Latest / The Internal Move Podcast with Fexingo: Lateral Roles, Internal Transfers, and Staying at Your Company / How an Internal Transfer Can Change Your Manager
Transcript
- Lucas: So, Luna, we've talked a lot about how an internal transfer can change your role, your team, your trajectory. But there's one thing we haven't really drilled into: what if the whole point of the move is to change your manager? Luna: Oh, that's a big one. I feel like so many people stay in a role they otherwise like because they're scared to start over with a new boss. Or they leave the company entirely when a simple transfer could fix the problem. Lucas: Exactly. And I have a concrete example that kicked this off for me. A friend of mine—let's call her Priya—is a product manager at a mid-sized tech company. She wasn't unhappy with her work; she was unhappy with her manager. He was the classic micromanager, wanted to review every update, every email. She felt like she had zero autonomy. But she loved the product, she loved the mission, and she'd built a ton of relationships. Luna: So what did she do? Did she just start looking externally? Lucas: That was her first instinct, honestly. But before she updated her resume, she had a conversation with a former colleague who'd moved to a different business unit. That colleague mentioned that her new manager was the exact opposite—hands-off, but gave really structured feedback. And that got Priya thinking: why not explore an internal move? Luna: So she went for it. But I imagine it's not as simple as just asking for a transfer. How did she actually evaluate that new manager before committing? Lucas: Right, and this is the heart of the episode. She did what I think too few people do when they're considering an internal move: she treated it like she was interviewing the manager, not just the role. She set up informational interviews with people who currently work for that manager, and even one person who had left the team a year earlier. Luna: That's smart—talking to someone who left. They might be more honest about the downsides. Lucas: Totally. And she asked some really specific questions. Not 'is she nice?' but things like, 'How does she react when you push back on a decision?' and 'What's her feedback style—does she give it in private or in public?' and 'How does she handle a project that's going off the rails?' Luna: Those are the kinds of questions that actually reveal how a manager operates under pressure. Did she get any surprising answers? Lucas: She did. One of the biggest surprises was that the manager she was considering—let's call her Dana—had a reputation for really clear career development plans. Like, she'd sit down with each team member at the start of every quarter and map out what skills they wanted to build, and then she'd find projects to match. That was a huge contrast to Priya's current manager, who had never once asked about her career goals. Luna: That alone would be worth the move. Feeling like your manager is actually invested in your growth changes everything. Lucas: And that's the thing—Priya realized she wasn't just escaping a bad situation; she was going toward a better one. She had a whole list of criteria: autonomy level, feedback style, growth support, and also how the manager handles conflict. And she weighed each one before she even had a formal conversation with Dana. Luna: I think a lot of people skip that step. They just look at the job description and think, 'Oh, this is a step up' or 'It's a lateral move, why not?' But the manager is often the single biggest factor in whether you'll be happy in that role. Lucas: Absolutely. And there's a darker side to this, too. We hear stories about people who follow a great manager to a new team, only to find out that the manager's reputation was built on a team that was already strong, and the new team is a mess. So you have to evaluate the manager in the specific context of the new team, not just their overall reputation. Luna: Right. And what about the politics? How did Priya handle telling her current boss she was exploring a move? That's such a delicate conversation. Lucas: That was the part she dreaded most. But she did it in a way that I think is really smart. She didn't go in with a complaint or an ultimatum. She framed it as, 'I've really enjoyed working here, and I see a growth opportunity in another part of the company that aligns with my long-term goals. I'd love your support in exploring that.' And she did it in person, one-on-one, and she gave him a chance to respond. Luna: That's a brave move. Did he take it well? Lucas: He didn't love it, but he didn't fight it either. He actually said he appreciated the transparency. And that's the thing—if you approach it as a professional development conversation, not a 'I'm running away from you' conversation, it lowers the temperature. And it also protects your relationships, because you never know if you'll cross paths again. Luna: That's a good point. And I imagine you also need to be careful about who else you tell. You don't want the whole office to know before the hiring manager has even agreed to talk to you. Lucas: Right. Priya told only a couple of trusted people, and she asked them to keep it quiet. And she was strategic about timing—she made sure she had a solid track record in her current role before she started the conversation, so no one could say she was just trying to escape poor performance. Luna: So she really did her homework. Did she end up making the move? Lucas: She did. And this was about eight months ago. And the difference is night and day. She's got more ownership now, she's learning from Dana, and she's already been tapped to lead a project that's on the roadmap for next year. It's not that her old manager was a bad person—he just wasn't the right fit for her. And sometimes an internal transfer is the best way to get you out of a bad fit without losing the institutional knowledge you've built. Luna: It's like you're dating your company, and sometimes you need to break up with your boss, not the whole relationship. And I think that's a really empowering way to look at it. Lucas: Exactly. And before we go further, I want to take a quick moment, because it's the kind of thing we don't do enough on this show. If you've been finding these conversations useful—whether you're thinking about an internal move, or you're just trying to get better at your current situation—we'd love your support. This podcast is completely ad-free, and that's only possible because some of our listeners choose to buy us a coffee. It's a small gesture, but it keeps us going. If you feel like pitching in, you can find us at buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo. Luna: Yeah, it's a nice way to keep the show independent. And we really appreciate it. Lucas: So, back to the topic. Even with all that prep work, there's a big red flag that people miss when they're evaluating a new manager: the manager's own trajectory. If a manager has been in the same role for a decade and has no internal moves themselves, that might signal they're not great at spotting growth opportunities—or they might be content to stay put, which could be fine, but it's worth knowing. Luna: That's a really interesting angle. I've also heard that you should check if the manager has a history of promoting people from within their team. If not, that could be a sign that they don't advocate for their direct reports. Lucas: Absolutely. Priya actually asked about that in her informational interviews. She asked, 'How many people from this team have been promoted internally in the last two years?' And that gave her a concrete sense of whether Dana was investing in her people's advancement. It's a simple question, but it's amazing how many people never ask it. Luna: And I'd add another one: 'What does a typical week look like for someone on this team?' That tells you about the actual day-to-day, not just the job description. Lucas: Good one. And then there's the flip side—what if the manager you want to move to is amazing, but the team you'd be joining is a disaster? You might be walking into a situation where you're set up to fail, no matter how good the boss is. So you have to evaluate the team dynamics too. Luna: That's a cautionary tale. I've seen people take a lateral move to work with a superstar manager, only to find that the team is in constant conflict, and the manager is too checked out to fix it. Lucas: Exactly. So the checklist becomes: one, what are this manager's behavioral patterns—feedback, autonomy, conflict resolution? Two, what's their track record for developing and promoting people? Three, what's the team climate—collaborative, competitive, dysfunctional? And four, how does the manager fit into the broader leadership structure? Are they in good standing, or are they fighting for their own survival? Luna: That last one is something people don't think about enough. If your new manager is on the outs with their own boss, your role could be at risk, too. Lucas: Right. And that's where you need to do some digging beyond the team. You can talk to people in adjacent teams, or even someone in HR who might have insight into the manager's reputation with the broader org. It's not about gossiping—it's about understanding the context in which you'll be working. Luna: And you have to be careful not to over-idealize. Maybe you're so desperate to escape your current manager that you overlook red flags in the new one. That's a real risk. Lucas: That's a huge risk. Priya almost fell into that trap. She was so excited about the idea of a manager who was hands-off that she almost didn't ask the tough questions about Dana's feedback style. But then she remembered that her last manager was also hands-off, and it turned out he was just disengaged. So she pushed deeper and found out that Dana was hands-off in the best way—she gave autonomy but also scheduled regular one-on-ones and gave structured feedback. Luna: So the difference between a manager who trusts you and a manager who ignores you can be subtle. How did she tell the difference? Lucas: She asked the team members, 'When you've made a mistake, what happened?' And the responses were revealing. Under Dana, people said things like, 'We did a post-mortem, and we focused on the system, not the person.' That's a healthy culture. Under her old manager, it was more like, 'He would call you out in front of the team.' So it's not just about the manager's style—it's about how they handle mistakes, because that's when you learn the most. Luna: That's a great question to add to the list. 'How does this manager react to failure?' It tells you so much about psychological safety. Lucas: And if you're in a position where you can't find anyone to talk to—maybe the team is small, or people are reluctant to speak—that's a red flag in itself. It might mean that there's a culture of fear, and you don't want to walk into that blindly. Luna: So, before we wrap up, what's the one takeaway you'd want listeners to remember about using an internal transfer to change your manager? Lucas: I'd say, treat the manager as the most important variable in the role. The title, the salary, even the responsibilities—those can look good on paper, but if your manager doesn't support you, your growth will be stunted. And an internal transfer gives you the chance to actually do your research before you commit, which you rarely get when you're being recruited externally. Luna: That's a really empowering perspective. You're not just hoping for the best—you can actually find out what you're getting into. Lucas: Exactly. And for Priya, it was the difference between dreading Sunday nights and actually looking forward to Monday mornings. And that's a pretty big deal, if you ask me. Luna: It really is. And I think that's a great note to end on. Thanks for joining us, and we'll see you next time. Lucas: Take care, everyone.