Latest / The Joe Rogan Experience / #2532 - Tim Robbins

Transcript

#2532 - Tim Robbins · The Joe Rogan Experience

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Podcast check it out.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: But Joe Rogan Experience Train by Day.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Joe Rogan Podcast by Night all day.
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: Jamie's very peeked out.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: I want to let you know. He didn't want to
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: say shaw sh Ant because his all time favorite movie,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: so he was kind of freaking out when he met you. Thanks, Jamie,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's all time. I mean, you're you're a
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: part of one of, like easily one of the greatest
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: movies in the history of people.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: I know, it's such a gift. I mean when people
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: come up and say something about it that it usually
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: is coming from a pretty deep place. You know.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you didn't like that movie, there's something you
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: should go to a doctor. You need medication. There's nothing
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: wrong with you. That's an amazing movie. And weird that
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: it's a Stephen King movie too, you know, he's that guy.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Is arguably one of the most prolific guys in the
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: history of fiction.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and in the same novella there was a stand
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: by Me too.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: Oh wow, So that's amazing.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: So weird. He writes stuff very so much. He had
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: to do like a pseudonym at one point time. Remember
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: he did Richard Bachman because he was turning out so
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: many books, so like, hey, we can't keep selling these
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: fucking Stephen King books. And he's like, well, how would
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: I come up with another name? Like give you a
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: fake day? But he just started killing us. Yeah, wild
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: wild guy man. Yeah, just a very unusual human. You
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: know they exist.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Hold, he met him once?
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Really did you meet him? Like when you were filming
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: the movie.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Around the premiere time? Yeah?
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so he's out there man, you know, during his
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: early days. I'm fascinated by his early days because his
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: early days he was off the rails with cocaine and alcohol.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: And that's some of the best ship that he made.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: He doesn't even remember reading writing it. Wow, I think.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: I think is one of the books his wife took
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: out of the garbage because he threw it away. He's like, fuck,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: this book, it sucks. It was it was Kucho or
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: one of the classics. Yeah, and she was like, are
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: you out of your fucking mind? Like this is incredible
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: And he was literally going to throw it out because
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: he was just out of his mind.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: He wrote the Shining right, yeah, so.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: What was it carry? He threw carry away?
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: Crazy crazy kind of crazy.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Shining was a big movie from a book, big
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: book for me. I was, you know, working in a
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: nine to five job and you know, in between colleges,
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: and it really like woke me up, yeah, to all
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: kinds of great possibilities in writing.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Well, he hated the movie, which is so crazy, because
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: he felt like Jack Nicholson got insane too quickly. Really yeah,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: because in the book. You know, I read the book too.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: It's it's very different, similar, but it's more of a
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: drawn out process of him becoming possessed by the property.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: A slower rollout.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he like Jack Nicholson was kind of kooky already,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: like right away, which you know, it's Jack Nicholson. It's
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: all so Stanley Kubrick. It's like he's got to do
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: his interpretation of it. He just got to accept that.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's some scary shit in that.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: Fuck man, His books are insane.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: It's like, what is going on inside that guy's or
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: was going on inside that guy's mind when he was
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: writing that.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: God knows.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: I think once he got cleaned he kind of changed
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: and straightened out and different, different human now. But boy,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by the off the Rails days because the
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: books were so nuts.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Was Shawshak during that time.
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: I don't know. It must have been.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: It must have been, because I don't think he got
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: sober until it was decades after his career began. And
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: some of the great stuff, like I think all the
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: stand I think all that stuff. He was out of
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: his mind and he was writing all those But.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: In the midst of all that madness, there's a tenderness
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh, a great humanity to it all. Yeah,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: but also just a true understanding of the darkest nature
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: of humans and how they're influenced. And then of course
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: you know, demonic possession and Salem's Lot and all that
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: other crazy shits like it.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: Was just it was so good.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: But then the idea that a library can be the
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: you know in Shawshik, that the library can be the liberation.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, yeah, No, it was an amazing, amazing movie.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: We were talking about your new show Silo, which I
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: not knew. It's been around for three seasons. I just
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: started watching it, so it's new to me. I watched
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: the first two episodes last night. It was fucking great
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: and very original and interesting. And I was telling you
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: before that it made me think of this place that
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: they discovered fairly recently in Turkey called Darren Coo You
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: and Darren Coo you. Is this underground city that's massive.
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: I think it. I think it.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Could I think it could hold twenty thousand people. Wow,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: something nutty like that.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: I've seen pictures of it.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Found completely by accident. Yeah, so some guy lost one
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: of his chickens, went through a hole in the wall
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: and never came back, and he was trying to figure
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: out where this fucking chicken went. So he broke down
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: the wall to see what was going on, and then
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: they realized that there's this insane underground city. God yeah,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: underneath this town in Turkey, and it's massive, just absolutely massive.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: They have no idea who made it, there's no historical
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: record of it, any idea of a when well, you know,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: they make guesses based on stuff they find there. But
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: it's when you carbon dat an object.
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: So you could go visit the Pyramids today, right, and
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: you could leave behind some stuff, right, and then everybody dies,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: humanity dies out in a cataclysm, and then one hundred
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: thousand years from now people start looking through the piles
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: of some of these sites and the Pyramids would probably
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: still be there and if there was any organic material left,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: like a book that you left, or you know, a
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: leather bound book or some piece of wood, could carbon
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: date that and then that would say the time that
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: you were there, but it wouldn't say the time the
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: actual structure was made. So who knows how long? People
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: would show me some more pictures of that place?
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: Do they know?
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: No, definitely don't know. They didn't even know it existed.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: I mean it was when was it found? I feel
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: like it was found in the twentieth century.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: There must have been some kind of hostile force that
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: they built it to.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Exactly, or something going on outside, and not just hostile
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: but environmental. So nineteen sixty three, rediscovered in nineteen sixty three, Wow,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: nuts cot, it is in his fucking house. Even today,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: only ten percent of it is accessible to tourists. The
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: rest is still being explored. That's how nuts it is.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: So how many people do they think it held when
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: it was operational? I think it's something like twenty thousand people.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: And that's how big this place is.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: That that's amazing.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: So they don't know when or why, and depending on
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: how around twenty thousand people plus livestock and food stores.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: Really how they farmed down there.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Who fucking knows, I don't know. But they had grain storage.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: They had all kinds of stuff down.
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: There, oil presses, eighteen levels, they're reaching eighty five meters
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: so two hundred and eighty feet deep into the ground,
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: with ventilation shafts, wells, stables.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: Wine and oil presses, storage rooms, chapels, and school rooms,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: plus a half ton circular stone doors that could be
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: rolled shut from the inside only. So they were obviously
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: either fighting off some sort of an army, or the
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: outside air was hostile, there was something going on too hot,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: or it could have been yeah, yeah, Well, there's been
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: many moments in the time that human beings were alive
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: where there have been cataclysms. You know, there's this thing
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: called the Younger Drys impact theory that's around eleven eight
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: hundred years ago. There's all this evidence that there was
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: massive asteroid impacts all.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: Over the Earth, common impacts.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: And they think that it was probably a reset of civilization,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: and so this could have been post that it could
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: have been how some people survived in these areas.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: Human beings have this amazing ability to survive. Yeah, I mean,
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: Which is silo? I mean it's really a silo is
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: a modern version of Darren Kut.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And here I was, you know, in the
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: middle of Lockdown when I received those scripts, and I
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, this is this is actually talking about
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: right now? Yeah, this is about a controlled society where
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: information is sensored and where compliance is necessary and if
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: you don't comply, you get sent out into the hostile environment.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: It was all too familiar metaphorically for me. Perfect timing, Yeah, perfect.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Timing, because you got to think that he must have
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: written that before, right, yeah, years ago, So it was
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: just got lucky, Yeah, yeah.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Perfect, Yeah, Yeah, I've been blessed that way in my career.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think that's about? Do you ever
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: wonder why you're so lucky? Obviously you're very talented, but
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: it's also there's a lot of talented people that don't
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: nothing ever happened.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: I think it comes down to the ability to say
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: no at crucial times when I was facing down either
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: you know, you know, I remember when I first had
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: my first child and I was broke, and I got
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: offered this comedy that was dumb, and it was a
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: million bucks and I needed the money, and I also
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: had an opportunity if I waited. Robert Altman was trying
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: to put together the Player, so I threw caution the
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: wind and said, no, I can't do that stupid comedy.
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: What was the stupid comedy do you remember?
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: Uh? Yeah, it was called Folk. I remember flying out
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: to LA to meet on it, and I'm with Alan
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Arkin and he was the guy that was going to
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: play my father in this thing. And he said, what
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: the fuck are you doing this script for? I said,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: I need the money. He says, I don't know, I'm
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: not sure I want to do this thing right. I
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: was like, thank you, Alan Arkin for confirming what I
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: was thinking.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I said no, And then Player came
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: through and shifted my whole career. So yeah, it's.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: A matter of following that voice in your head, the instinct,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: the one that's telling you this is the right way
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: to go, yeah, even though there's all sorts of influence
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: that want to lead you to the other direction.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: There was a period of time about ten fifteen years
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: ago when I got offered. In the course of seven months,
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: I got offered to play the head of the A
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: three times.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: You wonder what that's all about.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: I couldn't even imagine. I mean, for some reason that
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: was I don't know, I have no idea. And then
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: a couple of years after that, and again you know,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: you're you're looking down at your bills and your mortgages
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: and stuff, and you need the money and just have
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: to I don't want to do that, right Then a
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: few years after, a couple of years after that, I
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: got offered, in the course of a couple of months,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: one to play the head of FIFA, which is a
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: corrupt organization, but in the movie it was you know,
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: you know, they were the best people in the world, right,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: not to mention that the head of FIFA was a
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: Brazilian and I had, you know, but they were offering
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: a ton of money and basically there's FIFA producing a
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: movie about itself.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: Oh wow.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: And after that I got to offer to play the
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: head of the Chilean mine that had just had this
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: huge disaster, and it turns out the mining company was
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: they were really nice people, you know, according to the script.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: It wasn't bad management or anything or you know that
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: that made the disaster happen. So I realized that that
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: the oligarchs are starting to make movie about themselves. It's
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: got all it garkical cinema. It's like they produce movies
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: that make themselves look really good.
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: And you can get away with it.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Oh hell yeah, nobody knows. Nobody cares something. They think
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: they can buy anybody, and they almost bought me. But
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: I just I have to at times, I just have
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: to look, you know, face it down and say, listen,
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: it's not right in my heart. I can't, I can't
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: do it.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's great, you've got that north Star.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: It's great that I had the luxury. Yeah, you know,
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: oftentimes people don't have that luxury.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Right, and one bad decision can pigeonhole you in a
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: bad direction and then you'll never get the ones that
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: you really want. Yeah, these movies about you playing CIA
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: had did they ever get made?
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, yeah? There were TV shows and movies.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: Yeh was any of it any good?
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: No? I remember that. I remember when we were doing
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: movies like you know, The Day of the Condor, you know,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: which was like critical of the CIA. And I think,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: now we have the rogue CIA agents that are actually
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: good guys, and you know, listen, CIA, you know, whatever
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: it does, nobody really knows the extent of what they do,
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: but they do have a lot of good portrayals in the.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's good people that are in the
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: CIA as well, and I think that it's necessary. I
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: just think that they obviously have unchecked power, and they've
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: done some really fucking shady shit, you know, in the
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: name of this is the right thing to do right now,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: including selling drugs.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I remember that Iran Contra. I remember that.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: That's one of the I mean, I remember that because
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: I was I guess, I guess I was either right
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: out of high school. It was like in that area
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: where the whole Oliver Stone thing was on television all
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: the time, and it was Oliver, Oliver North, excuse me,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Oliver North and Ronald Reagan and there was this guy,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Jimmy Tingle, hilarious Boston stand up comedian who had a
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: great joke about it where they're interviewing Ronald Reagan and
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: they say, mister President, did you ever sell arms to
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: people who hate us? And he's like, I don't remember.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: He goes, well, in the future, if you sell arms
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: to people who hate us, jot it down, motivate, put
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: a post it on your refrigerator, today, I sold arms
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: to Iran.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: I remember that. It was in the eighties. I did
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: a play about it. I wrote a play about it,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: really and we performed it with the actors Gang.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a meme that was on social media
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: recently that was it showed Oliver North during the whole
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Iron Content trials when you know, they got caught selling
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: drugs in Los Angeles to fund the Conscious versus the
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Sandinistas Nicaragua, and then he goes to jail and then
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: the same guy you see later on Fox News as
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: like a war analyst, and it's like this hilarious meme
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: like if you told me, if you told me in
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty, whatever the fuck it was, where you know
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: he got in trouble that he would eventually be the
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: guy that they call upon for expert advice on what's
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: going on overseas.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, it's a deep connection that goes back years.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: All the people that get it wrong, they get they
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: got particular Iraq war, they got. Anyone that got it
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: wrong got promotions.
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and no one got in trouble.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: No one got fired. You know, people in the media
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: as well, you know, they promoted it, they got you know,
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: better jobs.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: Well, this is kind of the only time in our
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: lifetimes where there's actual real independent media, you know, where
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: there's independent journalists that are not connected to any major
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: corporations that are operating either on substack or online or
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: on YouTube or on x It's fascinating because they they're
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: the ones that are exposing all these connections that the
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: media and the Central Intelligence Agency and all these other
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: government organizations have had where they've all been working together forever,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: spinning narratives on TV. And so like anytime something like
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: the Iraq War happens, where they go, oh, we've got
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: weapons of mass destruction. We got to go in there,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: no weapons of mass destruction, No one goes away, no
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: one gets in trouble, and the same people are on
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: TV telling you about some new thing that you have
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: to pay attention to. It's like, this is nuts. This
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  Speaker 1: takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintech,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: not a bank. Banking services and Chime Card provided by
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Chimes Bank Partners. Terms and limits apply. Go to Chime
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: dot com slash disclosures for more details.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: Well, some people get in trouble, people that come up
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: out against it, and there's never any apologies. I did
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: I did you know? I risked you know a lot
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: to do it, and you know, wound up being right,
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: But no one ever said, hey, you were right. You know.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: And this was during the Iraq War. Yeah, what did
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: you say?
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: I uh? I was one of maybe five people that
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: were famous that came out against well, went on you know,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: in various television shows and made a couple of speeches.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: I got my appearance at the Baseball Hall of Fame
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: for Bull Durham fifteenth anniversary or something like, canceled by
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: the head of the Baseball Hall of Fame. It was real, uh,
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: you know, you know, it was funny because I was
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: I was doing a show at the time, and I
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: heard about it, and I had I was started writing
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: a response, but uh, it was already printed by the
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: time I had my response, right, So I got the
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: next day, I got a bunch of people contacting me.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: I hired a crisis pr person for the first time
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: in my life, and wound up getting my letter to
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Dale Petrowski, the head of the Hall of Fame, out
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: there with the with the press release. They was basically ambush,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: trying to you know, to call me a trader and
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: all that stuff. Wow. And so I pushed back, and
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: the publicist that I had hired was very smart, said
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: we're going to send us to all the sports writers.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: And it was the sports writers that wrote the articles
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: defending freedom of speech at the time. So it was
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: this was when we were cooking up the war two
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: thousand and three. So and I remember, you know, and
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: I also wrote a piece about that called Embedded uh,
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: that we've performed for the first time of three weeks
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: after Bush landed on that aircraft carrier with a mission
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: accomplished thing, so that one wound up playing it across
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: the country. We toured it and played the New York
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: Public Theater and played in London. But it was attacked
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: when we went to New York. You know, they sent
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: someone from there wasn't a theater critic while we were
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: still in previews and published this thing in I think
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: it was the New Republic basically calling me a conspiracy theorist,
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: and I semied all this stuff to try to discredit
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: this play that was playing at the post.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: How did they connect?
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: You know, that doesn't matter that that's what they throw out.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: There was nothing anti semitic about the play, of course,
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: it was just it's one of the things they used
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: to discredit people.
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: What did you know about?
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: So? What made you compelled to come out against the war?
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: I was reading foreign press. I was reading uh stuff
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: from Europe and what they were writing about the weapons
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: of mass destruction and that there was there wasn't any
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: evidence and it wasn't being covered like it was here.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: It was more open, more transparent, The reporting and so
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: I was trusting that and a trusting sources that I
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: had trusted in the past, and I realized that when
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: I did question, the attacks were vociferous. So usually as
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: a tell, like in poker, that's like a it usually
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: means you're onto something. You're the mark, if they, if you,
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: if they. When I came out against that first war
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: in Iraq in ninety one, I remember the elder Bush said, well,
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: you know, this is a democracy. People have the right to,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: you know, oppose it. And that was their response. But
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: this one was like your trader, your Saddam supporter, or terrorists, sympathizer,
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: all that stuff. They really attacked, and that told me
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: that it's probably over the target, you know.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that had to be a very disturbing moment
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: because look, it turns out you were right. And not
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: only were you right, but now today in twenty twenty six,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: is universally accepted that there were no weapons mass destruction.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: That was a terrible war and it was not something
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: that should have ever happened. Yeah, universally. Yeah, if you
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: said it today, it's not even remotely controversial.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that's the way it works. They finally admit
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: the truth later. You know, I think they're doing that
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: now with COVID. You know, the Fauci's going to do
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: his thing tomorrow and I'm very curious to see what
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: happens with that.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: So well, they don't give you a universal pardon for
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: ten years if you didn't do something, I mean, you don't.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: You don't campaign for that if there's not some some smoke.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a very scary time, you know, it
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: was you know, to come out when when people when,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: when the when the media is attacking you, it's a
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: very scary thing. But the great good fortune I had
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: in two thousand and three, so living in New York
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: at the time, right, so I would have to walk
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: my kids to school, and I remember thinking, oh my god,
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: what's going to happen, you know, are there going to
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: be people yelling at me, et cetera. And that wasn't
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: the truth. The truth was that people, if anything, said,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: you know, way to go, thanks for speaking for us,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: and if they disagreed, they said, you know, you have
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: the right to do it. That's the way generally people
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: are in this country and should be. And we I
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: usually would take every year I would take my kids
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: to the final four and that year it was in
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: San Antonio, and I remember thinking, oh my god, I'm
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: going down to Texas and they're going to yell at
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: me down there. No one said damn thing. So the
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: reality on the ground was a lot different than the
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: reality they were creating. The reality they were creating was
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: to intimidate other people into silence. It wasn't a based
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: on any kind of real reality of people being angry
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: at me. It was more them trying to intimidate others.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: And so that same thing kind of happened. I recognized
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: that same smell when COVID was happening, when people came
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: out and started asking questions and were deplatformed or marginalized
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: or canceled. And you know, I followed what you were
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: going through with the ivermectin, which was a drug that
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: I had taken, and you know, I had lost my
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: sense of smell and a day later it was back,
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: So I knew there was something going on with that.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: And you know, in an emergency, wa I not find
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: whatever you can treat until your magic potion arrives.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't just that, it was like the
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: completely disingenuous characterization of it as a veterinary drug and
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: calling it horse paste, yeah, or horse d wormer, which
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: is crazy. It's crazy to because maybe that would have
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: worked in the nineteen eighty when people would have to
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: go to the encyclopedia to find out what ivermectin really was.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: But when you're trying to do that in twenty twenty,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: it's just too easy to look up. Oh look it
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: got a Nobel Prize for use in human beings. Oh
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: it's great for a yellow fever and dan gave fever
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: and river blindness, and oh, this has been used billions
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: of times. Oh it's one of the safest. Oh wait,
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, it's in the World Health Organization's Essential
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Medicines list. This is crazy, But yet on television it's
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: horse d wormer. And even the Rolling Stone had an
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: article where they showed people waiting in line. They said
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: that people in Oklahoma were waiting in line at the
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: emergency room with gunshot wounds because they couldn't in there
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: because so many people were overdosing from ivermactin, which is
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: just fake. And it's in the Rolling Stone and you're like,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: what is going on? This is this is insane. Even
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: the photograph was fake. The photograph showed people wearing winter
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: coats because really the line was people waiting for a
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: flu shot. That was the actual line, and they were
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: trying to say that these are people waiting in line
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: to go to the emergency room for a gunshot. Was like,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: first of all, how many fucking people are getting shot
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: in ALCOHOLA Like, what's going on over there?
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: There was the street wild stuff going on at the time.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: You know, it's disinformation and.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and just orchestrated propaganda, orchestrated organized with big money
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: behind it. Wild wild to watch.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: I suspect that that whole period of time was another
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: way to divide us, you know, in the in the
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: in the in the larger picture, you know, orchestrated chaos
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: masquerading as a revolution. You know, there's been so many
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: of those things over the past five years, you know,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: you know, alliances that you're building and then all of
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: a sudden, there's a new crisis and now you don't
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: like those people that you were building alliances with, and
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: it's just one after the other, and ultimately, at the
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: end of the day, I think it's all about division.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: It's all about dividing us and making us argue with
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: each other not finding common ground. And that's ultimately the
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: strategy that's been used from time immemorial, you know, for
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: the power to stay in power. How do you get
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: people fighting with each other? Right?
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, people don't like to hear that, but that's that's
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: a strategy that's been used all throughout history. Yeah, and
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: it's a good one and it works. Yeah, it works,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: and especially in today's day and age, when you have
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: social media and then you have not just our government,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: but many governments that have fake accounts, and these people
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: just get outraged about things or attack things, or you know,
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: have a narrative that they and you don't know if
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: it's real people, You don't know what it is, just
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: a bunch of accounts. You go to the accounts a
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: guy's face. You know, it's a woman wearing a dress
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: holding a book. She seems normal. Meanwhile, it's a man
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: somewhere with a bank of computers that are all connected
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: to the Internet that's typing in these different responses with
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: a bunch of different Well now it's AI automated. Yeah,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: you know, you tell this bot to be a right
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: wing nationalist. That's like attacking anything that's.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy and I saw on both sides, and
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: it's nuts. I was over in London doing a project
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: and I noticed this was during their lockdown, and I
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: noticed by my hotel there was this protest and I
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: went down to check it out, put my mask on.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: I was very compliant at the start of all this,
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: and I noticed, you know, what they were portraying as
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: National Front right wingers was actually hippies and homeopaths and
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: free speech activists. And I talked to them and I tweeted, hey,
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's a right left thing here. And
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: hundreds of attacks of whether they're bots or you know,
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: organized army of you know, righteousness, I have no idea,
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: but it was I just at that time, at that point,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: I was like, fuck it, I'm not gonna I'm not
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: going to put my foot in this water. These people
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: are nuts. This is a crazy, crazy time.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was crazy, not just from the propaganda perspective,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: but from actual people that I knew that were really terrified,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: that got caught up in it all. And it was
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: you know, mass formation psychosis is what some people called it. Yeah,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: I think that's a good description of Robert Malone. I
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: think termed that or got that from somebody else, but
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: that that's really what it was like. Everybody just kind
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: of went nutty. And there was people that were doing
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: the government's job for the government, or the pharmaceutical drug
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: company's job for them. They were the ones that were
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: forcing all these things. Yeah, and they were doing it
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: because they wanted to be They wanted a salute, and
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: they wanted to be correct. And unfortunately, there's a lot
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: of people in this world that don't experience much real adversity,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: and when real adversity comes to them, they fall apart
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: and they don't they don't know what to do, and
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: they get scared, and they lump up together in teams
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: and then they reinforce each other and repeat the same things,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: and and they all want to be a part of
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: the right side of history or the right side of
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: whatever it is.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: And also they're being led to believe that that's the
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: virtuous thing to do. And you know, so it's not
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: like they're you know, their their intentions are good, right,
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: And because of that, you know, I've I've had a
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: similar experience where you know, friends of mine and people
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: I love that you know, fell into that as I did.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: I fell into it for a while, you know, that
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: kind of fear based kind of behavior. And I just
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: I've come to understand in my later years that one
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: of the things that's truly liberating is the ability to say,
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know, yeah, and I may have been wrong.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: These are two things that have led to such great
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: discovery for me. It's it's I really don't trust anymore.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: I don't trust virtuous experts. I don't, I don't think.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: I don't think experts are I don't believe in experts.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: I think if you if you consider yourself an expert,
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: you're done learning, you're done speaking with others, you're done
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: challenging yourself. And when we put our faith and trust
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: in people that are deemed experts, ultimately, throughout my experience,
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: it's it's led to bad things. The experts that talked
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: about weapons of mass destruction, the experts that talk about
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: you know, various things that have led us to violent
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: altercations throughout the world. I don't. I don't trust many more.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: I trust the idea that there are many sides to
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: a story, and that there is very there's a lot
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: to be gained from having dialogue with people you disagree with.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, I mean, you know, there are experts in some
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: fields and we do need them.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: It is important.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Like if you want information about the large Hadron collider,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: you don't understand like what are you what are you
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: guys doing over there? Like you need to talk to
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: someone who actually understands it, who's an expert on particle colliders,
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: you know, And it takes a long time to develop
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: that sort of knowledge base and have an understanding of
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: what they're actually trying to accomplish. What is the Higgs boson?
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: What was this particle that is a part of that?
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: What is the earliest stages of the universe? Okay, you're
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: going to measure it. It exists for a quarter of
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: a second or something like that. What are you guys doing? Yeah,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: but the problem is, like to bring it back to COVID.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: One of the things that Fauci said that was so wild.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: He said, when you are criticizing Anthony Fauci criticizing science,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: Well that is just the fact that he felt so
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: confident that he could say that. That is such a
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: crazy thing to say. And then science became like an
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: object religion. Well, science is supposed to be data, it's
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: supposed to be measuring data, and it's supposed to never
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: be settled, and it's always supposed to have a bunch
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: of people from various various positions of viewing down on
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: this thing, analyzing it with new studies, new data, new tests,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: new hypothesis, working out and communicating with each other. It's
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: not supposed to be a brick, like you know, like,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: this is a brick if you question the brick, like no, no,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: this is a fucking fluid thing that exists only if
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: you allow people to ask questions. The moment you stop
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: questioning data then like and even real experts like guys
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: from MIT and Harvard were getting deplatformed off of Twitter
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: because they didn't believe it. They were saying, look, I
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: don't think this lockdown idea is a good idea. I
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: think it's bad for children. I think children aren't even
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: really susceptible to this disease, Like, why why are we
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: doing this? Like what's going on?
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: It became a faith, it became dogma, and if you
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: question the dogma, you were a heretic. You were kicked
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: out of the religion. It's it's uh. It was a
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: scary time. It still is scary, you know. We deal
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: the actors going my nonprofit in Los Angeles. We have
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: education programs and we've been dealing with the ramifications of
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: that lockdown for the last five years. You know, the
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: kids that are you know, had two years robbed of
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: them from socialization.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: And education and that was your senior year of high school.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, you know. Fuck, we're dealing with the
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: after effects of that, and gratefully the kind of work
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: we do brings them out again and you know, get
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: some expressing emotions, making eye contact, having experiences with other children,
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: and that are productive and you know, the goodness is
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: you can get out of that funk. But it was
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: really scary to see those kids walk in to classes
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: after that lockdown because they wouldn't make eye contact, looking
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: at the floor. You know, it's kind of desocialized and
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: trauma traumatized, and you know, it was really scary.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: Critical development time, absolutely, yeah. And all of a sudden,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: they're wearing like imagine being a toddler. And also everyone
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: has a mask on.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: It's weird.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: You don't want to wear the mask. They keep trying
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: to take it off and people yell at them put
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: it back on. So it's like terror and anxiety and confusion. Also,
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: you're not reading people's faces, which is like an important
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: part of the developmental process. You get to know people.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: You read faces. You see how people talk. All a sudden,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: everyone's wearing a mask, everyone's robbing a bank, like this
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: is crazy.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, I've tried to approach
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: it all with just openness and a compassion for people
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: that went through that. You know, I don't attach blame.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: I don't you know, everyone there was a pretty sophisticated
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: propaganda machine that was happening, and I have great compassion
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: for people that fell into that, and I you know,
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: I just want us to not do it again, you know,
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: I wanted us to have the knowledge and the consciousness
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: to not fall for that again.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, hopefully. It's just it was very eye opening. That
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: was so easy to pull off, you know, that was
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: so easy to get people to just gang up like that.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: It was just it said it was It said a
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: lot about us, unfortunately, and you know, uh, I hold
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: faith in humanity, but that was that was a that
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: was a tough one.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: I do as well, And I think it was a
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: learning moment for a lot of people, whether they admit
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: to it or not. Whether they're public about it or not,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: because I know a lot of people that just weren't
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: public about their descent, but they really didn't like any
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: of it, and they just didn't really have a position
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: to talk about it. And you know, they wanted to
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: keep their job and wanted to keep their place in
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: the community or whatever it was that they were trying
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: to protect, and they kept their mouth shut. But you'd
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: get a couple of drinks in them when they were alone,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: they would tell you.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: Well, that begs a larger question, is you know, is
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: it freedom of speech if when you freely speak, your
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: job is threatened, your future is threatened. Is that are
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: we living in a free society? You know, right, it's
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: and that's still that's not just COVID's. That's a lot
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: of things that.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: It's a lot of things. Yeah, it's almost everything. And
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: it's one of the most important things that we do
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: is we disagree, We talk, You have conversations.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: And and you.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: Get exposed to inform that maybe you didn't know before
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: you establish this opinion that you're arguing.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: Do you know what was the big tragedy in my
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: opinion during that time period is that we totally lost
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: the water cooler conversation, that accidental conversation that happens at
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: work with a coworker who you don't necessarily agree with,
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: but it's a human being expressing something to you in person,
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: and you have to deal with that person and their
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: opposing viewpoint. We got into our own silos of thought
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: and algorithms of thought, and everything we experienced during that
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: period of time was an affirmation of what we believed
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: rather than a challenge to it. And so the water
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: cooler was completely eliminated. The idea that the accidental conversation
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: at a bar where you're watching a game on the
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: television and someone says next to you that is not
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: necessarily of your belief system, but you buy them a
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: beer and you watch the game together. You know, all
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: these moments of meeting up that were eliminated. And you know,
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: it's what I love about sports. I love that you
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: can go watch a game and not think about politics, right,
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: think about your differences, and think about the team that
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: you like and support them together. Same thing with theater
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: or any kind of gathering of individuals music. What I
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: love about the theater that we do is that we're
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: able to take people to a common emotion, and we
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: never want to have a completely I don't. We don't
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: want audiences that think the same, right, You want a
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: disparate amount of people different beliefs that you can get
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: them to share a common emotion and get them to
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: laugh together, get them to feel something and cry together.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: That is that's the community you're able to build when
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: you're doing a show. As you know, you know, what
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: really pissed me off was that when we're we have
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: a theater in Los Angeles Center, it was two years
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: we had to be closed, and a year and a
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: half in we were told we could open, but we'd
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: have to check vaccine passports at the door. And I
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: talked to some people at the theater and we agreed
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: it was no, we can't do that, because what that
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: is doing is it's basically saying the only people allowed
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: in our theater are people that agree with what the
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: government wanted, and that, for me, is not a theater.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: That betrays the whole purpose and function of what a
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: theater should be is a gathering place for the community
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: that might think differently to bring them together. And this
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: was saying basically, if you agree, you can come in,
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: and so we waited another six months before we opened
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: the theater until everyone could come in.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a time where you had to have
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: a vaccine passport in order to perform, and there was
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: an exemption in New York, and you had to have
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: a vaccine passport if you wanted to go to a show,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: but you didn't have to have one if you were performing.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: And I did Madison Square Garden, so the whole audience
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: had to have vaccine passports, but I didn't. And so
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: there was a senator I forget who it was that
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: was proposing a new law based on me sleeping, sneaking
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: through the loophole, that performers should have to be vaccinated
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: as well, and he was upset that I didn't have
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: that I wasn't vaccinated and that I was performing.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: You could have infected the entire Madison Square.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: I could have been a super spreader. Yeah.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: But well, you know in London, because they spend a
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: lot of time over there the last five years, but
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: they they're West End rebounded immediately unlike Broadway. And the
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: reason it did is because during that time period you
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: could show a vaccine passport, but you could also show
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: a negative test. So they didn't demand that you have
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: a vaccine, so they didn't lose their audience. Their audience
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: came right back, and in Broadway they basically told a
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: third of their audience you're not welcome, And so I
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: can see why it might have been a struggle to
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: get those people back into the theater.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: It was crazy. It didn't make any sense. Like, if
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: the people are negative, they're negative. What do you give
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: a shit if they're vaccinated? Also, what about people that
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: got COVID and then recovered from it, who have far
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: superior immunity seven x superior immunity to people who were vaccinated,
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: Like what are we doing here? Like this is are
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: you're doing? The pharmaceutical drug companies work for them, and
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: you're making people follow along in lockstep, and it's just nuts.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: It just didn't even make sense that people are going
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: along with this.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm glad that's in the rear view mirror.
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah for now.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: But you know, I feel like it's a case study
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: and a lot of I mean, if there are people
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: that are manipulating society, and I think there are, there's
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: a lot of lessons that they learned from how we
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: behave and you know, relatively speaking, without making light of
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: the pandemic, relatively speaking, a fairly mild pandemic in terms
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: of like you know, the bubonic plague and all sorts
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: of other things that have happened throughout history, the Spanish
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: flu have killed way more people, like it could have
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: been way worse, right, So just one that was just
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: twice as bad as the flu got people to behave
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well the good news is though the uptake
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: wasn't you know, a lot of people took it because
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: they had to. It wasn't like enthusiastically taking it. We
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: did a play called topsy Turvy, which was about lockdown,
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: and we performed that in Eastern Europe, and it was
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: really interesting to see their response there, because I would
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: One of them said afterwards, you know, I asked, you know,
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: what was the uptake on the vaccines in Romania and
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: they said something like forty percent. I said, well, how
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: do you explain that? And they said, well, you know,
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: we lived under the Soviet Union for many years, so
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: we know how to look like we comply when we're
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: not complying. And I said, what else reminds you of
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: the Soviet Union? They said, without a doubt Cancel Culture.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: I said why, I said, well, Soviet Union used to
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: keep files on all of us, right, so as long
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: as you're a good party member, that wouldn't be a
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: thing said. But once you stepped out of line, they
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: brought out that old file. Now that affair with your
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: secretary from thirty years ago. It's going to ruin your life.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: They're going to ruin your family, they're going to kill
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: your career, and they're going to make a big public
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: display of it to show other people to stay in line.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: And they felt like Cancel Culture was basically operating in
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: the same way as the Soviet Union did. And it
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: was really interesting to see that perspective in Eastern Europe,
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: people that have, you know, lived under that kind of
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: oppressive situation and their perspective on modern day.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: That must have really made you think about what happened
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: to you during the Iraq War.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, Yeah, that in.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Particular because back then there's no real social media, there's
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: no real way to get your message out.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Oh man, they lied, they made up, they made up things,
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: They made up. This I was. I was doing this
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: play embedded at the time at the public theater and
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: we'd go out afterwards, and The New York Post wrote
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: that I was making out with a woman under a
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: palm tree at this club, and I it was it
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: was just they just made it up and got me in.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: You know. It didn't really help my marriage at the time.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: And you know, they just lie. They basically lie. You know,
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: they'll attack you.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: They just decided you were an enemy and they were
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: going to pull out whatever stops.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: They're going to discredit you and whatever way they can wild. Yeah,
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: that's a powerful thing when it hits you and you realize,
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: oh my god, the truth doesn't matter.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, that's what's so scary about it is that
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: in this country, where a freedom of speech is supposed
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: to be one of the cornerstones of our society, it's
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: one of the most important things we all recognize that
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: separates us from everywhere else in history, Like this is
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: the first country where really it's written into the doctrine
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: of the country, you're supposed to have the freedom, the
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: ability to express yourself, and that this is being attacked
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: and suppressed in all sorts of different ways, not just
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: stopping your ability to express yourself, but attacking you in
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: a concerted effort and all lying about you, just lying
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: about you in order to scare other people. It's very
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: Werewellian and it's very Unamerican. And the fact that like
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: the New York Post would do that, or whoever it was,
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: when the New York Post would do that, like what
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: the fuck? Man?
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: Well, the goodness is there's no gulags. Yeah, you know,
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: they don't arrest you in the middle of the night
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: and right force you to into some kind of prison,
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: you know, thousands of miles away.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: Sure it could be worse, yeah, but it's not. It's
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: not along the line of the American way of life,
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: you know. And if you're if you're a person who
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: really does appreciate what this experience in this this experiment
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: in self government which was the United States, it's it's
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: supposed to have free discourse. That's a big part of it.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: And the founding fathers recognize that you've got to have
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: the ability to talk about things, right, and if you don't,
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: we're fucked. Because if someone can tell you what you
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: can and can't say, that's step one, and then everything
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: else falls in line after that. And next thing, you know,
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: you've got a dictatorship.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: Right, And and there's people that have you know, lost
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: opportunities or you know in show business that recently that
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: including my ex Susan Sarandon, who you know, was against
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: what was happening in Israel and lost her agent, and
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: you know, it's having a hard time finding work. This
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: is crazy, This is nuts.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and especially someone like Susan Sarandon, like one of
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: the most respected and established actors of many generations, like
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: she's been around forever. The fact that a take on
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: something that if you're just looking at it, like what
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: is what? What are you?
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: How could you defend that? Like? How could anybody defend that?
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: But even know how many people are dead, you have
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: a complete wipeout of a city, like ninety percent of
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: Gaza is gone or whatever the percentage is. You look
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: at the buildings, you look at what it used to
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: look like, You look at it looks like now like
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: this is defensible.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And then and I think the point of
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: it is to make a show of it and to say, see,
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: we could do that to her, so we could do
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: it to you, So shut the fuck up.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, yeah, especially the timing of when you
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: do it right, if you are against Gaza, now it's
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: safer than being against what happened a year and a
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: half ago, say, you know, especially close to October seventh.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: If you're one of the early like Roger Waters, one
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: of the early people talking about this, is you're watching
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: genocide in real time and they came for that guy. Yeah,
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: and you know, more people see it the way he
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: sees it now, And just like what happened to you
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: with the Iraq War, you're twenty years from now, it's
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: going to be a universally accepted opinion. I bet.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Well, it's just.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: It's crazy to go through something like that, and for
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: you to have gone through it, like really early on,
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: you know, for you to have gone through that in
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: two thousand and three, I guess it really does inform
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: your opinions though, Like when you see things that are
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: happening today, you go, Okay, I've seen this before.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: What I started looking for after that was a way
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: to be someone that was more involved with something that
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: could affect change. In other words, I used my nonprofit.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: We started a prison program twenty years ago, and we
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: see the change that happens. We have people that go
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: in and basically offer rehabilitation in the form of theater
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: and not doing plays or anything, but getting people to
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: play emotions through characters that we introduced to them, and
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: in doing so, unlocking emotions that have been suppressed for many,
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: many years. So in prison, there's one go to emotion.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: It's angry. That's your survival face, that's your mask on
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: the yard. You have to be a bad ass or
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: you're going to But sadness is compromising, fear is compromising,
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: and happiness is genuinely not encouraged either. So we get
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: these guys in a room, we get to introduce them
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: to these stock characters from Commititia de l'arte, and then
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: they have to express their emotions and make the choices
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: with their emotions in improv. And what they find is
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: that if someone approaches them in anger in an improv,
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: the facilitator will encourage a different emotion in response to
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: anger than anger, right, And what they come to understand
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: is that they don't have to respond to anger with anger.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: There other choices, and in fact, in real life they
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: can do that too if they can do it in
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: an improv. And so what happens is these people tap
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: into long dorm and emotions and start to understand that
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: they are more than the worst act that got them there.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: They tend to create bonds across gang ties, racial lines.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: We when we're putting together a group, we ask that
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: rival gangs are in the same room with each other,
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: oh wow. And what happens is these bonds are made
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: through the sharing of emotion. Like we get these guys
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: into an improv where they're all putting a flower on
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: a grave of someone and saying something under their breath
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: about the person that's deceased. And then at some point
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: the facilitator will say, now look at each other. And
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: they're looking at each other with these eyes of sadness,
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: and they realize they have a lot in common, you know,
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: in that shared emotion. I had two guys come up
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: to me, one black guy, one white guy. They said,
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: we've got to tell you what happened two weeks ago.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: We were our shot callers said, you know, we're going
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: to have a fight on the yard, and so, you know,
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: they never you never questioned the shot caller, and so
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: you know what it's going to happen, you know. And
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: so what they did was they found each other, these
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: two guys, and they rolled around on the floor acting
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: like they were killing each other.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: Wow, how convenient.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it looked like they were participating, but they
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: weren't hurting each other.
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: Oh wow, that was a good solution.
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: It's amazing what happens when you experience something that like
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: that in person, When you see the transformation happen, and
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: we see this in our school children as well, that's
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: something that is deeply inspiring. You know that you've had
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: something to do with some a real change, right, Whereas
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: for years I was asked to, you know, attend fundraisers
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: and you know, various causes, and you know, it's, yeah,
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: it's great that they're doing that, and it's great that
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: they're raising money for these organizations that need it, but
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day, you don't really feel
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: like it did anything other than go to a dinner.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: And this was a way to get my hands dirty
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: and really, you know, getting the struggle of it. And
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: I found it to be so so much more satisfying
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: as far as that whatever inclination I had towards activism
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: was really fed by this. As opposed to hopping from
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: fundraiser to fundraiser. M it just felt more real. It
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: felt like something that I could take that experience, and
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: then I could say to my group, let's expand, let's
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: get into more and more prisons, and now we're in
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: eighteen prisons in the state of California doing these programs.
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: Did you have to develop a curriculum like how you
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: begin to reach out to these guys and how you
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: set it up, like how you.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: It took a couple of years, you know, kind of
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: pilot program in one prison in Chino, in Norco in
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: southern California. Trial and error. You know, what, what's the
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: way to do it, what's way not to do it?
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: Of course, you go through a training with the prison
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: system of certain things to watch out for, and you know,
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: you develop these lines where you say, you know, we're
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: here to do this, not to talk about your case.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: You know, there's all kinds of things you learn how
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: to avoid the distractions that will derail the program. But
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: essentially it's a very physical way of working and it's
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: also there is a lot of fun in it. So
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: those two things together allow the entry for these guys
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: that are you know, they're in the room because they
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: want to be there, but it's weird stuff we're asking
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: them to do, right, and if they can have a
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: laugh about it, and then something about it shifts some
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: kind of consciousness inside them that that means something to people.
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: Got to remember these people are you know, when we started,
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: there was only one other program in the in the
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: state of California that was offering rehabilitation through any theater.
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: So there's a couple of music programs and to two
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: theater programs. And now we've were able to lobby the
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: state to get more funding for arts and corrections because arts,
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: art is a transformer ar you know, it is something
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: that can shift consciousness. I truly believe that I've seen
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: it with my own the work that I've done. You know,
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: I've seen how people can think in a different way
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: after they see something in the theater, movies, or you know,
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: a good good stand up and do the same thing.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: You know how George Carlin used to shift my consciousness
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: every new special because he would always be challenging me.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: Sure it wouldn't be like, hey, hey, you know, we're
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: all in the same club. It would be yeah, you
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: thought we were in the same club. But here's a
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: here's a little thought, and you realize he's talking right
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: at one of your hypocrisies and that was his genius.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: It was this ability to really tap into we can
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: be better. We can all be better.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Visible. It's officially Summer, folks,
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: and boy, what a summer we are having. It feels
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  Speaker 1: your first month when you use promo code Rogan. Terms
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: of apply see Visible dot com for planned features and
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: network management details. Yeah, there's been a few guys like
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: that throughout history that really figured out a way to
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: embed humor into social commentary. George Carlin's probably the most
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: known for it, But do you know about Bill Hicks.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: So he was probably in my generation. He was the
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: one that twisted people the most. It took like a
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: lot of comics would watch him and go, I what
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: am I doing? Why am I doing? What I'm doing?
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: This guy's doing something that's like so much more meaningful.
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, who was it? In Appatoo's documentary about Harlan there
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: was a comedian that said, George Carlin was basically in
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: the earliest part of the century in nineteen hundreds, philosophers
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: debating used to be a huge deal, right, Like hundreds
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: of people, thousands of people come watch people debate to
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: different points of view. Sure, he said, that's that's what
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: the current philosophers of our generation of the better stand
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: up comedians, the ones that test your belief system by
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: saying something that you know might be controversial or you know,
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: challenges your worldview. That's the great purpose and function of
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: a philosopher or a stand up comedian is to take
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: your worldview, shatter it a little bit, and make you
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: rethink yeah.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And Hicks was sort of for our generation. He
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: was like the first guy that really did that in
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: a way that like some of the things that he said,
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: weren't even designed to be funny at all. It was
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: just designed to make you think about things differently, and
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: then he would hit you with some funny things after
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: that to keep you occupied.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, provocative statements that you know, the first reaction
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: is fuck that, No that's not true, fuck that, And
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: then you realize, oh shit, he's bringing me there. And
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: it's like a great play can do that too, a
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: great movie can do that too. You provoke you and
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: challenge you and then make you refocus, rethink.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just amazing how little of that we have
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: today and how much content we have today.
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: Do you did you ever see the documentary?
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: God, what is it? The documentary with William F. Buckley
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: and the other Yeah, you know what I'm talking about, Goarvidal. Yeah,
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: where they had these it was I guess it was NBC.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: I think it was, and NBC was failing in the
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: ratings sys Enemies, but that's the Yeah, the line Enemies
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: best event, great documentary. So they had a series of
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: these debates on television, Gorvidal being a progressive and William F.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: Buckley being a conservative. It's very interesting because this kind
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: of hadn't happened before on television where you have these
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: long form discussions with these two guys just intellectually jabbing
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: at each other, and it was great. It's like, the
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: documentary is really amazing.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: I was friends with Gore. Oh really, yeah. He agreed
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: to do my first film, Bob Roberts, which is about
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: a right wing folks singing candidate for Senate in Pennsylvania,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: and Gore agreed to play Brickley Pacede, my Democratic opponent,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: right and so he played a politician, which is something
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: he always kind of flirted with in his real life,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: and so I got to be quite friendly with him.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: And I actually did a documentary that I'm editing right
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: now about four soldiers from World War Two that became
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: great writers. Gore, Kurt Vonnegut, Norman Mayler, and Howard Zinn
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: are all in this documentary. I filmed it many years ago,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: shelved it, and now I'm in the final stage of
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: putting it together. I'm opening a new website on September first,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: and this is one of the many things that I
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: have in my vault and my storage units that I've
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: just been getting out over the past year and finding
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: all this crazy stuff that I have that I'd never
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: finished because I've been going from project to project to projects.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: So slowed down a little bit and just opened up
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: some sealed boxes and it's been really fun. It's one
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: of the things is also I used to fuck around
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: on film sets with this, you know, when I had
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: enough money to buy a video camera for the first time,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: and so I started making these little short films on
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: movie sets. And one of them is there's two films
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: from when I was doing Howard the Duck and you know,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: one of those endless productions that just went on and
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: on and on. So I just started amusing myself by
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: making my own little short films, including you know, I'm
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: sure illegally using the Duck itself, you know which I
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: made a character in one of the films.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: I forgot about Howard the Duck.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: It was crazy. We walked on the set though. Weird,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: I know, right, we walked on the set. I walked
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: on the set the first day. I knew we were
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: in trouble. Did you know the poppet It wasn't ready
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: and it was a little too cute. If you look
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: at the comic book, Howard the Duck was not that cute.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: No, he was a cigar smoking.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of shitty mean, yeah, kind of Fritz the cattish, like,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: you know, like really kind of borderline up scene.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: And it was a Marvel comic, right yeah yeah.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: And so do you have an image of the old
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: Howard the Duck from the comic? Yeah? That guy.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: So I walked on the set and I saw that
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: cute duck. I was like, uh oh, yeah.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: He was always with chicks, which was very weird, Like, hey, lady,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: what are you doing?
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: You're fucking a duck's going on here? Like what is this?
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 3: What is his charm got you?
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 3: Is what's the message there?
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so strange character.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: Very strange, and I don't think they had the technology
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: to pull it off.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: I remember, I need to try again.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: Now that would be good. I could take the old
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: film and animate it. But you know, I spent six
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: weeks on that film doing an ultra light chase that
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: lasted maybe two minutes in the film.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: What's an ultra.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: Ultra light planes? Basically it's you and the wings and
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: a motor and so there's a chase sequence at the
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: end that's about two and a half minute, three minutes long.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: Did you actually have to get in one of those things.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: No, I mean I got in like a fake one good, yeah,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: because no, you have to be you have to fly
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: it the guy. Yeah, you have to that's fake of course, right.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: The Duck's real.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: Looks so legit.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but was that one of.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: Those ones where your your little voys. He didn't listen.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: No, not at all, because that was early in my career, right.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: So it was George Lucas, I remember, and he juste Lucas. Yeah,
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: and he just done Star Wars. Whoa, So it was
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: it had to be good, right.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: He went from Star Wars to Howard the Duck.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: Well, he produced Howard Duck, but he had just produced
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: Star Wars, so you know, it was like hell, yeah, right,
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: it doesn't make sense on the page, but he'll fire.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: He'll figure it out. They'll figure it out. I was
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: so lucky too, again, blessed because I got a movie
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: called Five Corners that was with Jodie Foster and John
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: Detrurou right around the same time. So I was I
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: had already done that movie when Howard came out, so
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: it's kind of saved my.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: Nice as you already had one in the chamber.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he had a good one on the pipe.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank god.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: I just I wonder why George did it, Like it
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: seemed so odd to try to do a movie with
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: a talking duck.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well maybe it made sense when they imagined it.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: Maybe they were on an acid or something.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: It's like it seems I just remember those poor puppeteers. Man,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: they were trying to make this thing work, and just
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: I don't think the technology really existed or it.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: Was like eighty six or something.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was they were they were trying so hard,
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: and it just was it was you know, I felt
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: for everybody, including the director. I felt he tried his
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: damn best, you know, and it was just betrayal by puppeteering.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't the puppeteers, it was the actual machinery.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: Well, it's kind of if you think about Star Wars
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: in particular, it's kind of amazing they were able to
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: pull that off with the technology that was available at
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: the time to have this crazy movie where you like
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: the Cantina scene, and yeah, you go on, there's all
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: these different fucking creatures from different planets, and like, they
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: did not have very good technology back then. Like if
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: you watch that Cantina scene. Now, WHOA looks terrible, right,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: it's so clunky, like the masks don't move their face stuck.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: It's almost like, you know, looking at Claymation around that time.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah, yeah, amazing what they can do. But
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: I do like the old school. I do like the
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: kind of analogue version of it because when with the
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: CGI and everything, it's all so sophisticated and yeah, they
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: can do anything now, and you almost want them not
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: to be able to do everything, you know, Yeah, just
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: want a little little roughness around the edges. It really helps.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: Well, there's also a thing about CGI where the part
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: of your brain that is looking at it recognizes that
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: this is not a real thing happening.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: Like as good as it looks, there's.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: Something about it, which is why a lot of the
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: movie special effects guys like the monster guys like Rick
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: Baker and along those lines, we did Star Wars America
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: werelt in London that thing outside the wolf do you
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: see in the hallway that they wanted to make sure
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: that it looked like a real thing. Right, it was
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: a physical object, so you had a physically so in
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: order to make it a physical object, and obviously CG
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: I wasn't even available back then, but you see it
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: and you know it's a real thing. Whereas like later
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: on he did they did The Wolfman and Rick Baker
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: did that as well, and there's a lot of CGI
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: in there and the transformation scenes and this part of
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: it is just like your brain's like, this isn't really happening.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't like yeah. Yeah. It's kind of the
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: same way in music too, like when they correct everything
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: and make the auto tuney you great music has a
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: little bit of mistake in it, you know, it has
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: a little bit of like human error when you're hitting
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: a chord on a guitar. There's you know, there's a
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: way to play it perfectly, but there's also a way
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: to play it a little messed up, and I kind
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: of prefer the little bit messed up.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: Like when Hendrix did the Star Spangled Banner at Woodstock. Yea,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: you know, there was something about it. It was like, yeah, it.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: Was immediate, it was at it was being done at
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: that moment with full danger, you know, which is a
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: great thing to listen to.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really happening. It's not polished and edited and
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: set through a machine.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: And you get the feeling that maybe that was the
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: second or third time he played it. Ever, well maybe
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: the first, right, which would have been even more insane.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: But you know, yeah, well that's.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: Why people like records. Well, they love listening to the
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: scratches and the pops, and then you hear the voice
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: like this, just pure recorded voice. There's no auto tune,
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: there's no nothing messing with it, especially like an old record.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: I have one of those seventy eight's where you have
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: to crank them up, oh wow, and they have the
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: little you know cone that oh ampletized oh right, oh wow,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: nineteen twenty or nineteen ten or something like that. And
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: I just imagine, you know, living on the prairie and
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: ordering this from Sears Roebuck right and getting your first
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: you know record, and putting it on and hearing this
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: a voice coming from this ascetate. It must have been magical.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: It must have been like, you know, transformative to you know,
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: amplified song that you can dance to or fall in
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: love to right in your living room.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: When did they first figure that out?
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: I think it was early part of the twentieth century.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: Thomas Edison. Yeah, they had like a this little cylinder, but.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: When they started mass producing them in this records.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, when was the first?
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: I think in the twenties.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: They might have mass produced those because people had them
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: just a way different player. Let's ask perplexity, what was
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: the first record? What was the first actual like record
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: disc that you could play with a needle, like a
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: real record. I want to say like nineteen nineteen. I'm
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: just taking a wild guess because there's a famous viral
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: video of a guy drop on that time. I sat
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: us In nineteen thirty one, twelve inch thirty three and
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: a third RPM disc was pressed in Victor's vinyl based
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: Victor LAC.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: But that it's thirty three and a third What about
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: the seventy eighths? Or is it called say a seventy eight?
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: So yeah, twenty three minutes verse roughly forty eight vinyl
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: LP arrived in June twenty first, nineteen forty eight, Columbia
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: Records unveiled, Oh, thirty three and a third micro Groove
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: Long Playing Records. So was that it?
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: But in the twenties and thirties there was a micro Groove.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: Forty seven at the forty five.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, so the thirty one first first vinyl disc Wow.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: So thirty one for the first vinyl disc, forty eight
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: for the first real album, which is really nuts because
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: if you think about like all the amazing albums of
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: the sixties, you're talking about a technology that didn't exist
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: twenty years prize. That's weird, nuts nuts, right, So, like
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: when you're listening to Voodoo Child, like that technology twenty
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: years ago didn't exist.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: Do you remember the magic of watching it for the
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: first time, Like when you put that thing down when
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: you're a kid and you put it on the thing,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: this music starts coming out.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well I remember the ones where they look
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: at that look at the vinyl grooves around a thousand
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: x magnification, you see the waveforms of the music itself.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: That's crazy, incredible that those little weird Imagine if you
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: were like from another civilization and you saw these things,
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: you'd be like, what the fuck is this? Like, what
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: do they have here?
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: How did they figure that out?
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: All?
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: What is this? You'd be like, what that's they figured
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: out how to make music out of that? And you
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: could hear a harp, you could hear banjo, you can
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: hear drums orchestra. Yeah, you can hear jazz Joplin all
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: in that, Yeah, how'd you do that? Like what? And
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: if it scratches its skips.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: I'm really encouraged that Vinyl's making a comeback. I really
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: very excited about that.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 3: People love it.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's all the difference.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: Like people love like wood tables, you know, people like
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: the world gets more digital, people want things that are organic,
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: something that a person may something that seems like it
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: makes more sense.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: I've been finding, you know, in my search for my
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: archive and everything, cassette tapes that I put on. They
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: sound amazing, really yeah, they sound really good because you know,
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: there's more there's more information and a little cassette tape
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: than on you know, whether it's MP three that's been compressed,
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: you know and compressed and compressed and compressed. But you know,
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: I really reels are obviously sounds still great, but the
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: cassette tapes really survived. I've been digitizing everything, of course,
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: you know, just just to make sure that they don't decay.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: But it's been really interesting that a lot of my
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: dad's music he recorded on cassette tapes. You know, he
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: was a folk singer and they did five albums as
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: the Highwayman and you know. But he he was a
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: classical musician and did choral music, and so he had
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: a group that he would record on these cassette tapes,
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: and so we've been digitizing those because we're I'm going
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: to put them all on my new website thing called
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: Robin's Radio, which will be my dad, my granddad, my brother,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: and myself the music that we've done over the years,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: kind of playing on a constant loop when you come
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: onto the website. Oh wow, Yeah, so I wou was
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: to honor my dad. I've been digitizing also his scores,
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: and you know, he wrote music by hand, and so
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: I've got boxes and boxes of that that I've trying
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: to transcribe and make available. Probably in about six months
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: we'll have that archive up.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, when did they figure out how
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: to put things on cassette? Daves, does that that happen?
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: That was around when I was in high school. I
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: remember I had a cassette deck on car.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and there was pretty good technology. You could buy
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: a really good microphones and plug them into a pretty
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: good cassette player.
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: Well eight track was the first, right, I think so.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: But those were so impractical, Well, they were huge, Yeah,
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: plus they'd stop in the middle of a song and
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: then go to the next track and really yeah. I
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: remember driving with my friend Frank, who lives in Austin
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: right now, and we were driving back up to school,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: my first school, College Plattsburgh, and there was an eight
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: track of Bread play you remember that band Bread, And
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: this was around nineteen seventy seven, and he rips it
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: out of the eight track, rolls down the window, throws
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: it out of this is We're never listening to that again.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: This is It's punk rock from this point forward. And
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: it was it was like a defining moment in my
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: musical life. Was like Frank saying, no more Bread.
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: No more Bread, is gonna put sex pistols Now, that's hilarious.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: I remember my first introduction to eight track my friend
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: Javier when I lived in Florida. His mom had an
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: eight track player and she had what is that song?
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: Who sings it? When my baby? When my baby smiles
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: of me? I go to Rio deja Naho? Remember that's all.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: I don't remember who sings it? Uh, Pablo Cruise? Oh yeah, okay, yeah,
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: And she had a Pablo Cruise eight track in her car.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: I'm like this lady is a wizard. She's got her
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: own music because before then, I think I had only
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: seen people play stuff that was on the radio. Right,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: and she put it in there and she pressed the button,
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: and I was like, this is crazy. She gets to
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: pick what songs are on the radio in a car.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: I thought it was the wildest thing I'd ever seen
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: in my life.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was right. It was eight track first, then
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: the cassette, and then the.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: Cassette was so much better. Then you had to flip
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: it over though, pop it.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: Out cooked in the sun though.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 3: I mean, oh yeah, I lost a bunch.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: I used to have one of them big books cassettes
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: in it and these little vinyl things you leave it
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: in your car and they get fucked and then it
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: gets stuck in the in the tape machine that you
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: had to do it with your finger to try to
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: wind it back with your finger.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: Which I did like a month ago with one of
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: the old descents. I just I just did that last month,
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: trying to respoil it.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, nobody knows what the fuck we're talking about today.
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: Well, then you know, VHS tapes was the next one,
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: because that was the first time where you could choose
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: to watch a film at home.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, you know, yes, and a huge deal too. You know,
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: I'm more in the loss of video stores.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because it's a great experience.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, because you could go and you say, you know,
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: I just saw this film and there was someone that
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: really loved film there, right, and he could say, well,
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: if you like that one, check this one out.
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: That was that's now been replaced by an algorithm. And
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: I'm not trusting that algorithm is going to find it's
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: you know, it's going to show me the way to
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: Battle of Algiers or any kind of These are great movies.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: I just if the personal was lost. Same thing with
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: record stores. You could go in and like's what's new
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: and hear what's playing and you know, talk to the
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: guy and get what his opinion was. And bookstores too.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: You know, it's like if you told me thirty years
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: ago that would be you know, it's very hard to
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: find a bookstore, a record store, or a video store.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: I would say, you're crazy. Right now, it's all like
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: very convenient. You have access to everything, but you don't
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: have the arbiture that is a person. You have the
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: arbitrar that's almost a machine, right.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: You get a little bit of that with people online
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: recommending stuff. Yeah, just kind of cool. You know, someone says, hey,
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: I just saw the show. It's fucking incredible.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: You get a little bit of that, and then you
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: get IMDb and Rotten Tomato scores, which I think that
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: does something. You know, they're they're a little manipulated occasionally,
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: but there's something to it where you get to see
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: what people think about it. That helps.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's nice. I think Silo is like one hundred
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: percent rotten made, is it really? Yeah? Right now it is.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: That's nice.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 3: That's once you said that, though you put it out there.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: I know it's.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: I just killed it, vomited.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: We'll see about that.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: But there's there's almost too many shows, you know.
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 3: There's just too much. I just got into The Agency.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: I just finished season two of The Agency and Michael Fassbender.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 3: It's a c I.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: A series that's on Paramount.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 3: It's fucking incredible.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: It's so well written, it's so well acted that it
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: makes so many other shows seem really clunky, because it's
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: just it's so good. He's got so many layers to it,
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: and it's subtle and it's brilliant and it's and Fastpender
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: is one of my favorite actors. He's fucking incredible. He's
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: so good. He's so good in this. You know he
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: plays this c I A spook.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: So many things to choose from, too.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: Many Yeah, almost, yeah, I mean it's you could waste
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: your whole life just being in a pain. Like it
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: used to be difficult to be entertained, which I think
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: there's something to that. You had to go to a place,
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: you get to pay, buy your popcorn, and sit down.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: You got to make an active choice.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: Now it's just like yeah, steps along the way, they've
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: made it more convenient to be entertained. But then again,
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: it's like there's something lost in that, you know, like oh,
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: the movie starts at seven, Come on, we gotta get
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: out of here. We gotta go park, we gotta get there,
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: got to get there in time.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: There was a lot to it, or the idea that,
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: you know, if there's only three choices, you're gonna stump.
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: You might stumble into something you wouldn't have watched right
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: and be surprised.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: Oh all the time, you'd go what do they have
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: at the movie theater? Like what's this? All right? Well,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: there's no more Star Wars tickets left so we could
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: go see this.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 3: You want to see this?
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: What is it? I don't know? Yeah, this is this
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: guy's in it though I like him, Like, okay, let's
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: just take a take a cat. That's the crazy thing
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: about shawsh Ink is that it wasn't a big hit
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: in the movie theater initially, No, which is really hard
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: to believe now.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it was. Uh it was. It was nominated
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: for seven Academy Awards, but nobody want to see it.
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: That's nuts.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe it was a title they didn't understand, or
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know what it was. I was in two
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: films that year, one Hutsucker Proxy and Shawshank Redemption, two
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: really challenging titles, but like, what's it about Hutsucker? I
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: don't know what's it about? I had people coming up
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: to me and saying, I really liked you in that
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: Scrimshaw Reduction. Yeah, thank you.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: They don't plan on meeting you and they run into
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: you at a restaurant. That movie.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: Shim Shank, Shim Shank, Sah, what did.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: It come out against? What other films were out at
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: the same time as Shashank?
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 3: Was there other like big movies?
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 5: Oh, Wow, Jurassic Park, Oh my god.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: Breath one of the best years for movies in history.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah, pulp fiction, Oh my god.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: But you know it. It It made its way, interestingly enough,
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: because so Ted Turner was running Warner Brothers at the time, right,
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: and Warner Brothers produced Shawshank Redemption, And when he sold
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: the rights to it for television, he sold it to
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: himself at the lowest cost possible. So basically you had
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: a film nominated for seven Academy Awards. It was getting
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: sold like it was a beach blanket bullshit.
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: Right, And.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: So it didn't cost him anything to put it on
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 2: his channel. So he put it on again and again
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: and again. Was getting all those advertising dollars that come
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: with playing something on his TV channel. And I think
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: that's why it caught on, because it was ubiquitous, it
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: was always there, it was always something you could see,
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: and so eventually people understood what kind of movie it was.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: And so that's a good example of where someone's business
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: acumen or greed or whatever you want to call it
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: while winds up producing something quite lovely, you know, something
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: that actually I'm really grateful for because so many people
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: know that film and it's been like number one on
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: IMDb for the last fifteen years.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: Isn't that crazy?
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: And that was one of those movies that also took
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: off like Wildfire once it got into video, because once
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: people could watch it at home. Yeah, that was even
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: though if it didn't do as well in the theaters
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: as it should have on video, it did fantastic.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is why I really I always remember that
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: when you know, I'm in a movie and it doesn't
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: quote unquote perform, you know, I I'm the I'm the turtle.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: I know the turtle can win the race.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's that was something that was lost also during
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: the pandemic, and I was really worried about that that
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: it wasn't going to come back. It seemed like it
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: was so easy a stream films at home that people
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: just for a while, it was hard to get.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 3: People to go out to movie theaters.
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 3: Experience is very different, it's very different.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been a struggle, you know. And you know,
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: I think also a lot of producers in Hollywood or
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: studios lost faith in their adult audience even before the pandemic.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, they were producing movies for teenagers, and you know,
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: there's nothing wrong with that, but because they can be
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: they can drive an economic end. But at the same time,
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: you know, films like Shawshank Redemption would not get made
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: today because they're about something that isn't about the whole huge,
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: multi platform experience of action movie, and that's unfortunate. And
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: that's kind of migrated into streamers. You know, the people,
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: the adults that like to watch stuff tend to watch
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: these longer form things. And that's a nice thing in
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: a way because it's allowing filmmakers to make ten hour films.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: You know, when you think about it, a season of
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: a show is ten hours, and so you can think
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: in this like kind of long form of telling a story,
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: which is a nice thing, which would have been impossible
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: in old Hollywood, you know, got to keep it under
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: two hours. So now you have the opportunity. Creators have
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: the opportunity to create long form entertainment.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: That I think is one of the beautiful things about
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: some of these Netflix series is that you like things
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: like stranger things essentially, have you know, a thirty hour
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: movie or however many episodes it is, And like Ozark
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: is a great example of that.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 3: It's like fucking amazing show.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: And it's essentially like a movie every week and the
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: story continues to progress and you get a chance to
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: really stretch something out, but you get the quality of
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: like a great film, but you get it extended. You know,
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: these huge budgets. The fact that they're able to do
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: this like so because of streaming. It has opened up
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: this long form aspect of storytelling that I think is
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: really difficult to do in a movie like kill Bill
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: kind of did it a little bit.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: You have two episodes of it was nice also as
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: an actor, like with Silo I've got I've had three seasons.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: The first two seasons my character represented something which completely
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: shifts in season three.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: Spoiler alert.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: No, I'm not telling you what it is. I'm just
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: telling you that I'm gonna be looking for that. You
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: won't you won't even be able to guess.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, good.
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 2: It's it's such a profound uh it's and it was
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: fun to play. It was like this kind of like
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: and I was told about this at the beginning. The
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: creator said, you know, listen, wait till.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: Season That's interesting because I always wonder how far they
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: map these things out.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 3: You know did he ever?
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: Did they even know that they were going to be
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: picked up for season three when he started?
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: No, but they knew at the end of season one
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: what the trajectory of two and three was.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 3: So if they got picked up, well, if.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: They were going to get picked up, they would have
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 2: to tell you what they would have to tell the
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: studio what two and three are. Right. So the other
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: thing that you have to consider is that if you're
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: an asshole, they'll fucking kill you. It's true.
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: Writers, don't you know.
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: Writers don't you know if an actor is like trouble,
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: they'll kill them. They will. I've heard it. I've been
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: told about. You know, one of the one of the
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: guys I worked with was I won't say his name,
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: but you know, when I was directing for television, I
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: did a couple episodes on this show, and he told
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: me about a show that he was doing where there
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 2: were three actors that were given him a real hard
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: time and one of them was getting in trouble because
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: of you know, sexual inappropriateness. The one was getting in
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: trouble because of you know, there were too much in
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: their head, and the other was you know something else,
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: you know, something about another. Basically they shot them all
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: in the anatomy that was associated with what their problem was,
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: So all three of them were shot in the finale.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: He said, well, we allowed a couple of them to survive,
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: but one week really killed off. So you know, you
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 2: don't mess with the writers. They're in television. They wield
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 2: a lot of power, and.
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: Not only that, they're also looking for angles, different places
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: to take the character. And if you're a douchebag, you're.
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: Like, yes, yeah, that'll be a good show.
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: Let's turn them into a pedophile and then kill him.
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: You can do whatever you want. Here's the twist. Yeah
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: you didn't see this coming.
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, watch out. Yeah be nice.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, there's a lot of fear in Hollywood
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: when it comes to AI and replacing writers and replacing
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: actors and just replacing this whole human created thing of storytelling.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: And I think writers in particular are really terrified because
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: you could kind of, you know, with with AI engines today,
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: you could kind of take a few films, right, like
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: you could kind of take like a bullet and Heat
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: and a few and they say make me John Wick
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: meets bullet meets Heat, and this is the protagonist this
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: is this is what he's facing. These are the issues,
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: and AI can churn it out in a few minutes,
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: and then you could say, I make it more like
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: Quentin Tarantino would do it, and then it'll do that.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: It'll fix it in that way, and you say, Okay,
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: I want it more like cubric aspects to it. I
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: want some weirdness to it, some some real thoughts, some
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: easter eggs, some hidden aspects to it that people connect later.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 3: And he'll do that.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: It'll it can do stuff instantaneously based on and it's
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: kind of stealing, right, but it's not right. It's making
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: an original thing, but it's not because it's inspired by
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: everything else that's already been made. But that's kind of
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: what people do, but not in the same way. And
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: we don't do it that quick either, And so for
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: a writer, is it's fucking terrifying.
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and who do you sue? I mean, you can't sue.
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 3: All artists are having a real problem with that.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: I have a real problem with it. Yeah, I don't.
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: I don't like it at all, But I also have
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: faith in the individuality of the human experience, and uh,
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 2: what I what you like? I'm writing a a companion
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: piece to the player right now. Uh, and you know
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: what would happen if that character was alive today? And
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 2: so I have my perspective that only I'm going to
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 2: bring to that. I don't think you could plug that
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 2: into it. So I think talented people will figure out
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: a way to be individual and apart from AI. And
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: but I also really I don't like the the lack
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: of protection that the guilds and the unions are offering
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: their membership. You know, there there there should have been
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: a hard line for the actors Union, and there wasn't.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: The hard line should have been you know, you cannot
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: use this to replace actors, right writers, but there was
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: compromise and or writers for the Writers' Union. I don't
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: think that that protection was held up the last negotiations,
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: and I think that we're going to see the ratifications
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: of that, you know.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Well, that's what's scary is that ultimately economics has
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: a major impact on the decisions that they make, and
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: it's way cheaper to do it that way. It's way
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: cheaper to use AI to write things than screenwriters, especially
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: really talented screenwriters. Even though it's kind of drawing on
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: the past creative work of really talented screenwriters.
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 3: Right then, don't get compensated for it.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: I think ultimately people are going to want and appreciate
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: something that's made by a human being because it's one
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: of the things that's what we really like, not just
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: be entertained, we really love the fact that someone made something.
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 2: Well, my girlfriend Read Morano has been advocating for a
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: seal to be put on projects that are made without AI.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: That's a great idea. Yeah, that is a very good idea.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: I think that's a great idea.
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: I like that a lot. I think I think, yeah,
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: instead of like the parental warning, AI free, Yeah, AI free, right,
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: no GMO foods, bitch, there's something to do that. I
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 1: think that's a great idea. Actually that I think that
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: might be the way that might be the solution is
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: a seal. Yeah, I like that a lot. Makes sense
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: that people. You know, when you see a great something
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: that someone made, what one of the things that you
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: really like about it is that it came from a
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 1: human beings creativity? Yeah, Like, did you see Obsession? No,
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: it's fucking great. It's so good. It's so crazy and
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: so creepy and so weird and so brilliant and like
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: no one in it is famous and it's phenomenal and
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: it's really a geno and creepy. And one of the
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: things I loved is like this is what is he
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: like twenty five or something like that director? Yeah, he's
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: twenty five years old. Yeah, who you know had done
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: a bunch of YouTube styles.
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: I love it. It's a complete accident.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: Just sh it has this amazing idea, and you got
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: these people who they're relatively unknown but really talented.
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 2: We're craving that. Yes, yes, we don't want the formula, right,
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: we never have what wanted the formula. And it's so
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: maddening try to set a movie up right now in
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 2: because what they want is they want someone an actor
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: that's worth twenty million dollars and they'll give you ten
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 2: million dollars to do the film. You get the guy
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: that that they normally would have to pay twenty million
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: dollars and you get him to do your film for
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: you know, three hundred thousand. You got a film.
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: Good.
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: There's no gamblers anymore, there's no risk takers. When I
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: was coming up, you know, you had these guys like
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: actually Joe, you know, Joe Roth gave the money to
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: do credible rock this, you know, and he says he
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: was basically like, here's the here you go, kid, do it.
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: I'm like, really, I get to do this? Well, you know,
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 2: I wound up with you know, Final Cut and everything.
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: They used to do that they used to invest in
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: the risk, right, because only only will the risk produce
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: something genuine and new and fresh. If you don't gamble,
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: you're and you're you're measured, and you're on a formula
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 2: and you got your stars, it's gonna the audience is
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 2: going to know it. They know it's oh, this is prepackageding,
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: pre programmed for my demographic. And I kind of resent it,
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: you know, whereas something like that obsession is like coming
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: out of left field. No one is predicting it, programming it.
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: It's just an accident and people love it. That's what
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 2: is exciting about. You know. It's like when you're trying
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: a new material in a club and you're like, I
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: don't know if it's gonna work, but fucking do it
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: and it gets the laugh. That's that thrill is what
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: it's all about, right, That's the that's the moment where
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: you go, I gambled and it paid off, right, Yeah,
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: that's that. I don't know how much we have that
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 2: experience anymore in Hollywood.
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: Do you think it's just because of the extreme cost
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: that's involved, I mean, just to promote a film, like
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: if you have a film and it's got a budget,
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: like especially I think is that it's probably why so
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: many superhero movies get green lit, right, because it's one
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: of the only gambles. Like if you're gambling on an
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: Avengers movie, like you can't miss get the Hulk to
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: smash a bunch of shit, Captain America comes in, You're
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: good like this, you're good. You're gonna make your money back,
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: and so you kind of have to, you know, like
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: if you're a money person, if you're not a creative person,
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: you're just a money person who happens to be in
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: the movie business, which I'm sure a lot of them are.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: They're just looking at as a return on investment.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I guess, you know, that's always been that
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: way to some degree. But I don't know, I don't
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 2: know why it became such a risk to try new stuff.
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, because they're not putting that much money into it,
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: you know, those Marvel movies they're costing them two one
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: hundred and fifty million dollars two hundred million dollars to produce.
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: The independent filmmakers that are proven independent filmmakers that are
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: asking for like five million, four million to do a film,
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 2: So if they put some advertisement in it, maybe it's
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: going to cost them fourteen million all told. And you know,
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 2: can they make that back? Is the marketplace gonna support that?
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: Who knows. I wouldn't want to be an investor. But
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: I also, you know, I have a nostalgia for a
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: time when Robert Altman could make a film, you know,
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: and it could just blow people's minds, and then the
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: next film he made, you know, as he would gleefully
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 2: tell you that they're going to hate this one, you know,
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: and I love that, you know that, and people would
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: either love it or hate it. But he was making
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: his own films. He was making distinctive films that were him.
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: Is it more difficult or easier to get a film
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: released today if you make it yourself.
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: Because you don't have distribution really? So, you know, I
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 2: suppose in the future there's going to be some form
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: of distribution that will be more egalitarian. But right now,
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: it's a huge risk.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: How does distribution work? Like, say, if you decided you're
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: going to get a bunch of investors together and put
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: together a film, do you have to get distribution before
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: you even start producing.
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, you have to have foreign sales in place.
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 3: Whoa foreign sales?
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Like, I think basically the economic model right now
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: is those the investors want to be paid and not
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 2: be losing money by the time they start shooting. In
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 2: other words, they're not going to lose money. They've already
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: sold it for more than they've paid and so there's
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: really no risk, no gamble. Then if the movie catches
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: fire at a film festival, then they'll put the money
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 2: into advertising it. If it doesn't catch fire at a
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: film festival or with critics, they'll just you know, Okay,
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: I already made my money, you know, we'll just sell
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: it to you know, DVDs. Whatever. Yeah.
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 3: What a fucking shitty environment to create something hard.
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 2: It's yeah, my gals struggling with that right now. I
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 2: checked out of that hotel a while back, you know,
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 2: I was like, I don't want my heart broken like that.
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 2: So I've just been doing things on my own. I've
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 2: been producing things on my own shooting them, editing them.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: That's one of the reasons I wanted to do this
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 2: website was because I've got all this stuff that is
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: unreleased and I'm just going to start releasing it slowly.
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: Is that more satisfying to do it that way?
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 2: Not? It's more satisfying to go to can and win
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: Best Actor. I mean, it's much more satisfying when you
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: have a machine behind you that's supporting it. It's great,
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: you know, you know Mistic River, you know that kind
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: of like you have Warner Brothers, like, we love this film.
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 2: We're going to make sure that people see it. That's
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: what you need. You need your sponsors are that get it,
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: that want people to see it, that see the value
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 2: of it, and they'll put money into advertising. And that's
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 2: a great experience to be it. The other thing is just,
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 2: you know, pretty lonely. It's just, you know, you're trying
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: your best. I was in three movies after I won
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 2: the Oscar for Mystic River that I have considered three
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: of the best movies in my career, but nobody's seen them.
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: It's The Secret Life of Words, Code forty six and
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 2: Catch Catch, Catch a Fire, And they're all excellent movies,
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 2: but they came at a time that where you know,
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: the producers or the people that were distributing them didn't
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 2: really want to risk the money that would take See.
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: That's where there's a room for like a Ciskel and
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: Ebert type character today that can find those films and say, hey,
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: this one slipped under the radar. But this is really
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: an actual person that's a giant movie buff that can
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: go back and watch these and comment on them. And
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: we don't really Back then, Ciskel and Ebert were the guys.
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: If they gave you two thumbs down, you were fucked.
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: You were fucked. Yeah, and you know, they're very catty
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: with each other. It was fun thing. It's fun to
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: watch the outtakes. How much those guys actually didn't get along.
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, I was lucky with them. They gave me
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: great reviews.
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: It was good. They had good taste, Yeah, you know
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: they did.
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: And they loved film.
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: Yes, they clearly loved and they loved all aspects of it.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 3: And they would talk about.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: With great understanding and great passion the subtleties of the
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: performances and what really and how it was put together.
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: Even they talk about the score, you know.
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, and they spend like fifteen minutes on each film.
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which was yeah, never happened, and it was a
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: hugely successful show, which is like really confusing where there's
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: not something like that today because there's so much content today.
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: If you were like, it's not like what's out in
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: the movies right now, Like today, fucking there's a million
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: shows that are streaming. There's there's so much shit going on.
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: There's so much content that if you had a trusted source,
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: you know, a person who's like a real good critic
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: of stuff. Really I'm not even a critic. An appreciator
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 1: is a better word, Like someone who's a real passionate
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 1: enthusiast of film and of you know, different creative works.
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 1: They could just talk about something, recommend stuff.
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 2: But then there's the burnout of that too. Like you know,
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 2: I would talk to some of these guys and they'd
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: be like, you know, for every one of those good films,
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: we have to see like ten Drek, you know, and
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 2: the time spent watching these things kind of mind numbingly
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 2: painful for some of these people. You know, imagine having
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 2: to you know, wead through the muck to get.
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 3: To the guests.
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: But can't you just walk out of the film, like
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 1: just like you walk out of a movie theater and like,
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: this movie sucks. I've done that a few times me too.
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: It's a boring it's a terrible place to be, me too, Like,
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: I can't believe I'm leaving.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: It hard to do in the live theater, though, because
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: when they know you're there.
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 3: Right, that's different.
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But if you're if you're watching it at home,
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's really what you're trying to do. If
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: you you want to be one of the persons says
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: this is the worst fucking movie I've ever seen in
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: my life, and that's what you're doing. But if you
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: want to be a person who's just an enthusiast of
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: great stuff and just keep it on the positive side,
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: there's so much great stuff to review and so many
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: great things from the past that people haven't seen before
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: that you could sort of turn people onto.
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, oh, that'd be great.
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: It's kind of weird that there's not someone like that
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: right now.
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 2: It is weird. It is weird. I think maybe you
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 2: should you should do that, produce.
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: But I mean, it just doesn't even make sense that
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: there's so many different Like there's so much content, but
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: yet there's not that one thing that was a really
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: big part of the movie experience when we were younger.
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the Friday you know, that idea that there's
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 2: some exciting movie coming out on Friday and we're gonna
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 2: go to it.
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was huge. That was huge, And the movie
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: was coming out like I guess you have it right
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: now with The Odyssey, like a lot of people are.
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: It's like one of those movies that's so big people
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: are scrambling to go see it in the movie theaters
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 1: and it's getting people excited about it along with a
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: lot of the cultural war controversies that everybody that I
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: know that's seen I haven't seen it yet. It says
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 1: fucking all that away. The movie is amazing that I hear. Yeah,
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: they're just like it's almost like a good way to
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: bait people into getting really you know, yeah.
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like, oh it's not correct. Yeah, And it's just
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 2: I'm tired of it from both sets. I don't want
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: to I don't want to hear judgment, right, I just
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 2: help me. I don't. I don't I don't want to
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 2: be in the middle of this fight constantly you know,
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 2: it's the only I feel like, this is again what
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 2: we were talking about before. You know, it's the uh
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 2: as long as we're fighting with each other and they
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 2: we're fighting about films that are coming out, I was like,
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 2: come on, calm down, calm.
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 1: Down, Like, I don't care. It's just is it entertaining,
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: is it good? It doesn't have to be correct, doesn't
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: mean anything to me. There's never been a time in
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 1: history where correct was important to.
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 2: Me, yeah, or indicative of great art.
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 3: Right, it's just make it good.
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: And by all accounts, everyone that I know that's seen
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: the movie say it's fucking incredible.
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna try to see it soon.
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: But the culture war part of it is like, at
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: the very least it got people excited to see it
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 1: and either to hate it or but I know a
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: lot of people that wanted to go hate it and
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 1: because they were upset, you know, but Elliott Page played
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: this person just helling of Troy is a black lady
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: like ugh, who fucking cares? Not Like that's a mate
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: up story, like exactly, it's a myth be with Yeah,
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 1: it apparently might actually be based on a real place.
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: Though you know, they used to think that Troy was
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 1: not a real place, and then they discovered it. I
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: think that was was it in the seventies, When did
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 1: they discover Troy? Because they used to think that it
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: was completely mythical, that it was just fiction, a work
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: of fiction, and then they found the actual real city
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, like, that's the weird thing about
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: really old stories is so like there's so it's so
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: ambiguous as to what was the root was, what was
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 1: the origin of the story.
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 3: Was this a real event?
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 2: You ever stood on the stage of old Roman Amphitheater? Yes,
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 2: that's something else.
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's wild.
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's history and those stones. And you know,
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: we were doing a show over in Leon, France in
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 2: one of those theaters and we found something out because
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 2: we were doing rehearsal and when you're talking to the
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 2: other actor like this, you can't hear it out there
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 2: at all, and so it told us that what they
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 2: were doing was this. You know, back in the old days,
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 2: they had to perform out because you were to hear
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 2: if you were doing realistically talking to someone making eye contact.
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: That's what's weird about early film is that early film
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: you have stage actors who are used to doing it
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 1: with no microphones projecting, now doing it on film, so
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: it looks odd. Yeah, it's like there was this transition
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: period and then Brando came along and Brando just did
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 1: it real and everybody's like, what the fuck is he doing? Yeah,
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: he's acting like a real person.
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 2: This is crazy, yeah him Montgomery Cliff. Yeah, yeah, that
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 2: that was a you know, huge step forward for all
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 2: of us. Yeah, that to take the onus off the
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 2: theatrical and get more into the real you know.
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 1: And again, if you really think about it, not a
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: whole lot of time between like the invention of film
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: and then movie stars and all these things happening, like
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: this is a completely new cultural thing, like from the
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 1: early like what was the first film, like the first
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: film with sound?
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 3: What year was that?
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah that was seen twenties.
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 3: Wow, so think of that.
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: So you have from twenty seven and then just a
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: few decades later you have on the Waterfront, you have
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: The Hustler, You have these these incredible movie that did
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: they just have to figure out on the fly, you know,
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: how to Citizen Kane and they have to figure out
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: on the fly how to do this.
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 2: But also the if you ever watched the first films
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 2: like the Silent films and the ability to tell a
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 2: story about words, which was a whole other you know talent.
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 2: I mean you watch those Chaplain films, It is like
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 2: that man was insanely talented. Well.
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: Nos Ferado, the original nos Ferado, I love that. I
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 1: saw that at a public library in San Francisco when
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: I was a kid. They had a night where they
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 1: played it and I went to see it. I was like,
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: this is nuts incredible, and I think what year was
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: that film, nineteen twenty two.
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 2: And then Metropolis was oh, yeah, it's a crazy movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 2: I love that old stuff.
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: Oh that's great.
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 3: Those movies are great.
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 1: And at the time you got to imagine like the
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: experience of going to see that we're knowing had seen
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 1: movies before. This is like a new thing. Seen things
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: moving around on a giant screen like this.
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 2: Is mad alchemy, yeah, crazy magic, satan and you had
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: to read.
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: What they were saying to each other on the screen,
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: and then music would play. They had a guy with
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: an organ that was playing music along with it.
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, super cool, It is super cool. I would love
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 2: to like if you could try time travel and go
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 2: to one of those Oh yeah, movie theaters back then
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 2: there is, I mean.
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: One of the best vampire movies of all time.
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 2: And so the writing is just so good German expressionist.
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 2: Do you ever see M Peter Lourie.
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: It's just it's called the letter M, isn't it? I
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: never saw it?
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 2: What's about about a murderer that's stalking a bunch of people? Yeah,
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 2: I was a huge fan of that whole John or
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 2: of filmmaking.
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: Well, it's something so exciting about it because it like
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 1: when you limit the sensory input, like you have to
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 1: read the words and you want it's all black and
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 1: white and his music playing, it's like it's a totally
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: different thing that you're taking in. Yeah, you know, it's
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: like it's almost like half reading half watching, you know,
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: like you're reading, like you don't hear their voices.
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 3: You have to create their voices in your head.
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're feeling in a different way. Yeah, because
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 2: of the you know, it's black and white, so it's
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 2: not real, but it it is real and right. So yeah,
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 2: it's a great, great form. We should have more of those.
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 1: It's just hard to imagine that this is only one
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: hundred years old, that from there the now, this is
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: one hundred years. It's like a blink of an eye.
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 1: And when you think about human history, like when we
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: think about like the fifteen hundreds versus the sixteen hundreds,
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 1: the kind of think it's basically the same. If you're
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 1: born in fifteen twenty or sixteen twenty, it's fucking exactly
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 1: the same. Right, well, you're born in nineteen twenty or
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty, a fucking completely different world. You're living in
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: huge nineteen twenty. You have Nosferato twenty twenty six, you
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: have The Odyssey, you know, you have Doune, you have
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: these insane films.
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 2: Right, not to mention the technology you personally possess, Yes,
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 2: right in your pocket.
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 1: Right any moment in time, you could stream a movie.
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 2: I could see Nosferatu right now, right.
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or the Robert Eggerts one, the new one, which
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: is fucking fantastic. But it's just instantaneous. Everything's instantaneous, and
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 1: everything's right there for you. So it's great in that
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: sense that you will be entertained, there's something to watch
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 1: no matter what, but you're missing something on the like
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 1: the specialness of like having to go out and go
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: to a place even go to a video store and.
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 3: Go get it. You know, there's something missing.
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 2: I think that that's really at the core of it, though,
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 2: is the you know, I've decided this is what I'm
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 2: going to do today, the whole thing, you know, like
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: pre this, like I am going to be an active
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 2: participant in my life. It's when I first moved to
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 2: LA that I first understood this, in the late seventies.
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 2: La as opposed to New York, where I grew up.
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 2: LA you have to make a choice to find your fun.
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 2: New York will drop in your lap, right if you
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 2: walk down the street, something will present itself. But in LA,
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: when I first moved out there, I realized you got
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 2: to drive there. You got to drive and find your fun,
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 2: and you have to be an active participant in your
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 2: cultural life. And once I understood that about LA, I
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 2: could understand how to live there. It was it was
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 2: at first very frustrating because it was very boring, right,
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 2: it wasn't happening, you know. When I walked out on
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 2: the street, there was no street to walk out on.
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 2: It was just too big. But it's that kind of
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 2: I have chosen this weekend to drive thirty minutes in
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 2: that direction to see this punk rock band right that,
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 2: and I will be an active participant in that. And
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 2: once you do that, you're liberated. Then you know anything's possible.
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 2: But now it's like, I want it in my backyard.
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: Not only that, Now that thing interrupts you while you're
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 1: taking something else in. It constantly wants your attention. It's
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 1: like a puppy. It's like like, hey, hey, hey watch
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: the movie. Yeah, it's constantly demanding your attention, or at
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 1: least enticing you to take a look at it vibrating
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 1: in your pocket?
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, have you ever thought about trashing it?
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 1: I've gotten off social media for weeks at a time.
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 1: I've done that, but I need it for work too much.
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 1: I need it for emails. I need to I can't
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 1: always just be in front of a laptop.
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 2: You have like a flip flip phone. No, no, I'm
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 2: thinking about getting it.
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 1: I have a computer that I write on that's not
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: connected to anything. My writing computer is just a Lenovo
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 1: think pad. I never use it for anything other than writing.
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 1: It does if I go online, it's just to research
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: something like ask a question like what is this? How
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 1: does this work? It's never I never surf the web.
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 1: I don't look at any websites. I don't do anything
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 1: with it right, and that helps a lot for that,
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: But for phones, I have too many friends that are
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: sending me funny things. There's always like some funny thing,
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: and all right, I guess I'm back on Instagram and
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: check it out, like oh Jesus is crazy. There's too
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 1: much coming at you. And the problem is if I
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 1: put it down, which I do often for like the
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 1: whole day, when I pick it up, I'll get seventy
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 1: text messages to go through, and then I don't respond
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 1: to some and some people get mad and then like
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. It's like it's too much, there's too much
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 1: coming in, and then there's so much. Hey look at this,
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 1: Hey check this out? Have you seen this? What do
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 1: you think about that? You think this is real? You know?
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 2: And then the people that you don't respond to can
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 2: oftentimes take the lack of response as basically basically you're
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 2: saying fuck you, and it's not the case at all, right,
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 2: you just don't have the time to do it right.
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 2: And you read it and you liked it and you smiled,
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 2: but you didn't put a smiley on it.
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 1: I have to put a little heart.
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 2: It's a very strange social dynamic, and it's I'm not
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 2: sure I'm very good at it.
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 1: No, No, it's probably a good sign.
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It demands too much. That's the problem. As much
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: as it is interesting. If you have a wide social circle,
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 1: it demands too much of your time. If you have,
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 1: you know, one hundred units of attention that you have
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 1: for use throughout the day, it demands too many units.
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 1: There's just too much coming at you, and it'll take
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: away from other things that you do. And that's that's
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 1: a real problem.
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I like sitting in my garden.
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 1: Is that your thing?
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I have a really good I've been gardening. Yeah.
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 2: That's that's the real thing. That's my peaceful place.
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 1: That's a real thing. It's real start. Yeah, real plant
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 1: grows out, life comes from it.
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 2: Yep. You can eat stuff from it.
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 1: You need stuff to do, right, You need a thing
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 1: that can take you away from the other.
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 2: Things, something to make more beautiful every day, something to
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 2: you know, something to care for. It's you know, whether
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 2: it's the garden. I have a garden in Los Angeles
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: that you know, I grow herbs and you know, to
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 2: walk down and put that those herbs, those fresh heerbs
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 2: in the almelet you're making. You know, it's it's it's
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 2: a small thing, but it's huge.
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 2: And then I have back east to have I planted
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 2: a garden with my son this year, you know, like
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 2: vegetable card and he's you know, I haven't been there,
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 2: but he's been saying the tomatoes are coming like crazy,
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 2: and cucumbers, and you know that's.
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: Such a yeah, there you go.
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 2: It's this Uh, it's a I've I've really love this.
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 2: I love the idea that we can you know, the
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 2: earth has so much to offer us. You know, all
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 2: it needs is of water and sunlight and it'll produce
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 2: all these beautiful things.
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 1: Well, there's built in human rewards for growing things too.
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 1: It's a human reward system that we have had in
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 1: our DNA for thousands and thousands and thousands of years.
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 1: When you grow things and they produce fruit and they
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 1: produce vegetables, like, it's exciting.
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because you're gonna eat. Yeah, You're gonna survive.
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And then when you when you're doing your harvest
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 2: in the fall, you have an abundance, right, and then
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 2: I learned how to pickle, and that's a joy because
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 2: now you're now you're set for the winter. Right now,
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 2: You've got a refrigerator full of pickled stuff, and uh,
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 2: you know, to be able to bite into a crisp
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 2: pickle that you grew as a cucumber in the summer
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 2: in December, it's like, you know, this is how they survived.
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 2: You know, this is those you know, the storage of
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 2: crops and how you make them survive through the winter.
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 2: It's a skill that you know that. Well, that's why
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 2: we're still here.
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 1: And then you find out that pickling and fermented foods
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 1: and all those things are fantastic for your body, incredible
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 1: in a way that other foods just aren't and helps
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 1: your microbiome and helps your cut.
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then you can, you know, use the extra
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 2: pickle juice for a martini. It's fantastic, or you can
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 2: just drink it, yeah, pickle juice.
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 1: I have a company that sells you these little packets
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 1: of pickle juice and you drink it because it's a
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 1: probiotic beverage.
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I have I have many jars of pickles that
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 2: are there's no more pickles in but I keep the
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 2: juice for drinking. It's uh. And you know fermented foods,
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 2: and you know, I've learned, you know so much about
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 2: the gut biome and how to make that healthier. And
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 2: all these challenges were up against with all the poisons
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 2: in our food and how to get around them and
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 2: how to clean clean, clean yourself out. And I just
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 2: did a cleanse, one of those master cleanses. I just
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 2: did fourteen days on Well, you don't eat anything for
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 2: fourteen days, and it's amazing, how how great you feel
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 2: at the end of it.
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 1: Fourteen whole days no food at all, no food at all? Wow?
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 1: What did you drink?
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 2: Water, lemon juice, cayenne pepper, and maple syrup And that'll
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 2: get you through the day. And then but every morning
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 2: you're doing a perch, right, so you're cleaning out, you're
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 2: cleaning all the poisons out. I do that a couple
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 2: of times a year.
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 1: Fourteen days a long time with no food. It is
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 1: what's the first thing you eat when it was over?
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 2: You got to ease your way back in, like clear
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 2: broth first, soups, then vegetables, then get to the over
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 2: how long about a week? Reenterally? Yeah, whoa. I mean,
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 2: you're eating, but you're not going for the stake first, right,
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 2: you know, and so you have to kind of ease
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 2: your system back into it.
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 3: Do you experience mental clarity when you do that?
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 2: Total mental clarity?
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 1: Interesting? Yeah, I've never done it.
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 2: First first three days are tough, but then once you
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 2: get past the third day, it's it's pretty. It's pretty.
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 2: Your energy level is like constant throughout the day and
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 2: you can work I play sports with it. You know.
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 2: It's it's around ten days you should stop doing the
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 2: physical stuff very much exertion. I can still take a
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 2: bike ride and stuff.
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 1: But you were working out three days of no food. Yeah, wow,
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 1: you have to.
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 2: You know, everyone's going to have their own reactions. So
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm not advocate eating even to do it,
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't want to be responsible for that,
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 2: but for me personally, it's really helped because it also
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 2: it restarts your system. It basically you get rid of
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 2: the toxins. You're certainly not drinking, you're not doing any
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 2: kind of abusive shit to yourself and uh and basically
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 2: your body is thanking you by the clarity. It gives
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 2: you like you're really like and The other thing that
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 2: happens is I'll just start cleaning shit, right, So you know,
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 2: when I'm on a cleanse, I'm going to clean a
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 2: closet because you're not only cleaning yourself, you're cleaning your
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 2: environment around you. And it's uh, I you know, I
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 2: just I just did it two weeks ago.
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 1: So yeah, how do you decide when to do it?
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 2: Usually when you've been a little indulgent and you're not
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 2: feeling too good and uh, you know, you put on
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 2: a little weight and just like I I don't feel good,
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 2: I want to, you know, clean out.
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 1: You must lose a ton of weight doing that. Yeah,
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 1: how much have you lost doing fourteen days?
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 2: Twenty five pounds? Whoa about to a day?
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 1: Wow?
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 1: And then so then your body's running completely on keytones, right,
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 1: because your body's running on fat. Yeah, and so your
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 1: body's burning fat and keytnes when you run. I've been
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 1: on ketogenic diets in the past, and then I've been
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 1: on the carnivore diet, which says the exact same thing,
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 1: where your your mental clarity is just so much better,
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 1: Like everything just runs smooth. It's just like you're, like
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 1: you were saying, you have this level flat energy throughout
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 1: the day. There's no highs and lows like crashing after
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 1: a big meal.
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 2: Or caffeine pumpumps or yeah, all that stuff. Yeah yeah,
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 2: but staying up till you know, midnight and fine. The
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 2: energy is fine, and you'll sleep less too, need less
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 2: sleep for some reason. I don't know why.
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 1: So I think it's probably good to give your digestive
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 1: system a little break too. Yeah, let it relax. I mean,
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 1: it's constantly work, especially if you eat all throughout the day.
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 1: If you're a snacker, and then you have late at night,
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 1: you have a little bite to eat, wake up in
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 1: the morning, you have breakfast.
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 3: Like your digestive systems.
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 1: Is constantly grinding out this food and digesting everything.
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, the real, the real poison for me is sugar.
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 2: You know it manifested in alcohol for a while, but
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 2: I don't drink that much anymore. But sugar is the
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 2: is the it's.
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 1: The big for everybody.
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a tough one. It's a very addictive and
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 2: and you know, you think, oh it feels great when
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 2: you yeah, first have it, but then it makes you
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 2: pay so well.
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 1: It's also with modern diets, like what the kind of
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 1: sugar that we have available today really never existed in
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 1: the past before.
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 1: You know, for most of human history, if you wanted
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 1: something sweet yet eat fruit, right, you know, And now
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you've you got candy bars. You
• 2:05:01
  Speaker 1: have stuff that comes to you in this insane form.
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 1: We have one hundred grams of sugar and something that
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 1: you can eat, right, that's nuts, yeah, you know, or
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 1: a drink. You know, you get one of those what
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 1: is it bask and Robins blizzard? Is that the one
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: that is Oh my god, that thing.
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 2: Those things will mess you up.
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 1: Oh, you get a headache after you're done.
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 2: I know. It's like it's like alcohol. Yeah, it's that
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 2: expression candies dandy, but liquor's quicker. Yeah, yeah, it's you know,
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 2: it's liquors just concentrated sugar. It's just like you know,
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 2: but uh, you know, I try not to be too
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 2: much of a zealot about any of this stuff, but
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 2: I have Like my mom was introducing us to natural
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 2: food in late sixties. So she had read a book
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 2: called Poisons on Our Food and started taking processed food
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 2: out of our diet. Wow, white bread. This is early
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 2: on sixty seven yeah. So she she was a real
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 2: uh you know, she really was a homeopath before it
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 2: was called a homeopath. And I wound up getting cancer
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 2: and was told she had to have chemo and said no,
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 2: I'm not doing it, and kicked it herself, you know,
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 2: with changing what she was putting in her body. And
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 2: so I've always you know, had had her as a
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 2: kind of guidepost for my health. She used to always
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 2: say that the body is a temple and that the
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 2: body can heal anything, and a lot of it has
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 2: to do with how you approach it in your mind.
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 2: And if you believe that you can heal yourself, you
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 2: can heal yourself.
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 1: Is she getting this from books?
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 2: I think she got it from a combination of books
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 2: and her faith in you know, Catholicism. I think every
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 2: religion has a fasting day for some reason. That seems
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 2: to be something that is common to all religion that
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 2: there's it's important that you'd not eat one day a week.
• 2:07:15
  Speaker 2: She wouldn't do that with us, you know, as kids.
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 2: She wouldn't starve us.
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 1: For a day.
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 2: But she did have a holistic approach to the way
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 2: that she viewed illness. And I remember her drumming it
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 2: into our heads that if you ever get told by
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 2: a doctor anything, you have to challenge you. Go go
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 2: to a different doctor and see if they say the
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 2: same thing. Always, always, always. She lost her father and
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 2: her brother within the course of a year to medical
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 2: malpractice in the fifties, and so she had a serious
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 2: distrust of the medical profession. And back then it was
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 2: like there was no one even thought about suing for malpractice.
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 2: It was like, that's the doctor. He's an authority figure.
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 2: You can't mess with him, right, So she she always
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 2: approached it with a healthy level of questioning whenever she
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 2: was given advice by doctors.
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 2: And it's interesting she you know, she's always been you know,
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 2: I've always kind of wondered how she would have reacted
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 2: to this recent thing and all that. But I have
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 2: you ever done ayahuasca? No?
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have done DMT, which is the that's the
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 1: actual compound that's active in ayahuasca. Ayahuasca is an orally
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 1: active version of d MT.
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I was, you know, will they tell you
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 2: to go in when I did it, they tell you
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 2: to go in with an intention, and my intention was
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 2: to you know, I was frustrated with feeling anger about
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 2: what was going on in the world, and I said,
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 2: I want to release that. I don't want to be
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 2: consumed by that anger. And so, uh, I wound up
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 2: in this you know, that heavy duty you know journey
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 2: that Iahuasca is and my mom showed up.
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and she's it's not like you actually hear a voice,
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 2: but you hear a voice, right you. Basically she's there.
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 2: You know, it's her. She's saying something to you. And
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 2: what she said was you're injured. You're a warrior and
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 2: you're injured and you need to rest, but the fight's
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 2: not over. Oh that's that was what she That's what
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 2: she told me in response to my intention.
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 1: Whoa what were you battling?
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 2: I was battling my frustration with the dissolution of society,
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 2: people being angry at each other over ridiculous things, long
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 2: friendships being affected, people being canceled for expressing their opinion,
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 2: all this stuff. And I wanted out. I wanted to
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 2: be absolved of that. I didn't want to be engaged
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 2: in it. And what she told me in the course
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 2: of this thing, believe it or not, you know, I
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 2: understand people will be well that's woo and you're just
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 2: tripping and whatever. But I definitely felt her presence there.
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 2: It was no doubt it. I went through a whole
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 2: journey with her. I saw things from our lives together,
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 2: and there was one moment where I was, you know,
• 2:10:52
  Speaker 2: I was always been curious about something that happened in
• 2:10:57
  Speaker 2: kindergarten or something I don't remember, and she, you know,
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 2: at one point I felt her presence and she said,
• 2:11:05
  Speaker 2: you were right about that. I'm sorry we didn't listen
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 2: to you, you know, and this kind of really profoundly
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 2: deep experience. But at the end of it, I felt
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 2: completely lighter and completely you know, relieved to have been
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 2: through the experience and a great, great connection with my mom,
• 2:11:27
  Speaker 2: you know, just like a beautiful like Ah, she gets it.
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 2: She's still around. I've had quite a few experiences in
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 2: this realm and my mom, in fact, you know, she
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 2: my father died when he was eighty and my mom
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 2: was seventy eight, and she wasn't sick, but my dad
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 2: had been dying for a while and we all got
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 2: down to say goodbye to and they were living in
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 2: Mexico at the time, and we went to the funeral,
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 2: and my mom was very stoic and sang very strongly
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 2: my father's favorite song at the funeral, and she didn't cry.
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 2: And we were all concerned about her, and we hired
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 2: a couple of people for when we left to take
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 2: care of her. And she was really agitated the last night,
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 2: and I was there and she said, you know, I
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 2: don't trust these people. I don't know if they're going
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 2: to talk about you or you know, and your famous
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 2: and all that stuff. And I said, Mom, don't worry
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 2: about it. You know, they're just here to get your
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 2: stuff if you need it. Don't worry about it. I
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 2: go off. She wakes up the next morning, she says
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 2: to my sisters, who are still in the house with
• 2:12:35
  Speaker 2: her everything I said last night, don't worry about it.
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 2: And they said, what happened? Mom? She had a dream,
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 2: she said. I was in my childhood home in Westwood, California,
• 2:12:49
  Speaker 2: and I was something in my living room and I
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 2: couldn't look at it was a stone figure. I couldn't
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 2: look at it, and it was disturbing me. I didn't
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 2: want to look at it. But then I look out
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 2: the bay window and then coming down the street, I
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 2: see by my first friend in life, a group of
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 2: people coming towards the house, and it didn't make any sense.
• 2:13:07
  Speaker 2: There were people from my childhood, people from my coal society,
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 2: people from my work, but they were all there and
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 2: they all came to the door. And when they showed up,
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 2: I realized everything was going to be fine. And I realized,
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 2: oh my god, that was the departed that had come
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 2: to say it's going to be okay. Wow. And so
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 2: my sister's left three days. Four days later, we got
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 2: a phone call my mom has died. She wasn't sick.
• 2:13:37
  Speaker 2: And then my sister talks to the woman that was
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 2: taking care of her and she said, it was really strange.
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 2: You know, the night before she died, she said, he's
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 2: here and they said who's here and she said, Gil,
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 2: my husband, he's here. He's come to get me. And
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 2: they said, no, Mary, he's not there, and she said, oh,
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 2: he most certainly is. And he looks very strong because
• 2:14:03
  Speaker 2: he died. Feeble goes to bed that night and passes.
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 2: WHOA So even the most cynical person in the world
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 2: that doesn't believe in afterlife or anything, how do you
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 2: explain that? How do you explain whatever chemicals were going
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 2: on in her brain to bring her to that passing
• 2:14:23
  Speaker 2: where she was going to join the person that she
• 2:14:25
  Speaker 2: loved for her entire life. That's a beautiful thing, regardless
• 2:14:29
  Speaker 2: value look at it.
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 1: I don't think there's any value in being cynical about
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 1: these experiences, and even the ayahuasca experience. Like this idea
• 2:14:39
  Speaker 1: that you're hallucinating and that that's what this is doesn't matter.
• 2:14:45
  Speaker 1: It's the same experience. If you really did make contact
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 1: with your mother in the afterlife and you really did
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 1: have this communication versus whatever the fuck hallucination means. I
• 2:14:56
  Speaker 1: don't know what do you mean by that. It's the
• 2:14:59
  Speaker 1: same experience. Yeah, So, like there's no value in being
• 2:15:02
  Speaker 1: cynical about it. Like you get, you get there's something
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 1: that you experience from it that's tangible, it's it's real,
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 1: you feel it. It changes your perspective, it changes the
• 2:15:14
  Speaker 1: way you feel about the world. Like, that's a real thing,
• 2:15:18
  Speaker 1: that's real. Just because you can't put a measuring tape
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 1: to it or you can't put it on a scale,
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 1: don't say it's not real.
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 2: There's so many ways of being that we haven't even
• 2:15:27
  Speaker 2: studied or have no idea about how people can communicate.
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 2: Over two thousand Miles. Like a mother wakes up in
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 2: the middle of the night knowing something's wrong with their
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 2: child and five minutes later the fucking phone rings. What
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 2: the hell is that?
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 3: Twins? Yeah, winds.
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 1: Why strange connections with each other.
• 2:15:45
  Speaker 2: When I was my grandfather who was very close to
• 2:15:49
  Speaker 2: he was had been dead for two months and I
• 2:15:53
  Speaker 2: had a dream about him and he and I woke
• 2:15:56
  Speaker 2: up like startled, and I heard his voice, you know,
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 2: and he said, basically, don't worry, I'll take care of it.
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 2: And I didn't know what the hell it meant, but
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 2: it was very clear. It was like, I'll take care
• 2:16:07
  Speaker 2: of it. Fifteen minutes later, I get a phone call
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 2: from Susan and my son, Miles, who was six years
• 2:16:16
  Speaker 2: old at the time, had run out into the middle
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 2: of seventh Avenue, and she said it was the weirdest
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 2: thing something. It was like something stopped him like that,
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 2: and a car goes behind him and a car goes
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 2: in front of him. And I was like, I know
• 2:16:32
  Speaker 2: exactly what just happened. Whatever that is, whatever energy he
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 2: could muster in whatever phase of being he was, he
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 2: fucking saved my son's life heroically. I'm no doubt about that.
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 2: Why would he show up and say that to me?
• 2:16:54
  Speaker 2: He said, I don't worry, I'll take care of it. Wow.
• 2:16:57
  Speaker 2: So I totally believe this stuff. I believe that we
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 2: that life death, there's other planes of existence that we
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 2: can get to through various means. It doesn't have to
• 2:17:11
  Speaker 2: be ayahuasca. It doesn't. There are If you're open to
• 2:17:17
  Speaker 2: listening in different ways, there are great things available for you.
• 2:17:24
  Speaker 2: It's like the idea of an accident. Is it an
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 2: accident that you run into that person that you've been
• 2:17:29
  Speaker 2: wanting to talk to and all of a sudden, now
• 2:17:30
  Speaker 2: they're right in front of you. Right, you know, that's
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 2: not an accident, it's it's divine whatever, you know, whatever
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 2: the divine is for you, it's there's there's another level
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 2: of energy that is going around.
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 2: You know, we haven't even studied what how the heart communicates.
• 2:17:49
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 2: You know there's that Spanish or Portuguese cardiologists that talks
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 2: about the realm of communication in in in the electromagnetic
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 2: field the heart and what that means and how the
• 2:18:04
  Speaker 2: heart can communicate and hasn't parts of the heart have
• 2:18:08
  Speaker 2: more neurons and parts of the brain and like what
• 2:18:11
  Speaker 2: is that all about, and it's that we don't we
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 2: don't think that way, you know, we don't want to experience.
• 2:18:18
  Speaker 2: We have a it's a heart, is a meat pump,
• 2:18:21
  Speaker 2: and that's it just runs in your entire life. But
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 2: it doesn't this guy's suggesting. No, it's electromagnetic energy. It's
• 2:18:29
  Speaker 2: what makes us live longer if we're with someone else
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 2: or with a pet. You know that people that are
• 2:18:36
  Speaker 2: isolated and alone are hurting and they're not having that
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 2: electromagnetic connection with other people. That's why we crave crowds.
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 2: That's why we want to be in you know, groups
• 2:18:46
  Speaker 2: of people. It's a natural thing. It keeps us alive,
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 2: it keeps us activated in a community. But we don't
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 2: study that. We don't study what that is. And I
• 2:18:57
  Speaker 2: think it's kind of magical.
• 2:18:58
  Speaker 3: And that's why solitary can findmen.
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 1: Is such a cruel Yeah, yeah, I mean there's a
• 2:19:03
  Speaker 1: lot of people that think it's actual torture.
• 2:19:06
  Speaker 2: Of course it is, Yeah, of course it is. You've
• 2:19:09
  Speaker 2: got nothing to interact with, and it's why the you know,
• 2:19:14
  Speaker 2: it's why that lockdown is cruel. You know that we
• 2:19:18
  Speaker 2: you know, just the scope of that loneliness was is
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 2: just immense, you know that some people had to deal.
• 2:19:25
  Speaker 1: With, especially people that were already struggling. Some people are
• 2:19:28
  Speaker 1: already filled with anxiety, and they already had suffered from depression,
• 2:19:31
  Speaker 1: and they were already weird socially, and then all of
• 2:19:34
  Speaker 1: a sudden they're just completely isolated from everyone else for
• 2:19:36
  Speaker 1: a year or a year and a half, depending on
• 2:19:39
  Speaker 1: where you lived. So it's weird this desire that people
• 2:19:43
  Speaker 1: have to define things as real or not real, and
• 2:19:46
  Speaker 1: and also to let everyone know, Oh, I'm not fallen
• 2:19:50
  Speaker 1: for that nonsense, you know, but God, I mean, at
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 1: one point in time, do you have to say, well,
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 1: all these stories, all these experiences that people have, maybe
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 1: there's something to it. And anyway, this closed mindedness is
• 2:20:01
  Speaker 1: not benefit benefiting me in any way.
• 2:20:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's magic, magic in the world. I mean,
• 2:20:10
  Speaker 2: there's this old way of thinking I became do you
• 2:20:13
  Speaker 2: know what the uh uh? There's a book called The
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 2: Nature of Things by a kind named Lucretius, written in
• 2:20:21
  Speaker 2: three hundred and fifty BC, and it's epicureanism. And epicureanism
• 2:20:26
  Speaker 2: now is about you know, you like food, you like wine, whatever.
• 2:20:29
  Speaker 2: Back then, it was like the whole purpose of this
• 2:20:31
  Speaker 2: philosophy or religion, whatever you want to call it, was
• 2:20:35
  Speaker 2: that that all of life is a miracle. All everything
• 2:20:40
  Speaker 2: that you're seeing in front of you is the first
• 2:20:43
  Speaker 2: time it's happening and will never happen again. It's a
• 2:20:46
  Speaker 2: collision of atoms in a particular way. They don't call
• 2:20:49
  Speaker 2: them atoms. What they call them the smallest particles that
• 2:20:52
  Speaker 2: create unique experiences every moment of your life. And the
• 2:20:57
  Speaker 2: whole purpose of life is to seek the pleasure of
• 2:21:01
  Speaker 2: that and avoid pain. And the pain can be either
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 2: living isolated or without the idea of magic, or indulging
• 2:21:12
  Speaker 2: in something where it creates pain. Too much pleasure creates pain.
• 2:21:17
  Speaker 2: But this philosophy, in this beautiful long form poem written
• 2:21:21
  Speaker 2: by Lucretius in three point fifty BC, is all about magic.
• 2:21:25
  Speaker 2: It's all about this idea that, look how lucky we
• 2:21:29
  Speaker 2: are to wake up in the morning and see that
• 2:21:31
  Speaker 2: freaking cactus blooming. You know, that's like when we get
• 2:21:37
  Speaker 2: so inured from that, so, you know, anesthesized from the magic.
• 2:21:44
  Speaker 2: And it's all just the doldrum every day is the same.
• 2:21:49
  Speaker 2: That's robbing yourself of so much, right that the idea
• 2:21:53
  Speaker 2: that what if you just woke up and said, Hey,
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 2: it's fucking magic. It's this is amazing. First of all,
• 2:21:59
  Speaker 2: I'm breathing. Second of all, look at that sun coming
• 2:22:02
  Speaker 2: in the window, and this is going to be an
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 2: amazing day. Instead of like ah shit, I gotta get
• 2:22:09
  Speaker 2: up and you know, run my fucking thing. You know, Like, no, it's.
• 2:22:15
  Speaker 1: Also relative because if you were dying in a hospital
• 2:22:19
  Speaker 1: and you had this opportunity, say okay, all you have
• 2:22:23
  Speaker 1: to do is say these magic words, and you'll be
• 2:22:25
  Speaker 1: transported back to health in your home with a completely
• 2:22:29
  Speaker 1: new perspective and a completely new appreciation for just being
• 2:22:33
  Speaker 1: healthy and alive. Yeah, it's just it's just hard for
• 2:22:37
  Speaker 1: people to shift that perspective and think like that all
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 1: the time. But if you could force yourself, just as
• 2:22:42
  Speaker 1: an exercise, to say, I am so lucky to be
• 2:22:45
  Speaker 1: above ground. I am so lucky to be healthy and
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 1: mobile if I am, and I could just go do
• 2:22:51
  Speaker 1: what I want to do and live my life and
• 2:22:54
  Speaker 1: go say hi to people I love.
• 2:22:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I appreciate it.
• 2:22:58
  Speaker 2: And the idea that you can also even if things
• 2:23:01
  Speaker 2: are bad, that if you approach life that way, then
• 2:23:04
  Speaker 2: you there is a possibility making everything better. And it
• 2:23:08
  Speaker 2: has to do with humility. It has to do with
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 2: being able to say I can forgive somebody for something,
• 2:23:15
  Speaker 2: I can also ask forgiveness for something I've done. It's
• 2:23:20
  Speaker 2: all about humility. It's all about humility in the face
• 2:23:23
  Speaker 2: of not only your own personal experience, but in how
• 2:23:26
  Speaker 2: you view the universe. Like I were, either I'm lucky
• 2:23:31
  Speaker 2: to be here or what a blessing to be able
• 2:23:36
  Speaker 2: to have this life I've had. I want to give,
• 2:23:42
  Speaker 2: and I want to I had this beautiful experience when
• 2:23:46
  Speaker 2: I was going through my you know, one of my
• 2:23:49
  Speaker 2: darkest periods. This woman showed up and I've met her
• 2:23:54
  Speaker 2: once in my life. This Tibetan woman's a great singer.
• 2:23:58
  Speaker 2: And she and I said, why are you here? She said,
• 2:24:04
  Speaker 2: you're in trouble. I'm gonna take care of you. And
• 2:24:06
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know her and I said, all right, okay.
• 2:24:09
  Speaker 2: And so she's she did this reiki healing on me.
• 2:24:14
  Speaker 2: She sang she incense, and I didn't understand it. I
• 2:24:18
  Speaker 2: didn't understand why she was there. She makes me a
• 2:24:22
  Speaker 2: meal that evening, first evening, She's done all this healing
• 2:24:25
  Speaker 2: on me, and she says, you know, she makes the meal.
• 2:24:29
  Speaker 2: I'm eating, I finished eating, I start taking the dishes right.
• 2:24:34
  Speaker 2: She said, what are you doing? I said, well, you
• 2:24:37
  Speaker 2: cooked aalk clean. She says, so, now that's the problem
• 2:24:42
  Speaker 2: with you people in the West. It's all business deal.
• 2:24:46
  Speaker 2: I'm doing this for you. Can you just accept that
• 2:24:49
  Speaker 2: I'm taking care of you? Can you accept that? And
• 2:24:52
  Speaker 2: she said, you will never know how to give love
• 2:24:54
  Speaker 2: until you know how to receive love. And it blew
• 2:24:58
  Speaker 2: my mind because at the time I realized I was
• 2:25:03
  Speaker 2: engaged in that kind of transactional way of looking at relationships,
• 2:25:10
  Speaker 2: that the idea that giving completely is so much better.
• 2:25:17
  Speaker 2: You actually get more out of it than you do
• 2:25:22
  Speaker 2: receiving it. And once I understood that, it kind of
• 2:25:26
  Speaker 2: transformed everything for me because and that was the person
• 2:25:29
  Speaker 2: that was a total stranger. And she showed up just
• 2:25:31
  Speaker 2: out of nowhere, and I said, finally, at the end
• 2:25:34
  Speaker 2: of it, I said, why are you here? And she said,
• 2:25:37
  Speaker 2: you have done good things for the world. We need
• 2:25:42
  Speaker 2: you and she left. And you know, so, I'm I
• 2:25:53
  Speaker 2: didn't plan that. I didn't there was I had no
• 2:25:56
  Speaker 2: idea that was going to happen. But it made me
• 2:25:59
  Speaker 2: real lies there are angels in this world. They are
• 2:26:04
  Speaker 2: manifested as human beings. But there are certain kinds of
• 2:26:08
  Speaker 2: people that are there for you if you are open
• 2:26:12
  Speaker 2: for it. If you are closed off and cynical, you
• 2:26:16
  Speaker 2: will not see your angels. But if you are maybe
• 2:26:20
  Speaker 2: sometimes just completely wiped and you have no you know,
• 2:26:25
  Speaker 2: you're just ready to receive it. And maybe the fact
• 2:26:31
  Speaker 2: that I was able to receive that, I think really
• 2:26:33
  Speaker 2: helped me and help me shift everything. It's always a struggle,
• 2:26:38
  Speaker 2: of course, that doesn't that lesson doesn't mean that I'm
• 2:26:41
  Speaker 2: that way forever. But it's a reminder. It's it's it's
• 2:26:45
  Speaker 2: that there is another energy in the world that is
• 2:26:49
  Speaker 2: actually an energy of good. We have consumed by the
• 2:26:55
  Speaker 2: bad all the time, all these you know, negative forces
• 2:27:00
  Speaker 2: that are trying to bring us down, and I think
• 2:27:02
  Speaker 2: that sometimes we get so defeated by those things that
• 2:27:07
  Speaker 2: we are not open to the energy of the angels,
• 2:27:11
  Speaker 2: the good. And when I say angels, I don't.
• 2:27:13
  Speaker 1: Mean I know what you mean. You know, yeah, super
• 2:27:16
  Speaker 1: positive people like something some pure expression of love and
• 2:27:22
  Speaker 1: compassion and generosity. Yeah yeah. And this is the real
• 2:27:26
  Speaker 1: problem with social media and algorithms in particular, is that
• 2:27:31
  Speaker 1: it really highlights the things that make you upset.
• 2:27:34
  Speaker 2: It does.
• 2:27:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that kind of.
• 2:27:37
  Speaker 1: Energy is like, really, is that is that affecting your
• 2:27:40
  Speaker 1: everyday life?
• 2:27:41
  Speaker 3: Well, it is if you dive.
• 2:27:42
  Speaker 1: Into the negativity all day long and you're engrossed in
• 2:27:46
  Speaker 1: social media and getting upset about things rather than experiencing
• 2:27:50
  Speaker 1: the life that's actually in front of you, and in
• 2:27:54
  Speaker 1: doing it from a positive perspective and not concentrating on
• 2:27:57
  Speaker 1: all these external things that could be making you angry
• 2:28:01
  Speaker 1: or making you frustrated or filling you with anxiety. You're
• 2:28:04
  Speaker 1: actually poisoning at yourself with that.
• 2:28:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you are. And and it's a constant battle because
• 2:28:11
  Speaker 2: that damn thing's buzzing all the time. But I have
• 2:28:14
  Speaker 2: gotten better with it. I will not look at it
• 2:28:17
  Speaker 2: first thing in the morning anymore.
• 2:28:18
  Speaker 1: Well, it's most last. We're talking about like film and
• 2:28:21
  Speaker 1: records being a new thing. This is a really new thing,
• 2:28:24
  Speaker 1: and this is very invasive. It's a very new thing
• 2:28:27
  Speaker 1: and very invasive, and it's going to take a while
• 2:28:29
  Speaker 1: for people to figure out the right way and the
• 2:28:31
  Speaker 1: wrong way to use it and what are their ramifications
• 2:28:34
  Speaker 1: and the consequences of using it incorrectly, you know, because
• 2:28:39
  Speaker 1: no one's teaching that, you know, they're not teaching children
• 2:28:42
  Speaker 1: that in school. There should be a course on This
• 2:28:44
  Speaker 1: is the negative aspect of social media. These are the
• 2:28:47
  Speaker 1: negative aspects of interaction. This is what it's doing to
• 2:28:50
  Speaker 1: your consciousness. This is what's doing to your focus. It's
• 2:28:54
  Speaker 1: stealing your joy, it's stealing your your your appreciation of
• 2:29:00
  Speaker 1: the moment.
• 2:29:01
  Speaker 2: Right, and it's leading you into conflict constantly, constantly, And
• 2:29:06
  Speaker 2: you know that's a negative thing. That's a that's a
• 2:29:10
  Speaker 2: force of evil. Yeah, strong word, but you know.
• 2:29:13
  Speaker 1: It's the right word, though. You know it's again there's
• 2:29:15
  Speaker 1: these words good, evil, angel, God. They fuck with people
• 2:29:19
  Speaker 1: because they're like, oh, what is that? It's I think
• 2:29:23
  Speaker 1: got to kind of abandon that way of thinking and
• 2:29:26
  Speaker 1: just go well, there's certainly positive and negative, and there's
• 2:29:29
  Speaker 1: certainly love and evil. Those are real things, and there's good.
• 2:29:34
  Speaker 1: There's good in the world. And also the more you
• 2:29:37
  Speaker 1: concentrate on other things, the more your life is defined
• 2:29:40
  Speaker 1: by those other things, whether it's good or bad. So
• 2:29:43
  Speaker 1: if you're constantly thinking about bad things, like well, you
• 2:29:46
  Speaker 1: can't have a very loving and amazing life if you're
• 2:29:48
  Speaker 1: constantly inundated with thoughts about negative things. And on the
• 2:29:53
  Speaker 1: other side of it. If you're thinking in a positive
• 2:29:55
  Speaker 1: way and enjoying love and friendship and community and just
• 2:29:59
  Speaker 1: doing stuff that you actually find value in, well this
• 2:30:02
  Speaker 1: has got to give you better energy and life. And
• 2:30:05
  Speaker 1: also the way you interact with other people will be different,
• 2:30:08
  Speaker 1: so you'll affect the way they feel, and that'll have
• 2:30:10
  Speaker 1: that butterfly effect out and to the rest of the
• 2:30:12
  Speaker 1: people they come in contact with.
• 2:30:14
  Speaker 2: Not to mention it's really good for your health.
• 2:30:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, well, what you were saying before, one of the
• 2:30:19
  Speaker 1: worst things for your health is loneliness.
• 2:30:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it'll kill you.
• 2:30:24
  Speaker 1: Tim Robbins, you're a cool motherfucker.
• 2:30:26
  Speaker 2: Thank you, man.
• 2:30:26
  Speaker 1: I enjoyed talking to you.
• 2:30:27
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it great.
• 2:30:28
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much.
• 2:30:29
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
• 2:30:30
  Speaker 1: My pleasure.