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Trump Heals Grieving Nation · Pod Save America

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  Speaker 1: Start 2025 right. Stand, move, thrive with Uplift Desk. Welcome
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: On today's show, three of Donald Trump's most extreme cabinet
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: nominees were peppered with questions at their confirmation hearings this week.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: We'll talk about the nuttiest moments and whether any of
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: it will matter in the end. We'll also get into
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: the nationwide chaos caused by Trump's spending freeze, which the
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: White House backed away from after a judge blocked the order.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: But even as Trump cut bait on that dangerous and
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: terrible idea, he moved ahead with Many more, including forcing
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: every federal employee to resign or face loyalty tests and
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: preparing to house thousands of immigrants at Guantanamo Bay. What
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: a wonderful country. But first, we shouldn't have to talk
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: about the plane crash in D.C. on this show because
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: there usually isn't an immediate political angle to a midair
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: collision that hasn't yet been investigated. But half the voters
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: decided to make Donald Trump president again, so here we are.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: The American Airlines flight from Wichita was about to land
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: at DCA when it collided with an army helicopter on
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: a training mission, killing all 64 people on the plane
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: and three in the helicopter. Trump held a press conference
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: the next morning before anyone had any real information about
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: what actually happened. So, of course, being president, he took
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to console the nation and reassure the public
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: that air travel is safe. Let's listen.
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: We do not know what led to this crash, but
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: we have some very strong opinions. and ideas, and I
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: think we'll probably state those opinions now. I put safety first. Obama, Biden,
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: and the Democrats put policy first. Their policy was horrible,
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: and their politics was even worse. They put a big
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: push to put diversity into the FAA's program. And I
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: assume maybe this is the reason. The FAA, which is
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: overseen by Secretary Pete Buttigieg, A real winner. That guy's
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: a real winner. Do you know how badly everything's run
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: since he's run this Department of Transportation? He's a disaster.
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: On DEI and the claims that you've made, are you
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: saying this crash was somehow caused and the result of
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: diversity hiring? And what evidence have you seen to support
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: these claims?
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: It just could have been. That's why I'm trying to
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: figure out how you can come to the conclusion right
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: now that diversity had something to do with this crash.
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: Because I have common sense, okay?
• 4:39
  Speaker 5: And Unfortunately, a lot of people don't.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Later in the day, he did a press event where
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: he signed a memo to the FAA blaming the crash
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: again on diversity programs under Obama and Biden and ordering
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: the administrator to roll them back. So Trump has been
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: president for two weeks, signed a record number of executive orders,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: fired a record number of federal workers, and is blaming
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: his own FAA on the first fatal commercial plane crash
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: on American soil in 16 years because the FAA says
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: on its website, that they want to make sure that
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: people of different backgrounds have equal opportunity to get hired,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: including people with disabilities, language that was there during Trump's
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: entire first term. I mean, it seems like Trump got
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: what he wanted, which was to, you know, pick a
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: fight about whether the plane crash was caused by diversity.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: And so he got what he wanted because that is
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: what everyone has had to talk about all day, arguing
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: about whether the plane crash that has yet to be investigated,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: the investigation has just started, was caused by diversity. Dan,
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: your thoughts?
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: We have to begin with just pointing out and saying
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: out loud just how absolutely disgusting and cynical what Trump
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: did is, right? There are upwards of 70 families who
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: are dealing with loss, who are trying to find out
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: what happened. There are communities across this country and the
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: world who who have lost community members because of this.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: It is a traumatic thing for the entire nation to
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: deal with when we have a plane crash like this.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: And instead of consoling people, instead of trying to comfort people,
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: what Trump did, as he does with every tragedy, is
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: immediately try to exploit it for his own gain. And
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: I know this is going to happen all the time
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: over the next four years, but I do think we
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: have to continue to call it out when he does it,
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: even if it is only maybe for our benefit. But
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: we cannot, like, there is something dangerous about allowing this
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: to just become the normal way in which we do things.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Just reading some rote pablum that your speechwriters wrote for
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: you that you clearly did not care about before launching
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: into this absurd, unfounded attack, that is not sufficient, right?
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  Speaker 2: And it should be called out for. And I do
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: think we– you say he got the debate because we
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: are all talking about it. We as a select group
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: of people of which we are part of, the rest
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: of the country did tune in for this, right? The
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: plane crash is something that gets people who do not
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: pay attention to the news to pay attention to the news.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: It is when historically CNN's ratings go way up during
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: a plane crash because people, they fly, they think about flying.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: It is a big deal. And so people who saw
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Trump do that today, I'm not convinced that this is
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: some giant political winner for him to see him doing
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: that hours after the plane crash. And so like, yes,
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: there will be a big debate about DI and we
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: can talk about how Democrats should talk about the plane
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: crash and that going forward. But In the moment, what
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: he did was repellent, and I think a lot of
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: people will find it that way.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Sarah Longwell had done some focus groups last year early on,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: and she was talking to some voters in the focus
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: group who said that they didn't like Trump, but they
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: were going to vote for Trump. And I think there's
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: this guy who said, you know, I'm just going to
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: close my eyes for the next four years, not watch
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: them on TV, and just enjoy the Trump policies.
• 8:02
  Speaker 6: And.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: The reason that has never been a real option is
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: because every president faces crises and disasters. And I started
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: thinking about this when the fires hit L.A. a couple
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: weeks ago before he was president. And as people are
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: still fleeing from their homes, as we were all figuring
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: out who should evacuate where and we were trying to
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: get alerts, Donald Trump immediately said, kicked off this whole thing,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: blaming Gavin Newsom for the fires, talking about fucking water
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: in Northern California, all that bullshit. And I thought to myself, like,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: this is going to be the next four years. And
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: even in the best case scenario that any of us
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: can imagine with the Trump presidency, right? He does a
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: bunch of corruption, still pretty bad, but we all make it.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: We survive a second term. Like, there are still going
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: to be crises. There are going to be disasters. There's
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: going to be tragedies. And when the country tunes in,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: we're not going to be able to get good information
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: from him. He's going to pick fights with people he
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: doesn't like and his political enemies and blame people and
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: divide people and make people angrier. And he is going
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: to compound every single fucking tragedy that this country faces.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: And God forbid, when there is a crisis that depends
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: on all of us getting good information, like there was
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: last time he was president during the fucking pandemic, we're
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: not going to know what to do because we don't have,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: the media has been splintered, balkanized. Like no one knows
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: where to go for good information. We can't trust our president.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: We can't trust the government because there's a bunch of
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: fucking bozos that are running the government now. And, you know,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: like last night when this first broke, I was like terrified,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: as you all know, very nervous flyer. It's like worst nightmare,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: you know, and I saw on Twitter immediately some people
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: on the left were like, oh, this is Trump's fault
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: because he got to the Aviation Safety Committee last week
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: and also the maybe the freeze affected this and that thing.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: And I, and I thought to myself, look, maybe some
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: of this could be true. Maybe it's not, but like,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to say this right now. Like the
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: plane just crashed. Let's just like have a fucking moment.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Let's not be like him. And not because like, we
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: should be nice, you know, like the Let's if we
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: want to present people with an alternative and with a
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: real choice, then that requires not acting like Trump when
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: a disaster happens and like immediately just throwing around accusations
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: without knowing all the facts. And also, by the way,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: like let's give the country and each other a moment
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: to collectively grieve and mourn and also like find out,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: you know, reliable information. And so I was like, oh,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: it's just like it's so annoying. But whatever. It's like
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: random accounts on Twitter. Who the fuck cares? And then
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: wake up today. Thursday, and the fucking President of the
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: United States is out there, the first thing he does
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: is blame diversity, doesn't even know who the air traffic
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: controllers were, what caused the plane, whether it was the
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: air traffic controller's fault, whether it was the FAA's fault,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: whether it was the pilot's fault, the helicopter's fault, or
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: whether it was no one's fault, because sometimes tragedies just
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: fucking happen. Fires just fucking happen. Sometimes just things happen.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: And like, it's just, it is.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: It's going to be a long four years, man. It is.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Two thoughts on this. One, obviously Trump, without any evidence,
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: as reporters, I think, did a very good job of
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: calling out, blaming this on diversity. Like, it's obviously a
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: lie that this is DEI's fault. Like, Trump doesn't know that.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: No one knows that. And it's not how the world works.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: But it's also the most true thing that Trump and
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Republicans ever say, because what they truly believe is that
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: what makes America weaker is diversity, right? That everything that
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: is different from what they view as inherent American culture, right,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: white male Christian culture makes us weaker, right? It is
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: like probably the most true thing. And I think this
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: was Charlie Kirk who tweeted this. I would say I apologize,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: but I don't, if it was someone else, but was
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: if you want to go back to the 50s, you
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: have to get rid of the 60s or you have
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: to undo the 60s. And that is what this is
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: all about. This idea that like in their mind, they
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: truly believe that any effort that seeks to add diverse
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: points of view diverse backgrounds to an institution, which means
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: that it is less white, less male. It's therefore a
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: weaker institution. Like that is what they truly believe.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, what they are saying now is, the
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: new thing now is if you are a woman or
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: a black American or Latino or Asian or gay or whatever,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Anything but a white man, and you have a job
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: that is a senior position, whether it's in government or
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: media or politics or anything else, you got there because
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: of diversity efforts, because of DEI. There is no way
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: you could have earned that job. They start with you
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: got the job because of DEI, and then you have
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: to somehow prove that you didn't get the job because
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: of DEI, but that you got it because of merit.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's Kamala Harris, the DEI vice president.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: And the second thing here, and this goes a little
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: bit to the politics of this, is there was this
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: surreal thing of me sitting on my couch in my
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: house in the middle of the day, watching Donald Trump
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: in the briefing room, stage managing a press conference with
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: a bunch of fucking dolts, right? I was like back
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: in the 2020. And that is the stuff that people
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: don't like about Trump, right? When they are tuning in
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: and he is acting like a clown, when he can...
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: clearly unable to meet the moment. When he is background
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: noise to low gas prices and cheaper milk, he's fine.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: When he is in your face, when you want information
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: and he is making about himself, that is what causes
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: people to take a step back to not like about it.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: And that is what that was today.
• 13:45
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: And he's got luminaries like Pete Hegseth and J.D. Vance
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: and Sean Duffy, former Real World contestant, who's now the
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: transportation secretary, all parroting the exact same line. It's like
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: all taken. They all have to take turns going up
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: to the podium and just parroting exactly what Trump said. And,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: you know, idiots like Sean Duffy and Pete Hegseth, they
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: probably believe it, too.
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: J.D.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Vance, like, he knows better. Like, he knows better, but
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: he has signed up for it, and he's just going
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: to fucking parrot the line, the Trump line, and just
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: be the guy that Trump calls up and says, yeah, no,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: go ahead and say what I just said.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, it was a press conference of two reality stars.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: One cable host and a former CNN pundit all together
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: to lead our government.
• 14:37
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• 16:05
  Speaker 1: So I wanted to ask you about the Democratic response.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: Pete Buttigieg, for example, he posted a tweet calling Trump's
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: comments despicable, which they were, and pointing out that there
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: were zero fatal airline crashes in the four years that
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: he was secretary and then saying, quote, President Trump now
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: oversees the military and the FAA. One of his first
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: acts was to fire and suspend some of the key
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: personnel who helped keep our skies safe. Time for the
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: president to show actual leadership and explain what he will
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: do to prevent this from happening again. And of course,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: I mentioned there were, you know, pieces circulating among Trump
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: critics about the gutted Aviation Safety Committee and also how
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: the head of the FAA resigned last week. And this
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: was after, you know, this... A couple months ago, Elon
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Musk went after him on Twitter and said he should
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: resign because the FAA sort of demanded some kind of
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: safety fix to a SpaceX rocket. And Elon was very
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: pissed about that. He thought it was a regulatory overreach
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: and said that he threatened he was going to sue
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: the FAA. So, you know, that guy's out. So there's
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: no FAA administrator. How do you think Democrats should handle
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: all of this?
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: I think Pete handled it exactly right, which is we do.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: Trump wants a big fight about DEI. That's the fight
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: he wants to have. We don't have to take the
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: bait on that, right? We don't have to get down.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: We don't have to fight on his chosen territory every time.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: We just have to always remind ourselves that Trump is
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: in charge of everything. He owns it all. And in
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: this plane crash, he's the person responsible for the FAA
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: whose air traffic controllers were giving direction to the airplane.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: He was in charge of the military whose helicopter was
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: involved in the accident. He's in charge of the National
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Transportation Safety Board, which is investigating it. And after the
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: end of this investigation, if they find out that there
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: were insufficient number of air traffic controllers, as is very possible,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: that the few air traffic controllers we have were deployed incorrectly,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump's the person for fixing that problem. He ran
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: promising to fix all of our problems. He put us
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: in a golden age, and he did not do that.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: And we should hold him accountable for that. I'm not
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: saying that voters are going to blame him on his
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: ninth or 10th day for a plane crash that happens
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: on his watch. I don't think they hold presidents responsible
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: for crashing planes. but they do hold presidents accountable for
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: how they address the crisis itself and how they solve
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: the problems that led to that crisis, right? The voters
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: did not blame George W. Bush for the hurricane hitting
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: New Orleans. They blamed him for the fact that we
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: weren't prepared for it and how poorly they responded to it.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: And the way that he is responsible, we have to
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: hold him accountable for what happens from this point forward.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Also, I think it is useful to our point that
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: we've been making which is like democrats don't want to
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: just defend institutions but want to be the part we
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: should be the party of reform like have the investigation
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: and whatever reforms need to be made to the faa
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: they should be made and we should push for them
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: and if there are reforms that should have been made
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: under the biden and obama administrations then like let's find
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: that out you know and look every single this was
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: by the way an f former faa official sent this
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: message to David Shepardson at Reuters who covers aviation for Reuters.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: And just so people know, he said every single air
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: traffic controller candidate goes under the same rigorous testing. Very
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: few applicants even make it to the training stage because
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: the process is so difficult. And those diversity initiatives that
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Trump mentioned don't even apply to air traffic controller hiring.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: So that's a former FAA official. So that's just complete
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: bullshit from Trump. And then, you know, Juliette Kayyem in
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: The Atlantic, she's a former DHS official, you know, she
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: pointed out that in 2023, FAA identified 19 serious runway incursions,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: which is the most in almost a decade. So this
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: is not, like, completely out of the blue. There was
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: a series of close calls over the last couple of
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: years that alarmed a lot of, uh, you know, air
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: safety experts and the causes have been varied. It's either
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: air traffic control, staffing shortages, which by the way, the
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: New York times reports, there was one air traffic controller
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: at DCA the night of the crash when there should
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: have been to pilot and experience demand for air travel,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: outdated technology. And of course, uh, Knowing all of this
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: and knowing that DCA is already a very crowded airport
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: and there's also like military flights and training flights like
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: the one that took place the night of the crash
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: that happened. The FAA actually added flights to Reagan last
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: year over the objections of a lot of local lawmakers.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: And why did they do that, Sean? Well, Congress did it.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: And why did they do it? Because they want to
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: land at DCA instead of Dulles when they come in
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: for work.
• 20:38
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: But again, it's like, and you know what? So just
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: find out what we need to have safe fucking air
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: travel and do it. And it doesn't matter like whose
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: politics that fucks up. Just do it. But I will
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: say that in just two weeks, the Trump administration is,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: you know, we're going to talk about the freezing all spending.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: We're going to cut government. Elon Musk is telling people
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: to quit and to take buyouts. And if you There
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: is waste in government. There is efficiencies to be had.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: There's an abuse. All that stuff is good, right? We
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: should all clean up government. We should make it more efficient.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: But they are gutting government and want to gut government
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: so badly that it's going to get to the point
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: where basic government functions that all of us depend on,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: like air safety, like the FAA, like air traffic control,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: are going to be in jeopardy because these fucking people
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: don't think we need government. They think that government is
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: there for them to get rich and for them to
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: do favors for their friends and punish their enemies. And
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: they don't see a real use for government in helping
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: protect the American people.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're going to get to the freeze and
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: the hiring thing in a second. But just on this point,
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: there's a shortage of air traffic controllers. You know what's
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: going to make it harder to get more air traffic controllers?
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: Cutting federal spending. making it higher to hire people, and
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: then just shitting on the federal government so much that
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: no one wants to work there.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: How are you going to get enough people, qualified people,
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: who can do the job in the pipeline? Because as
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: this FAA official pointed out, it's hard to become an
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: air traffic controller. You need people of certain training and qualifications.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: And so you need a very big funnel to get
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: them in. And you're not going to get enough people,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: qualified people, to do the job if you don't have
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: the money to recruit them, you don't have the money
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: to pay them, and you make working in the federal
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: government seem like it sucks.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Especially if... A lot of people who are training to
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: be air traffic controllers, who are in school to be
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: air traffic controllers, and the ones who aren't white men,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: what are they going to, why are they going to
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: want to be in the federal government? When now, anytime
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: that they, you know, if they get the job of
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: air traffic controller, that Donald Trump and his administration or
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: potentially future Republican administrations are going to call them DEI hires.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: And if something goes wrong, they're going to get blamed
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: because they're DEI hires. What the fuck are we doing?
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about the freeze. The other big news
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: this week was the completely out of the blue Trump
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: administration memo announcing a freeze on all government grants and loans.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: The memo followed executive orders last week calling for the
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: government to stop spending money on woke projects, not really
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: defined well, and it immediately plunged nearly every function of
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: the federal government into complete chaos. Democratic and Republican officials
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: all over the country were fielding panicked calls from people
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: in their states who were worried about not being able
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: to access the Funding for Medicaid, the Medicaid portal was
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: briefly shut down. Head start classes, free school lunches, college
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: financial aid, medical research, and a lot of other programs
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: at the White House said were not part of the freeze,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: but somehow were still temporarily interrupted. A bunch of nonprofit
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: groups immediately challenged the memo, and a federal judge agreed
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: to put it on hold for six days. The White
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: House then rescinded the memo after the judge agreed to
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: put it on hold so they could comply with the
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: judge's order. But then... White House Press Secretary Caroline Leavitt
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: tweeted that they weren't actually backing down and that the
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: rescinded memo was only intended to avoid confusion with the
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: judge's order. Then a second federal judge, considering a lawsuit
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: brought by the Democratic attorneys general, said of Leavitt's post, quote,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: I can't cross-examine the tweet.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: Not yet.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Not yet. But said he may need to grant a
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: longer-term restraining order because Leavitt is making, quote, a distinction
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: without a difference. We later learned from reporting in The
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: New York Times and The Washington Post that the White
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: House Office of Management and Budget put out the memo
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: without getting approval from senior officials like White House Chief
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: of Staff Susie Wiles or even Deputy Chief of Staff
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Stephen Miller. And they were all pretty pissed about the fallout.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: The entire episode gave Democrats a chance to show the
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: fight that they'd been lacking over the last two weeks.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: And let me tell you, Dan, they were pretty happy
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: with themselves. Let's listen to Chuck Schumer.
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: People are aroused.
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: I haven't seen people so aroused in a very, very
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: long time.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Dan, I want to know, when's the last time you
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: can remember being this aroused by a rescinded OMB memo?
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Look, John, everyone has their thing. And I would say
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: that OMB memos have never been my thing. But I
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: am also not- Don't kink shame people. I am not
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: kink shaming anyone, especially the Senate minority leader, right? So
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: live your life, Chuck Schumer, whatever floats your boat.
• 25:17
  Speaker 6: Wow. Wow.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: On the process point about how the White House rushed
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: this decision and generally stepped on a rake, what happened
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: to the whole, this is a professional White House now.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Susie Wiles is running it like SEAL Team Six, you know?
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: What- What happened? I thought we were, I thought this
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: was the Trump White House that was finally figuring it
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: all out.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: RIP to all of those beat sweetener pieces written by
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: all those White House reporters about how, what an amazing
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: job Susie Wiles would do. Now she'd make all the
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: trains run on time. Look, to be fair here, it
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: is true that this version of the Trump White House
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: is better run than the first version. But that doesn't
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: mean it's well run. The fact that some minion in
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: the Office of Management and Budget, which currently does not
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: have a director, can put out a memo that vaguely
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: shuts down trillions of dollars of federal funding in a
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: moment without running it by anyone is one of the
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: most evocative examples of incompetence I've ever seen in my life.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: And then the fact that they put this memo out,
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: it's not even like this was a bad idea. This
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: was like a well-executed bad idea. The memo was so vague,
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: no one had any idea what it meant. It really
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: shut the spigot off and caused mass chaos across the country.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: One memo written by, once again, an OMB nerd, which
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: is what we always call them when we work with them.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: A nerd deep in the OMB sends out this memo,
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: shuts down Medicaid funding, housing vouchers, everything, total disaster. Then
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: the White House, instead of just being like, throw the
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: OMB minion under the bus, all defends this. Stephen Miller,
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: who did not sign off on it, went on CNN
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: to defend it. And they defended it up until the
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: moment a judge took it away and Trump got upset
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: about the bad press coverage and they rescinded the memo.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Not only Stephen Miller, who works in the White House,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: but Republican politicians all over the country defended the memo.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: The Speaker of the House.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: Glenn Youngkin, Governor of Virginia, was like, this is misinformation
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: spread by the media and partisans and all these Democrats.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: This is hysteria and blah, blah, blah. And then the
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: White House was like, oh, yeah, we take it back, actually.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: But I do think that it is revealing about the
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: argument that Stephen Miller was making. And Russ Vogt, who
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: is going to run the Office of Management and Budget,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: the man who authored Project 2025, they believe that the
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: president does have the power to control all federal spending
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: and decide who gets what money, even though it is
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: the job of Congress, according to the Constitution, to appropriate funding.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: And Donald Trump and Donald Trump's White House now believe
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: that they have the power of the purse, not Congress.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: in contradiction to the Constitution, and that they get to
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: just not spend money that they don't agree with that
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Congress has appropriate. So I do think that they are
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: gearing up to eventually challenge the, this is known as
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: the Impoundment Act, which just makes clear, because it was
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: clear in the Constitution before that, but makes clear that
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: presidents may be able to delay spending certain money, or
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: they can maybe not spend extra money if they have
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: achieved the goals of the law with the money that
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: they already spent, but they are not allowed. Presidents are
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: not allowed to just not spend money because it doesn't
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: comport with their political positions if Congress has passed a
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: law appropriating it. And Stephen Miller and Russ Vogt don't
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: think that's, they think that the president is king and
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: gets to do whatever he wants with his power. And
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: so it's gonna go, they're gonna eventually challenge this and
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: it's gonna go to the Supreme Court.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's fine. They work for the king, so
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: maybe that's less surprising. The person who is more surprising
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: and alarming in this is Mike Johnson, the Speaker of
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: the House. The power of the purse is their singular power.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: It is the greatest check and balance they have over
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: the functioning of the executive branches, how they dictate policy,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: have influence on what happens. And Trump was like, no.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: And he's like, okay, more please, sir. I mean, just
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: absolutely embarrassing.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: They have all decided, except for, I don't know, maybe
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: three Republican senators at most, four, and I haven't seen
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: anything from any House members, that Donald Trump because he
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: was elected, he can do whatever he wants. And that
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: their role is just to cheer him on and go
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: on TV, I guess, on all their favorite regime media
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: channels and talk about how wonderful Dear Leader is. Why
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: do these people want their jobs? Just go make money somewhere.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: You could probably make more money in the private sector.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: What are you doing? You're not making any decisions on
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: your own. You're just there to fluff Donald Trump.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's an image you're painting.
• 29:58
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: It's, you know, Chuck Schumer.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: It's chasing your head, Chuck Schumer. Chuck Schumer's got you going.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately, unfortunately.
• 30:15
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• 31:28
  Speaker 2: So let's.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Start with the Democrats now that we're back on Chuck
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Schumer's arousal. The Times had a story on Wednesday about
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: how Democratic governors got on a call with Schumer to
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: push him and the Democratic caucus to do more to
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: oppose Trump and his cabinet nominees. More about them in
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: a minute. because, you know, things like the spending freeze
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: are pummeling the states, but the governors themselves can't really
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: take action to stop it. Presumably the details of the
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: call were leaked, presumably by the governors or their staff
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: to the New York Times reporter, Reid Epstein. What do
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: you make of this piece, the blame shifting and just
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: zooming out sort of like the democratic response in general? And,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: you know, it does appear like the party has found
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: its footing in on their response to the OMB spending freeze?
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, basically, I think Reid Epstein got a window
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: into a lot of the conversations that are happening in
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: the Democratic Party right now. There has been, particularly in
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: at least the first week of the Trump presidency, a
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: tremendous amount of frustration at how elected Democrats more generally,
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: but congressional Democrats in particular, have acted. I have ranted,
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: I believe, on this podcast and in multiple other forums
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: on the internet about Democrats voting for Trump nominees, like
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: to what end? Like, what do you think the upside
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: of that is? Why would you want to put your name? Like,
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: do you really want to have endorsed Sean Duffy? Is
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: that really what you want?
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: Is that an ad you're going to run in your
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: race about your bipartisan credentials? I did support Sean Duffy.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: No one knows who that is. Or the billionaire hedge
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: fund manager who's going to help implement the Trump tariffs.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: What's the upside? What's the argument for it? Some of
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: it is unfair in the sense that there's nothing Chuck
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: Schumer and the Senate Democrats could do to stop any
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: of these appointments from happening. No Senate Democrat voted for
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Pete Hegseth. No Democrat's been the 50th vote for one
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: of these people. That has not happened. They've just voted.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: I don't understand the votes, but they've been in places
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: where there were enough Republicans that put them over the top,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: so it didn't really matter. I mean, they have very
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: limited legislative authority to stop stuff, but there is just
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: this frustration that there's just been too much silence and
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: too much equivocation from Democrats in their messaging, where it's like,
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: we just can't figure out the right way to talk
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: about Trump, because before, it seemed easy to us, because
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: we felt like we had all the political high ground,
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: because even if we lost the presidency in 2016, we
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: had the majority of voters were anti-Trump. Now, the polarity
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: of voters pick Trump, And we're just like, everything is
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: on one hand, we disagree with Trump. On the other hand,
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: we also agree the borders should be secure, right? It's just,
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: there's like all this equivocation. In the response to the
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: federal funding freeze, Democrats did better, right? They got louder.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: They spoke more strongly. They spoke with one voice. Now,
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: I don't think we should break our arm patting ourselves
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: on the back over it, but I think you should
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: get credit. It was better than it had been to date.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: And I think if there's a lesson to take from it,
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: It is that the things that Democrats were saying about
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: the federal funding freeze was not our typical pay on
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: to institutions that sort of sounds like something on the
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: cutting room floor from Hamilton. But instead, we just talked
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: about how people were getting hurt, right? This program in
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: my district can't get money. These people can't pay their rent.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: This Head Start program is closed and parents don't ever
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: take their kids because of this. It's just like, very simple, granular,
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: real-world impacts on real humans. And I think there is
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: a lesson in that going forward, that with more of
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: that and less of the stemwinders about democracy.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: And I think a good lesson, too, is just say
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: what you feel. Just go to the mic, get to
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: your favorite platform, all the platforms, whatever, and just say
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: how you feel about this. And There was plenty of
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: things I heard Democrats say over the last couple of
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: days about it that were cheesy or made me cringe.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to criticize any of it because it
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: is more important to get out there and talk quickly
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: and show some emotion, show some anger over this on
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: behalf of the people that you represent. Not just anger
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: at Trump, but anger on behalf of people who are
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: getting screwed by Trump. I think that's an important distinction.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: And just do it. And sometimes it's going to hit.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's not. Sometimes you're going to say things that resonate.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you're going to say things that make people cringe.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: It's okay. Like, this is going to be, it's going
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: to long for years. But I think just getting out
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: there and talking and doing it, you always say, like, everything, everywhere,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: all at once. Like, that is better than sitting and
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: waiting and thinking about how's this going to pull and
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: what should I say. And we need a caucus meeting first.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: And we need to just go out there. Go out
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: there and talk.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: This is a really important point because I think one
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: of the things that held Democrats back is we're waiting
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: for the message. We don't know what it is. We
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: haven't analyzed all of the results yet. We haven't done
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: a bunch of exit polls or focus groups with first-time
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: Trump voters or whatever else. And people are– we're flummoxed.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: We're all going to fucking die waiting for the catalyst results.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, they're supposed to come in like six weeks,
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: so I hope not. But it's just– The election shook
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: Democrats to their core. What we thought worked did not
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: work in any way, shape, or form and blew up
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: in our face. And so people are waiting for the
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: right thing to say. But if there is one lesson
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: of the Trump era, is that volume and frequency is
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: much more important than precision when it comes to messaging.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: You just get out there and start talking.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: By the way, because that's the game he's playing.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: It is. Just talk all the time. Because if you're
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: talking all the time, It increases the number of chances
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: that someone will actually hear what you're saying. And if
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: you happen to fuck up and say the wrong thing,
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: if you're out there five minutes later, you're going to
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: pay less of a price for it. This is one
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: of the things that really hurt Kamala Harris was she
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: was out there so much less than Trump. So when
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: she did make a mistake like she did on The View,
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: it haunted her in ways. Trump was out there saying
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: crazy shit on a podcast three times a day. But
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: because he was doing it, there was always a new
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: thing coming after it. There was less political consequences for
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: doing it.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Same problem with Biden over the last four years.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, let's not like, if you speak every six months, like.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, right. Um, but yeah, no, it, it, it
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: is a volume game and just someone, uh, added this up,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: but apparently like in Trump's first term in his first week,
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: he was in front of the press or in front
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: of cameras speaking for like four hours. The first week
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Biden in his first week was a little less, maybe
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: like three hours or something. The first week of Trump's
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: second term, it was like eight hours, uh, He was
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: in front of camera. I mean, even like he did
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: that fucking awful press conference about the plane crash this morning,
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Thursday morning. And he did like another press avail as
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: he was signing the more executive orders, blaming Biden and
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Obama for the plane crash later in the day. And
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: he was taking more questions.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: For even as nuts as Trump was in 2017, that
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: he was still abiding sort of by a what is
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: now an anachronistic model of political communications where you try
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: to stage manage stuff, right? We're going to have like,
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: this is the story of the day. If we do X,
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: we can't do Y later because it'll ruin our headlines
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: about our EOs. It's like, nope, just do it all.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: It's always happening. It's never ending. There is no news cycle.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: And Democrats could learn some lessons that like, we obviously
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: have a huge megaphone disparity here. Like we don't have,
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: we have a very small handful of politicians who can
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: get real attention and It's great if we can all
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: speak with one voice because that will help about one thing,
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: but that's not going to happen every time.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: Not necessary.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: So just get out there. Yeah.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: So the spending freeze fiasco has done little to slow
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Trump down. Keeps signing orders and memos targeting immigrants, government workers,
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: trans kids, educators, parents, just about everyone. In the past
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: few days, he's issued the following executive orders that will
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: deny federal funding for schools that teach kids about racism
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: and discrimination, penalize schools that don't teach content that is
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: patriotic enough. I guess Trump gets to define what that means.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: An executive order that will deport international students who protested
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: the war in Gaza, will revoke their visas. ban gender-affirming
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: care for trans children, and send tens of thousands of
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: undocumented immigrants to detention facilities at Guantanamo Bay. The White
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: House also sent a mass email offering more than 2
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: million federal employees a buyout if they just reply to
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: the email and write the word resign. We're going to
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: talk about the email in a second, but on the
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: executive orders, which one of these seems real? Which of
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: them seem like bullshit?
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: Most of them are bullshit in the traditional sense of
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: the president having the authority to implement what he said
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: he is going to do. Not just what you mentioned here.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: Across the board, most of these executive orders, they're not
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: even really executive orders. They're really presidential memorandums. They're missives.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: They are press releases with signatures. He doesn't have the
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: authority to do the things he's saying. There is a
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: legal precedent for them. Some are very clearly in violation
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: of the Constitution. I mean, will hopefully be struck down,
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: but who knows. But there is not a ton of
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: actual legal power in it. But I think that really
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: undersells the danger here. So let's take the example of
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: the ones in education trying to deal with, quote unquote,
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: critical race theory or forcing patriotic education. The federal government
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: has almost no role in what local schools teach. Even
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: if they were to use federal funding to try to
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: put policies in place, that's very limited. 90% of school
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: funding comes from state and local communities. Even in the
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: states where they have actually passed laws putting some of
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: the stuff into place, studies have shown that they've had
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: very little impact. In many cases, they have not been
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: as impactful as the conservative legislators would think because there's
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: not someone in the school telling teachers what to do.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: But There is a chilling effect of these sternly worded
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: but very vague missives declaring that things are now illegal
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: or not allowed, or if you do them, there will
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: be retribution. For example, Michigan State University this week canceled
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: their Lunar New Year celebration because they thought, according to
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: reporting in the Lansing Journal, that it might violate anti-DEI policies.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: It's because they're confused. They don't know. Here's this thing.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: We have no idea what it actually means. Are we
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: going to get ourselves in trouble? Are we going to
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: face political blowback? Could there be a big fight over this?
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: Could there be retribution from the government? I'm sure that
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: if the general counsel of the university looked at it
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: and was like, obviously, we would win this fight, you
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: don't want the fight. You can't afford the fight financially, time-wise.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: And so you're going to see people making a lot
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: of decisions to avoid getting on the wrong side of
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: Trump on some of these things. And I think about
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: here in California, like up where I live, the public
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: schools every fall do Ruby Bridges Day to celebrate Ruby
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Bridges and to teach about segregation and desegregating the schools.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: And everyone, if you can, is to walk to school
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: that day like Ruby Bridges did. I don't think this
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: would happen here, but you can see in another part
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: of the country, people wondering whether that was too woke
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: to have, right? Is Black History Month going to be
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: too woke? Are people going to trim some of that
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: stuff back? Because they're worried about violating, angering a federal government.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: Even the federal government has no statutory authority to enforce
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: these policies on you. Yeah.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: And just another example that just popped up that I
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: think is even more consequential, which is the EO on
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: banning gender-affirming care for children. Again, that is not something
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: that you can due by executive order. I'm fairly certain,
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: though I do not have a legal degree. But a
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: children's hospital and healthcare provider in Richmond just said that
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: they have suspended all gender-affirming care for those under 19
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: years old because they feel like they have gotten very
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: specific guidance on this from the state. I assume that
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: means that a lot of these Republican governors who like Trump,
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: like Glenn Youngkin in Virginia, probably see the federal EO,
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: match it with a state EO. Now, What's ultimately going
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: to happen with gender-affirming care for children, it's a case
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: at the Supreme Court right now. So it's going to
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: be decided there. I don't have a lot of hope
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: about how that's going to turn out. Also, Congress, with
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: the Republican Congress, I'm sure they're going to try to include,
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: there's been some reporting that they might include like a
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: Hyde-like amendment in the budget bill that sort of, you know,
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: threatens to cut off all federal aid to hospitals and
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: healthcare providers that provide gender-affirming care. like they currently do
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: for hospitals that provide abortions. That's the Hyde Amendment. So
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's the last word here. But you're
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: right that the chilling effect is there's going to be
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: schools and hospitals and organizations all across the country in
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: red states and maybe in some blue states or red
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: areas of blue states that just take these seriously because
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: it's a fucking executive order from the federal government. On Guantanamo...
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Are we really going to build a 30,000-person detention facility
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: in Guantanamo Bay? Just for context, the Cook County Jail
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: in Chicago is one of the largest single-site facilities in
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: the country, and it has an average daily population of 9,000.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: We're going to build a 30,000-person detention facility that who's
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: going to run? And we're just going to send undocumented immigrants?
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: We don't know where they're from, where they came from.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: We're just going to put them in a detention center
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: for what? Indefinitely? Like, what the fuck?
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: That we would hold migrants in one of the most
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: notorious prisons in the world, right? Something that has been
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: at Guantanamo Bay has been a recruiting tool for terrorists
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: for 20 years now. And I assume would be run
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: by the military because Guantanamo is a military base. So
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: you would have a military run prison camp for migrants
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: who came to America. I know Tom Homan said this
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: is the worst of the worst, which.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Which by the way- You know, they've been saying that
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: we thought it was going to be bullshit. It is bullshit.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: I think the the rate for how many undocumented immigrants
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: have been rounded up and deported with criminal records versus
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: undocumented immigrants who the only law they broke was illegally
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: crossing in the first place is like like Joe Biden
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: had a higher percentage of deportations that were actually immigrants
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: with criminal records than Trump has in his first week already.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: So it's just the whole thing was bullshit. They're not
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: just going after undocumented immigrants with criminal records. They're going
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: after every undocumented immigrant that they find.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is something that Tommy and Ben can
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: talk about much better than I could, at least. It's
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: not like the U.S. reputation is doing fucking great right now.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, with Donald Trump as our president, both our
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: role and what has happened in Gaza has been deeply
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: damaging to our reputation around the world. But The idea
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: that we're going to house migrants in a prison camp is,
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: like I said, a notorious prison camp, is going to
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: be deeply, deeply damaging to our reputation around the world.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: Also, this just happened this week in a speech that
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump gave, and no one paid a lot of
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: attention to it. But after he finished his whole anti-immigrant thing,
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: he was like, and then there's some people, and maybe
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: they didn't come here illegally, but they're just criminals in
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: this country. There's criminals, and they're here. and they're really
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: bad criminals, and you know what? I think we're gonna
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: get approval to just deport them. We're gonna send them
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: to some other foreign countries. And I'm like, you're gonna
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: send American citizens who are convicted of crimes, you're gonna
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: deport them to foreign countries? When is the line that
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: he's gonna start trying to send Americans to Guantanamo Bay,
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: American citizens to Guantanamo Bay? Like what?
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: Are there any particular American citizens that you've been worried
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: about over the recent years of being sent to Guantanamo Bay?
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, I just, I mean, the thing is, it
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: has been a running joke for nearly a decade among,
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: about us, about being sent to Guantanamo, about, you know,
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: various people who have been, Trump has been sent to
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: Guantanamo and they're building it now. It's going to be interesting.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Like you would feel like you're going to need money
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: to build, a lot of money to build the largest
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: prison under American control at a military base. I presume
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: you probably have to appropriate money for that. Maybe they
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: can find it in the couch cushions the way they
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: found money for the wall. But there will likely be
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: a big congressional debate about this.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: A big congressional debate. The courts will have a role
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: as well. And look, I think that the scary moment
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: here is what happens when the Supreme Court, if the
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court, you know, hands down a decision that Trump
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: is opposed to and what Trump does. And so far,
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: the White House complied with the federal judge that blocked
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: their spending freeze. And I guess it was kind of
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: a fuck up in OMB anyway. So whatever, they were
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: fine with it. But it's a very conservative court. And
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: a lot of times they give Trump exactly what he wants,
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: but they hand down a decision that he opposes. And
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: then he says, yeah, I'm not going to listen to
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: the court. you know jd vance was on a fucking
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: podcast a couple years ago it said they told said
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: oh my advice for trump in a second term would
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: be to fire everyone in the federal government and replace
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: them with all your people and when john roberts tells
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: you you can't do it you say yeah you and
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: what army and jd vance is on on the record
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: saying that so like what happens that that's the real
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: constitutional crisis that's when that's when people start going to
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: guantanamo so that's something to watch for that's coming attractions
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: dan Cool, cool. Okay, we're going to take a quick break,
• 49:41
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• 49:44
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• 49:46
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• 49:48
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• 52:19
  Speaker 1: Let's start with the buyout. The email had the subject
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: line fork in the road, which was exactly what the
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: email that Elon Musk sent to Twitter employees had said,
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: fork in the road. right after he took over the company.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: Do you have a sense of whether this move is serious,
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: whether the federal government is authorized to spend money on
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: a buyout for federal employees who decide not to come
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: back to the federal government to work?
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: I have no idea whether they are technically authorized to
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: do it, but I imagine this is quite serious. As
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: you point out, this is exactly what Elon Musk did
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: at Twitter. He has installed some of his closest allies,
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: people who helped him, with all of the layoffs at Twitter,
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: at the Office of Personnel Management, which is an obscure
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: but incredibly powerful agency which staffs the government, I imagine
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: that there probably is some sort of authority that allows
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: you to, because these people are choosing, by doing this,
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: they were not firing them, right? This is a way
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: to get around civil service protections, right? You are not
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: firing them. You are giving them the opportunity to leave. Now,
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: Judd Legum in his newsletter, Popular Information, has pointed out,
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: he's read the actual missive that the OPM posted on
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: their website. And it's not actually a buyout. A buyout
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: is you take the money for the next nine months
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: and you stop working tomorrow. What they are saying is
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: basically you leave in September and your job duties will change,
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: but you're not free of working. You might still work.
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of gray area into what would happen.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: You'd be free of some in-person responsibilities, but- It is
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: incorrect in Judd's view, and he makes a very compelling
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: case that this is a buyout. It's actually just a
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: way to get people to forcible resignation or encourage resignation.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: Well, there's also a video uncovered of Russ Vogt, again,
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: Project 2025 guy who's going to be the OMB director,
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: who basically said, we want to make working in the
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: federal government as traumatic as possible for bureaucrats that we
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: want to get rid of. And clearly, that's what they've
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: been trying to do the last couple of weeks, is
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: to try to make it so miserable for people that
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: they just leave on their own.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: And I think it is just– the reason why we
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: should take this very seriously regardless of what their– the
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: specific powers they may have is this is the full
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: conservative project of decades now, which is to hollow out
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: the federal government so we can do less stuff. Then
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: on the things it continues to do, it does them
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: less well, which makes the public more dissatisfied with government,
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: which causes them to elect more anti-government politicians who then
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: hollow out the government some more, rinse, repeat. And the
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: end goal of this is not just, though, that the
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: government's doing less in health care and education, is what
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: these hardcore conservatives, who are not just Trump types, these
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: are Paul Ryan people, is they're going after Social Security
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: and Medicare. What they do not want is the federal
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: government to be giving people health care and retirement security.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: And those are sacrosanct programs. Trump voters love them. The
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: only way you ever get to be able to take
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: those down is to reduce people's faith in government to
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: such an extent that they're unwilling to trust it with
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: their healthcare and their retirement security. And so this is
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: what this project is.
• 55:27
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: Yep. And Social Security and Medicare probably come at the end.
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: That's the last thing. You make it so that everything
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: else is hated. They can do nothing else well that
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: people are willing to say, put my retirement in the
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: stock market, right? Or privatize my Medicare to insurance companies.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: And by the way, I think this is part of
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: the reason that they walked back the spending freeze, because
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: it caused the kind of uproar around the country that
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: they know is unpopular. And they want to cut government
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: and cut all those programs and benefits in a much sneakier,
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: quieter way than what happened with like an all out
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: spending freeze that freaked everybody out. So it is it's
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: something to watch. Speaking of way too much going on
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: at once, three of Trump's most extreme cabinet picks had
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: Senate confirmation hearings on Thursday alone. Health and Human Services
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: Secretary nominee, RFK Jr., in front of the Health Committee.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: DNI nominee, Tulsi Gabbard, in front of the Intelligence Committee.
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: And FBI nominee, Kash Patel, in front of the Judiciary Committee.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: Let's start with Kennedy. This was actually his second hearing.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: The Finance Committee got its turn on Wednesday. And both
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: days were contentious and fairly terrifying. Here's a sampling of
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: some of the Q & A for RFK Jr.
• 56:38
  Speaker 7: You equate pedophilia to the administration of vaccines?
• 56:44
  Speaker 5: No, it wasn't pedophilia.
• 56:46
  Speaker 7: It was a perfect metaphor.
• 56:48
  Speaker 5: Well, if you have one in 36 kids who has
• 56:50
  Speaker 5: neurological injuries, and if that is linked, that's something that
• 56:56
  Speaker 5: we should study.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: Is it a perfect metaphor?
• 56:59
  Speaker 5: It's not a perfect metaphor, but there's no metaphor that's perfect.
• 57:02
  Speaker 5: But I am pro-vaccine. Vaccines do not cause autism. Do
• 57:08
  Speaker 5: you agree with that? As I said, I'm not going
• 57:12
  Speaker 5: to go into HHS with any preordain. I ask you
• 57:15
  Speaker 5: a simple question, Bobby. Senator, I agree with President Trump
• 57:18
  Speaker 5: that every abortion is a tragedy, that we can't be
• 57:21
  Speaker 5: a moral authority in this country.
• 57:23
  Speaker 7: But that isn't what you said back in New Hampshire
• 57:25
  Speaker 7: in 2023.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: My question is exactly when did you decide to sell
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: out your life's work and values to get this position?
• 57:34
  Speaker 5: Senator, I agree with President Trump that every abortion is
• 57:37
  Speaker 5: a tragedy. Show me a single statement I've made about
• 57:41
  Speaker 5: science that is erroneous.
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: How much time do you have?
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: So basically these two days boil down to Democrats trying
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: to paint Kennedy as anti-vax and also unqualified, which he is.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: Kennedy's trying to say, no, not anti-vax. I never was.
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: I'm being misconstrued. Who do you think came out on top?
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: And are we getting a, we're getting a vaccines optional
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: HHS secretary?
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: That seems like, I mean, if we just got a
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: Fox weekend host as our secretary of defense and everything's
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: on the table here, I don't know. I don't know
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: what's going to happen here. I think there was one.
• 58:19
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: Democrats focus a lot on the vaccines. That is the most,
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: politically with the public. That is the part of him
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: that they are most skeptical of that they do not like.
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: But I thought some of the smartest questioning came from
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: Michael Bennett in the first day in the Finance Committee,
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: Michael Bennett, the Senator from Colorado. He did this the
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: right way. He did a lightning round, basically, with RFKG DeMarie,
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: asked him, he read him quotes, and he read them
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: in context and said, did you say this or did
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: you not say this? And it was some of the
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: things we've heard about vaccines, about various conspiracy theories. But
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: the last one he asked was, do you believe that, basically,
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: do you believe a pro-abortion excess comment of his? And
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: the reason why that was smart is that's how you
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: defeat RFK Jr., The only way to actually defeat him.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: There are ways to score political points with the public,
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: but to actually defeat him, you need to get a Republican.
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: You need to get four Republicans to vote against him.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: And one area of concern, and this is a weird
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: thing to say, Mike Pence's political organization is running ads
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: attacking or trying to get Republicans to oppose RFK Jr.
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: because he has been in favor of abortion access prior
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: to becoming Trump's buddy here. So that is a smart
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: way to do it. Was he getting it confirmed? Probably.
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: But I thought that at least showed a savvy way
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: to try to actually get some Republican votes or make
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: it more uncomfortable for Republicans to do it with their constituents,
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: which is going to matter more than making them uncomfortable
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: than just getting more Democrats who are already opposed and
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: riled up.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: Well, I thought some bad news on that front was
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: he basically said that he would look at the safety
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: of Mifepristone, the abortion pill. And so that's on the table.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: And then after the hearings, the Susan B. Anthony group,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: which is an anti-abortion group, said that they now favor
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: RFK Jr. because they think he's going to help them
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: pull Mifepristone off the market and ban the abortion pill.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: So that is pretty frightening.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's not good if he gets confirmed. I
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: was just trying to find a bright spot for Democrats
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: trying to keep him from getting confirmed.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: My only bright spot, we'll see what happens, is Bill Cassidy,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: the senator from Louisiana, Republican senator from Louisiana, who's a
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: doctor and who voted to impeach Trump, had some really
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: tough questioning about RFK Jr. 's anti-vaccine stances and positions
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: and what he said, and basically ended the hearing, leaving
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: it up in the air whether or not he was
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: going to vote for him.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's theoretically potentially the fourth, because we know
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: there's three possibles in Murkowski, Collins, and McConnell. Although not
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: that I have any evidence that particularly McConnell.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: Is going to do the right thing. Also, you could
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: see Cassidy be a no, but then maybe McConnell doesn't
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: vote no on this one. So it's tough to figure out.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: It's not like those are automatic no's at all. But
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: I guess Cassidy would be the hope there. We're not
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: going to subject you to separate sections on Tulsi Gabbard
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: and Kash Patel. Reminder here, if you need them, Gabbard
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: is an Assad and Putin sympathizer with no intelligence experience.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: And Patel is a Trump adoring hatchet man with no
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: FBI experience. Both hearings were pretty tense. Let's take a listen.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 6: Scabbard, a simple yes or no question. Do you still
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 6: think Edward Snowden is brave?
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: Mr.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: Vice Chairman, Edward Snowden broke the law.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 4: I do not agree with or support with all of
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 4: the information and intelligence that he released, nor the way
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 4: in which he did it.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: My understanding is that the performers on this J6 choir
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: were the rioters.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 6: Who were in prison.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 7: I'm not aware of that, sir.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: I didn't have anything to do with the recording. You
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: weren't aware of who made the recording?
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 4: No, Senator.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 6: Your boss has said that General Milley, who served us
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 6: with great distinction and I happen to have great admiration for,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 6: should be tried for treason.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 5: Do you agree with that?
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: Senator, everybody's entitled to their opinion.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 6: Who put away the Unabomber?
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: The FBI.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 6: Who put away Timothy McVeigh and his Stalin's stomach for blood?
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: Brick agents at the FBI.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 6: Who helped investigate Jesse Smollett. What?
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: How did he get in there?
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 6: Self-aggrandizement set back the fight for minority rights for years.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: I think that was local authorities.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 6: It was the FBI that opened an investigation, wasn't.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: It?
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: I had heard that. That was quite the turn that
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: I was not expecting.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: What was the point he was trying to make, even
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: up until that point?
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: I guess that the FBI is great.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: Man, sure.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: Sure, I don't know. So Kash Patel has just decided, like,
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: the old Kash Patel is just gone. He's gone. I
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: don't know what you're talking about. I don't know this guy.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: I didn't go on this podcast with all these white
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: nationalist racists with Nazi-sympathizing views. Didn't do any of that.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: Never heard of that person. Jan Six Choir, I don't
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: know what you're talking about. Also, he broke with Trump
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: on the January 6th pardons for the violent offenders, the
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: people who were there. He said, I just disagree with that.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: And he was very much like, no retribution, not going
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: to be looking backwards. So that's Kash Patel. I guess
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: he's getting through.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: It seems that way. I mean, all the reporting has been,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: he has really assuaged a lot of the very obvious
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: concerns about him with Republicans.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: Now, I think he is- some crazy shit on podcasts,
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: which I guess, I guess if, if we're ever confirmed,
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: we can say that too, huh?
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: Where there's not a chance that either of us are
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: ever seeking. Let me just play.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: Let me just play something you responded to from John Lovett.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: Oh no, not the Pundies 2018.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: No, let's be like, I don't know any of those people.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know what you're talking about. The San Francisco
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: live show.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 6: Fuck.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: Sounds like my voice, not my voice.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: People mix our voices up all the time. So I
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: just say that was Tommy.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so Kash Patel, FBI, great.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: Seems like that's happening. I mean, the fact that whenever
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: you're doing the list of people who are possible no votes,
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: Tom Tillis would be on that list because he is
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: a senator who has to run for re-election, has had
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: moments of sanity in his brief career, but he introduced
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: Kash Patel, so it seems like we're not going to
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: get him.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: And then I guess Tulsi Gabbard then is the one
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: who's in most jeopardy?
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: Because she wasn't mean enough to Edward Snowden?
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: Actually, John, you know what the most fucked up thing is?
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: The person in the most jeopardy may actually be his
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: nominee for Secretary of Labor because she once endorsed the
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: PRO Act.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, God.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: The person who picked Secretary of Labor.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's actually... not even like okay enough for Trump.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: Like she's actually a decent, like any Republican president who
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: nominated her, Democrats would be like, wow, that's pretty cool.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: On one specific issue, right?
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: She's pretty pro-labor as the next labor.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: So there are a lot of Democrats who didn't endorse
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: the pro-act.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: So she's in the most danger. It was, I'm not
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: entirely sure of the strategy of focusing most of our
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: ire on Tulsi Gabbard on the Edward Snowden traitor thing.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: I don't, I don't get that either. I don't get
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: that either. I mean, I understand why that makes- Plenty
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: of targets there for Tulsi Gabbard.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously, it's the Intel Committee. This is like
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: they're very closely aligned with the Intel community, who obviously
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: have very strong feelings about what Edward Snowden did to them.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: But just from a public perspective, or even trying to
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: peel off Republicans, it seems like- I'd be curious to
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: know what the reasoning was, because there were smart people
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: who were making that case, and I was surprised by it.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And those are all the most controversial picks. I
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: think Pam Bondi is also getting three, which is fucking great.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 4: She did.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: She made it through committee on party line vote. Wonderful.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: Wonderful. Well, we'll see.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: We'll see if we can take down the pro-labor labor secretary.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: One last thing before we go. So right before this recording,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: I interviewed Chris Murphy, Senator Chris Murphy from Connecticut for Offline,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: which will be out this Sunday. It's a great interview.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: He wanted to talk about big tech and regulation. He's
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: been talking a lot about social media and loneliness and
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: all the topics we love discussing on offline. But because
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: I had him for the interview, at the top, I
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: asked him all about these last two weeks and how
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: they were responding and how Democrats were responding. He's someone
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: who has not been afraid to be out there being
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: very forceful, sounding the alarm. And so I asked him
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: about all that. And I thought his answers were interesting
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: enough that wanted to play it here on Pod Save
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: America as a preview of Sunday's offline episode. So you'll
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: be hearing that right now. Do you think some of
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: the reticence about speaking up has to do with the
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: fact that some of your colleagues are just personally afraid?
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: Do you sense any fear among either your Democratic colleagues
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: or even the Republican colleagues?
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 7: Listen, that is not a conversation that we have out loud,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 7: but I don't know how what has happened in the
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 7: last week doesn't have an impact. I haven't shared this yet,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 7: but it is just true. My office has received phone
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 7: calls and threats that are different than anything we had
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 7: received prior to the pardoning of the January 6th protesters.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 7: We have had to have very different conversations internally about
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 7: how we protect me, my family, and my staff. I
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 7: assume other offices are getting those calls. I assume those
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 7: calls are reaching other Democratic activists who speak up online
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 7: all around the country. And whether or not that reaches
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 7: the level of consciousness, I don't know. But when your
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 7: family is threatened with harm, of course, it may at
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 7: the very least subconsciously depress your interest in fighting as
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 7: hard as you can. And, you know, given the fact
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 7: that Elon Musk... can sort of rouse those people with
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 7: one or two or three tweets, it probably also has
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 7: to do with why there hasn't been a concentrated effort
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 7: to take him on personally, because folks don't want to
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 7: end up, as I have been and many others, on
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 7: the receiving end of sort of his social media storms,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 7: because what comes with that is an implicit threat of violence.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: Those threats do not seem to have slowed you down.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: How are you personally sort of handling that?
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 7: Well, I just feel like I have a unique responsibility.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 7: I mean, I'm one of 47 Democratic senators. I'm going
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 7: to take some precautions to make sure that me and
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 7: my family and my staff are protected. But if I.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: Mute my voice, then all is lost.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 7: And yes, I don't completely understand why everybody isn't fighting
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 7: as hard as you. some of us have been. So
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 7: I feel like my role right now is to model
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 7: a kind of vigorous, organic, authentic anger at what is
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 7: happening to hopefully inspire others to join.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: Good for Chris Murphy, huh?
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: Chris Murphy's great.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: First of all, terrifying. um, that that's happening, that he's
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: getting those threats and that other people are, and that
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: then people are, are scared now of speaking out, but, um,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: I'm glad he's out there and, uh, and I'm glad
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: he's not backing down. So, all right, that is our
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: show for today. Everyone have a great weekend because, because
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: the news is so wonderful. Um, and we'll be, uh,
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: we'll be back in your feeds with a new show
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: on Tuesday.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 4: Bye everyone.
• 1:09:45
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