Latest / DevQuestions with Tim Corey / 220. How To Evaluate Which College Degree Is Best For You

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220. How To Evaluate Which College Degree Is Best For You · DevQuestions with Tim Corey

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: What should you look for in a college degree in order to be a software developer?
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: How do you evaluate which college degree is best for you?
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you've identified that a degree is something that you want to pursue, identifying which degree to get and from where is really important to making the wisest decision.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Today, we're going to talk about how to get the most out of your college degree so you don't regret your decision later in life.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Dev Questions podcast with Tim Corey.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Software development is more than just writing code.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about the rest of it.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Specifically, let's talk about how to make a wise choice when considering a college degree.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: First, you need to be sure that a degree is the right choice for you.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Lots of software developers don't have degrees.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot that do kind of regret that decision.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: I have other episodes here that talk about that choice and what to do if you don't get a degree, though.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about what to do if you've decided that choice is right for you and you want that degree.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: So let's start with what a degree will give you.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's important to know what the expected outcome is.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you just say, I need a degree, why?
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you might figure out the reasons, but knowing the reasons up front will help you determine which thing, which degree, which college, which way of getting it will give you those things for the best bang for your buck.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: So what does a degree give you?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Number one, it gives you something to put on your resume.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're first starting off, let's say you are a 22-year-old who has just graduated from college.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: You may not have any work experience that is relevant to software development.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: But if you have a software development degree of some type on your resume, you've got something.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then some companies really focus on making sure that you have a degree of some type.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Some companies still have that kind of what I call a checkbox where you just check the box saying, I have a degree, and that's all they care about.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: They don't care about your GPA, they don't care about even necessarily what type of degree it is.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Some will say it has to be in technology or in the computer science area, but oftentimes even that is flexible.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: So having a degree does give you something to put on your resume and it can help with that checkbox requirement at some companies.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Number two, it gives you an overview of the theory of development.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: So if you are windy working as a software developer, knowing the industry a bit, knowing the theory behind software development, knowing the patterns and knowing the kind of the underlying architecture of computers and how this all works in order to take your code and turn it into applications can be helpful.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Number three, it can expose you to a number of software development languages, databases, and techniques.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you've tried out and you say, hey, I've learned Python, and I really kind of like Python.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I've learned Python a little bit before you go to college.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you probably won't just do Python, you'll probably do Java and you'll probably work with SQL and maybe even MongoDB or another NoSQL database.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: You'll probably work with other languages as well, maybe C sharp, maybe others as well.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: But you'll be exposed to a broader range of things where maybe you go, hey, I thought I liked Python, but really I kind of like this Java thing.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, maybe you do.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you figure out because you're exposed to more things than just what you have seen in your little experience so far.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then number four, you build potential connections with people.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: So your classmates, your professors, the people that you kind of rub shoulders with at that school can be connections that can help you out in the future.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: So as I see it, those are four reasons why, or four things a degree might give you as a benefit.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: So something on your resume, uh, a good overview of the theory of development, it exposes you to a number of languages, databases, techniques, and it can potentially give you some connections in the industry.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, based upon that list, let's talk about what to look for and degree so that we can kind of maximize that list and minimize other things.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about importance.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so we're gonna start with the most important thing, go to the least important thing.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Number one cost.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, the number one thing to think about with a college degree is cost.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: A$200,000 degree is not four times as valuable as a$50,000 degree.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where you have to start doing the math on this.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you could go to a state school, again, we're talking US right now because I know that overseas, you know, if you're in Europe and other places, maybe get free degrees, that might be different.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: But for the US, we have to look at it as an expense.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have to look at, you know, where is the value here?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yes, a college degree can cost you two, three, four hundred thousand dollars over the course of four years.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Is that more valuable than thirty, fifty thousand dollars that you might get at a state school or a local school?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so it's not just is it more valuable?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because maybe it is, but maybe it's five percent more valuable, not four hundred percent more valuable.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you have to think through the differences there because that's a lot of money.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, you can get loans for this, you can get sometimes even scholarships or other things, and you can kind of balance those out.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: But at the end of the day, if you have to pay back$200,000 in loans versus$50,000 in loans, yeah, you're gonna know a difference for a very long time.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be four times as long or more to pay back that degree.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's gonna be even longer that you're regretting making that choice potentially.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, cost is absolutely the first thing you should think about.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Number two is the type of degree.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: So typically, computer science or software engineering is probably the degree you want if you want to be a software developer.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it does depend on the college because different colleges have different nomenclature for identifying what the degree is or or how it works.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: But those are probably the ones that most focus in on software development and turning out software developers.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Although you might want to go the opposite direction and round yourself out with something like an IT degree, which will have software development in it usually, but also has things like networking and server management and other things that can give you a broader perspective on how software works inside the ecosystem.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: That might be beneficial as well.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to figure out what type is best for you.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of the number two thing.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because maybe you have a decent option at one college and a better option at another where the cost is the same.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, then that might help determine which college to go for.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Number three, this is one that people often overlook, and it's one that frustrates me, and that is the faculty.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: So when you look at a college, you look at a degree, don't just look at what the class titles are, what the class covers, because that's not really all there is to the education.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's who's teaching me?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: How many of the faculty have actually worked in the industry?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because if the answer is none, well, then are they really teaching you, or are they just regurgitating what they saw in the book?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that might not be accurate or relevant to today's marketplace.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: I have seen this in a number of colleges.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: And you might say, oh no, no, faculty always know.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: They do not.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I taught at one college where the faculty had to learn the semester before from the same book they then taught out of.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so they had a really hard time teaching that topic because they didn't know how to go anywhere outside of the box.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: If it wasn't on the pages of the book, they just didn't know it.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: When I originally went to college, so I went to college for one year before dropping out when I was 18.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now I went back later and got my IT degree, not a software engineering degree, IT degree, just to have that thing that can have a checkbox and a resume.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: But when I went for one year, I went as an electrical engineer.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: I thought that's what I wanted to do with my life.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: I thought that electrical engineering was kind of the thing that best fit my personality.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Turns out the thing I love the most about it was the software development.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I ended up being a becoming a software developer.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: But the college that I went to in the engineering department, every professor had at least 10 years of experience in the field.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that really shone through when it came time for them to teach us.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because it wasn't just what the book says, it's the experience that they had in the industry.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's the broader perspective, it's the ability to say, this is important and this is not as important.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's that teaching really made a difference.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why that program was always near the top, if not the top program in the whole region.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because it wasn't just that they were regurgitating information, it was they had real-world experience in it.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: That can make a big difference.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: So look at the faculty and say, hey, you know, when's the last time you built an app?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Or when's the last time you worked at a company building software?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's a pretty important question.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Number four, and again, this is order of priority, is the courses themselves.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: So look at the courses to see if they provide depth over breadth.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one of the things that colleges love to do, and it frustrates me a bit, is they love to change the language every class.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Where, okay, this class is Python, this class is PowerShell, this class is C sharp, this class is Java, this class is JavaScript, this is HTL and CSS.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: And now we're gonna do Angular, now we're gonna do like they keep bouncing around.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what do you get with that?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: You get a breadth of information, which can be valuable, but the reality is you get no depth.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I like to see at least some depth in the courses, meaning maybe they bounce around other languages for the most part, but you know, Java is a pretty cop uh pretty popular language in colleges.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so maybe they have a Java one, two, three, and four.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's some depth.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's where they're going a lot deeper than just hello world and basic variables into more depth in how the language works, in how to implement it in more complex scenarios and more real-world type scenarios.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that allows you to have a deeper understanding of how to be a developer than just hitting hello world every semester with a new class.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: So depth over just breadth.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then also hands-on versus tests.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Again, here's another pet peeve of mine is look at how they assess a software development specifically.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Now, there's all these, you know, all the regular classes as well, the literature and all the rest.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: We're not talking about those.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about in your degree.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: In those classes where let's just say it's uh you know, intro of C sharp.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, how are they assessing that a person has successfully passed the class?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Is it primarily through what they built and if what they built was successful or met the criteria?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it based upon testing with multiple choice, with fill in the blank?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because those are two different things.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: One is real-world, practical, and helps you become a better developer.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: The other is theoretical and it's about memorization, and it really doesn't help a lot.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: It has some benefit, it doesn't help a lot with becoming a software developer.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: So evaluating that can be important because maybe one college, one course focus, one course program focuses more on the theoretical, and one focuses more on the hands-on.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'd recommend the hands-on.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I'd recommend depth over breadth.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: So the difference will be: do I come out of this four years with some level of real-world skill, or do I come out with lots of theory that anybody can Google?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's a big difference.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: And again, you're paying lots of money, even if you go to a free school, or even if you have a full ride, whichever, you're spending four years of your time.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's a lot of time to spend to get something that's just theoretical.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd like to see you come out with more hands-on, more in-depth.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the one thing I didn't mention, those are the four things in order that I think you should think through when evaluating a degree at a specific university.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: So again, cost, the type of degree, the faculty, and the courses.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: But there's one thing I did not mention that maybe you're expecting me to mention, and I didn't mention intentionally.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: I did not mention college name because it mostly doesn't matter.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: So if you go to college A versus college B, it's not gonna matter to your employer.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna matter to most people, it's not gonna provide you the whole lot of value to say A versus B.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: So again, it comes back to number one on our list of evaluation, money.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: So if college A maybe has a little better name, but it's$200,000 versus college B, which no one knows about, but it costs$50,000, well, that name is not worth that.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so college name most doesn't matter.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now there are some names that yes, they could matter.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: For example, if you want to be a software developer and you decide to go to Stanford and they select you, okay, that name probably will matter for a couple reasons.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: One, people know that name and know it turns out software developers.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: But two, it's where a lot of the larger companies, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, and so on, have recruiting.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's where they take interns from.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of what they focus on is they like people from that school.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, that could be beneficial.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you get into Stanford, cool.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: That could override some of the costs or some of the other things because they do have great faculty, they do have great courses, um, and so you've already started to check off some other things.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: They have great types of um degrees as well.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: The cost, that's gonna be a problem unless you can get you know good grants.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: So college name for the most part, it's not gonna matter.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Again, unless it's Stanford, maybe MIT, there's a couple others, but even so, I look through the names of you know what people consider like big name, and it's not gonna matter for most jobs.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, one or two employers may care, but for the most part, employers don't even look at it.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: They don't even look at which college you went to, or even if they look at that, they don't really care.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: So if you I don't I do not recommend doing this, but if you were to put on your resume, you know, um, Bob's discount university and a four-year degree in computer science, you'd probably get picked up by a lot of people who are evaluating the resume because they go, okay, you check the box, you get out of you get out of four-year degree.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, like again, I don't recommend lying, do not lie.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but people really don't care about your university in the most part.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: So here's some tips for being successful.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Number one, learn a bit of software development early before you go to college.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and the reason why is you want to make sure that you like it and that you want to go deeper before you invest in a degree.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: People often look to the biggest thing to do as the first thing to do.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I want to build an app, I want to build this massive application.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Have you built a tiny one yet?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: No, I want to build a massive application.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Stop.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Build something tiny first, work your way up.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so when it comes to learning how to be a software developer, the biggest thing you can do is get a degree.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna spend four years and$250,000 in order to get a degree.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Do you like it?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I've never tried it.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Or I've only done like hello world.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe do a little bit more than that.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Invest a little more time.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know what?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you spend some time, spend three months, six months building applications over and over and over again, you might learn that it's just not for you.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Not everyone has a temperament to build software.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: So learning that early can save you hundreds of thousands of dollars.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Number two of the tips is if you are in high school, start early.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: So if you can get college credits to reduce your workload while you're in high school.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is a becoming more and more popular in the United States where you can take dual classes that you know are with your local community college or something else.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Do that.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Get ahead because a lot of college is going to be general education.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Your languages, your um, you know, literature, math, all the standard things that almost every college provides.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Get those out of the way as soon as possible and as cheaply as possible.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Number three is consider cheap credits that transfer.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the options that I've seen in a number of areas is you can get a two-year degree through a community college, which community colleges are very cheap usually, and then transfer that degree and build upon it for year three and four at a state school.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's a whole lot cheaper.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: And at the same time, you get that same I have a four-year degree still.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: You still have a check mark for the resume, you still have something to put in the resume, potentially even two things now with your associate's degree and your bachelor's degree.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: So you've done that.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: It looks like you have more in your resume at the same time you did it for cheaper.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's another thing to look for.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, number four is get an internship or relevant job as soon as possible.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: The more experience you have early on, the better.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: So if you walk out of college having never had any experience, you're gonna have a hard time getting a job.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: But if you have some experience, it can help you get that first job.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: So try and get internships, work with your professors, work with your university, see if they have any connections in the industry to get you a first job.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Number five, I see this missed a lot or done poorly, and that is build a portfolio.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: If your school offers the ability to build a portfolio or that's one of the classes, that's great.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: But just be sure to make it more than just what looks like a class project.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: So what I mean by that is often I see portfolios where people say, hey, here's a project I did in school because I'm, you know, I'm just out of school, which for me is fine.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, if you're starting out, yeah, you might be just out of school.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Showing your portfolio what you did in school, even, that's great.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: But then they put group projects in there.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Group projects are horrible for a portfolio.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason why is because once I figure out it's a group project, I have no clue how much you did.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so you may have been the person that made it look pretty when I'm looking for a software developer.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: You may be the person that was a project manager, I'm looking for a software developer.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, or you may have written all the code, but I can't tell.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: So try to put individual projects, try to put projects in there that just you did, and then try to make them not look like just an assignment.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: What that means is maybe go beyond just what the instructions tell you to do.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you know what you turned into your professor, you keep working on and make it better.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Fill it out.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Don't just have it be the slap dash, I got done last minute for class and I forgot about it, kind of thing.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, go beyond that.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, number six is get introductions.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to your professors and try to get job introductions.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Again, start networking with people.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Start building relationships where you say, hey, you know, can you help me get a job?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: Can you help introduce me to people that I might be able to work with?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that can jumpstart your career a whole lot faster than just trying to go out there and put your resume out.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Number seven, get good grades.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: Now, grades don't really matter to employers.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, why would you ever get good grades if they don't matter to your employers?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, because they leave an impression on your professors and your classmates.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Again, you're talking about networking, about building a pool of people that know you and hopefully will recommend you for a potential position.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, if we look back at what were the reasons why you get a degree, number four was possible connections, connections with other people.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, how do you build those connections?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: One way is just talk to your professors, talk to other people, and just become known.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: But another one is if you're known as the slacker who barely gets any work done, why would your classmates, when they are working in a company and they need another developer, recommend you?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're a slacker who barely gets their work done.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: If your professor is talking to their industry contact and their industry contact says, hey, I'm looking for a developer.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know anybody?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Why would they recommend a Slacker who gets Cs and D's?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Versus if you are putting in the effort, if you are putting in, turning in good assignments, if you are working hard at building out real applications, if you're the one in the group project that is putting in the work, you stand out.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: You make a difference, you leave something in their memory that says, hey, that person was a good developer.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: That can be really important when it comes to down the road when they are looking to hire somebody or their employer is, or again, your professors are being asked.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: I have worked for companies where I would go and talk to professors and say, hey, I'm looking for someone to do this.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: And they would usually give me the top two or three performers in the class.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if you're not a top two or three performer, your name's not getting mentioned.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: If your name's not getting mentioned, I don't know about you.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: If I don't know about you, you're not getting that job.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, grades are important.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, making the effort is.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: If you just slack off, why are you even there?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: If you're just trying to skate through, then go to a cheap college and do that.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Just get the checkbox degree.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because at the end of the day, you're paying for this, whether it's paying with your money or your money and your time.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, well, you're everybody's paying for the time, but some of you're paying with time and money as well.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: So even if it's just your time, four years is a lot of time.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Put the effort in to make sure that you're taking the biggest advantage you can of that time so you set yourself up for success.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you only ever think about your future in terms of next month, you're not going to do great.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: You need to be thinking about long-term, thinking about how do I do my work now in terms of next year, two years, three years down the road when I'm looking for a job or looking for the next job.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: So focus on that to take full advantage because college is a very expensive undertaking.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter if it's free, it's still very expensive as far as your time.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: So making sure you get the most out of it is really important.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: And as always, I am Tim Corey.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining us for this episode of Dev Questions.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: When you're ready to learn to think and code like a professional developer, head over to IamtimCorey.com and enroll in a course.