Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / Batman: Mask of the Phantasm (1993) - Eric Radomski & Bruce Timm | Houselights #286: Wing of Batman

Transcript

Batman: Mask of the Phantasm (1993) - Eric Radomski & Bruce Timm | Houselights #286: Wing of Batman · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

0:03
Speaker 1: Welcome to the net party, Welcome back to the wing
0:21
Speaker 1: of Batman. Here on House Lights, as we explore Batman
0:25
Speaker 1: as he's been interpreted on the big screen from nineteen
0:28
Speaker 1: sixty six to today and maybe beyond.
0:31
Speaker 2: I don't know.
0:32
Speaker 1: We're not there yet, but we are entering this week
0:35
Speaker 1: talking about nineteen ninety three's Batman Mask of the Phanfasm,
0:39
Speaker 1: our first animated entry and I think possibly our only one,
0:43
Speaker 1: unless you want to count Overblown CG.
0:45
Speaker 2: But we'll get to that later on.
0:46
Speaker 1: And we are going to be looking at Batman Mask
0:49
Speaker 1: of the Phantasm through the lens of the directors that
0:52
Speaker 1: brought it to the screen, the rushed production that got
0:54
Speaker 1: it to a wide theatrical release in time for Christmas,
0:57
Speaker 1: and all of the other things that go along with that,
0:59
Speaker 1: including a voice that was maybe a little more familiar
1:02
Speaker 1: than we thought he was when he made his first
1:04
Speaker 1: debut as the Joker. I am John Mills. I am
1:08
Speaker 1: a crime lord suffering from emphysema in my later years,
1:11
Speaker 1: and I'm joined by two other crime lords. The suspiciously
1:14
Speaker 1: affable crime lord who fixed the finances for the Mob
1:19
Speaker 1: and later disappeared, Darren Moser, and of course the mobster
1:24
Speaker 1: hit man with the suspicious smile, who might come into.
1:27
Speaker 2: Play later, Tristan Riddell.
1:29
Speaker 1: Gentlemen, here we are with the animated feature Batman, Mask
1:33
Speaker 1: of the Phanfasm. The only person here old enough to
1:36
Speaker 1: have seen it in the theater as usual is me,
1:38
Speaker 1: And we are going to get off and running here
1:41
Speaker 1: because this is an animated feature that comes in, charging
1:45
Speaker 1: in hard on the heels of Tim Burton's efforts before
1:49
Speaker 1: we get to Joel Schumacher. So I need to ask,
1:52
Speaker 1: because we always ask first time and everything like that.
1:55
Speaker 1: But Darren, as a Batman fan, was this something where
1:58
Speaker 1: when you started to get into bat Man people nudged
2:01
Speaker 1: you toward this was a necessary viewing experience or was
2:04
Speaker 1: this something that you later stumbled on?
2:06
Speaker 3: No, it's strange. It is a later stumble on. Although
2:09
Speaker 3: I was ripe for this. I was around ten when
2:13
Speaker 3: the animated series was on, so I was drinking that
2:17
Speaker 3: kool aid. It was really enjoyable, you know. I love
2:21
Speaker 3: the animated series. I love the what do they call it?
2:23
Speaker 3: Black on black? Like we're drawing on black paper with
2:25
Speaker 3: black crans, and it's all going to be dark and brooding,
2:29
Speaker 3: and just every episode I really enjoyed. So I don't
2:33
Speaker 3: know why. I just did not click and and you know,
2:37
Speaker 3: beg my parents to go see Mask of the Phantasm
2:39
Speaker 3: in theaters. It just did not radar. I was busy
2:42
Speaker 3: watching TG. Guys, I was busy. It was ninety three.
2:45
Speaker 2: I was sad.
2:46
Speaker 3: TG was almost over. It was just a it was
2:49
Speaker 3: a sad time.
2:50
Speaker 1: But well, let's be fair with the age that you
2:53
Speaker 1: were at being home on Christmas Day, it was a
2:55
Speaker 1: much bigger deal than it was for me at that point.
2:57
Speaker 1: Dad is so me going out the night of Christmas
3:01
Speaker 1: to go see Batman Mask of the Phantasm was a
3:03
Speaker 1: much more believable sort of thing to happen. Tristan, was
3:07
Speaker 1: this an immediate, necessary viewing pleasure in your Batman indoctrination
3:12
Speaker 1: or was this something that you later stumbled on and
3:14
Speaker 1: you were like, oh, wow.
3:14
Speaker 2: They did a movie.
3:15
Speaker 4: This was definitely the latter. I was so surprised how
3:19
Speaker 4: this went over my head because I would watch the
3:22
Speaker 4: I'd come home from school and watch Batman the animated series,
3:26
Speaker 4: but for some reason, if it was a two face episode,
3:29
Speaker 4: I would shut off the TV. I'd be like, Nope,
3:31
Speaker 4: I cannot handle that.
3:32
Speaker 2: Dude's face.
3:33
Speaker 4: I don't care if it's blue and exaggerated and lips
3:36
Speaker 4: are curled.
3:37
Speaker 2: Nope.
3:37
Speaker 4: I like I freaked the hell out whenever two Face
3:40
Speaker 4: was on screen. I don't know why that was just
3:42
Speaker 4: a trigger for me. I have no idea how I
3:45
Speaker 4: missed this, and I have no recollection of when I
3:48
Speaker 4: first watched it, like when I stumbled upon it. I
3:51
Speaker 4: think it was when it came out on video years later,
3:54
Speaker 4: and I remember it. You remember the old Disney clamshells
3:58
Speaker 4: for VHS?
3:59
Speaker 1: Yes, I love that packaging. It was so good, It
4:02
Speaker 1: was so satisfying to open those clamshells.
4:05
Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure that this was this came out in
4:09
Speaker 4: that kind of packaging, and I could be wrong. And
4:12
Speaker 4: I don't think we got the proper aspect ratio until
4:15
Speaker 4: it was remastered in four kas.
4:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, the aspect ratio has always been an issue with
4:20
Speaker 1: this one. I know that I was one of a
4:24
Speaker 1: handful of people who actually saw this in the movie theater.
4:27
Speaker 1: I was barely out of high school. And can you
4:30
Speaker 1: guys guess who I went to go see it with.
4:32
Speaker 1: It was the nineties. Who did I go see it with?
4:34
Speaker 1: Joey Joey Immortal Joey, who I mentioned all the time.
4:37
Speaker 1: He had just gotten a new video camera for Christmas.
4:40
Speaker 1: So it actually snowed, which was pretty rare in the
4:44
Speaker 1: mid Atlantic for us to get snow at that time,
4:47
Speaker 1: you know, on Christmas Day. So like we left the
4:49
Speaker 1: theater and there was snow falling and it was actually
4:52
Speaker 1: sticking to the roads. It was like, oh, man, Like
4:54
Speaker 1: it was this weirdly magical Christmas for me because I
4:58
Speaker 1: was out there with one of my besties, it's snowing outside.
5:03
Speaker 1: We had Chinese food for dinner. Back before that became
5:06
Speaker 1: like too wildly popular. We saw Batman Mask of the Phantasm,
5:10
Speaker 1: and I remember that first viewing. We went into it
5:12
Speaker 1: because we were like, yeah, okay, sure we'll go see it.
5:16
Speaker 1: I mean we're Batman fans, okay, And we went in
5:18
Speaker 1: with just low expectations. We were like, you know, it's
5:21
Speaker 1: probably gonna be like a kid's movie or something. And
5:23
Speaker 1: it was one of those things where we walked out
5:25
Speaker 1: and was like that was way better than it had
5:27
Speaker 1: any right to be. Like it immediately created just an
5:30
Speaker 1: amazing effect for me and for him, Like it's always
5:34
Speaker 1: been a touchstone for us, that magical first viewing of
5:37
Speaker 1: this movie.
5:38
Speaker 4: And I think that happened with Warner Brothers as well,
5:40
Speaker 4: because they when they read the script and when they
5:43
Speaker 4: saw some of the slides, they're like, wait, no this,
5:46
Speaker 4: we can't waste this on TV, Like this needs to
5:48
Speaker 4: be athenttrical release. And apparently I don't think it was Deani.
5:51
Speaker 4: I think it was Tim who said that. It was
5:54
Speaker 4: like he literally had the plates to hand off to
5:58
Speaker 4: animation for the finished film and it was all in
6:00
Speaker 4: four x three, and they said, nope, you're not done yet,
6:03
Speaker 4: like this is going to be a satrical release. And
6:05
Speaker 4: he's like, well, what the hell am I supposed to do? Yeah,
6:08
Speaker 4: like the Margins. You know, I'm going to draw on
6:11
Speaker 4: the margins. And they had eight months to do it. Yes,
6:14
Speaker 4: eight months and a shockingly small amount of money.
6:18
Speaker 1: Yes, this is a classic case in all honesty of
6:23
Speaker 1: a movie where when they made the decision to turn
6:25
Speaker 1: it theatrical, they should have said, Okay, we're going to
6:28
Speaker 1: delay this by a year. But just like the nineteen
6:31
Speaker 1: sixty six TV show, it's between seasons and they're like,
6:34
Speaker 1: this is basically a marketing push. This is a big
6:37
Speaker 1: ad for the movie. And I think that it winds
6:41
Speaker 1: up being I'll lay it at the feet of whatever
6:44
Speaker 1: Warner's execs were behind it, I would call it. I
6:47
Speaker 1: think it was Jeffrey Cassenberg. So Cassenberg syndrome. The same
6:50
Speaker 1: thing that happened to The Black Cauldron when he comes
6:53
Speaker 1: on board at Disney is he didn't really understand how
6:56
Speaker 1: animation worked. So when he's asking for cuts and and reshoots,
7:01
Speaker 1: you know, that was the point at which the people
7:03
Speaker 1: working on the Black Cauldron were like that, what no,
7:06
Speaker 1: that No, that's.
7:07
Speaker 3: Not change the angle of the shot?
7:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, how many months are you going to give me
7:14
Speaker 1: to change the angle of the shot? So I think
7:17
Speaker 1: what it was was they got justifiably excited and they
7:20
Speaker 1: didn't understand that that meant, oh, we have to account
7:25
Speaker 1: for changing everything. It was classic sort of like corporate
7:28
Speaker 1: mentality of this is great, make it more, and it's like, well,
7:31
Speaker 1: more takes more.
7:33
Speaker 2: What are you what are you talking about?
7:35
Speaker 1: I think that the movie winds up suffering because of that,
7:39
Speaker 1: But I mean, financially, well what I think and you know, Darren,
7:43
Speaker 1: I'll bounce this idea off of you. I think that
7:45
Speaker 1: it's so good or the experience winds up catching people
7:49
Speaker 1: like myself so off guard that when it came to
7:52
Speaker 1: home release, we were there to evangelize. We were there
7:55
Speaker 1: to be like, no, no, no, you got to rent it.
7:57
Speaker 1: You got it, and we bought it and we took
7:58
Speaker 1: it out to people and we showed it to them,
8:00
Speaker 1: giving it that cult status. So do you I mean,
8:03
Speaker 1: I guess the question is do you think that's inevitable
8:05
Speaker 1: for a good movie. So it will always eventually find
8:08
Speaker 1: its audience. It's just a question of at what point
8:12
Speaker 1: it hits.
8:13
Speaker 3: No, I definitely agree. Yeah, I was. I was just
8:16
Speaker 3: looking this up because I'm like, okay, when this was
8:19
Speaker 3: is obviously a key part of its story. And yeah,
8:22
Speaker 3: so you have the first season of Batman. The animated
8:25
Speaker 3: series went from September of ninety two to September of
8:28
Speaker 3: ninety three. This was December of ninety three, and then
8:31
Speaker 3: the second season, with about twenty episodes, picked up May
8:34
Speaker 3: the following year. So yeah, you're right in that we
8:37
Speaker 3: got to keep giving the kids some Batman or they're
8:39
Speaker 3: going to I don't know why. I'm a chain smoking executive,
8:41
Speaker 3: but you can still smoke back then. Okay, that's true,
8:45
Speaker 3: it works, it works. But this is my question though,
8:49
Speaker 3: You're talking about Tim handing off the plates and being
8:53
Speaker 3: just about done. What But this is not a twenty
8:56
Speaker 3: two minute episode. This is a full sure linked movies.
9:01
Speaker 3: So I'm assuming it was some sort of multi part
9:04
Speaker 3: extravaganza like they'd done that in previous episodes where they
9:07
Speaker 3: string you know, Heart of Steel and things like that,
9:10
Speaker 3: like Part one and Part two. But how did that
9:13
Speaker 3: transform and evolve into this very flashback emotional returning to
9:19
Speaker 3: Batman year one vibes like that? They obviously are trying
9:24
Speaker 3: to tell a bigger story with the movie, So when
9:28
Speaker 3: did it shift from another twenty two minute dip into
9:32
Speaker 3: the well? And I'm not sure.
9:35
Speaker 1: It was always supposed to be a direct to video release.
9:37
Speaker 1: That's why they were working three so and then there
9:41
Speaker 1: was going to be a movie. It's got to be
9:42
Speaker 1: in theatrical. I mean, Trista, let me ask you this.
9:47
Speaker 1: Do you think it would have suffered had they released
9:49
Speaker 1: it theatrically In four x three? I know that we're
9:52
Speaker 1: a little more open to different aspect ratios. You don't
9:54
Speaker 1: think it would have suffered?
9:55
Speaker 3: No?
9:55
Speaker 2: No, I really don't.
9:56
Speaker 4: I think there's nothing about this that really screams that
9:59
Speaker 4: needs the ex banded ratio. I think this is a
10:02
Speaker 4: this is it's not a knock. I mean, you can
10:04
Speaker 4: you can tell that they are These are coming from
10:08
Speaker 4: people who have the discipline of four x three four
10:10
Speaker 4: y three is a beautiful ratio. We've used it for
10:14
Speaker 4: one hundred years and it's you can tell that it
10:18
Speaker 4: was made for that. And then they just kind of
10:20
Speaker 4: added some stuff on the sides where they needed to,
10:23
Speaker 4: and that's okay. It's just I don't think the vision
10:26
Speaker 4: would have suffered. But I do like the message that
10:30
Speaker 4: it's sent that this story, these makers, these animators, these writers,
10:35
Speaker 4: these producers are doing such good quality Batman stuff that
10:40
Speaker 4: it needs to be on the big screen. So I
10:42
Speaker 4: like it for that, But I think it would have
10:43
Speaker 4: eventually found its audience, just like so many other direct
10:49
Speaker 4: to video Batman movies have over the decades. I mean,
10:52
Speaker 4: like how many are worry up to now, Like they
10:54
Speaker 4: release one a couple of year now. I think it's insane,
10:57
Speaker 4: Like the dc AU and now now the DA. I
11:01
Speaker 4: can't even keep track of how many you know, vernyms
11:04
Speaker 4: they have. Yeah, the acronyms are all over the board.
11:06
Speaker 4: That that's that's extremely true. But in terms of the
11:11
Speaker 4: scale of this, you know. Part of that is the
11:15
Speaker 4: vocal talent, you know, And Darren, do you think that,
11:18
Speaker 4: I mean, unquestionably, all due respect to everybody else that's
11:21
Speaker 4: ever played Batman, I hear Kevin Conroy's voice. If you
11:24
Speaker 4: say Batman, that's actually the first voice that comes into
11:27
Speaker 4: my head is Kevin Khan.
11:28
Speaker 2: He's absolutely icon.
11:29
Speaker 4: You are, You're in the majority there, Like whenever I know, yeah, yeah,
11:34
Speaker 4: like whenever I read a comic book, whenever I even
11:36
Speaker 4: read a novel, or when I even a like thinking
11:39
Speaker 4: about Batman, like, it's Kevin conn in my voice. And
11:43
Speaker 4: you know, I'm a gigantic fan of the Arkham games.
11:46
Speaker 4: I mean, they're they're my forever games, Like I could
11:48
Speaker 4: play them if that if if God said I'm removing
11:51
Speaker 4: all of the video games from the Earth and you
11:52
Speaker 4: can only eat keep this trilogy, I'd be like, that's okay,
11:55
Speaker 4: that's cool, that's fine.
11:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, it works out, Yeah.
11:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, I I The thing thing that I come at
12:00
Speaker 1: with is, you know, interest, And I'll ask you this,
12:04
Speaker 1: do you think that the simple fact that we got
12:06
Speaker 1: between Batman Returns and Batman Forever, a theatrical Batman that
12:11
Speaker 1: had a completely different take on his origin story, and
12:15
Speaker 1: you know, actually the nature of the character is a
12:17
Speaker 1: little bit different than Burton had on it. Do you
12:20
Speaker 1: think that we're looking at something that hearkens back to
12:23
Speaker 1: a simpler time for comic book and comic book movie fans,
12:26
Speaker 1: where we didn't care that it wasn't in continuity, Like,
12:29
Speaker 1: do you think that that something like this has more
12:32
Speaker 1: trouble today?
12:33
Speaker 2: Or do you think that we've.
12:34
Speaker 1: Just drawn the lines differently and we understand what bucket
12:38
Speaker 1: we're in when we come to it.
12:39
Speaker 4: I think that I think because we're comic book fans,
12:43
Speaker 4: we're used to it. When you look at all the
12:45
Speaker 4: ages that we've gone through, all the reboots. You know,
12:47
Speaker 4: Batman's what eighty years old? And how many versions have
12:50
Speaker 4: we gone through? Because you have Batman, you have Detective Comics,
12:54
Speaker 4: you have Batman and Robin, you have Absolute Batman. You
12:57
Speaker 4: have you know, like just think of and even think
12:58
Speaker 4: about like spider Man, all the amazing spider Man, just
13:02
Speaker 4: spider Man. You just have all these different titles with
13:04
Speaker 4: all these different continuities and all these different strengths and focuses,
13:08
Speaker 4: and I feel like, I mean, they're the majority of
13:12
Speaker 4: people don't care. Like they just don't care. I mean,
13:16
Speaker 4: like there are people out there today who are like,
13:18
Speaker 4: when are Batman and Spider Man going to be in
13:20
Speaker 4: a movie together? You know, like it just the average
13:23
Speaker 4: audience does not care. They're just gonna go for the story.
13:25
Speaker 4: They don't care where it falls in the continuum. They
13:28
Speaker 4: don't need that ending scene of the Flash where we
13:30
Speaker 4: see every single version of Superman, you know, like you know,
13:34
Speaker 4: like covering around a CGI Nick Cage or Christopher Reeve
13:38
Speaker 4: or anything like that. But it's I think everyone always
13:42
Speaker 4: assumes that it's going to be a problem. I think
13:43
Speaker 4: that corporate people assume that's going to be a problem,
13:46
Speaker 4: but fans don't really care. And that's not I can't.
13:48
Speaker 4: I can't give a blanket statement like that because for
13:51
Speaker 4: a lot of fans, it's a lot of fun to
13:52
Speaker 4: think about continuity. Like as Star Trek fans, we try
13:55
Speaker 4: to make up excuses for why an on screen mistake happened,
13:59
Speaker 4: or why twelve parts sex is a measurement of distance
14:02
Speaker 4: not speed, and you know, things like that. They created
14:05
Speaker 4: an entire movie to explain that in Star Wars, And
14:07
Speaker 4: it's just to answer your question, I don't think it matters,
14:11
Speaker 4: but it's fun when it does. But it's fine if
14:13
Speaker 4: it doesn't.
14:14
Speaker 2: Okay, that's fair. I mean I accept that.
14:16
Speaker 1: I mean, it's the continuity thing has always been something
14:18
Speaker 1: where I know, I've never cared. It's like, you know,
14:21
Speaker 1: it is what it is, like you said, especially if
14:23
Speaker 1: you grew up reading comic books. Every different editor in
14:26
Speaker 1: chief that comes in gives a different spin on stuff,
14:30
Speaker 1: and you know you can tell the different eras. But Darren,
14:34
Speaker 1: in terms of this Batman, this iteration of Batman, do
14:38
Speaker 1: you feel the influence of Burton on it because of
14:42
Speaker 1: the type of story they're telling here in a movie format,
14:46
Speaker 1: do you feel that the identity of this lines up
14:49
Speaker 1: one to one with the animated series or do you
14:51
Speaker 1: feel that there is a little bit of excessive Tim
14:54
Speaker 1: Burton influence laying over top of it. So kind of
14:57
Speaker 1: the weight is it weightier because it an shadow to
15:01
Speaker 1: a point? I think at this point, I mean, like
15:03
Speaker 1: I said, I watched the show so much like this
15:06
Speaker 1: is the this is what introduced me to Batman, same
15:09
Speaker 1: a lot of the Fox Kids shows or what introduced me.
15:12
Speaker 1: That's how I learned about Spider Man, That's how I
15:14
Speaker 1: learned about many thing because I didn't grow up on comics.
15:17
Speaker 3: So yeah, this movie, I will say it. I mean, yes,
15:22
Speaker 3: maybe a little bit of extra weight, but it honestly
15:25
Speaker 3: feels like by at this point it is such its
15:28
Speaker 3: own thing from a whole seaton sixty five episodes of
15:31
Speaker 3: who is This Batman? This animated Batman? The Kevin Conroy voice,
15:37
Speaker 3: like it is so ingrained at this point, I'm not
15:40
Speaker 3: even thinking about Burton, like, yeah, that was maybe when
15:42
Speaker 3: the die was cast to make this Batman, but it
15:45
Speaker 3: is We've had hours one hundred you know, maybe not
15:48
Speaker 3: one hundred, many hours of content, tens of hours to
15:52
Speaker 3: establish this character. But I will say there is weight
15:56
Speaker 3: in the fact that they are kind of going in
15:59
Speaker 3: this flashback type movie of seeing him, Oh I need
16:05
Speaker 3: to be scarier. I'm gonna like developing the batsuit. Like
16:08
Speaker 3: that moment where he puts it on for the first
16:11
Speaker 3: time and Alfred is shocked is so iconic because that
16:15
Speaker 3: says more than any goon being frightened, you know, that
16:19
Speaker 3: tells us like, oh, okay, he is crossing a line
16:23
Speaker 3: into becoming this. And when he's talking to his dead
16:26
Speaker 3: parents at their tombstone, like pleading to have some joy
16:30
Speaker 3: in his life. Like, there are some great moments in
16:33
Speaker 3: this movie, but I don't feel like they're fleshing out
16:36
Speaker 3: Burtons Batman. I feel like this is Tim's Batman, this
16:40
Speaker 3: is the animated Batman, and we're getting a lot more,
16:44
Speaker 3: which is really enjoyable. I think it's a great Are
16:48
Speaker 3: there other two parter you know, animated Batman's from this
16:52
Speaker 3: era that I kind of like the story better. Yeah,
16:54
Speaker 3: it's not my favorite story, but it's no slouch.
16:58
Speaker 1: Well, speaking of you know, elements of Batman we've already
17:01
Speaker 1: had on the big screen. He's had a love interest
17:04
Speaker 1: in Vicky Vale, He's had a love interest in Selena Kyle,
17:08
Speaker 1: and now we get another love interest here, voiced by
17:12
Speaker 1: the wonderful Dana Delaney as Andrea Andy Beaumont Tristan. I
17:17
Speaker 1: know this is an animated movie, However, it would only
17:20
Speaker 1: be fair to rank miss Beaumont in the pantheon of
17:24
Speaker 1: Batman's love interests. Is she a top fiver or is
17:28
Speaker 1: she a forgotten fem fatau?
17:30
Speaker 4: I honestly think that she's kind of forgotten. It's she
17:34
Speaker 4: doesn't even really rank up there with me, because, like,
17:36
Speaker 4: if you have Veil, Kyle, Talia, and even Rachel, you know,
17:44
Speaker 4: depending on which version you go with. I just don't
17:48
Speaker 4: think she ranks up there because it was nice to
17:50
Speaker 4: see a love interest in an animated version and had
17:53
Speaker 4: had it have it treated so I don't want to
17:58
Speaker 4: say professionally, but just like treated so earnestly.
18:01
Speaker 2: Where this was.
18:02
Speaker 4: This was the writers and producers trying to show a
18:05
Speaker 4: legitimate ray of hope in Bruce's life. Where I loved
18:10
Speaker 4: I liked seeing her as a vehicle to his happiness
18:13
Speaker 4: and an alternate life that he could have lived. And
18:16
Speaker 4: I feel like it's kind of like his Last Temptation
18:18
Speaker 4: of Christ, where he's like, Okay, if I don't do this,
18:22
Speaker 4: this is the life I'm going to see. This is
18:23
Speaker 4: the life I could have. But if I actually do this,
18:27
Speaker 4: I can't have her or that life, and then it's
18:30
Speaker 4: going to be filled with pain. But I'm going to
18:31
Speaker 4: get something done. In fact, holy crap, this is this
18:34
Speaker 4: last Temptation of Christ. This is batman Last Temptation, the
18:38
Speaker 4: last Temptation of Bruce Waite, the last Temptation of Bruce Wayne.
18:42
Speaker 4: If only we did alternate episode titles. But yeah, so
18:45
Speaker 4: that's kind of she is a vehicle. I mean, I
18:47
Speaker 4: don't think she's icronography, and I think she's there to
18:53
Speaker 4: show an alternate life as well as move the plot
18:56
Speaker 4: along and completely alter her body type. During the reveal
19:00
Speaker 4: of who is behind the mask of the Reaper?
19:03
Speaker 2: Oh you quiet?
19:05
Speaker 4: You like please, she loses what like twenty inches on
19:08
Speaker 4: her waist when she takes off the cloak.
19:10
Speaker 1: You know cloaks, Can you know they're not flattering? Okay,
19:13
Speaker 1: Tristan likely exactly right. Yeah, that's how she can handle
19:17
Speaker 1: those falls. So well, she's got a lot.
19:19
Speaker 4: Everybody loved working with Dana Delaney and her voice acting
19:23
Speaker 4: so much that that's why she was asked to be
19:26
Speaker 4: Lois Lane in the in the Future shows.
19:29
Speaker 1: Well, she's a terrific actress, always has been, and nobody's
19:33
Speaker 1: ever had any any but anything but positive words about
19:37
Speaker 1: working with her. To your point, like, I've never you know,
19:40
Speaker 1: you hear different stories or times stuff gets put in
19:42
Speaker 1: the gossip rags. Nobody's ever said anything cross about Dana
19:46
Speaker 1: Delaney like once. I've never encountered any story like that.
19:49
Speaker 1: So it makes perfect sense to me that the crew
19:52
Speaker 1: works with her and they're like, we got to find
19:54
Speaker 1: some other reason to hang out with you because you're
19:56
Speaker 1: just so cool. Now, Darren, do you agree with Tristan's
20:00
Speaker 1: dismissive interpretation of Andy Beaumont's impact and placement in the
20:04
Speaker 1: pantheon of Bruce Wayne's love interests.
20:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the fact that half her screen time
20:11
Speaker 3: is flashback, Like the amount of time she's actually with
20:14
Speaker 3: Bruce in present day is just a weekend. It's like
20:18
Speaker 3: barely anything. Yeah. So it this movie has this weird
20:24
Speaker 3: balance where you have this new character that's all of
20:29
Speaker 3: a sudden integral to Bruce's past that we've barely known,
20:33
Speaker 3: and then you also have like, oh, if we're gonna
20:35
Speaker 3: have a villain, let's bring the joker in, like the
20:38
Speaker 3: most known like heavy hitter who apparently just chills that
20:42
Speaker 3: old amusement park, you know, Plazas. It. I'm not saying
20:46
Speaker 3: I didn't enjoy the joker in this, but it it
20:48
Speaker 3: did kind of catch me off guard that, like, oh,
20:51
Speaker 3: we're we're gonna pull that out of the deck, like
20:54
Speaker 3: not some other mid tier bad guy like this has
20:58
Speaker 3: got to be a joker, you know level.
21:00
Speaker 1: Okay, Honestly, I think Go Bigger, Go Home makes perfect
21:03
Speaker 1: sense in this story, or not specifically, because Batman is
21:08
Speaker 1: at the crux, like he's put back with the one
21:10
Speaker 1: woman he would have left it all for who left him,
21:15
Speaker 1: which puts him in in the you know, the he's
21:18
Speaker 1: not in the power position there because she left him,
21:22
Speaker 1: which just absolutely devastates him. And so it's sort of
21:26
Speaker 1: like it's the only way the only place you can
21:29
Speaker 1: go with the stakes after that is to bring in
21:31
Speaker 1: the biggest bad of all. And I think that what
21:34
Speaker 1: I love most about bringing the Joker in is the
21:37
Speaker 1: fact that he lives in that old world's fair environment,
21:41
Speaker 1: because that is the most jokerish type of thing to be,
21:46
Speaker 1: is to be so over the top. That's that's where
21:49
Speaker 1: I think very killing joke. But it's also I consider
21:52
Speaker 1: it a throwback to a Caesar Romero sort of mentality
21:55
Speaker 1: where it's like, you know what this, guys, we're talking
21:58
Speaker 1: about cartoon characters here. We're gonna be pretty wacky with this.
22:01
Speaker 1: I mean, you got you know, flying rockets and exploding
22:04
Speaker 1: earths and stuff like that. It's like, why why not
22:07
Speaker 1: go absolutely gargantuan insane with it? And I admire that.
22:12
Speaker 1: I like that it makes more sense than remote control Penguins,
22:16
Speaker 1: you know, I can give it that much.
22:17
Speaker 3: We'll say I did. Like like the early moments with Joker,
22:22
Speaker 3: when like the Weezer bad guy is there, it feels
22:25
Speaker 3: like he's in a room with a loaded gun, like
22:27
Speaker 3: they are writing Jokers so well, where you're like, okay,
22:30
Speaker 3: you came to Joker, you're probably not leaving here alive,
22:34
Speaker 3: like there is no way to approach this.
22:37
Speaker 2: Bomb and not have it go off.
22:39
Speaker 3: And because they're talking like old Chum's and you're like, okay,
22:42
Speaker 3: it's gonna be okay. And then he kind of insults
22:44
Speaker 3: him and you're like, oh, buddy, oh this is this
22:48
Speaker 3: is not gonna go your way. Like so there, like
22:51
Speaker 3: I said, they're writing on him on Joker is so good.
22:55
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously Hamill's performance is amazing, but yeah, it's
22:59
Speaker 3: you're just it's like, okay, I need the plot to
23:01
Speaker 3: move along. But but the Joker, like he's got to
23:05
Speaker 3: kill everybody who comes into his orbit.
23:07
Speaker 2: Like that's just how he is. I think, actually, yeah,
23:09
Speaker 2: go on.
23:10
Speaker 4: My favorite Joker moment in the entire movie is when
23:15
Speaker 4: she Injury is getting sucked into the fan and Bats
23:20
Speaker 4: uses the bat cycle to break the fan and then
23:22
Speaker 4: they fall to the ground and then the camera just
23:24
Speaker 4: goes to Joker and he just.
23:26
Speaker 2: Goes yep, runs away. That's that's perfect. That's a pretty
23:30
Speaker 2: great moment.
23:31
Speaker 1: I'm also a big fan of when she goes in
23:35
Speaker 1: and Weezer is in the chair and she turns it
23:38
Speaker 1: around and there's the camera with the bomb and you
23:41
Speaker 1: hear Joker and he's like, oh, you're not bats, you know,
23:43
Speaker 1: like he's like, you know, like that's a very Joker
23:48
Speaker 1: thing to do too, where it's like, oh, damn it,
23:50
Speaker 1: I thought I was gonna kill him, all right, well
23:52
Speaker 1: you're gonna die. Like I enjoy so much about this film,
23:58
Speaker 1: and you know Hamill, well, I can honestly say when
24:01
Speaker 1: I watched the episode, I wasn't like a credits watcher,
24:04
Speaker 1: you know, with the original series at first when they
24:08
Speaker 1: started doing the promos for this and I saw Hammill
24:11
Speaker 1: in the studio performing Joker, and I remember I remember
24:16
Speaker 1: sitting there smoking a cigarette and seeing that and sitting
24:19
Speaker 1: up and going, wait.
24:20
Speaker 2: That was Mark what? Like it took everybody off guard.
24:24
Speaker 4: This was John AT's seven years old, folks. Yes, that's
24:27
Speaker 4: how that's how gob was. I was so young that
24:31
Speaker 4: I was still smoking Menthols. I didn't know any better
24:33
Speaker 4: at that point.
24:35
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I want to side note here.
24:37
Speaker 4: I really want people to know about Paul Deny getting attacked.
24:42
Speaker 2: Yes, please bring this up, please.
24:44
Speaker 4: So Paul DENI was mugged and brutally assaulted during the
24:49
Speaker 4: making of this movie, and he was hurt so bad
24:53
Speaker 4: he needed reconstructive surgery for his skull and it was
25:01
Speaker 4: obviously traumatic. He didn't know if he could continue making
25:04
Speaker 4: the movie. You know, he needed time to recoup, He
25:06
Speaker 4: needed time to recover, He needed time for surgery, and
25:10
Speaker 4: he didn't want to leave his house. He was he
25:13
Speaker 4: did he could not continue, and thankfully he was able
25:16
Speaker 4: to recover, thankfully, like psychologically and physically and get back
25:20
Speaker 4: to work. And getting back to work actually helped him.
25:22
Speaker 4: But he wrote about it and made a comic book
25:25
Speaker 4: called Dark Knight Night spelled with an N a true
25:28
Speaker 4: Batman story and it is a wonderful book that everybody
25:32
Speaker 4: should read and get absolutely and it shows how he
25:36
Speaker 4: kind of has like the bat He has Batman and
25:38
Speaker 4: Joker on his shoulder, kind of like the Angel and
25:41
Speaker 4: a devil talking to him during his recovery of you know,
25:45
Speaker 4: getting over this vicious attack or recovering from this vicious attack,
25:48
Speaker 4: and it's beautifully drawn, beautifully written, and it's really interesting
25:52
Speaker 4: to see it from his own perspective.
25:53
Speaker 2: I agree with you.
25:55
Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned it because it's a beautiful work
25:58
Speaker 1: and I think it's one wonderful example of somebody taking
26:02
Speaker 1: something terrible and making something beautiful out of it. Like
26:06
Speaker 1: I think there's a life lesson in that in and
26:07
Speaker 1: of itself, that that art can be produced from from
26:12
Speaker 1: the most unexpected places. And thank god he survived, you know,
26:16
Speaker 1: And it's like I think that it's a true testament
26:20
Speaker 1: to what an art form he works in. Pete like,
26:25
Speaker 1: just to take a minute, I'll lay this strictly at
26:28
Speaker 1: Disney's doorstep. The company Disney went to great lengths to
26:32
Speaker 1: portray animation and by by sort of ripple effect, comics, cartoons,
26:37
Speaker 1: what have you, as a kids medium. It's for the kids.
26:41
Speaker 1: And I think that with Mask of the phanfasm, with
26:43
Speaker 1: Denie's book that you're talking about, it really is one
26:45
Speaker 1: of those things where there's I think we're finally coming
26:49
Speaker 1: through that fog and realizing it's an art form as
26:53
Speaker 1: a society, not just not just the fans as a society.
26:56
Speaker 1: That's really you know, it's a really expressive and beautiful
27:00
Speaker 1: art form that people should be embracing and recognizing these
27:03
Speaker 1: important stories could be told in it.
27:06
Speaker 4: Like you said, like the fans have always known, you know,
27:08
Speaker 4: people who love comic It's always known. Yeah, And I
27:11
Speaker 4: remember when Family Guy just kind of like going off
27:14
Speaker 4: the track a little bit. When Family Guy came out,
27:16
Speaker 4: people are like, oh, because it's a cartoon, you know,
27:18
Speaker 4: kids are going to watch it and get traumatized. And
27:21
Speaker 4: it's the same kind of thing. When you have adult
27:23
Speaker 4: centered comic books, people are like, well, you shouldn't have
27:25
Speaker 4: those because kids are going to think that they're it's
27:27
Speaker 4: for them, right, which is of course nonsense.
27:30
Speaker 2: It's bunk.
27:30
Speaker 1: But part of the Batman, especially the big screen Batman
27:35
Speaker 1: mythos vibe, all of it is the music. Now, the
27:39
Speaker 1: score here is from Shirley Walker, who was actually a
27:42
Speaker 1: conductor or a ranger. She was either a conductor or
27:45
Speaker 1: a ranger for Danny Elfman on Batman. She does the
27:51
Speaker 1: score here, and so Darren, I'll throw this to you first.
27:54
Speaker 1: Does this work for you as a Batman score? Does
27:56
Speaker 1: it feel derivative of Elfman? Or does it feel like
28:00
Speaker 1: it stands on its own two feet.
28:01
Speaker 3: I mean that opening sequence with the is it is
28:05
Speaker 3: it Russian music that they're playing and they're singing the
28:08
Speaker 3: Batman theme.
28:09
Speaker 4: I thought I was watching Red October.
28:10
Speaker 3: I totally thought I was watching but I don't. I
28:13
Speaker 3: don't Red October a side. I need more of that.
28:16
Speaker 3: It was so evocative of like, Okay, it was such
28:21
Speaker 3: a buckle up here we go moment. You're using the
28:25
Speaker 3: the CGI mix shots of the pullback through Gotham, so
28:29
Speaker 3: it's like, Okay, it's animated, but it's different. It's like, oh,
28:32
Speaker 3: it's a budget here. I'm seeing the budget literally on
28:36
Speaker 3: the screen and the music as you're like, it's almost
28:40
Speaker 3: like there's words for this song, like it's so it
28:43
Speaker 3: was so powerful and then it's just all off to
28:46
Speaker 3: the races for the entire thing from the uh, you know,
28:49
Speaker 3: the moments we have the World's Fair, all the World's
28:52
Speaker 3: Fair themes were like just pitch perfectly you felt in
28:56
Speaker 3: that time, you know, to the moments he's talking to
28:59
Speaker 3: his parents and the past, and it isn't relying I
29:03
Speaker 3: mean there's moments, but it's not relying solely on the
29:06
Speaker 3: you know, okay, Batman's on screen, gotta throw in the
29:09
Speaker 3: da da da da da da da. It's like no, no, no,
29:11
Speaker 3: Like the they were way more subtle than that. You know,
29:13
Speaker 3: the Joker's not always coming around the corner to his
29:16
Speaker 3: Joker xylophone theme. You know. It greats grades score. Like
29:21
Speaker 3: I said, they had me hooked from that opening bit.
29:24
Speaker 3: I I'll roound it and watched it again because it's
29:27
Speaker 3: just it's I can imagine your old ten year olds
29:30
Speaker 3: or twelve year old sitting down and being like, oh, oh,
29:35
Speaker 3: this is amazing.
29:36
Speaker 1: I'm glad you called out that first cube because I
29:38
Speaker 1: do remember sitting in the theater and like it starts
29:41
Speaker 1: up and it's like, yeah, you know, we'll see what
29:42
Speaker 1: and like that was sort of the declaration of like
29:45
Speaker 1: sit down, we're serious here, and it was like oh cool,
29:48
Speaker 1: Like I remember just everything shifting in that first thirty seconds.
29:52
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, this is a thing, okay.
29:54
Speaker 3: And how do you top the intro like the Batman
29:57
Speaker 3: the animated series intro. It's obviously, but it is like
30:01
Speaker 3: such like I never skipped that intro, so now you
30:04
Speaker 3: have to one up that and people.
30:06
Speaker 4: Are still today in twenty twenty six, messing with it,
30:10
Speaker 4: making their own versions of it, making CGI versions, cleaning
30:14
Speaker 4: it up, or making alternate versions. It just it has
30:17
Speaker 4: impacted our generation so hard that we cannot shake it.
30:21
Speaker 3: Yeah.
30:21
Speaker 1: Well, as a fun side note, because his name comes
30:24
Speaker 1: up an awful lot for us, but Hans Zimmer himself
30:27
Speaker 1: is actually featured. He played synthesizer on this score. So
30:30
Speaker 1: it's like that little scamp was everywhere from the beginning,
30:34
Speaker 1: and it's it's kind of wild because you know, just
30:38
Speaker 1: as a serious side note with that, Zimmer's always been
30:41
Speaker 1: so good about supporting other musicians in so many different ways,
30:45
Speaker 1: and like, you know, appearing and playing with them or
30:48
Speaker 1: helping them fix an arrangement and stuff like that. He
30:50
Speaker 1: always seems to be like a very giving sort of artist.
30:53
Speaker 1: Please nobody chatter that illusion and tell me that he's actually, like,
30:56
Speaker 1: you know, the worst person in the world, because that's
31:00
Speaker 1: the vision of him that I have. But you know,
31:04
Speaker 1: we're sitting here, we're seeing a lot of we're singing
31:06
Speaker 1: a lot of praises of the film. I'd be curious, Tristan,
31:10
Speaker 1: where do you see points where it falls short in
31:13
Speaker 1: terms of its storytelling or its structure? What doesn't work here.
31:16
Speaker 4: I think the structure itself. I think it's structure is
31:18
Speaker 4: a little a little all over the place because it's
31:21
Speaker 4: not really consistent in with my interest, and I think
31:26
Speaker 4: that's a common mistake just in movies in general. I think,
31:29
Speaker 4: like I was just talking with you the other day
31:31
Speaker 4: about the ups and downs of The Mandalorin and gro
31:34
Speaker 4: Gup movie, Like, it's clearly a five X structure, and
31:37
Speaker 4: you have Act two and Act four which drags. They
31:40
Speaker 4: have really great stuff in them, I mean, it's not
31:42
Speaker 4: like their crap acts, but they drag painfully, and I
31:46
Speaker 4: feel like this movie kind of suffers the same fate
31:50
Speaker 4: where you have structure where things are really exciting and
31:54
Speaker 4: really interesting, and then you just feel like, Okay, I'm
31:56
Speaker 4: going to tune out for a little bit. Even though
31:58
Speaker 4: this movie's only what eighty minutes, it's long, not even
32:02
Speaker 4: seventy six minutes, seventy six minutes, it feels like at
32:05
Speaker 4: the halfway mark, it feels like you're at a forty
32:09
Speaker 4: five minute or a fifty minute halfway point. And so
32:11
Speaker 4: I feel like that might be the problem, is that
32:13
Speaker 4: it just feels uneven, like with the flashbacks, with the
32:15
Speaker 4: investigation with the Joker, you kind of get this back
32:20
Speaker 4: and forth, but at the same time you're just like, wait,
32:22
Speaker 4: is this modern Andrea or is this flashback Andrea?
32:25
Speaker 3: Is the dad still alive?
32:26
Speaker 1: Is?
32:26
Speaker 4: It's just I don't know. It just felt a little
32:29
Speaker 4: all over the place to me, Darren, Darren, what do
32:30
Speaker 4: you think? Am I way off pace here?
32:32
Speaker 3: No? I have the same vibes, especially two things with
32:35
Speaker 3: the flashback one. I also was like, oh, are we
32:39
Speaker 3: in the past now? Because they're not that different, like
32:43
Speaker 3: drawn when they're in the past versus the present, like honestly,
32:47
Speaker 3: Alfred is the lightning Rod? Is Alfred of dark hair?
32:49
Speaker 3: Or does he have white hair? That makes it the
32:52
Speaker 3: most clear, But when you start to add it up,
32:56
Speaker 3: I think it's easy to look at this movie and
32:58
Speaker 3: be how many and we actually spent in the present,
33:02
Speaker 3: like with this actual story and this investigation, And because
33:06
Speaker 3: it's definitely not a I'm watching the past and the
33:10
Speaker 3: and the present keeps cutting in, it's I'm watching the
33:12
Speaker 3: present and the past keeps cutting in. And I would
33:16
Speaker 3: have liked a little more present, especially towards the end
33:20
Speaker 3: as Batman is figuring it out. I needed more of
33:22
Speaker 3: a collision course of Batman and the Phantasm approaching each other,
33:27
Speaker 3: like obviously they have the chase and all of that,
33:29
Speaker 3: but I felt like we were detectively figuring it out
33:33
Speaker 3: through the flashbacks. But that's not how Batman was figuring
33:36
Speaker 3: it out. He was figuring out through detectiveness in the present.
33:40
Speaker 3: So it was just it was weird. We were both
33:42
Speaker 3: learning things in the story in different ways. But see
33:46
Speaker 3: I I I think the structure works specifically because of
33:51
Speaker 3: something that you said, Tristan, because it's supposed to cast
33:53
Speaker 3: a question, at least on your first viewing of whether
33:56
Speaker 3: the father is alive or not. I understand, and the criticism.
34:01
Speaker 3: I don't feel the drag. I'm completely ready and willing
34:05
Speaker 3: to admit that that first viewing will always stick with me.
34:10
Speaker 3: You can't shake that sort of thing. So it's possible
34:12
Speaker 3: I look at it through rose colored glasses, but I do.
34:17
Speaker 3: This is a movie that.
34:19
Speaker 1: For comparison's sake, we just talked about nineteen eighty nine
34:21
Speaker 1: Batman in nineteen ninety two Batman Returns. Batman Returns is
34:25
Speaker 1: a movie that I've sort of did this. This word's
34:28
Speaker 1: too heavy for it, but it makes my point. I've
34:30
Speaker 1: sort of struggled with how I feel about it through time.
34:32
Speaker 1: There were times where I loved it, there were times
34:34
Speaker 1: where I hated it. I don't love or hate it anymore,
34:37
Speaker 1: but I don't, you know, it's still weird to me.
34:41
Speaker 1: Mask of the Phantasm is one of the Batman movies
34:44
Speaker 1: I can come to and I know I'm gonna like
34:46
Speaker 1: it no matter what it is in that sense like
34:48
Speaker 1: eighty nine's Batman, where I'm never going to regret watching
34:52
Speaker 1: this movie. I'm never going to come away with this
34:55
Speaker 1: with less of a positive opinion about it. And I
34:59
Speaker 1: think that part of it is because the structure does
35:02
Speaker 1: throw me a little off kilter. It made it feel
35:04
Speaker 1: a little more unexpected, right, I wasn't. I didn't feel
35:07
Speaker 1: like I could anticipate every single beat that went on,
35:10
Speaker 1: and maybe that's just That's like there was a time
35:13
Speaker 1: my late uncle, he was a tremendous chess player. He
35:17
Speaker 1: was like ranked when he was in college sort of
35:19
Speaker 1: chess player, and I wound up battling him to a
35:21
Speaker 1: draw one time because I just played completely without any
35:24
Speaker 1: strategy whatsoever, on a timer and it confused the hell
35:27
Speaker 1: out of him, and he was like.
35:28
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a pretty good game.
35:29
Speaker 1: But I was like, I have no idea what I did,
35:31
Speaker 1: and I think maybe that's happening here where it's like
35:33
Speaker 1: they it is a mess, but like I'm just like, oh, okay,
35:37
Speaker 1: I didn't know what to what you were doing here,
35:39
Speaker 1: So that's fine.
35:40
Speaker 2: That works for me. Maybe maybe not.
35:42
Speaker 1: I think that Hart Backner's character, you know, Ellis from Diehard,
35:48
Speaker 1: plays a great voice role here as the councilman who
35:52
Speaker 1: the joker hits with the laughing gas and Arthur Reeves
35:57
Speaker 1: and the scene where he is laughing hysterically is I
36:04
Speaker 1: think should be given to actors and actresses, whether their
36:07
Speaker 1: voice or on screen, along with Morgan Freeman's laugh from
36:10
Speaker 1: Shawshank Redemption to say, this is a true test moment
36:14
Speaker 1: for you. Can you laugh like that and make the
36:16
Speaker 1: audience believe that you're laughing? And I think that when
36:20
Speaker 1: you combine performances like that with a difficult to predict structure,
36:25
Speaker 1: I think it's a more positive outcome, at least from
36:28
Speaker 1: my perspective. And I think you mix all of that together. Now,
36:32
Speaker 1: this movie is seventy six minutes, so I think it
36:35
Speaker 1: would be a sin to sort of belabor any points
36:38
Speaker 1: here so I think I will, you know, as we
36:42
Speaker 1: love to say, well, round third and we'll come in here.
36:45
Speaker 1: We're approaching the plate, Darren, I'll throw it to you.
36:48
Speaker 3: First.
36:48
Speaker 1: Final thoughts and you're rating for Batman Mask of the Phantasm.
36:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean final thoughts. I definitely want to mention
36:56
Speaker 3: the first time watching it and the reveal, because that
37:00
Speaker 3: is a big reveal of like who is the fan,
37:02
Speaker 3: Like I did not see it coming that it was
37:05
Speaker 3: going to be her, because they do a great job
37:07
Speaker 3: of setting it up as the dad or some mysterious
37:10
Speaker 3: figure at the beginning, so that you know you have
37:14
Speaker 3: to again look at your in your mind of like, Okay,
37:16
Speaker 3: I'm a child and I'm I like Batman the animate series,
37:19
Speaker 3: and I'm watching it. Oh my gosh, it was the
37:21
Speaker 3: love interest, you know, with lots of patting, But yeah,
37:27
Speaker 3: it was. I think I give it definitely props for
37:30
Speaker 3: that for pulling off a convincing reveal, because I didn't
37:34
Speaker 3: feel like I was not given enough information to judge
37:37
Speaker 3: that myself, Like you're given that at the appropriate time
37:41
Speaker 3: to figure it out. So reveals like that are kind
37:43
Speaker 3: of trickier to land. But overall, you know, this is
37:47
Speaker 3: an enjoyable movie, you know, from from the score to
37:51
Speaker 3: the visual style. I mean, if I have to say
37:54
Speaker 3: animated wise, like this is my Batman, the one I
37:57
Speaker 3: grew up on. This introduced me to it, but I
38:01
Speaker 3: would always think of the show over this. I wouldn't
38:03
Speaker 3: think of like, oh, but you know, if I really
38:06
Speaker 3: want a condensed great seventy six minutes of Batman the
38:09
Speaker 3: animated series, I'm going to watch the movie. Like, no,
38:11
Speaker 3: I'm going to watch a couple of episodes, so not
38:15
Speaker 3: not super disparagingly. I'm just going to give it a
38:18
Speaker 3: I'm going to give it a too. It's it's a
38:21
Speaker 3: good movie. It tells me a lot, but I rarely
38:25
Speaker 3: watch this one. It does not have a lot of
38:27
Speaker 3: re revisibility for me. It's like once you get the
38:32
Speaker 3: hook and the reveal and that great ending. Yeah, the
38:35
Speaker 3: only part I rewatched was the opening music. But so
38:39
Speaker 3: I say that with love, like I'm giving it a two.
38:42
Speaker 3: It's not a terrible movie. It's not a bad movie,
38:45
Speaker 3: but it's just not in the in the pantheon of
38:48
Speaker 3: Batman movies we're going through. I'm trying. I'm trying to
38:51
Speaker 3: balance my scale because otherwise it's going to be a
38:54
Speaker 3: very interesting show. So to two batter rangs, two giant
38:58
Speaker 3: turbofan props destroyed by the Batpike.
39:03
Speaker 1: Tristan, I'm going to go next. I'm going to give
39:05
Speaker 1: it to you last, because I have a feeling this
39:07
Speaker 1: is going to be a sandwich review thing, because I
39:10
Speaker 1: think I'm going to be the outlier here, and I'm
39:14
Speaker 1: not going to make your typical sort of excuses of like.
39:16
Speaker 2: Well, you know, you got to take nostalgia into account.
39:18
Speaker 1: No, this is a movie that consistently I have come
39:21
Speaker 1: in at four and a half stars. There's no wavering
39:25
Speaker 1: on that. I recognize it's not a perfect movie, but
39:28
Speaker 1: I also recognize it as one of the best on
39:31
Speaker 1: screen Batman presentations period. I think that it's a fun excursion.
39:37
Speaker 1: It does not overstay, it's welcome. It would have been
39:40
Speaker 1: really easy for Warner Brothers to say, well, it's gonna
39:42
Speaker 1: be Theastico. We need another ten minutes on here too,
39:45
Speaker 1: add something on to it, add another car chase, something
39:47
Speaker 1: like that. Is extremely lean, it's very focused. I think
39:52
Speaker 1: Delaney is great. I think all of the voice acting
39:55
Speaker 1: is superlative in this. Hearing a Vagoda as a mobster again,
40:00
Speaker 1: was so much fun, Stacy Keach, you know, I mean
40:05
Speaker 1: Hart Backner like, it's such a tremendous voice cast. I
40:10
Speaker 1: think that it's engaging, it's fun. I love the score.
40:15
Speaker 1: So I am at a solid four and a half
40:17
Speaker 1: for this. So we go from two for Darren to
40:20
Speaker 1: four and a half for me. Bring me back down
40:22
Speaker 1: to earth, Tristan, where are we coming in?
40:24
Speaker 4: Given this a three? I'm given this a solid three.
40:27
Speaker 4: I think this is really enjoyable. It's good. I like it,
40:30
Speaker 4: but it does have its issues. I don't think it's
40:32
Speaker 4: a perfect film. I think it's a really good Batman film,
40:37
Speaker 4: but I think it's a great episode. I think if
40:40
Speaker 4: this was straight to DBD or straight to VHS, straight
40:44
Speaker 4: to home video, I would say this is amazing. Why
40:46
Speaker 4: didn't they release this in theaters? And if I saw
40:49
Speaker 4: it in theaters, I'd be like, No, that was good,
40:50
Speaker 4: that was good, that's cool, that's cool. It probably should
40:53
Speaker 4: have been straight to video probably, So like I'm in
40:55
Speaker 4: this middle ground where the performances are great, the animation
40:59
Speaker 4: is stellar, the structure is a little weird. I think
41:01
Speaker 4: the story's almost there, not quite, but I do love
41:07
Speaker 4: that this was a love Letter to Batman Year one
41:10
Speaker 4: and Batman Year two. It's so you can see how
41:13
Speaker 4: much of it is pulled from those comics, from those
41:16
Speaker 4: classic comics, and I really think that that in itself
41:20
Speaker 4: is enough to warrant a watch. But when you stand
41:22
Speaker 4: up up against the like you know, Darren was saying,
41:25
Speaker 4: the pantheon of Batman, it's just not up there. So
41:29
Speaker 4: this is a solid three. I like it, no knock
41:31
Speaker 4: against it, but it's not. It's not something I'm going
41:34
Speaker 4: to give a four or five. Two.
41:35
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad that the rest of the audience, as
41:38
Speaker 1: they are listening to this, I know that they agree
41:40
Speaker 1: with me more than they agree with the two of you.
41:42
Speaker 1: But we springboard from mask of the Phantasm into possibly
41:46
Speaker 1: some of the most contentious area of the Batman on
41:50
Speaker 1: screen representations. Darren, what does that mean? Where are we
41:57
Speaker 1: going from here?
41:58
Speaker 3: Oh, the camp's coming back in a very unique way.
42:02
Speaker 3: Next week we're covering Joel Schulmacher's two instances with Batman
42:07
Speaker 3: Forever from nineteen ninety five and Batman and Robin from
42:11
Speaker 3: ninety seven. Next on House Lights, Join the Revolution, Join
42:17
Speaker 3: the Ned Party,