Latest / She's Not Done Yet! Rebuild Your Life After Gray Divorce / Ep 07: The Dish - She Swipes, I Smile. Two Ways to Get a Date After 60 🌶

Transcript

Ep 07: The Dish - She Swipes, I Smile. Two Ways to Get a Date After 60 🌶 · She's Not Done Yet! Rebuild Your Life After Gray Divorce

• 0:03
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Are you considering a gray divorce, or are you going through one right now, or are you rebuilding your life on the other side of it? Welcome, sisters. You're in the right place. I'm your host, Dr. Tamara Manasoff, and this is She's Not Done Yet. Real raw talk about love, loss, sex, dating, and money, and the courage it takes to rebuild your life after gray divorce. Okay, sisters, let's get started.
• 0:36
  Hello, and welcome to She's Not Done Yet podcast. I'm so excited that you're joining us today for our new edition called the Dish, and I am thrilled to introduce you to my good friend Karen. Karen, say hi. Hello, Karen and I actually met in an interesting way because it actually applies Karen to our dating methods. Because today's topic is about dating, so if you are in midlife, over 50, 6070, and beyond, and you've gone through a great divorce, or you're just in midlife and you're ready to date, again, it's going to be fun to dish with Karen because the two of us are dating right now, and
• 1:16
  we're doing our approaches are a bit different, and so we dish about it, and Karen and I were talking, and we were dishing, and we were like, "Wait a minute! We need to talk to the sisters, our sisters, about this. And so that's what this is all about. The dish is an opportunity for all of us to come together and actually talk, girlfriend to girlfriend, sister to sister, about the things that we're thinking about and that we're dealing with, and asking each other questions and getting feedback and all of those great things. So, Karen, I am so grateful that you are with me today and
• 1:46
  you're willing to get on camera and actually talk about your experiences and we'll chit chat about both both of our experiences and really kind of the things that we've learned along the way so far.
• 1:59
  Karen: So far. So, thank you so much for having me. This is really going to be a lot of fun.
• 2:03
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Yeah, I'm so excited. So all right, so let's talk about it. First of all, let's just talk about for the woman who you and I've been dating for a little while. I have been dating for now about a year, so it's pretty new for me. I've been meeting men offline, and you've been meeting men online, and I think that's really important because I think it's really important that we show different ways and approaches. And there's not one right way or wrong way. It's really just putting yourself out there. So the question really is, like, how did you put yourself out there when
• 2:35
  you were first beginning to date again after your divorce?
• 2:39
  Karen: Yeah, when I was divorced, things were a little bit different. There weren't 25 apps that you could meet people in a lot of different ways. It was a little bit more. It was organic. I have met people offline, but it was Yahoo Personals or Match, or there were really only a handful at the time. And what I found then was that everybody that was doing this was truly looking for a relationship, and so it felt exciting, and there was so much possibility. And I feel like as time has gone on, there's too much swiping and ghosting and superficiality. You know what someone looks like, and if
• 3:18
  they've got a picture of themselves, you know, holding a fish, or if the girl's in a bikini, or you know, whatever it might be, I feel like things have changed a lot. But when I first started dating, I was like a kid in a candy store. I just thought there were like so many interesting men that I was meeting who were interested in having relationships, and so it was very encouraging to me.
• 3:41
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: I love that so much. So for the sister who is just getting started, let's say on apps, because like I just had someone write in and just say, you know, the last time she dated is when there were flip phones, and so now it feels really overwhelming. Honestly, it does. I mean, it's overwhelming for me too. I joined Bumble four times and deleted it four times, and so I love you know yeah. Tell me like what your advice. No, I was
• 4:09
  Karen: just gonna say I do the same thing because you feel excited, then you feel discouraged, and then you want you want some excitement in your life, so you go back on, and then you rinse and repeat because it's sort of the same thing again. Not always. I've met some really lovely men. Whether they were for me or not is another story. But I actually did meet somebody that I became engaged to. So I I consider that I had a success. And other men that I dated for quite some time. But getting started, I want to really respond to that, and I'd like to say that if you're just getting started
• 4:44
  dating, I have actually a really great idea. Why don't you go on a date with the most fabulous person you know, and that is yourself? Taking yourself, putting on a beautiful dress, doing your hair and makeup. If that's how you choose to go out, if. If you want to wear a pair of high heels that have been in the back of the closet gathering dust for three years, treat yourself like you want to be treated. Go to a beautiful dinner. Go have a glass of wine somewhere. Go to a concert. I know a lot of people don't like doing things by themselves. I don't mind. Always feel like I meet people, men
• 5:19
  or women, when I'm out doing something on my own, and so before you foray into the dating world, maybe you're going to sort of experiment with yourself. Miley Cyrus says, "I can buy myself flowers. You know why not?
• 5:33
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: I like that song. Actually, I totally can relate. Yeah, you know it's interesting that you say that because that is actually how I started meeting people is when I went out with the mindset that I was just going to go and be myself, and it wasn't really with the intention of I've got to meet someone. It's more like I'm going to enjoy myself, and I'm going to go out, and you know whether you dress up or don't or whatever, it makes you feel good. Right? Is really it's great advice because I find that that's when you attract people too because you're just feeling it, right?
• 6:06
  You're feeling like, okay, I can do this. I'm going to go have a glass of wine, or I'm going to have a cup of coffee, or whatever it is. And I think that I think it really comes out energetically when you're feeling that level of, you know, you may not be feeling that confident inside if you're just starting, but at least you've taken action and that first step, right? Even just going to a coffee shop,
• 6:26
  Karen: exactly. And I've had such surprising experiences. You know, I was in a town in France, and I was walking down the street, and this man stopped me, and he said, "Where are you going? And I said, "I don't know. Where are you going? He said, "Only I are going to have a cup of coffee. Will you come? Like, okay. It was public. I didn't feel threatened in any way, and it was just one of these things that somebody saw me, and I think that energetically, it was just I was out doing my own thing. You know, I wasn't like you know sitting in a corner and you know waiting for somebody to
• 6:55
  talk to me. I was out in the world, and it's actually happened a lot of times, and actually, to digress for a minute, it's actually how you and I met, right? So we are both in a restaurant, and you saw me, and you came up to talk, and here we are. So you you never know, right? And I love it
• 7:12
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: so much. Oh, I didn't mean to interrupt you. I love it so much because that's one of the things that I keep sharing in the sisterhood is about just saying hello to a stranger. I saw you from across the cafe, and I was loving your energy. Actually, I was working. I was like totally plowing away, and I'd look up, and I'm like, "Oh, she seems so nice. I was like, "Oh, look at how good she is! Oh, yeah, okay. You know, like you were speaking with another woman friend, and I was like, "God, do I say hi to her? For some reason, I felt compelled to say hi because I feel like
• 7:43
  it was your energy, and so that's when I said hi to you. And then we found out, my God, how many things we have experienced together, you know, over our lifetime. I mean, the similarity is amazing. Both kids are from the Bay Area, and our lives have literally crisscrossed over and over again in so many different ways. But that's for another story. Exactly. But it does tie back to what we're talking about. Like you just you were there. You showed up with your friend. You were energetic. You're being yourself, and that attracted me to wanting to be your friend. And now we've become fast
• 8:19
  friends. And that's how all of a sudden, us as we're going through these dating adventures, how we started calling each other and just going, "Oh my God, you know, what do I do? And I loved you in my last date with the French man. And you're like, "What are our choices for dresses? And I was like, "I got two choices. Remember, I arrived here with a single suitcase, and I was like, I got two choices. You're like, all right, but what about the shoes? And I'm like, I got nothing. What? That's so funny.
• 8:52
  Karen: I know it's
• 8:53
  true, and I think that having a sisterhood, which you are cultivating with the women that are your audience, but just not being afraid to approach another woman. I have so many phone numbers since I moved to France six months ago. I don't know if your audience knows that I live in the south of France. I have collected phone numbers from 20-year-olds and 80-year-olds who see me and they want to be friends. Yeah. And so I am putting myself out there in the world without an intention to draw people, but just living, and so I think that's really important, right? Whether you're the one that's
• 9:26
  chosen divorce or not, we have very different experiences, you and I. It's still like pulling off a big band aid, you know. It's it's what you've known for so long, and suddenly you're raw, and you're exposed, and you're vulnerable, and allowing yourself to feel those things and not retreat because you feel those things, but maybe you know taking a sip of liquid courage, whatever that is for you, and getting out there and just being in the world. I'm a mother of three. I was a wife for 20 years. I had my career, and suddenly. It's sort of all about me, you know, and who? How do I want to show
• 10:04
  up? And I think it takes some reflection, and not what other people tell you that you should do, or you should wear, or who you should meet.
• 10:13
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: No, I love that. I love that so much because when I was recovering from my gray divorce, it took me very long time, and that's I think because I was isolating myself. I really pulled in inward, and which, in retrospect, I wished I had a sisterhood, which is what this is all about. Because I think it helps, like you and I being able to bounce off ideas, and other sisters being able to chime in and say, "Hey, their experiences, and because you, first of all, you don't feel like you're so alone, and I think it is. It does also build courage to see other women who are
• 10:46
  stepping out, like you were just talking about. You know, really being willing to. You know, you may not be quite ready yet, but now you're maybe putting your toe in and saying, "Okay, well, wait, what is she doing? What is she doing? Ooh, I like that. That makes me feel safe. And for me, it was going to a coffee shops. Right? I met you in a coffee shop. I met the guy I'm dating in a
• 11:05
  Karen: coffee shop, and I
• 11:06
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: and I met the French guy in my building down in the foyer, foyer. I don't know if
• 11:13
  Karen: that's yeah,
• 11:14
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: and so yeah. So it's really interesting, and but it's about giving yourself the time that you need to go through the process, and it just shows up differently for all of us, right? And then it
• 11:25
  Karen: does,
• 11:26
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: and then being willing to energetically just go out there into the world and try new things.
• 11:32
  Karen: I think having a comrade, if you want to call, I feel like you and I are that for each other. You know, we share our situations. I've shared with you my my latest adventure and trying to you know talk through trying to talk through what feel what feels right and good for me because we've talked about this before you know we raised our families we were doing for other people for so long and then suddenly you get to be your priority and deciding if you're dating someone and they talk about themselves themselves for four hours. I think I told you a story that I went out to dinner with
• 12:09
  this gentleman and I started counting. Like my hands were in my lap under the table. I'm counting like how long am I going to sit here and listen to him talk about himself before I'm going to get up and excuse myself? I'm not a therapist, and I actually can speak. But if you don't ask me anything about myself, it's not dynamic. And so, being authentic with yourself, and it can be hard sometimes. I've walked out of coffee dates with grace. Thank you for meeting me. I'm not comfortable, so I'm going to actually go. But thank you for taking the time, or having an email exchange with someone. You
• 12:40
  don't have to feel obligated to do anything for anyone anymore, other than for yourself. And so, I am still at this age discovering what my boundaries are.
• 12:50
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Yeah, I love that so much, and I think you tapped on something really important because being a people pleaser, as many of us are, especially you know raising families, always putting our family first, our spouse first, prioritizing everyone around us. Essentially, for so many decades, it's such a learned experience. Plus, I think women are conditioned from an early age to care for others, and that's a great quality. And I think also to our detriment at times because, you know, when I'm sitting across from a date, who's taking me out to this beautiful dinner, and the
• 13:25
  French man, who is actually a very nice man and interesting, you know, spoke about himself for three hours, and thankfully it was an interesting story. But it really made me not want to go out with him. He knew nothing about me, and I think actually what even bothered me more was that he Googled me afterwards, and then he came became very apologetic. He came back and he wanted to go out again, and he was like, "Oh my God, you know, you've done all these things. And I'm like, "Yeah, maybe you wouldn't find out if you'd ask me a single question.
• 13:53
  Karen: Right?
• 13:54
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: It's really and you know, I think
• 13:56
  Karen: we we both discovered, and research has shown that sometimes men do this because they're nervous. Yes, and so maybe it warrants a second date if there's something that's slightly of interest about him to you to give him a second chance. And the man that I went out with that talked for three hours about himself towards the end, not dissimilar to your experience, he said, "Wow, I've talked a lot. I really haven't learned much about you. And he was lucky because, like, I had one, you know, I had one foot up to get out the door, and I appreciated it. And it was almost a little bit too
• 14:28
  late for me to consider going out again. But I think that there's, there are no rules around dating for us at this age. If you want to go home with them, go home with them. If you want to make sure your friends are tracking you on on your Apple phone, so you know if you end up in the ocean or something somewhere, that someone's going to know where you were or who you were with. Or so I do think we have to be cautious. I do want to bring that up that we should meet in public places. We should have a conversation and not just hello and then let's meet in some. Plays even having a video call
• 15:02
  first. I've actually eliminated, if I can use that term, potential dates after a time or two exchanging on on a video call because that tells you a lot that you can't get when you're just sending words.
• 15:15
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: I'm so glad you brought that up because I think that's really important because you can read body language, you can see how they respond, how their their eyes, what their eyes are telling you, because there's a lot to be said about body language. So I think that's actually a great idea, and also the tracking for your safety. I know that you sent me your tracking recently, and honestly, it gave me peace of mind too to know where you were, and I think that's really smart ahead of time to tell someone that you care about, a friend that you can trust, or someone in the
• 15:46
  sisterhood that you can trust that will, you know, be really have your back and know, oh, you know, I haven't heard from her. Maybe I'll, you know, send a message and see if everything's okay or that kind of a thing. So, and I also love what you brought up too about having no rules. This is where I am in terms of it's not just boundaries, but I'm like pushing my boundaries. It is like what are our boundaries, and you know in terms of what we won't we don't need to overstep and do something that makes us feel uncomfortable. And I also feel that I am pushing my boundaries because I feel like I
• 16:18
  was in such a restrictive relationship for so long that I put walls around myself, honestly. And so now, you know, on the dates, I'm like, do I want to kiss him? Do I not want to kiss him? Do I feel comfortable going, you know, here with him or not? You know, like I'm really exploring different things, and and also, you know, what you were saying questioning everything afterwards, right? Like, is is this working for me? I think you and I talk about this a lot. Is we kind of download after the dates about like this didn't make me feel so good. I don't feel valued, or why don't you speak to
• 16:54
  that? Because I think that was really important. What you saying?
• 16:57
  Karen: Yeah, for something just popped in my head about the the man that I dated for four years and was engaged to that I met on Match, probably 20 minutes into our conversation, I knew we were going to be in a relationship. I could just there was just such a connection, there was a synergy, there was an exchange of conversation. We were both equally participating, and it was so easy. And I have to say, dating shouldn't be hard. You shouldn't have to struggle to find conversation. You shouldn't feel uncomfortable. You you want to feel respected and seen. I think women are very intuitive, and
• 17:34
  I think that we gather a lot of information by the unspoken. You know, my background is in communications, but more you know nonverbal communications and social dynamics, and really watching-not overtly, but it's just sort of part the way I process information now that I am looking. This is such an unrelated story, but I have to tell you, like this really amazing story-not amazing in a good way. I went out with a man. This is many years ago. Went out with this man. He took me to a beautiful dinner, and he kept getting up to go to the restroom. I thought was kind of weird, but okay, you
• 18:08
  know everybody does what they do. And about a day or two later, a friend of mine wrote me on LinkedIn, and she said, "Do you know blank? And I said, "Yes, I do. And she said, "Well, how do you know him? I said, "Well, I'm dating him, and she said, "So am I. I said, "Really? I said, "When's the last time you saw him? She said, "Well, I haven't seen him in a couple days, but on last Saturday night he was texting me like all evening.
• 18:33
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Oh my god!
• 18:33
  Karen: So he was going to the bathroom and texting my friend while he was at dinner with me, and I found that out after the fact, and so we sort of played a little bit of a game with him because then he went out of the country and he was texting us both literally the same text, and we were exchanging back and forth. And so I said, "I don't want to communicate with you anymore. And he was like, "My God, why? And he kept pushing me and pushing me. I said, "You know, the world is smaller than you think, and I'm just going to leave it at that. And I said to my friend, "You know, if you're
• 19:04
  interested in him, by all means, help yourself. But this is not someone that has a value system that is of interest to me.
• 19:12
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Yes,
• 19:12
  Karen: and I think I'm a pretty good date. You know, the fact that he has people leaving and texting her, and she's a beautiful woman too. It wasn't fair to either of us.
• 19:22
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Yeah,
• 19:22
  Karen: but that just one of we could spend all week my you know recounting just some of the crazy stories that I've experienced. But I have to say that my experiences by and large have been very positive. I've never felt threatened. I've never felt at risk. I've never felt in danger. But I think it's because I vet things out before. I vet people out before I I will see them in person and know that I have an escape hatch. Sometimes if I'm uncertain, I'll ask a friend to call me an hour after my date begins, so I can make a departure if I need to, and I have done that. So I think that
• 19:57
  there's lots of ways to approach it, and so I'm not trying to raise. An alarm flag about dating, but I think that we need to be aware of our intentions and the intentions of the people that we're meeting.
• 20:08
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: And I think that's where the concern or fears come in because when you're doing online, I mean, it's different when I meet someone in the lobby because we're actually standing face to face, talking, feeling the chemistry, really seeing the communication and all those things, but texting can get so misunderstood that things can be. It's so easy to misinterpret. Oh, what does he mean? And and all these things, and you know. And I thought it was interesting. If you if okay for me to bring this up. Yes. Okay. When you were just telling me it was so interesting what you
• 20:40
  noticed in one of the texting exchanges you were having with someone you were you were dating that you were noticing that you were asking more emotionally deeper questions where he was more focused on the surface and that you know made you suddenly see this pattern and you were like oh my gosh it made you understand that you want more depth and you want to be valued, and so talk about that and what that brought up for you in terms of your next adventures.
• 21:08
  Karen: Thank you. So there was amazing chemistry between this person and I, and I, I really got caught up in this rediscovery of my femininity, of my womanhood, of my sexuality, and it was so exciting to me. And I knew that there there were other people in his life, and so I knew I wasn't the only one. But I still was starting to develop sort of emotions, and I would write something to him that was not just about what wine we're going to drink that night, and I'd get something back that was a very sexy message, which was very flattering to receive a sexy message or a compliment of my physicality
• 21:52
  or whatever it might be. But then I noticed that any time I sent something that was beneath the surface, I would only get an emoji response from him, like a heart or a rainbow. I actually thought I didn't notice that until recently. But if I say something that's also sort of provocative, that elicits a response. Or if he writes me first, it's always about something physical.
• 22:21
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Yes,
• 22:21
  Karen: and of course, I want to have excitement in you know my intimate relationships, but I also want depth with someone. I want to be able to communicate with them and share. And there are some barriers when you're dating men that you don't speak the same language. I will say that. So I'm dating European men. Some have some English. I'm not fluent in French, so there are some barriers. There's enough commonality that you get the gist of what's happening, and so it came as actually like a you know those V8 commercials. Like wow, I could have had a V8. It was one of those moments.
• 22:57
  Like oh my gosh, I just noticed this after a period of time being with this man, it's like I never noticed it until now.
• 23:06
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Yeah,
• 23:07
  Karen: and it's not acceptable to me.
• 23:09
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up because I think it's important for you to know what's acceptable and what's not, and that taps into creating those kinds of well, it's it's really acknowledging your own values and what's important to you, and that at this time in our lives we can choose, and even earlier in our lives, I think I didn't think I could choose, but now I realize, well, of course you can. Like you really can define relationships the way that work for you. And for me, again, it was more about people pleasing and always making sure that I was being the
• 23:39
  good wife, the good, the good whatever, the good mother, the good all the things, and then you know, and then now it's like, what do I want? And it's been interesting.
• 23:51
  Karen: I want.
• 23:52
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: What do I want? Yeah, what do I want? And it's a great question to keep asking, not just once, but over and over, because what I'm realizing is that is shifting as I'm dating, which is interesting because I never expected that to happen. Where it's like, okay, well, I definitely want to be boyfriend girlfriend, and then I'm like, wait a minute, what does that mean? No, I don't. I want to have my freedom. I want my own place. I don't want to. I don't want to do joint accounts. I don't want all that wasn't entailed in my earlier life. But I do want to have the intimacy,
• 24:27
  the deep conversations, the connection, the companionship. And I think a lot of us are looking for those different things. However, we may define it differently, right? You may want something different than I do. But I'm. That's what clarity is dropping in for me, is that wow, I get to choose, and that sounds like very similar to what you're saying too. That hey, I get to choose,
• 24:49
  Karen: and I don't have to feel guilty if the choice is going to disappoint the other person, because when I was married, the last thing I wanted was conflict. I used to have a a turn. My marriage and it was tranquility at all costs. Wow! And so I swallowed my words all the time because I wanted tranquility because I came from a household where there wasn't, and I was determined to have peace and quiet in my life. But there was a price to pay For that.
• 25:17
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: I so relate to that. I realized, and I'm in communications as well, and I felt like my whole throat was closed when I was in my relationship. I literally would not speak because I didn't want to create waves, and so I really relate to that. I'm sure a lot of women here understand that absolutely that feeling where you have to hold yourself back because you're trying to avoid conflict.
• 25:39
  Karen: Exactly,
• 25:40
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: but nowadays, and it
• 25:41
  Karen: takes some courage. I'm sorry, Tamara. It takes some courage to allow yourself to have expectations. To allow yourself to say this doesn't work for me. To allow yourself to say I'm looking for something different. To not feel oh lucky me that someone has chosen me. There's a book that an author many years ago someone introduced me to, and the book was called Choosing Me Before We.
• 26:08
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Yeah,
• 26:10
  Karen: choose yourself, choose what you want, choose what's important to you. Don't think that someone choosing you is winning, because it's not. Choosing yourself is one.
• 26:21
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Yeah, and it's so interesting that you say that because I think that a lot of us, and this is a whole nother topic we could talk about, but it's when you are in your 50, 6070, s, beyond. A lot of us are experiencing changes in our body, and I think when someone, you know, shows us attention, that it's easy to get swept up in it because you're like, oh my gosh, you know, he's he thinks I'm attractive, and if you haven't been feeling attractive because of the changes that you've experiencing, it can lead you perhaps down a road with someone that may not be the best for you
• 26:58
  actually. And so the question is, you know, I love what you said to me one time when we were chatting. You know, is this is there a reason for this date? Is this a season, and or is this did you say forever?
• 27:11
  Karen: A season, a reason, a season, or a lifetime?
• 27:13
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: A lifetime, yeah. And I remember thinking I needed someone when I did my one first one night stand in my life in 60, and for me, I wanted to get over my fear, so there was a reason. He was a nice man, and I would never have done that if I didn't feel safe with him. But and we had been communicating beforehand a lot, and on video beforehand, so we I had had a chance to get it to know him a bit. But it's interesting because that for me that was a reason it wasn't a season or a lifetime. But I think that's right. Right. Well, question a question that I think a lot of
• 27:48
  women have is like, how do you, you know, how do you deal with your own, you know, changing body and then suddenly you're in front of someone, you know, and and it's it's very, what's the word feels very vulnerable to put yourself? Yeah, tell me what it's for you.
• 28:06
  Karen: Well, just that you know that in the past few years my body has changed because I'm in my mid 60s, and so I can't expect to have the body of a 24 year old. And quite frankly, I'm tired of dieting. I've dieted for 40 years. You know, as I I eat well, but I'm not going to count like every piece of food that goes in my mouth anymore. And I'll say there's a price to pay for that, but the price to pay now is freedom that I can enjoy myself when I want instead of denying myself and punishing myself all the time to weigh three pounds less than I do. It's it's ridiculous. And so, this
• 28:41
  experience that I had with my most recent partner was feeling so accepted, and I just decided, you know what? I'm just going to just go with it, and I just let myself be fully exposed, literally and figuratively. And I thought, if he doesn't like it, leave.
• 29:04
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: I love. You
• 29:05
  Karen: know, it's like I. This is what I am now, and there's a lot more to me than you know how flat my tummy is on any given day. And I gave birth to twins in another one, by the way. So that
• 29:16
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: I will
• 29:17
  Karen: say
• 29:17
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: two seasons. I get it. Right there,
• 29:21
  Karen: you know, our bodies have produced miracles, and instead of being ashamed of the miracles that our bodies have performed, we should celebrate them. Yes, and there was nothing coming from him that was in any way critical, for not a single word, and so that gave me the confidence that I'm just going to go with this, and I'm just going to embrace owning myself, owning my body, owning my life experiences, and and I will say I actually date men that are younger than me, which is a whole other layer of intimidation because they still have. They're you know six pack abs or you know they're
• 30:04
  swimming and kiteboarding and whatever they're doing all day long, and so a lot of them are really fit. And it's not that I'm not unfit; I'm just not focused on that the way I used to be, and I don't want to be anymore. And so I'm not going to choose to do something to please somebody else.
• 30:22
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: I love this so much. I hope all the sisters out there who are listening and watching us on YouTube really take that in, because it's really important that we just allow ourselves the freedom and just to be ourselves. The end. The end. The end. Oh my gosh! Mike, I know. Drop the mic. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Sitting on this side, you know, when you're in your 20s, you're so worried about all of these things that even longer than 20s, 30s, 40s, and then now it's just like you like me or you don't, and I don't care. Yeah,
• 30:54
  Karen: exactly.
• 30:55
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Yeah,
• 30:56
  Karen: because you know what? I like me.
• 30:58
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Yeah, and
• 30:58
  Karen: you like yourself.
• 30:59
  Unknown: Exactly, and that
• 31:00
  Karen: honestly is what matters the most.
• 31:02
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Yes, I love that so much. Okay, Karen, I had one of our sisters sent in an audio of a date that she went on. It's 60 seconds, really quick, and so I wanted to share it for all the sisters out there who are stepping out, going on dates, and then I want to hear like what you, if it had happened to you, what you could do, and I'm gonna say what I would have done as well. Okay, so let me. I
• 31:29
  Karen: love it.
• 31:29
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Okay, cool.
• 31:30
  Caller: We go on a first date. Nothing special, you know. He's just okay. We're at this very nice bar in Sausalito. He gets up during our conversation and starts sniffing my armpit, like really obviously, and I'm like, "What are you doing? I pull away in total horror, and what is this weirdness? And then you know he goes back, and then he does it again at the end of the date. Needless to say, I didn't ever see him again. That was it. Just totally weird, crazy behavior that comes with online dating because you're dealing with the wild, wild west. So that one was kind of my most bizarre
• 32:24
  date, and don't get me started on the guys that have to kiss you on the first date in the parking lot and thrust themselves on you when you've only known them for like an hour. It's it's just always so awkward, and they don't understand.
• 32:43
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Okay, what do you think?
• 32:46
  Karen: So I put myself in the situation. I haven't had that experience, but something in my many many years of dating, I have had weird things happen. But it could be that he had a fetish. I don't think. I mean, I would have thought. You know, is he checking to see if I have body odor. First thing. Second thing is maybe he has a fetish, and third thing, armpits are actually pretty sexy. So I may have been funny and said I don't mind if you smell my armpit, but may I smell yours? Like make a joke out of it, make something light out of it, and or say we all have our our fetishes from you
• 33:25
  know shoes to armpits. What's yours? So I it was weird. I will give these women. That
• 33:30
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: was the first dinner, the first date. But I love how you responded just now. Like put it back and made it funny. Actually,
• 33:41
  Karen: yeah. I mean, I've had men tell me that they want me to go get a test for herpes before on a first date. Oh, on a first date before we proceed to the next date. Like no, like I don't even know if I want to see you. I don't want to see you again, so I'm not the pleasure of knowing that I'm STD free. It's like what on earth? Yeah. So weird things happen, and I have yes. So I guess my my bottom line is that made her uncomfortable, and it doesn't matter what I would have done. It's what she did. Yeah. She was not comfortable. Yes. After the first sniff, I'm not sure I would have let
• 34:20
  him if he came around to the second side. I probably would have said if I was feeling the way she was feeling, I would have said, and I've done this before. Thanks for taking the time to meet me, but I'm feeling really uncomfortable, so I'm actually going to leave, and I have done that. And there's nothing wrong, ladies. There is nothing wrong with leaving. You don't have to suffer through. If some guy's doing something weird, or you feel uncomfortable, or the conversation goes in a direction politically, or or with any sort of taboo subject that's not comfortable for you, you can be
• 34:54
  gracious. You take the high road. When they go low, we go high. Someone said, and so thank you for taking the. Time, but I'm feeling uncomfortable, so I'm gonna leave.
• 35:03
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Yeah,
• 35:04
  Karen: what are they gonna do? Like they'll lock you down? No, it's your freedom to go. So maybe I would have done that if I were her. When it came around to the second armpit, you say, "Leaving now.
• 35:15
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Yeah, and I love that. And
• 35:17
  Karen: you?
• 35:18
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Yeah, I would have done the. I actually here's the thing that is so interesting about what you said. First of all, I love your answer. Second of all, it kind of ties back into, and I want other women to be thinking about this. Are you trying not to be a rude person by saying, "I this is not working for me, and so thank you so much, and I'm going to go because I could see myself. I haven't had a weird situation actually, but I could see myself trying to people please like take you know be gracious and not want to cause it a you know any sort of issue, and then seeing
• 35:54
  it through, which I think she did. She was just kind of like because I thought you know he did that mid dinner, like what you stood up and went and smelled my armpit during winter. It
• 36:02
  Karen: is weird.
• 36:03
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: It is weird. But I also think your response is hilarious. Like bringing up fetishes. I see this must be a fetish for you. So let's talk about it. But plus, it would have been probably made the conversation a lot more interesting. Just at least hear what he was. The heck he was doing on a first date. But I think what for me in in learning this about this new world is that I want to do. We were talking about earlier is give myself permission to if I feel uncomfortable to say thank you so much I appreciate the dinner and this is making me feel uncomfortable and I'm going
• 36:36
  to go and then just do it and feel okay and feel and like putting yourself first.
• 36:43
  Karen: So you may remember that I recently had a date with someone in Italy, and he wanted to pick me up, and he wanted me. He kept. I'll pick you up from the airport. I'll pick you up for dinner. All of it. I did not want to get in a car. My very dear friend Tamara said, "You're going to get in a car with a stranger. And I have done it before when I've sort of vetted it out, and so I said, "I am going to get to the hotel by myself. I'm going to get to the restaurant by myself, and I will see you there. Yes, because at least then I had the opportunity to sit with him through a meal. I did let
• 37:15
  him drive me back to the hotel because I was taking the the cues. I think I'm pretty perceptive, and if I had felt that I'd be in danger in some way, I may not have. But I gave you enough information as my voyeur, you know, to you know that somewhere in the background you can see where I'm going. But I think that just because someone says I'll pick you up, you don't have to say yes.
• 37:36
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Yes,
• 37:37
  Karen: most of the time I will meet somebody at the restaurant. I will not meet them. Have them pick me up because then they know where I live, and that's another thing. That is another thing.
• 37:48
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Totally, totally, and it's funny too. Okay, so just really quick, first date. Someone is going to go on a first date, coffee, walk, dinner. What would you choose?
• 38:00
  Karen: Coffee, public place. Walk, hike. I never. I've been asked to go on a lot of hikes for first dates. No, I am not going into the wilderness with someone I don't know.
• 38:09
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Yeah,
• 38:10
  Karen: yeah. So I would not go on a hike. A walk, sure, in a public place on the Paradel in Portugal or on the Quasset in in where I live. Sure, if I'm in a public place, but 100 in a public place where there are other people around.
• 38:24
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Yeah, the same. I'm that's for me as well. And then you can choose to stay or leave. Was there anything else you'd like to add before we go, Karen?
• 38:33
  Karen: Oh my gosh, we could talk for hours, couldn't we? There's so much to say, and I think that I've I've started out by saying that you deserve to choose. You deserve to honor what feels good and what doesn't feel good to you. You have the right to be sexy or not sexy, or dressed up or in you know sweatpants. Like you don't owe anybody anything. The only person you owe anything to is yourself. And I've learned that so much over the years. And honestly, more recently, because I wasn't this way when I was first dating, but now I am, and I really enjoy my own company, and I'm learning to enjoy
• 39:09
  it more, and not feeling like there has to be a man in my life for me to have a happy life. Would I like a relationship? Absolutely. Do I have to have one? No.
• 39:18
  Dr. Tamara Monosoff: Yeah, I love that so much. That's a perfect way to close the first dish, and thank you so much, Karen, so much for being willing to share. I know I love you so much, and also thank you for listening in. Thank you for watching. If you're watching on YouTube, this is the "She's Not Done Yet" dish, and so we do a new drop of a new episode every single Thursday morning, and the fourth Thursday of the month is right here with the dish, and we'll be talking about all the different topics that you're interested in, so you can record a question or a something that happened
• 39:55
  to you, like we heard today from someone who went on this date and. I'll put all of those notes in the show notes with the links, and I hope that you'll join us over at the She's Not Done Yet Sisterhood. That's where we all come together and help lift each other up. So we'll see you soon. Thanks so much for joining.
• 40:14
  Karen: Thank you.