Latest / The STA Clinician Podcast / Ep239 'Massage 2021: The Year Of Change?' - Reflection with Stevie Barr & Tris Attenborough

Transcript

Ep239 'Massage 2021: The Year Of Change?' - Reflection with Stevie Barr & Tris Attenborough · The STA Clinician Podcast

0:00
Music.
0:10
Live. Hey people, how are you doing? My name is Matt Phillips,
0:13
co-ediverunchoutlive.com and as always this episode is being recorded live 8
0:17
o'clock Tuesday on the Sports Therapy Association YouTube channel.
0:21
We have reached the fifth episode of our new reflection series on the Sports
0:26
Therapy Association podcast in which I invite a listener or listeners of the
0:30
podcast onto the show to chat with me about a past episode of the STA podcast
0:34
that has have particularly affected their daily practice as a soft tissue therapist.
0:40
Before we continue, I must say thank you to my guest last week,
0:44
Daniel Williams, who reflected on episode 64, Motivational Interviewing for
0:49
Client Communication, recorded back in August 2021 with special guest Dr. Gary Mendoza.
0:54
Daniel has taken over from Dr. Gary Mendoza since that episode as tutor of his MI course.
1:00
So this episode is a great opportunity for therapists interested
1:03
in developing their communication skills and as always
1:06
it's available on youtube if you want to watch the video or you
1:09
can listen to it on any popular podcast app
1:12
right so tonight's show
1:15
oh before i say that if i'm going to say this for the last time now
1:18
i've been reminding people and thank you to everyone who is offering to
1:21
come on the show but if you listen to the podcast or you're in the live lounge
1:24
tonight and you'd like to be a guest on the show to chat about
1:26
a past episode then all you need to do is reach out to me on
1:29
social media at lunch at live or at uk underscore sta and we can discuss it
1:34
even if you're a little bit worried about it and not quite sure which would
1:37
be totally understandable i've had a couple of conversations with people 10-15
1:41
minutes and at the end of it both of them have gone yep i could do that that's
1:45
fine so it's normal to be a bit nervous but i.
1:48
Haven't met anyone yet who's felt worse for doing it some people have looked
1:52
worse for doing it but felt worse none of them it is quite confidence building
1:56
it's great for your business it's good for networking.
1:58
So if you're interested, all you need to make sure is you've got a reliable
2:01
quality internet connection, Steve.
2:04
And yeah, plugged into modem is best. And obviously a webcam and a mic.
2:07
So if you're interested, email me and that's what you need. And we can chat about it.
2:13
Right. Tonight. What is on the show tonight? What are we reflecting about?
2:17
Well, back in 2021, the Massage Collective was Anna Maria Matsieri,
2:23
SD School, and Becky DeMott Horton and Matt Scarsbrook, whose names will probably
2:27
ring bells with a lot of our listeners.
2:29
They started a podcast at the time called Massage Matters under the ever-caring
2:33
wing of the PhysioMatters team.
2:35
And the three of them were tackling topics. I wrote down a few of the topics
2:39
here. They're all available on podcast apps and the Massage Matters podcast.
2:43
They had things like episode 16, the beginning of the end of level three,
2:47
which was fascinating to look back then. Even then they were thinking,
2:49
is this the end of level three?
2:51
Episode 17 was Massage Matters, but does specificity. Not easy to say.
2:55
Episode 27 was What is Treatment? with guest Ben Cormack. There's some really
2:59
interesting educators in there.
3:01
And then episode 33, Making Shit up with Greg Labord, obviously.
3:05
Typical Greg and a great title, which I'm sure Matt Scarsbrook encouraged and
3:08
delighted in typing up. So there's some really good conversations back there,
3:12
but that was back in 2021.
3:13
And I encourage you to go and listen to them.
3:15
It was at the time such a healthy and advanced debate that I had Anna Maria
3:19
and Matt Scarsbrook on the Sports Therapy Association podcast in episode 74,
3:25
in an episode which we entitled Massage 2021, The Year of Change.
3:29
Becky couldn't make it, unfortunately. She was on the train.
3:31
But it was a great conversation about how they were reflecting themselves on
3:35
2020 to 2021 with regards to manual therapy
3:39
and massage and education and understanding and that sort of stuff.
3:43
So I've been looking forward to this since they agreed to do it. Tonight.
3:46
Three and a half years later, in episode 239 of the Sports Therapy Association podcast,
3:52
I'm going to be joined very shortly by massage and movement therapist,
3:56
Stevie Barr of Fit Through Life and Tristan Attenborough of Move Massage Pro,
4:01
who will be reflecting on that episode from three and a half years ago.
4:06
Answering questions like, has the delivery of sports massage improved in the last few years?
4:14
Are practitioners now more evidence-informed?
4:17
Are patients' outcomes better as a result? And more.
4:21
They were the three we put into the advert to get your juices flowing and your
4:25
thoughts circulating around your head. So there we go.
4:27
If you have joined us live, thank you everybody for joining us live.
4:30
We really appreciate it, then do feel free to ask questions.
4:33
If you ask a question, I can bring you up here on the screen with your lovely photo.
4:37
Cecily Hisop, for example, says, hello, my lovelies, in that kind of accent.
4:40
Nikki Mansfield says, buenos tardes, amigos, in the Spanish language.
4:45
Sir Glenn Murphy, MBE, evening Sir Glenn, says, hey, evening all.
4:48
Sarah Jones is in here, says evening peeps. Loads of people coming in.
4:51
Wow, there seems to be quite a few fan people here, and rightfully so for Tris
4:55
and Stevie, very popular members of the manual therapy and movement industry.
5:02
Gary Benson, founder of the STA, is here as well.
5:05
And Daniel from last week is here to support his chums as well.
5:08
Thanks, Daniel. Great episode last week. Appreciate you giving your time for that. Right.
5:11
I've left them in the lobby for long enough. I'm very excited about tonight's episode.
5:16
So let's bring them up. Reflecting tonight, Stevie Barr of Fit Through Life
5:21
and Tristan of Move Massage Pro.
5:25
Music.
5:39
Yeah, see what happened was, you put us in the lobby and my nose spontaneously started bleeding.
5:44
I just sat here, sniffed, I felt a drip, and I just scared.
5:49
If you're listening to a podcast, this is now probably worth going over to YouTube
5:53
to see what a grown man with tissue up his nose looks like.
5:56
Right, Trish and Steve, thank you so much. I hope you're okay,
5:58
Trish. You okay? I'm absolutely fine.
6:03
Thank you for inviting me as well. I was very chock in your ass. Absolutely.
6:07
I'm so excited about it. really good you too
6:10
stevie thank you brilliant okay let's get into
6:13
it so for people who aren't aware of you guys stevie
6:17
maybe we'll start with you could you give listeners a little two-minute summary
6:20
of who you are where you are and what you do uh oh
6:24
i'm stevie bar i the owner i
6:27
suppose of sit through life which makes me
6:30
a massage and movement therapist which i've been
6:33
doing for about three four years based up
6:36
in Glasgow yeah just trying to make my way in
6:39
the retired world by bringing
6:43
massaging movement to the people very slowly fantastic and that's in Glasgow
6:48
is it yep yeah just right about Glasgow just outside so it's not too bad fantastic
6:55
and we should mention as well that you also run and host the Scottish therapist group on Facebook.
7:01
Yeah, I mean, we've got over 500 members now,
7:05
so that's pretty decent We've managed to organise a couple of bits
7:08
of quality CPD Your good self is coming up to the Frozen North later on in the
7:14
year Which we're very excited about and very grateful about too And we had Greg
7:18
Lehman last year come over in December So we're trying to get a little bit more
7:23
I've still got some thoughts about who we could get out So yeah,
7:27
That's great. No, I'm looking forward to that. Calendar. Yeah,
7:29
I'm looking forward to it.
7:31
Leslie's already told me a cake shop I have to go to just down the road from
7:34
McLaren's Leisure Centre, which is where we're going to be. So yeah,
7:37
brilliant. Good to have you along, Stevie.
7:40
Tris, people who aren't aware of you. Okay, two minutes. Right.
7:44
I qualified in 2014 as sports and remedial massage therapist.
7:50
And through the whole first year of practice, I was in chaos because I had a
7:54
lot of doubts about what I was taught.
7:56
Then I went on a bender of reading and the evidence of reading research.
8:01
Then I went on CPD courses with the likes of Greg Lehman, Adam Meekins,
8:06
Mick Thacker, Tom Goom, Mike Stewart, Peter O'Sullivan twice, all the like that.
8:14
And so I definitely found out that I was taught an awful lot of bollocks.
8:18
And then i did a master's degree in
8:21
pain management from cardiff university and
8:25
i was and i wrote up the dissertation thesis in lockdown
8:29
which was the hardest thing i've ever done
8:32
in my life because when you don't have contact with
8:35
other people and all you have is this thing your cognitive
8:38
abilities dive and i kicked it
8:42
over the line in god extinction and that was about pain
8:45
neuroscience education and yeah i
8:48
just worked for myself for the last 10 years work now completely from
8:51
home i've got a room set up and i've got lots of gin kit
8:54
which i love hoarding and yeah and i
8:57
just treat people as i find them amazing thanks so much so two hands-on therapists
9:02
here have been through the wars with studies they've realized that a lot of
9:05
what they were told has been questionable to say the least sometimes and now
9:09
you're both kind of very much involved in trying to help other therapists avoid
9:14
some of the pitfalls which you had.
9:16
So yeah, really useful. I'm really glad that you're both coming along tonight
9:19
to reflect on this episode. So.
9:22
As I said in the introduction, that episode 74, yeah, that was interesting because
9:27
it was Matt and Anna Maria both reflecting on the year. And it sounded quite positive.
9:33
They were looking between when they started with the Touch Matters podcast,
9:36
2020, June, I think it was, up to 2021 where the podcast was in.
9:40
And they sounded kind of quite positive. I remember they were saying that kind of four years prior,
9:46
I think it was Matt was teaching somewhere and trying to
9:49
talk about how you know it's probably more to do with sensory input
9:52
when you put laying your hands and somebody and doing stuff rather than changing
9:55
the structure and he remembers four years prior so back in kind
9:58
of 2017 or something just shocked faces and
10:01
kind of lift doors closing and too much
10:03
too soon kind of thing but he felt in 2021 people were
10:07
starting to get it and were slightly more
10:10
open-minded and maybe not so fearful and ready
10:13
to listen so i'm interested tristan fast
10:17
forward now to 2025 do you
10:20
think in your experience that people are
10:22
or manual therapists are a bit more open-minded and okay
10:26
to hear things like that some some i
10:29
think there was i think you know it was a unique moment wasn't it
10:32
because it was a it was that post-lockdown era where we'd had much more communication
10:36
with one another do we not let's go to work well actually though we did see
10:40
about divergence didn't we because there was there was a cohort that believed
10:43
actually we're healthcare professionals and we should be seeing people and they
10:47
are fairly frightening individuals.
10:49
And and then there was the rest of us that were just so so
10:53
i think probably for people like me who had to cross the chasm if you like because
10:58
someone this is something matt and i have talked about scars and i've talked
11:01
about was that he didn't have to cross the chasm because he was anna maria trained
11:05
so he had the good stuff where i did and so having kind of been on my own uh thinking.
11:14
What's the new narrative how do we reframe this there
11:17
was a there was there was a moment where we had some clarity
11:20
and i think quite a few of us out there who vaguely
11:24
knew each other were of one voice which was
11:27
i think quite beautiful i think that episode hit
11:31
the nail it hit the zeitgeist i think
11:35
but i rather feel things have not moved on as well as we might have quote i
11:42
think i think there's a kind of a cohort maybe it's 20 maybe it's 10 i don't
11:46
know that are completely happy with us you know we can be evidence-based practitioners,
11:53
we can provide a really great service and we don't have to make up any mechanical
11:58
reasons you know we can dump all the old narratives and we can all we can all speak of one voice,
12:03
but i don't think it's the majority i can expand on that in a bit if you like but,
12:09
so that would be my my short answer would be there
12:13
are those of us who are already of that voice are still in that voice and i
12:17
think very few trickle across i think interesting so it was a great moment but
12:23
things haven't it's been hasn't been exponentially increasing like happy days
12:28
since then it's been kind of plateaued and maybe even kind of reversal of it yeah yeah Interesting.
12:32
Stevie, are you of the same belief?
12:36
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, my journey, I suppose, is slightly different
12:41
from Tris, wherein I came to massage, a sports massage, the wrong way around.
12:48
It wasn't something that I wanted to be. I didn't realize that I could do that until later on.
12:54
So I came at it from reading through pain science and trying to understand better
13:00
movement, and all that kind of thing.
13:05
And then, you know, sports massage was the thing that was going to allow me
13:10
to do what I wanted to do, I guess.
13:12
So by the time I was qualifying and starting off, you know, sort of 2020 into
13:18
2021. So it was during the COVID months.
13:24
And then obviously joining the FTA and looking at the podcasts,
13:28
which was great. You know, lots of positivity.
13:32
And I'd already been on the Massage Collective as well sometime before that,
13:37
so I'd seen all their stuff.
13:38
So when I saw that one, I thought, you know, this is, they're speaking my language here.
13:44
You know, they're very positive about collaboration within the industry.
13:48
Matt, I think it was, it mentioned that therapeutic touches getting much more
13:53
noticed than it was before.
13:55
And, you know, we have started to get the message out there that people shouldn't fear what we're saying,
14:05
I guess, that, you know, we can look at the narrative that we had before,
14:10
take a step back, evaluate it, realize it's got faults,
14:14
correct those faults and move on.
14:16
And, you know, our clients can still benefit from that.
14:19
And as Maasai therapists, you know, we had a fantastic opportunity to grab the
14:25
bull by the horns, I guess.
14:27
But one thing I wrote down, because I was a good boy, I watched the episode
14:31
again and I took a lot of notes, as Tristan did.
14:34
And I wrote, right at the very end, we're moving in the right direction.
14:39
But if we don't bring on new therapists fed on the latest narrative,
14:46
then we're still swimming against the tide. And I think we are.
14:50
Because in terms of courses and what new therapists are being taught,
14:57
we're still where we are. And I've got first-hand experience of that.
15:02
And also, as Tristan had rightly said, there is a little cohort,
15:06
there's a bunch of people there who are, you know.
15:11
Strongly, positively behind the message that we're trying to get across that,
15:15
you know, let's just take a step back from this, re-evaluate it and take it forward.
15:20
But it's a small number.
15:23
It hasn't really gained that much traction, I don't think.
15:27
Can I tell you what, let me expand on why I think, what I think.
15:30
And I think it's important if we anchor ourselves to some epistemological weakness
15:36
here, that we've got our own wee perceptions of what's going on.
15:40
And a lot of that is kind of through the Facebook.
15:43
So we kind of know, you know, it's when you go on courses that we don't see
15:46
that much, you know, or many of us have that much of an opportunity to try and
15:51
see what's really happening.
15:52
But i kind of think of it in terms of well
15:55
we know we're in an unregulated industry and
15:59
i and i take on fully gary benson's argument in one of the previous episodes
16:04
where he said you know regulation is not a silver bullet you think it is i think
16:07
it's absolutely right so we've got a legacy problem we've got masses of schools
16:13
teaching masses of rubbish we absolutely know that's the case and.
16:18
One of the ways we see that expressed is in some of the massage groups that we tend to lurk in.
16:27
And I think we've actually seen this year, I feel like a glut more than usual,
16:32
of someone comes in and says, how do you deal with this pathology?
16:38
And from what they've said, from what they've described, they absolutely have
16:43
not been trained to properly assess and treat X. It's obvious.
16:48
Now, for some reason in these groups, no one actually says that.
16:51
So one thing that doesn't get to say, you have not been trained properly.
16:55
And what happens is there'll be a group of us, it's about me and a dozen others,
17:00
try to politely say, you need to refer, here's why you need to refer.
17:04
And what they do is ignore all of those comments.
17:08
And then the bellends come in and go, right, what you need to do is you need
17:11
to dry needle that and do that.
17:12
And then you go, oh, this is, and it's frightening.
17:15
I mean, we had an absolute corker earlier this year where we had a level three,
17:20
not long qualified, was doing neck manipulations and was asking about,
17:26
and everyone just shat a brick.
17:29
I went, wow, you shouldn't be doing that. You shouldn't be doing.
17:32
But what we're seeing, I think, quite consistently from early new grads coming
17:37
in is they don't know their red flags.
17:40
They don't know the contraindications. They don't know their scope of practice.
17:45
And they don't clearly know when to refer and one
17:48
of the i mean anna maria does that cracking
17:51
little three-hour course on the red flags now that's
17:55
great but arguably it's also testament to
17:59
something that should be absolute front center in everyone's training so i do
18:04
think we have a safety issue and i think what happens is these facebook groups
18:10
are somewhat enabling I think they are enabling really bad practice because
18:15
I think we have another little problem that goes along with this,
18:17
which I might just nudge you on this point a little bit, Matt.
18:22
Is we keep saying the phrase imposter syndrome.
18:25
And I think we need to be a bit thoughtful about that because that feeling you
18:30
get when you think, I don't think I can do this and I'm not sure I'm up to this
18:34
and all that, that's just a normal,
18:36
that's just, that's a confident self-esteem, that's
18:39
life that's that's any time of life you
18:42
budge out your comfort zone you're going to have that hopefully all of
18:45
your life okay imposter syndrome is much more specific it is when you feel like
18:50
an imposter but you've absolutely demonstrated capability hopefully with rigorous
18:56
assessment in that field and you feel like that's what imposter syndrome is
19:00
the problem is there are a lot of therapists,
19:03
I think you need to raise your game.
19:06
And if we mollycoddle those therapists
19:09
and say, oh, it's just imposter syndrome, you'll get through it.
19:12
We are doing them a massive disservice and every client they ever see.
19:19
He paints a good picture I'm not going to lie You nail certain things They're
19:25
just really really well I mean I think for me What is evident in the groups
19:31
a lot Is that people are answering Questions,
19:35
They shouldn't be answering at all If somebody comes along and says Just as your example,
19:40
ABC has happened, what do I do And then people pile in And you've got the two or three,
19:48
naysayers that say, you know, ignore everybody else's answers.
19:52
They're doing it with the best of intentions, but they're fundamentally wrong in what they're doing.
19:57
Because they've never met the patient, they've never touched the patient,
20:01
and they don't know the patient's history.
20:03
And you've got people out there giving kind of detailed answers about what you should do.
20:11
And as an industry, you know, that is fundamentally bad.
20:17
I mean, it's very bad as you said, Tris. Yeah.
20:23
I was going to say something I took from the episode as well and that is beautiful.
20:30
I mean, we want to be better recognised.
20:36
We do want to, I mean, that's I guess the holy grail for us is to be better recognised in a way.
20:42
One of the notes I wrote down was if we want to be considered to be working in healthcare,
20:49
we have to be different from the leisure side of massage you know,
20:54
massage therapy we have a professional responsibility
20:58
to be up to date and the vast majority of people that I can see don't accept
21:08
that professional responsibility They are sitting on things that they learned years ago.
21:15
And then the other side of that is obviously the new therapists coming in.
21:21
They're not being properly schooled. So as Tristan says, they're just, it's not their fault.
21:28
It's the people who provide the courses to them.
21:31
I'll give you an example. I asked a group of trainee level three therapists,
21:37
what is your scope of practice?
21:39
And one of them said to me, well, I can't deal with anybody who's above seven on a pain scale.
21:46
And I went, okay, all right, we'll come back to that.
21:50
But that is what's out there.
21:55
You know, having to say to level three students, you cannot deal with undiagnosed injury.
22:02
And yet they're being shown things like an anterior draw test for the knee,
22:06
for example, level three.
22:09
What are they going to do with that? They have no idea what to do with that.
22:12
They're not being told what to do with it. They're not being told about efficacy.
22:16
They're not told about specificity. Nothing of that. They're just told,
22:19
for the knee, you've got three tests you can do.
22:22
One of them, you can do an anterior, you can do a posterior jaw test.
22:25
So it's not their fault. They're given information which is fundamentally, fundamentally wrong.
22:33
And in respect to the question, I mean, the three questions that were asked
22:37
are practitioners more evidence-informed.
22:40
Without a doubt, some are. The vast majority either choose not to be or are not.
22:46
Has the delivery of sports massage improved in the last few years? Absolutely not.
22:51
Apart from the only people that I know that are doing that are the people that we know.
22:57
So Anna Maria, Mike Grice, you know, Al.
23:02
It's a small number that I know of. There may be more people out there,
23:05
but the only people I know is a really small group.
23:10
But the last question that was asked, and this is the interesting part of it
23:13
to me, Are patient outcomes better off as a result?
23:17
And I don't know. I mean, you know, this is the thing.
23:22
We don't know because these people who are using this outdated information,
23:28
this outdated narrative who are being told all these things and not questioning
23:31
them, don't know how to question them.
23:33
And they are working with patients. If their clients are getting better,
23:37
we don't know about that. We don't see that.
23:40
So it's a really, really interesting question.
23:43
Regardless of how much we want to bring the industry on, And is it really going
23:47
to affect patient outcomes?
23:49
And I don't know. I genuinely don't know.
23:52
Patient outcomes is a really tricky one because that, I mean,
23:54
we don't have data, hands down.
23:56
And in any context, measuring that is a bloody nightmare.
24:00
It's always a very difficult thing to do. And the answer actually,
24:03
it could even be possibly not.
24:06
But that's not the point here. I mean, the first step we need to take as a community
24:12
is you get to evidence-based practice.
24:16
We've got to stop fucking lying to people. That's the first.
24:20
We have decades of legacy of bullshitting people. And this is ingrained in the culture.
24:26
And now it's up to us to undo that. And we've got some considerable forces to contend with.
24:32
We have got dinosaurs in the industry who will be teaching the same thing.
24:37
They've been teaching for 20 years now if you're teaching teaching is a bloody
24:41
privilege and if you're standing there teaching and you haven't read a paper 20 years,
24:45
you should retire you shouldn't be doing it it's not right and it's not fair
24:49
we've got we've got you know influences with half a million followers who are
24:54
completely given over to a kind of reductionist biomechanical explanation of
25:00
all pain and then you've got all the shitty tiktok,
25:03
chiropractors, you know, this is, this is explosive.
25:07
I've got a friend who's a chiropractor, absolutely sick to the teeth.
25:10
Of people wanting to come in and have what they've have done
25:14
what they've seen on on tiktok we've got we've
25:17
got the woo clan they're going
25:22
hard on oh there's trauma that pain in your
25:25
leg what that is that's trauma and so
25:28
these are i'm going to use my words carefully bunch
25:32
of dangerous idiots who shouldn't be touching people that's
25:35
what i mean to say we've got we've got people medicalizing
25:39
normal we're still doing that and i bloody hell
25:42
i was having to yell at the tv again last week when the
25:45
one show they got this they got the chiro on
25:48
holding the bowling ball up you go your head is like
25:51
a bowling ball and if you tip it over you get this is
25:54
going out to five million people if you just listen
25:57
to the words they said burr is a chiropractor who
26:00
believes tech is causing this you go that is not how we define pathologies by
26:05
a chiropractor's beliefs and actually and i posted about this there are scoping
26:10
reviews that have looked at this and tech's neck is not a thing we are not in
26:14
a position to call this that we know this is causing particular neck pain so.
26:20
We've got some massive forces to contend with
26:23
so on famous point although yes we
26:26
don't personally know that many people that are you only
26:29
get one-way traffic don't you people don't people don't
26:33
drift away from evidence-based practice and go
26:36
oh do you know what they don't do that they go the other
26:39
way so it's one-way traffic and it's a slow trickle so you
26:42
think so in so presumably in absolute numbers
26:45
i would suspect the numbers who are have raised their game in
26:48
teaching is that and i'll just mention something
26:51
i contacted anna maria this week and said what do
26:54
you reckon and one point i think she made i really
26:57
think is helpful because it shows my limitation here is
27:00
she is finding people coming on her conversion courses
27:04
uh it's improved a bit like
27:07
when she's asking them about pain or about what massage does it's
27:10
sounding better so i can totally believe that there's there's a lot there's
27:16
there's improvement going on that i am unaware of but at the same time i mean
27:21
i i mean i curate my bloody facebook feed oh this is what i want to ask you
27:25
though okay i've been my question is connected very much to what you've been saying.
27:31
Should both of you sound like you're judging our industry by what you read on
27:35
social media no well i i say to a large extent no no i i utterly it's got a
27:43
lot to do with that yeah so so we're seeing evidence i'm wondering whether we
27:47
we are getting a because like.
27:51
When we go to, for example, Therapy Expo, we see a lot of people coming,
27:54
I talk, and we talk to people there.
27:56
The first thing I notice is a lot of people don't use social media. They don't even like it.
27:59
They haven't even heard of the STA podcast, even though all the adverts and
28:03
stuff and the hours and hours and hours I spend putting out on Facebook and
28:06
Instagram and LinkedIn and TikTok.
28:08
So I think what we're seeing here is the limitations of social media.
28:14
And I don't know I worry whether the impression
28:18
you've got of our industry would we're not
28:21
worried I wonder whether it would change if we actually
28:25
look to populations who aren't using social media because as soon as you look at
28:28
someone who uses social media you know you're probably looking at somebody who's
28:31
already been social medialized and they're going to be interpolarized they're
28:34
going to be already brainwashed into yes and no's and joining their camps and
28:38
everything's black and wise so i really think it's the worst population in the
28:41
world to actually kind of measure or look for any gray look for any uncertainty
28:45
you know it's it's a spoiled population already so,
28:50
it is you know and it's
28:53
depressing and it and it wastes your efforts to
28:56
a certain extent so i i would love i would love
28:59
a way for us to actually get
29:03
a better impression what's going on but
29:06
you know i totally agree i totally agree one thing i could think
29:09
i did about two three years ago so there'll be a delay on this you see so this
29:13
this would i sat down on money i spent about two or three hours and i searched
29:17
for every clinic in about a 15 mile radius of me every practitioner i could
29:22
find and for each one i just noted the false claims on their websites.
29:29
Right i had a list of 50 things and and i'll tell you this categorically there
29:35
were two websites that had no false claims.
29:38
Mine and the other one was a clinic that I used to work at and my blurb was still on the website.
29:44
Every single one made false claims.
29:48
Many multiple false claims. I also found out that a lot of the multidisciplinary
29:51
clinics had a lot more false claims.
29:55
So this is across the other,
29:58
our sort of brother and sister industries as well.
30:01
So now that would need a few years of coming out in the wash to see will that
30:07
have changed in five years.
30:09
Yeah. And I suspect it would improve, actually.
30:12
I do think it is going in the right direction. I think so.
30:18
But we're definitely not fixing it on Facebook. I know that.
30:20
No, no, no. And I think it gets worse.
30:23
And this is why we need to direct our attention. And this is why,
30:26
for example, the STA is, I mean, Therapy Expo is a classic example.
30:31
Therapy Expo, I think 80 of our members went along to it.
30:34
Yes, there's 5,000, 3,000 people go to the doors, but 80 members.
30:37
So we are now looking into regional, smaller events across the country where
30:43
we can get that more intimate,
30:46
smaller face-to-face and actually have a learning curve, which is completed
30:50
rather than just 10 gurus and you walk away and you just don't remember anything.
30:54
It's kind of go back into education as opposed to a trade show,
30:59
which essentially, you know, is the danger of just having loads of stands and stuff.
31:02
So, and Anna Maria, she's putting on an event, which we'll release very soon,
31:07
details for in association with the STA as well in Exmouth, which is going to
31:11
have a much different format.
31:12
It's going to be, it's putting the education back in because I think that's where the problem is.
31:17
We got to just get back into good old fashioned teaching and education with,
31:20
like you say, educators who are analyzing themselves, having peer reviews.
31:24
And all the beautiful things which are supposed to happen.
31:26
And I know as an educator, happen, you know, once every three months we have
31:29
a line manager walking in and watching us and giving us feedback. So it's, but it's, it's.
31:35
I mean, Brooks don't talk about overpronation anymore on their website.
31:39
Essex do. Essex still do. And they have the wet foot test. But I mean, that took ages.
31:43
But now they're taking that work out. So things do kind of change.
31:46
But I can sense your frustration, but I want to turn it more to,
31:50
you mentioned regulation.
31:52
What about standardization? Because in that episode we had as well,
31:55
one of the differences Anne-Maria said was, yes, regulation has got lots of problems.
31:59
And we see in other industries, it hasn't helped so much. but standardization
32:02
is different and that's what we should maybe be kind of trying to move towards
32:06
is that something either of you have kind of looked into or are clear on the
32:10
difference or the possibilities of that no i've just heard it mumbled about
32:15
i mean it it's it it's sort of odd that it wouldn't be don't you think i mean
32:20
what what other subject would you learn,
32:22
you know that you wouldn't find a standardized curriculum yeah again
32:26
it's tricky because once as regulation and standardization comes as
32:29
a result of the regulation but we are kind of
32:32
we're in unknown territories because without
32:35
regulation there's not normally standardization but it can in
32:38
theory be done um all it takes is more national overview of courses yeah it's
32:46
a chicken and egg thing it kind of takes away a bit of that how do you standardize
32:50
without everybody getting together to accept that okay if we're going to teach
32:54
something then we're going to teach it to this set of rules.
32:59
And it's checking in. I think it's more a case of... How do you...
33:02
Well, yeah, but if you're money is an advertising, you have to.
33:05
Things differently. I'll entreat one.
33:08
But what we're doing at the moment... I think the difference is... We are...
33:13
It's just the time difference makes it difficult to know when to politely jump in.
33:19
Go on. Go for it. No, I was just going to say, and then I'll stop talking, honestly, I promise.
33:25
We need to have some kind of framework.
33:29
And we do have a framework at the moment, but the framework is miles out of
33:32
date. I mean, it's years and years and years out of date.
33:36
And at the moment, turkeys aren't voting for Christmas.
33:39
I mean, we had the opportunity, to, and Gary knows obviously far more about
33:44
this, and you will too, Matt.
33:46
You know, we updated the Level 4 course, and yet we're still talking about dysfunction.
33:51
I mean, 2023 I think it was, late on, 2023, we updated the Level 4 course,
33:58
maybe 2024, and yet we're still talking about dysfunction.
34:04
I mean, you know, we've got to.
34:09
Standardise the language because at the moment we are looking at it from the
34:14
point of view where there's, you know, dysfunction, what the hell does that mean?
34:18
And yet people are still being taught to look for dysfunction and then to, well, to fix it.
34:24
And that's the issue. Unless we standardize how we approach the whole concept
34:32
of massage, then all we're doing is we're just moving the goalposts every once in a while.
34:36
We just shove them along a little bit, but nothing really changes.
34:41
From 2021 when that episode came out And it was so positive I mean,
34:45
you know, the things that were said They're talking about Meekins and Eric Purvis
34:51
From a few years before And things were getting out there And we were really,
34:55
really positive about it,
34:57
They're still getting out there But Trish said right at the very,
35:01
very beginning And I have to agree with them We are really not that far forward
35:06
in four years which is disappointing given the opportunities that we had to
35:12
really give the place a shake-up.
35:14
It's not our responsibility.
35:19
The industry itself has that responsibility and it's back to that thing again.
35:24
The professional responsibility to keep up to date is just not there.
35:30
And until we have that, we can't standardise anything.
35:34
I'm just letting the lag finish before I start talking. I think it's good. Yeah, we're good now.
35:39
Yeah, no, great points. Great points, Stevie. Thank you for that.
35:42
Sorry. It's really quite tricky.
35:44
I think the whole idea of standardization is rather than telling somebody the
35:50
words they're allowed to use, they're not allowed to use, you put into place
35:54
things like peer reviews,
35:56
management meetings, you make people have to analyze and criticize their own
36:02
way of teaching and what they're teaching.
36:04
And then the kind of, it's almost like classic coaching.
36:08
You have these conversations and then you set an environment where changes do
36:12
happen, but the person who's being evaluated comes up with those choices and
36:16
it just makes it happen. It's a bit like the same kind of therapist client kind of thing.
36:21
So I think that's the difference because again, the way I look at it is similar
36:28
to a client not doing their exercises.
36:31
And historically we kind of blame that clients saying, how are they going to
36:34
change and get better if they don't do what I told them?
36:37
And we know now that really what we need to do is if a client of ours doesn't
36:41
do what we tell them, maybe it's because we gave them too much to do.
36:45
We decided what they should do without listening to whether they're going to be able to do it.
36:49
And we've got to kind of flip the table, haven't we, and kind of allow,
36:51
we've got to work with them and they come up with a plan and the behavior change.
36:55
And I think that's kind of what we've got to do here.
36:57
I think what's happened since that episode, it did spawn you mentioned meekins
37:03
for example who i don't think has changed his adverts for three years in the
37:06
sense that they're still very shouty shouty and it works with some people and
37:09
i wasn't slagging off adam then i was just saying it's a good example of where
37:12
i don't think telling people what they should and shouldn't do.
37:17
Is education. It doesn't work. It doesn't work with kids. It doesn't work with
37:20
teenagers. It doesn't work with adults.
37:22
So if we are going to re-educate the educators, I think we've got to take some
37:27
of the responsibility ourselves and think, right, how does education work again?
37:30
How are we going to help these people realize that they can change without throwing everything away?
37:35
And these teachers who might be great teachers, but they're still getting out
37:37
the same notes, which they've got in their briefcase for 10 years.
37:40
Yeah, because probably there's fear. It's fear of, I haven't got any other notes.
37:44
I'm going to have to throw it all away. I'm not going have a job again i've
37:46
got a mortgage a wife i've
37:47
got and it's i think personally that
37:50
i'm being a bit of a devil's advocate here i think
37:53
expecting a change from us shouting calling them out making little videos to
37:59
people in the background i think that's scare tactics which isn't gonna we know
38:03
doesn't help behavior change because i think there's a there's a you fight pull
38:06
up gary's comment there i think he's he's i think he's made a nice point there if that's it's like
38:11
Let's read it out for the... Thank you for looking for that.
38:16
It's still lots of in-house certification. We the Converted.
38:20
That's cool. We the Converted. Oh, really? It's not the one like that.
38:22
We the Converted. We the Converted.
38:24
Oh, here we go. Right. Just reading it out for podcast listeners.
38:27
Gary Benson, founder of the STO, says, We the Converted are trying to influence
38:30
an industry that isn't interested.
38:31
It's commercially driven with the exception of probably half a dozen providers.
38:35
There is that issue as well, Gary. Yeah. Yeah, there is. Money, money, money.
38:39
And I think there's an odd subculture that we're contending amongst ourselves,
38:47
I think, because the shouty-shouty doesn't work. And there's a...
38:53
Myth-busting is one of those important things that has a place and has to be there.
38:58
But if your whole thing is myth-busting, you're no good to anyone.
39:02
Because what I think with regards to any myth, continual myth-buster,
39:06
is the same old question, which is, what are you for?
39:11
What are you for? You know, tell us what we should be doing.
39:16
And I've got a weird analogy for you.
39:20
Matt, old school grain shield, okay? okay bully archetypes
39:24
grip of stepson and it's the same thing you got your
39:26
main bully right and then you get your two little shits that flank
39:29
the main boy it's an abusive relationship but that's
39:32
when they're until you get them on their own but that's the kind of and the thing
39:35
is you see big mythbusters sharing a.
39:38
Lot of posts and then they get shared and you get a lot of massage therapists
39:41
shitting on other massage therapists by throwing
39:45
these you know these myths at
39:48
them and a cut to me they always look like the little
39:51
shit that flanks the bully i'm not likening myth busting to bullying
39:54
but the sharing of it a lot of the time just
39:57
looks to me like okay i see what you mean you're the little
40:00
shit you're just the one who says it goes yeah while the
40:03
other one's dealing out the shooing and it's and it's
40:06
and what annoys me is they took
40:09
no effort you didn't read the papers you didn't
40:12
critique anything you haven't learned anything you just shared it
40:15
and i can tell you this and you i bet you found this as
40:18
well matt on some of these posts if you go and
40:21
read the paper that was referenced it doesn't
40:24
always substantiate the point they were making yeah and
40:28
it's already been shared 5 000 times yeah i'm
40:31
not going to push against that because i'm not really up for that sort of
40:34
fight so we've kind of
40:37
so so a lot of people i think
40:40
probably like to call themselves critical thinkers because you they
40:43
shared do you know what i mean oh i shared a myth busters post
40:45
they're from a critical thinker and it's not you're just toeing the line and
40:48
it just happened to be this line could have been another one do you know what
40:51
i mean there's no there's no real in-depth knowledge has has been gained there's
40:56
no really hard-fought critical thinking that's taking place do you see what
41:00
i mean so a lot of people chin on each other.
41:04
Well i would argue that even the original poster loses any.
41:10
Is the original poster is causing that cascade of
41:13
posts they're just copying they're imitating something that might have come out
41:16
of a good place but you can't condense a
41:20
paper into six instagram photos with
41:22
little memes a bit because as soon as you use a fancy photo
41:26
of somebody with a hammer doing something or it's just for me it doesn't
41:29
work you've lost you're not educating anymore no you're not you
41:31
know that's what i i think you wouldn't do it in a classroom you certainly wouldn't
41:35
bring up the teacher down the road and go look what this is guys doing him class
41:38
are going to go well who are you slagging off this bloke how do we know it's
41:40
not you who's who's the idiot so i think we need to look at that but i am very
41:44
much playing a devil's advocate because i agree that something definitely needs
41:47
to be done and i if anything reflecting on this.
41:52
What i really like that both of you brought to the table is yes
41:55
three and a half years has gone by and things aren't as much better
41:59
as they should be but then again you know
42:01
what if i consider the audience at therapy expo
42:05
four years ago and what i saw this year when i was walking around and
42:07
talking to people i think it was healthier i think therapy
42:11
was had to change because the feedback on the speakers was like
42:14
they're not all just fawning over the same people anymore they're
42:17
like well i've seen that there's nothing new same as last year whereas normally you
42:21
would go home and tell everybody i want to see so and so i would i must have
42:23
been amazing yeah it was great rather than what did you get
42:26
from that you know so it's an
42:29
interesting one it's an interesting one let's see what people in here are saying
42:33
rachel black let's see what rachel black has to say hi all i think perhaps some
42:38
science needs to be accessible to non-academic level three massage therapists
42:43
who struggle to read papers who are perhaps spreading misinformation yeah again it's about.
42:50
Rephrasing what you're it's teaching and isn't it you've got to change your
42:54
delivery according to who your audience is matt scarsbrook you go used to give
42:58
a really nice analogy about,
43:01
teaching pain science and the like and he said when you do gcse you learn that an atom is a ball,
43:09
and when you do a level you learn it's not a ball it's like a series of balls
43:12
going around a ball and when you do a degree in physics it gets way worse than
43:16
that and the idea you can there's a teachable version of everything like you
43:21
know what i mean you can't just apart from quantum physics because no but but
43:25
everything else there's a there's a teachable version and and we should do that.
43:29
That should be simplified and spread about.
43:34
You mentioned Mike. Go on.
43:39
I know this is nuts I was going to say something about Therapy Expo which occurred
43:44
to me having been a couple of times now two or three times now I think,
43:50
a way we need to kind of drop a grenade in in terms of a speaker or two to get
43:56
us out of our bubble a little bit we're kind of,
44:00
kind of comfortable with the speakers that are there because they kind of fit
44:05
our biases I suppose in a way we I think we need somebody to come along and
44:12
drop a grenade in the place and say, right, okay,
44:15
here's where I'm coming from, what do you think about that?
44:20
The person that comes to mind is, I don't know, you guys know this guy, Asaf Kleinman?
44:26
You read some of his things and you think... Can't stand the way he portrays
44:30
himself on social media.
44:31
He's the exact example of somebody who I think does more harm than good in this
44:35
world. What's your point?
44:41
But you know what I mean I don't know I mean I just we've got comfortable I
44:48
think we have a nice little bubble of people and there's nobody out there,
44:56
I don't think there's anybody out there offering some alternate view of something
45:00
that we're interested in.
45:01
I'm not sure what I'm trying to get that. I don't think... I'm not sure we need different speakers.
45:07
I think one of the things that I'm involved in with the conference,
45:10
Anne-Marie's conference in Exmouth in September, which we'll release details
45:14
of soon, the Hands and Hub conference, is going to be...
45:18
I don't think it's a case of different speakers. I think
45:21
the great speakers are the ones who turn the
45:24
camera back onto the people who are watching them at
45:27
the same way as we turn the camera onto the patient in front of
45:30
us and say i'm listening to you you've got the answers
45:33
all i'm going to do is guide you a little bit or just allow give
45:35
you the safe space to open up and talk a little bit more exactly the
45:38
same thing i think it's the same thing with learning from great speakers is
45:42
they need to turn the lens around and have all
45:45
the delicates this is what's going to be happening hopefully my input is the
45:49
power of a conference is creating an education environment where you remove
45:54
the peer pressure in the in the 200 attendees or something everyone starts really
45:58
talking to each other opening up about their worries their fears their concerns start actually.
46:03
Visiting the massage therapist down the road to share
46:06
your problems and see if they've got a solution rather than thinking i'm gonna lose
46:09
my clients and i think that needs to be the future of conferences
46:12
is turn it back into education as opposed
46:15
to community education of networking and
46:18
stuff because it's not a case of getting a different speaker
46:21
or anything that's what i think and that's what i'm
46:24
quite excited to getting involved in there needs to be
46:27
more collaboration between we've got the answers it's like the patients therapists
46:30
have got the answers if you put somebody who just does
46:33
cupping with all their patients and things that's the end of the that's all
46:37
they need and nothing else if you
46:39
put them in a safe space and do some coaching with them and have
46:42
that conversation and just let them bring up
46:45
their own thoughts and their own kind of sustained talk
46:48
and eventually they're going to eventually go.
46:51
I need a bit more than cupping don't i bam they're
46:54
educated you converted them but i think that's the environment we
46:57
need to to to create personally that's and
47:01
that gives me a bit of hope because it means we've got a method i think and i
47:05
think anybody could be converted it's not i mean
47:07
for us we're on a different plane i'm not saying it's higher
47:10
or lower but we've traveled through this process
47:13
of understanding where we can see that and it's so obvious that's
47:17
only because we've traveled through it for somebody else they believe cupping
47:20
is the solution to everything and they will put photos of cupping on the instagram
47:23
feed the more they can fit on there and the ready they look the better we kind
47:26
of go it's ridiculous but i think 10 minutes with that person in the right coaching
47:30
environment and they could realize like a patient I shouldn't be stretching my hamstring should I.
47:36
If the tendons poke into that bone I shouldn't be doing that should I bad behavior
47:40
change so anyways it isn't about me it was just.
47:44
No that's my how do we do that,
47:48
How do we achieve that? We change conferences. We turn the camera around.
47:52
We get delegates really involved. We let delegates realize they've got the answers
47:56
as long as they open up and they
47:59
turn the camera on them and they're not scared to say things out loud.
48:03
I think, Tristan, I was interested following your criticism,
48:07
healthy criticism of anonymous members.
48:10
And I think that is an issue. i think
48:13
once you get a facebook group where people aren't embarrassed
48:16
to say their name then we can have some healthy conversation i
48:20
mean it doesn't mean you can't have everybody's got to be i mean again camera
48:24
lens if you want to be anonymous fine you go for it but have you considered
48:27
that have you considered this maybe something else that's affecting your business
48:30
what is it you're afraid of or blah blah blah so i think there's a lot of that
48:35
i think particularly massage therapists who have been taught some pretty wacky stuff,
48:40
they need to be treated differently to get up to, not up to,
48:43
I don't like saying up to, but get to the level of understanding or thinking the plane that we're on.
48:49
And that's tricky. It's not an easy job, but it can be done.
48:51
Changing minds is an exceptionally challenging thing to do.
48:54
You know, there's David McCraney's book, Changing, you know,
48:58
that's when I got, I started it.
48:59
I didn't crack on with it, but it's a long process.
49:05
And well funnily enough although i don't know if you really achieve that much of it on social media.
49:13
There is possibly an upside which is you
49:17
know if you're starting to doubt what you taught you just have you
49:20
know you're having a few quanders going i'm not sure this adds up you will
49:23
at least find other people who go
49:26
do you know i think that and i think that's probably where i started
49:29
you know i connected with groups and
49:32
people and we start going this i don't think and yes
49:36
you need to find so it's not all bad there's
49:42
a uval noah harari's latest book he's the anthropologist historian chap he's
49:48
written a book called nexus i don't i read it i saw a really good interview
49:51
with him and it's a book about information in in history and he makes the point that the.
49:59
Silicon valley dream that if
50:02
we could just give everyone all the
50:05
information that's available all the knowledge we would
50:08
democratize we would empower we would do you see what i mean we would improve
50:13
and enrich is that dream is gone it doesn't work because 99 of all the information
50:21
available is junk because junk is easy to produce.
50:26
It's cheap. The truth is expensive and it takes time and it takes effort.
50:32
So I think we're exactly in that situation. We're getting overwhelmed with information
50:40
and it's all available. That doesn't make everyone smarter.
50:44
It doesn't work. It's not the root. Just vomiting up the information won't work.
50:49
Do you think maybe we've all got the truth inside us, though.
50:55
The problem is we've got a society who's looking externally for the truth.
51:00
But with the right, again, I'm just using that analogy until he's sick of it,
51:03
of turning that lens around.
51:04
With the right conversation with someone who allows us to actually look inside,
51:08
I think we all know that we shouldn't be judging someone by the color of this.
51:12
We all know that we shouldn't judge we should
51:15
inherently know we're inherently tell somebody who looks
51:18
like a woman smells like a woman acts like a woman and is a woman that
51:20
they're not allowed to go in the ladies toilets you know we shouldn't be making these
51:23
kind of rules because and if you i think the people
51:26
making these rules in the right coaching environment they'd
51:29
come out eventually and just themselves go yeah
51:32
i need to rethink this through again i think we all know this but
51:35
the trouble is i like to
51:38
think we have humans are pretty cool which to my
51:41
it's not a great example of it is i mean sometimes let's be honest i think we
51:45
all there's a lot of us there's a lot of us we know each other we need to vent
51:49
from time to time we do because you know we just do funnily enough i think stevie
51:55
might still be in it cecily and emmy and i were i've.
52:00
Lefty i think two of the others have the the big massage
52:03
therapist group it's just called massage therapists the american center
52:06
it's about 55 000 members and it is the
52:09
most unimaginable shit show of pretty
52:13
well anti-scientific thinking and you
52:16
and you know i mean obviously it's a lens but there's
52:19
it has it has some proxy to reality
52:22
and it's a and actually you go
52:25
do you know what i can't keep having this fight all you can do is be what you
52:30
are for not what you're against because what you're against weakens you and
52:34
what you are for draws people to you right look it's um 857 fabulous what i think.
52:45
Is the best thing to do now. And this goes to you, the podcast listener,
52:51
and to you, people in the live lounge.
52:53
I want you to try, once this episode, either the YouTube video or the,
52:58
wait till it's on podcast as well, because you don't want to create any barriers.
53:01
Oh, go and listen to this, and it's not even on podcast yet.
53:03
You'll get one shot, that's all you're going to get. So wait till it's on the
53:06
podcast, but just share it somewhere.
53:09
And we're not doing this because we make a pound every time we share it.
53:12
We're doing it because it's up to us to kind
53:15
of disseminate what we regard as useful
53:17
information i don't think in this podcast anyone's told anybody
53:20
what they should do is it's all been a case of
53:23
just have a little think reflect a bit is this what we should be doing
53:26
so i like to think that's what the sta podcast is
53:29
about i don't think anything in here is going to scare people
53:32
even further down their kind of warren of misinformation so just kind of try
53:38
and do that and i think when you do that by the way that's that's a good job
53:43
because one thing I always like about your approach is that you are thoughtful, and I love that.
53:51
Sometimes I'm too thoughtful. That's why it's lovely to speak to you guys because it is a shit show.
53:58
I don't like swearing, but I feel that because I'm with you two now. No, I know you.
54:03
I never swear I don't like it. But listening to you two and the alliance we
54:08
have and the page we're on, it's a shit show that three and a half years later,
54:13
we're still having these conversations and there are things going on
54:16
in forums where they're saying all this sort of stuff it is a shame but we
54:19
didn't have another argument about miscarriages i mean honestly can we do this
54:22
again can we honestly can you i can't do that again but sometimes you have to
54:28
repeat the same information because the audience need to hear it a few more
54:31
times you know and or maybe it's a different audience it's tricky but we've
54:36
got some great educators in the industry.
54:39
And like people like yourselves we've got the scottish face
54:42
the facebook scottish therapist group which is putting out
54:44
some great information so thank you stevie for that tris at therapy
54:48
expos and wherever else you speak the audience loves
54:51
you so thank you very much for that and you really managed to to share
54:54
really insightful information which does make people think you're a great example
54:57
of somebody who does just doesn't want the camera on them and
55:00
you'll go up to it and kind of go no no no it's about you people when
55:04
you see a person out of all your people how many people don't come back to your
55:07
clinic and they think about it oh about 50 how do you know what happened to
55:10
them are they all better well maybe not it's classic great presenting which
55:14
you do so that's that's the kind of stuff we need more of but but there we go
55:17
people i mean yeah do please try and share this if you listen to the podcast
55:20
we get like a couple thousand downloads and i don't know who like.
55:24
1900 of you are that's another something i've got to try and work out somehow
55:28
but um i'd love to know you what you do and and yeah what you do with the information
55:32
you're listening to but but yeah so,
55:35
do try and share this information so thank you tris thank you
55:38
stevie thanks for having to hear your viewpoints it's been perfect
55:41
reflection really really exactly what we want to get out these episodes
55:44
so thank you so much if people are interested in following you
55:47
which they should be then we've got let's
55:50
let people know some websites here for the visuals of
55:53
you who have joined us live let's put a little bit of information here
55:56
for you if you'd like to follow stevie then fit through
55:59
life you can reach that at fit hyphen through
56:02
thru hyphen life.co.uk and
56:06
you can also follow stevie at fit underscore through with you underscore life
56:10
on instagram and like i say you've also got the scottish therapists facebook
56:15
group which i recommend obviously join if you're in scotland but even if you're
56:18
not it's interesting just to show some camaraderie with our neighbors.
56:23
And also Tristan, let's bring that up on the screen. For those of you who joined
56:26
us live, you've got movemassagepro.com.
56:31
So you can find a great website there from Tristan Attenborough,
56:34
and you can link up with Tristan on Instagram at movemassagepro.
56:40
So there you go. They're our guests tonight, if you'd like to connect with them.
56:44
Right. Well, we've got next week, next week, next week, next week, just coincidence.
56:48
We're going back to the week before matt and
56:51
anna graced our screen we're going back to episode 73 which
56:54
was also in 2021 and that's when i chatted with
56:58
rafael bender about the evidence-informed
57:01
pilates it's a great few months we had there was great information coming out
57:05
and i'm really thrilled to welcome back who has been on the show before in a
57:08
post therapy expo episode we did um charia karia sang that's probably a terrible
57:13
pronunciation but yeah she's also
57:15
known as the wee physio which I think my pronunciation is pretty good.
57:18
And she is going to be coming in to reflect on that episode,
57:21
episode 73, Evidence-Informed Pilates, as well as a physio.
57:24
She's got a master's in sports and exercise medicine and is a Pilates teacher as well.
57:28
And she's going to be reflecting on that, which I think is a great episode.
57:32
It's been a while since we've talked about Pilates.
57:34
So I'm really looking forward to that. So do join us for that.
57:37
And remember, if you'd like to be on the show, you've seen Tris and Steve just
57:40
sharing their thoughts.
57:41
I don't think I've jumped down their throat or done a thing too naughty to them.
57:44
I jumped in a few times. It may sound like I was coming to you,
57:47
but it's just because of the Scotland-England internet issue going on.
57:53
Yeah but anyway so yeah if you fancy joining us then
57:56
just yeah find me on social media and we'll have a chat i'm booked
57:59
now until mid-june but i just yeah as soon
58:01
as you are interested let me know um so
58:04
once again just before we leave thanks everyone who joined us live james morgan
58:07
says what conference in september um hasn't officially
58:10
been released yet james but in exmouth just down the road
58:13
from exeter so you can probably you could run there because you did
58:16
a marathon once on your treadmill didn't you in your clinic yes you
58:18
did so yeah you could run there james in exmouth we're
58:21
putting on september the 20th and the 21st it's
58:24
going to be the hands-on hub conference this is like i hope anna maria doesn't
58:27
mind me announcing this today but we're really
58:30
i'm putting my name on it and we're really going
58:33
to try and deliver a conference that helps deal with some of the issues which
58:38
we've talked about tonight because something we've got to change we've got to
58:41
change in how we are attracting and educating people obviously if you don't
58:45
leave an ex-meth then it's going to be a bit of a drag getting there but if
58:48
this works well then we're looking at different ones across the country,
58:52
which will be linked with STA conferences and things.
58:55
Don't forget, you've also got the STA regional conference in the south with Alex Mordown in Poole.
59:01
That is coming up, isn't it? I think it's in May the 10th or something like
59:04
that. Make sure you check out STA pages for that with some lovely speakers there,
59:07
including Daniel Williams.
59:09
There you go. But my biggest thanks tonight to Mr. Tristan with Anit Attenborough.
59:14
Thank you very much trust thank you and stevie bar joining us from glasgow count
59:20
to five and you'll get a response.
59:22
Thank you very much no i thought we'd at least there you
59:25
go it's actually a little bit longer so thank you for that i've got so much
59:28
editing to do tomorrow it's a good job i've got no job
59:31
apart from this but that's fine that's fine i
59:34
do it for the love right okay people thanks very much thanks
59:36
for tuning in if you listen to the podcast do please please if you can leave
59:39
a review and rating that's another way you can help the industry guys
59:42
is is use google to your advantage every time
59:45
you rate something and you leave a review it pushes it
59:48
further up in the search results so this time if somebody puts in
59:51
miscarriage this will come up because she said
59:54
that word as opposed to somebody from the massive groups who
59:57
are saying that oh don't touch anybody in the first trimester don't you know
59:59
you can cause a miscarriage and that sort of stuff this is a way we can play
1:00:02
around with information as well leaving ratings and reviews for quality information
1:00:05
so do take time to do that please in the meantime look after each other listen
1:00:11
to each other and hopefully we'll see some of you on Tuesday at eight o'clock. Take care. Bye-bye.
1:00:16
Music.