Latest / Magic Divorce Club Podcast / Ep 16: Secrets, Divorce & Turning Pain Into Art - Lessons From Lily Allen

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Ep 16: Secrets, Divorce & Turning Pain Into Art - Lessons From Lily Allen · Magic Divorce Club Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the magic divorce club podcast.
• 0:05
  This is your space to successfully navigate your divorce with
• 0:10
  confidence and create
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: a roadmap to the life of your dreams.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Hannah Harvey.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the author of How to Divorce Sober,
• 0:19
  and I have helped thousands of women to process the trauma of
• 0:22
  divorce and step into
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: an exciting future.
• 0:27
  Please like and subscribe because this really helps my little
• 0:31
  podcast to grow.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: And if you would like more from me,
• 0:34
  you can subscribe at magicdivorceclub.substack.com for a host
• 0:41
  of other support
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: tools.
• 0:44
  Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Magic Divorce
• 0:49
  Club podcast.
• 0:51
  It's me Hannah and I'm gonna be honest this is gonna be a
• 0:56
  little bit of processing
• 0:59
  out loud because last night I listened to Lily Allen's new
• 1:04
  album West End Girl for
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: the first time and I listened to it in full
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: like it's the 90s.
• 1:12
  I don't think I have done that since I had a record player and
• 1:16
  I sold my record
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: player quite a while ago because it was given to me by my ex.
• 1:22
  So in true cleansing style I got rid of it and yeah I don't
• 1:26
  think with the age of
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Spotify I've ever listened to a full album in its entirety and
• 1:34
  oh I wasn't going to listen to the album because I'd read a
• 1:38
  little bit about it I'd
• 1:39
  had my brother email me I'd had my one of my best mates message
• 1:43
  and say talk about
• 1:44
  it and um my boyfriend Dan had done a little bit of digging
• 1:48
  around the story and I
• 1:49
  was like I'm gonna find that really triggering um and it was it
• 1:57
  definitely is a
• 1:58
  triggering lesson so if you're going through stuff right now in
• 2:01
  your divorce it's
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: really fresh and
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: I would maybe give it some space before you dive in.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: So with that in mind,
• 2:10
  that is your trigger warning that we'll be talking about
• 2:12
  infidelity and things like
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: that in this episode and addictions.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll tell you where I'm at with it.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: As someone who wrote a book with some details of what happened, I...
• 2:34
  i'm quite in awe of what she's done like i was so scared last
• 2:43
  august when i was you
• 2:45
  know doing the finishing touches of the book and really delving
• 2:49
  into um what my ex
• 2:52
  was gonna make of it because i do talk about uh drug taking
• 2:57
  alcohol addictions not
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: just his mine as well and um
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I didn't want to get sued, basically.
• 3:06
  So it was also quite a triggering experience because you're
• 3:13
  going back into the
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: whole thing and trying to make sense of it all.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it's cathartic.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: So in writing the book,
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was able to kind of process what had happened and really look at like,
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: what was my stuff?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: What was his stuff?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 3:31
  pull out the really beautiful threads that meant that I could
• 3:34
  heal properly and
• 3:35
  move on and learn the lessons that I needed to learn because
• 3:38
  there have been times
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: when I have been a massive dickhead and,
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: I needed to learn certain things so that I could stop doing it.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was like proper sabotage.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that is...
• 3:55
  that's kind of the story of my book which is called How to
• 3:58
  Divorce Sober and you
• 3:59
  know I do go into this stuff and I did find it really scary so
• 4:03
  to think that she's
• 4:04
  like properly told the whole story is um yeah quite something
• 4:11
  because I'm like how
• 4:12
  does it work legally being able to put all that stuff out there
• 4:18
  so I'm trying not
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: to rumble too much in this um
• 4:27
  I guess one of the things that I highly recommend people do
• 4:32
  when they're going
• 4:33
  through divorce is to not overly fixate on the story whilst
• 4:41
  you're in it and don't
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: air your laundry on Facebook and stuff like that.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because,
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: and the reason for this,
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: and this comes straight from Brené Brown,
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: is until we've processed this stuff,
• 4:57
  uh it's best not to talk about it so just let time be a bit of
• 5:01
  a healer um but
• 5:05
  there was also so much healing to be done from like making art
• 5:12
  basically so what
• 5:13
  lily has done here is create some like pretty banging tunes out
• 5:19
  of like utter
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: heartbreak um
• 5:26
  and you know she's had a bit of a checkered past too so it's
• 5:29
  easy to be like well
• 5:31
  she's cheated in the past and blah blah blah but the long and
• 5:35
  short of it is she's
• 5:36
  a woman who's been in love and had her heart broken and you
• 5:41
  know we're all allowed
• 5:42
  a fresh start so um my point is there's one thing to be you
• 5:50
  know really slaying
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: somebody publicly when you're
• 5:55
  very much still in it and processing it because that isn't good
• 5:58
  for you like you're
• 6:00
  re you're literally picking off the scabs and the wounds um and
• 6:05
  then there's
• 6:05
  another thing to take all of this raw human emotion and turn it
• 6:12
  into art or
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: something that's going to help you process what you're going through um
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: And they do say heartbreak really makes an artist.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: It cracks us open creatively.
• 6:32
  And I guess it forces a kind of honesty that we've not
• 6:35
  necessarily allowed
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: ourselves to really explore before because we've never really needed to.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, this album literally feels like you're reading her diary.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's like Technicolor...
• 6:51
  movie of exactly what happened um yeah so I you know I guess if
• 7:02
  you're taking
• 7:03
  anything from this it's that it is possible to channel what
• 7:08
  you're feeling into
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  something creative whether you're an artist a poet you want to
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  write stuff down you
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  want to journal things out you want to make some music you can
• 7:18
  really go there and
• 7:20
  be you know properly honest you don't necessarily ever have to
• 7:24
  show it to anyone um
• 7:30
  but yeah this album i guess i'm just like she has said herself
• 7:35
  that it isn't
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: intended to be a cruel album like i don't think
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: she's necessarily throwing him under the bus.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: it's,
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: it's that balance between,
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: I talked to someone,
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: um,
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  SPEAKER_00: a lady called Penny,
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: on my old podcast,
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: which I'll share a link to the happily ever after podcast.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a little bit what she called, um, what did she call it?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Something honesty, like,
• 8:10
  complete raw honesty about what you've been through because
• 8:16
  there are so many women
• 8:21
  in the magic divorce club you know there's over a thousand
• 8:24
  women in this club so i
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: can guarantee you
• 8:29
  that there will be women in this club who have had their
• 8:33
  boundaries crossed,
• 8:34
  who have had to keep secrets because they wanted to keep their
• 8:38
  family together and
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: to protect their marriage,
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: and who have lost themselves in the process of keeping these secrets.
• 8:49
  And what she is describing in this album is triggering for a
• 8:55
  lot of people because it's true.
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  SPEAKER_00: We've lived through this kind of thing.
• 9:03
  and that's quite confronting I guess as a society to have
• 9:06
  somebody go this is the
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  kind of thing that women live through all the time all the time
• 9:12
  they've had
• 9:12
  children with somebody then things start to change and you know
• 9:17
  it's not just women
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  I know some men go through this too I think if we're honest it
• 9:23
  happens more to
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: women than men and
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  you get to a point where you're so thick in all of it and the
• 9:33
  shame and the secrecy
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  and the lies and the trying to keep everything together that
• 9:39
  you forget that this
• 9:42
  isn't normal and it's not pleasant and you know what she's
• 9:48
  actually done is
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  SPEAKER_00: highlighting to a lot of people who may be living this right now that
• 9:55
  you don't have to you don't have to you can get out of it and
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  um you know there's
• 10:00
  going to be some quite a lot of healing i think for some people
• 10:04
  to to be able to
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  SPEAKER_00: listen and go oh yeah
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  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
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  SPEAKER_00: maybe there were some agreements around,
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
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  you can have sex with other people as long as I don't find out
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  or as long as you've
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  SPEAKER_00: paid for them and it's a stranger.
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  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, transpires, it's not that at all.
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  But the chances are you maybe didn't make that arrangement in
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  the first place
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  SPEAKER_00: because you wanted to.
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  You did it because you were stuck between a rock and a hard
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  place and you were
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  SPEAKER_00: hoping that that would keep your partner happy.
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  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
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  SPEAKER_00: But my experience of keeping secrets,
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: trying to protect your marriage,
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: carrying shame around,
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  SPEAKER_00: it's incredibly damaging.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like it has to live somewhere and it stores itself in your body.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: And having that in your body,
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: for me,
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: then started to cause panic attacks,
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  SPEAKER_00: massive anxiety,
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: and then ultimately dipping into depression.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I would do a lot of numbing.
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  Like she has this incredible song in the album about not
• 11:11
  wanting to relapse and...
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  Like desperately needing a way to numb because she didn't want
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  to feel all the
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  SPEAKER_00: stuff that she's feeling.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: Like I relate to...
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  you know having so like having all of these negative emotions
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  and not really
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  knowing how what to do with them and having no way to um turn
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  to the thing that I
• 11:36
  used to turn to which would have been alcohol and instead I
• 11:39
  have to feel it I mean
• 11:41
  I did I can feel it in my shoulders as I'm talking about this I
• 11:44
  did uh numb with
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  SPEAKER_00: things like food or um you know sugar that kind of thing but
• 11:53
  not quite the same as being able to knock yourself out with
• 11:56
  booze um so yeah a lot
• 12:02
  of what some of you will be working through now is working
• 12:07
  through letting go of
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  SPEAKER_00: that need to protect and to keep secrets um
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  SPEAKER_00: And I guess acknowledging what it costs you to keep those secrets.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it's tricky.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's really tricky stuff.
• 12:27
  And this is why I'm so dedicated to this kind of somatic work
• 12:34
  that we do in the
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Magic Divorce Club is all around helping your body feel safe again.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because we get so used to feeling safe when you're up against it,
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: when you're putting out fires,
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: when you're holding secrets.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: That becomes the safe place for your body and your brain.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're not and when you're starting to feel calm,
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: that's when sabotage can really come in because you're like,
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
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  SPEAKER_00: this calm feeling does not feel safe anymore for me.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I need to learn.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: I need to relearn.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe even learn for the first time if this is,
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: your whole life has been quite chaotic.
• 13:11
  It's like learning for the first time how to release the chaos
• 13:17
  and feel safe being
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: calm and being...
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: in a steady new relationship,
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: if that's what you're going to try and call in next,
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: which I highly recommend.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: But that in itself is tricky because you're used to chaos.
• 13:33
  So it takes this whole process to get used to feeling safe with
• 13:39
  somebody who's not
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: kicking off with you or making you keep secrets for them.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um...
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:50
  some people are obviously criticising her for airing her dirty
• 13:55
  laundry or saying
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: too much.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess for you and me,
• 14:03
  we need to consider how much we share publicly and if it's
• 14:08
  actually healing for us.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you get to choose that.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: I personally...
• 14:17
  I mean obviously I've written a book but like as a rule I try I
• 14:22
  did my best to
• 14:23
  share the story that was my bit and not throw my kid's dad
• 14:29
  under the bus because I
• 14:31
  still want to have a working relationship with him and he was
• 14:34
  struggling as well
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: like we both had our issues and you know when there's things like um
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: I want to say addictions,
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: but I say this from the point of view of being like,
• 14:47
  if you repeatedly do something that causes a negative impact on
• 14:50
  yourself and others
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: around you,
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: that's what I mean by addiction.
• 14:54
  So when there are things in your relationship that repeatedly
• 15:00
  happen despite
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: promises being made and your boundaries are getting crossed,
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: that's what I'm talking about.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: However much you want to talk about that is up to you,
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: but I would say do your best to process it privately first.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do a Brené Brown on the situation, and then when you're ready...
• 15:27
  And feeling strong enough that if you do get criticised,
• 15:32
  you're going to be okay.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's when you can show your arts to the world.
• 15:37
  But I would say always protect the little version of you before
• 15:42
  you go and air it,
• 15:46
  I guess.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: And just make sure that you feel like you are...
• 15:53
  really steady and strong in yourself um because when you're in
• 15:58
  fight or flight that
• 15:58
  could really tip you into proper overwhelm and panic attacks
• 16:03
  all that kind of stuff
• 16:05
  so if you are feeling like you're just coming out of some
• 16:10
  proper bullshit um
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: behavior and you want to work out how to channel this um i'm like oh
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: make art like draw some pictures make some poetry like really create safe
• 16:31
  containers where you can express yourself because you deserve
• 16:37
  to share your story
• 16:39
  and you own your story and you are i give you full permission
• 16:45
  to call out shit
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: behavior um
• 16:50
  And just do what you can to really help yourself process it in
• 16:54
  the way that feels best for you.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: And most sort of, most healing.
• 17:02
  So it might be you're going to your therapist and you're
• 17:04
  telling them everything.
• 17:06
  It might be that you've gone to an art class and you're like
• 17:10
  black paint everywhere.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, but just...
• 17:14
  I think the more we can shine a light on the things that we're
• 17:20
  feeling and the
• 17:20
  stuff that we've been through and the things that we're like
• 17:23
  fucking furious about,
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: the more we're able to heal.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: if we try and shove them under a carpet or let them just fester,
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: that's not going to be good either.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it'll come out in other ways.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: When you see your ex, you'll be like,
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
• 17:44
  doing things that aren't necessarily cohesive to a professional
• 17:49
  co-parenting
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: relationship with them.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: For me,
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: I did a lot of just sitting and staring out the window,
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be honest,
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: and crying and letting myself feel all of the pain.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then as I say, I wrote it all up.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: I wrote my story out and that was painful.
• 18:11
  but also so healing because I make sense of my thoughts when I
• 18:16
  write them out.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like,
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: you probably know this with this podcast,
• 18:21
  that sometimes I can kind of go round and round in circles
• 18:26
  unless I've seen it
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: properly written out.
• 18:29
  And I do feel like when I speak sometimes that helps me process
• 18:32
  what I'm feeling as well.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um...
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't worry about oversharing too much.
• 18:40
  When you've got to the point where you're feeling ready to
• 18:42
  share this stuff and you
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: want to write a book or whatever it is you want to do,
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: say it how it is.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: You're allowed to have your story.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: You're allowed to tell your story.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to keep hiding behind other people's bad behaviour.
• 19:04
  And also,
• 19:05
  you don't have to tell every detail when you do finally share
• 19:09
  it.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: My friend Caro Giles,
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: who has written some amazing books,
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: and I'll share them in the,
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: what's it called?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: The notes, the show notes.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: She talks about
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: the ghosts on the page.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: So if you are interested in memoir,
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: her first book is all about her divorce and going through it over,
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: it was kind of lockdown time.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, that brought its own stresses.
• 19:42
  She's got four children with,
• 19:45
  you know,
• 19:45
  specific needs that require a lot of her attention.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: And she just does the most beautiful job of
• 19:54
  laying the heartbreak out there without just getting nasty I
• 20:01
  guess and yeah she
• 20:03
  talks about this writing the ghost on the page so you can leave
• 20:07
  out details and we
• 20:08
  know we know what's actually going on and between the lines um
• 20:13
  so yeah 12 moons
• 20:15
  highly recommend that and her latest book called unschooled is
• 20:18
  also out as well
• 20:21
  So I guess what I'm trying to say is don't ever feel ashamed to
• 20:27
  own your story and to share it.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Be careful when you decide to share it.
• 20:36
  But you'll know when the time is right and part of it will be
• 20:38
  incredibly cathartic.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, you...
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 20:45
  Lily could be helping so many people when you do go on to share
• 20:50
  what you did,
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: how you recovered.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it doesn't have to be some big revenge piece.
• 20:56
  It can be,
• 20:57
  this is my baptism of fire and how I finally got to learn who I
• 21:04
  am and...
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: And know that there's actually so much more beyond divorce.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like the end.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: And when for so many of us, it's actually just the beginning.
• 21:17
  Like this is the first time we properly get to know ourselves
• 21:20
  and who we are.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really beautiful.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: So please tell me, are you making art already?
• 21:27
  Do you have stuff that you are livid about still that you would
• 21:36
  love to do a Lily Allen on?
• 21:39
  um a friend of mine suggested that we have a piece where people
• 21:42
  anonymously send in
• 21:44
  things that have happened to them and i post it all up for
• 21:47
  everybody uh what do you
• 21:50
  think should we do that or is that just crazy i don't know
• 21:52
  because god knows what
• 21:55
  has been going on um but you know it's our stories we can be
• 22:00
  radically honest we
• 22:01
  can share what we want these things have happened to us we've
• 22:04
  put up with them and
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: now we're out the other side
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: So my loves,
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: whatever it is that you're going through right now,
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: whatever it is that you're healing from,
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: please know that you can always reach out to me.
• 22:21
  You can come along to Magic Mondays on a Monday where whatever
• 22:26
  is going on,
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: we come back to center.
• 22:30
  I bring you inside the Magic Divorce Clubhouse,
• 22:32
  which is this amazing protective building.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Only we're allowed in there.
• 22:38
  and everybody else's shit gets fizzled away before you even
• 22:42
  come in and inside
• 22:44
  there you are enough you are doing enough and i fill you up
• 22:48
  with that energy of
• 22:49
  compassion so that you can then go on and really think about
• 22:53
  what you want to call
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: in now you get to choose what you do next
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I hope you're all right.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: I hope that wasn't too triggering.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to hear what you've thought of this whole thing.
• 23:05
  I know I'm a little bit behind everybody else,
• 23:08
  but you know,
• 23:09
  it was triggering.
• 23:10
  So I had to take a little while to kind of work up to actually
• 23:13
  listen to it.
• 23:16
  don't remember don't remember do remember your heartbreak is
• 23:20
  not the end of the
• 23:22
  story this is your hero's journey this is the middle section of
• 23:26
  the book and this
• 23:28
  beautiful end of the book is what we're going to do next okay
• 23:33
  my loves have a
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: wonderful week and i will speak to you again next week
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: And if you could subscribe and leave a review, that would be amazing.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: For all of your tips and tools,
• 23:49
  head over to magicdivorceclub.substack.com and you can find
• 23:58
  everything that you
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: need there.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: You've got this and I've got you.