Latest / Let's Kick It Off! / Ian Irving on Michael Carrick, Bruno Fernandes, Managerial Market & Glazers/INEOS | LKIO - Ep 61

Transcript

Ian Irving on Michael Carrick, Bruno Fernandes, Managerial Market & Glazers/INEOS | LKIO - Ep 61 · Let's Kick It Off!

• 0:14
  Let's kick it off. I'm Steve and I'm joined by Ash
• 0:17
  and Ian Irving of The Athletic. So Ian, I'm going to let you
• 0:21
  tell us a bit more about your roles, but you know, I know you
• 0:24
  best from the talk of the Devils podcast, the Manchester United
• 0:27
  podcast for me, the best podcast out there for Manchester United
• 0:31
  in terms of coverage, in terms of balanced views.
• 0:34
  And you know, it's pretty clear that you're all United
• 0:36
  supporters say you do want the best for the club.
• 0:38
  So when we started this podcast 18 months ago, I think you guys
• 0:42
  were very much not the blueprint in terms of where we want to get
• 0:45
  to, but in terms of that, just that top level of, you know, the
• 0:49
  elite if you like. So you were that that Fergie
• 0:52
  Manchester United team. If you want to say for us and
• 0:55
  for me personally hosting the podcast, obviously you're the
• 0:58
  host of the podcast with talk of the Devils.
• 1:01
  I really started listening to you closely and you know, almost
• 1:05
  in a way try to model some of your hosting skills.
• 1:07
  So it really is an honour to have you on Ian.
• 1:09
  So thank you for coming on 1st. Of all brilliant.
• 1:12
  Yes, the nicest introduction I think I've ever had.
• 1:15
  Yeah, I mean, we've we've done the show now for.
• 1:18
  Well, the lads have done it a little bit longer than me, but
• 1:20
  the show's been going for about 5 years.
• 1:23
  Where Manchester United are concerned, conversation will
• 1:26
  follow, good, bad and indifferent.
• 1:28
  Fortunately, at the minute it's a bit more good than it's been.
• 1:32
  It's certainly a much easier task, shall we say, Or initially
• 1:37
  at least a much easier task when Manchester United are women
• 1:40
  winning. Sorry to to record the shows.
• 1:44
  I think no matter the circumstance, this conversation,
• 1:47
  you know, even even in the good you can still pick holes and in
• 1:50
  the bad you can still find positives and try and find out
• 1:53
  the core of it all talk. The devil's in my head at least.
• 1:57
  You know, we try and pride ourselves on not telling you
• 2:01
  what to think but more bringing you the insight that we have as
• 2:04
  to what is happening at any given moment.
• 2:07
  What we've seen, what we've heard, what the people we can
• 2:09
  speak to have have told us in terms of the club's decision
• 2:12
  making or, you know, whatever. And just trying to keep, to be
• 2:16
  honest, just trying to keep a level head with it all.
• 2:17
  I mean, it can be, it can be really difficult, can't it, to
• 2:20
  keep across everything. We try and cover as much as we
• 2:24
  can as a host to try and incorporate as much of the
• 2:26
  conversation that you guys would have together on the show or
• 2:30
  otherwise. Ask the questions that people
• 2:32
  want asking, try and find the answers between us that we can.
• 2:36
  And yeah, there's, there's obviously, you know, lots of
• 2:40
  different Manchester United coverage out there, but we're
• 2:42
  fortunate to be in a position where we do attend games
• 2:45
  regularly, we do speak to people, we do interview people
• 2:48
  and go to press conferences and everything else.
• 2:50
  So it's just about trying to trying to tell people what we
• 2:54
  know really, and what we've heard.
• 2:56
  Yeah, that's fair enough. And yeah, we'll come on to kind
• 2:58
  of like what you do these days outside the pod, but I just
• 3:00
  wanted to hear a little bit about your background.
• 3:02
  So where did you grow up? Tell us about how you got into
• 3:04
  Manchester United, etcetera. My dad, yeah, Born in
• 3:08
  Manchester, grew up in Oldham, on the outskirts of Manchester.
• 3:12
  My dad is a very passionate Manchester United fan, probably
• 3:17
  more so than me to be fair. It's been a season ticket holder
• 3:21
  for a very long time, has been watching United since the 1950s
• 3:26
  and you know, I didn't have a choice.
• 3:29
  To be honest, I was, I was taken to games before.
• 3:33
  I remember going if you asked me what my first match was, I have
• 3:36
  absolutely no idea. My dad was the 1st.
• 3:39
  One you remembered. I remember there's a season,
• 3:43
  sort of 9394, where I begin to remember being at games.
• 3:48
  Good times, yeah, but usually, like for negative reasons.
• 3:54
  One of the biggest memories I've got is not the game, but United
• 3:57
  beat City 5 nil N94. I think I'm right in saying can
• 4:01
  Chelsea can, Chelsea's got a hatchery.
• 4:04
  And I just have a very vivid memory of a guy sat on a bin on
• 4:09
  the concourse of the stadium banging it, going 121231234, and
• 4:14
  then the entire sort of concourse of people heading out
• 4:17
  of the stadium all shout in five nil in unison.
• 4:21
  But around that sort of time I remember them getting beat off
• 4:23
  Fenerbache in the Champions League and people being
• 4:27
  absolutely devastated about it because it was the first home
• 4:30
  defeat they'd ever had in the European Cup.
• 4:33
  And I remember Stan Collymore scoring for Nottingham Forest
• 4:36
  weirdly around the same sort of time where if feel, I don't know
• 4:40
  the record to to regurgitate right now, but they'd not
• 4:45
  conceded all season at home or something like that.
• 4:47
  They'd not conceded for six months at home.
• 4:50
  Something crazy. So it was like our first defeat
• 4:53
  at Old Trafford for ages. Around that time we were OK,
• 4:56
  undefeated for ages. I remember because.
• 4:59
  Just remember it sticking out at the time, you know as yeah, it
• 5:02
  was like my goalies when we. Win it, yeah.
• 5:07
  I went to the 94 semi final which was United and Oldham and
• 5:11
  like I say, I grew up in Oldham so that was, you know, obviously
• 5:14
  that sticks in my head because half of my mates were in the red
• 5:17
  end and the other half of my mates were in the blue end.
• 5:20
  So yeah, I remember going to that.
• 5:22
  But yeah, I have no idea what my first game was.
• 5:25
  My dad, you know, would would take me when I was tiny.
• 5:29
  I used to go in on his shoulders and stand in front of him in the
• 5:31
  seat. I was still doing it when I was
• 5:33
  nearly out of primary school. I probably could have carried
• 5:36
  him in by the time he stopped doing it and I got my own
• 5:38
  ticket. But yeah, you know, we've been
• 5:40
  all over the place watching him and before I did this job that
• 5:45
  that was watching football, anything to do with football was
• 5:47
  my dad, basically. So yeah, it's his fault.
• 5:51
  Do you play football? I did, yeah.
• 5:54
  Yeah. Our weekends would be me, play
• 5:57
  Saturday morning, go and watch United Saturday afternoon,
• 6:00
  because in those days they would play more often than not.
• 6:02
  Then Sunday morning was my dad's team, Sunday afternoon was me
• 6:05
  again. So I was an only child.
• 6:07
  My mum spent a weekend in a well, he's at the side of
• 6:09
  football pitches. So that was that was my
• 6:12
  upbringing. Yeah, basically.
• 6:14
  Nice. Yeah.
• 6:15
  I mean, like, do you still, I mean, have you passed that stage
• 6:18
  of like pinching yourself that you're now, you know, at Old
• 6:21
  Trafford in the media box or, you know, near the touchdown?
• 6:24
  Yeah, and I miss it. I miss being a fan sometimes,
• 6:28
  you know, I miss, miss going for a pint with my dad before the
• 6:31
  game. I miss going for the celebratory
• 6:33
  one that you'd not planned after the game.
• 6:35
  When you when you have a great win or you know, you're getting
• 6:38
  excited about something. I miss elements of travelling to
• 6:41
  watch the games. We were talking about this on
• 6:44
  one of the podcasts recently where, you know, as a fan, you
• 6:47
  go to an away game. People think that the match is
• 6:50
  everything. It's not.
• 6:51
  It's like 5% of the trip, basically, yeah.
• 6:53
  It really is like spending. Time with your mates and all
• 6:56
  that. Well, Bill Bao is the best
• 6:58
  example of that because me, Ash and three of our other friends,
• 7:01
  we all went to Bilbao. Obviously result awful, but trip
• 7:05
  probably one of the best trips I've ever had in terms of like
• 7:07
  the location because we went to San Sebastian, like everything
• 7:11
  was perfect apart from the game for Bilbao.
• 7:15
  So yeah, no, that's a fairpoint. And again, just briefly, just
• 7:18
  want to hear about your journey from being a United fan as a kid
• 7:22
  to kind of get into the position you are now.
• 7:24
  And, you know, tell us a bit about the different roles that
• 7:26
  you do do. Yeah.
• 7:28
  So I'll keep it as brief as I can.
• 7:30
  Basically I studied journalism at university and then when I
• 7:33
  finished uni I came back to living at home.
• 7:36
  And at that that time there was a local channel in Manchester
• 7:39
  which doesn't exist anymore, which was called Channel M,
• 7:42
  which basically covered, yeah, just covered everything in the
• 7:45
  city, you know, across music, sport, news, the lot.
• 7:50
  And I just started doing work experience there.
• 7:53
  The channel wasn't exactly thriving for numerous reasons.
• 7:57
  So the opportunities were there and I just kept saying yes.
• 8:00
  And then eventually I sort of worked my way up to being like
• 8:04
  that, their sport anchor if you like.
• 8:07
  And then then I started working for the Premier League, which
• 8:10
  was 16 years ago now. I still, I still work for the, I
• 8:14
  still, I still do the international content service
• 8:19
  work. So throughout the week, do
• 8:20
  interviews with players, yeah. Press instances, yeah.
• 8:23
  We see your face sometimes behind the managers.
• 8:25
  We see your face like you know, behind the managers of other.
• 8:28
  Yeah, don't just do United. I do, Yeah.
• 8:30
  My patch is basically the north. So yeah, you know, city
• 8:35
  regularly, Liverpool, Everton even you would have.
• 8:38
  Enjoyed last then when Rich Arlison scored.
• 8:42
  Yeah, I did do that game, yeah. Liverpool, Spurs, yeah, there's
• 8:44
  been a few games this season where there's been a sting in
• 8:47
  the tail at Anfield for Liverpool, which I covered, you
• 8:50
  know, a lot of the games last season as well, which was
• 8:52
  obviously a very different experience for them.
• 8:55
  So you you just wear a different hat.
• 8:57
  You know, I don't I don't go to I can't go to work as a fan
• 9:00
  anymore. You know, I work, I work for the
• 9:02
  Premier League. When I do the games, you have to
• 9:05
  be as neutral an observer as you can and try and just, you know,
• 9:09
  just like I think I spoke to you about this after the live show
• 9:12
  that you guys came to as well, where, you know, if City win or
• 9:16
  Liverpool win, it's it's a job, it's a story.
• 9:19
  You know you can't, you can't carry that little, the little
• 9:22
  lad. 10 year old Ian won't be very happy.
• 9:24
  But you know, 39 year old Ian has to accept that that's his
• 9:27
  job so. Mature and experienced, Ian, I
• 9:29
  like it. Something like that, Yeah, don't
• 9:31
  use those adjectives or it makes me sound old.
• 9:33
  And cool and trendy. OK, Yeah.
• 9:38
  So 16 years, well, you started with the Premier League, so
• 9:41
  that's your first kind of entrance to that.
• 9:43
  Yeah, that's 201011201011. So I've I've covered Manchester
• 9:46
  United winning the Premier League.
• 9:47
  So there you go. A while.
• 9:49
  Yeah, yeah. Wow.
• 9:51
  OK. And then yeah, obviously now you
• 9:53
  know, you've got the Premier League role and then the podcast
• 9:56
  role. Anything outside of that.
• 9:57
  I know you probably have bits and bobs, but is that the main?
• 9:59
  Yeah, yeah. I mean, I have to do different,
• 10:01
  different things at different points, but my two regular
• 10:03
  things are the Premier League reporting role now and and and
• 10:07
  the podcast, like we've said, so cool.
• 10:09
  So yeah, they keep me busy enough.
• 10:10
  Don't worry about that. Yeah, I was going to say 6:00
• 10:13
  to. 8 weeks most weeks during the season, so yeah.
• 10:15
  Yeah, All right, let's let's get into Manchester United then.
• 10:18
  So Friday night, 22 draw down at Bournemouth.
• 10:21
  So I guess a couple of stand out probably headlines from that
• 10:25
  game. One is around the inconsistency
• 10:27
  on the penalties and two, probably just Bruno keeps
• 10:31
  delivering. So yeah, I want to get your
• 10:32
  take. First of all, what did you make
• 10:34
  of the inconsistency on the penalty shells, specifically the
• 10:38
  Ahmad one and the Harry Maguire one that we conceded?
• 10:41
  Like did they look similar to you?
• 10:43
  Yeah, I guess. I guess the the team and Michael
• 10:46
  Carrick summed it up really where they said in their in
• 10:49
  their belief that either neither given or both forgiven.
• 10:53
  And I think in the Ahmad case, it probably would have been less
• 10:57
  of a conversation if then the Ahmad incident hadn't then been
• 11:02
  followed by McGuire and Evan Nielsen as well.
• 11:04
  Think if he'd just been Ahmad alone, maybe you you would
• 11:07
  accept the decision a bit more than having seen what Carrick
• 11:11
  and and Bruno Fernandez was saying after the game.
• 11:13
  You know, an almost identical incident where you know McGuire
• 11:18
  is then is then sent off for file following Evan Nielsen.
• 11:21
  I mean, it's just to sort of move the conversation on from
• 11:24
  the the decisions of the the most pleasing thing for me was
• 11:27
  it it didn't lose united the game.
• 11:29
  So, you know, yeah, fans are getting angry about these
• 11:32
  decisions and I feel like not even that long ago we'd be
• 11:36
  getting angry about them because it has cost United the game and
• 11:40
  all right, cost them the win. Then again, in the context of
• 11:43
  the weekend with Liverpool and Chelsea losing, it's not as bad
• 11:46
  a result as maybe as it as it might have been.
• 11:48
  And Bournemouth have had a very consistent run of form.
• 11:51
  They've not lost since the start of January.
• 11:53
  There's a reason for that. So I think the way they reacted,
• 11:57
  you know, the the 1st set back, which was conceding the first
• 12:01
  equaliser, then going up the other end and getting the own
• 12:04
  goal. And even when the even when the
• 12:06
  red card came from McGuire and the penalty was given, it's not
• 12:10
  like they were arguing about it 10-15 minutes later.
• 12:13
  It's not like the imploded, it's not like the game fell apart.
• 12:16
  You had the resilience to see how the the final 10 minutes of
• 12:20
  the game and then the 10 minutes that were added on as well,
• 12:23
  which Michael Carrick also had a right smile after the last.
• 12:26
  It's the longest injury time they've had for ages.
• 12:28
  So I think, yeah, I can understand why people are
• 12:31
  annoyed. I mean, I've seen the story that
• 12:34
  the club are looking into appealing or at least making a
• 12:38
  complaint. I think it's probably the right
• 12:40
  way to put it to the PG MO Critch has written about that on
• 12:44
  the Athletic. So, you know, we'll see what the
• 12:46
  impact of that is in in the in the days ahead and the matches
• 12:50
  ahead. But the most pleasing aspect for
• 12:53
  me was being angry about a draw and angry about a defeat.
• 12:55
  Or, you know, the world falling in, basically.
• 12:58
  Yeah, I know. That's fair.
• 12:59
  And Ash, like I guess it's similar for you in terms of as a
• 13:01
  fan, it's inconsistency that gets you sometimes, right?
• 13:04
  But I think Ian makes a very good point that the fact that
• 13:07
  we're annoyed about a draw at Bournemouth.
• 13:09
  I mean, we I think the last two times at Old Trafford, at
• 13:12
  Bournemouth beat us three nil. They've definitely beat us three
• 13:14
  nil. You've forgotten.
• 13:15
  You've forgotten the 40. How can you feel about the
• 13:17
  readings? 44 the. 4/4 this season but I
• 13:19
  think the previous two season. Pretty sure they beat us three
• 13:22
  nil twice at Old Trafford. I remember one of them was in
• 13:24
  December I think. 10 half in. December.
• 13:27
  Oh, both in December, right, because I think the the first
• 13:29
  one is when I thought 10 hug. I don't know if this is going to
• 13:32
  work out. But to the wider point, you
• 13:33
  know, Bournemouth are a decent team, Ash, right.
• 13:36
  So the penalty and consistency and the general performance of
• 13:39
  the team, like how are you seeing that?
• 13:41
  Yeah. I mean just quickly on the
• 13:43
  penalties, I think the biggest frustration for me was Vas lack
• 13:47
  of getting involved in it. But it's it's clear with Ahmad's
• 13:53
  penalty incident that the referee was influenced by the
• 13:56
  fact he's already given the penalty to us because I think if
• 14:00
  he doesn't give the Kenya one, he's given the Ahmad 1.
• 14:04
  Ash, what do you think about Ahmad in terms of the way he
• 14:06
  goes down? Because I think sometimes he's a
• 14:07
  little bit theatrical and I don't know if that kind of works
• 14:10
  against him. I was going to say he was a
• 14:12
  little bit theatrical for me. Interestingly in on your pod,
• 14:18
  like Carl was surprised Kenya's one was given on 1st glimpse,
• 14:21
  right? Because for me that seemed like
• 14:23
  a Stonewall. And I'm actually not the type of
• 14:25
  fan to be like penalty, penalty go going crazy.
• 14:28
  So like that, you know, it is interesting when you speak to
• 14:32
  different people of how you look at it.
• 14:34
  Regarding the McGuire one, being a centre back myself, I think
• 14:38
  the biggest shock for me was the red card itself because I don't
• 14:41
  know if it's the proximity of the Bournemouth stadium, but it
• 14:45
  just looked like Evan Nelson, like the, you know, Lamont's was
• 14:48
  coming out, so he was going to have a shot pretty quickly and
• 14:51
  you had Shaw coming as well. So I think that was actually
• 14:56
  more of a surprise in terms of like fine penalty just.
• 15:00
  But again, I think Evan Nelson's actually gone down, not
• 15:04
  theatrically, but easily. So I think that's clever from
• 15:07
  him on that point. But yeah, just in terms of
• 15:10
  United, like, you know, I think Ian's bang on.
• 15:13
  Like even if you go back to January, we were nervous about
• 15:17
  results and what Michael Carrick has done is just like calmed the
• 15:22
  ship and we're getting structured performances.
• 15:25
  So I know there's a lot of talk obviously about I think it's two
• 15:29
  wins and eight away from home. But I see the platform and I
• 15:36
  didn't see that under Reuben, as you know, Steve, but Ian, just
• 15:40
  just for like declaration, I think it was like February 25,
• 15:46
  Steve asked me the question, if you could change Reuben Amarin
• 15:49
  at that point, would you do it? And I said yes, because for me,
• 15:53
  I just, you know, I wanted him to be successful.
• 15:56
  Obviously, you know, he's the same age as us and you know he
• 16:00
  he's a cool guy, he's charismatic and and all the rest
• 16:03
  of it, but. Just like you 2 as well.
• 16:05
  Obviously. But yeah, I mean in terms of the
• 16:09
  football and and obviously the results for me they were
• 16:12
  disastrous and obviously record-breaking in terms of if
• 16:16
  you look at Premier League era or even Manchester United modern
• 16:19
  era, right. So you know, from there to go to
• 16:24
  where we are today, like we're sitting third, we're closer to
• 16:27
  city than the mob chasing us behind.
• 16:30
  That's remarkable. OK, people can pick holes in the
• 16:33
  football. But you got to remember in
• 16:37
  January most fans, including myself, were probably thinking
• 16:40
  we need like 8-9 players in the summer now because the calm has
• 16:45
  come. I actually disagree with us in
• 16:48
  the 343. I think 4321431 does work for
• 16:52
  us, but now all of a sudden the transfer window, it's like we
• 16:57
  probably only need like 3-4 bodies to you know, be like
• 17:01
  really competitive. Because for me, Arsenal aren't
• 17:04
  like Manchester City or Liverpool's like Jurgen Klopp
• 17:08
  team, like they're gettable in the next like couple of years.
• 17:12
  So with smart signings, you know, there's a platform for me.
• 17:16
  The bigger question obviously will be like, is Michael Carrick
• 17:19
  going to be in charge of that? But he's well on course
• 17:23
  obviously now to get Champions League, which for me is
• 17:26
  remarkable because I'm happy to say that if Reuben was in
• 17:29
  charge, I don't think Champions League is happening.
• 17:32
  What about you, Steve? Yeah, I want to pick up on the
• 17:35
  point about, you know, Carrick getting Champions League and
• 17:37
  what happens from there. Like, you know me again, for
• 17:41
  your context, Ian, like post Bilbao, we did a pod basically
• 17:45
  in belt Bilbao. Ash obviously was of the same
• 17:47
  belief. Now that he's lost the final, he
• 17:49
  definitely has to go. Me and us were kind of like not
• 17:52
  happy. I don't see it working long
• 17:53
  term. But the manager market at that
• 17:55
  time didn't really inspire us. And we were thinking if you wait
• 17:58
  a year, you've got the managers coming out of the World Cup.
• 18:01
  So you've got to call Ancelotti Porch, even Nagles men.
• 18:04
  So we were like, OK, let's we would prefer to wait a year and
• 18:07
  then possibly get one of those managers, give Ruben more time,
• 18:10
  give him a summer window, etcetera.
• 18:12
  But yeah, you know, in the early part of the season, the football
• 18:15
  I think is Manchester United supporters.
• 18:17
  When the football isn't entertaining, it's a real
• 18:19
  struggle, isn't it? You know, we can, we can deal
• 18:22
  with bad results, but when you're not enjoying the
• 18:23
  football, you know, it's a real, real struggle, I think,
• 18:26
  especially for Manchester United supporters.
• 18:28
  So yeah, we are where we are. Carrick obviously come in done
• 18:31
  brilliantly. So Ian, I want to come to you
• 18:34
  here. So I remember when Carrick got
• 18:36
  the job, I was listening to your pods.
• 18:38
  I think in that early part all of you are very much like, let's
• 18:42
  see how it goes. There's no rush, right, To make
• 18:44
  a decision. We don't have to give it to him
• 18:45
  perm. There's no point.
• 18:47
  Do you think call resigning and talk is Angelotti is resigning
• 18:51
  or close? Do you think that's changed the
• 18:53
  way the club need to look at it at all?
• 18:55
  Or do you think it's still a case they can wait until the
• 18:57
  summer? No, no.
• 18:58
  I think they keep keep doing what they're doing.
• 19:00
  You know, Michael Carrick, week on week we're learning more and
• 19:03
  more about the manager that he is or the head coach that he is,
• 19:06
  the job that he's doing or can do it.
• 19:08
  United, you know, this season and beyond.
• 19:12
  I thought it was very interesting to watch the
• 19:14
  reaction to him losing the first game against Newcastle and to
• 19:17
  see exactly what happened in the wake of that.
• 19:20
  I liked some of the touchiness that he's shown after that
• 19:24
  Newcastle game and after Bournemouth as well, because I
• 19:27
  mean, I, I watched the press conference, which I wasn't in,
• 19:29
  but I watched the press conference, the head of the
• 19:30
  Bournemouth game and a lot of the journalists were trying to
• 19:33
  like get into him. Like how do you deal with the
• 19:35
  players? Do do you tell them off?
• 19:37
  Do you get angry? How does it go?
• 19:38
  So, you know, beginning to see those different assets that he's
• 19:42
  got. There's different facets to his
• 19:44
  personality. He's got different ways to go
• 19:47
  about things. Hugely experienced as a player
• 19:50
  and I think it's fine. I think it's fine to just wait
• 19:52
  and see. And in the meantime, I know and,
• 19:55
  and I'm sure the club will continue to do the work that
• 19:58
  they're doing behind the scenes to see who's interested, to see
• 20:01
  what's out there and to take a properly considered view about
• 20:04
  it. And I said this on a podcast
• 20:07
  last week that I did with Steve Bartram, who used to work for
• 20:10
  the club and does a show on YouTube now.
• 20:13
  I don't buy the idea that because it worked out a certain
• 20:17
  way with someone in the past that you can't then do that this
• 20:19
  time for that reason. And you know, so many people
• 20:23
  I've heard say, well, look how it works out with Soul Shy.
• 20:25
  You can't do the same with Michael Carrick.
• 20:27
  Well, two things on that. Just because you appointed one
• 20:30
  person in this circumstance doesn't mean that the second
• 20:32
  person is going to go exactly the same way.
• 20:35
  If you're appointing a top level manager, would you say, well,
• 20:38
  we've had that before with Jose Mourinho, one of the biggest
• 20:40
  names in management and, and that didn't work out.
• 20:43
  And then the other part of it is, well, did Jose Mourinho not
• 20:46
  work out considering the the success that he had with United,
• 20:49
  the trophies that he won, he got them into the Champions League
• 20:52
  consistently. Did social not work out?
• 20:54
  All right, he didn't win anything, but he came very close
• 20:57
  in the Europa League. He came second in the Premier
• 20:59
  League, which is the highest post Ferguson finish.
• 21:02
  It felt like they were really on to something at the start of
• 21:04
  that season when it just dramatically fell apart in the
• 21:07
  20/21/22 season. The room being away from home in
• 21:10
  a year, you know, all right, it was locked down football, but no
• 21:12
  one else was doing that at that stage.
• 21:14
  So, you know, there there was definitely merits to it.
• 21:16
  I know speaking to reporters, they felt brilliant watching all
• 21:19
  they're going to sell shards Manchester United.
• 21:21
  I don't know what you guys think Yeah, you know, people really
• 21:24
  enjoyed it. So just just write off Carrie
• 21:26
  because of how it worked out with someone when actually that
• 21:29
  someone actually did an half decent job.
• 21:31
  I just don't really get that at all.
• 21:32
  I think the. Expectations.
• 21:34
  I think that was the issue with Ollie because obviously he's
• 21:37
  follow, he's following on from Jay-Z, Mourinho, you know, we
• 21:42
  signed Ronaldo, Sancho. I think there was one more.
• 21:46
  Was it for? Around, yeah.
• 21:48
  So I think some of that. Yeah, I think, yeah.
• 21:51
  I think that was like part of the problem and also like Ollie
• 21:54
  tried to improve the football even more so.
• 21:58
  And I actually thought that was to his detriment because where
• 22:02
  we played like a mid block typically under Ollie and
• 22:06
  actually got good results included in get against Pep
• 22:08
  quite consistently at the Etihad.
• 22:11
  We pushed the line up in that in that season.
• 22:14
  And then we started to get found out more in terms of like, can
• 22:17
  the players actually do that? But coaching style, Is that
• 22:21
  Ollie style? Personally, I actually didn't
• 22:23
  think it was. But funnily enough, if Ollie had
• 22:26
  come now, I think the Premier League is actually more seated
• 22:29
  to his kind of coaching style at the moment, because we've kind
• 22:32
  of gone back to an era of like mid block, obviously set pieces
• 22:36
  in. As you can probably know from
• 22:38
  watching all the Premier League football that you do, it is come
• 22:41
  back like with a bang this season, right.
• 22:43
  So like, I think in terms of, you know, Carrick, I actually
• 22:49
  see patterns that I like, especially with midfield, like,
• 22:52
  you know, it's a it's a clear change from what Reuben was
• 22:55
  doing in terms of Reuben look for more control, whereas
• 22:59
  Carrick is actually trying to play more, you know, interlinked
• 23:02
  midfield football, like, you know, trying to penetrate.
• 23:05
  It's almost like Manchester United from like, you know, 20
• 23:08
  years ago in terms of the style. So as fans would appreciate
• 23:11
  that, but yeah, obviously it kind of depends on like the the
• 23:15
  market outside, right, who's available and that market is
• 23:19
  actually quite small now, Steve, right.
• 23:20
  Because like. Yeah, you're World Cup managers.
• 23:23
  That you were planning a year ago.
• 23:25
  Yeah, they're pretty much all gone.
• 23:26
  This is the interesting thing. And This is why I kind of want
• 23:29
  to ask you, like Ian, from your perspective.
• 23:31
  So let's assume that the club have decided they're waiting
• 23:34
  until the summer. They did say that.
• 23:36
  I think whether it was officially or you know, they
• 23:38
  communicated that type of narrative, that will wait until
• 23:41
  the summer. But let's just say
• 23:43
  hypothetically, let's just say Carlo Ancelotti, right?
• 23:45
  They Jason Wilcox or whoever, they've got a board, right, or a
• 23:49
  whiteboard or shortlist of their number one.
• 23:51
  And obviously there'll be certain circumstances for all of
• 23:54
  them on whether you can get them or not.
• 23:56
  But let's just say we think Carlo Ancelotti is the right man
• 23:59
  in terms of stature, experience to take the club forward.
• 24:03
  If if that was your position, would you not have been, would
• 24:08
  the club not have needed to have been working on those targets
• 24:11
  from say, you know, February, March?
• 24:13
  Because this is how it works in football, right?
• 24:14
  Even with transfers, like you need to start speaking to their
• 24:18
  teams, etcetera, get a feel. So do you know what I mean?
• 24:21
  Like how do you know they're not?
• 24:23
  Well, that's that's. A fairpoint.
• 24:24
  That's a fairpoint. Yeah.
• 24:27
  One point we. Said Ian was maybe the likes of
• 24:31
  Carlo and Tuka that aren't on the list for for you know, the
• 24:34
  reasons that you know, we've discussed right World Cup.
• 24:37
  I mean, I mean the only candidate for me, I think if
• 24:41
  you're. Waiting for money Sorry if
• 24:42
  you're waiting for managers to finish the World Cup, but you
• 24:45
  you might be waiting a while, might you might not actually
• 24:47
  have a manager through the door if you get to the final or the
• 24:51
  last stages until literally, you know, you're beginning pre
• 24:54
  season. And I think already waiting
• 24:56
  until the end of the season can cause some problems with player
• 25:00
  recruitment because like we've spoken about so many times on
• 25:04
  the show, you know, a big part of joining Manchester United or
• 25:07
  any club, people will ask who's the manager, what style of
• 25:10
  football we're going to play. And, you know, I don't suppose
• 25:13
  they can give a definitive answer to that if they haven't
• 25:15
  decided for definite who the manager will be next season.
• 25:19
  Now, the fortunate thing for United is there is some
• 25:21
  uncertainty across the board anyway.
• 25:24
  You know, Real Madrid, for example, they've got a manager
• 25:27
  in a similar circumstance to Michael Carrick.
• 25:30
  There's some uncertainty. Liverpool, there's even been a
• 25:32
  lot of speculation about whether this is Pat Guardiola's final
• 25:35
  year at City. So quite a lot of the rivals
• 25:37
  have got a bit of a, the question mark over them as well.
• 25:41
  But yeah, I mean, you know, I, I know they've done it with Lou
• 25:44
  Ivan Howell in the past when he, he first came in.
• 25:47
  But you know, I, I, I've been told that the club have been
• 25:51
  working on who is next even before Ruben Amarin left because
• 25:55
  they wanted to be prepared and have a knowledge of the market.
• 25:58
  You know, Andy on our show speaks to some very influential
• 26:01
  people on a regular basis and and he's heard similar that, you
• 26:06
  know, there's been preparations and conversations taking place
• 26:09
  that we don't know about in terms of making this decision.
• 26:13
  And, and to me, that's reassuring.
• 26:14
  That's what the club should be doing.
• 26:15
  They should be weighing up their options.
• 26:17
  But also look what's in front of you.
• 26:19
  You know, if Michael Carrick is doing a great job with the team,
• 26:23
  just because he's the interim doesn't mean that he shouldn't
• 26:25
  be considered. And every everything I've heard
• 26:28
  or been told is that he is part of the the consideration and the
• 26:31
  conversation. So, and the one thing that
• 26:34
  hasn't really happened is Michael sit there in a press
• 26:36
  conference or an interview and say, I want this job.
• 26:39
  Not yet. Not yet.
• 26:42
  Knowing his character a bit, I think it's unlikely.
• 26:44
  Maybe when he. If and when we secure top five,
• 26:47
  maybe he might drop a little hint in, you know, a bit more, a
• 26:49
  bit more. I don't think it's his style, to
• 26:51
  be honest. I mean, I remember I interviewed
• 26:54
  him a lot as a player, like I've mentioned before, you know, been
• 26:57
  doing the job a while. So when when United had a
• 27:00
  disaster under David Moyes of Van Hal, quite quite often it
• 27:03
  was Michael Carrick who would be the one who would come out and
• 27:06
  deal with all the interviews and all the questions about what was
• 27:09
  going wrong and, and why United lost and whatever else.
• 27:12
  And there's a bit of running joke.
• 27:15
  No, no, there's a bit of a running joke that, you know, he
• 27:19
  wasn't allowed to do interviews if United won.
• 27:21
  I think when he when he eventually retired and he came
• 27:25
  and did the interviews after the game, I think you think I'm
• 27:28
  right in saying United won the game.
• 27:30
  And it's like, oh, why am I doing the interviews there?
• 27:32
  Because we've not lost. So he's a safe pair of hands
• 27:35
  from a, you know, APR perspective for for them.
• 27:37
  They can trust him, I think. And already he's had to deal
• 27:40
  with some pretty complicated subject matters.
• 27:43
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 27:44
  I mean, you know, as a Manchester United manager, you
• 27:47
  have to he's the voice of the club, whether he's a temporary
• 27:50
  manager or not. You know, that that is a huge
• 27:52
  part of the role. And we were talking the other
• 27:54
  week on the on the show about, you know, will there come a
• 27:58
  point where he has to show more? Well, actually, you're beginning
• 28:00
  to see that his comments about the officials at Bournemouth,
• 28:03
  his comments about some of the questions he was being asked
• 28:07
  after Newcastle. You are beginning to see that
• 28:09
  that a little bit more. But it's just not his style.
• 28:12
  You know, he's a he's a straight batter.
• 28:14
  He's a safe bear of hands, whatever cliche you want to use.
• 28:16
  You know, he's calm, he's measured.
• 28:19
  He's not emotionally, outwardly. So it's funny how United seem to
• 28:26
  they seem to appoint the antidote to the previous boss,
• 28:29
  don't they? In so many ways, there's a real
• 28:33
  Ying and Yang to the way that the the the appointments go.
• 28:36
  So let's see, let's say I, I don't think when they say let's
• 28:41
  decide in the summer that they are giving it zero thought and 0
• 28:44
  consideration. I'm pretty sure that there are a
• 28:46
  lot of lot of work being done behind the scenes to know when
• 28:50
  the time's right, that they're making the right the right call
• 28:53
  and let's hope to get it right. I think there's a.
• 28:55
  Misconception about Carrick as well, because we've got a
• 28:59
  community group here and there's a lot of like Chelsea,
• 29:02
  Liverpool, Arsenal fans, they all think he's boring etcetera,
• 29:06
  but you actually talk to his teammates.
• 29:08
  Wayne Rooney I saw recently when he was who's the funniest
• 29:12
  teammate he's ever had, he said Michael Carrick.
• 29:15
  Yeah. So just dry, really dry.
• 29:18
  It's dry humour, you know. And then also on press
• 29:22
  conferences in terms of the job, he has quite consistently said
• 29:25
  he's loving the job. So for me, that's good enough,
• 29:28
  right? Because like you said, Ian, I've
• 29:30
  listened to Carrick interviews for like so many years.
• 29:34
  So that's his way of basically saying I want the job most
• 29:37
  likely anyway, right. So maybe so he's he said that
• 29:42
  and then yeah, I I'm with you. Like after the Newcastle defeat,
• 29:46
  like it was annoying to obviously losing those
• 29:49
  circumstances. But do you know what?
• 29:50
  I actually liked the way he bit back at the presenter about like
• 29:55
  I think he was asked the question and was like, don't
• 29:57
  worry, it was. Yeah, he was like, don't worry.
• 30:00
  Yeah, and he's not like that even as a player, like, you
• 30:04
  know, like you said, he's done interviews after, you know, bad
• 30:07
  defeats, etcetera. The way he shut it down, it was
• 30:09
  like he's in charge. And I think the players also
• 30:13
  like that element as well, right, Liz?
• 30:15
  There's a good balance in terms of like respect and then if
• 30:18
  Carrick needs to obviously new stuff, whether it's, you know,
• 30:22
  big calls like Chesco continuously being on the bench,
• 30:25
  he's making calls like that even with like fan pressure, media
• 30:29
  pressure. So I think he's doing a good
• 30:32
  job. And to your point, it's like,
• 30:34
  we'll, we'll just have to see, right, what the management team
• 30:38
  are doing behind the scenes. Like I think the only manager
• 30:42
  for me, and I think Andy's mentioned this point before and
• 30:45
  your podcast is if Lewis Enrique was available.
• 30:48
  He's probably the only one right now for me personally that I
• 30:52
  would have to, you know, think seriously hard.
• 30:55
  But if for example, we're considering other Premier League
• 30:59
  managers, whereas with Ruben, I would have swapped, you know, an
• 31:03
  Eddie Howe or whoever for for Michael Carrick.
• 31:06
  It's like I wouldn't swap any other Premier League, you know,
• 31:10
  within that mid tier bracket, you know, like the silvers of
• 31:12
  this world, like Carrick for me, he's doing the job where it's
• 31:16
  like if if you know, and Enrique is not available, you know, then
• 31:21
  that's what I'd be looking to do.
• 31:22
  But yeah, it's going to be an interesting few months ahead
• 31:26
  with that. This.
• 31:29
  Podcast is sponsored by Go Play Sports.
• 31:32
  The brand new mobile app changes the game for grassroots.
• 31:35
  Whether it's Sunday league or five aside, Go Play Sports makes
• 31:38
  it easy to track attendance, manage teams and cut out the
• 31:41
  manual admin. No more endless group chats, no
• 31:45
  more chasing payments. Just turn up and play Go Play
• 31:48
  Sports. Download now from your App
• 31:50
  Store. Ian where?
• 31:53
  Would this club be without Bruno Fernandez?
• 31:56
  Unbelievable. Isn't he absolutely incredible?
• 31:59
  I wrote a column on The Athletic, the Talk to Devils
• 32:02
  column a couple of weeks ago making the argument that I think
• 32:06
  my opinion, I think he should be the player of the year in
• 32:09
  England. The whether it's the PFA players
• 32:13
  vote or whether it's AFWA journalist vote, I think he has
• 32:17
  been more important to his team than any other player in the
• 32:21
  league this year. And the stats, the stats are
• 32:23
  silly. You know, there was a after that
• 32:26
  actually, I think he went and did.
• 32:28
  Did you do 2 assists in the following game?
• 32:30
  Just to back up the point of our dominant he's been in terms of a
• 32:33
  great force, Yeah, Villa so. Double the.
• 32:36
  Assists of any other player in the league, you know, double the
• 32:39
  chances of any other player in the league.
• 32:41
  He's over 100 chances now in the Premier League this season and
• 32:44
  the chasing pack we're on about 56 and 58 the last time I
• 32:47
  checked, which was Declan Rice and Dominic Sposla, who
• 32:50
  individually are having good seasons.
• 32:52
  You know, by their standards and the league standards.
• 32:55
  Declan Rice is probably the the biggest vote that I've seen
• 32:59
  mentioned. But then there's this sort of
• 33:02
  discussion and I was really intrigued to have a look back
• 33:05
  that you have to win the league to win player of the year.
• 33:08
  And actually when you look at the PFA vote in, in a modern
• 33:11
  sense, yes, I think 4 of the last five winners from memory
• 33:14
  had been title winners in the year that they won the PFA
• 33:17
  Footballer of the Year. But then right at the start of
• 33:19
  the Premier League era and it, it was the opposite.
• 33:22
  And actually across the Premier League era, give or take a
• 33:25
  couple of years, it was about 5050 between players who were
• 33:28
  title winners and players who weren't.
• 33:30
  And the great example that always gets brought up when this
• 33:33
  conversation or even anything like it gets gets brought up is,
• 33:36
  is the trouble winning season where Manchester United players
• 33:39
  completely split the vote. And it was a League Cup winner,
• 33:43
  Tottenham's David Ginola who ended up winning the overall
• 33:46
  prize. And even if I say to you the
• 33:50
  Robin van Persie, I don't even need to give you the the
• 33:53
  numbers, you know, the year. Yeah, exactly.
• 33:56
  Yeah, he finished. 3rd did he Yeah in the PFA vote.
• 33:59
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And to me, he was the single
• 34:02
  most important footballer that season in terms of winning.
• 34:05
  Won the time, the ultimate prize.
• 34:06
  Yeah. And yet he finished third.
• 34:08
  Gareth Bale won it and Luis Suarez came second, Right.
• 34:11
  So Suarez, yes, Suarez came second.
• 34:14
  I think the following year he won the overall prize.
• 34:17
  And so again, you know, just going back to this season and
• 34:22
  the way that he's played, he's played the majority of the
• 34:24
  season in an alien position for for the rest of his career.
• 34:29
  He obviously was committed to it.
• 34:31
  He was on board with the idea. His creative numbers were still
• 34:34
  intact no matter what. He has adapted to the league by
• 34:38
  being a crucial part of Manchester United set piece
• 34:42
  threat as well. And a good portion of his
• 34:44
  assists have come from taking corners and free kicks.
• 34:47
  So he's in vogue with the league's trend as well.
• 34:50
  But what he's also been he's been an antidote to the fact
• 34:52
  that a lot of the Premier League this season has felt like, you
• 34:57
  know, very athletic, very combative, not cancelling each
• 35:01
  other out, but a focus really on on others weaknesses and
• 35:05
  limiting that. And he has been, you know, a
• 35:07
  maverick within all that. He was survived despite the
• 35:11
  change in the Premier League. And if you look across the
• 35:13
  league, people like Martin Erdogan, not as important for
• 35:16
  Arsenal this year as previous years, despite how well they've
• 35:20
  done. Phil Foden, the same Ryan
• 35:23
  Cherky, I think he's second for assists, but he's not been
• 35:26
  playing consistently for City across the campaign.
• 35:29
  Cole Palmer not been as good as previous years.
• 35:32
  Florian Verse not been an automatic settle at Liverpool,
• 35:35
  not the same impact on English football as he had on German
• 35:38
  football so far. So I think sort of Bruno being a
• 35:42
  shining light that you can still be a maverick, can still be him
• 35:45
  in all of this. And also his work rate is
• 35:47
  ridiculous. You know the the aspects of his
• 35:49
  game. I think he's matured.
• 35:51
  I think he has more measure to his to his performances now.
• 35:55
  He's always been a great leader. The stuff that you hear about
• 35:57
  him around the club off the pitch has always been great.
• 36:00
  That's remained. Even last year when there's so
• 36:03
  much chat about his future and everything else, I was told he
• 36:05
  was the one who stepped forward to help and boom on.
• 36:08
  Can you settle? He ran through places to live
• 36:11
  with Mateus. Can you run through houses to
• 36:12
  live in? He's like a little estate agent
• 36:15
  for him almost, you know, just making sure he was happy because
• 36:17
  at the time Kunya's wife was heavily pregnant as well.
• 36:20
  So it was a really sort of up against the clock type thing
• 36:24
  that they just wanted to be sorted and settled straight
• 36:26
  away. And Bruno took it upon himself
• 36:28
  to help. And in that regard, and he just
• 36:30
  is United's best player is the best sign of the post Ferguson
• 36:33
  era. I'd love him to get the assist
• 36:36
  overall record. Now he's got the United 1, just
• 36:38
  to sort of underline the player that he is because he might end
• 36:42
  his Premier League career without a title.
• 36:45
  You know, he might not win the Premier League title with
• 36:47
  Manchester United. So at least if he had that,
• 36:51
  there is something in a record book that will ensure that Bruno
• 36:54
  Fernandez is remembered. Because, in my opinion, he
• 36:57
  deserves to be. Yep, that's fair enough.
• 36:59
  And Ash, like, you know, you mentioned our community before
• 37:02
  and we've got some Chelsea, Arsenal fans in there.
• 37:04
  And I think it actually came up last week from an Arsenal fan
• 37:07
  saying about, oh, I've seen a lot of narrative online about
• 37:10
  Bruno getting the player of the season and, you know, basically
• 37:13
  saying that can't happen. So from a Declan Rice
• 37:16
  perspective, Ash, I know you would pick Bruno just to wind up
• 37:19
  Gooners, but I'm assuming you would back that argument as well
• 37:23
  from a logical perspective. Well, not just to.
• 37:26
  Wind up Gooners, but he is the most entertaining player to
• 37:30
  watch in the Premier League this season in particular, Ian
• 37:35
  mentioned the word maverick. The other Maverick players
• 37:38
  aren't in form and if you look at Arsenal as an example,
• 37:42
  because they're top of the table for me, I obviously don't watch
• 37:45
  them week in week out. But obviously Declan Rice has
• 37:48
  been really good. But first half he was really
• 37:51
  good. He's kind of like dropped off.
• 37:53
  second-half. Gabriel has been obviously the
• 37:55
  best centre back, but he's had some injuries and then David
• 37:58
  Raya. So it's kind of like, you know,
• 38:01
  all of the attackers on their side, none of them have done
• 38:04
  enough to be even in the conversation.
• 38:06
  So like, even just from that perspective, like the the other
• 38:10
  competition, outside of the other Maverick players, he's by
• 38:14
  far the most entertaining player to watch.
• 38:16
  Like he creates like such good chances, you know, for our
• 38:21
  players. And arguably he should have
• 38:25
  more, right? There's there's always going to
• 38:27
  be that argument. Like if we had, you know, top
• 38:30
  class finishes, like he'd be even better on the stats, but
• 38:34
  the stats are ridiculous. I think I read 1 Ian, I think
• 38:38
  since January the 7th, IE since Carrick his his chance creation
• 38:44
  alone is second. So you know you got Reuben.
• 38:48
  Yeah, so you got Reuben chance creation numbers as top and then
• 38:53
  his spell since Carrick's been in is second.
• 38:56
  Then it's like, you know, the next player in the league.
• 38:58
  So but I guess, I guess the. Argument though, is that they're
• 39:01
  they're different players completely.
• 39:02
  Obviously Bruno is more creative, Declan is more of a
• 39:05
  defence, more defensive. I know he's chipped in with more
• 39:07
  goals and stuff over the last few years, but I think the cup
• 39:10
  final is obviously quite a big moment in this.
• 39:13
  I think I think that's. It it's narrative, right?
• 39:16
  Like if Declan Rice had the game of his life and bust it, because
• 39:19
  that's one criticism there is of Declan Rice.
• 39:22
  And just to be clear, I wanted to sign Declan Rice the summer
• 39:25
  that he went to Arsenal. So I'm a big fan, but he's still
• 39:29
  not had his Roy Keane Cup final game or like his, you know, like
• 39:33
  a massive game in the Premier League.
• 39:35
  Yep, Everyone's going to tell me the Real Madrid game, but that's
• 39:37
  Europe. I'm talking can you go and take
• 39:40
  a game by the scruff of the neck and, you know, win a big game
• 39:44
  which is going to take you to the title?
• 39:46
  We're still yet to see that for me personally from Declan Rice,
• 39:49
  like yes he will have good 7-8 out of 10s but need that Steven
• 39:53
  Gerrard or Roy Keane type performance right When you're
• 39:57
  talking about PFAA lot, a lot of people were.
• 39:59
  Expecting that performance in the Cup final.
• 40:01
  So just very briefly and I just want to get your take.
• 40:03
  How do you think that Cup final win, City winning it can
• 40:05
  influence the rest of the season in terms of the title race?
• 40:09
  I'm not. Sure that it will have that much
• 40:11
  of an impact, to be honest. I mean, I've covered a lot of
• 40:13
  City games throughout this season and I don't think it's
• 40:16
  controversial to say that they are not at the level that
• 40:19
  they've been in the past. I think it's been interesting to
• 40:22
  watch Guardiola try and work it out because he, he comes up with
• 40:27
  ideas that you you wouldn't expect and he he sort of pushes
• 40:30
  against sort of the common narrative at times as well.
• 40:33
  So he he was having an experiment when Harlem was
• 40:37
  injured of playing Marmouche and Semenya was split centre
• 40:39
  forwards. And it seems to rejuvenate City
• 40:42
  a little bit. Gay has been a, you know, a big
• 40:45
  buy for them as well in, in terms of settling things down at
• 40:48
  the back. Nico O'Reilly obviously is a
• 40:51
  clear person to talk about considering he got the two goals
• 40:54
  in the cup final, but even before that you know he's he is
• 40:56
  someone who has really progressed this season, a local
• 41:00
  lad. I always like to see local lads
• 41:02
  making it in their own teams no matter who that is really.
• 41:05
  And he he grew up a A City fan and has has made his way all the
• 41:09
  way through their Academy to the first team.
• 41:11
  And he's now winning football games that have got Declan Rice,
• 41:14
  Gabrielle Early, Harland, etcetera on the field.
• 41:17
  Not that I'm coming on the United Fans podcast to celebrate
• 41:20
  a Manchester City player. But, you know, if that's Kobe
• 41:22
  Mane losing our minds, aren't we?
• 41:24
  You know, Maneu and Garnacho scoring in the final against
• 41:28
  Manchester City was the ultimate really wasn't it?
• 41:32
  To watch those lads do that as young boys, as teenagers,
• 41:35
  Absolutely fantastic. So yeah, I think in terms of the
• 41:40
  the broader conversation, Declan Rice is probably the front
• 41:44
  runner at the moment in terms of assessing the way that people
• 41:48
  have been talking. Gabrielle undoubtedly is number
• 41:50
  2 for Arsenal. City of Holland continued his
• 41:54
  early season form. He'd have been probably a strong
• 41:56
  favourite. He's dropped off.
• 41:58
  So I wonder if he's, you know, gone down the queue now.
• 42:02
  And I think Antoine Semenyo, to be honest, I mean, I think he's,
• 42:05
  I think he's sort of picked up where he left off at City from
• 42:07
  Bournemouth. And, and yeah, he's, he's had a
• 42:11
  great impact for them. So I just think these lads are
• 42:15
  going to get rewards that Declan Rice will win his title or City
• 42:19
  will win, you know, their League Cup or whatever it is.
• 42:21
  You know, Bruno needs to get his reward.
• 42:22
  He's not going to win any silverware from a team
• 42:25
  perspective. So give him that one instead.
• 42:27
  But maybe I'm a little bit biassed on that.
• 42:29
  I just think, I just think he's so important to United.
• 42:32
  And, you know, if United can finish third, you can get him in
• 42:35
  the Champions League. If you can get that assist
• 42:38
  record, you know, he's putting forward a pretty compelling
• 42:40
  argument even against title winners, you know?
• 42:42
  Yeah, fair play, Yeah. We will sign off on that and we
• 42:45
  agree so. We need a trophy.
• 42:48
  I was losing you A. Bit on O'Reilly I had to bring
• 42:50
  it back. Yeah.
• 42:53
  Final, final point or section, Ian, we'll cover it briefly.
• 42:56
  I know we could do a whole pod on this, but just I wanted to
• 42:59
  touch on ownership. So obviously such a hot topic
• 43:02
  over many decades. Now, obviously the glaze is
• 43:04
  coming in 2005. You know, fans weren't happy.
• 43:07
  And you know, that went on for best part of 20 years, right
• 43:11
  until Ineos came in with the minority investment, I think
• 43:15
  December 23, I want to say. Yeah.
• 43:18
  So like, what's your kind of latest view on how that's
• 43:21
  shaping up? Because obviously, you know, the
• 43:23
  1958 and you know, other fan groups, the sentiment, the
• 43:26
  season, especially when the Reuben appointment, you know,
• 43:29
  went wrong, you know, following 10 Haag and Dan Ashworth.
• 43:32
  There's obviously wider things at the club at the new stadium
• 43:34
  recruitment. So there's a lot to cover, I
• 43:36
  know. But what's your what's your take
• 43:38
  on how this is shaping up kind of heading into the summer, Do
• 43:41
  you think, You know, the noise will almost be squashed and
• 43:43
  they'll just carry on executing? What do you see possibly any
• 43:47
  change? It's not, I'm not saying
• 43:48
  takeover, but, you know, even even with the fans getting moved
• 43:51
  from the South stand and ticket prices increasing recently, it
• 43:54
  seems like it's a bit of a standoff.
• 43:56
  But because of the results have been good the last couple of
• 43:59
  months is almost quiet and quieting that narrative down a
• 44:02
  little bit. So what's your latest take on
• 44:03
  that? Yeah.
• 44:05
  I think it has ebbed and flowed the level of anger and
• 44:08
  frustration that there's been with results down the years
• 44:12
  across the seasons for United. I mean, I think I think fans
• 44:17
  positions on the Glazer family are very clear.
• 44:20
  And I've been for a long time. And I was inside Old Trafford
• 44:24
  the day that the Liverpool game got called off.
• 44:26
  When the fans came inside the stadium was one of the few
• 44:28
  journalists who'd actually turned up early enough to be
• 44:31
  inside it. So having covered that, and I
• 44:33
  know that was maybe more about the Super League really as
• 44:35
  opposed to just the Glazer ownership, but they their part
• 44:39
  in that was obviously a huge, a huge, huge source of frustration
• 44:42
  for United fans. And I don't think it's going to
• 44:46
  go anywhere that I think that is well entrenched.
• 44:49
  I think the interesting thing to observe as being the opinion of
• 44:54
  Sergeant Ratcliffe and any us and the work that they're doing.
• 44:58
  And we're, you know, we're now seeing in in relation to the
• 45:01
  podcast, you know, quite a lot of pretty angry people about the
• 45:05
  way that NES have have run things.
• 45:07
  And equally, there's there's other people who have the
• 45:09
  complete opposite view that things are much better now than
• 45:12
  they were, you know, before. And you know, there was
• 45:15
  obviously that that sort of crossroads of the Qatari
• 45:18
  interest there was when NES managed to to do their
• 45:21
  investment in Manchester United. And you know, the the point
• 45:25
  remains that they only own a minority of the club.
• 45:27
  The Laser family still own the vast majority of it.
• 45:30
  And so Jim Ratcliffe has got the keys to the place really in
• 45:32
  terms of the decision making and so on.
• 45:36
  And you know, you've then got the different people who are
• 45:39
  involved at that top layer who have now got scrutiny on them,
• 45:42
  like Omar Barada, like Jason Wilcox and so on.
• 45:45
  And again, they will be judged on the same sort of things.
• 45:48
  You know what, what's the recruitment like that the money,
• 45:51
  the manager, the head coach situation is going to be a huge
• 45:54
  thing to keep an eye on. How does the stadium progress or
• 45:56
  how doesn't it progress with with how things have gone?
• 45:59
  So yeah, it feels like we're we're in a moment again where
• 46:02
  there there is, you know, people getting very frustrated about
• 46:05
  things again. And I think always now it gets
• 46:08
  just added on because of what the past feeling has been for
• 46:12
  fans as well. Winning football matches masks a
• 46:16
  lot. It won't mask everything
• 46:17
  clearly, but you know, there has been even this season, 1958
• 46:22
  group ended up calling off a protester at one point because
• 46:26
  they just didn't feel that the time was right.
• 46:29
  But you know that it's not going to go away.
• 46:31
  And I think until Manchester United aren't owned by the
• 46:35
  Glazer family, there will be sections of the fan base that
• 46:39
  there will be, there will be people who feel very strongly
• 46:42
  that that shouldn't be the case. There's still people, you know,
• 46:45
  clearly who feel that it should never have been a common thing
• 46:47
  in the 1st place and it has done over the last couple of decades.
• 46:51
  And until that changes, I don't I don't think anyone is going to
• 46:54
  be universally happy. Even if Manchester United stood
• 46:57
  with a Premier League title on the pitch again, I think
• 46:59
  there'll still be frustrations about it all.
• 47:01
  So yeah, it's it's part of the landscape now, isn't it really?
• 47:04
  Yeah, exactly until. Something happens.
• 47:06
  So yeah, we'll leave it there for today.
• 47:08
  Thank you so much, Ian, for your time.
• 47:09
  Really appreciate it. Keep up the great work for
• 47:11
  having me on. Thank you.
• 47:12
  For the support as well, you know, the things that you said
• 47:15
  at the top, the fact that you're so well invested in in the
• 47:18
  podcast, it means a lot to us all.
• 47:19
  So, you know, genuinely really appreciate it.
• 47:21
  So thank you. Brilliant.
• 47:22
  Thanks. Ian, we'll wrap it up there.
• 47:24
  Thanks for joining us on this episode and we'll catch you on
• 47:26
  the next one.