Latest / Foul Territory / Former GM Thad Levine: Winter Meetings thoughts, Conversations w/Framber’s rep, Passive execs problem

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Former GM Thad Levine: Winter Meetings thoughts, Conversations w/Framber’s rep, Passive execs problem · Foul Territory

0:02
Speaker 1: Bad Lebine joining us right now, great timing as the
0:04
Speaker 1: winter meetings are approaching.
0:05
Speaker 2: So that great to have you on.
0:07
Speaker 1: And good to see you again. What I want to do, though,
0:09
Speaker 1: is because the online world really needs to get hooked
0:11
Speaker 1: in from the jump, and I feel like the pressing
0:14
Speaker 1: question that will really bring people in and we'll get
0:15
Speaker 1: to a lot of other things, is what do you
0:18
Speaker 1: think the twins are going to do with Byron Buckston?
0:20
Speaker 1: A guy that you know pretty well as you spent
0:23
Speaker 1: a lot of time with him. Do you think that
0:25
Speaker 1: he will end up getting traded? And do you think
0:28
Speaker 1: that Byron will wave a no trade clause to a
0:30
Speaker 1: number of teams based on where the team's at Right now,
0:32
Speaker 1: I'm hitting you with something hard to start because I
0:34
Speaker 1: want people to know we're bringing it today.
0:37
Speaker 2: You're playing the aj Perzinski role here. This is the
0:41
Speaker 2: first time I've been on the show with no catchers present.
0:43
Speaker 2: It's quite shocking. I don't know how to respond. It's refreshing, Yeah, yeah,
0:48
Speaker 2: it's refreshing for goodness sake. Yeah.
0:50
Speaker 3: Much better looking, much better looking too. We don't hide
0:52
Speaker 3: behind the mask.
0:53
Speaker 2: You know, better beards, that's for sure, fellas Hey, just
0:56
Speaker 2: quick appreciation. I haven't got a chance to spend much
0:59
Speaker 2: time with you guys. Saw you guys play, Kevin absolutely
1:03
Speaker 2: spectacular defender is some of the most highlight reel catches
1:07
Speaker 2: I've ever seen in my career. You made. I remember
1:09
Speaker 2: so many of them, especially in Toronto. Just an absolute
1:13
Speaker 2: pleasure to watch you play with your intensity on defense
1:16
Speaker 2: and Todd, I would say, in a word, freakish in
1:21
Speaker 2: terms of your power, your pull side power. I remember
1:25
Speaker 2: the home run derby you hit and was highlight of
1:27
Speaker 2: my career. You doing that in front of the home
1:30
Speaker 2: crowd was spectacular. But you know, as we enter a
1:34
Speaker 2: free agency and we can talk about that globally, like you,
1:36
Speaker 2: two guys would be coveted right now based upon your
1:39
Speaker 2: skill set. So pleasure to spend some time with you.
1:42
Speaker 2: With regards to Byron, you know, Byron is such a
1:45
Speaker 2: unique player. I think keep in mind, guys, that one
1:48
Speaker 2: of the mentors he had, the captain who preceded him,
1:52
Speaker 2: was Joe Mauer. Joe Maller played his entire career in Minnesota.
1:55
Speaker 2: Joe Maher, who I know definitively because we offered to
1:58
Speaker 2: him at the end of his career the chance to
2:01
Speaker 2: go play wherever he wanted to. Derek Falvey myself ownership
2:04
Speaker 2: was very supportive of that. Joe decided to stay in Minnesota.
2:08
Speaker 2: You know, he felt a bond to that community. He
2:10
Speaker 2: never wanted to turn his back on that fan base.
2:13
Speaker 2: And I think Byron is wired in some similar fashions.
2:16
Speaker 2: You know, last trade deadline, I think he made a
2:18
Speaker 2: very bold statement to the media in which he said
2:21
Speaker 2: definitively he was not going to be treated he was
2:23
Speaker 2: going to stay with Minnesota. So while he is desirous
2:27
Speaker 2: of winning a championship, I think he primarily would like
2:30
Speaker 2: to do that in Minnesota. So I think the question remains, well,
2:34
Speaker 2: Derek Falvey will now skip for Derek Shelton sit down
2:37
Speaker 2: with him. Will they convince him that they're going to
2:40
Speaker 2: be competitive and competitive soon? And if so, I would
2:44
Speaker 2: expect Byron Buckston will want to be part of that.
2:46
Speaker 2: He's going to want to deliver a championship as best
2:48
Speaker 2: he can to the Minnesota fans. If, however, they say
2:51
Speaker 2: that there are a number of years away, he may
2:53
Speaker 2: start looking elsewhere. But I think he's going to be
2:55
Speaker 2: very specific as to where he wants to look. He
2:58
Speaker 2: is from Baxley, Georgia. I think the chance to get
3:00
Speaker 2: closer to home would be very important to him. Otherwise
3:03
Speaker 2: I would see him staying in a Minnesota Twins Jersey.
3:06
Speaker 3: Yeah. Before we get into the specifics of teams and stuff,
3:09
Speaker 3: I always, you know, when I have an opportunity to
3:11
Speaker 3: talk to someone like you, I kind of like to
3:13
Speaker 3: just know kind of what the day to day is
3:15
Speaker 3: like at the winter meeting for someone in your previous position.
3:20
Speaker 3: I attended for the first time last year. I spent
3:22
Speaker 3: a lot of time on the ground floor kind of
3:23
Speaker 3: walking around, but I always like to get a little
3:25
Speaker 3: insight now that I'm done playing. Do you go in
3:28
Speaker 3: with like a checklist in mind? Do you have, like
3:30
Speaker 3: you know, free agents that you want to set up
3:32
Speaker 3: meetings with. As agents call on, you just kind of
3:35
Speaker 3: take us into kind of the day to day and
3:37
Speaker 3: I guess the course of the winter meetings how that
3:39
Speaker 3: kind of shakes out for you.
3:41
Speaker 2: I mean, primarily we want to know if the traveling
3:43
Speaker 2: secretary has good snacks in the suite. I mean, that's
3:46
Speaker 2: kind of the focus of it. Kevin, I would say
3:48
Speaker 2: it's changed dramatically over the course of my career. When
3:51
Speaker 2: I started I was with the Colorado Rockies. Dan O'Dowd
3:54
Speaker 2: was the general manager, and the way it started was
3:57
Speaker 2: I was literally handed a list of all the phone
3:59
Speaker 2: numbers the other general managers. I would call all twenty
4:02
Speaker 2: nine rooms and try to set up one individual meetings
4:05
Speaker 2: where Dan o Daoud and his group could go sit
4:08
Speaker 2: down with them. And so there was a lot more
4:10
Speaker 2: individual engagement with teams. We would actually literally go visit
4:14
Speaker 2: with at least twenty, if not all twenty nine other clubs.
4:17
Speaker 2: You would sit down, you'd have an open conversation about
4:20
Speaker 2: what are your needs and surpluses, how do they align
4:22
Speaker 2: up with our needs and surpluses, and are there opportunities
4:26
Speaker 2: for us to get together to make deals. I think
4:28
Speaker 2: things have changed now a little bit. At the winter meetings,
4:32
Speaker 2: there's far less meeting together. There's a lot more conversations
4:35
Speaker 2: over the phone by way of text. There's a lot
4:38
Speaker 2: of stuff done leading up to the meetings, so you
4:40
Speaker 2: really are very targeted when you get to the meetings.
4:42
Speaker 2: Maybe you're only meeting with four or five clubs. It's
4:45
Speaker 2: the clubs that you see the most likelihood of getting
4:47
Speaker 2: a deal done. And then, as you guys know, there's
4:50
Speaker 2: so many agents, and there's so many members of the
4:52
Speaker 2: media there that you're constantly meeting with agents, members of
4:56
Speaker 2: the media, And as the way the off season goes,
4:59
Speaker 2: we usually start looking into free agency and trying to
5:02
Speaker 2: spend our owner's money to fill our holes. When that
5:04
Speaker 2: seems exorbitant, we go to the trade market, and then
5:07
Speaker 2: when it seems like the asking price to acquire talent
5:11
Speaker 2: is too high, we circle back to the free agent market.
5:14
Speaker 2: And so it's a constant conversation balancing between talking to agents,
5:18
Speaker 2: talking to other teams executives to try to find out
5:20
Speaker 2: where's the best deal that we can make, to try
5:23
Speaker 2: to make the biggest impact on an organization.
5:27
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you hit that well, man. Those things
5:29
Speaker 4: I always thought, like when I played, I would tell
5:31
Speaker 4: my agent I was a free agent, like, just give
5:33
Speaker 4: them a price. We already know what price we're at.
5:35
Speaker 4: Just tell tell the team I want to go to,
5:37
Speaker 4: or a team that's interest in me. It's going to be
5:39
Speaker 4: sell and sown. Let's get this ball move. And I'm
5:41
Speaker 4: sick of it. I got the holidays coming up here.
5:43
Speaker 4: But that's just just not how it goes, and I
5:46
Speaker 4: kind of wish it did, because I feel like more
5:48
Speaker 4: guys that either get picked up or you know, there'll
5:50
Speaker 4: be a little there'll be a little more stuff going
5:52
Speaker 4: in motion. But that's just.
5:56
Speaker 2: I think you're talking about two different approaches to an agent.
5:59
Speaker 2: Once you know one you're talking to who's clearly trying
6:02
Speaker 2: to get the most money he can for the player,
6:04
Speaker 2: and totally respect that. That's one style of negotiation. The
6:07
Speaker 2: other one is what you're talking about, which is where
6:09
Speaker 2: you're really contemplating what is the quality of life that
6:12
Speaker 2: that player wants to pursue. And sometimes that's playing in
6:15
Speaker 2: a specific market, Maybe it's an opportunity to play a
6:18
Speaker 2: specific position. Maybe a guy's hunting the longest term deal
6:21
Speaker 2: rather than the most money per year, and other guys
6:24
Speaker 2: want the most money in the shorter term because they
6:26
Speaker 2: want to get back to free agency. But when you're
6:28
Speaker 2: talking to an agent, you get a clear picture right
6:31
Speaker 2: out of the choot as to what type of negotiation
6:33
Speaker 2: you're undertaking. But I honestly always felt, from an executive standpoint,
6:37
Speaker 2: the more transparency, the more likely we were to get
6:39
Speaker 2: a deal done. I never took advantage of somebody if
6:42
Speaker 2: they were more willing to reveal that that player maybe
6:45
Speaker 2: really wanted to sign with you. You know, I think a
6:47
Speaker 2: measure of a person sometimes is how do you handle leverage?
6:50
Speaker 2: And so when an agent came to us and said,
6:52
Speaker 2: you know, hey, listen, my guy really would like to
6:54
Speaker 2: either stay with you as an existing player or come
6:57
Speaker 2: to you as a free agent. I never viewed that
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Speaker 2: as a compromise on their part. That was just a reveal,
7:02
Speaker 2: and I appreciated their honesty. You still want to treat
7:05
Speaker 2: the player extremely fairly in that situation, because the relationship
7:08
Speaker 2: is with the player moving forward, and if he doesn't
7:11
Speaker 2: realize in the moment that you took advantage of him,
7:13
Speaker 2: he certainly will over time. He will be disinclined to
7:16
Speaker 2: ever re sign with you, and his agent will be
7:17
Speaker 2: disinclined to do business with you in the future. So
7:20
Speaker 2: I think the integrity of the agent starts that conversation
7:23
Speaker 2: when he reveals that the player maybe wants to return
7:25
Speaker 2: to the team or join that team. The integrity then
7:28
Speaker 2: shifts to the general manager in that instance to handle
7:31
Speaker 2: that situation responsibly and still treat the player very fairly
7:35
Speaker 2: in the process.
7:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, on topic with that, because baseball is the only
7:39
Speaker 3: sport where kind of free agency drags out over the
7:41
Speaker 3: entire offseason. Give me your perfect scenario, things that could
7:45
Speaker 3: be implemented. Obviously things have to be collectively bargain. But
7:49
Speaker 3: how do we get free agency moving quicker? How is
7:52
Speaker 3: it putting a deadline on you free agents or trades
7:56
Speaker 3: or certain things. How do you see us as an
7:58
Speaker 3: industry making big baseball free agency exciting and quick? And
8:02
Speaker 3: then obviously you know there's gonna be some guys who linger,
8:04
Speaker 3: but let's get the majority of these guys signed so
8:07
Speaker 3: fans could get excited about these new players. Players can
8:09
Speaker 3: get acclimated, they can meet their teammates. As a player,
8:13
Speaker 3: I always felt like, you know, my first couple of
8:16
Speaker 3: years when I was with Toronto, I always worked out
8:18
Speaker 3: with this mindset that I was improving to help my team.
8:21
Speaker 3: It got harder for me when I was always a
8:23
Speaker 3: free agent. I was out there, I'm like, what am
8:25
Speaker 3: I training for? Like, obviously I want to be the
8:27
Speaker 3: best version myself, but I like this collective approach that like, man,
8:31
Speaker 3: I want to call one of my teammates and be like, hey,
8:32
Speaker 3: did you get in the gym today? Did you hit?
8:34
Speaker 3: Did you do this? It sucked, you know when you
8:36
Speaker 3: had to wait till, you know, middle of February to.
8:38
Speaker 2: Sign Well and Kevin, I'll add a few things to
8:41
Speaker 2: your comments, which I think are spot on. Is you know,
8:44
Speaker 2: when we're signing a guy like you or signing a
8:46
Speaker 2: guy like Todd, part of it is because of the leadership,
8:48
Speaker 2: the experience you have, the championship pedigree. So if you
8:52
Speaker 2: are coming on board February, you know, week before spring training,
8:56
Speaker 2: you're not able to really spread your knowledge and your
8:58
Speaker 2: wisdom to as guys and have as big of an impact.
9:02
Speaker 2: And also, my guess is you guys find that very
9:04
Speaker 2: fulfilling to help mentor guys. And if we're saying you
9:08
Speaker 2: can only start that process when you meet them in
9:09
Speaker 2: spring training, we're missing an opportunity. Another thing I would
9:13
Speaker 2: just add to the conversation is the fact that every
9:16
Speaker 2: club is investing so much in their spring training facilities.
9:19
Speaker 2: I think a lot of you guys now are coming
9:21
Speaker 2: down well in advance to spring training to work out
9:23
Speaker 2: there because the facilities are just so great, And so
9:26
Speaker 2: we're depriving you of the ability to get down there
9:29
Speaker 2: and also get to know some of your teammates, some
9:31
Speaker 2: of your coaches, some of the resources that will be
9:33
Speaker 2: around you. You're getting to know that as spring training
9:36
Speaker 2: begins or dare I say now a lot of guys
9:38
Speaker 2: who are signing well into spring training. It's just such
9:41
Speaker 2: a disadvantage. So I think there's a real dangerous situation
9:45
Speaker 2: going on in baseball right now, which is gms are
9:48
Speaker 2: trying to get the best deals they can, so tour
9:51
Speaker 2: agents agents believe if they wait longer, it'll be more
9:54
Speaker 2: deadline driven teams will have to capitulate and give more money.
9:58
Speaker 2: But then there's a tipping point in that you get
10:00
Speaker 2: past a certain date, the player and agent become a
10:02
Speaker 2: little bit compromised, and gms now are taking advantage of
10:05
Speaker 2: that and signing guys to you know, kind of deflated
10:08
Speaker 2: deals late into February, sometimes March, when guys are really
10:13
Speaker 2: needing to get back into camp and get back out
10:15
Speaker 2: on the field, and so they're in a compromise position.
10:18
Speaker 2: I think it's a terrible way to start a relationship. Furthermore,
10:21
Speaker 2: we're seeing from a performance standpoint, those players are missing
10:24
Speaker 2: out on spring training. There's something to do with the
10:26
Speaker 2: at bats. You guys get that, the reps, you guys
10:29
Speaker 2: that get on the mound just to get into shape.
10:31
Speaker 2: Those guys aren't having great aprils, some of them spilling
10:34
Speaker 2: into May, and so I think we're losing across the
10:37
Speaker 2: boards as an industry on all the fronts you mentioned, Kevin,
10:41
Speaker 2: and then additionally a few that I just brought up.
10:43
Speaker 2: So as a result, I love the thought of having
10:45
Speaker 2: some sort of deadline. Todd kind of referenced it. I
10:49
Speaker 2: think we should get back to the point where when
10:51
Speaker 2: you guys go and spend the holidays with your families
10:54
Speaker 2: and friends, you can tell them where you're going to
10:56
Speaker 2: play the next year, and where your kids may be
10:58
Speaker 2: going to school, and where you're looking for housing. So
11:01
Speaker 2: if we could somehow figure out a way, maybe it's
11:03
Speaker 2: not a hard and fast deadline too soon after the season,
11:07
Speaker 2: but surely by the end of December, we should all
11:09
Speaker 2: have a pretty good understanding of how good a fit
11:11
Speaker 2: of players for a team and a team is for
11:13
Speaker 2: that player. If we can accelerate decisions to be made
11:16
Speaker 2: in the calendar year such that you then can spend
11:19
Speaker 2: all of January February preparing with the team you're going
11:22
Speaker 2: to play for, ideally interacting with some of those teammates,
11:25
Speaker 2: sharing your wisdom, sharing your expertise. I think we all
11:29
Speaker 2: win from that.
11:31
Speaker 4: How about making a deadline at the Winter Meetings? Wouldn't
11:35
Speaker 4: that be helpful for a lot of guys to you know,
11:38
Speaker 4: get these free agents going a little.
11:40
Speaker 2: Bit well todd. That would reinvigorate the Winter Meetings, which
11:44
Speaker 2: right now, you know, we don't see a ton of
11:45
Speaker 2: signings there. Would It would be the off season spectacle
11:49
Speaker 2: that Major League Baseball wishes it was. You know, we
11:51
Speaker 2: have media all over the place there trying to break news,
11:55
Speaker 2: but they're really hunting for stories and they really are
11:58
Speaker 2: breaking a lot more rumors than they are signed. If
12:00
Speaker 2: we actually had a need to sign and agreed to
12:03
Speaker 2: terms with players, there, what an event that would be
12:06
Speaker 2: for Major League Baseball? We put in on it, on
12:08
Speaker 2: it on the map. Where's right now? It's just kind
12:10
Speaker 2: of a slow bleed to get through free agency, and
12:14
Speaker 2: I don't think it captures the fans interest like MLB
12:16
Speaker 2: would want it to.
12:20
Speaker 1: My next question, hold on, hold up real quick, because
12:23
Speaker 1: I want to jump in. Are you guys I'm just
12:25
Speaker 1: making sure here from the player perspective, are you guys
12:29
Speaker 1: good with like KP You're good? Everyone like you? You have
12:32
Speaker 1: to sign December eighth, I noise get taken care of,
12:36
Speaker 1: and then you just get to take it or leave
12:37
Speaker 1: it off, or versus doing a trade deadline at the
12:40
Speaker 1: winter meetings so that it can't be used as leverage
12:42
Speaker 1: and we can get the trade action done and then
12:44
Speaker 1: go to the signings.
12:45
Speaker 3: I think there's a I think it's got to be
12:47
Speaker 3: incentive driven. I don't think it's like a cutoff, like
12:49
Speaker 3: you can't sign, but maybe incentivized teams for signing players,
12:53
Speaker 3: Like maybe ninety percent of the deal counts against the
12:56
Speaker 3: CBT and you get a ten percent discount on you know, luxury,
13:00
Speaker 3: something along those lines. To incentivize teams where you know,
13:03
Speaker 3: if we're fighting over just you know, a year. I
13:06
Speaker 3: know year is a lot or you know, a couple
13:08
Speaker 3: million bucks, which sounds like a lot, but to a
13:09
Speaker 3: team it's not that much. But like, let's get the
13:12
Speaker 3: ball roving. Incentivized teams. Maybe it's a draft pick compensation
13:16
Speaker 3: if you sign a guy for X amount of years
13:18
Speaker 3: for certain amount of dollars, whatever it may be. You know,
13:20
Speaker 3: they're smarter people out there than me. But I think
13:23
Speaker 3: you incentivized teams and agents and players to sign by
13:26
Speaker 3: a certain date. So all those things that we talked about,
13:29
Speaker 3: being able to get in and meet your teammates and
13:32
Speaker 3: you know, get your family settled.
13:33
Speaker 4: You know.
13:33
Speaker 3: As a player who signed late, it was tough, you know,
13:36
Speaker 3: And I think about my my most recent experience with
13:38
Speaker 3: the Rangers. You know, part of the reason I got
13:40
Speaker 3: brought in was to be kind of a veteran guy,
13:43
Speaker 3: a leader, guy who's been there help out some of
13:45
Speaker 3: these younger guys. And the first time I'm meeting them,
13:47
Speaker 3: it's three or four days into spring training. I didn't
13:50
Speaker 3: have a lot of time. And obviously my time was
13:52
Speaker 3: short there. I got released, you know, a couple months
13:54
Speaker 3: into the season. But it felt like if I had
13:55
Speaker 3: an entire offseason living here in Dallas, I could have
13:58
Speaker 3: commuted down to arling in and you know, saw the
14:01
Speaker 3: guys and worked out and got to know the staff
14:03
Speaker 3: a little bit better. You know, maybe things would have
14:05
Speaker 3: turned out a little bit different. But you know, I
14:07
Speaker 3: don't think you could just put a deadline on, like
14:09
Speaker 3: if you don't sign your you're kicked out of baseball.
14:11
Speaker 3: I think it has to be incentive driven.
14:14
Speaker 2: How about this as an idea, guys, how about if
14:16
Speaker 2: you don't sign by specific date, the most you can
14:19
Speaker 2: sign for is like eighty percent of the qualifying offer,
14:22
Speaker 2: and it could be over two three years if you
14:24
Speaker 2: want to, or it could be all in one year.
14:25
Speaker 2: But like that's that's kind of now the cap for play.
14:30
Speaker 5: If you want the Yeah, But I just I think
14:34
Speaker 5: it's such an unrealistic ask when you're saying that, I
14:37
Speaker 5: mean that just gives you're coming from a long time
14:40
Speaker 5: executive side, that where that's a way for that side
14:43
Speaker 5: to squeeze guys, Like for me, why not do the
14:45
Speaker 5: incentive side which incentivizes team to actually be active versus
14:50
Speaker 5: them saying take it or leave it.
14:51
Speaker 1: If you wait until tomorrow, you're only going eighty percent
14:54
Speaker 1: of the qualifying offer. I just think that's a trash
14:57
Speaker 1: way to operate in a negotiation.
15:00
Speaker 2: I'm just assuming that the guys who are positioned to
15:02
Speaker 2: make one hundred plus million dollars, you know, enter trying
15:05
Speaker 2: to ecot one hundred and ten or signed for ninety
15:08
Speaker 2: Like I think executives would have to come to the
15:11
Speaker 2: table much more sincerely earlier in that process is what
15:14
Speaker 2: I would hope as well.
15:17
Speaker 1: Do you think that the incentive side is a good
15:19
Speaker 1: idea and that side ever go for it, okay, And
15:22
Speaker 1: what about the trade deadline? What about it? See to me,
15:26
Speaker 1: I think because I'm always trying to think that, I'm
15:27
Speaker 1: not trying to play like a player agent here. I'm
15:30
Speaker 1: just trying to defend the other side a little bit.
15:33
Speaker 1: My thing is I always try to think of what
15:35
Speaker 1: actually would get done in a negotiation, because anything that
15:38
Speaker 1: happens has to get agreed to from player and ownership side.
15:42
Speaker 1: For me, the thing that I actually think is realistic
15:44
Speaker 1: is the trade deadline. Right so on the player side,
15:47
Speaker 1: you're going to be happy with that. Players don't want
15:49
Speaker 1: to get traded in freaking February when they already think
15:51
Speaker 1: they're gone somewhere and then they get moved. Wipe the
15:54
Speaker 1: trades off the board. Let the first month or so
15:56
Speaker 1: of the offseason focus on what trades can happen, and
15:59
Speaker 1: then it's done. Now you can still do signings before that,
16:03
Speaker 1: but you can only sign players to advance yourself as
16:06
Speaker 1: a team for an x amount of time period. Of course,
16:09
Speaker 1: you're going to open up trades again, but we don't
16:11
Speaker 1: get that many trades at the beginning of the season anyway.
16:13
Speaker 1: So like, let's let's set this dead period where you
16:15
Speaker 1: can't trade players on a forty man roster.
16:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think it's a very sound concept.
16:22
Speaker 2: You know, As I said earlier, part of the reason
16:24
Speaker 2: we wait on free agency is because we have an alternative,
16:27
Speaker 2: which is going to the trade market. And part of
16:29
Speaker 2: the reason we wait on the trade market is because
16:31
Speaker 2: we have an alternative, which is free agency. So if
16:33
Speaker 2: you have tight windows in which you can only operate
16:36
Speaker 2: in one space, you're going to have to accelerate conversations
16:39
Speaker 2: in each of those spaces.
16:42
Speaker 4: It's a good it's a good one. Yeah, I said
16:46
Speaker 4: free agent. I meant to say trade deadline. I know
16:48
Speaker 4: that's what I came off. But this is very interesting.
16:51
Speaker 4: This is this should be the language and the banter
16:54
Speaker 4: back and forth with you know, the collective bargaining and
16:58
Speaker 4: everything else like these should be the tall and I
17:00
Speaker 4: hope that's what they're talking about, But there's other little
17:02
Speaker 4: things that they go through with.
17:04
Speaker 1: While we're at it. One more thad, can we trade
17:07
Speaker 1: draft picks too? Every other league gets to do that.
17:09
Speaker 1: I'm just coming from the fan perspective. All I care
17:11
Speaker 1: about that is activity.
17:12
Speaker 3: I've been saying it for a long time that I
17:15
Speaker 3: think it would help advance trades, you know, like and
17:18
Speaker 3: it's to my point too, Like I wanted to ask
17:20
Speaker 3: you about this too, and you know the trade that
17:23
Speaker 3: happened yesterday between the Red Sox and the Pirates. But
17:26
Speaker 3: we were just talking about teams covet prospects so much
17:30
Speaker 3: that at some point you have an abundance of them
17:32
Speaker 3: and you don't have enough room for them to you know,
17:34
Speaker 3: fill out your major league roster. At some point you
17:36
Speaker 3: got to trade them, Like what is what's the what
17:39
Speaker 3: is it the fear of that this prospect becomes this
17:41
Speaker 3: player that you drafted, developed and you hoped. But at
17:45
Speaker 3: some point I'd love to see teams like use their
17:48
Speaker 3: prospects and their draft picks to improve their major league
17:52
Speaker 3: roster because ultimately that's what, you know, makes everything work.
17:54
Speaker 3: If you have a productive major league team, everything else
17:57
Speaker 3: would kind of follow.
18:00
Speaker 2: And I think both these points kind of fall under
18:02
Speaker 2: a similar umbrella. For me, I would love to trade
18:04
Speaker 2: draft picks. We've talked about this as from the GM
18:07
Speaker 2: perspective at every GM meeting. I don't know why we
18:11
Speaker 2: haven't implemented that. I just strongly believe we should have
18:14
Speaker 2: every ability to try to build a championship organization. We
18:17
Speaker 2: shouldn't be restricted like we currently are. I would take
18:20
Speaker 2: a lot of the safeguards off of the draft. I
18:22
Speaker 2: would take it off of trading draft picks. I just
18:24
Speaker 2: think teams should be able to spend money where they
18:27
Speaker 2: want to spend money to try to build championship organizations.
18:30
Speaker 2: Let's let teams be as creative as possible. Let's not
18:33
Speaker 2: restrict creativity whatsoever. And then, Kevin, with regards to your point,
18:38
Speaker 2: I do think there's a little bit of that fear
18:39
Speaker 2: that that prospect turns into the next role six, role seven,
18:43
Speaker 2: role eight player, the guy who's the perennial All Star,
18:46
Speaker 2: the guy who's the goal glover or the silver slugger.
18:49
Speaker 2: But then I also think GM's probably put a little
18:51
Speaker 2: bit too much onus on this notion of service time.
18:54
Speaker 2: And so you know, yesterday's trade was really fascinating because
18:57
Speaker 2: you trade a premium position player prospect who they're going
19:00
Speaker 2: to control for the next six years for a really
19:03
Speaker 2: solid major league starting pitcher who you can control for
19:07
Speaker 2: two years. And so you know, that is a very
19:10
Speaker 2: calculated decision on both sides parts, and that's why Boston
19:13
Speaker 2: probably receives additional value in this deal because they're giving
19:16
Speaker 2: up six years of control for two. That's always a
19:19
Speaker 2: challenge as well, because that's how you gain cost control
19:22
Speaker 2: in the game. Is for every guy you're signing to
19:25
Speaker 2: a deal that is, you know, fifteen plus million dollars,
19:27
Speaker 2: you have to have four to five guys making the
19:29
Speaker 2: major league minimum to balance out your payroll by and large,
19:31
Speaker 2: and if you have one that is competing at a
19:34
Speaker 2: very high level, they're worth so much value to the team.
19:37
Speaker 2: So there is this balancing act of like how much
19:40
Speaker 2: of your future value are you sacrificing to try to
19:43
Speaker 2: win today. An addition that I would just bring up is,
19:47
Speaker 2: you know, I think so many general managers are so
19:49
Speaker 2: intelligent today, but one of the things we may be
19:52
Speaker 2: missing is just that kind of that thirst to win.
19:55
Speaker 2: And I think we all know the general managers who
19:57
Speaker 2: are super aggressive out there, who are willing to try
20:00
Speaker 2: those prospects in the name of trying to win today.
20:02
Speaker 2: I think they are more general managers out there who
20:04
Speaker 2: want to play it safe and want to keep their
20:07
Speaker 2: prospects for the future to give a chance to win
20:11
Speaker 2: in the future. They're not necessarily willing to forego the
20:14
Speaker 2: chance to win today. I think there's a little bit
20:16
Speaker 2: of an imbalance in the general managers today. When I
20:19
Speaker 2: started in the game, you know, the average GM was
20:21
Speaker 2: kind of the Kevin Towers, Dave Dombrowski, Jim Hendry types
20:24
Speaker 2: of guys. Omar Minaya, Jim Bowden. These guys were going
20:28
Speaker 2: forward at all the time, and they wore that on
20:30
Speaker 2: their sleeves. Now, I think guys are a lot more
20:32
Speaker 2: reserved about that, and they're playing for you know, not
20:34
Speaker 2: only for tomorrow, but they're also playing for three, five,
20:37
Speaker 2: ten years down the road. I think we need some
20:39
Speaker 2: more general managers with a little bit more short term
20:41
Speaker 2: goals to be able to drive some of those types
20:44
Speaker 2: of deals. Otherwise they're going to hold onto those prospects
20:47
Speaker 2: in the name of trying to win down the road.
20:50
Speaker 4: Preach Datt, that last part was money right there. Last
20:54
Speaker 4: question for May I'm a shift gears here, Ron Washington,
20:58
Speaker 4: what do you think that? I mean, he's been around
20:59
Speaker 4: the block, he's been everywhere as well, loved. I mean,
21:02
Speaker 4: what do you think he'll bring to the Giants moving forward?
21:05
Speaker 1: Here?
21:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, Todd, I'm glad you brought up. He is one
21:08
Speaker 2: of my biggest friends and mentors in the game. Just
21:11
Speaker 2: a spectacular human being. Anyone who's touched this guy knows
21:15
Speaker 2: that he just loves the game of baseball at such
21:18
Speaker 2: a high level. He's not a glass half full guy.
21:20
Speaker 2: He's the water's brimming over. He is tremendous. I've never
21:25
Speaker 2: seen a guy who has the impact he has on
21:28
Speaker 2: the morale of a team. Just nobody was ever down
21:32
Speaker 2: when wash was in the clubhouse. He genuinely believed and
21:35
Speaker 2: he espoused when he was the manager of the Texas Rangers,
21:38
Speaker 2: give us the double a roster tank, We're going to
21:40
Speaker 2: kick somebody's butt. And that's basically what he said. Never
21:43
Speaker 2: once in his tenure with the Rangers did he ever
21:45
Speaker 2: come up to me or John Daniels and say, Hey,
21:47
Speaker 2: this guy can't play here or he's not good enough.
21:50
Speaker 2: He always embraced the best that every player had to
21:53
Speaker 2: offer and put them in the ultimate position to succeed.
21:56
Speaker 2: In addition to that, guys, I think he's the best
21:59
Speaker 2: infield I've ever been around. I've heard great things about
22:02
Speaker 2: Perry Hill and a few guys, but he was the
22:04
Speaker 2: best guy I've ever witnessed. He's a great base running guy,
22:07
Speaker 2: tremendous third base coach. I know we won't be doing
22:10
Speaker 2: that for the Giants, but in today's day and age,
22:12
Speaker 2: I'm not sure how many competitive advantages you get from
22:16
Speaker 2: your working coaches you unequivocally do that from Wash. You
22:19
Speaker 2: see what he's how he's impacted every team's defense that
22:23
Speaker 2: he has been part of. You know, Marcus Simeon, Eric Chavez,
22:27
Speaker 2: oz Alby's, all of these guys give him so much
22:30
Speaker 2: credit for becoming the Gold Globe players that they became.
22:34
Speaker 2: And I think on top of that, he's just such
22:36
Speaker 2: a effervescent, spectacular human. So does San Francisco. Giants obviously
22:41
Speaker 2: have a very good left side of the infield. You've
22:43
Speaker 2: got Raphael Devers potentially moving to first base. What better
22:47
Speaker 2: guy to come in and not only make him an
22:49
Speaker 2: average first basement, but if there's anybody out there who
22:52
Speaker 2: can make him an above average first basement, it would
22:54
Speaker 2: be Wash. One of their best prospects, Eldridge is going
22:57
Speaker 2: to be coming up at some point soon. Wash will
22:59
Speaker 2: help him, yet to be determined what they're going to
23:02
Speaker 2: do at second base. He's also going to help the
23:04
Speaker 2: veterans on the left side. Chapman's obviously a perennial Gold
23:07
Speaker 2: Glove domas solid above average defender at short But he's
23:10
Speaker 2: going to help those guys. I think he's going to
23:12
Speaker 2: help the guys in the field. He's going to also
23:14
Speaker 2: help the swagger and attitude in the clubhouse. This is
23:17
Speaker 2: a guy who believes he is going to be a champion.
23:20
Speaker 2: Every time he sets foot on the field. It exudes
23:24
Speaker 2: to all the players around him. He is going to
23:26
Speaker 2: be a huge advantage for the San Francisco Giants.
23:29
Speaker 3: All right, last one for me too. Rockies kind of
23:32
Speaker 3: went out and made a let's just call it an
23:34
Speaker 3: interesting hire. What are the Rockies kind of building with
23:37
Speaker 3: who they brought in?
23:39
Speaker 2: So, you know, Paul is a exceptionally intelligent individual. He
23:44
Speaker 2: and I happened to grow up in the same neighborhood,
23:46
Speaker 2: played high school baseball against each other, so I've known
23:49
Speaker 2: him for quite some time. You know, I think he
23:51
Speaker 2: gets a lot of credit and credit deserved for being
23:54
Speaker 2: on the advent of bringing analytics into baseball. He had
23:58
Speaker 2: a great career in baseball then left to spend ten
24:01
Speaker 2: years in the NFL, so I think he comes back
24:03
Speaker 2: to baseball even more polished. He's got some additional ideas
24:08
Speaker 2: he's going to have about building a championship team. As
24:11
Speaker 2: you guys know, playing in Colorado is probably the biggest
24:14
Speaker 2: Rubik's cube in all of professional sports. Trying to help
24:18
Speaker 2: turn altitude from what is now one of the biggest
24:21
Speaker 2: atturns to the biggest competitive advantages. And if someone can
24:24
Speaker 2: figure that out, that team has a chance to have
24:27
Speaker 2: a tremendous run, because I think people will be very
24:30
Speaker 2: concerned about having to go play there, especially in playoff
24:33
Speaker 2: type settings. So I think Paul is an extremely intelligent guy.
24:36
Speaker 2: No stone will be left unturned. He's going to be
24:38
Speaker 2: researching altitude from every single angle. And then he partners
24:42
Speaker 2: up with a guy named Josh Burns, who has had
24:44
Speaker 2: a tremendous career in the game. Another good friend of mine.
24:48
Speaker 2: Josh and I went to college together, played baseball in
24:50
Speaker 2: college together, and he got me my first job working
24:53
Speaker 2: for the Colorado Rockies. Josh has been a general manager
24:55
Speaker 2: twice over He's been to the World Series eight times.
24:58
Speaker 2: He has won four of them, one with the Red Sox,
25:00
Speaker 2: three with the Dodgers. He's been instrumental in building out
25:04
Speaker 2: the player development and amateur scouting side for the Dodgers.
25:07
Speaker 2: He's going to bring that knowledge and acum into the
25:09
Speaker 2: Colorado Rockies. I think the Rockies are in great hands
25:12
Speaker 2: right now. Now. The question is what additional changes are
25:15
Speaker 2: they able to make and how will they invest in
25:18
Speaker 2: the players and staff on the field to compliment what
25:21
Speaker 2: Josh and Paul are doing in the front office.
25:24
Speaker 1: All right, that last one, and I think this is
25:27
Speaker 1: a fascinating topic that you would have great insight on,
25:30
Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about it right after you
25:32
Speaker 1: leave us. There was an article in The Athletic yesterday
25:35
Speaker 1: called Inside How MLB teams evaluate player makeup from top
25:39
Speaker 1: prospects to big time free agents. It is written by
25:42
Speaker 1: Enosarus and Chandler Rome. It is sparked by an interesting
25:45
Speaker 1: case from Barbaldez had a very public incident that he
25:49
Speaker 1: has a side of a story to most people saw
25:51
Speaker 1: and it looks like he was throwing at his catcher, right,
25:53
Speaker 1: and that sparks the whole makeup conversation. So I'm curious
25:56
Speaker 1: your thoughts on how you would handle a player like that.
25:59
Speaker 1: And we got some inside on how there's videos that
26:01
Speaker 1: are sent out which is pretty common from free agents,
26:02
Speaker 1: and they put a lot in there about his characters.
26:05
Speaker 1: So how do front offices evaluate that? And you know this, right,
26:10
Speaker 1: I'm not speaking for your group, but there are some
26:12
Speaker 1: front offices sometimes that miss where like I'm pretty on
26:15
Speaker 1: the outside and I'll hear like that guy is not
26:19
Speaker 1: good news, and it's like, why did the acquirements? Someone
26:21
Speaker 1: will say to me that team doesn't do good enough
26:23
Speaker 1: homework on makeup.
26:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Scott's a great question, and you know, I
26:27
Speaker 2: think it's multi layers. So I just would say this is,
26:31
Speaker 2: you know, I think there's some teams that are very
26:32
Speaker 2: model driven in their decision making, and the bottom line
26:35
Speaker 2: is makeup doesn't really show up well in models. It's
26:38
Speaker 2: not empirical, it's a little bit softer, it's a little
26:41
Speaker 2: more subjective than it is objective. So when you talk about,
26:45
Speaker 2: you know, an eyebrow raised by you guys, when you
26:47
Speaker 2: see a guy sign and you're like, wow, that doesn't
26:49
Speaker 2: seem as if it's going to align, well, it's probably
26:52
Speaker 2: with a team that really isn't putting a ton of
26:54
Speaker 2: value on makeup at all because it's not measurable. I think,
26:58
Speaker 2: in contrast, one thing, I've been Party two and I've
27:01
Speaker 2: been so fortunate in both Texas and Minnesota. One thing
27:04
Speaker 2: that we did is we employed former major league players
27:07
Speaker 2: to really help us sort through this discussion. So in Minnesota,
27:11
Speaker 2: two of our first hires when we got there were
27:13
Speaker 2: LaTroy Hawkins and Tory Hunter. We then eventually added Justin
27:16
Speaker 2: Mornau and Michael Couldiere to the group. And so what
27:19
Speaker 2: we would do is we would give them a list
27:21
Speaker 2: of free agents and say, hey, guys, based upon your
27:23
Speaker 2: personal experience and or your friends in the game, can
27:27
Speaker 2: you find out what is it like to go shoulder
27:29
Speaker 2: to shoulder with this guy in a clubhouse, What is
27:31
Speaker 2: he like on the field, what does he like when
27:34
Speaker 2: things get tough, because we wanted to get firsthand experience
27:38
Speaker 2: and knowledge on those things rather than us speculating. I
27:41
Speaker 2: think it's really tough for scouts to break this down
27:44
Speaker 2: because sometimes we see a guy who hits a pop
27:46
Speaker 2: up in the infield and he doesn't run it out,
27:48
Speaker 2: and also we ascribe all sorts of negative attributes to them.
27:51
Speaker 2: It turns out that has nothing to do with it.
27:53
Speaker 2: So we want to talk to players who've either played
27:56
Speaker 2: with those guys and been in the clubhouse with him,
27:58
Speaker 2: or who can access players or coaches who have been
28:01
Speaker 2: in the clubhouse with him to find out exactly what's
28:03
Speaker 2: going on with these guys, so there's no surprises when
28:06
Speaker 2: we acquire them, and with ram Berveldes specifically, you know,
28:10
Speaker 2: it's such a fascinating case. I actually had a chance
28:13
Speaker 2: to work with Ulysses Cabrera's agent this offseason because I
28:16
Speaker 2: am an independent person right now. He asked my opinion
28:19
Speaker 2: of how our front office is going to perceive him.
28:23
Speaker 2: He did put together a video as you reference God,
28:25
Speaker 2: and the video is fascinating because usually these videos are
28:28
Speaker 2: hype performance videos. This is actually a twenty minute video
28:31
Speaker 2: which really gives you insights into who Cranburvel does is
28:35
Speaker 2: where did he grow up, what is his family like?
28:37
Speaker 2: You know, it's the classic story of a guy growing
28:40
Speaker 2: up in a household with no electricity and no running
28:42
Speaker 2: water and really having to fight for everything throughout his life.
28:46
Speaker 2: It really put the person in perspective, and I think
28:49
Speaker 2: for teams that genuinely care about that this will be
28:52
Speaker 2: a video that will probably open their eyes. For teams
28:55
Speaker 2: that maybe put less of an emphasis on makeup, it
28:57
Speaker 2: may not matter whatsoever, but the reality is, this guy's
29:00
Speaker 2: been a really, really good performer for quite some time.
29:03
Speaker 2: Hits the market a little bit older than some free agents,
29:05
Speaker 2: but no fault of his own. This was because the
29:08
Speaker 2: Houston Astros probably tried to do a few things on
29:10
Speaker 2: the front end to extend his tenure with them. He's
29:13
Speaker 2: a year older, but he is one of these guys,
29:16
Speaker 2: who is, you know, throwing six seven innings every single
29:19
Speaker 2: time he goes out there. I think that's going to
29:21
Speaker 2: get the attention of teams. They're all going to ask
29:24
Speaker 2: him what happened that night when he crossed up the catcher.
29:26
Speaker 2: As long as I think he's accountable, contrite and sincere
29:30
Speaker 2: about his answer, hopefully he will be put in a
29:33
Speaker 2: position where the teams can look past that and he'll
29:36
Speaker 2: find the perfect team and the perfect fit for him
29:38
Speaker 2: to continue to showcase his talents on the mound.
29:41
Speaker 1: That's great insight. I didn't know you worked with the team.
29:44
Speaker 1: Even more interesting to hear how that all works. And yeah,
29:48
Speaker 1: I mean it's obvious, it's not in this case something
29:50
Speaker 1: that is hidden because the one incident was very public.
29:54
Speaker 1: So it's cool to hear what goes on behind the
29:56
Speaker 1: scenes to then say, hey, one thing happened for one
29:59
Speaker 1: second about the other billion seconds that this guy exists
30:03
Speaker 1: around your team and what that's going to look like.
30:05
Speaker 2: So yeah, well, in Scott, I just would toss it
30:08
Speaker 2: to the players here for a second, Like I always
30:10
Speaker 2: felt in my career when I was evaluating a situation,
30:13
Speaker 2: if a guy was genuinely contrite about what happened, if
30:17
Speaker 2: there was a transgression. And I come from a team
30:20
Speaker 2: where we traded for Josh Hamilton, we signed Matt Bush,
30:25
Speaker 2: these guys had done some things in their lives which
30:27
Speaker 2: were challenging, to say the least. Both of those guys
30:31
Speaker 2: were genuinely accountable to their actions. They were contrite about that,
30:35
Speaker 2: and they were aspirational of doing better. And one of
30:38
Speaker 2: the litmus tests I always talked about was can this
30:40
Speaker 2: person stand in front of a sixth, eighth, or tenth
30:43
Speaker 2: grade class of students and say, hey, listen, I made mistakes.
30:46
Speaker 2: Here were my mistakes, here's what I learned from them.
30:49
Speaker 2: Don't do what I did. And if they can do that,
30:51
Speaker 2: then we're in position. We all want to forgive guys, right,
30:54
Speaker 2: we want to give them second chances, provided that they're
30:57
Speaker 2: genuinely accountable for what transpired.
31:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, oh, go ahead, Todd.
31:02
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I mean, honestly, I think at the end
31:04
Speaker 4: of the day, we don't know what he was going through. Uh,
31:07
Speaker 4: people make mistakes. It's how you come back from it.
31:10
Speaker 4: And you give somebody an extra mistake or two, and
31:14
Speaker 4: you see how they come back from and listen, it
31:18
Speaker 4: looked bad, of course it did on TV. You saw
31:20
Speaker 4: what he did. It looked like everything was on purpose,
31:22
Speaker 4: blah blah blah. But guess what, do you know the person.
31:25
Speaker 4: Do you know what he was going through that day?
31:27
Speaker 4: Was there something on his mind? Okay, then let's get
31:29
Speaker 4: to know the guy first before you make judgment. Of course,
31:32
Speaker 4: love it.
31:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I couldn't agree anymore. I think a
31:37
Speaker 3: lot of bringing guys into an organization, to your point,
31:40
Speaker 3: And I feel like I'd be a perfect guy for
31:42
Speaker 3: that job that you were speaking of because I played
31:45
Speaker 3: on ten teams. I played with so many different guys.
31:47
Speaker 3: It's hard to judge a guy off of one moment
31:50
Speaker 3: in their career. To Scott's point, that's one second of
31:52
Speaker 3: the billion second s he's lived on Earth. You know,
31:56
Speaker 3: some of these guys, you have no idea where they
31:58
Speaker 3: came from, how they grew up, what they did you know,
32:01
Speaker 3: personally speaking, I had a moment in my career that
32:04
Speaker 3: you know, was the lowest the lows. And if people
32:06
Speaker 3: want to judge me for that one moment in time
32:10
Speaker 3: where I made a mistake, so be it. But if
32:14
Speaker 3: you ask anyone that I played with or that I've
32:15
Speaker 3: been in contact with, coaches, front office players, they tell
32:19
Speaker 3: you that was just, you know, a moment of weakness.
32:22
Speaker 3: I grew from it. I stood up, I was accountable
32:24
Speaker 3: for what I did. I moved on. I did everything
32:27
Speaker 3: I had to do in order to make it right
32:28
Speaker 3: with the group of people that I offended and that
32:31
Speaker 3: I was hurt from. But it would kill me if
32:33
Speaker 3: people still judge me for a moment on the field,
32:36
Speaker 3: in the most competitive environment where I had a moment
32:39
Speaker 3: of weakness. You know, And for Framber, he's been an
32:42
Speaker 3: outstanding picture. To me, what he did is totally forgivable.
32:47
Speaker 3: It was a moment of a weakness, a lapse in judgment.
32:51
Speaker 3: But he shouldn't be defined by, you know, the one
32:54
Speaker 3: moment of his career. He's been way too valuable of
32:58
Speaker 3: a picture to your point, what he brings. He's been
33:02
Speaker 3: in an organization that's been you know, aside from maybe
33:05
Speaker 3: the Dodgers kind of the gold standard of being in
33:09
Speaker 3: a competitive environment and building a culture. So hopefully people
33:14
Speaker 3: will either watch this video or go out and do
33:17
Speaker 3: their research. I've been a part of a lot of
33:19
Speaker 3: organizations where a GM will come down or is always
33:22
Speaker 3: present around the trade deadline and he'll straight up be like, Hey,
33:26
Speaker 3: we're thinking about getting this guy. What have you heard
33:28
Speaker 3: on him? Have you played with him? What's he like?
33:31
Speaker 3: They want to go down? Is he going to fit
33:33
Speaker 3: in this clubhouse?
33:34
Speaker 4: You know?
33:34
Speaker 3: And if the answer is yes, he's gonna fit in.
33:36
Speaker 3: And if the answer is like, you know, he's a
33:38
Speaker 3: little bit difficult to handle. But I think what we've
33:41
Speaker 3: created in this clubhouse is enough to kind of bring
33:44
Speaker 3: him in and he's not going to be a distraction
33:46
Speaker 3: because the talent is so great. You bring a guy
33:48
Speaker 3: in and you know, people could change depending on their
33:51
Speaker 3: environment and the people are around, they can improve, you know.
33:54
Speaker 3: So hopefully this is just a blip on the radar
33:56
Speaker 3: for him, something we're not talking about, you know, once
33:59
Speaker 3: he signs and just allow his body of work to
34:02
Speaker 3: go kind of speak for him.
34:04
Speaker 2: Well, Kevin, I'll add one thing to what you just said.
34:06
Speaker 2: There which is one thing we did in addition to
34:09
Speaker 2: talking to some of our leaders. When we're talking about
34:11
Speaker 2: bringing a guy into the clubhouse, we went and talked
34:13
Speaker 2: to the visiting clubhouse manager and we asked him, Hey,
34:17
Speaker 2: how does this guy conduct himself in the clubhouse? How
34:20
Speaker 2: does he interact with the clubs? You know, these are
34:23
Speaker 2: guys who are you know, he doesn't have to look
34:26
Speaker 2: up to them. He can treat them however they want to.
34:29
Speaker 2: And it's fascinating revealing how players interacted with clubhouse guys.
34:34
Speaker 2: And we canceled trades based upon what we heard from
34:37
Speaker 2: our visiting clubhouse guy in terms of the character we
34:40
Speaker 2: thought that the player may have based upon how he
34:43
Speaker 2: may be mistreated some people in the clubhouse. And we've
34:46
Speaker 2: also enhanced our interest in players based upon the leadership
34:50
Speaker 2: that they showed in the clubhouse. So I think players
34:53
Speaker 2: should understand we're trying to do our homework. We're trying
34:56
Speaker 2: to get the best information we can. But the age
34:59
Speaker 2: old discussion, hey somebody's always looking, I think is somewhat true,
35:03
Speaker 2: Like how do you conduct yourself when you think nobody's looking?
35:06
Speaker 2: Is part of how we're evaluating you. And then the
35:09
Speaker 2: last thing I'll say, is we preach to our kids
35:12
Speaker 2: all the time. You're not defined by the adversity, but
35:14
Speaker 2: you're defined by how you respond to the university. We
35:16
Speaker 2: should afford our teammates the same luxury we afford our children.
35:21
Speaker 1: I like that, and I like bringing in players to help,
35:24
Speaker 1: and players that like the ones you're looking at on
35:27
Speaker 1: the screen here, because if they're doing podcasts and digital
35:30
Speaker 1: shows and they're just delivering real talk all the time,
35:32
Speaker 1: it's good. You don't want a fluff guy that's just
35:34
Speaker 1: gonna be like, yeah, everyone's okay, Like you need somebody
35:36
Speaker 1: who's going to tell you, hey, this is really how
35:38
Speaker 1: this guy is. So I like that that. This was great.
35:41
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. Great to catch up with you again.
35:44
Speaker 1: Totally different combo this way, without the catchers. They'll probably
35:47
Speaker 1: be back next time we chat. But encouraging everyone also
35:50
Speaker 1: to check out your new show, Rosters to rings, check
35:53
Speaker 1: out the pod wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks dad,
35:55
Speaker 1: good to talk to you.
35:57
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on guys. Always a pleasure.
36:00
Speaker 1: That's that Levine, longtime baseball executive. Let's just bring this
36:03
Speaker 1: in for a couple minutes to wrap it up, because
36:06
Speaker 1: it does come from that article guys, specifically on Framberbaldez KP.
36:11
Speaker 1: You provided a great context on what happened and how
36:15
Speaker 1: you personally feel like you're someone that would forgive the
36:18
Speaker 1: situation look at it as a one off. The way
36:21
Speaker 1: our world works nowadays is something like that goes viral
36:24
Speaker 1: and somebody just I don't want to say, cancels them forever,
36:27
Speaker 1: but they're like, oh, I would never want him on
36:28
Speaker 1: my team, And hey, I get a little drastic sometimes
36:31
Speaker 1: like that. I'm not going to lie, right, I didn't play,
36:33
Speaker 1: So I'm looking at it from a different sphere. I'm
36:35
Speaker 1: trying to look at it as if I own a
36:37
Speaker 1: team and he costs one hundred and fifty million dollars?
36:41
Speaker 1: Am I okay with that? I'm not saying, hey, am
36:43
Speaker 1: I going to have another incident just like that? But
36:46
Speaker 1: is the character in line?
36:47
Speaker 2: Right?
36:47
Speaker 1: Is this guy somebody that I feel like I can trust?
36:50
Speaker 1: That's not going to be a problem because we know
36:52
Speaker 1: that he's a good pitcher, we know that he can
36:53
Speaker 1: pitch in a playoff game, we know that he can
36:55
Speaker 1: be a number one or two starter for a team
36:57
Speaker 1: for the next several years. But how do you think
36:59
Speaker 1: it owner looks at that look it.
37:02
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't want to get into specific names here,
37:05
Speaker 3: but there there are people employed by teams, players that
37:10
Speaker 3: have done a lot worse. And you know, it's recent news.
37:15
Speaker 3: So and obviously the timing for him would never would
37:19
Speaker 3: have been good. But for his own individual you know,
37:23
Speaker 3: free agency, the timing couldn't be any worse. If this
37:26
Speaker 3: was four or five years ago, people are probably talking
37:28
Speaker 3: about it. The only reason it's still relevant is he
37:30
Speaker 3: recently did it. He's about to be a free agent,
37:33
Speaker 3: so you have to factor that in. But you know,
37:36
Speaker 3: to that's point, you know, we we should give people
37:39
Speaker 3: a little bit more grace. We should give people the
37:42
Speaker 3: ability to go out make an apology if it's sincere,
37:46
Speaker 3: give him a give them an opportunity to to to
37:48
Speaker 3: prove people wrong. And teams are not dumb. Teams are
37:51
Speaker 3: going out and doing their homework. Much to his point,
37:53
Speaker 3: and I love that conversation, being able to get into
37:56
Speaker 3: the mind of a GM and hear all these sort
37:58
Speaker 3: of things, you know, the visiting clubhouse guy, the travel secretary,
38:02
Speaker 3: your nutrition's, your chefs, all these people they're gonna reach
38:07
Speaker 3: out to. You know, I in my opinion alex Anthopolis
38:10
Speaker 3: is one of the best gms in baseball because he's
38:12
Speaker 3: so real. He comes and talks to his players. And
38:14
Speaker 3: when I was in Atlanta, when I was in Toronto,
38:17
Speaker 3: most recently in Atlanta, these things would come up all
38:20
Speaker 3: the time. You know, hey, we're thinking about getting this guy.
38:22
Speaker 3: He would come sit at you know, launch or dinner
38:24
Speaker 3: with four or five of us and be like, hey,
38:26
Speaker 3: I know you played with this guy. What do you
38:28
Speaker 3: got on him? Will he fit in? You know I
38:30
Speaker 3: heard this. Do you think that's true? You know I
38:32
Speaker 3: talked to this person, you know, so it's really it
38:36
Speaker 3: is an important factor. But I don't think any one
38:39
Speaker 3: player should be defined by any moment on the field.
38:42
Speaker 3: Give him a chance to explain himself. And like you said,
38:45
Speaker 3: you've never walked them out on any one of these shoes.
38:46
Speaker 3: You have no idea what this guy had come, where
38:49
Speaker 3: he had come from, the amount of adversity had faced
38:51
Speaker 3: in his life for him to be judged on this
38:54
Speaker 3: one cross up of his picture, where yes, it did
38:57
Speaker 3: look very intentional. You could look on the face that
38:59
Speaker 3: he was obviously upset with, you know, maybe the way
39:02
Speaker 3: he was calling a game. But this guy grew up
39:04
Speaker 3: in a place that didn't have running water, probably slept
39:06
Speaker 3: on the floor. Like, let that be kind of the
39:09
Speaker 3: foundation of this guy's character more than this moment that
39:12
Speaker 3: kind of went viral.
39:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good insight. And hey, my last point on
39:17
Speaker 1: this It says in the article eighty seconds into a
39:19
Speaker 1: twenty five minute video, the content switches from on field
39:21
Speaker 1: results to flushing out what kind of person Bramberbaldez is.
39:25
Speaker 2: That's cool.
39:25
Speaker 1: I'm just like, whoa twenty five minutes? We're doing a
39:29
Speaker 1: Netflix stock Let's let's maybe pair it down a little bit.
39:32
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're going to keep tod Father
39:34
Speaker 1: on twenty five minutes on anything? Right?
39:36
Speaker 2: Nope?
39:36
Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, Yeah.
39:38
Speaker 1: What's the what's the sweet spot? Top Father?
39:40
Speaker 2: Maybe five?
39:40
Speaker 1: Can I get five out of you? If it's a
39:42
Speaker 1: good story.
39:43
Speaker 4: Now you didn't get me, you give me eight to twelve? Okay?
39:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, me talked to you to this to this point too, Like,
39:49
Speaker 3: I mean, we talked about a guy poping up of
39:52
Speaker 3: the infield and jogging down the first base like that.
39:56
Speaker 3: People don't know the the entirety of you know, what
39:59
Speaker 3: a player is going through, Like there's a lot of
40:01
Speaker 3: times you're playing banged up and you've been told, hey,
40:03
Speaker 3: don't run hard down the line. I mean, I know
40:05
Speaker 3: that's a microcosm of you know, what was happening, but
40:08
Speaker 3: like we're just so quick to judge players from what
40:12
Speaker 3: we see and what is put on Twitter or Instagram
40:15
Speaker 3: and it becomes these viral moments. But there's so much
40:18
Speaker 3: that goes on behind the scenes. Like you know, you
40:21
Speaker 3: could have a newborn at home and not have a
40:23
Speaker 3: lot of sleep, and you could just you know, not
40:25
Speaker 3: be in your right mind and go out and do
40:27
Speaker 3: something and you're judged for It's like, at the end
40:30
Speaker 3: of the day, we're human beings. We have emotions, we
40:32
Speaker 3: have problems outside the field, we have lives outside the field.
40:36
Speaker 3: Like things happen, you know, but if you can stand
40:39
Speaker 3: up and maybe that was maybe to his fault he
40:42
Speaker 3: didn't get in front of the camera after that happened
40:44
Speaker 3: and said, hey, I made a mistake. It was a
40:47
Speaker 3: lapse of judgment, you know, like I wasn't vibing with
40:49
Speaker 3: my catcher, I was upset, I made a mistake or
40:53
Speaker 3: I got crossed up. I don't know what the scenario was,
40:55
Speaker 3: but the fact that he hasn't answered those questions. You know,
40:58
Speaker 3: maybe that's you know, maybe the bigger story here, but
41:01
Speaker 3: it's not what he did, you know, allow people an
41:03
Speaker 3: opportunity to kind of, you know, have a comeback story.
41:09
Speaker 1: That's my only thing, guys. I know we got to run,
41:11
Speaker 1: but it's hard when you didn't get the public apology,
41:15
Speaker 1: kind of got the denial and maybe things happened behind
41:17
Speaker 1: the scenes, but it helps, like it would help him.
41:20
Speaker 1: I know it sucks and maybe I'm wrong here, guys,
41:23
Speaker 1: but everyone that looked at the video kind of feels
41:25
Speaker 1: the same way. I wish that he would have just
41:27
Speaker 1: come out or even now and said, like, I messed up,
41:30
Speaker 1: I'm a human. Can you feel me on this one?
41:33
Speaker 1: I apologize like forgive me to the public and forever,
41:36
Speaker 1: and I think it would have played out better.
41:38
Speaker 2: That's me.
41:39
Speaker 1: I think people do give forgiveness, but it seemed like
41:42
Speaker 1: there was a denial at the time and we've never
41:44
Speaker 1: really gotten it. I'm sure the conversation's different with teams,
41:47
Speaker 1: but that's the main issue I have. Do you guys
41:49
Speaker 1: feel me on that one?
41:50
Speaker 2: Like if he just.
41:51
Speaker 1: Comes back and says that that part I think makes
41:53
Speaker 1: it easier it's hard to look at the video and
41:55
Speaker 1: be like that was a cross up. That was a
41:57
Speaker 1: real genuine cross up.
41:59
Speaker 4: It's because and I think the biggest issue of the
42:02
Speaker 4: whole thing, and I'll just button it up, it's because
42:04
Speaker 4: he did it to his own teammate. You know. It
42:06
Speaker 4: wasn't like, it wasn't like he did it to somebody
42:08
Speaker 4: he didn't like, you know, he did like, what was
42:11
Speaker 4: that about? And that's something that'll stick with him, you know.
42:13
Speaker 4: And there's far more horror stories. Don't get me wrong.
42:16
Speaker 4: The guy's okay, it could have been much worse, don't
42:19
Speaker 4: get me wrong. But yes, he did it to his
42:22
Speaker 4: own teammate. And that's that's the problem that people are
42:25
Speaker 4: going to have with