Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #280 New Places New Faces

Transcript

#280 New Places New Faces · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. It's the podcast for the
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Now how inspiring it is to hear from a parent
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: who's saying, we just want more margin in our lives
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: and we're actually going to make a change to try
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: to create that.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: and dad.
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: Hello, this is doctor Justin Coulson.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: I'm the author of a bunch of books about raising
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: happy families and the founder of happy families dot com.
• 0:31
  Speaker 4: Do you?
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: And this is the Happy Families Podcast. I'm here with Kylie,
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: my wife and mom to our six daughters.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Kylie, we love it when we get.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Requests from people to help them out with some parenting
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: challenges and sticky situations about raising kids. And one came
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: through that captured you so much that you said, we're
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: not doing what we were supposed to do today, We're
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: going to do something else instead. So what is it
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: that somebody has emailed us via podcasts at happy families
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: dot com do you that you just had to talk
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: about today?
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  Speaker 4: Well, actually I have to correct you, because you didn't
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: email us. It actually came up as a post on
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: our premium page Oh.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: So if you're a Happy Family's member, you get access
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: to a premium Facebook page and this person has contacted us.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: There my mistake. So what did she say? What's her name?
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  Speaker 4: Well, she told me that she totally adored both of us,
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  Speaker 4: So that was the first first plus.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, that's probably more for you, but that's fine, we'll
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: go with that.
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  Speaker 3: So she called my attention first up.
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  Speaker 2: That's a way to get a personalized response on the podcast,
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  Speaker 2: isn't it.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: Let's actually say how much.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Let's just suck right up to Justin and Kylie say
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: how awesome you are, and then they're going to talk
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: about us. So what's going on with what's her name?
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: Her name is Christi?
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  Speaker 3: How many kids she got?
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  Speaker 4: She has four kids, aged seven to five, two and
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: nine months old.
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  Speaker 3: Wow, so a really young family, very young family.
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  Speaker 4: They've been living in Sydney with all the hustle and
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: bustle that comes with Sydney life. Long hours, it's at
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: day care, working, you know, lots of hours, the hustle
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: and bustle, strict budgeting, small house with no budget left.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Well I think I said this on the podcast the
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  Speaker 2: other week, is like forty four million dollars for a
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  Speaker 2: two bedroom shack.
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  Speaker 4: Now, so they've recently decided that they're going to leave Sydney.
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  Speaker 4: They need more margin in their life as a family
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  Speaker 4: and their budget, right right, yep, yep, And so they've
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  Speaker 4: decided to move to Canberra. They've got some connections down
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: there already with church communities and families in the area
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: that they know. Oh great, So they're excited about it,
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  Speaker 4: and when they told the kids they're seven year old,
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  Speaker 4: obviously became quite upset. He's got a great group of
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: friends at school. The connections there are strong, and obviously
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  Speaker 4: there's some anxiety about what's going to happen. I'm leaving
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  Speaker 4: behind and what's going to be there at the other end.
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  Speaker 4: And so now as a mum, she's starting to have
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: anxiety about their decision and wants to know if she's
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  Speaker 4: making the right decision.
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  Speaker 3: Wow, so we've been through this. Well, that's why she.
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: Actually caught my attention, not because she told me I
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  Speaker 4: was awesome.
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  Speaker 3: So so she's aware that we've been through this from
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: the plot shape.
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: She mentioned that she'd heard on one of the podcast
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: episodes that we've done an interstate move. We've done a
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  Speaker 4: few of them over the years. Her two main questions
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: that she wanted us to answer were how did you
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: support your kids with the change? And how did you
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: discern it was the right move? And as I was
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: thinking about all of the things I could tell her,
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  Speaker 4: I just didn't feel like I could do it justice
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  Speaker 4: in a little post. So here we are today. We're
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  Speaker 4: going to answer those questions.
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  Speaker 2: All podcast episode for you, Crystal. The first thing that
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: I reckon is worth highlighting is just how inspiring it
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  Speaker 2: is to hear from a parent who's saying, we just
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: want more margin in our lives, and we're actually going
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: to make a change to try.
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: To create that. We're going to go for a slower
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: paced life. We're going to.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Change our living situations substantially so that we can spend
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: more time with our family. And I really think that
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: the extra intention there is really really desirable. I'm so
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: pleased to hear that it's inspiring. The other thing that's
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: worth highlight just thinking about crystal situation is she said
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: that it's the seven year old who's really opposition or
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: anxious about this, and that's because older kids struggle the most.
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  Speaker 2: All children want predictability, They thrive on predictability, but older
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: children have the most to lose.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: They've got the deepest roots.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: It's kind of like if you're walking through the garden
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: and you see a weed, it's pretty easy to pull out.
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  Speaker 2: If you see a sapling, you're going to have to
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: do a little bit of maneuvering and maybe even some
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: digging to get it out. And once you see a
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: tree there, my goodness, those things you need to call
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: in people to help you do the job. Once we've
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: got a seven year old, we're not talking about a
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: little weed anymore. We're talking about a sapling. It might
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: be a few centimeters, maybe even ten or fifteen centimeters thick,
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: and it's.
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: Hard to get a tree like that out of the ground.
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  Speaker 2: And so I get why Cristal would be saying that
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  Speaker 2: this is a hard thing, especially for the seven year old,
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  Speaker 2: and why she would be second guessing her decision. It's
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: really challenging, and I think that there's a handful of
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: things that parents can do to help their children to
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: navigate a really big move that can be tremendously unsettling.
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: The first time we did an interstate move, our daughter,
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: our eldest daughter, was eight, so we were in a
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: very similar situation.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: And we sold her on that big time. So we
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: were living in Brisbane, we were moving to Woollongong. It's
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: about a fourteen hour drive from one to the other
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: for those who are not familiar with the geography, and
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: no matter how hard we tried to sell it, she
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: was really confronted by it. It was a hard thing
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: to do to make that move. Fortunately, where we moved,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: things settled down reasonably quickly, and that's something that research
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: would tend to point to that younger kids will settle
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: into their new environment with less fuss and they will
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: establish themselves. But that's not to suggest that it will
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: be easy. It's just that it will be easier than
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: big kids. Why don't we come back after the quick
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: break and talk about some specific things that Crystal and
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: her family can do to make this work as smoothly
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: as possible. It's the Happy Families podcast.
• 6:09
  Speaker 5: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having
• 6:12
  Speaker 5: to feel bad or in trouble. The do's and don'ts
• 6:15
  Speaker 5: of discipline as a webinar to help parents set limits
• 6:18
  Speaker 5: with love, compassion and humanity. Find it now at happyfamilies
• 6:22
  Speaker 5: dot com dot au slash shop.
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: poor parent who just wants answers now, and today we
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: are answering Crystal's question from the Happy Famili's premium membership
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: page in relation to moving big decision around whether or
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: not we're doing the right thing.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: In relation to Crystal's challenge, the first thing that strikes
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: me is that there seems to be this wavering and
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: should we give the children more of a voice. I'm
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: all about empowering kids, and anyone who's read my books
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: or listen to the podcast knows that. But when it
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: comes to a family decision like this, I actually think
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: that this is ultimately a parent decision. The parents decide,
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: and that's the decision. The kids don't really get to choose.
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  Speaker 2: Parents actually know what's best for the family sometimes, and
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: that's what Crystal and her husband have decided. So they
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: just let the kids know, guys, this is what we're doing.
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  Speaker 2: I think though, that it's really important that they spend
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: time being gentle in the discussions, spending a lot of
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  Speaker 2: time exploring what's going on in their children's minds, understanding
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  Speaker 2: their worries, and not trying to fix or solve them,
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  Speaker 2: not saying, oh, but when we get there, it's going
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: to be this, or it's going to be that. It's
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  Speaker 2: just about saying, you're really worried about losing your friends,
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  Speaker 2: You're really worried about not being able to do these
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  Speaker 2: things that we've always done. It's going to be really
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  Speaker 2: hard to say goodbye to that, isn't it, And just
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  Speaker 2: being okay with the fact that kids are going to grieve,
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  Speaker 2: They're going to mourn what they're losing.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: For me, it's about acceptance and being really open with
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  Speaker 4: our children about how we're feeling about it. We might
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: actually be feeling really excited about the new change, but
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  Speaker 4: for all of us there's also that anxiety that's created
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  Speaker 4: around having to make new friends. And you know, as
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  Speaker 4: a mum, where am I going to find a good
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: doctor and a dentist? And you know all of the
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: logistics now he.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: Addresses, which shopping centermating go to? Where am I going
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: to get discount fruit and veggies like I've been getting
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  Speaker 2: where I am now?
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  Speaker 4: And our kids need to understand that we're feeling exactly
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: the same things they are, but in different ways and
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: for different reasons. And I think that as we have
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: those open conversations. It doesn't change things and it doesn't
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  Speaker 4: fix how our children are feeling, but it helps them
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  Speaker 4: to know that we understand.
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  Speaker 2: Let's move on to the whole empowered thing. We do
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  Speaker 2: need to empower and say, well, what do you think
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  Speaker 2: we can do to make this work. You're not going
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: to say what do you think we should do about it?
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  Speaker 2: Maybe we should just stay here, that's not an option,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: but you can empower them within the parameters that are appropriates.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: You might say, well, what do you think we can
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  Speaker 2: do to make our last eight weeks in Sydney or
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  Speaker 2: our last four weeks in Sydney the best four weeks ever?
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  Speaker 2: Or what do you think we can do when we
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  Speaker 2: get to Canberra to make move in there feel really awesome?
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  Speaker 2: Or how often do you think we should come back?
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  Speaker 2: And what can we do about staying in touch with
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: the people that matter most? So you can empower them
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  Speaker 2: to find ways to navigate this within the boundaries, the guidelines,
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  Speaker 2: the limits, the parameters that they need to based on
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: the fact that we are actually moving.
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: One of the things that we've done, as we've done
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: the move from Wollongong back to Brisbane is Woollongong has
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: become a favorite holiday destination for us, and so you know,
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: keeping those friendships alive is really important to us, and
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: we've had to be very intentional about that so that
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: our children know how much we value those relationships.
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  Speaker 2: So, Crystal, there's a few ideas there. There's a couple
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  Speaker 2: of other things that really stand out to me. I
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: need to emphasize expect hate.
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  Speaker 4: We had about two years of eight from one of
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: our children, in particular, she was one of our older girls,
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  Speaker 4: and she really really struggled. It was hard, was really hard,
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  Speaker 4: but we just accepted that that's where she was at
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  Speaker 4: and that she had every right to feel that way
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: in that moment, and it lasted a long long time.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I would actually go so far as to say, for
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: Crystal that if you're dealing with a seven year old,
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: it's unlikely, especially since you've had long term stability, it's
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: unlikely that you're going to get two years of hate
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: from a seven year old over this. Their adaptation will
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: happen faster. But for parents who are going through this
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: and they've got older children, expect that this is going
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: to be hard.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: We really really copped it.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: And one thing that I think helped us to get
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: through it was openness and honesty. I remember coming home
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: from a trip one time, I'd flown from Brisbane to
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: Sydney and then I had to fly from Sydney to
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Canberra the next day because of the different presentations that
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: I was delivering. As we took off from Sydney and
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: flew into Canberra, we flew straight over the top of Wollongong.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: It was a crystal clear day. I could see from
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: the airplane window straight down. I could see the lighthouse
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: at City Beach in Wollongong. I could see North Gong Beach.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: I was looking at the Rule and Bullye and sand
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: and Point, and I could see Mount Kira and fig Tree,
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: the suburb that we lived in. I could actually make
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: out the big long street from Chico's, the our favorite
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: chicken shop, up to the top of the hill. It
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: was called O'Brien's Road.
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: We lived just around the corner from there.
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  Speaker 2: And while I couldn't make out our house, I could
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: see all of these landmarks. And I remember it had
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: only been a couple of months, maybe three months since
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: we left, and I called you when I landed in Canberra,
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: and I was almost in tears.
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  Speaker 4: You went almost you did down.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: Come on, don't be like that. I don't know that
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: I actually cried, but I was weepy, and I just said,
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: I can't believe we've done this. I missed this place
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: so much. And being able to share that experience with
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: our daughter, who was giving us all of that hate,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: it just helped her know that it wasn't just hard
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: for her, it was hard for everyone, and.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: We were all in this together.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: It didn't necessarily stop her hating us, but it put
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: a human face on it for her, so she knew
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: she wasn't the only one suffering.
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  Speaker 4: Well. Over those months, as you know, we made the
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: move and the transition and life continued to be hard
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: for some time time as we started to settle into
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: our new community and new environment. One of the things
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: that I found really helpful was just checking in with
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: the family every now and again and talking about some
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: of the positive things that had come as a result
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: of the move. Sometimes it can be so hard to
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: see that because we're so caught up in our own hurt,
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: and so having those open conversations with one another and acknowledging,
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: you know what, we actually get to spend more time
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: together as a family, or now I get to see
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: my cousins that I haven't seen for pretty much my
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: whole life. I now get to spend time with them more,
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: or whatever it is. And just being able to acknowledge
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: those things, however small they are, is really powerful.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: What you're really saying is create connection, create meaning, make
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: the move matter. And I think that the last thing
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: that really springs to mind in this conversation to wrap
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: things up, would be that we should just expect that
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: it's going to take a while, and that we need
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: to be patient and compassionate with our kids.
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: I think one of the other things that's really important
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: us to be intentional. You know, one of the reasons
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: you are doing a move is because you want to
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: create more margin. Then it's really important that you actually
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: make the space when you get there. But secondly, if
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: connection is so important for all of us, then we
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: have to be intentional as parents to help our children
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: create the new relationships in their lives. Being intentional about
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: having play dates and inviting people to the park or
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: having people over for a meal so that you can
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: get to know people, you can introduce new children to
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: your children, is really important. Part of that process.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: Let's wrap this up. One last thing.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: You need to expect that it's going to take a while,
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: whether they're seven or seventeen, moving is hard. The people
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: who say, oh, they'll be fine, kids are resilient, they'll
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: bounce back.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: That's a really.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Discompassionate response, and we've watched it with our six kids.
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: It is hard to make a move.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Don't be under any illusions that, even though you're doing
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: it for all the right reasons, that it's going to
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: be easy.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: It won't be.
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: And even as a mum feel like it's the right
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: thing to do, it's really hard watching your children suffer
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: through that process.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: That's one of the hardest things there is to watch
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: the kids struggle like that. I think that it's really
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: important that we're compassionate. I've talked about this before on
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: the podcast, but I want to share it again. It's
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: one of the most profound things that I've learned as
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: I've studied how we can make our families happier. Compassion
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: means quite literally, to suffer together. Passion means suffering. Calm
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: means with others together. So when we have compassion, we
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: literally suffer with When our children are suffering because this
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: move has been so hard.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: It's our duty as parents.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: Because we've moved them, to sit beside them in their
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: suffering and suffer with them. It doesn't mean that we
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: have to moan and groan and put on sackcloth and
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: ashes and rend our clothing and moan and writhe on
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: the ground. It just means that we say to our kids,
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: if this is so hard, I'm right here with you,
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: give me a hug, let's figure this out together, and
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: then just sit in that moment.
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: With them with a tub of ice cream and a
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: doo not.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: The take home message from this is expect it to
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: be hard. Focus really hard on exploring, explaining and empowering,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: and be intentional, and expect a bit of hate.
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: You're going to end on that one.
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: We really hope you've enjoyed the podcast.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: We hope Crystal that has helped you and anyone else
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: who's in the process of moving. One thing that we
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: know about the COVID nineteen pandemic. It has set a
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: blaze the real estate market and people are moving all
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: over the place with their kids. So we hope that
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: there's been a handful of useful ideas to help your
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: family to manage and navigate the challenges associated with fresh
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: starts and new beginnings. We as always appreciate the good
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: work of Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. He's our producer,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: and the great ideas and fabulous guidance that we receive
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: from our executive producer, Craig Bruce. Thank you, Craig. The
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Happy Families Podcast. We'll be back tomorrow with our favorite
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: episode of the week. I'll do better tomorrow. Oh and
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: next week I got to tell you very excited about this.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: We're going to talk about one of our most popular
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: podcasts last year was What's for Dinner Month, and we're
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: going to play around with the winter edition of that
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: and help you to get some inspiration for how to
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: navigate the ups and downs and challenges have meal time
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: with kids as we move into the colder months, at
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: least here in the Southern Hemisphere in Australia. Plus, we're
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: going to continue the conversations about the challenging intimate topics
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: that have dominated the news recently, talking with a moral philosopher,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: Emma Wood, about how to teach kids about intimacy and
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: meaningful ways. That's all coming up on The Happy Families podcast.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: If you'd like more info about making your family happy,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: please visit happy families dot com dot au