Latest / The Evolution of Evil - True Crime Stories / Eamon Cooke： Ireland's Jimmy Savile

Transcript

Eamon Cooke： Ireland's Jimmy Savile · The Evolution of Evil - True Crime Stories

0:08
Speaker 1: We were doing such good. We were keeping bambles off
0:11
Speaker 1: the street. We were keeping young people occupied. They were
0:14
Speaker 1: glued to the radios instead of out wrecking from boxes
0:17
Speaker 1: and robin cars and all sorts of things.
0:21
Speaker 2: On June the fourth, twenty sixteen, the legendary Irish pirate
0:25
Speaker 2: radio operator Amon Cook died.
0:29
Speaker 3: And I think for many people while he was alive,
0:32
Speaker 3: they were frightened of him.
0:33
Speaker 4: It shows the power that he held over his victims
0:36
Speaker 4: and the fear they had of him, that it is
0:38
Speaker 4: only after his day to defend them powered to come forward.
0:42
Speaker 2: But unlike the many notable broadcasters who had gained their
0:45
Speaker 2: first taste of fame on his station, Radio Dublin, Cook
0:49
Speaker 2: was a legend for all the wrong reasons.
0:54
Speaker 5: Jam and Cook certainly is up there among the rogues
0:59
Speaker 5: gallery of child molesters in his country. A wicked, evil, manipulative,
1:06
Speaker 5: sociopathic predator.
1:09
Speaker 2: He'd systematically been abusing young girls for decades, many on
1:14
Speaker 2: the premises of Radio Dublin, and had been convicted for
1:17
Speaker 2: his crimes in two thousand and seven.
1:20
Speaker 6: The really terrible thing about this is that we have
1:24
Speaker 6: no idea how many victims there are of ailment Cook,
1:27
Speaker 6: and how many lives he's destroyed, But.
1:36
Speaker 2: Within days of his death, his name was linked to
1:38
Speaker 2: one of the most notorious and baffling missing person cases
1:42
Speaker 2: in the history of the state, the disappearance of teenager
1:45
Speaker 2: Philip Kearns. A witness now claims that the boy was
1:50
Speaker 2: murdered by Cook in Radio Dublin, his body dumped the
1:53
Speaker 2: same day. What really happened the day the thirteen year
1:58
Speaker 2: old went missing? Why and how could he have ended
2:01
Speaker 2: up nearly five miles from his home with a man
2:04
Speaker 2: he didn't know in such a well known place. And
2:08
Speaker 2: could the pirate pedophile have committed an act of murder?
2:13
Speaker 7: He was an absolute monster. He was a vicious psychopath
2:17
Speaker 7: and a predator, a rapist, a pedophile. He was just
2:20
Speaker 7: the worst human being you could ever imagine. So do
2:22
Speaker 7: I think he's capable of murdering a child and covering
2:24
Speaker 7: it up?
2:24
Speaker 8: I must certainly do.
2:41
Speaker 2: Dublin in the early nineteen seventies, in terms of entertainment
2:46
Speaker 2: options were limited.
2:48
Speaker 3: My memories of Dublin are still in black and white.
2:52
Speaker 3: That was foreign TV, a UK TV coming in, but
2:54
Speaker 3: it still felt like a little rock on the edge
2:57
Speaker 3: of Europe. You got to remember that young people's relationship
3:03
Speaker 3: with radio in the seventies and eighties was totally different
3:05
Speaker 3: than it is now because it was the only game
3:07
Speaker 3: in town. There was no internet, there were no video games. Basically,
3:11
Speaker 3: you were stock at home and what you did was
3:13
Speaker 3: listen to the radio.
3:15
Speaker 2: In terms of radio stations, options were even more limited.
3:19
Speaker 2: In Ireland, there was only one choice Radio Dublin was
3:24
Speaker 2: one of the stations to stay the course. Don Moore
3:27
Speaker 2: first met am and Cook when he rambled into his
3:30
Speaker 2: TV repair shop.
3:32
Speaker 9: I met Amon Cook way back at about nineteen seventy two.
3:36
Speaker 9: I was always fascinated by radios since I was a kid,
3:41
Speaker 9: and there was a repair shop for TVs and radios
3:44
Speaker 9: in Thomas Street. I was probably nineteen or twenty.
3:48
Speaker 10: Wandering by.
3:50
Speaker 8: I rambled into the shop, which was.
3:52
Speaker 9: Full of TVs, but very interestingly, it had a taxi
3:57
Speaker 9: radio receiver in the corner, and this fascinated more than anything,
4:01
Speaker 9: because I was pretending to be interested in the conversation
4:05
Speaker 9: with this little man, Naman Cook, and at the same
4:09
Speaker 9: time I was listening to the radio with the taxi messages.
4:13
Speaker 2: To avoid the attention of the Guard Thee and the
4:15
Speaker 2: Department of Posts and telegraphs. The station moved from house
4:19
Speaker 2: to house, eventually ending up at Cook's house in Chiquor,
4:23
Speaker 2: where he lived with his wife, Joan, the second of
4:25
Speaker 2: three wives he would have in his life.
4:28
Speaker 9: He always liked to be the controller, and he loved
4:32
Speaker 9: the attention, and I think it gave him a certain
4:36
Speaker 9: feeling of being somebody.
4:40
Speaker 2: A fallout between Cook and Don Moore led to the
4:43
Speaker 2: establishment of another pirate ard. Cook had built his own transmitter,
4:49
Speaker 2: effectively shutting his previous associates out of Radio Dublin.
4:54
Speaker 9: I decided I'd go and visit Cook, and I knocked
4:57
Speaker 9: on his door, and I asked him what he was played,
5:00
Speaker 9: because at this point I knew when he answered the
5:03
Speaker 9: door he was surrounded by children. I always remember that,
5:06
Speaker 9: and I thought there might have been his brother's kids,
5:10
Speaker 9: his cousins, but I remember being I distinct to remember
5:14
Speaker 9: a gathering of kids around him. I wasn't a tough guy,
5:18
Speaker 9: but I was from Balley Furmas, so I could pretend
5:20
Speaker 9: to be tough.
5:22
Speaker 10: And I remember.
5:23
Speaker 9: Telling him quite clearly that that transmitter and that signal
5:28
Speaker 9: and that frequency his mind, he will not take it away.
5:33
Speaker 2: When Moore arrived at Sarsfield, road to confront Cook. His
5:37
Speaker 2: real personality came through and.
5:40
Speaker 9: His answer was as shuld, I get a gun and
5:42
Speaker 9: I go over and I shoot you. And I said
5:46
Speaker 9: you'd probably go to jail for that, and he said
5:49
Speaker 9: it wouldn't be the first time.
5:51
Speaker 2: Cook was an unlikely radio boss.
5:54
Speaker 11: Aim Cook's a curious, curious guy. His background wasn't in broadcasting,
6:00
Speaker 11: was in electronics and that stoot him the great stead
6:03
Speaker 11: later on when he did get involved with radio double.
6:06
Speaker 7: He was born and bred in Glass and Evan. He
6:10
Speaker 7: was actually as a teenager he was convicted of explosive offensis.
6:15
Speaker 11: His background was a very ultra Republican family. They're his words.
6:20
Speaker 11: He got involved on the fringes of the IRA, was
6:23
Speaker 11: in trouble with the Guards and was banged both in
6:25
Speaker 11: Mountjoy and Port.
6:27
Speaker 7: Leash, and he apparently talked about it with great pride,
6:30
Speaker 7: you know, his IRA connections and whatnot. Throughout his life.
6:35
Speaker 2: Despite this criminal record, Cook bizarrely ingratiated himself with the Guard,
6:40
Speaker 2: the popping up at the most unusual times.
6:43
Speaker 5: I came across him first around nineteen sixty nine nineteen
6:49
Speaker 5: seventy I was sent into the city on the crime
6:55
Speaker 5: Task Force one of the first crime task forces, a
6:58
Speaker 5: uniform task force. And I was a motorcychic garder, and
7:03
Speaker 5: that's where I first came across this strange exotic man
7:07
Speaker 5: called am.
7:08
Speaker 4: And Cook an his sreet gard in the eighty seventies
7:12
Speaker 4: would be quite well looking into Damon Cook. Am Cook
7:15
Speaker 4: has patrolled the streets at night in this Jaguar car
7:17
Speaker 4: of his Cebee radio and he'd be listening into the
7:21
Speaker 4: yard that calls moniting and they caused the ambulance.
7:24
Speaker 5: He was well known to, especially those of us in
7:28
Speaker 5: the south city of Dublin, and the dispatchers in Dublin
7:34
Speaker 5: Castle actually afforded him his own coat sign called he
7:39
Speaker 5: was called Alpha seven.
7:42
Speaker 9: On the Jaguar. He had this crash bar built into
7:46
Speaker 9: the front of it where he could ram cars. And
7:49
Speaker 9: it was hard to believe this was actually going on,
7:52
Speaker 9: because of course I went home to bed like everybody else.
7:55
Speaker 9: But he could tell me about domestic disputes, factories going on,
8:00
Speaker 9: fire car crashes, things that were going on because he
8:04
Speaker 9: was listening to the police calls.
8:06
Speaker 4: He seemed to have a fascination, especially which scenes where
8:09
Speaker 4: afraidance had been used. He'd often raven a scene to
8:12
Speaker 4: finding there.
8:12
Speaker 8: Before you.
8:14
Speaker 3: In tune into the police radios, which are far easier
8:18
Speaker 3: to listen into those days than they are now. They're
8:20
Speaker 3: they won't scrambled back then, and he would go off
8:23
Speaker 3: in pursuit of suspects. He was a water misty character.
8:27
Speaker 3: That was a very very strange thing to do.
8:31
Speaker 5: He dressed like a vagrant, you know. He didn't look
8:35
Speaker 5: the part. I thought there was something weird about him.
8:38
Speaker 5: I always felt there was something not quite right about him.
8:44
Speaker 4: He's a small vision little man, I said. One word
8:48
Speaker 4: of business creame is sleazy.
8:51
Speaker 2: Amon Cook's physical appearance seems to have been particularly unattractive.
8:56
Speaker 6: He struck me as a strange character in that he
9:00
Speaker 6: didn't seem to be very clean. He don't know if
9:02
Speaker 6: that makes sense, but his appearance was shoddy. His shirt collar,
9:07
Speaker 6: for instance, was quite grimy with dirt.
9:12
Speaker 3: I met him briefly in nineteen eighty three, and he
9:16
Speaker 3: was smelly. That's a horrible thing to say. His personal
9:19
Speaker 3: hygiene wasn't great. He looked disheveled.
9:21
Speaker 11: Everything about Cook was shabby. He was always unkept. His
9:26
Speaker 11: clothes were always like he picked them up in second
9:28
Speaker 11: hand clothes shops.
9:29
Speaker 8: Smoked like a trooper didn't drink.
9:33
Speaker 9: My wife called him dirty shirty because you know, it
9:35
Speaker 9: was in the black mark on his shirt, as if
9:37
Speaker 9: he fell asleep in his shirt and jacket and woke
9:41
Speaker 9: up and just carry it on.
9:44
Speaker 12: A dirty smelly who sat in the house with a
9:49
Speaker 12: sous and a dirty South, dirty filty finger nuts and
9:56
Speaker 12: never ever lifted his eyes.
10:00
Speaker 10: I spoke to you.
10:01
Speaker 8: It is ice.
10:02
Speaker 2: Closed Radio Dublin was typical of the stations of the era,
10:08
Speaker 2: run down secondhand or borrowed equipment in a rundown premises.
10:15
Speaker 11: The building itself was kind of crumbling because of potential
10:19
Speaker 11: raids from the department. Windows were blocked, doors were blocked.
10:23
Speaker 11: There was just stuff scattered everywhere.
10:26
Speaker 6: It would have been what you might call a set
10:28
Speaker 6: of double decks which would be used for a mobile
10:30
Speaker 6: DJ unit, some tape recorders, some cassette recorders, and microphone
10:37
Speaker 6: and basic, very basic, nothing much at all.
10:41
Speaker 11: You kind of get the sense that it was a home,
10:45
Speaker 11: it was a radio station, It was a junk yard.
10:48
Speaker 11: It was all kinds of things rolled into but basically
10:51
Speaker 11: it was just a mess.
10:52
Speaker 6: Absolutely a bit of a kip and sort of equipment.
10:55
Speaker 6: There was seemed to be strung together, but it seemed
10:59
Speaker 6: to work. It sound okay on air.
11:01
Speaker 2: In many senses, Radio Dublin was a free for all.
11:06
Speaker 3: There were lots of youngish girls there, sixteen or seventeen volunteers,
11:10
Speaker 3: manning the phones and taking requests and that kind of thing.
11:15
Speaker 11: Any one moment in time, you would have people living
11:17
Speaker 11: in the house. You'd have just jogies on air, you'd
11:19
Speaker 11: have their pals around, people miching off school, you just
11:23
Speaker 11: have anything.
11:26
Speaker 6: My program was in the evening, so I arrived up
11:28
Speaker 6: there around about half seven, went on air at eight
11:30
Speaker 6: o'clock in the evening time. So there mightn't have been
11:32
Speaker 6: as many at that stage, but I was there during
11:35
Speaker 6: the day on one or two occasions, and there were
11:37
Speaker 6: several children there.
11:38
Speaker 8: Now when I say children, I.
11:40
Speaker 10: Mean people of the age.
11:41
Speaker 6: They were probably teenage children, not younger than teenage, but
11:45
Speaker 6: there would be several of them, boys and girls.
11:50
Speaker 11: I was there loads and loads of occasions, and whenever
11:52
Speaker 11: you'd walk in twenty four to seven, there'd be people there.
11:55
Speaker 11: The radio will be on, they'd be broadcasting, the kettle
11:57
Speaker 11: would be on. It was always a buzz, a very
12:00
Speaker 11: messy buzz.
12:03
Speaker 3: Certainly, I remember in Radio Dublin. There could have been
12:06
Speaker 3: a dozen young kids sat around. Some might have been
12:09
Speaker 3: doing programs, most we answering the telephones which were just
12:12
Speaker 3: ringing off the wall. It was all requests for kids
12:15
Speaker 3: who are madly in love with whoever. And sometimes it
12:19
Speaker 3: felt like a bit of a crash in there. And
12:21
Speaker 3: there was a lot of kids that come in their
12:24
Speaker 3: school gear. I do remember going in one day at
12:26
Speaker 3: about five five thirty there was two or three i'd
12:28
Speaker 3: say fourteen or fifteen year olds in their convent outfits,
12:32
Speaker 3: and one of those, I know sort of cook regular
12:34
Speaker 3: to sort of take home in his car.
12:37
Speaker 2: Radio Dublin had become a success, catering to a young
12:40
Speaker 2: market hungry for music and satisfied by the NonStop pup
12:44
Speaker 2: and endless chatter which Cook station had to offer. In
12:48
Speaker 2: early nineteen seventy, EGE rumors began circulating in Radio Dublin
12:52
Speaker 2: about the bosses behavior, in particular his unusual friendships with
12:56
Speaker 2: young girls who sometimes hung around the station.
13:01
Speaker 11: People in the radio station knew he was filling with
13:04
Speaker 11: kids absolutely.
13:06
Speaker 6: The allegation was that these children had been abused, that
13:11
Speaker 6: these children had been sexually abused.
13:14
Speaker 8: That's the allegation.
13:16
Speaker 2: People like James Dylan were deeply suspicious of Cook's activities.
13:20
Speaker 2: Dylan decided to leave Radio Dublin and set up a
13:23
Speaker 2: rival station, Big D.
13:27
Speaker 13: It was brought to my attention that a fourteen year
13:29
Speaker 13: old was made aware from a nine year old that
13:33
Speaker 13: something had happened it seemed was of a sexual nature.
13:40
Speaker 13: The concern was that if there was any misunderstanding that now,
13:47
Speaker 13: it would damage both the radio station and Amon Cook's reputation.
13:53
Speaker 13: On the other hand, it was true, then the DJs
13:59
Speaker 13: in the station were being used as a type of
14:01
Speaker 13: magnet to bring children in for abuse. Basically, I needed,
14:11
Speaker 13: first of all, to prove to myself that it was true.
14:16
Speaker 13: I needed to establish that fact. You know, you might
14:21
Speaker 13: say it wasn't really my place to establish it, but
14:24
Speaker 13: I wanted to know before I took any action. And
14:28
Speaker 13: I got the fourteen year old to make a recording
14:32
Speaker 13: to establish with the nine year old, just to repeat
14:35
Speaker 13: what was said previously, to establish was there anything in it.
14:40
Speaker 13: I didn't let anybody else hear the tape. After she
14:44
Speaker 13: came back, I took it home and listened to it.
14:46
Speaker 13: What was very clear was an adult was going to
14:50
Speaker 13: great lengths to manipulate a child, and I was one
14:54
Speaker 13: hundred percent convinced that he was up to something really bad.
14:59
Speaker 11: Cook wasness saying he'd been given a holiday by an advertiser.
15:02
Speaker 11: He flew back into Dublin Airport and was met at
15:07
Speaker 11: arrivals with a fit of complete.
15:08
Speaker 13: I met him at the airport and told them that
15:11
Speaker 13: he brought this on himself by interfering with the children,
15:15
Speaker 13: by using the radio station as some kind of a magnet,
15:20
Speaker 13: and that whatever happened from there was on his shoulders as.
15:25
Speaker 8: Far as he's concerned.
15:26
Speaker 11: The ringleaders, James Dillon and Jerry Campbell were basically that
15:29
Speaker 11: was it were they were. They were cut off and
15:33
Speaker 11: with them could go most of his talent and you're
15:36
Speaker 11: total took be big talent he like, you know, Dave
15:38
Speaker 11: Fanning and there was Marty Wheeling, John Clark, Dennis Murray.
15:44
Speaker 8: That they could just they could just.
15:45
Speaker 11: Go and he would start all over again, because he
15:48
Speaker 11: was amazing narcissist. It was really all about Cook. I mean,
15:52
Speaker 11: he was the captain.
15:54
Speaker 13: I knew that he was going to come back, deny
15:58
Speaker 13: everything and intimidate as many peop was possible, because I
16:01
Speaker 13: figured that was his modus up random and that's pretty
16:04
Speaker 13: much what he did.
16:05
Speaker 2: The captain was furious, particularly that his interference with children
16:09
Speaker 2: was one of the reasons for Dylan's departure and the
16:12
Speaker 2: establishment of Big d Oh.
16:14
Speaker 6: He was absolutely incensed. He was raging, and he also
16:19
Speaker 6: played a bit of the martyr which was kind of
16:21
Speaker 6: interesting as well as a very strange man named in Cook.
16:26
Speaker 2: Cook took to the air to defend his position and
16:29
Speaker 2: to condemn the treachery of his former employees.
16:33
Speaker 14: As everyone out there would say, well, there's no smoke,
16:36
Speaker 14: put out a little bit of fire, and what can
16:39
Speaker 14: one do? How does one disprove this type of allegation.
16:43
Speaker 14: But children were allowed into Radio Javelin and were more lested, Yes, yes,
16:52
Speaker 14: they were the allegations laid down against me, person may
16:57
Speaker 14: fat children were allowed into this or Radio Stone is
17:00
Speaker 14: here and very impacently mylested or my lest that was
17:05
Speaker 14: the actual allegation. All I could do, of course, was
17:09
Speaker 14: denious and asked for proof.
17:13
Speaker 13: He probably felt that by going on and actually saying
17:17
Speaker 13: what he was accused of, the public could think, well,
17:21
Speaker 13: if he's actually said that, it couldn't be true, or
17:23
Speaker 13: he wouldn't have.
17:24
Speaker 6: Said it very weird because he would play this victim
17:30
Speaker 6: like as if he were the victim, and that's what
17:32
Speaker 6: he did on that broadcast.
17:34
Speaker 2: James Dillon went to Cook again. This time the Captain's
17:37
Speaker 2: response was more disturbing.
17:40
Speaker 13: The second time that I approached Cook and told him
17:42
Speaker 13: I believed that he was a child abuser and that
17:47
Speaker 13: he could go on the air and pretend all he liked,
17:51
Speaker 13: but I believed it and history will show that you are.
17:57
Speaker 13: And his reaction was threatened to see me six foot
18:01
Speaker 13: on her, and.
18:03
Speaker 2: That is where the matter was left. Fear of Cook
18:06
Speaker 2: apparently stopped his victims from complaining, but the culture of
18:09
Speaker 2: the time didn't help.
18:11
Speaker 3: I think it's also worth pointing out that in nineteen
18:13
Speaker 3: seventy nine there was no sexual abuse either sort of
18:17
Speaker 3: church or private individuals. These were not discussions that people had.
18:21
Speaker 3: A sixteen seventeen year old boy working for Radio Dublin
18:24
Speaker 3: would not have been looking for signs. Nobody said, really
18:27
Speaker 3: what inappropriate behavior was. If you now had a man
18:31
Speaker 3: of his age maybe taking a sixteen year old girl,
18:34
Speaker 3: you know, home somewhere or driving her back from a shift,
18:38
Speaker 3: you know, working at Radio Dublin, you say that's probably
18:40
Speaker 3: inappropriate for man of his age to be in a
18:42
Speaker 3: car with a fifteen year old on his own. I
18:44
Speaker 3: would certainly not do that myself, being with a girl
18:47
Speaker 3: who's fifteen on my own. Back then, well, it was
18:50
Speaker 3: just being nice and dropping a home for Cook.
18:53
Speaker 2: There were scores to be settled and new enemies to
18:56
Speaker 2: be confronted, but no amount of protests or to archers
19:00
Speaker 2: seemed to be able to stop the predator, and much
19:04
Speaker 2: worse was to come. By the end of the nineteen seventies,
19:20
Speaker 2: forty three year old Amon Cook was running Radio Dublin,
19:23
Speaker 2: one of the most successful pirates in the country. The
19:26
Speaker 2: station had survived on air despite the departure of almost
19:30
Speaker 2: all of its staff in protest at the owner's continuing
19:33
Speaker 2: molestation of young girls, many of whom had been allowed
19:37
Speaker 2: to hang around the station. Amon Cook was proud of
19:41
Speaker 2: Radio Dublin and what he considered its role in the community.
19:45
Speaker 1: We were doing such good. We were keeping vaandoos off
19:48
Speaker 1: the streets. We were keeping young people at the kind
19:50
Speaker 1: of were glued through the radios instead of help wrecking
19:53
Speaker 1: phone boxes and robin cars and all sorts of things.
19:57
Speaker 2: But a real competition for radio Dublin had a run
20:00
Speaker 2: in the form of the more sophisticated and professional Sunshine Radio,
20:04
Speaker 2: run by ex radio Caroline Englishman Robbie Robinson and Chris Carey.
20:09
Speaker 3: Cook was obviously very Republican, did not like the Brits.
20:12
Speaker 3: Took a grave, grave exception to having his territory. Now
20:16
Speaker 3: he thought it was his personal fifdom, the airwaves in Dublin.
20:21
Speaker 2: Then one night Sunshine's equipment was mysteriously sabotaged.
20:27
Speaker 15: The mast, the transmission mast was sabotaged. It was always
20:34
Speaker 15: believed that Amin Cook was behind that action.
20:39
Speaker 3: Some people say, and Robbie would say, a small piece
20:41
Speaker 3: of dynamite, and it was Radio Dublin. It was Aim
20:44
Speaker 3: and who went out there and cut the mass down.
20:47
Speaker 2: Fearing for his safety, having heard Cook had boasted of
20:50
Speaker 2: ir Ray connections, Kerry fled town.
20:54
Speaker 15: Robbie persevered, Kerry disappeared.
20:59
Speaker 2: When he returned to establish the super pirate Radio Nova,
21:03
Speaker 2: Kerrie offered an olive branch to his harshest critic, lauding
21:07
Speaker 2: him as a radio legend. In an on air.
21:09
Speaker 13: Interview Asia an only time Hotel I loved you as
21:16
Speaker 13: Holiday seven Hanley before tonight, said Sam.
21:18
Speaker 6: Harvey, talking to the granddaddy of commercial radio in Dublin,
21:21
Speaker 6: AMU Cook and Jason vallen Haase seven, good night.
21:26
Speaker 16: Been in radio for some little time now radio as
21:30
Speaker 16: domain preoccupation. You were born in Dublin, Born in Dublin.
21:33
Speaker 16: Glass even moved to Inchicore in nineteen sixty one. I
21:40
Speaker 16: was a clerk. I worked in the civil service. I
21:42
Speaker 16: worked for the Post Office. Decent people, and I've been
21:46
Speaker 16: around here there yonder run electric and radio contracting business
21:51
Speaker 16: there for for a few years, about fifteen years. So
21:54
Speaker 16: what do you want to do in the future. And again,
21:56
Speaker 16: I'd like to stay in the background on radio. An
22:00
Speaker 16: like to be in the forefront, but I would like
22:03
Speaker 16: to keep track of listeners likes and dislikes.
22:07
Speaker 2: Cook's activities as a pirate became more brazen. He even
22:11
Speaker 2: rebroadcast Arte's main news bulletins, seeking permission from the state
22:16
Speaker 2: broadcaster to do so.
22:17
Speaker 11: At one stage, DJs would stop on it wooll come
22:21
Speaker 11: thet news. And then Ortie wrote to him and said,
22:24
Speaker 11: you know, cease and assist. And he wrote a very
22:27
Speaker 11: very worthy reply back saying that he would. He was
22:30
Speaker 11: seized to broadcast. I think was the lunchtime news, but
22:32
Speaker 11: he would still do the evening news instead.
22:35
Speaker 2: And right across the early nineteen eighties, Cook continued to
22:39
Speaker 2: interfere with children.
22:41
Speaker 6: He seemed to be empowered for some reason. It was
22:43
Speaker 6: almost as if he was untouchable. He always had that
22:47
Speaker 6: untouchable thing. Now, whether he actually got more confidence because
22:51
Speaker 6: he wasn't apprehended or not, I'm not sure, but probably yes.
22:56
Speaker 8: I think he probably got worse.
23:01
Speaker 14: Guardie and South County Dublin have issued an appeal for
23:04
Speaker 14: a thirteen year old boy missing from his home in
23:07
Speaker 14: the Rathfarnam area.
23:08
Speaker 2: On the afternoon of the twenty third of October nineteen
23:10
Speaker 2: eighty six, Thirteen year old Philip Karns left his home
23:14
Speaker 2: in bally Rhan, South County Dublin to go back to
23:16
Speaker 2: school after his lunch break. He was never seen again.
23:21
Speaker 17: He disappeared and it was a huge ministery. There was
23:24
Speaker 17: a lot of at searching donna in the area. This
23:28
Speaker 17: searched the paths and royals he may have he might
23:31
Speaker 17: have used to go back to the school with his
23:33
Speaker 17: regular haunts. His family had said that he never went
23:35
Speaker 17: off before anything. He was going anywhere, he'd always report
23:39
Speaker 17: where he was going.
23:41
Speaker 2: His disappearance sparked a major man hunt at the beginning
23:44
Speaker 2: of an investigation which was the last three decades.
23:48
Speaker 18: Arrived home, I think it was about port to seven,
23:51
Speaker 18: and my eldest daughter Mary, who had come home just
23:56
Speaker 18: previously in the evening, and she discovered that Philip wasn't
24:00
Speaker 18: home and she knew that he would be due home
24:03
Speaker 18: around who past four And as soon as she was
24:09
Speaker 18: waiting for me at the door and she said, Philip
24:11
Speaker 18: is not home yet.
24:12
Speaker 19: Money His mother raised the alarm because she had contacted
24:15
Speaker 19: a few neighbors when she came home and discovered that
24:19
Speaker 19: he hadn't returned to school in the afternoon. We were
24:21
Speaker 19: told and it was an immediate alert.
24:23
Speaker 8: There was always.
24:25
Speaker 19: An immediate alert when a child went missing.
24:28
Speaker 10: There was no resources spared.
24:32
Speaker 5: We worked around well, I won't say a round the clock,
24:36
Speaker 5: but almost round the clock. We worked twelve fourteen to
24:39
Speaker 5: eighteen hour days. There was absolutely unlimited resources. We had
24:44
Speaker 5: visits from the Commissioner encouraging the teams to keep at it.
24:49
Speaker 5: Because the abduction of a child, a thirteen year old child,
24:55
Speaker 5: was something that was It was not in our in
25:00
Speaker 5: our textbooks. It was one of the most intense, detailed call.
25:07
Speaker 5: It devoted men went and women went above and beyond
25:11
Speaker 5: the call of duty because we felt personally affected. It
25:15
Speaker 5: was our area. We had children at schools in the area,
25:20
Speaker 5: and we were also I was as a detective. This
25:25
Speaker 5: could happen again.
25:26
Speaker 8: It was very big at the beginning and was for
25:27
Speaker 8: a long time.
25:29
Speaker 17: The It cut the imagination of the public to this
25:32
Speaker 17: huge sympathy for his family, huge interest in his Squareabolts
25:36
Speaker 17: and the family were very good.
25:38
Speaker 8: At keeping up the pressure as well.
25:41
Speaker 5: It changed the atmosphere even how people, how parents looked
25:47
Speaker 5: after their children, that carefree days of watching your children
25:51
Speaker 5: amble harmlessly after school that Philip Kearn's abduction ended that age.
26:00
Speaker 10: People were frightened from the start.
26:03
Speaker 2: The Kirns case was very unusual. Philip was a quiet, reserved,
26:07
Speaker 2: studious boy, not the sort to take it upon himself
26:10
Speaker 2: to go missing, and he had simply vanished into thin air.
26:16
Speaker 2: The matter took a most unusual twist when his school
26:18
Speaker 2: bag was discovered placed in a laneway days later.
26:22
Speaker 8: GUARDI were sitting. They had checked it early before.
26:24
Speaker 17: There was no bang there then, so it had been
26:27
Speaker 17: left shortly before it was found. The reckoned and reckoned.
26:30
Speaker 17: It was probably put there to set off a false trail.
26:34
Speaker 2: Despite having to deal with dozens of alleged sightings and
26:37
Speaker 2: hundreds of theories about Phillips whereabouts and fate, Guardy had
26:41
Speaker 2: never given up on the case, despite frequent renewed appeals
26:44
Speaker 2: for information across the years.
26:47
Speaker 5: When the weeks and the months went by and there
26:50
Speaker 5: was no sign of Philip kearns Well, I certainly for one,
26:53
Speaker 5: and I know my senior colleagues in the incident room.
26:57
Speaker 10: We felt maybe this is the beginning. We hadn't had.
27:00
Speaker 5: Much about serial abductors or serial killers, but it was
27:04
Speaker 5: in our head at the time that perhaps Philip was
27:08
Speaker 5: going to be the first, so we were very always
27:11
Speaker 5: concernant of that.
27:14
Speaker 2: While most observers believed and still believe he was abducted
27:18
Speaker 2: by a sexual predator, many of the theories about Phillip's
27:21
Speaker 2: disappearance bordered on the bazaar.
27:26
Speaker 17: Yeah, he got totally out of hand jam and people
27:28
Speaker 17: were even named a stuff it might have been involved,
27:29
Speaker 17: and all of it was totally false, And people were
27:32
Speaker 17: talking about different rings of people that might have been
27:35
Speaker 17: operating at the time, the Pedi five rings people were
27:38
Speaker 17: talking about. It could have been adopted by some cultists.
27:41
Speaker 17: It was all bizarre claims, and none of them founded
27:45
Speaker 17: in truth.
27:45
Speaker 5: I spent the Halloween and the Doublin Mountains beside the
27:49
Speaker 5: Hellfire Club with two carloads of our men, waiting for
27:56
Speaker 5: an incident that we were told was going to happen,
27:59
Speaker 5: that it was alive, and that he was going to
28:02
Speaker 5: be sacrificed in the Healthfare Club or in its environce
28:07
Speaker 5: this extraordinary. We took it that serious and we stayed
28:10
Speaker 5: up there. I'll never forget it. It's a weird and
28:13
Speaker 5: a strange, strange with the mysts coming down in the hills,
28:16
Speaker 5: and I had to pinch myself that what we were
28:19
Speaker 5: doing was police work.
28:21
Speaker 10: This is how far we were prepared to go.
28:24
Speaker 5: That we couldn't, like any good investigator.
28:27
Speaker 10: Ignore even the wildest theories.
28:31
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, Aymon Cook's predatory habits finally caught up with him
28:35
Speaker 2: in the early two thousands.
28:38
Speaker 5: When I saw his name, I could not believe. I
28:40
Speaker 5: had to check it with an old colleague of mine.
28:42
Speaker 5: It's just the same Alpha seven. I was his coach
28:44
Speaker 5: signed and it came as a bombshell to me. And
28:48
Speaker 5: hearing the harrowing accounts of what he did to those
28:52
Speaker 5: those children.
28:54
Speaker 10: And I tried a small imagine.
28:59
Speaker 2: Just as local radio began to dominate the media scene,
29:03
Speaker 2: Radio Dublin Now and irrelevance lived on. In nineteen ninety six,
29:07
Speaker 2: an uncharacteristically dapper Cook attended a thirty year anniversary for
29:12
Speaker 2: the station.
29:14
Speaker 4: Staff.
29:14
Speaker 14: Here come way back.
29:17
Speaker 2: At the time, he was known to be still abusing children.
29:21
Speaker 20: If you can stay with us another five years, run
29:24
Speaker 20: another of these events anyway, time, enjoy yourself for the night,
29:29
Speaker 20: and maybe turn into the station every now and then.
29:33
Speaker 8: Thanks for coming.
29:40
Speaker 2: Over the previous decade and before, numerous formal complaints have
29:44
Speaker 2: been made to the Gadhee by his victims.
29:50
Speaker 6: The really terrible thing about this is that we have
29:53
Speaker 6: no idea how many victims there are of aim and Cook,
29:56
Speaker 6: and how many lives he's destroyed.
30:00
Speaker 2: In two thousand and three, Cook was convicted for attempted rape,
30:03
Speaker 2: attempted unlawful kernal knowledge, and sexual and indecent assault to
30:07
Speaker 2: four girls, but the conviction was later quashed on a
30:11
Speaker 2: legal technicality. He was released in May two thousand and six,
30:15
Speaker 2: but was brought again to court, and this time there
30:18
Speaker 2: was no escape.
30:21
Speaker 13: I gave evidence in both of those court cases. The
30:25
Speaker 13: evidence was important because it established that the girl who
30:30
Speaker 13: was twenty nine in the dock was nine at the time,
30:34
Speaker 13: and that she didn't just invent this, that some adults
30:38
Speaker 13: basically me believed her at the time and took action.
30:41
Speaker 7: In two thousand and seven, he was finally convicted of
30:44
Speaker 7: forty two counts of child abuse. Absolutely horrific in nature.
30:49
Speaker 7: These are one of the worst that's ever come. Of course,
30:51
Speaker 7: I've talked to people that actually covered the trial and
30:53
Speaker 7: they said he was just His behavior throughout the trial
30:56
Speaker 7: was absolutely sickening. He did his best to disconcert his
30:59
Speaker 7: victims throughout their evidence.
31:01
Speaker 2: He began his sentence aged seventy one. Most who knew
31:05
Speaker 2: him presumed and hoped that was the last they'd ever
31:08
Speaker 2: see or hear of him.
31:11
Speaker 4: For a Latin. They felt the sensory relief a huge relief,
31:14
Speaker 4: and not so much that he was in prisoned, but
31:18
Speaker 4: that he was off the street and could not abuse again.
31:23
Speaker 2: Aimon Cook was locked up, and for many of his
31:25
Speaker 2: victims the ordeal was over. But it was only his
31:29
Speaker 2: impending death that would lead to the most extraordinary revelation
31:33
Speaker 2: about the pedophile pirate, serial sexual predator and former radio
31:52
Speaker 2: station owner Amon Cook was sentenced to ten years for
31:56
Speaker 2: his crimes in two thousand and seven.
32:00
Speaker 20: To say them along as well.
32:02
Speaker 2: Up to the late nineteen nineties, Cook had been abusing
32:05
Speaker 2: children with impunity.
32:07
Speaker 20: Anyway time enjoy yourself for the night.
32:10
Speaker 2: He remained something of a cult figure in the radio
32:12
Speaker 2: industry and had even accepted the plaudits of those who
32:16
Speaker 2: attended Radio Dublin's thirtieth anniversary party. Most people who knew
32:23
Speaker 2: him and his victims who feared and hated him, felt
32:26
Speaker 2: justice had in some way been done and that they
32:29
Speaker 2: would never see or hear of him again. But like
32:32
Speaker 2: so many times in the past, aim and Cook had
32:36
Speaker 2: not gone away.
32:41
Speaker 7: Nobody had heard landing from Amon Cook, and years he
32:43
Speaker 7: had traded from the headlines. He was rotting away in
32:45
Speaker 7: in prisons, exactly where he deserved to be. And then
32:49
Speaker 7: this bombshell news that he had actually been linked to
32:53
Speaker 7: the disappearance of Philip Karns, one of the most high
32:56
Speaker 7: profile missing person's case in the whole country. Now Aim
32:59
Speaker 7: and coke the monster that is Aymon Cook, what linked
33:02
Speaker 7: to this missing child?
33:05
Speaker 2: Close to death? Cook was being moved from his prison
33:08
Speaker 2: cell in Arbor Hill to a hospice for palliative care.
33:13
Speaker 2: Angela Copley, a community worker and confidante of Cook's estranged
33:17
Speaker 2: wife Jane, received a call.
33:21
Speaker 12: I got a phone called first of all from Jane
33:24
Speaker 12: to telling me that she had got a phone called
33:26
Speaker 12: from the governor in Arbor Hill to tell her Cook
33:30
Speaker 12: was in the matter hospital and he was going to
33:33
Speaker 12: the hospice. And Jane said to why are you ringing me?
33:37
Speaker 8: Why are you telling me?
33:39
Speaker 12: He said, sure, his next sheep Isternus, is next to Kain.
33:43
Speaker 12: She actually did not believe, and she thought he was
33:46
Speaker 12: faking in illness. I really think that that he was
33:49
Speaker 12: going to come out and get her, because she did
33:51
Speaker 12: threaten he was going to kill her.
33:54
Speaker 2: In a phone call to another of Cook's victims, something
33:57
Speaker 2: extraordinary was revealed.
34:00
Speaker 12: In the course of the conversation I had with her.
34:03
Speaker 2: She told me that.
34:06
Speaker 12: A sergeant had told Tory. She said to me, this
34:09
Speaker 12: is sting in detail here naming this sergeant, and he
34:14
Speaker 12: had told her that in twenty eleven, naming a certain
34:20
Speaker 12: person who was a victim of Cook went into rat
34:25
Speaker 12: Barnum and said that she threw this school bag over
34:29
Speaker 12: the all. And I said to her, Jesus be telling
34:34
Speaker 12: me the truth, because you know what I'm going to
34:37
Speaker 12: do with this now, And she said, I am, I am.
34:39
Speaker 10: I wouldn't lie to you.
34:41
Speaker 12: And I hate even saying this now publicly about her
34:46
Speaker 12: because she's not a liar to know, But what she
34:50
Speaker 12: was saying to me got me so all I could
34:53
Speaker 12: think of it, she said the school bag was missus Karen's.
34:58
Speaker 2: We don't know why Cook wasn't interviewed about the allegations
35:01
Speaker 2: when they were made, but with the seventy nine year
35:04
Speaker 2: old on his deathbed, the clock was ticking.
35:08
Speaker 12: I got pretty aggressive at one stage to the guards
35:12
Speaker 12: because I Toash, they should go flying up to the
35:16
Speaker 12: hospice and they shall grab them and jacob out of him.
35:20
Speaker 2: That a serial predator like Cook might be linked in
35:23
Speaker 2: some way to the most baffling missing person's case in
35:26
Speaker 2: Irish history has set the media a light.
35:29
Speaker 5: Maybe all this publicity will bring a breakthrough, a real
35:32
Speaker 5: breakthrough only case, but as of now I'm skeptical.
35:37
Speaker 2: But what substance could there be to the suggestions made
35:40
Speaker 2: by the girl who went to the guardee. The report,
35:44
Speaker 2: which centers around Philip's bag, also claims that Philip Kearns
35:48
Speaker 2: was at Radio Dublin on the day of his disappearance
35:51
Speaker 2: that Amon Cook attacked him, probably killing him.
35:55
Speaker 12: She was in Radio Dublin, she walked into a room
35:58
Speaker 12: she saw Philip Kernes bleeding. She passed certain she woke
36:03
Speaker 12: up into Karen on her way home.
36:06
Speaker 2: Apart from the witness claims that she actually saw Philip
36:09
Speaker 2: Kerns being attacked, there are a number of sides to
36:11
Speaker 2: the story which ring true to a number of people
36:14
Speaker 2: who knew Ayman Cook and what he was capable of.
36:18
Speaker 9: I think the only thing that surprises me about Cook
36:20
Speaker 9: now is that nothing surprises me. I would feel if
36:25
Speaker 9: Philip Kerns is a victim of Amy Cook, he's probably
36:30
Speaker 9: not the only one that's been killed by him.
36:33
Speaker 2: Like every young child, Philip would have been fascinated by
36:36
Speaker 2: the glamour of a radio station, even one has run
36:39
Speaker 2: down and disorganized as Radio Dublin. He might have been
36:42
Speaker 2: persuaded to come for a visit.
36:46
Speaker 13: I think he used the radio station as a magnet
36:49
Speaker 13: and could have said something as simple as would you
36:51
Speaker 13: like to have a look at the station? It's not
36:53
Speaker 13: far away from here. I think that's possible.
36:57
Speaker 2: While It's unlikely Cook would have traveled from inch Core
37:00
Speaker 2: to rath Farnham in the early afternoon. He did have
37:03
Speaker 2: a house nearby, or he may have been in the
37:05
Speaker 2: area at one of his transmitter sites.
37:12
Speaker 19: Kok we do know live not too far away as well.
37:14
Speaker 19: He had a place in the Tala area, which is
37:17
Speaker 19: very very close in proximity to where Philip Kerrents lived
37:21
Speaker 19: in Valley Rowan Road.
37:23
Speaker 13: Cook did drive around with people in the car, quite
37:25
Speaker 13: often children, and I think that probably would have made
37:29
Speaker 13: him look less threatening to anybody a young person being approached.
37:37
Speaker 2: It's also been stated by many commentators that Cook was
37:40
Speaker 2: only interested in young girls, but now there is evidence
37:43
Speaker 2: that he also abused boys. This puts Philip firmly in
37:47
Speaker 2: his target grouping.
37:50
Speaker 13: There's evidence clear evidence that he wasn't selective for there
37:54
Speaker 13: was male or female.
37:56
Speaker 19: Everything is plausible when you're dealing with the likes of Kok.
37:59
Speaker 19: The fact that people said that you know that molested
38:04
Speaker 19: young girls and not young boys, that's just folly in
38:07
Speaker 19: relation to a person who has the mindset to molest anybody.
38:10
Speaker 4: It might appear that Philip didn't fit the profile of
38:13
Speaker 4: his victims at the center. He's young, and vulnerable, and
38:17
Speaker 4: that would be the criteria. Imagine that accreditedly Cook would
38:21
Speaker 4: work on and from that base in more trailer shape,
38:26
Speaker 4: be the male or female.
38:28
Speaker 2: On the other side of the argument, Philip was a quiet,
38:31
Speaker 2: reserve child, someone unlikely to go off with strangers and
38:35
Speaker 2: unlikely to have traveled to somewhere like in Jacoor on
38:38
Speaker 2: his own.
38:39
Speaker 5: Philip Caves was a very very quiet child, and he
38:43
Speaker 5: wasn't jumping on buses and running into town into radio studios.
38:47
Speaker 2: Amon Cook moved around in a very distinctive Jaguar car.
38:52
Speaker 2: Unless he was driving a different vehicle, It's unlikely he
38:55
Speaker 2: lured Philip into his car in broad daylight.
38:58
Speaker 5: His car, He's transport, will be known a child with
39:01
Speaker 5: a uniform from Saint Hender's.
39:04
Speaker 10: It doesn't make any sense to me.
39:07
Speaker 2: And regardless of his violent past, how likely is it
39:10
Speaker 2: that Cook would have attacked a young boy in a
39:13
Speaker 2: busy radio station during the afternoon.
39:16
Speaker 5: Why would aim and Cook if he had vile and
39:19
Speaker 5: horrible intentions and had a desire to hurt that child
39:24
Speaker 5: or to interfere or to predate on him, Why would
39:27
Speaker 5: you bring him into the studios in front of so many.
39:31
Speaker 2: But what substance. Could there be to the suggestions.
39:35
Speaker 19: Certain parts of what was said have been corroborated by
39:39
Speaker 19: Cook himself in the hospice. Now this is vital and
39:42
Speaker 19: very very important, because no matter what people say, you
39:45
Speaker 19: must look for corroboration in relation to it.
39:47
Speaker 18: And we have that.
39:49
Speaker 2: And what about Philip's school bag? The most unusual thing
39:52
Speaker 2: about this whole case is the fact that the bag
39:55
Speaker 2: appeared days later. If Amon Cook killed Philip and then
40:00
Speaker 2: disposed of his body, would he, as the witness claims,
40:03
Speaker 2: have wanted the bag to reappear.
40:06
Speaker 5: It's still a mystery. There was all kinds of theories
40:10
Speaker 5: flying around. Was it somebody trying to throw the investigation team.
40:15
Speaker 10: Off the trail of the culprit? But what could he
40:18
Speaker 10: have gained? What possibly gained could he have?
40:20
Speaker 17: Perhaps if he was responsible, he may have panicked he
40:24
Speaker 17: had the school bag, didn't know what to do with it,
40:26
Speaker 17: and thought the handiest thing might be to do is
40:28
Speaker 17: to get somebody to bring it back to near the house,
40:31
Speaker 17: somewhere between.
40:31
Speaker 8: The house and the school.
40:33
Speaker 17: And it's alleged that he bullied either one or maybe
40:37
Speaker 17: two girls to go there and dump it there.
40:40
Speaker 5: I could never understand why the bag was brought back.
40:44
Speaker 5: It made no sense. Why not why not bury it
40:47
Speaker 5: with the with Philip? But why not dump it somewhere
40:50
Speaker 5: where it would never be found again? Or why not
40:53
Speaker 5: burn it?
40:55
Speaker 2: But if DNA from the bag can be linked to
40:57
Speaker 2: the woman who says she left it there, we'll be
41:00
Speaker 2: a step closer to knowing the truth. It's unlikely, however,
41:04
Speaker 2: to provide definitive proof that Cook killed Philip Kearns.
41:09
Speaker 16: If there's little rumors here there and yonder, I do
41:11
Speaker 16: seek out here there in Yonder it strange hours of.
41:15
Speaker 14: Day and night.
41:15
Speaker 16: Of course I could cop up here, there and everywhere,
41:18
Speaker 16: and he done.
41:21
Speaker 2: For over thirty years, Amon Cook was an integral part
41:24
Speaker 2: of the Irish pirate radio scene. His voice was a
41:28
Speaker 2: familiar sound on his own radio station. Many believe he
41:32
Speaker 2: made a contribution to the development of Irish radio. Any contribution, however,
41:38
Speaker 2: is far outweighed by his pernicious, violent and predatory treatment
41:43
Speaker 2: of vulnerable children.
41:46
Speaker 7: When he was being sentenced for raping girls, young young
41:52
Speaker 7: girls for people whose lives here in, one of them
41:55
Speaker 7: shattered at him in the court, I hope you rot
41:56
Speaker 7: in hell, and that's all he deserves.
41:59
Speaker 19: The one thing about Pete it's nearly correct right across
42:02
Speaker 19: the board, is that they do not believe what they're
42:05
Speaker 19: doing is wrong. And that's a huge problem because if
42:09
Speaker 19: somebody commits a crime like a moraler, perhaps the crime
42:11
Speaker 19: of passion, they would feel remorse at a very short
42:14
Speaker 19: time and they can be rehabilitated into society. Not everybody,
42:18
Speaker 19: but most of them can. Would pedophise very rarely because
42:22
Speaker 19: as far as they're concerned, there's nothing They're doing nothing wrong,
42:25
Speaker 19: and they can't see what the fuss is all about.
42:27
Speaker 19: And there lies a huge, huge problem. And in relation
42:30
Speaker 19: to Cook and his arrogance, in relation to all these matters,
42:33
Speaker 19: it would be typical that he could never be rehabilitated.
42:37
Speaker 19: Debt took him away.
42:38
Speaker 10: From what he was doing.
42:39
Speaker 7: He was an absolute monster. He was a vicious psychopath
42:43
Speaker 7: and a predator, a rapist, a pedophile. He was just
42:46
Speaker 7: the worst human being you could ever imagine. So do
42:48
Speaker 7: I think he's capable of murdering a child and covering
42:50
Speaker 7: it up? I must certainly do.
42:52
Speaker 2: What we do know about Aim and Cook is disturbing
42:55
Speaker 2: and disgusting. And while we may never know the real truth,
43:00
Speaker 2: pattern of behavior over many decades indicates that he is
43:03
Speaker 2: someone who could very likely be involved in the disappearance
43:07
Speaker 2: and death of Philip Karnes.
43:11
Speaker 4: He was welly capable of it when you see the
43:14
Speaker 4: stories that came out. But he abused youngsters the way
43:17
Speaker 4: he nurtured him and kept vot Alan and then then
43:20
Speaker 4: finally views in his own home, he was capable of
43:24
Speaker 4: doing it.
43:25
Speaker 13: I think Emon Cook was was capable of pretty much anything.
43:29
Speaker 13: I think obviously the circumstances surrounding the Philip Kerns disappearance
43:37
Speaker 13: still isn't clear, but it certainly to me sounds like
43:45
Speaker 13: somebody as evil as Amon Cook was probably behind
44:01
Speaker 2: No