Latest / Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood / 213. The Disappearance of Joan Risch

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213. The Disappearance of Joan Risch · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hello delicious friends and welcome to Who Did What Now?
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: The history podcast that is not your history class with
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: me your host Katie Charlewood, history harlot and reader of books.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: And I bought some outside Halloween decorations for the very
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: first time. Now, I don't have those, like, 12-foot Home
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Depot skeletons over here. Like, that's not a thing. But
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: let me tell you, they're fun. I would have. Right.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Just have it leaning on the side of the house,
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: looking a bit suspicious, you know. I think it'd be funny.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: I think it'd be funny. I could dress it up.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: I'd have a great time.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: But.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Now, I did get these wee... I'm going to call
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: it skeleton arms. So they've got little peace signs and
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: thumbs up. And there was, like, this little tiny path.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: It's.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Like three foot long, right? And it goes across the
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: middle of my garden. And like people like to, I
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: don't know, people like to go through it and then
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: walk through my driveway because I have like the longest
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: driveway in the estate, in the neighbourhood. And it's a
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: fun one. So I was like, listen, let me just
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: put these little, these little things over this three foot path.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: I think it'll be funny. And if the kids are scared, well,
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: They'll stay off my path. Get off me land. No,
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: it's like a few of the houses have their spooky
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: stuff up and I'm like, I'm gonna get into this, right? Like, oh,
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: I did buy also this massive spider web, which is like,
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: just like a comedy large spider web and this big
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: spider to go outside and like every house here has
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: these pillows. It sounds fancier than it is. There's these
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: pillows just outside the front door it's like I would
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: say it's not quite a porch it's like the front
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: step has a hood effectively and so I've got chains
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: that are going to hang from the pillars because I
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: think they used to have like hanging baskets of like
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: flowers and stuff there and I'm like no I'm going
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: to put chains up so that's going to be fun
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: now it's super basic but I'm really glad to like
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: finally get into that because I couldn't do this stuff
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: before like I didn't have the option and now I
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: finally do. Oh, and I got myself in a little
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: bit of hot water this week. And I say a
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: little bit of hot water as I made people mad
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: on the internet, right? So I take great pride and
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: pleasure in my ability to explain things to people, right?
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Because that's what I do. I take a piece of
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: history or an event and I give context. I explain.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: I let you know how that whole thing works, right?
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: That's what I do. And I'm good at it. Otherwise,
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: you wouldn't still be listening to me. So I'm even
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: very hyper-specific when it comes to certain terminology. Like if
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: I'm talking about an execution, I'm talking about an actual execution.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: I'm not talking about assassinations. I'm not talking about general murders. Also,
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: murders within that have other definitions. But I'm not talking
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: about those. I'm talking about a state or military-sanctioned execution.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: in which the death warrant is signed previous to being
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: executed by an official means, right? Like this, it has
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: a whole thing, right? It's like assassination. Assassination tends to
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: be motivated by things like politics, like not every murder
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: is an assassination and not every, you know, it's one
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: of those things, right? But like I did this one
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: video where I'm just like, of all the things to
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: make a comeback, We couldn't bring back fun with jello molds. No, no,
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: it had to be public executions. If you don't follow
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: me in the socials, it was like a thing. And
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: the amount of angry people who were like, who were
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: like just arguing with stuff as if I didn't say
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: it in the video. Like I talked about how the
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: guillotine was still used up until 1977 in France. And
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: they were like, yeah, but the guillotine was still used
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: up until 1977. And I'm like, I fucking know. I
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: said it. I have hard-coded subtitles on the video, so
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: even if you weren't really listening, you can read it
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: on the screen. I have accessible captions for this reason. And, like,
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: I was talking about executions of military personnel by musketry,
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: and they were like, those weren't public. And I'm like,
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: I fucking know. I'm talking about firing squads.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Like, ah!
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: But, like, it's wild. It's like people are talking about Like,
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: there's no reason to live stream a public execution. There's
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: no reason for it to be public, one, because it's military,
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: and two, there's no reason for it to be live streamed. Like,
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: if it's a deterrent, like somebody was like, well, it's
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: a deterrent, and I'm like, for whom? For whom? Military
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: personnel killing other military personnel? Like, that's... If that's the case,
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: because that's who did it, that is the circumstances of
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: this event, then... Logic dictates then if it's going to
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: be shown to anybody, it should be shown within the
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: military only, right? Like, I don't know, military personnel get
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: like a special code and they have to watch it
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: in a secure space, you know, so that no one
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: else can risk it. And if there's a leak, then
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: you know it came from inside the military. Boom, right?
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: There you go. I'm not arguing for and against. I'm
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: just arguing these points, right? And like, it's one of
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: those things, right? Like, one person who I swear was
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: frothing at the mouth was just ranting on about how, well,
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: this is a deterrent to stop terrorists. And it's like,
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: the majority of terrorists are domestic terrorists. And if you
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: want the official definition applied, then you're going to see
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: a lot of people executed who look like you, Susan,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: you know? And that's what people fail to see. And
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: it's like, public executions... And the thing is, this shouldn't
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: even be floated as an idea at all. Like, if
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: a public execution happens, then that opens the door to
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: more public executions, which then opens the door to shit
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: like lynching. Like, people are having picnics again. Like, people
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: will be selling snacks and doing tailgates. It's fucking awful.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: It's a vile thing, right? These are not things you
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: should do. Oh, our children will be scared if a
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: drag queen reads Goodnight Moon to them. But hey, watch
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: this paraplegic get shot. That's fine, kids.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: What? What?
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: What madness?
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: Madness!
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: And like, in Ireland, in Ireland, it was the execution
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: of a man who had to be carried out in
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: a stretcher and tied to a chair, right? That was
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: the proper spark that turned the entire nation of Ireland
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: against British rule, right? And I genuinely believe that if
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: a civil war happens in the US, it's going to
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: be much closer to how the Irish Civil War broke
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: out than the US, like how the whole thing will
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: play out. And the people in charge seem to forget
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: that it's all fun and games until somebody figures out
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: how to 3D print a guillotine. And then there's all
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: this talk about it being pay-per-view, right? Here's the thing.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: If A murder is filmed explicitly for making money, for
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: monetary gain, which is what this would be if it
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: was pay-per-view, then this would be officially the very first
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: snuff film, like legally made, the first legally defined snuff film,
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: and it would be made by the US government. Do
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: you understand how crazy this is? Like, this is insane.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: But it is eight minutes in, so I am going
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: to get into this story because I know what you're thinking.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: You're thinking, Katie, please, quit your jibber-jabber and fact me.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: In fact, you, I will. But first, we've got to
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: get our source on. Our sources are The Search for
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: Joan Rish by John Callaghan A Kitchen Painted in Blood
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: by Stephen Ahern The Disappearance of Joan Rish by Jesse
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Gomes Massachusetts State Bureau of Identification Bulletin No. 2-62, Item 7,
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  Speaker 2: MSBI Bull 262. Lincoln Police Department Log, October 24th, 1961.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: The Real Joan Rush by Frank Peter Natras and Shirley Natras.
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  Speaker 2: Are you sitting comfortably? Good. Then let's begin. It was
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: in the afternoon of the 24th of October 1961 when
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: a four-year-old girl tottered back into her home after a
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: playdate with a neighbour across the street. Thirty minutes later,
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: she would return to the neighbour because she looked around
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: her house and her mother wasn't there and the kitchen
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: was covered in red paint except it wasn't red paint.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: It was blood. but there was no body, no obvious suspect,
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: and no sign of 31-year-old Joan Rish. And what followed
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: would become one of Massachusetts' most baffling missing persons cases.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: There were mysterious sightings, a blood-soaked kitchen, and an unsettling
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: discovery of what Joan had been researching in the library.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: This is the mysterious disappearance of Joan Risch. So what's
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: interesting about this story is I was looking it up,
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: I was trying to see you know, if any of
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: my friends and associates had covered Joan Rish, friends and associates,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: what am I talking about? Because when it comes to, like,
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: the history circle, you know, the history podcasters, creators, sometimes
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: there's overlap when it comes to content just because of
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: how historical events have happened and when they were. Like,
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: I was originally going to do sort of a Tudor
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: series towards the end of the year this year. But
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: Anne from Vulgar History is doing a Tudor series. And
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: I'm like, you know what? No, go listen to Anne.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: She's amazing. Again, we all know my opinions on Henry VIII.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: So really appreciate everything she's doing. And I was like,
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: you know, like I have next month, which is like
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: very turn of the century. Like not the century, the
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: previous one. So like that's going to be really fun.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: But I'd like to do research and just to make
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: sure that... And I've wanted to talk about Joan Rush.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Like for ages, I heard about it one time, like
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: in passing many years ago. And with this month's series
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: of Missing, Disappeared and Lost, it just really hit all
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: the marks. And so I did a little search, listened
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: to see if anybody had covered it in their podcasts
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: and no one I knew did. But what's interesting is
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: like so many people covered it this year and I'm like,
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: do I still do it anyway? And I'm like, yeah,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: fuck it. Like, it's weird how many people covered it
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: specifically in 2026, right? This year. Like, and I went
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: back through it. Like, I went back through, I was
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: looking through, like, each year I went back and it's like,
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: are they all on contract? Like, are they all working
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: from the same source? Like, I don't know. Maybe they
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: all looked up, like, list of missing people on Wikipedia, like,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: in that page. Or, or they asked ChatGPT and they're
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: all working from that for their research. Listen, I'm just saying.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: A lot of the ones I was looking at definitely
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: have teams behind them doing it, and that's the concerning
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: part to me, because it's like, do you not have
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: humans doing your own research? Anyway, that's just me and
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: my bugbear, but let's get back to Joan. Joan. Joan
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Resch was born Joan Carolyn Bard on the 12th of
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: May 1930 in Brooklyn, New York. She was the only
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: child born to Harold Bard and Josephine Amar. Harold had
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: been working for an industrial company. Like, he's working in Brooklyn,
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: he gets transferred to Chicago, and the company goes bankrupt,
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: and they end up back in Mountain Lakes, New Jersey. Now,
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: by the time she's eight, and it's the second grade,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: I think, so she's staying at her grandmother's house in
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: Brooklyn in February 1939. And her parents are back in
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: their apartment in Jersey. And tragedy strikes. The apartment catches fire.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: And the apartment, it's like the second or third floor
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: of this building. It catches fire. And both her parents
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: and the family dog perish. Now, there's all these conspiracy
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: theories about, like the fire was started deliberately and they
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: killed the dog first and buried the dog in the basement.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: But like, no, no, no. the floor gave way and
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: the dog fell through to the basement. Like, that's what happened. And,
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: you know, they did an investigation and it was just, like,
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: faulty wiring somewhere and it happened. So Joan was taken
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: in by her maternal aunt, Alice Natras, and her husband,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: Frank Elmer Natras. The couple have three boys. Peter, born
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: in 1933, Ben in 1934, and David in 1936. So
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: she's basically adopted by this part of her family and
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: she actually goes by Joan Natras for a while. And like,
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: she is really taken in. Like, she is just fully accepted. Like,
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: her and Peter become absolute besties. You know, they're best friends.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Worst of enemies. They're like brother and sister now. And
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: they see each other as brother and sister for the
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: rest of their lives. Now, She moves in with them,
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: she goes to school and she does well academically. And
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: she's friendly, but she's not an extrovert, basically. She doesn't
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: go out of her way to make friends, but she
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: has some friends. She's just kind of content to do
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: stuff on her own, you know. And she's doing well
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: in school. She's got good grades. She graduates with honours.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: And then she attends Wilson College in Chambersburg, Pennsylvania. She
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: goes there when she's 18 and she is thriving. She's
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: an officer of the International Club. She's the class vice president.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: And she writes for the school newspaper. She's writing articles
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: and poems. And like she majored in English literature, so
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: we should not be surprised, right? She's a smart cookie.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: Like she's making friends. She's like really flourishing here. Like,
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: she has a really good circle of friends here. And
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: she graduates in 1952. Like, the following year, she starts
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: working for a book publisher in New York. In New
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: York City. She works for the Hardcore Brace and Company, right?
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: And then one day, she travels from New York to
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: Cambridge to see a football game at Harvard with a friend.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: And that's where she meets her future husband, Martin Risch.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: And she was smitten. She even tells her aunt that
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: he's the fella that she's going to marry. And they
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: do get married, right? In December 1955, they get hitched. Now,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Wikipedia will say 1956. Wikipedia is wrong, okay? Wikipedia is wrong.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: This is why you always double-check your sources. Now, sidebar...
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: I went to college as a millennial, and so we
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: were always taught from the get-go, do not use Wikipedia
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: as a source. And he was like, you shouldn't use
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Wikipedia as a source. You should use it as the
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: jumping point as a source. Like, Wikipedia can be great,
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: but anybody can edit it, you know? And so, because, again,
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: my expertise is in propaganda that people wrote down, misinformation
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: that people wrote down, so... Like, always use that as
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: your jumping off point to then fact check your information. Like,
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: you need to look at sources. Like, proper sources. Not...
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Because I wouldn't even call it a secondary source. I'd
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: be like, it's a third-hand source, you know. So, keep looking.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: But anyway. They get married in December 1955. And Peter
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: is the one who walks her down the aisle. Like,
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: her big brother.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: And.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Like, it was such a big honour for him that
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: she asked him to do that, and it was just
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: such a big deal. And her and Martin, they get
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: on really well. They're very similar in certain ways. They're not, like,
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: super outgoing. They're a little bit more reserved. Like, they're
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: friendly once you get to know them, but again, they're
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: not going out there, like, bish-bash-bosh. But they are, they're
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: so happy, right? And They move in together in an
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: apartment in Brooklyn Heights and their daughter Lillian was born
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: in 1957 and their son David was born two years
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: later in 59. So they've got two kids, they're fairly
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: spaced out, you know, and the plan is, I think,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: eventually that once David is old enough, because they've got
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: their two kids, like once David is old enough that
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: she wants to go back and teach, right? Like this
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: is the goal, you know. But right now, she's a
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: mother to her two kids. That is her role. That
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: is what she's doing. In 1960, Martin Risch was offered
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: the role of Vice President of the Marketing Department of
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: the Fitchburg Paper Company. And it's based in Massachusetts. It's
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: a good job. It's a good position. He takes it.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: And in April 1961, just for logistics and everything else,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: they moved to Lincoln, Massachusetts, to Old Bedford Road. Now
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Old Bedford Road, it's near a historical site. It's close
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: to where the British were treated after the battles of
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: Lexington and Concord, right? And the government was actually laying
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: out this historical park, the Minuteman National Historical Park. It's
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: there now. At the time it was, I think they
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: were preparing it or it was under construction, but it
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: was there. Anyway, in Lincoln, Martin went to work and
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: Joan stayed home with the kids. In Lincoln, it's designed
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: to kind of be a little bit more country. Like,
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: it's like a country suburb is the best way I
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: can describe it. Like, the police department's small. You know,
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: you've got like these lanes that you can walk on.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: You've got fresh air. I mean, there is like, there's
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: a small police department and there is like, you know, like...
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: there is stuff nearby. You've got like prisons, air force bases,
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff. But Lincoln is determined to
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: try and keep that little bit more country atmosphere. And
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: there's a good bunch of estates now in the southern
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: part of Lincoln. And there was farmland being developed. It was.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: It was nice. I'm going to go with middle class, right?
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: It was middle class, right? Like, there's woods, there's, like, farm.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: And then, of course, like, just a little bit outside that,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: you've got Route 128, which is, like, the biggest, or
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: at least one of the biggest highways in eastern Massachusetts.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: And that's, like, the eastern border of Lincoln. And, like,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: less than a mile from the Rush House, right, there's
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: an Air Force base there. And there's like personnel there.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: There's like 10,000 people working there. And that's like, I
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: think just over 2,000 is like military personnel and the
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: rest are civilian. But like there's people up there. And
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: it's quite an expensive town to live in at the time.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: So it's very well kept up. And they really like
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: being here. They've got a wee garden and they like
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: to potter about in the garden. Right? They would walk
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: their kids places. Like they were just really happy in
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: their life. But they hadn't really lived there for very long.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, they move in in April and the incident
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: happens in October. And so they had only like started
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: to get to know people. Like when they had their housewarming,
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: when they had their housewarming party, like when they had
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: their housewarming party, They didn't invite any of the neighbours.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: They invited like old friends from back home, which is
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: like they just hadn't gone out of the way to
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: meet anybody yet. Like it wasn't like a slight. It
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: was just like they hadn't really gotten out to it yet.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: That being said, Joan did know like a few people around.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: There was a neighbour who lived across the road, the Barker's.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: So Barbara Barker, like the two of them, they both
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: had young kids, right? And so they would just kind
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: of play date. You know, one would leave their kids
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: with the other when they had to go run errands.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: Like it was like super common. Like, and it's funny
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: because Joan's like really protective of her kids. Like if
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: she's going across the road with Lillian, like she'll walk
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: over with her, right? She doesn't let her walk on
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: her own. But, like, Barbara would, like, watch from the
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: window and watch, like, her son, you know, go across
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: the road. Just, you know, protective. It's fine. Also, you're
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: kind of in a new area. Like, I get it.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: There's another neighbour who's, I think, like, two doors up.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: And that is Mary Jane Butler. And I think the
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: Schwartz house is between... So it's, like, Barker, Schwartz, Butler.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: And so they all... kind of know each other, right? Like,
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: they're kind of starting to get, like, slowly more friendly. Like,
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: Joan isn't one to just come out with a lot
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: of information. You know, she's not like me. She doesn't
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: have word vomit, right? So she's a bit more reserved
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: when she's talking about stuff. Now, she did join the
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: League of Women Voters, right? So she was there involved
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: in that. So, like, she was doing some things and
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: she was slowly becoming more social and Because, I mean,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: she has a toddler and a young girl. Like, neither
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: kid is in school. So she spent a lot of
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: her time focusing on that. And, yeah, she's still getting
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: used to this new neighbourhood that she's moved into. And
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: she's there for six months. Six months only. And then
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Joan Rush disappeared. It's the 24th of October, 1961. Martin
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Rush gets up in the morning because he had to
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: be in New York City that day. Martin was headed
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: to New York for a meeting for Fitchburg Paper because
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: they're looking at developing, like, a new type of paper.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: And he's meeting this dude called Kaufman. So he has
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: to get up super early. Like, Joan and the kids
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: are still in bed. So she's like, have a good day,
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: have a good trip. You know, as one does. So
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: he's up, he's out and he's off to New York City.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: By 9am Joan has the kids washed, dressed and fed.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: She pops over to Barbara to drop David off because
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: she's heading over to Bedford which is like one town
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: over because Lillian has a dentist appointment. So they go
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: to the dentist, they do a little bit of shopping
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: and then they're back home just before 11am. So She
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: goes over to Barbara's house. She picks up David. They
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: have a normal chat and nothing untoward, like nobody seeing
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: anything weird or strange. Joan goes back home. She feeds
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: her kids lunch. And like actually just before lunch. Walton Colburn,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: who's like, it's one of the clothes cleaning companies. He
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: comes to pick up some clothes, you know, to go
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: get dry cleaned or whatever. This is wild to me.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: It's like someone came over to clean their clothes. And
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: I was like, wow, door to door dry cleaning. This
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: is wild to me. I'm like arguing with my washing
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: machine right now. And I'm like, oh, this would be great. Oh,
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: if someone else could fold my clothes for me, like
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: that would be amazing. But I actually had a friend, sidebar,
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: I actually had a friend come over one time just
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: to help me fold clothes. Because I was like, I
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: can't do this. It's such a hassle. And so we're
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: there like drinking wine and folding clothes, which is like
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: a folding clothes party. It really made me feel good.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: Like it's amazing the kind of stuff, like you can
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: talk shit and do whatever when you're folding clothes. It
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter. But like I just struggle to do it. Like,
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: I gotta put a podcast on to fold clothes, a
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: task that takes approximately like three and a half minutes,
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: and I need to put on a 20-minute podcast for that? Like, nope.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: So the clothes cleaner man, he left around quarter past
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: to half eleven, and that's like just before lunch. So
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: then the kids get lunch, and then David is put
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: up for a nap. So David's nap time is usually
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: between like twelve and two, right?
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: So.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Because at this point, David had his own little sleep routine.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: If you put him to bed, or put him down
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: for his nap a little bit too early, or you
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: left him a little bit too late, he would get cranky,
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: and yeah. So, and when David was napping, like, she
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: would use this time to either, like, play with Lillian,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: or to read a book. Like, she loved reading books. Like,
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: she loved reading. Like, there's a reason she was in,
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: you know, an English major. But around twenty past one
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: that day, the next-door neighbour... comes over Douglas Barker he's
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: four like he's so her him and Lillian are the
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: same age right and so he walks over by himself
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: he comes over to play which is like super normal
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: like this happened all the time and he would usually
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: come over like during David's nap time this was a
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: very normal thing for him to do so while Douglas
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: and Lillian are playing like she's just out pottering in
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: the garden she's like trimming hedges or like she's doing
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: bits and pieces So just before two, so about five, two,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: like David's still having his nap and Joan takes Lillian
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: and Douglas across the street. And so she takes Lillian's
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: wee bike, her wee bicycle with her. And so she
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: walks them over to Barbara's like around the back of
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: the house because they've got a set of swings. And
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: she's like, there you go. Play there for a bit, right?
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: She'll be back in a little while. Now, she doesn't
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: mention to Barbara that she's dropped the kids off. And
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: this is not unusual. Like, oh my goodness, I made
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: the mistake of listening to one of the true crime
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: podcasts about this case and they were like, she left
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: the children behind the house without telling her neighbour that
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: they were there. And it's like, it's like drawn out
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: for drama purposes and I'm like, no, this was a
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: very normal thing. They would drop the kids off at
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: each other's houses and I don't know if you know four-year-olds,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: but unless they're up to mischief, they're loud. Like, Barbara's
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: in the kitchen of her house and the two kids
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: come in and they're arguing over, like, what they're going
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: to play and what they're going to do. Now, Lillian's
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: got her bike and Douglas, he needs his, like, stabilisers,
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: his training wheels on it. And so that's what Barbara's
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: doing at this point. She is putting the stabilisers on
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: his bike for him. So they're kind of inside the house.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: About quarter past two, like, Barbara hears a noise. It's something...
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: She says it's kind of like a shout. She couldn't
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: hear what it was exactly because it was a cool day.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: The windows weren't open. And so she couldn't quite hear
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: what was happening at that point. So this is when David,
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: he's usually awake from his nap at this point because
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: this boy does not like to be.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Left, right?
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: He gets super cranky. But like when Barbara looks outside,
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: she doesn't see David. She sees Joan outside. So she's
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: in the driveway. Like she's behind the car She's kind
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: of running with her arms outstretched, right? Like, she's not
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: carrying anything. She kind of looks like she's reaching for something. And, like,
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: one of the kids is just like, oh, it's probably
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: just David. Like, because he's a toddler. He's two. He's, like, tottering.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: And he's small, so you would not necessarily see him.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: So their theory is the kids are just like, she's
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: probably just chasing him because the arms are outstretched, you know.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: And like Barbara says, because she's recalling this, that she
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: thought she saw something red in front of Joan. But like,
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: we don't know what it was. We have no consideration
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: or possibility for what it could be. She just saw
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: something red and we don't know what that is. Now,
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: the first statement that Barbara gives to the police, she
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: says that she saw Joan go back into the house.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Now the second and third statement she gives, she doesn't
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: mention that at all. So we don't know if it
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: did happen or whether she just thought it might have happened. Oh,
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: and Joan's wearing a full-on trench coat. So she's going somewhere.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: You're not putting on your trench coat just to walk
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: around your house. So it looks like she's going to
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: go somewhere. But after this point, Barbara does not see
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: Joan again. So.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: Barbara's in her house. The house next door, Mrs Schwartz,
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: the Schwartz's house. So her and a few friends, they're
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: in the garden. They're at a table playing bridge, right?
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: And then the next house to them, Mary Jane Butler,
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: she's in her house. So I'm getting my houses mixed up.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: The Schwartz's was like diagonally across from Barbara's. Listen, listen,
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: geography is not my strong point, lads. So next door
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: to Barbara on the other side is.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: And Virginia Keane, she's sick that day. So she's at
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: home and she's bored because she's sick. So she's looking
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: out the window a couple of times. Like close to
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: that as well, you've got the Robuchons who are there
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: and they're doing like woodworking. So like there's a lot
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: of stuff going on. And also there's a lot of
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: people around. Like there's a lot of neighbours in the vicinity.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: There's a couple of cars going by, but nothing too unusual,
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: nothing weird. And so between quarter past two and 4 p.m., Like,
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: nothing really happens. Now, I say that, like, around about 3, 3.30, like,
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: at the Schwartz house when they're out playing their cards, right?
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: They hear what they think is a scream. Or, like,
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: one of the four women playing bridge, they're just like,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: it just sounded like, just like an, ah, like an, ooh,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: like an, they were like, like a scream of pain
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: as opposed to a, ah, scream of fear, you know?
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: That's what they say. So, yeah, one of them says
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: they hear, like, a scream of pain. Another one's like,
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: that was a cat. And then, like, Mrs. Schwartz thinks
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: it's just kids playing, right? Because it's a neighbourhood. There
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: are children. It's... So, like, at the time, they just, like,
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: dismiss it. Because they're like, eh, it's just a noise
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: by an animal or a child. Like, very, very normal.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: Very typical. Now, a little bit after four, Barbara, like,
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: is getting ready to go. She's taking the kids out
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: to do some errands. She's packing her kids into the car.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: She's away to do some errands. And so she takes
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Lillian back across the street and she just kind of
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: drops her off, you know, at the house. And so
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: Lillian just walks into the front door. Barbara doesn't go in.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: She has no need to. So then she goes back.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: She goes and does her errands. And when she comes back, right,
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: she's away for 15 minutes, maybe.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: 20, right?
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: She just gets back into the drive, takes her kids
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: out of the car. And then Lillian comes back across
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: the street herself, which is really weird because Joan is very,
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: very protective of the kids. She doesn't let them cross
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: the road on their own. She always crosses with them.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: So this is already odd for Barbara. And Barbara's literally
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: just off the phone, right? She's come back, made a
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: phone call. Lillian's at her house. And she says that
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: her mom is missing and that David is crying in
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: his crib. And she's like, okay, that's odd. So she
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: grabs Douglas, she grabs Lillian and she heads across to
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: the house to see what's going on, right? So there's
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: this quote that gets attributed to four-year-old Lillian that the
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: quote is, mama's gone and the kitchen is covered in paint. right?
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: But what do you know? It was the newspapers. Those
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: journalists were doing it again. Yeah, so that was a
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: quote that ended up in the newspapers. Now, it's likely
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: that it was closer to something Douglas has said because
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: Douglas was like, oh, your kitchen has red paint because
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: kids say weird things. They look at it and they
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: think of the simplest solution. But yeah, so like when
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: they get into the kitchen, like There is blood that's
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: covering like it's an arc from an area like near
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: the hallway through to the middle of the kitchen. Like
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: the receiver had been ripped off the phone, like off
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: the wall. There was like this little table that had
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: been thrown into the hallway that led from like the
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: kitchen into the sitting room area. Right. And art paper, books,
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: like everything is strewn about the room. Like it's ransacked effectively. Like,
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: it looks like a bunch of stuff was, like, just
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: thrown off the kitchen table. So, like, which is... And
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: a bunch of books that sat under the phone as well, like,
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: they were gone. So the bloodstains were, like, very, very
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: heavy surrounding the area where the phone would have been.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: They're on the wall and on the floor. And the
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: blood kind of follows the wall between the kitchen and
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: the dining room. And then it's in that sort of arc. Now,
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: there's like a little bin, like a little trash basket,
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: like in the middle of the floor. And it's got
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: like a bunch of like, you know, typical trash, garbage,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: rubbish in it. And the phone, like the receiver, was
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: just sort of sitting on the corner of it, like
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: just kind of hanging. Now, that is the kind of
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: thing that can happen randomly, but it just sort of
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: looks like it was placed there. It also looks like
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: someone tried to clean up some of the blood. Now,
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: and Barbara realises that Lillian, she's left Lillian and this
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: all on her own. So, around about quarter to four,
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: she dropped this kid in here. And, like, she had
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: been alone in the house with her little brother upstairs
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: crying in his crib. And that Like Lillian doesn't quite
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: understand what's going on but Barbara is like understandably quite concerned, right?
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: So what they do is they go upstairs. So Barbara's like, right,
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: I'm getting this baby. So she goes upstairs, gets David
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: out of his crib and for the record, David isn't
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: wearing clothes. He's not wearing it. Well, he's wearing a nappy,
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: a diaper, right? That's what he's wearing. He's got his
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: pampers on or whatever. Maybe it was a cloth diaper.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know. So he slept in just the nappy, right?
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: That's what he slept in. But he wasn't wearing anything red.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: So the red thing. And so because he's there, like
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: they don't know if, you know, he was taken out
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: and then put back in. Like he was taken out
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: at two like he normally is and put back in after.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Or whether he's been there this whole time. Now his
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: nappy is absolutely sodden. Like it's very, very wet, right?
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Just because he's been there. And so she's like, okay.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: So she's like, everybody out of the house, right? So
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: they get there. They run across the street. They phone
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Mary Jane Butler to see if maybe Joan's there, right?
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: She's like, where could she be? She knows Mary Jane.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: Let's call her. So she wasn't. And so Barbara and
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: Mary Jane, they're like, they're going to go through the
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: house together. They've decided they're going to do a sweep
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: just to see if Joan's there. Maybe she's injured. Maybe
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: something's happened. So they go back into the house. And
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: so they move the table so they can get around it.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: And they look in like the wastebasket. So they do that,
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: but they tell the police leader that that's the exact
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: thing they've done. They try their best not to disturb anything.
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: So they go through the house. They go down to
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: the cellar to see if maybe Joan's ended up in there.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: And Mary Jane is like, I do not like this.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: And so they hightail it out of the cellar because
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: she's not down there. And so Mary Jane just goes
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: outside because she's freaked out at this point. And Barbara
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: just continues to look around the house. So after Barbara
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: comes out, they both go to their houses and Barbara
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: calls the police. And so it's about 4.30 in the afternoon.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: So she calls the police and then Mary Jane, what
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: she does is she calls the Fitchburg paper or the
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Fitchburg paper company because her purpose is to get in
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: contact with Martin because she's like Martin need to get
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: home basically. What she doesn't know is that Martin's in
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: New York. Now everyone's thinking at this point like something
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: bad has happened like there's been an accident. Joan is
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: injured somewhere. Like, that's the prevalent theory. Now, when the
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: police show up, there's like one of the, oh God,
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: one of the investigators, he shows up and he's just like,
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: probably suicide, even though, There's no body. Where did she go?
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, she... Now, I don't want to make assumptions. However,
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: I do not trust the person leading this investigation if
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: their assumption is that this woman ended her own life
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: somewhere in this building. Because what did she do with
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: her own body? So Officer Mike McHugh, he's brought to
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: the house, right? Because he's on another call And they're like, hey,
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: can you just swing by? And he's like, sure. So
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: he comes by the house. Like, he sees the two
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: women waiting outside. And he's like, okay. He checks Joan's car,
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: which is still in the driveway. He goes inside. Like,
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: there's blood everywhere. It's in the kitchen. Like, it's concentrated
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: mainly in the kitchen area, but it's in other places
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: around the house. Like, there's droplets, you know, going up
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: the stairs. And there's a little bit outside the house. Like, it's...
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Like there's droplets kind of everywhere. So he goes around
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: the perimeter of the house to see if, you know,
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: Joan was around. So like there's an acre and a
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: lot of the acreage is like woods. So, and because
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: he realises, oh, there's woods here and he's not going
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: to cover it on his own. So he calls for
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: help from Lincoln Police. So he gets a call and
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: the police chief, Leo Algo, and the deputy police chief,
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: Daniel McGuinness, arrive at the scene. And so they just
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: start investigating and they begin the process of canvassing. They
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: are talking with Barbara Barcra, Mary Jane Butler and the
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: other neighbours. And then they're like, OK, we need to
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: call the state police. And that's when they bring in them. Right.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: So a lot of the homicide cases outside of Boston,
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: or all of them probably, actually, are they are normally
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: handled by the Massachusetts State Detectives, which are part of
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: the state police. They're not the uniform branch. They're a
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: plainclothes branch. And so, yeah. They, Detective Lieutenant, George Harness, like,
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: he shows up with Joe Ryan. So they look at
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: the scene. They get in contact with the District Attorney
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: for Middlesex County, which includes Lincoln. And all of these
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: people arrive at the rush house... And now, John Johnny,
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: he's like, this seems suspicious, right? Because he's like foul play.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: This is definitely foul play. And so they end up
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: contacting the Public Safety Commissioner of Massachusetts. Now, we don't
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: know whether they came, but they also get in touch
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: with the FBI because they're like possible federal kidnapping crime.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: They end up bringing in one of the chemists from
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: the lab at the Massachusetts State Police headquarters, right? Frank Bianco. And, like,
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: a photographer who was, like, a sergeant, they bring him. Like,
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: they take two to three hours, like, combing through the house,
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: taking pictures, looking for fingerprints. And there were a number found,
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: but they don't know how badly the scene has been
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: contaminated from the people that have already been through. But,
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: They were able to identify two fingerprints and a palm
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: print that they couldn't associate with anybody who they knew
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: had been in the house. So there's this palm print
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: that doesn't belong to anybody. They took prints from the
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: police that had been in the house, from the neighbours,
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: from anybody who could have visited the house in six months,
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: basically so they could eliminate them as potential suspects. Now,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: the chemist, Frank Bianco, says that Like, even though it looks, like,
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: dangerous because there's so, like, it looks like there's a
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: lot of blood, he's like, there's only, like, half a
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: pint here. So, like, it's not inconsistent with, like, hemorrhaging
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: or a physical injury, but, like, it's not necessarily, you know,
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: a life-threatening amount of blood to be lost. The FBI
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: say that they cannot claim jurisdiction because they can't like,
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: prove whether or not Joan had been kidnapped. Now, they do,
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: you know, help the state police and the Lincoln police
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: and do other stuff, but... So basically, they're like, it's
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: your problem, boys. The police analysed somewhere between 5,000 and
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: 10,000 fingerprints. And they interviewed, like, witnesses even outside of Massachusetts. Like,
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: it is... wild. They even bring down a bloodhound, right? Sadie,
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: Sadie the bloodhound, right, who actually ends up, unfortunately, uh,
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: bad news, this is two dogs in one episode, so
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: Sadie ends up passing away a few weeks after the investigation, right? So,
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: so the dog follows the scent, but it's only able
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: to follow the scent into the driveway and and then
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: over to Barbara Barker's house, right? Where Joan had been
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: a few times during the day. But like the dog
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: isn't getting any trail going anywhere else whatsoever. It doesn't
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: go down any road. It doesn't go down anywhere else.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: It's basically unable to trace anything. So they can't rule
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: out an accident, but it is seeming highly unlikely that
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: there was an accident. I mean, you have like blood
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: in the kitchen. blood all over the house. It's, you know,
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: up the stairs. It's in the master bedroom. It's, like,
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: droplets are all over. You've got David, who has been
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: in his crib for we do not know how long,
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: but he was definitely in there for hours. Like, we
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: don't know whether it's, you know, two, four, however long,
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: but he was there more than he should have been.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: You know, the phone is ripped off the wall, right?
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: It's ripped. Like, stuff is askew all over downstairs. Like,
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: so it is looking less and less like some kind
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: of accident happened and then that Joan had tried to
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: go get help in some sort of delirium state. Now,
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: Martin would go on to say that Joan, like, she
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: was so protective of the kids. She was like a
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: lioness and she would, you know, get between anyone and
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: her kids. So, like, she would fight, which you wouldn't
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: expect from the mild-mannered lady in the League of Women Voters. Like,
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and the trench coat that she was seen
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: wearing earlier in the day, it's back hanging in the closet. Like,
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: it's in there and it does not have any blood
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: on it. So when they're questioning, like, friends and neighbours,
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: they chat to Virginia Keane, who's sick that day. She's
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: off school because she's sick. She's 13 and she is sometimes, like,
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: a babysitter for Lillian and David, right? So.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: Somewhere between, you know, 20 past three, half three, Virginia
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: says that she saw a car she didn't recognise, like,
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: parked behind, like, Jones. It was, like, close to the street,
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: but it was very close to the house. It was
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: a two-tone blue or grey sedan, right? Now, about 10,
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: 20 minutes later, Hilda Ziegler, who is.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: Another neighbour, right? She is like driving up Old Bedford
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: Road and she slows down to let a car, you know,
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: back out of the driveway. Now, Hilda, she isn't exactly sure,
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: but she thinks that the driveway is either the Rish's
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: or the Keane's. Like, she doesn't know which one is which.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: So she can't quite remember exactly. Now, this isn't the
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: first time you know, a blue tone grey sedan is
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: seen there, right? The milkman said that he saw it
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: five days earlier on Thursday, October 19th, right? So he
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: had seen it, he said when he made his delivery,
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: it was parked in the driveway close to the house, right? Now,
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: nobody seems to know who the car belongs to, right?
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: There's a few theories that you know, Joan was being
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: stalked by an intruder or kidnapper, or that she was
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: seeing a doctor for an issue that she wanted to
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: keep private. Like, there's always that theory of like, oh,
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: she was having an affair or she wanted to have
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: an abortion. Like, these theories come to the surface quite
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: a lot. But what if it's just a salesperson, right?
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: Which is, you know, You had people travelling door to door, like,
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: selling insurance and pots and pans and vacuum cleaners, right?
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: This wasn't unusual, like, for the time period. I mean,
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: it's an affluent-ish neighbourhood. You know, people are doing well.
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: People have money to spend. And you contact the housewife
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: to order the things. right? Because, okay, so here's a
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: fun fact that people seem to forget about the whole
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: trad wife situation. Sidebar. So what would happen is women
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: managed the money. So men would go to work, they'd
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: come back and they would hand their paycheck to their wife.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: who would manage all of the household bills, right? They
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: would do the budgets. Like, that was very typical. They
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: controlled the money, right? Because they knew how much, you know,
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: the butcher cost or the milkman or, you know, the
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: stuff they needed for the house. Like, the whole point
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: is that it's your own home. Like, that's what you
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: did back in the day. So, you know, Don't accuse
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: women of being gold diggers if all your chains are gold-plated, pal.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: But this car and driver, right, this blue-tone, blue-grey sedan, right,
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: has never been seen, the driver's never come forward, but, like,
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: it could very well be, you know, it could very
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: well be just, like, a travelling salesman because, like, if
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: you're going town to town, door to door, you know,
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: it might, if they didn't buy the thing, it might
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: not be Relevant? You know, you might not remember that
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: exact street or be like, I might not put two
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: and two together. So somebody finally manages to get through
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: to Martin Risch and once he hears the news that
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: something's wrong, that his wife is missing, he's hot-footing it
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: back home. Like, he gets back, right? Now, things get
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: weird in the Risch household because, like, when he's back home, right,
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: his dad comes to stay with him, his dad Rene. Like,
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: he comes, he's going to help out and look out, but, like,
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: when he's at the house, like, Rene starts getting really
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: weird phone calls. And, like, when he answers the phone,
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: nobody says anything, right? They just hang up. Now, at
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: one point, they get a housekeeper to come and look
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: after the kids. And, right, so... the housekeeper answers the
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: phone and a woman says on the phone, is that you, Flossie? Now,
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: the housekeeper's like, I'm not Flossie, I don't know who
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: Flossie is, but like, the woman just hangs up on
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: the phone on her. Now, Martin's, it's not Martin, it's actually, sorry,
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: Joan's aunt Florence, right? Like, they call her Flossie and
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: she would sometimes come and help out with the kids,
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: but You get in these random phone calls and someone's
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: asking for Flossie and it's weird, right? It's just unusual.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: Because like the only people that call Florence Flossie are
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: Martin and Joan. So it's just weird. So the investigators
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: are continuing to investigate and they see that her blood
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: type is O. right? And so the blood that they
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: test in the house is also, oh, now that is
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: as much as they can get at the time with
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: regards to investigating regarding the blood, right? That is all
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: the evidence they can scientifically obtain. Now, same blood type
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: as Joan, that's about it. So two months after Joan's
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: mysterious disappearance, a new investigator is on the case, right?
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: So This is Lieutenant Frank Joyce. So he just starts
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: reviewing all the information and he realises, you know, there's
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: a bunch of unidentified prints and they don't have Joan's fingerprints.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: Like they can't compare them. Now, Joan's cousin, like she
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: was saying that, you know, they got fingerprinted at grammar school.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: And so he's like, maybe Joan was fingerprinted at school
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: as well. And what do you know?
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: She was.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: So he takes the fingerprints and he, you know, looks
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: at them against the ones they've collected in the house
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: and they don't match. The bloody fingerprints in the kitchen
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: do not belong to Joan. So someone else was in
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: the house with her that day. With a lot of these, like,
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: missing persons, when someone disappears, there's always sightings and there
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: are quite a lot of witness accounts for the day
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: Joan disappeared. Like, you have quite a good number of
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: people seeing like a woman who they thought was Joan
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: around town. They describe a woman in her early 30s
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: wearing a grey coat with a light handkerchief over brown hair, right? Now,
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: it's a fairly believable timeline. The first sighting's around 2.45
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: and then they kind of go out from there. A
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: woman is spotted alongside the road of Route 2A, which
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: is like 200 yards past Old Belford Road. So she was... Now,
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: if this was the same person, it is unlikely that
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: she could have walked that far, that fast, and would
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: have had to hitch a ride to get there. But
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: she's dazed and dishevelled and her head was down in
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: her hands and she was cradling her stomach like she
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: was carrying something. Now, at 25 past four, a woman
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: was seen about a mile and a half north of
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: the previous sighting. And this time she was like on
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: the edge of the road of Route 128. Like her
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: head forward and both hands in her pockets. and had
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: blotches of, like, mud on both sides of her legs. Now,
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: this woman was never found or confirmed. It was never
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: confirmed to be Joan. Now, because two of these sightings
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: were next to the Cambridge Reservoir, the police sent in divers,
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: but Joan wasn't found there either. Like, I'm suspicious at
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: this being Joan, because, like, why would you go that
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: far and not go across the street? Like, why would
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: you go up the road And why didn't the people
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: playing bridge see her? Why didn't, you know, the neighbours,
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: why did nobody see a woman covered in blood leaving
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: the house, right? Did she go out the back and
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: through the woods maybe? But like, if you're going to run,
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: like it's not that hard to loop around and like
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: run into like the neighbours. Like there's, there's routes and options.
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: Something that comes up quite often is Joan's, library book
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: right so it all starts 16 months after Joan Rush's
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: disappearance and so you've got like Serene Gerson she's this
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: reporter of like this local newspaper and she's at the
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: library and she's you know looking through books and there's
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: you know this book called The 27th Wife and it's
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: about it's about the wife of Brigham Young who was
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: like the second like prophet of the And he's the
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: one who's like the founder of Salt Lake City. And
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: he had like, what, 55 wives? Anyway, so in this book,
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: Anna Eliza Webb is one of the wives who like
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: leaves him abruptly to go start a new life. And
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: as she's like reading this book, she notices the checkout card.
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: And on the checkout card is Joan Rush's signature, which
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: is dated on the 16th of September, 1961, which is
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: just five weeks Before she disappeared. Serena keeps looking through
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: stacks of books. Because, like, this is setting off alarm
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: bells for her. And she finds another one called Into
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: Thin Air that has Joan's signature. It's been checked out
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: for her. It's about a woman who vanished, leaving behind
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: only blood smears and a towel. And it was checked
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: out on the 11th of May. Now, Serene is like,
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: that's suspicious. And so she goes to the Lincoln Library Committee.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: And the Lincoln Library Committee assemble a group of volunteers
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: to compile a list of books that Joan had borrowed
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: over the six months, like, before she disappeared. Like, this is, like,
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: from her move there to that, right? And so they
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: go through, like, All of these books. And this is
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: before the computer system, so they have to open it
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: up and look inside. So they're doing this manually. They're
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: opening every single book. They're reading everyone, looking for her signature. Now,
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: Joan had borrowed 25 books, books with similar subjects, in
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: the last six months since she moved to Lincoln. Into
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: Thin Air by Harry Carmichael. The Hunt for Richard Thorpe.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: The Death of the Heart. But there's also stuff like
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: The Immortal Queen, which is all about Mary, Queen of Scots.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: So there's all these books that are like, people vanish,
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: people disappear. And I'm just like, okay, so she likes
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: a genre which could mean something or it could be
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: incredibly coincidental. Like, Now, Martin was well aware that Joan
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: liked suspense novels. He didn't know how many were to
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: do with disappearances, but like, yeah, I'm sorry, somebody was
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: into true crime. A woman was into true crime. Are
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: we shocked? But yeah, like, here's the thing, like, there's some, like,
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: historical stuff and then you've got true crime. And the
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: only release, like, this is the list of books they've
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: released which have these themes, right? Now, like, they don't
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: list the rest of the books, right? So we have, like,
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: a couple. But the other could literally be, like, Mrs
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: Norton's Guide to Good Housekeeping or it could have been about,
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know, 1920s Chicago. Like, we don't know exactly
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: what the rest of the books were, but there was
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: enough that were about disappearances that made people go, oh, no. So, like, please,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: I don't hold that much weight in it because, listen,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: I own far too many books about poison. Now, if
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: I get poisoned, of course, it was an attack. It
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: was a personal attack on me because I'm a delight.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: But no, If someone around me gets poisoned, it doesn't
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: necessarily mean it's me because, I mean, not this, I
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: have a podcast all about poisons. It'd be pretty ridiculous
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: for me to do that. Or would it be so
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: ridiculous that it would throw people off the scent that
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: I did it? Questions. That's, again, another story for another day.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: But like, yeah, because she has all these books on disappearances,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: this is what leads to this, the runaway theory. right? And, like, Martin,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: Martin Rush, like, he is, you know, preferring this theory
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: because he's like, maybe she'll just come home one day. Like,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: he never remarries, like, he refuses to move, you know, like,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: he refuses to move until the National Park Expansion Project, like,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: forces him to sell. Like, he keeps his telephone number
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: just in case Joan decides to call. Like, he raises kids,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: he never remarries. Now, The authorities never confirm, you know,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: or deny the validity of the runaway theory. Now, tip
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: calls and letters keep coming in, but none of them
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: are ever, right, none of them are ever confirmed. And
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: on the 22nd of June 2009, Martin Donald Rush passes
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: away at the age of 79, never giving up on
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: his wife. So, everything else at this point is a theory.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: We have no evidence. It's all just... What happened to
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: Joan Rish? There's the theory that she actually wasn't happy
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: at home and she decided to fake an attack and
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: just disappeared. Like, even though it meant leaving her children
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: who she, by all accounts, was devoted to. So, she leaves.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: That's theory number one.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: So.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: Theory number two, which is quite common, is the botched
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: home abortion. So because of all the blood found in
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: the kitchen with the phone ripped from the wall and
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: the phone book, which was open to emergency numbers, which
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: I forgot to mention earlier, right? And the idea of
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: a woman bleeding with her arms out, it's an idea
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: that she had a doctor over, which is why the
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: car was there. There was a botched abortion and it
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: resulted in This, and either the person killed her after
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: the abortion to cover up the fact that they performed it, or, like,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: things just took a turn and she ends up just
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: in delirium, just walking out the house. There is a
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: concept of number three, the violent intruder. So you have
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: blood smears, you know, all over the house. You've got
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: blood spatter like drops are up the stairs. They're in
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: the bedroom. They're all over the house. And Joan's not there.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: You know, unusual cars are seen nearby. Was someone stalking her?
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: Was it a jilted lover? Were her and Martin having
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: issues in their marriage? Like what was going on? Did
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: someone come in? Did they kidnap her? Did they, you know,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: did she fight them? And then they took her with them, right?
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, you're near a highway. It wouldn't take long
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: to get out on that highway and go because nobody
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: would be looking for her at that point. There's the
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: idea that because, you know, construction was happening near the
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: area that she had, you know, for whatever reason, wandered
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: off to a construction area and some kind of accident occurs,
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: her body ends up underneath some concrete. Theory number four.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: Theory number five is the medical emergency, like a sudden hemorrhage, which,
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: you know, explains the emergency phone numbers and that she's just,
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: you know, desperate for help. But if she's thinking for help,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: but she doesn't want to scare the children, which is
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: why she wouldn't run across to Barbara, possibly. There's also.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: I'm going to throw this out there as possibility number five, six,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: is that she had an episode, right? That she had
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: some kind of psychotic break, you know? And it just
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: led to this. I mean, I actually couldn't find any
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: information on whether or not Joan was on any of
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: Mother's Little Helper or anything like that. Like, I couldn't
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: find any info. Like, it's never mentioned anywhere. And would
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: it have been relevant? Would they think it's relevant? Whom's
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: to say? But, like, what if she was? What if
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: someone had told her, you know, go on this stuff,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: it helps you get through your day, and then she
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: stops taking it, something happens? Like, it's just a possibility. But, like,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: there are no.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: If she were alive today, if she were still alive,
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: she'd be 96. Like, did she just leave and start
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: a new life somewhere? Did she just duck out of life? Like,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: we have no idea what happened to Joan Rush, but
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: I do think it's interesting that the moment there was
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: any information because of the type of book she read,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: that the blame was... like put back on her again,
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: like this was something she did. And she's one of
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: the cases I think about all the time because there's
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: nothing to indicate why. And because it's so close to
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: the highway, I just assume something bad happened to Joan.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: But that's my theory. And that is the story of
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: the disappearance. of Joan Rish. Next week, I have a
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: really interesting episode for you, a really interesting disappearance, and
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: then the last one is proper spooky, because, of course,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: do you think I'm not going to give you a
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: spooky episode for, like, just before Halloween? Yes, my darlings. Now,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: with that, I shall bid you good day. Oh, recommendation time!
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: Silly me. So, for readings, Into thin air. Read into
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: thin air. For watching. For watching. Oh, oh, you know what?
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: I watched Carrie. I watched the new Carrie series by
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: Mike Flanagan. And listen, I love Matthew Lillard. I love
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: seeing him as a voice of reason. It's amazing to
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: see him play that character. And also, also, Mike Flanagan.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: How dare you? put Matthew Lillard in slutty little glasses
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: and a button-up shirt with three quarter length sleeves, okay?
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: How dare you do this to me? I'm easily pleased.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: But for listening, for listening this week, you know what?
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: I've been listening to a lot of Sabrina Carpenter this week.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: It just seems to be the way of it this
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: week for me. It's just a lot of her stuff's
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: a bop and You know what I noticed? Sorry, I
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: was listening to Pink Pony Club by Chapel Road and
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: then afterwards I decided I was going to listen to
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: Legs in Show by Glass Vegas, which they don't have
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: on Spotify and it's really annoying. I'm like, dear God,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: stop making it really awkward for me to listen to
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: Legs in Show. It's about a strip club. Anyway, it's
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: a good song. Anyway, that's what I've been listening to.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: And with that, I shall bid you adieu. Adios. Au revoir.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: Au revoir, my friends. Bye-bye.