Latest / Adventures in Adversity: an inspirational podcast / Ep. 57: 19-year old Wilson Munsterman on resilience, identity, & his book, "Marked by Adoption"

Transcript

Ep. 57: 19-year old Wilson Munsterman on resilience, identity, & his book, "Marked by Adoption" · Adventures in Adversity: an inspirational podcast

0:00
Hello and welcome back. I am so thrilled to be back in
0:05
the podcast chair with an awesome person who I just met
0:09
and I will get to him in about 30 seconds.
0:12
For those of you who are, what is this podcast Adventures and
0:15
Adversity? It is a podcast where we bring
0:18
in real people who tell true stories and really just inspire
0:23
us through how they got through adversity.
0:25
And ultimately, I hope that you walk away from these episodes,
0:30
you know, with a real inspiration of how to take any
0:33
situation in your life and and turn it into something better,
0:37
right, despite what you're going through.
0:39
So I really am so, so thrilled to introduce my next guest.
0:44
He is an author and he is mirrored the age of 19 already
0:49
just doing amazing things, writing books, publishing
0:52
websites. Wilson, really nice to meet you.
0:56
You just published marked by adoption.com as well as a book.
1:02
Yeah, I appreciate it. It's an honor to be here and
1:05
that's super cool. You can follow marked by
1:07
adoption.com and Step to Date with their.
1:10
Congratulations, Launch day is very exciting.
1:13
That's what this episode is going to be about, as well as
1:16
just taking us through your journey, your adversity, and it
1:21
looks you are on a mission to help others through this website
1:24
and through your book. Yeah, I mean, that's what it's
1:27
all said and done. That's the goal.
1:28
That's what I want to do. You know, at 19 years old, you
1:31
get the question, you know, what do you want to do in the future?
1:33
You know, what do you want to be?
1:35
I want to help people, plain and simple.
1:37
You know, no matter how I don't, you know, I don't care what job
1:41
I end up with. It's.
1:42
I want to help people. And that's.
1:44
Yeah. Well, I and I know a little bit
1:48
of your story and we're going to get into it.
1:50
That's that's where I think is going to be a, a very
1:54
inspirational conversation because I think you have a very
1:57
unique perspective that you know other adoptees who are.
2:02
I've befriended a few adoptees since interviewing Jim a couple
2:05
last episode. And I'm just so grateful to have
2:10
be connected with people like you and people especially who
2:15
are now taking your adversity and actually turning it into a
2:19
vehicle to help other people. It's really cool.
2:24
No, it's it's easy to help ourselves, but that question is,
2:27
you know, then how do we help others?
2:28
And so that's my goal is and I'm.
2:31
Fine, so you have. So we've got the website and by
2:35
the way, I'm going to put all of the links to your book to
2:39
markedbyadoption.com to your Instagram or they can follow you
2:44
because everybody will be checking it out.
2:46
And I'm looking at the cover on your website marked by adoption,
2:51
Wilson Munsterman. And then below it says 10 key
2:54
insights from an adoptee's perspective.
2:58
So this is available on the website for purchase and I would
3:02
love to in this, you know, in the next hour just really dive
3:08
into, you know, who you are, what inspired you to write this
3:13
book, you know, an insight into your journey and then what
3:17
people can expect if they, you know, purchase this book and
3:20
what you've learned through all of this.
3:22
So I'm going to stop talking now, which is very hard for me.
3:26
And Wilson, take me through your journey.
3:29
Tell me a little bit about yourself and we'll just kind of
3:32
go from there if that works for you.
3:33
Yeah, absolutely. So I guess my journey, let's
3:36
start it from the beginning. I was born in China.
3:39
I was left on a doorstep, no forms of identification, just
3:43
abandoned their ads rain in the paper saying, hey, we have a
3:47
healthy baby boy here. We have a, you know, a young
3:50
male here. Nobody stepped forward after
3:54
that. I was initially checked out by
3:55
the hospital and then sent to the orphan system in China.
3:58
During this time, there are a little, you know, sketchy Gray
4:01
area things going on in there. But I do know then at 10 months,
4:04
I was adopted by my parents here in America.
4:07
Now, what's really interesting about that story is when you
4:10
break it down, so I was born in 2006.
4:14
The one child policy was going on in 2006 where families were
4:18
only allowed one child. Now, when you collab that with
4:22
the culture of China during this time was where you wanted a
4:25
healthy male. The fact that I'm where I'm at
4:29
in America right now, halfway across the world, and I'm a
4:31
healthy male. It shouldn't be The fact that
4:35
somebody found me on that doorstep, The fact that nobody
4:38
stepped forward. Anybody could have stepped
4:40
forward. The fact that I made it out
4:42
through the orphanage systems when they were going through
4:44
malpractices and shutting down. The fact that I was essentially
4:50
brought here to my parents. And what I mean by that is in
4:53
most international adoptions, the parents know they're going
4:57
overseas. They go and visit the country.
5:01
That didn't happen with my parents.
5:02
They got a call saying, hey, we have a baby boy here.
5:05
Within like 72 hours, I think was at the timeline boom.
5:09
I was in their home, so they had no idea they're going to go
5:11
international. And so just when you really
5:14
think of all those kind of stars that had to align, I know that I
5:18
shouldn't be here and you know, I should be dead.
5:21
And it's something that I've come to terms with.
5:23
You know, I shouldn't have the opportunities I do to wake up.
5:26
I shouldn't have the gifts I have.
5:28
I shouldn't have the the blessings I've been given.
5:31
And so it's really when you kind of realized that you almost you
5:36
cheated death is when you can really say, OK, now I'm going to
5:40
start taking every day, not for granted.
5:43
I'm going to start trying to give back more.
5:45
And so it was really just in that mindset I had of my God,
5:49
you know, I could have died. I shouldn't be here.
5:52
That's when I realized that, Oh my God, you know, my, my
5:55
adoption's one in a million. And that with the opportunities
5:59
I have here in America, I'm not going to let him go to waste.
6:02
Wow. That is a very, it's a very
6:07
inspiring way to turn a traumatic start.
6:10
Right. And I know you had mentioned I
6:12
did a little research on your website before that.
6:16
You don't remember much of that. Your first memories are probably
6:20
later. So you don't really know what
6:22
happened. But you ended up in the arms of
6:25
an American family when you were ten months old.
6:29
Wow. Yeah.
6:30
And what, what's really, really cool is, well, not I, I don't
6:34
want to say cool, but it is to me, is that, you know, I don't
6:37
have the memories of it, but I have a reminder.
6:39
So my book, you know I have a copy a little bit, right?
6:44
There you go. Let's see, plug it, put, pull it
6:46
up a little bit. We got to get a little.
6:48
There we go. And so.
6:50
Beautiful. The reason why it's called
6:52
marked by adoption is because people, you know, who are
6:55
adopted kind of get marked by adoption in the sense of they
7:00
had to play the cards that they weren't dealt like they were
7:02
dealt. You know, you didn't, you
7:04
couldn't change it really. You had no say.
7:07
She had to play those cards. And so they were marked on the
7:09
spirit. For me, marked by adoption has
7:12
an entirely different meaning because I have a brand on my
7:14
left side and it's been checked out by doctors, by
7:18
dermatologists. It's not of natural causes.
7:21
So they believe that someone branded me as a child, either in
7:25
the orphanage systems or whatever, but it has Chinese
7:30
like lettering on my sock. And so I physically was marked
7:34
by my adoption and that growing up, you know, even though I
7:38
didn't have the memories up here for it, I still had the body
7:43
responses to it. I still had the reminders.
7:46
And that, you know, for the first half of my life, it really
7:50
put me down. It was not something I wanted to
7:52
talk about. I attributed my worth to my
7:55
birth parents, saying that if I wasn't good enough for them,
7:57
would I be good enough for anybody?
8:00
And, and it's really hard growing up like that, that I
8:03
could have cured cancer. I could have found a way to turn
8:06
water into fuel. I could have done anything you
8:09
could have thought of wouldn't have been enough because I
8:11
wasn't enough for them. You see these stories of parents
8:15
and you know, the first thing to have mothers do after they're
8:18
giving birth to skin to skin contact, create that bond
8:21
instantly. And the stories of I looked into
8:25
my child's eyes and my heart, you know, blew up.
8:29
I knew I was going to do anything for them.
8:31
Well, then I, I internalized those.
8:33
I wondered, well, why didn't my birth mother see that?
8:36
What was so wrong about me? Was it the way I looked?
8:39
Was it, you know, was it something I did even as a baby?
8:43
So it was really internalizing not being kept that really just
8:49
kind of had the reins in my brain going up.
8:53
And so it was just having that constant reminder if it didn't
8:58
put me in the best, you know, place at times.
9:01
But I would say that, you know, around high school, this is when
9:07
kind of my mindset shifted. I realized that, OK, I can't
9:12
change what happened. I can't change me being adopted.
9:16
Adoption isn't going away from me or for the millions of other
9:20
kids that are adopted. So I might as well figure out
9:23
how to not let this thing define me.
9:27
You know, our time's limited. It's we spend a third of our
9:32
life sleeping, a third of our life doing other stuff.
9:36
And so I realized that, OK, well, if I can't change this one
9:39
event, I'm going to change the way I look at it.
9:42
Hence realizing that I shouldn't be here.
9:46
Hence realizing that whenever I had doubts, I had friends.
9:49
And so it was really just about matter of fact of how do I flip
9:53
my mindset and looking at this thing as an opportunity that's a
9:57
negative thing. And you know, so every time, you
10:00
know, circle back to the book, every time I see that marked by
10:02
adoption, I realize that I am marked by my adoption.
10:05
But the way I defined it, but the way I, you know, kind of see
10:08
it, it's up to me. It's not by anyone else's means.
10:11
What if it you can't? You can.
10:13
It's all mindset, right perspective.
10:16
And I again, easier for me to say when I'm not an adoptee, but
10:19
what I admire about you is that at such a young age to come to
10:24
that realization because that, that that shift will shift the
10:28
rest of your life. You know, do you remember if
10:32
that insight or that shift? Was it a Eureka moment?
10:37
Was it a gradual shift? Was it after an experience or do
10:41
you think, how did you come to that?
10:43
If there's an adoptee listening here and, and they're struggling
10:47
with, you know, justified confusion, resentment, anger,
10:50
depression, anxiety because of it, how do you start to get
10:54
through that? Well, for me, I would like to
10:57
say that it was, it wasn't, it wasn't a straight path.
11:00
You know, there's not things that I can tell people to say,
11:02
oh, go do a, the result, you know, go do B, the C yeah, me,
11:07
it was always the support I had. And I have a big family growing
11:10
up, but I had friends. And the best thing about friends
11:13
is that they choose you the same way you choose them.
11:17
I don't know about you, but I don't.
11:18
I'm not friends with people I don't like.
11:20
You don't. You are selected for as your.
11:24
Friend, anyone's friends with people they don't like.
11:25
So the fact that every time I had doubts, I was able to go to
11:30
my friends and remember that this particular friend, I was
11:35
telling probably that I'm not worth anything talk, maybe for
11:38
the millionth time, I was saying, sorry, they kind of snap
11:41
at me and go, hey, we choose to be here for you.
11:43
And that really stuck. That really stuck with me
11:47
because it was, you know, they're right.
11:50
You know, it's the similarities alike of why people come
11:52
together, but it's how they learn to love the differences
11:55
for why they stay as the fact that these people around me
11:59
chose to, you know, love me and want to be here with me and help
12:03
me. I mean, if I didn't owe it to
12:06
myself to help, you know, change my mindset and better my life, I
12:09
owed it to them. And so it was really just a
12:12
combination of the support, the fact that I read over the files
12:17
in my head maybe a million times and then said, you know what?
12:21
I'm done, that this thing define me.
12:22
I'm getting bored of it. I can't, I'm not doing it
12:25
anymore. And then I took control of my
12:27
own story. That's so, so admirable and
12:32
cool. And, and every guest that comes
12:35
on here, I'm always interested in I there's always a pivot
12:39
moment of the trial. And then whether it's one moment
12:44
or overtime, something starts to shift.
12:48
And then you you start to detach from that old story.
12:52
Like what story do I want to rewrite?
12:54
You know, and I think I don't want to gloss over the fact
12:58
that, you know, I interviewed Jim, I'm interviewing you.
13:01
You're the second person that I've interviewed as an adoptee
13:05
and I have interviewed my friend Sabine who started fostering
13:09
wishes organization to help foster kids in the Bay Area.
13:13
And I'm just so glad that we are talking more about this because
13:18
I don't think you don't know when you're walking around who
13:21
is an adoptee who is in a foster home right now.
13:25
We we never know, right? And, and I just commend you for
13:30
being a voice for the adopted community and then writing about
13:33
it so that, like you said, people outside the adopted
13:36
community have a better understanding, right?
13:39
When your peer or your neighbor or you find out, oh, you're
13:42
adopted and then they start talking.
13:44
OK, wait, I heard a podcast about this.
13:47
There's more to it. Like there's, you know what I
13:49
mean, understanding people, right?
13:53
So I just think it's cool that you are that one of those voices
13:57
for your community at such a young age.
14:00
Yeah, I guess I'm trying to be, you know, it's.
14:02
You are. You already are.
14:06
No, it's it, you know, I I get that a lot of you know, you were
14:12
a voice for the adopted community, but I think, you
14:15
know, for me, it's I just want to be a voice for anybody, you
14:18
know, adopt the special place in my heart.
14:21
But I don't believe story only speaks to adoptees.
14:24
I think people all over the world of all color creeds
14:28
orientations can relate to feeling not that they weren't
14:31
enough. And that when you find when you
14:34
find you know your worth and the things that you do, you are
14:38
where you put your time and energy.
14:40
And are you going to put your time and energy into talking
14:43
bad, you know, not feeling like enough, kind of not doing
14:46
anything to try and pull yourself out of that hole?
14:48
No, that's probably where you're going to find your work.
14:50
But if you start reaching out, asking for help playing, you
14:53
know, picking up a new hobby, joining a club, just doing
14:57
something to help kind of pull you out, that's where then
15:00
you're going to find your work. And I think my story speaks to
15:03
bigger crowd and to really help everybody, You know, I don't
15:08
want to try and put a box of the people I can help.
15:10
I want to help everybody. That is, is a very, very good
15:13
point and I think it is adversity.
15:16
That's the title of podcast adventures in adversity, right?
15:19
It comes in so many forms. And then you hear someone's
15:22
story, right? It might be of a different
15:25
situation, but you relate to that decision or that sense of
15:30
really comes down to and tell me if you agree the grit and
15:33
determination of fighting those thoughts.
15:36
You know of those. I'm not enough thoughts.
15:39
Whether you're in a marriage, a job where you're trying to get
15:43
validation from boss or a friend that you're having friendship
15:47
issues with, you're like, OK, you're always we're always
15:51
striving to be right. More, more, more checksum box.
15:56
If you don't mind me asking, and I'm sure you don't.
15:58
I noticed you had Bible verse on your profile and I too AM really
16:05
new in my sort of spiritual journey kind of coming back to
16:08
God raised Catholic, but sort of baby Christian.
16:11
Oh my gosh, learning I'm like what is happening in the best
16:15
way. I, I actually looked it up to
16:19
see how I wonder what verse that is and I didn't memorize it, but
16:23
it is related to do you remember which one it is?
16:26
Do you mind repeating it? I didn't want to put you on the
16:28
spot, but if. You do 13 seven.
16:30
It's. You do not understand now, but
16:32
you will later. And it's that whole kind of
16:36
spiel of I didn't understand why I had to go through the things I
16:39
did. I didn't understand why I've
16:41
had, you know, and setbacks I've had.
16:45
But then I realized that, you know, it's not my story.
16:48
It's my story to write, but it's not my journey to follow.
16:52
And that, you know, I believe God allows free will.
16:55
He wants you to choose Him and that he knows at the end of the
17:00
day, kind of because he's above time and space, He knows the the
17:03
choices you're going to make. And so I just have faith that,
17:06
you know, hopefully with prayer and being able to come sit back
17:11
and gather my thoughts, I make the right choices.
17:13
But I mean, that Bible verse has been in my life because it
17:16
really helped me through my adoption.
17:17
I didn't understand why I was adopted.
17:19
I don't understand why I was in America.
17:22
I'm thinking there are 7 continents.
17:25
There are hundreds of other countries.
17:27
Why here, why in Omaha, NE? What, what the heck?
17:32
And you know, I had to realize that I don't understand it now
17:36
and I won't have those answers, but later I will.
17:38
And you know, it's all kind of coming up.
17:41
All the ducks have aligned, I guess, to really show me where
17:44
my calling is now with the book and the outreach in the podcast
17:48
because I didn't understand it, why I was adopted.
17:51
Now I do. It's because my calling was is
17:53
to help people. And so that verse just really
17:56
just is near and dear to my heart.
17:59
I really like that verse and I read more about it that in the
18:03
context. Again, correct me if I'm wrong
18:05
because I'm learning. I'm actually on like beginner's
18:08
Bible study and we're all yay, we learn.
18:11
This is basic. We just make fun of each other.
18:13
Did you know that? I didn't know that that's basic
18:15
stuff. Oh, yay, we learned it, you
18:17
know, but anyway, I love the verse and I think the context is
18:22
he was Jesus was washing the feet of his disciples right
18:26
before before he was, you know, crucified.
18:30
But they're like, what are you doing right?
18:32
Like you won't understand it. There's just all these things in
18:35
life where you're you're like my last podcast guest, same thing,
18:40
just talking about this. You're never going to really
18:42
understand. You do have a choice and you are
18:45
guided, but I think it's important that you do have free
18:49
will and that you are a powerful person.
18:52
You have you are not your circumstance, you know.
18:58
So talk to me about in your book and just without giving too much
19:02
away to our readers, because I'm going to get a copy of this and
19:05
read it on. I'm going to your homepage here.
19:07
I'm clicking around on your website. 10 key insights from an
19:11
adoptees perspective. Can you talk to me about a few
19:16
of those insights or any that come to mind that you want to
19:20
give us a little peek into that someone who might who's going
19:24
through a hard time might be listening to this, having lost a
19:29
job, going through grief, self esteem, whatever it is, right?
19:34
Everyone's got stuff. Is there any insights that might
19:37
speak to someone right now, or any that you want to highlight
19:40
from your? Book.
19:40
Yeah, I mean, the book, what I wanted is it stemmed from a
19:44
conversation with an adoptive mother.
19:46
Her daughter was about 9 or 10 at the time, starting to have a
19:49
more conceptualized adult questions.
19:51
Why did it happen? What was going on, you know, can
19:55
I meet them? And this mother had a background
19:57
in adoption. And she said something like, I
20:01
don't know what I would have done or what I would do if I
20:03
didn't, you know, have this background.
20:06
And I said, you know what? That's true.
20:09
So many other adoptive families don't have that background.
20:13
Let's provide it for them. And so it was OK, then how can I
20:18
do it? Podcast website no book.
20:22
It was just kind of filtering out all my ideas and putting the
20:27
top 10 insights that I thought people could know and understand
20:31
about adoption from my perspective in my prologue, it's
20:36
I position myself. I say I'm not a therapist, not a
20:39
medical person, no form of psychology, not an expert.
20:43
I'm just a 19 year old kid with his thoughts and ideas.
20:47
And it's 10 to 15 pages per chapter because our brains like
20:50
fast who like really accomplished.
20:52
And plus it's, you know, it's a quick read.
20:55
I wanted to be an afternoon cup of coffee read.
20:58
I said a little bit, you know, open how you think.
21:02
I guess the couple chapters that really stuck out to me was that
21:05
I'd adoptees and you're not just adoptees, but people have
21:07
identity issues. You know, you don't know who you
21:10
are really. It's you're still learning.
21:13
I'm learning today. I'm confident in who I am.
21:15
You know I love Elvis Presley like you know I love it.
21:21
I love that you love Elvis. It's wonderful.
21:24
I got a poster of him in my dorm right now, but.
21:27
OK, so when I do reels of this, we're going to have to have some
21:29
Elvis music, OK, I. Think we can do that?
21:32
OK, perfect. Yeah, it's the.
21:34
Identity challenges and that it's hard to find yourself when
21:38
you're adopted because the kind of filler that you had of oh,
21:41
this is rug in my eyes. Oh, this is where I get my nose.
21:45
Oh, that's where I get my height.
21:47
This is my ability. Well, I didn't have that.
21:50
And so, you know, not he knows a lot of adoptees don't.
21:53
And so it's how do they find themselves?
21:55
And then I, you know, to me it was, I'm going to just kind of
21:59
figure them out for who I am and as I live my life.
22:03
So it was just, you know what, you know how cool it is to paint
22:06
your own identity. People kind of, you know, don't
22:08
realize how cool it is, but you get to be the artist of your own
22:11
canvas. No one else gets to paint it for
22:14
you. You can put whatever, whenever,
22:17
however you want and that's you. And there's only one of one, you
22:21
know, full dive into it. And so that was super cool about
22:24
it. And you know, in the in the in
22:26
there, I talk about how adoptees do kind of have identity
22:29
challenges. But at the end of the day, just
22:31
figure out what makes you you, what you love.
22:33
If you don't like something, that's still part of you.
22:35
Like I hate Brussels sprouts. That's my identity, you know,
22:39
that's part of my identity, but just just have fun with it.
22:42
I guess another chapter I would love is that I always thought,
22:45
you know, I, I was raised by Caucasian parents.
22:50
And so it was always the fact of, OK, how do we, you know,
22:52
blend his biological heritage and culture with our heritage
22:57
and culture. And, you know, it's, it's really
23:00
hard to raise somebody outside of the culture that you were
23:02
raised. Sure.
23:04
It it's not just a simple fact of oh, well, you know, the
23:07
parents adopted a child of a different race.
23:09
They need to immerse himself. That is true.
23:11
But you know how hard that is. I know if I had a baby brought
23:15
to me from the Netherlands right now, I cannot raise it in
23:17
Netherland culture. I'm going to raise the best that
23:19
I see fit and using my background.
23:22
But, you know, there's just things like that.
23:25
And I guess one of my best takeaways that I wrote in the
23:29
book is that I never felt like I had to choose.
23:32
You know, it was, it was part of, again, my identity and who I
23:36
was. I I was lighting up fireworks
23:39
for the 4th of July and for Chinese New Year, you know it
23:43
was. Just actually kind of cool,
23:45
right? It's more to celebrate like it's
23:47
all how you look at it, right? Oh, yeah, absolutely.
23:49
So like, you know, you wouldn't, you know, when you find
23:51
something, you know how people like find out things are made by
23:54
people and they're like, oh, the Irish did this, you know,
23:56
that's, that's me. Well, then I was able to kind of
23:58
double down and be like, oh, Chinese people made that.
24:01
You're welcome. Yeah, You're like, like, oh,
24:05
you're also welcome for that too.
24:06
I was able to double down. And so that was also, you know,
24:09
those. That was really cool.
24:11
And I guess just yeah, the books to our read and it's just got
24:17
insights. And it's not for only adoption
24:20
parents. It's it's you know, in the
24:23
website I go, who's it for? You know, there's a little tab
24:26
and in it it says this book is for everybody.
24:29
Find out down below. It's for birth mothers to
24:31
understand that. I see, I know, I hear you.
24:35
How courageous your decision was to place yourself for adoption.
24:38
And it's amazing, you know, I, some of the birth mothers I know
24:41
are some of the strongest people.
24:44
It's, it's to show them that adoption isn't all bad.
24:48
There's challenges. But I'm living proof that the
24:51
adoption can be a great story. So it's for them to realize,
24:55
have faith in the decision that they made.
24:57
It's for adopting families to come closer, for parents to
25:00
understand the child, but also the child to be understood by
25:03
the parents. Not only that, it's for
25:05
siblings. If you have an adopted sibling,
25:07
well, then how is that? You know, you know, appear if
25:10
you have a nephew who's adopted, how do we it's for everyone in
25:13
the family to really better understand adoptees and adoption
25:16
as a whole. But most importantly, I think
25:19
it's for the public. You know, it all starts with
25:21
education and that. So I, I really kind of like to
25:25
market my book to the public and say, if you just want a new
25:28
understanding or just new point of view, just take a, take a
25:31
little read, see, really if you, if the things you've heard about
25:35
adoption are true, if they're real.
25:39
And so, you know, I'm not, I'm not saying that everything in my
25:41
book is, you know, 100% real because, you know, if I think I
25:45
had all the answers figured out, I'd be a fool.
25:48
You know, there's no bigger fool than a man who thinks he's got
25:50
it all figured out. But these are just what I've
25:52
learned in my 19 years of life. And that it's, I'm hoping that
25:56
it, you know, you read it and it leaves you with something, you
25:59
take something away with it. And so I mean, the book's
26:03
essentially just for everyone. It's I'm sure that if you read
26:07
it, you can take something away, if not from a new understanding
26:10
of adoption, but a new understanding of what else am I
26:13
not thinking about differently? What else have I have my biases,
26:18
have my things kind of closed my eyes off too?
26:21
So that's that's kind of what the book I would say is for and
26:26
why I wrote it. When you said it's like
26:29
afternoon cup of coffee read, I'm like picturing fall vibes
26:34
right around the corner. I've got my dog, I've got my
26:38
scarf, and I'm curling up because I think it's really a
26:44
good thing when you sit down and read a story, that someone.
26:48
We all have stories. Everyone has a story.
26:51
Some people are ready to tell it.
26:53
Some people don't know, some people you know, and no
26:57
judgement, but when you are telling your story, it makes
27:02
anyone who's ever felt the similar feeling wherever,
27:05
whatever, whatever it comes from that feeling of being not enough
27:09
or the feeling of who am I or like, who do I want to be or why
27:14
did that happen? Why did that event happen?
27:16
You know, whatever. It's nice to be able to sit down
27:19
and get out of your own head, read someone else's story and
27:23
go, huh, me too. OK.
27:27
I'm not, I'm not alone here. I'm not the only one that's ever
27:30
felt this way, you know? So I just, I love human stories
27:35
like that. Tell me about the process of
27:37
writing it. Did you find, was it, did you
27:40
sit down and it kind of poured out?
27:41
Was it a project over time? And how did it help you kind of
27:45
process everything? Well, I mean it.
27:48
You know, I got the idea the summer of my senior year of high
27:51
school going to freshman year of college, wrote it through my
27:54
freshman year and published it last March.
27:57
So March 29th is the date. OK.
28:00
The process of it, it was whenever, you know, going
28:03
through my first year, it was whenever I had a free time
28:05
Friday or Saturday come around, work on it for a few hours.
28:09
There were some, that's where I'd get like 4 pages down
28:11
looking at the next day go Nope, don't like it, delete it all.
28:14
And you know, so it was, the process was, was hard.
28:18
It was it was tedious. You know, first I had to come to
28:21
terms with my own story. What did I really want to share?
28:25
What did I want to share about me?
28:26
And then it really hit me and said, you know what, I don't
28:29
want to share a single thing about me in my book.
28:31
I don't talk about my story at all on bit because then that
28:35
that's about my story and that's my adoption.
28:38
I wanted you to be about adoption as a whole.
28:42
And so I plus I it also give me something to come on podcast and
28:47
kind of talk about people the. Yeah.
28:50
I guess the biggest thing through writing it all is I had
28:53
to realize what adoption truly was when I first started it in
28:57
all minute I was in my mind. It was well, I had a great
29:00
experience. Why can't other people have a
29:02
great experience? You know, I was, I was not.
29:05
I was I was a very long way thinker of it.
29:09
And then, you know, after connecting with the people, I
29:11
was saying, you know, hey, if I wrote a book, what would you
29:13
want to learn? You know, what would what would
29:15
you want to hear and what's something that your story that
29:18
you shared? It was a lot of asking questions
29:20
to find out what answers I wanted to answer and just some
29:24
of these adoption stories. It it broke my heart because I
29:27
realized that my adoption isn't the only adoption that we're out
29:31
there. It has not been the only
29:33
adoption ever adoption ever out there, you know, continue to
29:36
won't be. And I realized that at its base,
29:40
adoption is the transferring of legal responsibilities from one
29:44
child to another of you know what child from one person to
29:48
another. How that person or how that
29:50
adoptive use their adoption depends on their experience.
29:54
I had a great adoption, so I love adoption.
29:57
But I've heard ten other stories where people had a terrible
30:00
experience, adoptive parents were abusive but didn't feel
30:03
like they were heard, and they do not like adoption.
30:07
It doesn't make my way right, they're way wrong.
30:10
But the one thing that I do know is that adoption isn't going
30:13
away and that we're all not going to wake up and not be
30:17
adopted. So it's how do we, with the
30:20
limited time we have on this planet, how do we help the
30:23
situation? For those who had a great
30:26
experience, how do we use your stories and take aspects from
30:28
your life? How do we pick apart those and
30:31
figure out what worked to help other adoptees and families,
30:35
people who didn't have a great experience, how do we take your
30:39
aspects and figure out what we need to leave out or what we
30:42
need to add? How do we use our experiences to
30:45
help adoption get better? Because no matter your feelings
30:48
on it, left, right, love it, hate it, anything in the middle,
30:51
it's not going to go away. It's not.
30:56
And so it's just how do we make sure that every child can have a
30:58
positive adoption experience and, and, you know, just really
31:03
being able to have that maturity and realized that over the seven
31:08
month time of reading it, my views changed.
31:10
My, my, you know, I now talk about birth mothers and I never
31:14
previously did before that. I never really thought about the
31:18
parents as much as I did. You know, not only are you, you
31:21
know, parenting is the hardest job in the world.
31:22
My dad's famous line to me is there's no book to how to raise
31:26
a child. And what he means by that is he
31:29
doesn't mean that, you know, you can look at parenting books,
31:31
millions come up, but there's no book on how to parent your child
31:36
because everyone's different. And so it was just kind of
31:39
realizing that there are so many different angles that I haven't
31:43
thought about at the beginning of the book, writing it, it
31:47
brings that. It's just, it was an incredible
31:48
learning. It was a learning experience
31:50
more than anything from just the stories I heard.
31:53
And even after the book, it's the stories I'm hearing about
31:56
how it's, you know, what it's done in people's lives and
31:59
families. And you know what?
32:01
What I'm really eager about is, OK, seven months from now,
32:04
where's my brain going to be? How are my views going to be
32:07
changed? How is my mind going to be open
32:09
even more? Because I've learned all that
32:12
within seven months prior. I cannot wait to see what I'm
32:14
going to know seven months in the future.
32:17
Growth mindset love it. And then it's like you tie the,
32:21
the psychology of the growth of I'm always learning, always
32:24
evolving to with, you know, the spiritual aspect of, you know,
32:29
God is always working on you and you're transforming.
32:33
He's transforming you. It's, it's, it's and it's just
32:36
getting better. And you're learn the more you
32:40
pour into that writing, you know, and like letting your
32:44
feelings out. I feel like something happens,
32:46
right? You go to a different place.
32:49
Something shifts. I mean, I'm going to admit this
32:55
and I've admitted and I would fail a test over my own book.
32:59
If you tell me, like if you give me a 10 question test about what
33:03
each chapter is about, like I know the gist.
33:05
And if you asked me like specifics, I'd fail it because
33:09
when I was writing it, my brain went my, it was like something
33:12
took over. Something was writing through me
33:16
like that. I was just Yep, Yep, Yep, Yep.
33:18
I want that. I want that like I would.
33:22
Aim to. It just wrote.
33:23
It wrote itself. It wrote itself.
33:26
Yeah, you know, that's the thing.
33:27
And so, you know, it's, it's that thing of like, I, I wrote
33:30
the book. My name's on it.
33:32
My, you know, my face is on it. But something else took a hold
33:35
of me to write the book. And I, you know, it's, it's just
33:38
kind of that whole thing of I, I don't know, you know, I haven't
33:42
even read it. I haven't said that or read it
33:44
because it's just, I don't know what I'm going to, you know,
33:48
it's so. Funny.
33:49
My last guest, Alfred Brenner, he's a retired Marine who sat
33:53
down and wrote the book, started as journal entries and stuff.
33:56
He just said on Saturday he's like, yeah, I haven't read it.
34:01
Yeah, no. He has read his book and I'm
34:03
like, I'm seeing a pattern here because he like you, It's this
34:07
catharsis of something happens in a in a beautiful way, right?
34:11
When you put pen to paper or something, right?
34:15
Yeah, it's you get transported. When I tell people it wasn't me
34:19
who wrote the book, I generally mean it wasn't me.
34:21
It's my face on there. It's my words.
34:24
It's it's what I have in my brain.
34:26
But to get those brain thoughts on the pen and paper, it was
34:30
something else entirely. I love the, the, the idea of now
34:36
that I'm open to it too, of the idea of the Holy Spirit and
34:41
whether you're Christian, you know, Muslim, Jewish, you know,
34:46
the high or you're searching or you're atheist.
34:49
I, I believe that everybody has that, that choice of what you
34:54
want to believe in. But I'm telling you right now,
34:57
that feeling as you connect and learn more, especially for me
35:02
diving into the Bible and just being connected, you know, some
35:06
when something, something is there and something come and
35:11
whoa, whether it's music or writing where you're like, whoa,
35:15
well, that was otherworldly. Felt different, but amazing,
35:19
right? Yeah.
35:20
Exactly. How was your faith?
35:23
Was faith something you always had?
35:26
Did you find it later, like me in your 40s?
35:29
Sorry. During my life, you know,
35:30
growing up, we'd go to church and, you know, COVID hit and
35:34
that was I think that was when I was in 8th grade.
35:37
So it was, so it was been kind of got out of going to church
35:41
and but it was never a first thought to me.
35:45
It really came when I realized that I shouldn't be here.
35:49
That's when my faith really hit because it was OK.
35:53
I'm a pretty analytical guy. I like facts.
35:55
I like deductive reasoning. Can anybody tell me why I'm here
36:02
through the hurdles and the leaps and the jumps and the
36:05
stars that had to align to get me born in China, abandoned on a
36:09
doorstep to not on scholarship at Cream University, who just
36:13
published his own book and published his own website.
36:17
Do you know what has to all fall in line for that to happen?
36:21
It's not like I'm going to wrap a present.
36:22
Step one, get the paper. Step 2, get the tape.
36:25
Like, oh, it is just so complex. And so I realized the only thing
36:30
that it could have been was the Lord.
36:33
And so, you know what something else is.
36:36
And, you know, I wanted something, you know, seen I
36:39
said, you know, high school is when everything clicked and I
36:41
wanted something to really remind me that.
36:43
And so instead of a class ring, I had a cross design.
36:46
And, you know, fortunately a lot of my grandparents passed away
36:50
in my junior year of high school before anything took off.
36:53
But I had this design and it's. Beautiful.
36:57
And it's got. So this is my birthstone.
37:00
Up and down are my dad's parents birthstones, left and right are
37:04
my mom's parents. And think about it, 4 out of the
37:10
12 months, No 5 out of the 12 months are in here.
37:14
Do you know the odds of not having your birthday month as
37:16
same as a grandparent for the fact that this was able to be a
37:21
thing and have no stones, you know, overlap and go well,
37:26
grandpa's on January. I'm also January can be so we
37:28
shifted over to the fact that it all is legitimately just
37:32
perfectly laid out here and you know, I wear it every day.
37:35
It's a reminder I I feel like they're with me.
37:39
You feel it's an anchor. I know it's.
37:41
I know. It's like this thing's got
37:44
powers, you know? I don't want to sound dorky.
37:46
You want to say. No, but I'm, dude, trust me.
37:48
I'm, I'm everything I said I would never be.
37:51
Like, I'm like, because I was like, really?
37:54
I'm like Ellen. Yeah, I, I thought it was weird
37:56
before. And turns out this is the way to
38:00
go. This is the way.
38:01
You know what I mean? I get yeah.
38:03
It just something comes over you where you want.
38:06
I was just thinking too like, I, I literally have a tattoo and I
38:10
was like, how can I turn that into a cross?
38:11
And I was like, sketch. I'm like, huh, yeah.
38:14
You want something close to you or something to remind you of
38:17
Because it's been so transformative to have faith,
38:20
you know? I see life has been like before
38:24
and after and I'm going to pick after every single time.
38:27
After there's this sort of, and I'm just at the beginning, but
38:30
there's a sort of new baseline every day you don't start.
38:34
I don't have this overwhelming anxiety I used to have because
38:37
I'm like, oh, wait, I'm not by myself.
38:40
I'm not. I'm not alone ever, you know.
38:45
Right. You can feel it when you tap in.
38:48
It's crazy, but. And I mean, with adoptees
38:51
especially, I think faith has got an in crucial role.
38:55
You know, the the very fact of the birth parents that, you
38:59
know, in a perfect world that would have been there.
39:02
You know, you're kind of worried now.
39:03
OK, who do I trust they weren't there.
39:05
You know, self doubt. I don't ever have to worry about
39:09
God or Jesus. You know, them, the Spirit not
39:11
walk by my side. It's always going to be there
39:13
with me. I've seen what it's done in my
39:14
life. And so I think finding a faith,
39:17
you know, I'm not going to tell you what faith.
39:19
It's not, not my life, but as long as you find faith, I think
39:23
I don't, I don't think anyone's life has been, has gotten worse
39:27
because they found it or you know, so it's just, it's a nice,
39:32
but what I had the feelings of unknown for me are now replaced
39:36
with the feelings of support because I now have that extra
39:39
kind of like, oh, you know, it's I got that backbone.
39:43
I got that extra, you know, helping hand on my heart to
39:46
guide me. And so it's, it's a super cool
39:49
thing to have and kind of now live with with that knowledge.
39:53
Oh, yeah, and any faith community, whether you're at the
39:56
mosque, A synagogue, whether you're just gathering in the
39:59
park to talk about God or a church, there's something in
40:02
being surrounded by people who are just for an hour, a week or
40:07
however long, just getting quiet and.
40:10
Trying to listen and better themselves and try to just let
40:14
go of things that they're struggling with because everyone
40:16
struggles with something, you know, and it's been a huge
40:21
anchor. You said whether you're an
40:23
adoptee or not, but specifically, I think when
40:26
you're looking for that foundation and whether when
40:28
you're an adoptee, I can imagine that foundation is blurry.
40:31
What is that? Who is that?
40:33
And you realize who the first father who are, you know what I
40:36
mean? Of everybody that we all go to
40:38
and it's really comforting, you know, to know that I can go on
40:44
and on. I'm like, I'm preaching here.
40:47
Funny how as you get more and more into it more and more my
40:49
podcast, we all just I'm like just comes up because every
40:53
everyone wants to talk about God because God is like God is a
40:57
important theme through adversity.
40:59
God is always there with you despite, despite how it feels.
41:04
Tell me more if you're comfortable and I know you're an
41:07
open book, but I was like to just ask if you're comfortable,
41:09
talk to me about let's talk about the amazing parts of your
41:15
adoption and what were if someone's listening and they're
41:17
considering adopting or maybe their newly adoptive parent and
41:21
they're out there listening to podcasts going how can I be
41:23
amazing? I'm going to do this.
41:26
I love my kid and I how do I do this?
41:28
What were some things that your adoptive parents, your parents
41:31
did that you were like, good job, mom and dad.
41:34
Thank you for that. That was awesome.
41:37
So the first thing they had to do is they looked at me and my
41:39
dad had the talk with me of I'm going to screw up.
41:43
And I don't mean me, I mean him, my dad.
41:46
When you have your parent, don't come to you and go, I'm not
41:49
perfect. I'm going to screw up, I'm going
41:50
to make mistakes. It really sets the line that
41:54
they're human too. And as much grace as we need to
41:57
have for ourselves, we need to have for them, for them the way
42:01
the way I wasn't a perfect child.
42:02
They want a perfect parent was the fact that we both LED with
42:06
our hearts. That's what mattered the fact
42:08
that I they they did a great job of being so my parents born in
42:11
the late 60s older generation couldn't have themselves then
42:15
adopted. OK so they came from that
42:19
generation. We don't speak about anything
42:21
you don't you know the the old kind of unwritten rule.
42:24
Yeah, you know, I know, but we're not going to bring it up
42:27
that generation and but I mean as growing up, it was not like
42:33
that at all. It was like all those barriers
42:35
of society they grew up in were broken because it was.
42:38
You ever need to talk about your adoption, You want to see the
42:41
paperwork, you want to do anything with this, you come let
42:43
us know and it's done. So it was that they they knew
42:48
they weren't going to be perfect because there's no such thing as
42:50
a perfect parent tell. Me about it.
42:52
There's no such thing as kid. The fact that they have that
42:55
open arm and the conversation of you deal with this, you do this
43:01
however you see fit, because what's cool is that they're also
43:04
adopted themselves, both of them.
43:07
So we're really a family. You know, it's just me, my mom,
43:10
my dad. And so the fact we're really a
43:12
family through adoption, it was the fact that just have that
43:16
open arm, know you're going to make mistakes, believe with
43:19
love. You know, I'm not going to give
43:21
parenting advice and I'm very strategic about this because I
43:25
can say I can blow smoke up anyone saying, oh, I'm going to
43:28
do this, I'm going to do that. That means nothing until I hold
43:32
my baby or I have a child in my home.
43:34
It means literally nothing. And so the thing I tell parents
43:39
is at the end of the night, when you close your eyes, can you see
43:43
that you have the best interest in your child's heart?
43:47
Do you have the best interest in mind?
43:48
Do you have that best interest in the spiritual journey?
43:51
Do you have their best interest in everything?
43:55
Do you love them? Do you care for them?
43:57
And if you can say yes to all those questions, you can sleep
43:59
peacefully. It's a great answer.
44:04
I love that. As a parent, that is a great
44:06
exercise that I'm thinking about right now because it's all about
44:11
that intention, right? Even if you screw up.
44:14
Yeah, it's all about intention. What is is that we need to
44:17
realize is that what is it? I think they came out with an
44:20
article. My generation is the most
44:22
generation who's cut in contact with their parents now,
44:24
something like that. I understand that on some
44:28
levels, you know, if there's really a reason to cut contact,
44:30
but I don't want to see families lose contact because of
44:33
mistakes. Everybody makes them.
44:37
It's that whole attitude. You know, you probably got told
44:39
this. I know I get told this all the
44:40
time. I can't wait for you to have a
44:42
kid because you're going to see how hard this is or they're
44:45
going to get. They're going to be by revenge
44:46
to you. They're going to keep you up all
44:48
night, you know? That's what my parents said.
44:50
Yeah. You're so mouthy.
44:51
I'm like, yeah, I love a podcast.
44:53
You know, my kids are like, I'm like.
44:57
OK, yeah, I get it. Yeah, that's yeah, that's where
45:00
they get Yeah. So yeah, it's it's it's the
45:05
whole thing of the same way. I'm not.
45:07
And I'll say it for 100 time. I think right now I'm not a
45:11
perfect kid. They're on a perfect parent.
45:13
No family's perfect mistakes are going to be made, but have the
45:17
same grace. It's the whole treat others the
45:19
way you want to be treated, the same grace and understanding
45:22
that you want to have when you mess up relate on the uppers.
45:26
Because if we thinking about that and start putting others
45:29
before ourselves, I think the world must be much calmer, much
45:34
cooler, much more less stressful place.
45:37
Oh yeah, love that advice because I know there's a lot of
45:41
parents listening or people that are thinking about becoming
45:44
parents because I know before I became a parent, I I love, loved
45:48
kids, loved babies, loved my nieces.
45:50
Oh, did I lose you? OK, something happened.
45:53
I lost you. We're there.
45:54
But I was like, parenting is a big deal.
45:57
And I was had a little anxiety about it because I was like, I
46:00
don't want to mess this up. The intention, right.
46:02
And I think it's as a parent, what I've been trying to do
46:06
lately. I have an 8 year old and a 10
46:07
year old is when they're like doing something.
46:11
It's like, I'm like, definitely in my mind.
46:15
I'm thinking flashback to your childhood, Bree, like what?
46:18
What How did you see the world when you were 8 and 10?
46:22
OK, it wasn't you didn't you hadn't gone to therapy.
46:26
You weren't 43 didn't have like, remember, they're 8 and 10.
46:30
They're 8 and 10. So I've just I have to self.
46:35
If you self regulate before you try to regulate them, game
46:40
changer. But it's like some days, guess
46:42
what, I do a bad job self regulating and then I'm like,
46:46
you know, we're just like, stop it.
46:47
And then after sorry, I yelled, but you know, so that advice of
46:53
what, what was my intention? And and it's just good for
46:57
parents to hear that. You know you don't have to be
46:59
perfect, right? Yeah, and, you know, that's
47:02
coming. I'm just going to say again, you
47:03
know, I'm not bringing this up, you know, because of the age,
47:06
but I am 19. I'm a kid still, you know, it's
47:10
I'm not a parent trying to go yeah, let's go.
47:12
Parents like I am a kid. If a kid gets mad, great.
47:14
Tell them this came from a nine year old you seem.
47:17
So much more mature. I got to say you.
47:19
Got to say I. Really.
47:20
Do do you get that a lot? You're very articulate.
47:24
I blame the records. I I, I grew up loving old
47:30
things. My dad loves history and so I
47:32
really, and it got that from him was today I think me and my dad
47:37
are watching TV and we go, what do you want to watch?
47:40
I think we end up on watching like it was MASH I.
47:46
Love it. We end up on that hanging around
47:49
the older generation, always learning from them, always
47:51
taking advice. I guess you can say their
47:53
mannerisms have been rubbed off on me.
47:55
I. Yeah.
47:57
I got a record player like I've mentioned I've got.
48:01
Oh, old school. Yeah, from the gym.
48:04
I've got both Johnny Cash live at the prison records.
48:08
I've got Michael Jackson's thriller, you know, and it's
48:11
just it's a way for me to really connect with an old sound.
48:17
And you know, I mentioned that a lot of my grandparents past
48:19
before anything came out about me and I became actually who I
48:22
am. But it's also a cool way for me
48:24
to kind of connect with them because it's they were hearing
48:27
the exact same sound I was hearing.
48:30
And so yeah, so it's just all those Glen Campbell, George
48:33
Jones, the right of Lennon, Patsy Cline, Conway Twitty.
48:37
You know, it's like I I've seen Engelbert Humperdinck came to
48:41
Omaha, NE when I was in 4th grade and I saw him, you know,
48:44
Andrea Bocelli just came I think in like May, I believe when So
48:49
Andrea Bocelli. And, you know, it's just that
48:52
way of connecting through music and just through order aspects
48:57
of life. It really just it's again, it's
48:59
become who I, it's part of who I am.
49:01
And you know, it's, I'm, I'm happy to be who I am it because
49:05
someone's going to carry all that stuff on.
49:07
And you know, if it comes to me, I'll do it.
49:08
You'll do it. You know what, I I love that you
49:11
said that because I feel when people are, you know, listening
49:14
to podcasts and like, how do I better myself and become happier
49:18
and do the things you love. If you when you're listening to
49:23
Elvis or you're listening, something gets stirred in you do
49:27
more of that. For me, it's taking a walk and
49:30
listening to worship music, taking a walk, listening to a
49:34
podcast so I can learn, learn a topic or just learn how other
49:38
podcasters do it. I dork out.
49:40
I could, I could sit and make inspirational reels It it's
49:44
scary. I could sit in this coffee shop
49:46
for 12 hours. Just keep refilling.
49:48
I got my music on. That is my my place or Johnny,
49:53
tell me about how has doing what you love right like helped you
49:59
cope with It's not masking pain or or confusion.
50:04
It it almost like just makes space for it.
50:07
How do you see that? So the way I see it is the best
50:11
piece I think I've ever told, the best piece of advice I've
50:13
ever given someone is, you know, they were going through therapy,
50:15
They're going, you know, I'm trying to do their strategies.
50:18
I'm trying to count to 10 when I'm calm.
50:20
I'm trying to find happiness by going on a walk.
50:23
But I hate walking. I'm trying to cook, I hate
50:25
cooking, you know, just trying to do some of this stuff.
50:28
And I finally said, you know, if you're trying too hard to be
50:31
happy and you find yourself unhappy trying to be happy,
50:34
maybe stop trying those things to be happy.
50:37
You know what makes you happy? It's the feelings of you know,
50:40
when I turn on Elvis record, I can sit back and just relax.
50:43
When I watch 7 Brides for seven brothers and Old kittens
50:47
musical, I can laugh. And though that I love the
50:50
storyline and the artistic, you know, ability to do what they
50:55
do. When the big dance scene, you
50:57
know, it's it's not erasing the pain.
51:02
It's more overflowing and get with dopamine, the pain still
51:07
there, but it's a free drug. It's not taking any pills,
51:12
injecting anything. It's legitimately a free drug
51:15
that your body makes on your own.
51:18
And I mean, if I can spend my 10 minutes, you know, if I can
51:22
spend 20 minutes of my time watching an old Western or
51:26
musical and or, you know, kind of staring at my wall, I'm going
51:29
to probably take the free dopamine.
51:31
And so it totally it doesn't erase the pain, but it makes it
51:34
easier to deal with. And the fact that, OK, I'm kind
51:38
of sick of feeling like this. Let's go watch, let's go watch
51:40
cartoon to do something else. And especially when you layer
51:43
that on with making sense of your story, finding support,
51:47
being able to fight those those feelings with facts.
51:50
And then later on that everything, I mean you just that
51:54
adversity doesn't stand a chance, but you really.
51:57
I'm going to repeat what you just said.
51:59
You you fight those feelings with facts, because feelings
52:03
aren't facts. Feelings are.
52:06
Not and fear and my last guest, Alfred said fear is a liar.
52:11
And those feelings come and they go right, like you were saying,
52:15
you, you switch your attention to some, to something that
52:18
sparks joy it and that thing is still over here.
52:22
But you don't have to stare at it all the time.
52:25
Yes, it's there. That pain is there.
52:27
Nobody's saying it's not. Do we want to like stare at it
52:30
for any pain, right? Do we want to stare at the fact
52:33
that we lost our job every day all day?
52:36
Or do we want to go bowling with our friends and be silly for
52:40
three hours just to get our mind out?
52:41
That stuff adds up. You can't just keep staring at
52:45
the pain, right, man? We've talked about in your book
52:50
it's insights, right? And you were saying anyone who
52:54
reads it, that feeling of not being enough for finding
52:57
identity insights about adoption.
53:00
And what I love is that when you're going around also talking
53:05
about your book, you have this story of you can really feel
53:12
what it feels like when you're posing these questions, right?
53:16
Your experience, like you said, you're 19 years old.
53:19
You don't claim to have all the answers, but I think there's so
53:21
much power in telling your story.
53:25
Tell me about how it helped you find some of those answers
53:29
right. Long winded way of asking you
53:32
what would be one of the insights that was most
53:34
transformative for you personally?
53:39
I think it was the prologue writing that it wasn't so much
53:42
the insights that I wanted to inform other people or, you
53:45
know, let other people know. If it was the prologue of
53:48
realizing that I got a lot of life to live and I got a lot of
53:51
life to learn. I know that I've done some great
53:56
things, I've accomplished a lot from my age, but at the end of
54:00
the day, they're just things. It doesn't make me better and it
54:03
doesn't make me worse than anybody.
54:06
So it was the inside of realizing that I can now as
54:09
they're running into a situation and have emotions upfront, I can
54:13
now sit back, self analyze, try and put myself in their shoes.
54:18
So it that inside of realizing that I'm not always high on my
54:21
horse, I'm not always then no at all.
54:25
I don't have it all figured out. Being able to kind of accept
54:27
that and go, OK, where do I do have my footing?
54:31
Where do I have my footing in this argument?
54:33
Where do I have this footing in this meeting in the school day,
54:36
in my day? Where do I have my actual
54:38
footing and not just letting emotions run that I think that
54:41
was the biggest insight I've ever taken away.
54:44
And you know, like I said, I've learned a lot.
54:47
I know how I'm confident in my abilities.
54:49
I'll say to read a room to learn when people are genuine, to see,
54:53
you know, are people really who they say they are?
54:57
I'm confident now my abilities through experiences, but that
55:00
doesn't mean I can't have, you know, more stuff to learn
55:03
Tonight, like today I said I was working, a guy came in, old
55:06
gentleman had a real nice car. They were talking like it.
55:11
I think it was like a 56 Bel Air.
55:14
And you don't get that car by just slacking off and doing
55:17
nothing. And so he had a nice wash on,
55:20
helped him a little bit. And I asked him and I said, you
55:23
know, every time we have a customer with a very nice car
55:25
and or even just anyone, if I talk to him, I'll say, OK, I'm
55:29
19. What life advice do you have for
55:31
me? And it's all about how I can
55:34
learn. And you'll get everything from
55:37
all sorts of angles. And what it is is that you're
55:41
going to get a lot of life advice.
55:43
I'm going to get a lot of a life advice.
55:45
Some of it I'll take worth more than others.
55:47
Some of it I'll throw out the window at the end of the day if
55:51
I can shut my eyes and lay my head on my pillow, knowing that
55:55
I can sleep in the decisions that I made and lay in the bed.
55:58
I make myself with my actions and I'm good to go.
56:02
Love how you said that if I lay in the bed, I made myself with
56:06
my actions. Love that.
56:09
I've never actually thought about it that way.
56:11
I would say like, you know, you sleep in the bed, you know, you
56:13
sleep in the bed, you make whatever, whatever that phrase
56:15
is, but you lay in the bed, you sleep and what it looks like
56:19
ends up it's it's a compilation of your actions and choices.
56:23
Man, I wish I knew that when I was 19.
56:25
Oh man, no, this is so cool. Your wisdom and the way you have
56:30
the gift you have of even just from reading your website and
56:33
your book, as soon as, as soon as we're done here, it's coming
56:36
in the mail. The way that you're able to
56:38
articulate it, I think is a real and not that you need validation
56:42
for me. I'm just telling you, I'm
56:44
working on not needing validation that it's a beautiful
56:47
gift to give to anyone. Because I think also your
56:54
perspective as someone who is 19, again, I, I'm not a big
56:58
believer in age determining where you're at.
57:00
I think there are people that are just coming.
57:02
Everyone's journey is at different ages and you realize
57:07
things in different decades and then some.
57:10
You know, it's all such a beautiful journey, but I think
57:12
we can learn so much from the older generation, from our
57:17
peers, and then from our kids if we finally just maybe you can
57:20
actually learn something instead of trying to just bark at them
57:23
all the time, right? It's exciting to see where
57:26
you're going to go from this because you were saying before,
57:28
you just published your website, you have your book, you've been
57:33
on podcasts, and we're going to link to all that stuff in the
57:36
show notes. What do you have brewing in your
57:38
mind next? Anything that you can, you can
57:41
tease us with. Or don't you know, don't give it
57:43
all away. I guess what I have in my mind
57:46
next is how far can I really take this book?
57:51
How far can I really help? How, how many families can I
57:57
really help provide this resource to and get this book in
57:59
their homes? How, just how do I help people?
58:03
Like I said, at the end of the day it's how do I help people?
58:08
Scale that help get that help out there.
58:11
And like I said, was it that that question, I'm getting a lot
58:13
as well. What's next?
58:14
What do you want to do? I just want to help people.
58:16
I'll take it day by day because if you focus much in the future,
58:20
you're going to miss the present.
58:22
So I'm taking it day by day, helping people, seeing what
58:25
opportunities knock at my door because I know everything I'm
58:29
doing comes from a good place of heart.
58:32
I know that if you have, if any of you know, as much love as I
58:36
get from doing this, I also get some hate.
58:39
You know, like I told you, I say that if you have an issue with a
58:42
19 year old kid trying to do what I'm doing, that says
58:44
everything about you and nothing about me.
58:48
And that I know what I'm doing comes from a good place.
58:51
It comes from a place of things that I wish I had.
58:54
And really just as long as I can keep being the person I am,
59:02
being a good person, I hope doing what I can for others.
59:07
My my opportunities kind of just follow that, you know, I'm a go
59:11
getter, I'm an achiever. I like chasing it, but I don't
59:17
know. It's it's again, it's that other
59:19
feeling right now. I'm not I'm out of loss of words
59:21
and that usually doesn't happen to me.
59:23
But it's just that extra kind of, you know, spiritual kind of
59:27
feeling I have that die. I don't know how I don't have
59:30
all the answers right now for my features plans, but I'm positive
59:33
and I'm pretty excited to see what happens.
59:36
So we're both seems to see just kind of seeing what happens and
59:39
you know, I can't wait a. 100% and that's where the faith turns
59:44
into what used to be anxiety for me is like, oh, I'm so excited.
59:50
I have no idea what's and but I know that it's taken care of.
59:55
And I know we just talked at church today about trials are
1:00:00
expected, necessary. They're coming for everybody
1:00:04
trials in different sizes at different times to different
1:00:08
degrees, but they're actually what forges you in the fire and
1:00:13
sharpens you. And so it's, it's actually, he
1:00:16
was saying there's a part in the Bible, rejoice when there's
1:00:20
stuff happening because you are getting transformed.
1:00:24
And then you're going to, it's just such a beautiful process
1:00:27
when you, when you start this journey of going after what you
1:00:31
want, right doing, knowing that you want to help people, but at
1:00:35
the same time letting go of you can't control exactly how that's
1:00:38
going to turn out in what way, or you don't know what podcast
1:00:42
comes knocking on your door. And then this leads to this.
1:00:44
And then, oh, I had lunch with this person.
1:00:46
I mean, it's so exciting to know that, right?
1:00:49
And you've got such a great mindset, presence, attitude.
1:00:54
I can't wait to follow you and see everyone who comes on the
1:00:57
show. Now we're all the besties or oh,
1:00:59
what's going next? Oh, oh, what are they?
1:01:01
Oh, you know, and it's just such a cool community of people who
1:01:05
want to help people. I just I'm excited to read your
1:01:08
book and see your next adventures because marked by
1:01:12
adoption, I think goes goes in so many.
1:01:15
You can tell your story in so many ways, you know?
1:01:19
So we'll have to have you out sometime.
1:01:20
Big dreams for in person events where all my guests come and
1:01:24
tell your story in person, from start to finish, Whatever.
1:01:27
It happens. You got to hopefully let me know
1:01:30
about this. I can't believe I've gone this
1:01:33
podcast without mentioning this particular person, but my one
1:01:37
piece of advice is learned and all else you can learn.
1:01:41
And I have a mentor. Her name's Shanna Bingham.
1:01:43
She I think today just one like the Miss ultimate international
1:01:48
Miss or something at a pageant. She is a knockout superstar and
1:01:52
everything that I've ever done or will do stems from her.
1:01:55
She's the reason like the reason why I got into adoption my
1:01:58
senior year. I get invited to testify for
1:02:01
resolution at a Nebraska state capitol from her that she helped
1:02:05
brought up bring up in the center there.
1:02:07
I gave my testimony about a lot of I will as I wish I wishes I
1:02:10
had with my parents had goes great at the end of it.
1:02:15
At the end of it, a senator comes up to me and goes turn
1:02:17
those I wills and turn those I wants and I wills.
1:02:23
And so it's really just you know, that's what sparked all
1:02:28
and put me on this tournament. And then within two to three
1:02:30
years of my life, it is just domino fell after one or two
1:02:34
another. But I mean, learn, find a mentor
1:02:38
if if there's something you want to do, they're like, I'm sure in
1:02:40
your spiritual journey, you have someone in mind that's your
1:02:42
mentor. And Shannon Bingham is my mentor
1:02:46
and she's just, I could sit here for another hour and probably
1:02:49
sing her praises. But the way she, you know, she
1:02:52
kind of the way she looks at the world, the way she treats
1:02:56
others, she treats others with kindness.
1:02:59
She wants others to be the best version of themselves.
1:03:03
And it's just really learning all I can't from her.
1:03:06
You know, I have met up with her.
1:03:08
I have been around her family maybe 100 times.
1:03:12
But every time I get up, hey, family's coming over.
1:03:15
Hey, coming to the shop. Well, you know what, can you
1:03:17
help me out with this event? I am so eager to go because I
1:03:21
know that I could go hang out with that family and her 100
1:03:24
times more. And there was something new that
1:03:25
I can always learn. So that's my advice.
1:03:29
Learn, learn, learn family from friends.
1:03:33
Learned. You can never learn too much.
1:03:34
Our brain can get as big as we want when you keep learning the
1:03:37
same thing that Mylan's sheath just keeps building.
1:03:40
And so it's my advice. I'd say just learn.
1:03:43
Phenomenal advice. Mentors are quite transformative
1:03:48
that shepherding you through, you know, adversity, business,
1:03:52
anything. We're not, we're not designed to
1:03:54
do this alone, clearly, right? People need people.
1:03:59
Yeah, beautiful. Well, seriously, Wilson, thank
1:04:04
you so much. And I am really, really grateful
1:04:08
that we are connected and that you, you know, chose to be a
1:04:14
guest on this podcast. I don't take it lightly when
1:04:18
anybody comes on and is vulnerable and takes the time to
1:04:23
just speak with me and like, be real.
1:04:25
And I think there's this movement in the world of
1:04:28
authenticity and just keeping it real and no shame and just
1:04:34
talking about solutions. And I think your book and
1:04:37
especially being an old person like me, you're it's so exciting
1:04:41
to see a younger generation. Just I'm learning so much from
1:04:46
you, you know, as 40 somethings, you know, we, we need help.
1:04:50
So keep keep writing and keep talking so I can learn.
1:04:54
Absolutely. I appreciate the time for you
1:04:56
allowing me to be a guest. You know, this pocket purchase
1:04:59
in written adversity, You know, I'll tell the listeners I didn't
1:05:02
know what this was a week ago. Saw real connected with
1:05:06
somebody, made mistake, got connected.
1:05:08
Really. Yeah.
1:05:09
And but, I mean, I just want to say that it's incredible to see
1:05:13
what you're doing too, you know, wanting to have people have an
1:05:17
opinion and have a voice, you know, and that whole just
1:05:21
adversity, you're not selling the problem.
1:05:24
A lot of people sell the problem.
1:05:26
You're selling the. Solution.
1:05:27
I like that. That truly just, it's remarkable
1:05:30
about me. It's remarkable about you.
1:05:32
And yeah, nice with me. And so it's, it's incredible to
1:05:35
see what you're, what you've done, what you're doing.
1:05:37
And I think it is going to be real big.
1:05:41
I think it's going to be bigger than it's ever been.
1:05:44
Well, I'm excited. I'm feeling something's
1:05:46
happening. I'm just riding the wave.
1:05:48
I'm like everything being like just, I'll just go, you just
1:05:52
send me all these people. And then I'm like so grateful.
1:05:56
I, I laugh out loud when I get an e-mail.
1:05:58
Of course, of course. God, you're just, you're showing
1:06:00
off, God, just showing off. I'm another amazing person.
1:06:03
They, they want to, they want to talk to me.
1:06:05
Oh, OK, this is amazing. You know, the more you, the more
1:06:09
you go for it, the more God gives back, you know?
1:06:14
And the more close. Your mind.
1:06:16
Yeah, I know it's the. More I'm.
1:06:18
The more help, you know, put his faith in you and it's just.
1:06:21
Last question, favorite Elvis song?
1:06:25
Indescribably blue. It's not a popular song, but the
1:06:30
but the story that goes around is that it was like something
1:06:33
like Elvis wasn't feeling particularly liking, like he
1:06:36
wants to go to the recording studio.
1:06:38
So they brought the recording mics to him and his hotel and
1:06:42
then overlaid the, you know, the backup music and the backup
1:06:46
singers. So when you listen to the song
1:06:48
Indescribably Blue, I can just picture Elvis just in that hotel
1:06:52
going, yeah, I don't want to get up today and just recording it
1:06:55
and everything done today. You know, they need the fanciest
1:06:59
newest mics, the editors, the the fact that this guy can just
1:07:03
have a microphone brought in in that time period.
1:07:06
Just go, OK, I'm just going to sing like an Angel now just
1:07:08
because you can't beat that talent and can't find it
1:07:13
anymore. And so that song about just
1:07:16
really just the back story of that song and how beautiful that
1:07:20
song is. I recommend you definitely
1:07:22
listen to that right after. Going to.
1:07:24
It's that's my favorite Elvis song I believe.
1:07:27
Well, I'm going to listen to it. I'm going to go for a walk later
1:07:29
and I'm like, I'm going to listen to some Elvis.
1:07:31
I actually went to 8th grade. 8th grade, I went to Graceland.
1:07:36
Graceland, it was amazing. I literally remember, I remember
1:07:40
every part of it. I was like, this is so cool,
1:07:43
Cool because I knew who Elvis was back then.
1:07:45
I was like, have you, have you had a chance to go yet?
1:07:48
I've been three times. That was my Disney World instead
1:07:53
of, you know, do you want to go to the Nah, I'd go back to
1:07:56
Graceland, say it was before. Yeah, you're an old.
1:07:59
Soul. Now they don't.
1:08:00
Yeah, now it's there's, there's I can send you.
1:08:03
There's a little preschool photo of me dressed up as Elvis
1:08:06
Presley. I can send that to you.
1:08:08
We could you could. You could use that as can I.
1:08:10
Please, I need to because I feel like the clip, there's going to
1:08:14
be some Elvis. There's going to be a lot to
1:08:16
work with now. I'm loving this.
1:08:19
No, I'll send that over. Well guys, please go check out
1:08:24
Wilson's website. I'm getting the URL here marked
1:08:28
by adoption.com. You can see all about is it for
1:08:32
me testimonials, other media features, how to order it and
1:08:37
how to talk to Wilson. Because I feel you're going to
1:08:40
be a busy guy. I'm going to have to be busting
1:08:43
down your door to be like, come back and talk to me.
1:08:45
You're like, Bree, I'm kind of busy right now, OK.
1:08:50
But please go have a wonderful night and thank you again for
1:08:53
everything. Thank you for everything.
1:08:55
It's been an incredible honor. Awesome.
1:08:58
Well, we will talk soon my friend all.
1:09:00
Right. Bye, bye, bye.