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115 | Scared of IRS Audits? What Every Woman Needs to Know About Tax Debt, Liens & Taking Back Control (with Stephen Weisberg) · Your Money, Your Rules | Financial Mastery, Wealth Mindset, Leadership Principles, Intuitive Decision-Making, Human Design

• 0:00
  Stephen Weisberg: So on the audit side, and especially with what's going on right now, the percentage is low.
• 0:07
  Erin Gray: What's low Is low like 10% of total tax returns or like, I think, like 5% Okay, 5%.
• 0:14
  Erin Gray: Do you want to create a system to stop avoiding your money?
• 0:18
  Erin Gray: Maybe you're feeling guilt and shame when it comes to your finances.
• 0:22
  Erin Gray: Welcome to your Money, your Rules, and shame when it comes to your finances.
• 0:27
  Erin Gray: Welcome to your Money, your Rules.
• 0:28
  Erin Gray: I'm Erin, a former certified financial planner and CFO, and yet I used to avoid my money and had fear, no matter how much we had.
• 0:34
  Erin Gray: I can't wait to teach you how I overcame my money avoidance and started consistently managing my finances in a really simple way.
• 0:41
  Erin Gray: It's time to get comfortable with money.
• 0:44
  Erin Gray: Before we dive into this episode, I want to invite you to join me for a one-on-one master your money coaching session In this powerful hour.
• 0:52
  Erin Gray: Together, we are going to create a plan that not only makes sense on paper, but also actually feels right in your body, a plan that supports your goals, honors your energy and really helps you feel safe and clear and in control of your finances.
• 1:10
  Erin Gray: If you're ready to shift your relationship with money and step into the freedom and the ease that you have been craving, I invite you to book a session with me by heading over to my website, generatealifewelllivecom, and scheduling your session.
• 1:23
  Erin Gray: I'm looking forward to supporting you along your journey.
• 1:28
  Erin Gray: Now let's get into today's episode On the podcast.
• 1:31
  Erin Gray: Today, I am joined by Steven Weisberg, who is the founder and lead attorney of the W Tax Group.
• 1:38
  Erin Gray: With over a decade of experience, steven helps individuals, businesses and business owners across the country resolve tax debt audits and IRS disputes.
• 1:49
  Erin Gray: His client-first approach begins with a detailed tax debt analysis, offering complete transparency and customized strategies for each client, and my intention with every episode is to help you feel more educated, empowered and emotionally safe when it comes to your finances, even in those areas that feel really intimidating.
• 2:10
  Erin Gray: So I hope you enjoy this episode, you learn about audits, tax liens, and thank you for listening and spending your time with us.
• 2:18
  Erin Gray: Thanks, stephen, for coming on the podcast and sharing your knowledge with us.
• 2:21
  Erin Gray: I'm excited that you're here.
• 2:23
  Stephen Weisberg: Thanks, thanks for having me.
• 2:24
  Stephen Weisberg: I'm glad to be here.
• 2:26
  Erin Gray: So tell me, how does one get into tax lien and doing what you do?
• 2:32
  Stephen Weisberg: So I was actually a corporate bankruptcy attorney and I was doing a lot of work.
• 2:38
  Stephen Weisberg: So we're out of Detroit, it was 2008.
• 2:43
  Stephen Weisberg: Things weren't going real well in the country, but especially in Detroit.
• 2:48
  Stephen Weisberg: So you know corporate bankruptcy was, you know what I fell into there and you know it's good work.
• 2:54
  Stephen Weisberg: I actually like being a bankruptcy attorney.
• 2:57
  Stephen Weisberg: But you know we were representing pretty large suppliers, auto suppliers, and you know they have a lot of creditors that they need to pay.
• 3:06
  Stephen Weisberg: The big creditors, you know, of course, were the big three, you know Chrysler, general Motors and Ford, and they had secured loans.
• 3:15
  Stephen Weisberg: So, you know, within the bankruptcy context, they would get paid basically in full, at least in these experiences.
• 3:24
  Stephen Weisberg: And then there will be all these mom and pop, you know little vendors who maybe gave them some cloth or you know, I guess that was a ridiculous example, but you know something like that, some small things, and they had unsecured claims and they'd get paid, you know, one to two cents on the dollar, while, like I said, the car company gave them paid in full.
• 3:47
  Stephen Weisberg: And we'd be working on these cases for a year and then we'd represent the trust that would, you know, sell all the assets and try to bring as much income into the trust so they could pay creditors.
• 4:03
  Stephen Weisberg: And again, I just felt like I was working for the car companies to get them all the money that they could get and they get paid in full, and everyone else, which is kind of the fabric of the community, wasn't getting paid anything.
• 4:15
  Stephen Weisberg: So, to make a long story short or to just give you a sense of what I felt, I just felt like that's not what I wanted to do.
• 4:22
  Stephen Weisberg: Now.
• 4:22
  Stephen Weisberg: I wanted to be more present in, like, the everyday circumstances of taxpayer I shouldn't say taxpayers of people at the time who you know were in financial hardships and dealing with issues financially, and I wanted to be able to see it on their faces every day when I was making a difference and where I could make a difference, and I didn't know where that meant.
• 4:44
  Stephen Weisberg: But ultimately I ended up in tax debt resolution because I had an attorney that I knew who was already working in tax debt resolution and had the expertise, and I started working with him, and so the bottom line is I fell into it, but it fell into what I wanted to do the bottom line is I fell into it, but it was.
• 5:07
  Erin Gray: it fell into what I wanted to do.
• 5:08
  Erin Gray: Yeah, it's interesting because back when my construction days, you know, we had to file a lot of liens as well.
• 5:13
  Erin Gray: And, if you didn't know, that was one of the things that I really got really comfortable with is when we had a really good construction attorney and I understood the way that the laws worked and I learned a lot from her.
• 5:22
  Erin Gray: And you know, you have to understand how the laws work and the timing and the filing and all of that and a lot of like what you're referring to.
• 5:29
  Erin Gray: I'm assuming a lot of mom and pop businesses don't pay attention to that stuff.
• 5:34
  Erin Gray: So you've got these big corporations that are knowledgeable.
• 5:37
  Erin Gray: You have staff attorneys, they know how it works, so they're going to be the first, you know, to the trough to claim what they you know are due.
• 5:45
  Erin Gray: And if you don't know the way that the law works or timing and filing, then, like you say, then a lot of times these sweet business owners are left out.
• 5:56
  Erin Gray: You know high and dry, because you number one, you don't know, and you're probably not working closely with an attorney on a consistent basis to teach you this to be involved, so that you are protecting yourself from that, from that state yeah, I mean on the tax debt side, you know it's just more so.
• 6:15
  Stephen Weisberg: Well, it is exactly what you said, whereas you don't know what you don't know.
• 6:18
  Stephen Weisberg: So what you know once you owe the tax debt.
• 6:21
  Stephen Weisberg: There's a lot of concern, obviously from from people who are mostly people who are self-employed with small businesses.
• 6:29
  Stephen Weisberg: They don't know what to do.
• 6:32
  Stephen Weisberg: They kind of stick their head in the sand and pretend it's not happening and then it continues to spiral, spiral, spiral, and then maybe some of them say, oh well, I'll just call the IRS myself, and that never ends.
• 6:42
  Stephen Weisberg: Well, again, you don't know what you don't know.
• 6:45
  Stephen Weisberg: The IRS knows what you don't know and they know very well what they do know.
• 6:49
  Stephen Weisberg: You know there's an entire internal revenue manual that is instructing them about what they are allowed to do, what they can't do, how this process works, how they can get most money as possible in the door.
• 7:01
  Stephen Weisberg: And as a taxpayer, you don't know that.
• 7:07
  Stephen Weisberg: So you know you can get yourself in some pretty bad situations when you don't have representation and especially when you've waited till the last minute and you might have a levy where you know they've levied your bank account or, if you're, you know, a W-2 wage earner, they've garnished your wages.
• 7:23
  Stephen Weisberg: But even self-employed, they can garnish the income that's coming into you from third parties.
• 7:28
  Stephen Weisberg: So bottom line is there's a lot of waiting, there's a lot of procrastination, there's a lot of anxiety and fear, and you know it all kind of comes to a head.
• 7:39
  Erin Gray: Yeah, so I want to dive into two different parts, because what you do is there's two different parts, right, like there's the audit piece and then there's also like the tax lien or the levy.
• 7:46
  Erin Gray: Um, and I want to dive into that because that is a concern that I hear from, uh, business owners, and here we go back to like you don't know what you don't know, and part of this podcast is to educate and to inform, and I think the more than we are informed and also what you stated is, you know when we are in fear, when we are in panic, when we that those emotions drive certain reaction or actions versus empowered, confident and informed.
• 8:11
  Erin Gray: So will you talk a little bit about because that is a fear that a lot of women have shared of like I'm afraid of getting audited.
• 8:16
  Erin Gray: So, like, break down, like what is the actual percentage of people that actually get audited?
• 8:27
  Stephen Weisberg: actually get audited if that's possible.
• 8:28
  Stephen Weisberg: So on the audit side, and especially with what's going on right now, the percentage is low.
• 8:31
  Erin Gray: What's low Is low like 10% of total tax returns or like.
• 8:35
  Stephen Weisberg: I think like 5%.
• 8:37
  Erin Gray: Okay 5%.
• 8:39
  Stephen Weisberg: So you know, especially if you're self-employed, you know there's certain things that kind of catch the IRS and give them kind of you know, that red flag.
• 8:51
  Stephen Weisberg: A lot of it has to do with driving and the mileage that you take.
• 8:56
  Stephen Weisberg: You know, if you have a ton of mileage that you're taking and you're in a profession where you don't really need to be traveling, you know the IRS obviously takes that and says you know what's going on here.
• 9:06
  Stephen Weisberg: Also, for whatever reason, with the home office deduction, the IRS looks into that very closely to make sure you're not taking too much, because you're only supposed to be taking the amount of you know.
• 9:18
  Stephen Weisberg: Let's say you're talking about your heating bill, you're only supposed to take that room that you're using and you have to be using that room specifically for working in the home office.
• 9:28
  Stephen Weisberg: So that's one that they look at, you know, very closely.
• 9:32
  Stephen Weisberg: Those are two that I see people getting tripped up a lot in.
• 9:35
  Erin Gray: Okay.
• 9:35
  Erin Gray: So, and it's not from a place of don't do it Cause I think people hear that and they think, oh, I don't want to do it.
• 9:41
  Erin Gray: It's not don't do it, it's just, obviously, work with your CPA or your enrolled agent and like, hey, are you know it's, if you've got a 3000 square foot home and your office is 200 square feet, then that's the percentage that you need to be, you know, deducting for home office.
• 9:55
  Erin Gray: Um, okay, and so then tell me, in terms of what do you see most commonly?
• 10:00
  Erin Gray: So that's from the audit side.
• 10:01
  Erin Gray: Now, if you get audited, then you can have either your CPA or your enrolled agent help you with the audit.
• 10:08
  Erin Gray: Do you also help with audits, or is that really as I do in?
• 10:13
  Stephen Weisberg: tax resolution, tax improper assessment.
• 10:18
  Stephen Weisberg: So I have the background a lot in the accounting side.
• 10:28
  Stephen Weisberg: But also it's just different to have a tax attorney and I know the enrolled agents and the CPAs are going to be mad at me, but when you're an attorney you have a different way of going about things.
• 10:38
  Stephen Weisberg: You're more into negotiations, you're more into making sure you get what is owed and you know sometimes it makes sense to have the CPA.
• 10:50
  Stephen Weisberg: You know who has prepared the return, or the tax professional has prepared the return.
• 10:55
  Stephen Weisberg: Actually, always it makes sense to have them come to me and say here, this is what's going on.
• 11:00
  Stephen Weisberg: I can help you through what's been filed, you know what kind of deductions we took, what's being looked at with the audit and then let's work together in terms of fighting this audit.
• 11:11
  Erin Gray: Yeah, so you want to talk then about, when it gets to the point, what creates a tax lien or a tax levy.
• 11:19
  Erin Gray: Let's dive into definition.
• 11:20
  Erin Gray: What is the difference?
• 11:21
  Erin Gray: Is it or is that interchangeable?
• 11:24
  Stephen Weisberg: Yeah, sure.
• 11:24
  Stephen Weisberg: So a tax?
• 11:26
  Stephen Weisberg: We'll just start with the definition A tax lien is.
• 11:29
  Stephen Weisberg: You know where the IRS puts a lien on anything that you own.
• 11:35
  Stephen Weisberg: So whether it's your house, a real property or personal property, you know it could be, you know the couch in your living room or it could be your car.
• 11:44
  Stephen Weisberg: Now, so that means if you try to sell anything, they're not going to do anything with that lien, except for it protects them.
• 11:50
  Stephen Weisberg: So if you're going to try to sell your house and you have equity in your home and you owe just making up numbers, $100,000 and you have equity of, let's just say, $100,000, the IRS is going to take that equity.
• 12:02
  Stephen Weisberg: When you sell, you need to talk to the IRS before that, before the sale, and make sure they'll discharge the lien, because that's the only way to clear title.
• 12:10
  Stephen Weisberg: Right, if you have a lien, the only way to clear title is to get a discharge and the IRS will only discharge if you give them the equity in your home.
• 12:17
  Stephen Weisberg: Now, when it comes to your couch, the IRS is not really going to get involved in that and you can pretty safely go ahead and sell your couch if you wanted to and not have an issue you know for for practical purposes?
• 12:33
  Stephen Weisberg: Um, so that's what a lien is basically the IRS protecting themselves, so that if you are trying to make money on the sale of something, they're going to get paid the equity from that sale?
• 12:45
  Stephen Weisberg: Oh, go ahead.
• 12:46
  Erin Gray: Let me ask one question.
• 12:47
  Erin Gray: So in terms of qualified accounts so like if you have IRAs or 401ks or SEPs, are those protected?
• 12:53
  Erin Gray: Because I always thought that resident like your primary residence, because there's some things I guess obviously not with taxes, but other areas where your primary residence is protected.
• 13:03
  Erin Gray: That might be like from an LLC standpoint, but that's all another topic.
• 13:07
  Erin Gray: So what about your qualified accounts as well?
• 13:11
  Stephen Weisberg: So in terms of property, in terms of real property, personal property, that's all fair game.
• 13:18
  Stephen Weisberg: But in terms of retirement accounts, that more comes under the levy aspect.
• 13:23
  Stephen Weisberg: Okay, like we're talking about different than the lien.
• 13:26
  Stephen Weisberg: So the levy is where the IRS is issuing the levy and saying, basically, we're taking what you own.
• 13:33
  Stephen Weisberg: Basically we're taking what you own in terms, and that usually applies to, like I said, retirement accounts.
• 13:40
  Stephen Weisberg: That usually applies to bank accounts and then wages or third parties who are paying you if you're self-employed.
• 13:46
  Stephen Weisberg: So, but the IRS can go after your retirement accounts, that is fair game, they will go after them.
• 13:55
  Stephen Weisberg: Your retirement account, that is fair game, they will go after them.
• 13:58
  Stephen Weisberg: You know.
• 14:00
  Erin Gray: I think they generally go after the bank accounts Non-qualified first.
• 14:02
  Erin Gray: Yeah, it's easier.
• 14:03
  Stephen Weisberg: Exactly so.
• 14:04
  Stephen Weisberg: That's what they're going to go after first.
• 14:05
  Stephen Weisberg: Now, in terms of those levies that they put into place.
• 14:08
  Stephen Weisberg: It doesn't happen right away, and when you owe taxes, you're going to start getting notices that say you owe the money.
• 14:16
  Stephen Weisberg: Basically the first one, and there's supposed to be five, but there's three main ones.
• 14:22
  Stephen Weisberg: The first one is the Notice 14, which basically says you know you owe us money.
• 14:29
  Stephen Weisberg: But the next one is usually a CP-504 or a CP-503.
• 14:34
  Stephen Weisberg: That's just the letter number, the notice number, and it will say you know you owe us money and we're going to levy your bank account.
• 14:41
  Stephen Weisberg: Sorry, we're going to levy your you know accounts.
• 14:46
  Stephen Weisberg: Yeah, yeah your money.
• 14:47
  Stephen Weisberg: Okay, right, it's very generic, yeah, right now, at that point, when you get that letter, um, they can take your state refund.
• 14:55
  Stephen Weisberg: So if you file a state tax return and then you get a refund, they will take that, but they cannot actually levy your bank account or wages at that point.
• 15:05
  Stephen Weisberg: They're going to say that in that notice, that they can, or that they're going to, and at some point they're able to, but they can't.
• 15:11
  Stephen Weisberg: Based on that notice, they still need to send out a third notice, which is what's really the final notice of intent to levy, and that's the letter number CP90 or LT11.
• 15:24
  Stephen Weisberg: And I think there's a 1058 that they send out as well.
• 15:30
  Stephen Weisberg: It depends on your situation.
• 15:31
  Stephen Weisberg: You'll get one of those At that point.
• 15:34
  Stephen Weisberg: That's the last notice they have to send out before they can do any sort of levies.
• 15:40
  Stephen Weisberg: You have 30 days from that notice to either resolve your tax debt with the IRS or you do have the opportunity to file what's called a CDP appeal.
• 15:51
  Stephen Weisberg: Let's just call it an appeal.
• 15:53
  Stephen Weisberg: You have the ability to appeal that notice and then try to work out a resolution with appeals.
• 15:59
  Stephen Weisberg: But if you don't do that, if you don't either resolve the balance that you owe within the 30 days or file an appeal, then the IRS has the ability to levy bank accounts and garnishment.
• 16:10
  Erin Gray: As you said, that that CP.
• 16:12
  Erin Gray: I have received those when I was with my family's construction business because we had 1099 contractors.
• 16:19
  Erin Gray: I'm, like you said, the CP, and so there have been times where either the social security number didn't match up or there was some forced withholding on our part because they did not.
• 16:30
  Erin Gray: So if you've ever received that, so you could even receive that from a business owner.
• 16:35
  Erin Gray: So if you've ever received that, so you could even receive that from a business owner.
• 16:38
  Erin Gray: If you have had 1099 employees not employees, but 1099 contractors because they have not paid in appropriately with their estimated taxes and you are required to withhold Right.
• 16:48
  Stephen Weisberg: Yeah, different notice.
• 16:49
  Stephen Weisberg: But you're right, cp may be in front of you.
• 16:52
  Stephen Weisberg: So yeah, that's why I ring a bell.
• 16:54
  Erin Gray: Yeah, don't mean to confuse everyone listening, but when you said cp, I'm like, oh, I've seen that, I've seen that one before.
• 16:59
  Erin Gray: I know they're obviously different cp.
• 17:01
  Erin Gray: You know different um notices, but um, okay, so you so basically three, three strikes, if you want to call it.
• 17:10
  Erin Gray: That is like what are chances I should say three chances that you get, and so do most people.
• 17:15
  Erin Gray: Are they in such a fear-based state that they just head in the sand and they don't want to address it because they think it's going to be so big and, yeah, just fear, you know well there, there is certainly a percentage of people that you know fall into that category.
• 17:32
  Stephen Weisberg: Um, they just, they're just putting their head in the sand.
• 17:35
  Stephen Weisberg: They don't know what to do.
• 17:36
  Stephen Weisberg: You've got the IRS, which is basically the largest, most powerful collection agency on the planet.
• 17:42
  Stephen Weisberg: That's what they are.
• 17:43
  Stephen Weisberg: They're there to collect and they have more power than any other entity in the country.
• 17:49
  Stephen Weisberg: So either they're just afraid and they don't do anything and they just wait, and then, let's say, their bank account gets levied and then they call me.
• 17:57
  Stephen Weisberg: Now a lot of people do call when they get that second notice, that CP-504, cp-503, because that notice says, hey, we're going to take your money Right.
• 18:07
  Stephen Weisberg: And so then they get nervous and, like I said, they can't actually do it after you know, right after that notice.
• 18:13
  Stephen Weisberg: But it's starting to get serious and the IRS uses scary language on that notice purposefully, and it has the appropriate responses.
• 18:21
  Stephen Weisberg: People get nervous and it's actually a good thing, because then people can start to resolve those tax issues before that final notice comes out and they're not waiting until they actually can be levied.
• 18:34
  Erin Gray: Yeah, so tell me, how?
• 18:36
  Erin Gray: Does I know that it's a lot of fear based with what the IRS does.
• 18:40
  Erin Gray: So how do they act in an actual either audit and or when you come in to help with the audit or the levy or the lien?
• 18:48
  Erin Gray: How, what is your experience with the IRS?
• 18:53
  Stephen Weisberg: Like in terms of like, are they going to be like super aggressive, super mean, or like yeah?
• 18:59
  Erin Gray: So these are questions that I mean clients and women that I've talked to have had, and I'm like I've never had that experience, so I have no idea.
• 19:05
  Erin Gray: So, it's from a place of pure, pure curiosity.
• 19:08
  Stephen Weisberg: Yeah, you know it depends on who you're dealing with Now, most people.
• 19:13
  Stephen Weisberg: So if you owe a lot of money, maybe have, like you know, five or six returns that haven't been filed, you know you might have a revenue officer assigned to your case and that's a specific person that's assigned to your case that you're going to work with, that you're going to work with.
• 19:28
  Stephen Weisberg: I'm going to set that aside for a minute because, again, those are kind of higher balances.
• 19:32
  Stephen Weisberg: You know more complex, more difficult cases to deal with.
• 19:37
  Stephen Weisberg: But if you owe let's say, $15,000, you're going to be sent to collections, the automated collections unit, and so you don't actually have a specific person assigned to your case.
• 19:48
  Stephen Weisberg: You're going to be calling this collections unit and somebody's going to pick up.
• 19:53
  Stephen Weisberg: You don't know who it's going to be and then if you have to call back, it's going to be a different person.
• 19:58
  Erin Gray: You know, and is this part of the IRS or is this like okay?
• 20:03
  Stephen Weisberg: No yeah, it's not.
• 20:04
  Stephen Weisberg: There is some private collections sometimes that the IRS gets involved.
• 20:07
  Stephen Weisberg: But yes, this ACS unit is an actual unit of the IRS.
• 20:10
  Stephen Weisberg: So you're going to be speaking to different people.
• 20:13
  Stephen Weisberg: Generally well, you very well could get someone that's nice and helpful.
• 20:20
  Stephen Weisberg: There's a lot of times where you're not getting someone who's that helpful.
• 20:24
  Stephen Weisberg: Now, part of it is I hesitate to use it, but part of it is incompetence.
• 20:28
  Stephen Weisberg: Part of it is that they're just not happy and they've been dealing with taxpayers, you know, complaining to them all day.
• 20:37
  Stephen Weisberg: And part of it is, again, they know what they can do.
• 20:41
  Stephen Weisberg: Their whole goal is to get as much money from you as quickly as possible.
• 20:46
  Stephen Weisberg: So they're not going to sit there and, you know, pat your head and say, oh, you can do this or you can do this, and if you do this, then this will happen.
• 20:54
  Stephen Weisberg: This is the best way.
• 20:55
  Stephen Weisberg: They're just going to tell you.
• 20:56
  Stephen Weisberg: You know you need to pay us and this is what you need to pay us.
• 21:00
  Stephen Weisberg: And when you don't know what your other options are, you know it's very easy to be steamrolled and just say, okay, I understand, I have this debt out there.
• 21:09
  Stephen Weisberg: The IRS is telling me I have to pay this.
• 21:11
  Stephen Weisberg: I'm just going to do it because I have to and I'm afraid to bring anything up.
• 21:15
  Stephen Weisberg: And you're afraid to bring anything up because, one, you're dealing with the IRS, but, two, you don't even know what to bring up, why or how.
• 21:27
  Stephen Weisberg: So it's a little bit of all of it.
• 21:29
  Stephen Weisberg: I guess.
• 21:33
  Stephen Weisberg: The main point, though, is they're not on your side.
• 21:34
  Stephen Weisberg: They're not there to necessarily help you.
• 21:35
  Stephen Weisberg: I wouldn't say that they're all out to get you, but they're just not there to necessarily help you.
• 21:38
  Stephen Weisberg: They're there to get money for the IRS.
• 21:41
  Erin Gray: Yeah, so how long does the process take, from when you like if you get a letter, and then when?
• 21:49
  Erin Gray: I guess it depends on if you have a levy or a lien right.
• 21:53
  Erin Gray: That's a different.
• 21:54
  Erin Gray: Those are two different paths to take.
• 21:56
  Erin Gray: But from kind of the start to finish, what roundabout does that look like for someone, once they get a letter, to go through the process and finalize what they have to pay, and then you're on a payment plan or you have to pay in full or something like that?
• 22:10
  Stephen Weisberg: Yeah, yeah, it depends.
• 22:12
  Stephen Weisberg: So if you get, let's say you get your CP504 and then you call me and you say, hey, I'm in trouble, I need some help, it depends on what type of resolution that you qualify for.
• 22:24
  Stephen Weisberg: But if you're going to look for an installment agreement, which would be like a monthly payment plan, whether that means that you're paying off the entire balance over, let's say, six years, which is called a streamlined installment agreement, or you might be able to qualify for what's called a partial pay installment agreement, where you're going to be paying the IRS on a monthly basis but you never end up paying off the total amount of the debt.
• 22:49
  Stephen Weisberg: And then there's also what's called currently non-collectible status, where you don't have to pay anything to the IRS on a monthly basis and collection activity stops, but it's a somewhat temporary status, depending on what your income is.
• 23:03
  Stephen Weisberg: So if your income increases, they'll not kick you out of that status and you'll have to go back to the drawing board.
• 23:09
  Stephen Weisberg: So those are kind of three different options.
• 23:14
  Stephen Weisberg: And, to go back to your original question, it depends a lot on, really, the taxpayer.
• 23:20
  Stephen Weisberg: You know, if I have, when I have all the documentation that I need and all the information I need from the taxpayer to negotiate with the IRS.
• 23:30
  Stephen Weisberg: You know it might take a month at the end of the day.
• 23:32
  Stephen Weisberg: You know, if it's more complicated and I call the IRS and they want more information, you know it might take longer, but they can be done.
• 23:54
  Stephen Weisberg: The resolutions with those types of resolutions can be completed relatively quickly as long as I have the information that I need from the taxpayer.
• 23:59
  Stephen Weisberg: And just one other aspect of this is you know a lot of people probably heard about the offering compromise At least that's what you always hear on the radio and we can talk about that a little further.
• 24:07
  Stephen Weisberg: But like an offer in compromise, you'll file an offer in compromise.
• 24:08
  Stephen Weisberg: You may not hear back for six, seven, eight months, so that's something that's a much longer ordeal that you're dealing with.
• 24:16
  Erin Gray: Okay, two questions that I have then.
• 24:17
  Erin Gray: So as if you, let's say, this were to happen to me, you are my attorney.
• 24:22
  Erin Gray: Am I ever going to be involved with the IRS when we work together, when you and I work together, or is it more so?
• 24:27
  Erin Gray: You are basically the mediator that go between and you are the one that talks to the IRS.
• 24:31
  Erin Gray: You negotiate, you come back to me and then we figure out what the what the IRS has said, and then what we I agree to, or what they agree to, and then that's how it works.
• 24:41
  Stephen Weisberg: Yeah, yeah, and that's a good question because it puts the taxpayers you know, potential clients peace of mind.
• 24:47
  Stephen Weisberg: They don't have to talk to the IRS anymore.
• 24:50
  Stephen Weisberg: You know I will take over all discussions with the IRS.
• 24:53
  Stephen Weisberg: I'm taking over all negotiations, all resolutions.
• 24:56
  Stephen Weisberg: You know you do not have to worry about speaking to the IRS anymore.
• 25:00
  Erin Gray: At that point, Okay, and then when you talked about, or we can dive into, you know the misconceptions of offer and compromise, but of the three different options that you listed, was any of that considered offer and compromise?
• 25:12
  Erin Gray: Or offer and compromise is completely separate than those different three options of payment.
• 25:17
  Stephen Weisberg: Yeah, offer and compromise is completely separate.
• 25:19
  Stephen Weisberg: And you know, if you don't mind, I will go in a little bit into the offer and compromise.
• 25:23
  Stephen Weisberg: So you know your listeners may have heard about the offer and compromise from radio or from TV commercials at 2 am at night.
• 25:33
  Stephen Weisberg: You know that's kind of when those things come on.
• 25:35
  Stephen Weisberg: And a lot of these big national kind of like 800-pound gorillas, as I call them, of these companies that are out there that do you do quote unquote tax resolution.
• 25:47
  Stephen Weisberg: They'll say, hey, we can reduce your debt by 10.
• 25:52
  Stephen Weisberg: You only have to pay 10% of what you owe.
• 25:55
  Stephen Weisberg: And we had this one guy who owed $100,000, and he only paid $1,000.
• 26:01
  Stephen Weisberg: And we can do the same for you.
• 26:03
  Stephen Weisberg: So it sounds too good to be true and it's a little bit of both.
• 26:09
  Stephen Weisberg: In one respect it's not too good to be true, it happens.
• 26:13
  Stephen Weisberg: And another respect most people, the majority of people, more than the majority of people, do not qualify for the offer and compromise.
• 26:22
  Stephen Weisberg: So when these companies do you have a question?
• 26:24
  Erin Gray: I was gonna say why.
• 26:25
  Erin Gray: Why don't most people Okay?
• 26:28
  Stephen Weisberg: Yeah.
• 26:28
  Stephen Weisberg: So when these companies say these types of things, they hopefully really did do an offering compromise that was that successful, and I've had offering compromises that have been extremely successful.
• 26:41
  Stephen Weisberg: I mean ridiculous numbers you know, like owing 700,000 and paying a thousand dollars to get rid of their entire debt.
• 26:45
  Stephen Weisberg: I mean ridiculous numbers you know like owing $700,000 and paying $1,000 to get rid of their entire debt.
• 26:49
  Stephen Weisberg: But again, most people don't qualify.
• 26:51
  Stephen Weisberg: It all depends on your finances.
• 26:54
  Stephen Weisberg: It all depends on your assets equity and assets.
• 26:57
  Stephen Weisberg: It depends on what they call the IRS calls your monthly disposable income.
• 27:01
  Stephen Weisberg: So most people don't qualify because you know if you are making a lot of money and if you're not making a lot of money.
• 27:10
  Stephen Weisberg: If you're making, you know a decent amount of money, though, and your expenses are what they are and your expenses are are reasonable amounts you're going to have leftover.
• 27:24
  Erin Gray: Discretionary income.
• 27:25
  Stephen Weisberg: Yeah, especially what they call discretionary income.
• 27:28
  Stephen Weisberg: And the offering compromise is a formula, but basically they're looking at your discretionary income.
• 27:33
  Stephen Weisberg: They're determining how much time is left for you to be able to pay off your debt.
• 27:39
  Stephen Weisberg: If your discretionary income will pay off the debt over a certain amount of time, they're not going to give you an offering compromise.
• 27:46
  Stephen Weisberg: And then, even if you won't pay off the debt over a certain amount of time, they're not going to give you an offer in compromise.
• 27:50
  Stephen Weisberg: And then, even if you do, even if you won't pay off the debt over the period of time that they're looking at, you know they're going to multiply by 12 what you, your monthly disposable income.
• 27:58
  Stephen Weisberg: And then they're also going to look at any equity and assets.
• 28:02
  Stephen Weisberg: So again, it all depends on your equity and assets, your income, your expenses.
• 28:09
  Stephen Weisberg: There's so much that goes into it and so like.
• 28:13
  Stephen Weisberg: If you look at the percentages, I think offering compromises that are accepted is at like 40%.
• 28:19
  Stephen Weisberg: And it's because these big companies out there tell everyone that they qualify and then the person the taxpayer calls them and says, ok, I'm ready to go.
• 28:29
  Stephen Weisberg: And they say, ok, great, we'll file your offer in compromise.
• 28:31
  Stephen Weisberg: They don't know anything about the case.
• 28:33
  Stephen Weisberg: You can't tell someone, hey, we're going to resolve this case for $0.10 without knowing anything about their case, but they file them anyway.
• 28:41
  Stephen Weisberg: And then they say, oh well, we filed it, it got denied, sorry, we did our best.
• 28:45
  Stephen Weisberg: So it's like a 40% acceptance rate, whereas my acceptance rate when I filed them was probably, you know, 95, 96, 97%, because I'm not filing a frivolous offer in compromise.
• 28:56
  Stephen Weisberg: I'm filing offer in compromise only if I've looked at everything, I've done all the analysis, I've gone through everything and I believe that there's a very good shot that the offer and compromise is going to be accepted.
• 29:08
  Erin Gray: Yeah, like you do, true, due diligence.
• 29:11
  Stephen Weisberg: Exactly.
• 29:13
  Erin Gray: And then so, from a tax attorney perspective, are you all 50 states or is it state specific for tax levy and liens and things of that sort?
• 29:26
  Stephen Weisberg: All 50 states.
• 29:27
  Stephen Weisberg: So as an attorney, I'm admitted to the bar in Michigan, but I can practice in terms of representation in front of the IRS.
• 29:35
  Stephen Weisberg: I can practice in all 50 states.
• 29:36
  Stephen Weisberg: I can also handle state issues in all 50 states, as long as, for attorney purposes, as long as I'm admitted to the bar in one state, which is my home state, michigan, I'm able to represent nationwide.
• 29:49
  Erin Gray: Okay, I love it.
• 29:50
  Erin Gray: I've got payment options, but I think we talked about that.
• 29:53
  Erin Gray: Is there anything else that you want to add that maybe I didn't bring up for us to educate and empower our listeners with.
• 30:02
  Stephen Weisberg: You just want to make sure that you take care of this early.
• 30:05
  Stephen Weisberg: The earlier that you take care of this, the more leverage you have.
• 30:08
  Stephen Weisberg: You're already at a disadvantage with the IRS because, like I said, they're the most powerful collection agency on the planet.
• 30:13
  Stephen Weisberg: You're already at a disadvantage when you hire an attorney or tax representation.
• 30:18
  Stephen Weisberg: You are less of a disadvantage, certainly much less of a disadvantage.
• 30:23
  Stephen Weisberg: But the later you, longer you wait, the less of a disadvantage.
• 30:25
  Stephen Weisberg: But the later you, the longer you wait, the less leverage you have.
• 30:28
  Stephen Weisberg: I mean, if they've already levied your bank account, let's say you're kind of stuck there where, like you're just wanting to get this bank account released so that you don't aren't going to have to pay all this money, so you don't have to kind of leverage as if you came to me way before and we can work out a settlement that makes the most sense possible for you and we can, you know, work the system as much as possible.
• 30:50
  Stephen Weisberg: You're not in that crisis mode.
• 30:52
  Stephen Weisberg: So the bottom line is get to us early.
• 30:55
  Stephen Weisberg: The other thing I just want to reiterate, which we just talked about, but you know, the offering compromise not everyone qualifies.
• 31:01
  Stephen Weisberg: So when you hear that on the radio, just don't believe it.
• 31:03
  Stephen Weisberg: It does happen, but don't believe it.
• 31:06
  Stephen Weisberg: Just be very careful about who you're hiring to help you with your tax debt.
• 31:14
  Erin Gray: I want to say, from the emotional and the nervous regulation side because that's really more of the work that I do, even though we do talk about and work through money is that, obviously, if Stephen has a business doing this and I know that there are lots of other attorneys all throughout the 50 States this is a thing that people experience.
• 31:33
  Erin Gray: So you can't if, if you are, you know, if this ever does come up which I don't wish that it ever does and if you are listening and you are currently in this, then obviously you are not alone.
• 31:45
  Erin Gray: You are not, are listening and you are currently in this, then obviously you are not alone.
• 31:47
  Erin Gray: You are not the first person that has gone through this.
• 31:48
  Erin Gray: Like we don't have to feel the shame and the guilt around this.
• 31:51
  Erin Gray: We can drop that and you know from a place of love for yourself and you know compassion of like we don't know what we don't know, and that you know seeking the help and having and working with people that know and are knowledgeable about this to help you and to guide you is worth every single penny.
• 32:13
  Stephen Weisberg: Absolutely.
• 32:14
  Stephen Weisberg: I mean, I 100% agree with that.
• 32:16
  Stephen Weisberg: There is no shame in this and, first of all, this is my expertise, so I see this on a daily basis.
• 32:23
  Stephen Weisberg: There's certainly no shame.
• 32:24
  Stephen Weisberg: Come to me, I'm not going to feel like, oh my gosh, I can't believe this happened.
• 32:28
  Stephen Weisberg: It happens for so many reasons.
• 32:31
  Stephen Weisberg: There's no shame.
• 32:33
  Stephen Weisberg: Whatever happened happened will help you get out of this.
• 32:36
  Stephen Weisberg: But what I also wanted to just refer back to like you said, the emotional part like you're going to be anxious, you're going to feel like paralyzed, and that's why you call someone like me whether it's me or someone else you want to get a tax professional involved, because the longer you wait, the worse the situation is going to be.
• 32:54
  Stephen Weisberg: But I understand why people do it.
• 32:55
  Stephen Weisberg: I get it.
• 32:55
  Stephen Weisberg: But just as you hear us talking today, just remember there are people out there that can help you.
• 33:00
  Stephen Weisberg: You'll feel so much more peace of mind.
• 33:02
  Stephen Weisberg: There'll be a weight lifted off your chest and you'll just know it's being taken care of and you don't have to worry about it as much.
• 33:08
  Erin Gray: Yeah, it's like that scary monster that's in the closet.
• 33:10
  Erin Gray: I mean, it doesn't help that, you know, like, like even you saying like the, but it is kind of like the truth.
• 33:16
  Erin Gray: It's like we built this IRS up as this, like I don't even want to say big brother, like worse than that, right, like that it's just this entity that, like, has so much control and power and we have created so much fear around that, versus like the monster or the thing underneath your bed, like the quicker that you look at it, the faster that you face it, the more you know empowered and confident that you can feel to move forward.
• 33:42
  Erin Gray: I wanted to say one other thing, back to your comment around, you know, people go through this.
• 33:48
  Erin Gray: There have been women that I have helped that have have had, you know, gone through this, and we don't teach self-employment tax, like if you aren't working with a CPA or a enrolled agent, or I mean I don't even know if my business classes talked about self-employment tax, you know.
• 34:05
  Erin Gray: So it's like we're not learning this, like most entrepreneurs don't typically take business classes and go through business, right, and so just, I would just say that to each of you listening like we don't know what we don't know, and a lot of this is we learn on the job training, and so I want to encourage you that if you know you are in this position, you know reach out to Steven, have a conversation with him and you know take care of your financial house so that you aren't in this position for any longer or you don't have to pay more.
• 34:38
  Erin Gray: Like, I think, the taxes and the penalty.
• 34:40
  Erin Gray: I don't know which one is worse.
• 34:41
  Erin Gray: The penalties are the the um, not the taxes, but the interest.
• 34:45
  Erin Gray: There you go, the interest.
• 34:47
  Stephen Weisberg: Penalties are way worse, way worse, yep.
• 34:50
  Erin Gray: So perfect.
• 34:51
  Erin Gray: Thank you, Steven, for coming on.
• 34:53
  Erin Gray: You're welcome For sharing your time with us.
• 34:55
  Stephen Weisberg: Thanks for having me.
• 34:55
  Stephen Weisberg: I appreciate it yeah.
• 34:57
  Erin Gray: Thanks for listening, guys.
• 34:58
  Erin Gray: I'll see you next time.
• 34:58
  Erin Gray: I would love it if you would leave a review for this podcast.
• 35:02
  Erin Gray: It helps the show grow and I love hearing from you.
• 35:09
  Erin Gray: And if this episode resonated with you and you have a business bestie who is also avoiding her money, will you share this episode with her?
• 35:13
  Erin Gray: My mission is to help more female entrepreneurs feel safe and empowered with their money.
• 35:19
  Erin Gray: Okay, I'll see you in the next episode.