Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / Guns N' Roses Turns 40 [Episode 297]

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Guns N' Roses Turns 40 [Episode 297] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Guns N' Roses. Where do you rank them among the
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: greatest rock bands of all time? Would you rank them
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: higher if they never broke up? Author Martin Popoff has
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: his opinion. As we celebrate the fortieth anniversary of Guns
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: and Roses.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Next we're totally bum rock and roll. I mean, I'll
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: leave you you're reading Little Hands since it's time to rock
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: and roll rock band roll out.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I totally booked. Hey guys, welcome back to book don Rock.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: It's great to have this guest back on again. It
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: is Martin Popoff. He is the author of the brand
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: new book Guns and Roses at forty Martin. Always great
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: to have you back on.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me. Very cool.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: So tell us about this book celebrating forty years of
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: G and R.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So the nice thing about this kind of book.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: And I've done a.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Few of these four Motor books. We've done Kiss at fifty,
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: ACDC at fifty, Bowie at seventy five, and this is
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Guns N' Roses at forty, so a little bit of
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: a newer band. But it's nice having these books with
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Motor books. Again, this concept is not mine, I believe,
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: possibly even Dennis Pernume my very capable editor over there
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: came up with this. But the nice thing about these
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: books is they aren't meant to be interview intensive. They're
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: not meant to be actual band biographies or anything like that.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: So the concept is forty career highlights of the band,
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: and there's lots of highlights with this band because they've
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: been through so much, presented in a chronological order. A
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: lot of people are saying I'm getting deep guns and Roses,
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Fans saying they love the pictures, they love the layout
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: that they're seeing a lot of rare pictures that they
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: don't normally see. So yeah, the cool thing is this
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: concept and even the album by album concept I do
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: with these guys, like we've done the Judas Priest recently,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Pink Floyd, Queen ACDC, and even like I say, the
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Bowie at seventy five, I've never interviewed David Bowie. The
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: nice thing is that I get to write these books
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: on these bands where they aren't straight biography, so I
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: don't need a lot of interview footage. Having said that,
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: in here, there are a few special sections where I've
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: got some footage from my chats with Duff and Slash
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: and a few other people, I think, who else have
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: I talked to? Tom Zutat and a few management people
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: around the sides, maybe some producers engineers can't quite remember,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: but there are those side little sections. Dennis always likes
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: to have a few things like that in here as sidebars.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's broken into five acts. I've named every
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: one of these career highlights after song titles, which is
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: always fun to do. That's something I did come up
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: with early on. But yeah, hardcover throughout and really really
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: nice layout that these guys always do. And I'm getting
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: a lot of compliments on that as well. I mean
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: they're true, they're true coffee table books.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Always laid out beautifully. Yeah, coffee table book exactly. GNR
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  Speaker 1: started off the short lived dirty hair metal era, and
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: I think about Tesla too. They're in that ballpark there.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: I think they came out with an album a year before.
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  Speaker 2: When this album came out, I was into all things metal,
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  Speaker 2: so every single kind of metal, all my legacy bands
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: and hair metal and thrash. I was into that. I
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: was also in a lot of college rocket this time
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: as well. I was into Your Replacements and Ram and
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Smith's and you two and minute Man fire Hose, Jane's
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: addictions coming up and all that. But right in this scene,
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: you know, appetite for destruction comes out. I mean, it's
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: a term I've coined over the years. Dirty hair metal
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: or bluesy hair metal, sleezy hair metal, guns n' roses
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  Speaker 2: comes out. And I always just I thought of this
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  Speaker 2: album as just a higher quality one of the top
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: quartile hair metal albums, but I definitely consider it as
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  Speaker 2: part of the part of the scene I think they
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: still have. They do have like a hair metal look
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: to them. It's borrowing more on feisty raw pushing and
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: pulling with Steven Adler's you know, drumming time and stuff.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: It's building upon the best elements of aerosmith that we
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: all love kind of thing. And sure Tesla's kind of
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  Speaker 2: part of this. But what happens is this album eventually
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  Speaker 2: starts blowing up so big it does tilt the hair
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  Speaker 2: metal shift a little bit. There's still gonna be very
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: glammy hair metal, the likes of your Kick Tracy and
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Slaughter and Warrant and Wanger and Firehouse remember those guys,
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: Sure Trickster, did I say tricks? Anyways, there's there's there's
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  Speaker 2: some very bright and glammy and multi tracked vocals and
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: wet drum sounds hair metal. But what Guns n' Roses
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  Speaker 2: does is they do cause this folkroum shift. We get
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: your your faster pussy Cats and your lay Guns, which
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: has a you know, mixed in with the history of
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: these guys. But we do get Skid Rose a little
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: on the dirty hair metal side. On the bluesy hair
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: metal side, Poison tries the blues album Cinderella gets even
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: more bluesier. We get the Great bad Lands on the dirty,
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: sleazy hair metal side. We get Love Hate, who I
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: absolutely adore. I think they're one of my favorite bands
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: of this whole scene.
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  Speaker 3: So Guns and Roses does cause a shift, but it's
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: not like they cause or they inspire the idea of
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: grunge or anything that there's still a hair metal band,
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  Speaker 3: but it is more real, more authentic, more rock and roll,
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  Speaker 3: and it's taken a little bit away from that overt
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  Speaker 3: commercialism that you see with the other hair metal bands.
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  Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, like I say, it causes some great
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: stuff like that. You know, Tesla starts in eighty six,
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  Speaker 2: they start a little bit before this, but they have
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: a lot of heart and soul as well. They're not
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: from the Strip, They're from northern California, right, and they
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: make some great albums Psychotic Supper, Busta Nott. I love
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: those records, so they're a little bit in this range
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  Speaker 2: as well, but they also sound very corporate and clean
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: and well recorded and ambitious. It's lacking the danger that
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: you get in the Guns N' Roses albums. So there's
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: a reason this album was huge, and there's a reason,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: you know, the two massive follow ups, which are both
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: like seventy five minutes long or whatever, gives you a
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  Speaker 2: lot of music, you know, right up into nineteen ninety one,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: right same day that Nirvana's Nevermind comes out, right, but
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: there's still those two records I think double down and
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: underscore what they were getting at it. On Appetite, I
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: think they're very similar to Appetite. A lot of people
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: put them down and think they're not as good as Appetite,
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: but I think, you know, given how much music is
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: on there, you know, it's always nice to play that game,
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  Speaker 2: Like if I could pick my favorite fifty five minutes
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: of music, because Appetite is a long album, right, if
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: I could pick my favorite fifty five minutes of music.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: Off of that, I'd probably like it more than Appetite.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: I think those albums are also really, really good.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about that if you
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: would pare down both the usually losing one and two
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: and make it one album, and I'll ask about that
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: a little bit. You did interview the guys in the band,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: except for Axel. Mysterious guy. Kind of worked for him
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: for a while there, but then all of a sudden
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: the tides turn. It's working against him, particularly after the
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Guns and Roses original era comes to an end. Right.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Axel's a funny situation in here there. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: there's so much personality in this band, but Axel also
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: being the lead singer, having that very uncommon screechy strain
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: voice that nobody else has, being a great singer with
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: it as well. I always consider that two separate things.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: You've got your voice and you've got your singing ability, right,
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: and he's got both. He's got a super interesting voice
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  Speaker 2: and he's a super interesting singer. But yeah, he's a
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  Speaker 2: mysterious figure. I think it works against him a little
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: bit early on. He's a little eccentric, doesn't seem you know,
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  Speaker 2: there's riots that get caused, he doesn't come on on time,
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: he throws tantrums, all that sort of stuff. I think
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: it works a little bit against him and for him,
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  Speaker 2: you know, at that exact same time where where people
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: like the danger and the rock and rollness and like
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: like seeing this guy who seems to be willing to
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: throw away his career at any turn right on a dime.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Almost punk rock, like, yeah, very punk rock. And we
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: know there's a punk you know, a punk element in
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  Speaker 2: the band through Izzy, but especially Duff. But as time
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: goes on, I think what we start to appreciate more
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  Speaker 2: from Axel is he slowly starts building back up that
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: goodwill through his very capable helmsmanship of that very tough
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: ACDC lead singer role on that tour where he seemed
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  Speaker 2: very humble and respectful of the job getting the job done,
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: and then through the very creative experience of the whole
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Chinese Democracy album and touring cycles before and after, where
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  Speaker 2: we learned that he is so creative and so respectful
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  Speaker 2: of the muse that he will work with a lot
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  Speaker 2: of people, He'll make a lot of music, doesn't seem
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  Speaker 2: to really care if it comes out and then afterwards
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  Speaker 2: putting together the more capable pack of lunch and go
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  Speaker 2: to work every day version of the band that has
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: been very professional sort of ever since sort of things. So, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: he's had this up and down goodwill, bad will, bad
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  Speaker 2: vibes sort of situation, you know, unlike Motley Crue, who
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: just seemed to have their vibes keep going down and
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: down and down all the time, to the point where
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: now people get cranky when they talk about Motley Crue
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: because there's never been rehabilitation of their image. Their image
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  Speaker 2: just slowly declined over the years and just has gotten
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: worse and worse and worse, and there's never been any
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  Speaker 2: bright spots where anybody said, oh, I guess I kind
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: of like these guys a little more now for some reason,
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: it's just always always negative things happening with that band,
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: where guns n' roses seemed to have matured over the years,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: and each of those guys, to a man, turned himself
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: around in various ways, you know, even Izzy, which is
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: a funny one where you know, one thing. Putting together
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: this book, I thought it was really interesting how many
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: times Izzy would guess with the guys. But we love
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: the idea of Izzy even more over the years because
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: of how prolific he's been and how he's just had
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: no problem with is being an underground artist his whole
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: life right, which is really kind of a cool thing
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: about him. So Yeah, over the years, I think we've
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: seen I would say, through all five of those original guys,
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: and even Matt Sorum along the way. I think their
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: reputes have improved over the years to the point where
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: everybody kind of likes Guns and Roses. Now.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: A lot of people don't know about this Rapid Fire.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: This was Axl's first band, comes right off the bus
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: from Indiana to Hollywood and he's in this band, Rapid Fire,
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: just for a brief period. But then Guns and Roses
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: forms and I always forget too. Slash Steven Eiler not
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: part of the original lineup.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they all had their own stuff going on. There's
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: road Crew, like you say, there's La Guns, there's what
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: are we gonna call this, Tracy guns in, Tracy Guns out,
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff. So they're just working out
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: the parts, putting this together. It does come together kind
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: of slap dash, but I think underlying all the decadence
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: that you see in the band I think you do
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: see ambition and you see a real love of music.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: These guys all know a lot about the history of
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: rock and roll and punk and obscure stuff and famous stuff,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: and I think there is a higher calling throughout all
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: of that. There is a higher calling of just wanting
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: to be enthusiastic participators in the long history of rock
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: and roll.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Duff talked about his background, which I didn't know about.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: He'd been in bands for ten years before that. He
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: was a man called Nico teen who was a band
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: called Veins. But the other story about Slash auditioning for Poison,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: which somebody had said recently, I said, boy, that isn't
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: that crazy, And they said, well, not really. When you
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: think of the small world that the Sunset Strip and
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: all those bands, they all knew each other, so everybody
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: was in one band or another at one point.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, these guys are trying out for different situations.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: You know, Poison Poison obviously didn't look every day like
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: they do on the front cover of the debut album.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: You know, they're a rough rock and rolling band, and
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: that album's pretty pretty heavy and rocking. You know, they're
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: and they even and like I say, they even became
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: one of these bands that got as bluesy as guns
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: and roses.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Whatever your native tongue you're talking about, right, is that
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: the one? Yeah, that's a great album with stand that's
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: blue Saracino I think on guitar.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And they also had It's funny they bridged both
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: worlds because they also had a real glammy aspect to
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: them as well. And I'm not just talking about the look,
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: but I mean even in the songs they had, they
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: had kind of like a simple kiss like quality that
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: they threw into a lot of stuff. You think of
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: Ricky with a small drum set and stuff, and we
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: know Steven Adler never had a massive drum set either,
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: but that was more of like a rock and roll
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: kind of a standard Joey Kramer sort of rock vibe
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: out of him. So yeah, these guys definitely they're they're
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: coming from that world. Duff Duff was an absolute punk rocker,
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: total musicologist, knew knew what he was doing, and then
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: he went on in life. Also, I think one of
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: the cool things we love about Duff is that he
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: will just throw himself into any kind of cool project
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: if he thinks it's fun. He doesn't care how big
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: or how much exposure he gets out of it. He's
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: not chasing fame with these things. He's chasing the music
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: he wants to. He wants to make a bunch of
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: cool music. And I think that's a great thing about him.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: And we also have to think about Slash. You know,
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: I just recently did a funny We've We've got our
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Contrarians YouTube channel, and I did a I did a
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: top ten call, well, the top ten answers for how
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: many Guns and Roses albums there are, right, because it's
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: such a complicated, weird outlaw catalog, right. But one of
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: the points I wanted to make there as well is
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: that outside of Axel and outside of Steven, everybody made
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: a lot of music. And Slash also made a lot
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: of music. He made the Slash album, he made the
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: two Slashes snake Pit albums, He made all those albums
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: with Slash featuring Miles Kennedy, Right, Velvet Revolver, Right, Slashing
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: and Duff together. So I think in a certain respect,
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: given the proximity of the types of music these guys
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: made every time they are away from the band, I mean,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: you could say there's essentially thirty ish Guns and Roses
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: albums out there, because it's not like these guys were lazy.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: It's just that they didn't say Guns and Roses on
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: the tin. But they love music and they prove that
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: they're in it for the right reason by going out
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: and hey, if we're not getting along with Axel, if
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Axel doesn't want us in under the brand name, doesn't
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: mean we're going to stop making music. So that's another
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: cool thing about them, and I think it contributes to
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: the goodwill that's built up around this band, you know,
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: slowly the rehabilitation of the band over the years.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: What's interesting about Guns of Roses is, yeah, they went
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: a pretty hair band, glam band, but they also understood
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: there was a need for an image because it's in
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: the book where they talk about they knew the hat,
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: the top hat slash. You know, Axel had a certain
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: look about them, so they were smart enough to know,
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: which is what I think what sets them apart from
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: a band like Tesla, like you could name if you asked,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: we know the members of the band of Tesla because
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: we're hardcore fans. You asked the average music fan name
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: a member of Guns of Roses. Oh, Slash Axel if
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: you ask them about Tesla no So. I think there's
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: the identifiable characters in the band, and they were very
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: much aware of that early on.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I say they were aware of that. It's an
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: interesting question because you might say that because there's so
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: much kind of authenticity about this band, and and that's
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: what people love about them, and that's why it's one
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: of the biggest selling albums of all time, as you know,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, the follow ups sold a lot too. I
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: think there is an image, but they arrive at it organically,
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: and it's not like they are absolutely studying the hell
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: out of it to get it perfect right, but just enough,
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: just enough. Yeah, it's just like artistic they're thinking about
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: it just enough. Because Axol, if you think about it
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: over the years, he doesn't really kind of stick with
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: one fashion sense or hairstyle or anything like that, or
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: nor does Duff particularly. So I think what you get
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: out of this band, you know, having personality in all
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: sort of five corners of the band. I think they
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: understand image, but it came to them naturally, just like
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: being authentic rock and Rollers came to them naturally.
• 15:49
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• 15:52
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• 16:01
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• 16:04
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• 16:15
  Speaker 1: plus all the social media platforms were on Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: and x. Also check out the Booked on rockblog. Find
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: your local independent bookstore, find out all the latest hot
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: rockbook releases, and before you go, check out the Booked
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: on Rock online store. Pick up some Booked on Rock merch.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: It's all at booked on Rock dot com. Martin Popoff
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: the author of the new book Guns N' Roses at forty,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: which is out now. This chapter on the Appetite for
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Destruction demo is very interesting. He was produced by Nazareth
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: guitarist Manny Charlton. November Rain was recorded at that time
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: not included on an Appetite. Charlton loved it, but Axel
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: didn't want it on the album. Why do you think
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: that was?
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Axel has a clear idea of what he wants. SEMs
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: to understand the big picture. He seems to understand sequencing,
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: and yeah, it's you remind me. You know, there was
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: there was a flirtation with maybe having Paul Stanley produce it.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Manny comes in and does this. They end up with
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: Mike Clink, which I think turned out to be brilliant,
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: But you know, parsing, who knows what would have happened otherwise.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: But I think I think what happened with Mike Clink
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: here and and this particular set of songs is they
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: happen to subtly. Subtly, I mean, they catch lightning in
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: a bottle. But if you if you try to like
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: articulate what the production values of that record are, they're
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: fairly conservative, but they're also raw, and they've just got
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: this aggression and bite to them. There's just some some
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: sort of unnameable magic to the production of this record.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: But you'd never say it's an eccentric or weird production
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: or or unorthodox production. It just sounds vital. It's got
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: kind of like this. It's deely hard edge, but you
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: still have enough bottom end, and you still have enough brightness.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: And I think I think one of the special things
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: about the record that makes it so magical and you
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: actually get it again. So it's nice that you get
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: it again on both the Use your Illusion albums. But that,
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: I think the cool thing about it that is a
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: challenging thing. And you don't normally say this about production
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: because you normally talk about how much high end or
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: bottom end or what the drums sound like. Is that
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: you get this trademark aggressive, violent, pushing and pulling slash
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: guitar sound. I think that's a big part of the
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: production on this. It really cuts through it. It's it's
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: a little bit like a buzz saw guitar sound, but
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: not too crazy. It just has enough bite to it
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: that it elevates the songs into this real outlaw bad
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: boys sort of status. So yeah, I don't know how
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: much credit you really need to give to Mike Clink
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: for that, but you could possibly give them quite a
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: bit of credit. Does it come from the fingers? Does
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: it come from the ampt choices? Does it come from
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: the engineering? You know? Does it come from the booze
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: and the drugs? Who knows? But fortunately it is there
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: and they use them again next time and it's still there,
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: which is nice. So they recognize that There is this
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: magic to the production tones and the textures on that debut,
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: and I think they recreate that across the Illusion albums.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Again, Klink had never produced a major album before that.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Was this a strategic move by gen R and Geffen
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: because they did audition others, including Paul Stanley.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Again, you know, that's even more argument
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: for the idea that did he really know what he
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: was doing or did they just happen to get lucky.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: I think there is a luck element to what they
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: get here. As visionary as Axel is, I don't think
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: he could have articulated to wind up with this particular
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: production values. But as we talked about, I mean one
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: of the big travesties of hair metal is overproduction. You know,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: way too many vocal, multiple takes of rhythm guitars all
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: playing at the same time, playing the same thing, too much, vocals,
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: too much snare drum. They just managed to pare it
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: back but still have it be powerful. But it's a
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: conservative production. It's a timeless seventies kind of production. There's
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: not a single thing in this production job that sounds dated.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: There's a really cool connection with Paul Stanley and Mike
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Clink that I didn't realize until I was reading the
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: book and then looking this up. Paul Stanley at the
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: time was working on the Crazy Nights album and that
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: was produced by ron Nevison. Mike Clink was a trainee
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: of ron Nevison. I didn't know that. That's pretty cool.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think it would have sounded like
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: if Paul Stanley produced this? It would have sounded more
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: like because he wanted it to sound more like maybe
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: a White Snake album.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Man who knows. Number One, Paul is no producer. I
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: mean Paul would be in there. He's not an engineer,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: producer and he doesn't produce much.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Did he produced New England's album?
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: I believe, Yeah, New England and I don't think the
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Kiss albums sound particularly good. I don't think any of
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: those sound particularly good. They're very They're very mid range,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: ye thin.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Crazy Knights is very thin.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Crazy Knights is definitely not a good sounding album.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: It's probably the worst of all those. But and ron Nevison,
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: I don't think particularly ever got that great productions out
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: of bands. I mean, we can go through all of them.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: I'm sure there's some good ones in there, but judging
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: how great this record sounds and how great it's sold,
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: you could only go down from there. But who knows.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, Paul definitely has great songwriting instincts, so I
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: think he could be the kind of producer that would
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: do a good job of picking the songs, changing things
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: around the parts a little bit, maybe working on the
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: arrangements a little bit, bringing all that vast Kiss knowledge
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: to the situation. But again that the silly thing is
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: that you can only go You can only go one
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: direction from from Amatite for destructions, success and quality, and
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: that's down. So logically speaking, if we did the math
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: on it, it would turn out a lot worse than
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: it did because you can't get much chicker than this.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, some people have said Guns of Roses and Appetite
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: was almost a bridge between metal and grunge, to bridge
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: the gap to grunge rock with Nirvana.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: I don't feel that at all. This is where, like
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: I think people over romanticize that album, and I don't
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: think there's there's an ounce of grunge in it at all.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: I think it's just a really high quality bridging of
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: the things you love about aerosmith and hair metal. And
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: that's it.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Kurt Cobain was not listening to Guns and Roses
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: at potential.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Oh and I'm I don't think grunge was particularly inspired
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: or influenced by any of this either. I mean, there
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: might have been a little bit of a signal connection
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: of the crossbreed of Duff being there and Seattle people
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: talking back and forth and some chatter there, but grunge
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: is just a next very impressive level of creative beyond
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: anything that happens in hair metal, and I think Appetite
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: is happening in hair metal. So I don't think it's
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: a particularly creative album. It is just good quality, conservative
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: hard rock and roll, very good songs, but it's not
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: crazy nutty creative, which grunge is. I think Grunge needs
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: to be commended for the insane artistic quality of coming
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: up with whatever those songs are across all those Sound
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Garden albums, and that cool hybrid sound that Alison Chains
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: came up with, and the weird scrapy nuttiness of Nirvana
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: and Tad and Melvin's kind of thing, and yeah, great
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: songwriting obviously with Nirvana as well. So no, I don't
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: I think literally all this does is it dirties up
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: hair metal for a few years.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: I'd love to know what your top pick is among
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: the hit singles and your top pick among the deep
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: tracks from Appetite the hit singles of course, Welcome to
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: the Jungle, Sweachild the Mind, Paradise City. Do you have
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: a favorite of the hit singles.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: I think Welcome to the Jungle is the best song
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: out of all of those. I think it's the most
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: aerosmithy in a smart aerosmithy way. And the rest of
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: the album is there is possibly some semi filler on there.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Or the thing that people forget about
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: that album is how long it is. And somehow, through
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: again all this luck that Guns n' Roses has, somehow
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: by the album being that long, it doesn't end up
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: being compromised on the sound the way Dawkin's Back for
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: the Attack or acdc's single live album If You Want
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Blood had happened to them. I think both of those
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: sound a little bit thin because they're too long, and
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: that doesn't happen with this album.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Fifty three minutes fifty two seconds long according to Wikipedia.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: I would say may Michelle and Rocke Queen those two.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: I love those two songs. Among the deep tracks, I
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: would have to go with RockA Queen if I had
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: to choose one. That's my top gut. It's so easy
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Night Train to get me. Mister Brownstone considered, I guess
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: the deep track, right, Mya Michelle, Yeah.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Mister Brownstone, I would say it's really good, very aerosmithy
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: my Michelle as well, but yeah, yeah, you think you
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: know you just said my Michelle and Rocket Queen. I mean,
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: talk about hair metal type right right, this is a
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: hair metal band. I have no problem thinking of them
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: as a hair metal band.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Anything goes You're crazy. Those are the two other deep tracks.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Some great stuff on there. Okay, let's talk about usual
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: losing one and two because by this time now Guns
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: of Roses, I guess arguably the biggest band in the world.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: There's a debate on that, but there's also a debate
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: as to whether the song should have been pared down
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: to just one your opinion.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: I think it's really cool. The outlaw nature of this
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: band is that it's like, Okay, you've all been complaining
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: that we haven't followed up this album. Here's two seventy
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: eight minute albums or seventy five or whatever. It is
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: all at once, which is literally even in the CDA.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: That adds up to like three albums, right, So three
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: albums come out all at once, across two albums, all
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: on the same day, same weird artwork with a kind
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: of scrappy, weird story, like an adapted piece of artwork.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Even that shows Axel's artistry where he just sweated bullets
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: over coming up with his artwork and came up with this.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: I love the title use Your Illusion. I think that's
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: really cool. I don't think the sort of falling down
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: the rabbit hole of fillerness is as bad as some
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: of the filler on something like a Clash Sandinista on here.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: I think everything is essentially a properly put together song,
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: maybe except for my world, but everything else is kind
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: of in the zone of a song that seems worked
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: on enough. I don't think it needs paring down. I
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: think it's just a great part of you know, a
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: story in rock and roll that this happened, that you
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: got these two massive long albums full of what do
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: we got here? Fourteen and sixteen, so you got thirty
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: songs all in total, and some long songs in there
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: as well. So yeah, I thought it was really cool.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: I thought Matt Sorum drumming, I don't know. I've heard
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: people complain about the drums and oh, you didn't have
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: the feel of Steven Adler and all this stuff. I
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: don't care. I love his style.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: See, I feel that i'd miss Stephen Adam. I I'm
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: one of those who not that Sorm's a bad drummer
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: at all. I'm not saying that, but I love Steven
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Adler's sound. Yeah, you know?
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: To me? To me what I like about Matt Srem
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: or is it the.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Production of my Clink? Because I don't even know. I
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: didn't even know Adler's on He's on Civil War, He's
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: on one track.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: Right, So yeah, that's a complicated to be honest with you.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't have known. So maybe it's the production. I
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: don't know. But there's something about Adler's drums on Appetite
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: that I love.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: It's funny. Matt Sorm to me, sounds like he drums
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: like Slash plays the guitar. There's this hard edge to
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: what he does. There's a clatteriness, almost towards a Vinnie
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Paul kind of hard surface feel to what he does
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: in here, and that's something that's in collaboration with Mike Clink.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: But but I love that there's this hardness to the production.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: There's this hardness to the drumming, and there's this hardness
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: to slash his tone, and obviously there's an acidic hard
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: quality to Axel singing as well. So yeah, they're a violent,
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: aggressive sounding band.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: In his defense, he had to actually explain the drum
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: pills people were actually criticizing soum oh, it's the same
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: damn drum fill bump bump, bum bum. He explained that
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: was Axel's idea. It was to connect the sound, the
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: overall sound of these two albums, so he would tell
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: him to do that same signature Phil, And.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: That's very cool. I mean, that's again Axel seeing the
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: big picture, a little bit like Malcolm and Angus having
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: some you know, influence over the drumming of Phil Rudd
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: right right, kind of the same sort of thing. So yeah,
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: that's pretty cool. And yeah, I think you end up
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: with the creative bunch of songs which widen the palette
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: a little bit. They're both quieter and louder than Appetite,
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: which you would expect given thirty songs, and many of
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: them long, so you get axel More coming into his
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: own as the balladeer a little bit as well. They're punkier,
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: they're bluesier. There's some that are straight down the middle
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: that could have been on those albums. I've always liked
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: you could be Mine a lot. I always thought that
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: was a really cool song. I think they do a
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: great job and they silence the critics and they do amazing.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: They're huge, selling records.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Booked on rock podcasts. Will be back after this.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: Could we go now? Please people? A good plan today
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: is better than perfect plan tomorrow.
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: I feel bad skipping over Lies. That's a great album.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: That's like, oh, by the way, here's Lies that has
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: patience on it. It's a studio album, but there's songs
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: that they had recorded or wrote prior to Appetite.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a very complicated situation. You've got the EP,
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: the faux indiep so, you've got the faux live material,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: you've got the acoustic material, and then you put it
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: all together. It's got this complicated title that the original
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: has a complicated title, the follow up as a complicated title,
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: and the actual you know the GNR lies is like, okay,
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: well is it long enough to be? So it makes
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: you cranky even talking about it because you don't know
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: whether to consider an LP or an EP. It's got
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: this fragmented, two sided thing. And then they get even
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: more annoying and they put out a covers album where
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: the title of that is a nonsensical title. The spaghetti
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: incident has to do with you know, where Steven would
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: stash his drugs in the spaghetti takeaway ten in the
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: or you know, the styrofoam in the fridge. But not
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: only that, it's an annoying title, and then it's got
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: a question mark on the end, which is annoying, and
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: then they put it in quote marks, which is annoying,
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: Like King Diamond them right. But what I do like
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: about that album is it's really thoughtful song choices and
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: it's deep track song choices and yeah, again you get
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: that great use your illusion production qualities to it it sound.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: It all hangs together really good. It's like a really capable, ambitious,
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: really purposeful covers album.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: That was the last time we would hear of Guns
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: and Roses. They seem to be impervious to the oncoming
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: grunge era, but we know what happened. Ben just fell apart.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: They fall apart round ninety four. Fifteen years later we
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: get Chinese democracy.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and none of this is really you know, the
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: true original members we care about. But yeah, so we
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: finally eventually get this. It's another super long album. I
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: really don't like that people put it down because again
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: it's Axel being incredibly artistic and creative and being meticulous, ambitious,
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: trying super hard. It's a recording masterpiece. I mean, some
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: people say it's bloated, it's too over recorded, but again
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: it's great that it just doesn't sound like plain old
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Guns n' Roses. So I think it's a great addition
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: to the catalog. Again, going back to that episode of
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: the Contrarians I did where it's the top ten answers
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: to how many Guns and Roses albums there are, this
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: is another one that you kind of leave out. People
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: leave out the live album, Do you leave out greatest hits?
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: Do you leave out the covers album? Do you leave out?
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: In Our Lives? Is use Your Illusion? One album? The
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: real negative Guns and Roses non fans will say they
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: only had one album, the debut, everything else is crap,
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: But yeah, Chinese Democracy is one that people wonder how
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: legitimate is it? You know, one could argue that Slash
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: albums or Velvet Revolver albums are as Guns and Roses
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: e as. You know, you can include them as much
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: as you can include Chinese Democracy. But I think it's
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: a good album and it's great, and it's just another
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: part of the outlaws strange story of this band. And
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: then even going beyond that, they even break more rules
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: by just having these little dribs and drabs of single
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: songs come out hard school and whatnot. Right, the general
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: in general or whatever it's called. Right, will we ever
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: see another Guns and Roses album?
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Who knows?
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: But you look at this catalog and it's nuts. And
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: I go back to that episode I did about how
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: many albums are there. This is a band that possibly
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: is realizing that the idea of the album is an
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: outdated concept and they could end up doing what we
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: see hip hoppers do all the time and just put
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: out songs here and there and don't worry about albums
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: too much. Right, So yeah, I'll add all that up
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: and Sympathy for the Devil and a few other things
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: here and there and take some rarities and maybe you
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: have another Guns n' Roses album. Not quite yet, they
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: haven't done enough of that yet where you have that much.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it would be amazing see another Guns n'
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: ros album. And I truly actually do hope that. Well.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: I'm of two minds. I could see these dribs and
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: drabs being on it, or you know, it would almost
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: be more in Axel's nature, being such creative that he is,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: is say, let's just do another bank of new songs,
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: nothing old, and and it being really long. Again, you
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: figure that when it happens, it will be a long album.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: I hope it does happen, and I hope it is
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: a long album.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Same here. If that original lineup remained, or even the
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: lineup with Matt sam in place of Steven Adler, how
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: different would g in our history be. We are talking
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: about them right now. I think it's because primarily they
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: came back, because if they did not, I don't know,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: maybe we wouldn't be celebrating forty years because it would
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: have been in a band that was over and done
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: with in two thousand and eight. Even before that, if
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: you want to look at the way things play out,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: in mid nineties they were done. How would things have been?
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: How would they be looked at? I mean they would
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: be looked at as like the Stones or Ozzy Osborne
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: made a comment about that if they stay together, they'd
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: be like the Stones of hard rock.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, and come to think of it,
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: it's an interesting way of thinking about it because I
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: think I think Duff is a traditional no bones rock
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: and roller. I mean, he's got his punk rock, but
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: he just loves hard rock and punk rock, classic rock
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: slash is pretty traditional. So I think I think if
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: those guys were in there along the way, maybe maybe
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: the lure of money and fame and all that stuff
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: and the asking for records, we'd get a bunch more records,
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: but they'd probably be a little more conservative. I don't.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: I don't think you'd see a Chinese democracy with those guys,
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: because it takes an axle to make a Chinese democracy.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: So yeah, maybe the next album, just by virtue of
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: it being three strong songwriters, is going to be more
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: conservative than Chinese democracy.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: Twenty sixteen is a major year in GNR history. Two
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: of the forty moments in this book take place that year. First,
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: the gn R reunion tour with Slashing Duff back on board,
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: but also Axel stepping in for Brian Johnson in ACDC.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: We touched upon this earlier. Just want to get into
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: a little bit more. You write, quote, if there were
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: any vestiges left of Axel Rose's reputation needing continued rehabilitation,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: his run of twenty three dates fronting ac DC took
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: care of the final strokes. What was more surprising the
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: reunion actually happening or Axel fronting ACDC.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: The reunion, I don't think is that surprising. And like
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: I say, what I've learned throughout the process of doing
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: this book is how those guys kind of kept in
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: touch and they could fight, they could have legal battles,
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: but they could get back together. And I think the
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: music draws them together. You know, you've had guests showing
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: up and stuff like that. So the reunion is not
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: that surprising to me. But the fronting ACDC was crazy surprising.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: I didn't think ACDC would do anything like that. I
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: would think if you're gonna lose Brian, you would probably
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: try to lose them permanently for a proper replacement. And
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: I think Axel is just a weird choice. I never
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: think of ACDC as a California band, and they're obviously
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: not American even, And it's strange to have such a
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: distracting presence as someone who's actually even more famous than
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: any member of ACDC ever was fronting the band. It's
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: such a shining, blinding light presence in that role. You know,
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: you hear about the business, It's like, well, you can't
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: cancel these shows, and people are gonna find this interesting.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: The most important thing we need to do, forget about
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: any artistic concerns. The most important thing we need to
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: do is these shows got to go off. They have
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: to happen, right. So it's a bizarre. It was a
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: bizarre chapter in rock and roll history to have that happen.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: What I loved about it and what I said there
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: in that little sentence there is it is really cool
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: that people loved Axel in the role and they were
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: all surprised how good he did. I don't think people
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: expected him to do that well. He was professional, his
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: voice sounded great, he knew the songs, he sang them properly.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: And I think, like I said there, I think his
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: reputation was even more greatly repaired by doing that job.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Not only did he do a great job I think
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: of singing those songs, but there was the interview that
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: he did where he just talked about he had the
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: ultimate respect for Angus and the band, and then seeing
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: him on stage where he intentionally stood back. He set
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: his ego aside. He wasn't going to be the show.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: He was just going to sing and Angus are going
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: to do his thing. He was standing back almost like
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: you see the basis of Malcolm and Cliff Williams. Actel
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: almost did that too, which I thought was it really
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: did rehabilitate his reputation, just made them look like a
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: cool guy. Where do you rank Guns of Roses among
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: the greatest bands of all time? This kind of goes
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: back to what if they remain together all those years
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: in the nineties, between mid nineties and twenty sixteen, But
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: would you rank them top ten, top five, top twenty?
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: Not very high at all. I mean, I you know,
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: most of my favorite bands would have started in the
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: seventies and had lots and lots and lots of records.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: So my favorite bands, I mean, I don't even think
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: about Guns and Roses until I'm down around I don't know,
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: fifteen twenty kind of thing. I like a lot of
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: bands way way more than Guns of Roses, but yeah,
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: they are definitely one of the great bands. I mean,
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: like I say, even I fall prey to the oh
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: they don't have a lot of records sometimes, but really
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: they have. I'd say they have in the region of
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: six or seven albums out, which is which is pretty
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: decent to my mind. It almost puts them in. You know,
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: I've just knocked off a Conturion's show where I conceded
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: that Max Webster is not my favorite Canadian band of
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: all time and they belong further down the list. But
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: I often would say that because there are these certain
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: bands that have like five six albums out that I
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: think are amazing across everything they ever did, But the
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: catalogs are short, and that would be like Max Webster, Gillen, Soundgarden,
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: the Police, right, they all have about this same length catalogs,
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: and Guns of Roses kind of fits in that as well.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: So there's a ceiling for me on great bands of
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: all time is like, you gotta have twenty albums out.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: That's generally most of the bands that I would put
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: above Guns and Roses have fifteen albums out at least
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: kind of thing, and most of them start in the seventies.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Because I'm old, so that happens. So no, I'm definitely
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: not gonna put them in my I don't think they'd
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: make my top fifteen, even.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Guns of Roses at forty. It's out now find it
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: wherever books are sold. Look forward at your nearest bookstore.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: You could find your nearest independent bookstore by going to
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: books on rock dot com. And where can people find you? Martin?
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Talk about your podcast whatever else you got going on.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I've got the audio podcast History and five
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: songs with Martin pop Off. I have one idea with
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: John Gaffney which is audio as well, Kicked in the
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: Teeth in ACDC podcast. We've got our YouTube channel, the Contrarians.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: Martin Popoff dot com is where you can get all
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: my books. I've done about one hundred and thirty books.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: About one hundred of them are in print, and there
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: are PayPal buttons there and all that I signed them,
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: send them out from the office here in Toronto. And yeah,
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: this is the latest and the big Iron Maiden one
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: followed by their name, the Official Iron Maiden Bible came
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: out just last month as well, and more coming down
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: the pipes.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Awesome Martin, thanks as always for being on. We'll talk
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: to you again down.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: The road, all right. Thank you. Eric.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: That's it. It's in the books.