Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / My Bloody Valentine: A Historical Dive into Dream Pop's Pioneers [Episode 327]

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My Bloody Valentine: A Historical Dive into Dream Pop's Pioneers [Episode 327] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Just three albums released in forty years, yet each has
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: had a seismic impact, one heralded as a masterpiece, possibly
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: the greatest album of the nineties. This is the story
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: of My Bloody Valentine and the mastermind behind the music,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Kevin Shields. That's coming up next. I'm booked on Rock.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Oh, we're totally bummed rock and roll. I mean, I'll
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: leave you. You're reading. Little Hands says it's time to
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: rock and roll. Roll up, I totally booked.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Booked on Rock, the podcast for those
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: about to read and rock. We've got a first time
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: guest on the podcast. It is Andrew Pearre. His brand
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: new book is titled Turned My Head Into Sound, A
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  Speaker 1: History of Kevin Shields and My Bloody Valentine. Andrew, Welcome
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  Speaker 1: to the podcast.
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  Speaker 2: Thanks Lon, appreciate edding.
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  Speaker 1: My Bloody Valentine released just three albums, yet each has
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  Speaker 1: made such an impact. Their nineteen ninety one album Loveless
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  Speaker 1: considered by so to be the best album of the nineties.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: When did you first hear of My Bloody Valentine? When
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  Speaker 1: did you become a home?
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  Speaker 2: I heard them when they put out their first important
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  Speaker 2: record when I was sixteen, So it hit right at
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: that key moment in your life when music's kind of important.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: So I was there from the beginning and simon folling
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: them since I'm about fifty two now, so I was
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: following them this full time pretty closely.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: You provide a history of shoegaze music in the book,
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  Speaker 1: so they are under that category of shoegaze music. So
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: I'm sure there's somebody listening now saying, what is shoegaze music?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really funny. It's they kind of inspired these
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  Speaker 2: other bands to take up the guitar and get excited,
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  Speaker 2: and yet what they were doing has nothing in common
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  Speaker 2: with these bands. So they kind of got grouped together,
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  Speaker 2: lumped together, and this category was made, and I can't
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  Speaker 2: there was some there was something to these the initial
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  Speaker 2: bands that they were inspired in my body Valentine. But
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  Speaker 2: they did the exact opposite things that my buddy Valentine
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  Speaker 2: did in the studio, truly the opposite, and so it
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  Speaker 2: was this strange thing to him that they were being
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  Speaker 2: compared to them.
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  Speaker 1: That name shoegaze. These bands. Oftentimes when you'd see him
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  Speaker 1: in concerts, they're staring down at maybe.
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  Speaker 2: Like the the pedals they're looking at. They're not dynamic
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  Speaker 2: band necessarily, so they're looking away and yeah, my buddy
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  Speaker 2: Valentine and Kevin Schiel is not a real dynamic character
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  Speaker 2: on stage, yes, and Nora Is some other bands and
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  Speaker 2: it was first meant as a derogatory thing, but it
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  Speaker 2: took off for some reason instead of like dream pop
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  Speaker 2: or something else there whatever became shoegaze and it comes
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  Speaker 2: to define It's really a strange category because it's so
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  Speaker 2: broad they people put anything into it almost. But there
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: was an initial group of bands right after on their
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  Speaker 2: first album, the first major album came out. Isn't anything
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  Speaker 2: or inspired by them, like two years later that was
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  Speaker 2: like that was considered. That was the first generation of
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  Speaker 2: shoe ga is like a slow Die and Rush, I
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  Speaker 2: mean Bride and Lush and some of these other bands
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  Speaker 2: around that. And then they went off into their own things,
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  Speaker 2: but they were seen as you know, a lot of
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  Speaker 2: people got excited about the guitar again because of him,
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  Speaker 2: and a whole bunch of British bands came about British
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  Speaker 2: guitar bands a new generation and.
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  Speaker 1: Kevin Shields is the main guy and that that Shoegaz's
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  Speaker 1: label never sat well with him.
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  Speaker 2: No, I mean it's just nothing. You know, they're using
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  Speaker 2: stuff from the seventies that hasn't changed, like except the
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  Speaker 2: Beatles and Hendricks pioneered like echo, flanging, phasing, reverb. He
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: doesn't use that. That's stuffing but modulation typically and hasn't
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: really changed since nineteen seventy, So he doesn't use that.
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  Speaker 2: He has a totally different and it's kind of very
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  Speaker 2: top down. I mean top down. You can't you can't,
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  Speaker 2: can't interact with it. Really, it's so it's not that
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  Speaker 2: emotive or anything. And what he does is totally a
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  Speaker 2: different thing. He doesn't do any one thing now. But
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  Speaker 2: for a while he played this thing called live guitar.
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  Speaker 2: They kind of called it. There was this a way
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  Speaker 2: you used the tremblo arm with some different effects and
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  Speaker 2: the very emotive and Johnny Marv the Smith was a fan,
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  Speaker 2: and Brian Eno and Pattie Smith and anyone you want
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  Speaker 2: a name is that you know, it was like a
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  Speaker 2: that from Garbage. You produced an Ivana's album. Never mind.
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  Speaker 2: Billy Corgan is a huge fan, you know, and so
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  Speaker 2: they often you know, he's like the most interesting guitar player.
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  Speaker 1: Well that's interesting that you mentioned Billy Corgan. That's interesting
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  Speaker 1: that you mentioned that because I hear the influence. I
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  Speaker 1: hear the my bloody Valentine influence in the Smashing Pumpkins,
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  Speaker 1: particularly Simeon's dream.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a quote and he's like, don't ask me
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  Speaker 2: about this stuff. The only person doing anything original is
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  Speaker 2: Kevin Shields. You know, I got I took this stuff
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  Speaker 2: from Kevin Shields something like that. And uh, you know
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  Speaker 2: another bend bu Radley's they're big at England and uh
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  Speaker 2: so and uh, what's the best thing from garbage the
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  Speaker 2: drummer uh the produced a never mind? Uh he was
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  Speaker 2: saying out there. They're hallucinatory, the the uh, the the
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  Speaker 2: tones and textures and everything. And there's some videos on
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  Speaker 2: there's four pretty good videos on YouTube. But it'll give
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  Speaker 2: you some idea. They're kind of analogus to the songs,
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: but you can't hear them properly on on a computer
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  Speaker 2: or anything. It's best he's doing. He really cares about
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  Speaker 2: the fidelity and stuff, so you want to hear on
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  Speaker 2: a proper stereo of some way if you can. But
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: they're to give you some idea of what is going
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  Speaker 2: on that it's not it's a it's pretty psychedelic and
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  Speaker 2: out there.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, is weird right right? Yeah? Yeah. But Kevin Shields,
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  Speaker 1: he's an indie rock icon, but he's relatively obscure among
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  Speaker 1: the mainstream music fans.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean all the people in the bands know him,
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  Speaker 2: all the engineers, all the critics, all the other people
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  Speaker 2: know him. When there was a poll in Ireland for
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  Speaker 2: like the best Irish album the last fifty years, hundred years, whatever,
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  Speaker 2: or of all time, maybe Loveless one easily batting out
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: everything by YouTube, by the Cranberries, by Enya, by Snead
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  Speaker 2: O'Connor easily won the contest. Like the best album from
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  Speaker 2: nineteen ninety one, Loveless, which is like his is everything
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  Speaker 2: came together perfectly. It's there is a revolver album if
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: you want to call it that, you know, analogy or something,
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  Speaker 2: and I think it beat like Autung Baby two to
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: one and Acting Baby was inspired a lot by their
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  Speaker 2: previous album, but this one was more with this more
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  Speaker 2: expensive sounding Loveless. So I mean that was a poem
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  Speaker 2: among people who are publicist, critics, journalists, all industry people
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  Speaker 2: so in Ireland, so they and it's not particularly Irish
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  Speaker 2: sounding he grew up in He spent ten years in America,
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  Speaker 2: ten years in Ireland, in ten years in London. By
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  Speaker 2: the time by the time he'd.
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  Speaker 1: Done that album, Yeah, let's talk it. He's so he's
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  Speaker 1: of Irish descent, but he was born and raised in Queens,
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  Speaker 1: New York.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, the first and years. So there was a there
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  Speaker 2: was a big unemployment problem in the fifties in Ireland,
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  Speaker 2: so a bunch of them left the country and his
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  Speaker 2: parents came here a bunch of other Irish emmigrats, and
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  Speaker 2: so he was raised here in the first ten years.
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  Speaker 2: Then he has four brothers and sisters who are all
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  Speaker 2: distinguished themselves in other ways, and they knew back when
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  Speaker 2: he was ten, but he picked up on all the
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  Speaker 2: American stuff, like he saw the Jackson's cartoons and the
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  Speaker 2: Parkridge family and the Beatles cartoons and all the music stuff,
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  Speaker 2: and he was he was doing musical experiments even at
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  Speaker 2: a really young age. And and then when he got
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  Speaker 2: to Dublin, he got you know, when by the time
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  Speaker 2: he's fifteen or sixteen, at his first guitar, I was
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  Speaker 2: playing in bands and stuff and then they you know,
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  Speaker 2: then there's by the time he was like twenty. I
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  Speaker 2: guess they left Ireland to find their way.
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  Speaker 1: But as far back as you said when he was
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  Speaker 1: a kid, he was eleven years old when he did
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  Speaker 1: something with the sound of a vacuum cleaner.
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  Speaker 2: He was like taping. He was doing these experiments with
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  Speaker 2: like his like eleven, I think, get right, And he
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  Speaker 2: was taking a sound and putting on a you know,
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  Speaker 2: one team recorder and rerecording out another tape recorder and
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  Speaker 2: going back and forth and doing the kind of experiments
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  Speaker 2: you see people doing at universities and stuff like that. Uh,
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  Speaker 2: with learning about how it sounds, decay and all that
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  Speaker 2: kind of.
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  Speaker 1: Stuff and the warbly sound of the television.
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  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the clip there's a clip of Hendrix playing
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  Speaker 2: at Woodstock. He liked playing. Uh maybe it was the
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  Speaker 2: national anthem and it was really warped and he really
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  Speaker 2: liked that. And then we heard the actual thing. It
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  Speaker 2: wasn't as warped, but this copy he had and some
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  Speaker 2: of the tape copies are really warped. And he likes
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  Speaker 2: the idea of like this is an Eastern idea of
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  Speaker 2: music too, you know, not exact tones everywhere, going in
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  Speaker 2: between blue notes and stuff like that, and uh, you
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  Speaker 2: know that's in his guitar playing. He goes out of
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  Speaker 2: tone tune a lot, sort of the back in so
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  Speaker 2: it's not not it's disorienting a little bit, but it
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  Speaker 2: always comes back, so you're back, you're oriented again. But
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  Speaker 2: he blurs all these things together to make the really
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  Speaker 2: neat composite sound.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, blurs it and Ben sounds and we're talking about
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  Speaker 1: again eleven years old. I mean, you hate to throw
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  Speaker 1: the word genius around, but I don't know, man, eleven
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  Speaker 1: years old, you're starting to think about those things.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, gets thrown around. And if you hear about the
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  Speaker 2: experiments he did and in the studio and just you
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  Speaker 2: know Alan McGee who started creating records which which the
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: label Wastis was on, for example, and primal screamings from
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: other British bands. You know, he just said straight up
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: he was a genius. He thought he was. He was
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  Speaker 2: like one of the best an ar men of his generation.
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  Speaker 2: And he's just straight up as the guy's a genius.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: But he's maddening and difficult because he's you know, he
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  Speaker 2: doesn't have that much control over himself. He doesn't mean
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: to be, but he's he's not the most productive guy.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: In some ways. He's had some issues, as we all do.
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  Speaker 1: Sure, you know, how does the band form My Bloody Valentine.
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  Speaker 1: This is when he goes when he moves back to
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  Speaker 1: Ireland that eventually leads to the formation of My Bloody Valentine.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was the first iteration with a different singer
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  Speaker 2: named Dave Conway and so okay, So he first ends
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  Speaker 2: up with the drummer who's been in the band the
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  Speaker 2: whole time and as his partner in crime called a
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: quasac I guess a kuzak or something. And so they
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: meet at like sixteen or seventeen, and he's been in
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: two of them have been together the whole time pretty much,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: and they get a singer named Dave Conway. And in
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: about eighty four they get advice from this other band
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  Speaker 2: they really respect to leave Dublin and they felt like
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: it didn't fit in there. Anyone who does anything too different,
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  Speaker 2: it's like you're shunned. You know, you can't do anything
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  Speaker 2: too radical there. And this was a different time in place.
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  Speaker 2: This is the you know, the late seventies, early this
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  Speaker 2: is the early eighties really, and you know the world
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  Speaker 2: was much more confined and not nothing like today with
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: the Internet and the world all around us so easily available.
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  Speaker 2: So he told him go He told him go get
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  Speaker 2: away from Dublin, from Ireland. I don't go to London though.
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  Speaker 2: So they went to the Netherlands first. It was him
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  Speaker 2: Calm the drummer who's his good friend, Dave Conway the singer,
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  Speaker 2: and Dave's girlfriend played a keyboard and based kind of
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: on keyboards, and so the four of them went to
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  Speaker 2: the Netherlands first for about four months, and then Germany
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: and they were really they had a good they had
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  Speaker 2: a good time. They hadn't they they were it's just
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: after the birthday hard to get left. I don't know
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: many Americans know that. Well, it's Nick Cavee's original band,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: and Germans are very open to everything. And he saw
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: these bands doing radical things, but like taking pop songs
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: and doing crazy things with them, and it was an
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: inspiring time. And then they eventually end up in London
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: after another after about a year in the Mitherlins in Germany,
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: and he next gets affected by uh. Up to this
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: point he been to the Ramones and the birthday party
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: and what else. Some of the some some stuff like
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: t rex and stuff like that. Yeah, probably the probably
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: the birthday party and the Cramps, kind of the rockabilly
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: kind of stuff and Gothic kind of rockabilly stuff. And
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: then he hears the Jesus and Mary Jane in eighty
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: four eighty five, and they moved to London and Jesus
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  Speaker 2: and Mary Jane take these It takes like almost a
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Phil Spector tite melody and simple beat and put noise
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  Speaker 2: on top of it. I mean it really sounds like
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  Speaker 2: be My Baby or something, but done with like harsh guitars.
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  Speaker 2: And he was kind of that really blew his mind,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: and they had a couple of years where they couldn't
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: figure things out. They didn't know we're directing. And then
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  Speaker 2: Dave Conway left, they got a proper bass player, and
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Dave Conway left and his girlfriend left also, and Debbie
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Googe joined on bass. First in eighty five and then
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: eighty seven Blinda Butcher joins and everything changes, things fall
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: into place. That's the band of now, Blenda Butcher, Kevin
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Shields Comb and Debbie.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the phase where they're making these mini
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: out this before the lineup that became what we know
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: in those two albums in ninety one, there's some there
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: were some mini albums recorded and released. Shields has tried
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: to warn fans away from listening to anything he made
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: prior to nineteen eighty seven. He says there's he regarded
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: as it's a little more than juvenilia. I think was
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: the word. Yeah, I mean, what are we hearing on those?
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: How different is it from.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: I mean year, the very first mini album I did,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: that actually did in the professional studio and it actually
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: got some good write ups and that one works. And
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: then after that that album was done in Germany and
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: it's a totally different sound, but it still works. It's okay,
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: got good write, a good writer work here, which I
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: put in the book. And then they did like three
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: or four EPs in London and there you could it's
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: just very stilted and it doesn't work, and I'm not
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: happy with it. And they're still learning the studio, and
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: there's a good reason he warns people away from them.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: They just they're kind of like they're in transition from
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: the rockabill They like Jesus and Mary Jane, and they're
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: trying to be original and they are too conceptual and uh,
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: you know, they had like matching haircuts for a while,
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: a' llah there, Ramones and some other bands like that,
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: and uh, you know, they're just feeling their way out.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: And then Dave Conway leaves just oh, he just left,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: just because he wasn't he the dretching the band was
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: going and was a little bit more melodic, and he
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: had thought they'd done everything they were going to do
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: and he wanted to write and he wasn't. He wasn't
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: pushed out or anything. He chose on his own to leave.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: He went on to become a pretty successful writer.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: I don't I'm not sure how big he is or anything.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: His books. I think they're good, but I don't know.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: I think he does comics and books, and yeah, I
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: mean it's competitive.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: But he stirred away from a music career.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he has nothing to do with music anymore.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: And and and I got to talk to him, and
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: you know, he right away he felt the outsider. He
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: felt he had a lot of common with him as
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: an outsider in Dublin. And so they you know, they
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: were a real unit before them the first iteration. But
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: then eventually he leaves. In eighty when they first moved
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: to London, his girlfriend leaves the band she's just done
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: it to go along. Her name is Tina Durkin. And
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: then he leaves in the early eighty seven, and then
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: they get another lead singer for a minute, and Belinda
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: Butcher comes on too to sing back up. And Shield
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: doesn't want to be the lead singer. He doesn't want
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: the attention or have to deal with that.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: But and he also they mentioned the Smiths in their
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: ad for a new singer, and that.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: He likes Johnny Mah, which I'm a huge fan of.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: But and Morrissey's talented too. But all these Morrissey wantabes
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: came in.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, more poor Morrissey imitations.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was like a disaster, he calls them. Almost
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: of fruit ball showed up, you said, so that was
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: that was not good. So they ended up just getting
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: to to came down to two people to two women
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: who they knew his friends through friends. And this guy
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: was the lead singer for a minute too, started another
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: ban called Gallon Drunk years later, and so he left
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: after one show, and then Belinda Butcher was chosen and
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: she stuck around if she could sing and key perfectly,
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: and she just natural ability to tell.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Right away, and that radically changed the band's sound.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and there was just like from that moment on,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: everything starts on the place, even the stuff that isn't
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: even the stuff they do before the main body of
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: their work really starts an eighty eight. There's releases in
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: eighty seven that are they kind of don't like to
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: talk about that much, but they're not they're not their
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: truest sound. They're a little more tweet, a little more
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: like a little more pop than they would be there.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: They're not as true to their own sound, and but
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: there's still some moments on there where you hear them
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: it's better than some of its parts. Finally, with Belinda
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: and they start, it just works, you can tell. But
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: then after so they brought these two things of Strawberry
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Wine single and Ecstasy EP I'm Lazy, and they leave,
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: and they finally got an invitation to get on Creation Records,
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: which Jesus and Mary Jane originally were on, and they
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: were a very small label, but they went in there
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: just with they were on the verge of breaking up
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: for a while and they just because they weren't having
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: any success and u they finally just went in there
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: and just let all their therefore, don't their influences show
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: in a way because they were afraid it would be
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: too it would look like a copycat or something. But
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: they finally let their influences show and it became something original.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: You know. They let the Sonic Youth and Dinazard Junior
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: and the Public Enemy and all these things go in.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: And that EP is just is their breakthrough port because
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: you made me realize. And then from there on that
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: it's just been successful. Except all their releases, even though
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: they've had personal problems, the records have never let them down.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: What they put out isn't anything. That's the first full
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: length studio album. Let's get into this. There's some amazing
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: stories in the book on this. He told the engineer
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Dave Anderson at one point to erase all the dry
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: elements of the guitars to leave only the processed reverse
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: reverb signal on the tapes.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So he figures out through the slowly, through a
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: couple of steps. What he does on up to the
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: album Loveless anyways is his main thing is the thing
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: he uses. He uses the jazz Master, which has a
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: very unique tremolosystem, and uh, he doesn't put it in
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: all the way, puts a piece of tape on the
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: end and he puts it in kind of loosely and uh,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: so he can play with it whoever he wants. And
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: it's not like a typical anyone you've seen play a
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: tremolo arm before, and like he strums with it and
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: instead of like you know, people usually bend notes with it,
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: he's like chord bending. And all their songs have like
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: one main just one guitar typically, even though it sounds
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: like like a guitar army, he has one main guitar
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: most songs. And he used reverse reverb an iteration of it.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: There's different meanings for that. That's uh. And you have
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: the initial dry attack that's recorded and and then you
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: have the reverse reaver and then the part that's made
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: by the digital machine. And he heard just the digital
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: part coming out of the speakers and he came into
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: the room. He's like, what the hell is that. He's
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: like on the engine embers like, oh, that's just that's
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: just the digital element of it. It'll sound different when
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: we when we put back the original dry attack. You know,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: that's nothing. And he's like, no, that's my sound. He's like,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: that's it. That's what I want. And uh and uh,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: it's very disembodied and very strange. But he used in
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: such a way that uh mystified these other bands to
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: cause Red to copy him. And he's using the so
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: he's using the tremble orm in a different way. He's
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: using this reverse reaver, which is a digital effect. But
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: he he tapes it through speakers, analog speakers, so you
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: get all kinds of breakup and phasing and weird things
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: because the analog world is better for distortion and breakup
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: and all kinds of things there's not digital. Distortion doesn't
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: great or break Digital things don't distort it and break
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: up well. And so so he taped everything through Mike's
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: you know, it doesn't go right into the desk or anything.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: And the whole album is really diverse, isn't anything. It
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: was done for like no money. There's an EP that
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: they recorded their second epeak on the album at the
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: same time, so about twenty tracks over like five weeks
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: and and for almost nothing. And he was just really
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: creative because he found this a new way to play
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: guitar that no one had used before. And it just sounds.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: The sounds are so different on the album and every
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: song but it's kind of the same setup. And everyone
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: thought it was like ten guitars on some songs, but
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: it's just one. But you have you have each string
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: gives off its own harmonic resonance and bending, and there's
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: a certain kind of tremulous system on the jazz Master
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: and Jaguar guitars that's unique to them, different from a
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: stratocaster or whatever. So I mean like the fact that
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: he figured this out and knew to turn the tone
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: down and to get the right sound, and he took
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: a couple of steps and just figured this out, and
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: it's just the most it's really evocative and emotive and different.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: And so you know, all these people are fans of him.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: And then he's a great songwriter too. You know, he's
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: a sophisticated songwriter, and you know, I talked to my
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: friends who know about songwriting, and he starts all songs
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: on just an acoustic guitar and use some weird tune
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: you kind of like joining Mitchell h So he starts
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: off with that as his basis, and you can see
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: jazz chords like Bacharac or Brian Wilson or Anteno Carlos,
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: Joe Beem, Tom Joe Beam really sophisticated chords. So you
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: start with that. Then you have he really understands the
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: studio and can use it like no one else, and
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: you get these recordings that are just are you know, otherworldly?
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to share This is a funny story
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: from the book. Another memorable moment from that album. It's
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: when they're tracking the bass guitar for feed Me with
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Your Kiss Shields. He made the bass so heavy that
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: the speaker popped off the wall. Instinctively, the engineer put
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: his foot out to break its fall, breaking his ankle
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: in the process. It's a dangerous profession working with Kevin,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: and he.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: Wears the engineers out and uh and uh Calm was
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: his friend. Drummer Colm was the mainly the engineer he
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: worked with the you know, was the one he wanted
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: to work with. And the engineers who came with the studio,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: he'd say, you can leave, it's okay, we don't need
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: you and uh. They would try to tell him how
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: to record and they sin, you can't, you can't do that.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: You can't go both for hurtz or whatever, and you know,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: and sometimes the person who owned the studio was also
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: the engineer, so they try to cover up things that
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: weren't working right and all kinds of problems, and he
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: just knew what he was doing. By eighty eight, he
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: really owners to the studio. So he really has a
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: good sense of rhythm. It's very American compared to like
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: the bridge bands around that time. Uh, it's much more American,
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: much more like Sonic Youth, Our Donna's or Junior. Really dynamic.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: So he he's a really good bass player. He plays bass,
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: even though they have different sound. They have a great
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: sound live and Debut plays bass live and there and
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Calm plays drums live and they have a great sound.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: But he plays the bass in the studios because it's
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: faster and he's a great player, and he just wants
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: to play take forever to teach her the lines and
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: have a different feel. So he plays the bass and
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: he's really good, and uh, all these songs, you know,
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: he's thinking about the rhythm and then he's thinking about,
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: you know, not only what you hear, but what you
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: want to feel in your body. So you know, it's
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: very like, Uh, he's very in tune with dance music
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: and hip hop and all that stuff. So so he
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: really influenced all his bands, the much more bass and
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: drum presence. He never neglected that. So there's always something
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: funky going on or something heavy, or you know, some
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: of the stuff he went there kissing. It's like almost
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: like a hardcore variation of some sort from some American band,
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: like a Keith Moons thing, these abrupt cyclonic drums films
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: and it just stops and starts, and.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: It what about the way the way he was he
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: still does blurs boundaries with music male female, loud, soft
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: East West mind body talk about some of the ways
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: he did that, both lyrically and sonically, Like with the
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: combination of voices too, You're not sure if it's his, Belinda's.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Both, Yeah, I mean the voices are. You know, instead
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: of using like artificial double tracking, which a lot of
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: people do, it creates it creates a second vocal for
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: you that's slightly off, so it sounds like a second vocal.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: For the Loveless album, they laid down like twelve to
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: twenty vocals and it has a weird phasing effect. And
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: so that was like another thing he just did that
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: was just different and sounds interesting and utterly unique, you know,
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: And he just thought of that on his own, and
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: you know, it just doesn't do anything. He does everything
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: for a reason, exploits the studio and he's just exploring
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: it as if like the Beatles would or Pink Floyd
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: or Hendrix. I mean, those are really the people he's
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: looking at for like, I'm gonna look down each avenue
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: and figure out what I can do here, and he's not.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: You know, but the one thing is he won't. He
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: takes a long He takes a long time because everything
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: has to be set upright and he has to be
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: in the right state of mind. So there was a
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: lot of stress and a lot of problems because it
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: took long to complete the second album. Loveless and Creation
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: was not a secure company, a very small indie company.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: They would later sell to Sony for millions of dollars,
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: but they would get an input from Sony and cell
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: half in like a ninety two. But this was before
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: that and then and so they had the struggle making
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: this finish in their second album. It took like two
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: years or something. He said it was two months to
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: work over two years. He just wouldn't feel like recording,
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: but the studio was books. I would go there and
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: hang out, and it was such a different world there.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: There was a whole squatting scene and they lived on
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: the dole and it's just a totally different world. All
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: of these bands blurbed. Just to Mary Jane Pulp, they
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: lived on the dole and squatted and did their art
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: and developed, and we have nothing like that in America.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: No.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: You know, Kirk Obain had a hat with his girlfriend
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: working for him while working at a job supporting him
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: while he was developing that band.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: You know, let's get into Loveless a little bit more.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: Andrew Parr, he's the author of Turned My Head into Sound,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: A History of Kevin Shields and My Bloody Valentine nineteen
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: ninety one's Loveless. It's we mentioned, it's herald it is
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: maybe the greatest album of the nineties. It's a masterpiece.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: He had nobody, nobody was having a good time making it.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Talk about the problems within the band and then the
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: professional and the personal obstacles they had to overcome.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: But at this point when they were starting to record it, okay,
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: before they even said before this team started recorded Creation,
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: which is a pretty small label, change distributors, and that
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: put them in the red all of a sudden. I
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: don't know how that works exactly, but they changed from
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Rough Trade to Pinnacle, and so they were already the
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: company was already they're red and so they're trying to
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: make this great album and they're real ambitious and they're
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: deciding they're not just gonna settle anymore, and they're gonna is.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: He wants to make a great album, and he's gonna
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: make it sound it sounds like an expensive album, and
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: it took a long time because he's not gonna he
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: wants everything to work right, even though they're going into
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: these mid range studios. So uh so they get to
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: a studio and when he ended up using nineteen studios
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: to record this album over to over two years too.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: If you count everything all the time from after their
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: last album till the second album, it's almost like three
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: years or something. They had to abandoned EPs because they
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: weren't they didn't fel through making progress. So nineteen eighty
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: nine they weren't feel the advancing. Nineteen eighty nine they
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: released nothing, but they experimented with sampling and he turned
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: to play the They sampled guitar a lot, and he
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: came back with this the EP next came out with
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Glider and I had a big hit icle Soon. It
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: was a dance song and it wasn't like a dance
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: song you'd heard before. It's very vague and uh, it's
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: ambient kind of Brian, you know, was a huge fan
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: of it and that that. So these two EPs are
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: like the singles for the album Loveless, but their proper EPs.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: They are four song EP's that are you know, they're
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: they're not just random b size, they're thought out EPs
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: or four songs each. Actually one one has interstitial tracks,
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: so one it's called Glider, and that was that was
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: like there the EPs tell their story how they changed,
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: and then they kind of consolidate on the album. So
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: so they're making while they're making Loveless, they stop and
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: make these two EPs and uh the kind of I
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: don't know, experiment and side things and and Glider comes
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: out and that's probably the best time ever. But Soon
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: was a It was a really big hit and was
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: really celebrated, and they had a video for it that
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: was really good and distinguished them. No one had laid
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: guitars over drums over a beat like this, and it's
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: just an utterly unique track. Uh, it doesn't sound like
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: anything else. And Uh. Then they they did the tremblo EP,
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: which is really it's hard to set here for And
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: this is kind of interesting, is that shields up. He
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: went and listened to every tape they sent out promotional
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: tape for the tremblo Ep, because you want to make
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: sure they were they were done correctly, and because people
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: did call on and said, my tape is warped and
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: they couldn't. They couldn't it would it was mixed differently
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: what they were used to. And even the head of
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: the the UH the labels like Kevin, my tape is
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: a warp saying wrong with it, and he's like, no,
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: it's fine. He's like, no, I'm sure it's warped. He's
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: like no, no, He's like Kevin's like I can't deal
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: with this. And so they he took every single tape.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: He said, that's promotional and that's where the videos come in.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: They're kind of give you visual cues as to what's
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: going on. They made some videos in ninety and ninety
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: one for two of the songs I'm Loveless and Uh,
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: two songs from the Peas and UH, and they're important
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: visual cues for for a lot of for needed to
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: follow the sounds kind of, I'm not mixed, and he
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: doesn't just put the vocal out in front of the
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: guitar front. It makes you taking the full track, So
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: he's not going to make things simple for you in
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: a way. But it's it's it's it's much more of
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: a blended like a painting or something. He's not separating
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: everything out.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting you said that because when I listened
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: to the music, especially on Loveless, I'm thinking maybe there's
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: something wrong with the person who uploaded it to YouTube,
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: because it's like, I think it's all in mono. You know,
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: that's right, that's what he wanted. He wanted most most
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: of it to be a mono. What did he say
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: about that?
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he likes very Uh he's kind of he doesn't
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: really think of stereo much. He thinks we have we
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: have two mono ears. That's one of his quotes. And uh,
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: he doesn't. He think it's really weak to pan the guitars,
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: and almost every track of Levels is just one guitar.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Even though it's a massive sound, it's done really dry upfront.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: There's a couple so there's one song with seven acoustic
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: guitars panned across, but other than that, most every song
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: is one main guitar sound, and then there's maybe a
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: second guitar to fill in a little filling all the things.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: But like there's one guitar that's really crazy or something.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: He's using two different amps facing each other with a
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: mic between.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: One of the songs. The only shallow what he did
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: was he dropped a mic in between two amps. And
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: there's a video for this that that works really well
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: for only shallow. It's worth seeing because it helps you
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: follow along. And it has two different tremolo rates on
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: the on the speakers for the mic, so you're getting
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: the strange sound for the chorus, and then you put
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: it into a sampler and he flips it over and
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: he does there's some other things with it, and then
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: the the verses are more straightforward and that's just kind
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: of a thing. And then when you're the chorus, it
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: just goes into this. It's the really crazy sounds.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't I can't decipher what where's the guitar
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: and what's is there some keys in there? Since I'm
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: not sure there's no there's no that's all guitar, all guitar.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: That's all guitar. Yeah, yeah, that's all guitar. And when
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: they play it live they might use a couple of
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: sequence parts, but that's that's all one guitar part. I
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: mean he might have like double he might have done
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: it twice, like you know, like used it twice or something,
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: but it's fundamentally one guitar performance. He played the guitar
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: one time, and he might over four you might down
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: four amps, and so you get weird phasing stuff. And
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: then he has the tremble alarm in his hand and
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: all the strings going slightly differently the way they change,
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: and it's making a physical motion, so you're getting the
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: strange warped sounds instead of warping you know things like
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: I said, like individual strings, he's using the thing to
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: warp chords, and the whole song is warped. And so
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: and same with the other one of the other videos,
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: the YEARNS one which was the leadoff truck on tremolo,
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: and the whole thing just sounds. So people thought my
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: tape is messed up. It just sounds warped the whole thing.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: It's hard to get to find your way it's on
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: the first he doesn't mix the way you're used to.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: But once you get your bearings, he knows exactly what
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: he's doing. And once you get the melody, hear the
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: melody and you're properly you know, is the reason he
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: has the test of following and all these other all
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: these engineers, and you know, all these people think he's,
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: you know, so talented because they hear what he's doing.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: I would love to hear the isolated tracks. Then again, yeah,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: how much of this is just him recording all on
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: one track at the same time or is it several
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: several tracks separately put together.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: I mean there's uh, you know, to hear those when
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: has a lot of synths in it and stuff little
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: synth parts, but the guitar is one part, and you
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: can't tell where it's a point of origin is.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: So you can't split it up. You can't find the.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: You can't find the point of attack or anything. It's
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: very strange, and but it's.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: A guitar and I love this stuff. This stuff is fascinating.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: So the videos are help of that, But you want
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: to also hear it on a proper stereo two. But
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: it'll help lead you in and You'll find your a
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: melody and everything, and just the year A couple of
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: times they had oriented with this later stuff from like
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: nineteen ninety on.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: And then uh.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: So the album came out, that Loveless album finally came
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: out the same week as Nirvana's never Mind, and uh
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: they had put out let's say four repe and two
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: albums and Creation and they had taken so long and
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: they weren't worth the hassle to the to them anymore.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: They weren't going to make back their money, they weren't
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: gonna right away, and it was just it was just
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: a headache for the people at the label, Alan McGee
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: in particular, and uh, I mean and Dick. There's two
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: main people at the small label Creation that would become huge.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: They signed Oasis eventually, and because because Alan McGee is
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: a great a and r man, I mean, the reason
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: he found my buddy Valanceig and Jess and Mary Jane
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: and uh who else a couple other well in British bands.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know if American bands are so familiar with
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Oasis never broke that big here, but they're they're, you know,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: until millions and millions of records in the UK and
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: decent amount here, so uh Sony eventually bought the company
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: for thirty three million dollars or something in the end.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: But so they they were dropped by Creation after Levels
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: was finished. But you know, they they could have dropped
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: them before that, not let them finish the album. The
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: two owners and mortgage their house houses that to keep
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: the La label afloat for a while. And there's a
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: there's a movie about by the same people that made
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Train Spotting about called Creation Stories about the about the
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: the journey of the label, and they were at some
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: point they were thinking of just stopping Kevin, just dropping
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: him and cutting him off, and Love Us wouldn't have
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: been finished, but they saw it through because the label
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: started to make good music. But they dropped him after
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: it was done, and then the band went on tour
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: and then well actually after they got dropped. When Kevin
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: Shield woke up the next day, ten labels called wanted
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: to sign him. And by the end of ninety ninety
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: two the same yea got dropt. He had a huge
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: deal with Ireland.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: We were thinking we're going to get another album quickly,
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: but not the case right What led to their breakup?
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: No one knew the contours of this part. What happened
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: to Ireland until now, I don't think because I did
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: an interview with the people at Ireland. Mark Moreau was
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: hand picked. Chris Blackwell found an Island. You know, he's
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: the one who made reggae music what we know it today.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: He signed Bob Marley. He this very interesting background Chris
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Blackwell and ude biography. Island started from nothing and more
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: of the you know, huge labels like Warner or Atlantic
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: or whatever. And you know, he did Bob Marley and
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: U two and a million other bands, you know, and
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: Chris Blackwell personally as it became less personal the music.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety Chris Blackwell chose Mark Moreau, who had
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: a great ten year run. He signed PG, Harvey, Tricky,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: Let's Seytereum CS, the Cranberry's people know in America. He
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: had a great run. The only thing it didn't work
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: out so well was Kevin Shields, and they gave him
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: a lot of time, a lot of money, and they
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: eventually cut him off. He signed from ninety two to
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: ninety seven and they cut him off in ninety seven money,
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: but he was still under contract till the end of
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: two thousand and one. I think they finally let him go,
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: you know, they didn't have to, and then he uh,
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: he was kind of in a bad place for a
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: lot of reasons.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there were stories that he had become a recluse,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: that he had a meltdown. What did happen to him
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: after he parted ways with Island Records? And then how
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: was he able to get back on his feet thanks
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: to Is it a book called hypnagogia hypnagosia?
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he is a it's a really hypnogosia. Yeah, he
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: has a it's a it's it's a state we go
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: through when we go from being awake to going to sleep.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: We all go through it. And so there's one book
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: in English about it, and he found that and helped
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: him with a sanity. And if you go on the
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: internet right now, the look of hypnagogic or hypnagosia or whatever,
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: let's see a million studies on it, I T or anywhere.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: It's a very creative state. When you're aroused from that state,
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: people make different connections and you're not thinking linearly. And
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: it goes back to like the writer Coleridge or a
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: Kouba Khan Tesla Edison. All these people knew how to
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: harness this, and they would wake themselves up as they
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: were falling asleep. They all different techniques for rousing themselves
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: while they're falling asleep. And to Dolly is another one.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: So this is a known technique for being being creative
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: and shields when you were.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: So you'll find a way to do that. And then
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: once you're up, there's a short period of time where
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: you want to make sure.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: You it's more he's a little different. That's that's the
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: history of it. He kind of can kind of like
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: I think he can kind of just bring it on.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: Like first they would just stay up for they would
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: stay up for twenty three hours and wait till they
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: got to that state. They would kind of get into
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: that a few weird state by just staying up for
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: a really long time. And then they would sleep for
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: an hour and then keep recording and another day and
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: then sleep for an hour or two, and so they
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: would stay in this fugue state, weird state. And that's
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: so they would do a lot of stuff and what
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: comes out, Yeah, and uh, I mean it's it's there
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: were shorter periods early on, and then you know it's
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: there's no one thing exactly at one time, but he
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: definitely could bring it on to some degree. And if
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: you hear music in that state, it's a very different
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: than hearing it like on marijuana. It's even more immersive
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: and interesting, and it really it's a very h You
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: really hear the whole thing, the whole sound of music
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: beautifully if you if you if you're in the right
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: state and you listen stuff as you're falling asleep, you
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: can catch yourself at the right moment and stay awake.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: You'll you'll hear things differently without you'll take everything in
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: without drugs or anything. So he compares with the pot,
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: but he says he likes this better. But it kind
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: of got away from him because he could kind of
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: induce it well, and he was smoking a lot of pot.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: And I think he went to a bad place.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: Was he a recluse? Did he have a meltdown? What
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: happened to him?
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: So, like two of the band members left in ninety
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: five because they had been signed to Island for like
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: since the end of ninety two and tried to build
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: their own studio and that had taken a long time.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: They lost momentum and they weren't really good. You wanted
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: to do this drum and bassed project, layering guitars over
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: drum and bass. But it's more oblique than that. He
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: doesn't just layer things over. It has to be, you know,
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: something sophisticated and inspired. The song Soon is a good
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: example of how he did a house rhythm sort of
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: with guitars, but it's inspired and unique. And so they
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: were trying to do this project with drum and bass,
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: and they had all these problems with the studio and
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: then his mental health and two of the members left
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: in ninety five. In ninety seven, he still hadn't given
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: them anything, even though he'd recorded maybe a couple albums.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: He wasn't sure about if it was good or not,
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: or if he liked it, and he didn't think it
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: was hold up, and they cut him off in ninety
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: seven and he was still under contract and he made
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: and then the final member, Belinda, left and he thinks
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: of her.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: As like they were a couple, right.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And there were a couple of this whole ten
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: years from from like late eighty seven to ninety seven,
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: and he considers her and it attracts the relationship with
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: these albums which makes them really interesting too. There was
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: really a lot of intimacy and emotions and loveless about
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: you know, things you can't really express, different feelings you
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: have that you you can't say in words, and you
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: know about you know, regrets and incriminations and love and
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: just all different human expressions that you can't just say
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: in simple words. So music is a good place for them,
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: you know, And and it charged their relationship. These everything
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: from like eighty eighty eight to ninety seven, and they
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: were so in ninety seven Island cuts them off. They
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: do do some other recording in ninety seven, but that
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: doesn't come out until twenty thirteen, but that does end
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: that ten year period, so nothing comes out in ninety seven.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: It doesn't give it was iling two songs. They give
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: him about a million dollars maybe in today's money over
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: those over the four or five years. DA I'm signed
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: and because they really understood how talented he was, but
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: it was just just it's just the worst time it
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: is life. So he got vibe doing remixes and and
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: he joined another band, Primal Scream, as a kind of member,
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: and you know, he got money from publishing, and so
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: he didn't have trouble getting by or anything. But he
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: wasn't making his own music and he started to get rehabilitated.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: Around two people came into his life. One guy's Brian Reitzel,
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: who did Sofia Coppele's soundtracks, and he was brought in
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: early for the movie Lost in Translation, which she got
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: an Academy Award for that for the screenplay. He was
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: brought in before they shot anything to get ideas and
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: to you know, they usually don't bring in the soundtrack
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: people until after the movie was shot. You know, see
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: much budgets left over. He was brought on before anything
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: was shot. And so he played a significant role in
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: that movie. And it's a vibe and he has four
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: original things on that at four original new songs on soundtrack.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: And Brian Ritesill had all his patients to make three
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: trips to England to hang out in the studio with him.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: Nothing happened. So like the third trip, one night, Kevin
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: Chill spent eight hours equalizing his guitar when one day
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: he gives Brian rightail gives an example eight hours and
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: and like you know, and he'd have to go there
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: for a week at a time, and Kevin shield hadn't
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: poke pots, they'd be in the same place. And Kevin
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: hill'smoking a lot of pot.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: Then and.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: And uh so they start the night usually and then
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: they've finished in the morning. But nothing eve Ben done
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: in the first two or three visits. And one of
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: the last visits that like, it's it's in the early
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: in the morning and the day is supposed to be over,
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: and she was like, okay, Brian, get behind the drums,
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: I'm ready. He just starts playing the song and burn
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: rightail play, you know, plays along and that that first
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: take is what is on is on the soundtrack called
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: City Girl, and that's played at the end of the
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: movie and and the three other really delicate pieces are
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: part of that. But you know, it just all of
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: a sudden came together. That's what happens with him. You know,
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: everything has to a line, right, and so Rightel was
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: just shocked, just all of a sudden, he's just like
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: he says, you know, she'll just tells him get by
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: on the drump thing and he just has to start playing.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: And this whole time is not pressuring Kevin. He's you know,
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: it's you don't have the guilt of anyone but me
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: and Sofia Coppola, you know, we'll just see what happens,
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: because they really respect him and just want them they
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: want they want to both rehabilitate him, and it would
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: like some music for the movie. But Brine Rachel is
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: a personal stake in this. And and you know, I
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: told people, told him, you're not going to get any
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: music out of him. You know, it's been since like
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: ninety two, and he put on any music. But he
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: ends up getting like five it's four News and there's
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: three other recorded that haven't been released, so that's helped.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: That helped get back on track. And then he does
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: another project with Patty Smith, who never meets him but
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: just talks to him once and she heard the album
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: Loveless and she just thought, I have something in common
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: with this guy. And he they do these shows. It's
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: her reading her poem about her friend and photographer, uh,
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: what's his name, Maplethorpe. That was Robert Maplethorpe was a
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: good friend of hers, and she wrote a poem about
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: him and shields his life. It's just her and Shields
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: and he's on a sofa in the back of her
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: playing the guitar, doing improvising behind her, and that was
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: recorded twice and that helped inspire him. And then that
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: was in two thousand and five. In twousand and six,
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: he was also playing with the Dam Primal Scream. He
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: stops everything else and he turns his attention back to
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: my buddy Valentine. I was also going to getting offers
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: now like two thousand and seven to play live because
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: the albums are reverberated throughout the community, and they get
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: a million dollar offer to play Cicello two thousand and eight.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: But they're not ready, but these people are ready to
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: give them money to buy equipment. The guy who runs
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: this festival called All Tomorrow's Parties, which was a really
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: good festival. It was really curiated really well, like a
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: mixtape or something of like just the best band you
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: could want. It wasn't completely sustainable because it wasn't always
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: the most popular bands. It was really good bands. And
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: this guy who started All Tomorrow's Parties, he invests he
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: has healed about six hundred thousand dollars. It's only that
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: to get all the equipment they need to really pull
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: off the songs correctly. He wasn't always happy with the
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: last tour ninety two wasn't They didn't have the right
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: equipment to do everything right. So now they do a
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: reunion tour eighty nine. They remaster everything for CD and
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: do a really good job of that, and they finally
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: he puts some stuff they recorded, all this stuff they
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: recorded in ninety six, ninety seven he puts. He finally
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: breaks he had recorded bits and pieces and he puts
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: that together and puts out a new album twenty thirteen.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: It's been twenty one years since their last album, so
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: people waiting. He kept saying, oh yeah, album's coming. He's
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: saying this ninety six, ninety seven, ninety eight, ninety nine,
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: twenty thirteen. He finally releases it, and people are pissed
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: off and just like, you know, why are we taking
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: some punk? But he had gone through real problems and
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: you know, nothing like this ever happened again.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: Hey, guys, thanks so much for checking out the book
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: Down Rock podcast. If you've just found the podcast, welcome.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: If you've been listening, thank you so much for your support,
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: and make sure you tell a friend, a family member,
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: share on social media and let people know about Booked
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: on Rock. And if you do like the podcast, make
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: sure you subscribe, give a five star review. Wherever you
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: listen to the Booked on Rock podcast, We're on Amazon, Apple, iHeart, Spotify, Spreaker,
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: tune in in on YouTube music. You can check out
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: the full episodes on video, along with video highlights from
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: to the show. He said that the book Hit Negosia
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: helped him get back on his feet. So was that
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: just like it helped him to understand he.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: Had to go through this process to understand what was
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: how what his reality was. And he talks about you
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: know who to have these strange experiences and they couldn't
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: tell they seemed so real but they weren't, and he
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: couldn't always tell them. The book kind of talks about
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: different kinds of sleep and different states and.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: Give him a better understanding of himself, get some control
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: over what he's thinking.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: And I think he had to go through a certain
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: process of like you know, like Leonard Kong went and
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: lived on a Buddhist monastery for like four or five years,
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: and uh, he had to go through something like that
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: to like understand his reality and and figure things out.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: And you know, they've been pretty busy ever since. He
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: and the band right everything.
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: Then instance he got these two people did play a
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: key role. I think Brian Reitzel takes take the most credit,
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: and Patty Smith also. They both got him back on
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: track and I think gave him confidence. And I don't
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: think it was an I think it's really bad place.
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: I mean for a couple of years there. I mean,
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: even though he wasn't broke or anything, he wasn't making
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: his music. He did a lot of red. He did
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: did end up doing interesting stuff. The remixes he did
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: are and you got. He did work for a much
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: different people in different collaborations, and that makes up a
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: bunch of You can make a bunch of CDs out
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: of that, which I I adopted in the book, and
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: everything on my website and all more stuff up soon
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: and just stuff. Only he could have done remixes of
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: Yo La Tengo or Curve who else. It's all this
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: interesting stuff. But lost translation stuff is really beautiful. He's
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: just it just doesn't sound like anything else. But he
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: wants to make his personal music, my bloody balance and music.
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: So they toured to two thousand and eight two thousand
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: and nine, they're totally independent. Now they pay back the
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: money it was loan to them, and twenty thirteen they
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: released the album themselves, their third album, and they're good monetarily.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: Then he spends a bunch of money remastering the first
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: two albums to make them sure analog because he didn't
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: know enough about the process. And it's not just analog
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: like you see from some of these record companies like Oh,
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know sell these expensive remasters acoustic sounds maybe
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: as one of them. They say they think the analog tape,
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: but it's not the same because they use digital equipment
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: to master it. He made the albums as if it
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: were nineteen seventy five. Here you mastered them, so you
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: get these transients on your body and they just have
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: a different feel to them, and you can get them
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: directly from the band. The cheapest one to get that
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: the band cells or domino cells is the best one
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: to get because it's fully analog, not AAA, which is
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: the thing you used to see on things or you
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: know ada that code used to see. It's like fully analog,
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: as in like as if it before digital existed, and
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: they sound they sound beautiful and he did that. By
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: twenty eighteen that came out, and then since then he's
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: just saying, I'm gonna put out I have to proba
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: these final albums to kind of you know CLR thing,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: and so he says he's gonna PUTU at least two albums,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: and so may Peas and he was making it grow
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: and grow, and so they just they've they've put some
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: they've put the six shows they have and then that
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: are at the end of this year, and then there's
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: one show now at the end of twenty twenty six,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: and I'm thinking they're going to fill in that all
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: those dates over this next year touring the world.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, because yeah, I'm looking at the website here. Yeah,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: they got the Dublin. Well, here's here's what they have.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: November twenty second, Dublin that sold out, November twenty fourth,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: Manchester sold out, November twenty fifth, Oval Arena and Wembley, London.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: November twenty seventh, Oval Hydro, Glasgow. February third, they're in Osaka,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: so they're gonna do some shows in Japan. February third, fourth, sixth,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: and ninth, all in Tokyo or No I'm sorry in
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: Osaka and Tokyo, but they don't have another show listed there.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: But you said there's another one they do, Yeah.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: They do. I definitely have one more. It's in Spain
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: maybe or something I can't remember. I'm positive there's another
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: show now at the end of twenty twenty six. It's
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: not a rumors, it's listed, okay, and I'm sorry I
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: can't remember it. Just it happened a couple of weeks ago.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: So the idea is, and they have a really great show.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: Now everything's dialed in on a light show, and it
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: sounds amazing. You saw them in ninety two, it's it's
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: nothing like that. It's much more. There's so much more
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: control and they need that and they make a you
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: know you think so sound in this profound way. And
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: so the shows are this unique thing to him. And
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: he used to end it with a song that was
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: like forty minutes long in nineteen ninety two, in two
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: thousand and eight, and they would do this one song
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: for forty minutes of this noise thing and get people
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: to kind of understand music and sound better. And I
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: don't know if they do that as long now, but
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: he really takes it seriously, the live show and the sound.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: He really wants to present it the sounds well, and
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: he can because there they come from his playing guitar,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: probably physically plays the guitar through. You know, there's nothing.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of most of the stuff can be
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: reproduced live, the vast majority of the stuff. So not
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: exactly the same, but pretty similar.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if somebody wants to listen to their music, and
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: particularly Loveless in the album that came before Loveless, Isn't Anything,
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: Isn't Anything? They are not on streaming services. And I'm
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: just looking here because I was telling you this just
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: before we started recording, and it appears as if there's
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: some kind of an issue that the band pulled it
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: or Kevin himself.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: Do you see there? Do you see the twenty thirteen
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: MBV album. It's a blue album?
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: It is the blue album? Is there? And you can
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: stream that?
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's a that's a really mellow album. A good
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: way to get into them, to hear them. Actually, you could.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: Get Isn't Anything and Loveless around YouTube if you need.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: You could obviously, you know, support the band and go
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: out and buy the album the CD. What have you
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: but yeah, there seems to be some kind of contractual
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: issue going on right now.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: I wonder if they Yeah, I wonder if that's about.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: It's too bad. Hopefully it'll go back up there, because
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: Loveless is just an absolutely phenomenal piece of work and
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: I can't see.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you really can get I mean, if you end
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: up liking the blue album, uh it it's just called MBV.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: If you like the first eight songs are really pretty,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: and then he gets into some more dynamics stuff the
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: last two songs, and the more you learn about them,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: the more interesting they are, and the more you can
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: under the more you read about them can have some
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: context on them. Even I had trouble with the very
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: last song until my friend explained it to me a
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: little more and showed me where the melody was and
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: what they were doing, and was a musician friend of mine.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: He showed me where the melody was and everything and
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: oriented me and and so I like that song now
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: a lot. But the first eight songs are really great
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: on that really pretty stuff, and and that's a as
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: good way as anything to hear about them, some of
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: them from the subtle things they're doing.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: We'll get back to the show, but first I want
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: to tell you about an exclusive deal for Booked on Rock.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: Listeners get fifteen percent off any purchase at old glory
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: dot com over three hundred thousand officially licensed items covering music, sports, entertainment,
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  Speaker 1: many more. Go to old glory dot com. Make sure
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: to use the promo code Booked on Rock. Also find
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: a link in this episode show notes, or just go
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: to Booked on Rock dot com and click on my Deals. Well,
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: you did a fantastic job with the book, Andrew talking
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: to somebody who was not familiar with the band, so
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: being able to read the book help me understand Kevin
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: Shields the band, and then listening to the music after
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: reading the book, it really gave it a whole new perspective.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: So when I'm listening to it, I'm thinking about all
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: these stories from the book and his approach and just
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: the way his mind works. It's to me, it's just
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: an absolutely fascinating story. Turn my head into sound. A
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: history of Kevin Shields and my bloody Valentine and it
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: is out now, right, people can get the book in
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: the UK.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: It's out now. I think the electronic version is out
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: in sixteenth, let's see, and December second the physical book
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: will be in America. But on the sixteenth this month
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: October it'll be uh in the UK. And some reason
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: they had to put a December second the physical book
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: in America.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: So did the electronic version in a couple of days in.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: Sixteenth through job on Press, Yeah, okay, good good press. Okay,
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: So look for it. You can check online, but you
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: can also know you mentioned your website, so where can
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: people go to see check out more about you Andrew
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: and the band.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: There's going a lot more stuff on. There's some there's
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: some there's some history and stuff online and just describe
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: the book that it's a narrative book, is not a
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: collection of quotes or anything. There'll be more for my website.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: It's called turn my Head into sound dot com. Okay,
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: and uh, And that there's a discography and a chronological
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: chronological thing there that will give you some context for
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: the band and when things came out, and that helps
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: explain what's going on and when things came out. That'll
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: give you an outline of things both for albums of
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: all their releases and what happened a timeline, So that's
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: up now and more stuff up now up later within
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: a couple of days hopefully, so that that's a good
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: way to see what came out.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: When turn my head into sound dot com, I'll put
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: the link up in the show notes. People can just
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: click on the link and go right there. So, Andrew Pair,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: thanks so much, man. This was great. This is one
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: of the one of the most fascinating stories. Did I've read.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: I've read a lot of books, so this was a great.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks a lot. I had two brilliant editors, so
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: I was lucky. And uh yeah, I like you saw.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: I'm glad you cover these all these books. I'm the artists.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: I'm listening to the len Thing woman with the really
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: intend Lenden books, and yeah, why do you think deep
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: dives on stuff? It's really cool, really.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: Great got to do the deep dive, especially with these
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: types of books. Thanks so much, man, I appreciate it.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: Thank you. That's it. It's in the books.