know?
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: One out of four said, yes, we think it's more widespread,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: but he's going around telling people that what's going on
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: in Southern Baptist churches is worse than the public education system. So,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, again, that's just a matter of truth and understanding.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: We got to know what the realities are before we
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: can address them as we ought. And your point about
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: the egalitarianism in the public education system is a brilliant
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: point because that's another thing I'm afraid people are going
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: to try to do. You need this solution that's contrary
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: to the Word of God, but things are so bad,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: you had the Word of God and it didn't work.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: You got to try what we're now suggesting. And brothers
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: and sisters, we can't do that. We need to admit
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: where we failed the Word of God, where we have
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: sinned against God and His clear revelation, but we must
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: never let ourselves jettison the Word of God because of
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: our failures in seeking to live up to it.
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and this brings up another issue, I think, within
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: just broad evangelicalism. I think we see it in the culture,
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: but in broad evangelicalism as well, in that sometimes we
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: behave as though men are sinful human beings and women
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: really not so much so. And so we tend to
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: minimize the sin of women. The sins of women are
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: kind of lesser sins. The sins of men, those are
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: the real serious sins that are driving the church into destruction.
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: And I don't want to minimize the sin of men,
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: and this is not victim blaming or anything, but we
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: need to get serious about the sin in all of
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: the members of our church. The sin of women can
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: be just as destructive to families, to churches, to our
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: nation as the sin of men.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we need equal weights and measures. And I think
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: one place where this is playing out right now, Bodie,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: is in the whole debate over here about abortion and
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: how we ought to treat pre-born children. the ERLC, Ethics
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: and Religious Liberty Commission, signed on with over 75 pro-life
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: groups a couple of weeks ago to speak to state
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: legislatures throughout the United States, including Louisiana, that had a
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: bill that was coming out of committee to recognize the
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: personhood of a pre-born child and to call for the
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: equal protection under the law of pre-born children And the
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: ERLC and others signed an open letter that just canceled it,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: that said, no, no, no, we can't do that. You
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: cannot hold women accountable for abortion. Women are not culpable
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: for abortions. They're victims. And now we're being told that's
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: always been the pro-life position. Well, if so, I'm sorry.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: speaking for many, I know, because I've had the conversations.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: I've been pro-life a long time, and I've been deceived
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: because I thought pro-life was really wanting to end abortion.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: And if that's not what pro-life is, then I need
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: another name. Because what I saw happen two weeks ago
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: with that open letter was shameful. And they've doubled down
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: on it. When they've been called on it, they've doubled
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: down on it. And again, it comes back to, are
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: we going to use equal weights and measures? Are we
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: going to say what the Bible says is right, wrong, just, unjust?
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Or are we going to listen to the cultural winds
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: and what they're telling us that we ought to employ
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: for those categories?
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: And this goes back to a conversation that we've had
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: on a number of occasions, which is this entire idea
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: of intersectionality, right? And this is about you know, women
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: being considered a victim class. That's where this is coming from.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: And standpoint epistemology, you know, all these things that we've
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: been talking about for a long time are continuing to
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: manifest themselves. And I mean, I've said it before and
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: I've said it again, according to social justice ideology, abortion
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: is not the justice issue. Access to abortion is the
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: justice issue. That's been the position for a long time.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: And it's because of this intersectional understanding. And so, you know,
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: it may seem like we're going, you know, far afield
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: here for what we're talking about with this abuse issue.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: But we're talking about the same thing from an ideological
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: perspective when it comes to the way that we frame
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: the issues and the way that we discuss the issues.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Amen. You're exactly right. And so, you know, I mean,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: here we are on the brink. a couple of weeks
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: away from the Southern Baptist Convention meeting in Anaheim, where
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: you'll be nominated to be president of the Pastors Conference.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: I'll be nominated to be president of the convention. And
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: people are asking, okay, what would you guys do? I mean,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: what would you guys do? So if God were to
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: put you in that position where you got to plan
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: the Pastors Conference next year that's scheduled to meet in
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: 2023 in New Orleans, what would you do as president
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: of the Southern Baptist Convention Pastors Conference?
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a couple of things. Number one, God has
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: put me in a very unique position in that, you know,
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: I'm living abroad, been serving abroad for seven years, have this,
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: you know, this broader picture of really Baptist work in
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: the world. And I would really like to bring that
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: flavor to the pastors conference. There's some great guys out there. that,
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: you know, like my, you know, my co-laborer Conrad Mbewe,
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: you know, who are just wonderful Baptist voices, you know,
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: out there around the world. So I'd love to see
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: a mix of, you know, some of the best people
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: that we have, you know, within the SBC, within the U.S.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: and other people, perhaps, you know, Southern Baptist, you know,
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: serving abroad. So that kind of flavor and also to
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: do something in the realm of systematic exposition, perhaps exposition
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: through an entire book or exposition through a significant portion
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: and segment of scripture, but really highlight exposition. And to
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: highlight exposition that deals with some of these issues that
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: we're dealing with. So for example, exposition through the book
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: of Titus, where we preach through the entire book of
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: Titus and get the hit on a lot of these
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: issues that we're dealing with, but hit on them from
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: the perspective and standpoint of systematic exposition with some of
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: the best expositors around.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I think that would be incredibly valuable
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: because what it would do, it was unleash the word
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: of God that is authoritative and sufficient. And then it
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: would model how to do that because pastors, we need encouragement,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean? I don't know. Every once
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: in a while, the devil whispers in your ear, this
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: really isn't working. This is too important. You need to
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: do something different. And to have the Word of God
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: preached powerfully, simply, systematically under the Spirit's anointing, that could
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: be profound.
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: And just think of the effects that could have. We
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: want to see reformation within the Southern Baptist Convention, to
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: have thousands of SBC pastors all gathered together not only
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: to have the pastoral epistles preached to them, but like
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: you said, to see that modeled and to be able
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: to take that back to their churches, I think could
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: be as big as anything else we would see in
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: the convention as far as Reformation goes.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Amen. Yeah, man, that makes me want to vote for you.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: I might do that. Yeah, I mean, I think.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Having a Southern Baptist missionary lead the pastor's conference, a
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Southern Baptist missionary pastor lead the pastor's conference just makes
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: perfect sense to me. I don't think it's ever been done. And, man,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: it would be a great change of direction to have
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: that done this year. And then with all the challenges
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: we've got in the SBC, I had people ask me this.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: I get this question all the time now. I've been
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: traveling the last week and preaching different places, and people
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: regularly coming up to me, why are you doing this?
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Why are you doing this? And what you said a
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: while ago, Bodie, I just resonate with it. Well, I
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: didn't wake up one morning and say, you know, my
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: life is so boring. I need something else to do.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: What can I do to spice it up? It wasn't that.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: It was being prevailed upon and being convinced, okay, by
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: good counsel, I trust that this is where God would
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: lead me. And if God puts me in that position,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: which I don't know if he will or not, people
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: ask me too, what's your sense? Do you have a
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: read on how the vote's going to go? I don't
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: have a clue. I live in an echo chamber, you know,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: so I don't know. I mean, God knows and I'm
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: content to leave it with him.
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: Maybe we can commission a Rasmussen poll or something.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. But I just... If God puts me
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: in that position, I'm not going to say anything different
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: than I've been saying for years, because I see these
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: things fairly clearly about the nature of the church, the
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: nature of the gospel, the nature of Christianity. And I
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: don't think we can assume on those things anymore. We
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: cannot presume that we all understand the gospel. We all
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: understand what a Christian is, how you become one, or
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: we all understand what a church is and how churches operate.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: And if we can just come back to the basics,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: that'd be helpful.
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: You know, and one of the things to circle back
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: to what we were talking about earlier, Tom, One of
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: the things that I love about the prospect of you
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: being in that position, president of the SPC, is that
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: for years and years, you have been beating the drum
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: of regenerate church membership, which includes the proper exercise of
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: church discipline. And I don't think we need to, you know,
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: hasten to run by that issue right now, because not
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: all of, but much of what we're dealing with, with
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: this report that just came out and much of what
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: we're dealing with, with the sex abuse issues in these
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: churches is a lack of a proper understanding and application
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: of church discipline. People not dealing with sin the way
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: we're supposed to deal with sin and people allowing for example,
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: you know, staff members to just move off quietly, you know,
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: without them being disciplined, without them being excommunicated, and without
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: communicating that to the next church that's coming. I know
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: our church, you know, that we planted, dealt with this,
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: and I know your church has dealt with this, where
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: somebody comes to your church and issue arises. And all
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: of a sudden, when the issue arises and you have
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: to deal with discipline with someone, Now the other church
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: that they came from wants to say, oh, well, yeah,
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: we kind of dealt with that before. But they didn't
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: discipline them and they didn't tell you so that you
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: could point them back to go and deal with a
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: disciplinary issue. So I think this goes back to things
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: that you and others, including myself, have been screaming from
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: the rooftops for many, many years in the SBC. Discipline
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: needs to take place. It needs to be biblical. We
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: need to be serious about it. And that needs to
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: be part of our response.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Amen. And you're exactly right on that. And that's both
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: formative and corrective. You and I, and Graham, we know
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: what we mean by those terms that a lot of
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: people want. So who do you let into your church?
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Not anybody that can waddle down an aisle, you know,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: as a two-year-old. I mean, you have a regenerative church
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: membership for a reason that you want to help ensure
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: that those who join your church are actually professing Christ
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: and living for Christ. We're not infallible. in making those judgments,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: but we have to make those judgments to the best
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: of our ability, according to the word of God. And
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: so when you have that, people join your church and
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: they are in agreement to live a certain way. And
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: when they fail to live that way, you correct them.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: If they fail to be corrected, you remove them as
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: the Bible clearly teaches to do. But it's hard. And
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: one of the things I have seen in the little
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: bit I've read of this report is cases where like
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: a minister has been guilty of horrific crime of abusing
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: minor children, And they just dismiss him quietly. And he
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: goes down to another church. I mean, that's wicked. And
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: you don't do that if you have the kind of
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: church you just described, practicing what the Bible teaches us
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: to be as Christians and churches. So yeah, you're right.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: There's nothing in terms of the message and the goals,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: what we ought to be aspiring toward. There's nothing new.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: This God's given us his word. It's true. It hasn't changed.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: We just need to do better in trying to understand
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: it and apply it humbly, taking him in his word.
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and just a clarification as well. When it comes
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: to issues like the one you just mentioned and discipline
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: needs to take place, discipline takes place within the church,
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: and the church is the one who exercises the keys
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: of the kingdom. It's not submitting a name to a
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: committee somewhere that's not a part of your congregation. That
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: can be fine to do, but it's the church itself
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: which exercises discipline.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: That's right. And so this whole credentials committee, which, you know,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: I've got some ideas. I mean, the credentials committee, bless
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: their heart, they've been given tasks that they cannot handle
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: because they don't have the tools to handle it. But
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: I've got some ideas based upon Baptist ecclesiology, Baptist history,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: the Philadelphia Association. You know, we're not the first people
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: to have to deal with these problems. Baptist historians have
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: dealt with them. There have been such a thing as
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: ecclesiastical courts. in Baptist associations, and we need to revive that.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: We need to look at that and figure out how
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: do we do this and consistent with our polity. But
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: on the SBC level, it's not report this person, it's
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: report this church. Because churches are autonomous, associations are autonomous,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: the SBC is autonomous. So if a church is going
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: to harbor any kind of open, unrepentant sinner, any kind,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: then that church is not going to be in friendly
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: cooperation with who we say we are, as a convention
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: of churches. And so a church can be removed. We say, look,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: you're not part of us. We're not telling you that
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: you can't do this. We're telling you you can't do
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: this and be a part of us because that's not
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: who we are.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: And think about the precedent that we've set by being
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: unwilling to do that. The SBC has been unwilling to
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: disfellowship churches. We've been unwilling to stand on principle, to
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: stand on scripture, to stand on our confession and disfellowship churches. Now,
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: all of a sudden, you know, this report comes out
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: and we want to start doing what we were unwilling
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: to do before because now we have a hierarchy of sins.
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, these issues are not new. These
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: are issues that have been raised before and that have
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: been rejected by the SBC. Mm-hmm.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: That's exactly right. If we were doing what God's called
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: us to do in our churches, and everybody says, you know,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: local churches, headquarters, and the SBC. Well, that's true. But
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: it's time for headquarters to get on their knees before
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: God and say, oh, God, we have not been living
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: as you called us to live as a church. Will
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: you forgive us and will you help us now to
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: take seriously your word, regardless of cost or consequence, and
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: living the way the church is supposed to live? If
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: we do that, then whatever the issues are, whatever the
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: sin is, whatever the crime is, The church will already
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: be pre-committed to dealing with it the way the Lord
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: of the church, Jesus Christ, says it's to be dealt with.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: And this is one of the things we've got to
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: remind ourselves of regularly, too, is that we don't have
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: to be ashamed, embarrassed, or afraid of whatever we find
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: as we deal honestly with our own lives as Christians
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: or churches.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: Because we have a Savior. Jesus Christ has died for
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: our sins. There's no condemnation for those who are in
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Christ Jesus. Now, we can be full of sorrow. We
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: ought to lament every sin, and especially where we see
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: sin has gone rampant and undealt with. But we don't
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: have to say, oh, we can't admit this. If we
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: admit this, then it's going to destroy us. No, we're
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: not living by performance. We're living by Christ. We're living
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: by grace. And we have grace in Christ that sets
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: us free to look and say, okay, where is it?
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Is there sin among us? If so, let's deal with
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: it because we have a Savior. He shed his blood
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: for sinners. And it's just like a denial of the gospel.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: if we fail to live this way.
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and we have nine marks of a healthy church,
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: which I'm grateful for that. But preceding that, we had
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: three marks of a true church, which was the right
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: preaching of the Word of God, the correct administration of
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: the sacraments, and the correct exercises of church discipline.
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: And we.
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: When we don't have any understanding and we don't exercise
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: church discipline, what are we doing? We're saying that mark
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: of a true church is not important. And how can
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: we be in fellowship with churches who don't agree with
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: that statement or don't agree with those three marks?
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you'll get a kick out of it.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: The good news. Oh, I'm sorry.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Go ahead, man.
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: No, I was going to say the good news is that,
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: you know, these issues that have been brought up before
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: are now coming to the fore. you know, this issue
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: of regenerate church membership, this issue of, you know, practicing
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: church discipline, this issue of, you know, disfellowshipping churches, you know,
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: these issues that we've talked about before, that we brought
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: up before, you know, and then had people sort of
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: thumb their nose at, perhaps this report will lead us
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: to a place where we can address this again and
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: maybe come to some different conclusions about it without going
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: to those excesses that we mentioned earlier.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Amen. And it needs to be led by pastors
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: and churches who have been doing it, you know, pastors
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: and churches that aren't just Johnny come lately and saying, okay,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: you know, now we got to start doing the Bible. No,
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: we've got faithful pastors and churches throughout the SBC who
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: have been doing this quietly in their own locales, trying
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: to honor Christ. And that's how we ought to be led.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: We ought to be led by those kinds of churches,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: those kinds of, pastors and members in those churches. I
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: was going to say earlier, you know, talking about the
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: marks of the church, there's a reporter that's not, hadn't
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: been honest with me. And so I don't talk to
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: him anymore. And he's upset the fact that I won't
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: talk to him. He's always trying to get me to
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: talk to him. He put something up on social media
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: the other day about, you know, I remember Tom Askell
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: has always been mad since I knew about him and
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: covering the convention while he was talking about regenerate church
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: membership years ago. And he even said this, that when
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: John Dagg said that when Discipline leaves the church. Christ
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: goes with it. I mean, it's like, can you believe this?
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: And everybody's, ha-ha. Yeah, man, throw me in the briar patch.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: Guess what?
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: Had we listened back in 2008, maybe we might be
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: in a little different situation.
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: Well, when the authority that Christ has given the church
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: leaves the church, the authority of Christ leaves with that church.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Exactly. I mean, it's a frightening prospect. When you
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: read Revelation 2 and 3, how can we think we're
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: above that? Jesus threatens us. I'll unchurch you. I'll unchurch you.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: You'll continue on, but you won't be a church of Christ.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: And if that could happen, then, man, that ought to
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: make us shudder, weep, repent, and seek him for forgiveness
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: and for grace to live according to what he's clearly
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: revealed a church ought to be.
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: Brother, I can't tell you how excited I am, really,
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: about the prospect of a president of the SBC who's
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: not a climber, And I love how people try to
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: use that against you, right? You haven't held a lot
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: of positions in the SBC. You know, you're not a climber.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: You're a pastor who loves the local church. You're not
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: coming up with gimmicks, you know? You know, vote for
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: Tom Askell because, you know, here's this gimmick that we're
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: going to do to try to, it's not about that.
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: This is about recovering, recovering the gospel, right? This is
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: about recovering our commitment our confessional commitments. This is about
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: recovering standards. This is about going back to things we've
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: been talking about for a long time. Nothing new under
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: the sun, right? You know, this is like, you know,
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: if you want to put it in sports terms, you know,
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: this is like a basketball team that says we're going
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: to win the championship, you know, by playing good defense
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: and practicing good fundamentals, you know? And so I am,
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: I'm very excited about this conversation and about what this
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: conversation represents. Because we do need to get back to
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: basics and back to fundamentals. And we don't need any
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: more gimmicks.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Amen.
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: Amen.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Well, the Lord will do what is right in his eyes.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: And we need to be faithful in trying to discharge
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: the stewardship he's entrusted to us. And we encourage everybody
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: to do that. Just pray that the Lord will help
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: us to do that as we move through these uncertain days. Vody,
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us, brother. Love you.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Thank God for you and Bridget and your family and
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: the ministry there. We pray for you regularly. And we're
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: grateful for what you do.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: Thank you, brother. Yeah, it's been my pleasure.
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us on The Sword in the Trout.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: We look forward to having a conversation again with you
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: in a few weeks.