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The 60-Second Mindset Shift · More Than Before

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Coming up on more than before. It clicked for me right there.
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The fulfillment that I experienced helping him be
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better was so much sweeter than any fulfillment that I had from
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my own success. The first time where I really
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helped someone else have a light bulb go off in their mind and
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then see their performance increase because of it, Mess
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multiplied in terms of the fulfillment that I experienced.
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Once you've tasted significance, success will never satisfy.
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Hey everyone, what does it take to launch multiple best selling
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books, lead one of the world's most trusted leadership brands
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and still stay rooted in family and faith?
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Well, my guest today has done that.
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He is the Executive Vice President of Maxwell Leadership,
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in charge of publishing, content development, talent management
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and also acquisition. He has helped launch 6 USA TODAY
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best selling books as well as a New York Times best selling
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book. But beyond professional titles,
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he's a husband, a father, a leader who lives out that
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progress is better than perfection.
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He is a leader of leaders when it comes to humility and truly
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living out of life. That is more than before.
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Jared Cagle, it is an honor to have you on.
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Brother. How are you today?
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I don't know. I need to go.
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I need to go somewhere and put that on replay for the days
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where I'm struggling and really feeling down about myself.
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Nathan, you're the ultimate hype man, my friend.
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I don't even know how to, I don't know how to how to start
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from there. But I'm honored to be here.
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Super grateful that you've had me on and can't wait to to jump
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in together with this. I love that.
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Yeah, I've always thought about that.
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Wouldn't that be great just to hire someone that could just
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follow you around? I remember a long time ago,
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there was there was a comedian who talked about I'd love to
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hire someone who would just narrate my entire life.
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And there he was picking up the mangoes.
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And as he looked over the mangoes, he saw the beautiful
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woman across from him and wondered, could they once live a
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life together in harmony? Wouldn't that be great just to
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have a hype band throughout your life?
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That would be great. We need it some days we need it
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more than others for sure. Yes, definitely.
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So, well, I'm excited to dive into your story because you
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truly do have a rich background with a lot of different, a lot
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of different aspects, a lot of different areas.
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And you are very well-rounded, I think as a person, just from
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sports to academia to just people in general of, of
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connecting. And so I'm curious to start with
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where you grew up. You grew up in Gainesville, GA.
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What was life like being the oldest of three rowdy, crazy
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boys? It was very competitive.
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It's, it's a small town. There's, I don't know, 3 or
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400,000 in, in Gainesville. And you know, everybody kind of
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knows everybody for the most part.
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And we, we were very competitive in our home.
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My parents were both athletes and, and grew up high school
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sweethearts that came, came together and had had a rich
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history as well, even in, in Gainesville.
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So The funny thing is my kids are 9th generation.
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Gainesville, GA, which is, which is pretty crazy.
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We moved to Atlanta in college and then when I got married, we
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lived in Atlanta in the city. But then we ended up moving back
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home and had our kids here in Gainesville as well.
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So yeah, 9th generation, a lot of deep roots, you know, nowhere
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really to hide much when I was growing up, but it it certainly
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formed me and shaped me for where I am today.
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Yeah, definitely. So and and we'll definitely get
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in the into the you weren't able to hide in a little bit here.
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So like what was your temperament like as a child?
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Were, were like, were you a good student?
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Were you, were you an A, a go getter?
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What like give us a little bit of a taste of what was Jared's
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personality like growing up? Sure, I I was a good student.
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I was a little bit of an underachiever through middle
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school and high school coming up because I didn't want to.
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I, I was very concerned about what other people thought.
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So that's a big part of my story too.
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Just the hyper awareness of what other, you know, what's
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happening around you and then the, the far too much focus on
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what other people think. So I didn't want to make the A
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plus. I wanted to just kind of be up
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near the top, but not all the way at the top, which in
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hindsight is ridiculous. But anyway, that's, that's the
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way, that's the way I was. And you know, the school for me
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was an opportunity to excel for sure, but it was always the
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learning that I was most interested in.
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I've, I've been a, an avid learner since I can remember.
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And you know that, that those early years, they were spent,
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there were a few special teachers that helped shape that,
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especially in the way of writing, reading, just always
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looking to accumulate more knowledge.
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And so I go back to those years a lot for how that has inspired
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me and and gotten me to to where we are today.
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As an avid learner when you were younger, what did what did you
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aspire to be? What was what was the dream that
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Jared wanted to achieve? Actually, the dream early was to
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be an athlete. I, I, I wanted to play
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basketball my, my whole upbringing.
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And then I ended up kind of being a little bit better at
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golf. And so I got a scholarship to go
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play golf at, in college and we had some good success through
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those years. And I, I was trying to actually
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be a professional golfer for a good part of my life.
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And, you know, I had a lot of friends sort of living out of
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their, the trunk of their car, trying to make it work.
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They've got a family back home waiting on, you know, it, it
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just wasn't really going to work for, for as hard as it was to
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admit, I just wasn't good enough to really make it.
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And so had to make that decision to step away.
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But yeah, I mean, I, I funny enough, I wanted to be in sports
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all the way through, even all the way through college.
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Who are who are some of your big influences growing up?
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Like who really poured into your life and what were some of those
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major lessons that you still carry over to today?
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Yeah, well, first and foremost, my dad very, very fortunate and
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blessed to have two incredible parents.
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My my dad was in the public eye with with his job for the
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majority of my life since I was six.
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He was elected into public office and all the way through
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even past college into marriage, he was still serving in as a
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political figure. And so he he was, he exposed me
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to much greater heights, much greater conversations.
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I was able to be in rooms that I really had no business being in
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and, and getting to watch him in the way that he served people,
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the way that he cared for people and the the way that he really
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tried to lift, lift the tide for all the boats to to rise.
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He that's the way that that's the way that he lived life and
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or still still lifts life. He no past tense.
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He's, he's still with us. Yeah.
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He he, he was number 1. He still is number 1.
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And I, I count that as a great blessing.
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I mean, I have several others I could point to coaches and, and
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teachers. As I mentioned, that one teacher
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sticks out. She probably doesn't even know
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it. But my 10th grade English
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teacher, Holly Holly Wilson, just absolutely lifted my eyes
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to what could be as a writer. And even if I'm, I kind of
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pushed against that just, I don't know, I, I just, I just
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pushed against it. But she always called out what I
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could be and lifted, lifted my eyes to something greater and
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just called out that potential. And so I, I look back on those
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that one year as extremely catalytic for where, where I am
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today. And a lot of what I get to do
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is, is writing, it's editing. It's, you know, looking at an
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idea and a concept and somehow being trusted to be the one to
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say, yeah, that's a good one or no, that's a bad one.
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And we should change this. We should change that.
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And yeah, it's it. I go.
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I go back to that 10th grade year a lot as inspiration for
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where I am. Wow, I love.
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You know, it's funny because as I hear you talking about your
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dad, there is an apparent love for just who he is and what he's
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taught you. And yet there is such a high
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standard, I think that your dad set like to, to just touch on
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some of the waves of his accolades.
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It's just, it's crazy because he's very impressive.
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He has a very impressive resume. He was a he was a, a triathlete.
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He was very good. He was going to play
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professional or not professional football, but he was going to
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play college football until he injured himself.
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He was an entrepreneur. He had a tuxedo shop at one
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point. He started the Southern Heritage
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Bank. He was a founder of that.
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He became the Lieutenant governor of Georgia, which is
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crazy. But not only that, he was also
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the youngest, youngest senator at 28 years old.
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So to, to, to like to look at that.
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You had some high bars that you had to hit.
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And so I'm curious, how did how did that translate in life
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having having such a powerful figure?
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And I'm sure that he was a loving and encouraging guy.
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But when you see your dad as such an amazing superhero, what
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does that do for you in terms of, you know, challenging you to
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reach maybe even an echelon beyond him?
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But maybe going man, like, am I ever going to be able to do that
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because this guy, my dad, is so impressive, Like truly on paper,
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what does that do for you? You know, growing up to
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challenge you or maybe maybe inspire you, maybe 'cause some
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like doubts. What does that do for you?
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So 2 two things I love before I answer the question.
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One is I love that you've done your research.
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I didn't give you any of that about my dad.
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So obviously you've done, you've done your due diligence and #2
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I'm really grateful that we're talking right now at 36 years
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old and not eight years ago, nine years ago.
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Because I, I spent the majority of my life trying to outrun his
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shadow, the, the vast majority of certainly my younger years,
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but then went once I started kind of coming into my own and
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trying to have my own path, especially in, in college and,
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and, and after college, I wanted to be as far away as I possibly
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could from, from his shadow. And it really defined me.
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So if we would have been having this conversation eight years
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ago, I would not have wanted you to say any of that.
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I wouldn't have even wanted, you know, I'm like, I would have
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almost wanted to hide who I was. Actually, when I was interviewed
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the first time to be a part of Maxwell leadership, I was
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walking through the office, Nobody there knew me.
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I'm walking through the office and one of the guys, the guy who
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was interviewing me, walks by his desk and he's got a picture
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with the governor of Georgia and my dad, Lieutenant governor next
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to him with him in the middle. And he's like, he's bragging
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about how he's met the governor and Lieutenant governor as he's
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walking through. And I didn't say a word like he
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has no idea who I am. He has no.
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And so it wasn't until two years later when the guy came back
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around, he's like, are you kidding me?
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You let me talk like I had no idea that that was your dad.
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You let me talk about, you know, as if I'd met some, you know,
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incredible person. That's it's your dad the whole
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time. And I'm like, listen, I don't, I
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want, I want my own path, right? I want my own.
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But here's, here's what's faulty about that thinking, Nathan, and
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I'm pretty far off of your question, but we'll get maybe we
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can get back. Maybe you can wrangle me here.
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But I what's faulty about that thinking is we, we cannot forget
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where we come from and we do stand on the shoulders of of
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people. And if if we don't take that
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with gratitude, I think it was Chesterton who said it.
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It's, it's not about that. Life is all about gratitude.
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Like, are we going to, it's a choice.
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Are we going to take it for granted or are we going to take
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it with gratitude? And that's the biggest separator
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with, with individuals who really go the distance.
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We talked about being successful.
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What does it look like to be successful for a long time, not
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just burn quickly and then burn out just as quickly?
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I, I want to, I want to do this for the like the long game.
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And when I, when I look at the way that I saw my upbringing and
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I really didn't, I really didn't take it with gratitude.
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And because of that, I didn't stand on the shoulders that I
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could have. I, I didn't take advantage of
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the opportunities that I have because I was trying to pave my
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own path. No one becomes successful,
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especially for long by themselves, No great leader, no
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great business leader, no great political leader, no great they
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there. There is no lone wolf when it
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comes to great leaders. And it took me a long time to
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realize that. But what when I came around,
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that in my heart really started to soften the gratitude that I
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have for my dad and how he paved the way.
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You know, I, I saw it as a shadow.
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Now I now I see it as a path. You know, it's a it's a he
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opened doors that I couldn't have gotten in before.
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John Maxwell talks about this a lot.
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He tells me directly, Jared, I, I can get you in these rooms.
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It's your responsibility to stay.
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I can't keep you in the room. You got to show the value that
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you have. You got to be who you are and
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confident in who you are. And that's, that's what my dad
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did for me too. And it, it was, you know, it
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being in public office especially and, and he ran for
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governor and lost. And so there's stories we could
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talk about there too. But it at the state level, you
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know, I grew up under a, a somewhat of a microscope with
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that. And and you know, you those
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Great Expectations, the high bar, the high standard that you
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talk about certainly affected who who I was and and who I am.
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I love what you say and it reminds me of a quote I just
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heard recently. I don't, I can't even attribute
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it to who, who said it, but they said if you, if you're staying
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on someone's shoulders and, and no one can hear what they're
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saying, lift their voice up. And I love that because it's
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such a beautiful thing that, you know, there are people in our
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life that have made a tremendous impact that some people will
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never hear their voice. And as as a leader who stands on
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the shoulders of others, it's our responsibility to speak out
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out to the people whose shoulders were standing on.
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In fact, when I first started out as a coach, I named my
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business platform Leadership. The idea was that many people
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feel that they need to be lifted as the leader over everyone
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else. But truly, leadership is the
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exact opposite. It's the inverted pyramid.
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It's the, it's the leader that carries the weight of all of
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their followers on their shoulders.
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And so when you see that, you know, the, the picture I had was
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someone holding up a crowd with, with two arms.
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And that is truly what a leader does.
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And I think that's something that your dad has lived out
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throughout his entire life. And there's a humbleness that
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comes to that too. And I mean, there's so many
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lessons. You also have two younger
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competitive brothers that you mentioned earlier.
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And you actually, I'm curious, you had a, you had a moment in
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your college career playing golf for the Georgia Panthers.
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You and your brother played on the same team.
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In fact, you guys actually won the championship.
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I'm curious what what have you learned by competing with your
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brother versus competing against your brothers?
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That's a great question. And it's it's harder.
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It's harder for the oldest, I think too, because you know,
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it's you're supposed to be better, right?
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I'm supposed to I was always supposed to be better.
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It funny enough with so when I finished playing, I actually
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coached for a couple of years and so ended up getting the
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coach, my younger brother to Grant and he got to a place
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where he really was better than than than what I ever was.
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And it there was a point where it turned for me.
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And I remember being on the, the driving range.
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If you're familiar with golf, that's kind of where you
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practice and, and we're on the driving range and I just spent
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about four minutes and kind of gave him one idea and tweak to
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his swing and he started just really hitting it right where he
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was looking. And when went out that day and,
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and performed very well. Ended up finishing second in
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that tournament, which was a very prestigious tournament.
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And it was, it clicked for me right there that the fulfillment
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that I experienced helping him be better was so much sweeter
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than any fulfillment that I had from my, my own success.
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And I had, but I had to, I had to experience that before I
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could before that light bulb could come on.
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I spent my whole life making it about my progress, my success,
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my excellence, my, you know, but when I the first time where I
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really helped someone else have a light bulb go off in their
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mind and then see their performance increase because of
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it, that's multiplied in terms of the fulfillment that I
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experience. John says it this way.
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He says that once you've tasted significance, success will never
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satisfy. And significance is all about
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others. Success is more about you it,
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but significance is all about others.
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How are we lifting each other up?
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And so, yeah, it, it, it flipped that day, I would say from
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competing against him to, to now with, with him and, and being
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that rising tide that lifts all boats.
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That lesson of significance is, is so powerful.
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I, I remember being in Guatemala with John when he preached that
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for the first time. I think it was the first time
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that that anyone in the room at least had heard, had heard that
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250 coaches from around the world and him talking about
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significance before any of us had really tasted significance.
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And I think that we conceptually understood it.
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And I think I think this will drive what your point is, is
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conceptually you understand it, but until you taste it, you
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don't get it until you taste the significance, until you, you
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know, and it's you know, success is important.
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We've talked about that before in the podcast.
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It's important to have success. But significance is something
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that truly does outlast you. I'm curious.
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So you you graduate from college, where does your life go
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from there? Yeah, well, I quickly realized
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that I wasn't going to be able to make it professionally.
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So as I was trying to figure out what was next, I ended up
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getting my master's degree in sports administration because I
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wanted to be an athletic director at that point.
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So that was kind of my pivot. But I was making $25,000 a year
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in the athletic department at Georgia State and we were living
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in Buckhead, which is. The one of the more expensive
20:10
parts of Atlanta and just got married, loved where we were
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loved the the church that we were a part of, but just weren't
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making enough money to really sustain, you know what we were
20:24
trying to do. Kids wanted kids wanted a family
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and so I, I actually started looking for some side work and
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got connected with Maxwell leadership at the time and they
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had an opportunity for me to come on as a sales person, just
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kind of temporary, you know, attempt sales Rep making phone
20:45
calls and that yes, that very small yes, because I didn't have
20:51
to leave what I was doing. It was kind of on the side, but
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that small, yes, opened up the door to so much more than I
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could imagine. Because as soon as I got in the
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environment with Maxwell leadership, I was exposed now to
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things that I didn't realize I needed and people and
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opportunities that, you know, would, would certainly change
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the way that I, I looked at the rest of my life.
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And so anyway, about 5 months into that temporary position,
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they offered me a full time job. And that was 2013, end of 2013.
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And I've I've been there in some capacity ever since.
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Wow. We all have Crucible moments in
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life. And I love, I love the Crucible
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moments because they're the hard moments where life hits and you
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have to make a decision and that decision is going to determine
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who you're going to be, right? It's, it's the, it's the, it's
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the furnace. It's the Crucible of character.
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And we all have those. I'm curious what what were one
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or two of your large Crucible moments in your life where you
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had to make a decision that was truly going to change or alter
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the trajectory of where you were going?
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Yeah, I'll go. I'll go personal on this one
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too. You know, I, we were living in
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in Buckhead, Atlanta. I love the city, I love the
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opportunity. I was there were several things
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about our life at that point that I wanted to build on.
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And my wife just couldn't get her heart peaceful about where
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we were. And so for several months, we
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struggled through, you know, what she's, she's feeling this
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need to move back home. She's feeling this, this draw
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to, you know, start a family and move, move back there.
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And I was on a totally different wavelength.
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And, you know, I'm trying to lead this family, but also like
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leading is not just getting your way.
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It's not being in charge. It's so much more than that.
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And and so I'm learning all those lessons as well.
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And, and ended up moving back, not really sure why, and had to
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give up a lot of opportunities and even walk away from a church
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that I really loved and wanted to continue to be a part of.
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And when we moved back home, you know, it, it wasn't long after
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that that we found out why she was feeling that draw and why we
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believe the Lord was leading us back because her so her, her
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brother passed away tragically and suddenly.
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And then ten months later, her dad had a heart attack and died.
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And so within, within less than a year, you know, that their
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whole family and, and my whole family was, was shaken.
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Her brother was 26, her dad, her, her dad was, was not even
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was, was not even 60 at the time.
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And so we're, we're in this season of we're, our life is, is
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not our own. Our life is but a vapor.
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We God has a plan that's far beyond what I was seeing.
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Just this little like, what can we be?
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What can we become? How can we make a difference?
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And, and he used that season to show me that, you know, planting
24:16
roots, having sustainable impact and also taking every day very
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seriously and having the urgency of, of, of the daily, daily walk
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was yeah. So he, he, he taught us that in
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that, in that season, moving back home was a very difficult
24:38
decision for me. And, but I, I know, I know that
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it was for a reason. We needed, we needed those two
24:44
years before to really lay down some roots.
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You, you have to, this is another quick lesson on that
24:52
that I learned is it's, it's the whole prepare before, before
24:58
it's time thing, right? When opportunity comes, it's too
25:00
late to prepare. They say drink before you're
25:03
thirsty, right? If you're, you can't hydrate,
25:06
it's, it's too late if you're chugging water when you're in
25:08
the middle of a, of a triathlon. And that I experienced that too.
25:13
We, we had to lay down roots and, and, and plant those seeds
25:18
for when we needed them later. And the value of community, the
25:23
value of, of having somewhere in some, in some group of people
25:30
that have your back and can stand with you through difficult
25:33
times. I would encourage anyone out
25:36
there, don't wait to to dig and plant those roots, but you know,
25:40
until you need them, start today.
25:43
Your father-in-law, Speaking of a really great man, he was also
25:48
a really incredible guy with high value.
25:51
What were some of the things that you learn from being around
25:54
your father-in-law? Oh man, what a great, yeah, what
25:59
a great man. I I preached his funeral and
26:02
that was a very hard thing for me at he really was a second
26:06
father figure. I knew my, I met my wife in the
26:09
7th grade, so I knew her family since we were very young.
26:13
We, we dated off and on through high school.
26:16
And you know, one of the things I think that comes to mind for
26:21
him above all, above all the things, is his generosity.
26:25
He was an optometrist, had several different eye practices
26:28
and at, at the height he had four different locations.
26:33
And so he, but he was, he was the guy who would go 1520
26:39
minutes longer with a patient because he, he, he wanted to
26:43
make sure that he was giving them his best.
26:46
He wanted to make sure he was get everything that, that he
26:49
could. And you know, he was so generous
26:52
with his time, so generous with his wisdom and his, his money,
26:57
his home, his, you know, everything.
26:59
He, he was a guy that would, would give you the shirt off his
27:03
back for sure. But yeah, I, I learned, I, I
27:06
would say I learned generosity from him in, in probably the
27:09
more unique and creative ways. He, he gave money, but he wasn't
27:14
the typical like just give a whole bunch of money.
27:17
He was, he was a, he got creative with his giving.
27:21
You know, he, there was no limit to what he was willing to be
27:23
generous with. And he taught me that generosity
27:27
is not just about giving money. It's, it's far deeper than that.
27:30
Wow. That is really powerful.
27:35
So how did you get into the publishing world?
27:38
Because it's, it's funny, because as you listen to the
27:41
trajectory of where your life's going, there's, there's, there's
27:44
seeds early on from your teachers pouring into you.
27:50
Because I mean, I, I was not a great student, especially when
27:53
it came to literature. Reading was not a strong piece.
27:56
I always say that I was probably one of the few peoples that
27:58
graduated from college without really reading any of my college
28:01
books, which is probably why my grades were the way that they
28:04
were. But what?
28:07
What led you to getting into the publishing world to where you
28:11
are right now? So this is hysterical to me.
28:17
So much of my life has just been defined by saying yes.
28:20
And even when you don't know what's on the other side, it's
28:24
it, it wouldn't be fate if we knew everything that was on the
28:26
other side. And so it's those small yeses.
28:28
One day our, our marketing director at Maxwell left, our
28:34
graphic designer left, our, our, our executive director left, all
28:39
in a pretty short span of time over on the nonprofit side of
28:44
our business, which is where I was at the time.
28:47
And in that moment it was like, OK, we've got this Mac computer
28:51
where we design everything. Jared, you're kind of young.
28:56
Maybe you, maybe you can figure it out, right?
29:00
So in in about 3 or 4, three or four weeks, I would say I
29:06
learned Adobe Indesign, Photoshop, Illustrate.
29:10
I just taught myself all of these things on because we had
29:13
an annual report that was due that had to be sent to the
29:16
printer. I wrote all the copy for it.
29:19
I designed everything for it. Just really said yes and went
29:23
and figured it out. After that they came to me and
29:26
they said, hey, we got this Instagram page for John Maxwell.
29:29
It's 140,000 followers. We never post.
29:35
You're kind of young. Apparently you can design and
29:39
write a little bit, which we didn't know.
29:43
What do you think about taking on this, this Instagram account?
29:46
I'm like, sure. So I start posting about once a
29:49
week, maybe twice a week, and the following starts really
29:53
increasing. Really, I'm not a social media
29:56
guy at all, especially then, but I'm just saying yes and doing
29:59
what I can and stewarding the voice.
30:01
And, and one day Mark Cole, our CEO, came to me and, or he
30:05
actually came to my boss and said, hey, so I'm seeing this
30:10
Instagram stuff like what you know who who's people are
30:13
telling me that they're loving John Maxwell's Instagram.
30:15
What is that? Who's doing it?
30:17
You know? And so Chad Johnson, my boss at
30:20
the time, he he says, yes, Jared.
30:22
Yeah, he's been doing that for about a year now.
30:24
And nobody knew it, right? Nobody.
30:27
And so Mark had a meeting with me.
30:29
He's like, I had no idea you could write.
30:31
I had no idea you had aspirations to write.
30:33
I said, yeah, no, no kidding. Because everybody around here
30:36
wants to write. Everybody around here wants to
30:39
be close to John. That's what we do here.
30:41
We write, we speak. I'm not going to be that guy.
30:43
I'm. I'm not going to be that guy.
30:45
And so it what's what's so interesting to me, he started
30:49
asking me questions about how I how I was able to write in the
30:54
voice of John Maxwell, how I was able to steward his voice so
30:58
well. And he was actually reading the
31:00
captions that I was writing. And so and I just my simple
31:04
answer was I've I've been listening and reading and
31:07
watching everything I possibly can about John.
31:10
Yeah, I take this very seriously.
31:12
May maybe not everybody wants or not, not everybody knows about
31:16
Instagram, but I've been given an opportunity to steward a
31:20
hero's voice. I take that very seriously.
31:23
And it what's what's so funny to me is I go back to that like
31:28
that was a turning point for my career.
31:30
And I had no idea when I said yes to Instagram, I had no idea
31:35
that that was going to be a turning point in my career.
31:38
And they were going to look at me and say, actually, he can
31:40
write. And eventually John Maxwell was
31:43
going to bring me into his writing team and asked me to
31:45
help critique him on his writing and his books.
31:48
And if I don't critique him hard enough, he gets really
31:51
frustrated with me and tells me I'm not going to have a place in
31:54
the room if I don't use my voice anymore.
31:56
I'm like, you're John Maxwell. Need I remind you you're 96
32:02
books in and 1112 of them have sold over 1,000,000 copies.
32:07
You're John Maxwell. Do you know who I am?
32:09
No, that's the point. No, So you know, but it's, it's
32:14
a, it's a wild ride. And it started with just a a
32:18
really simple yes. Well, it's such a testament of
32:23
who you are to be surrounded by the people that you're around
32:27
because you're you're around a lot of great leaders.
32:30
Don't get me wrong, everyone in the Maxwell leadership
32:33
organization, there are a lot of great leaders, but there are two
32:37
leaders within that organization that define the culture in the
32:41
feel of the organization. And those two leaders, John
32:44
Maxwell and Mark Cole, who are both massive servant leaders.
32:49
And it's by no accident that they've placed Jared in the
32:52
position because Jared, you are truly a huge servant leader.
32:57
Because one of the definition, like one of the defining pieces
33:00
of a servant leader is someone who is willing to learn, someone
33:04
who's willing to swallow pride and say, you know what?
33:08
I don't know this. Let me go figure it out.
33:09
Let me go find the answer. You know, I've, I've heard that
33:12
story so many times of John telling his assistant, you know,
33:15
when she said, Hey, go find, go, go get me connected to this
33:18
person. Go get their number.
33:19
I, I don't know it. And then him going out and
33:21
spending half the day going and find the number that you are
33:26
surrounded by servant leaders. But not only that, these servant
33:30
leaders are some of the most amazing people you've, you could
33:34
possibly be around. In fact, you have spent a lot of
33:38
time with amazing leaders. Like, I'm not going to go into
33:42
naming every single person that you've had conversations with,
33:46
but when when you look at the fact that you've spent a lot of
33:50
time with Tim Elmore going through books on, on your, your
33:55
podcast of helping people learn how to write a book and, and
33:58
what are the stages that you should go through and think
34:01
about? Like you, you truly do get
34:03
surrounded by amazing people. I'm curious though, you actually
34:08
have gotten to spend some time with people who have Grammy
34:12
nominated songs, people that write amazing music.
34:18
And because you're in the world of publishing, I'm curious where
34:22
does the crossover happen with writing an amazing song that's
34:27
going to be a hit and being able to write a book that is going to
34:32
stand the test of time? Where is the crossover between
34:35
those two genres of of book and music?
34:38
Let's let's let's have some fun right here, Nathan.
34:41
That's a great question. So the, the beautiful thing
34:45
about music is you, you only have so long, you know,
34:50
songwriting, you only have, you only have a few minutes a book,
34:53
you got a lot longer. But here, here's the tricky
34:56
thing with a book, We think we've got a lot longer when
34:59
really we, we got about the same amount of time to grab
35:02
somebody's attention and people's attention are it is, is
35:06
shrinking and shrinking and shrinking.
35:08
The, the more, the more we dig into technology and, and the
35:12
days that we're in, John always says, hey, at the end of every
35:16
page, I ask myself the question, will the reader turn the page?
35:20
And if, if John Maxwell is asking that after every single
35:25
page, right, every single page, what's going to make the reader
35:29
want to turn the page? And so when, when you're, when
35:32
you're writing a song, I think there's so much crossover there.
35:37
You only have so much time with a song.
35:39
So you have to get really focused and really clear and
35:44
really you gotta know your audience and know how to grab
35:48
their attention. It's not much different with a
35:51
book. You, you only have so much time
35:53
to grab and keep their attention and you have, you have more time
35:58
to unpack it, but you can't get, you can't fool yourself into
36:02
believing that you're going to have their attention all the way
36:04
through the book if you don't really get focused on how to
36:08
connect with them. At the end of the day,
36:10
connecting is the most important principle for any form of
36:15
communication, whether we're communicating through a song,
36:18
through a book, from the stage on a podcast, connecting.
36:23
And if you're going to connect, you have to know more about the
36:26
other person that you're trying to connect with, more about your
36:30
audience. You get to spend more time on
36:32
them than you do on you. You want to you want to be more
36:34
interested in them then you are trying to make them think that
36:37
you're interesting. These are all things you got to
36:40
think about when you're communicating.
36:42
And so all that being said, I see a song as a communication
36:47
vehicle. It's a smaller one.
36:49
It's packaged differently. It's universal in language,
36:54
which is beautiful like so it travels, you know, really beyond
36:58
what a book could and it but it but there's so much crossover
37:02
because it's a communication vehicle as well.
37:04
What message do we want to convey?
37:07
How do what value can we add to the listener?
37:10
Whether it's a song, whether it's a keynote, whether it's a
37:14
podcast, whether it's a book, it's the same endeavor.
37:17
We're trying to connect with the person so that they can then go
37:21
take that value they've received and and multiply it to the
37:25
people around them. You are so passionate about so
37:29
many different subjects, which I think it really does lend to
37:32
your ability to connect and even your ability to work with people
37:37
from very, very different backgrounds, very different
37:40
backgrounds of of industry and focal focal point.
37:44
But one of the things I really love about you, and we're on the
37:47
same page with this, you're a coffee file.
37:49
You love coffee. You're someone who's passionate
37:53
about coffee. And I like a guy passionate
37:55
about coffee. There's something, there's
37:57
something about geeking out over coffee and how you brew it and
38:01
how you roast it. And you're one of those guys.
38:04
And, and so I want to ask you this question because one of our
38:07
good friends that we've, we've already mentioned on this
38:09
podcast so far today is Mark Cole.
38:12
He said that everyone deserves to be LED.
38:14
Well, everyone deserves a good leader.
38:19
I've actually, you know one of the mantras of the the coffee
38:22
businesses that you, you Co own you, you both say that every
38:27
single person should have access to great coffee.
38:31
Why is that important that every person has access to a good cup
38:36
of coffee? Well, so for me, I do love
38:41
coffee. I love the taste of coffee.
38:43
I love how it makes me feel. I love.
38:46
I, I love, I love how it makes my mind work better right there.
38:51
There's, there's good, good things, but those are those are
38:55
side effects. What I really love about it is
38:58
how it's still one of the more relational devices that we have
39:05
in our culture. And it's one of the only ones
39:08
where we can say, hey, you want to, you want to go grab a cup of
39:10
coffee. And most people find that as
39:14
disarming. Most people find that as an
39:17
opportunity to connect and an opportunity to get to know one
39:20
another and an opportunity to sit down and in the hustle of
39:25
Western American Society, right it, you know, one of the things
39:30
we've lost, I think, Nathan, the other parts of the world and
39:33
other cultures, they sit down and have meals for hours.
39:38
Like they don't rush away from the table in America.
39:41
We, we, we are racing to see who can have lunch the fastest so
39:45
that we can get back to work, right?
39:47
But there's something about coffee where it's like, hey, can
39:50
we go grab a cup of coffee? We might sit down for 20-30
39:54
minutes. We might sit down for an hour.
39:56
We might sit down for 90 minutes.
39:57
I haven't sat down for 90 minutes in a long time, if I
40:00
must confess. But there's something disarming
40:04
about coffee, right? So that that's really, that's
40:07
really what I love And, and. It's kind of a fun line.
40:10
Hey, everybody deserves it. You know, a good cup of coffee.
40:14
One, one of the things we're trying to do with our coffee
40:17
roastery is give it, make it affordable, make it accessible,
40:23
make it to where it can be brewed in multiple types of
40:27
ways. So it's not specific to, you
40:29
know, set some specialty grinds you had.
40:33
You know, you kind of have to do it in a pour over or you kind of
40:36
have to do it in espresso to really get what you want.
40:39
We're trying to be a little more accessible, a little more
40:42
well-rounded because we, we want, we want, we want our brand
40:46
to be synonymous with that. And we want people to be able to
40:49
sit down and and be together as the most important part.
40:52
I love that you are such a driver.
40:57
You you like, you're an achiever.
41:00
You see something and you go after it.
41:02
And I've talked about this a couple times and I am curious on
41:05
your take on this as as an achiever.
41:08
I because I'm one of those two. It's really easy to forget the
41:13
people closest to us. It's really easy to get so
41:16
focused on a goal. You run after it.
41:19
You know, you, you, you stay up late to, to do your work to make
41:23
sure that you're doing your best with all excellence.
41:26
And when you stay up late, you don't go to bed with your wife
41:29
and your relationship suffers over time.
41:32
You have been extremely intentional to protect your
41:35
marriage. That's why you've been married
41:37
for over 11 years now. I'm curious, what have been some
41:41
of the monumental decisions that you've made to make sure that
41:46
you've protected your family while also pursuing things that
41:51
are great? Yeah, well, Mark Cole's ears are
41:56
ringing this morning, I'm sure, because I'm about to mention him
41:58
again. We've mentioned him a few
41:59
different times, but we'll edit it.
42:01
Out. We'll take his name out for
42:02
every time we send it. Or we'll pay him.
42:05
I don't know. One of the two, yeah.
42:07
Royalties, royalties. But for good reason.
42:10
We're mentioning him. He's, he's taught me how to be
42:13
present with your family, even when you're not with them and
42:20
when you are with them, they're the most important thing that's
42:24
in front of you. You're right.
42:25
So they're those two aspects like you could be across the
42:29
world. He, he could be across the world
42:31
traveling and impacting leaders in in a different country and
42:37
still present with his family. I've seen him drop things in
42:41
order to take a phone call with them.
42:43
I, my dad's another good example of this.
42:46
I do not remember a time where I called my dad when he was in the
42:52
height of his career politically and he didn't pick up the phone.
42:56
I, I cannot remember. I legitimately, sometimes it
43:00
was, hey, you, are you good? Can I call you right back?
43:03
But he always picked up the phone.
43:06
And that's a huge challenge for me.
43:08
I mean, my kids are still young, so they're not calling me.
43:11
But I think about that all the time.
43:13
How can we be present even when we're not with them?
43:17
That's number one. Same with same with Kaylin.
43:19
How can I be present even when I'm not with it?
43:22
I'm out here learning and growing it on what feels like a
43:27
one of those moving sidewalks. Like it's exponential growth
43:30
right now for me from a professional standpoint and a
43:33
personal standpoint, certainly a leadership standpoint.
43:36
She's not with me in those endeavors.
43:38
She's not with me in these conferences, in these rooms, in
43:41
these boardrooms, and she's not with me in that.
43:44
But how can I keep her present? How can I be present with her as
43:49
I grow, even when she's not with me in that, that, that looks
43:52
like explaining in great detail all that I've been a part of
43:57
talking with her through it, helping her see the impact that
44:00
we're having, helping my kids see the impact.
44:03
Dad, you're going to, you're going to Arizona again.
44:05
You, you just went to Florida last week.
44:07
Where, why are you going? Well, babe, I'm, I'm going to,
44:10
to meet with these people that are doing these things and we're
44:14
able to make this impact together.
44:16
And my 10 year old is saying, wow, you know, we get to do
44:19
Yeah. And you are helping me do that
44:22
right now, Everett. You're a part of that story.
44:25
And so I it's, it's this principle of how can we be
44:27
present even when we're not with them, but then also when we are
44:31
with them making the most of those times.
44:35
I I had a mentor tell me last year and it really impacted me.
44:39
He said he's got a hat in his truck.
44:42
And so when he takes his kids to practice, he puts on that hat
44:45
and nobody knows it except for him.
44:47
But that hat is synonymous for it's his dad hat.
44:51
You know, it's this is, I'm putting this hat on when it's
44:54
time to be dad. And when I put that hat on
44:57
symbolically, I'm saying to myself, put the work aside, put
45:01
the achieving aside. It's it's time to be, it's time
45:05
to be dad. And, and that really impacted me
45:07
as well. I think it's they, they noticed
45:09
the kids, the kids and certainly our spouses, they noticed when
45:14
we're when we're with them and we're not present.
45:16
And it's very important that we give them our best when we're
45:18
with them. It's it's so powerful.
45:21
You have said so many things on the podcast like it.
45:25
It's by no surprise to me that there is just wisdom that pours
45:30
out of your mouth. Not because there's something
45:32
specifically special about Jared.
45:35
Yes, you are a special guy, but it's because of the people that
45:39
you've surrounded yourself with. It's the people that you've
45:42
intention placed yourself at their feet and you've allowed
45:46
them to pour into you. And that's one of the things I
45:48
really love about you is that you truly are a learner.
45:51
You're a passionate learner who wants to not just learn for
45:54
self, but you want to learn because you want to help other
45:57
people. And it truly is an Admiral
45:59
admirable thing that I think a lot of people could really come
46:03
to understand and live out in their day-to-day life.
46:07
Jared, it's been so great having you on the podcast.
46:10
I, I do have one more question for you, but before I ask it,
46:14
all of you guys listening right now, go and subscribe to the
46:17
Maxwell Leadership podcast if you haven't done so already.
46:20
It truly is a great podcast to listen to.
46:22
It's going to sharpen you, whether you are a leader of
46:25
children or whether you're a leader of large organizations.
46:28
It is a podcast that is a it's go to.
46:32
You got to go get it. Second of all, I want you to go
46:35
grab a bag of specialty coffee from Craftsman Coffee Company.
46:39
I'm I'm looking at my order right now.
46:42
It's the Columbia and the trusty Dusty they I like the fruity
46:47
flavor of coffee. And so I'm, I'm looking forward
46:51
to placing my order and getting my first cup of coffee here
46:54
because I got to have at least I don't know, I maybe I'm an
46:57
addict. Maybe I need to go get some help
46:59
for this. But and lastly, I want I truly
47:04
want you to go check out some of the best selling books that
47:08
Maxwell leadership is publishing right now with, with his with
47:11
Jared's team. You got some truly amazing
47:14
books. Chris Robinson and just had his
47:16
book come out. You guys heard me talk about it
47:19
with him from Drift to Drive. Ryan Leaks book on how to work
47:23
with complicated people, which by the way, you and I both work
47:27
with complicated people. So you got to get the book and
47:30
we're not going to talk about the book because if you want the
47:32
information, you got to go get the book.
47:36
So, you know, with all those things in mind, subscribe to the
47:40
podcast, get a cup of coffee, and go check out some really
47:43
good reading that's going to fill your life.
47:45
Jared, you've spoken about how people don't write books because
47:51
they get stuck in perfection rather than living in progress.
47:56
What does progress over perfection look like in your
48:00
life right now? This is one of the core, the
48:06
core lessons that I'm always learning.
48:09
And one of the more difficult for me always has been I, I like
48:12
to be ready before I start. I like to come and show up in
48:16
the room and be impressive, you know, and I think people can
48:20
relate to that. I for, for me, progress looks
48:25
like do doing something consistently every single day,
48:32
even if it's smaller than you think you should be doing.
48:35
But don't let the smallness of that stop you from doing
48:38
something because a little bit of something over a a long time
48:43
is going to, is going to compound.
48:45
And I, I tell, I tell people all the time, like just put a word.
48:49
If you're writing a book, put a word count on yourself like I
48:54
and it and maybe it's small, maybe it's 100 words.
48:56
Just just write 100 words today and do that for five days this
49:00
week and then do that for 10 days this month.
49:04
And now we have 5000 words and that's a really long chapter and
49:09
you need ten of those chapters to make a book.
49:11
You know, like we can, we can do that, right?
49:13
We can do 10 days a month at 100 words a day for five days a
49:18
week, right? Like, but when you do a little
49:22
bit, don't, don't let the bigness of the goal stop you
49:26
from doing a little bit today. That's what progress looks like.
49:30
And, and the other thing that I'll say on that, when it as it
49:32
relates to perfection, especially John teaches me this
49:35
better than anyone. If we don't put the idea on the
49:39
wall, if we don't put it on the table, if we don't get it out
49:45
into the world, we can't make it better, we can't improve it.
49:49
No idea is great, certainly not perfect the first time.
49:53
If you keep it in here and you don't let it out, you miss out
49:56
on the opportunity to really make it great and letting other
50:01
people see it, letting other people speak into it, letting
50:05
other people hold you accountable to what you're
50:07
trying to achieve. Most of the time, that's the
50:10
difference in in really, in really making something great.
50:14
And so, yeah, progress over perfection.
50:16
Big lesson I got to preach to myself every day, Nathan.
50:19
I love that. And, you know, it reminds me of
50:22
of the quote that the, the richest place in the world is
50:25
the graveyard where people have gone to rest and they're they
50:29
have, they've kept their ideas and their thoughts inside of
50:32
them. And what you're talking about is
50:35
so powerful that each and everyone of us has a story,
50:39
whether you get that out in the form of writing or whether you
50:41
get that in out in the form of like a podcast of coming on the
50:45
show like this and, and telling your story so that people can
50:48
hear it. So people can take the lessons
50:51
that you've learned and they can ply them to your life.
50:55
It really is important to get those ideas separate from
50:58
yourself, just like you're saying, just like John has
51:00
taught us. You know, I want to, I want to
51:03
ask you one more question here, because I think this is, this is
51:05
powerful. And I love that you talk about
51:08
publishing a book. I love that you talk about
51:11
writing 100 words a day, five days a week.
51:15
And you can get a really good book out of that.
51:17
Obviously there's editing and there's improvement that comes
51:20
along. But Jared, I'm curious, if you
51:23
were to write and publish a book tomorrow that your kids would
51:28
one day read, what would the narrative arc and substance of
51:33
that book be that you'd be communicating to Everett, Mick
51:35
and Rory? Don't do it to me, Nathan.
51:40
Don't do it to me. Which by the way, for those of
51:44
you listening, I, I'm laughing at this question because Jared
51:47
has been messaging me for the past month, two months.
51:50
Hey, Nathan, if you could write a book, what would, what would
51:53
that book be about? What are you passionate about?
51:56
And, and I, and I messaged, I finally messaged him back this a
51:59
couple days ago. And I said, well, I, I'm not
52:02
ignoring you. I promise you.
52:03
I'm, I'm just preparing. I'm preparing for time with you.
52:06
I'm preparing for time with other guests.
52:09
We're going to talk about it. Don't worry about it.
52:11
And and he was like, yeah, I completely understand that.
52:14
And what's the what's the last thing that he writes in his
52:17
message to me? So if there was an idea or a
52:20
concept that you wanted to share?
52:23
So this is so it's funny because I went third time.
52:25
I wasn't going to originally ask the question, but as I was
52:28
sitting here and as you, as you so wonderfully landed the plane
52:32
on this, what is the book? What is the book with that
52:35
overlying arc? Yeah, and that's, that's exactly
52:40
why I said don't do it to me because, you know, you got to
52:42
take your own medicine every once in a while.
52:43
I'm, I'm helping literally, it's, it's astounding to me.
52:47
But I'm, I'm in the business of helping hundreds of people do
52:50
the very thing that you just asked me to do, you know, and
52:53
all of my time is spent trying to help them get their book out.
52:58
And there's going to come a day, God willing, that I help myself
53:04
get one out for the, for the glory of God.
53:07
I if, if there were, if I was writing one, especially in light
53:11
of my kids and what, what I would want them to know in the
53:13
next generation. I am very passionate about the
53:16
next generation and helping bring the potential out of them
53:21
and into light and helping them believe in themselves.
53:25
You know, I, I think I would go the route of hindsight, you
53:32
know, for, for me, the, the lessons that I wish I would have
53:36
known. It's kind of like letters to a
53:40
young leader, but it's, it's letters to myself when I was 20,
53:47
the things I wish I knew when I was just starting out as a
53:49
leader, the things I wish I knew when I didn't even know that I
53:53
was a leader. And you know, the, the hindsight
53:57
of that is like I've, I've walked through it.
53:59
I've learned some tough lessons. It's not been pretty every time.
54:03
It's a lot easier to tell the highlights like we have today,
54:07
but if, if there's any way that I could move my kids and future
54:12
generations of leaders to the front of the line and give them
54:15
a little bit of wisdom. I think that's what you're doing
54:17
with this, Nathan. I think your your heart clearly
54:20
is to give wisdom so that the people that are listening can
54:25
can have a little bit more of a jump start and get a little bit
54:28
further ahead. My heart is always to take the
54:32
people around me on my team or that I'm pouring into to a
54:35
higher level than than I that I'm at and then a higher level
54:39
than I'm ever could be at. It's a, it's a rising tide type
54:43
of mentality to where we can lift each other.
54:46
And I, I don't want to be the high.
54:47
If I'm the highest in my world, than my legacy is very small.
54:52
And so, yeah, I think, I think I would go that route and try to
54:56
get specific on some of the lessons that I wish I would have
54:58
known when I was just getting started.
55:00
I love that the, the title that comes to mind is leading Forward
55:04
from past wisdom, which is, which is so beautiful because so
55:09
many of us, we gain wisdom over time, but we forget that we need
55:15
to share it with other people. And, and I know that you're
55:17
passionate about that. I know that you speak with youth
55:20
and encourage them to have conversations, to ask questions,
55:24
and you pour into their lives. Jared, thank you so much for
55:28
sharing your story, the lessons that have shaped you over your
55:31
life. I know that so many of us,
55:33
myself including, we're listening and we're leaving
55:36
today with practical wisdom that we can put into action For all
55:40
of you tuning in. Don't just be inspired by
55:43
Jared's words. This, this is not a podcast to
55:46
inspire. This is a podcast that we want
55:48
to encourage you to take a step to choose progress over
55:52
perfection. Until next time, remember to be
55:55
more, see more, and experience more than before.