Latest / Color Commentary / Ep 43 | The Tuskegee Dress Code (feat. Jubilee Ransome)
Transcript
- Charles Cole: Welcome to Color Commentary, a podcast where the stories shaping our world are told in black and white first, and then we dig into the deeper meaning in full color. Each week I'll be bringing you the news like this. First, we'll start with what I like to call the black and white section. A clear, straight shooting rundown of the facts and a tradition of greats like Ed Bradley, Walter Cronkite, and the classic voices of journalism. Then we'll shift into the color commentary section where I have my own personal opinions and insights. Sometimes it'll just be me. And like today, sometimes we'll have a guest. I'm a scholar, I'm a hip-hop junkie, a movie and culture nerd, and an avid book reader, amongst other things. ⁓ so in these shows you'll get a glimpse of all that. All right, let's get into it. Alright, today's story came out of Tuskegee. ⁓ it's a dress code policy. Then there's a line in there about bonnets and do-rags, and the internet lost its mind. ⁓ so this looks like it's about to be a story about clothes, but it it's grown into something much larger. It's grown into being about respectability, professionalism, who gets to define it, black versus other. ⁓ our standards. It's a whole lot of things. It's an interesting conversation that's having ⁓ that's being had on the internet right now. and so I think this is a really interesting is issue. I had plans of doing this already, but I got nudged by a friend ⁓ and today's guest. Now, my guest today is a very special guest. ⁓ my guest has spent more than two decades in education. ⁓ Jubilee Ransom is an educator and executive leadership coach and an artist. She has a beautiful voice. ⁓ she was born and raised in Brooklyn, and she started her teaching career through the NYC Teaching Fellows right out of college. ⁓ going back to serve in the same community that raised her afterwards. Her message to her students was very simple. Your zip code does not have to define your potential, your purpose, or your future. And for over 20 years, she has poured into students, families, educators, and school leaders in high needs communities that serve black and brown children. She is the founder of Restarted ⁓ Executive Coaching and Consulting. She is a national principal mentor certified through NAESP. And this August, she begins doctoral studies and systems leaderships at the University of Maryland. We're very proud of her. Some of you already know her voice because she is also my co-host. Over on the South Star Classroom, which you can catch live, unlike this show. This is not a live show, but you can catch us live over there ⁓ every Tuesday, 3 p.m. Pacific, ⁓ 6 p.m. Eastern. She is also the proud mother of two black young men that I like to call geniuses. ⁓ Jubilee, welcome back to the microphone. And I want to welcome you officially to Color Commentary. How you doing, Jude? I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I made it to the color commentary. Yeah. I mean, I I saw this this article and I'm like, ⁓ this would be good to talk about with Charles. This would be good. And we we could talk about it on the color side. I like it. I love it. It's all good. I'm I'm with it. And I think what she's referring to is we have a show that we love doing, but it's like our black and brown show. And then there's some topics and we we go into the topics, right? We we've had the topics that are like very Latino heavy and and and and our other co-hosts, David and Omar. You know, we all talk about it and go in and then there's some black topics and we do it. But there have been topics too where it's like, is this the topic we wanna have there or is it a topic that we need to kind of have over here? And again, those guys are great. They can roll with the punches and handle everything. It's awesome. ⁓ but you know, I there's there's a thing I think with I think it happens with every race. I think where it's like there's conversations for everybody, and then there's conversations where, you know, you need to kind of have here. So we'll see. And maybe we'll still talk about it over there as well. But this is a good place to to launch it out first. So I'm glad to have you. Did I leave anything out in your intro? You didn't. It was perfect. I was I was back there Doing all sorts of foolishness while you were reading this. It was great. Well, before we get into it, let me set the table, okay? So for our people, here's our story in black and white. Tommy, give me my black and white, brother. So this story comes out of Tuskegee University, the private, historically black university in Alabama. Earlier this week, Tuskegee's president, Dr. Mark Brown. Who is himself Tuskegee graduate and has led the school since 2024, sent a letter to the parents of incoming students announcing what was described as an updated policy covering student attire, class attendance, and cell phone use in classrooms. ⁓ so hold on to that word updated because it matters more than it sounds. Here is what the July announcement says. In a letter to parents, President Brown wrote that students should arrive on campus. With the business suit and proper shoes appropriate for a business meeting. The policy bars revealing clothing in class, in the cafeteria, and at official settings like convocation. It says students may not wear bedroom shoes, bonnets, or do rags to class or the cafeteria. It also tightens attendance rules and restricts cell phone use during class. Faculty are authorized to address students who do not follow the guidelines. Brown framed the policy not as a way to restrict the student experience, but as preparation for the workforce students will enter after they graduate. That bonus and do-rags line went viral and the reaction split hard. Plenty of people applauded it, saying young adults should be taught to present themselves professionally. Others called it respectability politics and cultural policing part of a much older argument about black hair, black expression, and who was asked to cover it up. Now here's the part that most of the outrage skipped, and it's the reason we wanted to slow this one down. The dress code language everyone is fighting about is not new. Tuskegee Student Handbook has carried essentially these same rules for years. The handbook language that bans do rags, stocking caps, bandanas, and other headwear inside campus buildings, and bars sleeper outside of the residence hall sits in the same student handbook section. As a campus smoking policy that took effect back in 2014. The journalist Michael Harry has surfaced the 2021 edition of the handbook, showing the same dress code language as already on the books, and readers noted that 2023 and 24 versions read almost identically. In other words, the specific items that set the internet on fire, the do-rags, headwear, sleepwear, they were already prohibited long before this summer. So what's actually new in 2026? Mainly the packaging and a few additions. This year, the message went out as as a direct letter to parents of incoming students. It named bonus and bedroom shoes explicitly and it bundled the dress code together with the new attendance and cell phone rules and the business suit language. This is all under a workforce readiness banner as Tuskegee prepares for his largest freshman class in more than 30 years. Congrats to you all for having your largest class in 30 years. One more clarification because it drove a lot to a lot of anger. The line about arriving on campus with a business suit led many to believe students are now required to wear a suit to class every single day. Read plainly, it lands closer to owning one professional outfit for business settings, not a daily suit mandate. Meaning if we have something here and you need to have business attire, they want to make sure that you have it. I'm not copping pleas Tuskegee. You're gonna hear all of our thoughts in a moment, but we gotta get the facts right before we start having this conversation. The students themselves have pushed back, and their arguments run in two directions. First, they say the coverage misrepresents them. They point out that Tuskegee has always had a dress code that students already show up dressed professionally, host their own career development events, and are spending this summer in suits at internships. One student caught an AI-generated image of a Tuskegee student lounging in sleepwear on campus as a form of, quote, digital racism. Second and louder, students say the dress code is drowning out the issues that actually matter. They describe a housing crisis and a financial aid crisis on campus. More than a thousand students moved about 30 minutes away. Students have been placed in hotels. They're renting out houses just to stay enrolled. There have been reports of bats in the dorms and warning that financial aid could be pulled for tardiness. Some raised a slippery slope concern and pointed to the university recently awarding an honorary degree to Republican Senator Katie Britt. For the record, Tuskegee runs a program called the Golden Tigers Community Closet. It was started in 2023, and that provides students with new and gently used business attire. Students noted that That many of their peers cannot always afford a fresh hairstyle or new clothes and ask critics to donate to that closet rather than just attack them online. The newsletter that reported these student interviews, what I'm reading, ⁓ says the university did not respond to its request for comment before publication. That is the news. Now let's talk about it. So I'm gonna have a few different thoughts on this. So ⁓ Jubilee, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. I'm grateful to be here on the colored side. ⁓ I wanna open this up wide, right? I wanna I just wanna know, you know, what was your first honest reactions when you saw all this? ⁓ and before you had time to form what we call the smart take. ⁓ I want both your gut reaction and then we can complicate things from there. Yeah. What was the gut reaction? It it bothered me. I said, Well why we gotta be police like that? Like why they policing the students like that? And then I thought, and what data are are you using to inform this policy? You know? So I'm like, ⁓ do they have evidence of graduates not showing up dressed appropriately to interviews and workspaces, you know, like w what happened that caused the president to turn this into a policy and I know it existed prior to, but to be to offer more specificity around it, to put more teeth in it and say for all the was it the new class, the new freshman class, the largest class they've had in the past since thirty two years ago. ⁓ that this is how you need to show up and you need to show up in a suit. Like what what? So it just it it my gut reaction was, this is ridiculous. Like let let the let the kids go to class how they feel comfortable going to class, teach them appropriateness. There's a time and place for everything. So you know you're not gonna wear a bonnet, right, a a do rag to a job interviewer to work, right? Depending on what you're doing. and yeah And then I had questions like what was the data that was used to inform this decision? I would love to hear if there was any, which I haven't read that there was any. So I go I mean my my my reactions were to take a beat and get those details because I know how these things kinda blow up and I used to be very active on campus. So I I'm of multiple minds on this. I'm not really upset with a private university that has that's setting whatever they feel like a standard should be. Also, you all people that out there know, well, people that watch this show know that I'm a W.E.B. Du Bois and Booker T. Washington scholar, which when you study both of those men, there's a lot about HBCU and what our education looks like and normal school and things like that, and like what's the true purpose of it. So I knew I I I initially took a step back because Tuskegee is a very You know, it's a prestigious black private institution. And I know where their pride kind of comes from and I know what they're trying to get people to do. I'm also completely fine with students having an issue and organizing and pushing back. I'm I I made my bones ⁓ on college campuses pushing against administrations and it taught me a lot of lessons. And and the things that I push back on, even maybe I'll go grab some of those articles wap before this episode is over. But, you know, what I pushed back on then as hard as I did, you know, now I'm older, I'm in a different space. I think that pushing back gave me a lot of organizing ⁓ experience and going through processes and how you start movements. And we may have overreacted just a little bit on what they were asking. So I actually see it both ways and I'm okay with it playing out. Where I'm not okay and why I'm glad we're doing this episode here. Is when caricatures start or it becomes this black on black kind of beef and crime thing or whatever or issue. ⁓ and there are like I think a lot of larger issues that are happening in in the world right now. There's a lot that's happening, but also HBC user and the crosshairs, whether it's Tuskegee. ⁓ I just did something on, I just talked about Howard. ⁓ there's you know, Howard just let go. You know, they rescinded, you know, 500 students ⁓ because of some ear some errors that were going on with financial aid. So, you know, I I had some thoughts, but I wanted to try to cover this story, you know, with that nuance and stuff. So, but I'm glad when I got the call from you and I got the text, I was like, okay, cool. Like, let me, I want to do this with her because Drew, we don't get to do this a lot on the other show. But I always appreciate there's a yin and yang feature that you and I have. But I really always do respect where you come from. I think we kind of balance out certain conversations. I think that I think that you have just a naturally good heart and a great heart for us as black people. ⁓ and I think you have a heart that's aimed towards youth. And I also know that you have two young sons, one of which will be entering college very soon, and one will be coming right after him. So I also am very interested in your take on this stuff. As a mother who's had to work damn hard to get these boys where they where they are. ⁓ and you know, so so that's why I was really just I thank you for for for pushing me and nudging me for us to do this this talk. So that that that's my thought on it. That was my initial thought. That was your initial thought. No, thank you for for bringing that up because that's the other side now. You might hear this and be like, but I thought you just said, but here it is, right? I was born and raised, you know, Brooklyn, New York. My parents are West Indian, okay? My mom is Jamaican, my dad is Trinidadian. My mom was never trying to hear us go outside and head scarves. It don't matter. You just got a doobie, you got your hair pins in, too bad for you. You go into the corner store, you gotta do your hair. You gotta put on clothes. You make sure your your your face is washed, you brush your teeth, like you all you go outside, even if you ain't going nowhere, you always go outside like you going somewhere, period. And that's how I've raised my sons, you know. And so my sons, if they would go ahead, they would not be participating in the ⁓ do rag and like I wouldn't want them to, right? But I also know this these are older, this these are not children, these are young adults. And so I'm in this the the crossroads here because now my my sons are fifteen and Sydney's about to be seventeen in September, where I ask them, I push them around, how do you want to be perceived? Right? I teach them that perception does matter. Right. First, you're dressing for you. Right? What what it what is it that you like? That's your own style and all that cool. But then you have to interact with the world. And you have to go outside. You have to be in community and you have to collaborate with other human beings to get ahead in life, to do whatever you gotta do. No man is an islander to himself. So that being said, respect to your culture, respect to your your style and all of that. And also, how do you want to be perceived, right? ⁓ what is the message that you want to send about who you are? what you carry, where you are and where you're going. Right? Like so Sydney got sworn in, ⁓ it's been like about a month now. ⁓ we didn't have to have no back and forth on whether or not he needed to wear a suit. He got sworn into what? This is a different show. Sworn into ⁓ yes. My son had been sworn in as the forty sixth student member of the Board of Education for Prince George's County Public Schools. He is a board member. And ⁓ he ran a whole campaign on his own. He got elected by the votes of ⁓ his ⁓ peers and ⁓ and so now he is a board member. And but we've had to have several conversations about ⁓ like one day for example, we had to go to the main administration building. That boy had on ⁓ a t shirt with some shorts and come on, let's go. I said, The hell we is. We're not going nowhere. Cha ⁓ no, it's summertime. I'm not going to it said ⁓ it doesn't matter. It's an official building. Where official business is conducted. You are in an official role, so you don't have no dress down days when you're going there. If we go into great adventures or six flags, that's one thing, but you you know, you need to dress appropriately. He had a little, you know, teenage thing about it, but he went to change his clothes. so anyway, I saw that to say that these are these are real conversations, but for me it's like I don't I don't wanna say, ⁓ bonnets are not appropriate, do rags are not appropriate. I think it's more of a time and place thing. And that's why this becoming a policy more than let's make sure that our that this generation is thinking, you know, critically about how they are representing themselves more than us telling them how they should represent themselves or what's appropriate or what's not. So Yeah, I will say this and ⁓ one, congrats to to to young Sydney. ⁓ Thank you. I'm the older brother too, so I get it. ⁓ but ⁓ but I I will add this though, because you you you had a line in there earlier, and I meant to put in my response. You said it's not like they don't know how to dress for for a job or to do whatever. I run I run two companies. Okay. I have a nonprofit, ⁓ and I have another one. I promise you everybody does let me just say. Things are not the it's it it's not as common sense, I think, as people think. Like I think people dress in different ways and you know, like, ⁓ and I a you know, and and honestly the West Coast and the East Coast is very different from Alabama, it's very different from the South. And being somebody that grew up that was born in the Chicago area, lived in Kentucky and then grew up in Oakland, I saw those stark differences. And I remember even living in Kentucky And living in poverty, but like on Sunday, everybody like you're you're dressed, like you're dr you know, you getting, you know, or you're showing up to supper with somebody and you getting dressed with for that and and and it's a it's a big source of pride. I think ⁓ I think there are some places that are bringing dress codes back and trying to clean that up, but my it made me ask a larger question, like you said. What has been happening in the ether that has made this this president Feel like he needs to de double down on it. What does he want to do? And again, I'm never mad at elders that are putting their hopes and dreams into younger people and they want to see them represented in a certain type of way. Like I I I I get it. I I don't, I I don't, I don't, I really don't have a side on it either. You know what I'm saying? Like I think, I honestly think everybody is arguing what they're supposed to argue. I think that the adults that run this school. That probably brought boosters on campus or people or or was showing parents around on campus or was trying to do certain things and went into a public space and saw some stuff that they didn't deem was that they didn't like. That they didn't like at all. You you know, you're talking about, you know, Alabama got Cotillions, they got, you know, D9, they got Jack and Jill. Like they have like, you know, these are people that dress. And I'm also Understanding young people. College is where I want to rebel. I want to be young. I want to be able to express myself. And it you could have told me that I can't wear suits. And I promise you, there would have been a group of students that would have been like, Man, fuck that. I'm wearing suits every day. You know, it's just it's just it's just a it's it's what you're supposed to go through in your maturation process. It is the part where I am I am leaving my mother and father at home. I'm finally out on my own, I'm by myself. Yeah and and and I'm going through this interesting thing with authority and and and and who's the man and who is all that stuff. So again, I'm not really mad at anybody. I think Yeah. You know, but I I it it was just funny to me that this has been nobody brought up that this was this was already on the books. The first person I saw bring up that t that piece was Michael Harriet on on Facebook. I'm friends with him on Facebook. We ain't friends in real life. I saw him speak somewhere The brother accepted my friendship. I don't want to make it seem like we're homes. Right. But but but but I saw him adding that. And I've just been interested in the discourse that's been online. So let me let me let me ask you this though, right? Like, what do you think this story is actually about? You think it's about clothes, you think it's about professionalism, respectability, culture, HBCU, tradition, institutional like there's a there's a lot of different things. So why don't you Yeah. You do me a favor and name the different things that people are arguing about beneath the surface of this dress code thing. Yeah. I mean, I think in in in Culture Land, this whole bonnet ⁓ more than the do-rag, 'cause the do-rag, we could take that all the way back to the nineties, okay? But bonnets had just made it up on the scene. I think I remember ⁓ there was something around Cardi B traveling and she had a bonnet on and it there was a whole conversation. I I think Monique ⁓ the comedian ended up responding to it. It it was a whole thing about bonnets and whether or not, you know, ⁓ black women, right, or or Hispanic women should go out and wear bonnets when they're traveling or whatever. So it it it it sparked this whole conversation. ⁓ and so I didn't really land anywhere on that because I'm like it's your personal personal preference and it depends on what you're trying to communicate. But so I think one it's about culture. I think it's about the things that perhaps this president perceived as things that are probably wrong with our culture, right? Or that have become accepted that should not have become accepted. Because you didn't list ⁓ that you can't have a t-shirt that says something derogatory on it, or you didn't talk about the poly it's already in the policy. It's in the policy. It's in the policy, but what I was what I was reading was the letter to the parents, which it that didn't highlight that, right? It highlighted bonnets, do-rags. b ⁓ slippers. I don't know if it said anything about, you know, pajamas. It did mention something about attendance. It did mention something about the cell phone policy. So I think they just kinda tried to bundle all the things that was like these are things that are hurting us either they're hurting our image or they're they're hurting our productivity, our learning experience. So we're gonna try to set this thing right with all these newbies that are coming in. We and so that's why they got you know that notification. ⁓ so I think it's about trying to right some wrongs that perhaps this president thinks exist within our culture. And I also think it's it is about preparation. I could see where you're going when you're saying, all right, the workforce, you all gonna get jobs and we need to know that you know how to dress. But the approach, and I guess we can talk about that later, I'm like, why d why go this route and try to make it more Well let's stay here though. Let's let's let's stay here though because I'm gonna push a little bit. I I I don't I don't think that's why he did. I think the reason why he didn't name the the shirt with derogatory things on it is because that's not what he's been seeing an abundance of happening. What I think is that since he took over, I think he walks on his campus and I think he sees do-rags and bonnets. I think he's getting complaints from professors that kids are not showing up and when they do show up, they on their phone. ⁓ and again, I think we also coming off of COVID. I think we're coming off of like a lot of these young people that are in this group or that's about to graduate or coming in. I think they're trying to break some things that may have happened like right after COVID when people came back and things might have been laxed because we just want to welcome you back and have you here. Yes. But I think I I I don't think a president does things like this unprovoked. I think So why not name it then? I think I mean I it was named to me. That's what I'm saying. Like I I I read that as this is running rampant, and I I need it to stop. I and I need us to be professional. That's how I I saw it. I think that's how some parents were taking it. I also think that there were parents that might have been visiting the school and and probably gave feedback. I I mean, but again, I'm not, I I I just don't, but but you asked why aren't all these other things listed? I think he just listed what was actually happening, what he actually went was seeing. And I think, you know, he was like, hey, I'm the president. I got some power, I got some agency. Check this out. Let me let y'all know what we're not gonna do. And I think we've seen that before, right? You've been at a job, you've been at a school where stuff is kind of listed. Like maybe there's a no bubble gun policy at your high school, or maybe there's a no cell phone policy or or Walkman, but we've been Walkman. I took I took us to the nineties. Or, you know, listen to music or whatever. And maybe we've been laxed on it. And then something happens and it's like, okay, all right, we get we we about to tighten this thing up. So again, just to play devil's, like I said, just to play devil's advocate, because I don't necessarily disagree with any of the sentiments. ⁓ but again, we're talking about a private university that can do and make whatever rules they want, ⁓ and they're enforcing something. The other thing I'll say is this: I fly a lot. I fly a lot. I just flew back from Vegas and it wasn't this Vegas trip, but it was another Vegas trip. I saw them n kick off the plane, two women, one was black and one was white, because we was coming from Vegas. They was a little intoxicated and ain't They had it was like a it was like a brawl top, ⁓ and like the the the pants, it was like the shorts that's like I don't know what they call, but like it's like a step above like boxer shorts, you know what I'm saying? Like, and they were friends and they were drinking and they was, you know, you could tell they was doing like a little ⁓ matching thing, and they were like, absolutely not. Absolutely not. And I remember it being like super controversial. But was it the test or was it the intoxication? But was it I think what was it? think well, one, for us on the plane, I didn't I we didn't know they were intoxicated until they were told to get off, and then you could hear it. You could you could you could hear it. But they were told to get off, and you know, you had you had kids and and you know, it was kids and stuff on the plane, right? And and and and and parents on the plane. So again, somebody could say, Well, it's my I you I can dress, I can do this. And they what they did was they cited the policy. Hey. You know, p p air airplane policy clearly states blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's at our discretion and right now, you know. ⁓ and I think they first asked him to cover up. I think they said, Hey, do you have a jacket? Do you have something? They were trying to do it discreetly, and then they got loud and then they got kicked off the plane. So, ⁓ and then the whole plane turns against you because you know they always do that, hey, if if we're not able to handle this, we will deplane and have the you know, whatever. And so everybody in the plane is like, man, you know So I'm just saying, I don't know if this is a thing that's only relegated to college students. I don't know that this is a I think, I think sometimes we assume that this is just some stuff that might just be happening ⁓ for, you know, to to young people or whatever the case is. You know, I was talking about like you watch old movies where it's Pan Am and people used to get dressed up to get on a plane and do those things and you know, and that's not really the culture as much anymore, right? People wear pajamas on planes or something comfortable. I will tell you, I tend to sometimes I do like to wear like a be be dressed on a plane. It makes me feel good walking through there. I like ⁓ you know, I I used to want to get on a plane a lot when I was a kid and kids see you in the on and they like, ⁓ who are you? Do you play basketball? I don't play basketball, sir. ⁓ I don't, I'm not a singer. I'm a scholar. But there are other times when I gotta, you know, I gotta catch a flight tomorrow or Sunday, and my flight's at 5 a.m. That means I gotta be up and be at the airport at like 3 30. ⁓ I'm pr I'm probably not gonna not gonna be dressed up. I'm probably gonna have on like some some sweat, like a sweatsuit or something to be comfortable. So, you know, part of that part part of that conversation is is I see Tuskegee, they want to be able to say, Hey, it's like it's I'll say this. You when you when you meet a Morehouse man, yeah, you just know he's a Morehouse the same way you meet a Spelman woman, like those institutions put a lot of pride in and an an investment in you displaying yourself in a certain type of way. And I think Tuskegee is is is just on that same note. But your thoughts? Yeah, I'm not I'm not really mad at that. I get it, right? It's like it's part of the the institution's brand, right? I I get it. Right. You want people to be able to associate a certain you know ⁓ the way that a person shows up presents ⁓ speaks, thinks, and all that to be associated with your organization and for whatever that thing is to be good, right? To be to to ⁓ to be a good way to represent the organization. So I get that. I just think like I think to your earlier ⁓ question, this is the president trying to turn the ship around, right? After after years of watching the this kind of stuff play out. But I ⁓ the question still is, I don't know How much of this is really happening on campus, which is why I'm like, then name it, right? If if you're saying that you're walking around campus and this is what you're seeing, you go to a classroom and there's ⁓ 30 students in the classroom, 28 out of the 30, have on either bonnets or do-rags, right? And not just that you notice that, but that also when you get your numbers back from the ⁓ corporations that you usually partner with for internships and you know, your students were ⁓ you know, receive more rejections or denials or less opportunities as a result of that because they were lacking the skill set to interview properly, ⁓ prepare themselves properly, present themselves properly, etcetera, then I get it. Now you have a data point to turn around and say we have to turn this this ship around, right? And this is the Tuskegee way. Like I didn't I really didn't hear any of that in the letter to parents. So it just sounds like we gon' we gonna change this, or I don't like this, I don't like this, I don't like that, and I don't like that, and we go and this is what the policy's gonna be moving forward. So I think maybe that could have landed a bit more ⁓ differently. if it's like I'm we're trying to galvanize this this class of students that's coming in ⁓ to embrace and to represent and to buy into the Tuskegee way. And that they will see the benefits of this in four years or you know, six years if if they choose to do grad school. yeah. So I don't know. I I that piece is just it's missing for me. I think that it's what so many institutions do, right? Like just fix this, don't do that no more, don't do that anymore. And it becomes ⁓ something that just feels restrictive rather than empowering. ⁓ and then it takes away the choice of the students that are the ones that actually have to abide by, you know, whatever this is. And then looking at the cell phone policy, you asked me my initial reaction earlier. I was also pissed off at that because I can't stand when organizations put stuff in place that's almost impossible to enforce or that's really gonna detract your attention away from what matters most, right? Ha you said in this letter, when they go to class, they gotta turn up their cell phone. Couple of things. Okay. How you gonna how you gonna how you gonna reinforce that? How you gonna enforce that? One. Two, are the professors gonna turn off their phones? Like, is that what we really need to be talking about? So these sort of fast track solutions, they don't work. They don't work. And that's why I it was pissed off. It's like you just, you know, you sign the thing, you make it a policy, it's whatever, and then it usually i is ⁓ i i it it's upon the it's the responsibility of the professor. Right, to now have to enforce whatever this is. And so instead of taking time to delve deeply into some text, some meaty text that's, you know, gonna get a great discussion going or deepen their understanding around some kind of issue that they need to be talking about related to whatever they're studying, we the the professor's gonna be up there talking about, hey, row three, C four, ⁓ is your phone on? No phones allow like Take your do-rag off. Take your body. That that again. That happened. We don't have time for that. Well, I'm I'm it happens though. And again, no, I I think I don't I don't think that you're just sitting there policing. I think that what has been happening is, and I say this because I I've I lead I lead undergrad classes. I led undergrad classes online and I've led undergrad classes in person. And then people just some people just be in the back just not paying attention on their phone and the professor, hey man, hey Come on, man, put that away. Like, or or I need you to listen. Or if you don't want to listen, you can leave. I think that's kind of how it plays out. And when I leave stuff online, it's like, hey, for this section, we just need everybody on camera, or somebody they'll have their forehead on camera, or the chin. It's like, hey, man. And so again, I don't, I don't, I think they're trying to set a standard. I and again, I don't, I think you can look, if I'm a professor, if you and I are professors and we're leading a session, I don't really care about your cell phone per se. Right? Like I like keep it put on mute, you know what I'm saying? Have it around, like in case there's an emergency. The phone rings, you're still in the dope. You can like excuse yourself and go do whatever. But I think that it's there's been a lot of regression in some of these classes where it's like, like I see you with your headphones on, bruh, like while I'm teaching. Like that's just not acceptable. And I think the policy or reinstatement in the policy is to is to have your professors back too. So there's a professional Senate, like there's an academic senate. I I've been an academic senator as a student before. And so I used to hear the complaints of the other professors and teachers when I was a student, and it did give me a different perspective, right? Of what they're trying to accomplish and do. But again, I don't, on the other side, I'm not upset with students fighting the power. I think that they This is where you build up your organization skills. You want to be in conversation with this president about how things need to go. If you want to say, hey, you all are using this to deflect from these larger issues, that's what I did like that the student body brought up was there's issues of financial aid that student that people are going through, especially with HBCUs, has been, well, everywhere has been an issue. ⁓ but I know personally, you know, I got accepted into a lot of HBCUs and I got the financial aid package back. I was told one thing and then it was something different. And I ended up making a different decision because it was just it it was I was setting myself up for the Okie doke. It would not have worked out for me, especially especially when you added in out of state fees. But for them to acknowledge, like, hey, there's all these issues that we have with housing. There's bats in dorms. Like kids are 30 and 45 minutes away just so they can stay in school. So, you know, let's we can fix a lot of things at the same time. And to be honest with you. I feel like if I was the president and if you had the president and these young people and these students, I think there's a resolution here. I think it's like, hey, you know what, check this out. We can we can figure out these professional spaces and and and and work on that if and as you all really have a solution on deck around housing, around the the the the sanitary issues we're having at on campus, making sure that's that black students can go here and stay here. ⁓ and that safety i is is being established. I mean that's I think that's where you're gonna get a lot of real world experience if you if you're asking me, you know, but ⁓ but yeah, I I I don't you know I I I like where you were coming from. I gotta push on it a little bit though, you know. If you and to be fair, if you would have went all the way the other way, I would have pushed in the in the in the student way. to your point, like I I'm standing on both sides. I know for a South Star class and you always like, yo, never pick a side. Because I see both. I just think when you're we we need the ⁓ the consumer in which is in this case is the student, right? ⁓ I guess that is well that's well don't lose it. It ain't the student. It ain't the student. Who are you parents? ⁓ because they paying they paying for it. Because they invest in. Okay. Listen, you about you about to send a boy off to college. All right. And you make a little bit of paper. You know, you might be doing I don't know what the fight hopefully he gets a great financial aid package. I pray to God a full ride. But let you have to drop a few thousand dollars every semester. And I w you and I that's when parents are like, I wish, I wish you would. Like, I wish. You know, like so I'm not paying all this money for you to be, you know, wompty womp and this and that, right? So I just wanted to just say that. Nope, nope. I I get it. I get it. I j all I'm saying is the the approach, right? Like if you're trying to get these kids to buy into this, ⁓ there's a different way to go about it. And I don't think that policies do that, right? Especially 'cause you're you're you you targeted this to the new class that's coming in, right? Cool. I mean I had a backpack when I was a freshman i in college and I didn't know 'til I was a sophomore that that's how they targeted knowing who all the freshmen were because only freshmen were book bags or kids. I had a backpack. I had a backpack through a a ⁓ a BA, a master's, and a doctor. What are you talking about? How was y'all carrying books? That's cool. No, not like it was ⁓ give up being cool. I'm trying to be a doctor. No, there was like a college kind of ⁓ bag that you could carry, and then it was a backpack that was very ⁓ high school coded, is is that's how I say it. And they basically would know, ⁓ yeah, stuh. That's Jans work for the win, baby. I had that. Jans fort. ⁓ my god. That was ⁓ good. It was rugged. In Chicago, did y'all ever have a thing on string wars on for jan sports? I don't know what I I one, I don't know what that that was. I can assume with the little strings in the back, but I I I remember I was a little, little kid when I was going to school in the in the Chicago area. I I came of age in Oakland. So I was I moved to Oakland when I was nine, ten. Okay, gotcha. Yeah. So did they have so no not familiar with in Brooklyn? Well it was really in New York and the in the boroughs, they had string wars for jan sports. So you have a jan sport you would get the strings that go on there and people would steal strings to the point where people started burning the strings ⁓ so that they wouldn't be stolen. But it was a big thing. Anyhow, so yes, I had a high school coated backpack, my freshman year of college. I'm saying all that to say that freshmen in college tend to probably do what administration says or whatever comes, you know, by way of their their families or what have you, more compliant, right? And These freshmen are they received their parents receive this letter, but they're joining the upper classmen, right? Who probably be looking at them like, why you keep up here in a suit on the first day of school? So all all I'm saying is there is a way to to get some some buy-in from students to and to ⁓ invite them into a conversation about how we could go f go forward and shift, you know, what has been happening. But I just have a feeling that. Perhaps it's not as daunting a of an issue in terms of the Bana and Durags as what has been, you know, shared by way of media, but we don't have any data points to say that. And I get it, the the cell phone issue. It's a problem it's a problem everywhere, so I I agree with what you're saying. And then the attendance thing got me because it says that you must come to class. Now that I don't have any pushback on that. You do You should go to class. Or your ass will be gone. Like you'll be up out of here. I mean, this is again these things didn't come out the blue. You get people early, you know what I'm saying? Let me let me get them before they tainted by this stuff and we about to crack down. You gotta start somewhere. But again, ⁓ I I'm not Upset with the young people. I think that that's I think they're doing what they're supposed to do. I think that they were offended ⁓ and and because there was a if they feel like it was a campaign against them when they mentioned that AI ⁓ kind of picture that kind of showed this ghettoization of of ⁓ of fictitious students. And I think that they should be offended by that, right? Like because, you know, like yo, we we think very highly of ourselves. And so look, I don't honestly I think it's all much to do about nothing. I think it's going to ⁓ that's why. I mean, I was always gonna cover it, but I I probably wasn't as super in a hurry because I was like, I think there are some more facts here. I think there are some things that are missing. and in the grand scheme of things, like, we can I can make it a bigger thing. I can make it about ⁓ this we just throw around anti-black too quickly, we throw around racism too. We just throw things around that I care deeply about that I've protested against, that I've been out on the front lines against, and I think that. When you oversaturate it or you make everything a level ten. Then nothing is gonna be a level 10. Like so there there's there's levels. I I'm really not mad at where they land on it, but to answer to ask you, right? Because you're a coach, you know, professionalism itself, like as a concept, you know, who builds the d the definition of it, who does it serve, and can preparing teachers for that world and questioning that world be true at the same time? So I'm throwing this to you as somebody who is a coach. What is your take on that? Yeah, ugh. It's always a tough one. I wanna say we built it but we all know that that came from, you know, the the the Wajites, you know, the ⁓ I don't wanna get ⁓ credit for things as like they don't get credit for anything. In America, they I mean we I mean if we were in Ghana, i what what what is professional or formal gar garb would be different, right? But we here in the I well, I can't say United States, but we here in America, ⁓ where a lot of things were were were ⁓ determined and built. and crafted ⁓ by white people and white white supremacist views. ⁓ what I can say though is it has morphed over time into what's acceptable, ⁓ like the fact that people can wear sneakers now without ⁓ being, you know, kicked out of a a professional ⁓ space, right? But I think We I think we've come to enough of a middle ground, especially ⁓ having dealt with like the Crown Act and and s and continuing to push against discrimination about how you can wear your hair and all of that. I think all of that fell into ⁓ professionalism. And I think as a coach, I always talk about appropriateness and time and place because dressing a certain way or showing up a certain way isn't inherently right or wrong. It's just a way, right? But like, okay, if somebody's having a wedding, there's a way that they can specify how they want people to dress for their wedding. Is it black tie? Right? Is there and you show up according to what these people are are asking for if you are going to a business meeting like this letter from Tuskegee says, right? Which that's why I have a question. Like are we saying that our black children don't know how to show up for a in professional settings, don't know how to show up dressed up. But they're learning. But I mean but some some day, but they're learning. That this th this Yeah, this we want you to come learn. Like this what that's what they're saying. So you need a so you're saying but also so you need a policy for them to help learn? Like you couldn't just mo model model the way or put it as an expectation or set it as an expectation. But that that that's what you're doing. The policy is the expectation. That is the standard. Like I look I run a company, right? So I can say I want my staff to do X, Y, and Z. But at some point I have to codify that and it has to become part of the like just from an HR standpoint, it has to be an official policy. Like if if if you don't, it's just a suggestion. And and just for the other record too I mean, I don't think professional attire has to be necessarily suit and tie, whatever. Like if you if you're a Nigerian and and it's like a, you know, beautiful professional Nigerian regal like whatever, like I don't think that that triggers the negative things here. I think that they're fighting a they are pushing back against something very specific. I don't wanna put things on them. I think we're putting things on the president and the school. That's not necessarily there, right? I think again. You think they would accept Nigerian garb? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think, I think, I I think what like again, especially in a HBCU. I go, ⁓ Dr. Dr. Greg Carr is at Howard University, and every time you see him, he's dressed perfectionally, but he's always in like a ⁓ you know, in like beautiful African like ⁓ you know, that's that's that's his thing. That's what he wants. That's professional to him. He don't care if you in a he'll read on, I don't think he cares what you wear at all, but Professionally, he don't care if you're in a a a j a coat jacket or you know, from wherever your ancient land is, like, you know, the same way if you were in Ghana, they might have expectations. The garb just looks different, but it's like Yeah. Professionalism. You think the same would be true at PWI? I think it I think it has been true. I went to one. Like, and I think there were certain parts that we went in and I was expected to dress a certain way. I mean again, like I said, I think I'm not there I don't I don't Here's the thing. I don't have I'm not arguing against the the pre the the the the prevalence of of white supremacy culture and things like that but one reason I wouldn't have this conversation nestled in HBCU and this particular HBCU campus and it's a private university is We get to also have standards. Like the same way I'ma ride for these kids to push back and say, this ain't cool. I want to do this and I'm supposed to rebel against the power structure. I'm also now gonna throw that thing here and just saying, me saying that I want a standard ain't me being white. Me saying that I have a standard of what I when I went into my grandmother's home, there were certain things that she expected and that and that she respected, right? Like, and I just think that that's the same way if your northern cousins go down south, it's like. That that ain't white, it's just a different vibe here. This is why I love Spike Lee movies or Crookly. Like, you know, they the New Yorkers send their family down to North and South Carolina so you can go play with your country cousins and also kind of see these customs in the same way you send somebody from the south up to the north. Or when I go to California as somebody that lived in Chicago and Kentucky, and you see that nothing's really formal, not there's really no formal attire. And then you get grown and you go to a party in Atlanta or you go to a party in Alabama on Sunday. And it's like, ⁓ shit, like these black folks is, they dress to the nines. And then there's a part of me that's like, this is different. But I also revel in it. I think it's beautiful. I think it's beautiful. Like if I go to Brooklyn, I wanna feel like I'm in Brooklyn. When I go to Spike Lee's picnic, you know what I'm saying? And like I wanna feel the colors and the vibe, you know what I'm saying? I wanna feel like I'm there. Like it's a part of Taking in that culture and being like, okay, all right, cool. I I I can't okay, I got some gazelles. Like, let's go. We about to, you know, that that that's that's more so I again, I don't disagree with nothing that you're saying around it. The only thing I'm pushing back on, and it's not a pushback on you, because you're brilliant and I know exactly where your heart is, but and you're not doing this, but I think people that watch us. Will take these things away. Not us. I'm talking about in general, watch us have this discussion. I got you. I got you. Is that anything civil or anything with standard is automatically white supremacy. And I just and I know you're not saying that, but that's what I'm saying. It's like, it's like, nah, man. I I I also think I and I know I'm taking up a lot of space, but I'm a but I but I also just think that like there's something to be said about you gotta learn the rules so you can break the rules. Like I felt a certain way about having to wear a tie and all I played basketball. On game day, you gotta wear a tie. You gotta wear and we would all have like some oversized shirts and our daddy's ties or whatever, but it wasn't until somebody showed us, hey man, this is how you wear that shirt. This is how you tie a tie. This is how you this is what a suit that fits you looks like. And then I was we were surprised of this immense pride that we felt about it. But now I can freak a suit. You know what I'm saying? I can freak a suit. I can wear it in a traditional way, or I can freak it the way I'm freaking this outfit with some slacks, you know, some some Jordan ones, like some Travis. And then, you know, like doing some things on there. I'm still presentable, but still but I I'm still able to express myself. ⁓ that that's, you know, so I'll stop there. But again, I I I agree with you. I just it if you're not of our culture and you're hearing these conversations, it's easy to walk away and being like. Well damn, like, you know, I I'm just not giving white people all the cred all that credit. I think black people dress incredible. I love the way we dress and I love I love what you have on a day. Like I love like the like you dress, but you dress you you you you have you you you show your roots in how you dress, you show your sense of style, you show your individuality, but you're also be you're presentable in a lot of different environments. You know, and and and I think that that's but you know those rules. You know what's appropriate so you can actually freak it. And if you're not and and where else would you learn it? Like everybody don't grow up with that stuff in their house. Everybody don't grow up doing those things. So yeah. I I'm not mad at that and I agree. When I when I talk about white supremacist views, whatever, I'm talking about the root as it relates to this the formation of this country. Right. And why I brought up the Crown Act and kind of us being able to push back on certain things is because we finally got to a place where we could add our spin to it, right? And and and make it our own, right? So that our voice is included in what is acceptable professional dress, right? Because if we had left it to them, nothing we would ever wear would ever be professional. That's a whole nother story. Right. But to your point, at you asked about me me being a coach. I'll and I'll couple it with being a mom, right? Training is necessary. ⁓ and having those difficult conversations is also ⁓ is also necessary about like I get it. This generation wears hoodies on a day like today when you go outside if you go to wherever the young people at where you live, somebody gonna have on a hoodie, ⁓ all black sweats and all black, right? And hey I I don't think th that's really appropriate for a hundred degree wet weather. I think that's you know, knocking on the door of a heat stroke. But hey, that's what you decide to wear. And there's nothing in the environment pressing you to have to shift that. Right? But when we're talking about ⁓ our our Starbucks absolutely put the Starbucks in the hood absolutely says no shysties, no this, no seam, I'm a minute. You cannot yeah, you cannot be in our establishment with that on. Yeah. And that's what that's what I'm saying, right? So to me again it goes back to that Hard conversation of like, yeah, that's cool if you want to walk up and down your block or go wherever you want to go with your friends wearing that. But once you step into community, right? Like I said earlier, community, collaboration, connectedness with other human beings, standards, other people's standards, other organization standards become the the law of the day, right? Or the the rule of day. So you have to be able to lean with it, rock with it. You have to know, right? So you said you talked about knowing how to Rock a suit when when Sid went to ⁓ the Steve Harvey mentorship ⁓ foundation. I know that's the thing that they do. I know that's the thing they do. They took me. Okay, they talked the the the dream and Steve Harvey's ⁓ dream is his ⁓ acronym and the D is for discipline, R is for respect, and I forget the others, right? But one of the key things, if you don't know how to tie a tie, they're gonna help you learn how to tie a tie. They marched into the the graduation ceremony, right? And so not all of them had on ties, but whoever I guess was working on it, they had a tie around their neck so as to say like this is what I accomplished while I was here. I did other things, but I definitely learned how to tie a tie, right? And then in this letter to the families, it says, right, students are prohibited from wearing revealing clothing in class to the cafeteria or in official settings like convocation. Right? So that's all I I think them they went a little too far with the ⁓ wearing bedroom shoes, bonnets, or durags that you can't wear it to class or the cafeteria. Pete, you trying to roll into the cafeteria two minutes before a close so you can get your little waffle and eggs. But that's another story. Anyway, my point is time and place, right? And then making sure, right, as a coach, as a mom, as an educator, that our children, our students know how to do that. So that you can, you know, alternate. You can you can meet the demand of the environment that you're going in. Like that to me is is is more important. And I guess that is kind of the sentiment of this ⁓ this letter. I just feel like it's just not all the way there and I'm missing the the student voice in this. That's all. Look, I used to go to the club, I used to go out when I was young and your ass could not wear tennis shoes and you couldn't wear hats, or you not getting in to see beautiful girls shake their ass. So you know what you did? No hats, no babies. So you so you know what you did? You put it on. You had some hard bottoms in your in your in your car, you had some slacks, you have something. And then, you know, y'all gonna sweat it out anyway or whatever. But again, I'm not mad that a prestigious black institution is saying, I need you to give us at least the same reverence that you would give to the club. Like, and again, I think when you why do you send your kid to Howard? Why do you send your daughter to Spellman? Why do you send your son to Morehouse? Why do you send him to Tuskegee? There is something deeply rooted in the black experience. This is why I'm taking this white shit out of it. I'm not thinking about them. I'm thinking about us. And I'm saying, like, you send them there for a reason. You're sending them there because you have some kind of ⁓ racial political pride and reverence or exposure that you want them to have and want them to come out of. Like, and I can see a mom that's spending all the all that she got being like, I ain't spending this lane for you to come for you to learn how to be a better hoochie daddy or hoochie mama that just joined. Now again. I think kids are responding the way that kids should. They should, they supposed to rebel. But you know, I think but it's it's but that's what I'm saying, right? Like if I can give that respect to Starbucks, if I can give that respect and reverence to a club, if I can give that respect and reverence to Southwest Airlines, right. I can't give it I can't give it. I why can't I give it to one of our most historic black institutions that we have in a country that's losing black people in a place that's losing black people and you guys have your biggest class in 30 years. I see again, I'm not and I and it's just the way that the conversation is lining up because I honestly, if you came in on the opposite, I could be pushing in the exact same way that you are. I think that we have to show these balanced conversations with where everybody in the conversation has a deep love and affection for black people. But also can have different thoughts in ways about how it how it happens. I I just think that it's it's the the way I've seen the conversation go has been somewhat disheartening because it's turned into something a bit messier. And it's like, nah, man, you gotta respect these students and you gotta respect these these adults and you gotta respect the standard. And I and I just don't think standard has just becoming a bad word. And and I just I just don't like seeing that. That's all. We gotta we gotta maintain the standard. But can the messiness that you're speaking, can you just share a little bit about it? Like what's the messiness that you've been noticing? The messiness has been in both ways. It's been both directions, right? Like, like these kids disrespectful. These kids ⁓ you know, they ain't got no sense. Like the AI caricature of like what a student is, and I'm saying it's AI, ⁓ I do I do think there there's some deeply rooted racism that's there. ⁓ I th I I s and and it's just like you know, these people don't deserve anything good or whatever the case is. It it it takes a turn into that. On the other side of that, it's like, well, y'all trying to be uppity. Why the school trying to be white? Why they trying to do this? And I and what then that's where I push back when it's like having a standard, it's not like that's not a white thing. Like, you know what I'm saying? So like even it it it it's not saying what the professional wear has to be. It's telling you what it can't be. Which is again, so it's not saying that if you are Nigerian that you can't You can't wear a beautiful, you know, whatever it is. I don't know where Dashiki is, is let's just say African garb. Let's say if you want to I don't think they're stopping you for wearing a beautifully pressed, you know, dashiki, you know what I'm saying, into one of these classrooms. I actually I think it's a college thing to do. Is that's when a lot of black people go through their dashiki phase. Yeah, a different world. Yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? And that and that's but here's the other thing. Here's what I do know. And Tuskegee may already do this, but you tell them kids to put on a fashion show ⁓ and show their creativity, they gonna step out because it's in them. And and and and it should be. You get what I'm saying? So that that that's all, man. I I think ⁓ I think it's a little overblown. I think that there are ⁓ like like I said, ⁓ larger issues, but I think these kids got a leg to stand on when they're like, all right, cool. Hey, so guess what? I won't wear that, I won't have my ass out, but can you get the fucking bats out of the out of the out of the dorm? Yo, Howard, can I can can we keep Felicia Rashad in as as a staff member? And by the way, can we not have moldy shit like in our dorms? Can we not be breathing in mold in the most prestigious black university on our land? Because I hold Howard in deeper regard than I hold Harvard. And I and what I mean by that is is just because of what Howard represents to me. I'm not saying that Howard is a better institution than than Harvard or whatever. Like I'm just saying to me. And my people, I as the author of Ebony Towers, who wrote this thing, this beautiful piece about the importance of HBCUs. And I think HBCUs should become ⁓ charter authorizers and build many black-ish like high schools and middle schools that get kids ready for our institutions. I have a huge affinity for these institutions. But you gotta respect them. And they and and and if they feel like it's being disrespected, then you gotta command some respect. And and and but how do you do it? How do you do it in a way that is humane? ⁓ but also like this is we're not going for this. We're not going for that. How do we do it in a way that's humane? It's like, okay, they they're tapping on the professionalism here, fine. But And I don't think anything was inhumane from what I've seen thus far. No, I don't think so. But it just I'm always going back to like, okay, where are these students currently in internships? You know, what are their accomplishments? Like I I want to hear more about that. You know, I want I want to hear more about That. Well, we can look that up though. You can go find that. I mean, again, that's not the issue. Like, but that's not the issue. The issue is what they named. The issue is what they named, but what I'm saying is, what has the impact been, right? What what what because these students are quote unquote, because we don't have a data point, because these students have been wearing durags and bonnets to class, bedroom slippers, and whatever to the class and cafeteria, right? and Not showing up to class, which I already know that could have an impact, right? But let's just talk about the the the representation, the the dress, the dress code. What has the impact been, right? What what how how has it negatively impacted, if at all, the outcome for these students? I'm telling you, I'm telling you as somebody who works with young people every single day, young people that are becoming young adults every single day, I'm telling you, a large swath of them do not know. How to dress professional for work. I'm telling you, I'm telling you. I'm preparing people. I'm preparing people to give to for interviews. And I'm like, well, what are you gonna wear? Well, I'm gonna just wear this t shirt to da da da. Hey man, you're not wearing a t shirt, bro. We're not, we're not doing a t shirt, dog. Like we we we can't do that, bro. Like you gotta do something else. So ⁓ I'm t I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I've hired people and we're about to have a very important meeting. And it's ⁓ hey bro, what you wearing, bro? Like we can't can't can't wear that. We i i w w w come on man. I'm t I'm I'm s I'm this is not fully that's not fully out of nowhere. I'm not mad at it, but that is a good data point for me to understand. Yeah. I just I wanna hear President Brown, like d give give me some data so I can understand, right? So you're if you're saying, hey, look, we just wanna and that's what the letter is kind of saying, we're trying to prepare you for the workforce and all of that. ⁓ But when it c like I said, when it comes by way of policy, or you can't do this, you can't do that, it's not it doesn't really help to galvanize people or empower people. It's just like you can't do this, you can't do that. And it and it stings like and and then they're not a part of the decision making, right? Or their voices. Are you Greek? Are you Greek? Did you pledge? I'm not. I'm not either, right? But let's say, let's say you had a daughter and she's a AKA. Is she is she is she gonna wear red at an AKA meeting? No. Are they are they be is are they practicing white supremacy by being like, hey. They're not. You know what I'm saying? It's an expectation connected to the organization. I'm I I I get it. But but why this? Why here? Why now? And I guess what you're saying is the school's about to start and it's nowhere. I get it. And you still got ⁓ the upperclassmen who've been doing it. So I just I'm I'm interested in seeing how it's gonna play out. ⁓ But I also think by nature of sending this out, now it's becoming so public, it also sends a message that like, yeah, well, you come to Tuskegee, these kids these kids out here wearing slippers, bonnets, do rags, it's not talking about the brilliance of our kids. And I would have loved to hear more about that. Like, you know, like yes, it's the largest class, that's great, but what are the great things that Tuskegee students are doing? Like, so now it's this blown out of proportion article or whatever and conversation about what they wear. ⁓ versus their thinking. And I just I hate that 'cause I think that that happens a lot with us and and it gets our brilliance gets overshadowed shadowed by these other pieces. No, I get it. And again, and and what I would just say to everybody involved, pick your battles. What what's the battle that you wanna have, right? And what's the hill you wanna die on? And if this is the one, God bless, you know. But I think but yeah, i i I think there's a lot of stuff that comes out about tusk ⁓ schools are constantly Excuse me, putting out their wins, putting out what they're doing well and things like that. This wasn't something that was supposed to be public. It was something that was like, hey, this is just you coming in, here's your here's what we need to do. And somebody took it and they ran with it and it and this caused outrage. ⁓ like I said, I I'm not mad at it. I would say, young people, pick your battles. Like, if what's the battle that you want to have? I think you do have a real battle. I think you could add this in there, but like housing, financial aid, quality of classes, let's go. Am I being pr really set up for the real world and what that looks like? Am I being set up to run a business or to do X, Y, and Z, right? ⁓ and I would say to the faculty and to the to the president, pick your battles, right? Like, okay, what you know, what this is something old that was not being enforced. Now we're enforcing it and I'ma stand on that. But like What's the best way to do it? Again, I'm not when I say, Jube, I'm not mad at either side in this per se, I'm not. This is just the simple things that happen on the campus. These are the simple struggles and battles that happen, you know? ⁓ and at PWIs, let me because it ain't about to just be black people only ones having these problems. White schools got a free the nipple thing happening all the time. All the time. All the time. There's always some little white girl fighting at Princeton because she don't want to wear a bra and she wanna wear a a thing and her nipples are showing and the professor is like, no. But you and it's a pro but it's a problem. And and again, but they deal with their problems too, is what I'm saying. I just don't want to see we ain't the only one with these problems. Yes, and and it's selective policing, and don't equ we didn't even talk about gender, okay? Okay? Because the the g the whole gender piece around what women can wear is so that men can feel more comfortable. Like so don't get me started. That's a whole nother thing, right? Like to be fair, all women's schools have similar policies as well. Just for the record. I don't I don't believe that. You gotta show me. You gotta make me show me. I'm just I'm just making a point. I'm just what I'm the point that I'm making is is one, this ain't just an issue that happens at black schools. ⁓ two, there's beef at white schools between teacher and professors all the time about this stuff. ⁓ and I just think, you know, it's just one of those things where we're just at a time in the country that things that should be a policy conversation and we move on, you disagree, you agree, you ain't gotta go here. You can do his, you can whatever. Cool. I think there are bigger issues that's being skirted. I think that literacy is dropping. I think college classes is l are losing ⁓ it's it's it's the rigor that's happening. I think that kids there there was just something that I think it was about Harvard. I'll I'll check where some where ⁓ it's in the ⁓ I think Omar dropped it in our group, but I read it to us in the Atlantic about the de basically the end of literacy. ⁓ and one of the examples or case studies I think was a student at Harvard or one of these Ivies and they just could not read a there was just a simple story. And it's like you supposed to be the best of the best. Like And your and and your comprehension without AI is crazy right now. Like you can't you can't do this thing. So again, I I I just think that we're focusing on other things when there's like we all gotta pick our battles. What are the battles we wanna take into 2026, 27? What are the things that we wanna see? What what where where do we want this stuff to kind of go and move towards, right? Like, ⁓ but I will say, like Somebody who has been on both sides of these things, somebody that's had to set policy, somebody that's trying to build a standard and set a standard, you gotta sometimes be annoying. You gotta sometimes be like, I know y'all don't want to hear us. And I don't, I would wish I wouldn't have to say these things, but obviously, you showed up to this thing like this. I gotta say it. It gotta be a policy. I gotta have it on record. So when we doing a HR thing, or when I'm hiring, or when I'm getting a contractor for Dr. C C or I'm like, yo, here are the expectations. I didn't used to have to say these things, but in this new f finangle world, I gotta say it. I gotta e g I gotta say some shit that's obvious. Yes. You know, and it just cause ain't nothing ain't nothing obvious no more. Yeah. So I I could say this is what I say, right? And I'm going on this is straight mother, right? This is me as a mom. There is no if and a buts about How my kids leave this house. ⁓ there's not. ⁓ no, there's not. There's not one second. That's me and mine. That's me and mine. I don't want to hear shit. I don't want to hear nothing. Okay? Right? Like I told my son, I said, look, you know, and I say it to both of them, but even Sydney more so now because he has way more meetings, way more interviews, mate, way more public appearances. I'm like, you gotta stay ready so you ain't gotta get ready. But that's my philosophy, period. Whether he's you're in a public position or not, you stay ready so you don't have to get ready and make sure that anytime you step out, you are you can ⁓ walk out with pride, right? And and present yourself in a way that aligns with your values, that ⁓ that represent you properly, your family, and the God you serve. So that's that. That's how I raise them. Now, prayerfully, you know, raise up a child and the way they should go and when they grow old they should not depart. Right? But yeah, that's great if we had like institutions, I don't know. maybe historically wrecked institutions that maybe felt the same and was like, there's a standard because I'm somebody's parent too. I don't know, but continue. I'm sorry. I don't know. Like so I see a standard versus like a policy. I don't know. May I think it's just the approach. Like I believe in preparing my kids for professional environments. Like my sons, they have to know. They know they gotta know the difference, right? And that's my responsibility to let them know that there is a difference because it it That would be on me if they go to a place in in a sweatsuit like my, you know, they skipped me over, they didn't give me a job. You think that she went to a a Forbes one hundred company in a sweatsuit and they wasn't jacking it. Like, so it's my responsibility to teach. And I think as community, as adults, as educators, it is our responsibility to teach. But I also think, ⁓ alongside that, we we have to give space for decision making. Like I think that's the piece. Like to so to your point. ⁓ I don't know like the the the the employees that you were talking about, whether they were trained or not. I don't know if they were trained, if they were not, or you had to give them the feedback as an employer for them to understand that okay, this this dress is not appropriate for where we are, right? So I I am saying I believe in teaching, you know, standards and holding my own kids to standards and if I'm, you know, your leader, your principal, whoever, yeah, I'm holding you to a standard. I just think there's something about this this letter, this approach. ⁓ that that didn't really sit right with me, even though I see where even though you just ended with I ⁓ I absolutely do the same thing in my home. Got it. I just j I love that we did all that to come. I I will say this and ⁓ before we close. I don't know if I talked to you about it or if it came up on South Star, ⁓ but there was this thing. I don't know if I talked to you, but I probably wouldn't didn't bring it up on South Star. But there was this situation where a professional woman was on camp on on this high school campus and ⁓ This girl had on some revealing stuff. And she just thought that Noah don't say nothing to her. And she finally asked the teacher. I'm butchering the story, but I'll find the official thing, but you'll get the gist. And she asked this old black man, Why haven't you corrected this, you know, this girl? Like, why haven't you, like, you know, for safety? And he said, ma'am, I I I retire in less than a year. and if I go and I s and I Reprimand or correct what this young lady has on as far as her attire, and then I gotta she's gonna get loud and it's gonna be look at this creep, look at this or whatever. And then there's a good chance that a ⁓ an older version of her comes up to the school and says the same thing. I just I just don't need them type of problems. So I don't know if we were talking about that, but again, this is where we are in standard world. Right? Like where it's like, okay, a fifteen year old is out here, you know, what they feel is inappropriate or whatever the case is, and then it's like, Well, you a man and th and this and that and the third and why you paying and Who are you are you upset with the with the with the with the pr with the brother, with the teacher? Are you you know what I'm saying? Like it or or do you fully understand what that man is saying and then let's now apply it to like the larger thing of this conversation. I'm just curious about that. Listen, I think they asked the wrong person the question. Where does good what a young lady parents at? With she at the school. But again, she in his classroom. She they ain't here right now. I'm calling your parents. And that's a whole nother we need to have another show on that because we talk about the need for black male educators in this country more than ever before. But there is such ⁓ a murky, murky water. Well, you set up it's a setup, man. It's a setup when you the black teacher in there. Okay. The black male teacher. Yeah, so I maybe I'm not gonna talk to Lil' Sophia or whatever the young lady's name is. you know, one on one because that puts that puts me as a black male, you know, teacher professor at risk. But you got parents though. You got we ⁓ emergency b blue card at I'ma call that but you heard wait a second. I told you you missed the you missed you leave not the second parent. When he calls the parent, we said he said and ma'am, I'm less than a year away. So when I call that parent, there's a very good chance from experience that that parent will come with the same mindset And it's just not my kid, not my hey, you know, do you you know what I'm I'm just saying. I think it is ⁓ it's real. I it it is real, but I'm saying and for the people listening, I'm not saying that's the majority. I'm not saying that that happens every day or whatever, but I am talking as an educator, talking to another educator, and we both completely understand ⁓ what what where that man was coming from. I just thought it was interesting story for this for this topic. It is, and it's right. I listen, I This is what I'll say. I I believe in preparing children for ⁓ the professional environments. I do. I really do. I believe in standards. and we have ⁓ everywhere. Everywhere. It's a global thing. It's global and so I th I I think we owe it to our kids to let ⁓ know, right? Period. If they're if it ain't if it ain't here, it's gonna be in South Africa. If it's not in South Africa, it's gonna be in New Zealand. If it's not at home, it's gonna be at the airport. If it's not at the airport, it's gonna be at a restaurant, you know? So you gotta wear you gotta stare it at McDonald's. ⁓ so and they make you pay for it, by the way. I used to work there as a kid. No, I'm saying even if you work at McDonald's, hey, this is the this is the uniform. You go get go buy that. Yeah, and you pay it's coming out your check. So yeah. Right, that part. So I believe I believe I also believe institutions should be just thoughtful about how they communicate expectations. This letter, the bundling of the dress code plus the attendance, plus the Turn off your cell phones. I I think you get to say that. I I I just think you get to you get to say that. You get to look, I gotta you gotta turn off your phone in a theater. You gotta turn off your phone at a comedy show. You gotta why wouldn't you have to turn off your phone or at least silence it in an institution of value? Silence it. Silence it. Yes. But we act like like like cell phones, we society has lasted much longer without cell phones than they have with them, is what I'm saying. Like you can You you you look man, don't have your phone going off in church. Don't have your phone going off when I'm lecturing. Just just be right. So be responsible, but turn But apparently, but Jude, but you but you missing is that this didn't come out of thin air. This didn't come from nowhere. I don't think that this request is a realistic It absolutely is realistic. Hey man. And again, be smart, put your shit on mute. If I s but if you interacting with your phone and mess with your phone and we catch you, you gotta go. That reasonable. Reasonable. But that's all that's all the policy saying. Like, yeah, it it leaves the decision as the choice of the user to modify. You telling me I as a student in this class that every I got a class that's ⁓ class ⁓ schedule that's gonna go from eight AM to five PM and you want me to turn my phone off. You no no, you turn it you in class. You can check your stuff on the way to your next class. We just need you to turn off in class. This generation. That's what they're telling you to do. Because because again, this generation that came up using phones, they was using phones in utero. This generation, you want to still set a standard. But why that I don't think that's realistic. And I don't think that it is enforceable. I think that puts more weight on the I think it's definitely enforceable. I've seen it enforced. I've been in a room and it's enforced. Like I've seen it. Yes. Without what's probably happening, I don't know how many of them actually turn the phone off. Turn your phone your phone off. But but but again, they're not but don't be disrespectful in your phone while you have this professor lecturing in this lecture hall. Simple. But but again, I I mean, you know, I I love this. We c we could do this more. You are I will say this in front of the general public and to you. You are welcome back anytime. Anytime you got a type of you want so don't be like I ain't getting I ain't getting invited. You are you are that's what you said. That's what you said. I'm just t you just talked about the delivery of the policy. You just talked about the that's how you came on. You said, you know, I haven't got I didn't know if I could be on this show. I didn't I've never been asked and What? So I'm letting you know. I'm just letting you know in front of the people. I love you, Jube. You can come whenever you want. We love having guests. Don't stop laughing at my name. ⁓ my God. I will say this though. I want you what's what's your final thought on this? And after your final thought, can you please tell people where to find your work? Or I don't know, maybe the other shows that you're on or the things that you do. Or you said you sing. Maybe tell people where you do that at. I don't know. ⁓ marketing is a thing. So let the people know, Miss Ransom. I as I said before, I I believe in preparing students for professional environments and teaching our children and students time and place and appropriateness. More than trying to put policies in place that force their hand, but I also understand the need for policies and ⁓ standards. That's one. Two, all right, like I said, I believe that how institutions communicate, right, it is important, right? They should be thoughtful about how they are communicating because that also sends a message as well: the how, not the what. Lastly, leadership is not about just setting standards. It's also about building trust, inviting dialogue. I would have loved to hear what the students themselves, you know, thought about this and whether or not they had input even before this policy was was created. Sometimes you get more buy-in, a lot of times you get more buy-in by including ⁓ your stakeholder in the decision making. Just saying, right? And so building trust, inviting dialogue, and ensuring policies are rooted in evidence aligned with the outcomes they attended to achieve. So those are my thoughts on that. And yes, I'ma still tell my sons, ⁓ you you you ain't gonna wear no do rag and no ⁓ little I forget with the little whatever the things they do to protect their hair, you ain't wearing that to ⁓ to class, no do rags. ⁓ Alright, so there's three ways you can stay connected to me. Right. So one, as Charles said in the beginning, I am the founder of Restart Edge. Give it just give me a moment before you start that, because I gotta I'm dealing with the with the with the the the ⁓ the the ⁓ The lack of consistency in the same sentence. I've just I'm just dealing with that. I got you. Go ahead. Go ahead. I love it. I love it. I love it. When they get to college, they're gonna have to make their own choices and I get it. The organization gets to set the standard. I get it. I I just anyway. I get you. All right. So three ways you can stay connected with me, Charles, whatever. Okay. ⁓ restart at executive coaching and consulting is my is my business. ⁓ and it's it's the way that I I give back. I'm able to pour into leaders. So if you are a principal, an assistant principal, a leader, ⁓ and you're looking for leadership coaching, mentorship, ⁓ or just practical professional learning that you can use ⁓ in your work on a daily basis, let's connect. You can find me on LinkedIn, Jubilee Ransom, ⁓ just as it is spelled here on the screen, or you can email me while my ⁓ website is under construction. You can email me at restart ed consulting at gmail.com. Also, Charles will be proud of me for doing this. I have my own inspirational talk show. It's called Morning Cup of Jubilee. So if you go to YouTube and subscribe to It's Jubilee TV, that is where you can see this morning show that I do every Wednesday, 7:30 a.m. And my music is also on It's Jubilee TV. And then thirdly, of course, I gotta plug our show, South Star Classroom, ⁓ every Tuesday, 3 p.m. Pacific, 6 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. And on that show we d we discuss education, leadership, the future of learning. We have thoughtful banter that challenges us and everybody else who's watching to think a little more deeply about education and to serve our students better. So Charles, thank you for having me. And I will be back. And I ain't never cry and say you ain't invite me. So whatever. No, no, it's all good. You like I you know, I didn't know I could get on the show and then it Okay. Well now you know. ⁓ my final thoughts are this. I actually don't really have a dog in this fight. ⁓ I'm not mad at the university for setting the standard and I'm not mad at students for pushing back. I'm personally not offended by do rags or bonnets. ⁓ as somebody who is an avid ⁓ do rag wear since I was ten, eleven years old, I probably wear one every single day, even still with my hair bigger, gotta still save the haircut. ⁓ it's a big thing. Haircuts are expensive now. They're not fifteen dollars no more. They're more like fifty fifty five dollars now. So ⁓ I definitely wear it. But again, ⁓ I think there's a learning experience in here for a lot of different people. I do appreciate the conversation. I just wish it didn't leak out and get so ugly. and I like that the conversation I want this conversation to stay inside and amongst black people and because we get to define what that future looks like. And I think there does need to be a merging of the youth and the elder. I I think that we we we all need each other. ⁓ and it doesn't have to devolve into a disrespectful conversation the way that I've seen it happen online. ⁓ I think that you know, set your standard university and in and enforce and I think students, if you feel like you've been disserviced and you're not getting what you need, I believe in agency. I believe that you protest it, you you make counter offers, you you negotiate, you say, Okay, we'll do this if you do this. Like I think that this is a real education, an academic moment. Like I said, I was ⁓ very much a rebel rouser on campus myself. I've led walkouts on campus. ⁓ Some of those things that I felt very strongly about at that time, I don't feel as strongly about now. That just comes with age and growing. But it was such a healthy and beautiful knowledge and experience for me that I that I always carried with me. And that's what college is about. It's about you being in new situations, new environments, and learning how to navigate. Because ⁓ you know, once you leave that institution, there will be much more ⁓ unforgiving ⁓ circumstances in the world that were not. Built directly for you and your beauty and who you are as an African person ⁓ in this country. ⁓ that's the other thing, right? Like this is an institution built by us for us. and and and I think young people, if if you are listening, when I say, you know, keep fighting it, you you don't have to agree with that. But if you can take a moment, you know, step back, think about some of the sacrifices people have made and and and and for you to be Blessed to be in that type of institution that should be treating you better as far as shouldn't have mold and bats and shit like that in your dorms, but you are in an institution that is catered and built around you. ⁓ and and and most people don't get to experience that. I've been to a lot of school. I didn't get to experience that. I went to state schools because that's what I could afford and that's what I could do. so with that being said, ⁓ I would love to thank you all for listening to colored commentary and a big huge thank you to my very bubbly. Beautiful, smart, and talented guest ⁓ who ribs me every time that we're on the other show. We do it to each other, but it's fine. ⁓ we did not do a check-in. That's what she loves. I think check-ins are stupid for the record. I think they're a waste of time, especially on a show that's only an hour long with four ⁓ w ⁓ individuals. You you you never get into the show. but Jubilee, we love having you. ⁓ And we would love to hear from you all. So please drop us an email at colorcommentarypod at gmail.com. That's colorcommentary pod at gmail.com. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe to the show. Leave us a five-star rating. Share it on social media. And come shop with us at charlescodathird.com. If you love all my agentic merch or my love languages agency or my love language self-determination, you can get all that stuff there. I know a lot of you have been buying that lately. Thank you so much. ⁓ some of those colors are out. They will be restocked soon. ⁓ and join us every Thursday for more color commentary with Dr. Cole. ⁓ and one last announcement before we all leave. We have been on every single podcasting platform since the beginning, but now our Apple podcast has been updated. So, like Spotify, the video is automatically added in. We could not go back and do it, but starting from this episode on, you will have all the video ⁓ live ⁓ that you can watch. ⁓ you can if you still enjoy watching on YouTube, please do, please share it. But for my Apple ⁓ podcast fan base, ⁓ you now have video. We heard you. It just took a while for it to get set up. ⁓ with that being said, y'all take care and we'll get at you. Peace.