Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Principles of Overlanding: Payload, GVWR, and Building a Safer, Lighter Rig

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Principles of Overlanding: Payload, GVWR, and Building a Safer, Lighter Rig · The Overland Journal Podcast

0:04
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your
0:07
Speaker 1: host Scott Brady, and I'm here with my co hosts
0:10
Speaker 1: Matt Scott. What are we going to do a little
0:12
Speaker 1: different today, Matt, So, today we are going to be
0:15
Speaker 1: starting an all new series on the Overland Journal podcast
0:18
Speaker 1: called The Principles of Overlanding. And what this series is
0:22
Speaker 1: really meant to do is it's meant to just explain
0:24
Speaker 1: some kind of more basic concepts and a little bit
0:27
Speaker 1: more detail so you can get out kind of have
0:31
Speaker 1: some benefit of my experience, Scott's experience, and everybody that
0:35
Speaker 1: we've collaborated on for this series and make it all
0:39
Speaker 1: available to you.
0:40
Speaker 2: Yeah.
0:40
Speaker 1: And the thing about it that I think is important
0:42
Speaker 1: to reiterate is I've only touched the surface of what
0:46
Speaker 1: there is to know about overlanding, and I have a
0:50
Speaker 1: lifetime still of learning to do around this subject. But
0:55
Speaker 1: what this gives Matt and I the opportunity to do
0:57
Speaker 1: is do a deep dive a lot of additional re
1:00
Speaker 1: search and supportive research around these topics. So it's going
1:03
Speaker 1: to be things like what we're going to talk about today, payload,
1:07
Speaker 1: things that we're going to talk about like border crossings,
1:10
Speaker 1: visas and other documentation, shipping your vehicle around the world,
1:14
Speaker 1: the basics of suspension, the basics of an interior build out,
1:19
Speaker 1: and camping components. Why you select a van over maybe
1:23
Speaker 1: a wagon for example. So these are going to be
1:25
Speaker 1: very digestible subjects. They're going to be shorter in form
1:28
Speaker 1: but they're really going to dig into the details. They're
1:31
Speaker 1: going to dig into the subject matter of it. And
1:33
Speaker 1: partly this series was inspired by a book that I
1:38
Speaker 1: read a few years ago called Principles by Ray Dalio.
1:41
Speaker 1: This guy is extremely successful. He has one of the
1:45
Speaker 1: world's largest and most successful hedge funds, and he talks
1:49
Speaker 1: a lot about developing an organization and developing a mindset
1:53
Speaker 1: around principles. And the thing that he said that was
1:56
Speaker 1: the most salient to me and that I appreciated the
1:58
Speaker 1: most was he said, I I don't want to just
2:01
Speaker 1: think that I know that I'm right or think that
2:03
Speaker 1: I'm right. I want to know that I'm right. And
2:06
Speaker 1: and when when I say that that isn't just even
2:09
Speaker 1: partially suggest that everything that Matt and I are going
2:11
Speaker 1: to talk about today makes us right. But what it
2:14
Speaker 1: what it does do is it is it makes us
2:17
Speaker 1: think about what are the supporting details, what are the
2:19
Speaker 1: elements that surround it that help us know a little
2:22
Speaker 1: more that we're right in what we're saying.
2:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I don't think there's a better place to
2:25
Speaker 3: start on this than payload. I think if if there is,
2:28
Speaker 3: if there's one area that overlanders are grossly negligent, it
2:33
Speaker 3: is payload. You know, fortunately, some some people are choosing
2:36
Speaker 3: really durable vehicles that are maybe a little bit underrated
2:40
Speaker 3: from the factory. But what we want to teach you
2:43
Speaker 3: on this is why it's better to weigh less, Why
2:48
Speaker 3: you should consider that, why you need to consider not
2:51
Speaker 3: bringing the things with you that you don't need. You
2:54
Speaker 3: talk about that a lot needs versus wants, needs versus wants.
2:57
Speaker 3: Is that is that is my my biggest things. It's easy,
3:00
Speaker 3: it's easy to want everything, and it's kind of easy
3:02
Speaker 3: to say you need everything, but what do you actually need?
3:05
Speaker 3: I think overlanding is really for those that are looking
3:09
Speaker 3: to go on really long term trips. It's about just
3:12
Speaker 3: distilling what you're bringing with you because the stuff does
3:15
Speaker 3: weigh you down.
3:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say that that is the thing that
3:19
Speaker 1: I see most often when it comes to best practice
3:22
Speaker 1: that's violated is vehicles that are over their gross vehicle
3:25
Speaker 1: weight rating, or even if they're pulling a trailer, there're
3:27
Speaker 1: oftentimes over the gross combined vehicle weight rating. And it
3:32
Speaker 1: makes me think of a funny thing a few years ago.
3:34
Speaker 1: If you worked and did any work on an iPhone,
3:37
Speaker 1: if you would type in the word overlanding, it would
3:39
Speaker 1: auto coverload, it would auto correct it to overloading, which
3:43
Speaker 1: I thought was such beautiful karma, And something for us
3:46
Speaker 1: all to remember is that we often do overload our vehicles.
3:51
Speaker 1: And I will tell you and everyone else that's listening
3:53
Speaker 1: is I have done this so many times in my life,
3:57
Speaker 1: and I regret every time that I've overbuilt a vehicle
4:00
Speaker 1: and overloaded a vehicle. I've always ended up with something
4:02
Speaker 1: that didn't perform properly, something that suffered more damage and
4:06
Speaker 1: failures and reliability issues. I enjoyed it less as the driver.
4:11
Speaker 1: So there are a lot of reasons we're going to
4:14
Speaker 1: talk about those today to keep the vehicle undergross vehicle
4:17
Speaker 1: weight rating. Maybe let's start with talking about a couple
4:20
Speaker 1: of the key terms. Matt, what do you think about
4:23
Speaker 1: kind of giving us an overview on So?
4:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you're going to hear us say GVWR a
4:29
Speaker 3: lot and GVWRs. It's really simple. It's gross vehicle weight rating.
4:34
Speaker 3: That is the rating that the manufacturer gives that particular automobile,
4:40
Speaker 3: you know, and that's what they certify it too. So
4:42
Speaker 3: if your curb weight is five pounds and you have
4:46
Speaker 3: a cargo capacity or payload of fifteen hundred pounds, well
4:51
Speaker 3: your gross vehicle weight rating is going to be sixty
4:54
Speaker 3: five hundred pounds.
4:55
Speaker 2: It's really simple.
4:56
Speaker 3: So payload is gross vehicle weight rating minus curb weight exactly.
5:01
Speaker 3: Now you have your and that's the factory curb weight.
5:04
Speaker 1: That's not where your truck is today, it's how it
5:06
Speaker 1: came out of the factory, and that's how they assign
5:08
Speaker 1: those things.
5:09
Speaker 3: And something that we just learned, which there is I
5:11
Speaker 3: guess some discrepancy on, is that your payload is calculated
5:15
Speaker 3: with a full tank of gas. All of your liquids
5:19
Speaker 3: break fluid, cool oil, engine oil, and nothing else.
5:24
Speaker 1: Yep, no consideration towards passengers in the in the curb weight.
5:27
Speaker 2: So that's really important.
5:28
Speaker 1: And we'll talk about some of the things that add up,
5:30
Speaker 1: and then we're also going to discuss ways to address
5:33
Speaker 1: this some ideas that we've found in our travels at
5:36
Speaker 1: help with that. The next thing that we're going to
5:38
Speaker 1: talk about is the gross combined vehicle weight rating, and
5:42
Speaker 1: that is both both the gross vehicle weight rating of
5:45
Speaker 1: the vehicle plus the towing capacity of the vehicle. So
5:48
Speaker 1: if you add those two items together, you get the
5:51
Speaker 1: gross combined vehicle weight rating. And sometimes that's the only
5:54
Speaker 1: way to solve the payload problem is to tow a
5:57
Speaker 1: trailer or a trailer. Yeah, and that really is applicable
6:00
Speaker 1: if you think about a family that where there's two
6:04
Speaker 1: kids or three kids, you can easily occupy a lot
6:06
Speaker 1: of the space within the vehicle that could normally be
6:09
Speaker 1: allocated towards equipment. So I think trailers are very appropriate
6:12
Speaker 1: for families. Where I start to get a little concerned
6:16
Speaker 1: is when I see a solo driver or a couple that.
6:19
Speaker 3: Have completely built out vehicle and a trailer. Yeah, they
6:21
Speaker 3: have one hundred series land Cruiser and a trailer behind it.
6:25
Speaker 3: I start to get a little bit concerned that maybe
6:27
Speaker 3: they're overdoing it. To start, you can't win anything at overlanding, right.
6:31
Speaker 3: Overlanding is something for yourself, So you're not winning by
6:34
Speaker 3: bolting more stuff on right, you know, like he who
6:37
Speaker 3: has the most does not win overlanding who he who
6:41
Speaker 3: has seen the most? Right, Yeah, the only sent the
6:44
Speaker 3: only thing that really impresses me anymore is people's passports
6:47
Speaker 3: and their stories and where they've been and what they've
6:50
Speaker 3: experienced and how it's changed them. So yeah, we want
6:54
Speaker 3: to keep it as simple as as possible. The next
6:56
Speaker 3: thing is curb weight as a definition, curb weight is
6:59
Speaker 3: the manufacturers curb weight, and then there can also be
7:03
Speaker 3: a curb weight that you get when you add modifications
7:06
Speaker 3: and you go and you take it to a local
7:08
Speaker 3: scale and you figure out what your current vehicle weight is,
7:11
Speaker 3: and that'll give that's really important to do. It's important
7:13
Speaker 3: to do on a regular basis, so that way you
7:15
Speaker 3: can get a baseline of how your truck is against
7:18
Speaker 3: those gross vehicle weight ratings roofload rating. That's not something
7:23
Speaker 3: that you hear thrown around a lot. It is almost
7:27
Speaker 3: always grossly blown over through the aftermarket, except for the
7:31
Speaker 3: new Defender. Is pretty easy. Four hundred pounds of dynams,
7:36
Speaker 3: three hundred and sixty pounds of dynamics of dynamic and
7:39
Speaker 3: I believe close to five hundred or five hundred and
7:41
Speaker 3: fifty pounds of static And another good example of that
7:45
Speaker 3: as a two hundred series land cruiser around two hundred
7:47
Speaker 3: and forty pounds two hundred and fifty pounds of roofload
7:51
Speaker 3: rating under dynamic conditions. There are very few other vehicles
7:56
Speaker 3: that get close to that. Most of the four whol
7:58
Speaker 3: drives that we see, four runners and jeeps, et cetera,
8:01
Speaker 3: they end up somewhere between the eighty and the one
8:03
Speaker 3: hundred and forty, maybe one hundred and fifty pounds if
8:05
Speaker 3: you're lucky. So that's really important. If you remember how
8:08
Speaker 3: much of a roof tent weighs, they can easily weigh
8:11
Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty to one hundred and fifty pounds,
8:13
Speaker 3: so you basically end up with a roof tint and
8:15
Speaker 3: a couple crossbars and that's it. And this is really
8:18
Speaker 3: critical if you think about it. Those ratings are set
8:21
Speaker 3: for the vehicle at stock suspension height and stock center
8:24
Speaker 3: of gravity. Once we start to lift our vehicles and
8:27
Speaker 3: add into lower yeah, add taller section height tires, we
8:31
Speaker 3: start to really stress those vehicle dynamics that help support
8:34
Speaker 3: that roofload. So we really need to be thinking hard
8:38
Speaker 3: about when we start to add roofloads, or let's just
8:42
Speaker 3: start with buying the right vehicle. In my mind, if
8:44
Speaker 3: you want to put a bunch of stuff on the
8:46
Speaker 3: roof by a two hundred series by a defender, yeah,
8:48
Speaker 3: I mean every action that you do to your vehicle
8:51
Speaker 3: has the reaction, and I think that's the important thing
8:54
Speaker 3: to know while we talk payload, right, just keep it
8:58
Speaker 3: in mind. So sprung and unsprung weight pretty simple. So basically,
9:03
Speaker 3: anything your suspension is holding up that is sprung weight.
9:07
Speaker 3: Everything that your suspension is not holding up, so that's
9:11
Speaker 3: below the bottom of let's say that coil spring that
9:14
Speaker 3: is unsprung weight. You also have rotating mass and things
9:17
Speaker 3: like that. I guess the old race car thing with
9:20
Speaker 3: rotating mass was any any pound of rotating mass you
9:23
Speaker 3: added was seven pounds of unsprung weight. You know, you're
9:27
Speaker 3: you're also kind of putting in there. So people that
9:29
Speaker 3: are putting in, you know, really heavy tires. Let's say
9:32
Speaker 3: you have a Forerunner with a you know that doesn't
9:35
Speaker 3: even have an LT construction tire from the factory, and
9:39
Speaker 3: you go to a thirty five where you're probably adding
9:42
Speaker 3: twenty five to thirty pounds of rotating mass times seven
9:46
Speaker 3: like that is where you really start to feel feel
9:49
Speaker 3: that weight you do effects acceleration, breaking everything.
9:53
Speaker 1: Certainly does it. It definitely affects acceleration and breaking acceleration.
9:57
Speaker 1: We can address to a small degree by changing the
10:01
Speaker 1: gear ratio of the vehicle. The braking performance we can
10:04
Speaker 1: improve slightly by improving the brakes and proving the sweep area,
10:08
Speaker 1: proving the caliper configuration. But then you also have reciprocating mass,
10:13
Speaker 1: which means that's the tire and the wheel going up
10:16
Speaker 1: and down, and that weight is something that the suspension
10:19
Speaker 1: needs to now manage. It becomes more difficult for the
10:22
Speaker 1: shocks to manage that, which means increase heat within the
10:26
Speaker 1: shock absorbers fluid, and it's also more difficult for the
10:29
Speaker 1: spring to manage that. So anytime we add weight to
10:32
Speaker 1: the vehicle, we want to be really mindful of that. Now,
10:34
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that you don't put big tires on
10:36
Speaker 1: a vehicle. In order to cross Antarctica, you got to
10:38
Speaker 1: run forty four inch tires, but you end up with
10:41
Speaker 1: very little suspension travel and they are not designed to
10:44
Speaker 1: operate at high speeds. Everything's a give and take and
10:46
Speaker 1: that compromise needs to be considered when we build our vehicles.
10:50
Speaker 1: If you do a lot of highway driving, you use
10:52
Speaker 1: the vehicle every day as a daily driver, be very
10:55
Speaker 1: careful about putting big tires on it.
10:56
Speaker 2: Yeah.
10:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I also caution to large tires don't necessarily mix.
11:02
Speaker 3: If you're going to be running over a gross vehicle weight,
11:05
Speaker 3: you know, the more your vehicle has to has to
11:08
Speaker 3: essentially push that, you know, the more your engine has
11:11
Speaker 3: to push you know, that's just going to further reduce
11:15
Speaker 3: that cargo capacity the vehicle.
11:17
Speaker 1: And here's the crazy thing. It becomes a compounding issue.
11:21
Speaker 1: So once you get close to gross vehicle weight or
11:23
Speaker 1: over it, then the vehicle breaks down more often, so
11:26
Speaker 1: you tend to bring more spares, and you tend to
11:28
Speaker 1: bring more tools to fit those spares, which makes the
11:31
Speaker 1: vehicle heavier. All of those things start to become a factor.
11:34
Speaker 1: It starts to compound it. And then you think, I
11:37
Speaker 1: need to add a turbo charger because the vehicle is
11:39
Speaker 1: so slow, and that adds additional weight. And every time
11:42
Speaker 1: that we do that, it affects the overall performance. So
11:45
Speaker 1: we oftentimes have the most fun and we enjoy our
11:48
Speaker 1: vehicles most when they're the lightest and the closest to stock.
11:51
Speaker 1: So if we use that as the baseline and then
11:53
Speaker 1: we only add things when we absolutely have to, we
11:55
Speaker 1: end up with a much lighter vehicle. Now, all of
11:58
Speaker 1: these definitions that we talked about, they come from a
12:02
Speaker 1: series of regulations and OEM engineering parameters that they use
12:08
Speaker 1: to determine gross vehicle weight, trailer towing capacity, et cetera.
12:12
Speaker 1: One of those is the SAE J two eight oh seven.
12:16
Speaker 1: When you talk about that a little bit.
12:18
Speaker 3: Now, yeah, so s A J two eight o seven.
12:22
Speaker 3: You know that is the Society of Automotive Engineers. That
12:25
Speaker 3: is basically a group of of you know, engineers that
12:28
Speaker 3: work for OEM companies that have said, hey, this is
12:31
Speaker 3: the standard testing procedure that we're going to do. Now,
12:34
Speaker 3: the biggest part of that that test is what they
12:36
Speaker 3: call the Davis Dam test. So that's actually in Arizona.
12:40
Speaker 3: It's Arizona SR. Sixty eight. If you're if you're crazy,
12:43
Speaker 3: It runs up a you know, a big dam. It's
12:46
Speaker 3: several thousand feet that you're gaining in a relatively short distance,
12:50
Speaker 3: and that's really that's meant to test the cooling capacity
12:53
Speaker 3: of the of the vehicle, is it going to overheat?
12:57
Speaker 3: You know, And there's a lot of things that also
12:59
Speaker 3: affect your you know, payload, believe it or not, affects
13:03
Speaker 3: the cooling capacity of your vehicle. If you guys check
13:07
Speaker 3: out my Gladiator Build podcast. One of the things I
13:11
Speaker 3: talk about is regearing. It not necessarily for performance that
13:16
Speaker 3: eight speed could you know, handle the thirty sevens relatively fine.
13:19
Speaker 3: But it's actually about keeping the you know, keeping your
13:22
Speaker 3: cooling system in check, because that's where the Gladiator's biggest
13:26
Speaker 3: limitation is. And I think that you'll find in a
13:28
Speaker 3: lot of vehicles. You know, most of the vehicles we
13:30
Speaker 3: drive aren't necessarily overpowered, you know, unless you're driving an
13:34
Speaker 3: F two fifty or a RAM twenty five hundred or something, right,
13:37
Speaker 3: But keep an eye on also that cooling capacity set
13:40
Speaker 3: is directly directly related to payload.
13:43
Speaker 1: Also it also gearing is mechanical advantage. Exactly, once you
13:47
Speaker 1: add much larger diameter tires, you've changed the whole leverage
13:50
Speaker 1: on the system, and the vehicle has to work harder
13:53
Speaker 1: to get those heavier now and larger diameter tires accelerated,
13:59
Speaker 1: and that adds heat into the automatic transmission, or it
14:02
Speaker 1: adds strain on the clutch, and we have to think
14:05
Speaker 1: about all of those impacts. And that's why that's part
14:07
Speaker 1: of these SEE.
14:08
Speaker 3: Regulations and the other things that are looking at is acceleration,
14:11
Speaker 3: Like you know, they have a standard where they have
14:14
Speaker 3: x amount of weight and the vehicle has to accelerate
14:16
Speaker 3: to sixty mill an hour under a certain amount of time.
14:19
Speaker 3: You know, they're checking for trailers way, they're checking for
14:21
Speaker 3: breaking performance, they're checking for you know, the structural engineering
14:27
Speaker 3: of the vehicle. Can the frame actually handle it. You know,
14:30
Speaker 3: there's a great story on Jelopnik that Andrew Collins wrote.
14:34
Speaker 3: If you just google sa J two eight oh seven,
14:37
Speaker 3: it will explain that in detail. That'll be in the
14:40
Speaker 3: show notes. Really really suggests I would suggest check it out.
14:43
Speaker 1: And the more that we educate ourselves on the limits
14:45
Speaker 1: of our vehicles and the implications of that, which is
14:48
Speaker 1: the next thing we're going to talk about having a
14:50
Speaker 1: vehicle overgross vehicle weight. There are several issues with that.
14:53
Speaker 1: First of all, there's I think an ethical component. If
14:56
Speaker 1: you can't properly swerve around a child that came out
15:00
Speaker 1: of the street after a ball. I think that we
15:03
Speaker 1: have a duty to make sure that the vehicles can
15:05
Speaker 1: handle properly. But then there's also the consideration of you're
15:10
Speaker 1: on the trip of a lifetime. You get your one
15:12
Speaker 1: week of vacation to go down to Baja, and now
15:15
Speaker 1: you have a vehicle that either overheats the transmission, or
15:19
Speaker 1: you smoke the brakes, or you blow a corner and
15:22
Speaker 1: you end up rolling or damaging the vehicle, and your
15:25
Speaker 1: trip's over. There's consequences to all of that. But then
15:28
Speaker 1: there's also legal considerations. If you get into an accident
15:31
Speaker 1: and the vehicle's determined to be grossly overweight, you can
15:34
Speaker 1: be cited by the officer on scene or you could
15:37
Speaker 1: be held liable later. It can also result in the
15:40
Speaker 1: insurance company not accepting your claim, particularly if it results
15:45
Speaker 1: in injury or death to the individual that you've had
15:48
Speaker 1: an impact with, or if they can clearly demonstrate that
15:51
Speaker 1: the vehicle being overloaded, which was an intention by the owner,
15:55
Speaker 1: resulted in the crash. So we need to be very
15:58
Speaker 1: careful about that for bothical legal and and our ability
16:02
Speaker 1: to do an insurance claim.
16:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, and and some states will even go as far
16:06
Speaker 3: as to include this in in their annual inspection I
16:10
Speaker 3: want to say that if it's registered to a business
16:13
Speaker 3: in Maryland, for example, they actually they have the ability
16:18
Speaker 3: to weigh the vehicle. Now they may not always do that,
16:21
Speaker 3: but it is something that can happen, you know that.
16:23
Speaker 3: I think the biggest problem with with payload is that
16:26
Speaker 3: it's something that's ignored because it's not necessarily enforced in
16:29
Speaker 3: the United States. Right, there's there's there's very little negative
16:34
Speaker 3: repercussion on a day to day basis, if any. I
16:37
Speaker 3: think a lot of it comes when something does go wrong, right,
16:40
Speaker 3: you know, you're really you know, up a creek without
16:42
Speaker 3: a paddle. Australia is a great example, is a good example.
16:45
Speaker 3: You know they actually they actually have roadside at GVWR
16:49
Speaker 3: way stations where they will defect the vehicle and tow
16:52
Speaker 3: your car. They'll also check for you know, if the
16:55
Speaker 3: tires are outside of the arches or if there's too
16:58
Speaker 3: much suspension lift. I always think that Australia really is
17:02
Speaker 3: leading in terms of the industry and safety and it's
17:06
Speaker 3: very important I think for everybody that's listening to this
17:09
Speaker 3: podcast to consider it.
17:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, just consider it.
17:13
Speaker 1: It can feel sometimes like big Brother, but I think
17:16
Speaker 1: if as a community we do some self policing, and
17:19
Speaker 1: we start to pay attention to it, we can help
17:22
Speaker 1: stave off some of those laws that may feel like
17:24
Speaker 1: big brother in the future. A lot of that stuff
17:26
Speaker 1: is literally about just ensuring that people are responsible, and
17:30
Speaker 1: Australia is a great absolutely a great example.
17:33
Speaker 3: I mean, but choose We're so lucky here. You know,
17:36
Speaker 3: they're they're they're kind of screwed because you know, they
17:39
Speaker 3: cannot readily get a Bram thirty five hundred that has
17:43
Speaker 3: a four thousand pounds payload capacity or whatever it is.
17:46
Speaker 2: I'm not even keeping up these days.
17:48
Speaker 3: We have lots of options, and I think choosing the
17:50
Speaker 3: right vehicle is great. I mean, that's the place, you
17:53
Speaker 3: know every time. I love Tacomas and I hate to
17:56
Speaker 3: rag on Tacomas. They're just the They're the standard overland
17:59
Speaker 3: vehicle in the United States now. But when I see
18:02
Speaker 3: it's a coma that has an eleven hundred and fifty
18:03
Speaker 3: pounds payload capacity, has drum brakes in the rear sea channel?
18:08
Speaker 2: Are they boxed frame? I don't believe so. I don't
18:10
Speaker 2: believe so.
18:11
Speaker 3: The high locks, especially in the back, you know, aft
18:14
Speaker 3: of the spring hangers, and people put a flatbed, a
18:18
Speaker 3: full four wheel camper. They put bumpers, sliders, winches, larger tires,
18:24
Speaker 3: all this stuff. You know that they have three thousand
18:26
Speaker 3: pounds of stuff easily in a car that can legally
18:30
Speaker 3: carry eleven hundred or so pounds of stuff. We have
18:35
Speaker 3: guys that have you know, full sized dreams on a
18:38
Speaker 3: on a you know, a quarter ton chassis.
18:41
Speaker 1: Right, And that's what I did with my Tacoma years ago.
18:44
Speaker 1: I just kept adding stuff in adding states. It's so easy,
18:48
Speaker 1: and I regret it. The vehicle suffered because of it.
18:52
Speaker 1: Fortunately it's a Toyota, so there is definitely some they
18:55
Speaker 1: just early don't break some tolerance.
18:57
Speaker 3: I actually have been on a trip with a a
19:00
Speaker 3: guy who who shall remain nameless, that wanted to keep
19:02
Speaker 3: up with my JKA that was on you know, Fox
19:06
Speaker 3: suspension and everything and a ground tent, and they had
19:09
Speaker 3: a full on camper in Monument Valley and they launched
19:12
Speaker 3: it off.
19:13
Speaker 2: Not sorry, not Monument Valley. What's the one close to it?
19:16
Speaker 2: No value?
19:17
Speaker 3: The gods value. Gods got it bent the frame.
19:20
Speaker 2: I don't know.
19:21
Speaker 3: I mean, it happens, it happens, it can happen, So
19:24
Speaker 3: I think it's important while it is a Toyota, I
19:27
Speaker 3: have actually seen every vehicle I haven't seen as Toyota break.
19:31
Speaker 1: Every vehicle has its limits for sure, and I think
19:34
Speaker 1: that that's what comes to the next point is there
19:36
Speaker 1: are a lot of factors that come to play with this,
19:39
Speaker 1: and it's also the slow boil. We add these things
19:42
Speaker 1: very incrementally. If you went from driving your vehicle in
19:45
Speaker 1: stock condition to the next day, I could put you
19:48
Speaker 1: in the driver's seat with it as you've modified it today,
19:50
Speaker 1: I would think, holy cow, you would think I can't stop.
19:54
Speaker 1: This thing doesn't handle properly. It's accelerates so slowly. Why
19:58
Speaker 1: am I getting thirty five percent percent less fuel economy?
20:01
Speaker 1: Which that's another factor. It's just like the spare parts
20:05
Speaker 1: and tools. If you make the vehicle less efficient, you
20:07
Speaker 1: need to now carry more fuel, which adds more weight,
20:10
Speaker 1: which adds to the problem. So it really does compound.
20:14
Speaker 1: And there are core elements of the vehicle that you
20:17
Speaker 1: can adjust to help improve some of these performance indicators.
20:21
Speaker 1: We're not at all suggesting that you run over payload,
20:24
Speaker 1: but if you're maybe getting up to that ninety ninety
20:26
Speaker 1: five percent of gross vehicle weight, there are things that
20:29
Speaker 1: you can do to bring back some of those performance characteristics.
20:32
Speaker 1: Mac talked about regearing. That's a critical one. You can
20:35
Speaker 1: upgrade the axles. A lot of vehicles are coming with
20:38
Speaker 1: better than in the past axles, like Gladiator and the
20:41
Speaker 1: JL for example, they're coming out with heavy duty data
20:44
Speaker 1: forty fours. But you can upgrade the axles, you can
20:47
Speaker 1: upgrade the bearings. You have to make sure that your
20:50
Speaker 1: wheels and tires can support the weight that you've added
20:52
Speaker 1: to the vehicle. You can adjust your spring rates, going
20:56
Speaker 1: with an old Man Amuse suspension or another or a
20:59
Speaker 1: av or Icon, any of these high quality brands that
21:03
Speaker 1: manufacture springs that have an additional load capacity. That's a
21:07
Speaker 1: great way to be able to address the right height
21:11
Speaker 1: that you're trying to maintain with the additional load. Of course,
21:14
Speaker 1: you want to make sure that the shock valving is appropriate. Yes,
21:17
Speaker 1: or I had that issue, you know with the Gladiator.
21:20
Speaker 1: They're just there were no options out too soft, Yeah,
21:23
Speaker 1: too soft. What are some other things you think we
21:25
Speaker 1: can do to improve the vehicle with additional weight?
21:28
Speaker 3: You know, I think I think the best thing you
21:30
Speaker 3: can do is the cheapest one, and it's it's keep
21:32
Speaker 3: an eye on what's actually in your vehicle. You know
21:34
Speaker 3: the best way to do this, And this isn't my method.
21:37
Speaker 3: This is a method from a guy Steve I know
21:39
Speaker 3: in the UK. But let us start putting stickers on things.
21:42
Speaker 3: If you don't use it, put a sticker on it
21:43
Speaker 3: and it makes you kind of cognizant of Hey, maybe
21:46
Speaker 3: I don't need this French press, right, Maybe I don't
21:50
Speaker 3: need the ice cream maker. Maybe I don't need the
21:53
Speaker 3: washing machine. I mean the things I've seen that people
21:55
Speaker 3: bring with them are absolutely crazy.
21:57
Speaker 1: Or a bench spice, yes, well that they fabricate this
22:02
Speaker 1: vice on a receiver hitch and the thing. I mean,
22:06
Speaker 1: they're they're struggling to get it out of the car
22:08
Speaker 1: and anything that's that heavy. It makes a big difference.
22:11
Speaker 1: You can also improve engine cooling, which is something that's
22:14
Speaker 1: really important for vehicles like an eighty series. You can
22:16
Speaker 1: also improve breaking performance. Yeah, and you can, especially in
22:20
Speaker 1: older vehicles.
22:21
Speaker 3: You can like the eighty series for example, there's actually
22:23
Speaker 3: a factory Toyota auxiliary fan. If you google, you know
22:27
Speaker 3: JDM auxiliary fan. It's an electric fan. I put that
22:30
Speaker 3: in mine. Some models got a transmission cooler, some models didn't,
22:34
Speaker 3: so look into that. You know, I always say if
22:36
Speaker 3: you're minding your car, always get the towing package because
22:39
Speaker 3: then that beefs up the cooling system and transmission cooling
22:41
Speaker 3: and everything. You know, so look and see, Okay, well
22:45
Speaker 3: can I generally transmission engine it's a matter of a
22:49
Speaker 3: matter of getting rid of that heat, right. So the
22:52
Speaker 3: more the more thermal cooling you can, you know you
22:56
Speaker 3: can add, the better gearing is also going to do
22:58
Speaker 3: a lot a lot for that. In my opinion, that
23:01
Speaker 3: reduces the load on the engine. I think a lot
23:03
Speaker 3: of this stuff comes down to gearing and suspension, it
23:07
Speaker 3: really does.
23:07
Speaker 2: And don't push it.
23:09
Speaker 1: You know, if someone's right at gross vehicle weight, they
23:11
Speaker 1: can maybe make the argument for it. But what happens
23:14
Speaker 1: when you need to add other passengers because you're the
23:16
Speaker 1: vehicle that's with you breaks down, or you need to
23:18
Speaker 1: put some of their gear on the roof rack, or
23:21
Speaker 1: your significant other finds, you know, the arm will of
23:24
Speaker 1: their dreams down in Baja and you want to put
23:26
Speaker 1: that on the roof rackw It's so easy to add
23:29
Speaker 1: a bunch of extra weight when you're not when you're
23:31
Speaker 1: not paying attention to that, particularly if you need to
23:33
Speaker 1: add bring extra fool long and I find it's it's
23:37
Speaker 1: just something that you have to think of, and sometimes
23:39
Speaker 1: you have to think of differently.
23:40
Speaker 3: If you have a two thousand pounds you know payload capacity,
23:45
Speaker 3: well maybe don't think of it as two thousand pounds.
23:47
Speaker 3: Maybe think okay, well I'm going to be in it,
23:49
Speaker 3: my partners who me in it, and let's just say
23:51
Speaker 3: we're both two hunred pounds because we're all Americans. So
23:53
Speaker 3: then think of it as sixteen hundred pounds. Stop fooling
23:56
Speaker 3: yourself because you have to put yourself in the in
23:59
Speaker 3: that seat too, you know, find you know, figure out
24:02
Speaker 3: how much your fridgeways, but then figure out how much
24:04
Speaker 3: your fridgeways full of beer. Figure out, you know, figure
24:09
Speaker 3: if you're gonna put drawers in your vehicle, that's great,
24:11
Speaker 3: Well don't let the drawers just become a place to
24:14
Speaker 3: accumulate crap. Also, I think tools like It's tools are
24:18
Speaker 3: tough because you can always tell yourself, oh, I'm going
24:20
Speaker 3: to need it, but well, if your car's in metric,
24:22
Speaker 3: why are you bringing you know, standard tools with you
24:25
Speaker 3: and try try and pair things down. Like tools are
24:29
Speaker 3: a place where you can save a lot away, like
24:32
Speaker 3: I will actually work on my vehicle at home from
24:35
Speaker 3: the toolkit that is in my vehicle, and I will
24:38
Speaker 3: take things out that I don't need.
24:40
Speaker 1: Or maybe add the things you do, like the right
24:42
Speaker 1: hub ranch or yeah, exactly like that.
24:44
Speaker 2: But don't underprepared. Yeah, just don't bring what you need along.
24:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't don't bring stuff to fix the school bus
24:52
Speaker 3: in Ushuaia that you might run into.
24:54
Speaker 1: Or or don't put a high lift on the rack
24:57
Speaker 1: if you don't have a place for the high lift.
25:00
Speaker 1: A lift from a lot of modern vehicles simply don't
25:03
Speaker 1: have jacking points that are suitable.
25:06
Speaker 2: And man, that is like.
25:07
Speaker 3: The ultimate poser mark too is the rusted the rusted
25:11
Speaker 3: out high lift on the you know, the roof rack
25:14
Speaker 3: of the FJ Cruiser that has no points to use
25:18
Speaker 3: it from. I mean, I guess to be a fairy
25:20
Speaker 3: you could be using one of those wheel wheel mounts.
25:22
Speaker 1: But sure, but think of if you're going to use
25:25
Speaker 1: it if you need it? Are there other solutions? Can
25:28
Speaker 1: These are some other hacks that Matt and I have
25:30
Speaker 1: thought about. But can you buy things that have multiple
25:33
Speaker 1: uses so that you don't have to have three highly
25:36
Speaker 1: specialized items. You can have one that can do the
25:38
Speaker 1: work of all of those, like, for example, a camp light.
25:41
Speaker 1: Instead of putting a bunch of lights on the rack,
25:44
Speaker 1: have one camp light with a with a clamp that
25:47
Speaker 1: you can move around on the rack where you need it,
25:50
Speaker 1: move it into the tent, so you're not bringing all
25:52
Speaker 1: those extra things along. When you start to look at
25:55
Speaker 1: that detail and you start to be more mindful of
25:57
Speaker 1: what you're purchasing, that really helps. And I'll also think
26:00
Speaker 1: it's really important when you start adding items, do the
26:02
Speaker 1: research on how much it weighs, and then start a spreadsheet.
26:06
Speaker 1: I'm not really a spreadsheet guy, but this is the
26:07
Speaker 1: perfect example of a spreadsheet. Start the spreadsheet with the
26:11
Speaker 1: payload that you have available in the vehicle, and start
26:15
Speaker 1: to add your accessories up before you buy them. And
26:17
Speaker 1: then as you buy them, now they're on your list
26:19
Speaker 1: and you can add new accessories as you have payload available.
26:24
Speaker 1: But one of the cool things that you can do
26:25
Speaker 1: to help with that calculation is remove the weight of
26:29
Speaker 1: the stuff that you've taken out of the vehicle. So
26:31
Speaker 1: a great and probably the best example of that is
26:34
Speaker 1: don't drive around with third row seats in the vehicle.
26:37
Speaker 1: If you don't have passengers to fill three rows seats.
26:42
Speaker 1: Those are very heavy. The safety requirements behind automotive seats
26:46
Speaker 1: is mind boggling, and as a result, they're extremely heavy.
26:50
Speaker 1: I remember I took the seats out of the back
26:52
Speaker 1: of my g wagon and they weighed hundreds of pounds. Yeah,
26:56
Speaker 1: they were so like typical German engineering.
26:58
Speaker 2: They were.
26:58
Speaker 1: I mean they had they had struts and which made
27:01
Speaker 1: them like soft clothes and helped you lift them, and
27:04
Speaker 1: like they were literally built to come out of the
27:08
Speaker 1: back of a C one thirty. It was amazing how
27:10
Speaker 1: how well they were constructed. But I saved hundreds of
27:13
Speaker 1: pounds when.
27:14
Speaker 3: I easily Yeah, I just did a goose gear rear
27:17
Speaker 3: seat delete in my Gladiator, and I think we probably
27:20
Speaker 3: netted between fifteen and seventy five pounds. And that's a
27:23
Speaker 3: lot even by adding something back in, and that's something
27:27
Speaker 3: that we were never even going to use. Yeah, and
27:29
Speaker 3: put that on your spreadsheet.
27:30
Speaker 2: That look.
27:30
Speaker 1: I removed the factory bumper which weighed thirty five pounds,
27:34
Speaker 1: and I put on the ARB bumper, which weighed one
27:36
Speaker 1: hundred and ten pounds. With the winch, that way you
27:39
Speaker 1: can see where you've gained as well as lost available payload.
27:44
Speaker 1: Another reason for us all to be mindful of about
27:47
Speaker 1: even how much we weigh.
27:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, it all adds. That all adds to it.
27:51
Speaker 1: So I guess in summary is it is about safety
27:56
Speaker 1: at the core, but it's also about performance. We want
27:59
Speaker 1: our vehicle to perform. We want them to make that
28:01
Speaker 1: climb in front of all of our buddies. If you
28:04
Speaker 1: have a really heavy truck, that climb now becomes significantly
28:08
Speaker 1: more difficult, difficult. All that weight is shifted to the
28:11
Speaker 1: rear tires. Especially, have a rear heavy loaded vehicle, that
28:15
Speaker 1: front tire will be very inclined to be unloaded or
28:18
Speaker 1: to even come off the ground, which is going to
28:21
Speaker 1: reduce available traction. So certainly we think of it from
28:25
Speaker 1: a safety and a legal standpoint, But at the end
28:28
Speaker 1: of the day, we want our trucks to perform well
28:30
Speaker 1: and we want them to be fun to drive. Why
28:32
Speaker 1: make them so heavy that they stop being fun to drive?
28:35
Speaker 1: And we just want to treat the vehicle good. The
28:37
Speaker 1: vehicle is your horse, and in this scenario, right, you
28:39
Speaker 1: don't want to put too much on the horse's back
28:42
Speaker 1: to where it breaks the back of the horse. That's right,
28:44
Speaker 1: So that's right, and there's there's that great Massai warrior
28:48
Speaker 1: phrase that says a warrior carries his experience on his back.
28:52
Speaker 1: And if you if you have too much stuff, it
28:54
Speaker 1: might be that you're better off spending a little bit
28:57
Speaker 1: of money on training or spending more time in the
28:59
Speaker 1: field to realize what you don't need or what you
29:01
Speaker 1: can do with less.
29:02
Speaker 3: And realistically look at where your trip is taking you.
29:05
Speaker 3: I talk to Sony people that say they're going to
29:08
Speaker 3: go and do the Pan American Highway, for example, and
29:12
Speaker 3: they come back and they're like, I don't know why
29:13
Speaker 3: I spent one thousand dollars on these two hundred fifty
29:17
Speaker 3: pounds rock sliders. I was off the pavement for like
29:20
Speaker 3: twenty minutes. You know, like figure out what you value
29:24
Speaker 3: and recognize that, you know, travel and overlin travel is
29:28
Speaker 3: not exclusive to off road travel. They don't have to
29:32
Speaker 3: be the same thing, and you shouldn't have to feel
29:35
Speaker 3: that you need to have these things. There's nothing wrong
29:39
Speaker 3: with a stock bumper, you know, there's nothing you know.
29:42
Speaker 3: I always say, if you're going to go overkill on anything,
29:45
Speaker 3: make sure you have good tires, but just go. I mean,
29:48
Speaker 3: you can do all of this out of duffel bag.
29:49
Speaker 3: Scott and I have both done it a million times
29:52
Speaker 3: in press cars. You fly in, you have your duffel
29:55
Speaker 3: bag with your stuff, and you go and some of
29:57
Speaker 3: those those are some of my most enjoyable trips.
29:59
Speaker 1: You're right, because then you're not distracted by all that stuff,
30:02
Speaker 1: all the stuff, and I think kind of in summary,
30:05
Speaker 1: it's important to focus on what's most important. If you
30:10
Speaker 1: really enjoy technical terrain and getting very remote in southern Utah,
30:14
Speaker 1: those sliders might be a very good idea, but then
30:17
Speaker 1: that means you should camp like a backpacker in order
30:20
Speaker 1: to make up the difference. If you really want comfort
30:24
Speaker 1: when you're traveling and you don't do that much technical driving,
30:27
Speaker 1: then you can leave the sliders and then add your
30:30
Speaker 1: comfort elements, your rough ten or whatever. And then it
30:34
Speaker 1: is important to remember that you do have the gross
30:36
Speaker 1: combined vehicle weight rating as a last resort, which means
30:40
Speaker 1: that you could add a trailer that would give you
30:42
Speaker 1: additional capacity.
30:44
Speaker 2: And there's that nice trailers market now.
30:45
Speaker 1: They're so comfortable, they're so comfortable, and that's particularly relevant
30:49
Speaker 1: to those that are traveling as a family in a
30:51
Speaker 1: smaller vehicle that could be a great solution.
30:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know, I always say anywhere you are
30:57
Speaker 3: in the third World, there will there will have been
30:59
Speaker 3: a Toyota Corolla that has gone down that road, And
31:02
Speaker 3: almost every place that you're going in America there is
31:05
Speaker 3: some kind of biologist and a bone stock f one
31:08
Speaker 3: point fifty with the cheapest tires the government would buy,
31:11
Speaker 3: that has gone down that same exact road. So I
31:14
Speaker 3: will just leave everybody with the concept of need versus want.
31:18
Speaker 3: Just make sure you have a healthy balance.
31:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, Well, thanks for all your thoughts on this, Matt,
31:23
Speaker 1: and thanks to everyone that is listening.
31:25
Speaker 2: We appreciate it.
31:26
Speaker 1: We look forward to your comments and feedback we've been
31:30
Speaker 1: We've started a thread on Expedition Portal dot com in
31:32
Speaker 1: the forum where you can list questions and ideas. You
31:36
Speaker 1: can also reach out to us via the various social channels.
31:41
Speaker 3: Scott, what is your Instagram? It's a global overland as
31:44
Speaker 3: mine and yours. I am Matt's explore.
31:47
Speaker 2: There you go.
31:48
Speaker 1: So if people have ideas, questions, thoughts for a future episode,
31:52
Speaker 1: or if you'd like to be on an episode and
31:54
Speaker 1: you have some thoughts you'd like to share that way,
31:56
Speaker 1: please just reach out to US and we will get
31:58
Speaker 1: in touch cool. Thanks guys, thanks for listening.