Latest / Karl and Crew / Navigating AI with Dr. Drew Dickens and Stories of Persecuted Christians with Todd Nettleton

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Navigating AI with Dr. Drew Dickens and Stories of Persecuted Christians with Todd Nettleton · Karl and Crew

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S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond its cast
0:05
S1: and crew.
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S2: Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome what seems
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S2: impossible and live. As you never imagined.
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S1: Delivering the truth daily.
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S3: Lord, we thank you that you are so much greater
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S3: that there's no force, no person, no power that can
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S3: stand against you. Our great God.
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S4: Satan has blinded the minds of the unbeliever. But Jesus
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S4: gives sight to the blind.
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S5: I came born with revenge, but then I became born again.
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S5: And I want people to know God's love.
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S1: Now, from the call of Hope Studios. This is Carl
0:41
S1: and crew.
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S2: Gentlemen, this is a football. Who said it? Young thunder,
0:46
S2: Vince Lombardi. Why did he say it?
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S4: Uh, because it is important to stop overcomplicating things every
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S4: now and then. Especially in sports. Your mind can overcomplicate things.
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S4: You start to think too much and then the game
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S4: gets too hard because you're overthinking. So you need to
1:03
S4: be simple about things sometimes.
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S2: Sometimes. Ali, what's the goal of a basketball on a court?
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S3: Get it into that cylinder. That orange cylinder that's elevated
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S3: ten feet above the court. Yeah, by any means necessary.
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S3: Get that ball in the hoop.
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S2: And can we overcomplicate things when it comes to church?
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S4: Yes, absolutely we can.
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S2: How do we do it?
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S3: Many ways. Um.
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S4: We overcomplicate things probably by, uh, maybe overvaluing certain things
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S4: that are done within the church, you know?
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S2: Yeah. So yeah, I think, yeah, stylistically we can overcomplicate things.
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S4: Yeah. We can overcomplicate things. And when I say overvaluing,
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S4: I'm not saying that there are things. It's just it's
1:55
S4: not important to serve or things like that. But overvaluing
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S4: isn't like putting a, you know, a greater spiritual hierarchy
2:03
S4: on different types of service.
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S2: Yeah. And, and yeah, I mean, programs, when I say
2:11
S2: that term, man, people get a rash right around their neck.
2:15
S2: It can programs can be awesome, but they can also
2:18
S2: deflect from this is a football.
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S4: Yeah, 100%.
2:22
S3: And depending on what kind of church you go to,
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S3: denominations there tend to be certain rules. They're not really written,
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S3: but they seem to be well understood by the people
2:32
S3: who have been there the longest. And so for the
2:35
S3: person who's coming in, you can feel like you got
2:38
S3: to you got to learn some sort of secret code.
2:41
S3: You know, I grew up in a church where the
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S3: ushers might as well been the president of the United States.
2:47
S3: I mean, the way.
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S2: They take a sip of coffee and I just spit
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S2: it back in. Oh, my word. What do you mean
2:52
S2: by that?
2:53
S3: These ushers were given, like, Secret Service level responsibilities. So
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S3: they had on black suits, white shirts, white gloves, and
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S3: they ran the church like a machine. So there were
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S3: certain times that you could walk in. There were certain
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S3: times that you could not walk in. So let's say
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S3: you happen to come into the lobby of the church
3:13
S3: while the pastor was praying. Those women, usually 65 and up,
3:18
S3: they were standing with their arms folded on the inside
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S3: of the door. And if you would try to open
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S3: that door, you'd see that white glove like, don't you dare.
3:27
S3: And you would go, okay. So you definitely can't open
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S3: the door while the pastor's praying. And don't you dare
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S3: walk through the pulpit. That was probably in Scripture somewhere,
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S3: I thought, because nowhere should your feet ever be in
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S3: the pulpit, because that was a sacred place. Nobody walked through.
3:44
S3: So there were all these rules.
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S4: Goodness gracious.
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S3: Anybody listening who was raised in a church like that,
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S3: you know, you know the rules. And so you. But
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S3: you start to think that somehow that those things are
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S3: like biblical.
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S2: Yeah. And they begin to take precedent over this as
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S2: a football.
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S3: Over other things. And so there becomes this complicated system
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S3: of doing church, and I'm using air quotes and you
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S3: feel like you're kind of on the in or the out.
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S3: You get a sense of pride once you know the
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S3: this is the time to sit and stand and kneel
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S3: and you get the procedure of it. You think you've
4:20
S3: got something special. And if you don't have those things,
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S3: you think maybe this isn't for me.
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S2: Yeah. And well-meaning people and well-meaning pastors and pastors, if
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S2: you're listening to me right now, I know you've felt this.
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S2: There can be a unspoken rule list of two things
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S2: that validate or sadly invalidate a pastor.
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S3: Okay, what are those?
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S2: How many people are coming and how much money is given? Yeah.
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S2: And frankly, there are great men of God who have
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S2: been beat up by Satan because they feel like in
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S2: a season, their, their worth or their competence as a
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S2: pastor or a shepherd is undermined because the numbers aren't there.
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S2: The problem with that is, is when we have the
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S2: wrong metrics or we're getting programs on top of programs
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S2: and we forget this is a football, we lose the
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S2: plot line, we we lose it, and we're off onto
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S2: some tangential things that have nothing to do with this
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S2: as a football. And at the end of the day,
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S2: we are all people born with our backs to God,
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S2: lost as geese and can't find our way to God. Jesus,
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S2: while we were yet sinners, died for us. The gospel
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S2: is a gospel of repentance. The first gospel penned is
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S2: Mark chapter one, verse 14. He went out and didn't
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S2: tell people except or say these words. It was repentance.
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S2: It was a call for people to turn from religious systems.
6:08
S2: It was a call to, in many ways, by virtue
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S2: of a decision to follow Jesus Christ. Say goodbye to
6:15
S2: earthly family. Can you imagine that? Yeah. It was. It
6:19
S2: was to say goodbye to an inheritance that would give
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S2: you a home and security. It was it. To go
6:27
S2: all in with Jesus was high cost attached to it.
6:34
S2: So here's what I want to do. I just felt
6:37
S2: led of the spirit. I mean, I want to rally
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S2: you to something right now. I want to say, let's
6:43
S2: get back to this as a football. And to do
6:46
S2: that on November 14th, I'm going to come out of
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S2: the chute Hot. The lie that fills our churches with
6:54
S2: lost people. And they are filled with lost people. In fact,
6:56
S2: I had someone here just text me or sent me
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S2: a a a message. Fascinating. Criswell was a was the
7:08
S2: lead pastor of the largest Baptist church in all of America. Okay.
7:12
S2: It was a mega church before there were megachurches.
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S3: Okay.
7:15
S2: And he was a good man. He stood so righteously
7:19
S2: shoulder to shoulder with, like, Evie Hill and some of
7:21
S2: these African American communicators in Evie Hill could flat preach
7:25
S2: it up, people. In fact, he he preached on hell
7:31
S2: and he preached on. The only way to avoid it
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S2: is repentance and full surrender of your life to Jesus.
7:39
S2: In fact, one. One Sunday you. Evie was getting up
7:45
S2: and he tells this story and I'm not going to
7:47
S2: do it justice. I'm. I'm horrible at telling jokes and
7:50
S2: even sometimes getting the tenor of what went down. But
7:52
S2: he tells his story. Before he went on to his
7:55
S2: reward many years ago about his wife asking him, what
7:58
S2: are you going to preach on? And she didn't hear
8:00
S2: the word don't before he said, go to hell. But
8:03
S2: his message that day was, don't go to hell. And
8:07
S2: he said it was kind of funny because she didn't
8:09
S2: hear don't. And, and he was laughing about that. And
8:13
S2: I thought, can you laugh about that, EV? And I thought, yeah,
8:16
S2: you can. And here's, here's what this guy said about Criswell,
8:21
S2: who was a contemporary with e.V. Hill and many other
8:25
S2: great communicators. He said Criswell said he believed back in
8:33
S2: the day that 50% of the people who came regularly
8:37
S2: to the first I think it's First Baptist Church of Dallas,
8:41
S2: I think. Did not know Jesus personally. 50%.
8:49
S3: Wow.
8:49
S2: I've heard numbers that range higher than that. I've spoken
8:54
S2: with Pastor Erwin Lutzer, Colin Smith. Guys, we got to
9:00
S2: get back to this is a football session two on
9:06
S2: the 14th is the truth that makes dead people come alive.
9:10
S2: Session three. I'm most excited about seven Surprising ways God
9:14
S2: saves those you love and this in. Some of you
9:17
S2: have thought, how in the world is this going to happen?
9:20
S2: I'm going to open up scripture and show you how
9:23
S2: God saves those you love. And on at least three
9:28
S2: of them, there's something you can do about it. You
9:31
S2: join God in it. How cool is that?
9:33
S3: This is going to be a phenomenal conference. It's a
9:35
S3: couple hours on a Saturday morning, Saturday, November 14th. You
9:38
S3: want the details? We've got a couple things for you.
9:41
S3: We've got the book intro. Plus, we want to send
9:43
S3: you the QR code to get registered in person if
9:46
S3: you're in the Chicagoland area, live stream for everyone else.
9:49
S3: 805 557898 text intro to 805 557898. Just text the
9:57
S3: word intro.
9:58
S2: Yeah. And somebody said, oh boy, I don't have one
10:01
S2: of those fancy phones that can click the QR code.
10:03
S2: No problem, because we've got a link in there at
10:05
S2: the bottom of the intro as well. You just click
10:07
S2: the link and you can get signed up. I would
10:10
S2: love to see you in Rolling Meadows live or online live.
10:15
S2: And it's gonna and it's, I'll tell you what it's
10:17
S2: going to be. This is a football. This, this is
10:21
S2: a basketball. Yeah. Here's what we're trying to do. This
10:25
S2: is the gospel beyond all the programming and all the
10:29
S2: stuff that we do. And it's so well intended, we
10:32
S2: can't forget keeping the main thing, the main thing. So
10:38
S2: I hope to see you. I really do text intro
10:42
S2: to 805 88. 98. One word intro. Is that a word?
10:47
S3: Yeah, that is a word.
10:49
S2: Okay. Intro to 805. 5578, 98. Come one, come all.
10:57
S2: Free it up if you've got some few hours on
11:01
S2: the 14th of November. I can't wait to see you there.
11:05
S1: Youngest in age, oldest at heart, Young Thunder is in
11:09
S1: the crew. You're listening to Carl and crew.
11:13
S2: What's something you used to believe was a, quote, gospel essential,
11:19
S2: end quote. Based on your church culture or experience? Give
11:23
S2: us a call or go online right now. You can
11:25
S2: text or call. We'd love to get your calls 805
11:29
S2: 557898 805 557898. What do you say, my man?
11:38
S4: For me it was. And I say this with all
11:41
S4: the background of I wasn't really saved back then, but
11:45
S4: I had tons of misconceptions and for me it was
11:48
S4: the dress code, man. I, uh, I thought you didn't
11:51
S4: have to be in a suit and tie or anything,
11:52
S4: but you had to. You had to come in trying
11:55
S4: with some clothes you didn't normally wear on, you know,
11:57
S4: a weekday or on a Saturday. And, uh, I was,
12:00
S4: I was pretty harsh to my buddies about it. I
12:02
S4: had a friend, he'd come in and he'd come in
12:05
S4: with a t shirt and jeans or sometimes shorts, and
12:07
S4: I would make fun of him. And I feel bad.
12:09
S4: I feel so bad about that now. I don't, I
12:11
S4: don't you know, me and him haven't kept in touch,
12:13
S4: but I'm like, man, I wish I could find him
12:15
S4: and apologize because I just. That was a jerk move.
12:18
S4: You can come in with shirts and shorts and a
12:20
S4: t shirt. Who cares man. Come in and worship Jesus.
12:23
S3: Just got this one by text message. Someone said, I
12:25
S3: used to think you had to not only understand the
12:29
S3: King James Version, but you also had to pray aloud
12:33
S3: like that.
12:33
S4: Oh.
12:34
S3: That feels like heavy duty pressure, right? That you not
12:37
S3: only understand the King James, but also be able to
12:40
S3: speak in that way That's heavy.
12:44
S2: That's heavy. You know, and they're they're big things in there.
12:47
S2: Little things. I mean, it was I think that when
12:53
S2: it came to response, um. And what is commonly called
13:01
S2: by theologians today. Decisionism. The reason I made trips down
13:06
S2: the aisle. I mean, I thought that that aisle was
13:09
S2: where you needed to walk if you needed to be
13:12
S2: wanted to be born again and avoid hell. And that
13:15
S2: there was something magical about that trip down the aisle.
13:18
S3: Yes. I 100% I was with you on that. And
13:21
S3: so I thought that you should keep doing it kind
13:25
S3: of as in a just to be sure sort of way. Like, okay,
13:29
S3: one more time, because I want to, I want to
13:32
S3: make it certain.
13:33
S2: Yeah. Yeah. In certainty is found in the Spirit of
13:39
S2: God agreeing with your spirit that you are born again.
13:42
S2: And it's not about walking an aisle. Could you walk
13:45
S2: an aisle and be born again? Yeah, but it's an
13:48
S2: internal radical transformation, surrendering and repenting all that you are
13:54
S2: to Jesus Christ. Yeah. In fact, somebody sent us a
13:57
S2: text here. It says, in recent weeks you've been talking
14:00
S2: about the unstoppable gospel. It seems like you've been somewhat vague,
14:03
S2: and this morning you've been clear. Well, pardon us, man,
14:06
S2: if we've lacked clarity. We want to be clear around
14:08
S2: this one.
14:09
S3: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, this one they were taught I'm going
14:14
S3: to be careful with this one because I understand this
14:16
S3: is going to. But that there were certain emotional responses
14:20
S3: that were required that would somehow prove that things were real.
14:24
S3: I think, yeah, there are certain I, I've been in
14:28
S3: churches like that where you're, there's, there's heavy pressure on
14:31
S3: a certain type of response.
14:34
S2: Yeah. Lift in hands or. Yeah. Or who knows what
14:38
S2: it may be. But yeah, there can be peer pressure
14:41
S2: is a powerful thing. Yes. And we never outgrow it.
14:44
S3: And that the doubt isn't or that it's not an
14:47
S3: introspective look at what's actually happening in my heart. It's
14:51
S3: do I have the right outward expressions of it?
14:55
S2: Yeah, it's really true. Megan in Spokane, Washington. What do
14:58
S2: you say? Megan, thanks for calling in this morning.
15:01
S6: I'm going to say boom and good morning. Good morning. Yes.
15:06
S6: So I was this hits deep for me because like
15:10
S6: I said, I'm not going to name this church. But
15:13
S6: there was a lot of rules. It was workspace. And
15:16
S6: you have to you had to. It's very scary because
15:18
S6: you have to hold your to, to purify yourself. And
15:20
S6: then they're the ones that tell you, you go through
15:23
S6: a series of questions to be baptized. And in baptism,
15:27
S6: you have to wear all white. Put your hair back.
15:29
S6: If even one hair. I've seen it in there. If
15:31
S6: even one hair they can see, they'll redo the whole thing.
15:35
S6: So it's terrifying. And then you're set up for failure.
15:39
S6: There's no way you can meet all those requirements and and,
15:42
S6: you know, come out of everything I had. That was
15:44
S6: my first experience with churches. Um, and so it was
15:48
S6: when I, when I read the Bible and I saw, oh, wait,
15:52
S6: there's no second book. Um, I, I, of course left.
15:55
S2: There's no second book.
15:58
S6: There's not.
16:00
S2: Um.
16:00
S6: And it was scary though it left me. I couldn't
16:03
S6: go to churches for years. I didn't know who to
16:06
S6: trust because I read the Bible and I'm like, wait
16:07
S6: a minute, I don't know anything at all. I don't
16:10
S6: know who I can trust. I and this is where
16:13
S6: it's really cool for you guys because you know who
16:15
S6: it was? It was Moody Radio. And I remember hearing
16:19
S6: John MacArthur the first time in the radio, and it
16:23
S6: and it was truth and I felt it. And then
16:26
S6: I heard Erwin Lutzer and then I heard Chuck Swindoll.
16:28
S6: Oh my goodness, I was hooked. I've been I'd have
16:31
S6: to say I've been a junkie ever since then. Um, and,
16:35
S6: and I just, I have been. Um, and then, you know,
16:39
S6: you guys have been with me like, this is the
16:40
S6: coolest story ever. Um, I was abducted, um, in trafficked
16:44
S6: for three months in, in Spokane. Um, anyways, but they
16:49
S6: had trackers and all kinds of stuff in my phone
16:51
S6: and my phone didn't work at all except a worship
16:54
S6: radio station and moody radio app worked and I listened
16:58
S6: the whole three months I was there, there was no
17:00
S6: way you could stop. God. He broke through and, um,
17:03
S6: he he saved me. But it was you guys, you
17:06
S6: guys that were with me every single morning. My goodness,
17:09
S6: that's a true story. That is a true story I've
17:12
S6: called in before. I'm kind of.
17:13
S2: Megan, listen.
17:15
S6: Unofficial.
17:16
S2: No, listen, you're in the boom crew, sister. And I
17:19
S2: thank you so much for calling in today. And I
17:21
S2: know that there's a story behind that story for sure.
17:24
S2: But here's what we find in Matthew 23. Woe to you,
17:28
S2: scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites. These are Jesus's words for you
17:34
S2: clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but
17:37
S2: inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Ooh. Don't
17:40
S2: you know these guys were ticked when they heard this?
17:43
S3: And these were known as the most religious of the religious.
17:46
S2: Yeah. He said, you blind Pharisee, first clean the inside
17:51
S2: of the cup, and the plate in the outside also
17:54
S2: may be clean. He goes on to call him whitewashed tombs.
18:00
S2: You're dead and you don't even know it. And you're
18:04
S2: trying to put pig on lipstick on a pig, man.
18:08
S2: Doesn't work. Willie in Chicago. Willie, how are you? What
18:12
S2: was what was that thing that you thought was a
18:15
S2: gospel essential? And then you find out. Well, that's not it.
18:19
S7: That wasn't it. I was a country boy. I come
18:22
S7: from a little town, uh, east of little Rock. And, uh,
18:27
S7: it was on the farm, and I didn't go to
18:29
S7: church with a necktie and a, and a suit on.
18:34
S7: I had on my starched blue jeans and my tan
18:37
S7: post boots on my Tony Lama boots. I wore western
18:40
S7: boots and a black necktie and a hat, and I
18:44
S7: had my hat under my arm. When I came in.
18:46
S7: They looked at me real funny, but the people that
18:49
S7: was in charge didn't say anything about it. Greater is
18:54
S7: he that is in you than he that is in
18:56
S7: the world.
18:57
S2: Amen.
18:58
S7: I had my worldly clothes on, but God was on
19:00
S7: the inside.
19:03
S2: Starched white jeans. Willie, I remember those starched white jeans. Brother, I,
19:09
S2: I I'm telling you, Willie, thanks for calling in, I
19:12
S2: love you. Yeah, this is an inside out deal.
19:17
S4: Mhm.
19:17
S2: And Jesus came and he just debunked all these crazy
19:21
S2: myths about what we value so much. And it's a
19:26
S2: beautiful thing, isn't it?
19:28
S3: It is because we get to go to the Word
19:30
S3: of God. And what a privilege that is. So you
19:34
S3: don't have to. Whether maybe you've never heard the name
19:37
S3: of Jesus before and you go into a church, you
19:41
S3: don't have to take the word of the person who's
19:43
S3: up front that day. You don't know what kind of
19:46
S3: church you're walking into. I hope it's a good one,
19:48
S3: but you get to go to the Word of God
19:50
S3: and check everything that's said and say, is this true?
19:53
S3: Or is this something that man has kind of taken
19:56
S3: and twisted? The Word of God is your truth?
20:01
S2: Yeah. God looks at the heart. It doesn't mean that
20:03
S2: we're reckless with regard to behavior, but it means that
20:08
S2: we're humble and contrite.
20:10
S1: Taking steps in our walk with Jesus.
20:13
S2: We can trust in the Lord. He is sovereign. He's
20:17
S2: not wringing his hands. He's got this in control.
20:20
S1: You're listening to Carl and crew.
20:22
S2: We're born with our backs to God. There's nothing righteous
20:26
S2: in us that can gain right standing with God. But
20:29
S2: Jesus through his shed blood. paid the price for our sins,
20:35
S2: went to the cross, carried it. And even though we
20:40
S2: were yet sinners, he died for us. That's an amazing thing.
20:44
S2: And then God in His goodness, by the power of
20:47
S2: the Holy Spirit and the grace of God, turns us
20:50
S2: around and puts our feet on a brand new path.
20:53
S2: It's called repentance. And with Carl and crew here, I
20:56
S2: gotta tell you, man, we are dead set against cultural
20:59
S2: Christianity because it's deadly. And we want you to truly
21:06
S2: walk with Jesus. And the funny thing in this world, Ali,
21:09
S2: is we've got a lot of distractions out there. And
21:13
S2: I'm seeing, um, recently on the internet, something that popped up.
21:18
S2: We've got a pastor who announced his congregation this last
21:22
S2: week that he's a polygamist. I don't know if you
21:24
S2: saw that.
21:24
S3: I did, I saw that.
21:25
S2: Oh my word. And then I saw I saw several
21:30
S2: other things that are in that same vein. And it
21:33
S2: makes you think, ah, how are we going to hold
21:36
S2: true to the gospel in this world, Ali?
21:38
S3: And it also makes you think, is this what some
21:41
S3: people are, are looking at and thinking.
21:43
S2: This is.
21:44
S3: It, right? And so it things like that add to
21:49
S3: the confusion. What does it mean? Is that what it
21:52
S3: means to follow Jesus?
21:54
S2: Ali. You're so right about that. And to hear the
21:57
S2: audience applauding and cheering, I was just like, wow. And
22:02
S2: then to see the rancor on on Twitter. I'm going
22:05
S2: to bring in Doctor Drew Dickens here. The amazing thing
22:08
S2: about that phenomenon this last weekend, drew, and I don't
22:12
S2: know if you saw it or not. It's quite all
22:14
S2: over the the X verse, as it were. But what's
22:19
S2: amazing is Ali just said it. When you get things
22:22
S2: out there, some of it's AI generated. But when you
22:26
S2: get it out there in this sphere of digital, it's
22:33
S2: hard to tell what's authentic and real from. What's a lie,
22:36
S2: my friend?
22:37
S8: Yeah. Remember six years ago, the most common phrase was
22:40
S8: you're on mute. You know, when we were on Zoom
22:42
S8: calls all day? Yes. Yes. The most common phrase that
22:45
S8: I'm hearing over and over and over again, every conversation
22:48
S8: I get into seems to involve. Is that AI.
22:51
S2: Right?
22:52
S8: Every time I post something, every time there's a video,
22:55
S8: I mean, somewhere in the comments it says is this AI?
22:58
S8: And it meant it just really cuts to what you're
23:00
S8: saying about is this true? And we don't have the
23:04
S8: discernment quite often. We're not praying as we go into
23:07
S8: these conversations like, Lord, just pause me for a moment
23:11
S8: and let me look at this with discerning eyes. Let
23:13
S8: me look at the spirit. Use a spirit to look
23:16
S8: at this, because it's harder and harder and harder to detect,
23:20
S8: to detect truth nowadays.
23:21
S3: Yeah. And the interesting thing is we talk Doctor Drew
23:25
S3: Dickens with us right now. We talk a lot about
23:27
S3: the High Ridge on this show. And so there's two
23:30
S3: sides that you can fall off of this high ridge
23:32
S3: as it comes to kind of where we are in
23:34
S3: the AI moment. One is that you could be easily
23:38
S3: deceived and believe everything that you see. And therefore you,
23:42
S3: you know, you see these memes about people. Well, you know,
23:45
S3: my dad showed me this video and said, hey, is
23:47
S3: this AI? And it's like a horse with a sombrero
23:51
S3: and dancing with high heels. And it's like, oh yeah,
23:53
S3: that's AI dad. Sorry about that. And then the other side,
23:56
S3: you could fall off is where nothing is true. Nothing
24:00
S3: is real, right? So then you become incredibly cynical. Yeah,
24:03
S3: you're right and closed off to anything because all of
24:07
S3: it's fake. You can't trust anything, right? So then there's
24:10
S3: this high ridge of discernment where you can see truth
24:14
S3: and false. Speak to that.
24:17
S8: A thin ridge.
24:18
S3: Yes.
24:19
S8: I hear from pastors. I want to say every day. Um,
24:23
S8: consulting with churches and what they're getting is they will
24:27
S8: be up in the pulpit preaching truth from the Word
24:29
S8: of God, and they know they're going to step down
24:32
S8: off the platform and check their email, and it's going
24:35
S8: to be full of people from the congregation saying, is
24:37
S8: that true? Um, because I asked AI, I've got a
24:41
S8: friend of mine, two, two friends of mine that are
24:43
S8: that are psychologists and they refer to AI as the
24:46
S8: second therapist in the room, because every conversation they seem
24:51
S8: to get into with a client involves the client saying,
24:54
S8: I asked AI that, or you told me to write
24:57
S8: a letter to my mom, but I asked AI to
25:00
S8: do that. So all of a sudden now they're competing
25:02
S8: against their training and AI telling a client something different.
25:08
S8: And so pastors are struggling with this every day because they're,
25:11
S8: they're preaching the truth, but then getting challenged by it. Um,
25:15
S8: of whether it's true or not.
25:17
S2: Yeah. Doctor Drew Dickens, our guest, when we get back,
25:20
S2: we're going to go down this a little bit more.
25:22
S2: How do we know what is truth in this world
25:24
S2: of even artificial intelligence. How can we discern that? And obviously,
25:30
S2: I'm going to I'm going to get we're not going
25:32
S2: to bury the punch line. You hold up the word
25:34
S2: of God up against it as the ultimate plumb line.
25:37
S2: But then where are we going with AI? We're going
25:40
S2: to get a quick flyby, the updates of AI. Where
25:44
S2: are we today with Doctor Drew Dickens?
25:47
S1: Take your next step with Jesus.
25:49
S3: Today we live boldly for Christ and trust that there
25:53
S3: are people who will see life.
25:55
S1: You're listening to Carl and crew.
25:58
S3: How do you know if what you are seeing is
26:00
S3: real or fake? Used to be that you. If you
26:03
S3: thought you were pretty tech savvy, you could spot something
26:06
S3: that was clearly not Photoshop. Ah, but we're not dealing
26:10
S3: with Photoshop. That's not the main thing anymore. We've got
26:14
S3: Doctor Drew Dickens with us right now. Visionary leader, AI expert,
26:17
S3: high profile story. Doctor Drew Dickens, I'd like for you
26:20
S3: for your feedback on it. A woman who used ChatGPT
26:25
S3: open AI to draft a schedule to help her wean
26:29
S3: off of a life saving seizure medication that she needed
26:34
S3: and ultimately died. And now her family is suing open AI. Um,
26:40
S3: you look at a story like that and you think,
26:42
S3: who who's at fault here? Is it should we be
26:46
S3: wise enough to not go to AI for medical decisions?
26:51
S3: But when you're getting information that seems like it's grounded
26:54
S3: in science and research. I'm sure you've seen this story.
26:58
S3: What do you say?
27:00
S8: You know, it reminds me even long before AI, there
27:03
S8: was a thought exercise called the The Trolley Dilemma. And
27:08
S8: in it they have a imagine a trolley car rolling
27:11
S8: down a track and you're at the switch and it
27:14
S8: can go left or right. Um is which direction do
27:17
S8: you send the trolley car. Uh, if there are kids
27:20
S8: down one track and elderly people down the other. Yes. Um,
27:23
S8: imagine programming that into self-driving cars. And that's where Tesla.
27:28
S8: That's where Waymo they're even trying to discern that is
27:33
S8: who's at fault if a self-driving car hits someone. Is
27:37
S8: it is it the line of code that was or
27:40
S8: wasn't in the, uh, in the, in the underlying program
27:44
S8: of the car? I mean, who's going to be at
27:46
S8: fault on these kind of things? You, you hit the
27:48
S8: nail on the head when you said discerning. Even if
27:50
S8: we go to a doctor, I think we should get
27:52
S8: a second opinion. And it's a tragic, tragic story, but
27:56
S8: it really raises a question of, of where do where
27:59
S8: do we go for truth? And do we keep drilling
28:01
S8: down into it until we get until we find it?
28:04
S8: Rough story.
28:05
S2: So the interesting thing here is one thing is still true.
28:09
S2: Remember when computers first came out? Everyone remembers this. It's
28:14
S2: garbage in, garbage out. There is still a lot of
28:18
S2: truth to that because If we just kind of throw
28:22
S2: ourselves at the at the the winds of AI without
28:26
S2: taking control with a Christian worldview, asking for good theologians.
28:32
S2: I've got my go to that. I'll I'll do prompts
28:35
S2: and digs with artificial intelligence, but I am driving the
28:39
S2: bus on where it's looking and I double check these things. Drew,
28:44
S2: give us some tips on that. And then we're going
28:47
S2: to go into the whole world of AI and what's
28:49
S2: going on with the genetics and everything.
28:51
S8: You know, one of my favorite questions to ask it,
28:53
S8: or not even a question, but a way to prompt
28:55
S8: it initially into a conversation is answer me as if
28:59
S8: is just is just those few words and the beginning
29:02
S8: of a prompt answer me as if you're a trained theologian, um,
29:07
S8: you know, a graduate of Moody Bible Institute, um, with
29:11
S8: a Christian worldview, orthodox belief of the inerrancy of Scripture,
29:15
S8: but set the parameter upfront of, of how you want
29:19
S8: to engage with it is. Probably the biggest takeaway is
29:22
S8: answer me as if you are. This is it. It
29:26
S8: helps me frame my thoughts going into the conversation, and
29:30
S8: it helps AI frame its responses back to me.
29:34
S3: So let's talk about Carl. You mentioned the Agentic AI.
29:37
S3: This is perhaps whenever we get into this part of AI,
29:41
S3: this is where I think people get most. I don't
29:45
S3: know what the I don't want to say freaked out,
29:47
S3: but this is where it feels like we really go
29:49
S3: off the rails a little bit. So first give us
29:51
S3: just a an understanding of what we mean by agentic AI.
29:56
S8: Well, boy, I have been talking up Agentic AI for
29:59
S8: so long and it's been embraced by corporate, the corporate world,
30:03
S8: the enterprise level. It's now starting to bubble up on
30:07
S8: the personal level. So we are we're not leaving, but
30:10
S8: we started in a phase of AI called generative AI.
30:13
S8: And that's what the G stands for in GPT generative AI.
30:17
S8: And it generates an answer. We ask it to draw
30:19
S8: a picture of a cat and it generates that that image.
30:22
S8: So that's how we it's normally a Google replacement kind
30:25
S8: of thing. Um, is we ask it questions. It generates
30:28
S8: an answer. We're now into an age of agentic AI
30:32
S8: and think of agent, uh, of something or someone that
30:36
S8: acts on our behalf is what an agent does, right?
30:39
S8: So in the AI world, what's starting to bubble up
30:41
S8: now in the personal level, and this is where it
30:44
S8: gets kind of sneaky is it's starting to appear in
30:47
S8: places where it's not necessarily labeled that way. But when
30:51
S8: you're logging into your fidelity account or you're on your bank,
30:55
S8: you know, your bank's website and things like that. Um,
30:58
S8: if you're chatting with a, with an, with an agent
31:02
S8: on your bank's website, you're talking to perhaps an AI agent.
31:08
S8: And so what an AI agent is something that remembers you. Um, it,
31:13
S8: it learns your preferences over, over time, and it provides
31:18
S8: tailored responses to you. And every language model is starting
31:22
S8: to come out with those now. Um, some of your
31:24
S8: users may be already listeners maybe already using some of these, um,
31:28
S8: their dots, uh, muse, uh, duet spark are some of
31:34
S8: the personal agents that are out there right now. And
31:39
S8: some of the use cases are really compelling and really
31:42
S8: intriguing is going to these bots to do shopping for us.
31:46
S8: Amazon is rolling out a big agentic release where it's
31:50
S8: going to help you shop. Um, and, uh, so shopping,
31:54
S8: running errands, uh, you know, uh, helping you remember to
31:58
S8: walk the dog and perhaps a better route to take.
32:00
S8: You know, those kind of things. The number one use
32:02
S8: case for it right now is finance. Um, well, the
32:06
S8: number one use case is getting one of these personal
32:09
S8: bots to go through your account and look for, um,
32:13
S8: subscriptions you've forgotten about? Boy, we can all relate to that.
32:16
S2: That's the number one use.
32:19
S8: Number one use case right now is what? Yeah. How
32:23
S8: many HBO accounts have I signed up for and forgotten about?
32:27
S8: It will go through and find all those and report
32:30
S8: back to you and cancel. Cancel the ones you want to.
32:33
S8: So I mean, who, who wouldn't be opposed to that?
32:36
S8: But then you start getting into the issues of privacy
32:38
S8: and that kind of thing. But people are just diving
32:41
S8: into these personal bots to do things for them autonomously.
32:46
S2: Yeah. This seems like a scalable issue that began years ago.
32:50
S2: I don't know if you remember a book by Neil
32:52
S2: Postman Entertaining Ourselves to death. It was required reading for me, uh,
32:57
S2: back in Multnomah Bible College and his summation of TV
33:03
S2: and any kind of, uh, big screen entertainment is that
33:07
S2: we are allowing, uh, half truths or lies to entertain
33:12
S2: us and therefore really shape our value system. This is
33:17
S2: just that on steroids now. So let's just bottom line
33:22
S2: this drew. As a follower of Jesus, how do you
33:26
S2: protect yourself knowing that we can be deceived? We can
33:30
S2: deceive ourselves. How do you protect yourself? And therefore, how
33:35
S2: can we from being inundated with worldviews and twists of
33:40
S2: truth that are nothing but a lie, to protect our
33:44
S2: heart from that, so that we can really walk in
33:46
S2: the way the Lord. You're talking to some of the
33:48
S2: greatest people on the planet right now, broken, humble disciples
33:51
S2: of Christ, listening right now. What do you say?
33:54
S8: Uh, on my podcast this week, the episode is about
33:59
S8: this topic because it's been really pushing into me is
34:04
S8: Jacob and Israel and wrestling, um, is wrestling with the word.
34:10
S8: Wrestling through prayer is so much a part of our
34:14
S8: discipling and our walk with Christ. AI smoothes out so
34:20
S8: much of that. It makes it frictionless. And I think
34:23
S8: that's the danger. That's the temptation. That's that's the allure
34:27
S8: of it. Um, and so what I, what I counsel
34:31
S8: myself every morning is to every day intentionally find something
34:35
S8: to do the hard way. Um, because AI is going
34:38
S8: to smooth everything else out. Um, and so it might
34:42
S8: be writing something by hand, it might be, um, writing
34:45
S8: a card, uh, doing something the hard way, I think
34:49
S8: reminds me to wrestle with God. They wrestled. If you
34:53
S8: remember the story, they wrestled all night until the morning
34:56
S8: when the blessing came. And so it wasn't the that
34:59
S8: wasn't the barrier that that was the purpose of wrestling
35:02
S8: and being present with the word and with God. And, um,
35:07
S8: and so that that's my, that's my counsel to myself
35:10
S8: is to not be afraid of the friction. To lean
35:14
S8: into that and find something to do. Hold the Bible
35:17
S8: in your hand and flip pages and use a pen
35:21
S8: to take notes. Do something the hard way.
35:24
S3: I love that my parents recently celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary,
35:30
S3: and so my daughter, as the oldest granddaughter for their
35:33
S3: big party, as she was commissioned with, hey, give a
35:37
S3: a little kind of speech on behalf of the grandkids
35:40
S3: celebrating your grandparents. She's like, no problem. And within 30s,
35:45
S3: she's like, I'm done. I said, wait, what? She goes, ChatGPT.
35:49
S3: And then so she reads me the most incredibly thoughtful.
35:54
S8: Great.
35:55
S3: And I said, no, you can't. No, you can't do that.
35:58
S3: That's not going to work. You're not going to get
36:01
S3: up there and read. And she was really perplexed as
36:05
S3: to what was the issue. These were words that she
36:07
S3: might actually have thought of herself. They were kind. They
36:11
S3: spoke well of her grandparents, and it was a very
36:14
S3: interesting conversation of trying to convince her why? Yes, that
36:19
S3: was a much easier way of going about getting the
36:21
S3: the speech for your grandparents anniversary party. But something about
36:26
S3: that feels really, really wrong, though it was much easier.
36:31
S3: Doctor drew Dickens that's what you're getting at, right? Is
36:34
S3: that the ease, the promise of. It's easier, it's quicker,
36:38
S3: it's faster, it's more efficient. But what? At what cost?
36:42
S8: At what cost? The my favorite word that you just
36:45
S8: said was she was so perplexed. And I love that
36:50
S8: you saw that because that would be the reaction you
36:53
S8: would have if your great grandparents said, hey, why don't
36:57
S8: you light a lamp, you know, for in the den
37:01
S8: to get some light in here? And you're like, why
37:03
S8: don't we just turn the light switch on? And so
37:06
S8: as perplexed as you would be right in that situation.
37:09
S8: She is growing up in a world where she's like,
37:12
S8: why would I take time to handwrite when I could
37:17
S8: have it do it? So she's growing up in that world.
37:19
S8: So I love you as a mom who who notices
37:22
S8: her her perplexity. No plug intentional there, but, um, but boy,
37:29
S8: we've got to be mindful as parents. Uh, that that's
37:32
S8: that's the world they're coming back from school with is
37:35
S8: one of ease and, and without friction. And we need
37:39
S8: to send them outside and play. Yeah.
37:42
S2: Amen. Well, we got a link for you, don't we, Ali?
37:45
S3: We do. You're going to text drew to 805 557898. What?
37:50
S3: You're going to get links to his site, his Substack
37:53
S3: the some resources simple faith tools. We've made reference to
37:57
S3: those over our different conversations. Just text drew to 805 557898.
38:05
S1: Celebrating the unstoppable gospel.
38:08
S4: You gotta get connected to the vine because Jesus is
38:12
S4: your power source. Nothing good can come apart from him.
38:16
S1: You're listening to Carl and crew.
38:19
S2: Carl and crew on this Freedom Friday. Uh, there's a
38:22
S2: lot of things that can cloud the clarity of the gospel.
38:27
S2: There's words like Ask Jesus into your heart. Even though
38:31
S2: Jesus never instructed that, it's nowhere found in the New Testament.
38:34
S2: Many have essentially invited Jesus to cohabitate with other gods
38:38
S2: of the age. And I know that might be hard
38:40
S2: to hear, because we've heard these things that almost become
38:45
S2: part of our Christian culture, right, Ali?
38:47
S3: Sure. And the language around it, it just we hear
38:51
S3: it so many times that. And when asked what it
38:54
S3: actually means, I think we get a little foggy.
38:56
S2: Yeah. A couple of the phrases I want to give
38:59
S2: you except Jesus. Well, many have accepted Jesus, but only
39:05
S2: those who receive him are called children of God. And
39:08
S2: there's a big difference between accepting and receiving. Make Jesus
39:13
S2: your personal Savior. Aside from the reality that we cannot
39:17
S2: make salvation happen, Jesus can only be Savior where he
39:21
S2: is first Lord of every square inch of who we
39:25
S2: are and what we become. Pray this prayer. I wish
39:29
S2: there was a patent prayer. Wouldn't that be awesome if
39:32
S2: there was this little prayer?
39:34
S3: You know.
39:34
S9: I.
39:35
S2: Could.
39:35
S9: Pray.
39:35
S3: I grew up in a church where at the end
39:38
S3: of every service, you were invited to join church. That
39:41
S3: was the language that I first heard.
39:43
S9: What did that mean?
39:45
S3: There would be a clerk of the church who would
39:48
S3: be sitting at the front of the at the altar,
39:50
S3: and there'd be a space or a chair, and they
39:53
S3: would invite people to join church based on their Christian
39:57
S3: experience or a different number. And it made absolutely no
40:00
S3: sense to me, but that was my understanding that people
40:04
S3: needed to join church if they were on the outs.
40:07
S3: And so I equated that with salvation.
40:10
S9: Yeah.
40:11
S2: And so this these are these foggy things that the
40:15
S2: Apostle Paul wrote to the church of Galatia. So it's
40:18
S2: been around for a couple thousand years that you can
40:21
S2: be bewitched is the word that he uses. Who bewitched you?
40:26
S2: And he goes on to say that that really began
40:29
S2: by the spirit. Why are we now turning into an
40:32
S2: exercise of the flesh, the flesh meaning human decision? Uh,
40:37
S2: it's it's what we do. So how do we position
40:41
S2: ourselves for God to truly transform our lives? We're going
40:47
S2: to break that down. We're going to get really clear
40:49
S2: with the gospel straight ahead.
40:52
S1: Walking closer to Jesus every day. You're listening to Carl
40:57
S1: and crew.
40:58
S2: You don't have to go too deep into the first
41:00
S2: gospel written Gospel of Mark was the first gospel that
41:04
S2: was penned. And you go 14 verses in guys, 14
41:09
S2: verses in and you get a definition of the gospel.
41:14
S2: Does anyone else want to hear what it is?
41:15
S9: Yes, please. There we go.
41:18
S2: Uh, so John the Baptist was arrested and Jesus then
41:24
S2: came into Galilee. Now John the Baptist was the one
41:28
S2: who prepared the way. So he was calling people to
41:32
S2: have a circumcision of heart where lives were totally changed.
41:38
S2: It was highly disruptive to the religious elite of the day.
41:43
S2: And he came in the spirit of Elijah. He was
41:46
S2: dressed like Elijah, by the way. He had animal skins
41:50
S2: for a coat and cover up, and he had a
41:53
S2: big old thick leather belt around his waist. So he
41:56
S2: came in the spirit and in the style of Elijah.
41:59
S2: And what's interesting about that, by the way, quick side
42:02
S2: note here is that God seems to set people up
42:07
S2: who have a hard message with a distinctive look. It's
42:11
S2: just that.
42:12
S3: Okay.
42:13
S4: Pretty unique.
42:14
S9: Guys.
42:14
S2: Maybe that's why God gave me orange hair.
42:16
S9: Okay, there you go.
42:17
S2: So in all seriousness, that is true. So John was arrested.
42:21
S2: Jesus came into Galilee proclaiming the gospel of God. So
42:25
S2: what did he say? This is what he said. The
42:29
S2: time is fulfilled in the kingdom of God is at hand.
42:33
S2: Repent and believe in the gospel. So you find a
42:39
S2: match set here of belief. But it's not a demonic belief.
42:44
S2: It's not a demonic belief. And it can't be because
42:47
S2: the demons believe and they tremble. James, the half brother
42:50
S2: of Jesus, says this, and we know, and I've gone
42:52
S2: through extensively all the ways that you see demons speaking,
42:57
S2: or Jesus giving insight to what the demons believe, and
43:01
S2: they're quite extensive. They believe in the deity of Jesus.
43:04
S2: They believe in the Trinity. They believe in the in
43:07
S2: the imminent return of Christ. They do believe that their
43:11
S2: doom is sealed. They. They get that. And yet they
43:15
S2: aim to deceive at every possible angle. So to have
43:20
S2: a belief in. In the deity of Christ, to have
43:25
S2: a belief that he was a good man, to even
43:28
S2: believe that he died for our sins because the demons
43:31
S2: believed that he did. That mere belief alone does not
43:36
S2: save our soul. According to Jesus, it involves repentance. Now
43:44
S2: where do we find in Scripture that Scripture interprets Scripture? Well?
43:48
S2: Jesus goes on to say that we're born unto a
43:51
S2: broad path that leads to destruction. And here's the danger,
43:56
S2: and this is why we find many will say, Lord, Lord,
43:59
S2: and he's going to say, I never knew you. Because
44:03
S2: many have tried to grab kind of a good gig,
44:06
S2: but it's a horribly dangerous gig. And the gig is
44:09
S2: that I can hold on to the gods of this age,
44:11
S2: continue down this broad path, and claim the name of Jesus.
44:16
S2: So hold on to Jesus in one hand and hold
44:19
S2: on to all my gods in another. And what are
44:22
S2: the gods of this age? Ali?
44:23
S9: The things.
44:24
S2: That can. We're really allegiant.
44:25
S9: To.
44:26
S3: No, I mean the pursuit of wealth stuff, the cares
44:31
S3: of this life. I mean, just the the busyness, the distraction.
44:35
S3: Family even.
44:36
S9: Yeah, yeah.
44:37
S2: Family. And the reason that family can't be an idol
44:42
S2: above the one true and living God is that when you.
44:46
S2: According to this, we look at the day of Pentecost
44:49
S2: when Peter preached those thousands that surrendered their heart to
44:54
S2: Jesus that day, the cost attached to it was huge.
44:57
S2: They lost inheritance. They lost family. They lost culture. They
45:01
S2: lost family potlucks. They lost land. They lost homes. They
45:08
S2: lost the protection of the broader Jewish community because they
45:12
S2: came out and said, Jesus is the Messiah. Repentance is this.
45:17
S2: What we find here is, is the descriptive repentance that
45:22
S2: comes from the verb verb metanoia. And it means to
45:27
S2: turn to change your mind, your heart, your soul, your direction,
45:34
S2: your affections, and all that you are. Over to Jesus Christ. Now,
45:41
S2: the amazing thing about this is, is that repentance takes
45:46
S2: us off this broad path onto the narrow path, and
45:49
S2: we become followers of Jesus. That's why we get the
45:53
S2: word disciple or follower. 269 times in the New Testament.
45:59
S2: And the beautiful thing about that is one of the
46:02
S2: greatest evidences. There's two, I think, great evidences of authentic faith.
46:07
S2: One is the Holy Spirit will agree with our spirit
46:10
S2: that we're children of God. The other thing is that
46:13
S2: although imperfect, everything inside us is now oriented toward. I
46:19
S2: want my life to honor God. I want no other
46:21
S2: gods before him. I want to honor Mother and father.
46:26
S2: I want to be a man or a woman who
46:30
S2: gives glory to God, who saved my life with my life.
46:36
S2: So notice how difference how different repentance is from mere belief.
46:42
S2: Notice how different, different repentance is from even of lifting
46:48
S2: a hand in the air. This is why decisionism or
46:52
S2: altar calls as we see them could be used by
46:55
S2: God to watch souls regenerated, but it can be used
46:59
S2: by Satan to deceive us into thinking something we don't have.
47:05
S2: Can you walk down an aisle, still be on the
47:07
S2: broad path that leads to destruction and have a significant
47:12
S2: in kind of interior deception that I'm somehow good with
47:17
S2: God because I did this act on a Wednesday night
47:20
S2: or a Sunday morning or at a big rally. And
47:24
S2: the answer is absolutely. So what's the hope here, Ali?
47:28
S2: What is what is the hope? How do we respond?
47:31
S3: We respond with humble belief and repentance.
47:36
S9: Yes.
47:36
S3: I mean, that's that's the response.
47:40
S2: And the amazing miracle about this is that when you
47:45
S2: realize and you hear from Jesus's words, the kingdom of
47:50
S2: God is at hand. Repent and believe in the gospel.
47:53
S2: Some of you have gotten bad information, or some of
47:58
S2: you have not had the inspiration of the Holy Spirit
48:01
S2: and the power of conviction of the Holy Spirit. But
48:06
S2: God can take the words of the gospel, and by
48:10
S2: the power of the Holy Spirit convict you of the
48:14
S2: reality that you have believed in Jesus, but not unto salvation. R.C.
48:20
S2: Sproul loves to say it, and before he went on
48:24
S2: to his reward, he said it just so simply and clearly.
48:26
S2: You can profess Christ and not possess Christ, and it's
48:32
S2: an epidemic. So there's no music playing. But I just
48:37
S2: want to ask you, could it be that the promises
48:41
S2: of God have been elusive for you because you've not
48:45
S2: been born again? Could it be that you're walking down
48:50
S2: a broad path and you're very Christianized and everything looks Christian,
48:55
S2: but you're still walking with your back to God. See,
49:00
S2: repentance solves a problem of your natural birth, and the
49:05
S2: new birth miracle turns you around. And it changes your mind,
49:10
S2: your affection, your direction, your allegiance. You have a new leader.
49:14
S2: It's no longer you, but you. Surrender all you are
49:19
S2: to Jesus Christ. And the powerful thing is, is that
49:25
S2: in this moment, the Holy Spirit is speaking into your heart.
49:30
S2: Right now. I'm talking to you saying you've not been
49:34
S2: born again, but today is your day of salvation. Salvation
49:38
S2: is at hand. And you might say, I got nothing
49:42
S2: to offer Jesus, Carl. And to that we'd say, what? Ali?
49:46
S3: Perfect.
49:47
S9: Yeah. Perfect. Perfect.
49:49
S3: That's exactly true of all of us. The wealthiest person
49:54
S3: in the world. Excuse me? The most successful. Yes. Go ahead.
49:57
S3: Take it.
49:57
S9: Carl.
49:58
S2: Yeah. The most. The most noble. With your actions that
50:05
S2: you attempt to be. No amount of your fancy footwork
50:08
S2: can save you. But only full abandonment to Jesus Christ.
50:14
S2: You can't call him savior until you've called him Lord.
50:20
S2: But if today the Spirit of God is calling you,
50:22
S2: let the cry of your soul be. I'm a sinner.
50:25
S2: Can you say that, friend? I need a Savior. His
50:29
S2: name is Jesus. And today. Surrender and repent. Give over
50:38
S2: all you are to Jesus Christ. Leaving behind your dreams,
50:43
S2: your aspirations, your hopes, and all the world that you've
50:46
S2: concocted on your own. And give it all to Jesus today. Friend,
50:50
S2: he wants to save you through and through and give
50:53
S2: you abundant life. If that's the cry of your soul
50:57
S2: today and you've never had such a dramatic surrender to
51:01
S2: Jesus right now, text the word new to 800 555, 7898.
51:07
S2: We're going to help you text new right now to
51:10
S2: 805 557898. You are free.
51:18
S1: Whether it's in the pool or on the stage. She's
51:22
S1: making a splash. Super Di is in the crew. You're
51:26
S1: listening to Carl and crew.
51:28
S2: Are playing a quick jeopardy here. Ali, I'm going to
51:31
S2: give you the answer. You give me the question. This
51:34
S2: is almost impossible, but I'm going to try it.
51:36
S3: Okay.
51:37
S2: Page 47. That's the. That's the answer. Page 47.
51:44
S3: Okay. Um.
51:46
S10: Oh. Uh, Jonathan. Jonathan's cheating.
51:50
S3: I'm guessing it has to do with a book.
51:52
S10: Jonathan's gene.
51:53
S3: So let's see what's on page 47.
51:57
S11: Can you pick me up?
51:58
S4: I figured it out. I don't know what's on page 47,
52:00
S4: but I can find out quick.
52:02
S10: Oh, man.
52:03
S3: Okay. I think I got it.
52:05
S10: Yeah, we had.
52:06
S2: A text come in here, and it's a good one.
52:08
S2: Is there a way Carl can make a list of
52:09
S2: those phrases that people, uh, are told that may leave them? What?
52:15
S2: What they're going on to say here is that may,
52:16
S2: may leave them with an illusion of salvation. I'm talking
52:20
S2: about those phrases this person says that people use that
52:23
S2: are self-centered, uh, having to do with becoming a follower
52:26
S2: of Christ, which may not necessarily lead them there at all.
52:31
S2: So page 47 is the answer. I got a whole
52:33
S2: list of them there.
52:33
S3: Yeah. This this is contained in the Unstoppable gospel. For example,
52:38
S3: ask Jesus into your heart. Make Jesus your personal Savior.
52:41
S3: Pray this prayer, walk the aisle, come forward, and other
52:45
S3: versions of that. And again, reiterating that you're not saying
52:50
S3: that those moments can't lead to genuine salvation in some people.
52:55
S3: They can't. People have walked an aisle and genuinely been saved.
53:01
S2: And some people have raised a hand when no one's
53:03
S2: looking around and they were born again. One of the
53:05
S2: most recent stories that we heard was Michael Ray Delic.
53:09
S3: Yes. Yes.
53:10
S2: So he was he heard the gospel preached. Now, here's
53:13
S2: what's unique about Michael's story. He was such an angry, uh, Jewish,
53:19
S2: non messianic Jewish man who argued with his mom, who
53:24
S2: became a dear saint and follower of Jesus, that every
53:28
S2: intention of him was to try to pry Jesus from
53:31
S2: her hands as the way, the truth, and the life. Well,
53:35
S2: as God would have it, he's sitting there after some
53:38
S2: study and some hearing some truth, and then he's at
53:40
S2: this event, and somebody gave the gospel and said, if
53:43
S2: you're ready to give your life to Jesus. And he's like,
53:46
S2: the last thing, I am not going to put my
53:48
S2: hand in the air, but the Spirit of God so
53:51
S2: powerfully moved upon him that almost involuntarily he stuck his
53:57
S2: hand in the air and said, I've got to surrender
54:00
S2: my life to this Messiah.
54:01
S3: Right? So that's an example. And it's so it's entirely possible,
54:06
S3: but it's also possible that any of those things could
54:10
S3: lead to deception big time.
54:13
S2: And this is why we have so many people today
54:17
S2: who have done in an emotional moment, maybe with some
54:21
S2: peer pressure, maybe because who doesn't want to avoid hell?
54:26
S2: You will have an intellectual assent. And maybe thinking that
54:30
S2: if I walk this out, the act of walking the
54:34
S2: aisle is somehow salvific, right?
54:36
S3: Yeah. And so the question that just came in, what
54:38
S3: are some of the phrases we can say to our
54:40
S3: unbelieving friends so that when they make a proclamation of Christ.
54:44
S3: It is authentic. So I think the the quick clarification
54:47
S3: on this is that there's not it's not about a
54:49
S3: set phrase that needs to be said to like, guarantee
54:53
S3: that it's the real deal.
54:55
S10: No.
54:55
S2: And it's it's this is soulish. This is deep. Here again, we've,
55:00
S2: we've taken authentic faith and we've, we've brought it to
55:03
S2: the surface of superficiality. We've tried to codify it with
55:10
S2: words that are said, actions that happen when. What do
55:14
S2: we find in the sermon on the Mount? The first
55:16
S2: phrase out of Jesus's mouth is, blessed are the poor
55:19
S2: in spirit. Coming to a point of realization that you're
55:24
S2: spiritually bankrupt. Not, by the way, we're all born spiritually bankrupt,
55:30
S2: but blessed are the poor in spirit. Happy are those
55:34
S2: who realize I have nothing apart from God. So it's
55:39
S2: that realization that positions you for repentance. And. And that's
55:45
S2: a beautiful thing. Well, we are going to be breaking
55:48
S2: this down and giving hope. We are going to talk
55:52
S2: about the lie that has left so many people in
55:55
S2: churches around the West, in church, but dead in their sin,
56:02
S2: and people who have been in church and still have
56:06
S2: a sense of, I must be okay with God because
56:08
S2: I was involved in a youth group, I prayed a prayer.
56:13
S2: This deception is enormous, guys. It is a crisis in
56:18
S2: the West and beyond. It is a crisis. And I've submitted,
56:24
S2: I believe one of the biggest mission fields we have
56:26
S2: is inside the walls of our church buildings every weekend.
56:29
S2: Really believe that. So what are we going to do
56:33
S2: about it? I've banner ad here for the Unstoppable Gospel Conference.
56:39
S2: It's going to be live and online all around the globe.
56:44
S2: And Ali, you got the details, sister.
56:46
S3: November 14th. It's a Saturday, so a couple of hours
56:49
S3: if you can do in person. If you're in the
56:50
S3: Chicagoland area, you're invited. Grab up those seats though, because
56:54
S3: they are limited. Live stream unlimited. You can be wherever
56:58
S3: you are in the world. If you've got an internet connection,
57:01
S3: you can log on and be a part of it
57:03
S3: as well. We want to send you an intro to
57:05
S3: the book, so if you don't have your own copy,
57:07
S3: you can get a taste of even what we've been
57:10
S3: talking about today. And then a QR code to get
57:12
S3: signed up. You got to sign up whether you're doing
57:14
S3: in person or online. So just text intro to 805 557898.
57:21
S3: Intro to 805 557898.
57:24
S10: Oh my goodness.
57:26
S2: My heart's bursting with joy right now. Imagine what could happen. Ali.
57:31
S2: Just think about this. If we got really clear with
57:36
S2: the gospel holy moments in our weekend services holy moments
57:41
S2: where we're drawing people back to the issue of repentance
57:45
S2: and transformation and the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit
57:50
S2: and the potentiality that many will say on that day, Lord, Lord,
57:54
S2: and he's going to say, I never knew you and
57:56
S2: given hope and given clarity. What a great mission field
58:00
S2: it is.
58:01
S3: Ali, truly, we want to get you there. Just text
58:04
S3: intro to 805 557898.
58:07
S10: Yeah.
58:08
S2: That's it guys. And I hope to see you there
58:11
S2: either live or online. This is Leanna Crawford.
58:16
S1: From the oil rig to the pulpit. Carl is in
58:20
S1: the crew. You're listening to Carl and crew.
58:23
S2: We're tackling the church near and far, and there's no
58:27
S2: one who has a better handle on the church that
58:30
S2: is far away, but should be near to our hearts.
58:33
S2: Then our guest right now, Todd Nettleton. Wow. Uh. My goodness,
58:37
S2: we hear these stories and it's heartbreaking, isn't it? What
58:41
S2: our brothers and sisters are going through.
58:42
S3: Yeah, it really is. And coming up this Sunday is
58:45
S3: International Day of Prayer for Persecuted Christians. That's this Sunday.
58:50
S3: Don't know if your church is doing anything for it,
58:52
S3: but we want to make sure that you're aware of it.
58:54
S3: Todd Nettleton with the voice of the martyrs. He's the
58:56
S3: vice president for message and the chief storyteller for voice
59:01
S3: of the martyrs. Give us a fresh story. Tell us
59:03
S3: what what needs to be fresh on our hearts and
59:05
S3: minds as we prepare for Sunday.
59:07
S12: Well, let me give you a bad news and a
59:10
S12: good news story. So bad news. Just last Friday in Jordan,
59:13
S12: southern Jordan, a Christian funeral was attacked by terrorists. Nine
59:18
S12: people killed, 40 people injured. Uh, it was an attack
59:22
S12: by apparently jihadis. They they still at this point, they're
59:26
S12: not saying, yes, they were connected with this group or
59:28
S12: that group, but they certainly were motivated by jihadist ideology.
59:32
S12: This was a Greek Orthodox church, so a visible church
59:36
S12: in southern Jordan. Here's the maybe good news in that story.
59:40
S12: They've already arrested the three men who were involved in
59:43
S12: the attack. Jordan actually declared three days of national mourning
59:47
S12: over these Christians who had been killed. Um, so the
59:50
S12: response was very swift. Uh, but you still have a
59:53
S12: church that's been attacked. You still have families who have
59:56
S12: lost loved ones. Let me tell you a good story. Uh,
1:00:00
S12: our episode of voice of the Martyrs Radio this weekend
1:00:02
S12: tells the story of a pastor in India who was arrested.
1:00:06
S12: He was beaten for seven straight days in the prison.
1:00:10
S12: But then things changed. It happened to be Good Friday.
1:00:13
S12: And the warden said, you know, I respect all religions.
1:00:16
S12: I know tomorrow's Good Friday. Would you I know you're
1:00:19
S12: a pastor. Would you stand up and share with the
1:00:21
S12: prisoners what Good Friday means? And so literally, after beating
1:00:26
S12: him for days on end, he gave him this opportunity
1:00:30
S12: to preach on Good Friday. And, you know, if if
1:00:32
S12: you share Good Friday, you have to share Easter Sunday.
1:00:35
S12: So he basically got to give a salvation sermon inside
1:00:39
S12: the prison. Uh, one of the most amazing stories I've
1:00:42
S12: ever heard.
1:00:43
S2: Todd Nettleton is our guest. That's right out of the
1:00:46
S2: book of acts. Todd.
1:00:47
S12: It is.
1:00:49
S2: My goodness. So, you know, you mentioned Jordan, and that
1:00:53
S2: shocked me because that country has done everything they can
1:00:57
S2: to remain as neutral as they can be, and they're
1:01:00
S2: not even able to withstand this. We're seeing an uptick
1:01:04
S2: of violence against Christ's followers. Or are we? What's going
1:01:09
S2: on globally? You've got the numbers.
1:01:11
S12: You know, I think, yes, we're seeing an uptick in violence.
1:01:14
S12: But the the good side of that coin is part
1:01:17
S12: of the reason for that is because the church is
1:01:19
S12: growing in these places. It's growing in Iran. It's growing
1:01:22
S12: in the Middle East, it's growing in North Africa. And
1:01:25
S12: so there are more Christians, therefore, there are more targets
1:01:28
S12: for persecution. And I think, yes, it's increasing. But part
1:01:32
S12: of that is because the church is increasing as well.
1:01:35
S3: So, Todd, when we think about persecution, what is it
1:01:40
S3: always what we're expecting? Is it always the the threat
1:01:44
S3: of violence or can persecution take on other forms?
1:01:47
S12: It can certainly take on other forms. And I think honestly,
1:01:51
S12: I think some of the hardest persecution is that which
1:01:53
S12: comes from your own family. Uh, the video we did
1:01:56
S12: for this year's Day of Prayer for Persecuted Christians is
1:02:00
S12: about a man named Bassam on the Arabian Peninsula, and
1:02:04
S12: his first line of persecution was his wife kicked him
1:02:07
S12: out of the house. She wouldn't let him see their daughters.
1:02:09
S12: She basically cut him off from the family. Now it
1:02:12
S12: went on from there. Her brothers beat him repeatedly. His
1:02:15
S12: own father disowned him. He lost his job. Eventually he
1:02:19
S12: was arrested. But that first line of persecution wasn't the government.
1:02:23
S12: It wasn't the police. It was his own family members
1:02:25
S12: coming after him.
1:02:27
S2: You know, one of the things that Ali and I
1:02:28
S2: are stunned by here is that we constantly hear these stories,
1:02:30
S2: but we don't hear that there's prayers or an attempt
1:02:34
S2: to necessarily escape the situation. I mean, obviously, in some cases,
1:02:38
S2: the wise move is to either go underground or to
1:02:43
S2: maybe move regions if you can. But the vast majority
1:02:47
S2: stay and they ask for prayer. That's I guess that's
1:02:51
S2: evidence of the radical, transforming power of Christ inside of
1:02:55
S2: a man or a woman, isn't it? Todd.
1:02:57
S12: It is such evidence of that. And even, you know,
1:03:00
S12: in the video, Bassam lists off all these terrible things
1:03:03
S12: that have happened to him. And he says, but I
1:03:04
S12: can't stop talking about Jesus. So it's like, I, I
1:03:07
S12: know this is going to happen. I know I'm going
1:03:09
S12: to be persecuted more, but I'm not going to stop doing.
1:03:12
S12: I'm not going to stop sharing what God has done
1:03:14
S12: in my life. And, you know, their prayer request. And
1:03:17
S12: the first thing persecuted Christians ask us to do is
1:03:19
S12: to pray. But as you say, it's not a prayer
1:03:22
S12: that they won't be persecuted or that they'll be able
1:03:25
S12: to come to the West and be safe. It is
1:03:27
S12: a prayer that they'll be faithful in the midst of
1:03:30
S12: the persecution, and I. I am so convicted by that.
1:03:33
S12: They're not praying to get away from it. They're praying,
1:03:35
S12: God use me in the midst of it.
1:03:38
S3: Todd, as you've collected so many stories over your 25
1:03:41
S3: years of ministry with voice of the martyrs, how has
1:03:44
S3: it changed you?
1:03:46
S12: Uh, boy, we could we could talk all day about that,
1:03:48
S12: but but I think one of the most foundational changes
1:03:52
S12: is how I think about the scripture. I don't want
1:03:55
S12: to let a day go by without me spending time
1:03:57
S12: in God's Word, because I have met Christians who say,
1:04:00
S12: you know, I pray ten years that I might someday
1:04:05
S12: have a copy of God's Word of my very own.
1:04:07
S12: And here, you know, I have multiple translations on my
1:04:10
S12: phone in my pocket. I have multiple copies on the shelf.
1:04:13
S12: But if I don't pick it up and read it,
1:04:15
S12: what am I even doing? I'm no better off than
1:04:18
S12: the Christian who can't get access to God's Word. So
1:04:20
S12: I think that's one of the really foundational changes. Another
1:04:23
S12: one I would say, is just the expectation that God
1:04:27
S12: is going to do something. Uh, our brothers and sisters
1:04:29
S12: who have to live in daily reliance on God. They.
1:04:33
S12: They know when they wake up in the morning, God. If.
1:04:35
S12: If you don't come through today, I'm not going to
1:04:37
S12: make it. I may not make it home tonight. They
1:04:40
S12: live in that kind of daily reliance and that sense
1:04:42
S12: of expectation. Because when you do that and God comes
1:04:45
S12: through on day one, then when you wake up on
1:04:47
S12: day two, you have that sense of expectation. Wow, did
1:04:51
S12: you see what God did yesterday? I can't wait to
1:04:52
S12: see what he's going to do today. And you do
1:04:54
S12: that year after year. And it just builds this sense
1:04:57
S12: of expectation. Some of that has rubbed off on me.
1:05:00
S12: I'm not saying I'm at that level, but some of
1:05:02
S12: that has rubbed off on me that I know God's
1:05:04
S12: going to come through. I know God has a plan
1:05:06
S12: no matter what the situation is.
1:05:08
S10: You know, I.
1:05:09
S2: Got a weird question. This is weird, but with the
1:05:13
S2: excess of phones, people are interconnected and they see things
1:05:18
S2: and even the persecuted church sees things. Have you heard
1:05:22
S2: of what their response is to the charlatans that are
1:05:25
S2: doing health, wealth or prosperity or liberation theology that God
1:05:29
S2: wants to literally deliver you from this. And, and because
1:05:35
S2: they don't, they aren't immune to seeing these things that's got. I,
1:05:40
S2: if I was in that position and I saw some
1:05:42
S2: of that stuff, I might even get a little bit
1:05:45
S2: angry about that because that's not the gospel that they embrace,
1:05:49
S2: nor the the way the gospel is lived out in
1:05:51
S2: their life.
1:05:53
S12: It is a it is a hard question. And a
1:05:55
S12: lot of persecuted Christians are fairly isolated. So they don't
1:05:59
S12: necessarily have all of that knowledge of all the different
1:06:03
S12: streams of, you know, Christianity and what different teachers are saying.
1:06:07
S12: The the thing I would say is I think fellowship
1:06:10
S12: with our persecuted brothers and sisters is the antidote to that,
1:06:14
S12: that prosperity gospel. It's the antidote to that teaching that, oh,
1:06:18
S12: if you just live for Jesus, everything in your life
1:06:20
S12: is going to be great. And, and I think their
1:06:23
S12: gospel is one of the things that happens when you
1:06:26
S12: expect persecution. When you expect trouble and it comes, you're
1:06:30
S12: not knocked off by it. It's like, oh yeah, this
1:06:32
S12: is what we thought was going to happen and now
1:06:34
S12: it's happening. If you come to faith with the idea
1:06:36
S12: that Jesus is going to make my life so much
1:06:38
S12: better right now, and then hardship comes and it will come.
1:06:43
S12: When it comes, you're like, wait a minute. I thought
1:06:45
S12: God was going to take care of all this. I
1:06:46
S12: thought I wouldn't have any of these kind of problems.
1:06:48
S12: So it really knocks you off course. Whereas our persecuted
1:06:52
S12: brothers and sisters, they expect trouble, they expect persecution. And
1:06:56
S12: so when it happens, they're just like, yep, this is
1:06:58
S12: what they told me was going to happen. It doesn't
1:07:00
S12: really faze them as much as it sometimes fazes us.
1:07:04
S3: Todd Nettleton with us right now, voice of the martyrs.
1:07:06
S3: It is the International Day of Prayer for Persecuted Christians.
1:07:09
S3: As we mentioned this Sunday, they have some resources available,
1:07:13
S3: a free digital resource kit that you can grab before Sunday.
1:07:17
S3: Just text voice to 805 557898, text voice to 805 557898.