Latest / Paws Between Us - Pet Stories, Welfare and Building A Bond / Roni the Guide Dog: Inside a Remarkable Partnership

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Roni the Guide Dog: Inside a Remarkable Partnership · Paws Between Us - Pet Stories, Welfare and Building A Bond

• 0:00
  Welcome to the Paws Between Us podcast, co-hosted by our best friends Natalie and Sasha.
• 0:05
  We're lifelong animal lovers and proud pet parents.
• 0:07
  Between us, we share our lives with cats Murray and Weaver and Betty the pug.
• 0:13
  In each episode, we dive into the joys and challenges of living with our furry companions,
• 0:17
  sharing honest stories, laughter and sometimes a few tears.
• 0:21
  We'll also bring in special guests to offer expert back tips and proven practices for keeping your pets happy, healthy and loved.
• 0:28
  Thank you for joining us.
• 0:30
  Hey Nat.
• 0:31
  Hey.
• 0:32
  How you doing?
• 0:33
  Yeah, I'm good.
• 0:34
  How are you?
• 0:35
  Yeah, I'm alright.
• 0:36
  Thank you.
• 0:37
  Not too bad.
• 0:38
  Nothing major has happened this week.
• 0:39
  Just carrying on as normal.
• 0:40
  You?
• 0:41
  Good.
• 0:42
  Yeah, that's always a good thing, isn't it?
• 0:43
  Yeah, the same.
• 0:44
  No major dramas?
• 0:45
  No, no.
• 0:46
  Touch wood.
• 0:47
  Don't tempt fate.
• 0:48
  But no.
• 0:49
  Not at the moment.
• 0:50
  Haven't done physio for a few weeks with Betty because the physiotherapist has been away.
• 0:55
  So usually do that on a Friday morning.
• 0:58
  Obviously, we're recording today on a Friday.
• 1:00
  So yeah, no, we're re-starting that next week.
• 1:03
  But no, no major dramas.
• 1:05
  But yeah, sorry I can't join you for the chat with Niall today.
• 1:10
  Yes, don't worry.
• 1:12
  There's life, isn't there?
• 1:14
  We need to understand we've got all the things going on so it can't always be the two of us.
• 1:18
  So yeah.
• 1:19
  No.
• 1:20
  Took the reins on this one.
• 1:21
  I mean, I know Niall very well anyway.
• 1:23
  We used to work together a few years ago, done projects together.
• 1:28
  I knew he'd be good for this one.
• 1:29
  He's got a gorgeous Irish accent and is very funny.
• 1:33
  So yeah, I'll have a lovely little chat with him in a bit.
• 1:36
  Yes, because he has a guide dog, right?
• 1:38
  That's the focus of your chat today.
• 1:40
  Yes.
• 1:41
  So yeah, I wanted to have a little conversation with Niall about him and his relationship
• 1:46
  with his guide dog, Ronnie, and just understand a little bit about not only the guide dog
• 1:51
  sort of role, but also just him with him and his sort of dog.
• 1:55
  It's not always a working dog.
• 1:56
  So she's sorry, it's not always a working dog.
• 1:58
  So I just wanted to understand that relationship in work and out of work or on harness and
• 2:03
  off harness.
• 2:04
  Yeah, it'd be really interesting to find out about Ronnie and Ronnie's role and then yeah,
• 2:10
  the bond between the two of them because they must be very close.
• 2:14
  It's got to be very strong.
• 2:15
  I think that's a whole part of it, isn't it?
• 2:17
  Because they play such a key role in allowing people to sort of access life as everyone
• 2:23
  else does.
• 2:24
  Yes.
• 2:25
  So yeah, that bond has to be strong enough, so much trust has to be there.
• 2:30
  I look forward to listening to that back and yeah, I'm just trying to think if there's
• 2:34
  anything else to cover.
• 2:36
  I mean, I think we've got lots of speakers booked in for over the summer, so that's quite
• 2:41
  exciting.
• 2:42
  We've got a real range of people that we're going to chat to, but yeah, I guess from autumn
• 2:47
  onwards we can think about the kind of topics that we want to explore.
• 2:50
  So if we have listeners listening today who have got topics, people, themes, things that
• 2:56
  they're really interested in hearing about or from, then let us know.
• 3:02
  Reach out to us.
• 3:03
  You can do that a lot of ways on TikTok, on Instagram.
• 3:05
  You can email us at pausebetweenus at gmail.com.
• 3:09
  Get in touch and let us know so we can bring you the content you want that will help you
• 3:13
  the most.
• 3:14
  Yeah.
• 3:15
  So yeah, halfway through the year.
• 3:16
  When did we start this podcast?
• 3:17
  Was it at the start of the year?
• 3:19
  I don't know.
• 3:20
  Was it March?
• 3:21
  February?
• 3:22
  Okay.
• 3:23
  So we're not quite at a one-year anniversary yet, but...
• 3:25
  It's been good to start the year.
• 3:26
  We've got lots of great guests.
• 3:27
  So I hope everyone's been enjoying and yeah, tell us what's your favorite or what's a new
• 3:32
  topic.
• 3:33
  So yeah, get in touch.
• 3:34
  Who did you enjoy hearing from?
• 3:37
  Yeah.
• 3:38
  I do know our short pauses are doing very well, so thank you everybody for taking the
• 3:42
  time to listen to them.
• 3:43
  I mean, the short pauses are our kind of news, research, hot topics sessions, aren't they?
• 3:50
  And our normal other ones are where we interview a guest and take a bit longer to sort of pick
• 3:55
  into an issue.
• 3:56
  So yeah, thanks for joining on both of those.
• 3:59
  Yeah.
• 4:00
  So yeah, I will love you and leave you then, as they say, and let you have a really good
• 4:03
  chat to Niall.
• 4:04
  And yeah, I look forward to catching up soon now.
• 4:08
  Okay.
• 4:09
  Thank you.
• 4:10
  Catch you in a bit.
• 4:12
  We're here with Niall, an old friend of mine, our old work colleague.
• 4:22
  We used to work together, didn't we, years ago, Niall?
• 4:24
  How are you?
• 4:25
  I'm well.
• 4:26
  Thank you, Nat.
• 4:27
  Keeping cool?
• 4:28
  Good.
• 4:29
  Yeah.
• 4:30
  Nice.
• 4:31
  Enjoying the sunny weather?
• 4:32
  We've been talking about this, haven't we?
• 4:33
  It's really hot today.
• 4:34
  Yes, but I'm not going to complain too much about it.
• 4:35
  No.
• 4:36
  While it's here, enjoy it.
• 4:37
  We're very much like Goldilocks, aren't we?
• 4:39
  It's like, can't be too hot, can't be too cold.
• 4:42
  Yes.
• 4:43
  Yeah.
• 4:44
  You spend half the year waiting for the sun to come, and then when it's here, we complain
• 4:45
  about it.
• 4:46
  Exactly.
• 4:47
  So yeah, so Niall's here, Niall's guide dog owner, and we thought it'd be brilliant to
• 4:52
  get his perspective on his lovely furry friend, Ronnie, and how he feels about Ronnie, how
• 4:58
  they work together, some of the things they struggle with, have difficulties with, as
• 5:02
  well as the loveliness of having a guide dog.
• 5:04
  So hopefully, he'll open your minds and spread some awareness about the, yeah, the relationship
• 5:10
  between a guide dog owner and the guide dog himself.
• 5:14
  So thanks for coming on, Niall.
• 5:16
  Tell us a bit about yourself and a little bit about Ronnie.
• 5:19
  Okay.
• 5:20
  I've got a vision impairment.
• 5:21
  I still have some useful vision, so I'm not completely without sight, which is helpful.
• 5:27
  I've had a guide dog since 1999, so I got my first guide dog 27 years ago.
• 5:33
  Ronnie's number five.
• 5:36
  And Ronnie is a, she's two months off coming to her ninth birthday, so she's mature.
• 5:43
  And she's a German Shepherd.
• 5:44
  She's quite small for German Shepherds.
• 5:47
  She's 20 and a half kilograms, roughly speaking.
• 5:49
  So not big for a Shepherd, but she doesn't feel like a small dog when she's working.
• 5:55
  Oh, German Shepherds are just beautiful.
• 5:58
  I don't know if I've ever, did I ever meet Ronnie?
• 6:00
  I don't remember meeting Ronnie now.
• 6:01
  If she was small, she was quite tiny, wasn't she?
• 6:05
  She's small.
• 6:06
  Yeah.
• 6:07
  Shepherds are quite long and they're quite athletic.
• 6:08
  They've got quite long, long, long sort of bodies and all that.
• 6:11
  But yeah, she's small for a Shepherd, but she's good travelling because she'll get in,
• 6:14
  you know, she can get her into the front of taxis and you can get her next to you on her
• 6:18
  train and things like that.
• 6:19
  So she's a decent size, but she is very beautiful.
• 6:21
  She's got very nice markings, perfectly symmetrical, and she does get quite a lot of attention because
• 6:29
  she's quite pretty, quite beautiful markings.
• 6:33
  So you said she's nine years old, Niall.
• 6:36
  When does she retire?
• 6:37
  She's coming up to nine.
• 6:39
  When they get to the ninth birth, the guide dogs, they come out and they do like an in-person
• 6:45
  visit.
• 6:46
  They check how things are going on, they'll observe her walk with the dog.
• 6:51
  If everything's fine, they will then leave it for another six months and they come back
• 6:55
  at like nine and a half and they'll do the same again.
• 6:59
  So given that we multiply by seven, basically for dogs to equate to human years, you know,
• 7:05
  when she's nine, she'll be 63.
• 7:07
  So that window nine to 10, that's the window when they're checking in to see how the dog's
• 7:13
  doing.
• 7:14
  So it depends on the health.
• 7:15
  If, you know, the pace, if they're still able to work, there's a chance to like reload a
• 7:20
  little bit if you can.
• 7:23
  I'd say it's unusual for a dog to go past 10 working for a guide dog.
• 7:26
  That would be unusual.
• 7:27
  It's not unheard of.
• 7:30
  But certainly, yes, she's getting to the point now from perhaps the next year that, you know,
• 7:36
  she would be getting retirement point.
• 7:38
  But every hardworking dog deserves a good retirement.
• 7:41
  Yeah.
• 7:42
  Yeah.
• 7:43
  And you said you've had five.
• 7:44
  So you've been through this a few times.
• 7:45
  Well, to be honest, I've not had a dog get to retirement before and that's because I've
• 7:50
  lost three dogs due to illness, two to cancer and one to heart failure.
• 7:55
  And one dog didn't work out for me in terms of match.
• 7:58
  So he went back and was matched with someone else.
• 8:01
  So I've not got to the point of actually having a guide dog reaching retirement before.
• 8:06
  Oh, that's, oh, I'm so sorry, Niall, I heard about that.
• 8:09
  But lots to dig through, you could speak about this all day.
• 8:12
  Well, let's talk about Ronnie, first of all, like what's Ronnie like?
• 8:16
  What's her personality and kind of what does she like to do?
• 8:19
  Because it's nice to understand the dog as a kind of its own personality, isn't it?
• 8:23
  Yeah.
• 8:24
  She's my first German Shepherd.
• 8:25
  The previous dogs were sort of variations on kind of retrievers, had a golden retriever
• 8:30
  cross collie for one of my guide dogs, but she's my first Shepherd.
• 8:35
  So I'd say what's really good about her, and I think this is typical of the Shepherd breed,
• 8:41
  is, you know, intrinsically motivated to work.
• 8:44
  So always up for working, just happy to do what needs to be done.
• 8:50
  I'd say business-like, just happy to go, happy to be with you.
• 8:54
  Whatever you need her to do, she'll just do it.
• 8:59
  She's quite good stamina.
• 9:01
  It's not like I need her to do hours and hours of work every day.
• 9:04
  But, you know, if we go on holiday and we're somewhere and she's out and about all day,
• 9:07
  she knows she will work hard.
• 9:10
  Good stamina.
• 9:14
  She's quite robust, so she's not frightened of, like, fireworks and things.
• 9:17
  You know, she's a pretty cool cucumber, I would say.
• 9:22
  Clearly very intelligent.
• 9:23
  Of course.
• 9:24
  Good memory.
• 9:25
  And because she's not a retriever, she enjoys her food, you know, she enjoys what she has.
• 9:35
  But she's not a scavenger.
• 9:36
  She's not so food-oriented.
• 9:37
  When she's looking for food off the pavement, she wouldn't pick up food off a pavement,
• 9:41
  for example.
• 9:42
  Yeah.
• 9:43
  So I'd say the other thing which is different from previous dogs, which is her shepherding,
• 9:49
  she's quite vocal.
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  So she can wit her on a bit.
• 9:53
  She'll pick up on noises and she'll start singing, wooing, which, yeah, and she can
• 10:03
  do it in meetings.
• 10:04
  And I wouldn't say, you know, I'd try and stop her from doing it.
• 10:07
  But there are certain points when she just might pick up on a noise.
• 10:11
  If she wants something, if she needs a drink or she needs to spend, she wants to go to
• 10:14
  the toilet, she will basically tell you, she'll communicate vocally that she wants something.
• 10:20
  So that's the shepherd.
• 10:21
  Yeah.
• 10:22
  So, because I've heard a little bit like this, sometimes guide dogs are on lead or on harness,
• 10:30
  quite serious, quite working, and then off lead, like a normal dog, playful, whatever.
• 10:35
  Is that the same with Ronnie?
• 10:36
  Yeah, very much.
• 10:37
  She is quite a playful dog and she is the sort of dog that you can have fun with.
• 10:43
  She's up for games, up for having fun.
• 10:46
  But certainly when she's working and when she's in an environment where she's basically,
• 10:53
  let's call it a standout, her behavior is very good.
• 10:56
  She understands those moments when it's work and those moments when, you know, this is
• 11:01
  my chill out space, like I'm at home in my toy boxes here, I'm out in the garden.
• 11:07
  So certainly, yeah, they do have that understanding of the difference between when I'm working.
• 11:14
  And to be honest, when she's at home, she's well behaved, you know, she's not allowed
• 11:17
  up on the furniture, she behaves well, but she can chill out and, you know, she can have
• 11:23
  games like a pet dog might, so.
• 11:25
  Yeah.
• 11:26
  Aw.
• 11:27
  Niall, when you're at home and you're kind of like, she's off harness and you and your
• 11:32
  husband are out and about doing things, does she like look out for your needs or does she
• 11:38
  sort of completely switch off and you can like navigate around the house and do your
• 11:42
  own things?
• 11:43
  Or is she quite like heightened to you?
• 11:44
  No, I'd say at home she's not.
• 11:46
  She's not looking out for me.
• 11:47
  I mean, she might, like if I'm upstairs getting ready or something, she might be, you know,
• 11:52
  waiting for me because she knows she's not allowed upstairs or she wouldn't come upstairs
• 11:56
  in the house.
• 11:57
  But she's not.
• 11:58
  No, I wouldn't say she's, from a work point of view, like she's thinking, oh, I need to
• 12:01
  be doing something.
• 12:04
  If she's watching out for me, I think it's just that's the bond thing.
• 12:08
  Because you're the dad.
• 12:09
  Yeah.
• 12:10
  Yeah.
• 12:11
  Yeah.
• 12:12
  You know, yes.
• 12:13
  So I'm the alpha.
• 12:14
  I'm the alpha in the house, but she's third in line because there's three in the household
• 12:19
  and she's third in the pack.
• 12:21
  But I'd say shepherds do quite like, you know, they're, I think they do make, they can make
• 12:27
  good family dogs, but I think, you know, they do have a strong bond with basically the person
• 12:31
  who's the, who they, you know, is the alpha.
• 12:33
  I think they've got that strength of bond.
• 12:35
  So, yeah.
• 12:36
  Like I said, like you being the dad there and you were like, no, yeah, alpha.
• 12:41
  How do you see Ronnie?
• 12:43
  Is it very much like, because obviously I think when you have a pet dog or a pet cat,
• 12:47
  whatever, I mean, I'm definitely a fur mom and it's very much more that kind of cosy
• 12:53
  cuddly kind of relationship.
• 12:55
  How is it with you and Ronnie like that?
• 12:58
  So, I mean, I've always been a dog.
• 13:00
  I've always been a dog person when I was a kid.
• 13:03
  I got a golden retriever when I was 11 years old, so I had him all through my teenage years.
• 13:10
  So, you know, I've always liked dogs, so being with a dog feels very natural for me.
• 13:15
  So, you know, having the opportunity to have a guide dog is a great thing for me because
• 13:19
  I get the dog experience plus I get the mobility support.
• 13:25
  So, yeah, I certainly, you know, when I'm out walking and I'm doing my work with her,
• 13:32
  she gets the structure that she needs from me for her to be able to perform her job and
• 13:37
  we have that sort of relationship.
• 13:40
  But at home, you know, I'm the one that plays with her and has games with her.
• 13:45
  I feed her.
• 13:46
  So, you know, she's looking to me for those extra things as well.
• 13:49
  Yeah, that makes sense.
• 13:52
  And you did touch on there about, like, some of the jobs she does and kind of going out
• 13:56
  and getting the mobility support.
• 13:57
  So, talk us through, like, what she does in her work mode.
• 14:01
  Yeah.
• 14:02
  Yeah.
• 14:03
  Basically, when she's on the harness and we're out, she will basically keep me, and this
• 14:10
  is that kind of the core training, to basically keep you in the centre of a pavement and keep
• 14:15
  you away from obstacles.
• 14:17
  So they try and keep a centre line, but basically, once you're out walking, they should just
• 14:22
  keep going straight in a straight line to come to a junction that they'll, they call
• 14:26
  it indenting at a curb, they'll come around and go to the curb.
• 14:30
  Keep going straight until you tell them to do something different.
• 14:33
  In practice, once you know, you know, you've got some regular routes and you'll get to
• 14:37
  know those routes, so they'll anticipate probably where you might want to go, which is fine
• 14:44
  as long as if you need them to do something different, they're quite happy to do something
• 14:47
  different.
• 14:48
  She certainly is.
• 14:49
  But they, you know, what she will do, she'll understand, like, they get to know certain
• 14:53
  words as well.
• 14:54
  So if I say, come on, Ronnie, we need to go to Waitrose, or if I say, we're going to go
• 14:59
  to town on the bus, or if I say, we need to go up, we need to go up to the chemist.
• 15:05
  She understands that that means we're going somewhere.
• 15:08
  Now, whether she precisely knows, you know, differentiates those things, but I'm pretty
• 15:13
  convinced, for example, if I say, come on, Ronnie, we're going to go to town on the bus.
• 15:23
  I'm pretty sure if I didn't give her any guidance with my instructions from where I got, she
• 15:28
  would follow the route to the bus stop.
• 15:30
  I'm pretty sure that she would do that.
• 15:32
  So but yeah, you know, she's watching for overhead obstacles.
• 15:35
  I'm tall, I'm six foot three, so this time of year, there's a lot of, like, vegetation
• 15:38
  starts to grow.
• 15:39
  She'll pause when you come to like an overhanging branch.
• 15:44
  She'll stop at curbs.
• 15:46
  If there's cars parked on pavements, which there certainly is in my part of the world
• 15:50
  on certain streets, she'll make a judgment about whether she can get through the gap
• 15:55
  and if it's too narrow, she'll come to the curb to indicate the obstruction.
• 16:01
  And in terms of people, you know, if there's people moving, she'll make a judgment, she'll
• 16:04
  keep me away from people.
• 16:06
  So it's not just fixed obstacles, it's moving obstacles.
• 16:10
  So in essence, what's really nice, I'd say, working with her dog is, you know, they take
• 16:14
  on the concentration of, you know, watching out for things.
• 16:19
  So you can relax a bit and you can, you know, be thinking about, you know, you've got a
• 16:23
  work meeting coming up or you don't have to concentrate.
• 16:29
  So if I'm using the cane, I've got a long cane, I can use a long cane, but you've got
• 16:33
  to concentrate using the long cane.
• 16:35
  You can't successfully go down the street and not be really concentrating and focused
• 16:39
  on what you're doing with a long cane.
• 16:42
  And of course, a long cane will find obstacles, which is its job, but what a guide dog does,
• 16:47
  it will avoid things.
• 16:49
  So you're not necessarily aware of what you're avoiding with the guide dog, which is different
• 16:54
  to long cane, which, you know, it will find bollards, it will find posts.
• 16:58
  But it's a very different feel, I'd say.
• 17:01
  The advantage of walking with a guide dog for me is there's a fluid aspect to your mobility,
• 17:07
  which I appreciate, which is very different from using a long cane.
• 17:10
  Oh, that, I mean, that is so amazing, just to be able to give you that freedom and that
• 17:15
  freedom of thought as well.
• 17:17
  So you can just enjoy going where you're going, thinking about your job, what you've got to
• 17:21
  do, rather than kind of focusing, hyper-focusing, like you say, on just getting from A to B.
• 17:26
  Yeah.
• 17:27
  And what's really good with the dogs is that they do remember.
• 17:30
  And I talked about, you know, they get to know places by name.
• 17:33
  So if I say there's a cafe near me, and it's, I'll call it Cafe Bot 1, if I say, come on,
• 17:39
  Ronnie, I'm going to Cafe Bot 1.
• 17:42
  It's on a terrace, when we're walking along that, you know, like a shop front of a terrace
• 17:46
  of shops, you know, she will get to that point, and she will go straight to the door because
• 17:49
  that's, she knows that that's where it is.
• 17:52
  So when you get that, relying on the memory, that's a really positive thing.
• 17:57
  And that's something that you get from a guide dog that you wouldn't get from a long cane.
• 18:00
  Yeah, yeah.
• 18:01
  And obviously, you have built that, after years and years, you've built that trust between
• 18:05
  you, so you know that she's going to take care of you and take you where you need to
• 18:08
  get to.
• 18:09
  Yeah, it takes, when you get a dog first, there's a lot of work you've got to put in
• 18:14
  as the guide dog owner initially to build that bond and trust.
• 18:18
  So they're technically competent when you get them, but they're still quite young.
• 18:24
  And they don't know you from Adam.
• 18:26
  So you have to build that bond and basically comes to a point where, you know, you do have
• 18:31
  that bond, you have that trust, they trust you, you trust them.
• 18:34
  But I'd say it takes six months to get to the point where you feel, I'd call it like
• 18:39
  broadly comfortable, then another six months where you feel this is just feels very natural.
• 18:45
  And it's not like there's no effort in it.
• 18:47
  But you both know exactly what needs to be done and how you both work.
• 18:52
  I'd say it takes a year after the dog's introduced to you before you feel, yeah, just that absolutely
• 18:59
  100% certain, comfortable and yeah, you can relax.
• 19:03
  Yeah, that would make sense, obviously, because it's taken time for you to get to know each
• 19:07
  other and then her to understand your needs and where you like to travel.
• 19:11
  Do they have like ongoing training to learn new routes and things as the years go by?
• 19:18
  So when you get your training with your dog, the instructor will basically, they'll like
• 19:25
  build up your routes.
• 19:26
  So start with something small initially and then over a period of three weeks normally.
• 19:32
  And what they might say is, if you've got, let's say, quite varied routes or you do quite
• 19:37
  a lot of different routes, they might say, well, let's just get you out of the blocks
• 19:41
  with these ones and then we'll come back and we'll build up.
• 19:46
  And I think for me, my experience is that once, what you don't want to do is put too
• 19:51
  much on the dog initially.
• 19:53
  So you're giving that time to build up the experience.
• 19:57
  But certainly if you felt, let's say you got a new job, if I got a new job and I was going
• 20:01
  somewhere completely brand new, certainly someone from the Guide Dogs, you know, would
• 20:06
  say if you need it, we'll certainly come out and help you in terms of like working out
• 20:09
  the best route.
• 20:11
  So that could be, for example, you know, best routes for things like crossings or it could
• 20:16
  be, you know, let's say it's an area where there's not like controlled crossings, you
• 20:20
  need to get across quite busy roads, they could help find out what's the best routes
• 20:25
  to take to, you know, get from A to B.
• 20:27
  So certainly that support's available if you need it.
• 20:32
  But yeah, I think once you're sort of confident and if your dog's confident with you and you're
• 20:37
  going to new places, certainly Ronnie's the sort of dog that she would be quite interested
• 20:42
  in new places.
• 20:43
  She'd find that quite exciting.
• 20:44
  So, you know, I would be confident with her going to a new place, but that wouldn't have
• 20:50
  happened like, you know, in the first three months, for example, you need the relationship
• 20:54
  to build up.
• 21:03
  You must then get kind of, do you feel a little uneasy when, you know, like Ronnie maybe get
• 21:12
  into retirement and then you maybe have to go through the relearning with a new dog?
• 21:16
  How do you feel about that?
• 21:17
  Yeah.
• 21:18
  So she's, yeah, coming up to nine and, you know, it would be nice, obviously, you know,
• 21:25
  she keeps well and she'll get to the point of retirement, I'd like to keep her and just
• 21:28
  have her as a retired dog at that point.
• 21:33
  It's always the prospect of like getting a new dog.
• 21:36
  It's always like there's a sense of optimism because, you know, the benefit that can come
• 21:40
  from it for sure.
• 21:41
  But also there's the apprehension that comes as well, Chris, because it is, it's quite
• 21:47
  a big undertaking and there's quite a lot of psychological and mental investment, emotional
• 21:55
  investment in a new dog.
• 21:57
  Oh, you're absolutely right now.
• 21:59
  Yeah.
• 22:00
  I'm glad you said that.
• 22:01
  Yeah.
• 22:02
  There's a sense of, you know, and certainly, you know, at the point where I have to hang
• 22:06
  up the harness and that's it, you know, you might have to think, oh, that's going to be
• 22:09
  a bit of a cry, but that's, you know, be nice to think, well, actually, it's a point of
• 22:12
  celebration here.
• 22:13
  You know, every hardworking dog, as I say, should have a, you know, should have a retirement.
• 22:19
  Yeah.
• 22:20
  Yeah.
• 22:21
  And yeah, I wonder if she'll, it'd be interesting to know whether she's able to switch off and
• 22:24
  like, you know, hang up her harness or whether she'll be just there ready to help daddy out
• 22:29
  as well.
• 22:30
  Help Alpha out.
• 22:31
  Yeah.
• 22:32
  Yeah.
• 22:33
  She's, yeah, that'll be interesting.
• 22:34
  We'll have to see.
• 22:35
  We'll have to see.
• 22:36
  Yeah.
• 22:37
  We'll see.
• 22:38
  But I think as long as she gets some degree of stimulation, I think she'll be okay.
• 22:42
  Let's not worry about that yet.
• 22:44
  We've got time for that, haven't we?
• 22:46
  Yeah.
• 22:47
  Yeah.
• 22:48
  So what are some of the difficulties you face, like with having a guide dog?
• 22:52
  What kind of things, what are the bugbears or what are the struggles that you face often?
• 22:56
  Yeah.
• 22:57
  Yeah.
• 22:58
  So I wouldn't, so I suppose it's not, they're not struggles, but there's the commitment you've
• 23:01
  got to a dog.
• 23:02
  So you've got the health care, you've got to make sure, you know, it gets exercise.
• 23:05
  So if it's like, you know, you get a couple of really wet, rainy days in a row and you
• 23:09
  think, oh, you know, I don't really fancy going out.
• 23:12
  You still need to go out.
• 23:13
  So and obviously like with a long cane, you come home and you can just like hang the cane
• 23:18
  up in a cupboard and shut the door.
• 23:19
  So, you know, you've got the health care.
• 23:22
  So, you know, there's that commitment to having an animal.
• 23:26
  And I suppose, yeah, really good mobility support gives me a lot of confidence in terms
• 23:30
  of getting from A to B. But, you know, it is a lifestyle choice to some degree, having
• 23:38
  a dog.
• 23:39
  So there's that side of it.
• 23:41
  But I suppose in terms of like struggles, I suppose the main ones would be things like
• 23:44
  if sometimes you get reception where you're not welcome.
• 23:47
  So it could be like taxi refusals in particular, or you want to go into a restaurant or a cafe.
• 23:54
  And for me, it does not happen very often happily, but, you know, it still does happen
• 23:59
  to people.
• 24:00
  So you're not always made to feel welcome.
• 24:01
  And then there's issues, I suppose, with maybe, you know, at times people might want to stroke
• 24:07
  the dog or she's on a horse and interact.
• 24:10
  And of course, you don't want that.
• 24:12
  So or sometimes it can be people wanting to feed the dog and it's like you don't want
• 24:18
  that either.
• 24:19
  So sometimes you have to interact.
• 24:20
  It's maybe like because she's very beautiful, you know, she does attract attention.
• 24:26
  But I'd say it's if there are distractions.
• 24:28
  The things as well, I suppose, you know, if payments are left cluttered or, you know,
• 24:34
  there's like one of these electric scooters that they're in my area, you know, sometimes
• 24:38
  you'll come up and they'll be like just parked right across the pavement.
• 24:41
  Or, you know, if it's bin day, if bins are like not left to one side of the pavement
• 24:45
  left or the right, they're just kind of like just left randomly in the middle.
• 24:48
  So sometimes you've got to either move them yourself when you come to them or you've got
• 24:51
  to come off the pavement.
• 24:53
  So little things like that.
• 24:55
  I'd say, I'd say, I suppose the thing that can be most difficult is if you've got people
• 25:02
  who want to interact with the dog, but you don't want them to.
• 25:05
  Yeah.
• 25:06
  Yeah.
• 25:07
  Because people are drawn to like petting an animal, aren't they?
• 25:09
  Yeah.
• 25:10
  And it's, I mean, the rule of thumb is basically if the dog's on the harness, if you see somebody
• 25:13
  with a dog on the harness, it's like, you know, don't interact with the dog.
• 25:16
  And that includes even looking at it and fluttering your eyelashes because some dogs will pick
• 25:21
  up on that straight away and will start wagging their tails like, oh, there's an interesting
• 25:24
  person.
• 25:25
  Yes.
• 25:26
  You look quite interesting.
• 25:27
  Yes.
• 25:28
  And then the feeding thing.
• 25:30
  It's very important that the dogs have, you know, have the diet that they have and keep
• 25:34
  a good weight.
• 25:35
  And, you know, particularly with retrievers and a lot of guide dogs and retrievers, they're
• 25:39
  quite food oriented.
• 25:41
  And obviously, but you don't want them thinking, you know, food on the street or food from
• 25:47
  other people.
• 25:48
  That's all fair game.
• 25:51
  You're trying to keep, you know, keep them on the street and as a working animal.
• 25:56
  So sometimes it's just dealing with those times when you have to like maybe say no or
• 26:01
  ask somebody not to do something or they say, oh, can we feed the dog and say, well, no,
• 26:04
  but you can treat the owner.
• 26:08
  Good comeback.
• 26:09
  Pint of beer, please.
• 26:10
  Yes.
• 26:11
  Yes.
• 26:12
  No, that's really good insight, like, yeah, for anyone who's listening and hasn't come
• 26:17
  across a guide dog at any time in their life, like, yeah, just don't distract it.
• 26:21
  I mean, I'm like Niall, you said about flushing your eyelashes.
• 26:24
  I'm definitely like that.
• 26:25
  As soon as you see a dog from afar, I'm like, hello darling, you know, I'm like almost mouthing.
• 26:29
  Yeah.
• 26:30
  And you'd be smiling and you'd be looking at.
• 26:31
  Yeah.
• 26:32
  And, you know, some dogs will pick up on that straight away and think, oh, and that looks
• 26:34
  interesting.
• 26:35
  She looks nice.
• 26:36
  Well, there's a nice person.
• 26:37
  Yeah.
• 26:38
  And so, yeah, you might make that connection, you know, visually, but obviously the person
• 26:43
  who's got that dog, you know, they want them to stay focused on their work.
• 26:47
  Yeah.
• 26:48
  And it's true as well when they're at stand down, I don't know, so let's say you come
• 26:51
  in and there's somebody, I could be in a work meeting and, you know, the dog will be running,
• 26:57
  be lying on the floor next to being somebody might say, oh, can I say hello to Ronnie?
• 27:00
  And I think the key thing is like always to ask, is always to ask that question.
• 27:03
  And sometimes, you know, owners will say, yeah, no problem.
• 27:07
  Or sometimes they'll just say, no, if you don't mind, thanks.
• 27:10
  So I think just respect the response, but the key thing is always to ask.
• 27:14
  Nice.
• 27:15
  Thanks, Niall.
• 27:16
  Brilliant.
• 27:17
  Brilliant bit of advice there, everyone.
• 27:18
  My single tip for the day.
• 27:19
  The top tip.
• 27:20
  Top tip.
• 27:21
  Offer Niall a pint instead.
• 27:22
  Yes.
• 27:23
  Or a tipple of choice.
• 27:24
  A tipple of something.
• 27:25
  Yeah.
• 27:26
  Not hard to please.
• 27:27
  No.
• 27:28
  Chocolates, anything.
• 27:29
  You did talk a little bit about health at the start of all of that and just wanted to
• 27:38
  quickly touch on like, how do you take care of Ronnie's health, knowing that you have
• 27:44
  very little sight, but enough, but like, what do you do to make sure Ronnie's well that
• 27:49
  way?
• 27:50
  And how do you interact with the vets if there's anything like that?
• 27:52
  Yeah.
• 27:53
  So at home, she gets groomed once a week and obviously when I'm grooming, you can feel
• 27:57
  the, so like, you know, you're keeping a feel for, you know, any lumps or bumps or things
• 28:02
  that feel different.
• 28:03
  So you can, you know, you can do that.
• 28:04
  I feed her.
• 28:06
  So I've got talking scales.
• 28:07
  So I make sure I, you know, give her the amount of food that she's have for her weight to
• 28:13
  keep it a good weight.
• 28:14
  So I'm able to do that.
• 28:17
  She, you know, and then just like, you know, like maybe like wiping a cloth across her
• 28:23
  face just if there's something like, you know, sleeping thing, just keeping like, you know,
• 28:26
  face clean, things like that.
• 28:27
  That's all easy enough to do.
• 28:31
  You know, you can obviously pick up on moods very easily with dogs.
• 28:34
  So if you think there's something not quite right, but you're not certain, it'd be kind
• 28:39
  of straight to the vets.
• 28:40
  But there's a couple of things that Ronnie is not very good at and one thing is taking
• 28:44
  her pills.
• 28:45
  So this might be a shepherd thing because the guide dog instructor who introduced me
• 28:49
  to Ronnie and had trained being with Ronnie said they're quite suspicious and her worming
• 28:56
  and flea pill that she needs every month, she's not very good.
• 29:00
  So if I break that up into small bits and try to get her to eat it, what could happen
• 29:05
  is she basically spits it out and then it goes somewhere on the floor and then I have
• 29:07
  to try and find it.
• 29:08
  So fortunately, my husband Jamie is able to deal with that because that is a bit of a,
• 29:16
  she's not good.
• 29:17
  My last dog was absolutely perfect, would just knock down, would just take a pill, no
• 29:20
  problem at all and just swallow it.
• 29:22
  Didn't have any issues, but she will just like nibble and spit it out.
• 29:28
  And then she needs, because she's a shepherd, she does need her nails clipping.
• 29:32
  So every, it's probably maybe one about every six months, the vet will check her out and
• 29:38
  will clip her nails.
• 29:39
  But certainly there's veterinary support from the guide dog.
• 29:44
  So she's at the vet once a quarter just to get my next batch of worming and flea.
• 29:48
  They'll check her out, she gets weighed, they'll look at her face and look at her mouth and
• 29:55
  look at her ears and things like that.
• 29:57
  And they might listen to her chest, listen to her heart.
• 29:59
  So they'll do a general kind of check over when you're there.
• 30:04
  And then, yeah, she does get her teeth brushed once a week because she did need a couple
• 30:10
  of small teeth taken out at the front and the vet said, you know, she's obviously got
• 30:13
  a bit of plaque buildup at the back, bit of tartar, but again, it's not the easiest thing
• 30:19
  to do in the world.
• 30:20
  But she does seem to quite like the liver, a toothpaste, liver-flavoured dog toothpaste.
• 30:23
  Oh, a little bit of taste, yeah.
• 30:26
  But again, Jamie's here, he does that, which is kind of handy.
• 30:30
  I probably could do that, but it's not the easiest thing in the world to do to, I think,
• 30:34
  brush dogs.
• 30:35
  Yeah, that sounds tricky anyway, so yeah.
• 30:39
  But certainly grooming, feeding, general paying attention to like her skin, any lumps and
• 30:45
  bobs kind of feeling and checking pads and things like that, you know, you put your fingers
• 30:51
  in and just checking there's not anything between pads, that sort of thing.
• 30:54
  Yeah, because you can feel quite a lot and I think I said this to somebody the other
• 30:57
  day, I was like with my cats, like, if you're stroking them, you get used to feeling where
• 31:01
  their lumps and bumps are and if anything feels unusual, then you can just know that
• 31:05
  from them being used to you petting them and stroking them and like you say, touching their
• 31:09
  feet.
• 31:10
  So you doing that, you know, yeah.
• 31:13
  Definitely, definitely.
• 31:14
  And there's little clues as well.
• 31:15
  So we've got like a wooden floor in the dining room.
• 31:17
  So, you know, there's been like the odd couple of times when she's maybe like free running
• 31:22
  and she's pulled something or she's hurt herself a bit.
• 31:25
  So say like she's walking across the floor with her clicky claws, you know, there's times
• 31:29
  if she had a bit of a limp, I've been able to hear that.
• 31:33
  Yeah.
• 31:34
  Or, you know, certainly on the harness, I think usually if there was like had a bit
• 31:40
  of a limp or a bit lame in one leg that you would be able to feel that through the harness.
• 31:44
  So yeah, there are certainly clues there.
• 31:46
  That's so interesting.
• 31:47
  Brilliant.
• 31:49
  Yeah, it's insightful for people to know a little bit about that.
• 31:51
  Yeah, just to know how you take care of a guide dog with somebody who has limited vision
• 31:56
  or spot those kind of health concerns.
• 31:59
  Yeah, yeah.
• 32:00
  But it's only the, they're at the vets once a quarter anyway, because the vet has to issue
• 32:06
  the woman flea tablets.
• 32:08
  So she gets a checkup routinely every three months.
• 32:11
  Well looked after little Ronnie.
• 32:13
  She certainly is.
• 32:14
  Top, top healthcare.
• 32:15
  Booper package.
• 32:17
  Certainly she gets everything that she needs and certainly the guide dogs are very good
• 32:21
  with the veterinary care.
• 32:22
  Yeah.
• 32:23
  Yeah.
• 32:24
  Aww.
• 32:25
  So yeah, coming towards the end now, like what do you enjoy most about having Ronnie?
• 32:29
  What's the best thing about her?
• 32:31
  Yeah.
• 32:32
  So, I mean, she's full of character.
• 32:34
  She's a very characterful dog, you know, we talked about her being vocal, but you know,
• 32:39
  she's just very business-like with her work.
• 32:41
  She's, you know, it's just great.
• 32:44
  You know, it's no more difficult than putting your coat and shoes on in terms of getting
• 32:47
  her, you know, into harness and heading out and just that positivity and happiness, just
• 32:53
  happy to be, to do whatever you need.
• 32:56
  But then, you know, she's very playful, she's very intelligent, you know, she's quite, yeah,
• 33:01
  she's quite affectionate and, you know, you can have fun with her.
• 33:06
  She sounds like a dream.
• 33:07
  So she's very, she's very rounded, you know, she's very, very rounded and she's, you know,
• 33:11
  she's not, you know, final work season and things like that, you know, she's quite robust.
• 33:15
  So she's just, she's a good, and she's very capable.
• 33:18
  As I say, she's very professional, she's very business-like, but she knows, she's very skilled
• 33:22
  at her job, she knows what she's doing.
• 33:23
  So it gives me a lot of confidence and, you know, I'm happy to go out with her, you know,
• 33:28
  if I needed to go somewhere completely new that I didn't know before, could be like a
• 33:33
  work thing, I'd be absolutely 100% confident that, you know, she'd be quite capable in
• 33:38
  the new area and I'd be 100%.
• 33:40
  Yeah, because it's all about you and your independence as well and you living your life
• 33:45
  and Ronnie's there to help you do that as much as possible, isn't she?
• 33:48
  Yeah, and she enjoys it, you know, she enjoys, I'm absolutely positive that she enjoys her work,
• 33:52
  you know, and she's, you know, I can tell because she certainly likes the destinations.
• 33:57
  When I said about, you know, going to Beatrice or going to the bus or even going to the pub,
• 34:01
  we've got a local pub, if I say we're off to the pub, you know, she knows exactly.
• 34:04
  She's pulling.
• 34:05
  Yeah, yeah.
• 34:06
  So she enjoys, really enjoys the destination.
• 34:08
  So when you, you know, drive somewhere and you give her a stroke, you know, she'll sit,
• 34:12
  you know, and have a smile on her face, you know, all pleased with herself.
• 34:16
  But why shouldn't she be?
• 34:17
  Yeah.
• 34:18
  So, yeah, yeah, just very good, very good, confident, capable.
• 34:23
  And I'll say, you know, I know that people can be nervous of shepherds, but just to say
• 34:27
  that temperament wise, certainly from a guide dog point of view, any shepherds that are
• 34:32
  guide dogs, you know, their temperament is no different from like a retriever, the common
• 34:37
  Labrador type of retrievers, Golden Retrievers.
• 34:39
  So, you know, the reason why they're good for things like guarding and why they get
• 34:44
  used for police dogs is one, they're very easy to train and they're very loyal.
• 34:49
  But yes, me, that's what she likes doing is chasing.
• 34:53
  So all her games, all her games that she loves to do in the house or in the garden, they're
• 34:58
  all chase oriented.
• 35:00
  And it's, you know, that's absolutely her game, her game of choices is chasing.
• 35:07
  But certainly temperament wise, you know, just perfect sort of temperament, but no
• 35:13
  difference in terms of like temperament really from retrievers, just difference in
• 35:17
  intelligence.
• 35:19
  Maybe, you know, they need to be stimulated.
• 35:23
  You've definitely got to be able to give them what they need.
• 35:27
  And Labradors could be a little bit more easygoing and maybe not.
• 35:30
  I wouldn't say she's demanding.
• 35:32
  Yeah, well, I think.
• 35:36
  No, no, I wouldn't necessarily say that, but I think she in her own way, she can be quite
• 35:40
  demanding, but not.
• 35:44
  All us women are, Niall.
• 35:45
  Well, I wouldn't want to say that.
• 35:47
  I'm glad you said that, not me.
• 35:48
  But certainly, you know, she does need to work.
• 35:53
  You know, she needs to work every day.
• 35:55
  Yeah.
• 35:56
  She enjoys her downtime.
• 35:57
  She enjoys her play.
• 35:58
  But, you know, you've got to give her what she needs.
• 36:01
  And.
• 36:02
  It's got to stimulate the brain and keep her active.
• 36:04
  Yeah, I think, you know, intelligent dogs do need something to do.
• 36:08
  So she needs she needs to work and just needs the, you know, she needs support and
• 36:12
  structure still. So you've got to make sure you put the right kind of
• 36:16
  support in that she needs as a sort of a shepherd.
• 36:21
  Yeah, because actually in itself, what you're saying is like good awareness for the
• 36:24
  breed, not only just as a guide dog, but as a breed, because they are intelligent.
• 36:28
  They need a lot of exercise.
• 36:29
  They need a lot of stimulation.
• 36:31
  So that, yeah.
• 36:32
  Yeah, I think she, you know, got like puzzle toys at home as well.
• 36:38
  So if there's any like sort of downtime, she can have like a puzzle toy and things
• 36:42
  like that. But certainly I'm aware that, you know, she she does need something to do
• 36:45
  with her brain, for sure.
• 36:47
  Yeah.
• 36:48
  Well, thank you for now.
• 36:49
  She sounds such a dream, like a gorgeous little dog.
• 36:53
  And I'm glad you've had her for as long as you've had.
• 36:55
  And hopefully she's got many more years to come.
• 36:58
  But like one final thing, what would you want the general public and other animal
• 37:03
  owners to know about the sort of the bond you have with Ronnie and what that's like?
• 37:09
  Yeah, I think what I'd say is like it's completely 50-50.
• 37:14
  It is a partnership.
• 37:15
  And the guide dogs described as a partnership.
• 37:17
  So I would just say that the dog requires something from you and you require
• 37:23
  obviously something from the dog in terms of the mobility support.
• 37:25
  But it's you're both putting something into the sort of partnership.
• 37:29
  So, you know, the dog needs support, structure and needs information from you.
• 37:33
  It needs a certain degree of instruction.
• 37:36
  So, you know, whilst the dog is taking the weight, the responsibility of keeping you
• 37:41
  safe and keeping me away from obstacles, I'm putting work in as well.
• 37:46
  That means that she's doing it in the right way and she can do it, you know,
• 37:51
  successfully. So I'd say that that's a key thing.
• 37:53
  And then finally, I suppose, just like we said, you know, they are working dogs.
• 37:59
  So when they're out looking after us, when we're out in environments where you might
• 38:04
  see somebody, you know, top thing, first and foremost, it's a working animal at that
• 38:09
  point. Yeah. Come back home, harness off, in the house, out in the garden, toys are
• 38:13
  out, you know, rolling on the carpet on their back, getting their bellies rubbed, all
• 38:17
  that, you know, that's stuff that happens when they chill out at home.
• 38:21
  But as soon as they're out and about and they know they're out and about somewhere and
• 38:25
  you've got the harness, there's a difference in there.
• 38:27
  Yeah, they get that.
• 38:29
  So just, I suppose, respect them first and foremost as a working dog.
• 38:33
  Yeah, got the working hat on, hat comes off, your playtime.
• 38:37
  Yeah.
• 38:37
  Aw. Work hard, play hard.
• 38:41
  That's it.
• 38:42
  Sounds like it.
• 38:42
  It sounds like it.
• 38:44
  Good old Roddy's got the best life ever with you, Niall.
• 38:46
  It sounds an adorable, like really good partnership.
• 38:49
  We both do well from it.
• 38:51
  Yeah, I can hear it as well.
• 38:52
  It's gorgeous.
• 38:53
  Well, thank you so much for coming on and telling us about Ronnie and yourself.
• 38:56
  And yeah, it's been really brilliant.
• 38:58
  And hopefully lots of listeners will kind of learn something new from this and act
• 39:02
  differently if they see a guide dog out in the street.
• 39:05
  Let's hope so.
• 39:05
  Thank you, Nat, for giving me the opportunity to come and speak with you today.
• 39:10
  Yeah, it's been brilliant.
• 39:11
  It's been nice to catch up as well after all these years.
• 39:13
  Thank you, Nat.
• 39:14
  Thank you very much.
• 39:15
  Take care.
• 39:16
  See you soon.
• 39:17
  Bye-bye.
• 39:19
  Bye-bye.