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The Huddle: Should we expect a capital gains tax? · The SME Stream

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  Speaker 1: The huddle with New Zealand Southerby's International Realty, local and
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  Speaker 1: global exposure like no other.
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  Speaker 2: Jordan Williams Taxpayer Union and Mike Monroe, former chief of
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  Speaker 2: Staff to just send our doners with us. Now, hello
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  Speaker 2: you too, Mike.
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  Speaker 3: You were around in the nineteen eighties. How did this happen?
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  Speaker 4: I sure was. I can move my kids in the
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  Speaker 4: nineteen nineties complaining about n CEA.
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  Speaker 3: Oh well I was talking.
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  Speaker 2: No, I'm talking about the cup of tea at the hairdresser.
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  Speaker 2: Were you around in Parliament at that stage?
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  Speaker 3: Did you? Did you witness? Can you tell us which
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  Speaker 3: MP thought this was a great idea?
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  Speaker 4: Oh no, I can't. The memory is faded on that one.
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  Speaker 3: Okay.
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  Speaker 4: So I wasn't so phonically challenging those days. I might
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  Speaker 4: have taken more notice, but I don't know.
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  Speaker 3: Now, Jordan, did you ever work with Nicky K?
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  Speaker 4: No? I didn't.
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  Speaker 1: The media release today from the Taxpayers Union was rightly
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  Speaker 1: from David Farrer, who was very close to NICKI. It's
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  Speaker 1: extraordinary that she's that mit A Piers UNI was terminal
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  Speaker 1: since twenty sixteen and has continued to work away. It
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  Speaker 1: certainly puts some context slightly differently when she stepped up
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  Speaker 1: to be deputy leader that, you know, knowing it clearly
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  Speaker 1: wasn't for personal ambition.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, it absolutely does.
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  Speaker 2: What do you reckon?
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  Speaker 3: What do you reckon?
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  Speaker 1: Mike?
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  Speaker 2: It was that made her so special that she was
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  Speaker 2: able to I mean, it's quite an extraordinary thing to
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  Speaker 2: be able to say that you beat Jacinda Ardoun twice
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  Speaker 2: and kept her out of an electorate like Auckland Central.
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  Speaker 3: What did she have?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was she was somebody who stood out from
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  Speaker 4: the back, and she was in that sort of top terra,
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  Speaker 4: you know, high achievers who got into cabinet pretty quickly.
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  Speaker 4: But I think what maybe helps explain it was something
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  Speaker 4: just Cinda Ardune said today in a social post, and
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  Speaker 4: she said that one great thing about Nicki Kay was
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  Speaker 4: that she would judge whether an idea was good or
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  Speaker 4: bad or and different based on her values rather than
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  Speaker 4: just politics. Yeah, and that's a really rare that's a
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  Speaker 4: rare thing in politics. We don't see that very often.
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  Speaker 4: The numbers of people who you could apply that description to,
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  Speaker 4: you know, you can count on the fingers of one hand.
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  Speaker 4: And I think maybe that's where she was. Something a
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  Speaker 4: bit different.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, is that a fair point, Jordan, Like parliamentarians are
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  Speaker 2: whipped so much right now to be like, if you
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  Speaker 2: belong to the National Party, you will do all the
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  Speaker 2: following things and think like a National Party MP, and
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  Speaker 2: if you belong to the Greens and blah blah blah,
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  Speaker 2: and maybe actually there is some benefit in being unwhipped.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I can think of an example where,
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  Speaker 1: for example, she was allowed to cross the floor on
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  Speaker 1: an issue that's right, was something to do with Wahiki Island,
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  Speaker 1: or there was a particular issue was it was a
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  Speaker 1: great barrier, mine, a great barrier. Sorry, I'm quite right, Mike.
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  Speaker 1: So you know, maybe one of her strengths was that
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  Speaker 1: sort of old fashioned electric MP.
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  Speaker 3: Now, Mike, you mentioned n ce A. Would you get
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  Speaker 3: rid of n c A.
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  Speaker 4: Well, yeah, look as turning into a horror show, m
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  Speaker 4: c A. There's just far too many inconsistencies and and
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  Speaker 4: you know, and there's great inconsistencies and how schools are
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  Speaker 4: handling it, and a lot of schools have already dropped it.
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  Speaker 4: And look, this is our national qualification and it's got
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  Speaker 4: to be consistent across the whole country. Because kids changed
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  Speaker 4: pools for all sorts of reasons. Families move towns and whatever.
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  Speaker 4: People move suburbs, and so you can't have a situation
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  Speaker 4: where you're where the kids are going into a different
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  Speaker 4: setup every time they change schools. So you're getting that
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  Speaker 4: consistency is critical, and the number of schools now opting
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  Speaker 4: out tells me they've really got to go back right
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  Speaker 4: to the start and sort of do a really thorough
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  Speaker 4: ordered of it.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, what do you reckon, Jordan?
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  Speaker 1: What first got me into politics was I was the
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  Speaker 1: guineap a year for NCA twenty five years ago. It
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  Speaker 1: was this and ge that, and frankly Trevor Mallard should
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  Speaker 1: hang his head in shame. I recall that this was
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  Speaker 1: totally predictable. The whole purpose of a national qualification is
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  Speaker 1: that it equals playing field, doesn't matter if you go
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  Speaker 1: what school you went to. It was that it meant
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  Speaker 1: something and to see rating is in and reporting that.
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  Speaker 1: Now the blob acknowledge that Level one difficulty varies between
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  Speaker 1: subjects and skills. Will no s Sherlock remember the Cambridge
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  Speaker 1: And this was literally when my fifth form year the Cambridge.
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  Speaker 1: We're getting credits for picking up rubbish and if you
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  Speaker 1: great went to Cambridge high school. You know that that
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  Speaker 1: didn't mean as much. The whole point of it was was,
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  Speaker 1: you know, so it is going to private school. I
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  Speaker 1: also did Cambridge Math in the same year. I did
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  Speaker 1: school See in the fourth form and then Guinea Pig
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  Speaker 1: first the year in CEA in the fifth form, and
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  Speaker 1: so it wasn't just dumbing down. And I think that
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  Speaker 1: the reason we don't do the international qualifications is it
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  Speaker 1: would show up just how far behind Zealand.
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  Speaker 2: Is have fallen in the last twenty five years. Okay,
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  Speaker 2: we'll take a break with these two guys. Come back
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  Speaker 2: and just right, you're back of the huddle. Jordan Williams
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  Speaker 2: Mike Munroe.
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  Speaker 3: Mike, what do you think Labour's going to do? Are
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  Speaker 3: they going to pick the capital gains tax this weekend?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah? I think we're on a inevitable sort of course here, Heather.
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  Speaker 4: After Labor got booted out last year, one of the
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  Speaker 4: big gripes Labor people had right across the country was
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  Speaker 4: that the capital gains tax had been mixed by two
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  Speaker 4: Prime ministers, both just Sindra Ardern and Hipkins had their
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  Speaker 4: reasons for putting that off the agenda, and that's been
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  Speaker 4: part of the mix for labor people for a long time,
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  Speaker 4: and since the election, a lot of work's been going on,
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  Speaker 4: a lot of talks been going on, and they're getting
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  Speaker 4: up ahead of steam on this, and there is going
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  Speaker 4: to be a capital gains tax of some form. But
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  Speaker 4: my concern is is that that they can't do it
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  Speaker 4: sort of alone. I mean, every tax has got its
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  Speaker 4: trade offs and costs and you know, inefficiencies, and it's
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  Speaker 4: got to be part of a change mixed. It has
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  Speaker 4: to be a part of a change to the mix
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  Speaker 4: of taxes. There's got to be a sort of consolidated
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  Speaker 4: package of tax change and capital gains will be part
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  Speaker 4: of that. But it's going to take a little while
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  Speaker 4: yet before they get to that point of laying out
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  Speaker 4: that plan, at least another year.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I mean I'm interested to see what a
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  Speaker 2: complete package is going to look like, Jordan. But if
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  Speaker 2: they just go for the capital gains tax, I'm all
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  Speaker 2: for that, because then they just don't get elected.
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  Speaker 1: Cool by means Paul Mike's been drinking the radio and
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  Speaker 1: New Zealand kool aid on on capital gains tax. I
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  Speaker 1: think it's a real shame actually that we have our
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  Speaker 1: opposition major opposition party that is going into its first
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  Speaker 1: year conference having been booted out, and instead of really
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  Speaker 1: looking at the fundamental questions, what makes New Zealand more prosperous,
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  Speaker 1: how do we stop this sort of decline of our
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  Speaker 1: public services, et cetera, et cetera, they are going in
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  Speaker 1: with a choice between do you want a wealth tax
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  Speaker 1: or do you want a cap of gains tax? That's
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  Speaker 1: literally the choice entire Texas this way this weekend. But
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  Speaker 1: what I find so frustrating about this debate is the
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  Speaker 1: way I put aside the way that our n zet asked,
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  Speaker 1: you know, do you want more taxes on X, Y Z,
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  Speaker 1: and then added them all together and said this is
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  Speaker 1: the number one, the capital gains tax. But the fundamental
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  Speaker 1: problem economic story of my lifetime is New Zealand is
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  Speaker 1: low wages, low productivity because we're undercapitalized. Yes, that you
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  Speaker 1: would tax that very thing children's is crazy.
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  Speaker 2: Your argument is you need to get capital into the country,
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  Speaker 2: so don't put a capital gains text on.
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  Speaker 1: The The problem is, and this is the fundamental dishonesty
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  Speaker 1: of Chris Hipkins. Yes says, oh, it's it's to fix
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  Speaker 1: the housing prices because is so much money. There is
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  Speaker 1: too much money going into into housing and not into
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  Speaker 1: productive assets. But any capital gains text has been proposed
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  Speaker 1: in this country has excluded the family home. You're making
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  Speaker 1: the very problem and white anti New Zealanders or gas
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  Speaker 1: light in them rather saying we'll have the exact opposite effect.
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  Speaker 4: Mike, Now, Jordan, you're out of date. Hip can stop
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  Speaker 4: saying that a long time ago. This is about the
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  Speaker 4: cost you would Is he going to text the family
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  Speaker 4: home with inequality?
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  Speaker 3: Mike? Is he going to text the family home?
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  Speaker 4: No doubt. The problem that's text is that straight away
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  Speaker 4: you start talking about some exemptions and objections and compromises.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, the capital gains text can be manipulated in
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  Speaker 4: many ways. And that's why I say it's about the
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  Speaker 4: mix of taxes. You're going to do that, you're going
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  Speaker 4: have to move elsewhere.
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  Speaker 1: There is a fundamental shift there though, because for a
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  Speaker 1: generation we've had a approach whereby the tax system is
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  Speaker 1: to raise the necessary revenue at least possible costs, meaning
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  Speaker 1: the least possible economic distortions. However, it's now been used
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  Speaker 1: by labor, going back to a nineteen seventies mode of
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  Speaker 1: we'll use our tax system to redistribute. Yes, because that's
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  Speaker 1: that and under our the approach we've taken for successive
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  Speaker 1: taxing working groups is.
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  Speaker 4: The business that is on the spending.
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  Speaker 2: Side of well.
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  Speaker 1: Often Labour's rhetoric, but not in its actions. Here seems
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  Speaker 1: to actually be a real shift or frankly, a shift
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  Speaker 1: to the left. Not just in New Zealand Labor, but
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  Speaker 1: and you know we're seeing the same in the UK.
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  Speaker 4: It would be nice to have a point of difference
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  Speaker 4: between the major parties on such a key thing, don't
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  Speaker 4: you think. I mean, so many areas these days they
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  Speaker 4: sort of shadow each other. I think you want to
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  Speaker 4: be poor for your boots and catch that.
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  Speaker 1: A recipe that he's yelling to be poorer for your boots.
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  Speaker 1: You know, you're taxing the very thing that we need
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  Speaker 1: for high wages, for better standards of living.
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  Speaker 4: Well, not doing anything as a recipe to be unfairer.
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  Speaker 4: And and what do you think to be addressed?
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  Speaker 2: Better to be poor and fair that some of us
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  Speaker 2: than some of us be rich and it be unfair.
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  Speaker 2: All right, We're going to leave it there, guys. I
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  Speaker 2: really appreciate the pair of you.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you so much. I wanted to talk to you
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  Speaker 3: about the post, but we'll leave it for another day
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  Speaker 3: of heaps of text.
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  Speaker 1: Anyway, I'll send you a letter.
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  Speaker 3: I'll see it on the other side of the year.
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  Speaker 3: Jordan Williams, Mike Monrading,