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#0141_STORY INSPIRE: Decisions that transforman, with Dave Smith · INSPIRE STORY

0:04
Speaker 1: The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast
0:08
by night, all day. So, Dave, you were telling me
0:14
right before the show that you are now retiring because
0:17
you got an impromptu phone call and bet hundreds of
0:21
millions of dollars on oil prices going down. Congratulations.
0:26
Speaker 2: It was a good bet. It just wasn't timed right.
0:29
Speaker 1: I thought you got it in on time. I thought
0:31
you got it in like five minutes early. I did not.
0:37
How is there not a massive investigation into that right away?
0:40
Didn't someone make like $ 1. 8 billion in like five minutes?
0:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of those, like trades like that
0:48
that should be investigated that kind of never are.
0:51
Speaker 1: How about, what's his name, Lutnik? Yeah, how about that one?
0:56
Speaker 2: So he's working for the administration and also standing to
1:01
gain huge if people can sue over the tariffs, right?
1:06
Speaker 1: Well, explain the whole thing. Do you know the actual
1:10
details of it? No, I don't really know the details.
1:11
So essentially he was telling everybody that, you know, don't
1:14
sweat it. The tariffs are golden. We're getting them through.
1:18
There's going to be no problems. Is that what it was?
1:21
But meanwhile, he was shorting the tariffs? Yes.
1:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he was personally shorting them.
1:24
Speaker 1: While promoting them. Let's find out what that actually is
1:26
so we don't get sued. Sure, sure, sure. I bet
1:27
he's a quite litigious gentleman. Yeah, he might be. Let's
1:31
see if we can find it. I don't know what
1:34
that means there. Is it wild that people are on
1:36
the files, visit the island, and then they still work?
1:39
Speaker 2: It was unbelievable.
1:40
Speaker 1: Some people had to resign from some jobs.
1:42
Speaker 2: Well, especially just him because he– the way– there's something
1:47
about a really confident liar. Because, I mean, that interview
1:52
clip where he's like– let me tell you something. I
1:53
met Jeffrey Epstein that one time. He had a massage table.
1:55
He said they were sex massage tables. I went right
1:57
back to my wife and I said, honey– We are
1:59
never hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein again. And that is that.
2:03
Speaker 1: Is that really the quote? I haven't seen that.
2:06
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's verbatim, but that is the
2:08
exact spirit of it.
2:09
Speaker 1: It's probably pretty verbatim. Let's listen to it.
2:11
Speaker 2: Listen to it? I'm very, very close to exactly what
2:14
he said.
2:15
Speaker 1: Okay.
2:15
Speaker 3: Let me get this one again. What was this one?
2:17
Speaker 2: Let Nick interview about Epstein. And he just sounds, I mean,
2:21
so like morally outraged about the idea.
2:24
Speaker 1: There's so many people that they exist in that world
2:27
where you just pretend that you're a different person. You
2:30
pretend you're one way. You pretend you think things differently.
2:35
Speaker 2: I've been up close with people like that. That was
2:37
my takeaway from debating Chris Cuomo was like I just–
2:40
it's a weird thing to see someone just lie like that.
2:43
Speaker 1: Here it is. Now, this is the one that says
2:45
he's the greatest blackmailer ever.
2:49
Speaker 3: Which quote am I trying to find?
2:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, try to explain it to him. It was... Let
2:54
me see the keywords that would....
2:57
Speaker 2: Downplays relationship with him. That might be it.
3:02
Speaker 3: There was something on the other thing, but I don't
3:03
know what that is.
3:04
Speaker 1: What does he do?
3:07
Speaker 2: He's a commerce secretary. He was always like a money
3:10
finance guy. I think he used to work for CNBC,
3:14
if I'm correct.
3:15
Speaker 1: In this administration, this like... The wolves have taken over
3:18
the hen house. Yeah. Yeah, they sure have.
3:21
Speaker 2: This is what draining the swamp looks like.
3:25
Speaker 1: Under fire for Epstein ties, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick defends
3:29
visiting his private island.
3:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, but this isn't the clip. The clip was from.
3:33
Speaker 1: Oh, at the top it says, Lutnick said in an
3:37
interview last year he was never in the room with
3:39
Epstein other than a 2005 visit to his apartment. Okay,
3:44
so that's probably it, he said. You know, he met
3:47
him once and was like, this guy sucks.
3:49
Speaker 2: But he specifically says that he met him, that he
3:52
saw he had a massage table in his living room.
3:55
And he goes, hey, Jeffrey, what do you, you really
3:57
like massages? And he claims that Jeffrey went, yeah, and
4:00
the right kind of massages. And that's when he decided
4:04
he would never talk to him again.
4:06
Speaker 1: Nobody likes the right kind of massages. Those are terrible.
4:09
Imagine if those were legal, just hand job massages. There'd
4:13
be no relationships. How many people are in terrible relationships
4:20
just because they need sex? There's a lot of guys
4:23
who'd be like, I'm just going to hang out with
4:24
the boys, just get jerked off once on Wednesday. And
4:27
I'm good. Howard Lending downplays relationship with Epstein during Senate testimony. Testimony.
4:32
I don't know. Is this it?
4:34
Speaker 2: No, this is from recently. This is from this year.
4:37
Speaker 3: I did find an article that kind of– I don't
4:39
even know what this website is, though.
4:40
Speaker 1: I don't know if– This old firm did not, in fact,
4:44
profit from the Supreme Court tariff ruling.
4:47
Speaker 3: It says that there was an article claiming it, and
4:49
then I was trying to dig through this.
4:51
Speaker 1: We better edit that out then.
4:52
Speaker 3: I mean, it was reported, though, that they did, but
4:56
I don't know what this says.
4:59
Speaker 1: It says the firm is run by his two sons.
5:02
Elder Lutnick announced the sale of the stake in the
5:05
firm and other investors to the Supreme Court on Friday,
5:08
invalidated many of Trump's tariffs. The president said, okay, Castor
5:14
did not consider the product, which has existed for years,
5:17
was humming trade on Wall Street's Trump first term tariff push,
5:23
but decided against it after weighing the political sensitivities. According
5:26
to a senior banker familiar with this matter, Cantor spokesman
5:30
said the salesman erroneously believed the firm was likely to
5:33
green light the business. Okay, I'm missing this. I'm not
5:36
exactly sure what they're saying here.
5:38
Speaker 3: There's a.
5:38
Speaker 1: This is just the legality of tariffs we're discussing now.
5:41
Speaker 3: I was trying.
5:45
Speaker 1: To figure out the accuracy of all this and whatnot.
5:48
So what was the accusation? The accusation was that he
5:51
had shorted tariffs while claiming that tariffs are going to work.
5:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, the accusation was that he stood to make a
5:59
lot of money from tariffs being struck down.
6:01
Speaker 1: Why don't you put that into perplexity, Jamie, and find
6:05
out if that's accurate and let it scour the internet
6:07
instead of us doing it. God, I love AI. Yeah,
6:11
it is something. I can't wait until it takes over government.
6:14
It's going to be awesome.
6:15
Speaker 2: After a while, you're like, I don't know if it
6:17
could be much worse than what humans are doing with government.
6:19
Speaker 1: It's going to be better. It's not going to be greedy.
6:22
Speaker 2: Well, as long as it determines that human life is valuable,
6:25
I feel like it's really the big— Which humans?
6:27
Speaker 1: So, let's be honest. You know, some homeless guy is
6:30
taking a shit on your Jaguar.
6:32
Speaker 2: Is that guy really valuable? Yeah, but to AI, we
6:35
all might be homeless guys taking a shit.
6:37
Speaker 1: Did you see that there was these San Francisco tech guys,
6:40
and they got trapped in their Waymo because a homeless
6:42
guy started attacking the Waymo and yelling at them, why
6:45
are you paying robots?
6:47
Speaker 3: No.
6:47
Speaker 1: Yeah. You're a traitor. You're paying robots. You're paying the robots.
6:51
The homeless guy was upset about this? The homeless guy
6:53
was attacking the Waymo. The tech guys were in the Waymo.
6:56
We were terrified for our life. We feared our safety
6:59
because they're being attacked by a crazy person who's saying
7:02
you shouldn't be giving money to robots.
7:04
Speaker 2: That's an uncomfortable position to be in.
7:05
Speaker 1: I get all my information from the Tim Dillon Show,
7:08
by the way. But they did play a clip. It's
7:10
not the worst source of information. It's the best source.
7:13
Him and that dude. What's his name? James Lee. He's
7:16
our other number one source of information. Conspiracy theorist.
7:20
Speaker 2: There you go.
7:21
Speaker 1: There you go. But another one, a Waymo gal got in,
7:25
and there's a fucking homeless guy in the trunk. Because
7:28
apparently the last person, when they left their Waymo, they
7:32
opened the trunk to get their luggage out, and they
7:34
never closed it. So the homeless guy hopped into their
7:38
fucking Waymo. And closed it on himself. It was in
7:41
the trunk. So she orders a Waymo. She climbs in.
7:44
There's a homeless guy in the trunk. And Waymo's like,
7:47
that's unacceptable. Oh, you think? Oh, you think? Okay. The
7:53
main claim is that Cantor Fitzgerald, Howard Letnick's former firm
7:57
now chaired by his son, stood to profit by buying
8:00
tariff refund rights that only- became valuable if Trump's tariffs
8:05
were overturned, but the firm insists it ultimately did not
8:08
execute those trades. What critics say happened. Investigators and reporting,
8:13
notably by Wired, described Cantor Fitzgerald exploring a business where
8:17
it would buy the rights to future tariff refunds from
8:20
importers for about 20 or 30 cents on the dollar.
8:23
Internal material cited in those reports suggested Cantor had capacity
8:27
to trade several hundred million dollars of these refund rights,
8:30
and had already facilitated at least one trade of around
8:33
$ 10 million in rights under the IEEPA tariffs. The idea
8:39
was that if courts later struck down the tariffs, the
8:40
government would have to refund duties, and Cantor or its
8:44
clients would collect the full refund while the original importers
8:48
only kept a small upfront payment. So why is this
8:51
seen as a conflict? Is it true? So it does
8:54
say that they executed on one, right? Didn't it say that?
8:57
Scroll back up.
8:57
Speaker 3: That was based off that email.
8:59
Speaker 1: Yeah. It says internal material cited in those reports suggested
9:03
Cantor had capacity to trade and had already facilitated at
9:08
least one trade of around $ 10 million in rights. It's
9:12
only $ 10 million. Let it go, Dave.
9:14
Speaker 2: That is small potatoes for what we're talking about.
9:16
Speaker 1: For those guys. Yeah. For these kind of guys. Uh-huh.
9:18
What Cantor and Letnick's side say. Cantor Fitzgerald has publicly
9:22
stated that while some salespeople explored, I like that in quotes,
9:27
Brokering tariff refund rates in 2025, the firm never executed
9:32
any transactions or taken any position on tariff refund claims,
9:37
calling contrary reports false. Follow-up recording has echoed that Cantor
9:42
considered products tied to the Supreme Court tariff ruling but
9:45
ultimately backed off, in part because of the political optics, duh,
9:51
that's a big duh, around Letnick's government job. Latest coverage,
9:55
is no public evidence that Cantor actually booked profits from
9:59
this strategy, though the investigations in Congress are ongoing and
10:04
focus on whether there was any attempted or potential profiteer.
10:10
Are you more interested in the ethics conflicts of interest
10:12
or the nuts and bolts of how the secondary tariff
10:14
refund market works financially?
10:16
Speaker 4: No.
10:16
Speaker 1: So it seems like we don't really have evidence.
10:18
Speaker 2: Well, it will be interesting. I mean if– which is
10:21
probably going to happen. But the Democrats take the House
10:24
and the Senate in the midterm elections this year. I
10:27
mean they're going to be– that will just be the
10:29
next two years of politics will be investigations and subpoenas.
10:32
Speaker 1: Some Democrat lady just over– she just took over the
10:35
seat in Trump's neighborhood where Mar-a-Lago is. So a Democrat
10:40
lady just won. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's these. Yeah.
10:44
Speaker 2: I mean, look, they in his first term, they impeached
10:46
him twice for absolute bullshit. So they'll go after him
10:51
for anything. But I have a feeling now there's probably
10:54
a lot more for them to investigate and work on
10:57
stuff like this and the meme coin stuff and, you know,
11:01
whatever business deal. You know, I don't I don't have
11:04
the details at the top of my mind, but I
11:06
do know that they said at one point that Jared
11:10
Kushner would not be involved in. in this administration at
11:12
all because he does so much business over there. And
11:15
it's just like– so they were like, oh, no, no, no,
11:17
he won't. But now he totally is. Him and Witkoff
11:19
are like the lead negotiators.
11:22
Speaker 1: In this too.
11:22
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of meat on the bone for
11:25
Democrats to make big political theater out of for the
11:28
next two years.
11:28
Speaker 1: Is there anywhere that's not corrupt? I mean when we
11:32
look at the insider trading in Congress, when you look
11:35
at all these slimy deals that get made with NGOs–
11:39
You look at it. It's like everything's dirty. There's not
11:42
one part of government like right there. They nailed it.
11:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that is true.
11:47
Speaker 1: Like maybe the post office. That's I mean, post office
11:51
is pretty fucking good, dude. Yeah.
11:53
Speaker 2: Compared to all the rest of it.
11:54
Speaker 1: Sure. Get us a letter moved across the whole country
11:58
for like, what is it, like 30 cents? How much
12:00
is a stamp these days?
12:01
Speaker 2: That's true. I mean I don't know if you include
12:04
the cost on the back end like the taxes that
12:06
pay for the whole thing. Maybe it's a little more expensive.
12:08
But relatively speaking, yeah.
12:10
Speaker 1: Relatively speaking.
12:11
Speaker 2: You can get something done.
12:12
Speaker 1: It's not a bad organization.
12:14
Speaker 4: Sure.
12:14
Speaker 1: In terms of government organizations, you never hear except going postal.
12:17
That used to be a thing. Remember those days? Yes,
12:20
I did. There was a while like where so many
12:23
post officers went so crazy and started shooting people that
12:25
they started calling it going postal. But it never, it
12:29
just went away. Yeah.
12:30
Speaker 2: Young people, if you're listening to this and you don't
12:31
know what we're talking about, in our day, we didn't
12:33
have school shootings.
12:34
Speaker 1: Okay.
12:34
Speaker 2: We had to do it the old fashioned way. You
12:36
had to drive a postman crazy until he went around
12:38
shooting people. And it happened several times to the point
12:41
that that became a thing. Like these crazy postal workers.
12:45
Speaker 1: There was a video game called Postal where you run
12:48
around shooting people. It was in the, I want to
12:51
say the 90s.
12:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be about the time period.
12:54
Speaker 3: The first one came out in 97?
12:55
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And it was like highly criticized. They were like,
12:59
weren't they like cartoon looking characters? Can you see if
13:01
you pull up a video of Postal? It was like,
13:05
they're like South Park looking characters, just blasted people. So
13:08
it felt like less, if I remember correctly, or maybe
13:11
that's the box. I never played it. Maybe I played it. Oh,
13:15
this is new stuff. This is going Postal?
13:17
Speaker 5: No.
13:17
Speaker 1: Pissing everywhere. This looks way better than 1990s, dude. This
13:21
was in the 90s for sure. Is this the new postal?
13:24
Speaker 3: Here's what it looked like. There might have been a
13:26
newer version right there.
13:27
Speaker 1: Oh, Jesus. You just run around jacking people.
13:31
Speaker 5: Yeah.
13:32
Speaker 1: So it was like the first Grand Theft Auto, really.
13:33
Kind of.
13:34
Speaker 3: I mean, Grand Theft Auto came out around then, too, actually.
13:36
It didn't look like this then, though.
13:38
Speaker 1: But real weird, though, right? That post office workers were
13:41
just killing a bunch of people. That's what it looked like.
13:44
Like that. Okay. This is what it looked like. It
13:50
didn't look like that other thing. It was like... It
13:54
wasn't a first-person thing. It was like you're seeing it
13:56
from above and you just run around killing everybody. I
13:58
played a Postal, though.
13:59
Speaker 3: That wasn't first-person like that.
14:00
Speaker 1: Maybe they had more versions of it.
14:02
Speaker 3: Also, I don't want to show it because I don't
14:04
know what's... There could be some bad stuff on there.
14:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably.
14:07
Speaker 2: Dude, video games really are like crack.
14:11
Speaker 1: They're a problem.
14:12
Speaker 2: I loved your... You had a rant about that years
14:14
ago about how the problem is that they're so much
14:16
fun and you're not accomplishing anything.
14:18
Speaker 1: Yep.
14:19
Speaker 2: The last video game I got into was UFC 3,
14:24
and I loved that game.
14:25
Speaker 1: I just loved it.
14:26
Speaker 2: And then, like, I think it was I got married,
14:29
my wife got pregnant, and I was like, all right,
14:30
I got to get rid of this.
14:31
Speaker 1: I just can't.
14:32
Speaker 2: So I was at the Dojo of Comedy. It was
14:35
a club in New Jersey. Great club.
14:37
Speaker 1: They have an L.A. one, too. Oh, do they? Okay.
14:40
Sam Tripoli. Oh, yeah. Shout out to Sam. Yeah.
14:44
Speaker 2: So I was at the one in Jersey, and they
14:46
have in the green room– They have UFC 3. And
14:49
I was like, oh, that's the game that I got
14:51
really into. So I was there for a weekend. And
14:53
I mean, I just, the whole time I was there,
14:55
just in the green room playing this video game. And
14:57
I was like, it was like a feeling almost like
15:01
Like a drug addict who's around their drug of choice
15:03
where I was like, I need to be away from that. Like,
15:05
I will play this until I kill myself.
15:07
Speaker 1: It's so much fun. It's a problem.
15:09
Speaker 2: Robbie Lawler fighting, you know, whoever.
15:13
Speaker 1: And they keep getting better. Yeah, I know.
15:14
Speaker 2: Well, I stopped at that, so I never even, like,
15:17
learned how to play the new ones.
15:19
Speaker 1: What number UFC game are they at now? Five, I think. Five.
15:25
The graphics keep getting better. The movement keeps getting more natural.
15:28
Speaker 4: Yeah.
15:29
Speaker 1: Yeah. And first-person shooters, man. Oh, my God.
15:31
Speaker 2: That's so good now. Was it Joe Lozon, I want
15:35
to say? Was the guy, 155 guy, really good grappler?
15:38
Wasn't his thing like he was obsessed with video games
15:41
and then he went, I got to just do something
15:43
else instead of this. So he just did jujitsu.
15:45
Speaker 1: And then he just got.
15:46
Speaker 2: Like amazing at jujitsu. I swear I think that was
15:49
his story.
15:49
Speaker 1: Is that really what happened?
15:50
Speaker 2: I could be misremembering this, but I swear I heard
15:52
him talk about this in an interview once. And that
15:54
there was just, like, I just played video games all day,
15:56
all night. And then eventually I was like, I got
15:58
to do something productive with this. And so I just
16:00
started doing jiu-jitsu instead.
16:01
Speaker 1: I wonder what he's up to these days. He was
16:03
a fun guy. He was a fun fighter to watch.
16:05
Fun dude, like, in person, too. Him and his brother
16:08
used to beat the fuck out of each other on
16:10
the yard, like, in the front yard. They would have, like,
16:12
full-on MMA fights, like, full power. They'd just beat the
16:15
piss out of each other in the front yard. I
16:17
was like, boys. Save it. Wail on each other. It's crazy.
16:24
That's a young man's game. They had a bunch of
16:26
guys hanging around. It looked like it was a picnic
16:28
or something like that. They decided, let's spice this picnic up.
16:30
You and me fight, motherfucker. And they would fight. Fight, fight.
16:33
Speaker 2: But all across this country, there are boys fighting in
16:37
their yard. And that was the highest level of yard fighting.
16:42
I mean, that was top 1%. Oh, that was vicious.
16:44
You get two, like, legit MMA professionals.
16:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, two legit MMA professionals are mad at each other
16:50
because they're in the house with each other all the time.
16:52
Shut the fuck. You didn't fucking do that. You were
16:55
supposed to put that shit away. Yeah, yeah. That was, uh...
16:59
You ate my food. Yeah.
17:03
Speaker 2: They both ended up being real fun fighters to watch, though.
17:05
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, yeah. Joe was awesome. He was a great fighter. Yeah,
17:08
he had a lot of fights in the UFC, too. Yep.
17:11
And I think it got to, you know, how many
17:16
years was he in? God, I want to say he
17:18
was at least in the UFC for like around a decade.
17:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, he had a pretty long career.
17:24
Speaker 1: Yeah.
17:24
Speaker 2: Because he was fighting, I mean, he fought, I don't know.
17:29
I mean, he fought like the whole, like I think
17:31
when he started was like BJ Penn era of lightweight.
17:34
And then he fought into like Anthony Pettis was the champion.
17:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, but pull up Lozon's Wikipedia and find out when
17:40
he retired.
17:41
Speaker 3: Well, his first fight was September 23, 2006. And I
17:45
think his last fight was 2019.
17:47
Speaker 1: Wow. That's crazy. 2019. Some of these guys just don't
17:54
want to stop. It's just too fun.
17:57
Speaker 2: It's a very hard job to keep going for a while.
18:01
Speaker 1: Maybe the hardest. Yeah. You know, like on your body. Oh, yeah.
18:05
Other than football. There's a lot of those guys in
18:08
the NFL. They only last a couple of years.
18:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
18:10
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18:47
Speaker 2: No, I mean, that's a real tough one, but there's nothing. Well,
18:51
I guess, I guess like professional football, there's a similar
18:54
aspect to where like, you're not just, I mean, look,
18:57
you can go to the hospital from basketball. You know,
19:00
you can get hurt and get a bad injury, but,
19:03
The NFL or the UFC, you kind of like, you know,
19:07
every time you go into it, like there's a very
19:09
reasonable chance you're leaving here on a stretcher to go
19:12
to the hospital. But particularly with MMA, it's the most
19:16
unforgiving sport where like you you're one mistake, one mistake
19:22
away from like, you know, like if LeBron James misses
19:24
a wide open layup, he runs back on defense and
19:27
tries to, you know, get a block or something on
19:29
the next play. But in MMA, you could be dominating,
19:32
fighting a perfect fight, make one mistake, and it's like, okay,
19:35
you're unconscious now.
19:37
Speaker 1: Leon Edwards, Kamaru Usman, perfect example. Kamaru's way ahead in
19:41
the fight. It's in the fifth round. I think there's
19:43
like 20 seconds to go or something crazy. And Leon
19:47
just plants one, a perfect head kick. And John Anik
19:52
makes the perfect call. Something had been said about him
19:56
maybe deciding to quit. And then John Anik says, but
20:00
that is not the cloth from which he was cut. Boom,
20:03
head kick knockout. It's like, come on, man. Is this real?
20:06
Speaker 2: One of the most amazing... MMA championship knockouts ever.
20:09
Speaker 1: Oh, ever, ever. And then just as his post fight speech,
20:13
look at me now, look at me.
20:17
Speaker 2: And then comes back and wins the rubber match.
20:19
Speaker 1: Yeah.
20:20
Speaker 2: Which was like, it's an interesting thing. Um, how much,
20:24
you know, like, well, first off, like getting knocked out
20:26
cold like that. And you know, better than me, but
20:27
like that does a number to your body. Like that's not,
20:31
you're not logically.
20:32
Speaker 1: Well, psychologically.
20:32
Speaker 2: And also I think physically, um, And then also just
20:36
like the confidence that that gave Leon Edwards going into
20:38
the next fight.
20:39
Speaker 1: Right.
20:39
Speaker 2: Like just changes everything now.
20:42
Speaker 1: Yeah. Kamaru had to be very careful because he knew
20:46
at any– I mean he dodged most of the big
20:49
ones until the big one landed. Yep. So in his
20:52
head in that fight he had a narrative and that
20:55
narrative completely changed with one head kick. So going into
20:57
the next fight, the narrative is now if you fuck up,
21:00
you will be unconscious. You can't get knocked unconscious again.
21:03
And he fought much more cautiously in the second fight.
21:07
Speaker 2: I remember seeing that with– I felt like you could
21:09
watch that when Dustin Poirier fought Conor McGregor the second time. Like,
21:14
you know, McGregor had knocked him out years earlier. And
21:16
you could kind of see, you know, like you could
21:19
see Dustin– I'm not saying like he was nervous or anything.
21:22
He's like one of the greatest fighters ever. But you
21:24
could kind of just see like he gets in there
21:26
and he starts– and he takes a couple shots from Conor.
21:28
And he's still there. And then he lands a couple shots,
21:31
and you could see in that first round his confidence growing.
21:36
You almost got to get that out of your head.
21:38
That it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that guy beat you
21:40
back then, but you're a different guy now.
21:42
Speaker 1: Well, with Conor, it's all about weathering the initial storm.
21:45
The initial storm is crazy. He's so explosive, so fast,
21:49
so accurate. And then another part about that second fight,
21:54
was Dustin setting up those calf kicks, specifically because both
21:58
of those guys fight southpaw. And when you both fight southpaw,
22:02
if you're a southpaw like Dustin, a lot of times
22:04
the calf kick's not really available. Like you have to
22:07
throw it with a switch, or it doesn't have the
22:09
same sort of potential. It's a slightly different potential when
22:13
you're exchanging it in combinations. But with Conor, it was
22:17
wide open because Conor has two things going on. One,
22:19
he's a southpaw also. He had just gotten off the
22:22
Floyd Mayweather fight. He's very boxing heavy. Not just, but
22:25
a while back. But he had really concentrated on striking
22:29
with his hands. His hands were elite. So because of that,
22:32
your stance is a little wider and you're putting a
22:34
little bit more weight on your legs. And he always
22:38
had a wide stance anyway. He had that karate stance.
22:41
The craziest thing about that is the calf kick really
22:43
didn't become a big deal even until Conor was a superstar.
22:49
Like it was after that. That's how recent it is.
22:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very strange that that was almost like a
22:54
thing that didn't get figured out until so recently. And
22:57
then just totally changed everything. At this point, you rarely–
23:00
I'm not saying you never see it, but you pretty
23:01
rarely see guys– kick guys in the thigh anymore.
23:05
Speaker 1: Oh, they still do.
23:05
Speaker 2: No, but I mean like compared to what it used
23:07
to be where it used to be like that was
23:10
what a leg kick was.
23:11
Speaker 1: Yes.
23:11
Speaker 2: For many years in MMA. And now it's– I'd say
23:15
like the majority of leg kicks are targeting the calf.
23:18
Speaker 1: Yeah.
23:18
Speaker 2: Like you'll see almost like a thigh kick almost just
23:20
to switch it up a little bit.
23:21
Speaker 4: Yeah.
23:22
Speaker 2: Because guys got really good at taking those.
23:24
Speaker 1: Yeah. You got really good at being conditioned and we
23:26
also saw a few leg breaks. We saw the Anderson
23:29
Silva one. We saw the Chris Weidman one. There's been
23:32
a few leg breaks from guys just full power, leg
23:36
kicking the thigh, and then someone just lifts up their
23:38
knee a little bit and takes it on the– right
23:40
where the shin bone meets the kneecap is where they
23:43
like to catch it. And, boy, I've seen way too
23:47
many of those. I've seen a bunch in person, but
23:49
because of the internet, I've seen dozens and dozens of
23:52
small promotions where a guy throws that kick wrong really
23:56
hard and the guy checks it. And his fucking foot
24:00
just wraps around the leg. And you see it dangling there.
24:04
You're like, oh, no. I've seen a bunch. I can
24:06
recognize the thing. Like, that injury is so recognizable. Like,
24:11
I've seen it so many times now. I see it.
24:13
I just go, oh, it's going to wrap around the calf.
24:16
It's going to flop. He's going to fall down.
24:18
Speaker 2: I've seen it several times on internet videos and in
24:20
UFC fights. I've only once seen a guy continue to
24:24
talk shit about the other guy after from the ground,
24:27
which is the craziest shit ever, dude. Everyone else I've
24:30
seen is like crying in pain. And Conor's talking about it.
24:33
Your wife's like whatever.
24:34
Speaker 1: Your wife sent me DMs. Jesus Christ. Yeah, he asked
24:37
me to come and sit down with him and do
24:39
a podcast. Yeah. He's an animal. I mean, the dude's
24:43
one of a kind. He's one of a kind. That's
24:45
for sure. He apparently made a post on his Instagram
24:49
saying he's back. And if it's true, that would be awesome.
24:53
That would be awesome. The idea is his suspension for
24:56
whatever he took before is up. So, yay. What was it?
25:02
Speaker 2: Something– I think it was Douglas Murray when he wrote
25:05
that article about me.
25:06
Speaker 1: He said– Mr. Confidence Returns. To save fighting again. Call
25:12
your grandma. Nanny, we did it. Watch and pay me.
25:16
Fuck you, pay me. You fat Irish prick. You don't
25:19
have my money. I put your brain to sleep. Who's that?
25:22
What's that about? Who's he talking about? C is in
25:25
the casinos after the Mac loves yous all. I got
25:29
love for yous. It's an all. It's an honor. It's
25:33
light work. It's easy. For life and eternity. It's McGregor.
25:37
How drunk was he when he wrote this? I do
25:41
this fight game easy peasy. The sound of my shots
25:44
off the head go bing in green dot laser form. Okay. Well,
25:51
I really hope he is actually back. I hope it's true.
25:57
It'd be fun to see him fight a few more times.
25:59
It'd be a lot of fun to see him again.
26:00
Greatest personality the sport's ever known. That's right. There's no
26:02
one even close. I mean, he's the most dynamic personality
26:06
the sport's ever known. And he was.
26:10
Speaker 2: For a time there. just such an unbelievable fighter. I mean,
26:13
he was like just, it was incredible what he was doing.
26:16
Speaker 1: Danny Alvarez fight. Oh yeah. I was there. I was there. Well,
26:20
thanks to you.
26:20
Speaker 2: Uh, it's really good, really good seats.
26:22
Speaker 1: Thanks to you.
26:22
Speaker 2: Uh, but that was, that was one of the best,
26:24
that might be the best fight I've ever been to live.
26:27
Cause that whole card was just stacked. And that is
26:29
the main event was just unbelievable.
26:31
Speaker 1: He was in the matrix. He was in the matrix.
26:34
He was just in the zone. You know, Dana said
26:37
it best. He's like that kid eats pressure. He goes,
26:41
he eats it. Like he thrives on pressure. Pressure that
26:44
makes other people wilt. He like shines under that pressure.
26:47
Speaker 2: And he had an amazing ability even very early in
26:50
his career, which was like kind of, it was really unique. Like,
26:53
cause even like on his first fight ever, if you
26:56
watch his first fight in the UFC against like Brimage,
26:59
I think the guy's name is. And he was a
27:01
relatively unknown at the time, but dude, the place is
27:05
going nuts. He already had made so much kind of
27:08
like street cred for himself that And then the Irish thing,
27:10
like the Irish were really, really into it. But from
27:13
the very first fight, he would always create these moments
27:16
where it's like, dude, this is going to be the
27:18
biggest spectacle that you, my opponent, has ever been in
27:21
in their career. Like I'm going to get you mad
27:23
with shit talking. I'm going to get the fans so
27:25
excited because he's completely comfortable there. Like I'm not sure
27:29
if you're really comfortable here. And even with Aldo, who
27:33
had been the entire division. He literally, when they started
27:37
the division, they started him as champion. He didn't even
27:39
win it. He came in because.
27:40
Speaker 1: They absolved the WEC.
27:42
Speaker 2: So he was the entire featherweight division, had just dominated everyone.
27:46
And he even created such a moment that like, Like,
27:49
Aldo was like... He was the boogeyman.
27:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude.
27:53
Speaker 2: He was incredible.
27:54
Speaker 1: He was incredible. He was one of the greatest featherweights
27:56
of all time.
27:56
Speaker 2: But he got him to the point where he was, like,
27:58
so furious that he was like, I'm going to take
28:01
this fucking guy's head off. And then Connor's just, like, relaxed.
28:05
He didn't care about any of the shit talking. He
28:07
was just like, yeah, we're having fun. Let's play.
28:09
Speaker 1: He lost his composure. Yeah, and he looked very overwhelmed
28:13
by the moment. Oh, and by the way... Everyone from
28:17
Ireland came to Vegas for that fight. It was the
28:20
nuttiest thing I've ever seen in my fucking life. The
28:23
entire Mandalay Bay was overcome with Irish people. I mean,
28:28
overcome like you couldn't move. There was nothing but Irish
28:32
people everywhere, and they were singing. They were all singing
28:36
together in the halls of this gigantic casino, packed, like
28:41
they're waiting in line for something. And they were just
28:44
there partying for Conor.
28:46
Speaker 2: I remember, I think it was when, I want to
28:48
say it was when.
28:48
Speaker 1: Like, look at all these people. Yeah, it was nuts, dude. Bro,
28:50
this is nuts, man. They were all Irish people. Like,
28:53
you got to realize nobody had a following like him. Like,
28:59
this is actually Irish people for the Floyd Mayweather fight.
29:02
They were still ride or die with him even for
29:04
that fight.
29:05
Speaker 2: I think it was when he fought Dennis Seaver, I
29:07
want to say.
29:07
Speaker 1: I think that was in Boston.
29:09
Speaker 2: So I went with Louis J. Gomez, my good friend,
29:13
hilarious comedian. And me and him went to some Irish bar. Like,
29:18
we just happened to be in Midtown Manhattan. And we
29:20
were like, oh, the fights are coming on. Oh, they're
29:21
playing it at this bar. It was just like an
29:23
Irish pub. And, dude, I mean, it wasn't even that
29:26
big of a bar. They must have, I mean, it
29:28
was shoulder to shoulder Irish people losing their fucking minds.
29:34
Like it was the most fun environment to watch a
29:36
fight in because they're just I mean they're just like
29:39
but all that singing and chanting it seemed like everyone
29:42
had an Irish flag with them like it was this
29:45
in a little bar it was this.
29:47
Speaker 1: That's nuts man look at that that's Mandalay Bay wow
29:52
look at this oh that's MGM well they were everywhere
29:56
they were probably at every fucking casino there was This
29:59
is crazy. Imagine if you're from Northern Ireland. And you
30:13
still remember the troubles. You make your way to the hotel.
30:17
Just came to Vegas for a little gambling. You don't
30:19
follow MMA. You have no fucking idea. What's this all about?
30:23
I have picked the wrong fucking week for me vacation.
30:29
Speaker 2: By the way, I was going to say that Douglas
30:33
Murray's big knock on me when he wrote his op-ed
30:35
in the New York Post was he goes, he goes,
30:36
you know, Dave goes on Joe Rogan and he talks
30:38
about foreign policy like he's an expert, but I bet
30:40
he wouldn't go in there and talk MMA with him
30:42
because then Joe would recognize he's not an expert. And
30:44
I was like, We do that all the time.
30:46
Speaker 1: We do that every show. We do that all the time.
30:48
That's so stupid.
30:48
Speaker 2: I was like, almost every time we hang out, we
30:51
end up talking MMA. And like, it probably is fair that, yeah,
30:55
there'll be moments where you'll correct me if I get
30:57
something wrong.
30:58
Speaker 1: So what?
30:58
Speaker 2: But if I get it right, you don't go, you're
31:00
not an expert.
31:01
Speaker 1: That's so dumb. Imagine we don't talk about MMA because
31:04
you're not an expert. That's so silly. I don't know.
31:06
Speaker 2: Well, I watch a lot of it. I have some thoughts.
31:08
Speaker 1: Why is he so silly? I love Douglas. I really do.
31:11
I've enjoyed talking to him. I think he's a brilliant man.
31:13
But I was very disappointed with– You've never been? I'm
31:18
very disappointed with that sort of strategy that you shouldn't
31:21
be talking about these things that are factual. But even
31:23
more disappointing with that notion, the notion that like you
31:25
would never talk about MMA with me. Do you think
31:28
we would– first of all, I don't think I argue
31:32
about MMA with anybody. I don't think anybody, if someone
31:36
has a point about MMA, I don't, I never argue.
31:40
Speaker 2: I might say, you've corrected me when I've gotten things wrong.
31:42
Speaker 1: Yeah. Or I might say, I just like somebody, some
31:45
people think that a certain thing is going to happen.
31:47
And I'm like, Ooh, I don't see that. I disagree.
31:50
That happens. Sure. Yeah.
31:53
Speaker 2: But well, also like it's whatever point you're making is
31:57
either a good point or it's not a good point.
31:59
If it's like an objective claim, you know what I mean?
32:02
So like, if I, if I say like a, You know,
32:04
when Volkanovski fought Lopez, his jab was crucial. Okay, that's
32:09
either correct or it's incorrect. Like, whether I'm an expert
32:12
or not, I'm not an expert on fighting.
32:14
Speaker 1: Geez, you can watch the fight and that would be correct. Yes, right.
32:17
You can see it. I saw he hit a home run.
32:20
You're right. You're not an expert. That's crazy.
32:23
Speaker 2: Well, you know, it was a weird thing during that
32:25
show was– because it's a weird, I don't know, there's
32:28
like weird incentives built into like all of this.
32:32
Speaker 1: Incentives are the right word because there's a lot of
32:34
people that are saying things and you go, why are
32:36
you saying that? Yeah.
32:38
Speaker 2: Well, also from my perspective, I was a little disappointed
32:41
with it because I kind of thought, I was like, oh,
32:42
this could be like a really cool thing. And it
32:45
had been literally, which I don't think I'm saying anything
32:47
that is like betraying confidence here, but The only thing
32:51
that was ever said to me, I remember you called
32:53
me and you were like, what do you think about
32:54
doing this? And I think I said yes before you
32:56
could finish answering.
32:57
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely. Let's do that.
32:59
Speaker 2: And then you told me that he had said, hey,
33:05
he really doesn't want this to devolve into like a
33:07
food fight. He wants to make this like a good
33:09
faith thing.
33:10
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh. Awesome.
33:12
Speaker 2: And now I feel like he like Trump Whitcoff negotiated
33:14
me like he said he was because then he came
33:17
in and the whole thing was about me. He didn't
33:18
want to talk about the issues at all.
33:20
Speaker 1: He just won.
33:20
Speaker 2: And so in a weird way, I was like, well,
33:22
this sucks because I thought we could have had a
33:24
really cool thing. But then there was this other part
33:26
of me that was like, I mean, he's really just
33:28
handing this to me.
33:29
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
33:30
Speaker 2: Like he kind of just like gave me the win.
33:33
In a thing that was a big show with a
33:37
lot of people I knew were going to watch it.
33:38
I mean, obviously, every time I do your show, a
33:40
lot of people are going to watch it. But that
33:41
was a particularly big one.
33:43
Speaker 1: Yeah.
33:43
Speaker 2: And so I was kind of almost like for the
33:45
first 45 minutes of it, I was kind of sitting
33:47
there like, oh, I can't believe he just he went
33:50
this route.
33:51
Speaker 1: Well, if you look at it objectively, there weren't a
33:55
lot of options. Right.
33:56
Speaker 4: Yeah.
33:57
Speaker 1: It's very difficult to argue the side. that what they're
34:01
doing– like we were talking about Gaza in particular. Like
34:05
the– arguing that that's not horrific. If you're a human
34:10
being and you recognize that there are human beings that
34:13
are subjected to that government, just like you're subjected to ICE.
34:18
You're subjected to Homeland Security. You're subjected to the cops.
34:22
If you're a civilian, You have to listen to these orders.
34:25
So if you're living in Gaza and you're a child
34:28
or you're a woman and you live– you're not Hamas, OK?
34:32
And the idea that you're responsible for October 7th, even
34:35
if you're one of the people that cheered in the street, boy,
34:39
don't you think you kind of have to cheer in
34:41
the street if everybody else is cheering in the street?
34:43
If you're fucking in terror for your life and you
34:46
have to like keep your safety intact, like you got
34:50
to kind of go along with whatever everybody else is doing.
34:52
I'm not saying that's good, but when you look at
34:56
how that place is leveled, I mean, the most recent
35:01
videos that I've seen were still like a few months old.
35:04
So I don't know if it stopped. Did they stop bombing?
35:06
I don't know what's going on.
35:07
Speaker 2: No, they've slowed down a bit, but they haven't stopped.
35:09
Speaker 1: Okay. There was nothing left, man. And that represents people's homes.
35:14
That represents schools. That represents hospitals. There's no way you
35:19
can argue that. That's not horrific. So he was stuck.
35:23
That's right.
35:23
Speaker 2: That's right. It's kind of indefensible. And so instead you
35:26
pivot to arguing against this guy rather than against the issue. Well,
35:30
I think that, you know, it's in I can't remember
35:33
if this was in the letter to America or this
35:36
was in his declaration of war against America. But Osama
35:39
bin Laden literally said that. civilians are fair targets because
35:46
you guys have elections and you vote for these politicians
35:50
and they're the ones who conduct these wars that slaughter
35:53
innocent Muslims. So just saying, it's the logic of Osama
35:56
bin Laden to say that civilians are responsible for what...
36:00
And in Gaza... Like they don't even really have a government.
36:03
Hamas is not a government. They don't have regular elections.
36:05
They had one election back in 05 or 06 or
36:09
whatever it was, which Hamas did not even win majorities of.
36:13
They won on pluralities.
36:14
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
36:15
Speaker 2: And so the idea that you're holding these people responsible
36:19
for Hamas just doesn't make any sense. And just on
36:22
a very basic human level, you just kind of go,
36:25
and I'm not like an egalitarian. I'm not saying all
36:27
people are equal or all cultures are equal or anything
36:30
like that. But on a very basic human level, like
36:33
those are real people too. And when a mother is
36:36
like pulling her six-year-old dead body out of the rubble,
36:40
that's the same exact experience as if your wife was
36:44
pulling your six-year-old out of there. Like that same thing
36:46
is happening to her. And once you even just admit that,
36:50
it does just change the calculation. It changes the calculation
36:54
to be like, okay, look, the onus is on you.
36:56
to demonstrate that this is absolutely necessary. Like there is
37:01
no other option than to do it this way. And
37:04
that makes defending most wars very difficult. Not all of them,
37:08
you know, but most wars are very difficult to defend
37:11
if you just run it through that filter of like,
37:14
is there any other option other than this? Have you
37:16
exhausted everything else? And then, of course, in the case
37:19
with Israel and Palestine, you go, oh, you never even
37:21
tried to just give them their independence? You've never tried
37:24
to just let them out from this occupation and see
37:26
if maybe that will improve things?
37:30
Speaker 1: It is kind of crazy that the world didn't at
37:33
one point in time stand up and say, there's a
37:36
simple solution here. Like these people should have a state.
37:39
Like why do you get to control them but they're
37:42
not Israeli? They're kind of a country now. But not
37:47
really because they're attached to you. Yeah. Why don't you
37:50
guys go buy another country and give it to them
37:53
and let them have a country? Or they don't like
37:57
being attached on the same small patch of dirt to
37:59
people that have a totally different ideology, I guess.
38:02
Speaker 2: Well, that's right. And that– look, I mean it's just.
38:05
Speaker 1: But we are.
38:05
Speaker 2: Yeah.
38:06
Speaker 1: We have Canadians right there.
38:08
Speaker 2: Yes, but Canadians do get citizenship in their own country.
38:12
Speaker 1: They get citizenship here, too. Boy, that's the last thing
38:15
ICE is looking for is fucking Canadians. Oh, yeah. Your
38:19
visa's expired? Don't worry about it, buddy. Get on the plane.
38:21
Speaker 2: They'd probably have a much easier time. Like, Canadians would go,
38:24
all right, guess I got to go.
38:25
Speaker 1: Well, yeah. Also, they can just ditch the accent and
38:29
pretend they're Americans and everybody will buy it. As long
38:31
as they don't say about wrong. Yeah. You know, they
38:34
could just say, ah, sorry, I don't have my license
38:36
on me. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, like, okay, buddy, where
38:39
are you from? I live in Iowa. Okay, sounds right.
38:42
That does check out. Get out of here.
38:43
Speaker 4: All right.
38:44
Speaker 2: Shit, that does check out.
38:45
Speaker 1: Do you see the shit that's going on in the airports?
38:47
Are they using ice now at the airports? Because, first
38:51
of all, how many ice agents are there? Aren't they busy?
38:55
How do you have time to put them in all
38:56
the airports? How many fucking airports are there?
38:57
Speaker 2: It's in the low tens of thousands.
38:59
Speaker 1: There's not that many of them. Right. So, like, how
39:01
many airports are there? There's a lot of airports. Okay,
39:03
so you're putting ice in the airports?
39:05
Speaker 4: Yes.
39:06
Speaker 1: Where are you getting all these ice guys? Are you
39:08
hiring new ice guys to take the airport jobs? It
39:12
takes seven weeks to train them. So did they have
39:14
like a surplus of like an ice factory where they're
39:18
churning them out and putting.
39:19
Speaker 2: Them out there? So I didn't see any of them.
39:21
I flew out here the other day, and I didn't
39:23
see any of them. But then I did see people
39:25
saying that they were at the airport I flew out
39:27
from later that day.
39:28
Speaker 1: Up to 150. That's not a lot. Immigration and Customs
39:32
Enforcement officers were deployed at airports across the United States
39:35
on Monday. So, of course, you know, you get on
39:39
social media. Somebody sends you something. Somebody sent me something.
39:42
I'm not sure if it was true. But it was like,
39:44
look at the difference between the lines at the airport
39:47
before ICE was there. and after ICE was there, and
39:50
tell me that only 10 million illegal aliens got in.
39:53
They're like, what is the real, we were talking about
39:59
this last night, like, what's the real number? What is
40:03
the real number of illegals in the United States? We
40:06
don't know. You were saying something about Ann Coulter?
40:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, she had, and this was from a while ago,
40:11
so this was, well, she had in her book, Adios America,
40:16
She had– I believe it was from Bear Stearns.
40:19
Speaker 1: I could be wrong.
40:19
Speaker 2: Double-check me on that. It was one of the big
40:21
finance companies that they had put a thing where like
40:24
they put it between like $ 30 and $ 50 million.
40:27
Speaker 1: Total in the country. Jeez. And 50 is wild.
40:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is before Joe Biden and them. Now,
40:33
I don't know, maybe they got those numbers wrong.
40:35
Speaker 1: This is before Biden. So what year was this book?
40:37
Speaker 2: I want to say 2014, 2015, something like that.
40:40
Speaker 1: Oh my God, that's 10 years ago.
40:43
Speaker 5: Yeah.
40:44
Speaker 2: A lot of them have come in since then.
40:45
Speaker 1: Well, at least 10 million, they believe, came in through
40:48
the Biden administration. So over four years.
40:51
Speaker 2: Well, I remember the numbers being like during the Biden
40:53
administration where they'd be like, it was something like last
40:56
month there were 700,000 border apprehensions. And you're like, well, geez,
41:01
then how many were just flooding? And you'd see those
41:03
big caravans coming in and stuff. I mean, look, it's
41:06
a huge, that still is a huge scandal. And as
41:10
much as I have really been really criticizing Trump and
41:14
the Trump administration since last summer, you know, he's done
41:20
a good job in securing the border. That is the
41:21
one thing that, like, you kind of got to give him.
41:23
And he got that secured, like, right away.
41:25
Speaker 1: But it is... Even if you think that it should
41:29
be open and those people should be able to travel freely.
41:32
They should. There's no one's illegal. On stolen land. That
41:36
kind of shit. You know how much sex trafficking happened
41:39
during that time of children? Yeah. You know how many
41:41
children were trafficked that way? You know how many children
41:43
were dragged across the border and sold to psychopaths? Oh, yeah.
41:48
Speaker 2: Oh, it's horrible. I mean, I saw– Oh, there's Ann
41:50
Coulter with at least 15.
41:52
Speaker 1: At least 50 million illegals in the country today. See
41:56
my book, Adios America, for the analysis from Pulitzer Prize
41:59
winning reporters and numbers crunchers from Bear Stearns. I was right.
42:02
It was Bear Stearns. This is 2022, this post. Wow.
42:05
The book is even older, though.
42:07
Speaker 2: The book is from before. I want to say 2015,
42:11
but it's around then.
42:12
Speaker 1: That is crazy. That's crazy.
42:15
Speaker 2: Supposedly, this is the book that got Donald Trump- On
42:21
the immigration issue, at least I've heard I've heard Ann
42:24
Coulter say that before.
42:25
Speaker 1: Maybe that's right.
42:26
Speaker 2: Maybe that's not right. But but I mean, look, it's
42:29
like it's also a particularly it's a it's a profound
42:34
like act of of treachery for a government to do
42:39
that to its own benefit. country, like to allow that
42:43
and really facilitate that to happen against the will of
42:47
the domestic population. Like if you were to I've tried
42:50
to look this up before. I was trying to figure
42:51
this out because I did a big immigration debate last
42:53
year or maybe the year before. And I was trying
42:56
you can't even get numbers on what the polling on
42:59
open borders is because no one even asked the question
43:01
in polling because it's like they ask like. Do you
43:04
think immigration policy should be less restrictive or more restrictive?
43:07
Because the number of people who support open– it's like
43:10
maybe 1 percent of the country supports that. It's as
43:13
unified an issue as anyone could have. No, you can't
43:16
just have the border wide open. And so to do
43:19
that to the American people against the– like you drastically
43:22
change the country in a way that is not really–
43:27
It's not easy to just undo. I mean, as we've seen, right,
43:30
Donald Trump backed off of mass deportations almost immediately because
43:34
big business doesn't want it. And then because look like
43:38
the level of violence that you'd need to just physically
43:41
deport 50 million people is going to be something that
43:44
the American people just aren't going to put up with.
43:46
I mean, you even see in Minnesota and rightfully so.
43:49
I completely understand that.
43:51
Speaker 1: But you see like.
43:52
Speaker 2: You know, I saw one thing. I saw that Trump
43:54
had asked the ICE agents who were going to the
43:56
airports to not wear their masks. And I was like,
43:59
is that even a that's even an option? Why would
44:02
they be masked in the airport?
44:04
Speaker 1: Because they're ICE agents. They get doxxed.
44:06
Speaker 2: Well, that's their concern. And look, I understand that.
44:08
Speaker 1: It's a real concern.
44:09
Speaker 2: I understand that concern. But at the same time, you know,
44:12
there is a balancing act there. And, you know, a
44:14
lot of people like a lot of right wingers will say, hey, look.
44:17
If you're, you know, if you came here illegally, then
44:19
that's a crime. You're here illegally. That's the law. And hey,
44:22
I get that argument. But also the supreme law of
44:25
the land is the Constitution of the United States of America.
44:28
And I've seen a ton of videos where there were
44:30
masked ICE agents not even identifying themselves, going up to people,
44:35
telling them that you have to answer my questions. You
44:37
don't have an option to walk away, which is like not.
44:40
Speaker 1: True at all. My take on it is that you
44:42
can't accept people that are masked, that don't have any paperwork,
44:46
that don't have a warrant.
44:47
Speaker 4: Yeah.
44:48
Speaker 1: On the streets in militarized situations because if they're using
44:52
it for this, which you agree to, that opens up
44:56
the door for them to use it because you won't
44:58
take your vaccine or because you did this or did
45:01
that or whatever the fuck it is. If a different
45:03
person gets in power, maybe they're going to use it
45:05
for something you don't support. It's just not something you're
45:08
supposed to accept. That's right. You don't want to accept
45:10
that president. Here's something that someone told me that is–
45:13
this is a very credible source that I can't reveal
45:15
what the source is. But they told me that there
45:18
are people in this country and not just a few
45:21
but many, many that are affiliated with terrorist organizations, directly affiliated,
45:28
but they've applied for asylum. And because they've applied for asylum,
45:34
you can't deport them until they go through the entire process.
45:38
Speaker 2: That is wild.
45:39
Speaker 1: That is wild. Yeah. So there's people that are known
45:42
at least terrorist sympathizers. They're in direct communication with terrorist networks.
45:48
They've done things with terrorist networks and they've applied for asylum.
45:53
So you have to go through this long ass process
45:56
through the legal system. And it's up to a judge
46:00
whether or not this person who may or may not
46:03
be a part of a fucking sleeper cell gets to
46:06
stay in America. Yeah. Suicidal empathy. That's what Gad Saad
46:11
calls it. You know, I think he's right.
46:13
Speaker 2: I think he's got a fair point there with suicidal
46:15
empathy in terms of the idea of like that we
46:19
that we cannot say on some level that it's like, no, look,
46:24
we have a desire to preserve our society and we
46:28
want to do what's bad. We don't have to out
46:30
of some feeling of guilt, turn our country into something
46:33
worse than what it otherwise would be. So I think
46:35
he's got a point there. I think– and look, I'm
46:37
not a big fan of Gad. He literally just– him
46:41
and like Sam Harris and a few others, they literally
46:44
just trash me all the time and refuse to engage
46:46
on a single thing I've said.
46:48
Speaker 1: So like it will just be– Gad doesn't engage with you?
46:50
Speaker 2: He calls me Wikipedia Dave on Twitter. And it's a– well,
46:54
look– I like the guy.
46:56
Speaker 1: But I have a different relationship with him than you do. Well,
46:58
that's true.
46:59
Speaker 2: And I'm a big critic of Israel and he's a
47:00
Mossad agent.
47:01
Speaker 1: So there is that.
47:02
Speaker 2: That is part of– You think he is? He's admitted
47:04
that he worked for Mossad.
47:06
Speaker 1: In the past? Yes. Yeah.
47:07
Speaker 2: I guess he would say he's not currently.
47:09
Speaker 3: He retired.
47:09
Speaker 1: Like I used to work for Newport Creamery. I don't
47:12
represent them anymore.
47:13
Speaker 2: I think it's a little bit different with the Mossad thing.
47:16
But I also think that the big component that I
47:19
think all of those guys are missing is that we
47:24
also create more enemies with our foreign policy. And that's
47:28
not to say that like. They always kind of caricature
47:33
my position on this. Like I'm not saying Islam is
47:35
all peaceful and there are no problems in the Islamic
47:38
world or anything like that. In fact, I don't think
47:40
any religion has truly always been peaceful. But for guys
47:46
like– say like Sam Harris. who these kind of like
47:51
pretend intellectuals who have spent, he spent his entire career
47:55
talking about how violent and irrational the Muslims are and
47:59
how you can't even draw a cartoon of Muhammad or
48:02
Muslims want to do violent stuff. And like, Hey, fair enough.
48:05
That's bullshit. And we should all say like, if you
48:07
want to be over here in the West, our values
48:09
are free speech and you cannot kill people for cartoons.
48:13
But then like none of them ever also go, Hey,
48:18
You know, murdering an Ayatollah might be dangerous during Ramadan.
48:24
Speaker 1: Yeah.
48:25
Speaker 2: Like that is, you know, that is not just a
48:27
political figure to Shiite Muslims. So at the same time,
48:32
it's like, OK, I'm fine with saying, OK, you don't
48:34
want to have suicidal empathy. My buddy Keith Knight, who's brilliant,
48:40
works over at the Libertarian Institute. He had, I forget
48:43
what he said, but he said something like, okay, I
48:45
don't want to have suicidal empathy. Let's also not have
48:47
homicidal empathy, you know? And so like, maybe it also
48:51
is like, as we were tying into that whole conversation with, no,
48:54
I'm okay, thanks. With the whole thing about the kids
48:58
and women in Gaza, it's like, it's also the fact
49:02
that if you just view slaughtering Muslim children in the
49:07
Middle East and in Northern Africa as like just an
49:10
acceptable political price. You know, that's just collateral damage. And unfortunately,
49:16
that happens when we pursue this policy. You're going to
49:19
deal with more and more of that. And the combination
49:22
of both, Joe, like the combination of having open borders,
49:26
having all these people get in and continuing the war
49:28
on terrorism and slaughtering people in these numbers must be
49:32
the most insane combination ever. The idea that you'd be like,
49:35
we're going to just... make an entire generation of Muslims
49:40
hate us because so many of them have seen what
49:43
we've done to their countries. And also, we'll welcome all
49:45
of them in with no checks and we can't get
49:46
rid of them when they come here. That is quite
49:48
a combination.
49:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all nuts. The Sam Harris thing, I should
49:55
clarify this because he's apparently talked about me again recently
49:57
on Bill Maher. We didn't not talk because it was
50:02
his idea. It was me. I, he wanted to do
50:06
a podcast with me. He wanted to do a coat,
50:09
like a COVID, you know, wrap up, like to, you know,
50:14
go over everything that happened, all the mistakes that were
50:17
made and his position, my position. Cause that's where we
50:20
kind of like separate. It was, he was very pro vaccine.
50:25
I said, I won't do that until you talk to
50:28
Brett Weinstein, that you need to talk to Brett, like Brett,
50:33
you disparaged him publicly. I think you said things that
50:37
weren't correct. You called him a conspiracy theorist and you
50:40
said you wouldn't platform him because it's dangerous. I don't
50:42
believe that's true. I believe the problem is that Sam
50:47
was incorrect about both the effectiveness and the safety of
50:51
the COVID vaccines. Brett was correct. And Brett didn't insult Sam.
50:57
Sam insulted Brett. I mean, Brett said things about Sam since,
50:59
but it was, it was Sam. And, I said, look,
51:03
you got to talk to him first. You can't just
51:05
talk to me, you know, especially because he's an actual
51:08
evolutionary biologist. Like he understands these things. He knows what
51:13
he's talking about. He's had multiple conversations with high-level vaccinologists
51:18
and all these different people that worked on the mRNA vaccines.
51:23
Like he was correct. We all know that now. We
51:26
know that all the things that he was talking about,
51:29
whether it's masking doesn't work, social distancing– Lockdowns. Lockdowns. Didn't
51:34
work at all. All the above. All the above. He
51:37
didn't want to talk to Brett. And I said, that
51:39
doesn't make sense to me. Like, you talk to everybody.
51:41
You have debates with Muslims on stage. Yeah, that's right.
51:45
That doesn't make any sense. Like, why wouldn't you talk
51:46
to Brett? I don't think he wanted to talk to
51:49
Brett because I don't– I think he didn't want to
51:51
talk to Brett because Brett's right. Yeah. And I think
51:54
it's indefensible. No, I completely agree. I mean, you know,
51:57
I had a– By the way, I don't hate Sam.
51:59
You know, he could say all the crazy shit he wants.
52:01
He also said, like, I don't think you should interview Gaddafi.
52:04
Guess what? I would. If Gaddafi was alive, 100% I
52:08
would interview Gaddafi. Gaddafi, did you ever hear Russell Crowe
52:11
talk about Gaddafi? I don't think so. He did a
52:13
clip that went viral that was on this show where
52:15
he talked about why they wanted to get rid of Gaddafi. Right. And, like, well,
52:20
they talked about how evil Gaddafi was and how he
52:23
subjugated his people. Can you see if you can find that?
52:26
Russell Crowe on Gaddafi. He wanted to create. A United
52:32
States of Africa.
52:33
Speaker 3: Yeah.
52:34
Speaker 1: He wanted to get them on the gold standard. He
52:36
wanted to get them off the U.S. dollar. He had
52:38
some very dangerous ideas.
52:41
Speaker 2: He also supported Palestinian resistance.
52:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was it. There's no sound thing in there? Oh,
52:50
there it is. Here it is.
52:55
Speaker 6: We are taught, for example, to regard Gaddafi in a
52:58
certain way. But if you look into what happened in
53:03
his country while he was the leader, you look into
53:05
the fact that every person is given a house at
53:09
a certain age. You look at the fact that everybody's
53:13
education and health care is free. You look at if
53:16
somebody showed a particular talent for something, they're required further
53:20
education overseas.
53:23
Speaker 1: All of the costs of that were paid for by
53:24
the government.
53:25
Speaker 6: Now, these are all things put in place by the
53:28
same country's leader that we're told is evil and corrupt.
53:35
Speaker 1: Yeah. It doesn't quite balance. Well, there's also U.S. government interference.
53:43
That is one that we definitely monkeyed with. I mean,
53:48
he ran afoul of the United States government. We were taught,
53:52
for example. There was the famous clip with Hillary. I
53:56
showed a friend of mine the other day that he
53:57
hadn't seen it and he couldn't believe it was real. Well,
53:59
she was on this show and she gets unconfirmed information
54:04
first that they got Gaddafi and then she gets confirmed
54:06
that he's dead. And she goes, we came, we saw,
54:10
he died. She was so excited about it. But laughing.
54:15
And then that led to Libya, at least for a while,
54:19
becoming a failed state.
54:20
Speaker 2: Oh, it still is. It still is this whole time, man.
54:22
It's been a disaster.
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55:22
Speaker 2: And you know, the thing is that they called that
55:24
Hillary's war. She was the Secretary of State at the
55:27
time under Barack Obama, but she's really the one who
55:30
championed that. And I believe Obama wrote in his book,
55:33
that he was 50-50 and that Hillary really pushed him
55:36
to that. And he said his big regret was that
55:38
he didn't think about what came next after Gaddafi. Somehow
55:41
we haven't learned that lesson yet. Like after Iraq, you
55:44
never thought of that.
55:46
Speaker 1: Listen, but thank God Trump's figured it out.
55:48
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Trump's figured it out. We'll go in this
55:51
drastic new direction of getting the seventh war that they wanted.
55:55
Speaker 1: Don't be a pussy, Dave. Jesus Christ. Did you see
55:58
that one, I don't know what military expert was on
56:00
television who said something about we need, I'm a fan
56:03
of boots on the ground, like Rome. Like, hey, fucker,
56:08
Rome didn't have nuclear weapons and drones. Rome didn't have
56:11
drones that hunt you. What are you talking about, boots
56:14
on the ground? Should we fight with swords? Should we
56:16
get everybody to fight with swords? Is that what you're saying?
56:18
The fuck are you saying?
56:19
Speaker 2: Well, also, like, what.
56:22
What even is the plan with boots on the ground? Like,
56:24
what are you talking about here? You're going to take
56:27
an island. It goes, OK, well, then you're going to
56:29
be a target. You're going to be target practice as
56:31
long as the Iranian regime is still standing. And if
56:33
you're talking about militarily occupying the country like we did
56:37
with Iraq or Afghanistan or something like that. This is
56:39
a huge country with 92 million people. How many soldiers
56:43
do you think you need to occupy that country? At
56:46
least half a million? And probably you can't do it
56:49
with that? So what are you talking about here? And
56:51
so you're saying, are we going to start a draft
56:53
for the least popular war going in in American history?
56:57
Because I don't think that's happening.
56:59
Speaker 1: This is maybe slightly more popular than Vietnam.
57:04
Speaker 2: Going in, it's less. I'm sure Vietnam by the end
57:07
was very, very unpopular.
57:09
Speaker 1: Well, Vietnam going in didn't make any sense, did it?
57:12
I guess the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Most people in
57:16
America were like, why are we doing this? What's going on?
57:19
You're drafting people to go to Vietnam? We're fighting communism
57:23
in Vietnam? Yeah. What?
57:25
Speaker 2: Well, they called it Vietnam syndrome that the American people had,
57:30
which is that we didn't want to fight a war
57:32
again after that. From their perspective, that's a syndrome. And
57:37
it's really something. They think– by the way, Ben Shapiro
57:41
used this same line called– he said Trump finally broke
57:44
Iraq war syndrome because they think– is after you lie
57:53
the American people into a war and slaughter a million people.
57:56
The illness isn't that. You might look at that as
57:59
the bad part, but the bad part is that these
58:02
annoying Americans have this tendency to not want to do
58:05
that again after that. But he claims Trump has broken
58:09
Iraq War Syndrome. Of course, there's really no evidence with
58:13
support of the American people that that has changed at all. And,
58:17
you know, the George H.W.
58:19
Speaker 1: Bush.
58:20
Speaker 2: was said to have defeated Vietnam War Syndrome in Panama
58:25
and in Iraq because they were relatively easy, bloodless on
58:30
the American side or very, very limited.
58:35
Speaker 1: Injuries and deaths.
58:37
Speaker 2: And they weren't like quagmires that went on forever or whatever. But,
58:42
of course, after the Persian Gulf War in 92, we
58:46
went on to be bombing Iraq for– Ever since essentially.
58:52
I mean for 30 straight years after that. We were
58:55
still at war with that country. I think for a
58:56
million people being dead.
58:58
Speaker 1: What is public support? Let's put that into our sponsor perplexity.
59:02
What is current public support for the Iran war in America?
59:08
First of all, how will they know? No. one has
59:10
asked me. You know what I'm saying? That's a fair point.
59:12
That's what I always say about polls. When was the
59:15
last time you answered a poll? When was the last
59:17
time anybody called you up and said, Dave– first of all,
59:19
when was the last time you ever picked up the
59:20
phone if you didn't know who was calling? And then
59:22
when you do answer, when was the last time you
59:24
said yes to a poll?
59:25
Speaker 2: I don't– Even remember ever getting called.
59:27
Speaker 1: It has to be the dumbest of dumb people that
59:30
answer those polls. So then you got to realize out
59:32
of those stupid fucking idiots, even how many of them
59:37
think the war is a good idea?
59:40
Speaker 2: It's even unpopular amongst them.
59:42
Speaker 1: I mean, what does it say here? Most recent national
59:45
polls show Americans overall oppose the current war with Iran
59:49
and think U.S. military action has gone too far. A
59:52
Quinnipiac poll finds 54 percent. What is Quinnipiac? Quinnipiac poll
59:58
finds 54% of U.S. voters oppose U.S. military action against
1:00:03
Iran and 39% support it. I wonder how many of
1:00:06
those 39% are Jewish.
1:00:10
Speaker 2: Well, not too much. We don't have the numbers.
1:00:12
Speaker 1: A poll reports about six– right. What is the number
1:00:14
of Jewish people in America? Two percent? Something like that?
1:00:19
Six in ten adults say U.S. military action against Iran
1:00:22
has gone too far. Only about a quarter say it's
1:00:25
been about right. Twenty-five percent. First of all, whenever you're
1:00:30
talking about these kind of things, it's like, again, who
1:00:34
are we talking about? Who was asked? Finds Republicans largely
1:00:39
support the military action. Around 86 percent support. Whoa. Really?
1:00:45
Because I talk to a lot of Republicans that think
1:00:48
it's a terrible idea. While large majorities of Democrats, around
1:00:52
92 percent, and independents, about 64 percent, oppose it. 92 percent.
1:00:57
Who are the 8 percent of Democrats that are like,
1:00:59
let's fucking go? You think maybe they're Jews? They work
1:01:03
for CNN. You know, whatever. CNN thinks it's a good idea? No.
1:01:07
Speaker 2: Dude, CNN is running cover for Donald Trump during this time.
1:01:12
Speaker 1: For real? Oh, yeah. No way.
1:01:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, they put up a poll the other day. They
1:01:15
had a graphic that said 100 percent of MAGA. Supports
1:01:19
the war in Iran. It's like– CNN said that? After
1:01:23
all these.
1:01:23
Speaker 3: Years– I wouldn't say he liked it or something like that.
1:01:26
Speaker 1: But hold on a second. CNN likes me. Is that
1:01:28
running cover or is that making them look bad because
1:01:31
most Americans don't support the war and most Democrats, 92 percent,
1:01:36
don't support the war? So if that's the case, wouldn't
1:01:38
that just make it look like these MAGA people are
1:01:40
a fucking problem? I guess. Oh, my god. MAGA GOP
1:01:45
view of Trump. Can I hear how he says it?
1:01:47
Or would it be a problem? Okay. That seems bonkers.
1:01:54
It seems bonkers. Approve 100%. How many people did you ask? Two.
1:01:58
Two guys with MAGA hats on in the party.
1:02:00
Speaker 2: If you notice the way they say this, right? So
1:02:02
they don't just say GOP voters. They say MAGA GOP voters.
1:02:06
And so what they're doing here is that they're filtering
1:02:09
who they consider to be MAGA and who they consider
1:02:12
to be MAGA are the people who still say they
1:02:14
support Donald Trump. But like 100% of the people who
1:02:18
don't support this war stopped supporting Donald Trump over it.
1:02:21
Speaker 1: But look at this little thing on the bottom. They
1:02:23
don't show you. Sixty six percent. Thirty one percent split
1:02:27
among non MAGA. Right. And all that non MAGA Republicans.
1:02:32
Is that what you're saying?
1:02:33
Speaker 2: No, I think that's non MAGA Americans, I believe.
1:02:36
Speaker 1: Like the whole MAGA thing. It's like how did we're
1:02:39
so fractioned as it is. Like this whole idea of
1:02:42
right versus left as it is. And now you've got
1:02:44
a MAGA section of the right.
1:02:46
Speaker 2: It's all just ridiculous, dude. But it's a way to
1:02:49
describe it as anything other than what it is, which
1:02:51
is the most unpopular war in American history going into it.
1:02:53
And for good reason. Look, dude, he didn't even bother
1:02:56
to like sell us on a propaganda campaign about it.
1:02:58
It was like the laziest, like just lie, just lie
1:03:03
us into it.
1:03:04
Speaker 1: Let's put on a fucking firm tinfoil hat right now.
1:03:08
Let's get a double layer Reynolds wrap, fucking crease the edges,
1:03:12
fold it down. Why would he want to do this?
1:03:18
Why would he want to– look, I am not denying
1:03:23
that the regime of Iran is a giant problem. I
1:03:26
am certainly not denying that if I was Israel, I
1:03:28
would not want them there. They hate you. They're trying
1:03:31
to get a nuclear weapon. They're right there. I get
1:03:33
the Israel position. I totally understand how they're so– just
1:03:39
vehemently in defense of their homeland. Like they're surrounded by
1:03:43
people that hate them. They're the one Jewish country. Everyone
1:03:45
else is, is a Muslim. They don't want to caliphate.
1:03:48
They don't want to kill them. It's been going on forever.
1:03:50
They think it's in God's word that they have it.
1:03:53
It's a lot of craziness. I get it. Why now? Like,
1:04:02
why now? Like, what does that make any sense?
1:04:05
Speaker 2: Well, um, Trump himself has said, which literally this would
1:04:10
be like considered an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory if anyone else
1:04:14
had said it. But Donald Trump has openly talked about
1:04:16
many times how the Adelson's give them all this money
1:04:20
and they come by every day and all they have
1:04:23
is another demand on behalf of Israel. Donald Trump also
1:04:27
very early in his political career got in trouble with
1:04:31
the Israel lobby and then immediately pivoted to blaming– to
1:04:36
winning their favor back over by saying he would tear
1:04:38
up the JCPOA, the Iran deal that Obama got us into.
1:04:42
And it looks to me– there's speculation aside. Who knows
1:04:47
exactly what control they have over the guy? But it
1:04:50
looks to me that after Venezuela– And when there were
1:04:54
these big street protests and riots against the regime and
1:04:58
around there, that they convinced Trump. And this is what
1:05:01
Joe Kent, his director of counterterrorism, has said, too, that
1:05:05
they essentially convinced him that this would be the time
1:05:10
you could do it swiftly, surgically remove the regime and
1:05:13
the people would rise up and overthrow it. And this
1:05:17
is what Donald Trump said when he launched this war.
1:05:19
He said, this is a regime change and I'm calling
1:05:21
on the great people of Iran to rise up. And
1:05:23
they did. They rose up by at least the hundreds
1:05:27
of thousands. They were out in Tehran in defense of
1:05:30
the regime chanting death to America. Because it turns out
1:05:34
when you kill 165 little girls, that doesn't make a
1:05:38
country go, we love you. Thank you for that.
1:05:42
Speaker 1: But before the bombing, there were people in the streets
1:05:45
that were protesting. And people were killed because of that
1:05:48
a lot. That's the other thing is that that regime
1:05:51
is like they clamp down and they do it with
1:05:54
public figures. They killed a very prominent wrestler from Iran.
1:05:58
Two of them. They killed one a few years back.
1:06:01
The UFC tried to step in and somehow or other
1:06:04
stop it. But he was also one that was accused
1:06:06
of protesting.
1:06:07
Speaker 2: Well, listen, I don't know about this most recent one.
1:06:10
I'm not saying this is true at all. I don't
1:06:12
trust any governments, but he was they claimed he killed
1:06:15
a few cops. That's what the Iranian regime said he
1:06:18
was being hung for.
1:06:19
Speaker 1: Now, I don't know. Yeah, the wrestler.
1:06:22
Speaker 2: He was convicted of that, whatever that means in a
1:06:26
in a mullah run. You know, so I'm not saying
1:06:29
that's right at all. But I will say this, right?
1:06:32
The Donald Trump, when he when he launched this war
1:06:35
and there's been a whole lot of just false claims
1:06:37
that have been made, but he said specifically that they
1:06:40
killed thirty two thousand protesters. There has not been a
1:06:47
shred of evidence presented to back up this claim. Now,
1:06:50
I'm not saying it's not true. I'm not putting it
1:06:53
past this government that they would do that. And they've
1:06:56
acknowledged that a lot of people have died. I think
1:06:58
they I think the last I had seen was that
1:07:01
I know they were saying the government of Iran was
1:07:03
before the Ayatollah was killed. They were saying it was
1:07:06
something like 3000 people had died. And then the CIA
1:07:10
said- But.
1:07:11
Speaker 1: When you say died, does it mean they killed the protesters?
1:07:13
Speaker 2: Well, that's unclear. That's not what they are claiming. But
1:07:16
then the CIA, at least there was a piece in
1:07:19
the Wall Street Journal where they had said, and this
1:07:21
was like a week and a half into it, that
1:07:22
they estimated like 6,500 or something like that. But this
1:07:26
is a huge question, right? And it's not clear at all. Like,
1:07:29
were they lining people up and just executing them for
1:07:32
the crime of protesting? They hung the wrestler. But I'm
1:07:35
saying the people who have been killed here.
1:07:38
Speaker 1: Iran protest death toll could top 30,000, according to local
1:07:44
health officials. And this is from Time magazine. As many
1:07:47
as 30,000 people could have been killed in the streets
1:07:49
of Iran on January 8th and 9th alone. Two senior
1:07:53
officials of the country's Ministry of Health told Time, indicating
1:07:57
a dramatic surge in the death toll. So many people
1:07:59
were slaughtered by Iranian security services that Thursday and Friday
1:08:03
it overwhelmed the state's capacity to dispose of the dead.
1:08:07
Stocks of body bags were exhausted, the official said, and
1:08:10
18-wheel semi-trailers replaced ambulances.
1:08:15
Speaker 2: Now, listen, all I'm saying here, man, is that you've
1:08:18
got to be– I've just seen this movie play out
1:08:20
a lot of times. You've got to be really careful
1:08:21
about these accusations that are made in the run-up to
1:08:24
a war. They're basically saying we have a source who
1:08:26
told us this.
1:08:27
Speaker 1: What year was this? I mean, excuse me, what date
1:08:29
was this? January 25th.
1:08:31
Speaker 2: So the protest started in late December and then in January.
1:08:35
Speaker 1: Time was unable to independently verify these figures. That's right.
1:08:39
Speaker 2: Listen, the claim being made here, right, is that, look,
1:08:43
in this case, they said in two days, in two days, 30,000
1:08:46
people were killed. If that is true, that is up
1:08:49
there with one of the biggest massacres in human history.
1:08:53
The biggest massacres during World War II were like around that.
1:08:57
Speaker 1: It says, as of Saturday, a U.S.-based human rights activist
1:09:00
news agency had confirmed 5,459 deaths and is investigating 17,000 more. Yes.
1:09:08
So that's at least close. So we're in the neighborhood.
1:09:11
We're in the 20s. Just if what they're investigating turns
1:09:15
out to be accurate.
1:09:16
Speaker 2: If that's if that's the case. But we're talking also here, Joe,
1:09:18
about like any defunded U.S. based NGOs who are really
1:09:23
around hawks, you know, point. And so and I'm just saying, like, look,
1:09:26
the the claim the claim here is that. You know,
1:09:30
I saw a bunch of the Zionists online when this
1:09:32
was first coming out back in January. They were like, oh,
1:09:35
my God, they've already killed half as many people as
1:09:38
died in Gaza in just a couple days.
1:09:40
Speaker 1: And you're like, right.
1:09:41
Speaker 2: That's a pretty that's a hell of a claim.
1:09:43
Speaker 1: Right.
1:09:44
Speaker 2: I mean, like if you just from following wars all
1:09:46
these years, if you started carpet bombing Tehran, Vietnam style
1:09:51
carpet bombing Tehran after two days. that's the type of
1:09:54
death toll you'd be looking at.
1:09:56
Speaker 1: Well, the thing is, they don't have internet access to
1:09:58
the rest of the world.
1:09:59
Speaker 2: Well, they shut down the internet during that period. But
1:10:01
there were pictures that came out. All I'm saying is
1:10:03
that if you had numbers like that, you would expect
1:10:06
there to be some evidence that you could point to.
1:10:09
And there's like one picture where they've pointed to like
1:10:11
a couple dozen body bags and been like, see, look
1:10:14
at this. But look, maybe it's true, maybe it's not.
1:10:17
I'm very skeptical of these claims when they're made right
1:10:19
before we launch a war. But I think the other
1:10:22
point is that At least according– and there has been
1:10:26
some evidence of this, right? There were police stations that
1:10:29
were burned. There were mosques that were attacked. These were
1:10:32
not just peaceful protests. I'm not saying they don't have
1:10:35
a right to violently rise up and overthrow their government, whatever.
1:10:37
But all the hawks in the West were saying these
1:10:41
people are trying to overthrow their government.
1:10:43
Speaker 1: Not only that. In the past, our agencies, our intelligence
1:10:48
agencies have engaged in nefarious practices where we have– conscripted
1:10:54
certain people to go and light things on fire and
1:10:57
blow things up and create these events to accelerate.
1:11:02
Speaker 2: Front page of the Jerusalem Post, they were bragging that
1:11:04
there was Mossad within the protests. So now look, I
1:11:08
don't know. But also the thing is this, right? If
1:11:11
you are trying to overthrow a government, a government will
1:11:15
kill you for doing that. And that's true about every government,
1:11:18
including our own.
1:11:19
Speaker 1: Including our own.
1:11:20
Speaker 2: If armed protesters went to try to overthrow Barack Obama's government,
1:11:25
he would kill those people if.
1:11:26
Speaker 1: They were actually a threat to do that. How about
1:11:27
Ashley Babbitt was murdered on January 6th?
1:11:30
Speaker 2: And every single left-winger in the country went, well, that's okay.
1:11:33
It was an insurrection. And by the way, every single
1:11:36
right-winger in this country, when this Pretty guy got killed,
1:11:39
were like, well, he was interfering.
1:11:41
Speaker 1: Oh, I saw it.
1:11:42
Speaker 2: But by the way, the Pretty thing was the most
1:11:44
textbook example of a bad shooting. There's just no defending it.
1:11:48
They had disarmed the guy.
1:11:49
Speaker 1: He's down.
1:11:50
Speaker 2: There's six of them.
1:11:51
Speaker 1: They panic.
1:11:51
Speaker 2: They put six bullets in him.
1:11:52
Speaker 1: Do you know what happened, though? Do you know the
1:11:54
whole story of the gun?
1:11:56
Speaker 2: The gun being removed?
1:11:58
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you know the whole story about the gun? No. Okay.
1:12:00
The gun is a Sig P320. Right. A Sig P320
1:12:04
is notorious for accidental discharges. Right. There is a video
1:12:08
of the cop removing the gun, walking off. Yes, I
1:12:11
saw that.
1:12:11
Speaker 2: And the gun goes off. Is that his gun for sure?
1:12:15
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:12:15
Speaker 2: Because I thought that hadn't been determined whether or not.
1:12:18
I heard people speculating about that.
1:12:19
Speaker 1: I've watched the video multiple times and I've watched other
1:12:21
people's analysis of it. Obviously, I'm no expert, but I
1:12:24
do know something about guns. And that gun in particular,
1:12:28
it's been demonstrated online that it will go off. There's
1:12:31
a cop inside of a precinct. He bends over, not
1:12:35
touching his gun, gun in the holster, and it goes off.
1:12:39
There's a video of a guy on a range. And
1:12:42
the gun just goes off. And he goes, whose fucking
1:12:44
gun was that? And the range master goes, is that
1:12:48
a Sig? And he goes, yeah. He goes, get that
1:12:51
fucking gun off of my range. Wow. Because it's a P320.
1:12:55
I should be real clear. Sig makes a bunch of
1:12:57
guns that are awesome. Like the P365 is like one
1:13:01
of the best carry guns in the world. There's a
1:13:02
lot of guns they make that don't have this issue.
1:13:04
But that particular gun that Preddy had with one in
1:13:07
the chamber is fucking knuckleheads walking around with one in
1:13:09
the chamber. Absolutely.
1:13:11
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, the only point I'm making is that
1:13:15
It's clearly it was a fuck up. I'm not saying
1:13:17
like they wanted to execute the guy. I'm just saying
1:13:19
like they had the gun taken from them. They didn't
1:13:21
communicate that to each other.
1:13:23
Speaker 1: They freaked out.
1:13:24
Speaker 2: But literally all it took was seeing one video 11
1:13:28
days earlier where he kicked the back of a cop car.
1:13:30
Speaker 1: Right.
1:13:30
Speaker 2: And for every right winger to go, yeah, whatever, dude,
1:13:33
got what you deserve. So all my point is about this,
1:13:35
looking at this in the Iranian regime. It's just not clear. Like,
1:13:41
what are you actually accusing them of? Are you saying
1:13:43
that somebody was trying to overthrow the government and the
1:13:46
government mowed them down? Are you saying that they lined
1:13:49
up protesters and shot them all in the back of
1:13:51
the head simply for voicing their opinion? Like, none of
1:13:54
this is made clear. But when the war drums are beating,
1:13:57
no one even cares to ask these questions. It's just like, yeah,
1:14:00
they killed their own people. And then if you notice
1:14:02
with this war, much like with Venezuela and almost like
1:14:04
with all of them, They just keep giving you like
1:14:07
they throw like 15 justifications at it, you know, and
1:14:11
you're like, which one is the reason we're fighting this?
1:14:13
Because I saw all of them like to play the
1:14:16
humanitarian card and go, we're doing this, you know, for
1:14:18
these oppressed people. We want them to rise up. They've
1:14:20
been living under this brutal regime. And you're like, OK,
1:14:23
two things like number one. That is simply just not
1:14:26
how U.S. foreign policy works. We don't fight wars on
1:14:30
humanitarian grounds. You know what I mean? Like we're partners
1:14:33
with some of the most brutal authoritarians in the world.
1:14:36
And in the case of like Israel, we've been funding
1:14:39
their destruction of Gaza for the last two and a
1:14:41
half years. So, like, that's not really what's motivating this here.
1:14:46
And then, number two, Donald Trump, even just the other day,
1:14:49
said he'll be partners with the new Ayatollah and run
1:14:53
the Strait of Hormuz together.
1:14:54
Speaker 1: Did he say that?
1:14:56
Speaker 6: Yeah.
1:14:56
Speaker 2: He's backed off of regime change.
1:14:59
Speaker 1: Are they even talking to him? Is someone talking to him? Like,
1:15:03
who is he talking to? Do they know who they're
1:15:06
talking to? Because it's not like they're meeting in person.
1:15:08
Donald Trump said– Some guys on the phone, I am
1:15:12
free to negotiate.
1:15:13
Speaker 2: Dude, he said– Donald Trump himself said the other day
1:15:18
that he goes– we're negotiating. Negotiations are going great. And
1:15:22
they go, who are you negotiating with? And he goes,
1:15:24
a person we believe to be in charge. And then
1:15:27
they said, so is this the new supreme leader?
1:15:29
Speaker 1: And he said, no.
1:15:30
Speaker 2: No, no one's heard from that guy. We don't know
1:15:32
where he is.
1:15:32
Speaker 1: It's some hacker in his basement in Belarus. It's not.
1:15:37
He's talking with an Iranian accent and he's got them convinced. Well,
1:15:42
it's just. I have the authority to negotiate. Let's be partners.
1:15:48
Let's wire one million Bitcoin to this address.
1:15:53
Speaker 2: Well, everything I'm seeing publicly reported today is that Iran
1:15:58
is like, no. We're not in these negotiations. We've made
1:16:02
our terms clear. And their terms, what they're asking for
1:16:04
is something that Donald Trump is not going to be
1:16:06
able to give them.
1:16:07
Speaker 1: What's that?
1:16:10
Speaker 2: Their demands were that we stop attacking immediately, like that
1:16:16
part they might get, that we pay them restitution for
1:16:20
all the damage so far, essentially that we leave the region.
1:16:25
I mean, they had a few other things there that
1:16:27
were just like.
1:16:28
Speaker 1: And they want them to open up a Terry Black's
1:16:30
in Tehran.
1:16:34
Speaker 2: This one was really important to us.
1:16:35
Speaker 1: If we could just get one. One Terry Black's barbecue.
1:16:38
We don't have a good barbecue here. It doesn't seem
1:16:43
like– if he's not really negotiating with this guy, if
1:16:46
it's like– if that's not true and he's just like
1:16:48
putting this out there in the public as like a
1:16:51
negotiation ploy, what a clusterfuck because you're dealing with people
1:16:56
that don't mind dying. They believe– I mean these are
1:17:01
very religious people. They're fanatical. They believe they're going to
1:17:04
go to heaven. They believe they're martyrs and they're fighting
1:17:07
for Allah. This is the just and holy war.
1:17:11
Speaker 2: Well, they've also been– And they've been attacked.
1:17:13
Speaker 1: Well, that's right.
1:17:14
Speaker 2: And they've been preparing for this for a long time.
1:17:18
People make a lot out of the chants that the
1:17:22
Iranians– they chant death to America.
1:17:24
Speaker 1: What do you got there, Jimmy?
1:17:25
Speaker 3: Sorry.
1:17:25
Speaker 1: It's– And who's in control of it? Will Iran still
1:17:30
be able to control the flow of oil? Be jointly controlled.
1:17:35
Speaker 5: By whom?
1:17:37
Speaker 1: Maybe me. Maybe me.
1:17:39
Speaker 4: Me and the Ayatollah, whoever the Ayatollah is, whoever the
1:17:42
next Ayatollah. Look, and there'll also be a form of
1:17:46
a very serious form of a regime change.
1:17:50
Speaker 1: Now, in all fairness.
1:17:52
Speaker 4: Everybody's been killed from the regime. There's automatically a regime change.
1:17:57
But we're dealing with some people that I find to
1:18:00
be very.
1:18:00
Speaker 1: Reasonable, very solid. The people within know who they are.
1:18:05
They're very respected.
1:18:07
Speaker 4: And maybe one of them will be exactly what we're
1:18:11
looking for. Look at Venezuela, how well that's working out.
1:18:15
Speaker 1: I mean, dude, this is such a fucking mess. This
1:18:18
is such a mess, dude. I mean, this is just
1:18:20
too ridiculous, dude.
1:18:21
Speaker 2: And the thing is that a lot of people– I've
1:18:25
spent a long time at this point being against this
1:18:28
war because this war has been telegraphed since the Bush administration.
1:18:32
Speaker 1: Wanted to do this shit.
1:18:34
Speaker 2: And at least for like 15 years, I've been publicly
1:18:39
opposing this war. And one of the reasons why so
1:18:42
many of us oppose this and it's a shitty way
1:18:45
to be vindicated but is that– look, Iran is just
1:18:49
not like any of the other opponents in the global
1:18:51
war on terrorism. It's a it's a different beast entirely.
1:18:55
And you've seen this already only three weeks in. We
1:18:57
never dealt with any of this with any of the
1:18:59
other countries.
1:19:00
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
1:19:01
Speaker 2: We had what the Pentagon calls escalation dominance in all
1:19:04
of those other wars, which is all essentially like it's
1:19:07
just like meaning like if you do this, we do this.
1:19:10
If you do that, like we're prepared for everything. It's
1:19:12
kind of like escalation dominance is a lot like you're
1:19:15
like in jujitsu where you see really high level guys
1:19:17
who basically put you in a position where you can
1:19:19
make one of two choices in either way. You know, like, OK,
1:19:22
you can you can give me your back and I'll
1:19:24
choke you or you can push off me and I'll
1:19:25
arm bar you. And, you know, like whatever option you have,
1:19:28
I'm going to get you. We don't have that with Iran.
1:19:31
And Pentagon's been open about this since at least 2007.
1:19:33
And the fact is that, as we're already seeing, they
1:19:37
can target ships in the Strait of Hormuz. They can
1:19:40
target our assets, our bases, our embassies in the region.
1:19:43
They can target our allies there. And this is a
1:19:46
big problem. And so like it seems like Donald Trump
1:19:49
got into this thinking it would be like Venezuela. It
1:19:52
would be quick and bloodless and easy and he could
1:19:54
claim victory. Now that it's not gone that way, it
1:19:59
seems like he's kind of scrambling for what the off-ramp
1:20:04
is here. Now, at least I give Donald Trump, as
1:20:07
angry as I am with him– Like at least it
1:20:11
is true that he's looking for an off-ramp it seems like.
1:20:13
And he did this with the 12-day war, right? Like
1:20:15
he started the war. He saw an off-ramp and he
1:20:19
took it. The problem here really is that this war
1:20:23
changed the calculation from the Iranian perspective. And that much
1:20:27
is clear so far. After 9-11, all the countries in
1:20:32
the Middle East and North Africa, all the ones– essentially
1:20:35
they all waved the white flag, all of them. Saddam
1:20:38
Hussein welcomed UN inspectors in. He was trying to do
1:20:41
anything he could to not meet the fate that he
1:20:43
ultimately met. Gaddafi denuclearized, got rid of chemical weapons. Bashar
1:20:47
al-Assad got rid of all his chemical weapons. They were
1:20:49
all just like, we don't want it with you. And
1:20:53
Iran was very much the same way. They got into
1:20:56
the JCPOA. They allowed an inspections regime in to come
1:20:59
look at their nuclear facilities, all of that. And even
1:21:02
up to the 12-day war, when we dropped the bunker buster,
1:21:06
as in Israel bombed a whole bunch of regime targets,
1:21:09
they still, in their response, called ahead, made sure there'd
1:21:13
be no U.S. troops there. They hit the side of
1:21:16
a little base there. And then they kind of went
1:21:18
like they gave Trump an off-ramp because they didn't want it.
1:21:22
They don't want to die like Muammar Gaddafi. They don't
1:21:25
want to have their country destroyed. So for self-preservation reasons,
1:21:29
they showed restraint. The calculation this time, clearly already from
1:21:33
the Iranians, was that we can't do that again. We
1:21:37
have to give you a bloody nose and a black eye.
1:21:40
We have to make this cost as much as possible
1:21:42
for you. Otherwise, you guys will just be back here
1:21:45
in another five months doing it again. And they're probably
1:21:49
right about that.
1:21:50
Speaker 1: They're probably right.
1:21:51
Speaker 2: And so now we're in this situation where we're already
1:21:55
in a quagmire. It's already like over a dozen Americans
1:21:58
have died. I think a couple hundred wounded at this point.
1:22:02
Israel isn't given real numbers on what's going on there.
1:22:05
But there's some pretty substantial damage and definitely some Israelis
1:22:08
have died. And I'm sure thousands of Iranians have died
1:22:12
at this point. It's cost– I mean Pete Higgs has
1:22:15
just asked for $ 200 billion. I don't know if it'll
1:22:18
get up to cost him that much, but this thing
1:22:20
is certainly already in the tens of billions. If you
1:22:22
consider munition, military movements, and then just the damage to
1:22:26
embassies and bases and stuff like that. I mean, this
1:22:30
thing is already a disaster. And so now it's not
1:22:33
like Venezuela, where Donald Trump could just stop and declare
1:22:36
victory and even say, like, look how great it's working out.
1:22:39
Is Venezuela really working out that great?
1:22:41
Speaker 1: I don't know.
1:22:42
Speaker 2: We took one guy away. The regime's still in place.
1:22:45
The people haven't been liberated, but Whatever, he can claim that.
1:22:49
This now, the problem here is that, okay, number one,
1:22:53
Donald Trump's not really in a situation where if he
1:22:55
just quit right now, how is he really going to say,
1:22:58
look how wonderful this is? It's like, I don't know, dude,
1:23:00
this cost a lot already. And it doesn't seem like
1:23:03
there's any clear, like, what did we get out of this?
1:23:05
Speaker 1: Well, the only way it would work is if there
1:23:07
was some sort of a deal with whoever the fuck
1:23:10
is going to be the new guy in charge. And
1:23:12
they did come to some sort of an agreement. And
1:23:15
they did give them some compensation for all the shit
1:23:18
we blew up. Yes. So they'll just print some more
1:23:21
money for that. Sure. And inflation will go up.
1:23:23
Speaker 2: But look, here's the thing is that it's not just
1:23:25
Donald Trump. There's two other participants in this war, two
1:23:30
other entities in this war. There's Iran and there's Israel. OK, now,
1:23:35
is Iran going to accept that?
1:23:38
Speaker 1: Maybe.
1:23:38
Speaker 2: But look, just like the 12 day war. Look at
1:23:40
the position you're in now. We're relying on the mullahs.
1:23:44
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
1:23:44
Speaker 2: Like it's that that is not an ideal situation.
1:23:47
Speaker 1: To be in.
1:23:47
Speaker 2: And then the other factor is that there's Israel who
1:23:50
also gets a say in this for some reason, because
1:23:53
we allow them to. And Netanyahu just the other day
1:23:56
was very clear about this. This is a regime change.
1:23:59
And he even said it will require ground forces. And
1:24:03
he said he's not sure who those ground forces will be.
1:24:06
And so now this happened. If you do you remember
1:24:09
the moment during the 12 day war when it was
1:24:11
the closest Trump ever came to like flipping out on Israel?
1:24:15
And he said they don't know what the fuck they're doing.
1:24:17
It was what he said. Israel and Iran don't know
1:24:19
what the fuck they're doing because Donald Trump. So after
1:24:23
he drops the bunker busters, he goes, that's it.
1:24:28
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
1:24:28
Speaker 2: We're taking the off ramp. And then he said, I
1:24:31
want to work out a ceasefire now. And then after
1:24:33
he said that, Israel just started lighting up regime targets,
1:24:38
just bombing the crap out of them. And they weren't
1:24:40
bombing nuclear facilities. They were just bombing like government buildings.
1:24:44
And they've been doing a bunch of that in this
1:24:45
war as well, bombing local police departments, things like that,
1:24:48
just creating chaos. Because what they want is peace. what
1:24:52
they've been getting in the rest of the war on terrorism. They're, they,
1:24:55
they are quite happy with a Libya model or a
1:24:58
Syria model.
1:24:59
Speaker 1: They don't want anyone that's organized as a threat to Israel.
1:25:03
They don't.
1:25:03
Speaker 2: It's, it's all about around support for Hezbollah is that
1:25:08
they want Southern Lebanon, which they just cats, their defense
1:25:11
minister just announced that they're going to occupy.
1:25:13
Speaker 1: That's crazy, right? They just announced they're going to be
1:25:15
occupying another country.
1:25:16
Speaker 2: That's what it's about, man. And, and look, I mean,
1:25:19
it's not, Again, this isn't like a conspiracy theory. The
1:25:22
guys all tell you this in their own words. Benjamin
1:25:25
Netanyahu was asked point blank a few months back what
1:25:27
he thought of the Greater Israel Project. And he said,
1:25:30
it's very near and dear to my heart. Like, this
1:25:32
is the point of denying the Palestinians a state for
1:25:35
all these years. You can't let the Palestinians have a
1:25:37
state because then how are you going to take that
1:25:39
all over someday? That's all supposed to be part of Israel.
1:25:41
And the U.S. ambassador, the U.S. ambassador, not the Israeli ambassador,
1:25:47
the U.S. ambassador to Israel is on record saying that
1:25:51
God promised Iraq to Benjamin Netanyahu, that God promised Lebanon
1:25:58
and Saudi Arabia and the West Bank and.
1:26:01
Speaker 1: parts of.
1:26:01
Speaker 2: Syria, and all of this is greater Israel. By the way,
1:26:06
Sam Harris, where are you out on that? Where are
1:26:09
the new atheists when you could finally use them for something? Hey,
1:26:13
that's pretty crazy. Is that how we do politics? We
1:26:17
work on this ridiculous religious superstition that somehow when God
1:26:22
said Israel in Genesis, he was referring to the state
1:26:26
that was created that they named after that passage. This
1:26:30
would literally be on the level, Joe, is if I
1:26:32
named my son Jesus Christ and then I told you
1:26:34
you have to worship my son. Look, it's right there
1:26:37
in your Bible.
1:26:37
Speaker 1: Exactly. No, you named it after that, dude. That doesn't count.
1:26:42
That's crazy. And they took the spot where it was. Yeah.
1:26:44
I mean, like. They took over and they did it
1:26:46
in a horrific way. Like the napka. Yeah. You listen
1:26:50
to some of those soldiers, the translation of some of
1:26:52
those soldiers talking about what they did and even laughing
1:26:54
about what they did.
1:26:55
Speaker 2: Some of them even smiling.
1:26:56
Speaker 1: In 1948?
1:26:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it wasn't in 1848.
1:26:59
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
1:27:00
Speaker 2: These guys were alive. Maybe not so many of them now,
1:27:03
but like 20, 30 years ago, you could put a
1:27:05
video camera in front of one of these guys and
1:27:06
ask them to tell their story.
1:27:08
Speaker 1: Right. It was like 78 years ago. It wasn't that
1:27:10
long ago. Yeah, that's right. That's right.
1:27:12
Speaker 2: And so, you know, look, I mean, the idea here
1:27:15
that America, after... Just 25 years of catastrophic failures, launching
1:27:24
wars of choice, wars of aggression, lying the American people
1:27:28
into it, just slaughtering millions of people and like bankrupting
1:27:31
this country and really severely degrading the country with these wars.
1:27:35
The idea that we would jump into another war of
1:27:38
choice for Israel is just too– like this is too crazy, man.
1:27:46
And especially when it's the administration– that really ran on
1:27:52
and promised that we want to get out of this,
1:27:56
out of this game of fighting stupid wars in the
1:27:58
Middle East.
1:27:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was what we were all supporting. That was
1:28:01
the one thing that he was saying that was so
1:28:03
promising to so many people that were independent, that were
1:28:05
on the fence. Like, this guy wants no wars. All right.
1:28:09
He wants closing the border, which I think is a
1:28:11
great idea. He wants no wars. That enough. Let's go.
1:28:14
Speaker 2: Well, especially considering the fact that Well, well, like even
1:28:19
if there are some things about Donald Trump that maybe
1:28:21
you don't like, but the other guys are saying we
1:28:24
want to keep fighting forever wars. And this guy is
1:28:27
saying we should stop doing that. That's enough to go. Well,
1:28:30
then he's better than you on net. And don't get
1:28:33
me wrong. I mean, I I endorsed Donald Trump in 24.
1:28:37
Speaker 1: Um, you know, people give me shit for this.
1:28:39
Speaker 2: Some people like that. Some people give me shit for it. Um,
1:28:41
but I, I do, I kind of view it like this, like,
1:28:44
and I really, I will say maybe I'm a little
1:28:46
biased here cause I love you, but I don't think
1:28:48
I'm being biased. I really think you played a, an
1:28:51
enormous role in, in kind of like standing up to
1:28:56
the progressive democratic establishment and their narrative over the last
1:29:03
decade or so. And It's really hard to kind of
1:29:06
overstate how crazy they were, how much of a threat
1:29:09
to this country they were. And for anybody who wants
1:29:12
to give shit to anyone who voted for Donald Trump,
1:29:14
it's like, hey, man, the alternative was the party who
1:29:19
bragged about, first off, insane woke shit, like poisoning the
1:29:23
minds of children in a really grotesque and abusive way.
1:29:27
They gave us open borders, flooding the country with people.
1:29:31
They gave us all types of COVID tyranny. based on pseudoscience.
1:29:35
They gave us the most reckless foreign policy in American history,
1:29:39
which was this proxy war on Russia's border. And they
1:29:42
were pretending the president wasn't senile when he clearly was.
1:29:46
Then they, in the fourth quarter, threw up a cackling
1:29:48
retard who was not democratically picked in any process. And so, sorry. Like,
1:29:54
it does make sense that a lot of people went, okay,
1:29:57
we're going to go back with this other guy. Also,
1:30:00
there was an interesting dynamic happening in 24. where, okay,
1:30:04
this wasn't, you know, Donald Trump, they had actually tried
1:30:07
to throw him in jail, maybe even tried to murder him.
1:30:10
We never really got any answers on that one. He
1:30:13
now had Bobby Kennedy with him. He now had Tulsi
1:30:15
Gabbard with him. He now had, oh, you know what
1:30:17
I mean? Even JD Vance, like a lot of these
1:30:19
people who were supposedly much more non-interventionist, there was reason
1:30:23
to hope that maybe it wouldn't end up here. But anyway,
1:30:26
I guess my thing is that You played such a
1:30:29
huge role in this, and I, to a lesser extent,
1:30:31
played a role in standing up against a lot of
1:30:33
that progressive insanity over the last 10 years. And I
1:30:36
just feel like after 24, you know, this coalition came
1:30:40
together where Donald Trump, for the first time ever, wins
1:30:42
the popular vote, wins every single swing state, and really
1:30:45
more remarkably– One, the youth and the culture. Like Donald
1:30:49
Trump went from being like the cultural pariah to being
1:30:53
the guy like John Jones is doing the dance.
1:30:56
Speaker 1: And it was just it was.
1:30:57
Speaker 2: And that whole coalition has been destroyed over this war.
1:31:01
And now he's going to hand the country right back
1:31:04
over to these Democrats who we've been fighting so hard.
1:31:06
All for what? All for a war that Netanyahu wanted
1:31:10
against a country that, dude, by the way, the justification
1:31:12
for the 12 day war was bullshit. They weren't trying
1:31:15
to make nuclear weapons.
1:31:16
Speaker 1: They were trying to negotiate. At least they got out
1:31:17
of that unscathed relatively. Well, that's right.
1:31:19
Speaker 2: But then– and I want to– he said some nice
1:31:22
things about me when he was on here the other
1:31:24
day with you. So I will say some nice things
1:31:26
about Konstantin Kassin who I– despite our disagreements, I really
1:31:29
like that guy a lot. But he is– I could
1:31:32
be wrong. I could be missing someone. He's the only
1:31:34
guy I've seen who supported the 12-day war but is
1:31:39
really skeptical about this. And I've seen so many people.
1:31:43
It's unbelievable, dude. Like they just– so like the 12-day
1:31:46
war comes. For the first 48 hours of it, they're like, dude,
1:31:49
Israel is doing this on its own. All they want
1:31:52
is for you to stay out of it. Then like
1:31:54
the third day, they're like, all right, they do need
1:31:57
some help shooting down the missiles that are coming back
1:31:59
toward them. But whatever. This is just defensive.
1:32:01
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
1:32:02
Speaker 2: Like you don't have to get involved. Then it's like
1:32:03
the next day, like, all right, we don't have bunker busters.
1:32:05
So we do need you to drop the bunker busters.
1:32:07
But then their whole– like defense of the 12 day
1:32:11
war was like, look, no Americans died. It didn't cost
1:32:13
us a lot. It didn't turn into this disaster. And
1:32:16
now we're at the, okay, we'll find all of that happened,
1:32:19
but it's still a good thing. Constantine was the one
1:32:22
guy I saw who was like, no, I supported that one,
1:32:25
but I am not getting on board with this one.
1:32:28
And I give him a lot of credit for that.
1:32:29
I give him a lot of credit for that.
1:32:30
Speaker 1: I like that guy a lot. I like him a lot.
1:32:32
I like Francis a lot too. I do too. Their
1:32:34
show Trigonometry is one of, The best shows. Agree with
1:32:38
them or not agree with them. They're always reasonable. They're
1:32:41
never ideologically driven. They have opinions that you may or
1:32:44
may not agree with, but they're real clear about their
1:32:46
opinions and why they believe what they believe.
1:32:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
1:32:48
Speaker 1: And I will say– And they're great guys. Yeah, genuinely
1:32:51
good dudes. Great guys.
1:32:52
Speaker 2: I really liked– I get in a lot of like
1:32:56
the shit show– like arguments I find myself in them
1:32:59
I probably should be better than them and just not
1:33:01
engage but I'm not and I'm petty what do you
1:33:03
mean by shit show like where it just becomes like
1:33:05
an insult thing or you know I debated Alex Barron
1:33:09
it's kind of embarrassing in hindsight but like I don't
1:33:11
know it gets me really angry when a guy's calling
1:33:13
me a holocaust denier or something like that I think
1:33:15
that's crazy.
1:33:15
Speaker 1: What he was saying was kind of silly the way
1:33:18
he was saying it was silly and he was just
1:33:20
trying to play gotcha with you and then you called
1:33:21
him a faggot.
1:33:22
Speaker 2: Yeah it's not my finest moment you can.
1:33:25
Speaker 1: Tell he was really shaken by that Well, it's just...
1:33:27
I don't think you expected that.
1:33:28
Speaker 2: I kind of have a thing where, like, look, I'm
1:33:30
really into this shit, and I nerd out on it,
1:33:31
and I'm obsessed with all of this for whatever reason.
1:33:34
It's just, like, my calling in life. But I'm also
1:33:36
a stand-up comic at heart, you know? And so, like,
1:33:39
as soon as someone goes, like, oh, I want to
1:33:41
be vicious, you're like, oh, you want to be vicious? Because, like,
1:33:43
I'm pretty good at being vicious, so, like, I could
1:33:46
do that. And you're probably not used to hearing this
1:33:48
type of vicious shit that, like, comics say to each other.
1:33:50
Speaker 1: Right. But.
1:33:52
Speaker 2: one of the things that I really appreciated about Francis
1:33:54
and Constantine was when I went to do their show,
1:33:57
it was just like, it was genuinely a good faith conversation.
1:34:01
And they weren't trying, they weren't trying to like win
1:34:04
the point or, or get a clip that they could go,
1:34:06
we destroyed Dave. And then once they do that, I'm like, okay,
1:34:09
well then I'm not trying to do that either, man. Like,
1:34:11
let's talk about this shit. That's, that's always what I'd
1:34:13
rather do. Um, but the thing that's, I guess the
1:34:18
thing that's really interesting about this moment is that because, uh,
1:34:22
the kind of corporate media propaganda apparatus has been completely destroyed.
1:34:26
And because the internet and social media and podcasts are
1:34:30
where people go now for, for, you know, conversations and
1:34:33
debates and news and all this stuff, they're kind of like,
1:34:37
they're like, they're running without a propaganda apparatus, you know,
1:34:41
like Israel, just Israel in the last two and a
1:34:45
half years is down like 50 points in the polls,
1:34:49
like in terms of American approval and, It's just been–
1:34:52
it's a drastic change like I've never seen on any
1:34:55
issue over the last few years.
1:34:57
Speaker 1: In our lifetimes where it's been an issue that we
1:34:59
are dealing with the consequences of the relationship. That's right.
1:35:02
There's never been a time in the past where people
1:35:04
were completely aware of, oh, there's no other reason why
1:35:08
we'd be going into Iran. Like most people don't think–
1:35:12
That's 100 percent. It wasn't for Israel asking us to,
1:35:15
Netanyahu's– Consistent visits to the White House.
1:35:18
Speaker 2: Oh, you can't even pretend otherwise.
1:35:21
Speaker 1: I mean, people can. But people do. Yes.
1:35:23
Speaker 2: Well, they try to.
1:35:24
Speaker 1: Coleman Hughes just got in a debate with Glenn Greenwald
1:35:27
about it.
1:35:27
Speaker 2: I saw that they did it. I have not had
1:35:29
a chance to watch it.
1:35:30
Speaker 1: Somebody sent it to me and it was, you know,
1:35:32
I'm being a good boy when it comes to social media.
1:35:35
It's been so good for my brain. Yeah. It's kind
1:35:38
of remarkable. So I got a new– Just staying off,
1:35:41
you mean. Yeah. My new phone, I'm not going to
1:35:43
put anything on it. I'm going to have my old
1:35:44
phone and leave it at home and I'm not going
1:35:47
to be able to look at it. So when I
1:35:49
have to post things, I got to post it on
1:35:50
my other phone that's not going to be with me.
1:35:52
I'm not doing that anymore because I just think eventually,
1:35:56
ultimately it rots your brain. But you do get some
1:36:00
cool debates and some insight into what's going on and
1:36:04
I don't know what Coleman's argument was. But Glenn and
1:36:08
Coleman were arguing about Israel's influence on this.
1:36:11
Speaker 2: Well, I'll be very interested to watch that. I do
1:36:13
respect Coleman despite disagreeing with him very adamantly.
1:36:17
Speaker 1: Very smart guy. Very smart guy. No question about it.
1:36:19
And a very nice guy too.
1:36:21
Speaker 2: And look, one of the things I really respect about
1:36:23
him is when I did his show, he literally starts
1:36:26
it by going– he goes, you know, almost all these
1:36:28
debates I see you in, like you're kind of debating
1:36:31
issues and then people just debate your character. And he goes,
1:36:34
I'm not doing that at all. I want to talk
1:36:36
about the issues the whole time.
1:36:37
Speaker 1: No, he doesn't do that at all.
1:36:37
Speaker 2: And I just genuinely appreciate that.
1:36:39
Speaker 1: I agree with him or disagree with him. He's a
1:36:41
super reasonable guy and a very nice guy. I like
1:36:44
him a lot. I like him a lot. Whether I
1:36:46
agree with him or disagree with him, he's a wonderful person. Agreed.
1:36:50
Speaker 2: This is what I will say about his position on this,
1:36:54
which I think is kind of interesting. So number one,
1:36:58
when I was on Piers Morgan with him right after
1:37:02
Venezuela happened, and He was his position. I don't want
1:37:07
to mischaracterize it, but I think this is pretty accurate,
1:37:09
was he was like, look, a lot of people are
1:37:11
comparing Venezuela to Iraq or Libya or Syria. But like
1:37:16
that is a different region, a different culture, a different religion.
1:37:20
And so really what we should be comparing this to
1:37:22
is other interventions in in Latin America and South America. And,
1:37:27
you know, I didn't completely agree with that. I was like, actually,
1:37:30
I think there are some lessons you could learn from
1:37:32
other wars that we've been in that might apply here.
1:37:34
But I was like, OK, fair enough. Hey, let's look
1:37:36
at other interventions in Central and South America, because we've
1:37:39
got a long list of.
1:37:40
Speaker 1: Really disastrous ones.
1:37:41
Speaker 2: Like if you want to look at Guatemala or Nicaragua or,
1:37:44
you know, Cuba, Mexico, a whole bunch. But then when
1:37:49
this war in Iran starts, I don't see him going
1:37:53
the equal opposite of that, going, hey, now that we're
1:37:56
at war with Iran, we have to judge this by
1:37:58
Iraq and Afghanistan and Libya and Syria, because you know
1:38:01
what I'm saying? Like that would be the flip side
1:38:03
to the other position. And so I don't see that.
1:38:05
The other thing is that when he's arguing with me
1:38:09
about– because I was arguing that the Israel lobby and
1:38:13
the Israeli government were a huge part of why we
1:38:15
fought the war in Iraq. And his big point that
1:38:18
he stuck to, a lot of the hawks stick to this,
1:38:20
is that Ariel Sharon was actually– who was the sitting
1:38:24
prime minister at the time. He was actually against the
1:38:26
war in Iraq. Now, that's not exactly true. He wanted
1:38:32
George W. Bush to invade Iran first, not Iraq. And
1:38:35
then when he got assurances that Iran would be next,
1:38:38
he got on board. You could go look at Sharon's speech.
1:38:40
He gave a speech, I think it was in August
1:38:42
of 2002 to the Knesset. And it's all about how
1:38:45
Iraq is the biggest threat. They have weapons of mass destruction.
1:38:47
But the Mossad was cranking out all types of BS
1:38:50
intelligence about the nuclear weapons that he could detonate in
1:38:54
15 minutes or whatever.
1:38:54
Speaker 1: It's all nonsense.
1:38:56
Speaker 2: But if you're going to say that that is evidence
1:38:59
that Israel was not pushing us into this because the
1:39:01
sitting prime minister at the time didn't like this war. Okay,
1:39:06
but again, then how does the current sitting prime minister
1:39:09
of Israel feel about this war in Iran?
1:39:11
Speaker 1: Because he's fighting it with us.
1:39:13
Speaker 2: And he said after it started that this is the
1:39:15
culmination of his entire life's work. He has been trying
1:39:19
to lie our government into this war for my entire lifetime.
1:39:24
Coming here, he testified how many times in front of
1:39:27
our Congress?
1:39:27
Speaker 1: Do you remember the one where he testified with the
1:39:28
cartoon of a bomb? At the UN. Cartoon. A bomb
1:39:32
cartoon with percentages of... of the enriched uranium.
1:39:35
Speaker 2: And like a Daffy Duck bomb. Not like the bomb
1:39:38
that'll blow your beak around to the other.
1:39:40
Speaker 1: A bowling ball with a fuse.
1:39:41
Speaker 2: And he was already up real high. He was already
1:39:44
up real high. No, dude, he was on record saying
1:39:46
that Iran was three to five years away from getting
1:39:48
a nuclear weapon in the 90s.
1:39:49
Speaker 1: In the 90s, yeah. I mean, he's just been lying
1:39:52
through his teeth.
1:39:53
Speaker 2: And there is something, look, man, there's something really profoundly
1:39:58
dishonorable about trying to lie another country Into war. Like,
1:40:05
not even trying to sell the war to your own
1:40:06
people and have your own military do it. But because
1:40:09
you can't.
1:40:09
Speaker 1: There it is. Yeah, there we are. We were up
1:40:11
to 90%. First stage. No, it was first stage we
1:40:14
were at. He was saying they've hit the first stage. Oh, oh, oh,
1:40:19
excuse me. Okay, yeah, you're right.
1:40:20
Speaker 2: I guess this is, we can't.
1:40:21
Speaker 1: We can't go any further.
1:40:23
Speaker 2: It's just so ridiculous. And he knows he's lying.
1:40:26
Speaker 1: He's like your friend that, like, you've been friends with
1:40:29
since high school. And every time you go out, he
1:40:31
gets you in a fight. They're like, dude, don't do this.
1:40:33
Those guys over there are a fucking problem. Let's go
1:40:36
over there and fuck them up. And all your buddies
1:40:39
are like, dude, this guy again?
1:40:41
Speaker 2: Did I use that exact analogy when I debated Josh
1:40:43
Hammer at Princeton University? Or maybe it was with the
1:40:47
Charlie Cargill. It was one of the times I debated him.
1:40:49
But I used that exact analogy. It was like, is
1:40:51
Israel an ally? And I was like, no. They're not
1:40:53
a good friend. If your friend's getting you in a
1:40:55
bar fight every night, stop hanging out with that guy.
1:40:58
Speaker 1: Bro, Tim Dillon did an ad recently. for NeuroGum and
1:41:02
NeuroMints on his podcast where he's like, I have a friend.
1:41:08
Speaker 7: Let's just call her Erica. And he does this Erica
1:41:12
Kirk ad. He doesn't say it's Erica Kirk for NeuroGum.
1:41:17
Have you heard of Jamie?
1:41:18
Speaker 1: I think so. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. It's
1:41:22
so funny. Oh, my God. It's so crazy. He's so
1:41:26
out of his– I fucking love him so much. I'm
1:41:29
so happy Tim Dillon's in the world. He is the–
1:41:32
He's the best. If you're not listening to his podcast
1:41:34
and you want a rational but hilarious take. on all
1:41:37
the fucking madness that's going on with not just this war,
1:41:40
but the Epstein Files. His episode of the Epstein Files,
1:41:43
I hardly ever tweet about other people's podcasts, but I
1:41:47
hardly ever tweet, but I posted it. I'm like, this
1:41:49
is one of the best podcasts about anything ever.
1:41:53
Speaker 2: His ability, Tim's ability to like rant, it like, like
1:41:59
a hilarious rant that is laced with excellent points, but
1:42:03
it's just hilarious the whole time. And just him going
1:42:05
off is, Second to none.
1:42:07
Speaker 1: And he's sober. He just puts on his magic glasses.
1:42:10
Speaker 2: It's him and Fuentes are the top two.
1:42:13
Speaker 1: But he buries Fuentes. Fuentes is really good. Fuentes has-
1:42:17
Tim can do.
1:42:18
Speaker 2: Something different than anybody else can do.
1:42:20
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, his ability to blend sarcasm and just celebration
1:42:26
of chaos. Yeah. It's second to none. He's the best
1:42:29
ranter that's ever walked the face of the planet.
1:42:32
Speaker 2: I remember when I first met Tim in New York-
1:42:35
back before he moved out to L.A. after that. But
1:42:38
we first met him in New York, and he was,
1:42:40
I think, like, he was a green stand-up. I think
1:42:43
he hadn't been doing it for that long. But I
1:42:45
remember just, like, being on podcasts with him and just
1:42:48
being like, yo, this dude is going to be a
1:42:52
fucking superstar. Like, it was just, like, his ranting, like, ability. Like,
1:42:57
he would go off on things where you would just
1:43:00
find yourself, like, Like, you almost have a moment where
1:43:02
you forget you're on the show with him.
1:43:04
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:43:04
Speaker 2: You're like, I'm just sitting here watching. And then I'm like, oh, shit,
1:43:07
I'm here, too. I better say something. But, like, he's
1:43:09
just unbelievable.
1:43:11
Speaker 1: Listen to this ad. Listen to this ad.
1:43:15
Speaker 5: I don't know if I should tell this, but it
1:43:16
does show how effective Neuromint can be. A friend of mine,
1:43:22
let's call her Erica.
1:43:25
Speaker 1: She's had a wild life, this woman.
1:43:29
Speaker 5: She was in Romania. She had an orphanage. She was
1:43:33
on a reality show. She married this famous guy. She
1:43:38
was an intelligence asset. And I said to her, how
1:43:41
do you do this? And she says, Tim, it's Neuro's Energy.
1:43:46
Speaker 1: And Focus Mints.
1:43:48
Speaker 5: And I said, but how do you do it after
1:43:50
the guy, the husband and father of the kids gets
1:43:54
murdered and you're out there– Doing all kinds of stuff.
1:43:58
You're doing fundraisers and you're dancing around with glitter pants.
1:44:01
Speaker 1: How does this happen?
1:44:03
Speaker 5: She goes, I could lie to you, but I'm telling
1:44:06
you it's Neuro's Energy and Focus Mints.
1:44:08
Speaker 1: I said, really? She goes, sure.
1:44:12
Speaker 5: I said, how are you running this organization seven hours
1:44:15
after this guy got popped? She goes, a lot of
1:44:18
people speculate, but it's Neuro's Energy and Focus Mints.
1:44:24
Speaker 1: I go, really?
1:44:26
Speaker 5: She said, yeah, Neuro Energy and Focus is powered by
1:44:28
natural green tea caffeine, L-theanine for calm, focus, and vitamin B12,
1:44:32
and B6 for.
1:44:34
Speaker 2: I mean, whatever they're paying him, they should pay him more.
1:44:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not enough. No one can pay him enough.
1:44:41
He's the GOAT.
1:44:42
Speaker 2: Well, that'll also just make you remember that product forever.
1:44:45
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, he's the greatest of all time. I'm trying
1:44:49
to figure out how to turn our racetrack sign on
1:44:53
all the way. Is it broken? Goddamn, we need a
1:44:55
new one? I'll get a hold of Bobby. He's the GOAT, dude.
1:45:01
I had someone in the White House come up to
1:45:05
me and go, is Tim Dillon really gay? I go, yeah,
1:45:08
he's really gay. You think he would fake that? He goes,
1:45:10
how long have you known him? I go, I've known
1:45:12
him forever. He's really gay. Yeah.
1:45:14
Speaker 2: Well, he's a real good undercover, but every now and
1:45:17
then you see it come out. Every now and then
1:45:19
you see like, like I remember, and this is back
1:45:21
when he was young and he was broke at the time,
1:45:24
but Tim was always kind of a snob even when
1:45:26
he was, like it was always kind of, and I went,
1:45:29
I forget what it was, but I was like, I
1:45:31
was like, oh, we could get food from this restaurant.
1:45:34
And he goes, from there I go, yeah, they got
1:45:35
good food. And he goes, You think that's good food?
1:45:38
Because he's like a real foodie or whatever. And I
1:45:41
was just like, oh, I saw it for a second there.
1:45:43
Speaker 1: Well, he used to have money because he had money
1:45:45
when he was selling.
1:45:45
Speaker 2: He had money in finance.
1:45:46
Speaker 1: Then he decided to be- Subprime mortgages. Yeah. He was
1:45:49
a part of the housing crisis. That's right. And he
1:45:51
was doing cocaine back then.
1:45:53
Speaker 2: He did topple the US economy for a while.
1:45:55
Speaker 1: He was part of it. But then he got into comedy.
1:45:57
Speaker 2: He more than made up for it.
1:45:59
Speaker 1: He's more than made up for that. This is where
1:46:01
he belongs. Yeah. He belongs in front of that screen.
1:46:05
With the glasses on, just going on these insane rants. Oh, yeah.
1:46:08
He's so funny, man. His Epstein Files take was fucking genius, man.
1:46:12
That was great.
1:46:13
Speaker 2: Dude, his thing about Sam Harris having a meditation app
1:46:17
and also supporting genocide.
1:46:20
Speaker 1: It's like the most hilarious thing ever. Like, what human
1:46:23
being does both of those? Such a great take on that. Oh,
1:46:28
he's so funny, man. Yeah, we're lucky, dude. We're... we're
1:46:32
a part of a really cool group of people right now.
1:46:35
You know, it's a very unusual time that the mainstream
1:46:40
has lost all of its power of influence on people.
1:46:43
It still puts out information. It still puts out shows,
1:46:46
but they're trying to look like you, but they're funk.
1:46:51
That Jake Tabber thing was so crazy. I was like,
1:46:53
what are you doing? Are you doing a podcast now? Like,
1:46:55
what are you doing?
1:46:55
Speaker 2: It's, it's such a perfect, like little microcosm though, of like,
1:46:59
it's almost painful. Like I'm like, guys, just, Can you
1:47:02
hire me? I mean, like I would explain this to you. No,
1:47:07
it didn't work either because they're so trained.
1:47:10
Speaker 1: It's like if you get a dog and that dog
1:47:15
has been maybe a cat might be a better example.
1:47:18
If you never had a litter box in the house
1:47:19
and the cat's been pissing all over the carpet, you
1:47:22
are always going to have that cat piss on the carpet.
1:47:24
That's what that cat does. You're not going to fix them.
1:47:26
If your entire life you've been spitting out nonsense from
1:47:30
a teleprompter. And now all of a sudden you have
1:47:32
to be yourself. You've been functioning in a world of
1:47:35
executives and producers where everybody goes over every little thing
1:47:38
you say and do. You 100% read things you know
1:47:43
aren't true or at least partially aren't true. Yeah, the mics.
1:47:46
Speaker 3: For like everything.
1:47:47
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
1:47:47
Speaker 2: Their whole setup is they're all trying to look like podcasters.
1:47:51
Speaker 1: No. Wait a minute. They put mics out like podcasters.
1:47:54
That's crazy. Imagine if they think that's all it takes. Well,
1:47:58
this is.
1:47:59
Speaker 2: But Joe, talk about completely missing the point.
1:48:02
Speaker 1: Right.
1:48:02
Speaker 2: It's just fundamentally missing it. Is that they go. They
1:48:05
actually go.
1:48:06
Speaker 1: Okay.
1:48:07
Speaker 2: So all of these people have left, you know, watching
1:48:10
cable news in droves. And now a lot of people
1:48:13
listen to podcasts. They'll listen to you or Theo Vaughn
1:48:16
or whoever it might be. And a huge reason, right?
1:48:20
why people, a huge reason why you've been number one
1:48:23
for so long now is because however anyone feels about you,
1:48:28
you're authentic. And it's very hard to deny that. One
1:48:31
of the biggest questions I get when people meet me,
1:48:34
if I do meet and greet after shows or something, it's,
1:48:37
what's Joe Rogan like? It's a question I get all
1:48:39
the time because we're buddies and I've been on the
1:48:40
show a lot of times and people love you. And
1:48:44
they'll go, what's Joe Rogan like? And I always tell
1:48:45
them the same thing. I go, you already know. You
1:48:49
already know who he is. He's that guy. And then offstage,
1:48:53
he's that guy.
1:48:53
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
1:48:54
Speaker 2: That's who he is.
1:48:55
Speaker 1: And people like that. People like that.
1:48:57
Speaker 2: Whatever you think about Theo Vaughn, he's authentic.
1:49:00
Speaker 1: He's being himself.
1:49:01
Speaker 2: That's who he is.
1:49:01
Speaker 1: Well, that's how it works.
1:49:03
Speaker 2: And because you guys in the corporate media– are all
1:49:06
professional liars and have lied to the American people about
1:49:09
the last 17 crises. You know, they don't trust you anymore.
1:49:13
And so then their reaction to that is you go, well,
1:49:16
what if we pretended to be podcasters?
1:49:19
Speaker 1: No, you dummy. That's the whole thing.
1:49:21
Speaker 2: This is just proving further how inauthentic you are.
1:49:24
Speaker 1: Do they have fucking meetings on this?
1:49:26
Speaker 6: 100%.
1:49:27
Speaker 2: 100% they do. Dude, they all, this was to me,
1:49:32
despite the fact that I, you know, and people can
1:49:35
give me shit about voting for Donald Trump and they
1:49:37
could say I should have known better and whatever. I
1:49:39
was a huge critic of him in his first term
1:49:40
and I'm a huge critic of him in his second term. But,
1:49:43
The best thing about Donald Trump winning in 24, and
1:49:45
I did predict this right. I'm not always the best
1:49:47
with predictions. I'm pretty good on issues, I think, but
1:49:49
I'm not great at predictions.
1:49:50
Speaker 1: They're tough.
1:49:51
Speaker 2: But the best thing about Donald Trump winning was that
1:49:55
the corporate media finally admitted it. They had been pretending
1:49:58
for so long. I remember we used to joke about it.
1:50:00
I remember coming on like a few years ago, and
1:50:03
we would joke about how Brian Stelter would always, whenever
1:50:06
he talked about you, he would always kind of go
1:50:08
like the fringe Joe Rogan. Like as if he's the
1:50:12
mainstream and you're the fringe. As if the numbers aren't
1:50:15
readily available to all of us that we could be like,
1:50:17
your show has like 200,000 listening and his has 20 million.
1:50:20
So how is he the fringe and you're the mainstream?
1:50:23
I think they thought that. Maybe they believed it. But 24,
1:50:27
the election, that's when they all admitted it. And then
1:50:30
the talking point moved to we need to find our
1:50:33
own Joe Rogan. The Democrats need to find.
1:50:35
Speaker 1: A Joe Rogan or whatever.
1:50:36
Speaker 2: Remember, that was like– so they kind of admitted that, oh,
1:50:39
the podcasts have become the new mainstream and we are
1:50:42
the fringe.
1:50:43
Speaker 1: Right, but the dumb part of that statement was you
1:50:46
already had me, you fucking idiots. You just lost your mind.
1:50:49
I'm not right and I'm not left. Yeah. I think
1:50:52
both of them suck and I think the adherence to
1:50:55
the ideologies that the left supports or the right supports
1:50:58
is out of their– you got to be out of
1:50:59
your fucking mind whether it's these– crackpot Christian nationalists that
1:51:03
think that this whole war is a way to get
1:51:05
Jesus to return on a white horse. Yeah. Do you
1:51:08
see those guys that were talking? Yeah. During the readiness
1:51:11
fucking meeting that I think that's nuts too. I think
1:51:15
the woke shit and all the chaos of the fucking
1:51:18
last four years of having a completely open border and
1:51:20
the justifications of all these things. That's nuts too. I'm
1:51:23
not on either buddy's side, anyone's side. But I think
1:51:25
the Democrats aren't ever going to get someone like me
1:51:28
because I'm not with either or I'm not with either or.
1:51:32
I'm with whoever fucking makes sense and no one makes
1:51:34
sense until AI comes along. I think they're going to
1:51:37
do a really good job. President perplexity is going to
1:51:39
run this country fairly and balanced. I'm willing to try
1:51:43
it at this point. I'm fucking dead serious, man. As
1:51:46
long as it doesn't do something to harm people. As
1:51:51
long as like that's its goal. Its goal is just
1:51:52
to manage society. It's a big if that you got there.
1:51:55
But yes, if we can get that. Enjoying the hive, Dave.
1:51:59
Speaker 2: But what you just said I think is really– Open
1:52:00
the pod door, Hal. This is something that I'm encouraged
1:52:03
by is that I think what you just said there,
1:52:05
I really do believe that you speak for super majorities
1:52:08
of the American people. And that's why even though Donald
1:52:11
Trump has shattered his coalition by lying us into this
1:52:14
stupid war on behalf of a foreign country– that coalition
1:52:18
is still ripe for someone else to pick it up
1:52:20
and run with it. And that's kind of what I'm hoping.
1:52:23
I hope Thomas Massey runs for president. I think, by
1:52:25
the way, they're doing a big money bomb for Thomas
1:52:27
Massey on March 30th. And I think him winning reelection
1:52:29
in Congress is like the most important political election in
1:52:32
the country right now because he's done nothing wrong except
1:52:35
actually stand up for America first and for all the
1:52:38
stuff that Donald Trump and Tulsi Gabbard and all these
1:52:41
people ran on. And he's gotten... The Israel lobby and
1:52:45
the Adelson's, but I repeat myself, have been pouring millions
1:52:49
of dollars into his race to try to unseat him
1:52:51
for the crime of not going along with the Epstein
1:52:54
cover up and not going along with another stupid war
1:52:56
and having some like fiscal sanity. So I hope I
1:52:59
hope he wins.
1:53:00
Speaker 1: I imagine those three negatives. Imagine those being three negatives
1:53:03
that people are saying he's not MAGA.
1:53:06
Speaker 2: What is MAGA then? Well, if that's– I don't know.
1:53:09
My position is always like if you're saying– if not
1:53:13
supporting covering up the Epstein files or not supporting a
1:53:17
stupid war of choice, a war of aggression on behalf
1:53:20
of Israel means I'm not MAGA, then OK, I'm not MAGA.
1:53:23
I'm not attached to the phrase, make America great again.
1:53:28
Speaker 1: I don't care. But if that phrase sucks, here's the thing.
1:53:32
First of all, America is great. Make America greater, I'm down.
1:53:37
But make America great again and then it becomes a
1:53:39
movement of a bunch of fucking dorks because a lot
1:53:42
of them are dorks. A lot of them are these
1:53:44
really weird fucking uninteresting, unintelligent people that have got something
1:53:50
they cling to. And there's a lot of people that
1:53:52
are just real genuine patriots. And they're all lumped into
1:53:55
this one group and you've got to accept the dorks too.
1:53:57
Fuck that. Like the concept of making America great is
1:54:01
a great idea. But as soon as you have a
1:54:03
fucking team and you allow anybody to join up, You
1:54:07
don't even have tryouts for your team. So you've got
1:54:10
a bunch of fucking dipshits that are running around spouting
1:54:14
out opinions and you have to go along with them
1:54:16
because they're MAGA. And then you've got bots online that
1:54:19
are probably from fucking Indonesia or Russia or wherever. And
1:54:23
they're pretending they're MAGA and they're saying crazy shit. So
1:54:26
that's a part of MAGA too. You've fucked up by
1:54:29
becoming a part of a group. Whether it's a Republican group,
1:54:33
a Democrat group, a MAGA group, a fucking woke group,
1:54:37
whatever it is, you fucked up by being in a group. Yeah.
1:54:41
Speaker 2: George Carlin said people are great as individuals.
1:54:44
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:54:44
Speaker 2: But when they get in a group, man, they're the
1:54:45
worst things in the world. And that's why it should
1:54:48
be about the issues. It should be about your principles
1:54:52
and what you believe in. And you should be like, look,
1:54:55
I've said many nice things about Tulsi Gabbard over the
1:54:58
years and I was– extremely critical of her over since
1:55:02
last summer into now, because I think she's lying us
1:55:04
into a war, which is the war that she was
1:55:07
always opposed to, the one. She sold no war with
1:55:11
Iran T-shirts. How is she lying.
1:55:14
Speaker 1: Us into this war?
1:55:16
Speaker 2: Because that's a big statement.
1:55:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
1:55:18
Speaker 2: And it's true. So last summer, so Tulsi Gabbard had
1:55:24
given her, as the director of national intelligence does every year,
1:55:27
they give their annual threat assessment. And she testified before
1:55:30
Congress about it. And she– it was very clear in
1:55:33
her annual threat assessment that Iran was not attempting to
1:55:37
build nuclear weapons, that they had not yet made the
1:55:40
political decision to attempt to build nuclear weapons, let alone
1:55:44
like are actually going for it. And she testified before
1:55:48
Congress saying the same thing. And then after– while they
1:55:52
were negotiating, Israel sneak attacks them. Then she had some
1:55:55
post where she goes, Iran could be– weeks or months
1:56:00
away from nuclear weapons, which was total bullshit. It made
1:56:03
absolutely no.
1:56:04
Speaker 1: Sense at all.
1:56:04
Speaker 2: Let me see what the Post has.
1:56:06
Speaker 1: Sure.
1:56:06
Speaker 2: If you can find it, this is from last June.
1:56:08
Speaker 1: Right, but is that a fact? So if they're enriching
1:56:11
uranium up to 60% and they just have to enrich
1:56:15
it further for the ability to use it in nuclear weapons,
1:56:18
that is a couple weeks away.
1:56:19
Speaker 2: No, but not before it would be. To build a
1:56:22
bomb and to make it deliverable, I think all the
1:56:24
experts say at least a couple years. But the point
1:56:27
aside from that is that At the time– and this
1:56:29
is over now– but at the time, Iran was still
1:56:32
members of the JCPOA. They were still in it. So
1:56:35
it's like– What is that? This is the Iran deal
1:56:37
that Obama got us into. Obama is horrible on foreign policy.
1:56:42
He's the butcher of Libya and Syria and Yemen and
1:56:45
he surged in Afghanistan. But in Iran, he made a
1:56:49
deal with them. And the deal– but it wasn't just
1:56:51
with the US and Iran. It also involved Russia, Iran.
1:56:55
and France and England, and there were other countries involved
1:56:58
in it too. And the JCPOA said that Iran couldn't
1:57:02
enrich above, I think it was three to 5% or
1:57:05
something like that. And they were staying in it. And
1:57:07
it created a new inspections regime, which Iran, so they
1:57:10
were having full inspections. They weren't enriched. But the deal
1:57:13
also said that if America gets out of the deal,
1:57:16
they can enrich up to higher. So when America got
1:57:19
out of the deal, they started enriching.
1:57:20
Speaker 1: And when did America get out of the deal?
1:57:22
Speaker 2: Donald Trump tore it up in his first term. I
1:57:25
want to say 2017 or 2018.
1:57:26
Speaker 1: And then they immediately started enriching?
1:57:28
Speaker 2: No, they went up a little bit. And then I
1:57:30
think there were a couple Israeli attacks. And then they
1:57:32
went up to enriching at 60%. But so the reason
1:57:35
we knew they were enriching up to 60% is because
1:57:38
they were still members of the JCPOA with an inspections
1:57:40
regime who was going in there and saying they're enriching
1:57:42
up to 60%.
1:57:43
Speaker 1: Right. How much do you actually know about enriching uranium
1:57:46
and what it takes to turn into a bomb? Let's
1:57:49
read what she says. New intelligence. Confirm what POTUS has
1:57:52
stated numerous times. Iran's nuclear facilities have been destroyed. I
1:57:55
think this is after. This isn't the right one.
1:57:58
Speaker 2: Her tweet was before.
1:57:59
Speaker 1: This is from June.
1:58:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, this would have been just shortly before.
1:58:02
Speaker 1: Very recently.
1:58:03
Speaker 2: Her tweet was before we hit Fordow.
1:58:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is June 25th. There's a recent one, though. Oh,
1:58:11
edited June 25th. Yeah, but it seems like it was
1:58:14
still edited the day it was posted.
1:58:17
Speaker 2: Probably.
1:58:17
Speaker 1: Can you go to her page? Because she doesn't tweet
1:58:20
a lot. She's not a psycho. She's not one of those.
1:58:24
If she tweets, it's generally something important. Or someone from
1:58:27
our team is... So is this the– hold on. Above that.
1:58:34
Overwhelmingly elected by the– click on that show more.
1:58:37
Speaker 2: I think that's it. Well, this is what she testified
1:58:41
to Congress this time. I was referring to a different one.
1:58:44
But I also think this is a lie. I mean
1:58:48
for her to say that the president determines what is
1:58:52
an imminent threat or is not– No, either there is
1:58:54
an imminent threat or there is not one. This is
1:58:57
like saying the president determines the weather.
1:58:59
Speaker 1: Or something like that. But you're taking her words out
1:59:01
of context. She's saying something that's factually correct. As our commander-in-chief,
1:59:06
he is responsible for determining what is and is not
1:59:10
an imminent threat. That is true. And whether or not
1:59:12
to take action, he deems necessary to protect the safety
1:59:15
and security of our troops, the American people, and our country.
1:59:17
That's just an actual fact.
1:59:19
Speaker 2: Okay, yes, fair enough. But when she testified before Congress,
1:59:22
they asked her, like, They asked her point blank a
1:59:25
bunch of times about this. And then she goes, that's
1:59:28
not my job to determine what's an imminent threat. That's
1:59:31
the job of the president. And if he says it is.
1:59:32
Speaker 1: Then it is. OK, so look at this here. Initially,
1:59:35
she's contradicting Trump, saying that Iran did not rebuild after
1:59:40
the 2025 strikes, contradicting Trump. So this is also from
1:59:44
Time magazine. So she's saying that. Now, what you're saying
1:59:47
that she said earlier was a lie is not a lie, dude,
1:59:50
because that is actually.
1:59:52
Speaker 2: His– Well, I wasn't referring to that.
1:59:54
Speaker 1: I understand. But you did say that was a lie,
1:59:56
what she said was a lie.
1:59:57
Speaker 2: Okay, fair enough. That was not a lie.
1:59:58
Speaker 1: But it was– but it is– But it's actually correct.
2:00:03
And if you're in a position like she's in where
2:00:05
you've got that guy breathing down your neck and you're
2:00:07
forced to make a statement, you've got to tread– very
2:00:12
carefully on this tight rope that you're walking. Okay, fine.
2:00:14
Speaker 2: But let's just say, hypothetically, that you know for a
2:00:17
fact that Iran did not pose an imminent threat. And
2:00:20
then that's your answer when you're asked if they did.
2:00:23
Speaker 1: Fine.
2:00:23
Speaker 2: It's not a lie.
2:00:24
Speaker 1: But it is.
2:00:27
Speaker 2: Very misleading, to say the least.
2:00:30
Speaker 1: How much... Okay, hold on. Intel Chief Gabbard declines to
2:00:33
say if Iran posed an imminent threat to the U.S.
2:00:36
She declined to say... on her own, personally. This is
2:00:40
the congressional testimony. Yes, yes, yes.
2:00:41
Speaker 2: I think this is what I was referring to here.
2:00:43
And she does at one point say that it's not
2:00:45
her job to make that determination, which I do think
2:00:47
is her entire job.
2:00:51
Speaker 1: It's interesting.
2:00:52
Speaker 2: Look, maybe I'm being a little harsh by saying lying
2:00:54
in that example. And fair enough to your point there.
2:00:56
Like that technically is a true statement. I do think
2:00:59
it's very misleading. And I do think that she really
2:01:02
was the one who advocated against this specific war for
2:01:06
the reasons that we're seeing unfold right now. And I
2:01:09
do think I get your point. It's a very tough
2:01:11
tightrope to walk. The options are essentially, I think, to
2:01:14
do what Joe Kent did and resign or to stay
2:01:17
on and support the thing. I mean, I think it's
2:01:19
kind of hard to thread that needle.
2:01:21
Speaker 1: Right. Do you think that there is any value in
2:01:25
being one of the few reasonable voices that has his ear? Yeah.
2:01:29
If ultimately it is his responsibility to determine what's an
2:01:32
imminent threat and what is not, I would imagine that
2:01:36
she gets access to most of the same classified information
2:01:40
that he does as the director of national intelligence. I
2:01:43
don't know, though. I don't know how it works. But
2:01:47
what can she do other than– Try to be a
2:01:51
voice of reason if ultimately this guy is going to
2:01:53
do what he wants to do. Right. And he's going
2:01:55
to do it also what Israel wants to do clearly.
2:01:58
And he's talked about it, you know, and also in
2:02:01
his first term. I'll never forget this fucking conversation that
2:02:03
he had with Steve Hilton because I think it was
2:02:05
one of the first times since I remember. I've seen
2:02:07
a president say Steve Hilton, by the way, I've been
2:02:10
friends with him for 12 or 13 years. Met him
2:02:14
and his family in Maui on the beach when my
2:02:16
daughter's really young and his kids really young. They became friends.
2:02:19
We've hung out together, vacationed together. He's a sweetheart of
2:02:21
a guy. I love that guy. And when he was
2:02:26
interviewing Trump, Trump said that there is a military industrial
2:02:31
complex and these guys want to go to war. Yep.
2:02:34
And we were like, what? This is– you're just saying that?
2:02:38
Like you're just saying that. It's one of the many
2:02:41
reasons why a lot of people liked him. Because he
2:02:45
would do things like that where he would completely break
2:02:47
protocol and just say, let me know. Let me let
2:02:50
you know, rather. Let me inform you, there's a bunch
2:02:53
of people that want to go to war. And they're
2:02:55
pushing me all the time to go to war. That's
2:02:57
what they want.
2:02:58
Speaker 2: It was so crazy, dude, because also even Eisenhower, when
2:03:00
he coined the term, it was in his farewell address
2:03:02
to the nation. He was literally like, this is my
2:03:04
last stop and then I'm leaving. Trump was just in
2:03:06
the middle of his presidency and he goes, all of
2:03:08
them want war. They all want me to be in
2:03:10
war all the time. If it was up to them,
2:03:11
we'd always be at war. And I do, you know, now, look,
2:03:16
that was great. I thought actually the one to me
2:03:17
that was even crazier was if you remember when Bill
2:03:20
O'Reilly died. was interviewing him, and he's talking about Vladimir Putin,
2:03:24
and he goes, he's like, oh, well, you won't, you know,
2:03:26
at the time, Donald Trump, which he had run on,
2:03:28
he was saying we should have detente with Russia.
2:03:31
Speaker 1: He goes, like, why do we, you know, we have
2:03:32
all the nuclear weapons. He's like, Putin's killed people.
2:03:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, he goes, Putin's a killer. You want to have
2:03:36
a detente with a killer? And he goes, we got
2:03:38
a lot of killers, too. And then he goes, whoa,
2:03:41
what do you mean? We got a lot of killers, too.
2:03:43
And he goes, what was Iraq?
2:03:45
Speaker 1: What was that?
2:03:45
Speaker 2: We got a lot of killers on our side, too.
2:03:47
And then Bill O'Reilly said, well, I mean, Iraq was
2:03:49
a mistake. But he goes, yeah, we got a lot
2:03:52
of killers, too. And I love that, by the way.
2:03:54
I mean, that was a that's breaking protocol.
2:03:57
Speaker 1: Yes. Yes.
2:03:58
Speaker 2: Well, I think this is kind of I think one
2:04:01
of the main reasons why the establishment revolted against Trump
2:04:05
the way they did. There's something very scary to the
2:04:09
powers that be. about a guy who like by his
2:04:12
very nature, like I don't even think he's capable of
2:04:16
not letting things slip.
2:04:18
Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
2:04:19
Speaker 2: Like he's just, that's who he is. And that, you know,
2:04:22
was a big thing that people really didn't like about him.
2:04:25
Very interesting to me is that so many of the
2:04:30
never Trumpers have come to define his presidency. Like if you,
2:04:35
if you remember back in, in 2016, the, the, the,
2:04:40
war hawk kind of Israel first or Republican crowd, the
2:04:44
neocons and all them. They hated Donald Trump, hated.
2:04:48
Speaker 1: Him with a passion.
2:04:49
Speaker 2: Ben Shapiro was a never Trumper. He said because of
2:04:52
his deeply held principles, he could never support Donald Trump.
2:04:56
Mark Levin was a never Trumper, all of National Review,
2:05:00
all of them. And now they are the biggest Trump
2:05:04
supporters ever as kind of he's blown up the coalition
2:05:07
that got him elected. So it's kind of interesting that
2:05:10
they all– but again.
2:05:14
Speaker 1: Tell those guys to all stay off Twitter. There's not
2:05:16
one thing that they ever say that makes them look better.
2:05:19
They get in these silly fucking– they just feel like
2:05:22
they're going to make some stupid fucking statement and then
2:05:25
refute a couple of people and don't understand the crowd
2:05:29
reaction when you've got thousands of people tweeting against you now.
2:05:34
Thousands just attacking you, destroying you, posting memes, posting videos.
2:05:39
You said this and you said that, you piece of shit.
2:05:41
It's amazing. It's crazy. I got to say, I do
2:05:44
love that dynamic of it. I love it too. There's
2:05:47
something that- That's why I stay off of it.
2:05:49
Speaker 3: Yeah.
2:05:49
Speaker 2: Well, look, there's problems with it, but there is something
2:05:52
about that dynamic now that was just never true in
2:05:55
the past where it's like, look, I'm not saying it's perfect.
2:05:58
And obviously there's bots and there's things like that. So
2:06:00
it's not like a- The people kind of get a
2:06:03
voice in a way that they never had before.
2:06:05
Speaker 1: Right.
2:06:05
Speaker 2: And there is something kind of cool about that.
2:06:07
Speaker 1: A hundred percent. I love it. But it's not all
2:06:11
the people either. It's a lot of fake people. There's
2:06:13
a lot of like state-sponsored actors. No, that's true. That's true.
2:06:16
Speaker 2: There's manipulation. But there was always manipulation in the old
2:06:19
order also.
2:06:20
Speaker 1: Did you see this YouTube bot farm that they just busted? No.
2:06:24
They busted this fucking warehouse had cell phones all rigged
2:06:30
up for YouTube views. Where people would just– they would
2:06:33
just hire a company and say, hey, you know, part
2:06:37
of the problem is not getting enough views. I'd really
2:06:39
like to blow the fuck up and get to number one.
2:06:42
And you hire them and they can get views. Interesting. Yeah.
2:06:46
Speaker 2: Well, that's also– I mean I guess if you've got advertisements,
2:06:48
that's legit fraud.
2:06:50
Speaker 1: 100%.
2:06:50
Speaker 2: That's like actual fraud.
2:06:53
Speaker 1: 100%. And kind of a weird loophole where I don't
2:06:55
think it's illegal.
2:06:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's got to be– that's interesting.
2:06:58
Speaker 1: So there's a debat thing too. It's got to be
2:06:59
some type of.
2:07:00
Speaker 2: Fraud though if you're like– if you're intentionally doing that.
2:07:02
Like maybe if you didn't know.
2:07:04
Speaker 1: Right. But listen, Twitter pays people. X pays people to post.
2:07:11
So you pay based on engagement, right? That's how you
2:07:14
get paid. So you farm out engagement. Right. So, like,
2:07:18
what percentage of what we're interacting with is just horseshit? Well,
2:07:22
I got, so, what does it say here?
2:07:24
Speaker 3: I know this story just happened. A guy got arrested
2:07:27
and had to plead guilty because he made, I think,
2:07:29
I think what happens, he made a fake ban.
2:07:31
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, he had an AR generated song. Oh, wow.
2:07:35
It played billions of times in an effort to mimic
2:07:38
the genuine streaming activity of real consumers. Smith pled guilty today,
2:07:41
conspiracy to commit wire fraud. Wire fraud.
2:07:44
Speaker 3: Check this out, though. I heard a similar story in Japan.
2:07:47
Speaker 1: First of all, let me stop you right there. Michael
2:07:49
Smith generated thousands of fake songs using artificial intelligence. Hey, hey, hey.
2:07:54
Stop talking shit about AI music cause it's not fake
2:07:57
those are real songs don't say fake songs they're real
2:08:02
songs and some of them are fucking bangers unfortunately some
2:08:07
of them are really good.
2:08:08
Speaker 3: You're gonna like what I was gonna say then a
2:08:10
guy was doing this in Japan and it got viral
2:08:14
and so he hired people to be the band And
2:08:17
now the band is a real band.
2:08:18
Speaker 1: Whoa. Kind of popular.
2:08:20
Speaker 2: So AI is creating jobs in this case.
2:08:25
Speaker 1: Shifty Brent rules though. You can never create him in
2:08:27
real life. He's the guy who does the 50-cent ones. Oh, yeah.
2:08:31
Speaker 2: I've seen quite a few of those.
2:08:33
Speaker 1: First of all, that guy was really– he'd have lungs
2:08:35
like a fucking ultramarathon runner because the flow. Like how
2:08:38
can you even have air to say what you're saying?
2:08:40
Like someone was saying that to me. She was like,
2:08:42
I think you couldn't do this. And my argument was Eminem.
2:08:46
I was like, yeah, you could. You just have to
2:08:48
be wicked at it like Eminem. Like Eminem in his prime,
2:08:50
that motherfucker could spit in a way where you're like,
2:08:53
I can't believe he's still talking.
2:08:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was– I remember there were a couple of
2:08:57
his things where I was like, I don't– can he
2:09:00
actually do this? And then I saw him do it live.
2:09:02
Not like I was there. He can still do it.
2:09:03
I saw it on YouTube where you're like, oh, he
2:09:05
can actually rap like this.
2:09:07
Speaker 1: I saw him recently. It was fucking great. He's still great.
2:09:09
Speaker 3: He's thin.
2:09:10
Speaker 1: He looks good. Yeah, he was killing it, man. He
2:09:13
was killing it. But the speed in which that he
2:09:16
can rap made me go maybe AI is not bullshit.
2:09:19
But 50 Cent himself was like much more casual in
2:09:23
his delivery.
2:09:23
Speaker 2: Yes.
2:09:24
Speaker 1: And it was much slower. The Shifty Brent AI version
2:09:29
is like, damn, that was a real person? That'd be
2:09:33
pretty great. He would be the greatest artist on earth?
2:09:35
Speaker 2: There was a guy, I can't remember his name, but
2:09:37
just like the other day. some guy, he works for
2:09:41
Fox News, and he came out and had a whole
2:09:43
post about me, and he goes, he goes, Dave Smith's
2:09:46
account is clearly botted by foreign, like, and I'm almost, like,
2:09:50
when he said that, I was almost kind of like,
2:09:52
there's a weird thing, like, I know I've never paid
2:09:55
for anything, but, like, I don't know, you know what
2:09:57
I mean, like, what someone else might have done or
2:09:59
something like that, but I asked him, so I replied
2:10:02
to him, and I go, wait, what evidence do you
2:10:04
have of this? And then he, his post was that
2:10:07
he said, because I had 900,000 followers on Twitter, but
2:10:13
I'm playing Laugh Boston this weekend. And he goes, that's
2:10:16
a 300-seat venue.
2:10:18
Speaker 1: I played that venue sometimes, too. First of all, he
2:10:21
doesn't understand comedy clubs.
2:10:22
Speaker 2: You just don't get comedy clubs, dude. First of all,
2:10:25
I'm doing five shows there. By the way, come on
2:10:27
out this weekend.
2:10:28
Speaker 1: Great club.
2:10:29
Speaker 2: Great club. One of my favorite weekends.
2:10:31
Speaker 1: Of last year. It's a fucking great room.
2:10:33
Speaker 2: But I was like, look, man, I sold out all
2:10:35
the shows last year. Hoping to do the same this year.
2:10:37
But I go, that is any– like I just know
2:10:41
the industry of stand-up comedy pretty well. And I was like,
2:10:43
anybody who you're saying would be selling more than this,
2:10:46
so what, selling out big theaters or selling out a
2:10:48
stadium or something like that, all the people who do
2:10:50
that have more followers than me. So, like, he's not
2:10:53
even right about the ratio of it or whatever.
2:10:55
Speaker 1: He doesn't understand numbers.
2:10:57
Speaker 2: But then I kind of, like, I grilled him on
2:10:59
it a bit more because, listen, I'm kind of like you. Like,
2:11:02
when you were talking about suing CNN back in the
2:11:04
day for slandering you, like, I'm never actually going to
2:11:06
do it. But I don't mind slandering.
2:11:09
Speaker 1: Saying it.
2:11:10
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? So I tagged Fox News
2:11:12
and I go, hey, Fox News, shouldn't you have some
2:11:13
evidence if you're going to make a claim like I'm
2:11:15
clearly bodied by foreign influence or whatever?
2:11:18
Speaker 1: Fox News actually said it?
2:11:20
Speaker 2: The guy works for Fox News.
2:11:21
Speaker 1: Was he on Fox News when he said it? No,
2:11:23
he said it on Twitter.
2:11:24
Speaker 2: But he's like a Fox News contributor or.
2:11:26
Speaker 1: Something like that. But I'm a UFC contributor. It wouldn't
2:11:29
be like the UFC.
2:11:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess that's true. So I don't know. Maybe
2:11:32
it would just be him in either way. I'm not
2:11:33
suing anyone. But I did want him to just– I go,
2:11:35
just admit you don't have any evidence for this. Like
2:11:38
just retract that.
2:11:39
Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing. I would agree that your account
2:11:42
is botted because you're a very controversial public figure. So
2:11:45
I'm sure all of them are. I'm sure my account
2:11:47
is botted too. Right. I'm sure Jamie's account is botted.
2:11:50
It definitely is. 100%, right? I'll show you the evidence.
2:11:55
Speaker 2: I think Jamie might be a bot himself.
2:11:56
Speaker 1: We're all botted, man. If you look at– we brought
2:12:00
this up a million times. But there was an FBI–
2:12:02
former FBI analyst who analyzed Twitter before the purchase– And
2:12:07
it was his take that as much as 80% might
2:12:10
be artificial.
2:12:12
Speaker 2: Now, this is back then. This is before Elon purchased it.
2:12:14
Speaker 1: I think they've done– they've taken some steps to try
2:12:18
to ensure one of the things is you have to–
2:12:20
you could go to the person's page. You could see
2:12:22
what country they're posting from. Yes. I like that a lot. Yeah,
2:12:25
because there's a lot of people that are like pro-America.
2:12:27
And you're like, hey, man, you're in Pakistan. What's going
2:12:30
on here? This is kind of kooky. So there's a
2:12:32
lot of that going on.
2:12:34
Speaker 2: I've had before where people go like– Dave, you always
2:12:37
say Israel's trying to lie us into war, but this
2:12:39
is America. We decide what war we're going to fight.
2:12:41
And then you click it.
2:12:42
Speaker 1: Israel. Israel. At least we're getting steps to know those. Listen,
2:12:48
if it wasn't for Elon Musk, we would be fucked.
2:12:51
I've said this before. I'll say it again. History will
2:12:54
go back and look at his purchasing Twitter and it.
2:12:59
it has changed the course of communication in this country
2:13:03
for the better. No, I know a lot of you thought,
2:13:06
Oh my God, the racism is up and all this
2:13:08
stuff is up. That's people. That's the internet. That is
2:13:11
an accurate representation representation of people. It's not good, but
2:13:16
it's also accurate. And the only way that's going to
2:13:18
change is, is if the other voices are more compelling,
2:13:22
and at least now they have an opportunity to do that.
2:13:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and you have to kind of engage in this, whether,
2:13:28
and I'm not saying you have to be on Twitter
2:13:30
or something like that, but I'm just saying, like, if
2:13:31
you want to, you know, I would love very much...
2:13:36
To get to a place where like you're like, hey,
2:13:38
let's all agree that we're not on board with the
2:13:41
bigotry stuff. And I mean this like whether it's against
2:13:43
white men or whether it's against black men or whether
2:13:46
it's against Jews or whether it's against Muslims or whatever.
2:13:48
And I see a whole lot of all of that.
2:13:50
And I'd love to move past that. I also would
2:13:54
like like I I wish there was a way that like.
2:13:59
Mark Levin and Tucker Carlson could have like a cool conversation.
2:14:02
You know what I mean? And not like, not like
2:14:04
be like, well, look.
2:14:05
Speaker 1: It's not Santa Claus and Jesus would come meet me
2:14:07
for dinner.
2:14:08
Speaker 2: Well, both would be nice. The latter is more likely,
2:14:11
I think too, at this point, you know, I had
2:14:13
a weird thing. I don't know if you saw this,
2:14:15
but Ben Shapiro had, he made this video about like,
2:14:21
about Pierce Morgan and, and like going at him over
2:14:24
having me on, on the show. And he went in
2:14:27
this whole thing and, So he says to me– or
2:14:32
he insults me a few times or whatever. And then
2:14:34
he goes– now, I can hear Dave Smith right now.
2:14:37
And his response to this is, debate me, bro. Which,
2:14:40
fair enough. That kind of is always my– I only
2:14:43
have one tool in my toolkit. Like, let's podcast about this.
2:14:47
I don't know. Like, this is what I do.
2:14:48
Speaker 1: I talk. He's not willing to do that?
2:14:50
Speaker 2: He goes, no, because you're like so– He said because
2:14:54
I won't– I don't debate such intellectually dishonest people or
2:14:57
something like that, which I thought was a weird criticism
2:14:59
of me. Like you could say I'm wrong, but I
2:15:01
do believe the shit I say.
2:15:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think you're in– I don't think in
2:15:05
any demonstration of any– I don't think there's a single
2:15:11
moment that I could point to that I think that
2:15:12
you've been intellectually dishonest. I think that is like factually incorrect. Well,
2:15:17
thank you. That is gaslighting. You are very honest. You're
2:15:22
a very honest person. Well, thank you.
2:15:23
Speaker 2: I try to be.
2:15:24
Speaker 1: No, you are. It's one of the things I love
2:15:26
about you. You're honest about your fuck-ups. You're honest about
2:15:30
what you're incorrect about and what bothered you about things
2:15:34
that you've said. You're very honest. So that's a silly
2:15:37
thing to say. That's total gaslighting.
2:15:39
Speaker 2: Well, I look at it like this, and I don't– Honestly,
2:15:43
like obviously if Ben Shapiro wanted to debate, I would
2:15:45
do it.
2:15:45
Speaker 1: But he debated everybody before all this shit went down. Well,
2:15:48
that's the thing.
2:15:48
Speaker 2: You go, dude, you can't say I'm beyond the pale
2:15:50
when you're known for debating 19-year-olds who are confused about
2:15:54
their gender. You know what I'm saying?
2:15:55
Speaker 1: Everybody.
2:15:56
Speaker 4: Yeah.
2:15:56
Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember this. And this to
2:15:58
me I actually think is very interesting. But I don't
2:16:00
know if you remember this. But on this show, Ben
2:16:02
was on years ago. Years before October 7th or anything
2:16:06
like that. But he was talking about Israel and his
2:16:08
defense for Israel. And you went, that's interesting. Would you
2:16:12
ever debate someone, you know, who's a critic of Israel?
2:16:15
And just generically, not about a specific person.
2:16:18
Speaker 1: And he goes, absolutely.
2:16:19
Speaker 2: I'd be happy to do that. And, you know, the
2:16:21
thing about guys like that is that, particularly with Ben Shapiro,
2:16:25
for the last two and a half years, his number
2:16:28
one issue, Israel, has been the number one topic of conversation.
2:16:31
And in that time, Israel's support has been bleeding. I mean,
2:16:35
just like... To a level you couldn't have imagined. You
2:16:37
couldn't have imagined two and a half years ago to go,
2:16:39
this will be a pro-Palestinian country. That was unthinkable. And
2:16:42
it's become that. And forget me. There's way better people
2:16:46
than me. But Ben Shapiro debated no one. He never
2:16:51
once had a conversation with a competent critic person.
2:16:54
Speaker 1: Of Israel.
2:16:56
Speaker 2: And that– listen, people saw that. People noticed that. And
2:17:01
so I kind of in a weird way feel like–
2:17:03
it's like, hey, dude, I don't care if you do
2:17:04
the debate with me or not. I wish– I don't
2:17:06
think we ever can. I wish there would be a
2:17:08
world where we could have a good faith conversation like
2:17:10
a guy with me and Ben Shapiro. But he refused
2:17:12
to do it with anyone. Anyway, so while you're smearing
2:17:16
everybody who's a critic of Israel, you're not willing to
2:17:18
like– listen, there are some people who don't debate. But
2:17:21
he branded himself as the debate guy.
2:17:24
Speaker 1: Right. If you don't like Dave, sit down with Scott Horton. Sure. Absolutely.
2:17:27
Speaker 2: Scott Horton is way smarter than me and knows way
2:17:28
more shit than me anyway. So talk to him about.
2:17:30
Speaker 1: It, dude. He's a better guy. I mean if you're
2:17:32
saying that this is the reason why you won't do it,
2:17:34
that sounds crazy because wouldn't you want to debate someone
2:17:37
who's intellectually dishonest because it would be so easy to
2:17:39
refute them with facts.
2:17:40
Speaker 5: Exactly.
2:17:41
Speaker 1: So come– It would be perfect. It's like dating– it's
2:17:43
like sparring a guy who knows fake kung fu. He
2:17:47
thinks he's got a death touch and you're Dustin Poirier.
2:17:49
You're like oh, yeah, bro. Lace the gloves up. Let's go.
2:17:51
Speaker 2: Well, that was kind of my thing with with the
2:17:53
Douglas Murray thing, too, where it was like at a
2:17:55
certain point, you're like, dude, you can't just say you're
2:17:57
an expert and I'm not an expert. Demonstrate that that
2:18:01
if that's the case, then it should be easy for
2:18:03
you to just chop me up in front of the
2:18:05
world right now.
2:18:06
Speaker 1: And some things that you had to correct him on. Yeah. Yeah.
2:18:09
The history of Israel. Yeah.
2:18:10
Speaker 2: We just got it wrong.
2:18:11
Speaker 1: And you could see like the tremor in his eyes like, oh, shit.
2:18:14
Like they don't want to give up that ground because
2:18:16
they're playing a very different game. And the game is
2:18:18
not let's be intellectually honest about what we think is
2:18:22
going on and what we think is good and bad
2:18:24
about what's going on versus I'm trying to win. And
2:18:27
one of the ways I try to win is by
2:18:29
I can appeal to authority. You're not an expert. You're
2:18:34
not a this. You're not a professor. You've never been there. Yeah,
2:18:38
that kind of shit. That is all like hack-ass fake
2:18:43
kung fu moves. You know, you're going to try on
2:18:46
Francis Ngannou. You know what I mean? Yeah.
2:18:48
Speaker 2: Good luck with that.
2:18:49
Speaker 1: Not that I'm comparing you to Francis Ngannou. That's very
2:18:52
disrespectful to Francis.
2:18:55
Speaker 2: Certainly not when it comes to fighting. You'd much rather
2:18:57
fight me.
2:18:57
Speaker 1: This is a Ronda Rousey card. They got Francis fighting
2:18:59
Phillip Lins. Phillip Lins, who's a light heavyweight in the UFC.
2:19:04
And the UFC cut him. And he's fighting the scariest
2:19:07
heavyweight who's ever walked the face of the earth. I mean,
2:19:09
props to him. Next to primetime Alistair Overeem. Primetime Alistair
2:19:12
Overeem when he was Ubering, I think, is even scarier.
2:19:15
I think because he was way skillful. He was terrifying
2:19:18
when he was on the sauce.
2:19:20
Speaker 2: Yes, but even.
2:19:22
Francis is natural, so he's scarier. Francis almost has a
2:19:26
thing where it just seems like you have to fight
2:19:30
a perfect fight against him. Which Stipe Miocic did in
2:19:33
his first fight.
2:19:34
Speaker 1: He took a lot of shots. That's the thing about Stipe.
2:19:37
Stipe could take a shot.
2:19:39
Speaker 2: And you would see he would jab him and he'd
2:19:41
be rocked, but he'd still get the takedown.
2:19:43
Speaker 1: He beat him with skill, strategy... experience everything but in
2:19:48
the second one DC said it best he goes a
2:19:50
patient Francis is a fucking terrifying thing.
2:19:53
Speaker 2: Dude my favorite uh my favorite commentary ever in a
2:19:56
fight was uh when when DC said it was just
2:19:59
so hilarious to me it was so real like he
2:20:01
just meant it but it was when when Francis and
2:20:03
Ganu fought uh fought uh Gan and he grappled a
2:20:07
little bit in that fight which we had never seen
2:20:08
him do uh before but there was one point where
2:20:11
there he was on the ground and And he like
2:20:13
took his back or something like that. Like he passed
2:20:15
his guard or he took his back or something like that.
2:20:17
And DC just goes, oh, my God, he's doing jujitsu now.
2:20:22
It was like he was speaking of a robot who
2:20:24
just learned how to feel feelings.
2:20:25
Speaker 1: He goes, oh, my God, it's learning. It's advancing. This
2:20:29
is so terrifying. A guy that's that much of a
2:20:32
destroyer that learns how to take backs and strangle people
2:20:34
to control you from the back and blast you unconscious
2:20:37
like he did with that dude in the PFL in
2:20:39
his last fight. Took his back and just blasted him
2:20:42
into the netherworld.
2:20:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's scary.
2:20:44
Speaker 1: He's the scariest guy that's ever fought in the UFC.
2:20:47
Speaker 2: Props to that dude for taking the fight.
2:20:48
Speaker 1: Scariest natural clean guy. I should say that. Fair enough.
2:20:52
Fair enough. Because we only got a couple Alistair Overeem
2:20:55
fights where he was Overeem. The big one being Brock Lesnar.
2:20:58
That was the big one.
2:20:59
Speaker 2: And, of course, the other fight on that card that
2:21:01
they added, which is huge, is the Nate Diaz.
2:21:03
Speaker 1: Well, here was my point.
2:21:04
Speaker 2: If Nate Diaz is fighting, I'm paying whatever you're charging.
2:21:08
I'm going to be wherever it is.
2:21:10
Speaker 1: And it's Mike Perry. Great fight. Bad motherfucker. That's a
2:21:13
great fight. But my point is they also have Roe
2:21:16
Bellis to Spain who's on that card. who's a 6'7
2:21:20
Cuban Taekwondo expert, who's a heavyweight, who's a knockout artist. Like,
2:21:25
why did they have him? He's fighting Junior Dos Santos.
2:21:29
And Junior Dos Santos is– he's had a– he was
2:21:32
an all-time great. But he had a long career and
2:21:35
he's had some bad knockouts. Some wars too. Bad wars.
2:21:38
The wars with Cain Velasquez took years off his life.
2:21:40
The war with Stipe. It was almost criminal that they
2:21:43
didn't stop both of those fights. Well, they were definitely
2:21:46
horrible and terrible to watch. But the point is Robles
2:21:50
is huge. He's a real heavyweight. He's a big giant
2:21:53
knockout artist. Like that would have been an interesting fight
2:21:55
versus Francis. Big, super tall guy that's hard to hit. Yeah.
2:21:59
And if it just is a striking fight, the problem
2:22:02
with Robel is he got exposed in his last UFC
2:22:05
fight on the ground. He got beat up. His ground
2:22:07
game's not that good. Could have gotten better. But on
2:22:10
the feet, that's a little bit more interesting to me
2:22:12
than Phillip. Although, Phillip's a skillful fighter. You know, he's
2:22:16
used to fighting at light heavyweight. The UFC cuts him.
2:22:19
And now, all of a sudden, he's fighting against Francis. Yeah,
2:22:24
that's a little bit of a... A mismatch.
2:22:26
Speaker 2: But, hey, I mean, you know, we've seen crazy shit
2:22:28
happen in MMA before.
2:22:30
Speaker 1: Felipe. I think it's pronounced Felipe. Felipe Lins. But he's
2:22:33
a good fighter. I mean, it's not a bad fight
2:22:37
in that sense. But it's like you're going up against
2:22:39
a guy with a chip on his shoulder that they're
2:22:41
paying $ 20 million. He's the lineal. I don't know what
2:22:43
they're paying him. I'm just guessing. But he's the lineal
2:22:46
heavyweight champion of the world. The real one. Like, if
2:22:48
you really, like, plot it out, no one beat him
2:22:50
for the title, that's a crazy fight. It's like that's
2:22:55
how shallow the heavyweight division is outside of the UFC.
2:22:59
There's so few fights for you to get Francis for.
2:23:03
There's so few fights in the UFC. I mean, the
2:23:07
UFC's heavyweight division is a real mess.
2:23:10
Speaker 2: It's very hard to find gigantic men who are excellent fighters,
2:23:13
I guess.
2:23:13
Speaker 1: There's a lot in Russia, okay? There's guys that are
2:23:16
fighting in other countries that are really good that are
2:23:19
coming up. It's just like it's hard to get them
2:23:21
over here. There's Josh Hokut. He's a bad motherfucker. That
2:23:24
wrestler dude who's crazy, who has these crazy speeches after
2:23:27
the fight, puts on an American flag bandana. And he said,
2:23:30
Brittany Griner has a dick. Brittany Griner's a man. I
2:23:35
forget what he said. But he's just nuts. But he's
2:23:38
also like really smart about marketing.
2:23:39
Speaker 2: Who's the other guy? You talked about him several times.
2:23:41
He's the Olympic wrestler.
2:23:44
Speaker 1: Oh, Gabe. Yeah, Gabe Stevenson. Yeah, he's not in yet, though.
2:23:49
I had him on the podcast. He's not in the
2:23:51
UFC yet. Yeah, but he's in the UFC. When he's
2:23:52
in the UFC, he's going to be a fucking problem.
2:23:56
Olympic gold medalist, elite wrestler, moves like a cat, 250 pounds, young,
2:24:03
super dedicated, and just recently learned striking and is fucking
2:24:07
people up with his hands.
2:24:08
Speaker 4: Yeah.
2:24:09
Speaker 2: And is picking it up quite quickly.
2:24:10
Speaker 1: And is a Jon Jones protege. So he's been being
2:24:14
mentored by the GOAT and absorbing his mindset. And that
2:24:20
guy's helping him. He's investing his time into training him.
2:24:24
But if you're a young guy, you know what a
2:24:26
fucking boost of confidence, the greatest of all time, says
2:24:29
you're going to be the man? You're going to be
2:24:31
the fucking man. You just stick with this plan and
2:24:33
they're bringing him up the right way. He fought in
2:24:35
dirty boxing. He fought some small MMA organizations. He's just
2:24:39
like building up experience.
2:24:41
Speaker 3: Yeah.
2:24:41
Speaker 2: And there's not, there's never been a lot of, but
2:24:46
there's not really right now in heavyweight landscape. There isn't
2:24:50
really like a Frank Mir or, uh, um, what's his name? Um,
2:24:56
Minotaur no Gara no Gara where there used to be
2:24:59
these like guys who were like kind of known for
2:25:01
fighting off their back You know what? I mean like
2:25:03
most heavyweights don't really like fighting off their back these
2:25:07
even the guys who are really good at jiu-jitsu I
2:25:08
also think just in general fighting off your back is
2:25:10
a lot harder than it used.
2:25:11
Speaker 1: To be Fabricio for doom was the greatest. Yes.
2:25:13
Speaker 2: Yes, that's a great He was incredible stat. Um, but
2:25:16
there aren't really that many guys like that a lot
2:25:18
of these guys you take them down They're in trouble.
2:25:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, and when you got a guy like gable, guess
2:25:23
what bitch I You're going to get taken down, and
2:25:26
there's not a fucking thing you can do about it.
2:25:29
Speaker 2: That is a next level wrestler. I just saw one
2:25:32
of his recent fights where he's finishing a double leg fight.
2:25:36
Before he realized he knocked the guy out, it seemed like.
2:25:38
Speaker 1: He KO's him with a left hook and he's so
2:25:41
fast that as the guy's collapsing on the way down,
2:25:44
he shoots a double, connects, takes him to the ground
2:25:46
while he's unconscious. So before the guy has a chance
2:25:49
to drop, that's how fast he is. He's already on him,
2:25:52
taking him down and pounds him out while he's already unconscious.
2:25:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was scary.
2:25:57
Speaker 1: That guy's a problem. He's a problem. And that's an
2:25:59
American heavyweight motherfucker. We need one of those. We need
2:26:02
some American champions. We're down. Get him in the White House. Yeah.
2:26:06
I mean, are there any American champions right now? Who
2:26:09
are the American champions? Mackenzie Dern is the strawweight champion,
2:26:14
so she's technically an American, although her dad is a
2:26:18
very famous Brazilian legend. Okay. Yeah. Megaton Diaz is her dad,
2:26:24
and she was a Brazilian jiu-jitsu champion. But she is American,
2:26:29
so she's a champion. Other than that, who?
2:26:33
Speaker 2: Sean Strickland's fighting for the title.
2:26:36
Speaker 1: Kayla Harrison. That's right. So it's only women that are
2:26:40
the Americans. Yeah. Look at that. Boy, you're going to
2:26:43
see a lot of those dudes with those beards. As
2:26:46
they keep coming over here, you're going to see a lot.
2:26:48
Joshua Vann is an American. That's right. You're going to
2:26:52
see a lot of those dudes. That's a caveat, though,
2:26:54
the Joshua Vann. No disrespect for Joshua because I think
2:26:57
he's an awesome fighter, but he won that fight. We've
2:26:59
got to have a rematch on that one. That was
2:27:00
a freak injury. I mean, he fell and dislocated his
2:27:04
arm it's a complete freak injury and Pantoja still hasn't
2:27:08
fully recovered from that so it was pretty bad whatever
2:27:10
the fuck they said his shoulder dislocated and his elbow yeah.
2:27:15
Speaker 2: I remember hearing that afterward it looked like it was
2:27:17
just his elbow.
2:27:18
Speaker 1: But they said the doctor said it was his shoulder
2:27:21
and so what the thing about the elbow is the
2:27:24
elbow is a less complicated joint right and so when
2:27:27
the elbow gets dislocated if someone just pulls on it
2:27:31
it can pop back into place So like saying that
2:27:33
there's– as long as they know what they're doing, right?
2:27:35
Because you don't want to do it like Yuri Prohaska's
2:27:38
team did and rip his shoulder. apart and he needed surgery.
2:27:41
He probably needed surgery anyway if it was dislocating like that.
2:27:44
It was probably loose. But the point is that like
2:27:47
his elbow might have popped back into place by the
2:27:49
time they brought him backstage and that's when they realized
2:27:52
his shoulder was fucked because his shoulder probably hurt more
2:27:54
even than his elbow. Right, right, right.
2:27:57
Speaker 2: That was unfortunate because that was a real interesting fight.
2:27:59
Speaker 1: Shoulders dislocate a lot. And sometimes people dislocate their shoulders
2:28:04
and don't even realize they do. Oh, really? Apparently, according
2:28:08
to this orthopedic surgeon that I went to back in
2:28:11
the day before I realized that stem cells could fix it,
2:28:14
this guy was convincing me that I had to have surgery.
2:28:17
And one of the things he said, do you know
2:28:18
that your shoulder has been dislocated? And I said, it has?
2:28:21
He goes, you didn't know? I go, no. He goes,
2:28:23
how many times have you hurt your shoulder? I go,
2:28:25
how much time you got? Sit down and talk about
2:28:28
how many times I've been comorbid. How many times I've
2:28:31
been fucking arm blocked. How many times I've been caught
2:28:33
in a triangle. How many times, you know, posting on
2:28:35
the ground. I've jostled my shoulder. The good news is
2:28:38
there have been no fracture or ligament injury. That's great. Oh,
2:28:42
that's Bahampa said that. So from that, we have great
2:28:45
expectations for his return. But the exact time frame is
2:28:47
still unknown. Still needs a lot of physiotherapy. Start moving
2:28:50
his arm. Wow, then he can go back to light
2:28:52
training and then hard training. Bro, we got to get
2:28:54
that guy down to fucking the CPI in, you know,
2:29:00
the cellular performance institute that the UFC uses. Get that
2:29:03
dude down to Tijuana.
2:29:05
Speaker 2: I'm worried about the new model for the UFC.
2:29:08
Speaker 1: The Paramount model?
2:29:09
Speaker 2: I'm worried about the Warren Aran and the new UFC model.
2:29:12
This is what keeps me up at night.
2:29:13
Speaker 1: I get it. So what are you worried about with
2:29:15
the new UFC model? I'm no genius.
2:29:19
Speaker 2: Um, but it seems to me like I'm a hardcore
2:29:21
fan of the UFC.
2:29:23
Speaker 4: Right.
2:29:23
Speaker 2: So I was, uh, you know, I order every pay-per-view.
2:29:27
Speaker 1: Right.
2:29:27
Speaker 2: Everyone, you know, I, and, and so every, any Saturday,
2:29:30
if I'm on the road in my green room, we're
2:29:32
watching the UFC. If I'm not on the road, I'm
2:29:35
either at home watching it or I'm trying to go
2:29:36
to the events in town.
2:29:38
Speaker 1: Right.
2:29:38
Speaker 2: So then, uh, it's like, okay, ESPN is, is over. Uh,
2:29:44
we're not doing that anymore. So then they go, we're
2:29:45
switching to Paramount. Now, I already had Paramount because, like,
2:29:48
my kids like some shows on Paramount.
2:29:50
Speaker 1: Yep. So now. Landman. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I watch Landman.
2:29:53
Great show.
2:29:55
Speaker 2: So, you know, so, like, I have Paramount Plus. I'm like, oh, okay, well,
2:29:57
that's easy enough. And then I'm like, so wait a minute.
2:30:00
Speaker 1: Hold on.
2:30:00
Speaker 2: So you tell me I just get everyone for free now?
2:30:03
I just don't have to order pay-per-views anymore? And there's
2:30:05
just something about that. Now, I'm not saying whether this
2:30:09
is Paramount's mistake or the UFC's mistake or whatever, but just, like,
2:30:11
the basics of business to me go, So you just
2:30:14
had a loyal customer who's very happy to pay for
2:30:19
every pay-per-view. And I'm just not now. Now, I understand
2:30:23
it's because Paramount gave them a whole bunch of money.
2:30:26
But on some level, I go, number one, I go,
2:30:28
but how is this good for business if the customer
2:30:31
no longer has to pay for a thing that I
2:30:33
was happily paying for?
2:30:35
Speaker 1: Let me correct you. Okay, sure. First of all, Paramount.
2:30:40
The idea of doing this and investing $ 7 billion into
2:30:44
the UFC over the next few years, the positive that
2:30:48
they're going to get from that with loyal new customers
2:30:51
is massive.
2:30:53
Speaker 2: So it's introducing it to a whole new audience.
2:30:55
Speaker 1: If you're a loyal pay-per-view buyer, if you spend– what
2:31:00
is it, $ 70 for a pay-per-view? I think something like that.
2:31:02
So $ 70 for this big-time pay-per-view card. Now you get
2:31:06
it for free. You just have to pay for Paramount
2:31:09
Plus every month for the year. You're saving so much money.
2:31:11
Huge amount of money, yeah. So the amount of new
2:31:13
people that are going to go, oh, this is awesome.
2:31:16
I don't have to pay for pay-per-view anymore. I pay
2:31:19
for Paramount Plus and I get all these awesome shows
2:31:21
too because Paramount Plus has a ton of great fucking shows.
2:31:24
No question.
2:31:24
Speaker 2: It's a great deal for the consumer.
2:31:26
Speaker 1: So you get roped in through that and then you
2:31:29
go looking around on Paramount Plus and you stay a
2:31:31
loyal subscriber. They have all these years with this new
2:31:35
influx of viewers from the UFC deal to build up
2:31:38
more of a library, more shows. It's huge for business.
2:31:42
Speaker 2: Okay, fair enough.
2:31:42
Speaker 1: They can take their app from where it is now
2:31:45
and take their streaming model from where it is now.
2:31:47
and quadruple it over the next X amount of years.
2:31:50
Speaker 2: So for them, they're bringing in the whole UFC audience.
2:31:53
Speaker 1: And how many people would look at a pay-per-view card? Look,
2:31:56
I would buy every one of them. Even when I
2:31:59
was working for the UFC, I would go on ESPN
2:32:02
Plus and.
2:32:03
Speaker 2: I would buy them, even though I was there.
2:32:04
Speaker 1: I was like, I want to be able to watch
2:32:06
it in the gym when I get home. I'm going
2:32:07
to buy it. And so you've got all these people
2:32:12
that were looking at those cards that were like, this one,
2:32:15
I don't know. I don't know if that's worth $ 70.
2:32:19
If you're on a budget and you're looking at this one,
2:32:21
you're like, who's fighting? Nah, I'm going to pass on
2:32:24
this one. I'll watch it a couple weeks on ESPN +.
2:32:27
Because you could just wait a few weeks. I don't
2:32:30
know how long the time frame is. But you could
2:32:31
wait a few weeks and you could watch it. You
2:32:33
don't have to do that anymore. It's $ 10 a month.
2:32:36
What is Paramount Plus a month? How much does it cost?
2:32:37
Speaker 3: I think they upped it to maybe $ 12 or $ 13,
2:32:39
but I'm not sure.
2:32:40
Speaker 1: Let's find out so we're accurate. But you're saving so
2:32:44
much money.
2:32:45
Speaker 2: But also on ESPN, they charged you something like that too.
2:32:48
Like you had to pay an ESPN fee and then
2:32:51
you had to pay for each individual pay-per-view. So no, listen,
2:32:54
I'm saving a lot of money on this.
2:32:55
Speaker 1: Okay, $ 13. 99 a month or $ 139 a year for the
2:32:56
ad-free premium plan, which includes Showtime. New and former subscribers
2:33:04
can currently get any monthly plan for $ 2. 99 a month
2:33:07
for the first two months. So for a new subscriber,
2:33:11
you could try it out for two months for $ 2. 99
2:33:14
a month and watch every UFC for $ 2. 99 a month
2:33:17
for two months. It's fucking worth it. And then you're
2:33:19
going to get this huge influx of people that, you know,
2:33:23
if you're on a budget, you're not going to subscribe
2:33:25
to Paramount +. You already got Netflix. Netflix costs X
2:33:28
amount of money. Maybe you got HBO Max. That's X
2:33:31
amount of money. I can't afford Paramount too. I don't
2:33:34
want to pay another $ 10 a month or $ 14 a month.
2:33:37
Now you just– it's easy. Yeah. No pay-per-views. Yeah.
2:33:42
Speaker 2: They made a lot of wives of hardcore fans happy.
2:33:44
I'm sure for that. I don't have to buy these
2:33:47
pay-per-views anymore. Yeah, they get the Paramount shows and they
2:33:50
don't have to do that.
2:33:51
Speaker 1: All right.
2:33:51
Speaker 2: Fair enough. I guess it's just in some ways I
2:33:54
guess– and I don't really have much of a mind
2:33:56
for business. But in some ways there's just a thing
2:33:58
where it's like we've always done it this way. Now
2:34:01
we're doing it a whole new way.
2:34:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's been on streaming for the last few years. Yeah,
2:34:05
that's true. So it's always been on an app anyway.
2:34:07
And then Paramount, you could get it on Apple TV.
2:34:10
You can get it on Android TV. You can get
2:34:12
it on all these different things. It's like there's no
2:34:14
reason to not have it.
2:34:15
Speaker 2: It's easy.
2:34:16
Speaker 1: It's just great for– as a business move for Paramount,
2:34:20
it was a smart fucking move. Because you get this
2:34:23
built-in hardcore fan base. Now, have some of the cards
2:34:26
been lackluster? Yes. But guess what? That has always been
2:34:30
the case.
2:34:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's just a matter of time.
2:34:32
Speaker 1: Go actually watch Rose Namajunas versus Carla Esparza. There's been
2:34:37
some fights back in the day that just weren't great.
2:34:40
And there's been cards that, even though they look good
2:34:43
on paper... In reality, they weren't so fun.
2:34:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I also– I'm with you because I remember
2:34:49
you used to say this back in the day all
2:34:51
the time. But I am like a purist fan in
2:34:54
MMA in the sense that like all of that is
2:34:56
like I don't care. Like you feel like, oh, it's boring.
2:34:59
You're like it's the most exciting sport in the world
2:35:01
on its worst day. Even in a fight that's a
2:35:03
bad fight because if you remember the Frank Mir Crow Cop.
2:35:07
There's a good example of this where it was just
2:35:09
a boring fight the entire fight. And then there's a
2:35:11
spectacular knockout at the end of it. And even if
2:35:13
that doesn't end up happening, you're always watching like that
2:35:15
could happen at any moment.
2:35:17
Speaker 1: It always can happen.
2:35:19
Speaker 2: I also am with you. I believe in like– I
2:35:21
don't believe in stand-ups anymore. I don't think anyone should
2:35:23
ever be stood up. I don't think you should be
2:35:25
separated for stalemate or whatever. It's like if someone puts
2:35:28
you in that position, then you've got to get out
2:35:29
of it.
2:35:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, you've got to get up. If they're not doing
2:35:31
enough on the top, that's silly. Sean O'Malley explains why
2:35:35
piracy led to the UFC's massive Paramount deal. Oh, interesting.
2:35:38
Speaker 3: There's a lot of people that will pay for it
2:35:40
every week, but there's a lot of people that won't.
2:35:42
Speaker 1: That makes sense. They're streaming it illegally. That makes sense.
2:35:45
I knew there was a lot of that because there
2:35:47
were sites that you could go to and people would
2:35:49
openly talk about it. You can go to it and
2:35:51
just watch the pay-per-view. It's a good move, dude. It's
2:35:54
a good move for the business. It's just like they
2:35:57
just need a few banger cards to make people forget
2:36:00
about the stale ones.
2:36:02
Speaker 2: That will happen.
2:36:03
Speaker 1: It's inevitable. You're going to have stale cards. I'm concerned
2:36:06
about the White House fight. I'm concerned about it not
2:36:09
just from a security standpoint. I'm concerned about it because
2:36:12
it's outside. It's June, and it's in Washington, D.C. If
2:36:16
it's hot out, and it could very well be, like,
2:36:18
what's the average temperature? I looked this up the other day.
2:36:21
Speaker 3: Average 67% humidity in last year, or 2024 is 100
2:36:25
degrees on June 14th.
2:36:28
Speaker 1: Okay. That's tough. Okay.
2:36:29
Speaker 3: And I think it's supposed to be at noon also.
2:36:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an issue. Okay, okay, okay. That's a fucking
2:36:34
big problem, dude. That's a big problem. You are going
2:36:37
to radically affect their performance if you make people fight
2:36:40
in 100-degree temperature. with 67% humidity outside. You're also gonna
2:36:45
radically affect my ability to do commentary, okay? My fucking
2:36:50
head doesn't have any hair. The top of my head
2:36:52
is gonna be beet red. I'm gonna have to put
2:36:54
some toxic sunscreen on it. You're gonna see me with
2:36:57
that white zinc powder that the surfers use on their nose.
2:37:00
It'll be all over the, I'll make like fake hair.
2:37:02
With like white zinc. My head's going to get cooked.
2:37:05
That is an issue.
2:37:06
Speaker 3: 80% chance of thunderstorms with highs in the mid 80s.
2:37:09
Speaker 1: Okay. Are they building a tent? Is this outside outside?
2:37:13
Or is it outside in a tent? Are they going
2:37:14
to have like fans blowing cold air on us? You
2:37:17
know how much DC is going to complain? That fucking dude.
2:37:20
He's going to be right next to me. His shirt's
2:37:22
going to be soaked.
2:37:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a bit of an issue.
2:37:25
Speaker 1: You won't be able to tell with mine because I
2:37:26
always wear black anyway. But everybody with a white shirt
2:37:29
or a blue. shirt, if Anik has a light blue
2:37:32
shirt on, his pits are going to be fucking filled
2:37:34
up with sweat. It's going to be ridiculous.
2:37:36
Speaker 2: That also like really legitimately changes the actual fight itself.
2:37:39
Speaker 1: 100%. Isn't that like the rendering of it? Okay. So
2:37:44
I don't see any AC there, bro. How are you
2:37:46
going to get AC on those people? What is that
2:37:48
going to be like? That sounds fucking insane. To do
2:37:51
that in June just because that's a fun time to
2:37:53
do it? I mean, if I was Justin Gaethje or
2:37:57
I was Ilya Toporia, if I was Justin Gaethje, I mean,
2:38:00
first of all, he has to take the fight. It's
2:38:02
a historic fight. It's at the White House. He's a
2:38:05
true red-blooded American. He wants to win the title at
2:38:08
the White House. Come on. You have to do it.
2:38:10
But he's 37 years old. He's had a long career,
2:38:15
and he's fighting– maybe the most lethal guy he's ever faced.
2:38:20
The one guy out of all the guys he's faced
2:38:22
that can shut the fucking lights out with one shot
2:38:26
every time. His last three fights is the craziest resume
2:38:30
in the history of the sport. Knocks out Alexander Volkanovsky,
2:38:35
knocks out Max Holloway, knocks out Charles Oliveira. Two at featherweight,
2:38:40
one at lightweight. All of them level. I wouldn't even say.
2:38:45
Speaker 2: Well, I guess it's debatable, but certainly you could make
2:38:48
an argument the two best featherweights of all time.
2:38:50
Speaker 1: Yes.
2:38:51
Speaker 2: And one of the greatest lightweights of all time. And
2:38:54
by the way, I know MMA math is never perfect,
2:38:57
but you look at what Oliveira just did to Max Holloway.
2:38:59
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:39:00
Speaker 2: Who I love. He's one of my favorite fighters of
2:39:01
all time.
2:39:02
Speaker 1: Love Max.
2:39:02
Speaker 2: You look at what Charles Oliveira just did to Max Holloway.
2:39:05
And then you think about the way Ilya Teporia handled him.
2:39:09
Flatlined him in the first round.
2:39:10
Speaker 1: And not.
2:39:11
Speaker 2: What was, to me, almost as impressive as the knockout
2:39:16
was handling him on the ground.
2:39:19
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:39:19
Speaker 2: Passed his guard. He tried to take him down. Think
2:39:22
about the way he got one of those body locks
2:39:24
and tried to take him down. Think about how helpless
2:39:26
Max Holloway was for that. How helpless a whole bunch
2:39:28
of guys we've seen are when he gets his hands
2:39:30
around you. And Ilya Teporia, he tried to do that.
2:39:32
He ends up on top and passes his guard right away. Also,
2:39:35
he ate a really clean elbow early in that fight
2:39:39
and just was like, nothing like i shook it off.
2:39:42
Speaker 1: Like it was nothing he's he's a special talent so
2:39:45
but then again when you are dealing with special talents
2:39:49
and great great fighters like justin who this is probably
2:39:53
his last opportunity to fight for the title i want
2:39:56
that under the perfect conditions i want that to be
2:39:58
in an arena where it's 72 degrees and air conditioned
2:40:01
i i don't want it to be outside I don't
2:40:03
want there to be any additional stress or distractions because
2:40:07
you're warming up at the White House. Like, what do
2:40:09
you have, tents with mats on them? And these guys
2:40:12
are going to be slipping around in puddles of sweat.
2:40:14
Speaker 2: Shadowboxing in the situation room before you come out.
2:40:16
Speaker 1: Who's going to slip on sweat and blow their ACL out?
2:40:20
You know, I mean, if you ever done striking on
2:40:22
mats when a bunch of dudes have been training, like
2:40:25
in a class, it's so fucking slippery, man. If it's
2:40:29
that hot, it's going to, unless they have it. these
2:40:33
mats and where they're getting set up in air conditioned
2:40:35
building somewhere, unless they have a facility. Yeah. Maybe they
2:40:38
can do that. I hope they think that through. I
2:40:41
hope they think that through. I hope they prepare it.
2:40:43
It's just, I don't like, I like the idea that
2:40:47
it's like this big celebration of the UFC, that the
2:40:51
president loves the UFC so much. He wants to do
2:40:53
it at the white house. But in practice, I don't
2:40:55
like it at all because you've got two world titles
2:40:58
and You've got the interim heavyweight world title, and then
2:41:02
you've got this world title with Justin and Ilya at 55.
2:41:06
I don't like it. I want those to be at
2:41:09
the T-Mobile. I want those to be at the Madison
2:41:11
Square Garden Arena. I want those to be somewhere dope.
2:41:15
The TD Garden in Boston. Put it in a fucking
2:41:18
real arena where it's air-conditioned, damn it. These are amazing fights.
2:41:23
I don't want anybody fighting when it's 100 degrees outside.
2:41:26
That's crazy.
2:41:26
Speaker 2: Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but also I would
2:41:29
think it's you're going to get sweaty so quick in
2:41:32
weather like that. And that is a big deal for
2:41:35
like grappling and stuff like that. I mean, that's a
2:41:37
huge advantage if you're trying to not get grappled by someone.
2:41:40
Speaker 1: Here's another factor. These are people that just were radically
2:41:45
dehydrated 24 hours ago. And then you're asking them to
2:41:48
compete in a sauna. You're basically asking them to fight
2:41:52
in a sauna.
2:41:53
Speaker 2: That is still so crazy to me that there's not
2:41:56
a way that we can just get two guys who
2:41:59
weigh 180 pounds to fight at 180 pounds and instead
2:42:04
we have to have two guys who weigh 180 pounds
2:42:07
cut down to 150 pounds and then rehydrate up to
2:42:10
180 pounds to fight at 180 pounds.
2:42:13
Speaker 1: And weaken themselves like radically weaken themselves I see those
2:42:16
guys the day they weigh in the worst ever that
2:42:20
I ever saw was Travis Luter so Travis.
2:42:23
Speaker 2: Luter against Anderson Silva I remember.
2:42:25
Speaker 1: He missed weight but I was backstage for all of
2:42:27
it right So this was back when the weigh-ins were
2:42:29
the time of the actual weigh-ins. It wasn't the ceremonial weigh-in.
2:42:33
Like now they give them more time. You can weigh
2:42:35
in in the morning. And then by the ceremonial weigh-in,
2:42:37
which is usually 5 p.m., usually these guys have significantly rehydrated.
2:42:41
They do it slowly, but they have a process to it.
2:42:44
But Travis missed weight. And so I was backstage while
2:42:47
they gave him X amount of time to make the weight. And, dude,
2:42:51
he couldn't walk. He was shuffling, shuffling. Like he couldn't
2:42:55
pick his legs up. His lips were cracked. His face
2:42:58
was dry. He looked like he was going to die.
2:43:00
He looked like a guy who had been shipwrecked, you know,
2:43:04
and like lost at sea and just drinking his own
2:43:06
piss for a week. And they finally rescued him. That's
2:43:08
what it looked like. Right.
2:43:10
Speaker 2: He was dying, I guess.
2:43:11
Speaker 1: Right. I mean, that is what you're looking at. And
2:43:13
then 24 hours later, he has to fight the greatest
2:43:15
middleweight of all time. He has to fight Anderson motherfucking
2:43:18
Silva in his prime. And I did. I did.
2:43:22
Speaker 2: For that being the story, did remarkably well. He got
2:43:26
viciously elbowed in the triangle.
2:43:30
Speaker 1: That would not have happened if Travis wasn't compromised. Travis
2:43:33
was a real problem back then. He was one of
2:43:35
the best jiu-jitsu guys to ever compete in MMA.
2:43:38
Speaker 2: And he was stylistically kind of like the best shot
2:43:41
against Anderson Silva at that time. Because Anderson Silva just
2:43:44
looked untouchable. And he got him down. He got him
2:43:46
into good positions a few times.
2:43:48
Speaker 1: Even though he was fucked from the weight cut. But
2:43:50
the thing was, He never made the weight. So even
2:43:53
if he beat him, he wouldn't have got the title.
2:43:55
The whole thing was fucked. Yeah. But it's like I've
2:43:57
advocated for there's a solution. One of them is multiple
2:44:00
weight classes that are additional to what we have. Have
2:44:04
one at least every 10 pounds and it probably should
2:44:07
be more. And a lot of people push back against that.
2:44:08
But listen. 10 pounds for an elite athlete is a
2:44:12
big fucking deal. 20 pounds is crazy. So when you
2:44:16
go like 85 to 205, that's crazy. That's too much weight.
2:44:20
It's too much of a gap. You could have multiple
2:44:23
champions in between those weight classes and it's just better
2:44:26
for the sport overall. You've got more champions, you've got
2:44:29
more champion versus champion matchups you can make.
2:44:31
Speaker 2: Well, there's it also, first of all, it's very unhealthy
2:44:34
and dangerous and that's the biggest issue. But then it
2:44:37
also makes it a thing where it's like, Now there's
2:44:41
two factors. It's not just who's the best fighter. It's
2:44:44
also who's the best at dehydrating themselves, losing a ton
2:44:48
of weight and rehydrating themselves. And also I think like
2:44:51
I've heard GSP say before that like some people are
2:44:55
just naturally better at that. Some people just fluctuate in
2:44:57
weight more. Some people can lose a lot of weight
2:44:59
and then gain it all back the other day. And
2:45:01
he used to always say, I just can't do that.
2:45:03
Like I'm not a guy who can do that. But
2:45:05
I think all of us, we just want to see
2:45:06
who the best fighter is. We don't care about who's
2:45:08
the best at dehydrating.
2:45:09
Speaker 1: Anything that hampers your ability should be removed from the equation,
2:45:14
especially if it's something like this. But there's a solution.
2:45:16
First of all, there's a real silliness to the MMA
2:45:19
weight classes. And when I say silliness, our names that
2:45:23
we use have been owned by boxing for more than
2:45:27
100 years. And the names that we use are for
2:45:30
different weight classes than boxing uses. That's dumb. That is
2:45:34
dumb as shit. Like if you want to have a
2:45:37
170-pound champion, fantastic. But don't call it a welterweight because
2:45:41
welterweight is 147. It's been 147 for over 100 fucking years.
2:45:46
The fact that you have a 147 champion and you
2:45:49
call that– or 145 champion, you call that a featherweight.
2:45:53
Featherweight is 126. That's what it's been in boxing forever.
2:45:57
Lightweight has always been 135. That's what Julio Cesar Chavez
2:46:01
was the champ of. 135. Lightweight is 155 in the UFC?
2:46:07
Come up with your own names. Why do we still
2:46:10
have these stupid names?
2:46:10
Speaker 2: I never thought about that. It's a good point.
2:46:12
Speaker 1: They attached these names to it when they first started
2:46:14
developing weight classes because it used to just be one
2:46:17
weight class.
2:46:18
Speaker 2: Another one on this.
2:46:19
Speaker 1: Why?
2:46:20
Speaker 2: And I think you've mentioned this before. Why am I
2:46:22
not getting the leg reach?
2:46:24
Speaker 1: They do that sometimes. Do they? Yeah, they do that.
2:46:26
Speaker 2: Because I've seen like– but on the regular tail of
2:46:28
the tape, it will still just be reach.
2:46:30
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:46:31
Speaker 2: But in this– because that actually for MMA, that's such
2:46:35
a huge deal.
2:46:36
Speaker 1: Sure.
2:46:36
Speaker 2: Like it's such a huge– because like if you're– Because
2:46:38
you're kicking.
2:46:38
Speaker 3: Yeah.
2:46:38
Speaker 2: If you're in kicking range of me, but you know
2:46:41
what I mean? But you can't touch me. Your jab
2:46:43
doesn't matter as much as in boxing.
2:46:45
Speaker 1: Right. And some guys, they have really long legs for
2:46:48
their torso. My friend Larry, my friend Larry Jones from
2:46:52
my Taekwondo days, he had this short torso. What is this?
2:46:56
Speaker 3: Aldo's leg reaches longer than Stipe's.
2:46:59
Speaker 1: Whoa, that's crazy. Is that right? That's crazy. Stipe just
2:47:02
has a way longer torso? That's nuts. Oh, wow. That's crazy. Well,
2:47:09
Aldo was such a good kicker. It's probably part of
2:47:11
the reason why. My friend Larry had this short torso,
2:47:14
like really short, but he was like six three and
2:47:16
he was all legs and he was this insane kicker
2:47:19
he was like a freak like he was made in
2:47:21
a lab and when guys would fight him like you'd
2:47:23
see guys in tournaments fight him they'd be like what
2:47:25
the fuck am i gonna do with this because his
2:47:27
reach was so nuts and he was so fast with
2:47:30
his kicks and you couldn't get anywhere close to him
2:47:33
If you were in his weight class and you were
2:47:34
normally built, his torso was shorter than mine, but his
2:47:39
crazy long legs and long arms. Some people are just
2:47:43
built certain ways, and for striking, it's a giant problem.
2:47:46
There's another thing that makes Ilya Teporya so fucking unbelievably impressive.
2:47:50
He's not tall at all. Yeah. And he's just flatlining people.
2:47:55
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean, Charles Oliveira looked so much bigger than
2:47:57
him in that fight. And so much bigger than Max, too.
2:48:00
Oliveira's big.
2:48:02
Speaker 1: It's like, look, the sport's fine. It's not in trouble.
2:48:06
The sport's not in trouble. The heavyweight division's in trouble.
2:48:09
The heavyweight division's kind of fucked. It's in a weird situation.
2:48:12
The Alex Pereira thing is very interesting. Alex Pereira versus
2:48:16
Cyril Ghosn is very, very, very interesting because Cyril Ghosn
2:48:19
is a problem. That guy's a problem. He's super athletic.
2:48:23
He's really fast. He's super skillful with his striking. His
2:48:27
Muay Thai is absolutely elite. And he does a lot
2:48:30
of things different than what a lot of people do.
2:48:33
Speaker 2: And has anyone, because even Francis, like I was saying before,
2:48:36
grappled with him a lot in that fight. Obviously, Jon
2:48:39
Jones took him down and choked him. But has anyone
2:48:42
really stood toe to toe and beat him up?
2:48:44
Speaker 1: No. No, no one's beat him up toe-to-toe. Taito Iwasa
2:48:48
went toe-to-toe with him and tried to, but he got
2:48:50
lit up. Dude, Cyril Ghosn is a problem.
2:48:53
Speaker 2: And even in the little bit with Tom Aspinall, it
2:48:56
looked like he's tough. He's tough to fight like that, man.
2:48:59
Speaker 1: Not just tough. He was getting off on Aspinall, and
2:49:02
it didn't look good for Aspinall. I mean, it's very
2:49:05
unfortunate that he got his eyes poked. I mean, that
2:49:07
we really never got to see what happens if you
2:49:09
drag Cyril deep, deep water. What the way Tom would
2:49:12
adjusted for the second round or third round.
2:49:14
Speaker 2: Which we've never really seen out of Tom either. It
2:49:16
was very interesting. We got robbed of that. You know,
2:49:19
we got robbed of that.
2:49:19
Speaker 1: And poor Tom, he's had two fucking eye surgeries. And
2:49:22
then he felt like the UFC disrespected him. The whole
2:49:24
thing's a mess.
2:49:25
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know about the UFC, but a lot
2:49:27
of fans did disrespect him. I saw that, which is crazy. Like,
2:49:30
this is really stupid.
2:49:31
Speaker 1: We talked about this last night. It should be one point, period,
2:49:34
if you poke someone in the eyes. If you poke
2:49:36
someone in the eyes, one point. Especially if the fingers
2:49:39
go in the eyes. If it's like a glancing thing
2:49:41
like that, maybe get a warning. And a nut shot.
2:49:45
Straight nut shot, one point. The glancing thing, maybe a warning.
2:49:50
I think that could be up to the judge's discretion
2:49:52
upon view of the replay.
2:49:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, the thing is that, and we were talking
2:49:57
about this last night, if you land a nut shot
2:50:01
And it's accidental, as it almost always is. You know
2:50:04
what I mean? You're trying to throw an inside leg
2:50:05
kick and.
2:50:06
Speaker 1: It comes over. Unless you're Derek Lewis. Well, okay. Maybe not.
2:50:08
Speaker 2: I said almost.
2:50:09
Speaker 1: Almost always.
2:50:11
Speaker 2: But so I just see this all the time in MMA.
2:50:14
It's the first one. It was an accident. This guy
2:50:17
gets kicked in the nuts. He needs a few minutes.
2:50:19
Usually they don't take the full five or whatever they're offered.
2:50:22
And then you just go back. It's like, look, even
2:50:25
if it was an accident, that's such an advantage to
2:50:27
the guy who's Who who kicked him in the groin.
2:50:31
Speaker 1: You hurt him. You hurt this guy. And now he's
2:50:33
got to get back to it.
2:50:34
Speaker 2: And there's no. So, like, it does seem like there
2:50:36
almost has to be some accounting for that. And there's
2:50:40
I think there's still it's still a very young sport.
2:50:42
I think there is still too much referee discretion. There's
2:50:45
too much like there should be like an official rule
2:50:47
for what we do in this situation. Especially those kind
2:50:50
of fouls. It's like doesn't exist in basketball.
2:50:52
Speaker 1: Right.
2:50:52
Speaker 3: Yeah.
2:50:53
Speaker 1: If somebody fouls somebody in basketball and everybody sees it,
2:50:56
that's a foul. Yes. Right? And the crowd will go nuts. Usually. Usually.
2:51:01
But it'd be like a real one, like throwing someone
2:51:03
to the ground.
2:51:04
Speaker 3: I could show you examples. There are some fucking wild
2:51:06
things that don't get called.
2:51:07
Speaker 1: For whatever reason. Don't you think that's a little bit
2:51:09
of the corrupt referees? I'm not saying all of them,
2:51:12
but that is one thing that's been 100% proven. Is
2:51:16
that referees do get paid off in order to influence
2:51:19
gambling lines.
2:51:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was that one referee who confirmed that it
2:51:23
was the Sacramento Kings versus the Lakers, which was like
2:51:29
a series that was like. Notoriously. Everyone was like, yo,
2:51:33
it was crazy. They didn't call any of these fouls
2:51:35
on the Lakers. And they called all these fouls. And
2:51:37
then a ref came out and was like.
2:51:38
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, that's weird.
2:51:39
Speaker 2: And it does kind of make sense. Because it was
2:51:43
the Shaq and Kobe Lakers. You got to get them
2:51:45
in the finals, dude. It was big money.
2:51:47
Speaker 1: God, it was so gross.
2:51:48
Speaker 3: His defense, weirdly, was like, no one told us what
2:51:51
to do. But you kind of know what they want.
2:51:53
So you sort of do it. And then you put
2:51:56
on good games and you keep getting the good stuff.
2:51:58
Speaker 1: Hang them. Public hanging. Fuck you.
2:52:01
Speaker 2: We can deal with Congress's insider trading, but basketball must
2:52:05
be a fair act.
2:52:06
Speaker 1: Bad judges hanging. Hang them. Hang them all in front
2:52:10
of the kingdom. All right, dude. Anything else before we
2:52:13
wrap this up?
2:52:15
Speaker 2: No, thank you for letting a non-expert talk MMA with.
2:52:17
Speaker 1: You so much. I love talking to non-experts.
2:52:20
Speaker 2: Dude, thank you so much for everything, as always, dude.
2:52:23
Speaker 1: My pleasure, brother. Thank you. You're the fucking man. I
2:52:24
love you, dude. You're the fucking man, too. I love you, too.
2:52:27
We'll have fun tonight, all right? Are you coming? Are
2:52:29
you leaving? You got to go? Damn, last night was fun.
2:52:32
There was a lot of fun. All right. Bye, everybody.