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234: The Bold Shift Ranching Needs Now with Dan Leahy · CattleUSA Daily

0:00
Today we are welcoming Dan Leahy on to the podcast.
0:03
Dan has worked as a consulting ranch manager for over 20 years.
0:08
In 2018, he and two others started the Foundation for Ranch
0:12
Management to describe and support the exploding demand for
0:16
professional ranch managers in the US.
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After raising his five boys with his wife Maggie, they now live
0:22
on the road full time, typically working at a different ranch
0:26
every season. So when Dan says that he has
0:29
seen it all, this man has seen it all.
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In today's conversation, we are talking about his ranch
0:35
management foundation. We're talking about ranch
0:37
management just in general. We're talking about
0:39
apprenticeships. We talked about region.
0:41
We talk about so many different topics that Dan has encountered
0:46
over his years on multiple different ranches and some
0:50
really hard truths that he leaves with our listeners as
0:53
well. Before we hop into today's
0:55
episode with Dan, if you guys are watching on YouTube, please
0:58
take a second to make sure you hit that subscribe button and
1:00
like this episode. And if you're watching on any of
1:03
our other podcast platforms, make sure that you take a second
1:06
to go rate and review this show and make sure that you're
1:09
following it as well. Without further ado, let's go
1:12
ahead and hop into this podcast episode with Dan.
1:20
Welcome to the Cattle USA Daily podcast, your go to source for
1:23
the latest livestock markets, industry insights and the
1:26
updates shaping agriculture today.
1:28
I'm your host, Lauren Moylan, a passionate advocate for
1:31
agriculture here to keep you informed and connected.
1:34
Now let's dive into today's episode.
1:43
Dan, welcome to the podcast. We are so excited to welcome you
1:47
on. I want to kind of open us up
1:48
with the fact that, like you as an individual have spent over 20
1:52
years showing up on other people's ranches.
1:55
What problems are you seeing over and over again that made
1:59
you realize that ranch management itself was broken,
2:01
not just the production practices?
2:03
And with that, I would love it if you could also just share
2:06
more about yourself and how you got into ranch management and
2:09
what you're doing now in the cattle industry.
2:11
Sure. Thanks for having me.
2:13
Nice to be here, Lauren, and thanks for the invitation just
2:16
the other day. I always try to meet my
2:18
audience, you know, kind of where they're at.
2:21
And so you gave me a little bit of idea that that your audience
2:25
is pretty much over the board. And so I'll just give a general
2:29
response to that. I had an early career in home
2:31
building and was very successful, but wasn't my first
2:36
love and it was timely for me to move.
2:39
So my wife said, you know, this is now or never so and it was a
2:43
really natural transition for me, but I started in some wood
2:47
products related projects, moved on to mining and exploration
2:51
ranches, rangelands, all natural resource industry type projects.
2:57
Eventually about 12 years ago, I just focused start focusing
3:01
entirely on ranches. So, you know, there's no,
3:06
there's no shortage of work in this in this business.
3:09
And all of my work has been word of mouth.
3:12
It's just we roll. My wife and I finished raising
3:15
our boys four years ago. And she said, when you leave
3:18
again, I'm going with you. So we loaded up the coach and
3:22
we've been on the road since then.
3:24
And it allows us to be very flexible.
3:26
And when we do hear of a need, we can go there.
3:29
We can actually be there on site, and that's the way we
3:32
prefer to work. These are all deeply human
3:35
issues surrounded by physical issues.
3:37
But it's always the people that drives our our our
3:41
circumstances. And that's the way it should be.
3:43
That's the way it should be, you know, win or lose, succeed or
3:47
fail, if that human element isn't healthy, everything else
3:50
is difficult to impossible. So we very much enjoy some of
3:53
our best friends or our clients. Absolutely.
3:56
And that's the best part about the industry that we live in, I
3:58
think. Is there a story or a situation
4:00
that really just kind of made you see like this entire
4:05
everything is broken within this, like we are approaching
4:08
this in all of the wrong ways, There is a better way to do this
4:13
and how you kind of stepped into that?
4:15
Well, somebody once told me that fixing problems is easy, and I'm
4:20
not sure exactly what he meant by that.
4:23
I think what he really meant was, you know, walk wading into
4:26
a situation with somewhat objective perspective and naming
4:31
everything that's wrong and then leaving is pretty much the
4:33
reputation that consultants have.
4:36
So the difference being, and I think what he was referring to
4:38
was the hard part is seeing it through.
4:41
You know, and and it's true that in the consulting world, far
4:46
less than 10% of the consultants workers ever implemented, no
4:50
matter how good the idea is, because there is every other
4:53
reality impinging upon each situation.
4:56
Maybe timing, maybe personalities, maybe lack of
4:59
capital, could be any number of things that keeps those best
5:01
ideas for being implemented. But you have to know, you
5:06
realize that going in, you certainly can't take it
5:08
personally. But the one way that you can
5:10
overcome that is try to remain involved indefinitely.
5:14
And we have ranches where we're literally still the ranch
5:17
manager and we, we only give input to, you know, a few, a few
5:20
times a year. But we have good people in those
5:22
positions now and they're doing well.
5:24
So that just requires a little bit of consistent interest in
5:29
their continued success. Yeah, absolutely.
5:32
As far as like that ranch management aspect goes, and
5:35
really looking into that, what over the past few years made you
5:39
really look at this as like, hey, this is a necessary aspect
5:43
to a lot of people's businesses and it's no longer optional.
5:47
It's truly something that you need to be successful in this
5:49
business. Right.
5:51
And maybe not, you know, up until about 20 years ago, did
5:54
this really become so obvious if you had a much higher?
5:58
Well, we now know almost twice as many family ranches 10 years
6:01
ago than we have today. And those family ranches to
6:06
various degrees had a structure. They had a family structure and
6:09
they had a heritage that guided them.
6:12
We can get into how effective they were on the land, that's a
6:16
different matter. But in terms of how the Man
6:19
Ranch acquired management horsepower, it came from the
6:23
family and that is changing very rapidly.
6:26
But the way the way I personally got involved in studying this
6:31
issue is in my line of work, I might go in and reorganize a
6:36
property, but I didn't have to replace myself.
6:39
So I was hiring all the time. And so it was, it was through
6:43
that experience of realizing ranching is geographically
6:50
fragmented. There's a lot of subcultures
6:53
within ranching. You know, I think that's less
6:57
and less with, with the advent of media people, there's much
7:00
greater understanding of Wyoming Cowboys, of Texas Cowboys, of
7:05
Florida Cowboys, you know, that kind of regional differences.
7:08
But 20 years ago, that was still the case.
7:11
And so you literally had to go into a certain market and find a
7:15
certain type of person for a certain location or they
7:17
wouldn't be happy. The professionalism had not yet
7:20
arrived. And so that's what really
7:23
intrigued me. You know, I'm a systems person.
7:25
And so I kept thinking to myself, well, first of all, you
7:28
know, you can't complain if you don't try to do something about
7:32
it and contribute to an answer, you can't complain.
7:35
So a lot of windshield time thinking about it.
7:39
And then we we lit upon myself and a couple partners lit upon
7:42
this idea of, well, let's start a foundation.
7:44
And it can be, you know, a basis for our research.
7:48
You know, it'll give us entry into corporate boardrooms into,
7:52
you know, family ranches, what not to ask the questions that a
7:55
lot of people want to know answers to.
7:58
So we did that and we started out asking successful ranch
8:02
managers this the exact same questions.
8:05
And so we would take those answers and we would compare
8:07
them with our database and we continually mold that body of
8:11
knowledge using kind of using the 8020 rule if it applied in
8:15
80% of the instances that from our experience that we would
8:17
include it. And so, you know, not unlike a
8:20
university or or ranch management program might come up
8:22
with a syllabus, you know, our course of study, we did it in
8:27
our own way and we can't, that's how we came up with the four
8:30
year apprenticeship and ranch management.
8:33
So transitioning into that apprenticeship, this is such a
8:36
unique concept within agriculture.
8:39
We see apprenticeships all across different industries.
8:43
We see, I mean, if you're going to get a job in a corporate
8:45
office, most of them require you to do an internship of some
8:48
sort. But we don't see things like
8:50
that required and ranch management.
8:52
And I think that the opportunity that you guys have done there is
8:55
so unique and so just needed within the industry.
8:58
So I'd love it if you could just share a little bit more about
9:01
the heart behind the ranch internships that you guys do,
9:04
the apprenticeships that you do, and then also just like how you
9:07
filter that into businesses and continue that cycle of people
9:11
getting into ranching. Sure.
9:13
So everybody's pretty much aware that as a young person enters
9:18
into the ag industry, they have a combination of knowledge,
9:22
education and training or real world experience.
9:27
And it depends on where you come from life as to what your skill
9:31
set and your knowledge base is at any given point in time.
9:34
My point is that life, it certainly isn't linear and
9:39
neither should a program be linear.
9:41
So our goal when we went to write it down on paper was to be
9:46
for it to be simple, for it to be flexible and also intuitive.
9:53
And I felt if we could accomplish those three things in
9:57
some fashion that somebody would make use of it at some point.
10:02
It was never intended to be at, you got to start here at 18 and
10:05
you got to follow these steps in this order.
10:08
It just looks that way on paper out of necessity, right?
10:12
So, so that's how the, the, the apprenticeship and we use the
10:19
western base model, bet base ranch model as our ranching
10:23
model because it's the one we're most familiar with.
10:26
It's very complex. So again, if you go to another
10:31
area of the country, you know you're going to, your situation
10:34
is going to look much different. You're in Missouri and you know,
10:38
a ranch in Missouri is 200 acres of excellent grass and that's
10:42
just not happening. It can't happen in the West.
10:44
And, and so it's going to look different, but yeah, we, we
10:49
published it two years ago. It, we have copies of it for
10:53
ranches and, and individuals who want to, to employ it in their
10:59
apprenticeship. And we have some really good
11:02
examples of people and a lot of them work had already come out
11:06
of a four year program and realized that their experience
11:12
was lacking and they needed to start a very deliberate process
11:16
of bringing their their knowledge and, and gaining the
11:19
experience and putting them together in a very conscious
11:23
way. Yeah, absolutely.
11:25
Can you break down a little bit more about like the nitty gritty
11:28
in the program like so someone's like, OK, this what explain it
11:33
just what the program looks like from like day one until someone
11:37
kind of graduates quote, UN quote, I know they never really
11:40
graduate from that program, but as they graduate from the
11:44
apprenticeship part of that program, what does that look
11:46
like? And then what does it also look
11:47
like for ranches to implement this apprenticeship?
11:50
Concept. Yeah, it's a good question.
11:52
So for a while I think we treated the mentor and The
11:55
Apprentice question lies with chicken or egg problem and a lot
11:58
of conversations with a lot of very, very bright people trying
12:02
to pull this issue apart and say, where do you start?
12:04
Rachel Frost at Montana State University has been an excellent
12:08
partner for us. And we go on hours and hours
12:11
about, you know, these questions and about where is the leverage
12:15
points? Where can you really serve young
12:17
people best? Where can you serve the ranch
12:19
best with these kinds of services?
12:22
And we've, we've come to the conclusion that it's not a
12:26
chicken or egg problem there. Apprentice and the mentor are,
12:30
there's not one more important than the other and one might
12:33
appear before the other. That's just human status, human
12:36
status. And so we try to give guidance,
12:40
general guidance, helpful guidance both to The Apprentice
12:43
and the mentor so that even before that relationship
12:47
materializes, they can start preparing themselves for it
12:51
because it, it really does require preparation.
12:53
There are a few good examples of ranchers, experienced ranchers
12:58
who are also good teachers, but it's not the norm because they
13:02
excel at ranching, not necessarily a teaching.
13:06
And so as long as as an individual is aware of it, of
13:09
their themselves and their their circumstances and maybe their
13:13
propensity is to behave a certain way in a certain set of
13:16
circumstances, then you can be prepared.
13:18
You know, you're self aware. And then for the young person as
13:22
well, you know, that's one of my greatest challenges for young
13:25
people is you are young and you are less aware of yourself today
13:31
than you will be a year from now and 10 years from now.
13:33
OK, that's life, you know. So, you know, we often use the
13:38
expression lovingly of young people.
13:41
I wish they could just get out of their way, their own way,
13:44
right? But here's the key for us as
13:47
teachers is we must remember what life was like for ourselves
13:52
when we were there at that age. It's just as challenging, was
13:55
just as awkward. It was just as frustrating and
13:58
scared, scary as as it is for them.
14:01
So if we can do that as mentors, we can have empathy.
14:05
And that's a great starting point if, if a ranch believes
14:09
that they are ready for some kind of a structured program, I
14:12
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Cattle. Yeah.
15:11
One of your really big pillars is bringing in that next
15:14
generation and continuing the legacy that we have in ranching
15:18
and just making it this thing that isn't like far reach
15:23
attainable. You're you're making it
15:24
attainable for people, right, to continue to evolve and grow
15:28
their businesses as ranches. But then say, Hey, I also have
15:32
this opportunity for you to bring in the next generation to
15:35
bring in people that are going to help you continue to grow
15:37
your business. Because I mean, if we're going
15:39
to do it long term, you can't do it by yourself.
15:41
And you talk a lot about your gentrification as well, about
15:44
how we are seeing a older and older population within
15:48
ranching. Can you kind of break your
15:50
thoughts down on that and how this apprenticeship also plays
15:53
into that and the importance of kind of bringing in that next
15:56
generation? True.
15:58
Yeah. So gentrification is is it is a
16:00
term that can be applied to a lot of different human
16:02
circumstances. But, but essentially for those
16:06
people who not used the word before, you're talking about the
16:10
changing of one generation to another in terms of often a
16:15
complex asset. OK, that's that's how it
16:18
materializes in our world. So we take the example, for
16:22
instance of an inner city. You have a certain population
16:26
that that occupies that inner city for a certain reason.
16:29
Like so for during the Industrial Revolution, the
16:32
people lived in the city and worked in those factories.
16:36
They characterized the population of that city.
16:40
OK, well, let's say the factories go away and and The
16:44
Who doesn't move away, grows old there.
16:47
They have no retirement, they run out of money, they default,
16:50
you know, and then you have deterioration in the inner city,
16:53
right? Maybe crime is another factor.
16:57
Well, eventually the values, the use of that land is going to dip
17:02
below its potential value. And somebody with capital is
17:06
going to look at the be watching that situation and they're going
17:08
to say their model no longer works and they're seeing
17:13
deterioration. So it is that next generation of
17:18
capital that is watching this, this cycle, this is it's a human
17:23
cycle, it's a societal cycle. They're watching it how it's
17:26
affecting the asset, in this case real estate.
17:30
And there is a timing factor involved at.
17:34
But at some point they're going to judge that it's in their
17:37
interest to go in there and acquire that asset at a certain
17:41
price because they have a plan for that asset going forward.
17:46
And that's when you see the revitalization of inner cities
17:50
is because that process of gentrification is proceeding in
17:54
ranching. I'll try to make this quick.
17:56
In ranching, we set on a course 100 and 25130 years ago, we said
18:07
on a course of ranching in in the United States in a certain
18:11
way, whether it was the Homestead Act or whether it was
18:17
the grazing Acts, whether it was the invention of barbed wire or
18:21
any other of those things that happened as a matter of course
18:25
about part of our history. Ranching followed certain veins,
18:29
if you will, certain paths of development, and one of the
18:33
consequences of those paths of development was continuous
18:37
grazing. And there are a lot of different
18:39
names for it, but this is one of the things that I wanted to dip
18:43
into. So I'll just kind of use this as
18:45
my opportunity as we talk about gentrification.
18:47
But with continuous grazing, you get highly concentrated
18:51
utilization of the land and that highly concentrated utilization
18:56
brings with it at this negative effects.
18:58
Ultimately, you just have a situation where the entire
19:03
circumstance is just becoming exhausted and you know, you just
19:07
see that in different ways. You see it in Creek bottoms,
19:10
exhibits itself a certain way, you see it on the plains and so
19:13
forth. How does that compare with the
19:15
inner city? Well, you saw decline.
19:17
You saw decline in carrying capacity and the ability for
19:21
pastures to to regenerate. We saw lack of future vision
19:28
regarding the use of water, high, high uses of water for low
19:31
value crops, that type of imbalance.
19:33
And then you add into that all of the other natural cycles that
19:37
that we go on. And each time if you have a
19:40
scenario, let's call it a ranching scenario of a given
19:43
ranch in a given location, a given ranching scenario goes
19:47
through several ranching cycles. They are going to either
19:51
generally be stronger as a result of their practices or
19:55
they'll be weaker and those weaker scenarios when a natural
19:59
cycle comes along well, then you then all that was all that
20:04
potential damage and and potential disaster that was
20:07
always there is plain to see it comes to fruition.
20:11
So when at the and at the same one more point, Lauren, one more
20:16
point at the same time we had. A failure in our agricultural
20:21
policy, which essentially ultimately kept everything at a
20:26
commodity level. And what's worse than that is
20:29
when inflation became the norm, when inflation started building
20:35
without being checked or reversed, the agricultural
20:40
models were were never designed for that.
20:43
And so if your inputs go up indefinitely and your income
20:46
stays the same or flat or it is in decline, even with just short
20:51
term cycles in decline, you're going to see again a situation
20:55
where it's weakening. All the ranch is weakening all
20:57
along. And then a certain set of
20:59
circumstances comes along and puts it on its knees.
21:02
OK, Long story short, when that happens, you have a bargain sale
21:10
potential for an asset. It's no more complicated than
21:14
that. At the same time, the money
21:17
class in the United States over the last 30 years has gone
21:21
vertical, meaning it's way beyond the rich have gotten
21:25
richer. This is a new type of rich.
21:28
But what that means is there's so much cash awash in that
21:33
echelon of the economy that paying well, it's just funny
21:39
money. Paying $20 million for a
21:41
$7,000,000 ranch is of no consequence to the buyer.
21:46
It's discretionary. It's money they can afford to
21:49
lose, right? We can have a whole nother
21:51
conversation about the motivations that cause them that
21:55
individual to do that doesn't really matter, but they do.
21:58
We know that. And so that is gentrification
22:05
and the new buyer, the investor buyer of that heritage Ranch has
22:12
a completely different mindset from what drove that that ranch
22:16
to that situation in the 1st place.
22:18
It's it's private, it's their own motivations, but it's
22:21
different. Does that make Yeah, makes
22:23
sense? Absolutely.
22:25
It makes perfect sense. I mean, I feel like we've also
22:27
seen it for a really long time. You could go back to oil money
22:31
buying ranches and different, like we've seen it in different,
22:35
the same story written a little differently for a really long
22:38
time. But now we're seeing it at a
22:40
whole new level. I think is the biggest thing
22:43
that we're seeing with this rule economy and the gentrification
22:47
there and just the rapid pace that it's happening at now, I
22:52
think we have a lot more eyes on it than we did 10-15 years ago.
22:55
Because it was really normal 1015 years ago for ranch
22:59
managers to go manage a ranch in Texas that they were managing
23:03
thousands of head of cattle for people that had never been in
23:06
ranching before. But you know, it's a great tax
23:09
write off and they had money, discretionary money to spend.
23:12
But now we're seeing it at different levels and it's
23:15
interesting to see the way that it's impacting and affecting the
23:19
cattle industry and how it's going to affect that next
23:23
generation within the cattle industry.
23:25
I love what you said earlier about a lot of people like to
23:28
complain about things, but you can't really complain unless you
23:30
have a solution to that complaint.
23:33
Like you can sit here and you can complain all day, but what
23:35
good is it going to do unless you have something that's
23:38
actually going to move us forward?
23:40
So with that, what are your thoughts on as we move forward
23:44
as we deal with this? Because it's a real thing and
23:46
it's not something that's going to stop.
23:48
It's not something that's going to completely change because I
23:50
mean someone came and offered me $50 million for my $5,000,000
23:54
ranch. I can't necessarily say that I
23:56
would say no to that. But what what are your thoughts
23:59
and what it like as we move forward for the next generation
24:02
coming in, the generation that's moving out just all, all of
24:05
those things? Sure.
24:06
And this kind of ties in might be a mini commercial for our
24:10
presentation at NCBA and in February.
24:12
But one of the things that again that we talked to young people
24:17
about a lot because they're being bombarded with it.
24:20
On one hand, you know, you know, we just call them the buzzwords
24:25
that the trend of the, of the year of the trend of the deck
24:27
deck, starting with holistic management and then, you know,
24:32
what is organic and, and just right on down the line to, to
24:35
now it's regenerative ranching. But I like to, I like to, to
24:39
kind of arrest that, that line of thinking even I love all the
24:44
training that's online. I mean, it's, it's, it's timely.
24:49
It comes from a variety of perspectives.
24:51
So, you know, you can really exercise your intellect by
24:54
listening to a variety of people talking about the same subject
24:58
in the same same time period, you know, in the same year,
25:02
because we're smart enough to figure out what's real and what
25:05
isn't it. Particularly if we, if we do
25:07
know our biology and our in our geology and so on and so forth,
25:10
we can, we can reach back to that knowledge and apply it to
25:14
the, you know, the current narrative and say, yeah, no, or
25:18
I want to try that. You know, that's really what
25:21
it's all about. That's what holistic management
25:23
was all about. I just read this this morning
25:26
and about Alan Savory said the most important thing behind the
25:30
Savory method is not the cattle, but the process of goal setting,
25:34
team building and communication and constant testing of
25:39
assumptions. And you know, it doesn't matter
25:41
what's ranching your any other human endeavor without that
25:44
natural curiosity and seeking truth, you're just, you know,
25:48
leaning at the wind. So on this issue of
25:50
regeneration, I we try to make sure young people are aware that
25:54
it is not new. Regeneration is it is the
26:00
current word for it. It's a it's a descriptive word.
26:03
But if we talk about the changes that we saw in ranching in the
26:08
1880s, nineties and so on and afterwards, agriculture was
26:12
pursued by those regenerative methods before the
26:18
industrialation of industrialization of
26:20
agriculture. It's no more complicated than
26:24
that. You know what a friend of mine
26:26
who who specializes in in in herdsmanship utilizing horses,
26:31
he studied that it the issue hurting his whole whole life.
26:35
And some of the best instruction he received were were from
26:39
really, really old men from Peru, from Central America, you
26:46
know, and other places where herding was an art.
26:49
It was not mechanized. There were no fences.
26:53
And so by really probably having some of the last conversations
26:57
those older gentlemen had, he was able to capture a tremendous
27:01
amount of of endorsement for what he thought would would
27:05
work. And sure enough, that's where he
27:08
found that, that, that encouragement.
27:11
So we're rediscovering lost truths.
27:15
That's all, that's all. But I, I, I'll add this caution,
27:20
and this is for parents as well. If, if you want your kids to be
27:24
successful in any endeavor, but especially ranching, make sure
27:28
that they get their algebra and their chemistry and their
27:31
biology and their accounting. Seriously, because I'm working
27:37
with 20 something year olds that still don't have it and they're,
27:39
and they're starting behind the curve.
27:42
We are in a business of science and, and, and you, there's no
27:47
going away around that, particularly as the knowledge
27:50
base of traditional ranching is waning.
27:54
You don't have as many one-on-one contact training
27:56
scenarios. We're having less and less of
27:58
them. They're still there, but we have
28:00
less and less of them. So remember that Regen is not
28:04
new. It's based upon on real science,
28:07
the way the world was created to work.
28:09
It could be known. That's the most encouraging
28:12
thing about it is it's not a mystery and it can be known.
28:15
You can learn it, and you can employ it, and you can succeed
28:18
by it. Absolutely.
28:19
I think that that applies to so much of what we talked about
28:22
today of whether we're talking about apprenticeships or we're
28:26
talking about region or we're talking about just so many
28:29
different concepts within the cattle industry that applies.
28:33
Like we're not reinventing the wheel here, guys.
28:36
We're really just trying to take what has been proven, what is
28:40
factual, what we need in this industry and continue to grow
28:45
and be better and evolve with the times.
28:47
Because we got to, you said it so well, the ebb and the flow,
28:50
we're going to go through it as a cattle industry, but how can
28:54
we ride that wave the best that we possibly can?
28:57
So as we round out this podcast, I have a question.
29:02
And if you had to give one, maybe two really hard truths to
29:08
look ranch owners right now, what would it be?
29:10
Whether it's considering labor shortages, land pressure, the
29:13
economics of ranching, what do we need to be facing head on as
29:19
a ranching population right now? Well this is like 3 more shows
29:23
right? Precisely.
29:27
There's a few things and I'll, I'll just pick them.
29:29
They're, they're not in any order of priority for me, but
29:32
they're, they're on the top of my thinking to be blunt and to
29:35
oversimplify 1 issue. And that is there needs to be, I
29:39
believe, a real bold shift from irrigated cropland to irrigated
29:47
pasturing. It seems pretty darn obvious to
29:50
me. So I'll just leave it at that.
29:52
I mean, the results that we're seeing on grazing pivots out
29:55
here in the West, the economics are off the chart.
29:58
So if you're in the Midwest and you've got irrigated farmland or
30:02
even sub irrigated farmland, however that works for you,
30:05
those row crops and those grain crops.
30:07
I, I don't know, I'm just, you know, I, I really wonder when
30:11
that's going to take off because the people who are doing it are
30:14
winning, especially with the cattle herded at stages as it is
30:18
right now. You know, if you can partner
30:20
with people who have heifers, you can get started.
30:23
I, I would strongly encourage that.
30:25
And non owners, you know, the first generation ranchers, be
30:29
bold. You know, if you see a field
30:30
sitting there and you, you know, it's underutilized, go talk to
30:34
the owner. Don't, don't be shy.
30:37
Get started. Absolutely.
30:39
I couldn't have rounded it out in a better way.
30:42
And that is a soapbox that you and I could chit chat about.
30:46
Four hours, I am sure, especially as a Kansas rancher
30:50
myself who sees a lot of those issues across the entire state.
30:54
If someone's listening to this, Dan, and they want to learn more
30:58
just about your programs, what you guys kind of offer through
31:01
your apprenticeships, through other things.
31:03
I'll have all of that link down in the show notes.
31:05
But if you could kind of explain where people can find more
31:07
information or kind of next step moving forward as well?
31:11
Sure. Well, we're mom and pop, we
31:13
really are. And so we don't even have a
31:15
website, but if you want to reach me, feel free, just e-mail
31:19
me at ranchresource.com. And that's my main e-mail.
31:23
So I encourage people and we meet new friends every day who
31:27
just have a question. And I am always amazed at two or
31:32
three points of separation, you know, phenomena that we
31:35
experience all the time. And I encourage people all the
31:39
time, you know, call if somebody intrigues you, call them, right?
31:43
They may not have the answer, but they may know somebody who
31:46
hasn't answered. But if you don't make that call,
31:49
you'll never know. So.
31:51
Absolutely. I could not agree more on that
31:54
concept and that strategy as going through life.
31:58
As we round out the podcast. And is there anything else that
32:00
you would like to leave with our audience today?
32:02
No, I, I, I thank you for the opportunity.
32:04
You know, we're, we're always aware that we're really talking
32:08
to the 1% of people out there who might switch on this
32:12
channel. And so I always like to say to
32:15
that, that 1%, that one person who knows that this this show
32:20
was for them, be encouraged and keep taking steps and and you
32:24
keep walking down that road, you're going to find the
32:26
satisfaction that you're looking for.
32:28
Thanks again for having us on. Wonderful, Dan, thank you so
32:32
much for your knowledge, your insight, and just the candid
32:35
conversation that you brought to the podcast today.
32:38
To all of our listeners, make sure you check out the show
32:40
notes down below. I will have Dan's e-mail and his
32:42
LinkedIn, his information where you can get a hold of him and
32:46
his team. Just if you have questions or if
32:48
you just want someone who understands the business to talk
32:52
about things with, Dan is definitely a great person to
32:55
reach out to. You're going to be in cattle at
32:58
Cattle Con this year in Nashville.
33:00
Make sure you check out Dan's stage speech that he's going to
33:03
be doing and just panel that he's going to be hosting.
33:06
It's going to be a really great one.
33:07
So, Dan, thank you for being here and to all of our
33:10
listeners. We will see you all next time on
33:12
another episode. Have a good one y'all.