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Murdaugh Murders: WAS MAGGIE MURDAUGH KILLED WITH FAMILY GUN? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece, Another day full of bombshells
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and the Alex Murnog double murdered trial. The jury has
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: just taken us lunch break and we are Life at
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the Courthouse bringing you the very latest. Got an all
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: star panel of guests to break down what is happening
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: in the courtroom right now as Alex Murnod, flanked by
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: his fleet of lawyers, listens as the evidence pours from
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: the witness stand. A lot happening in court today. Today
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: for the first time, we see the family of Gloria
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Sadderfield speaking out. And when I saw, I mean he
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: looked like a young boy to me on the stand
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: talking about how nearly four million dollars was stolen from
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: his family after Miss Saderfield falls to her death down
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: the Murdoch steps. You know, I'm surprised he didn't break
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: down crying about the death of his mother. And I
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: can tell you another thing. I love the way this
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: judge is handling the courtroom. He's moving it along, moving along,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: never rude, never kurt. But the minute one witness finishes,
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: he says, call your next witness. He keeps it moving.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: I mean it's he Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thanks
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: for being with us here at Fox Nation and Serious
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: X one eleven. First of all, straight out to the
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: front of the courthouse standing by Kelly Ski and senior
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: producer with me at Crime Stories, Kelly, thank you for
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: being with us. Kelly, we were on the cusp, the
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: cusp of hearing ballistics match up. Did you hear the
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: last questions being asked of agent Career? And I really
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: like this guy because there's a lot of male testosterone
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: prancing around the courtroom and this guy is very low key,
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: he's very mild mannered and he comes across It's very
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: believable to me. And when he said one of the
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: last items he was talking about was from the left
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: shoulder and the head of Paul Murdog, that really brought
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: it all home. What this is all about, Kelly? Who
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: is this guy? And what do you think he's going
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: to tell us? Nancy? This is a special agent Paul Greer.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: And actually, in a pre trial motion, the defense tried
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: tooth and mail really tried to throw it out one
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: last Hail Mary to block his testimony from being allowed
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: in court. What we are expecting to hear based on
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: what we've heard from him before the trial started, is
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: he is going to say that the gun that Maggie
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Murdoch was killed with is a gun from the Murdoch property.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: So we are expecting him to say that the markings
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: on the three hundred blackout shell casings actually match markings
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: on other three hundred blackout shell casings that were already
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: on their Murdoch property. And what we heard from Pald
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Murdoch's friend earlier this week was that the two of
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: them actually used a three hundred blackout months before the murders.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: So they are going to try and match those shell
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: casings to the ones found near Maggie Murdoch's body. And
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: like I said, this is a witness that the defense
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: did not want to be allowed at trial. But here
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: we are. Hey, if I could get Christine in our
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: New York control room, can you show Greer video again.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: This is the witness that I like so much. I mean,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: I've liked a lot of the witnesses, but this guy
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: comes in. He's all business, but he's very laid back
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: and mild mannered, and I like the way he's speaking
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: to this jury, very conversational, and that's what jurors need
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: to hear, frankly, from every witness, but especially from a
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: witness that is dealing with scientific data. And that is why.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: And let me throw this to you, Dell Carson, high
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: profile lawyer joining me out of Jacksonville. And this is
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: something that I like about Dell Carson. Not that he's
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: a defense attorney. Don't like that. I like that he's
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: a former agent with the FBI, Dell. That is why
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: I know they hated to see that old County Crown
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: VIC pull up to the front of the crime lab
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: or the morgue because I would be getting out deal
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Carson to go through their report line by line to
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: try to encourage them to speak regular people talk and
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: not scientific talk. That's what I like about this witness, Greer.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: He's making it easy for everybody to understand, even if
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: they don't have a ballistics background. I think he is
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: being very simple and it conveys well to the jury.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: And what I heard him use the word decontaminate, and
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: then he immediately followed with the word touch, which is
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: what he's talking about. So he's removed removing all the
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: extremely complicated scientific terms and speaking directly to the jury
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: and in that way, it makes himself extremely credible. And
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: you know you said he's making it simple. He is
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: by no means a simpleton, because when I heard his
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: background and how he is already conducted thousands and thousands
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: ballistics comparisons, this guy is anything but a simpleton. Joining
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: me also, Cheryl McCollum, forensic expert, knows their way around
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: a shotgun, I can tell you that much. And director
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: of the Cold Case Research Institute, way in, Cheryl McCollum,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: you know, what he's doing is a beautiful job in
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: explaining something that could be for somebody that's never handled
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: a firearm somewhat confusing. So he's going to explain very
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: clearly what this bird shot is. So when you have
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: a shotgun and it's filmed with you know, birdshot, a
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: butt shot. These little bitty pellets, and if you stand
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: two feet from a door and you have a handful
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: of let's say a hundred, and you throw them at
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: that door, it's gonna be a tight pattern. They're not
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: going to spread very far. But the reason people use
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: these for hunting birds is the further it goes, the
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: more they spread out. So you're almost guaranteed to hit
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: your target. You know, Cheryl McCollum, when you're striking a jury,
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: you should never ever judge a book by its cover.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: But when you said, he's making it easy for people
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: that don't handle firearms to understand. There's one lady. I
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: love this lady. The judge keeps the courtroom so cold,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: bat me up Kelly's skin so the jurars will stay awake.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: I know that for a fact because I had an
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: insider tell me that. And they get up and they
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: get down, they stress their legs and keep them awake.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: There's one jurar in there, Cheryl McCollum, that she brings
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: a blanket with her and she pulls it all the
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: way up, kind of like this up manager. And you
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: know she's all bundled up. And I see those eyes
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: looking over that blankets, hearing it. The winn is. She
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: never nods off. She never, I never. I've never seen
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: her blink. But I don't see her out on the
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: range coming guns loaded, you see what I mean. So
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: I like the way this guy is talking. So back
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: to U. Kles can tell me one more time how
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: you think he's gonna zip it up? How is he
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: gonna you know button it up at the end for me. Sure.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: So what we are expecting from this witness after the
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: break is essentially in a nutshell. The point that he's
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: going to make is that Maggie Murdoch was killed with
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: a family gun that had previously been at Moselle. We
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: are expecting him to say that the markings on shellcasings
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: next to Maggie's body match other shell casings at a
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: different location on the property. And to your point about
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: the courtroom being very cold, I did notice that juror
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: had a blanket today and I also even noticed the
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: judge yawning at some point. While there are bombshell after
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: bombshell after bombshell in this trial, there's also a lot
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: of just kind of monotonous testimony, whether it's financial crimes
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: or the types of casings on the bullet or you know,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: the types of casings, the types of bullets, the types
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: of guns. Kelly, it's a lot of stuff that Kelly, Please, yes,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: it's not boring. It's what we in the biz called
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: laying a foundation. And unless you lay that foundation, and
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: believe me, if not, heartpoolling and somebody on his team
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: will jump up in a minute and say that can't
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: come in. They didn't lay the foundation. There's a very
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: clear and intricate foundation that must be laid for every bullet,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: every shell casing, every item that comes into evidence, and
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: it can be very, very painstaking. And speaking of yawning,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Miss Kelly, I just saw heartpoolling the lead defense attorney yawn.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: I mean when we were little, little in Kinsey Garten,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: we were taught don't yawn. It's rude. Couldn't he stifle
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: it for Pete's sake. He's the lead defense attorney. He's
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: yawning in front of the jury. He might be yawning
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: in front of the jury. But something else I saw
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: today is Alex Murdock is definitely not yawning. He is
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: looking at every single one of those jurors as they
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: file into the courtroom and following them all the way
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: to their seat. He stands. He's very tall, you cannot
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: miss his presence. He's not yawning. He's even pointing out
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: exhibits on the screen. And like we talked about yesterday,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: playing a very active role in his defense. Well, maybe
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: he can give Heartpool in a little elbow action to
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: keep heartpoolian awake. Once they teach Heartpoolian how to work
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: an iPhone, Christine out of the control room, could you
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: please let's take it out of order. Let's go to
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: our cut nine. Take a list of this everybody. If
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: you had the passcode, right, open it. Without the passcode,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: typically you can't open it. Great, No, sir, you agree
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: with it. I did answer each other. So if you
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: had that passcode, you can open it, delete photos, delete
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: phone messages, delete text, delete whatever you want. Correct, yes, sir, okay? Um.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: And whether you found that phone it was wat Yes,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: there it was okay And um was there any evidence
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: that you saw that anything had been deleted by that
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: from that phone in any of your um after your
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: download extraction? Again, I did not download are extracted at
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: the contents of the device. The only thing that I
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: saw was the home screen and made sure that the
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: airplane mode was applicating or applied at that point. Crime
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. If you had the pass code right,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: open it without the passcode, typically you can't open it. Correct, No, sir,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: you agree with you. I did guess her uppaping shot.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: So if you had that passcode, you could open it,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: delete photos, delete phone messages, delete text, delete whatever you want, correct, yes, sir, okay? Um.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: And when you found that phone it was why, yes, sir,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: it was okay? And um was there any evidence that
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: you saw that anything had been deleted by that from
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: that phone in any of your um after your download extraction? Again,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: I did not download or extracted at the contents of
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: the device. The only thing that I saw was the
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: home screen and made sure that the airplane mode was
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: advocated to apply to that point, and then it was
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: placed into an avid expanse. So, Kelly, is someone on
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: the defense team unfamiliar with an iPhone? It seems to
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: be Nancy. You just heard Dylan high Tower. He's with
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: the fourteenth Circuit Solicitor's Office, and yesterday he and Dick
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: harpoolet we harpooletin we're going back and forth on how
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: to put a phone in airplane mode. We've heard a
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: lot about a faro bag and putting phones into airplane
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: mode so they can't be tampered with. There was a
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: bit of a back and forth there about how can
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: you put a phone into airplane mode? And as most
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: iPhone users know, you can do that without the pass code.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: And another funny moment kind of in court was they
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: were going back and forth about how Maggie Murdoch's phone
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: could have gotten on the side of the road. They
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: were talking about do you throw your phone overhand? Do
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: you throw it underhand? And high Tower said I would
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: simply just fling it out the window like that, and
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: that really seemed to stop Alec Murdock's defense in their
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: tracks there and they stopped their question. Yeah, you know what,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: my ninety one year old mother can work an iPhone
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: better than anybody I know, so maybe she can give
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Hartpooling a lesson on how to work an iPhone. Speaking
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: of iPhone side, I want to go off on a tangent,
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: but sorry Christaine, once again I got to go out
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: of order. Can we please play cut five? Speaking of
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: deleted items on a cell phone, It's not Maggie's cell phone.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: I'm worried about. Take a listen to this specifically with
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Alex's phone. What did you discover when you're comparing these
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: phone records to the phone itself the call log. Once
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: I started, I essentially built a digital timeline, evolve forms
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: and digital evidence that we had had during that time frame.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: On the Dayton question on June seventh, I only saw
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: two FaceTime calls on the phone extraction, and I saw
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: a series of around seventy three phone calls on the
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Verizon call detail record. I'm good. And what did that
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: tell you when you saw that that missing information? It
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: could be a multitude of things. They were either removed
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: by the user or the one responsible or using the device.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: It could have overlapped from the call og history. That
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: could have been a series of things. So you didn't
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: recover any deleted artifacts of the phone call necessary, I didn't.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: When I say deleted artifacts, what does that mean? Anything
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: that was manually deleted from the device itself overlapped from
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: call log history. You know, in all my years of
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: using cell phones, I've never had that happen. And I've
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: actually never known an instance where I've had items deleted
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: without me doing it myself. So, Cheryl McCollum, what are
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: they saying, Because I'm interpreting it to mean that Murdo
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: deleted seventy three phone calls on Jus seven, the same
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: day his wife and son were murdered. That's exactly how
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: I interpret it. And Nancy, this could be one of
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: those money trees that not only tightened that timeline, but
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: so exactly that this person was trying to get rid
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: of some type of communication that he made with the victims,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: and you know, possibly other people as well. That many.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: But if let's say he takes in her or spent
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: her a voicemail that was less than romantic, he wants
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: to get rid of that to show that they weren't
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: having any kind of trouble. Remember, their marriage is as
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: good as it can be. He doesn't want any voicemail
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: where he was cussing at her or using any type
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: of bulgarity toward her. And in your situation, he wants
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: to get rid of those text messages where he lured
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: her there, or even she told her friend, hey, something's up.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: He's acting fishing. That is exactly what I'm thinking, because
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: we got it clearly yesterday that he murdog lured Maggie
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: there under the guise of, Hey, my dad's about to die.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: I need you to come to Moselle. We need to
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: go visit him. I'd like to point out he didn't
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: go visit his dad that night, and she didn't go
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: visit the dad that night that we know of, So
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: that was all just a big ruse. R Brandt, Senior Inspector,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: US Marshall's Service, International Investigations author with DJ, I mean
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: the US government has sent Or Brandt all around the
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: world in prosecutions. Or brand thank you for being with us.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Seventy three missing calls from Alex Murdock's phone. All right,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: that could be an accident, but how likely is it
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: to be an accident the night his wife and son
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: are murdered and investigations. You don't believe in a coincidence,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: and you don't believe in accidents. This was obviously a
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: deliberate act and it's devastating to the fence. The jurors
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: are going to see it as he's trying to cover
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: up and he's trying to get rid of evidence that
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: doesn't gel with his alibi. You know you said that
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: so perfectly, so succinctly, Or Brandt, or Michelle Dupree joining
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: me there in South Carolina, forensic pathologist, medical examiner, former
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: detective and author, and this says it all of homicide
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Investigation field guide. She's a d Michelle du premd dot com,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: doctor dupre thank you for being with us. I want
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: to circle back to what we heard just before we
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: came out of the courthouse Paul Greer, Special Agent Paul
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Greer on the stand. He was just presented States exhibits
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: and he described them as bullets from the left shoulder
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: and head of Paul Murdog. I just wanted that is
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: soakin just a moment, doctor dupre How many times have
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: you dug a bullet out of a dead body? More
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: than I can count? How do you do it? Well?
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: You are very careful to not put extra markings on
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: the bullet, so you typically you photograph everything, You document
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: everything on a sketch, and then when you remove the bullet,
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: you go adjacent to it to take the bullet out
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: so that you do not place markings on it. But
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: I want to say something about what he said. He
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: said that plastic was recovered from the left shoulder and
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: head of Paul. This is most likely wadding, And in
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: my experience, I am not a firearms examiner. However, in
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: my experience, wadding that actually enters a body or causes
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: injury from a shotgun typically goes only about six feet
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: or so. Now it can go much farther than that,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: but to find it in a body, this places that
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: shooter probably within about six feet of the victim, Dodger Dupree,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Could you just put it in slow mo and say
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: that very carefully and slowly what you just said, because
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I find that extremely important As to I Nancy, the autopsy,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: according to the person that was just speaking, found plastic
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: in Paul's wound in the left shoulder and head. That
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: plastic is most likely part of the shotgun wadding that
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: was described by Agent Grier, who is awesome by the way.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: But what that indicates to me is that the wadding
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: can travel a distance. And I'm not a firearms examiner,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: but in my experience it typically only travels about six
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: feet or so to enter the body if gravity takes
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: over and it falls down after that. So to me,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: this tells me that the shooter was probably about six
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: feet or so from Paul when he was shot, six
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: feet or less because wadding typically travels, as you just said,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: about six feet. Now, this goes hand in hand with
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: the theory of a close range shooting, which completely defeats
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: the defense theory that there's probably two as selants. It
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: shows me that all of this was close range. People
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: were moving, so the trajectory path the angle of the
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: bullets means less and less and less. We've got stipling,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: we've got wadding inside the wound side Paul's body. Again,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: that shows close range contact. And Cheryl McCollum explain what
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: is wadding and how does it get into the body?
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: It travels with the bullet when you're talking about a shotgun,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: for sure, absolutely, and this shooter left nothing to chance
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: who was not going to shoot from a distance. So
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: when the projectile is released from the weapon, the wadding
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: comes with it and it will be separated. Usually you'll
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: find it, you know, near, but in this case we
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: have evidence of it being in Paul's body, which if
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: you include the length of that weapon. You're talking the
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: shooter might have been six feet away, but that weapon
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: could have been three to two feet away. Go ahead.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: It's a plastic cup in which all of the the
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: actual rounds, either the bird shot or the nine ball
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: from a buckshot, centers in. So the buckshot comes right
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: as a cup out of the firearm and that's what
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: we're talking about here, that went into the body. And
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: Cheryl's are absolutely right. You know, that shows extremely close
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: range and the fact that there are forty eight actual
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: pellets found in the shoulder area means that it has
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: to be close range. Anything over that you're gonna have
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: not quite so many actual rounds in the body. Absolutely So, Nancy,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: think of a saucer and then a plate and then
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: a flatter, and then it's bigger than that. So you're
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: talking about a saucer. That's how tight these projectiles were
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: in a math. Christine in the control room, could you
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: show me a picture please, of Paul and Maggie or
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: a single shot of each one of them, because it's
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: easy when we're talking about watting on bullets, it's I
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: found this bullet, and I found that cartridge, and these
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: people were shot brutally repeatedly. Look at Maggie Kelly. How
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: many times was Maggie Murdoch's shot as she was running?
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: She was running Kelly, she saw her SunShot first. I believe,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: according to what we know right now, she saw and
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: heard that and she's running for her life. And when
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: I look at them, I look at their faces and
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: I imagine seeing your son, your child shot and then
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: suddenly you're running for your life. You're torn between trying
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: to save him and running, and then you're gunned down
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: and you know who your killer is. This isn't some hypothetical.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: This lovely lady, this devoted mother to raising these two boys,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: to working to being a mom, is gounned down in
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: a dog kennel along with her baby boy. And yes,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: I say baby boy. My son is six foot four.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Well he's six foot five now and he's still my
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: baby boy. I mean, is that getting lost on anybody
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: in the courtroom, Kelly, This is the basis for the
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: premeditation too. You're right. I'm gonna circle back on that
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: go ahead kill. So we know that Maggie was shot
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: at least five times, and what we've learned from the
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: prosecution is that she was shot second. So in all likelihood,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: she saw her own son Paul being shot, tried to
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: run away and was shot five times. Some of those
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: shots were execution style. Okay, I think that was you Dale,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: go ahead up him? It wasn't you know? The premeditation
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: becomes brother obvious. If he is in fact guilty, then
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: he had to stage the weapons, and he had to
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: have them present in the area where everybody would be
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: when they're tending to the dogs, and he's able to
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: grab the shotgun shoot his son first, and then he
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: has the other weapon in case there's a flaw with
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: the first shotgun, and then he can use the second
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: gun as his wife runs away. Because of course, distance
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: makes it more difficult to kill somebody with a shotgun.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: So that all plays into the premeditation that the prosecution
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: will ultimately bring to bear against the defense. Go ahead there,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Dail's a hundred percent right. And if you listen to
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: what Alex Burdoch said in his statement to police, he
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: told us how he did it. He said that he
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: and Paul had been out on the four wheeler looking
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: for hogs to shoot. Well, both of them would have
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: had a weapon. He would have circled back around with
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: that fore wheeler. Those two weapons were right there at
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: the rage. You know, Irv Brandt joining me, You're saying
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: so many cases all around the world, But I'm just
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: thinking about the dynamic between Paul and Maggie. Maggie has
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: been standing by for years, watching her marriage deteriorate. And
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: if you really love your children, you want your marriage
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: to work, you want their father to be there. And
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: she has stood by and seeing alleged drug abuse, stealing money,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: exorbitant spending and if you are on drugs, you have
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: these wild mood swings, losing the money, just losing everything,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: and all that leads to this moment where she is
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: gunned down in a dog kennel. And that's exactly right, Nancy.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: Everyone has a breaking point, no matter how much you
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: love your child, no matter how much you love your husband,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: the amount of things that are just stacking up and
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: keep stacking up would drive her to the point of confrontation,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: maybe threats. She obviously becomes a liability, and also her
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: child becomes a liability. And like said before, with two weapons,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: if you have them staged out, that was a cold
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: blooded act to use the shotgun first, then to pick
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: up the rifle because you didn't want to take the
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: time to reload the shotgun. Then go to the rifle,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: then bring a person down, then walk up and do
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: a close range kill shot. Just completely completely cold blooded
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: actions and premeditated actions. Kelly ski and joining me. Kelly
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: has just walked out of the courtroom. So did Murdog
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: start crying again today? You know, I'm looking at the
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: back of his head, so I did not see him
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: crying today. But what I did see right before I
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: left is an older lady who I'm still working to identify,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: blew him a kiss. She was sitting with the Murdoch family.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: He gave her a very very big smile and a
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: thumbs up. It's one of the first kind of shows
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: of emotion outside of crying or just giving somebody the
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: steatlide stare that I've seen for Murdoch so far. And
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: I want to say one more thing about Maggie Murdoch.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: What we've also learned is that in all likelihoods, she
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: actually picked up and bought the weapon that she was
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: murdered with, and I think that just speaks to the
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: tragedy of this entire thing. Guys, I want to go
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: back into the courtroom for you to hear the testimony yourself. Christine,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to get his back on track. Thank you
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: for going with me. Let's go to our cut three.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: I'm just wondering how, if, and how Alex Murdog discarded
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: his bloody clothing. Take a listen to Special Agent Katie
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: McAlister on searching the house. Once I arrived on seeing
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: myself along especially to Croft, were asked to go up
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: to the main house to do search of the property.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Or of the home. Did you have a search warrant?
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: There was a search warrant? Yes, Was that search warrant executed?
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: It was not? Why not? At the time of my arrival,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: multiple family, close friends were at the house. Rather than
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: executing the search warrant and displacing all of those people,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: we asked for consent and we were given it. And
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: we're a lot of people at that residence at the time.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: There were You could give us kind of a rough
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: estimate of the amount of people that were there. I
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: would say maybe twenty or twenty five people were in
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: the home when you walked through the house where you along,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: I was not who was with you. I believe it
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: was John Marvin Murdoch and leco So. John Marvin Murdoch
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: is Murdoch's brother. Guys, they had permission to go into
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: the home. But del Carson, that does not impress me
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: at all that Alex murdog or one of his family
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: gave permission. They're all lawyers. They know how bad it
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: looks if you go, hey, no, you're not coming in
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: our house. You got to go get a search warrant
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: because they know SLED has already probably got a search
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: warrant as it is, so they gave permission, even so
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: they should remove everybody from the house. It's seen contamination.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: When you have other people at your shoulder watching what
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: you're doing, you're not going to perform exactly what needs
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: to happen, and that means a thorough search, and that
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: doesn't happen amid a bunch of people. That happens when
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: you put crime tape around the house and you really
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: do a thorough search. And the fact that they didn't
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: do that makes me wonder why they simply allow somebody
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: to consent to the search. In Florida, you're commanded to
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: execute the search warrant. That's a judge's authorization telling you
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: to go do it, and it doesn't allow for taking
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: someone's consent because that affects the actual carrying of the evidence,
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: the location the evidence, all of those things are affected
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: by all of these people being in the house and
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: the people's place stayed in the home or not if
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: they left to do the search. Go ahead, doctor Dupree, Well,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: that's exactly right. This is very reminiscent of the John
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Bona Ramsey case where the same thing happened and that
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: crime scene was a disaster from the beginning, and I'm
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: wondering about this search. You do not allow other people
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: to be in the house. Well, I haven't heard anything
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: suggesting that there was a bad search other than Del
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: Carson and doctor Michelle dupree. Do we know anything about
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: a bad search, Kelly skin or Cheryl McCallum, because I
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: haven't heard a word about it other than people were
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: walking around in the dog kennel. I know that. But
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: when you find two dead bodies, for Pete's sake, your
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: first concern is not, hey, back off. Your concern is
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: are they dead or alive? What can we do, if anything,
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: to save them? Is there a sheeter on the grounds?
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot to take in so second
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: guessing anything they do. I don't know that if that's appropriate.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: It may not, but it does. Anybody had a sintilla
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: of evidence that there was a bad search? Now, if
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: there was, fine, we'll deal with it. But if there's
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: not a bad search, then let's move forward. Does anybody
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: have even a shred of evidence that the interior of
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: the Mozille hunting Lodge was a subject of a bad search? Yes? No, okay,
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: let's move forward. Sled agent McAllister looking for potential bloody clothes?
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: What if anything? Did she? Fine? Take a list of
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: the hour cut four. Did you search the bedrooms? I
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: didn't you find any clothes, shoes, any evidence of clothing
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: that would have blood on it or indicated head blood
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: on it or tissue, anything that you saw in any
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: of the bedrooms. How many bedrooms? Several? Several? You looked
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: at all of them? Yes, looked under the bed I did.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: In the closets, I did see any evidence of any
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: quotes that had been involved in these were altercations that
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: had left blood or tissue or brains. See anything like
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: that in any one of those rooms. Start find anything
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: like that. Okay, guys, um, I'm reviewing my notes and
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: guess what. You're right and I'm wrong. Okay, I'm eating
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: a dirt sandwich. Wait a minute, I'm eating a dirt
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: sandwich here, all right, And to you too, doctor, doctor dupree,
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: there were all those people in the house during the search.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: You're right, and that's a very bad move. I don't.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: That doesn't mean anything was done inappropriately, That doesn't mean
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: that the evidence was not secured, but it's it gives
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: you a much higher likelihood, doctor Dupree, that things can
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: go wrong, and yes, it is reminiscent of the Jominy
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Ramsey case, when witnesses were not asked to leave. There
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: were family friends there, a lot was happening. They needed
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: to all leave, and they take the witnesses separately and
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: interview them immediately. And I'm looking at my notes here
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: and there were twenty to twenty five people in the
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: house during the search, So you're right, and I'm enjoying
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: dirt sandwich right now, doctor degree Nancy. One of the
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: things that they forgot to do was to check all
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: the drain lines, and that's something you always do in
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: a case like this to determine whether that or not
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: there's any biologic material in the drain lines, and you
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: do that with luminol and other processes, and that was
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: never done. You're right, what about it, doctor, Yes, that
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: is certainly one thing that should be done. You would
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: always check for that. In case the perpetrator took a shower,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: there will be evidence of blood or other biological material
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: in those areas. And we know that Alex did change club.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys remember the Chris Pine
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: case where a young man was accused of murdering his
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: own mother. There's a long backstory to that, but I
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: remember blood being found in the drains, and it turns
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: out that the killer had taken a nice long bath
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: and probably shaved, but definitely a long bath or shower
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: after the murder in the home where the mom was murdered.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: So again, what killer would do that if they were
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: worried about being discovered, other than someone in the family
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: that knew their way around the home and knew nobody
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: was coming home. What killer commits a bloody murder and
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: then goes in to the family bathroom and takes a
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: bubble bath for Pete's sake. So they're both right. Guys
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: were talking about what's going down in the courtroom today,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: but I want you to hear more evidence about motive.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: Take listen to our cut seven. It's fair to say
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: that of June twenty twenty one and the months after,
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: the indebtedness to Kalimeta State Bank from Alec Murdoch was
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: very very large, Yes, sir, it's fair to say it
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: also had charged off loans in the past. Is that
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: pro yes? Sorry, If it had come out at any
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: particular time from let's say two thousand and ten on
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: up to June of twenty twenty one, or at any
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: time that Alec Murdoch had done stealing money from his
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: partners or stealing money from his clients, wouldn't this bank
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: have continued to loan him money? No, sorry, okay, money
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: money money now. Take a listen to Chris Wilson on
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: the stand in our cut. One September the third, two
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: twenty one, about three o'clock in the afternoon, when mister
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Lee Cooke called me. The first question he asked me,
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: was I still holding seven hundred ninety two thousand dollars
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: in my firm? And I said yes, I am, And
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: he said, well, we need to get that money paid
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: to us. They had discovered a check that I think
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: I remember him telling me that was from me to
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: Elik in the firm, and that they had discovered that
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: Elik was stealing money from the firm and from clients.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: The next morning I tried to call him. He called
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: me back and said he would meet me in our
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: meta at his mom and daddy's house. Told me that
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: he had had a drug problem, that he was addicted
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: to opioids. He told me that he had that he
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: had been stealing money. I was so mad. I'd love
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: the guy for so long, and I probably still loved
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: him a little bit, but I was so mad. Kell
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: A Skin describe that moment in the courtroom watching Chris
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: Wilson testify against his once best friend from law school.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: They were even roommates at one point, was absolutely heartbreaking.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: At one point he needed to take a break and
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: compose himself on the stand and when he left, Alec
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Murdoch was staring at him, waiting for him to look over.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: This is his former best friend. He just wants to
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: look at him, and Chris Wilson looks down at the ground,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: would not make eye contact with Alec Murdoch and was
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: sniffling on his way out of court. It was absolutely heartbreaking.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: And something else we learned from Chris Wilson is after
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: that confrontation that he had with Alec Murdoch at his parents' house,
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: Chris Wilson walked away from that encounter thinking that Alec
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Murdoch was going to kill himself. And not long after that, actually,
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: on Chris Wilson's drive home, he got the call that
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Alec had been shot. Wow to Cheryl McCollum. You know,
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: so often we see well what is claimed to have
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: been an attempted murder suicide, and then somehow it turns
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: out to be just a murder. The thought that Alex
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: Murdock would kill himself, I don't see it. He loves
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: himself above everything else. I just don't see it. It
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: could have been another stunt to engage sympathy. I mean,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: we saw O. J. Simpson do the same thing, Michael Jackson.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: You know, he acted like he was gonna harm himself
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: as well, or wrote a note. A lot of times
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: it's just to invoke sympathy for people to say, oh no,
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: this is how it's set they are, this is how
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: much you know they care about what they did wrong.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: And sometimes it's just another level of their cond But
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: this is another insurance scam, is what it really was? Right,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: If he didn't commit suicide and somebody shot him, then
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: there'd be a double payout to his son Buster. Yeah,
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: but only if I'll tell you why. If they really
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: wanted to kill Murdog to get that money, Curtis Eddie
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: Smith with he just shot him again. I just don't
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: think that's what happened. I think was intentionally amiss a grazing,
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: so people would believe that the same person that killed
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Paul and Maggie went after Murdoch. I think that was
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: the whole thing, because if the deal was shoot me dead,
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: I want my only living side to get that multimillion
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: dollar life insurance policy, then he would have just shot him. Again.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: That did not happen. Jump in So I agree, Nancy.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: This is the South we learn about firearms and handling
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: guns when we learned our ABC's. If he would have
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: somebody would have wanted to shoot him, Dad, he would
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: be dead by now. Yeah, there were plenty of bullets
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: in that chamber. If they were if Chris Edward Smith
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: one of murdogh dead, he would have been dead. Time
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. You know another thing happened just
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: before the judge broke for lunch to Kelly Skin and
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Fox Nation producer joining us just coming out of the courtroom.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: There were no fingerprints at all on the gun or
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: the phone. And I'm talking about Paul's phone, and I
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: find that very odd because Paul had been on his
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: phone right up till the time of his martyr Yeah, Nancy,
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: think about a phone. It's in our hands all day,
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: every day. There are fingerprints all over it. And today
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: we heard from a fingerprint expert that there there was
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: not that there wasn't any fingerprints on his phone, but
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: there was nothing that he could pull off of it,
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: So that strikes me as very odd. He also didn't
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: find any usable fingerprints on any of the guns that
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: he was given. And something that I want to keep
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: an eye on is if you remember when Alec Murdoch
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: was being interviewed by police in the car, he asked
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: police if anybody had gotten fingerprints off of Maggie's phone.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: So fingerprints are definitely on the top of Alec Murdoch's mind.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Another thing about the phone, Callie, and for right now
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: I'm talking about Paul Murdoch's phone. Where was Paul Murdoch's
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: phone discovered? Unfortunately I did see a picture of this
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: and Paul Murdoch's phone is on the center of his thigh,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: very carefully placed there, and as we know from Alec Murdoch,
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: he says he's the one who placed it there after
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: trying to turn Paul Murdoch's body over to see if
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: he could find anything or get find a pulse on
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: Paul so at a minimum, you would kind of expect
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: for Alec Burdock's fingerprints to be on Paul's phone since
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: he admittedly touched it. Let me ask you something, Kelly,
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: would you please say that again? Murdoch says he touched
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: Paul's body and then in the middle of saying your
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: child dead, you're worried about where are you're gonna put
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: his cell phone? Yes, Alec Murdoch admittedly says that he
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: tried to turn Paul Murdoch's body over to see if
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: he could get a pulse on him. In the process,
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Paul Murdock's phone popped out of his pocket and Alec,
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: in his own words, picked that phone up and put
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: it back on Paul's side. And that is the phone
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: that fingerprint analysts. There's no way you check for a
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: pulse with somebody who doesn't have half their head. That's ridiculous. Agree,
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: and Kelly, wasn't there blood on the inside of Paul
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Murdoch's pocket. There was blood on the inside of his pocket.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: There was a pool of blood underneath his body. So
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: how this phone is clean, I'm not quite sure. Cheryl McCallum,
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: I'm a forensic expert, weigh in. I can tell you
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: the phone is clean, just like Alec Murdoch's hands are
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: clean because they never touched the blood. He didn't check
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: for a pulse, he didn't cradle his child, he didn't
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: grab him and hug him, he didn't say a prayer
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: over him or nothing else. There's no I hear you
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: jumping in, Dale Carson, go ahead, Yeah, there's no way
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: that you would examine your son when they're part of
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: their skull is missing and they've been clearly shut with
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: a shotgun. Checking for the pulse as a ridiculous impulse.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: I've seen these things happen before. People who love a
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: child or a person who's injured, they do exactly what
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: Cheryl said. They grab him, they shake them to try
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: to bring them back to life, and that puts blood
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: all over the individual who is trying to hold the
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: deceased loved one. And so that process probably never occurred.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: And just because he's a lawyer doesn't mean he knows
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: how to perform the perfect crime. Joining me is former
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: US Marshal Service International Investigator Chief Inspector IRV brand Erv
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: What do you make of what you're hearing? Because I
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: believe that As soon as a jury comes back from lunch,
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: Paul Greer, special agent Paul Greer, is going to make
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: an analysis and comp hair what he finds it the
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: same cartridges tool markings to other cartridges. They're all the same,
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: and definitively, definitively tell the jury that both that that
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: night one of the murder weapons was a Murdog family gun.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: It's the nail and the coffin for the defense. They're
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: setting it up. You were talking about it earlier. It
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: takes time to lay the foundation. It's tedious set times,
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: but it's necessary. And then when they come back from launch,
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: this is where the hammer drops. They're going to put
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: it all together and the jury's going to see it,
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: you know, for what it is. You start piecing it
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: together and you see it a little bit at a time,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: a little bit at a time. Then the picture becomes
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: larger and larger, and this is what it's all leading
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: up to. Not over the wardrobe change from yesterday where
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: we see Alex and Murdog and one outfit in the afternoon,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: and then immediately after the murders he has on a
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: very pristine white T shirt. There's a wardrobe change in there. Somewhere,
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: and coincidentally, in between the wardrobe change, a double murder
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: went down. I'd be curious to find out if the
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: clothing on the left of the screen has ever been
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: found by guys. Another son, in addition to Buster Murdog
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: lost his mother, And of course I'm talking about Gloria
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Satterfield's son, the housekeeper that, by some accounts, was pushed
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: to her death at the Murdog home. By other accounts,
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: she somehow stumbled down the steps and died. Take a
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: listen to painful testimony on the stand in our cut eight.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: Did your family advised you that there was some media
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: reporting about a settlement in the case? Yes, all right?
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: And at that time had you heard anything from Alec
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: or Corey or Chat or anybody about a settlement in
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: the No? Did you make a phone called Ellen? Yes?
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: And what month was that? I believe the last time
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: I caught Hillenden in June and twenty one, around the
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: time of the murders. Yes, And what did you ask him?
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: I can't believe when I asked him, but it was
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: still making fun. Rest and be ready to settle, you
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: know by the end of the year. Did he tell
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: you that they had already gotten a settlement for five
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: hundred and five thousand dollars. No, did he tell you
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: that they had already gotten a settlement for three point
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: eight million dollars? Now, had he ever told you that
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: there was an umbrella policy for five million dollars? Did
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: he give him permission to steal your money? No? We
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: have come to find out that there was a settlement
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: under the umbrella policy for three point eight million dollars.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: Is that correct? Yes? And a large proportion of that
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: was averted by Ellik Murdoch. Is that right? Yes? Did
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: you ever get one cent from Ellik Murdoch when he
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: was still before all of this happened? Now? Did you
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: see those empty chairs behind the prosecutor? That's the jury
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: panel where they sit. They didn't hear that. So right
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: now we know more than the jury does. And I
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: also noticed, Kelly, did you notice that Michael Centerfield doesn't
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: look over at Alex Murdog. He is not looking at him.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: That's telling me a lot. But when I heard him
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: talking about the settlement after his mother, and she was
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: a young woman, I wasn't she in her fifties. I
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: believe she had a whole life in front of her
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: just falls falls out of the blue. After twenty years
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: of working, there falls down the steps and dies. And
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: when you hear Paul murdog on the phone, he sounds
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: ice called there you go. There is Michael with his mother,
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: Miss Gloria, and he just looks so wounded on the
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: stand Kelly to louse his mother and then find out
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: the lawyer that they trusted screwed them over butt Good
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: to the tune of at least four point three to
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: five million and a possible nine point three five million,
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: took it all himself and spent it. I mean, talk
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: of her about heartbreaking Nancy. This man's mother was also
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: referred to as Paul Murdoch and Buster Murdoch's second mother,
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: Gloria Saderfield was with them as the nanny and as
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: the housekeeper, and her own son after she dies, does
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: not know that his family has gotten any money until
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: reading it in the news. Not one cent. They're millionaires, Callie.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: And we learned today that Alec well we've already known this,
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: but what we heard in court today was that Alec
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: Murdoch used that Sadderfield settlement money to pay off his
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: loans at Palmeadow's statement. So it just turns my stomach.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: How people get taken advantage of, how the rich and
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: the powerful te advantage of those less cunning than they are,
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: and they never have a voice. They didn't even realize
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: they were millionaires. But Murdog had taken it all and
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: was using it for his own expenses, his own bad
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: loans he couldn't pay back. And from what I understand,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: there was an extremely strong bond between Gloria Saderfield and
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: this son, Michael Saderfield. And when I listen, correct me
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, everybody, because you've listened to it too.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: The nine one one call, when Maggie and Paul were
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: calling nine one one about Gloria falling to her death.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: I remember, Paul, I'm pretty sure I remember he said,
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: it's a lady that works for us. This is the
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: woman that helped raise him for Pete's sake, the woman
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: that works for us. Do you remember that, Cheryl McCollum. Vaguely,
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: But again it goes to where he thinks this person's
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: station is his. You know they obviously felt that way.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: He did anyway, So when you look at who you're
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: going to steal from, and who you're just not going
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: to care about, you know, their children. It goes awright
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: with you know, this story that we've heard from the beginning.
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: He didn't care about anybody but himself. Nancy, let me imagine,
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: go ahead, imagined something about the crime scene. The fact
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: that that shotgun that is purportedly going to be used
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: to show connection to the shotgun shows that killed Paul.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: You know, the fact that that shotgun was not discovered
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: there at the actual crime scene indicates that somebody took
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: it back and put it away where it ordinarily would
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: be found later. And the only person to have access
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: to that house after all of this was one person,
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: Alex Mernog. You know, neither weapon has been found, has
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: been recovered, Those weapons are long gone or brand. I
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: was about to ask you, you've not only worked with
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: US Marshal Service and the DOJ, but you have sat
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: by while many a jury is struck. And I guarantee
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: you that jury is not packed full of millionaires like
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: Alex Murdog. They are people like our families, workers, workers
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: that typically work for somebody else, And they haven't heard
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: one word about all the millions that Murdog gorged himself
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: on other people's money, and it all came to a head,
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: as you hear Sadderfield state. I called him and the
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: lawyer says, wasn't this right before the murders And he
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: says yes, And I was asking him about that settlement.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: I read about it in the paper. It was all
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: coming to a head, earth Mancy. The answer to all
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: questions is money. We know this. That's that's where the
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: trail leads. It's really going to depend on what the
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: court allows in on this testimony of bad acts by
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: the defendant. When the defense opens the door and the
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: state walks through and can start bringing this type of
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: evidence in, and it shows just the amount of greed.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: And it's always the answer, every single time. It's always
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: about money. And they'll say it's about money in this
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: kiss Kelly Skiing, is it true that the Murdoch family
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: was absent when the jury was absent even though Murdoch
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: was in there? That's right, Nancy. I found that very strange.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: Yesterday and today only Alec Murdoch's sister was there when
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: the jury wasn't present, and then right before the jury
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: is brought in each day, his brothers, his son and
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: his son's girlfriend file right back into the court. Now, Kelly,
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: you were with me when we left the courthouse and
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: we were looking for a place to eat dinner. It
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: was getting late, and we came upon people that told
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: us the Murdoch family is leaving. I guessed during lunch,
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: or at least after court and staying at some mansion
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: that's costing several thousand dollars a day, and I guess
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: eating lunch there away from prying eyes where they can
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: pow wow about what's going down. So clearly they knew
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: there was nobody to impress. The jury wasn't going to
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: be there, and they didn't show up just for Alex Murdoch,
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: who was there but only came in moments before the
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: jury came in. And I understanding this correctly, that's right.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: And I've also noticed that Alec Murdock's demeanor is very
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: different when the jury is there compared to when they
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: are not there. So, when the jury is not in
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: the room and the prosecution is going through all of
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: these alleged financial crimes, Alec Murdock is pointing at the
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: display screen, conferring with his lawyers, passing notes back and forth.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: When the jury is there, his head is down and
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: he rocks back and forth, and he's very focused. But
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: when they are not there, I see a different Alec Murdoch.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: He ever shed one tier when the jury's not there, Kelly,
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: not that I can see, Nancy, not that I can see. However,
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: when Chris Wilson was on the stand yesterday, yes when
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: Chris Wilson was on the stand yesterday, Alec Murdock was
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: very upset. Did he cry? Yes, he had? He had
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: was wiping his eyes with tissues, and that was with
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: no jury present. Correct. But I think what we have
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: to think about here is this is a personal relationship
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: that Alec Murdock has had since the eighties unraveling in
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: front of his eyes. He hadn't seen Chris Wilson since
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: that conversation at his parents' house. He texted Chris Wilson,
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: he wrote a letter to Chris Wilson. So I'm not
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: sure exactly what those tears were four, but I definitely
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: did see them yesterday when the jury wasn't there. However,
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: you haven't seen them through the other financial crimes that
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: are being laid out. M He knows Chris Wilson has
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: known him for years and years and years, and Chris
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Wilson himself was tearing up on the stand over the
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: betrayal by one of his best friends, Alex Murdog. I
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: could see that. Well, okay, here's two words of wisdom
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: to the defense. Number one, teach Harpoolian, the defense lawyer,
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: not to yawn in front of the jury, and teach
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: him how to use an iPhone. And number two, be
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: prepared to, huh, give Alex Murdog the elbow when you
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: need him to turn on the waterworks in front of
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: the jury. And maybe the jury's not watching everything, but
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: guess what we are. We're getting ready to go back
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: in the courtroom. Thank you for being with us during
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: the lunch break. Let's head straight back in and see
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: who the next witness will be. Thank you for being
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: with us, Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friendsh