Latest / Intentionally Blank / Spider-Man: Brand New Day Review — Intentionally Blank Ep. 273

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Spider-Man: Brand New Day Review — Intentionally Blank Ep. 273 · Intentionally Blank

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: So Dan, how's uh how's uh Donald's desk feel to you?
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean I'm a big old nerd, uh huh, but I am not nearly a big enough nerd to handle this desk.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: For those who are missing the video feed, Donald got promoted to full-time co-host last week because uh Dan wasn't here.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: So we're forcing him to sit in Donald's anime and video game laden desk.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: Can you name any of those games, do you think?
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Just that's in that general proximity.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: I could name them.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: As in give them names.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we ought to swap places back again.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: I I unfortunately agree.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Donald, you are demoted to off-screen behind the scenes co-host.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Off-screen.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, but I'm I'm bringing two of them with me.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want me to name them?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: No?
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Dan's gonna name them.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Who who did you bring?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: See, I brought it my favorites.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: Boy, what should we call her?
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: You know what?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: Her name is Monica.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Monica.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's not what I would have picked.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I was gonna go with something big and crazy, but I think Monica is funnier.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: So anime girl number one.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_03: Anime girl number two here with two little chakras.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: This is Zenita Warrior Princess.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: Oh Zenita, not Zina.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: No, of course not.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: This is Zina's daughter.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: Zanita.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: This is Zina Warrior Princess, the next generation.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: And she's gone kind of manga.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Somehow time traveled to modern Japan and got Yeah.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was a big episode when she did that.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: Fans loved it.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: Is she a cat girl?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, she does have, and those are real ears.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's not like headphones or anything.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: No, real ears.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: In the game, she is, she has, in fact, got the real ears.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: So you managed to pick a cat girl.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Good job.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: I will say I am shocked how close you got with the first name.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: It is an M name.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: Her name is Mithra, but Monica is close enough that it's like, yeah.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: I got M and A correct.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like I'm I'm surprised by your luck.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: What game slash anime are they from?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and Xenoblade Chronicles 3.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: So you got Xena.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: I got M-A and Xena correct.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: X-E-N.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: Well, there we go.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: I have not played those, though my brother really likes them.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: They are some of, if not my favorite games of all time.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: Anyone that's listening, go play Xenoblade Chronicles.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: They're amazing.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: So we're not talking about anime, but we'll be having anime girls hanging out with us.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're just gonna sit.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want one in front of you?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm good.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: But there's another anime girl.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: How many anime girls do you have on your desk?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: Let's not answer that question.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: There you go.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: What's her name?
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: That one.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_03: No, you no, I don't want you to tell me.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: Brandon to tell me.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, her name is Melvin.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: Melvin and Monica sitting in a tree.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: Her shirt is missing the back.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: That part might have fallen off while I was walking over.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: Is the least important part of a shirt?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I suppose.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: I suppose.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I have to have an anime girl.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: So it has been decreed by what I have been led to understand is a full co-host of this show.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: A full co-host of the show.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: I'm furious.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: So what happens when you leave Shenan Windsic?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Doing important things.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: You were a Gen Con.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: But you know.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, so was he.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: That's true.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: That's true.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: Why were you back?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: Because I went straight from Gen Con to be a GM on a gaming cruise.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: Very important.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: We're actually going to talk about something relevant today.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: He may actually put this one because it is relevant before the episode where he was host.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's possible.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: So before the episode where he gets promoted?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because he likes to sometimes move up the timely ones because we're actually going to talk about Spider-Man.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: We're on time.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: The new Spider-Man.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're only like three weeks late.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: That's like the closest to launch time that we've ever been on anything.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, wow.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess we'll do non-spoiler first and then spoiler.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Non-spoiler.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: What did you think of Spider-Man Brand New Day?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: See, you always put me in these positions.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: Do you want me to be in the position?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm fine.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: I believe two things.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: Number one, I think Brand New Day is the best MCU Spider-Man movie.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: Number two, I also have a lot of problems with it.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to be in trouble with you too because I walked out of the theater disappointed.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: No, I totally believe that.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I expected a 10.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: This is absolutely unfair to Spider-Man because it has the highest reviews.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone was gushing over it.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not going to agree that it's the best.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think I liked the third one better, and I might have liked the first one better.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: I loved how they brought in the other two Spider-Man and how they turned that into a story about Tom Holland's Spider-Man learning different lessons, like learning from and things like that.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought that was really cleverly done and interesting to see all the villains back.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I also think number one doesn't get enough credit for finding a way to get a Spider-Man story into the MCU in such a way that it still felt a little small stakes, but was still engaging and interesting.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: Homecoming is the only one that I think might be better than Brand New Day.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's absolutely really good.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now, that's not to say Brand New Day is a bad film.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, Brand New Day is a good film.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: However, this is just as expectation.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: I walked in expecting a 10.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't feel like I got a 10.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: I got a 10 in like I know why people love this film and the things they love about it, I think are tens.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: And for a lot of people, I can see why that could make the movie a 10 for you.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: If the things that you want most out of a Spider-Man movie are tens in this movie, then please only direct your rage at Dan in this regard.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: Meaning, I am going to give your favorite Spider-Man movie internet a lower grade than you want it to be.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I acknowledge that the parts of it that are good are really good.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_03: And somehow that's my fault.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: I just want it directed at you.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: I can tank this aggro for you.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, you tank the aggro.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: One thing I will say is that the refrigerator logic of this movie has made me dislike it more in the four or five days since I watched it.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: So meaning refrigerator logic, meaning the Indiana Jones refrigerator logic.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: Refrigerator logic is when you love something while you're watching it, but then later, when you're getting snacks out of the fridge, you realize, oh, okay.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: What about that?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we'll see if the things that you refrigerator logic were the things that bothered me as I was watching it.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: We'll probably spend most of the episode talking about the things we don't like.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's still a good movie.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about, without spoilers, the things.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: Before we get into specifics, since we're talking about Spider-Man and you mentioned No Way Home.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_03: I do want to say that the internet is kind of slowly turning against that movie.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_03: Is it?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: No Way Home.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's been really interesting to watch my opinions about it get vindicated very slowly over the last year or two.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: In what ways?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of people are starting to now, especially as they've been watching it at home instead of in the theater, they're noticing a lot of the pacing problems that I had.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: It has pacing problems.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of the big dead zones where they, I think maybe wisely left room for theaters to cheer at stuff.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: And then you watch it at home and you're like, there's 30 seconds of nothing going on.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: I still like it.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: It is not as well made.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Here's some specifics that are generic.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: The new one feels way less like CG Gobbledybuck.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: And Spider-Man films from the beginning, going back to Sam Raimi, have this problem because they need to CG enough of the action, and Spider-Man's about fluidity and action that you end up feeling like suddenly Toby turns into a cartoon character for a few scenes.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: And like whoever didn't say, let's put him in a real suit in the previous ones needs to be, I'm saying that weirdly, but accolades whoever said, put him in a real suit, like that folds.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: And like I don't know if you know this, but in this one, the suit isn't CGI.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: In previous Spider-Man, I don't know if all of them, but several of them, the suit was always CGI'd onto him.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_03: That's bananas.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it looked I did not know that.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: And in this, the suit looks great.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it looks like a suit.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not like the nanotech stuff, I think, was great when he was in Avengers films.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, made him feel like he was part of those films.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm so glad that it's just a guy in a suit.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's a high-tech suit, but it's a guy in a suit.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it looks so good.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: It looks so lived in, and it makes him look extra dorky in the scenes where he keeps the suit on.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, where he's like walking through an office building and you're like, you look so dumb.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that's dumb in a good way.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: So dumb in a very good way.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: And one of the things I loved about this movie is that it's the first one that really felt like classic Spider-Man's a loser that nobody likes, and he's all alone and he's doing his best.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: People like Spider-Man.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's part of Spider-Man.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: The people on the street like him.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: But he doesn't really have friends.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_03: He's a mess.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: He doesn't have Yeah, you're absolutely correct.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's a better way of phrasing it.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I really liked that.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: I liked watching him just kind of be alone and be unhappy.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: Because it felt like the old comics.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: The cameos, to a large extent, worked way better in this than they have in some others.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like when I mean cameos, like I guess that's spoilers, so I won't talk about them.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: We'll talk about, but in general, I feel like this is from the trailer, so it's okay.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like the way that the Punisher is worked into this works really well.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like this is a part of Peter's life rather than hey, let's call in a favor from a guy from another franchise.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like it felt really good.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Their banter was excellent.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: Oh man.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_03: The two of them yelling at each other and their arguments escalating to the point that they were just yelling over the top of each other felt so odd couple, felt so New York.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: I really loved it.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I know, now having researched on the internet, that some people's things they didn't like about this film, and maybe it's things you don't like either.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: I really did.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think the core three cast of Spider-Man, MJ, and Ned uh have really good chemistry and always have.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that is Tom Holland's real life wife and best friend.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Anytime you've got two of the three of them, and when you whenever you've got all three, really good.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like I really enjoyed all of that.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: The acting is good.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Tom Holland really persuaded me that, like everyone said, Tom Holland's a really great actor.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: He did a really good job on this, and he cemented to me.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: I said this during our previous talk about Spider-Man when we were doing trilogies.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think he is the best Spider-Man that's been on screen.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: The best actor to portray Spider-Man.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I really like seeing a mid-20s, late 20s Spider-Man as an adult trying to keep these things all together.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: They did an excellent job with that.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: All the stuff that when Tom Holland said this is what we're trying to do with this movie, all of that worked.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: If you watch the early I I haven't, what is what would he say they were trying to do?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: They want to bring it to a smaller scale, you know, street level Spider-Man, an older, more mature version of this Spider-Man, um, and dealing with like real sort of emotional, deep issues for the character, right?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: And all of that stuff.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: I think it all works.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: I have a couple of quibbles with that, but for the most part, I agree with you as well.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: And just a note on the acting, you see so many complaints now about how Tom Holland and Zendaya are so overexposed and they're in everything.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: And you watch movies like this and you go, Oh, they deserve it.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: They're both fantastic.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they really are.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: They were both really good.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: And John Bernthal is Punisher was wonderful.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: I thought all of the acting in this was pretty great.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: So before we go to spoilers, I feel like we should also call out cinematography-wise, this is some of the best shot that I've ever seen Spider-Man.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: It looks the best of the Spider-Man films in the MCU.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: The Samu Raimi ones, of course, look really great if you like Sam Raimi's style.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: So all right, let's give it a score and then let's move on.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: This is where we're gonna get in trouble.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: This is where we're gonna get people mad at us.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: I loved it.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: But I think I'm going with a seven.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's what I came up with.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I told Emily walking out of the show.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_03: I I would have given it an eight or even a nine on Monday when I saw it.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, would ya?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: But the more I think about it, the more its problems irk me.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: I walked out at a seven.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this is a seven that is balancing a lot of tens and a lot of fives and fours for me.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how it's averaging out.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: The things that I don't like, I really don't like.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: So we are now moving to spoilers.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: This is spoiler time.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Spoilerific.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Go watch the movie.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's worth watching, even if we gave it a seven, and perhaps it will improve.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like maybe Glass Onion improves over time.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's good.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Things happen.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I gotta bring up my biggest gripe.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: My number one biggest gripe is.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: How many movies do we have to have in the MCU about a secret government organization that is trying to weaponize the evil powers of evil things?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: And how many times do we have to have them walk on screen, wink at us, and say, oh, I'm evil.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: I recruited the ninjas from like it was so bad in this that I'm like, oh, they're gonna make, they're gonna play off of that, and these are actually the good guys.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: They're not gonna do that again, like they've done every time, over and over and over again.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like this was the plot of the Avengers movie.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: The first one.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, they're using Hydro Tech.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Can we trust Nick Fury?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like over and over.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_03: One of my big problems is a version of this.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: I'm less bothered that they're going back to this well, over and over, because damage control has always been sketchy and they were so obviously evil from the very beginning.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: But it's just so I'm bothered at how boring it made the first two-thirds of the movie.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like, we know they're the big bad guys.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: It is so obvious before you even come into the theater, if you've watched, like Wonder Man, for example, where they are outright villains, you know damage control is the bad guy, and yet we just have to kind of tread water for an hour and a half.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's such a boring plot.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, like it's so overplayed, and like there's no tension to it.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: It really bothers me how boring that whole thing is.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: Now, in their defense, the government being against superheroes, and especially against the X-Men, is a long-standing foundation of Marvel comics.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do something with it.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Don't do here's a guy that's pertaining to be a good guy that's going to recruit the hero to work for him.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: The hero is going to accidentally go against someone who has, you know, got more complex motivations and then is going to end up saving like it's beat for beat for beat the same plot.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: And to combine that with such a good street level Spider-Man and make me be like, Spider-Man has like the second best Rogues gallery in all of comics, would you say?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Behind Batman?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe first.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: I think that I would.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: I I wouldn't put him above Batman.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: I think the Batman villains take it by a mile.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_03: But the second best.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: Second best.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: I do believe it's Spider-Man.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: And the best you can come up with is a bunch of office dudes who want to lock another X-Men in another box and drain their power.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_03: And they tried to be more interesting by putting the ninjas in.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_03: I hated the ninjas so much.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: Did you?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: They were so dumb.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think they are awesome, but they are completely misplaced because I feel no connection to them.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like our big end fight is with people who have appeared twice in the film.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: And who have no faces, no personalities, and are no emotional weight.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Mind controlled.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like it really undermines the cool moment of I am both, you know, Peter Parker and Spider-Man when he's fighting against people we don't even care about.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: In that whole conversation that he has psychically, Gene Gray is saying, you know, you're weird and different, and you don't fit in with this crowd.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: And right then the movie cut to a reaction shot of a ninja in bright red hanging from a wall, twirling a katana.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, no, he fits in perfectly.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: This is a really dumb line.
• 18:09
  unknown: Yeah.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Let's move on to that one then.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: This wasn't my second biggest problem, but it's a little bit more.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first I want to say my number one biggest problem.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: With your number one.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: Which is that Gene Gray has the dumbest possible number two version of her plan.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: She can control people's minds, she can possess people, she can hop around.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: It would have taken her 10 minutes max to just stand on the corner outside of the damage control building and get all of the information she wanted.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: And instead, in order to make the first two-thirds of the movie seem like they matter, they have her running tanks through the middle and blowing up buildings and doing all this crazy stuff that is overtly pointless.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And they have to bend over backward to pretend it's someone being possessed and not just mind control, which is the first thing that Spider-Man comes up with.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it turns out it is just the mind control.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_03: I did have about a half an hour of despite everyone saying Sadie Sink is obviously Gene Grey, I did have this little bit of like, oh, they might be doing Shadow King.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_03: And that would be so fun.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: When it was revealed as uh Jane Gray, I had partially the reaction they wanted.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh, that's cool.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: And partially the oh, that's dumb.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the that's dumb is what you're thinking of here, where it's I'm like, oh, it's not some cool thing that's mind-hopping.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's Jane Gray mentally controlling people.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: And like, I've never seen her powers have to work like this before, but you can establish it's a new version of the character.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: Even her power set, I was fine with.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: So why can't she just, you know, sit by the parking garage, and as one of those security guys shows up for work, she jumps into his head and from there jumps into some receptionists.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: She's not gonna read his mind.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: She can read the minds of the people she's in.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: So that's my question then.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because I never thought I I walked out going, oh, she's like 12 or 13.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: Does that not help excuse some of this of her being young and coming in?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: A 15-year-old can come up with that because she came up with it.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: In other situations.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_03: She was so good at being the sneaky, I can learn everything I want by mind controlling people during her pursuit of Peter.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's it.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: But like the fact that she didn't need Peter to work for her.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_03: She didn't need to bust Scorpion out of jail.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: She just needed to be a good idea.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Why bust Scorpion out of jail?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: Mind control, one of the people who has access to the computer you're trying to get into, and then look at the computer, done.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um this movie needed them to be able to shield their minds for the whole plot to work.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: There needed to be some mind shielding.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it was so dumb that Punisher's like, I'm gonna go help him.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then Peter, when Manisher gets there, is like, stay 33 feet away.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, run away.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: She's going to get you.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's what she does.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Only I'm immune.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Get out of here, Frank.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, as soon as Frank showed up, we all knew what was going to happen.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: And once again, it's boring if we all know exactly how it's going to play out, and it does.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's nobody in the theater that thought, oh, I bet Frank is useful in this scene.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: I bet Frank is not going to get mind controlled.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: Now, one thing I do have to say that I loved because of how subversive it was.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: The Punisher is a major character in this.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_03: And yet he doesn't solve a single problem with guns or violence.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: And in fact, causes two of the biggest problems in the movie.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: And realizes maybe by the end that Peter is right.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's great.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very Well done character arc.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very well done buddy cop type thing.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like I do get a kind of perverse joy from imagining the hardcore Punisher fans going into this and realizing that it's secretly kind of an anti-gun message.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm going to say yes to that, but I'm also going to agree with Frank a little.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: And this gives me my my second biggest problem.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: We won't go to the third one.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: We'll go to my second biggest problem.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that is that Jean Gray deserved to be shot.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I wish the Punisher had hit her.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: She threw an old man in front of a car.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she killed fun.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: She killed so many people.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: She killed them for fun and cruelty.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: She's a sadist.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: She's a terrible person.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: Now, see, the reason that that worked for me is because it's the first and only time I've seen a Gene Gray on screen that is going to plausibly set up the Dark Phoenix storyline.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: But And I enjoyed that.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: But you're right that Punisher was right about it.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: And Punisher came up with a really good solution.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to find a way to snipe her from outside the city, from outside the bubble that she's in, and I'm going to shoot her in the head.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's actually a good solution.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's where he's right.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: He's not trying to create collateral damage.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: He's wrong in the beginning.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Here he's right.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: One sniper bullet into the brain of the person who is mind controlling probably hundreds of thousands of people.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Causing them to cry and have emotional stuff.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: He's wantonly murdered dozens over the course of the movie.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I hate, this is where I hate.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: I hate that the movie wants us as soon as we realize that it's a teenage girl and her name is Jean Gray, that we're supposed to now treat her like a um misunderstood.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Misunderstood good guy.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: And she's not.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: The first thing they show us in flashback is her and her sister gleefully taking over people's bodies, which I think is an evasion on a level.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't believe actually in the in capital punishment, but what they did in that scene alone should have them in prison.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_03: The way that uh Gene kept looking at the mom playing with her daughter, I thought they are going to show Gene jumping into one of those two people in order to have a mother-daughter experience that she's been denied, and that is gonna be a step even further, a step too far for me.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: And had she done that, I think it would have been unforgivable.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: You don't think mind controlling a man and then having step into the street?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: No, that's what I'm saying.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I'm saying.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: She is absolutely a villain.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: She's unforgivable.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: That is murder of an innocent for your own pleasure.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: She's the Joker.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: She has the exact in fact, Joker has better motivation.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: She is pure evil.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's not irredeemable.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_03: I won't say that she killed that guy for fun.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_03: She definitely killed that guy in order to tease and taunt Spider-Man.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, which is fun for her.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_03: Which I guess, yeah.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like that scene right there, they should not have done that.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: That is some script note should have said, if you want us to have any empathy for her, we have to believe that she is reckless and causing collateral damage to save her sister.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: She is not happily murdering people to make Spider-Man feel bad.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: That he can't protect them.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: So she is worse than any Spider-Man villain that Spider-Man has fought.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't want her to like have a happy ending.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a serious problem for me in the film because as soon as Peter finds out, it's like he's in a different movie.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: He hasn't watched her torment and kill people.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, I gotta get this girl out.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like if this was a serial killer movie and you had been watching cops try to track down a serial killer, and then at the end of Act Two, they found out that the serial killer was murdering people because she was sad her sister died.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you would not immediately love the serial killer.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: And even if you're like, I think damage control is evil and they're gonna do bad things with her, the response is not let's go let her out.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: The response is go to your cop friends and be like, we may have caused a bigger problem.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: If they get access to her powers, this is bad.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: But we have to make sure this psychopath doesn't get out.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: An absolute sociopath with that much power, if they keep that characterization in the inevitable X-Men movies that we get.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: They will be expected to forget that she murdered Callously.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: I guarantee it.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I think you're right, but if they keep it and she is always trouble, yeah, that makes this characterization work for me.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be better.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm more worried about how the movie treats it.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: The movie wants me to care.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: And Spider-Man says, You're not a killer, Gene.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Spider-Man, have you been in the movie?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: I saw her murder someone for fun.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, she is.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: In the tank scene, how many cars did she run over or blow up?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_03: She put an old lady in there.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: Flip upside down.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: She put an old lady in there with a bomb.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: How more evil do you need to be?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: This is what Spider-Man's job is to protect people who strap bombs to old ladies.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the valid criticism that I think a lot of you are going to make, and I will acknowledge you, is that you don't think the movie is saying Gene Gray is right, only that Spider-Man realized that he'd been played and he needs to fix that.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I will say they could have gone that way, but I don't think the film justifies it.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think the film switches a switch as soon as he realizes.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: And watching it, from then on, it's Spider-Man feels he needs to save Gene.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and the movie treats Gene as a victim from that point on.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_03: And that's like get it wrong, she is a victim.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: But she is the movie begins to empathize with her.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Which so uh this is this is just a really big problem for me.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's it knocked it down like two full points.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like I could have forgiven.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we have a weak plot with yet another, but this is an X-Men story.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's how the government is for X-Men.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: You're setting up some cool things, but that one really it's unforgivable to me.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it's amazing I was able to give the movie a seven based on the strength of the performances and the interactions of all the characters with that going on.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: So give me some of your others.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: I've talked too much.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_03: Well, like I said, the ninjas did not work for me at all.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_03: When it was just the montage at the beginning of these are all the suit the villains he's put down.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: I thought, oh great, that's all we're gonna see of the ninjas.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: And then they show up in the office building, yeah, looking as out of place as possible.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_03: Again, just these kind of faceless exoticism kind of yeah.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: And then when they are the big fight at the end, there's absolutely no reason that that needed to be ninjas.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: It could have just been regular guys.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: It would have made the speech that Gene Gray gives make more sense.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: It would have made more internal sense.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I understand the ninjas are in there because there's a significant portion of the audience that is like, oh yeah, Super Spider-Man is gonna fight some ninjas.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Not just some ninjas, they're famous in the comics, right?
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: They also show up in like Daredevil.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: This is to me, it's a nod to the Daredevil fans, if I'm remembering correctly.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: And apparently they were a big villain in one of the shows leading up to this.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: Daredevil.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, not just Daredevil.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: Defenders, they were the main villain of Defenders.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know any of that.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna say in a superhero film, I don't care if there are colorful cool ninjas to make cool scenes.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: But your argument that it would have made Gene's argument better is good because I was gonna get into my number three problem.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: And after this, it's only quibbles.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: But my number three problem is I don't understand Peter's character arc.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Peter has this big moment at the end.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: His hero moment is when he steps out of the hospital and he sees that everyone loves him, which is an absolute zero move from the beginning of the movie when everyone loved him.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: He is a hero, and he doesn't even like stop being a hero that everyone loves part way through.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's just everyone loves Spider-Man from beginning to end.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the actual arc that they were trying to show was Peter Parker comes to terms with the problems he has caused in the past and who he is as a person, and then is able to move on.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't think that they landed that.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: And this is why it's number three.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's not number one or number two.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: But I will expand his arc.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: His arc is work-life balance, as in, like, I don't know how getting the spider DNA manifesting more is a metaphor for that.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe the spider manifesting more is I'm going to expunge Peter Parker and we're only beginning become a superhero.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: But if that's the case, why does the spider recklessly hurt cops?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: And why does embracing the spider at the end make him not recklessly hurt cops anymore?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, here's my theory on this.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: All the stuff, once his body starts changing, they were very, very clearly just redoing Raimi Spider-Man, where it was a metaphor for adolescence and puberty.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: Which A does not make sense when he's mid to late 20s.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I guess just mid-20s.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: What is he in this one?
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: Probably 23.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_03: He's 24.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess he must be.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_03: But it was four years after four years of college.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: So anyway, that didn't really work.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the aggression was heightened testosterone from puberty that they were trying to show.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_03: See, this is then he just overcame it at the end.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_03: Supposedly he's 22.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: And then towards the end of the movie, you know, they have the big I'm both scene.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so that means they are shifting their metaphor from adolescence to reconciling the two parts of yourself.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so they're trying to use the same thing to mean two different things, and it didn't work.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think you just nailed it.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's why if at the end there had been something that made him realize I can be both Spider-Man and they wanted to do Spider-Man 1 Sam Raimi and Spider-Man 2 Sam Raimi, which are two separate arcs and overlap them and do them in one film.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end, when he said, I am both, I actually kind of cocked my head.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: Rather than feeling the cool moment, I'm like, why?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Why now are you both?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: What does it mean happened to change?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Why is embracing the powers not make you a reckless Spider-Man now?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: I I still don't get it.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was a really cool scene, but I just don't get it.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: So all of my problems with this movie are plot problems.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: They're all plot, they're all writing.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_03: I do think the movie was too long.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: I think you could cut a solid 30 minutes out of this movie without losing anything.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_03: I do.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_03: I always want movies to be shorter than they are.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I like them long.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_03: I honestly think maybe 45 minutes could be cut out of this movie.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I think make Jane Gray.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: So here's one of my quick fix to Gene Gray.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: My quick fix is we show her and her sister, as you did.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Jean Gray is experimenting and goes into someone's body, and her sister is the one that says, Hey, we need to be good with these powers.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: We need to be better with this.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: We can't be like mom was.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: We need to be good.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then the cops take her.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: And Jean's like, well, you know, that didn't work for her.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you bring back Marissa Torme for her cool speech, you're good.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: You can echo that.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you can have Jean Gray, who's now seen in Spider-Man's mind, realize taking the advice of being good has led to so much goodness.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: And her sister was right.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: And she can then live on with her sister's legacy and choose to be good.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: You remove her wantonly killing.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: And you add that little tweak, and I'm on board with everything.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and the wanton killing I think is just a symptom of them trying to be cagey about who the villain was.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_03: They were really trying to make you think it was somebody else.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_03: And so they didn't allow her to do the kinds of stuff that would have absolutely sold me on her terrible plans and her terrible execution of those plans.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like if she is trying actively not to get the people hurt.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if she has the guy almost get run over and then jump out of the way and say, Oh crap, I almost killed this guy.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if we get to see some personality instead of just villain monologuing.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: She mind controls the guy and they have rules in there that they shoot anyone who looks mind controlled.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: She gets a few guards killed, and she's like, I can't get in that way.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: They just murder the people, and that's awful.
• 35:42
  unknown: Right?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you want her to be redeemable, make her redeemable.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: She can be reckless driving a tank.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: In a superhero film, we can forgive a person for driving a tank down the street.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_03: Especially if they try to sell us on her being young.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_03: But I mean, Sadie Sink is almost as old as Tom Holland is.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_03: Even though she has an incredibly young face, I never bought her as a teenager and assumed that she was, you know, 20 at least.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: That would help the movie immeasurably.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_03: Fixing that also fixes the this is the same dumb plot we've seen with government organizations a hundred times before, because it's obvious from the beginning who the bad guys are.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, I'm sorry.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_03: It was already obvious.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: They admit that it's obvious.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, internet.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: I know you love this film.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: I know why you love this film.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: All the things we talked about in the first half of the podcast are why you love the film.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: They're really good.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and let me just reiterate to leave a good taste in your mouth.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: The relationship between Peter and Frank was absolutely fantastic.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_03: It was not quite a father-son.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: It was more of a mentor mentee, yes, almost sort of, but also just kind of buddies, you know, an odd couple thing where they both learned a little bit from the other one.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: That was great.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_03: The way to bring back Ned and MJ, I thought worked really well.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't take the easy answer on that one, which is just have, you know, the telepath bring back the memories.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: No, they did the hard way.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: And they give us a little hint that Ned has some muscle memory, which is the exact right amount of maybe there's some way for them to remember, but also showed us them together.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we got the kiss.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_03: We got the line, you know, kissing the maiden doesn't wake her up from her sleep.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_03: That was perfectly echoed and altered by the handshake at the end because the handshake did work where the kiss didn't.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_03: That was great.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_03: So we also got what I think is maybe not the high road, but certainly the tightrope act of having MJ learn the truth and then reject him.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_03: I genuinely didn't think the movie was going to do that.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I loved it.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: It was really well done.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it was great.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: But then you got to see the three of them together and watch her saying, Oh, wait, yeah.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: Something about this is right.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_03: So they both had her do the plausible thing she would actually do.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_03: I have no idea who you are.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not in love with you.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: But then leave the door open for maybe next movie or the movie after.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_03: She will come around again.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_03: Fall in love with him a second one.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: Tom Holland has said he might be done.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure that, you know, actually, he could be done.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like he seems to like playing Spider-Man, but would be okay walking away.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: He seems like one who could say no to the dump truck of money if he doesn't need the dump truck of money because he doesn't.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_03: The dump truck of money is going to be so big.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to be so big.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: And the nice thing about this is people are really talking about his performance, and it did all the things he wanted to do.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think having a Spider-Man movie every four years is probably really good for his career, even as high as his star is right now.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think the advice from all of the professionals, whether he wants to do it artistically or not, would be like you two should really do these Spider-Man movies periodically, as long as you can do them on this level.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's going to be that's kind of the Tom Cruise plan during the 2000s, which was I'm gonna do a Mission Impossible movie every three or four years to fund Magnolia and all these other weird art films that I want to be a part of.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_03: And he eventually stopped doing that and just kind of does Mission Impossible now.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_03: But that was a really good career move for him.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I think Collin could keep it up.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: But certainly saying I'm not sure is good marketing tactic for like everyone at Marvel and Sony's gotta be like, okay, whatever, we just have to keep this going.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: This is the only one that's working.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_03: It is, and it's the only one.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: I saw a funny comment online where somebody said that Sony and Marvel hate each other, but they can't afford the divorce.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: Because they both make so much money off of these.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_03: What I suspect is that in the next movie or the movie after, they do a pass the torch thing.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_03: They'll bring in Miles Morales.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's what he said he wants to do.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, and we'll keep getting Spider-Man movies, but not with an increasingly implausible Tom Holland as young Spider-Man.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to see a separate Miles Morales series and just periodically check in with this Spider-Man doing Spider-Man stuff as he gets older.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: The thing that the comics was never been willing to give us because they have to hit the reset button.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: Just let him get older.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_03: Or you know what else just now occurred to me is Webhead would be super fun.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: Webhead is, you know, one of the many, many, many spider girls that exist, but she is one that Peter Parker specifically takes under his wing to train.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: A night wing type thing.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and if they did a webhead movie, that would be awesome.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we went pretty long on that one, but I think Donald's gonna be happy that we did.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: Donald's just happy that we put his anime girls on camera.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: Melvin.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_03: Melvin and Monica.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_03: So and their trusty sidekick is Zenita.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: In the future, in the future where for some reason, because this is sci-fi, I believe.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: A little bit.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: Some reason giant swords and shirts with no backs make sense for warriors and hot pants.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: Melvin has become a very feminine name.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: It has.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_03: I do want to point out that Monica here does have a back on her shirt, and she is in fact completely covered except for her shoulders.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_03: Long sleeves, covering shirt, but those shoulders, those have to be uncovered.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty well covered anime girls for anime girl figurines.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: So very good.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_03: Good for you, Donald.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_03: The gross ones at home.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_03: How's that, Ben?