Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Full Episode - Trump Is Sabotaging The Midterms For Republicans + Politicizing The Pentagon Is The Most Dangerous Thing Trump Can Do

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Full Episode - Trump Is Sabotaging The Midterms For Republicans + Politicizing The Pentagon Is The Most Dangerous Thing Trump Can Do · The Chuck ToddCast

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Speaker 1: Hello there, Happy Thursday, and welcome to another episode of
1:55
Speaker 1: the Chuck Podcast. I am coming to you. I'm traveling.
1:58
Speaker 1: I just wrapped up a panel that I moderated on
2:02
Speaker 1: behalf of the Harvard Kennedy School. I'm not a I
2:06
Speaker 1: literally just was an invited moderator. My panel was a
2:10
Speaker 1: long time MAYBC News political reportner Britney Shepherd, former DNC
2:14
Speaker 1: chair Jamie Harrison, and former Republican Congressman from Illinois Rodney
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Speaker 1: Davis and we basically did a mid term preview. In fact,
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Speaker 1: many of the things I talked about there you've heard
2:24
Speaker 1: me talk about here. But it is, it is. It
2:31
Speaker 1: was interesting to hear sort of what people feel like
2:36
Speaker 1: they have to say publicly. And I say that, and
2:38
Speaker 1: I think that you know you you know, no partisan
2:43
Speaker 1: and I get it right. Partisans want to be careful
2:46
Speaker 1: and they want to want to be on message. But
2:49
Speaker 1: needless to say, Rodney Davis, who works the Chamber of Commerce,
2:53
Speaker 1: he sort of acknowledged that there are some there are
2:56
Speaker 1: some concerns that the Republican Party is being remade a
3:00
Speaker 1: party that is not as appealing to the Chamber of
3:03
Speaker 1: Commerce Republicans as it once were. And Jamie Harrison acknowledged
3:07
Speaker 1: plenty of problems that the Democrats have and speaking to
3:11
Speaker 1: rural America. But anyway, you won't be surprised by this,
3:15
Speaker 1: but that you know, those Harvard students a pretty smart
3:18
Speaker 1: last time I checked, and they asked some terrific questions
3:21
Speaker 1: in there. So my thanks to the wonderful hosts at
3:24
Speaker 1: the Harvard Kennedy School and the Institute of Politics. There
3:28
Speaker 1: are a lot of this is sort of the original
3:32
Speaker 1: IOP and there are a lot of it. They've been
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Speaker 1: a great model for Institute of Politics all around the
3:38
Speaker 1: country on that. So my thanks to there. But that
3:40
Speaker 1: is why I'm not in the home studio. But it
3:43
Speaker 1: doesn't mean I don't have that. I have some trunccated
3:46
Speaker 1: show for you, actually just the opposite, fun little program. Today,
3:50
Speaker 1: my guest is Paul Reikoff. He is the founder is
3:55
Speaker 1: When I first got to know him, he had founded
3:57
Speaker 1: the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans Veterans Association that was essentially
4:06
Speaker 1: there to advocate and lobby on behalf of veterans of
4:09
Speaker 1: Iraq and Afghanistan here in the twenty first century. He
4:12
Speaker 1: has since helped found an organization called Independence for America,
4:18
Speaker 1: and he describes himself as somebody that's part of the
4:23
Speaker 1: angry middle and needless to say, we have an interesting
4:26
Speaker 1: conversation about that, but we also talk about sort of
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Speaker 1: veterans issues in general, how Democrats move veterans, how Republicans
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Speaker 1: move veterans. One thing about Paul is he's not shy.
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Speaker 1: He's got a lot of strong opinions, and I think
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Speaker 1: it's a very fascinating conversation. But before we get to that,
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Speaker 1: I have a few things I want to get to
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Speaker 1: and in fact, let's start with the midterms. I know
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Speaker 1: we've had a lot of crazy stuff happened this week,
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Speaker 1: right the Pam bondi Epstein hearings. You know, I'm not
4:59
Speaker 1: going to do what everybody starts does these days, which
5:02
Speaker 1: is say, you know, Congressional hearings are all theater. Yes
5:05
Speaker 1: they're all theater. But the theater can matter if there's
5:12
Speaker 1: a SoundBite that lives or a moment that lingers. That's
5:16
Speaker 1: why these hearings do. I wish that more members of
5:19
Speaker 1: Congress figured out how to not make themselves the focus
5:23
Speaker 1: and make the witness and the question that they want
5:25
Speaker 1: the witness to answer, the focal point. I think, in fact,
5:31
Speaker 1: a great example of this was Illinois Congressman Sean Casten
5:35
Speaker 1: and the question that he asked a couple of weeks
5:37
Speaker 1: ago of Scott Bessant asking about some technicalities about what
5:41
Speaker 1: is Treasury's authority when it comes to overseeing the money
5:45
Speaker 1: that comes from the Venezuela oil. And you could just
5:48
Speaker 1: see Scott Bessett look like the student in the classroom
5:52
Speaker 1: that got caught not reading, not doing the homework assignment
5:55
Speaker 1: the night before and the teacher called on them. In
5:58
Speaker 1: some ways, I found it to be more effective then
6:01
Speaker 1: you do the argument back and forth. But I understand
6:05
Speaker 1: the politics of that. The members are trying, you know,
6:09
Speaker 1: sometimes it's the only time their constituents know they're doing anything.
6:12
Speaker 1: Are at these hearings, And of course we know in
6:15
Speaker 1: the Trump administration, cabinet secretaries have an audience of one.
6:19
Speaker 1: And it was bizarre to hear Pam Bondi pushback on
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Speaker 1: one Epstein question by saying, how come we're not talking
6:25
Speaker 1: about the Dow crossing the fifty thousand market? You're like,
6:28
Speaker 1: what does the Attorney General have anything to do with
6:30
Speaker 1: the Dow Jones industrial average? So, but we do know
6:35
Speaker 1: that's that's a comment that was meant for an audience
6:38
Speaker 1: of what the man over at sixteen hundred Pennsylvania Avenue.
6:42
Speaker 1: But you know, Bondi's credibility issues are pretty she's accumulating
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Speaker 1: quite a few of them. It's been a you know,
6:53
Speaker 1: it's not been a good good week for the Justice Department.
6:56
Speaker 1: Jeanine Piro tried to do get a grand jury. You know,
6:59
Speaker 1: infamous grand juries can indict supposedly can indict a hand sandwich,
7:03
Speaker 1: but they can't seem to indict people that that the
7:08
Speaker 1: public doesn't think deserve to be indicted, and so they
7:10
Speaker 1: try to get indictment on those members of Congress who
7:13
Speaker 1: made the video that told rank and file soldiers that
7:17
Speaker 1: they do not have to follow illegal orders, which is true.
7:22
Speaker 1: That's upholding your oath.
7:24
Speaker 2: So it.
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Speaker 1: I think the decision by the grand jury not to
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Speaker 1: bring those indictments, I hope for those of you that
7:35
Speaker 1: are concerned that somehow the government isn't responsive, that people
7:40
Speaker 1: aren't listening, that should be a reminder that, you know,
7:46
Speaker 1: the public public is paying more attention than I think
7:49
Speaker 1: activists and other members of the media think at times,
7:51
Speaker 1: and certainly how elected officials. The public's paying attention. And ultimately,
7:57
Speaker 1: you're going to have to trust the voters that they're
7:59
Speaker 1: going to do the right thing when it is up
8:01
Speaker 1: to them to do the right thing. And those Grand
8:03
Speaker 1: jurors did the right thing when it was their time
8:06
Speaker 1: to do the right thing. So I hope those of
8:09
Speaker 1: you that have been losing some faith in the democracy,
8:12
Speaker 1: losing some faith that you realize now when trust the voter,
8:17
Speaker 1: just trust the voter. Eventually we always figure it out. Okay,
8:21
Speaker 1: the question is how much damage gets done before we
8:24
Speaker 1: as an electorate have to figure it out. But we
8:27
Speaker 1: do always figure it out. That's what our history shows.
8:30
Speaker 1: And I'm confident we're going to figure it out again,
8:31
Speaker 1: and we're going to get to a better place, and
8:34
Speaker 1: we're going to figure out how to be have a
8:36
Speaker 1: democracy that's more responsive to left, right and center, which
8:39
Speaker 1: is part of the conversation I have with Paul Rykoff.
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Speaker 1: This is not about just TDS, you know here, This
8:44
Speaker 1: is about the system as a whole. Trust the voter here,
8:48
Speaker 1: and I think that decision by those grand jurors not
8:52
Speaker 1: to go along with that indictment and it's, you know,
8:54
Speaker 1: another embarrassment for the Justice Department. But remember it was
8:58
Speaker 1: Pam Bondi who gave out those who claimed that she
9:03
Speaker 1: had all these Epstein files on her desk and she
9:06
Speaker 1: was doing all this, and then now she's in the
9:08
Speaker 1: role of pay no attention to these Epstein files. Right
9:11
Speaker 1: when she first got there, it was all about riling
9:13
Speaker 1: up the magabase that cared about the Epstein files. And
9:17
Speaker 1: now that they've had to put their money where their
9:20
Speaker 1: mouth is and been forced to actually release these files.
9:22
Speaker 1: And now they've been you know, suddenly they want to
9:25
Speaker 1: redact more. They're afraid of certain things. There's been a
9:29
Speaker 1: lot of protecting of Donald Trump here, even though again
9:34
Speaker 1: it's interesting, there seems to be plenty of semi exculpatory
9:40
Speaker 1: things for Trump in these files, right, including the FBI
9:44
Speaker 1: notes that he talked to an FBI agent and seemed
9:47
Speaker 1: to think that what Epstein and Dyline Maxwell are up
9:49
Speaker 1: to was no good. But he seems to be awfully
9:53
Speaker 1: nervous about it. Is it too many friends that are
9:55
Speaker 1: caught up in it? Is it the fact that it
9:58
Speaker 1: is his close friend? Is it the fact that they
10:00
Speaker 1: are that when they were all when when when Trump
10:03
Speaker 1: and Millennia were a new couple, that the one couple
10:07
Speaker 1: that they interactive with quite a bit was Maxwell and Epstein.
10:11
Speaker 1: Whatever it is, it is Trump is behaving like he's
10:17
Speaker 1: got more to hide than what we all have actually seen. Right.
10:21
Speaker 1: It's a bit of a head scratcher. So needless to say,
10:24
Speaker 1: I think that that BONDI has cemented her legacy is
10:29
Speaker 1: more partisan, frankly partisan warrior sitting there and not you know,
10:35
Speaker 1: I don't think that's going to be her Attorney general
10:41
Speaker 1: portrait is going to be one that is hung up
10:44
Speaker 1: very often by successive attorneys general. I think her portrait
10:50
Speaker 1: will likely be in the basement of that Justice Department
10:52
Speaker 1: building for a long, long, long time. But with that,
10:58
Speaker 1: I want to focus obviously, Look, I'm a campaign guy,
11:01
Speaker 1: I'm a politics guy, and it's an even numbered year,
11:04
Speaker 1: so you know, when when in doubt, I'm going to
11:06
Speaker 1: focus on where we are politically at the moment, and
11:12
Speaker 1: there is Look, I made it clear that you know,
11:15
Speaker 1: it looks like the House has already gone. The question
11:18
Speaker 1: is is it going to be a small majority for
11:20
Speaker 1: the Democrats or a large majority for the Democrats. Structurally,
11:23
Speaker 1: it's hard to see how it becomes a large majority
11:25
Speaker 1: for the Democrats. In fact, some of the feedback I
11:26
Speaker 1: got on my substack, I took what I gave to
11:29
Speaker 1: you guys on Monday, and I basically put some charts
11:31
Speaker 1: together as well, and it's in the substack on how
11:38
Speaker 1: you know, essentially saying the cake is basically baked. You've
11:41
Speaker 1: got you know, we've already crossed the fifty plus open
11:45
Speaker 1: seat list. There's already thirty Republican retirements that are more
11:49
Speaker 1: than are likely to come. You've got presidential job ratings
11:52
Speaker 1: sitting in the very low forties. There's even a handful
11:55
Speaker 1: of polls it shows his approval rating in the high
12:00
Speaker 1: thirties and disapproval rating creeping over sixty. That is a
12:05
Speaker 1: recipe for a midterm flip. The question is are there
12:11
Speaker 1: enough congressional districts that Democrats can make competitive to take
12:15
Speaker 1: a Instead of winning ten to fifteen seats, can they
12:18
Speaker 1: win twenty to thirty seats. I had a few One
12:24
Speaker 1: of the polster that I trust quite a bit, who
12:27
Speaker 1: really is more of an independent these days, but certainly
12:29
Speaker 1: is more familiar with the Republican side of the aisle.
12:33
Speaker 1: He shared with me some numbers and reminding me that
12:35
Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen, I believe not a single congressional district
12:41
Speaker 1: that Donald Trump got fifty seven percent or more in
12:44
Speaker 1: Democrats were able to flip that there is there is
12:46
Speaker 1: a ceiling, right, there is a ceiling. And then even
12:49
Speaker 1: in the twenty twenty five Virginia Assembly races, you know,
12:53
Speaker 1: Democrats were able to win districts that Trump won by
12:57
Speaker 1: five points or less. They were not able to win
12:59
Speaker 1: districts where he won by more than five points. And
13:02
Speaker 1: we've seen Democrats are trying to put some double digit
13:06
Speaker 1: Trump districts in play, including one of the Montana seats
13:10
Speaker 1: with Ryan Zinky, one of the Colorado seats in and
13:13
Speaker 1: around Colorado Springs. BILLOK, that's smart strategy, right, You want
13:19
Speaker 1: to try to stretch the field, make the incumbent party
13:22
Speaker 1: spend more money. The Republicans have more money than the
13:25
Speaker 1: Democrats right now, so if you're in the challenger position,
13:29
Speaker 1: you want to make them spread dilute their resources a
13:32
Speaker 1: little bit. But the Republicans have a huge problem on
13:37
Speaker 1: their hands. They've got a president who is not interested
13:39
Speaker 1: in helping Republicans actually succeed in the midterms. Right The
13:43
Speaker 1: most glaring example is what he's not what he's done
13:48
Speaker 1: in the state of Texas, or what he's not done
13:49
Speaker 1: in the state of Texas. By staying out of that
13:52
Speaker 1: Texas Centate primary, he is perhaps going to cost his
13:57
Speaker 1: party a half a billion dollars to try to rescue
14:02
Speaker 1: one of the most flawed, ethically and morally challenged nominees
14:05
Speaker 1: that they could ever have. You know, only Roy Moore
14:08
Speaker 1: is worse if they end up with Ken Paxton as
14:11
Speaker 1: a nominee, and it's going to cost them an arm
14:13
Speaker 1: and a leg, no matter who the Democratic nominees, whether
14:16
Speaker 1: it is Tallerico or it is Crockett. Because Paxon himself
14:20
Speaker 1: is not popular, there are plenty of Bush Republicans and
14:22
Speaker 1: Cornn Republicans who are among those who voted to impeach
14:26
Speaker 1: him in the state House, who are not big fans
14:29
Speaker 1: of him. And because Paxson's been very loyal to Trump,
14:35
Speaker 1: Trump can't bring himself to endorse against Paxton. He views
14:38
Speaker 1: corn as somebody that's not been trumpy enough. He sees
14:42
Speaker 1: Cornn and there's plenty of people that have whispered in
14:44
Speaker 1: Trump's here that Cornyn's really McConnell and a cowboy hat.
14:49
Speaker 1: And yet if Trump were doing what was in the
14:52
Speaker 1: best interest of the Republican Party, he'd have endorsed Cornn
14:57
Speaker 1: months ago, and that primary fee might not have been cleared,
15:02
Speaker 1: but he'd been a lot better place than where they
15:06
Speaker 1: are now.
15:06
Speaker 2: Now.
15:07
Speaker 1: Maybe he comes in late and he does endorse. Maybe
15:09
Speaker 1: he is going to wait till the runoff to pick
15:12
Speaker 1: between two. Right, Wesley Hunt's flown on Air Force one right,
15:15
Speaker 1: he's been sucking up to Trump. We know Paxton is
15:19
Speaker 1: frankly on issues, has been closer to Trump than anybody
15:22
Speaker 1: else he was. He was pro Trump before it was
15:26
Speaker 1: cool among some Texas conservatives and that matters to Trump.
15:33
Speaker 1: But it was interesting to read the stories about this
15:37
Speaker 1: donor retreat earlier this week among Republicans and they were
15:42
Speaker 1: getting this, they were getting this presentation about the trouble
15:48
Speaker 1: in Texas. Well, there's one easy way to solve the problem,
15:51
Speaker 1: and Trump won't do it. It's fascinating to see, Like when
15:54
Speaker 1: you look at the Senate map for Republicans, Trump has
15:58
Speaker 1: made it harder for them, right, Trump Chase Tom Tillis
16:01
Speaker 1: out of the race, and now they have a harder look.
16:04
Speaker 1: It is maybe Cooper runs against tell Us too, but
16:07
Speaker 1: an incumbent till Us against Cooper is a Look, the
16:13
Speaker 1: races are going to be competitive either way, but Tillis
16:15
Speaker 1: would be starting with a greater advantage than Watley, the
16:18
Speaker 1: former R and C chair who Trump is endorsed. So
16:20
Speaker 1: they've made North Carolina tougher thanks to Donald Trump. Texas
16:24
Speaker 1: is a problem thanks to Donald Trump. What's fascinating. And
16:29
Speaker 1: he just actually potentially just screwed his candidate in Michigan,
16:34
Speaker 1: Mike Rogers, because out of nowhere, and you know, talk
16:39
Speaker 1: about then the under the radar. Once again, the corrupt
16:43
Speaker 1: lobbying stories of the Trump administration are the stories that
16:48
Speaker 1: gets that go under the radar more than any right,
16:51
Speaker 1: the story I spent a lot of time with last
16:53
Speaker 1: week about the Abu Dhabi investments into the Trump organization
16:58
Speaker 1: four days before the inauguration, which you could you start
17:03
Speaker 1: to line up. It was filled with quid pro quos
17:05
Speaker 1: that touched the Binance pardon that seemed to launch it
17:12
Speaker 1: seemed to change policy on what chips could be sold
17:16
Speaker 1: to the UAE, which now could potentially backchannel and sell
17:19
Speaker 1: them to China. Right, all of this that is to
17:23
Speaker 1: me a story that is as bad as any story
17:26
Speaker 1: in the history of presidential politics and graft, right, worse
17:30
Speaker 1: than Teapot Dome when you when you put it all together,
17:34
Speaker 1: and as Andy McCarthy, the legal the conservative legal analysts
17:40
Speaker 1: at National Review was put it, you had to add
17:42
Speaker 1: a couple of zeros to Biden, you know. And he
17:45
Speaker 1: was very hard on Biden. Thought what Biden the Bidens
17:48
Speaker 1: were doing was very corrupt. And he said, he put
17:51
Speaker 1: the he said, what the Trump family has done, you
17:54
Speaker 1: had to add a couple of zeros to what the
17:55
Speaker 1: Bidens did to get anywhere near the corruption of what
17:59
Speaker 1: the Trump family has done in this specific scenario. Well
18:03
Speaker 1: Trump did it again. So you may have read about
18:07
Speaker 1: the brand new bridge that would connect Detroit to Windsor, Canada.
18:13
Speaker 1: And Windsor Canada is that just across the just across
18:16
Speaker 1: the river there in Michigan, the border of Canada. When
18:23
Speaker 1: I was younger, I one time did the Windsor Ballet.
18:26
Speaker 1: And I'll just sit here and say, if you know,
18:28
Speaker 1: you know, and I'd love to hear from those of
18:31
Speaker 1: you that may be familiar with the Windsor Ballet. And again,
18:35
Speaker 1: I'm not going any further because I don't know how
18:38
Speaker 1: many people will be upset about that, So I'll just
18:40
Speaker 1: leave that on the side. But let's just say Windsor's
18:44
Speaker 1: a lot of fun anyway. But it's a huge, you know,
18:49
Speaker 1: it's important business corridor for Michigan's economy and for Canada's economy.
18:54
Speaker 1: And there's only been one bridge for a long time.
18:56
Speaker 1: And the guy who owns that bridge makes a lot
18:58
Speaker 1: of money being the sort of the most important, you know,
19:02
Speaker 1: transit point between Canada and the United States. Well, Canada
19:07
Speaker 1: wanted another bridge. They wanted to be able to you know, Essentially,
19:12
Speaker 1: you know, the Loan Bridge was a lot of congestion,
19:17
Speaker 1: It was slowing down movement between the two countries, and
19:21
Speaker 1: so Canada agreed to pay for a new bridge connecting
19:25
Speaker 1: Windsor and Detroit. And it was going to be and
19:28
Speaker 1: it's jointly owned by the State of Michigan and Canada
19:32
Speaker 1: and Canada and Canada paid for it, Gordy Howe Bridge.
19:36
Speaker 1: It is seen as a economic boon for a lot
19:39
Speaker 1: of Michigan companies, very important to the State of Michigan's
19:42
Speaker 1: economy and very important to Canada. And the owner of
19:49
Speaker 1: the other bridge, or the guy who can basically gets
19:52
Speaker 1: all the all the fees from the use of that
19:54
Speaker 1: other bridge, lobbies halut Nick at the Commerce Department, tells
19:58
Speaker 1: him about this, and then within a day, Trump's on
20:01
Speaker 1: truth social manufacturing some outrage saying he's going to shut
20:06
Speaker 1: down this bridge or he's going to take it over,
20:11
Speaker 1: and all because a billionaire got access complained about that
20:16
Speaker 1: it was going to cost him money. Perhaps they've written
20:19
Speaker 1: their sheriff checks to the Trump campaign. So Trump felt
20:22
Speaker 1: like he had to be responsive. Well, it put his
20:26
Speaker 1: Senate candidate, Republican Mike Rogers, in a pretty tough spot
20:29
Speaker 1: because this is just good for the Michigan company. This
20:32
Speaker 1: is not one of those things that is a democratic
20:34
Speaker 1: bridge or a Republican bridge. This is good for Michigan's economy,
20:39
Speaker 1: hard stop. Mike Rogers is a what I'd call a
20:43
Speaker 1: pretty conventional Republican, pro business Republican, and here he's got
20:49
Speaker 1: his president putting him in an awkward position where he
20:52
Speaker 1: wants to essentially use the power of the federal government
20:58
Speaker 1: to make it harder for business to do to trade
21:02
Speaker 1: with Canada. Can't think of anything more less republican than that.
21:07
Speaker 1: But this is the larger issue that Trump's introduced for
21:11
Speaker 1: a lot of Republicans running for office, and his entire
21:13
Speaker 1: sort of protectionist agenda at times with tariffs and things
21:17
Speaker 1: like this. And I'm going to get to that in
21:19
Speaker 1: a moment with that House vote. But the point is
21:21
Speaker 1: is that Donald Trump keeps making decisions, making proclamations that
21:27
Speaker 1: actually do tactical harm to the Republican chances of holding
21:32
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21:35
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21:39
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21:41
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21:45
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21:49
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Speaker 1: is something you should really think about it, especially if
25:06
Speaker 1: you've got a growing family. And then there's the tariff
25:13
Speaker 1: mess where he's divided his own party, and of course,
25:17
Speaker 1: you know, Mike Johnson has no control over it. He
25:20
Speaker 1: is a speaker in name only. But the reason I
25:23
Speaker 1: call him a spino a speaker in name only, is
25:25
Speaker 1: because he can't even control the floor of the House
25:28
Speaker 1: of Representatives. You know, normally control of the House of
25:33
Speaker 1: Representatives is absolute right. You can have a one seat majority.
25:36
Speaker 1: But if you're you're the organizing party. Because the speaker
25:40
Speaker 1: has his own committee can decide what gets to the
25:42
Speaker 1: floor and what doesn't. It's called the Rules Committee. But
25:45
Speaker 1: of course the Rules Committee is how the cranky conservatives
25:49
Speaker 1: that hated Kevin McCarthy and essentially created that drama having
25:55
Speaker 1: to do who the hell was going to be speaker
25:57
Speaker 1: the last time Republicans you know, back in and at
26:00
Speaker 1: the start of at the start of twenty three, the
26:04
Speaker 1: price of Mike Johnson becoming speaker was to give essentially
26:08
Speaker 1: these cranky conservatives kind of the old Freedom Caucus guys
26:14
Speaker 1: seats on the Rules Committee. And it is astonishing how
26:18
Speaker 1: often that a handful of Republicans vote with the Democrats
26:23
Speaker 1: and essentially screw the speaker and leadership on their ability
26:29
Speaker 1: to control the floor, so they couldn't stop this procedural
26:34
Speaker 1: vote on tariff. So what happened. Now You've got more
26:39
Speaker 1: Republicans when the vote comes on the floor to repeal
26:41
Speaker 1: tariffs on Canada, more Republicans have joined Democrats to repeal
26:45
Speaker 1: those tariffs. All over the Midwest, these tariffs are enormously unpopular.
26:51
Speaker 1: I mean, it has made the farm economy in Iowa.
26:53
Speaker 1: Crater I shared with you a couple of weeks ago
26:56
Speaker 1: how their GDP has dropped to fiftieth in the state
26:59
Speaker 1: of the Union, in the out of fifty states they're
27:03
Speaker 1: statewide GDP And it's all due to these tariffs and
27:05
Speaker 1: what it's done to the farm economy and soybean's essentially
27:08
Speaker 1: sitting there and not being bought by the Chinese in Michigan,
27:13
Speaker 1: none of these the tariffs that they've put on these
27:15
Speaker 1: auto parts. And then you've got Trump deciding he may
27:18
Speaker 1: pull out of his version of NAFTA that he calls
27:22
Speaker 1: the USMCA just completely pull out. Now, you know, as
27:26
Speaker 1: I remind people all the time, with Trump, follow what
27:29
Speaker 1: he does more than following. You should follow what he does,
27:32
Speaker 1: not always what he says. He says a lot of stuff.
27:34
Speaker 1: He talked about pulling out of the USMCA before, and
27:36
Speaker 1: he ended up signing a new deal. But that would
27:41
Speaker 1: be yet another gift to Democrats in an election year
27:45
Speaker 1: if he totally up ends both the Texas and Michigan
27:50
Speaker 1: economies and other economies by blowing up the USMCA. It's
27:55
Speaker 1: a fair question to ask yourself. Does Donald Trump care
27:58
Speaker 1: about the republic future of the Republican Party? I have
28:01
Speaker 1: contended here he does not. If there is no president,
28:06
Speaker 1: no Republican president elected after him, and while he's alive,
28:10
Speaker 1: he will see that as a victory, not as a disappointment.
28:15
Speaker 1: If he can make it clear that the only person
28:16
Speaker 1: that can win as a Republican is Donald Trump, he'd
28:20
Speaker 1: rather have that than to see the party grow. There
28:25
Speaker 1: is a selfishness to him. He's got this huge financial
28:31
Speaker 1: war chest that he's put together, all these different slush funds.
28:36
Speaker 1: Is he actually going to how much of it is
28:37
Speaker 1: he going to be willing to spend in the midterms.
28:40
Speaker 1: Is he going to spend it to help elect Republicans
28:44
Speaker 1: or is he going to spend it in order to
28:46
Speaker 1: focus on his grievances, right, I mean, look at all
28:50
Speaker 1: the money he's wasting against Thomas Massing in order to
28:54
Speaker 1: deal with a grievance. Or look what he's done in Louisiana.
28:59
Speaker 1: Now that's a safer way if he wanted to punish Cassidy.
29:02
Speaker 1: I politically understand why he does. But he's lucky that
29:07
Speaker 1: had John Bell Edwards, the last Democrats to win statewide
29:12
Speaker 1: in Louisiana, decided not to run for Senate. Now, I
29:15
Speaker 1: think it would be a big uphill battle, but that
29:19
Speaker 1: could have thrown that race into it tizzy. It is
29:27
Speaker 1: already hard enough for elected Republicans. And then the icing
29:32
Speaker 1: on the cake this week. If you're an elected Republican
29:36
Speaker 1: incumbent member of Congress, House or Senate, and you're trying
29:40
Speaker 1: to make the case to voters re elect that because
29:42
Speaker 1: we've got this great agenda, Donald Trump said no, no, no, no, no,
29:46
Speaker 1: I want no legislation passed this year. He said no
29:49
Speaker 1: to doing another reconciliation bill, which is an opportunity to
29:54
Speaker 1: use your congressional majorities to get more of your agenda through.
29:57
Speaker 1: He says, and oh, but I got everything I wanted
29:59
Speaker 1: from the one big, a full bill. Well, that's good
30:02
Speaker 1: for Donald Trump. That's a terrible message of Ryon, incumbent
30:05
Speaker 1: member of Congress. Yeah, okay, you did that. What else
30:07
Speaker 1: are you going to do? How come you didn't do
30:09
Speaker 1: anything this year? What are these tariffs doing? He is
30:14
Speaker 1: making it strategically forget just take your politics out of
30:19
Speaker 1: it a second. Strategically, Republicans have an opportunity to put together,
30:25
Speaker 1: you know, a party line bill of some sort. You know,
30:28
Speaker 1: maybe they could put some stuff in there that creates
30:30
Speaker 1: difficult votes for Democrats, but they don't know how to
30:36
Speaker 1: do politics one on one sometimes, and you have amateur
30:40
Speaker 1: hour speaker, you know, which is why you've seed like
30:44
Speaker 1: it is it is. You know, if you if you
30:47
Speaker 1: gave John Thune truth sirum and ask him what kind
30:50
Speaker 1: of partner Mike Johnson is? I think he would say,
30:52
Speaker 1: Mike Johnson's a nice guy who's weighing over his head.
30:57
Speaker 1: And Donald Trump doesn't care. And the message he's sending
31:01
Speaker 1: by no Reconciliation bill when he said no to doing
31:03
Speaker 1: another bill, which a bunch of Republicans wanted to do,
31:05
Speaker 1: is I really don't care about you. I don't care
31:10
Speaker 1: if you have nothing to run on. You just should
31:13
Speaker 1: just keep running on the one big beautiful bill. Okay,
31:16
Speaker 1: look he got a good job report this week. By
31:19
Speaker 1: the way, somebody ought to investigate. There's been some it's
31:23
Speaker 1: really bizarre. And this is a little bit of an aside.
31:25
Speaker 1: But Peter Navarro went on TV two days ago and said, Hey,
31:31
Speaker 1: this job's report. You know we're gonna you know, don't
31:34
Speaker 1: be prepared. This won't This may not be the best
31:37
Speaker 1: first jobs report. We've had a lot of deportations, it's
31:40
Speaker 1: having some there's some haywire. And then somebody made a
31:46
Speaker 1: lot of money on Calshi making a prediction that the
31:48
Speaker 1: job report was going to be a good job report. Somebody,
31:54
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask the question, are there administration officials
31:58
Speaker 1: that are saying certain things in public to move the
32:02
Speaker 1: prediction markets one way so they can cash in on
32:07
Speaker 1: them or their friends can cash in on them another way.
32:14
Speaker 1: I'm not saying, I'm just saying, first of all, this
32:18
Speaker 1: needs to be looked at. I mean literally, Peter Navarrow
32:23
Speaker 1: went on TV downplaying that this wasn't going to be
32:25
Speaker 1: a good jobs report, and it did affect the Calshie numbers.
32:31
Speaker 1: If you watch if you go back and look at it,
32:34
Speaker 1: go look at the at the line, and then all
32:37
Speaker 1: of a sudden the number to go over the forecasted
32:42
Speaker 1: number to make your bet. Somebody made some money either
32:53
Speaker 1: hedging Peter Navarro's prediction or they knew damn well what
32:57
Speaker 1: was going on. And this is why, folks, these prediction markets,
33:04
Speaker 1: when somebody knows the answer, are extraordinarily corruptible. They're going
33:09
Speaker 1: to be corruptible. Whether it's as silly as you know
33:13
Speaker 1: what you know, how long will the Caroline Levitt press
33:16
Speaker 1: briefing be the fact that you're allowed to bet on
33:19
Speaker 1: that seems like something that shouldn't be allowed, or excuse me,
33:23
Speaker 1: predict when you when you see something like this with
33:29
Speaker 1: the jobs report, where literally Peter Navarro win on Fox
33:32
Speaker 1: Business to downplay it, certainly sounded as if he already knew.
33:36
Speaker 1: In fact, some of us, you know, you saw what
33:39
Speaker 1: he said, and you're like, oh, I guess they're trying
33:42
Speaker 1: to get ahead of what they think is going to
33:43
Speaker 1: be a bad job report. Oh, by the way, why
33:46
Speaker 1: is it leaking out?
33:47
Speaker 2: Now?
33:47
Speaker 1: Why do this many people know about it? It's supposed
33:50
Speaker 1: to be embargo, it's supposed to be all that you're
33:52
Speaker 1: not supposed to be able to move markets like this,
33:54
Speaker 1: but then it turns out to the exact opposite. I'm
33:57
Speaker 1: just asking questions to say, a lot of other people
34:01
Speaker 1: need to be asking questions on this one. But it
34:05
Speaker 1: was a good jobs number. It's good jobs report. That's it.
34:09
Speaker 1: Maybe if it's sustainable, and maybe Republicans then run on
34:13
Speaker 1: more money in people's pockets if it indeed actually gets
34:17
Speaker 1: stay in their pockets. I think the concern I would
34:20
Speaker 1: have as an incumbent Republican is that when these tax
34:23
Speaker 1: rebates come and their tax refunds are there, that people
34:26
Speaker 1: are frustrated that this incredible new refund all had to
34:31
Speaker 1: go to paying for health care, higher electric bills, and
34:35
Speaker 1: higher food costs, and the refund disappears even faster than
34:40
Speaker 1: the refund they got a year ago. And how's that
34:44
Speaker 1: going to make them feel? By June or July? Are
34:46
Speaker 1: they going to love this economy? Then the point is
34:51
Speaker 1: what Trump has done the congressional Republicans is he's basically
34:55
Speaker 1: said it's either that or the party's doomed. Either. The
35:01
Speaker 1: big tax rebates that come to people are excite the
35:05
Speaker 1: electorate so much that it secures that makes people feel
35:12
Speaker 1: better and that somehow this antagonism against Trump starts to dissipate.
35:20
Speaker 1: Call me skeptical, but the bottom line is the biggest
35:24
Speaker 1: impediment right now for congressional Republicans to keep their majorities
35:31
Speaker 1: is their own president. He is standing in the way,
35:34
Speaker 1: and if Democrats win the Senate, they might only have
35:39
Speaker 1: Donald Trump to think considering how he's messed, how he's
35:43
Speaker 1: made the map harder for his own party. It's quite
35:49
Speaker 1: the feat. But again, if you know Donald Trump well
35:53
Speaker 1: cares more about Trump than he does the Republican Party.
35:55
Speaker 1: And it's something all Republicans need to be thinking about
35:59
Speaker 1: because any of these folks are going to get elected
36:03
Speaker 1: and in theory, be in office long after Donald Trump's
36:07
Speaker 1: running the party. So the point is, you see more
36:10
Speaker 1: Republicans willing to vote against him in Congress, more Republicans
36:14
Speaker 1: willing to come out against them, and there's a reason
36:17
Speaker 1: he's making their life harder. He's making their life a
36:21
Speaker 1: lot harder. All right, I'm gonna pivot to Paul Rykoff
36:26
Speaker 1: because you know, he's making a pitch for independence and
36:35
Speaker 1: basically supporting a lot of independent candidates running for state
36:38
Speaker 1: wide office but also running for local office. And you've
36:44
Speaker 1: heard me say, look, you know, you've got to figure
36:46
Speaker 1: out how to win the middle. But the question is
36:49
Speaker 1: what is the middle? And can you be of the middle.
36:51
Speaker 1: And I bring this up because I find it interesting
36:59
Speaker 1: what happened in Japan over the week over last weekend
37:03
Speaker 1: where the new prime minister basically she got she she
37:08
Speaker 1: ended up with essentially veto proof majorities in her legislature,
37:17
Speaker 1: and she ended up they her coalition did even better
37:21
Speaker 1: than they thought, right, And what's interesting is that she
37:26
Speaker 1: was able to defeat what was a centrist coalition right.
37:30
Speaker 1: That Centrist for form alliance was basically a shotgun wedding
37:36
Speaker 1: in Japan between the Constitutional Democratic Party and the Komu
37:41
Speaker 1: Okay and it was sort of center left, center right,
37:43
Speaker 1: was trying to trying to be a moderate alternative. And
37:45
Speaker 1: we've seen this, this happened in Israel and for a
37:48
Speaker 1: brief period of time a sort of model, a coalition
37:52
Speaker 1: of the others, right, everybody who didn't like Bibi got
37:55
Speaker 1: together and they were able to beat Bbe. But the
37:57
Speaker 1: problem is they couldn't do anything after that. And it
38:02
Speaker 1: is a reminder and I vacillate myself on this right,
38:05
Speaker 1: which is when people call themselves independent, are they also
38:09
Speaker 1: calling themselves centrist or moderate or are they simply saying, hey, no,
38:14
Speaker 1: I'm independent, all right, you can't put me in any box.
38:18
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean I don't say independent, because I'm only
38:20
Speaker 1: in the centrist box. And the fact is the centrist
38:25
Speaker 1: coalitions who have tried to sort of beat back a
38:30
Speaker 1: populist or beat backup populasty have struggled. Right, We've seen
38:34
Speaker 1: it in this country, right, You've got a coalition of
38:37
Speaker 1: AOC and Liz Cheney wanting to get rid of Donald
38:39
Speaker 1: Trump and trump Ism. But what the hell does this
38:43
Speaker 1: opposition to Trump stand for other than not being for Trump, right,
38:48
Speaker 1: being anti Trump? And so I think the real challenge,
38:53
Speaker 1: and Paul and I get into this a little bit.
38:55
Speaker 1: I think the real challenge for this movement of independence
38:58
Speaker 1: because as you know, like I think the parties are
39:00
Speaker 1: hurting us more than they're helping us right now. I
39:03
Speaker 1: think the country would be better served either if we
39:05
Speaker 1: had no parties or we had four national parties. Trying
39:09
Speaker 1: to fit everybody into two parties is quite difficult, right,
39:13
Speaker 1: you know, It's like going to the store T shirt
39:16
Speaker 1: store and finding out the only choices are you know,
39:19
Speaker 1: extra small and extra large, and you're like, I wear
39:23
Speaker 1: something somewhere in between.
39:24
Speaker 2: There.
39:28
Speaker 1: I absolutely think our politics would be easier to understand
39:33
Speaker 1: and we'd have more successful coalition politics is if we
39:36
Speaker 1: were correctly in our four parties, where there were no
39:40
Speaker 1: party could ever get control on their own, they had
39:42
Speaker 1: to work with one of the other three parties. But
39:47
Speaker 1: this is the world we're in, and it is and
39:50
Speaker 1: I think that it's a fair debate, and I like
39:53
Speaker 1: I say, I vacillated on this political you know, political
39:56
Speaker 1: science will tell you that if you're in the if
39:58
Speaker 1: you're sort of in the mushy middle, you're not going
40:02
Speaker 1: to please anybody. And yet if you alienate the middle,
40:07
Speaker 1: that's how you lose races. Right, So the question is
40:11
Speaker 1: it better to try to appeal to the middle or
40:14
Speaker 1: to force the middle to come to your side because
40:16
Speaker 1: they just can't stomach the other side? And what is
40:20
Speaker 1: a more durable governing coalition. I think we've seen, you know,
40:29
Speaker 1: the Cold War era allowed both parties to be more
40:34
Speaker 1: centrist once and because there was the concern about security
40:40
Speaker 1: and security of the country and nuclear war and war
40:44
Speaker 1: with the Soviets, and so it sort of it it's
40:49
Speaker 1: the public sort of was comfortable, sort of staying in
40:52
Speaker 1: between the thirty five yard lines. Once that threat ended,
40:57
Speaker 1: we saw more of our colorful spectrum of political ideology
41:06
Speaker 1: on display. And I think it's a fair I think
41:11
Speaker 1: it's a fair debate. Can you know, so, if you're
41:14
Speaker 1: going to try to win as an independent, you've got
41:16
Speaker 1: to stand for something, not just stand for compromise. And
41:20
Speaker 1: I think this has been the that was sort of
41:22
Speaker 1: the mistake of twenty twenty and the mistake of the
41:25
Speaker 1: Democrats in the Trump era of assuming what people wanted
41:29
Speaker 1: was was more compromised. They didn't want that, right, They
41:32
Speaker 1: they didn't like the old way of politics. They wanted
41:34
Speaker 1: a new way of politics. And Democrats were doing restoration
41:38
Speaker 1: and Donald Trump was saying, no, We're going to try
41:40
Speaker 1: something different. And ultimately they want a different not restoration.
41:45
Speaker 1: And yet Democrats can't win majorities in the House and
41:51
Speaker 1: the Senate without winning over the middle. So what is
41:54
Speaker 1: the best way to win the middle? I have to say,
41:57
Speaker 1: I think that's still an open question, and there are
42:00
Speaker 1: various theories of the case, and I think it's going
42:04
Speaker 1: to be a conversation. We're going to continue, but for
42:06
Speaker 1: right now, the conversation I'm going to have on this
42:10
Speaker 1: issue is with my friend Paul Rykoff, and we're going
42:12
Speaker 1: to talk to him right after this break. This episode
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Speaker 1: thirty percent off and joining me now is somebody I've
45:09
Speaker 1: known a long time. Somebody that I've would feature as
45:13
Speaker 1: much as possible in my NBC days. He is founder
45:17
Speaker 1: of the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America. He had
45:23
Speaker 1: been a fierce advocate and still is a fierce advocate
45:26
Speaker 1: for veterans when it appears the VA is not giving
45:32
Speaker 1: our returning soldiers the care and attention that they need.
45:36
Speaker 1: An he owes a terrific podcast Independence that's focused really
45:40
Speaker 1: on as he calls himself the angry middle, or he
45:43
Speaker 1: wants to be representative of the angry middle. As you know,
45:46
Speaker 1: that's sort of I think of politics from the middle out.
45:50
Speaker 1: I call myself an incrementalist. Paul calls himself an independent
45:56
Speaker 1: representing the angry middle. So that's going to be a
45:59
Speaker 1: lion's share of our conversation. We did a home and away.
46:01
Speaker 1: I was in his podcast earlier this month, so I
46:05
Speaker 1: appreciate him return in the favor of me. Mister Raikoff.
46:08
Speaker 1: Good to see man, Good.
46:10
Speaker 3: To see you, Chuck. I really appreciated you coming on mine.
46:12
Speaker 3: We had a great Super Bowl conversation too, Yeah we did.
46:15
Speaker 2: But folks, here you talk about politics, but when you
46:17
Speaker 2: talk about football it's even better.
46:19
Speaker 1: I mean, well, you know, I maybe even pocketed a
46:23
Speaker 1: couple of bucks with a very conventional wisdom. Super Bowl,
46:26
Speaker 1: it sort of went exactly like every expert said it
46:28
Speaker 1: would go.
46:29
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, it was also you know, it was
46:31
Speaker 2: a really good team super Bowl, and.
46:33
Speaker 3: Maybe that's more of what we need in America right now.
46:36
Speaker 3: I mean, it was old school blocking and tackling. I
46:38
Speaker 3: told my sons, like, even though I've got two young
46:40
Speaker 3: boys who play football, that was the best blocking game
46:43
Speaker 3: I've seen in a long time.
46:44
Speaker 2: Seattle is a really good blocking.
46:46
Speaker 3: Team working together eleven people, and that's kind of more
46:49
Speaker 3: what we need in America right now.
46:51
Speaker 1: Well that, well, this is why I'm I've always been
46:54
Speaker 1: a such a huge advocate of football, almost more so
46:58
Speaker 1: than every other team sport, because you know, you really
47:02
Speaker 1: have to row in the same direction. You have to
47:05
Speaker 1: have eleven guys doing their job. You cannot. You can.
47:09
Speaker 1: You can have a basketball team where four guys slack off,
47:12
Speaker 1: you can have a baseball team where there a few
47:14
Speaker 1: guys slack off. You cannot have it in football. And
47:17
Speaker 1: it's just it is such an important life skill to
47:22
Speaker 1: get across, which is why I'm happy to see flag football,
47:26
Speaker 1: which creates more gender opportunities gender equity there. I mean,
47:30
Speaker 1: I just think the whole concept of football is so
47:34
Speaker 1: team oriented. More so that it is. It is a
47:37
Speaker 1: great teaching tool.
47:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, it requires selflessness at a time when most sports
47:43
Speaker 3: are really about individuals. And look at me, and you know,
47:47
Speaker 3: I've coached football for many years, played football, played in college,
47:50
Speaker 3: and I don't.
47:50
Speaker 2: Think that there's anything like it because.
47:51
Speaker 3: It requires sacrifice, it requires teamwork, it requires cooperation, it
47:56
Speaker 3: requires forward planning. It's obviously strategic in terms of field position.
48:01
Speaker 2: And all the other elements. But I think it's the
48:03
Speaker 2: ultimate team game.
48:03
Speaker 3: And I've played rugby, I've played baseball, I've coached a
48:06
Speaker 3: lot of sports. It's very hard to teach young people
48:08
Speaker 3: because it's so complicated, but I think it really instills
48:11
Speaker 3: the values, and I think it reflects the cooperation and
48:15
Speaker 3: teamwork we need in democracy.
48:16
Speaker 2: You know, football is a lot like democracy.
48:18
Speaker 3: If we don't figure out a way to work together,
48:20
Speaker 3: things can get brutal real quick. And I feel like
48:22
Speaker 3: our democracy looks like Drake may under constant pressure and
48:25
Speaker 3: getting hit from all sides.
48:26
Speaker 1: Oh right, we have no left side of the offensive line.
48:30
Speaker 2: Right that four guys, I mean the left side's gone,
48:33
Speaker 2: the right side's gone, and we got to depend on
48:35
Speaker 2: the middle.
48:36
Speaker 1: Hey, before we leave football, since you have coached it
48:39
Speaker 1: and you watch it in a way that's probably not
48:42
Speaker 1: just from a fan perspective. It really does seem like
48:46
Speaker 1: in the last forty eight months, both in college and
48:50
Speaker 1: the pros, which is defense is not just caught up
48:53
Speaker 1: to offense. But I think we're now in a mode.
48:56
Speaker 1: I mean, it was you look at the college football
48:59
Speaker 1: playoffs and look Miami and Indiana one because of their defense.
49:03
Speaker 1: That's why they got to that finals. You know it
49:05
Speaker 1: was and you could say, well, look, you know, if
49:09
Speaker 1: a little better offensive performance by Miami, maybe they win
49:12
Speaker 1: that game. But the point being is that the defenses
49:15
Speaker 1: were the dominant. You know, Ole Miss didn't have one.
49:18
Speaker 1: That's why they They were limited in how far they
49:21
Speaker 1: could go. And we see it in what happened in
49:25
Speaker 1: the NFL this year, where it was the defensive teams
49:29
Speaker 1: and by the way, two defensive coaches making it to
49:32
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl, which might be a first.
49:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd build on that.
49:36
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, defense gets you to the championship,
49:39
Speaker 3: but defense is not the difference in the championship. And
49:42
Speaker 3: I think We've seen that in both the college game
49:44
Speaker 3: and in the pro game. And what I would tell
49:46
Speaker 3: you is it ultimately comes down to leadership, and it
49:48
Speaker 3: ultimately comes down to the quarterback, and it comes down
49:51
Speaker 3: to the quarterback. Who's not going to make the great play,
49:54
Speaker 3: but the quarterback makes the bad play. And we saw
49:56
Speaker 3: that in the Indiana game. You know, and your Carson
49:59
Speaker 3: Beck I was not.
49:59
Speaker 1: Re He had a bad play and Mendoza.
50:01
Speaker 3: Did everything else being equal, if Carson Beck makes those
50:04
Speaker 3: plays and Mendosa doesn't, it goes the other way. Drake
50:07
Speaker 3: may had an opportunity to make the game close. You know,
50:10
Speaker 3: in the third quarter, he throws a pick. He makes
50:12
Speaker 3: some bad throws. So I think it really there's nothing
50:15
Speaker 3: like being a quarterback on a football field. In leadership,
50:17
Speaker 3: it's kind of like elected office or an executive function.
50:20
Speaker 3: You think about a president or a governor. It's all
50:22
Speaker 3: eyes on the quarterback. And the quarterback is important too,
50:25
Speaker 3: because he doesn't just have to know his job.
50:27
Speaker 2: He has to know all.
50:28
Speaker 3: Eleven people's jobs every single time and has to be
50:31
Speaker 3: the ultimate coordinator. That's why, frankly, I'm excited about Mendoza
50:35
Speaker 3: as a role model for our culture.
50:37
Speaker 2: If this kid runs for political office, and I hope.
50:39
Speaker 3: He runs as an independent, He's exactly the kind of
50:42
Speaker 3: leader that people need. He's selfless, he's humble, he's kind.
50:47
Speaker 3: He's an example of the kind of leader that we need.
50:49
Speaker 3: I'm glad that he especially was elevated during this last
50:52
Speaker 3: couple of weeks.
50:53
Speaker 1: I'm with you, there's something you know. Sometimes some guys
50:56
Speaker 1: are too good to be true, and you're like, boy,
50:58
Speaker 1: I hope I'm not missing something here. Let me go
51:02
Speaker 1: a little bit. I know a little bit of your
51:05
Speaker 1: origin story, but I don't know if all my listeners do.
51:10
Speaker 1: How did you get into the military, Why did you
51:14
Speaker 1: and this is what you're doing now? What's an alternative
51:18
Speaker 1: path that you thought you'd be doing twenty years ago?
51:23
Speaker 2: Wow?
51:24
Speaker 3: Well, twenty years ago, I guess I was already out
51:27
Speaker 3: of college and the football dream was gone. But you know,
51:32
Speaker 3: I did not expect this kind of winding path. But
51:35
Speaker 3: it started with my time in the military, and it
51:37
Speaker 3: started with a sense of service.
51:38
Speaker 2: My father was drafted during Vietnam.
51:40
Speaker 3: My grandfather was drafted during World War Two and spent
51:43
Speaker 3: three years in the South Pacific, And I thought that
51:45
Speaker 3: was how everybody's family was when I was growing up,
51:47
Speaker 3: your third generation, I am, but you know I was
51:50
Speaker 3: the first to volunteer, which I think is also a
51:53
Speaker 3: reflection of our times, right. I mean, I came from
51:55
Speaker 3: an immigrant family. My grandfather immigrated from Germany and spoke
51:58
Speaker 3: no English. My grandmother and the other side came from Hungary.
52:01
Speaker 2: And spoke no English. But that generation they all served.
52:04
Speaker 3: My other grandmother had eleven brothers and sisters had nine brothers.
52:09
Speaker 3: All nine brothers served, all Italian Americans from the Bronx.
52:12
Speaker 2: They all served.
52:13
Speaker 3: So I came from a community and a family and
52:16
Speaker 3: a working class background where service was pretty much expected.
52:20
Speaker 3: I was the first one that didn't have to go,
52:22
Speaker 3: but I wanted to go. I wanted to give back.
52:23
Speaker 3: I wanted I felt like I owed it to my
52:26
Speaker 3: family and to my community and to my country.
52:28
Speaker 2: Because I was the first one that didn't have to go.
52:30
Speaker 3: I got to go to college, I got to play football,
52:33
Speaker 3: I got a great education. But I really wanted to
52:35
Speaker 3: give something back, and it came down to either the
52:37
Speaker 3: Peace Corps or the military.
52:39
Speaker 2: I viewed them both as ways to give back.
52:41
Speaker 3: And the military, you know, I wanted to jump out
52:43
Speaker 3: of airplanes and blow stuff up. And I also wanted
52:45
Speaker 3: to challenge myself in a way that I had never
52:47
Speaker 3: been tested before.
52:48
Speaker 2: And I think I got a lot of that. But
52:51
Speaker 2: it also sparked in me in understanding that politics.
52:55
Speaker 3: Impacts all of us, and maybe no more so acutely
52:58
Speaker 3: than when you're in the military. There's nothing more serious
53:00
Speaker 3: our politics can do than send young men and women
53:02
Speaker 3: to war. And that's what pulled me into activism, and
53:05
Speaker 3: that's what pulled me into this work, and frankly.
53:08
Speaker 2: Still drives me. Now.
53:09
Speaker 3: I want to fight for our country. I want to
53:10
Speaker 3: fight for our democracy in whatever way I can. And
53:13
Speaker 3: instead of a rifle, now I've got a microphone.
53:17
Speaker 1: What kind of scarred at Vietnam? Leave for your father?
53:20
Speaker 1: Because Vietnam scarred my father and he didn't serve, and
53:22
Speaker 1: I'll tell you the story in a minute, But what
53:24
Speaker 1: kind of scar did that lead?
53:26
Speaker 2: So my father got very lucky.
53:27
Speaker 3: He got drafted in nineteen sixty eight, but did not
53:30
Speaker 3: get sent to Vietnam, So he got sent to Europe.
53:33
Speaker 3: But you know, plenty of his buddies in the Bronx,
53:35
Speaker 3: you know, were killed. Guys he went to high school.
53:37
Speaker 3: He always told me the story of when how he
53:41
Speaker 3: found out he was getting drafted. My grandfather pulled out
53:44
Speaker 3: an envelope and he felt in the bottom of the envelope.
53:47
Speaker 3: It was from the government, and there was a subway
53:48
Speaker 3: token in it, and if you felt the subway token,
53:51
Speaker 3: you knew you were getting drafted. And my grandfather looked
53:53
Speaker 3: at my father and said, PAULI, you're getting drafted for Vietnam, right,
53:57
Speaker 3: And that was the way they found out. I think
53:59
Speaker 3: the real important thing, even more than the scarring, was
54:03
Speaker 3: there was a social accountability.
54:05
Speaker 2: Everybody felt like they had skin in.
54:06
Speaker 3: The game, except you know, for Donald Trump and some
54:09
Speaker 3: of the elites who got out of it. But there
54:11
Speaker 3: was an understanding that we were all in this together
54:13
Speaker 3: and there was that shared sacrifice. So my grandfather and
54:16
Speaker 3: my father will talk about the hard times, but they
54:18
Speaker 3: also talk about the unity. They talk about the diversity
54:21
Speaker 3: in different terms. They don't say diversity. But they all
54:24
Speaker 3: got out of a train together, they all went to
54:25
Speaker 3: basic together, and then they all went across the country.
54:28
Speaker 3: And my father is best man in his wedding was
54:30
Speaker 3: a guy who served in the army with from Chicago.
54:32
Speaker 3: They never knew each other until they went in the army.
54:34
Speaker 3: So those relationships I think are really important and maybe
54:38
Speaker 3: a bit of the silver lining from those times that
54:40
Speaker 3: we're missing right now, that social connection, that cohesion. But
54:43
Speaker 3: I've also worked with countless Vietnam vets. The scars are
54:46
Speaker 3: significant and I think also cresting now in some ways,
54:50
Speaker 3: Chuck that people don't understand. The suicide rate is now
54:53
Speaker 3: over seventeen per day, and many of them are older veterans.
54:57
Speaker 3: They're suffering from agent orange and tox and exposure.
55:00
Speaker 2: Mental health. COVID has been hard.
55:02
Speaker 3: They deal with isolation and economic stress, and I think
55:05
Speaker 3: these times are compounding a lot of things for veterans
55:08
Speaker 3: that are making it especially tough.
55:10
Speaker 2: Yeah.
55:11
Speaker 1: Look, my dad's best friend, he had a sort of
55:16
Speaker 1: the last few years of his childhood were kind of
55:18
Speaker 1: a mess with his father, in particular his mother, and
55:22
Speaker 1: his best friend, who's about a year or two older,
55:26
Speaker 1: dies in training in Pensacola after being drafted, and it
55:32
Speaker 1: just it made him obsessed with not going, and it
55:35
Speaker 1: made him obsess with it, and in fact, he ended up.
55:37
Speaker 1: He will say that the reason he became a Republican
55:41
Speaker 1: is he blamed Johnson for killing his best friend. That's
55:44
Speaker 1: how he viewed it. He viewed it very personally, and
55:46
Speaker 1: there were so many You're not alone, right these different ways.
55:48
Speaker 1: By the way, the other thing that I was it
55:51
Speaker 1: sort of it's made me and I'm curious how you
55:53
Speaker 1: feel about certain active I'll just tell you the person
55:56
Speaker 1: Richard Blumenthal. When Richard Blumenthal said he couldn't remember everything
56:01
Speaker 1: about about his draft status. When my dad died, I
56:06
Speaker 1: found a foul folder of every single piece of paper,
56:11
Speaker 1: every thing he needed to know about his draft status,
56:15
Speaker 1: about eligibility. And at first he was able, he was
56:19
Speaker 1: not eligible, and then he became elegron. He just ended
56:21
Speaker 1: up getting a high lottery number and he didn't have
56:24
Speaker 1: to get picked. But I remember thinking, and it was
56:26
Speaker 1: sort of one of those things that sixteen year old
56:28
Speaker 1: me said. You know, anybody of the Vietnam Era, if
56:31
Speaker 1: they tell you, oh, I don't remember how it happened,
56:34
Speaker 1: I don't remember bullshit you were. My father was obsessed
56:39
Speaker 1: with it. He had all and he kept it all.
56:40
Speaker 1: He saved it all. He felt like he had have
56:42
Speaker 1: all his record with him. So I've always found the
56:45
Speaker 1: easiest way to find out who a lying politician was
56:48
Speaker 1: from that was of eligible to serve in Vietnam, when
56:53
Speaker 1: they tell you they're not quite sure. They think they
56:56
Speaker 1: got this, they think they got that. They don't want
56:58
Speaker 1: to tell you the details.
56:59
Speaker 2: Yeah.
57:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, every guy I know who got drafted and remembers
57:02
Speaker 3: that moment.
57:03
Speaker 2: They knew the raft, the lottery, everything about it, right, Yeah.
57:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know, my father talked about it,
57:08
Speaker 3: and he knew when his buddies in high school went.
57:10
Speaker 2: You know.
57:10
Speaker 3: I think there's also something interesting about Vietnam check with
57:13
Speaker 3: regard to our politics, is the Vietnam veterans took so
57:16
Speaker 3: much of that angst and frustration and disillusionment, and they
57:20
Speaker 3: took it on personally in a way that we never have.
57:23
Speaker 3: And I don't know if any generation of American veterans has.
57:26
Speaker 2: Right. That was a generation where the country confused the.
57:29
Speaker 3: People with the politics, and I think it manifested itself
57:32
Speaker 3: in so many ways, all the way through to the
57:34
Speaker 3: fact that they might be the only generation of veterans
57:37
Speaker 3: that never had a president.
57:38
Speaker 2: They came close. And I talked to John McCain and
57:40
Speaker 2: other folks about this.
57:41
Speaker 3: There was a point where you had John McCain was
57:43
Speaker 3: a presidential candidate. John Kerry was a presidential candidate. At
57:46
Speaker 3: one point, I think there were three Vietnam veterans in
57:49
Speaker 3: Obama's cabinet.
57:50
Speaker 2: You had Shinseki Hegel and.
57:51
Speaker 3: Carrie and the number of Vietnam bets said, you know,
57:54
Speaker 3: we came close, but we never got the White House.
57:56
Speaker 1: It's the strangest thing, and I wonder if it really
57:59
Speaker 1: is that that they were that the public view of
58:07
Speaker 1: Vietnam veteran is too politically scarred to lead. Maybe they
58:10
Speaker 1: didn't say it that way.
58:12
Speaker 2: There was a lot of different like evolutions.
58:14
Speaker 3: If you think about like when Bob Kerrey was a
58:16
Speaker 3: presidential candidate. He's a friend and mentor and a Medal
58:19
Speaker 3: of Honor recipient, right, we were much more conflicted about it,
58:22
Speaker 3: even talking about Bill Clinton's lack of vel.
58:24
Speaker 1: Bob and Bob Carey story only got more complicated the
58:27
Speaker 1: more we learned about his Medal of Honor, you know.
58:30
Speaker 2: Right, right.
58:30
Speaker 3: But I think I think the the insight is that
58:34
Speaker 3: the political trajectory of Vietnam veterans is a reflection of
58:38
Speaker 3: the way the country processed all of it. And at
58:40
Speaker 3: the end of the day, they never elected a Vietnam
58:42
Speaker 3: better now now now flip that around, now We've got
58:45
Speaker 3: a vice president who was the first post nine to
58:47
Speaker 3: eleven veteran in jd Vance. Trump has loaded up his
58:50
Speaker 3: cabinet with with veterans the Democrats. I have Reuben Diego
58:54
Speaker 3: on my show today. I mean, he's a post nine
58:56
Speaker 3: to eleven veteran. We have long said that we think
58:59
Speaker 3: we will have a post nine to eleven veteran in
59:01
Speaker 3: the White House. You'll probably have a couple, and you
59:03
Speaker 3: can envision any number of scenarios from Pete XXth to
59:06
Speaker 3: Wes Moore, everybody in between.
59:09
Speaker 2: There's a unique moment for them to meet right now.
59:12
Speaker 3: And also, I think reset the way the country understands service.
59:16
Speaker 1: Are you surprised that the scars from Iraq and Afghanistan
59:20
Speaker 1: and didn't hit our politics the same way Vietnam did?
59:29
Speaker 3: I mean, I think we're still processing it, Chuck. I mean,
59:31
Speaker 3: I think there's a different part of our politics, which
59:34
Speaker 3: is we were the first generation that went to war
59:38
Speaker 3: while most of America lived life uninterrupted. Right we were
59:41
Speaker 3: the first pro tact job of the all volunteer military.
59:45
Speaker 2: So I think we're still processing now.
59:47
Speaker 3: When Trump can strike Venezuela or talk about hitting Iran
59:51
Speaker 3: because it's other people's children, and I think that maybe
59:54
Speaker 3: that is one of the most important things to understand
59:56
Speaker 3: about this time, is that the all volunteer military is
59:59
Speaker 3: great for them military, but I would argue it's terrible
1:00:02
Speaker 3: for our democracy because there is no social connectivity, there
1:00:05
Speaker 3: is no backstop. And that's why I work so much
1:00:07
Speaker 3: with independent veterans, because they don't want to pick a side, right.
1:00:10
Speaker 3: So many of them view themselves as country first, and
1:00:13
Speaker 3: they're like, hey, I'm wearing a camouflage uniform.
1:00:14
Speaker 2: I don't want to choose blue or red. I want
1:00:16
Speaker 2: to keep camouflage.
1:00:17
Speaker 1: I want to stay true.
1:00:18
Speaker 3: And I think it's very exciting to understand that so
1:00:21
Speaker 3: many of them are there and they want to serve,
1:00:23
Speaker 3: especially in this moment. So I think we're still processing it,
1:00:27
Speaker 3: processing nine to eleven, processing the manipulation.
1:00:31
Speaker 2: Around the Iraq War, and even you know, rewriting history.
1:00:34
Speaker 3: If you look at someone like Hegseth, you know he's
1:00:36
Speaker 3: talking about Iraq and Afghanistan in very different terms. He's
1:00:40
Speaker 3: talking about being okay with leaving the Geneva Convention, being
1:00:43
Speaker 3: okay with getting out of NATO, stuff that would have
1:00:45
Speaker 3: been unimaginable even just twenty years ago, and he could
1:00:48
Speaker 3: do it in part because he's kind of cloaked in
1:00:51
Speaker 3: that veterans status, and I think both parties use it.
1:00:54
Speaker 3: They understand that veterans are uniquely powerful politically, but so far,
1:00:58
Speaker 3: for the most part, they've also been proxy for both parties,
1:01:01
Speaker 3: and that may be true all the way to the
1:01:03
Speaker 3: twenty twenty eight election, where you could have a Democrat
1:01:05
Speaker 3: and Republican veat against each other.
1:01:16
Speaker 2: What do you.
1:01:20
Speaker 1: At what point do you worry about how military recruiting
1:01:24
Speaker 1: is changing under Pete hegsett.
1:01:27
Speaker 2: Every day all day.
1:01:28
Speaker 3: I mean, I think that you and I have talked
1:01:30
Speaker 3: about this a bit, but maybe not on your show.
1:01:32
Speaker 3: I think it's really important to understand that Trump's strategy,
1:01:36
Speaker 3: in my view, has been extremely focused and extremely effective,
1:01:39
Speaker 3: and in his view, he wanted to transform the way
1:01:42
Speaker 3: the country operated, and the most important place to start
1:01:47
Speaker 3: was the Pentagon. That's why he nominated Hegseet first, a
1:01:50
Speaker 3: person that many of us know and thought would never
1:01:52
Speaker 3: get through a Senate confirmation hearing. But he threw the
1:01:55
Speaker 3: long ball and he got hegg Set through, and that
1:01:57
Speaker 3: really bust open a hole for Tulsey, Gabbard and Kennedy
1:02:02
Speaker 3: and so many others that would have normally seemed like
1:02:04
Speaker 3: a long shot, but they went for the Pentagon first
1:02:07
Speaker 3: because it's the most powerful, it's the biggest budget, it's
1:02:10
Speaker 3: got tremendous cultural influence, it's easy to.
1:02:13
Speaker 2: Move, and it's where the guns are.
1:02:15
Speaker 3: So when they secured the Pentagon, it was kind of
1:02:17
Speaker 3: the first chess piece on the board, and that allowed
1:02:20
Speaker 3: them to put in place, in my view, a culture warrior,
1:02:23
Speaker 3: because that's what Hegseth is And if you want to
1:02:25
Speaker 3: wage culture war, you started the Pentagon and you move outward.
1:02:28
Speaker 3: So I'm very concerned because the Pentagon is how Trump
1:02:32
Speaker 3: wants the rest of the world to look. That is
1:02:34
Speaker 3: more male, more white, less diverse, less politically diverse, which
1:02:39
Speaker 3: is maybe the most alarming. We don't want it to
1:02:42
Speaker 3: be a maga army, but if you continue to drive
1:02:45
Speaker 3: people away who don't feel welcome, it will increasingly become
1:02:49
Speaker 3: politically monolithic.
1:02:51
Speaker 2: It'll become gender monolithic. And we see that already.
1:02:54
Speaker 3: So you can goose the numbers in the beginning and say, hey,
1:02:57
Speaker 3: we've got tremendous recruiting, but that is not sustainable over time,
1:03:00
Speaker 3: and you have to ask a question of quality right,
1:03:03
Speaker 3: what kind of military are we building? And the reality
1:03:06
Speaker 3: is people can see what ICE looks like. The military
1:03:09
Speaker 3: is more and more looking like Ice, but you don't
1:03:11
Speaker 3: see them. They're on military.
1:03:13
Speaker 1: I'm just going to say the ICE recruit, Look, you recruit,
1:03:16
Speaker 1: how you recruit is what type of force you're going
1:03:19
Speaker 1: to build? Right? And those ICE recruitment videos, excuse me?
1:03:26
Speaker 1: Were they where they specifically addressed blue cities? I remember,
1:03:30
Speaker 1: you know, I'm we started our conversation with football. I'm
1:03:33
Speaker 1: an obsessive college football guy. And what was interesting this
1:03:36
Speaker 1: fall is how often you'd see during these football games,
1:03:40
Speaker 1: whatever market was the primary market of whatever team lived,
1:03:44
Speaker 1: it would you know, so you're watching a University of
1:03:47
Speaker 1: Washington game, you get this ad that said, hey, Seattle
1:03:50
Speaker 1: law enforcement, are you tired of not being able to
1:03:53
Speaker 1: do your job?
1:03:54
Speaker 2: Right?
1:03:54
Speaker 1: It's this, it's this sort of negative pitch. You know, well,
1:03:59
Speaker 1: guess what if you come to ICE, We're going to
1:04:01
Speaker 1: first of all, throw a bunch of money at you,
1:04:03
Speaker 1: fifty grand signing bonus, which is that's a big chunk
1:04:06
Speaker 1: of change. That's that is that gets you out of debt,
1:04:09
Speaker 1: that's a that's a get me out of student debt.
1:04:11
Speaker 1: That's a right size, that's a down payment on a house,
1:04:14
Speaker 1: that's a it's life changing. Fifty grand is is both
1:04:17
Speaker 1: is a lot of money for a lot of people.
1:04:20
Speaker 1: And it can it can alter, it can it can
1:04:22
Speaker 1: accelerate a path in life. But you're recruiting them on this,
1:04:27
Speaker 1: you don't get to do your job. And essentially you're
1:04:29
Speaker 1: saying it's it's going to appeal to a certain type
1:04:33
Speaker 1: of law enforcement official. Are you seeing those same tactics
1:04:38
Speaker 1: in military and it should? Are more of our friends
1:04:42
Speaker 1: in the press corps missing a story here?
1:04:45
Speaker 2: Yes?
1:04:46
Speaker 3: I mean you know, I've long said that Trump wants
1:04:49
Speaker 3: to transform society. He wants to transform the Western hemisphere,
1:04:52
Speaker 3: and he'd probably love to transform the whole world.
1:04:55
Speaker 2: And if you want to see what.
1:04:56
Speaker 3: It looks like, it does look like the Department of Defense.
1:04:59
Speaker 3: And let me go as deeper, things like book banning. Right,
1:05:02
Speaker 3: when they decide what books they want to ban, they
1:05:04
Speaker 3: can do them at military schools because the military has
1:05:07
Speaker 3: to do what you say, right, And it's not like
1:05:09
Speaker 3: you're going to go into Cincinnati or into Miami and
1:05:12
Speaker 3: have a debate with the school board. If the Secretary
1:05:14
Speaker 3: Defense is these books are gone.
1:05:15
Speaker 2: They're gone.
1:05:16
Speaker 3: They can restrict women's rights, they can restrict abortion access,
1:05:19
Speaker 3: they can change recruiting quotas, so they can move the
1:05:22
Speaker 3: edges in ways that will transform the complexion of what
1:05:25
Speaker 3: the military looks like. And yes, I think the most
1:05:28
Speaker 3: important one of the most important stories is that the
1:05:31
Speaker 3: military is becoming more partisan. It's becoming more politicized, in
1:05:35
Speaker 3: part because it's built in the image of Hegseth, who,
1:05:38
Speaker 3: in my view, is the most overtly political Secretary of
1:05:41
Speaker 3: Defense we've ever had. I do think he's a culture warrior.
1:05:44
Speaker 3: He's got an ideological approach to the way he wants
1:05:46
Speaker 3: to transform not just the military, but our culture.
1:05:49
Speaker 2: That includes an emphasis on Chaplains.
1:05:52
Speaker 3: For example, if you hear Hegseth talk, he's not doing
1:05:55
Speaker 3: Jewish prayers, he's not talking to agnostics and atheists.
1:05:58
Speaker 2: It is Christianity. It is a lot of white men.
1:06:01
Speaker 3: It has really attacked diversity, and they openly say they want.
1:06:05
Speaker 2: To destroy DEI, right.
1:06:08
Speaker 3: I think it's important for people to understand that the
1:06:10
Speaker 3: first real DEI initiative in modern times was for veterans.
1:06:14
Speaker 3: There's a veteran's preference in hiring at the Pentagon at
1:06:17
Speaker 3: the VA across the entire federal government.
1:06:20
Speaker 2: But that's a water's edge that they haven't hit yet.
1:06:23
Speaker 3: So I do think the overall transformation of the Pentagon
1:06:26
Speaker 3: is very very important. And I think the biggest story
1:06:28
Speaker 3: in America, and I've said this to anybody I can
1:06:31
Speaker 3: talk to, is that Donald Trump can do anything he
1:06:33
Speaker 3: wants with the most powerful military the world has ever seen,
1:06:36
Speaker 3: and nothing stopping it. He can bomb rn he can
1:06:40
Speaker 3: send them into American cities, he can remove women from
1:06:43
Speaker 3: combat arms. He can do anything he wants with this military,
1:06:46
Speaker 3: and almost nothing has stopped him. And the Congress, in
1:06:49
Speaker 3: my view, has completely abdicated their responsibility. And I do
1:06:52
Speaker 3: think that the Press Corps especially has a failure of
1:06:56
Speaker 3: imagination around what he can do with the military. To
1:06:59
Speaker 3: the most immediate threat, which I would argue is the
1:07:01
Speaker 3: Insurrection Act. He can invoke the Insurrection Act at any minute.
1:07:05
Speaker 2: Congress won't stop him.
1:07:06
Speaker 3: He'll send the eleventh Airborn Corps into, for example, Minneapolis,
1:07:10
Speaker 3: and Congress will be protesting afterward. But the eleventh Airborn
1:07:13
Speaker 3: Corp Will be in Minneapolis in the same way he's
1:07:16
Speaker 3: deployed ice and the same way he's deployed federalized troops
1:07:19
Speaker 3: in other places, and I think that will be a
1:07:22
Speaker 3: very important break class moment.
1:07:24
Speaker 2: For our country.
1:07:25
Speaker 1: So it sounds like that what you're saying is that
1:07:27
Speaker 1: more people are to see what's happening. Right now, it's
1:07:31
Speaker 1: really hard to report on the military. Mean, look what
1:07:32
Speaker 1: they just did to the Stars and Stripes publication.
1:07:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I.
1:07:37
Speaker 3: Mean it's in part hard to report in the military
1:07:39
Speaker 3: because they're totally stone walling the press.
1:07:41
Speaker 2: They've removed the Pentagon Press Corps.
1:07:43
Speaker 3: They've replaced it with what I call the Propaganda Press Corps,
1:07:46
Speaker 3: which is Laura Lumer. It's hard to guys TV Network, right,
1:07:50
Speaker 3: but even this Chuck, they haven't done a press conference
1:07:52
Speaker 3: with them in two months, right, they haven't even done
1:07:55
Speaker 3: one with them. And so some of these right wing
1:07:57
Speaker 3: activists Matt Gates and others are pissed off because they're
1:08:01
Speaker 3: not getting information and they're not getting access. So I
1:08:03
Speaker 3: do think again that their war on the press started
1:08:06
Speaker 3: in de Pentagon before they came after guys like Don Lemon.
1:08:09
Speaker 3: They were removing the Pentagon Press Corp and kicking out
1:08:12
Speaker 3: the Washington Post.
1:08:13
Speaker 2: And it's all in coordination.
1:08:15
Speaker 3: Because if there is no oversight over where you're moving
1:08:18
Speaker 3: troops or even when troops die. Right, We're not getting
1:08:21
Speaker 3: casualty reports about where troops are dying, how many are wounded,
1:08:26
Speaker 3: how they're doing, and not to mention they struck another
1:08:29
Speaker 3: boat last night off the coast of Venezuela, Right, and
1:08:32
Speaker 3: there was a survivor, Chuck. Let me give you an example.
1:08:34
Speaker 3: There was a survivor. We don't know who that survivor is,
1:08:37
Speaker 3: we don't know where they've gone, we don't know if
1:08:39
Speaker 3: they've been interrogated. It just kind of goes away, and
1:08:42
Speaker 3: we still haven't had the conversations about war crimes and accountability.
1:08:46
Speaker 3: So I think the number one focal point for everybody
1:08:49
Speaker 3: should be national security because it's where they've got the nukes,
1:08:52
Speaker 3: it's where they've got the tanks, it's where they've got
1:08:53
Speaker 3: the national Guard, and it's where they literally could put
1:08:56
Speaker 3: troops on your corner if they want to.
1:09:00
Speaker 1: It's literally the most dangerous part of government if it
1:09:04
Speaker 1: gets partisanized. Yeah right, Yeah, it's the biggest weapon that
1:09:10
Speaker 1: can be used.
1:09:11
Speaker 3: And not just not just partisanized, Chuck, but totally unchecked.
1:09:16
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:09:16
Speaker 3: Right, I mean, you know, if you've got a let's
1:09:18
Speaker 3: say he's whimsical at best. If Trump decides he wants
1:09:21
Speaker 3: to strike Mexico, he will do it, and then Congress
1:09:25
Speaker 3: and Blumenthal and everyone else will whind about it afterward.
1:09:28
Speaker 2: Right.
1:09:28
Speaker 3: I mean, he is all gas and no breaks, and
1:09:31
Speaker 3: nothing is slowing him down. Even for example, when the
1:09:34
Speaker 3: courts ruled in Washington, d C. That the National Guard
1:09:37
Speaker 3: deployments were illegal, they claim they filed for an extension
1:09:41
Speaker 3: because the two National Guard troops were shot in the
1:09:43
Speaker 3: head and they got it.
1:09:44
Speaker 2: So those national Guard troops are still in DC.
1:09:47
Speaker 3: Right, so he can even push away the courts, find
1:09:51
Speaker 3: an excuse, find a reason. And I think the overall
1:09:53
Speaker 3: strategic landscape that people need to understand is he continues
1:09:57
Speaker 3: to push with the military n ice and kind of
1:09:59
Speaker 3: toggle deeper and further without any real block or slow
1:10:04
Speaker 3: down from Congress or anyone else.
1:10:05
Speaker 2: The only thing stopping him is himself.
1:10:08
Speaker 3: And maybe Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Dan Kane,
1:10:11
Speaker 3: who might be the single most important person in America
1:10:13
Speaker 3: because he's probably the only one stopping Trump from doing
1:10:17
Speaker 3: whatever else he wants to do.
1:10:19
Speaker 1: What's what we saw with Milly in the first term. Right,
1:10:22
Speaker 1: And you know, I feel like Millie has become a
1:10:25
Speaker 1: polarizing figure to some where. Simply he was just trying
1:10:29
Speaker 1: to preserve preserve norms, Like he didn't do anything outwardly politically.
1:10:34
Speaker 1: He was just trying to preserve the apolitical status of
1:10:38
Speaker 1: the US uniformed military.
1:10:43
Speaker 3: I mean, there's an old saying in the Marine Corps,
1:10:44
Speaker 3: no better friend, no worse enemy, and I think that
1:10:48
Speaker 3: that is true in politics when it comes to veterans. Right,
1:10:51
Speaker 3: if you've got Pete Hegseth on your side, and you
1:10:53
Speaker 3: can wrap him in the American flag, and he can
1:10:55
Speaker 3: do lots of pull ups, and he can talk the
1:10:57
Speaker 3: tough talk. He's a very formidable political act. And let's
1:11:00
Speaker 3: use the flip side. You got somebody like Senator Mark Kelly,
1:11:03
Speaker 3: who Trump is focusing on because he's uniquely effective, because
1:11:07
Speaker 3: he's an astronaut. Because also, I think an underreported story, Chuck,
1:11:11
Speaker 3: if you can shut up Mark Kelly, you can send
1:11:14
Speaker 3: a chilling effect across two million military retirees in America,
1:11:18
Speaker 3: because they don't just want to shut up Mark Kelly,
1:11:20
Speaker 3: they want to shut up me. Any other veteran who
1:11:22
Speaker 3: can be uniquely effective in pushing back on any of
1:11:24
Speaker 3: these issues we've talked about. So I think it's really
1:11:27
Speaker 3: important to note that in this term especially, Trump has
1:11:30
Speaker 3: been extremely strategic, and I think he's on.
1:11:33
Speaker 2: Plan, or even ahead of plan.
1:11:34
Speaker 3: Imagine how far he'd be if Hegseth wasn't screwing up
1:11:36
Speaker 3: all the time.
1:11:37
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, Imagine how much further they would be
1:11:40
Speaker 2: toward their goals.
1:11:41
Speaker 3: In twenty twenty five for Trump, in my view, was
1:11:43
Speaker 3: about dominating America. Twenty twenty six is about dominating the
1:11:47
Speaker 3: Western hemisphere, from Greenland to Venezuela to potentially Cuba and
1:11:52
Speaker 3: other places in between.
1:11:53
Speaker 1: What's your historical analysis as to why Democrats, why why
1:12:01
Speaker 1: many active military veterans just pause a little bit more
1:12:07
Speaker 1: when it comes to democratic leadership of the military than
1:12:10
Speaker 1: Republican leadership of the military.
1:12:12
Speaker 3: You know, I think that's an oversimplification that's changed the bay.
1:12:15
Speaker 1: I hear that. I know I'm oversimplifizing.
1:12:18
Speaker 2: Look I go back.
1:12:20
Speaker 1: Look the fact is a majority of veterans voted for
1:12:22
Speaker 1: Bush over Kerry. That's true, yeah, you know, but a
1:12:26
Speaker 1: majority of veterans in the Obama you know, it was
1:12:29
Speaker 1: a pretty sizeable victory over McCain. But a majority veterans
1:12:32
Speaker 1: support McCain.
1:12:33
Speaker 3: I believe, yeah, I think you know, veterans are a
1:12:36
Speaker 3: reflection of the country, right, And if you took a
1:12:38
Speaker 3: group of older white men who tend to be from
1:12:41
Speaker 3: the South, they're going to vote Republican, right, and and
1:12:44
Speaker 3: that you know, that's what the officer corps looks like
1:12:46
Speaker 3: in the military.
1:12:47
Speaker 1: So it's more you almost it's almost more where that
1:12:50
Speaker 1: it's it's more of I always say, we're all born
1:12:52
Speaker 1: with original bias, literally where you're born, who you're born to,
1:12:56
Speaker 1: all of that's that has It's not the military it's
1:13:00
Speaker 1: self that pushes veterans to lean right. It's their own
1:13:04
Speaker 1: cultural essentially formation as a child that makes them lean right.
1:13:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, And the military kind of like football, is like
1:13:13
Speaker 3: a family affair. I mean, the oversimplification is that there's
1:13:17
Speaker 3: kind of three kinds.
1:13:18
Speaker 2: Of people who join the military nowadays. Right.
1:13:20
Speaker 3: It's people who join because they're family joined it was
1:13:22
Speaker 3: a family business, or it's part of their legacy.
1:13:24
Speaker 2: Right.
1:13:25
Speaker 3: There's people who yeah, and then there's people who legitimately
1:13:28
Speaker 3: want to serve. Right, this is maybe the smallest percentage
1:13:31
Speaker 3: the folks that want to fight the good fight, or
1:13:33
Speaker 3: they want to give back and then there's a lot
1:13:34
Speaker 3: of people who need health care or want the money
1:13:36
Speaker 3: for school. And I think that that's an important subset too,
1:13:39
Speaker 3: because the enlisted ranks, especially prior to this administration, tended
1:13:43
Speaker 3: to be more diverse ethnically racially in terms of gender,
1:13:47
Speaker 3: and they were more gettable for Democrats, and they tended
1:13:50
Speaker 3: to vote more Democrat. Right now, the veterans population is different.
1:13:53
Speaker 3: That's nineteen million people who have gotten out. They tend
1:13:56
Speaker 3: to be older white men, and older white men tend
1:13:59
Speaker 3: to vote republic So I think what's really interesting is
1:14:03
Speaker 3: that over fifty percent of veterans and active duty are independent,
1:14:08
Speaker 3: politically unaffiliated, and they haven't had a home, so a
1:14:11
Speaker 3: lot of them stay on the sidelines. They will sometimes
1:14:13
Speaker 3: choose a John McCain or they'll choose a John Kerry,
1:14:16
Speaker 3: and I do think they tend to gravitate toward another veterans.
1:14:19
Speaker 3: But the reality is they're looking for a Mark Millie,
1:14:22
Speaker 3: they're looking for a Colin Powell. They're looking for an
1:14:24
Speaker 3: Admiral mccraven, who's an example I know you will give.
1:14:27
Speaker 3: And they're like most Americans. Most Americans are independent. Now
1:14:31
Speaker 3: forty five percent was the last gallup poll only twenty
1:14:33
Speaker 3: seven percent of Democrats and Republicans.
1:14:36
Speaker 2: Those numbers are shrinking in the military too.
1:14:38
Speaker 3: On a trajectory basis, now you do have Republicans and
1:14:42
Speaker 3: Fox News watchers and petext fans that are over indexing
1:14:46
Speaker 3: in the military right now, But if you look at
1:14:48
Speaker 3: it longitudinally, they are reflective of where the elector is
1:14:52
Speaker 3: for the most part.
1:14:56
Speaker 1: When you look at the twenty eight field, you know,
1:14:58
Speaker 1: it's fascinating to see that essentially we haven't elected a
1:15:05
Speaker 1: military veteran as president since George H. W.
1:15:07
Speaker 2: Bush.
1:15:09
Speaker 1: I think some would argue national guard service. With George W. Bush,
1:15:12
Speaker 1: I'll put that in the it's it's somewhere in the middle.
1:15:17
Speaker 1: Where do you I mean, no, as a military veteran,
1:15:19
Speaker 1: where do you put that? Where do you put national
1:15:21
Speaker 1: guard service?
1:15:22
Speaker 3: I mean it's better than nothing, right, But he's not
1:15:26
Speaker 3: a combat.
1:15:26
Speaker 1: And it's different today. Right if you were the National
1:15:29
Speaker 1: Guard in the twenty first century, you may have been
1:15:31
Speaker 1: sent overseas. I think when the National Guard of the
1:15:34
Speaker 1: sixties or seventies, you weren't right.
1:15:35
Speaker 3: And too often this becomes like a keeping up with
1:15:37
Speaker 3: the Joneses thing within the military. But I think for veterans.
1:15:40
Speaker 3: Have you served at all? That's important, right. I think
1:15:42
Speaker 3: that's important to the country as well. Have you put
1:15:45
Speaker 3: the country ahead of yourself and to me doing National Guard? Yeah,
1:15:48
Speaker 3: all right, in anywhere, that's plenty of folks, more than
1:15:50
Speaker 3: most people. Yeah, But then combat service is important in
1:15:53
Speaker 3: understanding the human cost of war up front, having your
1:15:56
Speaker 3: buddies die, you know, knowing what it's like to write
1:15:59
Speaker 3: a letter home to your mother in case you're killed.
1:16:01
Speaker 3: John Kerry understood that. George Bush the first understood that.
1:16:05
Speaker 3: And I think now you're going to have a generation
1:16:07
Speaker 3: from both the Republican and the Democratic Party that understands that.
1:16:11
Speaker 3: And I think these are actually the people to watch, Chuck.
1:16:13
Speaker 3: I mean, Jade Vance is obviously on the playing field.
1:16:16
Speaker 3: Who knows what hegseth is. You've got people like Tom Cotton,
1:16:20
Speaker 3: Ron DeSantis served in the Navy. Almost every one of
1:16:23
Speaker 3: them has got some kind of military service. On the
1:16:25
Speaker 3: other side, you've got Mark Kelly, who we've talked about.
1:16:27
Speaker 3: You've got Reuben Diego, You've got Mikey Cheryl, the governor
1:16:31
Speaker 3: of New Jersey.
1:16:31
Speaker 2: You've got Wes Moore in Maryland.
1:16:33
Speaker 3: I mean, they all have some kind of military service
1:16:36
Speaker 3: and combat experience. Now how they view that combat experience
1:16:40
Speaker 3: is dramatically different, and that's why I argue they're often
1:16:42
Speaker 3: proxies for the parties, but they are very effective proxies
1:16:46
Speaker 3: for the party so far. And I think that was
1:16:47
Speaker 3: an under reported part of Mikey Cheryl's victory, Spanberger's victory.
1:16:52
Speaker 3: They were able to appeal to a broad swath and
1:16:54
Speaker 3: especially to independence because of their national security experience, because
1:16:58
Speaker 3: of their veterans experience, and they're leading with that because
1:17:01
Speaker 3: most of all, Chuck, it establishes trust, and I think
1:17:04
Speaker 3: people don't trust politicians, they don't trust authenticity, they don't
1:17:08
Speaker 3: trust that they're going to fight for them, And there's
1:17:10
Speaker 3: a natural baked in respect for veterans that can transcend
1:17:15
Speaker 3: party in a way that almost nothing else can. Maybe
1:17:18
Speaker 3: celebrity and money, but veterans are kind of like a
1:17:21
Speaker 3: secret superpower in politics that can always work.
1:17:24
Speaker 1: That's where why you and I are so in line
1:17:27
Speaker 1: on this. I think that I certainly view it this
1:17:30
Speaker 1: way for when we're trying to repair something that's broken
1:17:34
Speaker 1: in the moment right and the r right now, where
1:17:36
Speaker 1: our politics is broken, and are a military veteran might
1:17:41
Speaker 1: be the best way to go. And frankly, it's not
1:17:44
Speaker 1: lost on me. And I think I said this to
1:17:46
Speaker 1: you before that for me, there are two presidents that
1:17:49
Speaker 1: stand out as being the closest we've ever had to
1:17:51
Speaker 1: actually having independence as presidents, people that truly did put
1:17:56
Speaker 1: country over party. One was our first one, and he's
1:18:02
Speaker 1: got plenty of receipts to prove that one and the
1:18:04
Speaker 1: other's Eisenhower, and I don't really think there's anybody else
1:18:07
Speaker 1: that comes close. Do you concur with that or do
1:18:11
Speaker 1: you think I mean a.
1:18:12
Speaker 2: Different roll of the dice.
1:18:13
Speaker 3: And it could have been Colin Powell, right, Colin Powell
1:18:15
Speaker 3: could have been the first African American president, you know,
1:18:17
Speaker 3: first black president in history, right, if it had gone differently.
1:18:20
Speaker 2: And I think that's important to.
1:18:22
Speaker 3: Recognize too, because at that time he had a unique
1:18:24
Speaker 3: credibility and popularity in the country that was probably even
1:18:29
Speaker 3: higher than John McCain or.
1:18:30
Speaker 2: Someone like that.
1:18:31
Speaker 3: Right, So there was there was a potential opportunity there.
1:18:34
Speaker 3: But I do see especially at the local level, and
1:18:37
Speaker 3: this is what I'm doing now with Independent Veterans of America.
1:18:40
Speaker 2: We're running one hundred candidates this fall.
1:18:42
Speaker 3: We're running as many as seven or eight for Senate,
1:18:44
Speaker 3: who I think will be competitive in places.
1:18:46
Speaker 2: Where Democrats are Republicans can.
1:18:48
Speaker 3: But at the local level, mayor's school board, county executives,
1:18:52
Speaker 3: people don't want a partisan school board representative, right, you shouldn't.
1:18:57
Speaker 3: I my view, you shouldn't have a Republican or a
1:18:58
Speaker 3: democratic school board. And veterans are now stepping up and
1:19:02
Speaker 3: they want to run, but we have to help create
1:19:04
Speaker 3: a pathway where they can be viable, where they can
1:19:06
Speaker 3: get ballid access, where they can compete with the big
1:19:08
Speaker 3: money and the parties, where we can have open primaries,
1:19:11
Speaker 3: something I know you've talked about.
1:19:12
Speaker 2: And focused on.
1:19:13
Speaker 3: But if the field is leveled, veterans will serve and
1:19:17
Speaker 3: they can get things done. They can be pragmatic, they
1:19:19
Speaker 3: can represent everybody, and they can represent what is the
1:19:22
Speaker 3: biggest voting block now in the country, the forty five
1:19:25
Speaker 3: percent of the independence and unaffiliateds that are also the
1:19:29
Speaker 3: fastest growing percentage of our electric sixty percent of young people.
1:19:33
Speaker 3: Every demographic. We see that people are saying no to both.
1:19:36
Speaker 3: And it's not just middle chuck, it's none of the above.
1:19:39
Speaker 3: They're just throwing a middle finger up to all of it.
1:19:41
Speaker 3: They don't want corporations, they don't want corporate media, they
1:19:44
Speaker 3: don't want the parties, and they want to be independent
1:19:46
Speaker 3: in the spirit of George Washington.
1:19:48
Speaker 1: And this is I think the challenge you this continues
1:19:51
Speaker 1: to be the challenge of tapping into this on what
1:19:54
Speaker 1: on paper looks like an incredible group to tap into.
1:19:57
Speaker 1: And yet the problem when you take the is forty
1:20:00
Speaker 1: plus percent that I self identify as not either party. Right,
1:20:04
Speaker 1: they say, no, I'm independent. I'm really not comfortable with
1:20:07
Speaker 1: either party. Obviously, when you push you can figure out, oh,
1:20:11
Speaker 1: culturally they lean this way, and culturally they lean that way,
1:20:14
Speaker 1: and all of that. It is hard to find a
1:20:17
Speaker 1: unifying set of issues for this independent movement. This is
1:20:21
Speaker 1: what I've what you what becomes the flaw and the
1:20:24
Speaker 1: ointment here? Right, what seems like a no brainer on paper, Look,
1:20:28
Speaker 1: people pick independence for a reason. Right, Bernie Sanders is independent.
1:20:33
Speaker 2: I hear you, he's not a real independent.
1:20:37
Speaker 1: Well what he he's not comfortable being with either major party,
1:20:40
Speaker 1: but he's obviously ideologically wants something a little bit different.
1:20:44
Speaker 2: And he caucuses with the Democrats.
1:20:46
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of people who call themselves
1:20:49
Speaker 1: independent but are decidedly either you know, sort of conservative
1:20:55
Speaker 1: libertarians or progressive independence.
1:21:01
Speaker 3: There's a lot of different reasons for folks to be independent.
1:21:03
Speaker 3: I think it's really important for folks to think about
1:21:06
Speaker 3: the fact that independent is an attitude more than it
1:21:09
Speaker 3: is a political affiliation.
1:21:11
Speaker 2: Right.
1:21:11
Speaker 3: It's not an ideology, it's not an ideology, right. But
1:21:15
Speaker 3: what the unifying factor is. They reject the status quo,
1:21:18
Speaker 3: and they reject both parties, and they're looking I would
1:21:21
Speaker 3: argue for leaders even more than issues, and too often.
1:21:25
Speaker 2: They're dismissed as spoilers or they're leaning.
1:21:27
Speaker 3: Very seldom do we actually have a chance to vote
1:21:29
Speaker 3: for an independent candidate because oftentimes they can't even make
1:21:32
Speaker 3: the ballot. They have higher thresholds to reach the ballots,
1:21:35
Speaker 3: they don't have the same fundraising mechanisms, and that's a
1:21:37
Speaker 3: problem that we're working against.
1:21:39
Speaker 2: But when you look at.
1:21:40
Speaker 3: Someone like Jesse Ventura, he won he won a governor's
1:21:43
Speaker 3: race in Minnesota.
1:21:45
Speaker 2: This was decades ago, right, and I think.
1:21:47
Speaker 3: In many ways that's an indicator for what can be
1:21:50
Speaker 3: happening now. Because he had the power of celebrity, he
1:21:52
Speaker 3: was able to obviously master the media. But there's an
1:21:55
Speaker 3: independent mayor of Colorado Springs right now named Yemi Mobilatti,
1:22:00
Speaker 3: an independent mayor of Chattanooga, Tennessee named Tim Kelly. And
1:22:03
Speaker 3: there are a number of veterans running for Senate, like
1:22:06
Speaker 3: Dan Osborne in Nebraska who can potentially win in a
1:22:10
Speaker 3: Senate race where a Democrat can't. There may be one
1:22:12
Speaker 3: in Montana which might be the most ripe for the
1:22:15
Speaker 3: Senate in terms of running an independent candidate, because right
1:22:18
Speaker 3: now we know that the Democrats are very unpopular and
1:22:21
Speaker 3: the Republicans are very unpopular, and independents are in a
1:22:24
Speaker 3: unique position to run against everybody to say I'm against
1:22:27
Speaker 3: all of it. And if you capture that with the
1:22:30
Speaker 3: veteran persona like I think some of these folks are
1:22:33
Speaker 3: or celebrity. If Matthew McConaughey decides to run in Texas
1:22:36
Speaker 3: or The Rock decides to run for president. And I
1:22:39
Speaker 3: don't say that dismissively because Ronald Reagan once did it,
1:22:42
Speaker 3: just Event Tour once did it. If people can can jump.
1:22:44
Speaker 1: Do Donald Trump has done it. Let's not pretending to
1:22:47
Speaker 1: other than a celebrity.
1:22:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, the moment is ripe right now.
1:22:52
Speaker 3: And the other thing that I think we're close to
1:22:54
Speaker 3: Chuck is a significant scalable investment. The left has the
1:22:58
Speaker 3: Soroses of the world and the right has the Koch Brothers.
1:23:01
Speaker 2: There's been no real billionaires jumping in to this. Elon
1:23:05
Speaker 2: Musk has talked about it.
1:23:06
Speaker 3: But there is a market opportunity here that sooner or
1:23:09
Speaker 3: later somebody is going to recognize. And I think it's
1:23:12
Speaker 3: really like an oil well set to be spikes. So
1:23:15
Speaker 3: we're going to run one hundred of them. We're going
1:23:16
Speaker 3: to take some good shots. But if we win one
1:23:19
Speaker 3: Senate seat, and it could be Idaho, South Dakota, Montana, Nebraska,
1:23:24
Speaker 3: and we may see a couple others, then that will
1:23:26
Speaker 3: immediately be the single most powerful member of the Senate.
1:23:28
Speaker 3: An independent fulcrum who doesn't caucus with either the Republicans
1:23:32
Speaker 3: or Democrats, especially if it's a veteran, could be the
1:23:35
Speaker 3: most powerful member of the Senate.
1:23:36
Speaker 4: And that's what we're shooting for this fall. I've never understood.
1:23:48
Speaker 1: I mean, it's been one of my frustrations with Angus
1:23:51
Speaker 1: King in there, which is I thought he could build
1:23:54
Speaker 1: All you need is four to six members, right, you
1:23:58
Speaker 1: already really have two foundations members of this independent block.
1:24:02
Speaker 1: Who I do think who if they would agree, basically,
1:24:05
Speaker 1: we're either all going to vote for one party or
1:24:07
Speaker 1: the other, depending on what you're promising when it comes
1:24:11
Speaker 1: to the independent Senate agenda. Angus King and Lisa Murkowski
1:24:15
Speaker 1: could be these ten polls and they won't do it.
1:24:20
Speaker 1: And I don't know why, right, which, because if they
1:24:23
Speaker 1: would pledge to do this, they already have the backing
1:24:27
Speaker 1: of their own states to do this. So if they
1:24:30
Speaker 1: would join hands, and they could have done it with
1:24:32
Speaker 1: Mansion and Cinema and likely recruited a Susan Collins, although
1:24:37
Speaker 1: I don't know, but in theory, let's say they could
1:24:40
Speaker 1: have done that. Maybe a Todd Young I could throw
1:24:43
Speaker 1: in there, maybe a John Curtis out of Wyoming. Where
1:24:47
Speaker 1: that says, look, we're going to be independence first, and
1:24:50
Speaker 1: we're going to vote as a block to decide which
1:24:53
Speaker 1: party gets to organize the Senate based on here are
1:24:56
Speaker 1: our five demands. You don't need the majority, right, It's
1:25:01
Speaker 1: exactly what you're saying. And I don't know why this
1:25:05
Speaker 1: has been so hard to get somebody to try to
1:25:07
Speaker 1: be the leader of the independence.
1:25:08
Speaker 3: To be frank well, politicians are often behind the curve,
1:25:12
Speaker 3: not ahead of it.
1:25:12
Speaker 2: Right, And I think the people want this.
1:25:14
Speaker 3: But if you look at someone like Angus King or
1:25:17
Speaker 3: Bernie Sators, they were essentially elected with the expectation that
1:25:20
Speaker 3: they would caucus with the Democrats.
1:25:21
Speaker 2: Right, So I would challenge whether the reason.
1:25:24
Speaker 1: I single out Angus King is when Angus King rings
1:25:27
Speaker 1: ran for governor, he ran against both parties. Oh yeah,
1:25:29
Speaker 1: but he won his governorship.
1:25:30
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:25:31
Speaker 1: By the time he had ran as the Senate, You're right,
1:25:33
Speaker 1: Democrats just said, hey, we're not going to recruit somebody
1:25:35
Speaker 1: against him, and if we don't, he'll probably cauc us
1:25:38
Speaker 1: with us.
1:25:38
Speaker 3: Yeah. And I do think Angus King is probably the
1:25:40
Speaker 3: closest thing we have in the Senate to being that leader.
1:25:43
Speaker 3: And I've had this conversation with him on my show
1:25:45
Speaker 3: and I've challenged him on it. But I also think
1:25:47
Speaker 3: we're close to a breaking point, Chuck, where we only
1:25:50
Speaker 3: need one or two to break ranks and defect.
1:25:53
Speaker 2: And let me give you two examples.
1:25:54
Speaker 3: Jared Golden in Maine is a Democrat, a veteran who
1:25:57
Speaker 3: very easily could break ranks with the Democrats and declare
1:26:00
Speaker 3: his independence, become unaffiliated.
1:26:03
Speaker 2: And someone like Don Bacon.
1:26:04
Speaker 3: Also a veteran from Nebraska who continues to buck against
1:26:07
Speaker 3: his party. If the two of them came together and said,
1:26:10
Speaker 3: we're going to send a message, We're going to break
1:26:12
Speaker 3: the seal. It's safe out here. You can leave the
1:26:15
Speaker 3: Democratic and Republican Party. You can get media attention, you
1:26:18
Speaker 3: will have other people who look out for you, and
1:26:20
Speaker 3: there will be money.
1:26:21
Speaker 2: Because here's the real truth, Tuck.
1:26:22
Speaker 3: I've got a lot of folks who call me up
1:26:24
Speaker 3: and say, you know, I'm thinking about running, But does
1:26:26
Speaker 3: anybody have like ten million dollars for me if I run?
1:26:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, they need air cover.
1:26:31
Speaker 2: Amerroe mccraven says he doesn't want to run.
1:26:33
Speaker 3: If Mike Bloomberg gives him a hundred million dollars, he
1:26:36
Speaker 3: might rethink that situation.
1:26:38
Speaker 2: Right.
1:26:38
Speaker 3: So we have to, I think, simultaneously attack the systems
1:26:41
Speaker 3: with open primaries. We have to address the lack of
1:26:43
Speaker 3: infrastructure around fundraising ballot access. But we also need super
1:26:48
Speaker 3: captivating leaders, and I think we're.
1:26:50
Speaker 2: Very close to seeing that.
1:26:51
Speaker 3: Dan Osborne, I think broke through tremendously in Nebraska because
1:26:55
Speaker 3: of his realism, because he was a steam worker. You know,
1:26:58
Speaker 3: he's a union guy. He's tough, he's got tattoos, he's
1:27:01
Speaker 3: talking real. We're going to run like one hundred Dan Osborne's.
1:27:04
Speaker 3: But we're also one step away from getting Mark Millie
1:27:08
Speaker 3: or Admiral mccraven or someone like that. And I think
1:27:10
Speaker 3: once we get a high visibility person that can drive
1:27:13
Speaker 3: that infrastructure behind them, people are going to defect. They're
1:27:16
Speaker 3: not happy as Democrats and Republicans. They just have to
1:27:18
Speaker 3: know that if they leave, they can survive. And that's
1:27:21
Speaker 3: where the people come in. You have to support those
1:27:23
Speaker 3: independent candidates and make it viable for people who put
1:27:26
Speaker 3: country over party, and the people that want to kill
1:27:28
Speaker 3: it the most are the parties.
1:27:29
Speaker 2: The parties do not want us to do this.
1:27:32
Speaker 3: That's why when Brad Lander and Mom Donnie when they won,
1:27:37
Speaker 3: one of the first things they did was kill the
1:27:39
Speaker 3: open primaries initiative to get on the ballot in New
1:27:41
Speaker 3: York City because they want to slam the door behind him.
1:27:44
Speaker 3: The DSA ran the table, they worked the Democratic primary,
1:27:48
Speaker 3: and they want to ensure there are no open primaries
1:27:50
Speaker 3: going forward. Because if you want a counter to Mom
1:27:53
Speaker 3: Donnie or Trump, open primaries is probably it.
1:27:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, look, it's the two parties. So the reason why
1:28:02
Speaker 1: you can't it is so difficult in some states to
1:28:04
Speaker 1: even get on the ballot, which I know you're experiencing
1:28:07
Speaker 1: with what you're helping. Let me flip the script there
1:28:09
Speaker 1: this way, if you were if the Democratic Party and
1:28:13
Speaker 1: the and or the Republican Party came to you. In fact,
1:28:16
Speaker 1: I wanted you to answer both questions, and they say, okay, Paul,
1:28:21
Speaker 1: we're we need to figure out how to appeal to
1:28:23
Speaker 1: this large block of independent veterans. What's your advice to
1:28:28
Speaker 1: the Democrats? What's your advice to the Republicans? Is it
1:28:30
Speaker 1: the same or is it different advice for each party?
1:28:33
Speaker 2: Well, they do that, I will tell you, Cantley.
1:28:35
Speaker 3: I hear from a lot of elected leaders and leaders
1:28:37
Speaker 3: from both parties, and what I tell them, most of folles,
1:28:40
Speaker 3: drop your party affiliation because your brand is shit. You
1:28:43
Speaker 3: can't the minute you put in our d the truth
1:28:47
Speaker 3: nothing but skepticism.
1:28:48
Speaker 2: For this is the truth is.
1:28:50
Speaker 3: That Americans don't trust Republicans or Democrats, and their brands
1:28:54
Speaker 3: are sinking. You know, Like I think ten thousand people
1:28:57
Speaker 3: are leaving the Democratic and Republican Party every single day.
1:29:01
Speaker 2: They're checking out.
1:29:01
Speaker 3: And I think it's a new normal where people can
1:29:04
Speaker 3: order fifteen different couches from Amazon, but they only have
1:29:08
Speaker 3: two options on the ballot. People want more choices and
1:29:11
Speaker 3: that's the future of America in my view. So the
1:29:13
Speaker 3: number one thing they can do is not be themselves,
1:29:16
Speaker 3: which is hard for them to do. But I do
1:29:19
Speaker 3: think it comes down to a focus on national security,
1:29:21
Speaker 3: for example, focus on issues like law enforcement and first responders,
1:29:26
Speaker 3: talk about things that they don't want to talk about sometimes.
1:29:28
Speaker 2: Like taxes. Right.
1:29:30
Speaker 3: But I do think that most independence more than anything else,
1:29:33
Speaker 3: want to hear that you will be independent, meaning you
1:29:35
Speaker 3: won't be beholden to donors, you won't be beholden to parties,
1:29:39
Speaker 3: you won't be beholden to ideology, and you will truly
1:29:42
Speaker 3: put the country and your community first. And the ones
1:29:45
Speaker 3: who can do that with authenticity will get independence right.
1:29:48
Speaker 2: And Trump knows how to play that tune. He does it.
1:29:51
Speaker 2: He knows what populism sounds like.
1:29:53
Speaker 3: He also knows how to capture culture right where you
1:29:55
Speaker 3: can get politically adjacent people who watch sports, who watch music,
1:29:59
Speaker 3: and I think those foks are more movable as well.
1:30:01
Speaker 3: So my advice to them is to legitimately be independent,
1:30:04
Speaker 3: show you can buck your party, and let me give
1:30:06
Speaker 3: you a really good example Wes Moore and Gavin Newsom.
1:30:10
Speaker 3: The redistricting that they're doing in their states is great
1:30:13
Speaker 3: for the Democrats. In my view, it's bad for our democracy.
1:30:16
Speaker 3: Fighting fire with fire is not good for America. And
1:30:20
Speaker 3: I would argue that if they want to attract independence
1:30:22
Speaker 3: in their states, or if they want to run for president,
1:30:24
Speaker 3: don't do the redistricting. Don't do the redistricting and support
1:30:28
Speaker 3: open primaries in your state, which would empower millions of
1:30:32
Speaker 3: people to vote equally in your state. That's a really
1:30:35
Speaker 3: easy one, Chuck. You can understand and appreciate the true
1:30:38
Speaker 3: cowardice of a democratic Republican. If they won't support open primaries,
1:30:42
Speaker 3: they won't support an equal vote for someone like me
1:30:45
Speaker 3: who serve their country and doesn't have the same power
1:30:48
Speaker 3: as someone who decides to run to participate in their
1:30:51
Speaker 3: private primary, which is publicly funded, uses public resources and
1:30:56
Speaker 3: public schools.
1:30:57
Speaker 2: Right.
1:30:58
Speaker 1: Oh, I don't see how it's constant. I don't think
1:31:01
Speaker 1: that this stuff is unconstitutional. I think it violates the
1:31:03
Speaker 1: equal Protection Clause. And I think the idea that I
1:31:06
Speaker 1: got to register for a party. Luckily I live in Virginia,
1:31:09
Speaker 1: no party registration, so I can I've got all the
1:31:12
Speaker 1: freedom as a voter. That is not the case. I
1:31:15
Speaker 1: believe you're in New York. Not the case in New York.
1:31:18
Speaker 1: And that's just I thought we used to call those
1:31:21
Speaker 1: poll taxes. No, that's right, that's exactly right. And I
1:31:25
Speaker 1: think it's really important for people to think about this. Look,
1:31:27
Speaker 1: I would argue everyone should declare their independence.
1:31:30
Speaker 3: Right, you have a lot more power as a voter
1:31:32
Speaker 3: if you are politically and now you could argue you
1:31:34
Speaker 3: want to vote in the primaries, but this is the
1:31:37
Speaker 3: way things are going. And if you just give them
1:31:39
Speaker 3: your name, you give them your affiliation, and you don't
1:31:42
Speaker 3: make them work for it, you're an easy get right.
1:31:45
Speaker 3: And I think more Americans are tired of that, and
1:31:48
Speaker 3: they don't feel like they feel like the Republicans are
1:31:51
Speaker 3: driving our country off a cliff and the Democrats can't
1:31:54
Speaker 3: stop them. So they want alternatives who can hold the
1:31:57
Speaker 3: line and represent more people. I do think they want unity, right,
1:32:02
Speaker 3: And if you're an independent, I think you can legitimately
1:32:04
Speaker 3: offer unity and at the same time challenge people who
1:32:08
Speaker 3: are extreme.
1:32:08
Speaker 2: Whether you view Trump or Mom Donnie as extreme.
1:32:13
Speaker 1: Let's let's try to get at lighter here at the
1:32:15
Speaker 1: end you're trying to you you're running an independent media operation.
1:32:20
Speaker 1: I'm running an independent media operation. I'll tell you the
1:32:22
Speaker 1: one thing that I feel growing with me all the time,
1:32:27
Speaker 1: which is I feel like I'm so focused on content
1:32:32
Speaker 1: that I'm not doing enough ingestion, and I have to
1:32:34
Speaker 1: carve out time and it is increasingly difficult to keep
1:32:38
Speaker 1: up simply because there's more good content available than ever before,
1:32:44
Speaker 1: thanks to sort of this massive fragmentation. We're all you know,
1:32:48
Speaker 1: I mean, look at the world of podcasts. There are
1:32:52
Speaker 1: more hours of podcasts that I want to listen to
1:32:54
Speaker 1: than I have time during the week. How do you
1:32:57
Speaker 1: do it? What's your diet? Give me your diet? How
1:33:00
Speaker 1: do you still do leisurely reading and podcasts listening? Because
1:33:05
Speaker 1: I think finding that's the time I'm struggling to find.
1:33:08
Speaker 1: It's like everything is all geared towards the work product
1:33:12
Speaker 1: that I'm finding myself missing my casual stuff. You know,
1:33:19
Speaker 1: whatever it is, your sports podcast, maybe a movie pod,
1:33:22
Speaker 1: whatever it is. I'm curious. You're doing a lot. That's
1:33:25
Speaker 1: why I got to think. And you've got a kid
1:33:27
Speaker 1: at home. Still I'm empty nest, Yeah, I'm empty nest.
1:33:30
Speaker 1: So I've got a little less of that responsibility. How
1:33:33
Speaker 1: are you balancing this?
1:33:35
Speaker 3: I mean, the short answer is discipline, right, and that
1:33:38
Speaker 3: comes from the military, and part it comes from being
1:33:41
Speaker 3: a social entrepreneur.
1:33:42
Speaker 2: An entrepreneur comes from being a dad.
1:33:44
Speaker 3: But I am extremely rigorous about getting up at a
1:33:48
Speaker 3: very early time each day. And the first thing I
1:33:51
Speaker 3: do is I go get some sunlight, and I make
1:33:53
Speaker 3: sure I get direct sun, and I get some fresh air,
1:33:55
Speaker 3: and I get some coffee, and I get to do
1:33:57
Speaker 3: some breathing and stretching and exercise and a really cold
1:34:01
Speaker 3: shower because I want to do hard things to start
1:34:03
Speaker 3: my day, and I get interested.
1:34:06
Speaker 1: You're a cold shower guy.
1:34:07
Speaker 2: I don't have a cold.
1:34:08
Speaker 3: I live in New York City, so I can't have
1:34:09
Speaker 3: a cold plunge, and I don't have a lake outside.
1:34:12
Speaker 3: But I do think starting my day without my phone,
1:34:15
Speaker 3: where I can set the tempo, I can lay out
1:34:17
Speaker 3: my goals, I can reflect and get my body in
1:34:19
Speaker 3: my mind right, is really really key before the kids
1:34:22
Speaker 3: get up, before the assault of news comes. And then
1:34:25
Speaker 3: I do read like I mean, I read newspapers and
1:34:28
Speaker 3: international papers and blogs. I try to consume as much
1:34:32
Speaker 3: information as I can because part of my job is
1:34:35
Speaker 3: helping people navigate it, and that's the I think the
1:34:37
Speaker 3: upside of this, Chuck is that you are like a
1:34:41
Speaker 3: compass for people. You're an asthmyth, and I think at
1:34:43
Speaker 3: times like this, it's our job to help people process
1:34:46
Speaker 3: and find a path through the chaos. And that's the
1:34:49
Speaker 3: exciting part here is I think they actually can trust us.
1:34:51
Speaker 3: We don't have corporate sponsors and we don't have to
1:34:54
Speaker 3: run by agrads all the time. We can wake up
1:34:57
Speaker 3: and focus on the things we care about, and I
1:34:59
Speaker 3: do think that it requires me to be especially disciplined
1:35:02
Speaker 3: around things like veterans issues. I'm covering the suicide numbers,
1:35:05
Speaker 3: even though it's not exciting first responders issues.
1:35:08
Speaker 2: I'm focused on the fact that the nine to.
1:35:10
Speaker 3: Eleven records have not been fully released, right because I
1:35:13
Speaker 3: know who my audience is, I know who my community is.
1:35:16
Speaker 3: Vets are depending on me to talk about the VA
1:35:19
Speaker 3: because almost nobody else does, right, and that forces me,
1:35:22
Speaker 3: I think, to have a degree of discipline, And frankly,
1:35:26
Speaker 3: national security is the ultimate clarifier. So if I'm worried
1:35:29
Speaker 3: about too much stuff, you know, nukes are a great clarifier.
1:35:32
Speaker 3: Attacks on Iran are a great clarifier. I still also
1:35:36
Speaker 3: have to make time for joy and for creativity. So
1:35:39
Speaker 3: you and I talked on my show about.
1:35:41
Speaker 2: You know, fallout.
1:35:42
Speaker 1: I know we got it. Both got obsessed with that.
1:35:44
Speaker 2: Right fallout.
1:35:45
Speaker 3: And you know, I love Landman and I watch tons
1:35:48
Speaker 3: of sports, but I think it's also important.
1:35:51
Speaker 2: Too, Chuck. I shut it off when I spend time
1:35:53
Speaker 2: with my boys.
1:35:54
Speaker 3: And there's nothing more important to me than being with
1:35:56
Speaker 3: my boys who are ten and six, and I coach,
1:36:00
Speaker 3: which I think is the most important clarifier, because I
1:36:03
Speaker 3: can't turn on my phone, I can't get distracted.
1:36:05
Speaker 2: I've got six year olds on a football field or.
1:36:07
Speaker 3: A basketball court and they're all looking at me, and that,
1:36:10
Speaker 3: in some ways is the most important thing I think
1:36:12
Speaker 3: many of us can do, which is demonstrate good leadership
1:36:15
Speaker 3: and be good role models in our community. And I
1:36:19
Speaker 3: tell my boys all the time, you gotta read readers
1:36:21
Speaker 3: or leaders. It's over my shoulder here. My son won
1:36:24
Speaker 3: super reader, and you gotta be disciplined and read, Chuck.
1:36:30
Speaker 2: That's my long winded answer.
1:36:31
Speaker 3: Beyond the cold showers and doing lots of push ups
1:36:34
Speaker 3: and stretching, you got to read people.
1:36:36
Speaker 1: You got to read the Colt shower ideas. That's something
1:36:42
Speaker 1: I might. I might because I'm an obsessive early riser
1:36:45
Speaker 1: for the same reason I want as much time without
1:36:47
Speaker 1: distractions as I can. Yeah, right, And the only time
1:36:51
Speaker 1: of day you can get it is somewhere between four
1:36:54
Speaker 1: and seven.
1:36:55
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:36:55
Speaker 3: I mean, I like doing one of the hardest things
1:36:57
Speaker 3: possible to start my day, because then I know I
1:37:00
Speaker 3: knocked out something hard.
1:37:01
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not a craven making my bed.
1:37:03
Speaker 3: Making my beds important too, But if you freeze your
1:37:06
Speaker 3: ass off in a nice coal shower, you're awake and
1:37:09
Speaker 3: you know that you can do other.
1:37:10
Speaker 2: Things after that.
1:37:11
Speaker 3: But I also think it's very very important for us
1:37:14
Speaker 3: to talk about mental health, and it's about your mental
1:37:17
Speaker 3: health and making sure you taking care of yourself and
1:37:19
Speaker 3: what is not only chaotic times, but likely to be
1:37:22
Speaker 3: sustained chaotic times. This is our new normal, Chuck, there
1:37:25
Speaker 3: are going to be no days off from the news cycle.
1:37:27
Speaker 1: Hey, listen, citizenship is active, you know. I remember the
1:37:30
Speaker 1: first time I visited Israel. It was an six And look,
1:37:38
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people that have very strong
1:37:40
Speaker 1: opinions about Israel in the moment because of what happened
1:37:42
Speaker 1: in Gaza, and I respect that, but what I want
1:37:46
Speaker 1: to drive at in Israel is an Israel. To be
1:37:49
Speaker 1: a citizen is an active job. You're surrounded. It's you know,
1:37:54
Speaker 1: being the only democracy sort of from a you know,
1:37:56
Speaker 1: one of the in that region, or certainly more democratic
1:38:00
Speaker 1: than than than other other entities in that region. It
1:38:06
Speaker 1: is you've got to be a participant. It's a there's
1:38:10
Speaker 1: an activist, there's an there's an activist mindset to be
1:38:13
Speaker 1: a citizen in Israel. We had that in this country
1:38:17
Speaker 1: for over one hundred years. You know, when you read
1:38:20
Speaker 1: Detchfold Democracy in America and he was trying to figure
1:38:22
Speaker 1: you know, sort of figure this out. And he was
1:38:25
Speaker 1: this outside observer, you know, he marveled at a few things,
1:38:29
Speaker 1: how interested and local we were, and sort of how
1:38:32
Speaker 1: active everybody was.
1:38:33
Speaker 2: It was.
1:38:34
Speaker 1: It was participatory. It does feel as if we got
1:38:39
Speaker 1: you know, and I vacillate on this. Perhaps apathy is
1:38:44
Speaker 1: a sign of stability. And it is not lost on
1:38:48
Speaker 1: me that our highest turnouts over the last in my
1:38:50
Speaker 1: lifetime have all come since the era of Trump. That
1:38:54
Speaker 1: the instability Trump is is uh brought to the system
1:38:59
Speaker 1: has brought more people to pay attention, and we have
1:39:02
Speaker 1: higher vote We've had higher voter participation rates, pure and simple.
1:39:07
Speaker 1: It's interesting to me that it's it's because people are
1:39:10
Speaker 1: nervous that they show up to the polls, not because
1:39:12
Speaker 1: people are satisfied. And so I I I vacillate there
1:39:19
Speaker 1: on that. But I wonder, you know, how do we
1:39:22
Speaker 1: make people feel as if you know, hey, look, citizenship
1:39:25
Speaker 1: is there's it is a job, and you can't be passive.
1:39:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, vigilance is the price of freedom. Talk about it.
1:39:35
Speaker 1: What's your tagline? You say it all the.
1:39:37
Speaker 2: Time, stay vigilant.
1:39:39
Speaker 1: And I'm going to build on why you say that.
1:39:41
Speaker 1: What do you mean by it?
1:39:42
Speaker 3: Well, because you know I would put it in in
1:39:45
Speaker 3: these most focused terms. Somebody once said, you know, you
1:39:49
Speaker 3: might not be into politics, but politics is into you,
1:39:52
Speaker 3: right And and I think the reality that folks need
1:39:55
Speaker 3: to face, either now or later, is that your democracy,
1:39:59
Speaker 3: your freedom, your security, your economic prosperity, in my view,
1:40:04
Speaker 3: is under direct threat right now, whether you know it
1:40:06
Speaker 3: or not. There is a war going on in America
1:40:08
Speaker 3: for the soul of America, for the future of our country.
1:40:10
Speaker 3: And I would argue for freedom worldwide. So my job
1:40:14
Speaker 3: is to is to fight for freedom foreign and domestics,
1:40:16
Speaker 3: supporting you know, the freedom fighters in Ukraine and supporting
1:40:19
Speaker 3: protesters in Minneapolis who are standing up for.
1:40:21
Speaker 2: The constitutional rights.
1:40:22
Speaker 3: In my view, this is a moment some folks in
1:40:25
Speaker 3: generations say, I wish I lived in the Civil rights time.
1:40:28
Speaker 2: I wish I lived during Vietnam.
1:40:30
Speaker 1: We are here now, We're here now.
1:40:31
Speaker 2: I used to buy the way.
1:40:32
Speaker 1: I was one of those people.
1:40:34
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:40:34
Speaker 1: I remember as a reporter, young reporter in the nineties,
1:40:36
Speaker 1: I used to think, oh, man, I there's a part
1:40:40
Speaker 1: of me that wishes I had I had something more
1:40:43
Speaker 1: defining for the country to cover.
1:40:46
Speaker 3: Little did I know. And it is literally, it is
1:40:48
Speaker 3: literally at your doorstep. Right, this is you and I,
1:40:52
Speaker 3: You and I, Chuck. Let's break it down right, talk
1:40:54
Speaker 3: about independent media. They arrested Don Lemon. They can arrest you.
1:41:00
Speaker 3: They can arrest me. They can arrest anybody with a
1:41:02
Speaker 3: substack account, right, anybody who speaks out. If you're a
1:41:06
Speaker 3: military retiree like Senator Kelly, you could have posted something
1:41:10
Speaker 3: on your Facebook and they could come after.
1:41:12
Speaker 2: You for your retirement. The important point, I think is
1:41:14
Speaker 2: that Ice.
1:41:14
Speaker 1: You're not Mark Kelly. If they do that Mark Kelly
1:41:17
Speaker 1: can at least shine a light on this.
1:41:19
Speaker 2: Ice has made it immediate.
1:41:21
Speaker 3: I think everybody can recognize that ICE might knock at
1:41:25
Speaker 3: your door, and if not your door or your neighbor's door,
1:41:27
Speaker 3: or they might be outside of the end of your street,
1:41:29
Speaker 3: or they might snatch up someone you know, or they
1:41:31
Speaker 3: might disrupt your place of employment. I think that the
1:41:33
Speaker 3: immediacy of that threat and the clarity of that threat
1:41:37
Speaker 3: without warrants, without badges, without it feels unconstitutional. It feels unlawful,
1:41:41
Speaker 3: and really importantly, Chuck, it feels deeply un American. And
1:41:45
Speaker 3: even for people who can't call it what it is
1:41:47
Speaker 3: now they're understanding that feels deeply un American. And it's
1:41:51
Speaker 3: it's inspiring a new kind of patriotism that's really about
1:41:54
Speaker 3: a fight.
1:41:54
Speaker 2: You've got to fight for it.
1:41:56
Speaker 3: And if you think you can be a pedestrian right now,
1:41:58
Speaker 3: if you think you're not on the battlefield, then you're
1:42:00
Speaker 3: the prey, right And that's the approach I take for
1:42:03
Speaker 3: everybody in this country right now.
1:42:05
Speaker 1: Right So when are you running for office.
1:42:09
Speaker 3: If it becomes viable for an independent Chuck, right, I mean,
1:42:12
Speaker 3: And that's the truth. Like I have thought about running
1:42:14
Speaker 3: for office. I've been recruited by both parties.
1:42:16
Speaker 1: Actually, you're a New York City resident, right.
1:42:18
Speaker 3: I am a New York City resident, and I am
1:42:21
Speaker 3: a political independent. If I was a billionaire, maybe I
1:42:24
Speaker 3: could run against Kathy Hokel as an independent, and if
1:42:27
Speaker 3: she was running against someone like Stephanic, maybe there's a
1:42:30
Speaker 3: pathway for me. But the reality is, I'm trying to
1:42:33
Speaker 3: build the infrastructure for people like me and for thousands
1:42:38
Speaker 3: of others who want to run. So that's where I'm
1:42:40
Speaker 3: focused right now, is you using my microphone to fight
1:42:43
Speaker 3: for freedom and democracy and to try to create a
1:42:46
Speaker 3: pathway for others. And that's really why what we're building
1:42:49
Speaker 3: with independent veterans of America is so important. We have
1:42:52
Speaker 3: to make it viable for people like Man. Maybe for you, Chuck,
1:42:55
Speaker 3: you know, I assume you're politically independent. We need folks
1:42:58
Speaker 3: like you and the game as well. But we're starting
1:43:00
Speaker 3: with veterans as a tip of the spear because we
1:43:02
Speaker 3: think it's the easiest to understand. It's I think they're
1:43:04
Speaker 3: the most incredible, Yeah leaders, We want to create a given.
1:43:09
Speaker 3: We want to create a model for veterans that's scalable
1:43:12
Speaker 3: for any independent American that wants to run for office.
1:43:15
Speaker 3: So for now, I'm building the machine. I'm supporting my
1:43:18
Speaker 3: brothers and sisters. I'm excited about the candidates that we've gotten.
1:43:21
Speaker 3: I'll tell you one other thing, Chuck, I say this
1:43:23
Speaker 3: a lot. I'm kind of like Zelenski. I don't need
1:43:26
Speaker 3: a ride. I need AMMO. Right, we need ammunition for
1:43:29
Speaker 3: this fight.
1:43:30
Speaker 1: And so letting people got say they want to help
1:43:32
Speaker 1: you out.
1:43:32
Speaker 3: Independent Veterans of America dot org you can help us recruit, train,
1:43:37
Speaker 3: support independent veterans to run for office, but also to
1:43:40
Speaker 3: be actors in their community. And there's a campaign we
1:43:42
Speaker 3: just launched yesterday, Chuck that I think is important. We're
1:43:45
Speaker 3: focusing specifically on veterans because one third of ICE agents
1:43:49
Speaker 3: are veterans. ICE is heavily recruiting veterans. We're saying, don't
1:43:53
Speaker 3: join ICE, join us, Join us instead of ICE. You
1:43:56
Speaker 3: want to serve your community, you want to lead for
1:43:58
Speaker 3: the people around you. You want to do something that's
1:44:01
Speaker 3: truly patriotic and not do something criminal that might end
1:44:04
Speaker 3: up putting you in jail. Down the line, don't join ICE,
1:44:07
Speaker 3: join us. We need you, your country needs you. You
1:44:10
Speaker 3: don't have to run for office, but you can start
1:44:11
Speaker 3: at school board. And if that's not interesting to you,
1:44:14
Speaker 3: you can support other people who can.
1:44:16
Speaker 2: And we are the future, Chuck. I say that we're
1:44:18
Speaker 2: not moving the needle.
1:44:19
Speaker 3: We are the needle, and the future of politics in
1:44:21
Speaker 3: America is independent and we're recruiting.
1:44:24
Speaker 2: So, Chuck, I hope you can run one day.
1:44:26
Speaker 1: Look, man, your enthusiasm is infectious and your determination is
1:44:32
Speaker 1: you know, let's just say that you strike me as
1:44:36
Speaker 1: somebody that ought to be at the front of this line,
1:44:38
Speaker 1: not just the head recruiter.
1:44:40
Speaker 2: Brother.
1:44:41
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I'm trying to be effective in whatever
1:44:44
Speaker 3: way I can if that moment comes and I can
1:44:47
Speaker 3: meet it.
1:44:47
Speaker 1: Get those boys raised. I do think focus on that
1:44:50
Speaker 1: this politics ain't great for kids.
1:44:52
Speaker 2: No, And look, Chuck, that's a real thing too.
1:44:55
Speaker 3: I got little kids, and you know that it's a
1:44:58
Speaker 3: very difficult environment. But I also will tell you I'm
1:45:01
Speaker 3: not kicking the can down the road. I do think
1:45:03
Speaker 3: in this year, in this moment, I want to create
1:45:07
Speaker 3: hundreds of George Washington's right, hundreds of Dan Osborne's, hundreds
1:45:10
Speaker 3: of mc craven's, and they're ready to go.
1:45:13
Speaker 2: Chuck.
1:45:13
Speaker 3: Every day we hear from more and said, you know what,
1:45:16
Speaker 3: I never wanted to get in, but I'm in now,
1:45:18
Speaker 3: and Ice in particular has been a really activating threat
1:45:22
Speaker 3: in a way I never could have imagined.
1:45:25
Speaker 2: So I hope it's not just veterans.
1:45:26
Speaker 3: I hope it's teachers and firefighters and even you know,
1:45:30
Speaker 3: iconic media figures like yourself.
1:45:33
Speaker 2: Paul Raykoff.
1:45:35
Speaker 1: Always fascinating to talk with you. I always learned something
1:45:39
Speaker 1: and more important, I always feel a little bit better
1:45:40
Speaker 1: about me in America.
1:45:42
Speaker 2: Well I feel the same, Chuck.
1:45:43
Speaker 3: Appreciate all your public service in your years of a
1:45:46
Speaker 3: leadership in public service.
1:45:47
Speaker 2: Thank you, Chuck. You got it.
1:45:49
Speaker 1: And we got one more episode of Fallout right for
1:45:52
Speaker 1: this season.
1:45:52
Speaker 3: I haven't watched the last one, neither of I no worry,
1:45:56
Speaker 3: neither of VI.
1:45:57
Speaker 2: It's so damn good.
1:46:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm trying to is it real life or not.
1:46:06
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what, as we talked about on my
1:46:09
Speaker 3: show is it has definitely got a lot.
1:46:12
Speaker 2: Of parallels to our real life right now.
1:46:14
Speaker 1: And it's sort of what I love about it is
1:46:16
Speaker 1: I think it's sort of like, here's an extreme ending
1:46:21
Speaker 1: if we take the wrong path.
1:46:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, if you saw a Handmaid's Tale and
1:46:25
Speaker 3: you were like, oh my god, that could be our future.
1:46:28
Speaker 3: Fallout is an even further extension of how bad it
1:46:31
Speaker 3: can get if you don't stay vigilant.
1:46:34
Speaker 1: Well, especially in the relationship with corporate America, which is
1:46:38
Speaker 1: the most fascinating bad guy template that I feel like
1:46:43
Speaker 1: all of Hollywood is shifting towards these days. Oh yes,
1:46:47
Speaker 1: they become more corporatized.
1:46:48
Speaker 2: That's the oh yeah, and the Epstein Files.
1:46:51
Speaker 1: Or where do we watch Fallout?
1:46:52
Speaker 3: By the way, we talked about this, Unfortunately you have
1:46:55
Speaker 3: to watch it on Jeff Bezos's Prime.
1:46:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, but Thai corporate screed on Jeff Bezos' problem. You
1:47:03
Speaker 1: can't make it up.
1:47:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, if you want to create the opposite of
1:47:06
Speaker 3: Jeff Bezos, it's somebody like Dan Osborne, who's been the
1:47:09
Speaker 3: guy turning the wrench.
1:47:11
Speaker 2: And so that's going to be next season on some network.
1:47:14
Speaker 3: We're going to do a different kind of hero and
1:47:16
Speaker 3: they're not going to be the billionaires, They're going to.
1:47:18
Speaker 2: Be the citizens.
1:47:19
Speaker 1: That's right.
1:47:19
Speaker 3: And the music is really good and everything else is
1:47:21
Speaker 3: really good too, right, I mean, it's so.
1:47:23
Speaker 1: Good, it's it's very good. It is it is all right,
1:47:27
Speaker 1: brother talk soon, Thank you, sir. Well keep track, as
1:47:38
Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to be keeping track of these
1:47:39
Speaker 1: independent candidates running, particularly in South Dakota, Montana, Idaho, Mississippi
1:47:45
Speaker 1: on the Senate level. Those are the most fascinating to me.
1:47:49
Speaker 1: Let's see, you know, can they I don't expect any
1:47:51
Speaker 1: of And of course Dan Osborne and Nebraska. Osborne in
1:47:55
Speaker 1: Nebraska might be the one that could win. We'll see,
1:48:00
Speaker 1: since he's been since he's done this before, there's a
1:48:02
Speaker 1: little more familiarity to him running it as sort of
1:48:06
Speaker 1: as a populist independent.
1:48:10
Speaker 2: I think the.
1:48:13
Speaker 1: Measure of success for those other independent candida can he
1:48:15
Speaker 1: get in the forties, right, and especially if the Democrats
1:48:19
Speaker 1: aren't going to put a candidate on the ballot, that
1:48:22
Speaker 1: gives him perhaps a better shot to get into the
1:48:25
Speaker 1: low forties in an Idaho or South Dakota. Probably more
1:48:29
Speaker 1: likely in a South Dakota than Idaho. But we shall
1:48:33
Speaker 1: we shall see on that. And of course, the most
1:48:36
Speaker 1: interesting race statewide race featuring an independent I think is
1:48:41
Speaker 1: the Michigan governor's race with former Democratic Mayor Detroit Mike Dugant.
1:48:46
Speaker 1: But lay, let's do some questions, ask Chuck. First question,
1:48:52
Speaker 1: comes from Kevin. He says, Hey, I've heard on your
1:48:54
Speaker 1: podcast and others that Biden quote failed at the border
1:48:56
Speaker 1: while Trump succeeded. But that framing feels overly simplistic. Isn't
1:48:59
Speaker 1: con responsible for immigration policy. Biden may have made the
1:49:03
Speaker 1: mistake of trusting Congress to act, only for Republicans to
1:49:05
Speaker 1: back away once Trump wanted a campaign on the issue.
1:49:07
Speaker 1: Appreciate your centrist approach. There's that centrist word again, right,
1:49:12
Speaker 1: incrementalist approach is what I would prefer, Kevin, But thank you.
1:49:15
Speaker 1: I appreciate your centrist approach. But I hope future coverage
1:49:17
Speaker 1: kids more nuanced scrutiny to both sides. No, it's look
1:49:20
Speaker 1: what the failure at the border, though, was not allowing
1:49:24
Speaker 1: look Congress. This issue with the with Congress is five
1:49:29
Speaker 1: five presidential five president presidential administrations old right. George W.
1:49:34
Speaker 1: Bush tried to do it No. Five and it blew
1:49:36
Speaker 1: up in his face. Barack Obama tried to do it
1:49:40
Speaker 1: in twenty thirteen, with the Gang of Eight. John McCain
1:49:44
Speaker 1: Mark or Rubio being the two most prominent Republicans a
1:49:47
Speaker 1: part of that, but John Baynor decided not to put it.
1:49:49
Speaker 1: John Baynor has said he regrets not putting that comprehensive
1:49:53
Speaker 1: immigration reform package on the floor of the House. Now,
1:49:58
Speaker 1: the reason he didn't do it then is it he
1:49:59
Speaker 1: thought it would cost them as speakership well as he
1:50:02
Speaker 1: ended up finding out just simply trying to govern was
1:50:05
Speaker 1: going to eventually cost them as speakership, and that's why
1:50:09
Speaker 1: he has some regret that he just didn't go for broke.
1:50:11
Speaker 1: Back then, we saw a near miss DACA for the
1:50:17
Speaker 1: for the wall. Back in twenty eighteen, Schumer and Trump were,
1:50:22
Speaker 1: I guess, semi negotiating. Seemed like maybe there'd be some movement,
1:50:26
Speaker 1: and then there was the pollyannish approach that Biden took.
1:50:28
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry I take it as a Pollyannish approach
1:50:30
Speaker 1: because he he was asking for things that were never
1:50:34
Speaker 1: going you cannot do. You're not going to get immigration
1:50:36
Speaker 1: reform done unless both parties have skin in the game,
1:50:41
Speaker 1: and it just it's that was the issue I think
1:50:46
Speaker 1: with Biden. But what it really was was the enforcement right,
1:50:49
Speaker 1: not not you know you talked to I want to
1:50:58
Speaker 1: be careful here, but if you talk to people that
1:51:00
Speaker 1: worked in Biden's DHS, they will tell you they feel
1:51:03
Speaker 1: like their hands were tied by the White House in
1:51:05
Speaker 1: the West Way. And then there was a new chief
1:51:07
Speaker 1: of Staff in the last two years, and they realized
1:51:09
Speaker 1: what a political problem was that the border, that there
1:51:12
Speaker 1: was constant surge at the border, that they weren't deporting
1:51:16
Speaker 1: folks right away the way they did during Obama's second term,
1:51:21
Speaker 1: where Jay Johnson, you know, and that's how Obama got
1:51:25
Speaker 1: the nickname to Porter in Chief Jay Johnson and his
1:51:28
Speaker 1: deputy Alimi Orcus, who would become Biden's DHS secretary, working
1:51:34
Speaker 1: with a guy like Tom Holman. By the way, we're
1:51:37
Speaker 1: keeping the border from becoming congested, overwhelmed, whelming, etc. And look,
1:51:46
Speaker 1: I've always thought Stephen Miller and Trump deserved more blame
1:51:49
Speaker 1: for the chaos at the border in twenty twenty one
1:51:52
Speaker 1: when Biden became president, because Miller scoured the public health
1:51:57
Speaker 1: emergency laws and ordered to you essentially shut the shut
1:52:01
Speaker 1: the border down completely, using the public health emergency over
1:52:05
Speaker 1: COVID to do it. You know, as I've said, he
1:52:08
Speaker 1: basically kinked the hose, and that's what they handed. They
1:52:11
Speaker 1: had no policy, and then you know, Biden was was
1:52:15
Speaker 1: gonna unkink the hose, and it's like Okay, let's reopen
1:52:19
Speaker 1: the border. Right, the public health emergency is now mitigated. Well,
1:52:24
Speaker 1: what happened was it served as a magnet, and so
1:52:27
Speaker 1: folks saw it as well, Trump's not letting anybody in.
1:52:30
Speaker 1: We better hurry up and get in while Biden's there
1:52:32
Speaker 1: before somebody else comes back, and and I let it.
1:52:35
Speaker 1: So the point is is that in there was a
1:52:40
Speaker 1: there was less enforcement at the border in that first
1:52:44
Speaker 1: eighteen months of the Biden presidency. So yes, it contributed.
1:52:49
Speaker 1: It wasn't just a perception that he had a porous border.
1:52:53
Speaker 1: That was the policy. What did they do when they
1:52:57
Speaker 1: needed to tighten things up? The point is is that
1:53:02
Speaker 1: they could tighten things up if they chose to. Now,
1:53:04
Speaker 1: this was this was the impact of the interest groups,
1:53:08
Speaker 1: and there were a lot of Look, I understand the
1:53:11
Speaker 1: empathy that many of these immigration rights groups had on
1:53:14
Speaker 1: what was happening with kids in cages and everything that
1:53:17
Speaker 1: happened twenty eighteen and twenty nineteen. In twenty twenty, so
1:53:21
Speaker 1: I understand the anger and the empathy that was there.
1:53:27
Speaker 1: And there was this concern, and certainly you had a
1:53:30
Speaker 1: Biden West wing led by Ron Klain, the first chief
1:53:33
Speaker 1: of staff, who was very empathetic to the progressive groups,
1:53:38
Speaker 1: and they didn't want to And that's why I can
1:53:41
Speaker 1: tell you my sources that were inside of DHS were like, hey,
1:53:45
Speaker 1: we had our hands tied, and you know, there were
1:53:49
Speaker 1: things that could have been done that would have had
1:53:51
Speaker 1: a more humane approach when you approach that Jay Johnson
1:53:55
Speaker 1: used in during Obama's second term to keep the order
1:54:00
Speaker 1: under control, not to shut the border down, but to
1:54:03
Speaker 1: bring some order to the border and order to the
1:54:07
Speaker 1: asylum system. Yes, ultimately this is all on Congress, but
1:54:10
Speaker 1: my god, Congress is at the root of all of
1:54:13
Speaker 1: our problems.
1:54:14
Speaker 2: Right.
1:54:14
Speaker 1: Congress's inability to take control of the of tariffs or
1:54:18
Speaker 1: why we're all paying more money at the grocery store.
1:54:20
Speaker 1: Congress is inability to do any accountability on the Trump administration.
1:54:25
Speaker 1: Is why pay to play is now the only way
1:54:27
Speaker 1: to do business in Washington. And yes, Congress is inability
1:54:31
Speaker 1: to do anything on the border and on the asylum
1:54:35
Speaker 1: system and to add more and to try to bring
1:54:38
Speaker 1: some order to modernize our immigration system. Is why this
1:54:42
Speaker 1: is essentially thrust upon DHS as sort of the agency
1:54:48
Speaker 1: of last resort here. So I totally understand your frustration Kevin.
1:54:54
Speaker 1: But that is why when I say that Biden failed
1:54:57
Speaker 1: at the border. Yes, you're right, it is Congress. It
1:54:59
Speaker 1: is the ultimate failure. But Biden's West wing did not
1:55:06
Speaker 1: did not let DHS do the basics that could have
1:55:10
Speaker 1: minimized some of that chaos that many of us saw
1:55:16
Speaker 1: at the boar. Next question comes from Scott see and
1:55:20
Speaker 1: Placidus in New Mexico, and he goes, Hey, love the podcast.
1:55:22
Speaker 1: Really appreciate how you how deep you're able to go
1:55:25
Speaker 1: on each topic. Quick question? Do you think one reason
1:55:27
Speaker 1: Christy Nome is still in Trump's orbit is that he
1:55:29
Speaker 1: has his site set on Mount Rushmore. Hasn't set it directly,
1:55:32
Speaker 1: but it would fit his style. Thanks for all you
1:55:33
Speaker 1: do well. I just don't think she has any role
1:55:39
Speaker 1: over that. But that's an interesting theory, and certainly that's
1:55:42
Speaker 1: how she used to work her magic into getting him
1:55:48
Speaker 1: happy with her, which I think she even brought a
1:55:50
Speaker 1: little model of what Mount Rushmore would look like if
1:55:54
Speaker 1: they added a fifth profile there. No, I think it
1:55:57
Speaker 1: is it is. It is Corey Lewandowski, and I think
1:56:00
Speaker 1: it's more of there was an old expression. I think
1:56:03
Speaker 1: it was attributed to LBJ. Do you want somebody pissing
1:56:09
Speaker 1: on your ten or pissing inside your tent. The point being,
1:56:12
Speaker 1: you know, I think I'm batching this a little bit.
1:56:15
Speaker 1: And my apologies for the terrible visual mom I know
1:56:18
Speaker 1: you don't love when I do some of these more
1:56:25
Speaker 1: shall we say, visually uncomfortable metaphors. But the point being
1:56:32
Speaker 1: is if he cuts Nome loose, that also means he
1:56:36
Speaker 1: will cut Corey Lewandowski, his first campaign manager, loose. And
1:56:39
Speaker 1: Corey's a NYE fighter. You know, He's not going to
1:56:42
Speaker 1: go down quietly. And you know, I think it's you know,
1:56:46
Speaker 1: why is Kimberly gilfor an ambassador grease even though she's
1:56:49
Speaker 1: no longer the fiance of Donald Trump Junior. Because he
1:56:53
Speaker 1: doesn't want somebody filling him themselves with grievance, perhaps becoming
1:56:59
Speaker 1: good sources for people like me. And in the first term,
1:57:03
Speaker 1: all the firings he did, all those you know, where
1:57:07
Speaker 1: no staffer ever felt safe, he ended up creating a
1:57:12
Speaker 1: lot of sources for a lot of reporters. And so
1:57:16
Speaker 1: I do think the number one thing that keeps Christy
1:57:19
Speaker 1: Nome's job safe is her relationship with with her with
1:57:24
Speaker 1: with Corey Lewandowski. And I'm not when I say relationship
1:57:28
Speaker 1: or a professional relationship. I know all the rumors that
1:57:31
Speaker 1: are around and all that stuff, but the point being
1:57:33
Speaker 1: is I don't think Trump and I think that some
1:57:39
Speaker 1: of the Trump White House don't want a Corey Lewandowski
1:57:45
Speaker 1: or Christi Nomes available to air dirty laundry. Next question
1:57:54
Speaker 1: comes from Alex Why, and he writes, Hey, I just
1:57:56
Speaker 1: finished listening to your recent podcast on sports betting. I've
1:57:59
Speaker 1: been a fan of yours for at least past decade
1:58:01
Speaker 1: and generally miss you and me the press.
1:58:02
Speaker 2: Thank you.
1:58:02
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear a deeper conversation on wealthy athletes
1:58:05
Speaker 1: and actors endorsing industries that often harm people, like gambling,
1:58:08
Speaker 1: crypto and insurance companies. My own experience with State Farm
1:58:12
Speaker 1: after the line of fire showed how some companies actively
1:58:18
Speaker 1: hurt customers, and maybe a question why high profile figures
1:58:20
Speaker 1: lend them credibility. Appreciate all the thoughtful work you do.
1:58:23
Speaker 1: Go back, go Alex Why. Well, it's interesting and look
1:58:27
Speaker 1: at somebody who's wants you know, certainly needs advertisers to
1:58:34
Speaker 1: support what we're doing. I want to keep everything free
1:58:37
Speaker 1: for all of you whatever I'm doing, but I do
1:58:41
Speaker 1: try to make sure that I'm you know, I certainly
1:58:44
Speaker 1: make sure I'm comfortable with the companies I'm going that
1:58:48
Speaker 1: you want to associate themselves with me, and vice versa.
1:58:53
Speaker 1: I think it's a I wonder if you're going to
1:58:57
Speaker 1: see some athletes express regret in the next few years,
1:59:04
Speaker 1: just like you. I think had some actors quietly realized that,
1:59:10
Speaker 1: you know, what they did with Crypto and FTX, that
1:59:14
Speaker 1: was a bad luck.
1:59:15
Speaker 2: Right.
1:59:16
Speaker 1: As many of you know, I've not been quiet about
1:59:18
Speaker 1: my about my interest in the In the TV show Fallout,
1:59:23
Speaker 1: one of the Walter Groggin's character, he plays, you know,
1:59:26
Speaker 1: sort of two timelines, right, and there's the pre the
1:59:29
Speaker 1: pre sort of destruction of Earth as we know it
1:59:33
Speaker 1: and the posts sort of the post apocalyptic Earth. And
1:59:39
Speaker 1: in pre apocalyptic Earth, he's the spokesperson for the company selling, uh,
1:59:46
Speaker 1: selling access to these to these pods, right that you know,
1:59:51
Speaker 1: these these pods that you would live in, you know,
1:59:53
Speaker 1: these whatever they call them. And you can see, you know,
1:59:58
Speaker 1: that's almost part of the storyline is it develops. You
2:00:01
Speaker 1: can see is discomfort. He's wondering, am I am I
2:00:03
Speaker 1: aligned with the wrong company? Am I am I misleading people?
2:00:06
Speaker 1: Am I a spokesperson for uh, essentially the Evil Doer?
2:00:10
Speaker 1: And it turns out yes, he was the spokesperson for
2:00:13
Speaker 1: the the Evil Doer. Look, I think in this day,
2:00:17
Speaker 1: I believe we're entering a moment where there's going to
2:00:20
Speaker 1: be you know that this is a it's that the
2:00:23
Speaker 1: most unpopular figures in America are going to be the
2:00:25
Speaker 1: corporate CEOs and the and the big companies. Right now,
2:00:30
Speaker 1: you know, we're already we're we're already only like our politicians,
2:00:32
Speaker 1: We're like people like me and the media. I think
2:00:36
Speaker 1: business leaders are next, and and and you're starting to
2:00:39
Speaker 1: see it. But it's a it's a it's a fair question.
2:00:49
Speaker 1: And I do think this conversation on on on sports gambling,
2:00:55
Speaker 1: particularly mobile sports gambling, is one that's going to get
2:00:58
Speaker 1: more traction because I do think the more the the
2:01:02
Speaker 1: most effective conversation to have with the public about sort
2:01:06
Speaker 1: of big tech is sort of the harm how big
2:01:10
Speaker 1: tech is preying on our most or on sort of
2:01:14
Speaker 1: the most on some of our most vulnerable, right kids,
2:01:20
Speaker 1: young adults and older adults. And I think that everything
2:01:26
Speaker 1: you're describing sort of the success of those industries in
2:01:29
Speaker 1: many ways is is their banking on essentially a lot
2:01:38
Speaker 1: of people that can't afford to be gambling, to be gambling,
2:01:42
Speaker 1: and it's you know, it's a bummer because, like I said,
2:01:44
Speaker 1: I enjoy I enjoy gambling, but I can afford to lose.
2:01:49
Speaker 1: I don't was always you know, you're always taught don't
2:01:52
Speaker 1: gamble any don't gamble any money you can't afford to lose.
2:01:58
Speaker 1: And I think we all need to do a job
2:02:00
Speaker 1: of expressing that to folks, particularly younger people, particularly you know,
2:02:05
Speaker 1: in your in your family, orbit reminding people of that
2:02:09
Speaker 1: all the time, not just some of the time, and
2:02:12
Speaker 1: not just you know, uh once or twice at the end.
2:02:20
Speaker 1: Thanks to speed up legal legal ease that says call
2:02:23
Speaker 1: one eight hundred New York Hope or whatever it is,
2:02:25
Speaker 1: you know, if you've got a gambling problem, perhaps they
2:02:29
Speaker 1: shouldn't be just I can't tell you how many podcasts
2:02:31
Speaker 1: where I noticed they put they put all of it
2:02:33
Speaker 1: now at the very end of the podcast. They don't
2:02:35
Speaker 1: do it during the gambling ad itself. The fact that
2:02:40
Speaker 1: that's allowed is probably it's probably a mistake there. But
2:02:45
Speaker 1: it's a fair question. And I wonder if celebrities will
2:02:48
Speaker 1: start to be a bit more discerning on at least
2:02:52
Speaker 1: some of them, probably the higher profile celebrities. Some people, Hey, look,
2:02:57
Speaker 1: you know, everybody's got a price. We all do. Don't
2:03:01
Speaker 1: think you you know, some of you may say, not me.
2:03:04
Speaker 1: We all do. Maybe our price is super high and
2:03:07
Speaker 1: it takes over, you know, and you know, but everybody's.
2:03:11
Speaker 2: Got a price, all right.
2:03:14
Speaker 1: Jim for Michigan. With Democrats pulling out record low approval,
2:03:17
Speaker 1: could the best strategy for holding or flipping seats be
2:03:19
Speaker 1: for moderates to follow Dan Osborne's lead and run as independence.
2:03:22
Speaker 1: As Joe Manchin pointed out, the party label alone can
2:03:25
Speaker 1: be disqualifying in red states. Wooden candidates like Shared Brown,
2:03:28
Speaker 1: Mallory McMorrow, John Asso, James Solarico's stand a better chance
2:03:31
Speaker 1: this way, especially when party in fighting sometimes turns on
2:03:34
Speaker 1: them unfairly. Jim for Michigan. Well, it's certainly what I
2:03:37
Speaker 1: thought in places like it was one of the questions
2:03:40
Speaker 1: I put to Rob sand when he was on this podcast.
2:03:42
Speaker 1: He's the likely Democratic nominee for governor in Iowa. Uh
2:03:46
Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, while he's been a
2:03:48
Speaker 1: Democrat and elected as a Democrat, if he ran as
2:03:51
Speaker 1: an eye, I think it's a virtue signal that would
2:03:54
Speaker 1: probably help him in that race, right, but it does
2:03:58
Speaker 1: get you know, I do think there is a brand issue,
2:04:00
Speaker 1: and I do think independent can have a halo effect, but.
2:04:09
Speaker 2: It is.
2:04:11
Speaker 1: You know, I think that you know, the biggest challenge
2:04:13
Speaker 1: in it when it comes to this growing independent movement
2:04:18
Speaker 1: is so you heard Paul say it, right, you've sort
2:04:24
Speaker 1: of where twenty seven percent d twenty seven percent are
2:04:28
Speaker 1: and essentially forty five to forty six percent independent. But
2:04:32
Speaker 1: if you put those forty six percent of independence on
2:04:35
Speaker 1: an ideological spectrum, you'd have about half of them would
2:04:40
Speaker 1: call themselves would probably be self described moderates, but about
2:04:44
Speaker 1: a quarter would call themselves conservative, and about a quarter
2:04:46
Speaker 1: would call themselves liberal. And so, you know, would I
2:04:54
Speaker 1: like to see an independent candidate run more as a
2:04:56
Speaker 1: constitutionalist and saying, look, this is this is more about
2:04:59
Speaker 1: restoring congressional authority, restoring the representative part of the representative democracy.
2:05:09
Speaker 1: You know, it's now sometimes it's hard to motivate voters
2:05:13
Speaker 1: on process right, voters at the end of the day,
2:05:17
Speaker 1: we're all you know. One of the other things that
2:05:20
Speaker 1: I say I've learned all the time is what is
2:05:22
Speaker 1: this little thing taught me we're all a little bit
2:05:26
Speaker 1: narcissistic because we all think what's happening around us is
2:05:29
Speaker 1: important enough to share. But it also means we're all
2:05:32
Speaker 1: sort of looking what's the benefit to us, And it's
2:05:36
Speaker 1: been hard to translate how a function in Congress will
2:05:40
Speaker 1: eventually be a benefit to you. And so running is
2:05:44
Speaker 1: the person that's going to pledge to actually restore Article
2:05:47
Speaker 1: one in the Constitution. It's not the sexiest message. And
2:05:51
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, people, you know, it's
2:05:53
Speaker 1: like it's like when when Kamala Harris closed on the
2:05:56
Speaker 1: democracy message, right, rather than an affordability mesas it's at
2:06:00
Speaker 1: the end of her presidential campaign. You know, I remember
2:06:03
Speaker 1: talking with some voters who said, look, I care about
2:06:04
Speaker 1: the democracy, but you know, I don't have the luxury
2:06:08
Speaker 1: to worry about it. In addition to worrying about paying
2:06:13
Speaker 1: the paying the grocery bill. You know, I've got the
2:06:17
Speaker 1: luxury to be frustrated and outraged about the current situation
2:06:20
Speaker 1: we're in because I don't have a trauma at my
2:06:25
Speaker 1: house that I'm dealing with, or or an unexpected healthcare
2:06:28
Speaker 1: bill or something like that. And I think that that's
2:06:32
Speaker 1: what's made I think that's what makes appealing as an
2:06:36
Speaker 1: independent very difficult, because you almost feel the need you've
2:06:40
Speaker 1: got to criticize both parties. Then you come across as
2:06:42
Speaker 1: both sides are and it's just it's, you know, I
2:06:50
Speaker 1: think it's more doable for governors. And I say it
2:06:54
Speaker 1: in that I do think that I think you'll when
2:06:57
Speaker 1: you hear this, you'll have already heard my little about
2:07:01
Speaker 1: how I do think that you'll see in a South Dakota. Yeah,
2:07:04
Speaker 1: an independent Senate candidate is going to be more appealing
2:07:07
Speaker 1: than a Democratic Senate candidate. You know, the question is
2:07:13
Speaker 1: can Democrats expand their brand to in such a way
2:07:18
Speaker 1: that it's perfectly normal for them to have guys like
2:07:24
Speaker 1: Joe Manchin. Look, the Democratic Party of the eighties and
2:07:27
Speaker 1: nineties was that way, and you know, arguably they were
2:07:32
Speaker 1: even you know, there was both parties were a little
2:07:34
Speaker 1: more ideologically diverse when I was younger, and that lack
2:07:39
Speaker 1: of perceived ideological diversity is what's driven so many people
2:07:43
Speaker 1: to say, you know what, I'm an independent. I can't
2:07:46
Speaker 1: associate with them, with the Democrats because they've both been defined,
2:07:50
Speaker 1: their brains have been defined by their extremes right, the
2:07:53
Speaker 1: Republican Party has been defined by MAGA and Trump. Democratic
2:07:56
Speaker 1: Party is more defined right now by its progressives, and
2:08:00
Speaker 1: it is by its moderates. And so I think that
2:08:05
Speaker 1: that's you know, can can a party successfully rebrand itself
2:08:09
Speaker 1: as ideologically diverse without coming accus across as a mush
2:08:15
Speaker 1: or a squash? And I think that's been a huge challenge.
2:08:28
Speaker 1: Last question comes from Dakota. He goes, hey, I always
2:08:31
Speaker 1: appreciate your thoughtful takes. What about my unthoughtful takes? Dakota?
2:08:36
Speaker 1: All right, I don't always share the unthoughtful ones. Utah
2:08:38
Speaker 1: Republicans recently passed a lot to expand the state Supreme Court,
2:08:41
Speaker 1: already filled with chop appointees to protect jerry mandered maps.
2:08:44
Speaker 1: Doesn't that class with Governor Spencer Cottson disagree? Better image
2:08:47
Speaker 1: and he just another politician playing a centrist? Could this
2:08:50
Speaker 1: open the door for Democrats to make their own moves
2:08:52
Speaker 1: on court packing? The fact of the matter is the
2:08:54
Speaker 1: answer to what you're saying is yes, right, which is
2:08:57
Speaker 1: what opened the door for Democrats to go harder on jerrymandering.
2:09:01
Speaker 1: Texas decided to open the door in jerrymandering. I mean,
2:09:04
Speaker 1: this is this is where I as sort of somebody
2:09:07
Speaker 1: who sees themselves more as a political reformer than anything else.
2:09:10
Speaker 1: If you're going to try to force me to sort
2:09:12
Speaker 1: of saying, what activist role would you want to play
2:09:16
Speaker 1: outside of journalists, and it would be political reformer. Right,
2:09:19
Speaker 1: We've got and you've heard me rant about these various reforms.
2:09:22
Speaker 1: I think, you know, we should truly have a judiciary
2:09:26
Speaker 1: that is filled with referees. So we should probably you know,
2:09:30
Speaker 1: Supreme Court justice probably should need seventy five votes to
2:09:32
Speaker 1: get confirmation. If you truly want a justice that is
2:09:37
Speaker 1: not that is as neutral as you can possibly find,
2:09:41
Speaker 1: make them get seventy five votes and you're and you're
2:09:43
Speaker 1: likely to have something like that. So yes, if they
2:09:48
Speaker 1: do this and a Spencer Cox right who sort of
2:09:51
Speaker 1: then you're going to see others try to do but
2:09:54
Speaker 1: this is not healthy for our democracy. And yeah, I
2:09:56
Speaker 1: think Look, I look forward to speaking with Governor Cock
2:10:00
Speaker 1: pretty soon. I'm hopeful to get them on one of
2:10:02
Speaker 1: my shows, either the podcast or a new sphere in
2:10:04
Speaker 1: the in the fairly near future. I'm gonna ask them
2:10:06
Speaker 1: about this because I think you're right. I think it's
2:10:09
Speaker 1: it's sort of like, do we have anybody that wants
2:10:11
Speaker 1: to you know, look, I'll take an ideologue left or
2:10:18
Speaker 1: right if you still will put the constitution first. And
2:10:24
Speaker 1: I think that that's let's just say, I expect better
2:10:29
Speaker 1: out of Spencer Cox. I need to learn more about this,
2:10:32
Speaker 1: about this idea of expanding their state Supreme Court. But
2:10:40
Speaker 1: I think one thing we've learned in politics is that
2:10:42
Speaker 1: both parties are copycatters, and when one does it, the
2:10:45
Speaker 1: other is going to do it. And that's been you know,
2:10:48
Speaker 1: one of my big concerns that Democrats decide if you
2:10:53
Speaker 1: can't beat Trump, join them, and it's like, okay, they'll
2:10:57
Speaker 1: do They'll find their own billionaires and they'll find their
2:10:59
Speaker 1: own to players, and we're going to have this like okay,
2:11:03
Speaker 1: you purged everybody from this board. We're going to purge
2:11:07
Speaker 1: everybody from this board. And you did that. You know, eventually,
2:11:11
Speaker 1: it's going to make government even more dysfunctional than it
2:11:14
Speaker 1: appears now if we continue down this road. So you know,
2:11:21
Speaker 1: like I said, I I'm trying to be realistic. I know,
2:11:24
Speaker 1: trying to create a campaign message that's about political reform
2:11:28
Speaker 1: and fairness ain't sexy, but it is something we need,
2:11:34
Speaker 1: which is why I think, Fine, that's the role I'll play.
2:11:36
Speaker 1: That's what you know, that's what I will continue to
2:11:42
Speaker 1: use my podcast to do. All right, that's good this
2:11:46
Speaker 1: week for questions on this front. Oh, I got to
2:11:54
Speaker 1: take this next question because it's from Bloomington, Illinois. And
2:11:56
Speaker 1: I'll tell you why I have to take the question
2:11:58
Speaker 1: from Bloomington, Illinois, because that's where my mother was born.
2:12:01
Speaker 1: In Bloomington, Illinois. My grandfather had a family business that
2:12:06
Speaker 1: he started in Bloomington, Illinois, clothing store there Bloomington. So
2:12:11
Speaker 1: this next question comes. It's greetings from Bloomington, Illinois. It's
2:12:15
Speaker 1: very smart by Lucas to lead with the Bloomington Illinois
2:12:17
Speaker 1: So it ended up sneaking a sixth questionnaire. He says, Hey,
2:12:20
Speaker 1: as a public school teacher and proud Army veteran, I'm
2:12:22
Speaker 1: increasingly concerned that too many schools are failing our students
2:12:25
Speaker 1: and that's a real threat to our democracy. What can
2:12:26
Speaker 1: be done to modernize education for today's world? Also, why
2:12:29
Speaker 1: isn't there more momentum around creating some form of mandatory
2:12:32
Speaker 1: national service to help American see each other as fellow
2:12:34
Speaker 1: citizens and not strangers. Thanks Lucas well. I hope you've
2:12:37
Speaker 1: heard the conversation I had with rom Emmanuel earlier this week,
2:12:40
Speaker 1: because we we went deep on education. I think I
2:12:45
Speaker 1: was at a an off the record setting with a
2:12:50
Speaker 1: former cabinet secretary and a former governor, a Democrat who said,
2:12:56
Speaker 1: you know who was talking about all the different things
2:12:59
Speaker 1: that Democrats need to sort of speak a little more
2:13:01
Speaker 1: truth to power, and one of them was lamenting the
2:13:05
Speaker 1: fact that we've not really done We've not you know,
2:13:09
Speaker 1: the public the basic design of America's public school system
2:13:14
Speaker 1: hasn't changed in one hundred years. That we've not modernized it.
2:13:18
Speaker 1: We've not you know, you know, when I was just
2:13:23
Speaker 1: finished in college, I think most people thought we were
2:13:27
Speaker 1: going to have, you know, that the public school system
2:13:31
Speaker 1: was going to expand from K through twelve to K
2:13:33
Speaker 1: through fourteen, meaning that there was going to be some
2:13:36
Speaker 1: form of a thirteenth and fourteenth grade. Maybe we would
2:13:39
Speaker 1: call it the first two years of communities, maybe be
2:13:42
Speaker 1: community college, whatever it was, but that there was going
2:13:44
Speaker 1: to be a that we were going to essentially add
2:13:46
Speaker 1: two years to the public education system. Maybe it's college credits,
2:13:52
Speaker 1: technical credits. And we never did, right, We never got full.
2:14:00
Speaker 1: But I think that, you know, I look at the
2:14:02
Speaker 1: school system I grew up in Miami Dade and I
2:14:04
Speaker 1: think Miami Dade County, and it is turned into a
2:14:07
Speaker 1: four tiered school system that is as follow as you
2:14:14
Speaker 1: get the private schools and you have the wealthy have
2:14:18
Speaker 1: access to that, you have charter schools and magnet schools,
2:14:24
Speaker 1: and that takes parents to know how to navigate and
2:14:28
Speaker 1: how to figure out which one works best for their kid,
2:14:31
Speaker 1: and the application process and how to get into a
2:14:34
Speaker 1: magnet or how to you know, how to qualify for
2:14:36
Speaker 1: a magnet, or how to get accepted into a charter,
2:14:39
Speaker 1: which is a quasi application process. And then the fourth
2:14:43
Speaker 1: tier is just if you if you can't get into
2:14:47
Speaker 1: a magnet or a charter or a private, you're just
2:14:49
Speaker 1: stuck with whatever school's left. And those schools what I've
2:14:53
Speaker 1: never understood. And my old high schools turned into one
2:14:56
Speaker 1: of these words. They didn't become a magnet, and it
2:14:59
Speaker 1: just sort of deteriorated over time. The schools in mind
2:15:04
Speaker 1: that were that became magnet schools for something, maybe for
2:15:07
Speaker 1: the arts, maybe for stem maybe for they've even had
2:15:11
Speaker 1: one for like, you know, meteorology, and coding all sorts
2:15:14
Speaker 1: of things. Having those magnet schools rose the success rate
2:15:19
Speaker 1: of the entire school system, of the that entire school
2:15:26
Speaker 1: And I do think the magnet system, of all the
2:15:30
Speaker 1: different experiments has been was was the one that was
2:15:36
Speaker 1: open to everybody.
2:15:37
Speaker 2: Right.
2:15:37
Speaker 1: It wasn't wasn't fully gaming the system, but it was
2:15:42
Speaker 1: a reminder every school should be a magnet for something.
2:15:45
Speaker 1: Every school should have a specialty in something. There's also
2:15:51
Speaker 1: this issue of age, right, which is you know, there's
2:15:54
Speaker 1: there's a lot more there's a lot more research that
2:15:59
Speaker 1: indicates everybody learns at different paces, and some people need
2:16:07
Speaker 1: fifteen years to get through twelve years of school and
2:16:09
Speaker 1: some people maybe need ten years to get through twelve
2:16:11
Speaker 1: years of school. But we've not, you know, we continue
2:16:15
Speaker 1: and certainly the socialization matters a lot, and there's plenty
2:16:18
Speaker 1: of studies that indicate that, you know, that's that also
2:16:21
Speaker 1: can be stunting, right if people aren't with their peers
2:16:27
Speaker 1: every step of the way, But we've created you know,
2:16:31
Speaker 1: I think it's held us back into figuring out how
2:16:34
Speaker 1: to you know, if the goal is like what's the
2:16:37
Speaker 1: best way to teach kids hard stop?
2:16:41
Speaker 2: Right?
2:16:43
Speaker 1: And you know, whether it's look, Rob Emmanuel, I thought
2:16:48
Speaker 1: put it pretty well, and he said, you know, the
2:16:50
Speaker 1: Republican answer in education has simply been got the public
2:16:53
Speaker 1: school system and just go vouchers and let people decide
2:16:56
Speaker 1: on their own, you know, essentially, let a market sort
2:17:00
Speaker 1: of decide which are the good schools and which are
2:17:02
Speaker 1: the bad schools. And he said, and the Democrats gave
2:17:04
Speaker 1: up on accountability, right, They pushed back against teacher testing,
2:17:08
Speaker 1: pushed back against student testing, and now you're starting to
2:17:11
Speaker 1: see maybe student testing is back. In fact, Ram sounded
2:17:17
Speaker 1: like he missed No Child Left Behind, which was a
2:17:20
Speaker 1: famous Bush initiative that he passed with Ted Kennedy. But
2:17:25
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, education has fallen off the national conversation.
2:17:30
Speaker 1: And I know that obviously, in education is one of
2:17:34
Speaker 1: those issues that are yes, we all know it's locally controlled,
2:17:39
Speaker 1: but it is an important issue. It's one of the
2:17:40
Speaker 1: top three issues for most people under the age of fifty.
2:17:43
Speaker 1: They got kids in school usually, and that matters. In fact,
2:17:46
Speaker 1: I think one of the reasons why Republicans have made
2:17:49
Speaker 1: inroads with Latinos is you do any poll of Latinos
2:17:52
Speaker 1: and usually the top two issues are the economy and education.
2:17:55
Speaker 1: In some order, and Democrats basically for the last fifteen
2:18:01
Speaker 1: years have just stopped talking about education nationally. Rob and
2:18:04
Speaker 1: I talked about this on my podcast earlier this week.
2:18:10
Speaker 1: Republicans are the ones talking about it, you know, And
2:18:13
Speaker 1: I think it explains why you've seen Latinos be open
2:18:18
Speaker 1: to supporting Republicans, because Latinos have been more open to
2:18:22
Speaker 1: school choice. They want good education, whatever it takes. And
2:18:26
Speaker 1: I think it's sort of like, what's the best energy
2:18:28
Speaker 1: policy all of the above, what's the best education policy
2:18:32
Speaker 1: all of the above. And I think ultimately that's what
2:18:37
Speaker 1: we all want to hear. Now. As for your national service,
2:18:40
Speaker 1: and count me in, I've you know, I think mandatory
2:18:43
Speaker 1: national service. I think when you look at the incredible
2:18:50
Speaker 1: devotion Israelis have for their citizenship, they all have to serve,
2:18:56
Speaker 1: right for two years, they basically have a mandatory national service.
2:19:03
Speaker 1: It and look, they have messy politics, but it does
2:19:09
Speaker 1: create an identity. And I think when we had the draft,
2:19:15
Speaker 1: sort of forced national military service, if you will, for
2:19:18
Speaker 1: many basically for you know, my generations, the first one
2:19:23
Speaker 1: that didn't get didn't have to deal with a mandatory draft.
2:19:27
Speaker 1: Essentially my father did, my grandfather did, my grandfather's, my
2:19:32
Speaker 1: great grandfather did. All ended up drafted or eligibly drafted. Now,
2:19:39
Speaker 1: no one's saying we should go back to a military draft,
2:19:41
Speaker 1: although I do think that sharing that, but mandatory national
2:19:46
Speaker 1: service where you have Right America and Blue America kids
2:19:51
Speaker 1: and from both of those areas working together, maybe in
2:19:54
Speaker 1: a rural school, maybe in an urban school, maybe clean
2:20:00
Speaker 1: up a river, maybe helping to build housing, maybe to
2:20:08
Speaker 1: work at a food kitchen, whatever it is, but service
2:20:12
Speaker 1: to the country. Look, I think citizenship when you go
2:20:16
Speaker 1: to Israel, when you visit Israel. Remember the first time
2:20:18
Speaker 1: I went to Israel, it really hit me that citizenship
2:20:21
Speaker 1: was active there. Whatever you whatever your opinion is about
2:20:24
Speaker 1: the Israeli government, Israeli citizens, they take their citizenship seriously
2:20:30
Speaker 1: because you know, they got to keep their head on
2:20:33
Speaker 1: a swivel. I do think national service would help us
2:20:44
Speaker 1: collectively value our citizenship more citizenship. There's a little bit
2:20:51
Speaker 1: of work that comes with it, not a lot, but
2:20:54
Speaker 1: a little bit. And if you know, ultimately, you know
2:20:57
Speaker 1: it's like I say this to you, don't like what
2:21:00
Speaker 1: you know? It's on you. Ultimately everybody plays a role here.
2:21:06
Speaker 1: You can't hope some politician bails, you know, fixes this problem,
2:21:10
Speaker 1: or some celebrity or some member of the press. It's
2:21:13
Speaker 1: going to do your job. You got to do the job.
2:21:15
Speaker 1: And I do think national service. It's interesting to see
2:21:18
Speaker 1: who's who are the big advocates for national service.
2:21:22
Speaker 2: George W.
2:21:22
Speaker 1: Bush was I don't think Trump thinks about it. Wes
2:21:27
Speaker 1: Moore is doing a pilot state, basically a National service
2:21:33
Speaker 1: like project. You know, essentially in exchange for National service,
2:21:36
Speaker 1: you get two years of free college something like that. Right,
2:21:38
Speaker 1: you do?
2:21:39
Speaker 2: You do?
2:21:40
Speaker 1: You know, that's you give to the country, country gets
2:21:43
Speaker 1: back to you, sort of almost a GI bill for
2:21:47
Speaker 1: the country. And yeah, I think it would lessen polarization.
2:21:55
Speaker 1: It's not a full depolarization, but I think it would
2:21:57
Speaker 1: lessen to polarization. But here's the most import and think Lucas.
2:22:01
Speaker 1: My favorite question of the day came from somebody from Bloomington, Illinois.
2:22:05
Speaker 1: It's going to make my family very happy. Smart question,
2:22:12
Speaker 1: pro very patriotic question, very important question, touching a lot
2:22:17
Speaker 1: of nerves. And I looked at you, there's no This
2:22:22
Speaker 1: is why I'm always an advocate of military veterans running
2:22:25
Speaker 1: for office, because I think they understand the importance of
2:22:29
Speaker 1: the first hand they've gotten, they've seen the importance of citizenship.
2:22:33
Speaker 1: They've also they they serve with people that are liberal, conservative, red, blue, rural, urban, black, white, Hispanic,
2:22:46
Speaker 1: jew Christian, Muslim. You get my point, and all of
2:22:51
Speaker 1: them have each other's back, and if they don't, they
2:22:56
Speaker 1: all get hurt. Right, So you know it better than
2:23:00
Speaker 1: most being an Army veteran, Lucas, so you get it.
2:23:04
Speaker 1: But we all need to get it better. And I
2:23:08
Speaker 1: think national service, you know, it is is a I
2:23:15
Speaker 1: think it's something we need now more than ever because
2:23:19
Speaker 1: of this, you know, sort of the lost faith we've
2:23:21
Speaker 1: had in each other, lost faith we have in our democracy,
2:23:27
Speaker 1: and maybe this is a way to a way to
2:23:31
Speaker 1: take a step to try to repair it. Well with that,
2:23:37
Speaker 1: I think that's a much better note to end on. Look,
2:23:40
Speaker 1: it's the big light sports weekend. I will just say
2:23:44
Speaker 1: here I am I'm I love the Olympics. My friends
2:23:48
Speaker 1: at the Gold Zone. I love the Gold Zone. This
2:23:52
Speaker 1: is the you know, man, I love when the Olympics
2:23:55
Speaker 1: are in Europe because you get up in the morning
2:23:57
Speaker 1: on the East Coast Saturday morning, by the way, you know,
2:24:01
Speaker 1: I get up early no matter what, because I've got
2:24:03
Speaker 1: dogs that are going to get up no matter what. Right,
2:24:05
Speaker 1: So I'm getting up early, get that coffee going, and
2:24:08
Speaker 1: the Olympics are up and there's active stuff going on.
2:24:10
Speaker 1: And what I love about the Gold Zone is, look,
2:24:13
Speaker 1: I I you know, the sappy stories are nice and
2:24:16
Speaker 1: all of this, and I know some people love the
2:24:18
Speaker 1: sort of the soap opera of the Olympics. I like
2:24:21
Speaker 1: the competition. And what's great about the Gold Zone is
2:24:25
Speaker 1: they go to competition and it's not always just follow
2:24:27
Speaker 1: the Americans. They just wherever there's a gold medal competition happening,
2:24:31
Speaker 1: they take it to it. So you end up getting
2:24:35
Speaker 1: to see a variety of sports. So look, I know
2:24:37
Speaker 1: there's no football and we're all pining. You know, some
2:24:40
Speaker 1: of us are going to be bummed out about that.
2:24:42
Speaker 1: But you know what, the Olympics are terrific. And the technology,
2:24:47
Speaker 1: I mean, the ability to follow these skiers now and
2:24:49
Speaker 1: all of this stuff and all the different camera angles
2:24:53
Speaker 1: that you have and the go pros, it's unbelievable. It's
2:24:56
Speaker 1: an incredible experience to watch on TV these days. In fact,
2:25:00
Speaker 1: it's scary that it is. The Olympics are much better
2:25:03
Speaker 1: to see, and I think on TV than they are
2:25:06
Speaker 1: in person, unless you have a family member competing, it's
2:25:11
Speaker 1: that good. And hey, we're two weeks from March Madness beginning,
2:25:15
Speaker 1: so you got to start thinking about those brackets. You
2:25:17
Speaker 1: got to if you want to try to do well,
2:25:19
Speaker 1: you got to start watching some of these. And we're
2:25:22
Speaker 1: getting We're in the heart of conference season, and there's
2:25:25
Speaker 1: nothing more fun than watching a ranked team go on
2:25:29
Speaker 1: the road try to win a conference road game. Because
2:25:32
Speaker 1: the toughest thing in sports, I think the toughest thing
2:25:35
Speaker 1: in all of college sports is to win a conference
2:25:41
Speaker 1: road game. And I don't care how good you are
2:25:43
Speaker 1: and how bad the team is, it is there's nothing
2:25:46
Speaker 1: like going into an enemy arena. The crowd gets fired up,
2:25:50
Speaker 1: students just want to storm the court. I do think
2:25:53
Speaker 1: my friends at the University of Miami didn't need to
2:25:55
Speaker 1: be storming a court after beating North Carolina. You should
2:25:57
Speaker 1: expect to beat North Carolina at home. So I do
2:26:01
Speaker 1: think we're court storming a bit too much. But I
2:26:06
Speaker 1: know I've got plenty to watch this weekend, So whether
2:26:09
Speaker 1: it's a couple of great college basketball games or the
2:26:11
Speaker 1: Gold Zone, that's how I'm going to be spending my
2:26:14
Speaker 1: sports weekend. Yes, I'll miss a little bit of football,
2:26:17
Speaker 1: but you know I've got my side hustle on sports
2:26:20
Speaker 1: cards to keep me busy as well. So with that,
2:26:23
Speaker 1: I'll see in seventy two hours