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How the U.S. Military Draft Works · Stuff You Should Know

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from how Stuff Works
0:04
Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark,
0:13
Speaker 1: and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry over there.
0:16
Speaker 1: So this is Stuff you should know. Military edition actually
0:21
Speaker 1: more bureaucracy edition than anything else. Yeah, and I found this,
0:26
Speaker 1: uh for a bureaucratic episode. I found it way more
0:29
Speaker 1: interesting than I thought I would. Those usually turn out
0:32
Speaker 1: to be more interesting than you'd think. You know, Yeah,
0:35
Speaker 1: I can't think of one that we've done bureaucracy in
0:38
Speaker 1: the bureaucracy suite that wasn't like, this is surprisingly interesting. Yeah,
0:42
Speaker 1: this is this is pretty good. Yeah, agreed. Because I
0:45
Speaker 1: registered for the Selective Service, as did you, I assume,
0:49
Speaker 1: oh yeah, unless you're you've been dodging all these years.
0:52
Speaker 1: I finally made it, but I never really gave it
0:55
Speaker 1: much thought because dudes like you and I in today's
0:58
Speaker 1: modern era don't really you know. When I registered, I
1:01
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, whatever, this will probably mean nothing, but
1:04
Speaker 1: it's really interesting when you dig into it and what
1:06
Speaker 1: it could have met or could mean. When I registered,
1:09
Speaker 1: I was like wait, what what my what's going on here? Again?
1:13
Speaker 1: And my dad was like just just do it. It's fine.
1:16
Speaker 1: You'll get in trouble if you don't. I was like, Oh,
1:18
Speaker 1: I don't want to get in trouble. Was your dad
1:19
Speaker 1: in the military. Yeah, he was their force during Vietnam,
1:24
Speaker 1: right before Vietnam, because my dad did not go to Vietnam,
1:30
Speaker 1: and I think I always felt weird about it. He
1:32
Speaker 1: would never talk to me about that, but that's the
1:34
Speaker 1: sense that I got. Did you grow up in Canada
1:37
Speaker 1: for like the first part of your life or anything. No,
1:39
Speaker 1: but he was and as you'll find out throughout the
1:41
Speaker 1: course of this episode about the various deferments and exceptions
1:45
Speaker 1: and things, he was a lone breadwinner for a family
1:50
Speaker 1: of one and then two and eventually three in college
1:57
Speaker 1: studying to be a teacher, so he had a lot
2:00
Speaker 1: of he checked a lot of boxes that will get
2:03
Speaker 1: you out of the war. Right, Well, they probably talked
2:06
Speaker 1: him out of there, like, buddy, your life's hard enough
2:08
Speaker 1: as it is. Yeah, maybe that that would be a
2:10
Speaker 1: hardship deferment. Right. Well, I guess it depends, because teachers
2:15
Speaker 1: were something, as we'll learn later in the show, we're
2:18
Speaker 1: very very much valued. Oh yeah, and if you were
2:23
Speaker 1: in college and if you were the bread winner of
2:25
Speaker 1: a family, so he had a he had a few
2:27
Speaker 1: things going in his favor. I guess if you're looking
2:29
Speaker 1: to not go to war, Yeah, all he had to
2:32
Speaker 1: be was a non US citizen living in the United States,
2:36
Speaker 1: from a country with a treaty with the US, who
2:39
Speaker 1: was also morally opposed to the war, and with a
2:41
Speaker 1: criminal record. That'd be about it. He might have been
2:44
Speaker 1: a little too old, actually too now that I think
2:45
Speaker 1: about it. I mean he could have been if he
2:49
Speaker 1: was in grad was at grad school. I think he
2:51
Speaker 1: was in grad school. Yeah, he might have been, because
2:54
Speaker 1: I think it was back then we're talking now. I'm
2:56
Speaker 1: I think it was eighteen to twenty five, is what
2:58
Speaker 1: it was. Yeah, so yeah, he could have been beyond that. Yeah,
3:01
Speaker 1: then all those boxes were checked. I think he probably was.
3:04
Speaker 1: So in case you guys didn't pick up on this yet,
3:07
Speaker 1: we're talking about the draft. That's what it's called in America.
3:11
Speaker 1: But America's far from the only country that's ever had
3:14
Speaker 1: a draft. It's actually pretty old concept um dating back
3:18
Speaker 1: as far I think I've seen as far back is
3:21
Speaker 1: like the second century BC China. Um. I think the
3:25
Speaker 1: king dynasty or ging. How do you pronounce it with
3:28
Speaker 1: the q. I think I would have looked that up.
3:30
Speaker 1: I think it's how do you spell it jing? Q
3:33
Speaker 1: q i n g q i n g, Well the jing,
3:38
Speaker 1: I think it's jing. I think so anyway, one of
3:43
Speaker 1: the dynasty's towards the second century BC, China had conscription,
3:47
Speaker 1: and it's I think just about every civilization UM with
3:51
Speaker 1: a military said oh, that's a pretty good idea, let's
3:54
Speaker 1: try that. So basically everybody's tried it from time to time,
3:56
Speaker 1: and the US has had drafts multiple times, some a war,
4:00
Speaker 1: but the North and the South had drafts. Um in
4:04
Speaker 1: the I think the War of eighteen twelve, there's even one. Um,
4:08
Speaker 1: the First World War there's a draft. Second World War
4:11
Speaker 1: there's a draft. And then most recently, the draft was
4:13
Speaker 1: in Vietnam from nineteen sixty one to nineteen seventy three.
4:18
Speaker 1: I think, right, yeah, and we'll get to the h
4:21
Speaker 1: Did you read that New York Times article that I sent?
4:25
Speaker 1: Oh boy, that was a good one. Well, we'll get
4:27
Speaker 1: to the ins and outs a little bit at the
4:28
Speaker 1: end with that article. But um, prior to Vietnam, the
4:33
Speaker 1: draft had generally been a sort of roundly accepted kind
4:38
Speaker 1: of uh good thing to most people. So it really
4:42
Speaker 1: wasn't until Vietnam where we found ourselves with a lot
4:46
Speaker 1: of different social forces meeting up with the war that
4:49
Speaker 1: a lot of people didn't believe in. Is where we
4:51
Speaker 1: had a sort of our first big backlash against the
4:56
Speaker 1: idea of a draft. That was where I I mean,
4:59
Speaker 1: that's if the wards just being utterly unpopular almost across
5:03
Speaker 1: the board, is is where I saw was the big
5:06
Speaker 1: reason why, um, the resistance to the draft first began
5:10
Speaker 1: because of Vietnam. Up to that point, wars were generally
5:14
Speaker 1: popular among the majority of Americans. Yeah, and we also
5:18
Speaker 1: need to shout out one Genghis Khan or Chenghis or
5:24
Speaker 1: Chengis Kane because I think we mentioned in that episode
5:29
Speaker 1: that he he used to draft, right kind of. I
5:33
Speaker 1: think that was more like a join me or die
5:36
Speaker 1: kind of thing, which I guess I guess that qualifies
5:38
Speaker 1: as conscription. Well in America's join me or go to jail.
5:41
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's close. Yeah, it's it's close. So yeah,
5:44
Speaker 1: you're right, Um, he definitely had that. And he's actually
5:47
Speaker 1: the tie that binds this episode and the next one too, Uh,
5:52
Speaker 1: the one on the Pony Express because he had a
5:54
Speaker 1: fast male service on horseback. Remember, Yeah, And it's probably
5:59
Speaker 1: not fair to say that he had a draft, because
6:02
Speaker 1: you're right. It was more just like come aboard or
6:04
Speaker 1: i'll have your head, right, But I did want to
6:07
Speaker 1: mention that he There was another movie that we missed.
6:10
Speaker 1: There was a movie not too long ago called Mongol. Oh. Yes,
6:14
Speaker 1: supposedly it was like a good one with a legitimately
6:16
Speaker 1: good actor in there. Yeah, it was a weird They
6:19
Speaker 1: covered it on the Friendly Fire Movie podcast that I
6:22
Speaker 1: listened to, and it's, um, supposedly pretty good. I want
6:25
Speaker 1: to check it out. It was like a weird like
6:27
Speaker 1: a Russian slash Kazakhstani production that did feature Asian actors,
6:33
Speaker 1: only produced by Baratt. I don't know, but it was
6:36
Speaker 1: supposed to be pretty good. I'll check it out. Yeah,
6:39
Speaker 1: I don't want to see it too. Is it on
6:40
Speaker 1: Netflix or Prime? I don't know about that. Oh, by
6:43
Speaker 1: the way, Chuck, I feel so missed. Happy Prime Day?
6:47
Speaker 1: Is it Prime Day? Oh? Of course it's a Prime Day.
6:49
Speaker 1: How could you not? And already bought up my stuff?
6:53
Speaker 1: That was some buzz marketing of all time. So let's
6:57
Speaker 1: talk about this draft. Okay, Sure, and well, I think
7:01
Speaker 1: we'll hold like the pros and cons debate for later. Off,
7:03
Speaker 1: let's just talk about what the draft is in America.
7:06
Speaker 1: How about that, because I think it bears a pretty
7:08
Speaker 1: strong resemblance to drafts in other countries. Yeah. So in
7:12
Speaker 1: the United States, in our military, now this this article
7:15
Speaker 1: is a little outdated, but um, I believe for this year,
7:19
Speaker 1: our budget is about one point three one million active
7:23
Speaker 1: duty personnel and about eight hundred and fifteen thousand reservists. Uh,
7:28
Speaker 1: And this is what our volunteer military force looks like.
7:33
Speaker 1: But in certain times, uh, we have a draft. They
7:37
Speaker 1: also call it conscription. And that's when we feel like
7:41
Speaker 1: and you know, there's debate on whether or not this
7:43
Speaker 1: will ever happen again, but that's when the President and
7:46
Speaker 1: Congress feels like we need to call up people involuntarily
7:51
Speaker 1: because we need more bodies. Yeah, the standing volunteer force
7:56
Speaker 1: that we have right now is considered more than enough
7:59
Speaker 1: for or at least enough for the current peacetime. Um. Yeah,
8:05
Speaker 1: if you take if you take the endless wars that
8:09
Speaker 1: aren't technically wars because Congress never declared war out of
8:12
Speaker 1: the equation that we're in peacetime right, and so these
8:15
Speaker 1: these guys, especially with our advancing and I use guys
8:18
Speaker 1: in the gender neutral sense, um, especially with the advancing
8:22
Speaker 1: technology that's being used in the military. Now, Um, that's
8:25
Speaker 1: actually pretty healthy amount of active duty people. But yes,
8:30
Speaker 1: if there were something that happened, say another World war
8:33
Speaker 1: or something, there's there's a pretty good chance that a
8:36
Speaker 1: draft is going to get started pretty quickly. And um
8:40
Speaker 1: for that to happen, the government would say, okay, selective
8:44
Speaker 1: service system, do your thing, and the selective service system
8:47
Speaker 1: would kick in action. And that this is what I
8:50
Speaker 1: did not know, Chuck. Jimmy Carter is the one who
8:53
Speaker 1: activated the selective service system. Did you know that, oh,
8:57
Speaker 1: when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan Because the s draft was
9:00
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three, uh, and it was just done.
9:04
Speaker 1: And then in nineteen eighty when the Afghani or when
9:07
Speaker 1: the um the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, Carter was really on
9:12
Speaker 1: edge about that, and in ninety one he just basically
9:15
Speaker 1: activated the selective service system. And that's what you were
9:19
Speaker 1: talking about earlier, where where you're eighteen or the first
9:22
Speaker 1: time you're eligible between the ages of eighteen and twenty five,
9:25
Speaker 1: you go to your post office, you go to your
9:28
Speaker 1: government website, you go there's several places you can go,
9:31
Speaker 1: and you basically fell out a card saying I am
9:34
Speaker 1: an eighteen year old American citizen or a resident alien
9:39
Speaker 1: or any number of things. Um, and it's specifically a man,
9:43
Speaker 1: and here's my info. Give me a call if you
9:46
Speaker 1: guys ever run into any trouble. Yeah, and so, uh,
9:51
Speaker 1: the s S S the Selective Service System is who
9:54
Speaker 1: was in charge of basically operating and and plugging in
9:59
Speaker 1: the draft and overseeing it if it ever gets reinstated,
10:03
Speaker 1: right right, So you they have really ultimately this this
10:06
Speaker 1: article does a good job of pointing this out. The
10:08
Speaker 1: Selective Service System is basically just a system of names
10:12
Speaker 1: and addresses kept on file of all um American men
10:19
Speaker 1: eligible to be drafted. So basically between the age of
10:24
Speaker 1: eighteen and twenty five. Yeah, so you mentioned women. Um,
10:29
Speaker 1: about five or six years ago there was the repeal
10:31
Speaker 1: of the ground combat exclusion and they've can since then
10:35
Speaker 1: have been working on basically opening up. Uh. I don't
10:38
Speaker 1: know about all jobs, but I think most or maybe
10:41
Speaker 1: all jobs two women as well as men in the military.
10:45
Speaker 1: But you still despite that, they have not made the
10:49
Speaker 1: change where women have to register with SSS. Yeah, it
10:53
Speaker 1: came like pretty close in committee I think last year,
10:56
Speaker 1: and it didn't make it out of committee, but um,
10:59
Speaker 1: it showed a lot of resolve to that's probably going
11:03
Speaker 1: to change in the next couple of years, I would guess,
11:06
Speaker 1: especially now that women are in combat roles in the military.
11:09
Speaker 1: There's that was traditionally the excuse for why they were
11:12
Speaker 1: not eligible for selective service. Um. But now that they're
11:17
Speaker 1: doing combat roles in the volunteer Army or the volunteer military,
11:22
Speaker 1: then it just makes sense that they would be eligible
11:25
Speaker 1: for the draft too. Yeah. And right now I'm looking
11:27
Speaker 1: at the chart. Uh, this print out here has got
11:31
Speaker 1: one to three, four or five, six, seven, eight categories
11:35
Speaker 1: where you do not need to. Uh. I was about
11:39
Speaker 1: to say, turn yourself in. It's a Fredian slip where
11:43
Speaker 1: you don't have to register. So if you remember the
11:45
Speaker 1: Armed Forces on active duty, obviously you don't need to.
11:48
Speaker 1: If you're a cadet and midshipment at service academies or
11:51
Speaker 1: the Coast Guard Academy, you do not need to. If
11:54
Speaker 1: you're a student and the officer Procurement program at the
11:57
Speaker 1: Citadel North Georgia College and Stay University, Norwich, Virginia, v
12:02
Speaker 1: m I, Texas A and M Virginia Polytech in State University.
12:06
Speaker 1: You don't have to. Uh, let me see here under
12:10
Speaker 1: immigrants lawful nonimmigrants on current non immigrant visas. If you're
12:16
Speaker 1: a seasonal agricultural worker on an H two A visa,
12:20
Speaker 1: you don't have to. If you're incarcerated or hospitalized or institutionalized,
12:25
Speaker 1: you do not need to under handicapped physically or mentally. Uh.
12:31
Speaker 1: You don't need to if you're continually confined to a residence,
12:34
Speaker 1: hospital or institution, but you do have to if you
12:37
Speaker 1: were able to function in public with or without assistance.
12:41
Speaker 1: And then the newest, the latest and greatest transgender people category.
12:48
Speaker 1: If you're an individual who are born female and have
12:50
Speaker 1: changed to male, you do not have to. But if
12:53
Speaker 1: you're born male and change your gender to female, you
12:56
Speaker 1: do have to. Uh. So that's pretty much flies in
13:00
Speaker 1: the face of trans that Yeah. Wow, okay, I'm not
13:05
Speaker 1: surprised by that, but that's that seems a little putsy
13:09
Speaker 1: dems the rules right now. Yeah, So, one of the
13:13
Speaker 1: things that stuck out to me, Chuck, was that, um,
13:16
Speaker 1: if you are a a citizen of another country living
13:21
Speaker 1: in the United States, you have to register. If you're
13:24
Speaker 1: a male UM you have to register for this UM
13:28
Speaker 1: so for selective service. But if your country has a
13:32
Speaker 1: treaty with the US that says, if you guys ever
13:35
Speaker 1: do the draft or whatever, we don't want our people
13:37
Speaker 1: sucked into that. Uh, the U s will honor that.
13:40
Speaker 1: You still have to go UM register. But then when
13:43
Speaker 1: they draft you, you can you get an exemption. But
13:46
Speaker 1: if you do get that exemption, you can never be
13:48
Speaker 1: a citizen of the United States. And if you ever
13:51
Speaker 1: leave the country, you might have trouble getting back in.
13:53
Speaker 1: And it is how this Elective Service puts it, which
13:56
Speaker 1: I would say that means you will definitely have trouble
13:59
Speaker 1: getting back in probably, so you know, uh, and you
14:02
Speaker 1: said eighteen to twenty five is the age where you
14:05
Speaker 1: have to register within thirty days of reaching eligibility. So
14:09
Speaker 1: in the case of your eighteenth birthday, within thirty days
14:12
Speaker 1: of that, or let's say you're in like one of
14:15
Speaker 1: the exclusions, like you're in military school, but you drop out,
14:18
Speaker 1: but you're still eighteen to twenty five, then it's when
14:21
Speaker 1: within thirty days of that dropout date, right, and then yeah,
14:26
Speaker 1: whether it's eighteen thirty days of your eighteenth birthday or
14:29
Speaker 1: thirty days of the first time you become eligible, up
14:31
Speaker 1: to your twenty six birthday. Correct. And then if you
14:35
Speaker 1: just say I don't feel like going today and you
14:38
Speaker 1: keep putting it off for you know, seven seven years um,
14:43
Speaker 1: when you get to be twenty six along the way,
14:46
Speaker 1: you can do it late and they'll say, hey, thanks
14:49
Speaker 1: for coming in. We're going to forgive this. If you
14:51
Speaker 1: wait until after your twenty six and you never get
14:53
Speaker 1: around to doing it, like as it stands on the books,
14:57
Speaker 1: you can be prosecuted for up to five years in
15:00
Speaker 1: prison in a quarter of a million dollar fine. You
15:04
Speaker 1: can also get that same penalty if you encourage someone
15:08
Speaker 1: not to sign up for selective service, But apparently they
15:12
Speaker 1: are not very big on prosecuting that kind of stuff,
15:15
Speaker 1: and instead what they tend to do is they withhold
15:18
Speaker 1: um federal job opportunities, some state job opportunities, federal student
15:23
Speaker 1: aid for college, federal work training program. If you're a
15:28
Speaker 1: defense contract or any kind of contractor you need a
15:30
Speaker 1: security clearance, you can kiss that goodbye. So there's stuff
15:33
Speaker 1: they can do short of finding you two fifty thousand
15:36
Speaker 1: dollars of putting um in jail for five years. Um,
15:39
Speaker 1: but there are penalties for just not ever filling out
15:42
Speaker 1: this little card. Yeah, and I read, uh, and especially
15:46
Speaker 1: in that Times article that even during the Vietnam War,
15:49
Speaker 1: like famous cases aside, like let's say, you know, Muhammad Ali,
15:55
Speaker 1: which makes a lot of news, like, they didn't really
15:59
Speaker 1: want pool that didn't like he didn't have to be
16:02
Speaker 1: all gung ho, but they didn't want people that were
16:05
Speaker 1: just miserable about the whole thing. Well, yeah, I saw
16:09
Speaker 1: that that was one of the when well we'll talk
16:11
Speaker 1: about it later, but like that, you know, they there's
16:13
Speaker 1: like that that wouldn't make a good soldier. It wouldn't
16:15
Speaker 1: serve anyone. So generally they wanted people who are at
16:19
Speaker 1: least like, all right, well I'll do this all the
16:22
Speaker 1: way up to like sign me up, I want to kill. Right.
16:26
Speaker 1: Did we take a break? Yeah, let's I think that's
16:29
Speaker 1: our cue when I say I want to kill. All right,
16:31
Speaker 1: we'll be right back after this, Okay, So let's say that.
17:03
Speaker 1: Um that there. I saw that the head of Selective
17:06
Speaker 1: Service said basically it would take a Martian invasion to
17:10
Speaker 1: activate the draft. Again, I think it's how she put it. So, um,
17:15
Speaker 1: if that happened, if we were invaded by Martians and
17:19
Speaker 1: the draft did start. One of the things that carter
17:22
Speaker 1: Um set up in by activating the Selective Service was
17:27
Speaker 1: to um, it's basically this government bureaucracy that's just waiting
17:33
Speaker 1: to spring into action, and it's kind of like kept
17:35
Speaker 1: on ice. There's a hundred people working at this agency.
17:39
Speaker 1: They got about twenty three million dollars a year in funding,
17:41
Speaker 1: and um, they just keep it at at a ready state,
17:45
Speaker 1: but it's not actually doing what it's designed to do.
17:48
Speaker 1: It's just taking in information, names, addresses, all that stuff,
17:52
Speaker 1: and then um, but if it were ever activated, it
17:56
Speaker 1: would kind of like it would be like one of
17:58
Speaker 1: those little dinosaur sponges. You put water on it and
18:01
Speaker 1: it grows into a big dinosaur sponge. That's basically what
18:04
Speaker 1: would happen with the S S S. Yeah, so they would,
18:07
Speaker 1: like our article points out, they would kick into what
18:09
Speaker 1: you would call draft mode and they would conducted national
18:13
Speaker 1: draft lottery. And you know, back in the Vietnam era,
18:16
Speaker 1: this was a this is a dicey proposition to watch
18:21
Speaker 1: on television what looks like a money lottery. You know,
18:27
Speaker 1: picking numbers, and this is how it how it goes.
18:30
Speaker 1: It's developed by the National Institute of Standards and Technology,
18:34
Speaker 1: and I assume this is how it would still go today. Right, Yeah,
18:38
Speaker 1: this is the current incarnation of the s s S.
18:41
Speaker 1: Al Right, so computer is going to print out all
18:43
Speaker 1: the dates in the current year in random mortar. Put
18:46
Speaker 1: those dates and little little capsules. So interesting how they
18:50
Speaker 1: do this. They really look like more like ping pong
18:53
Speaker 1: balls to me. I know, I'm saying, it looks like
18:56
Speaker 1: you could be a winner, right, except you're not. But
18:59
Speaker 1: who calls it a cap soul? I don't know whoever,
19:03
Speaker 1: Tom Harris, he's old school. Yeah, I guess he's a weirdo.
19:09
Speaker 1: Maybe he's never played ping pong. Uh. Then the computer
19:13
Speaker 1: prints out one through three, six for each day of
19:15
Speaker 1: the year in random mortar, puts those in ping pong balls.
19:20
Speaker 1: The captive souls containing dates are loaded into one drum.
19:24
Speaker 1: The others are loaded into another drum. They spend that thing.
19:28
Speaker 1: They spend the big wheel. I think it's puffed by air.
19:31
Speaker 1: Oh is it? I think so? I was just trying
19:33
Speaker 1: to make a little more like I said, twenty three
19:35
Speaker 1: million in funding a year, right, they can afford the
19:39
Speaker 1: air puff. They're being inspected and observed this whole time
19:43
Speaker 1: to make sure everything's going as planned. And then what
19:45
Speaker 1: happens on TV. Okay, so the official who's running the thing,
19:51
Speaker 1: and again yeah, they have like they have TV there
19:53
Speaker 1: to make sure that this is documented and above the
19:55
Speaker 1: boards and all that stuff. And when the official pulls
19:58
Speaker 1: out the ball or the capsule i'm sorry from one
20:03
Speaker 1: machine and then a capsule from another machine, and they
20:06
Speaker 1: read them out laud. So for example, if the number
20:11
Speaker 1: from the one machine with all the dates of the
20:13
Speaker 1: year in it says April, and the other the other
20:17
Speaker 1: machine has UM three hundred and sixty five or sixty six.
20:21
Speaker 1: If it's a leap year, and that says number forty two,
20:25
Speaker 1: then that means that every male who is eligible for
20:29
Speaker 1: the draft that turns twenty on April twenty two of
20:32
Speaker 1: that year will be in the forties second group to
20:35
Speaker 1: receive their draft notices. Yeah, they start I guess the
20:39
Speaker 1: ideal age that they feel as fair as twenty years old, right,
20:44
Speaker 1: So that's where they start with the draft, because again
20:46
Speaker 1: remember it's between eighteen and twenty five you're eligible. But
20:49
Speaker 1: they yeah, they start with the twenty year olds, and
20:51
Speaker 1: then they do this so over and over again, for
20:54
Speaker 1: all three hundred and sixty five or sixty six days
20:57
Speaker 1: of the year. They pair a date of that year
20:59
Speaker 1: with a number, and that's the people whose twentieth birthday
21:04
Speaker 1: falls on that year are the ones who get that number.
21:08
Speaker 1: They're in that number group. So if January was number one,
21:13
Speaker 1: than anybody born on January would be the first to
21:16
Speaker 1: get the draft notices. And when they're doing this, they're there.
21:20
Speaker 1: They're probably calling up enough people that multiple groups, say
21:25
Speaker 1: groups one through a hundred and fifty are all going
21:29
Speaker 1: to get draft notices right out of the gate. But
21:32
Speaker 1: then as they like, Congress and the President asked for
21:35
Speaker 1: a specific number of troops, and then once they reach
21:38
Speaker 1: that number, the draft notices stopped getting sent out. And
21:41
Speaker 1: then if they say, well, we need more people, they'll
21:44
Speaker 1: start going back to the um. The sequence of call
21:47
Speaker 1: is what it's called uh. And then they go to
21:49
Speaker 1: the next group, in the next group, of the next
21:50
Speaker 1: group until they keep fulfilling these numbers, and then when
21:53
Speaker 1: they run out of twenty year olds, then they go
21:55
Speaker 1: to other age groups. Yeah, they move up from that
21:57
Speaker 1: point to one, and you know, let's just say they
22:00
Speaker 1: keep needing people, it would go twenty one through. Then
22:04
Speaker 1: if they run out of twenty five year olds, A,
22:07
Speaker 1: that means we're in big trouble as a country. The
22:10
Speaker 1: martians are winning, then they hop back to age nineteen,
22:14
Speaker 1: and then if the most dire circumstances comes around, then
22:18
Speaker 1: they hop back finally to eighteen year olds. Yes, so
22:23
Speaker 1: that's that's eighteen to twenty five year olds. Yeah, have
22:28
Speaker 1: just been gone through in the military basically is which
22:31
Speaker 1: has happened If they go get down to the eighteen
22:33
Speaker 1: year olds. Yeah, So then if your name is called, uh,
22:39
Speaker 1: they are you were sent to a or your report
22:42
Speaker 1: I guess to a regional military entrance processing station. And
22:47
Speaker 1: I'm sure they call it something different, like they have
22:50
Speaker 1: some cute short name for it, REMS. And I'll bet
22:55
Speaker 1: this one is a REMPS. I'll bet it's REMPS. You
22:59
Speaker 1: think maybe you know my brother in law's and the Marines,
23:02
Speaker 1: And it's astounding how many uh what are those called
23:06
Speaker 1: not contractions but acronym acronyms for everything. It's unbelievable. They
23:11
Speaker 1: hate saying whole words of the military. Well, it's like
23:14
Speaker 1: another language. And then when he's talking to me, he'll
23:17
Speaker 1: say the acronym and then the real thing, but he just,
23:20
Speaker 1: you know, he can't help but say the acronym. Well sure,
23:23
Speaker 1: you know, do you ever point out, like how much
23:25
Speaker 1: time he just wasted saying both, Yeah, I do that
23:27
Speaker 1: all the time. He loves it, sir. Uh. So then
23:31
Speaker 1: they report to this uh rim epps or rim up, No,
23:36
Speaker 1: it would be rim EPs. Yeah. And this is where
23:39
Speaker 1: you know, you undergo your physical, your your psych evaluation,
23:43
Speaker 1: your mental and moral evaluation, and the doctor says, you know,
23:48
Speaker 1: you can either keep going forward or hey, you know
23:51
Speaker 1: you're wealthy and you have bone spurs, so maybe we'll
23:53
Speaker 1: we'll hold you out. He really wanted to big your
23:59
Speaker 1: response on that. And huh, I don't know. I don't
24:01
Speaker 1: know what I want anymore. Uh. But if you're fit
24:04
Speaker 1: for service, then you have ten days from that point
24:07
Speaker 1: if you want to file an exemption, a claim for
24:10
Speaker 1: exemption or postponement or deferment. Uh. And then from that
24:15
Speaker 1: point forward, if you want a special classification, then you
24:20
Speaker 1: are you go through that whole process. Yes. So one
24:23
Speaker 1: of the other things that the selective service system does
24:27
Speaker 1: is um so it's bringing in, it's bringing in all
24:31
Speaker 1: the people who are eligible for the for the draft
24:33
Speaker 1: and making sure they get evaluated to see if they're
24:35
Speaker 1: fit for service. And then it's also handling and administering
24:39
Speaker 1: the exemption and postponement and deferment process too. It's like
24:43
Speaker 1: two separate streams. It's one stream and then it breaks
24:46
Speaker 1: into two streams. One stream goes into the military, the
24:49
Speaker 1: other one gets sorted out. Right. Yes, So if you
24:53
Speaker 1: are um, if you're say like a high school student
24:56
Speaker 1: or something like that, UM, and you file that that
24:59
Speaker 1: ten days, a uh claim for exemption or whatever. You'll
25:04
Speaker 1: just send in a piece of paper, maybe something from
25:07
Speaker 1: your high school that says, uh, now, Josh is still
25:10
Speaker 1: in high school, so he's he shouldn't be going into
25:13
Speaker 1: the draft, and they will say, here's your exemption, kid,
25:15
Speaker 1: actually twenty he's in high school. Don't ask, That would
25:18
Speaker 1: be right, don't ask, don't tell um. And that would
25:22
Speaker 1: be a postponement, I think, is what that would be,
25:25
Speaker 1: because they're saying, great, finished high school, we'll see you
25:28
Speaker 1: right after. Yeah. I mean, if you're ready right then
25:31
Speaker 1: and you're fit for service, you're classified as one A.
25:34
Speaker 1: Al right, something you heard a lot about in the
25:36
Speaker 1: Vietnam era. Like, if you get picked and you were
25:38
Speaker 1: one A, you're you're getting shipped out pretty quickly, right,
25:41
Speaker 1: exactly like you would go home. They would send you
25:43
Speaker 1: your letter and and probably in the letter they would
25:46
Speaker 1: tell you where to report. Yeah, so high schools covered.
25:49
Speaker 1: If you're a college student, you can postpone for the
25:52
Speaker 1: remainder of that year, or if you're a freshman, that's you.
25:55
Speaker 1: If you're senior, if you're a freshman, sophomore, junior, you
25:58
Speaker 1: can postpone until the end of the semester. Yep, there's
26:02
Speaker 1: an exemption for religious ministers and people studying to become
26:07
Speaker 1: ministers and recognized religions. I thought they needed the father's Yeah,
26:14
Speaker 1: I think that's uh, Like I don't. I think you
26:17
Speaker 1: you asked for a DEFERMATI if they find that you're
26:19
Speaker 1: one A, even if you're any of these, I think
26:23
Speaker 1: they will just take you regardless. But if you say, actually,
26:26
Speaker 1: i'm a religious minister, I don't feel comfortable about this,
26:29
Speaker 1: you can get a deferment like that. But if your
26:31
Speaker 1: father mukahey and you're like, I'm a religious minister. Kill
26:35
Speaker 1: kill kill, they'll say come on in or counsel the
26:39
Speaker 1: men who kill kill kill sure father o'kayhy he was
26:43
Speaker 1: a good uh he was a good um character, wasn't he.
26:46
Speaker 1: He's good dude. One of my favorites on mash Actually weirdly, yeah, yeah,
26:51
Speaker 1: because he was like just such a side character. But yeah,
26:54
Speaker 1: I liked him now that I think about it out loud. Yeah,
26:57
Speaker 1: I watched Barney Miller last night for the first time
26:59
Speaker 1: for ever. If you if you want to see a
27:04
Speaker 1: TV show, like a bona fide TV show where there's
27:07
Speaker 1: a script and actors and they've all rehearsed and there's
27:11
Speaker 1: like a plot, and there's jokes and all that stuff
27:13
Speaker 1: and a laugh track, a laugh track, to watch Barney
27:16
Speaker 1: Miller and you will be it's wonderful, which is to
27:19
Speaker 1: say it was like every other show on TV at
27:21
Speaker 1: the time at the time. Try to find one of
27:24
Speaker 1: those now you can't do it. Well, I mean they're on,
27:27
Speaker 1: but you probably just don't watch sitcoms anymore. I guess
27:31
Speaker 1: they are, and aren't they I'm told? Yeah, Well, anyway,
27:34
Speaker 1: Barney Miller holds up and maybe it's even better than ever. Yeah,
27:37
Speaker 1: that was a great show. Who with the who are
27:40
Speaker 1: the side guys? There's fish able to go to his
27:42
Speaker 1: fish John. Whoa Joe? Whoa Joe? John? You don't know
27:48
Speaker 1: where I came up with that. Uh you're thinking a
27:50
Speaker 1: little John? Yeah? And then who was uh, who's the
27:53
Speaker 1: other guy? There was Chano? Uh, there was um oh,
27:59
Speaker 1: I can't remember the Asian guy's name. They they John right? No, no,
28:04
Speaker 1: wo Joe was the He was like the young kind
28:07
Speaker 1: of like bachelor dude with the terrible haircute Oh yeah,
28:10
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, um he oh he was he was probably
28:14
Speaker 1: like what Yakowski or something. Yeah, that's exactly what his
28:18
Speaker 1: name was, like okay, um. And then there was the
28:21
Speaker 1: Asian man. I can't remember what his name was, but
28:24
Speaker 1: they would he was such a great character. They would
28:26
Speaker 1: reference him when he wasn't even in the episode. They
28:30
Speaker 1: talk about him. That's a great that's a good character.
28:33
Speaker 1: And then Wrong Glass. I can't remember what what the
28:36
Speaker 1: name of the detective Ron Glass played was, but great
28:40
Speaker 1: television show still and maybe the best television theme song
28:43
Speaker 1: of all time too. Oh yeah, I love that one.
28:46
Speaker 1: If I'm not mistaken. Didn't have a slap bass in it?
28:49
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, do you want to do it? Ron Harris
28:52
Speaker 1: run Glass played Ron Harris and uh Yamana nick Yamana
28:59
Speaker 1: was the character's name, Okay, and who played Nickiamanna? Jack
29:03
Speaker 1: Sue cool Man? Great, how Lindon Man? What a classic?
29:09
Speaker 1: Where where are you watching that? Where? Yeah? You mean
29:14
Speaker 1: what station? There's something called Antenna TV. It's all awesome reruns.
29:18
Speaker 1: There's something else called Cozy c o z I t V.
29:22
Speaker 1: They basically do the same thing, and like you'll find
29:25
Speaker 1: them in the non HD channels a little further down
29:28
Speaker 1: the dial. But they're good. And now they each owe
29:31
Speaker 1: me a twenty target gift card. That's a hot tip.
29:35
Speaker 1: Uh So back to the draft. Oh yeah, um, we
29:39
Speaker 1: covered that. We got off track with father and okay,
29:42
Speaker 1: So if you are have dependence, um, like I was saying, like, uh,
29:48
Speaker 1: my father with a family of two or three. Um,
29:52
Speaker 1: if you are a government official, like if you're a judge,
29:55
Speaker 1: which would be unusual that young, but any kind of
29:57
Speaker 1: elected official go Ovener state legislator. Yeah, I'm sure there's
30:04
Speaker 1: a lot of up at that rankles a lot of people,
30:07
Speaker 1: because those are the very people who are sending the
30:10
Speaker 1: military into war. You know. Yeah, I guess the idea
30:13
Speaker 1: of a twenty four year old a mayor who gets
30:17
Speaker 1: a deferment wouldn't go over super well in times of war.
30:21
Speaker 1: And then finally, and this is we'll get into this
30:23
Speaker 1: pretty in depth. But conscientious objectors uh, which is a
30:29
Speaker 1: whole ball of wax right there, But that is when
30:31
Speaker 1: you hold religious or moral beliefs. Uh. Then you can well,
30:36
Speaker 1: I guess we should go ahead and get into it. Huh. Well,
30:38
Speaker 1: do you want to take a break and then get
30:39
Speaker 1: into it or you want to get into it and
30:40
Speaker 1: then take a break. It's your choice, buddy. Let's get
30:44
Speaker 1: into it, then take a break, okay, Uh yeah, okay.
30:49
Speaker 1: So do you remember a pacifism episode That was a
30:53
Speaker 1: great one, And I know for a fact that we
30:55
Speaker 1: talked about conscientious objectors in that as well. But if
30:58
Speaker 1: you if you are drafted, and here's the thing again,
31:01
Speaker 1: you still have to register for selective service. If they
31:04
Speaker 1: ever initiate the draft, you will still get a draft
31:07
Speaker 1: notice and then you'll report to the regional center the
31:11
Speaker 1: remaps right um or remaps, and you you will say
31:17
Speaker 1: to them, I am morally opposed to war. And they'll
31:20
Speaker 1: say this war, which is a trick question, and you
31:24
Speaker 1: say no, all war, and they'll go, okay, well that's
31:27
Speaker 1: a bird of a different feather. Let's get this thing started.
31:29
Speaker 1: So you have ten days to file this this UM
31:32
Speaker 1: claim for exemption and then that's going to kick off
31:35
Speaker 1: this UM basically an interview process by the local board.
31:40
Speaker 1: And these local boards are another thing that gets activated
31:43
Speaker 1: UM by the the SSS being UM activated itself. There's
31:49
Speaker 1: five civilians who sit on a local board and each
31:51
Speaker 1: local board serves x number of like kids in an
31:55
Speaker 1: area for volunteers, it should be pointed out, and they're
32:00
Speaker 1: or to hear special cases to decide whether or not
32:03
Speaker 1: you get that exemption for things like a hardship UM,
32:06
Speaker 1: like if you're a father, uh soul breadwinner kind of thing,
32:10
Speaker 1: or if you're a conscientious objector and with a conscientious
32:13
Speaker 1: objector specifically, they're gonna ask you, um, well, which kind
32:17
Speaker 1: are you Are you opposed to, like carrying a gun
32:20
Speaker 1: and like shooting at people on the front lines? Are
32:22
Speaker 1: you opposed to combat? Or are you opposed to like
32:26
Speaker 1: being in the military at all? And there's actually two
32:28
Speaker 1: classifications for that. Yeah, And at this point they have
32:31
Speaker 1: called you down like certain things like high school or
32:34
Speaker 1: maybe if you have a family of six, like they
32:36
Speaker 1: can just go ahead and rubber stamp you. But you're
32:39
Speaker 1: gonna get called down there in person, and you'll want
32:41
Speaker 1: to as as an objector. And the two classifications that
32:44
Speaker 1: you mentioned is one a oh with if you're morally
32:49
Speaker 1: opposed to serving in combat or one oh one dash oh.
32:54
Speaker 1: And this is if you they're saying, I don't want
32:57
Speaker 1: to be in the military. I don't want to be
32:59
Speaker 1: a chef. I don't want to be a cook. I
33:01
Speaker 1: don't want to be a priest or deliver mail or
33:04
Speaker 1: right for the newspaper. I don't want to write for
33:07
Speaker 1: the Stars and Stripes. You know what it was called?
33:09
Speaker 1: Is that still around? Probably? I know Voice of America
33:13
Speaker 1: is Is that the current main rag? It may be different. Well,
33:17
Speaker 1: they're like they're everywhere. They're like big time media outlet
33:21
Speaker 1: for the military. Good Branch has their own RAG too. Well,
33:24
Speaker 1: the Stars and Stripes. That's what Matthew Modine was right
33:27
Speaker 1: for and um yeah that's great. Uh photographer though right, No,
33:33
Speaker 1: he walked around with the photographer used the reporter, gotcha
33:36
Speaker 1: all right? So in the draft, if you if you
33:40
Speaker 1: were classified as one AO, which is morally opposed to
33:44
Speaker 1: combat only, then they will probably try to still assign
33:49
Speaker 1: you to to some sort of service. Oh yeah, like
33:51
Speaker 1: we were talking about, like in the mail room or whatever.
33:54
Speaker 1: But there's plenty of stuff you can do plenty being
33:56
Speaker 1: on the front line in the military. It's plenty, plenty, plenty, huge,
33:59
Speaker 1: huge machine that has a lot of different parts to it.
34:02
Speaker 1: So yeah, they will definitely find a spot for you.
34:04
Speaker 1: If you're morally opposed to serving the military. If you're saying,
34:07
Speaker 1: like I'm totally opposed to war, I don't agree with
34:09
Speaker 1: what you're doing. I don't agree with any any war whatsoever,
34:13
Speaker 1: So I don't want to help out in any way,
34:14
Speaker 1: shape or form. Let's say, Okay, you still have to serve.
34:17
Speaker 1: You're still going to have a tour of duty, just
34:20
Speaker 1: like anybody who is one A and goes into the
34:23
Speaker 1: military to serve in the draft, you're gonna have a
34:26
Speaker 1: tour of duty too, But instead they will assign you
34:28
Speaker 1: to UM basically what's called the Alternative service program where
34:33
Speaker 1: you contribute to the country for like X number of years,
34:37
Speaker 1: like as A in healthcare or UM in conservation. Is
34:41
Speaker 1: another big one too, where they basically just put you
34:44
Speaker 1: to work to to keep the country make it better. Yeah,
34:47
Speaker 1: and you're like you said before, it has to be
34:50
Speaker 1: opposed to all war, and it can't be because of
34:53
Speaker 1: political beliefs, So it has to be based on moral
34:56
Speaker 1: or ethical or religious beliefs. You can't just say, hey, man,
35:00
Speaker 1: if that was a nine eleven, i'd be down, but
35:03
Speaker 1: I don't like this jerk who's in office, and I
35:07
Speaker 1: don't agree with their politics, so I'm not into this war.
35:10
Speaker 1: They'll say, sorry, that doesn't really count, which I mean,
35:13
Speaker 1: I yeah, I guess that it makes sense. Yeah, well,
35:17
Speaker 1: I mean at any rate, you have to appear explain
35:20
Speaker 1: all this stuff. You might want to bring in some friends.
35:23
Speaker 1: You might want them to ask or to maybe write
35:26
Speaker 1: something for you ahead of time. You will probably want
35:28
Speaker 1: to demonstrate through historical evidence that you have always felt
35:32
Speaker 1: this way, like look, here's me at a peace rally
35:35
Speaker 1: nine years ago, and eight years ago and seven years ago,
35:38
Speaker 1: and you want to really build up your case that, like,
35:41
Speaker 1: this is something I've lived with my whole life, right
35:44
Speaker 1: if you or if you like, I'm a Quaker and
35:46
Speaker 1: see here's my here're my quicker friends telling you that
35:49
Speaker 1: I'm a Quaker. And here here's my funny hat, belt buckles, shoes.
35:53
Speaker 1: Did you just start eating handfuls of dry oaks during
35:56
Speaker 1: the interview to prove to prove you're a Quaker, you
35:59
Speaker 1: might get a different classification. Uh. So you're doing all
36:03
Speaker 1: this stuff to build your case. Um. If if they
36:06
Speaker 1: deny you, you can appeal the decision. Um. So it's
36:10
Speaker 1: not like the final word. But I don't know how
36:13
Speaker 1: many peals you get. My guess would be one. Yeah,
36:16
Speaker 1: and I'm not even sure if you necessarily get one.
36:18
Speaker 1: But um, ideally, this board of citizens are going to
36:22
Speaker 1: say this guy actually is morally opposed to war and
36:25
Speaker 1: then not say but I'm not and I don't think
36:29
Speaker 1: he should be, so he's gonna go anyway. So they're
36:31
Speaker 1: supposed to just say, is this person morally opposed to war?
36:34
Speaker 1: Do you buy that? Yes? Okay, then they should get
36:36
Speaker 1: this deferment. Um. But this is this is set up
36:40
Speaker 1: so that that if you there's a they say, well,
36:43
Speaker 1: there's a place for you to serve your country, even
36:46
Speaker 1: if you don't, um don't believe in in war. Even
36:50
Speaker 1: helping a war effort got you? You want to take
36:53
Speaker 1: that break, now, let's do it, okay, and things all right, Chuck,
37:27
Speaker 1: So I think there's a this is a really really
37:31
Speaker 1: controversial topic, the idea of a draft, And I think
37:34
Speaker 1: it would be far more controversial if it looked like
37:38
Speaker 1: it might be coming down the pike at any given point.
37:41
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of reasons that people point to
37:44
Speaker 1: that they say, this is what we have now is
37:47
Speaker 1: totally awesome. Um. For one, what we have now again
37:52
Speaker 1: and we have had since nineteen is an all volunteer force,
37:56
Speaker 1: which means that every single person who is in the
37:59
Speaker 1: middle of terry in any branch of the military in
38:01
Speaker 1: the United States is there on their own volition. No
38:05
Speaker 1: one's forcing them to. Even if a judge said either
38:08
Speaker 1: join the army or go to jail, they still had
38:10
Speaker 1: a choice, it says. So that makes it a what's
38:14
Speaker 1: called a professional volunteer army where they get paid. Um,
38:18
Speaker 1: they they submit themselves to serious training, and they are
38:23
Speaker 1: about as good a soldier as you will expect to
38:27
Speaker 1: find in the world. That's the current state of our military.
38:31
Speaker 1: And they say, this is plenty. We're doing fine with this,
38:34
Speaker 1: We don't need any kind of draft, So why would
38:36
Speaker 1: you even bring that up. And there's a lot of
38:39
Speaker 1: people who say, well, well, there's some real pros to
38:41
Speaker 1: to having a conscription. Yeah, I mean the article you sent,
38:46
Speaker 1: some of the pros were as follows promoting national unity,
38:50
Speaker 1: and all of these are subject to opinion, I think, Well, yeah,
38:55
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a debate, it's a controversial topic. UM
39:00
Speaker 1: maintains an act of military force. Obviously, that's kind of inarguable. Uh,
39:05
Speaker 1: it ensures high levels of participation in government. This, you know,
39:09
Speaker 1: makes a little bit of sense. You'll probably pay a
39:11
Speaker 1: lot more attention to what's going on if faced with
39:15
Speaker 1: the threat or I don't know threats right word, but
39:18
Speaker 1: if faced with the prospects of a draft, that to
39:21
Speaker 1: me is probably the best the best argument for a draft.
39:26
Speaker 1: It's saying like, if you, if you are possibly going
39:30
Speaker 1: to get draft and go to war, just by being
39:32
Speaker 1: born as a citizen of this country, you're expected to
39:36
Speaker 1: be part of the military at some point in your life.
39:40
Speaker 1: You're gonna pay a lot more attention to what the
39:42
Speaker 1: the US is doing around the world with its military,
39:46
Speaker 1: and you're probably going to stand up and make your
39:49
Speaker 1: voice heard if you if you disagree with what the
39:53
Speaker 1: US is doing with the military. I mean, that definitely
39:56
Speaker 1: makes sense in some ways, but at the same time,
39:58
Speaker 1: so so that are coument. What you just said is
40:01
Speaker 1: it's a it's a it's for proponents of conscription of
40:06
Speaker 1: a draft, um. But that you can also make the
40:09
Speaker 1: opposite case too, that people have said, well, when we
40:12
Speaker 1: had a draft before, we prosecuted at least one like
40:16
Speaker 1: by definition unjust for the Vietnam War, and it was
40:20
Speaker 1: it was prosecuted by um, Johnson and Nixon, and they
40:23
Speaker 1: just kept sending wave after wave of of American soldiers
40:28
Speaker 1: into harm's way. And some historians and some political scientists
40:33
Speaker 1: say they might not have done that had they not
40:37
Speaker 1: known that there was a virtually unlimited pool of soldiers
40:40
Speaker 1: that they could just send into Southeast Asia over and
40:43
Speaker 1: over again, um, and that we wouldn't be prosecuting wars
40:46
Speaker 1: that way between. Okay, I'm sorry. So the the twenty
40:50
Speaker 1: seven years before nineventy three, we were engaged in nineteen
40:56
Speaker 1: overseas military operations. Between nineteen seventy three and two thousand,
41:00
Speaker 1: well we had a hundred and forty four And so
41:03
Speaker 1: a lot of people say, no, man, if you have
41:05
Speaker 1: a professional army, they're divorced from society. They're basically like here,
41:10
Speaker 1: military like, go go handle this. We like, we don't
41:13
Speaker 1: like these people anymore we want that oil, go do this,
41:16
Speaker 1: Like what do we pay you for? Go do it?
41:18
Speaker 1: And the people who are doing this have never been
41:21
Speaker 1: in the military, haven't been exposed to military life, and
41:24
Speaker 1: are hence maybe a little more instution about sending the
41:28
Speaker 1: military in to other countries using a military option. So
41:33
Speaker 1: that is like two of the best reasons for or
41:37
Speaker 1: against conscription, but they totally contradict each other. And it's
41:42
Speaker 1: just fascinating to me that that you can have something
41:45
Speaker 1: that's just that ambivalent or ambiguous. I mean, right, yeah,
41:53
Speaker 1: I know what you mean. Um, some of the cons
41:56
Speaker 1: I mean, the cons are all pretty obvious. It violates
41:59
Speaker 1: someone's free will. Uh, it may keep you from going
42:02
Speaker 1: to college, put lives at risk for young people. This
42:07
Speaker 1: one compromises the quality of military service. That's one that
42:11
Speaker 1: that's a big con to me is you're getting sometimes
42:15
Speaker 1: people in there that aren't cut out for that and
42:18
Speaker 1: couldn't couldn't find a way, and didn't have the wealthy
42:21
Speaker 1: father or the shady doctor to get you out of it. Um.
42:26
Speaker 1: I mean that is a big one, especially if you
42:28
Speaker 1: if you're one of those people who points to the
42:30
Speaker 1: American military and say is we've never had a better.
42:34
Speaker 1: This is the best version of the U. S Military
42:36
Speaker 1: in the history of the country. But let's dilute it
42:39
Speaker 1: with millions of of conscripts who don't want to be there, um,
42:44
Speaker 1: who we have to spend an inordinate amount of time
42:46
Speaker 1: training and sending out to the front lines basically his bodies.
42:50
Speaker 1: That's that's a terrible idea. It dilutes the professionalism of
42:53
Speaker 1: the military. Yeah, for sure, that's another. That's another one
42:57
Speaker 1: that's got it's got to all of these have two
43:00
Speaker 1: pretty clear sides to every point, you know. And then
43:03
Speaker 1: I think the other the other thing I've seen too
43:06
Speaker 1: is so this is I mean, this is not like
43:07
Speaker 1: a huge hot debate right now in military and political
43:11
Speaker 1: science quarters, but it's it is currently debated. It's just
43:16
Speaker 1: the people who are against conscription are not worried about
43:21
Speaker 1: this at all. It's just not gonna happen anytime soon, right,
43:24
Speaker 1: There's just no reason for it to happen. But um,
43:27
Speaker 1: the people who are in favor of it are being
43:30
Speaker 1: accused of this being a back door way of changing
43:34
Speaker 1: America's interventionist um military usage. That they're they're basically saying, well,
43:39
Speaker 1: let's get a draft going, and then people will wake
43:42
Speaker 1: up and say, oh, we shouldn't be using the military
43:44
Speaker 1: like this um and that that's their real um aim,
43:49
Speaker 1: which you know, I guess trying to change strategy by
43:53
Speaker 1: introducing conscripts, it's a it's a way to go. I suppose. Yeah,
43:58
Speaker 1: it is interesting to just be like to learn about
44:01
Speaker 1: something that you have no ideas being discussed or talked about,
44:04
Speaker 1: and then when you start looking in it's like, oh
44:05
Speaker 1: there's even stuff below the surface, like they're talking about
44:08
Speaker 1: grand military strategy really, you know, not just whether people
44:12
Speaker 1: should serve their country or not, which is another pro
44:16
Speaker 1: that it creates a a unified sentiment among Americans or
44:23
Speaker 1: any country. There's plenty of countries out there who do this.
44:25
Speaker 1: In North North Korea, you're conscripted for ten years as
44:29
Speaker 1: a man and I think six years as a woman.
44:32
Speaker 1: Um that there's this sense of like I was in
44:36
Speaker 1: the military too, where did you serve I served here? Oh?
44:38
Speaker 1: Really did you know this guy? And you know, like
44:40
Speaker 1: there's that that common ground, And there's also that mixing
44:44
Speaker 1: of all different Americans to where you're meeting with them
44:47
Speaker 1: and living with them one on one and you're forming
44:50
Speaker 1: a bond, a kinship just through being in the military,
44:53
Speaker 1: that if everyone has to go through that, it will
44:56
Speaker 1: create like this kind of sense of national unity that
44:59
Speaker 1: America is lacking right now. That was another pro that
45:01
Speaker 1: I saw very interesting. I'm all out of pros and cons,
45:05
Speaker 1: Chuck uh, Well, I read this New York Times article
45:07
Speaker 1: that was really interesting talking about Vietnam and then the
45:10
Speaker 1: Cold War and how that complicated things and um, since
45:15
Speaker 1: World War Two, I think, uh, the Selective Service was
45:19
Speaker 1: operated by General Lewis B. Hershey, and like I said earlier,
45:23
Speaker 1: I didn't face a lot of criticism until Vietnam. And
45:26
Speaker 1: that's when things got really hinky because a a lot
45:28
Speaker 1: of people were against the war, and b it became
45:31
Speaker 1: pretty clear, even though the Department of Events didn't keep
45:34
Speaker 1: records on socio economic status beyond like are you white
45:39
Speaker 1: or are you African American, it was pretty clear that
45:42
Speaker 1: if you were white and middle class and up, you
45:45
Speaker 1: had a much more uh much higher chances of getting
45:49
Speaker 1: a deferment. So the Cold War complicated things further because
45:54
Speaker 1: it wasn't a war war and it became really clear
45:57
Speaker 1: that we needed to like it was, it was all
45:59
Speaker 1: about the space race. Or the military race with the Soviets.
46:05
Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, Hershey said, he didn't say
46:08
Speaker 1: this out loud, but he said, you know what, I'm
46:10
Speaker 1: gonna use this, as they called it, We could be
46:15
Speaker 1: the storekeeper of America's manpower supply. And basically it's up
46:20
Speaker 1: to us how to how to tell these young men
46:24
Speaker 1: what lives they're going to live. So not only like,
46:28
Speaker 1: let's forget the military for a second, they needed a
46:30
Speaker 1: big supply of men and stem fields to develop weapons
46:35
Speaker 1: and science and everything to keep up with the Soviets.
46:38
Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, the deferments, they started channeling
46:41
Speaker 1: these middle class, college aged or college educated white men
46:47
Speaker 1: into what they called manpower, channeling into all of these
46:51
Speaker 1: other areas of study and research and you know, design
46:55
Speaker 1: and manufacturing. So it was just a really interesting time.
46:59
Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, like during World War Two,
47:02
Speaker 1: if you are a factory worker or an agricultural worker,
47:05
Speaker 1: you might get a deferment. Chances were pretty good that
47:08
Speaker 1: you might because you were really needed. After that, if
47:11
Speaker 1: you had a farmer, you worked in a factory, you
47:12
Speaker 1: were out of luck because you weren't like, uh, into
47:16
Speaker 1: physics or you know other stem fields or in the
47:20
Speaker 1: medical field. So by nine five, all these middle class
47:25
Speaker 1: white men kind of expected deferments, which is really interesting.
47:30
Speaker 1: And then you had Robert McNamara UH secretary Secretary Defense.
47:36
Speaker 1: He started using what they called UH. He wanted to
47:39
Speaker 1: get basically black men out of what he called squalid
47:43
Speaker 1: ghettos of their own external environment and into the internal
47:49
Speaker 1: and more destructive ghetto of personal disillusionment and despair. So
47:54
Speaker 1: basically his idea was, we have all these black men
47:57
Speaker 1: in this country that would do much better in life
48:00
Speaker 1: if we put them in the military. So they hunt.
48:03
Speaker 1: So this is just this one guy deciding this. Well,
48:06
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure it went through channels, but Robert
48:09
Speaker 1: McNamara's Secretary of Defense was very powerful. Oh I thought
48:13
Speaker 1: this was Hershey, this is Mcnamerican at this point. Yeah,
48:16
Speaker 1: this is McNamara who created what was called the New
48:18
Speaker 1: Standards model. So these men, they were called New Standards men,
48:22
Speaker 1: who were otherwise ineligible for for military service, all of
48:26
Speaker 1: a sudden were eligible. So he started basically three d
48:32
Speaker 1: and fifty four thousand of these men between sixty six
48:35
Speaker 1: and seventy seven who were not previously eligible under the
48:38
Speaker 1: New Standards program were and of these men were black,
48:43
Speaker 1: and this is when the military was about nine percent
48:45
Speaker 1: African American. So he basically was saying, you know, a
48:48
Speaker 1: stint in the military as a new standard soldier is
48:51
Speaker 1: much better, will make you a better husband, better father,
48:54
Speaker 1: a better breadwinner, ultimately in a better citizen. And you're
48:58
Speaker 1: basically an infantryman in Vietnam all of a sudden when
49:01
Speaker 1: you previously would not have even been in the war. Huh.
49:04
Speaker 1: So this ran for five years, and like I said,
49:08
Speaker 1: three d fifty four thousand men ended up on the
49:12
Speaker 1: front lines of Vietnam and had a decent chance of dying. Yeah,
49:17
Speaker 1: I saw that. I think like of the troops in
49:20
Speaker 1: Vietnam were draftees, but draftees made up like thirty point
49:24
Speaker 1: four percent of the casualties in Vietnam. Um, which goes
49:29
Speaker 1: to kind of point out like if you have somebody
49:32
Speaker 1: there who's not like, yes, I want to be a soldier,
49:34
Speaker 1: teach me how to be a soldier. But they're there
49:36
Speaker 1: against their will. There's a really good likelihood that after
49:39
Speaker 1: just six months of training they're going to go out
49:41
Speaker 1: there and get killed, you know, which is a big
49:44
Speaker 1: mark against conscription. And in just about anybody's mind. Yeah,
49:49
Speaker 1: that's crazy man. McNamara, he was, yeah, did you ever
49:54
Speaker 1: see Fog of War? When he's like, do you buy
49:57
Speaker 1: that it dawned on him him what he had done
50:02
Speaker 1: or what he was really responsible for, like they're on
50:04
Speaker 1: camera or was he just putting on a show. I
50:07
Speaker 1: don't know, you know what I'm talking about where he
50:09
Speaker 1: kind of like breaks down towards the end and it
50:11
Speaker 1: seems like Errol It is an Errol Morris flick, right, Yeah,
50:14
Speaker 1: very compelling, Like it sort of lulls you in to
50:20
Speaker 1: some great insider information. It's definitely worth watching. It's just
50:24
Speaker 1: basically like an interview with Robert McNamara, and in it,
50:28
Speaker 1: Errol Morris like basically leads him to the conclusion that
50:32
Speaker 1: he really was responsible for a lot of unnecessary death
50:36
Speaker 1: because of the Vietnam War and how he prosecuted it
50:40
Speaker 1: as Defense Secretary. Yeah. And I kind of mangled that,
50:43
Speaker 1: uh op ed in the Times. But it's called and
50:47
Speaker 1: you should read this out there in podcast land. It's
50:49
Speaker 1: called How the Draft Reshaped America by Amy J. Ruttenberg
50:53
Speaker 1: from October of last year. Uh and she's she does
50:57
Speaker 1: a much better job than I just did. I'll check
50:59
Speaker 1: it out to I'm so ashamed that I didn't read
51:01
Speaker 1: something in prep. Don't be Are you got anything else?
51:07
Speaker 1: I got nothing else? All right? Well, everybody, that was
51:10
Speaker 1: the draft, and if you want to know more about it,
51:12
Speaker 1: go type in draft in the search bar at how
51:15
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. And since I said that, it's
51:17
Speaker 1: time for a listener mail. Yeah. And you know, we
51:20
Speaker 1: didn't get into stuff like the fact that Elvis was
51:24
Speaker 1: drafted and weird things like that happened back then. Well yeah,
51:29
Speaker 1: and I mean that was a demonstration for how you know,
51:32
Speaker 1: everybody is supposedly eligible for the draft, even though that's
51:35
Speaker 1: not really how it's always worked out. And I think
51:37
Speaker 1: we talked about that in Pacifism too. All Right, I'm
51:41
Speaker 1: gonna call this cute kid email from Scotland. Nice. Uh
51:46
Speaker 1: And this is from Noah in Scotland and knows writing
51:49
Speaker 1: in again. Remember did he write in before? Oh? Yeah, no,
51:53
Speaker 1: it was written in plenty Okay, yeah, hey Noah. Well
51:56
Speaker 1: Noah and his mom added a little uh PostScript, Dear
52:00
Speaker 1: Josh and Chuck, I'm using my mama's email address again
52:03
Speaker 1: as she's helping me type, and she's helping me type
52:06
Speaker 1: butt and getting better, and my next email will be
52:08
Speaker 1: typed just by me. I really liked your Skyscraper's episode
52:12
Speaker 1: and wanted to tell you a cool fact. The Shanghai
52:14
Speaker 1: Tower in China is one levels high. It's my favorite
52:19
Speaker 1: tower because I think it's engineering is the best and uh,
52:23
Speaker 1: it's the uh and it's the thing second highest one.
52:28
Speaker 1: And she said, she just typed exactly as he said. Uh.
52:32
Speaker 1: It's damper is my favorite part. It's a new type
52:35
Speaker 1: called a tuned mass damper. This stops it from going
52:38
Speaker 1: too far to one side by using a hundred and
52:40
Speaker 1: twenty five super strong magnets. The thing my mama likes
52:43
Speaker 1: is that the big empty space they need for the
52:45
Speaker 1: damper means the sounds is good and there's a music
52:49
Speaker 1: hall in there. I got mamma to put on a
52:52
Speaker 1: diagram of how it works from a magazine called Popular Mechanics.
52:56
Speaker 1: I'm six now, and on my summer holidays, when my
53:00
Speaker 1: cousins come around and are being too noisy, I go
53:02
Speaker 1: to my room and listen to your next episode or
53:04
Speaker 1: my new rawl Doll audio books. You're still funny, but
53:09
Speaker 1: sometimes I don't know what you're talking about. Love from
53:13
Speaker 1: Noah in Scotland. Uh, and then from mom Rachel She said,
53:17
Speaker 1: no his mom here, I hope this makes sense, tried
53:19
Speaker 1: to type it verbatim. When you're six year olds knowledge
53:22
Speaker 1: of physics vastly outreaches your own, you know it's time
53:24
Speaker 1: to call him the big guns. Uh. Have we read
53:28
Speaker 1: one from Noah before? Yes? I can't remember what he
53:30
Speaker 1: wrote in about but yeah he wrote in back when
53:33
Speaker 1: he was five, maybe four, but definitely five. Yeah, he's
53:37
Speaker 1: written in and um, mom typed verbatim then too, and
53:40
Speaker 1: then kind of added a little pengent saying like unfortunately
53:44
Speaker 1: the same thing, like I hope this made sense? All right, Well, Noah,
53:46
Speaker 1: we will read one of your emails a year until
53:51
Speaker 1: we stop or until you stop listening. Noah's the new Sarah,
53:55
Speaker 1: the amazing eleven year old fan that's tried to is
53:59
Speaker 1: Geez twenty one now. Yes, you should be coming back
54:02
Speaker 1: into the fold again soon. Yeah. We lose them in
54:05
Speaker 1: high school and then get them back as it's growing up.
54:07
Speaker 1: That's the idea. Yeah. Well, anyway, Noah and your mom
54:11
Speaker 1: thank you very much writing in and if you want
54:13
Speaker 1: to get in touch with me or Chucker Jerry You
54:15
Speaker 1: can go to stuff you Should Know dot com and
54:17
Speaker 1: check out all of our social media links and also
54:21
Speaker 1: uh you can send us an email directly to stuff
54:23
Speaker 1: podcast how Stuff Works dot com for more on this
54:32
Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how Stuff Works
54:34
Speaker 1: up