Latest / MBV President's Podcast / DON PETERANNA - Building a Farm at Melbourne Airport

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DON PETERANNA - Building a Farm at Melbourne Airport · MBV President's Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks to Exact the County for sponsoring this episode.
• 0:02
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• 0:05
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• 0:25
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• 0:29
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• 0:30
  SPEAKER_03: You can call Exact on 1300-233-723 or click on the link in the description below.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Founded in 1875, Master Builders Victoria has been supporting excellence in building and construction for generations.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: We represent professionals across Victoria and work together to shape a stronger future for our industry.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: In our President's Podcast series, we'll bring you the latest news and share the stories of the people who make our industry great.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the President's Podcast.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Steve Peluso, president of the Master Builders Victoria and a builder with over 30 years in the construction industry.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: This podcast is about real conversations with real people.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: No corporate spin, no scripted answers, and no.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: We talk to people across industry about what actually happens in construction, the wins, the mistakes, and the lessons.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: So let's get into it.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: Today, special episode.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: We're um privileged to have a, I think a bit of a lord blood, you were telling me before.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: But anyhow, we'll maybe get into that, possibly.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um says today I'm joined by Don Peterana, Senior Project Manager at the Total Construction working on the stacked farm project at Melbourne Airport.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: This facility has been built to grow, harvest, and pack fresh produce through an automated indoor farming system.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: For the construction team, the job brings together building work, specialist equipment and strict growing conditions and added challenges of working within an airport precedent.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: I want to hear how Don arrived here, what has tested the team, and what builders working on any size project would learn from the experience.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: Don, welcome.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: Or Lord Don.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Can we say Lord Don?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, maybe at the end of the interview, but we'll settle down to that.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so uh Don, where did construction start for you and how did you end up, you know, managing projects like this?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I started out um, so I've told by the accent from London.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: So um my family, they had a construction company back there, so it's kind of in the blood.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um started working out on sites uh, you know, as a kid, school holidays, and I also found the passion for construction, which was good.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh and it was kind of a natural path.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: My brother was is in the industry, my sister is as well, and of course the family.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, looked sort of kind of left school at 16 and kind of didn't really know what I wanted to do.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then you know construction brought me back, started working, but there was probably my dad was pushing me to go and get a job at that stage.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: But um, so draw me back to construction and uh ended up uh progressing education, went to university, uh came up with a construction management degree.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that kind of like as it's similar here, that kind of leap leaps you into um cadet ships and everything else.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: So worked with a local builder and this is back home.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: This is back home, yeah.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh worked with a local builder over there and um ended up uh you know getting uh a real taste for it on uh the University of East London.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then yeah, 40 million dollar, 40 million pounds even.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's how long ago was that?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oof, oof, now you're testing me now.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: So 40 million time ago.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: So 40 million pounds back then would be oh, close to double, maybe even not more.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Triple.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, easy.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so uh large scale projects in East London.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um not too far away from where I was brought up.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, kind of really gave me that kind of large construction experience or kind of taste of.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, all the stuff my father had done had been kind of Renault's in the city and some other bits and pieces in and around the kind of the home counties, but this was big stuff.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: This was big stuff, big team, big systems.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, it was good.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I suppose I found the love from there.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: And then and then you obviously from there to Australia?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, in a roundabout way.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I I came here 2003, came with my now wife, um, and we weren't really planning on staying.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: We just thought we'd do the backpacker thing and uh kind of mosey around and uh start working.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: Once you're here, it's a country that you can't like really.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Look, yeah, as I say, and look to that point, Melbourne, because we we did a stint in um Canberra, did a stint in Adelaide, and but we always came back to to Melbourne, and I think it was the atmosphere, the the people that we knew here, and um I love Melbourne, great spot.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was a fantastic spot.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Even with the game of the weekend, it was fantastic.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um so looking forward to the grand final coming up this weekend.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but yeah, so then landed here and we um started working with Teath and as I say, worked my way through, worked down in Port Melbourne with Teath and described him and the master builders in an interview about what I've done and haven't done.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: So we're gonna go to the stacked farm.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_03: Now, what are you building and how does a seed become a bag of produce?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_03: Now, you know, maybe explain what the actual stacked farm is, because a lot of people won't know what a stacked farm is.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: So essentially um vertical farm.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: So 10,000 square meter um shed um uh and all so can probably split 50-50, uh, six grow rooms, all containing um stainless steel racking, 15 metres high, so near enough to the roof to the roof.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: This is all uh encased in um Askin panel, so it's got its uh cool store.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thermal.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yeah.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: So to maintain that kind of uh environment for growing.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: So um Stat Farm are um looking to you know start growing produce there as soon as possible.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's a um you know from seed to to harvest, it's somewhere between 30 and 35 days.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: All automated.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we're actually starting the fit out element of that now.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean the automation side of stuff we're we're starting to look out with Stat Farm, which is fantastic.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: But but yeah, and they've got some agreements in place already with some um some uh um fast food chains and some other bits and pieces, and as I was saying before, the supply chain is looking pretty rosy for them.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean that's the future though, these stack farms.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, look, I think uh as I say, there's so many variables out there in the environment.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and look, it's um it's great to see innovation coming in and in you know, in parallel with the farmers that are out there supplying us at the also at the same time.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we're not taking away from the farmers, but we're adding to it and helping them.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, look absolutely, yeah.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Look, I think um uh the as I say, you know, stack farm will tell you themselves their um then their uh their produce is is part of the supply chain, not uh designed to take over it.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_03: No, that's right.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: So but why um when you when you chose Melbourne, now this stack farm it's one of two or something in Australia, is that right?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Or yeah, there's a smaller one up in in in Brisbane, um, in a place called a rundle, and it's more their kind of R D side of um so the one up there has one grow room and one uh finishing room, and that in itself is gonna obviously we've got six.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: So the uh the production that you'll get out of Melbourne will be um will be phenomenal.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Tons.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, tons billions of kilograms each year.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus, that's unbelievable.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: So why m why Melbourne Airport, that area, that precinct?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Look, that sort of stuff, uh you know, that's a probably a good question for Stack Farm, but I mean APAM as a as a landlord, because it's it's uh obviously they're building this, and then Stack Farm have got the agreement with them.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: They're a great client to work with.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: They're very um user-friendly, and they understand that building out by the airport really is an easy.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: And look, they come to the party, they've got some onerous environmental heritage, um, they've got some uh very, you know, from a safety point of view, it's off the chart.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: And look, I think they know that becoming the police of those factors doesn't actually help the build.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: So they they come to the party, they help us, and they're very um yeah, user-friendly and good, good set of guys, real good set of guys.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: Because whenever you work near there, there's a lot of restrictions with CASA and and uh and all the other uh uh authorities, obviously.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um but the communication link that you know you're working with cranes.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, tell us a bit a little bit about that.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: I mean that would have been an interesting challenge.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: It was, yeah.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Look, I think um the um where the site's located, there is a communication link between um Ethereum Airport and um and the airport itself at Telemarine.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's approximately 20 metres above the ground, and then it goes probably another six or seven metres above that.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's essentially if uh it's their kind of uh secondary uh communication, if in the event so it's a radio link or a microwave link, so they can keep the communication open.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it will be at a reduced amount.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know the actual deals there, but uh with the building at 90 metres, you can imagine anything there is going to be complicated.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we had to uh around that link, we uh we had to work with the subcontractors that we've got, um, steel, uh, short rig, and try and and stay underneath the link.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um stay under the ring.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, but as I say, we worked really well with the airport authority there and APAM and um Michelle, who you met on the on the walk, she was um she's been great with the permits and she's got a good rapport with the the airport there, and she's followed the line, she followed all the permits, all of the process, and I think they respect that.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um and to that uh end.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it was we we yeah, it was slow and it was a bit frustrating at the time because you have to educate guys that this thing that you can't see in the sky, you can't go into.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: And but technology now means that we can we can monitor where the the jib is and and how the install is going.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: And as I say, slow, a bit frustrating, but um challenge that we welcomed and got on with it.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: So uh did you fall back on a little bit of AI to help with with all that type of No, not not really.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was more look, I think it's I mean you look, you communication was the big one here, right?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: So we set up some basic sort of kind of uh demarking of where the link was, then you educated the contractors, and then we when we let the packages we made sure that they were aware of it, so they are obligations to go in there.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Most of the cranes will t will tell you that what height their jib's at, and uh they can just got to keep below that.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but as I say, it was difficult.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: And look, I think if um we you know we had our time again, we'd probably make some changes to how the building was built in terms of the fabric of it.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: But um that said, um the airport's still running.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: There hasn't been a catastrophe, so we're all good.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: But it was on people's minds, you know, as you see a jumbo jet coming in to land uh at one of the runways, that making sure that you know we uh but as I say, we had a great relationship with the airport there.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_03: So Yeah, you would have had to, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um so if if a a builder, let's say that I walked up on site, what will I what's the first thing that's gonna really stand out to me?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um when you say from a builder's point of view.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh now or during construction or no, probably now.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: So um What's the real standout, that one thing that you think, well Well if it if anything goes to answer that question, um, because you get a bit, I suppose, complacent when you're seeing it all the time, but everyone that goes in there is wow, it's huge.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Alright.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: And you go into some of these 15-meter ceilings, um, in the cold store and in the grow rooms, um, the perspective, you know, the or the the dimensions of it, you know, and you go into these large storage rooms, a lot of people will see that, and then you take them in for a walk and you go further in and you go into where the grow rooms are, and of course, then likewise you've got the racking full height, uh, all stainless steel running the full length of the the the facility.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, there's a bit of wow factor there.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's the the site, the scale of it's is huge.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think what you'll find is, and we should we need to get you guys out there when it's operational.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure Stacked will be happy to welcome you and uh to show it off.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, but when it's on full operation, it's gonna be very impressive.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it'll be interesting.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_03: So um now um you've spoken a little bit about um managing power and heat and um so tell us a little bit about that and how you know how how do they do it?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: So look the grow rooms are kind of um are conditioned to to maintain a sort kind of um temperature of somewhere between 18 and 25.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: The rest of the facilities can use your stock standard sort of cold store areas before you go into the loading bay.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: So rapid rollers, uh, we use an insulated panel system there that's uh designed like any other fridge panel.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Maintain that heat inside.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: So um look the mechanical company, and when you come down, you'll see at one end of the grow room, all the mechanical plant is mounted there that's constantly blowing uh conditioned air into these and then extracting it, uh, making sure that they keep that environment perfect uh to grow the earth.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, okay.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and how did you plan to bring that large equipment?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um so there's obviously a lot of big you know, condensers and and a lot of machinery mechanical and so forth.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: So, how do you get that there?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was a bit hectic at times, um, but we staged it.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: So um as the construction was progressing, that the facade, I mean, you've got um large lifting frames at either end that are solid units that have come, they've been manufactured off-site and have been brought in.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um there was some original thinking about lifting them up vertically and then modulising the racking.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: There was lots of scratching of heads and lots of workshopping and everything else.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: And look, it it it got there, but we we devised a system where you we could um part split the facade to bring the lifting frame in um horizontally.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then we had frannas inside with slabs that had been strengthened to be able to lift it into position.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um the the uh mechanical items, they're all on a mezzanine at one of the ends.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, look, it's a it's a large lift to do at the at the the grass rooms, but you know, the cons uh the the subcontractor they were using very very efficient and very user-friendly.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, so so you touched on the subcontractors.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_03: So with the subcontractors, obviously when you tender in and out, what specifics did you look for in your supplies and and you know you what was your procurement uh process to make sure that they understood uh you know this stacking, this environmental um system and and look, Tottenham themselves have got uh they're a you know silent achiever.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: They're they've they've they've got you know Steve Taylor himself is you know he's very passionate about what he does and um he he was uh you know at the forefront of all of the um development of Stat Farm.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: So he he's got some great experience, likewise Guy Finis, likewise Lou.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so when we sat down and we we scoped up the works, we made sure that certainly all the airport requirements were put into the into the documentation, but uh like anything else, you sit down with the guys, and I'm a great one for talking if you haven't already gathered, but you sit down and you just work through a communication.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, you get some your markups, you explain what it is, and I mean I'd be lying if I said that numbers weren't involved in in the decision making.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: But as I say, we've got a lot of um uh subcontractor partners that are working at Stat Farm that we've used over countless jobs, and I think they trust us and we trust them.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: So because total it was obviously a DC Yeah, yeah, so uh you're involved very early in the design stage.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I mean the early decisions that you've had to make, um, which was you would have seen the biggest difference.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: What was the biggest difference with the early involvement that you guys had, where if you didn't have it, you know, what stood out to sort of say, well, if we weren't involved here, this could have happened and could have blown out.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I think when you look at the UCI phase, and you're gonna, you know, you're gonna look at this job as there's nothing else in Australia like it.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's you know, you you can't just ring up the the friendly consultant and say, knock be gonna knock one of these up for me pretty quick.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you're dealing with um uh you know a client that's got a passion and got a dream almost about what they'd like to produce, they've got some fundamentals and some proven um data that says that if you do this on this scale it's gonna work.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: But um on that scale, there's always gonna be so.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think although we probably added 15 to 20 percent of the contract value with design changes and um uh uh extra elements that Stap Farm required, the front-end ECI process that Tartle did with the airport certainly uh identified uh the requirements that the airport has to the building because they've got some um pretty onerous fire requirements and obviously where it where it's located.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but at the same time you've got to try and gel that into the end user, which is Stap Farms requirements.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that produced this almost base design documentation that us as a delivery team took.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, our design manager Paul and another guy called Owen.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they've they've been great the whole way through, you know, you know, with patience with the client and working through it.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's nice to see um the relationship, you know, with essentially strangers when they come into an environment and they start looking at the project and they start handing over more and more StackFarm and enabling us and taking some of the advice that we've got, um, and they've listened to us and look, and here we are, we've got PC and handed over and moving into, as I say, in the fit out phase for for the client.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: And the the big work now starts for Stack Farm, because this is where all their automated uh systems and all their everything that's on paper, everything that's been ordered overseas, um, conveyors, racking, all the rest of it, it's all turning up now.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's all going together.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so hopefully it continues.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_03: So because I mean something like this type of project, you'd have to do two or three peer reviews, you know, and you'd have to test a lot of things before it sort of because it you can't if something stuff's up, you've got to really pivot on the spot really quickly.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um so maybe tell us if you can, if there was something that really stood out that you thought shit, you know, and we've had to pivot and then get that right.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, um you've got me now.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um and it might be just, you know, something that because that environment that you're in and the project and where it is, you've got huge restraints with everything.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: And if you know, and because you obviously dependent on weather too.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, look, yeah, I mean the winds are especially in the airport.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, it's on a windy day.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know all about it.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know about it.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's a it's a pretty open site, at least when we took it.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Look, I think going back to uh bringing their equipment in was definitely something that um was something that we yeah, because how it was initially uh um I suppose viewed that how we'd get it in didn't actually work because of the how the building was constructed.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: So you can't leave a full facade of a building off, especially in that environment uh with a suspended ceiling inside.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: So um I think we you know worked on our feet and and and and looked at sort of some of the options.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And as I say, Stack Farm have got their you know their um you know, they've got their constraint, requirements, yeah.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's it's manufactured off-site, it's already made, it's sitting there, it's a big piece of stainless steel that needs to go through a big hole, it needs to get in because if it doesn't get in, it doesn't work.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, so look, uh I think um that there was other elements that we and I think if you come away from the kind of construction side of stuff when it comes to design, the requirements for uh from a building control point of view of some of this stuff, because it's not really something that a building surveyor can kind of say, Oh, look, you know, we can do X, Y, and Z, we can do a sprinkler.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Some of it was crossing certain design requirements.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I looked through some consultation that we had with some of the buildings and the ABC, which is the building authority out at um at the airport, we kind of we looked at the different people think that that's absolutely local, it's not.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: And look, they're um they're not covered.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: By BBA, so they're their ABC is B B C now.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: So they're not covered by it's still Philip Chan, they still know their stuff, but yeah, it's a slightly different dynamic.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you've got to have a different mindset.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_03: So because of the technology, I mean, how often did anything change from technology?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that that you might have had a certain design and then suddenly, you know, your clients come to you and said, Oh no, well, this has changed now.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: All the time.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: All the time.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_03: All the time.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you control that with budget?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um You uh I think it's difficult because depending on where look, if you can get to certain things before one there's an element of Staff Farm that they may or may not go ahead with that meant that a lot of the drainage had to change, and a lot of the treatment of the any wastewater from certain elements of the job again could change.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: And we were, you know, up to our knees in trenches, putting pipes into the ground where this change came through.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: And um we had to think on our feet, change some stuff, then incorporation into the structure of um supports to to because their their requirement from a conditioning had changed.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, they're um as I say, it's a it's a start.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's a start that um you can react and um be frustrated by it, but you've just got to take a deep breath and carry on.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: Because I mean, uh this is what really interests me because it's a sort of a one-off.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: I call it a one-off project.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um hopefully you get to do plenty more.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: Well, hopefully.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but how do you get the designers, the trades, the technology specialists all working together without disagreeing?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's that's it's not like a normal build.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's not.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Look, and we take some of that normal build logic and um process to do with coordination, everything else, and look uh from a BIM point of view, from a 3D modeling and everything else, within the subcontractors together, we get that, but there's certain elements of the end user that um we're not privy to seeing at the moment because of course there's some IP there as well.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but again, it's communication and that kind of trusted partner, subcontractor.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: And look, I think when you bring a lot of great minds together, great things happen.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, true.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_03: You yeah, it's the people around you, isn't it?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yeah.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Look, and I say um a lot of people have enjoyed working there, as you as you commented earlier on.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's a good team out there, good vibe.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_03: So, and was there you know, that obviously the people would and because of that you had sorry, that you had the great team.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: So, with a great team, you would expect people to if there's a problem, they'll spot it straight away.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: And and instead of, you know, in some of the other historical trades and suppliers, they they don't say nothing.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: Let the next person worry about it.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Look, look, look, look, look, I think we have uh every morning we have a catch-up with all the foreman, talk about various things on the job.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Look, at one stage, 120 blokes, you know, it's a quite a tight area, every single zone of that warehouse was being worked on.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: So you had to be quite strict in terms of boundaries of where people could go and couldn't go because of course crossing jibs and uh people's uh safe working space and everything else.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but at the same time, I think that kind of uh opened up conversations between contractors in this kind of informal kind of sub-e meetings.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: And do you know you do sub-y meeting maybe once a week, you know, and everyone's quite quiet, just want to get out of there, you know, does done dumb.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas in kind of it was semi-informal, it was in a kind of lunch area area, we had uh the TV up on the wall, it kind of opened up a lot of conversations, and I think we've got an open plan office out there at uh at Stacked, and uh so rather than segregate out your contract administrators and commercial managers, we're all in one spot.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: So there was a little bit of cross-pollination between subbies and where variations were going and conversations like that.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: So look, you know, you know, can you recreate that?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I can, but look, it was a pretty unique job, I think, given that there was a little bit of you had to come together uh uh uh because of the changing environment.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so there were some challenges out there, especially as I say, around the airport and the consumer.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: So the communication is number one.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's what it's worked out to.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, look, and I don't think there's any um super intelligence or you know, uh out there in terms of coming up with that.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think, but you know, as I say, it worked out pretty well.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: No complaints, no complaints.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna say that uh, you know, the working from home, there's no way you'd be able to do that in in a project like this, especially when people have got a B there a hundred percent, because you need the eyeball, yeah.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Look, for sure, look, as I mentioned before, uh Gary, uh Troy and Tom that were all out on there, all worked really well.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um good good guys, and uh look, as I say, you you can't you I mean, uh you know, we all come, no one really lives out that direction, so we're all traveling in.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, but yeah, so you try and make it a a a really good um enjoyable environment to work in.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, uh you can't.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can some of the contract administrators might be able to work from home.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I think even Michael Quinn, who's uh the senior CA out there, he would regularly say how much he enjoyed working out there, how fantastic it was.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: So, Don, we have um rapid fire questions.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so uh what so quick answer.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um and get ready this one.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: Biggest mistake you've made.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh worrying about um having an opinion and getting things wrong.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: And sitting in meetings and and and and not saying something and then regreting it afterwards and just, well, you know, I should have said something, I should have said something now.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: As you can tell, I don't hold back.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Worse side experience.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh look, I think we've all been in those environments where we're tortured by um other people's opinions, especially from a you know a senior management point of view.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: And but um you know, some of my best friends in the industry have come from that kind of adversary where you uh you've had to club together to to keep yourself sane.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: One thing the building industry gets wrong.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Look, I think there's there's a little bit of a race to the bottom when it comes to tendering, and that comes from a client point of view and from an even from a contractor point of view when you're looking at subies.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean there's a rift profile there attached to everything, and even from a subies point of view.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: So uh hopefully um, you know, as I say, if you can get those kind of relationships going, I think they're key to to try and change that.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: So and and then the other one was one thing that the industry gets right.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh certainly in Australia, and I've probably got most of my experience in Melbourne, but how uh they treat the the the trades and the consultants, it's not seen so much blue collar here.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's seen you know it's a well res respected, you know, in the construction industry, it's not seen as a lot of respect that we have.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: Great answer.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: What frustrates you most right now?
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, interesting.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh not a lot, as I say.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um total are a great place to work.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um but um I think uh that kind of probably rush on design, which we didn't do at stacked, but and where you you know drawings and then it's it's just like a domino effect for problems.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you're just working yourself back.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_03: Most underrated trade.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I've got to be careful here.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um just think of the finishing off trade stacked.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: But dad's a plumber, so I'll stay away from that.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um did you say underrated?
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: Underrated.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um carpentry.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh carpentry and bricklayers.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a lost trade.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: And uh some of the work when you look across even places like Melbourne and you see how perfect some of the brickwork is.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's not it's not easy.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of it was done by uh Londoners.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, yeah, of course, yeah.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Not so much lords though.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: First thing you look for when you walk on to a site.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh look, I think two things.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's symmetry and there's safety.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: So you get a feel if a site isn't being well run, you know, the condition, but then you also get a if you walk into rooms and you can see ceilings running out.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's just something that you develop that you can see things aren't square or aren't lined up or aren't in symmetry.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a it's a handy tool to have.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: What would you say your site team would say is your most annoying habit?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: Everything, I'd say.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Questions.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: What's happening here?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um look, yeah, I'd say.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, probably you know, I tend to sort of kind of I'm probably a little bit busy sometimes when it comes to asking questions and what's happening here and what's happening there, but you know, they appreciate it in a strange way.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: The phrase you never want to hear on a in a site meeting.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's it.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: I've had enough, I'm off.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_03: After building this farm, are you are you gonna grow your own vegetables and leave it growing together?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, we already do.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I don't think on the scale of Stack Farm, but yeah, we've got um we've got a bit going on at home, so it's not in a commercial, I won't be supplying any of the nice food chains anytime soon.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so you know, when when this farm is obviously producing um the food and you look back at the build, um, what do you hope that your team will be proud, the most proudest of?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um look, I think we've had, and we haven't spoken about it today, but we've had some big challenges with um some of the construction methodology and some of the processes and some of the design changes and everything else.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: And we've had some moments there where I know the team have have have have been um pushed.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think they'll look back, we finished ahead of time, but we um we uh we smashed the program, which was great.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think uh I think Stack Farm When, like most clients, they get in there, they'll start appreciating the fabric of the building and the attention that we gave it during the construction.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um look, we're uh we did a a s you know our surveys that we've done from an as built point of view, you know, are pretty good.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I think um they'll you know they don't have a lot of experience with other builders, but I think our team will you know they'll be proud that they were part of something that maybe is going to become more commonplace.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_03: Final question.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_03: In 20 years' time, what do you want Don to be Lord Don to be reminded of?
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: Oh dear.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um What do you want to be a PM, a young PM looking out?
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um That kind of team harmony, I think.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds a bit corny, but um I like it when teams run autonomously.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just one person commands, it's everyone has their bit and we're all doing it at the same time.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: So hopefully it's uh it's a model moving forward.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's a few things that are brought into to total, so hopefully I'll be called, have the maybe even have Stack Farm named after me, you know.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay, that'll be a good one.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: Donald's Farm.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_03: Well the surname's partial Italian, so I'm happy with that.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go to that.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_03: Uh look, Don, thanks for joining me and uh sharing um you know the work behind this this major project that you you've been involved with.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, it's great that at least and a lot of our members that don't see this type of project ever.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um and you know, it's part of the future that that you're building out there.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_03: So I really want to thank you for the for sharing that with us.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um and you know, as I said, thank you for for coming along and um I'm I'm grateful and honoured into a Lord.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: In presence of the uh a Lord, that's it um the background.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um but uh I mean all jokes aside, thank you so much.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's been absolute pleasure.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: And uh thank you, no problems.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for joining us.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: If you've enjoyed today's conversation, please hit subscribe, share it with someone in the industry, and help us continue having real conversations about the future of construction.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: Until next time, stay safe, keep building, and remember that buildings we create are important, but the people behind them matter even more.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: Speak soon.