Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / The Physician Workforce Shortage: How Health Systems Can Attract, Flex, and Enable Their Workforce

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The Physician Workforce Shortage: How Health Systems Can Attract, Flex, and Enable Their Workforce · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

• 0:00
  - Hello, everyone. This is Jacob Emerson with the
• 0:02
  - Becker's Healthcare Podcast.
• 0:04
  - Thanks so much for tuning in today where
• 0:05
  - we're gonna be diving into the physician workforce
• 0:08
  - shortage and how health systems can attract,
• 0:11
  - flex, and enable their workforce.
• 0:13
  - Joining me for today's discussion is Melinda Geiss,
• 0:16
  - who serves as the senior vice president of
• 0:18
  - enterprise client solutions
• 0:20
  - at CHG Healthcare. Melinda, thank you so much
• 0:22
  - for taking the time to be with me
• 0:24
  - on the podcast today. Thank you, Jacob. It's
• 0:26
  - my pleasure.
• 0:28
  - Alright, Melinda. So let's start with the big
• 0:29
  - picture here, and I wanna hear about what
• 0:32
  - you're hearing across the industry.
• 0:34
  - You're you're here today with us to talk
• 0:36
  - a little bit about,
• 0:37
  - a bold claim and a blueprint that health
• 0:40
  - care organizations
• 0:41
  - need to build a workforce strategy to outlast
• 0:45
  - the physician shortage. So can can you start
• 0:47
  - us off today by talking a little bit
• 0:49
  - about
• 0:50
  - sharing what's going on in the health care
• 0:52
  - industry from your perspective? What would make that
• 0:55
  - a priority?
• 0:57
  - Yeah. Absolutely. And it's a loaded question. Right?
• 0:59
  - There's just so much happening within the health
• 1:01
  - care space today. Lots of change happening.
• 1:04
  - When I think about it, I've been describing
• 1:06
  - it as dynamic. You know, from every angle,
• 1:08
  - there's change at every facet of health care,
• 1:11
  - and health care is under intense pressures,
• 1:14
  - to really,
• 1:15
  - rapidly reinvent itself in order to, continue to
• 1:19
  - serve patients across our country.
• 1:21
  - When I think about it, there are really
• 1:22
  - three main challenges that every HCO is facing,
• 1:25
  - whether it's a workforce
• 1:28
  - gap that's creating an access gap for for
• 1:30
  - their patients,
• 1:32
  - operational inefficiency,
• 1:34
  - or, you know, the financial challenges that are
• 1:36
  - that organizations are facing in health care and
• 1:38
  - then across our country alike in terms of
• 1:40
  - inflation and and and wage increases,
• 1:44
  - to name a few. And the reality is
• 1:46
  - all these things are interwoven.
• 1:48
  - One affects the other, and then we really
• 1:50
  - can't even isolate them down to their their
• 1:52
  - simplest form because,
• 1:53
  - as you, deal with a workforce shortage or
• 1:57
  - gap or access to care,
• 1:59
  - that creates financial instability.
• 2:01
  - Financial instability
• 2:03
  - also can create operational challenges or inefficiencies as
• 2:06
  - you're not able to plug those gaps. So
• 2:07
  - all these things kind of compounding upon one
• 2:10
  - another.
• 2:11
  - If we unpack it a bit and we
• 2:12
  - look at the physician shortage,
• 2:14
  - which we would argue is already here,
• 2:17
  - the AAMC,
• 2:18
  - has been reporting about an 86,000
• 2:21
  - physician shortage over the next number of years.
• 2:24
  - We believe that's actually what we're facing into
• 2:26
  - today, and the HRSA,
• 2:28
  - the governing body,
• 2:30
  - overseeing all of this projects a 124,000
• 2:33
  - physicians short by 2027.
• 2:36
  - You know? Take that one step further and
• 2:39
  - half of physicians that are working today are
• 2:41
  - in the age category 55 and above. So
• 2:44
  - they have a short limited span on how
• 2:46
  - many years they may wanna continue to practice
• 2:48
  - or they may wanna start to wind down
• 2:50
  - how many hours they're spending practicing.
• 2:52
  - There are fewer active job seekers in the
• 2:54
  - physician market. And of those, they have more
• 2:57
  - options than they've ever had in terms of
• 2:59
  - where they might practice medicine, whether it's via
• 3:01
  - a health system,
• 3:02
  - virtually via telehealth,
• 3:05
  - or private practice, locum tenants, float pool options,
• 3:09
  - private equity based organizations,
• 3:11
  - just a lot more options than they've ever
• 3:13
  - had before.
• 3:15
  - With all of this in mind, open positions
• 3:17
  - are taking longer to fill.
• 3:19
  - If you look at the top 10 specialties
• 3:21
  - across the country,
• 3:22
  - the average median days to fill is a
• 3:25
  - hundred and sixty seven days.
• 3:27
  - The gross billable for those same services is
• 3:30
  - about $56,000.
• 3:32
  - And if you
• 3:33
  - look at that across the whole span of
• 3:35
  - those top 10 specialties,
• 3:37
  - something like $10,000,000
• 3:38
  - in gross billables are at risk just during
• 3:41
  - the hiring process alone in that gap in
• 3:43
  - time it takes to fill a position.
• 3:46
  - So you can see, you know, you can
• 3:47
  - definitely see how all these things together create
• 3:49
  - kind of this perfect storm of challenges
• 3:52
  - that health organizations
• 3:54
  - are facing into,
• 3:56
  - without a lot of answers in terms of
• 3:57
  - how to solve it.
• 3:59
  - Absolutely. So a lot of different factors driving
• 4:01
  - this this perfect storm, Melinda, and they compound
• 4:04
  - on one another. That that number you mentioned,
• 4:07
  - a 124,000,
• 4:08
  - in terms of the physician shortage by next
• 4:11
  - year.
• 4:12
  - Maybe you could, talk to us a little
• 4:14
  - bit about what does that look like on
• 4:15
  - the ground for patients?
• 4:18
  - We're often talking about these things,
• 4:20
  - from a from a business perspective, from the
• 4:22
  - health system perspective.
• 4:24
  - How does that all trickle down in terms
• 4:25
  - of what the patient experiences
• 4:27
  - on the ground across the country? And and
• 4:29
  - does it look different across different geographies, this
• 4:32
  - physician shortage?
• 4:33
  - Yeah. Absolutely. And right now, if you,
• 4:36
  - dive into the rural communities who are experiencing
• 4:40
  - the shortage, maybe more significantly than most,
• 4:44
  - it takes thirty one days on average to
• 4:46
  - see a primary care physician.
• 4:48
  - Compound that if you're trying to get into
• 4:49
  - a specialist that may or may not be
• 4:51
  - even available in your market or area, maybe
• 4:53
  - having to drive some distance for that specialist.
• 4:56
  - You know, it it's so it can be
• 4:58
  - very grim. In fact, in major metropolitan areas,
• 5:01
  - the numbers really don't look much better. So
• 5:03
  - you're waiting for care. Maybe you're putting care
• 5:05
  - off. And then if you think about the
• 5:07
  - compounding effect of not receiving care or delaying
• 5:10
  - care and what that can do,
• 5:12
  - to the the overall cost factor within the
• 5:14
  - health care system,
• 5:16
  - it can again start to compound upon the
• 5:19
  - problem.
• 5:20
  - Telehealth can be a awesome solution.
• 5:24
  - If you're able to build a program and
• 5:25
  - sustain a program, it can serve a lot
• 5:27
  - of immediate needs.
• 5:29
  - APPs and other types of physicians can come
• 5:32
  - in and help solve some of the gap.
• 5:34
  - But the reality is, is as a patient,
• 5:36
  - it's a it's a given line and wait
• 5:38
  - type of situation for many.
• 5:41
  - Absolutely. And so going back to what you
• 5:42
  - said, there is no real easy fix here.
• 5:44
  - You're framing this as as a blueprint
• 5:47
  - instead. And so can you dive into that
• 5:49
  - a little bit more in terms of why
• 5:51
  - you're framing it that way? And maybe the
• 5:53
  - biggest misconception you think the CFOs, CEOs out
• 5:56
  - there have about the physician shortage right now
• 5:59
  - and how it's impacting the country?
• 6:02
  - Yeah.
• 6:03
  - It's,
• 6:04
  - we go with the term blueprint because really
• 6:06
  - you do have to look at every
• 6:08
  - system individually,
• 6:09
  - take a look at their operating reality and
• 6:12
  - understand the challenges they face in their geography,
• 6:15
  - with their footprint, their makeup,
• 6:17
  - the patient base they have, the resources they
• 6:19
  - do have available, and those they don't have
• 6:21
  - available to them. And you have to solve
• 6:23
  - for that hospital system or that location uniquely.
• 6:27
  - And so no single lever can do that.
• 6:29
  - Right? There's no magic bullet. There's no formula
• 6:32
  - that can do that, and it's a compounding
• 6:33
  - effect.
• 6:34
  - So back to the workforce access and gaps,
• 6:37
  - operational efficiency, and financial sustainability
• 6:39
  - all hitting at once, you can't solve that
• 6:42
  - problem with one
• 6:43
  - one solution.
• 6:44
  - It's a series of things. Often, I talk
• 6:47
  - about the wedge theory. Right? You've got this
• 6:49
  - growing problem, and in order to solve that
• 6:51
  - problem, you gotta stack up different wedges of
• 6:54
  - solutions,
• 6:55
  - in order to start knocking the problem down.
• 6:57
  - There's often a common misconception that this is
• 6:59
  - just a hiring problem. Just hire more people.
• 7:02
  - And that actually for years was the case,
• 7:05
  - But increasingly, it's a deployment and design problem.
• 7:07
  - How you use the position in APs you
• 7:09
  - already have in addition to how you supplement
• 7:12
  - that workforce,
• 7:14
  - to cover gaps and unexpected coverage needs across
• 7:17
  - the board.
• 7:19
  - If you think about it, I'm gonna kind
• 7:21
  - of go back to this multiple times today.
• 7:23
  - That's not one thing that can help solve
• 7:25
  - the problem, but these things
• 7:28
  - working together,
• 7:30
  - to solve the problem. And I think a
• 7:31
  - lot of organizations have to sort of embrace
• 7:33
  - the idea that
• 7:35
  - it's a complex problem. It needs a complex
• 7:38
  - solution, and I'm willing to take the steps,
• 7:41
  - necessary in order to get to that complex,
• 7:43
  - complex compounding solution,
• 7:45
  - which includes attracting and retaining
• 7:48
  - the physicians you have and spending time on
• 7:51
  - what engages them and what burnout looks like
• 7:53
  - and how we help bring solutions in to
• 7:56
  - help maintain the positions in place that we
• 7:59
  - already have.
• 8:00
  - And that doesn't mean just throwing a a
• 8:02
  - stay bonus at them. Right? That's a fine
• 8:04
  - that adds to your financial challenges, but truly
• 8:07
  - understanding what's important to them and then building
• 8:09
  - a flexible workforce around them. Right? I wanna
• 8:12
  - go on a vacation as a physician. I
• 8:13
  - have a life event, and I need some
• 8:15
  - time off.
• 8:16
  - I've moved to a new,
• 8:18
  - opportunity in a new organization. I've left a
• 8:20
  - gap. How do I quickly and easily fill
• 8:23
  - those gaps,
• 8:24
  - in the most cost effective and clinical effective
• 8:27
  - way?
• 8:28
  - And in today's world, without a technology wrapper
• 8:32
  - for all of those things, it just becomes
• 8:34
  - burdensome and difficult to manage without the insights
• 8:36
  - you need to continue to move a plan
• 8:38
  - like that forward. So this type of compounding
• 8:41
  - approach really can help,
• 8:43
  - begin to solve the challenge. And, again, uniquely
• 8:45
  - at every facility or every hospital system given
• 8:48
  - everyone faces into different challenges.
• 8:51
  - I wanna go off something you just said
• 8:53
  - there, Melinda, of a physician, for example, saying
• 8:55
  - I wanna go on vacation because I think
• 8:57
  - that really speaks to something that your data
• 9:00
  - says or is showing that physician autonomy
• 9:04
  - now outranks
• 9:05
  - compensation as the top job priority. And so
• 9:08
  - what does that mean for health systems and
• 9:11
  - how they they should be competing for this
• 9:13
  - kind of talent right now, and and can
• 9:15
  - they offer,
• 9:17
  - a good competing offer to other other areas
• 9:20
  - of the health care system that maybe can
• 9:22
  - offer autonomy better to to a physician workforce?
• 9:26
  - Yeah. It's a it's a really important point.
• 9:28
  - Money is table stakes. Right? As a physician,
• 9:31
  - you go into medicine to make a difference,
• 9:33
  - and you also know that you're gonna be
• 9:35
  - well compensated for that.
• 9:37
  - And so there's a certain level of expectation
• 9:39
  - there. But as physicians continue to really think
• 9:41
  - about why they're practicing medicine with all the
• 9:43
  - things being thrown at them administratively and otherwise,
• 9:47
  - it gets a little,
• 9:49
  - off base for them. I get they start
• 9:51
  - to sort of
• 9:53
  - lose sight of why they entered health care.
• 9:56
  - And I was at a a large hospital
• 9:58
  - system not too long ago talking about burnout
• 10:00
  - and having a good conversation with the c
• 10:03
  - team within this organization.
• 10:05
  - And I said, what are you doing about
• 10:07
  - this challenge with burnout? And their answer to
• 10:09
  - that was a Zen Room for their physicians
• 10:11
  - to go in and decompress, which is a
• 10:13
  - nice idea.
• 10:14
  - But it really is just insignificant,
• 10:17
  - for the surmountable challenge of burnout. Right? That
• 10:20
  - you get to go relax for a few
• 10:21
  - hours. By the way, they built the Zen
• 10:23
  - Room next to the C Suite,
• 10:25
  - and no one would go in it
• 10:27
  - because they were too afraid of, you know,
• 10:29
  - taking,
• 10:30
  - taking time down with the CEO watching them.
• 10:33
  - But if money is table stakes,
• 10:35
  - and not a differentiate
• 10:37
  - differentiator anymore, autonomy rises to the top of
• 10:40
  - the list. This includes clinical authority.
• 10:43
  - For an example, I wanna be able to
• 10:45
  - make decisions that are best for my patients.
• 10:47
  - I don't wanna always be told what decisions
• 10:50
  - I need to make
• 10:51
  - or schedule autonomy.
• 10:53
  - I wanna have choice over how, when, and
• 10:55
  - where I work.
• 10:56
  - And strategic authority, can I have some input
• 10:59
  - into the organizational
• 11:00
  - decisions that are impacting my work every day?
• 11:03
  - That can go further than,
• 11:05
  - a $30,000
• 11:06
  - stay,
• 11:07
  - bonus or even an increase that's in in
• 11:10
  - some scenarios. So really leaning into that. And
• 11:14
  - I think it's also important to note that
• 11:16
  - job
• 11:16
  - satisfaction isn't necessarily linked to their behavior.
• 11:20
  - We did a recent, physician settlement survey, and
• 11:23
  - seventy four percent of physicians
• 11:25
  - indicated they're satisfied with their employer,
• 11:28
  - yet their NPS
• 11:30
  - or their net promoter score is a negative
• 11:32
  - eight. What this means is that they wouldn't
• 11:34
  - recommend others to their organization
• 11:36
  - and that they are at risk for leaving,
• 11:38
  - yet they claim to be 74%
• 11:40
  - satisfied.
• 11:41
  - So there's an undertone
• 11:43
  - and a willingness to be open to different
• 11:46
  - opportunities,
• 11:47
  - if the right opportunity is presented that produces
• 11:49
  - more autonomy or flexibility,
• 11:51
  - not just more compensation.
• 11:53
  - And last, there's a strong financial correlation between
• 11:56
  - physician engagement
• 11:58
  - and organizational
• 11:59
  - performance.
• 12:00
  - Physicians who are fully engaged are 26%
• 12:03
  - more productive than their disengaged counterparts,
• 12:07
  - and they bring in almost a $500,000
• 12:09
  - more, 460
• 12:10
  - k on average, in additional patient revenue per
• 12:13
  - physician per
• 12:14
  - year. So it's a pretty strong case for,
• 12:17
  - you know, what physicians want today might not
• 12:20
  - look exactly like it looked last year or
• 12:22
  - even five years ago, and it has a
• 12:24
  - lot more to do with,
• 12:26
  - them having input
• 12:27
  - and ability to have some autonomy and flexibility
• 12:31
  - over over their situation.
• 12:32
  - Yeah. No. Absolutely. So they they want choice.
• 12:35
  - They want autonomy. And I I also I
• 12:37
  - wanted to make sure we discussed,
• 12:39
  - the use of float pools today as well,
• 12:41
  - Melinda, because I know they've been used for
• 12:43
  - a long time in nursing staffing to offer
• 12:46
  - flexibility,
• 12:47
  - while still getting coverage needs met at at
• 12:50
  - the health systems. So I wonder, you know,
• 12:52
  - you you've you've just mentioned you've worked for
• 12:54
  - for health systems.
• 12:57
  - Based off of what you're seeing across the
• 12:58
  - industry,
• 12:59
  - what's the appetite for that among physicians, and
• 13:03
  - how should systems build the infrastructure to support
• 13:06
  - something like that?
• 13:07
  - Yeah. Appetite's really high. In our most recent
• 13:10
  - survey data, we,
• 13:12
  - saw that 57%
• 13:14
  - of employed physicians expressed interest in working in
• 13:17
  - a float pool,
• 13:18
  - and the top reason why they're interested in
• 13:21
  - that is for some flexibility
• 13:23
  - even above additional pay.
• 13:26
  - So having an appetite's first. Right? Okay. Good.
• 13:29
  - I'm willing to do it. But the infrastructure
• 13:31
  - does need to be in place.
• 13:33
  - Imagine a tiered system for when you have
• 13:35
  - gaps in coverage.
• 13:37
  - You first obviously, everyone wants to employ a
• 13:40
  - staff physician or a permanent physician,
• 13:43
  - as a first option. When that isn't available
• 13:45
  - to you, if you can first tap into
• 13:47
  - your internal flow pool, your own physicians who
• 13:50
  - are already credentialed,
• 13:51
  - privileged, and ready to work within your organization,
• 13:53
  - they understand your expectations, your needs, your culture.
• 13:56
  - If you can tap into them first, wouldn't
• 13:57
  - that be ideal? But in order to do
• 13:59
  - that, you really do have to set up
• 14:00
  - a good system where everyone can indicate availability,
• 14:03
  - match that against open gaps, etcetera.
• 14:06
  - And then if you could say, well, there's
• 14:08
  - not an internal,
• 14:10
  - physician who can float for us. Maybe I
• 14:12
  - could use virtual care as telehealth an option
• 14:14
  - in this scenario. And then in that case,
• 14:16
  - I don't need to
• 14:18
  - recruit,
• 14:19
  - even a temporary
• 14:22
  - slot for my physician pool. I can utilize
• 14:26
  - a network of telehealth physicians.
• 14:28
  - And
• 14:29
  - that may not be an option either. Maybe
• 14:31
  - that particular service isn't available in the telehealth
• 14:33
  - space space or doesn't make sense for that
• 14:35
  - service.
• 14:36
  - An APP can be a great additional option.
• 14:39
  - And at the end of the day, when
• 14:40
  - all of those options have failed,
• 14:42
  - physician locums becomes really prime.
• 14:45
  - Sometimes physician locums aren't utilized at the extent
• 14:48
  - they could be because of the cost of
• 14:50
  - bringing in a position,
• 14:53
  - temporarily.
• 14:54
  - But when you're using them strategically
• 14:56
  - and you're starting and going through your your
• 14:59
  - pool and you've
• 15:00
  - exhausted your options, locums often is the right
• 15:03
  - answer. And as long as managed strategically,
• 15:07
  - can have a high ROI as well.
• 15:09
  - Understood. So there is an appetite there, can
• 15:12
  - have a high high ROI.
• 15:14
  - I'd be also remiss, Melinda, if I didn't,
• 15:16
  - shift the conversation a bit and ask you
• 15:18
  - about the AI piece of all of this
• 15:21
  - because, obviously, as you know, it's it's showing
• 15:23
  - up now in recruiting, credentialing,
• 15:25
  - scheduling.
• 15:26
  - So
• 15:27
  - you're talking about ROI. Where are you seeing
• 15:30
  - the most immediate provable ROI in the space
• 15:33
  - versus where it's still high. There's there's more
• 15:35
  - promise than proof. We're hearing the c suites,
• 15:39
  - really talk about that a lot more today
• 15:41
  - in terms of the share investments being made
• 15:43
  - in this space versus,
• 15:44
  - the ROI that's being proven. So can you
• 15:47
  - talk to us a little bit about,
• 15:48
  - to us about that side of this?
• 15:50
  - Yeah. Absolutely. From the recruitment perspective, you know,
• 15:53
  - obviously, CHG Healthcare is the largest physician workforce
• 15:57
  - solutions company in the country, and we do
• 15:59
  - a ton of physician recruitment and placement, about
• 16:02
  - 10, 11,000 positions annually.
• 16:05
  - And we're utilizing
• 16:07
  - AI to help improve and expedite our credentialing
• 16:10
  - process dramatically as well as the screening and
• 16:13
  - matching process.
• 16:14
  - How do we bring the right candidates in
• 16:17
  - quickly? How do we match them up with
• 16:19
  - the right job opportunities quickly,
• 16:21
  - to bring a quality provider through for our
• 16:23
  - customer and that patient on the other end?
• 16:26
  - We've been able to
• 16:27
  - reduce candidate matching from hours to minutes and
• 16:31
  - from credentialing cycles that last sometimes up to
• 16:34
  - months to to weeks or days. So it
• 16:36
  - can have a really profound impact on speed,
• 16:40
  - quality,
• 16:41
  - and accuracy.
• 16:43
  - We also
• 16:44
  - see, you know, a lot of use cases,
• 16:47
  - where AI won't solve the physician shortage.
• 16:50
  - It won't replace APPs or physicians, but it
• 16:53
  - will, and is
• 16:55
  - helping to reduce workload and burnout and taking
• 16:58
  - some of that administrative burden off of physicians
• 17:00
  - so that they can see more patients and
• 17:03
  - maybe even spend more time with patients.
• 17:05
  - And that helps with their satisfaction
• 17:07
  - and burnout in their role as well. So
• 17:10
  - all good things on the AI front, maybe
• 17:12
  - not, to help completely close the gap of
• 17:15
  - the physician shortage, but certainly having massive positive
• 17:18
  - impact,
• 17:19
  - across the board.
• 17:21
  - It is interesting, though, when you look at
• 17:22
  - it where administrators
• 17:24
  - see, you know, really, really high high use
• 17:26
  - cases and, levels of optimism in terms of
• 17:29
  - how this is gonna help, where physicians
• 17:31
  - are a little more skeptical, although they do
• 17:33
  - think it is definitely helpful and here to
• 17:35
  - stay.
• 17:36
  - And I think the last, you know, the
• 17:37
  - last thing is just getting clear visibility
• 17:40
  - into data
• 17:42
  - through AI.
• 17:44
  - This has been a long standing challenge for
• 17:46
  - organizations, and we're seeing rapid deployment of new
• 17:48
  - tools and technologies
• 17:50
  - to help manage spend utilization and credentialing
• 17:53
  - status alike. So
• 17:55
  - lots of new and emerging use cases that
• 17:57
  - I think we'll continue to see.
• 17:59
  - Yeah. No. Absolutely. It's really interesting. And I
• 18:01
  - know we could do an entire podcast today
• 18:03
  - just on on that topic. But in the
• 18:05
  - interest of time, I do wanna make sure,
• 18:08
  - to to ask you to,
• 18:10
  - give some last minute bits of advice to
• 18:13
  - to the c CFO or the CEO listening
• 18:15
  - today. And I think going back to what
• 18:17
  - you were saying earlier, Melinda, about,
• 18:20
  - as an example of putting the Zen Room
• 18:23
  - next to the c suite and how sometimes,
• 18:26
  - there can be
• 18:28
  - surface level solutions to to the problems that
• 18:30
  - we're talking about today. If you were talking
• 18:33
  - to that to that c suite listening in
• 18:35
  - right now and they could act on only
• 18:37
  - one thing from this conversation in the next
• 18:39
  - quarter to to really
• 18:41
  - make change in terms of what we've been
• 18:43
  - talking about today.
• 18:44
  - What would you tell them to prioritize?
• 18:47
  - Yeah. I I would start with having a
• 18:49
  - deliberate focus on how do you shore up
• 18:52
  - the health of your physician and your AP
• 18:54
  - workforce
• 18:55
  - through a combination of strategic actions
• 18:58
  - that you can take? And there is no
• 19:00
  - one single thing, but a set of things
• 19:02
  - to ensure that your current physician population is
• 19:06
  - is secure, engaged, and it's going to, you
• 19:09
  - know, maintain employment with you for a long
• 19:11
  - time. That's the most important thing anyone can
• 19:13
  - do. And there's little little activity in this
• 19:16
  - area, very little focus or deliberate focus in
• 19:18
  - this area. So that would be a really
• 19:20
  - easy thing for anyone to do. And then
• 19:22
  - you can shore that permanent population up with
• 19:25
  - a routine of different ways you tap into
• 19:27
  - your vendor partners, whether that's through telehealth or
• 19:30
  - an AP or a locum provider to help
• 19:32
  - you provide a flexible,
• 19:35
  - solution for when your physician workforce either can't
• 19:38
  - be delivered timely or or,
• 19:40
  - needs a break.
• 19:42
  - And then, you know, leveraging technology to make
• 19:45
  - it easier for everyone involved. I mean, these
• 19:46
  - are the really the three things that any
• 19:48
  - organization
• 19:49
  - can do if
• 19:51
  - they deliberately focus on it, and a good
• 19:53
  - partner can absolutely be game changing on this
• 19:55
  - front.
• 19:56
  - Wonderful. Laura, I think that's a really great
• 19:59
  - place to leave things. So, Melinda, I wanna
• 20:01
  - thank you for taking the time to chat
• 20:03
  - with us and for sharing your insights with
• 20:05
  - our listeners. We really appreciate you doing so.
• 20:08
  - Yeah. It was my pleasure.
• 20:10
  - And to our listeners, we'd also like to
• 20:12
  - thank our podcast sponsor, CHG Healthcare. You can
• 20:15
  - tune in to more podcasts from Becker's Healthcare
• 20:18
  - by visiting our podcast page at beckershospitalreview.com.