Latest / Legally Brunette / Killer Thriller Docu: From Van Life To Missing, America Wanted To Find Her Daughter Gabby Petito

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Killer Thriller Docu: From Van Life To Missing, America Wanted To Find Her Daughter Gabby Petito · Legally Brunette

0:13
Speaker 1: Hi you guys. Welcome back to Killer Thriller Docu edition.
0:16
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Jennifer Fessler, and today we are talking
0:19
Speaker 1: about an episode that carries an incredible amount of weight
0:23
Speaker 1: and heartbreak and importance. Today we are talking about the
0:26
Speaker 1: Netflix documentary American Murder Gabby Potito. We are joined by
0:31
Speaker 1: Nicole Schmidt, the mother of Gabby Patito, whose story captured
0:34
Speaker 1: the attention of millions, including myself, around the world in
0:38
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. Gabby was a twenty two year old
0:41
Speaker 1: travel vlogger documenting a cross county road trip with her fiance,
0:45
Speaker 1: Brian Laundry, when she suddenly disappeared, and what became a
0:48
Speaker 1: missing person's case quickly also became one of the most
0:51
Speaker 1: widely followed true crime stories in recent history. After nationwide
0:55
Speaker 1: searching and NonStop media coverage, Gabby's body was discovered in Wyoming.
1:00
Speaker 1: Investigators determined she had been the victim of a homicide.
1:03
Speaker 1: Since Gabby's death, Nicole has become an advocate for domestic
1:06
Speaker 1: violence awareness and victim support through the Gabby Potito Foundation,
1:10
Speaker 1: working to help other families recognize warning signs and find
1:13
Speaker 1: resources before tragedy strikes. So this one hits a little
1:17
Speaker 1: differently from me because I just remember hearing about it
1:21
Speaker 1: so vividly. It doesn't seem like it was long ago
1:23
Speaker 1: that it happened. And this documentary, this is a tough
1:26
Speaker 1: one to watch. And I am very grateful to have
1:30
Speaker 1: Nicole join us today. Hey, Nikole, Hi, who are you?
1:34
Speaker 1: I'm really really grateful that you are joining us. And
1:38
Speaker 1: I have to tell you, watching the documentary and I've
1:41
Speaker 1: known the story, it doesn't feel like a long ago.
1:44
Speaker 1: Maybe it does to you, for me that it actually happened.
1:46
Speaker 1: And I remember seeing Gabby's beautiful face everywhere, but I
1:50
Speaker 1: wasn't in touch with just her whole. I don't know
1:53
Speaker 1: essence is that the word? Until watching the documentary and
1:56
Speaker 1: already I'm going to get choked up. But your daughter
1:59
Speaker 1: was sunshine. She just was sunshine. I mean, I don't
2:03
Speaker 1: even know. That's what struck me. Maybe you know, as
2:08
Speaker 1: a viewer of it, it's just as a different experience
2:10
Speaker 1: when you're seeing it on the news and I remember
2:14
Speaker 1: hearing her voice. But watching this documentary, watching you guys,
2:17
Speaker 1: and I think you look so much. She looks so
2:19
Speaker 1: much like you, And I'm so very sorry for your loss.
2:24
Speaker 1: There aren't enough words to tell you how sorry that
2:27
Speaker 1: I am, and I'm I'm sure you hear that every day,
2:30
Speaker 1: but anyway, not really anyway, but thank you for joining us.
2:35
Speaker 1: I can't imagine this kind of thing is easy for
2:36
Speaker 1: you to do. Have you been doing a lot of podcasts?
2:40
Speaker 2: I do a few here and there. It's not easy
2:43
Speaker 2: to talk about, but we actually travel around and speak
2:46
Speaker 2: on what happened to Gabby to share her story so
2:49
Speaker 2: others can learn from what happened and hopefully prevent it
2:54
Speaker 2: from happening to others. So yesterday, for example, I was
2:57
Speaker 2: just doing a session on strangulation Crimes against Women conference
3:01
Speaker 2: in Dallas. So these are things that we need to
3:04
Speaker 2: learn and I do feel that it's making a difference.
3:09
Speaker 2: And I love that you called her sunshine because that
3:11
Speaker 2: is exactly what she was. She was a ray of
3:14
Speaker 2: light in our lives and we miss her so very much.
3:17
Speaker 1: It just struck me. It's like she just seemed like
3:19
Speaker 1: that girl who this her smile, like just her voice,
3:26
Speaker 1: the intonations, the sweetness, she'd just like just she just
3:30
Speaker 1: radiated warmth, you know, and which is of course, in
3:35
Speaker 1: part a huge credit to her mother. So she just
3:39
Speaker 1: seemed like a really like a just a really happy,
3:42
Speaker 1: kind young woman and creative and all these other things.
3:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, Gabby was she was tenacious. She wasn't just a sweet,
3:51
Speaker 2: little innocent flower. She had she had a great attitude
3:56
Speaker 2: because if she saw someone being mean to someone else,
3:59
Speaker 2: she would actually stick up for that person.
4:02
Speaker 1: She was totally.
4:03
Speaker 2: Fearless and she would fight for what was right. So
4:06
Speaker 2: she had kind of both sides. She was sweet and gentle,
4:09
Speaker 2: but she was also tough, and I think that just
4:12
Speaker 2: made her really special.
4:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, So watching the documentary, how do you feel about it?
4:18
Speaker 1: How'd you feel about how it portrayed the events and
4:21
Speaker 1: Gabby and I guess and Brian, and how did you
4:23
Speaker 1: feel after watching it?
4:26
Speaker 2: It's really hard to watch. It was really hard to film.
4:30
Speaker 2: It was difficult to do long interviews and send them
4:35
Speaker 2: all the photos and videos. I mean we were basically
4:37
Speaker 2: crying throughout the whole process. But once it was done,
4:41
Speaker 2: we feel like it did its job. It has an
4:45
Speaker 2: educational piece behind it, and it gets young women watching
4:50
Speaker 2: it with their parents and asking questions and starts the
4:53
Speaker 2: conversation about domestic violence. And I really think that in
4:58
Speaker 2: that way it's been used for good and so we're
5:02
Speaker 2: really proud of it, and I'm glad we did it,
5:05
Speaker 2: and I'm glad we got to tell her story.
5:07
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I have a twenty three to soon
5:10
Speaker 1: to be twenty four year old daughter, and it was unfortunately,
5:16
Speaker 1: I guess, but very eye opening to me thinking in
5:19
Speaker 1: terms of like a mother, because I think I don't
5:21
Speaker 1: know how old you are. I'm fifty seven. But thinking
5:24
Speaker 1: about what would I say to Rachel if I didn't
5:28
Speaker 1: know a boy that she was, which has been the
5:30
Speaker 1: case certainly. You know many times she's gone out with
5:32
Speaker 1: boys that I don't know that well, it made me
5:35
Speaker 1: sort of like think to myself, what do I tell
5:38
Speaker 1: her now she's gonna date someone new? And so I
5:41
Speaker 1: guess all of that is good thanks to Gabby, thanks
5:43
Speaker 1: to you know her story and you're sharing it. I mean,
5:46
Speaker 1: I I don't know if any of that brings you comfort.
5:50
Speaker 1: I hope. So, I mean, are there certain memories of
5:52
Speaker 1: her that do bring you comfort? Now? You know, outside
5:55
Speaker 1: of like doing all of this good in the world
5:56
Speaker 1: that you're doing.
5:58
Speaker 2: We absolutely have a lot of great memories. She lived
6:01
Speaker 2: a very full life. She loved to travel. She was
6:05
Speaker 2: the oldest of six. Her dad has two boys, two boys,
6:09
Speaker 2: and I have a boy and two girls, so she
6:13
Speaker 2: had plenty of siblings. And she was an artist. I mean,
6:18
Speaker 2: she was such a fantastic art She could draw her
6:21
Speaker 2: her portrait perfectly, or self portrait. I actually bought her
6:24
Speaker 2: a tattoo gun before she went on the trip, and
6:27
Speaker 2: she gave her brother a tattoo. I told her not
6:31
Speaker 2: to do any humans until she practiced her. But she
6:35
Speaker 2: was a natural, just like I figured she would be.
6:37
Speaker 2: And yeah, I just I just miss spending time with her,
6:42
Speaker 2: laughing with her. She's just she was just an amazing person.
6:47
Speaker 2: But we are grateful. We are so grateful that for
6:50
Speaker 2: that time we had with her. We were also so
6:52
Speaker 2: grateful that after what happened, we did get to find
6:55
Speaker 2: her and bring her home, because we work with a
6:57
Speaker 2: lot of families that don't get to do that. Right.
7:01
Speaker 1: You know, another thing that struck me, I didn't know that,
7:04
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of your ex husband and your
7:07
Speaker 1: husband and your ex husband's wife and all of these
7:10
Speaker 1: people that loved her so much. I myself am I
7:13
Speaker 1: have I've had many step parents, and I think it's
7:18
Speaker 1: an I think it's unusual. Maybe I'm wrong. But I
7:20
Speaker 1: see the love in your husband's voice, in the way
7:23
Speaker 1: that he talked about what happened and her, and then
7:26
Speaker 1: your ex husband's wife who was so flattened by this
7:30
Speaker 1: as well. She was So it seems like your dynamic,
7:33
Speaker 1: the family dynamic, was really good. And I believe you
7:35
Speaker 1: even talked about when you would first split up. You
7:38
Speaker 1: were just it was amicable, right like you got married
7:41
Speaker 1: or you got together very young, you were pregnant from
7:43
Speaker 1: what I remember, But it seems like the four of
7:46
Speaker 1: you have something nice. That's how I like to think
7:48
Speaker 1: about it. At least I'm not, you know. Can you
7:50
Speaker 1: tell me anything more about that?
7:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, Joe and I were twenty years old when
7:55
Speaker 2: we had Gabby. We ended up. He tried to do
8:00
Speaker 2: the normal thing. We got engaged, but about get six
8:05
Speaker 2: months old, when Gabby was six months old, we just
8:08
Speaker 2: we don't know, we were young, we weren't ready to
8:11
Speaker 2: spend our lives together. At that point. We were fine.
8:15
Speaker 2: It wasn't that we were fighting or we didn't like
8:18
Speaker 2: each other. It was really amicable, like you said, and
8:22
Speaker 2: we just decided to part ways. But he stayed very,
8:25
Speaker 2: very active in Gabby's life even as a young dad,
8:29
Speaker 2: I would drop her off over there, and you know so,
8:32
Speaker 2: especially since she could see her grandparents and stuff. And
8:35
Speaker 2: then Tara came into Gabby's life when she was just
8:38
Speaker 2: over one, and so she's been around forever. My husband,
8:43
Speaker 2: Jim came into Gabby's life when she was two and
8:45
Speaker 2: a half. So she's had four parents since she was
8:48
Speaker 2: a baby.
8:49
Speaker 1: That is such a generous thing for you to say
8:51
Speaker 1: as the mother. I mean, I feel like that. Obviously,
8:54
Speaker 1: the four of you loved her. You all just felt
8:57
Speaker 1: like she was the daughter of all four of you.
8:59
Speaker 1: But how wonderful for her. I know, I'm here to
9:02
Speaker 1: tell you and you already know doesn't happen like that
9:04
Speaker 1: all the time. I'm happy. I'm happy for her that
9:07
Speaker 1: she had she got to experience like that kind of
9:09
Speaker 1: love and the siblings, and that there wasn't the chaost
9:12
Speaker 1: I think probably most times comes with divorce.
9:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think she was spoiled a little bit,
9:18
Speaker 2: like if one parent said no, she would try to
9:19
Speaker 2: find one that said yes.
9:21
Speaker 1: Right, but there are four of them, so yes, And.
9:23
Speaker 2: If we all said no, she'd go to her grandparents.
9:25
Speaker 2: She had plenty of those. So yeah, she had a
9:28
Speaker 2: big family lot.
9:29
Speaker 1: Are you guys still able to support each other, do you?
9:32
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, absolutely, So we've actually gotten really close. And
9:36
Speaker 2: after Gabby's service, we started the Gabby Batito Foundation and
9:40
Speaker 2: we've been working together since we started it. And I
9:43
Speaker 2: travel with Tara all the time. I've traveled with Joe.
9:47
Speaker 2: Jim has traveled with Joe and Tara. We've all kind
9:50
Speaker 2: of done things together. It's really been amazing. We have
9:54
Speaker 2: each other to lean on. We all do very different
9:57
Speaker 2: things and the four of us come together. We have
10:01
Speaker 2: different jobs in the foundation. It makes it work. So
10:04
Speaker 2: it just we are so grateful that we have each other.
10:07
Speaker 1: Wow, I am too, So this is I'm all over
10:10
Speaker 1: the place. Please forgive me. But I also I want
10:12
Speaker 1: to know about the siblings and how they're doing.
10:14
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, So my son is twenty two. We
10:21
Speaker 2: never really had a deep conversation about it. I think
10:23
Speaker 2: he has a lot of guilt. And I think that
10:26
Speaker 2: he because he's the older brother, he's the oldest brother.
10:29
Speaker 2: He's younger brother for her, but he's the oldest brother.
10:32
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think when she came up for his graduation,
10:37
Speaker 2: right before she left for the trip, she took her
10:39
Speaker 2: brother TJ on a camping trip as his graduation gift,
10:43
Speaker 2: and it was her, Brian and TJ. And then after
10:47
Speaker 2: everything happened, he thought, why didn't I see anything? Why
10:51
Speaker 2: wouldn't she tell me anything? How come I didn't know?
10:54
Speaker 2: Like he just felt guilty, And I told him that
10:57
Speaker 2: none of us can feel guilty. There was only one
10:59
Speaker 2: person that that was responsible for taking her life. And
11:05
Speaker 2: although if we were educated and we knew, we talk
11:07
Speaker 2: about knowing red flags and that's why we educate students
11:10
Speaker 2: and parents and everybody. Now, we can't take the blame
11:14
Speaker 2: for something that somebody who's evil did to her. And
11:18
Speaker 2: he hid it very well from us. We all thought
11:20
Speaker 2: Brian was.
11:20
Speaker 1: From it, yes, from as a viewer of it, I
11:24
Speaker 1: was waiting to get the like ah, until the signs
11:27
Speaker 1: that were so over, but I was still like, you know,
11:29
Speaker 1: kind of like side eyeing. At the beginning of the documentary,
11:32
Speaker 1: watching their relationship be described and the video and everything
11:36
Speaker 1: on him, I'm like, all right, what am I going
11:37
Speaker 1: to see the evil right come out? And I kept
11:42
Speaker 1: waiting for that moment and it became obviously it did
11:44
Speaker 1: come out, but it was not something that is a mother.
11:46
Speaker 1: I don't think I would have recognized at all. I
11:50
Speaker 1: don't think anybody could have would have. But what did
11:52
Speaker 1: you think of him then when you first met him?
11:55
Speaker 2: Just a nice kid, quiet, just he seemed very kind
12:00
Speaker 2: and very polite. He would, you know, appease the younger
12:06
Speaker 2: sisters by sitting down and drawing with them and stuff.
12:09
Speaker 2: He was just he just seemed like he fit right in.
12:12
Speaker 2: Not your typical narcissist. You know, we hear a lot
12:15
Speaker 2: about abusers being narcissists, and they're loud and they're obnoxious
12:19
Speaker 2: and they want to be the you know, the one
12:21
Speaker 2: in the room that's the smartest person in the room.
12:23
Speaker 2: Ran was not like that. He was very very quiet.
12:26
Speaker 2: So I tell people, don't have this picture in your
12:29
Speaker 2: mind of what you think an abuser looks like, because
12:33
Speaker 2: it could really be anyone, and it could be hiding
12:35
Speaker 2: it very well. And you know, now looking back on
12:40
Speaker 2: text messages and letters they wrote each other, I have
12:43
Speaker 2: all her stuff, so I'm a I was able to
12:47
Speaker 2: sign into her, you know, her iCloud account and look
12:49
Speaker 2: at texts, and I see that he was manipulating her
12:52
Speaker 2: from day one. He definitely tore her down little by
12:58
Speaker 2: little until she didn't even know what was going on anymore.
13:00
Speaker 2: She was confused and she was living in trauma.
13:04
Speaker 1: So you could see it in the documentary. You guys
13:06
Speaker 1: did an unbelievable job, so you can see it. I'm
13:09
Speaker 1: when I first though, when we were first introduced to him,
13:12
Speaker 1: it's very understandable, at least from my point of view.
13:16
Speaker 1: I couldn't like, this kid is going to turn out
13:19
Speaker 1: to be so evil. It was very like I was.
13:23
Speaker 1: But there were things like, for instance, when he called
13:25
Speaker 1: you to tell you that she was hanging around with
13:27
Speaker 1: bad people. Yeah, that was especially with what we know now,
13:31
Speaker 1: but like that was just so messed up.
13:34
Speaker 2: And I believed him.
13:35
Speaker 1: You did. You thought he was being sincere, and.
13:38
Speaker 2: I thought he was worried about her. He sounded concerned.
13:41
Speaker 2: He said that this one person she was hanging out
13:43
Speaker 2: with I believe it was at Taco Bell when she
13:45
Speaker 2: was working at Taco Bell, that the people there were
13:48
Speaker 2: bad influence, and he thought that they were into drugs
13:52
Speaker 2: and he was concerned for her. And I did call
13:56
Speaker 2: her and I was like, Gabby, what's going on? Who
13:59
Speaker 2: are you hanging out with? Brian seems really worried about you.
14:01
Speaker 2: And she got really upset, and she was like, I
14:05
Speaker 2: can't believe you would believe him, but I didn't have
14:08
Speaker 2: any reason not to, and I wasn't there, And he
14:11
Speaker 2: made it sound so sincere, like he was really really
14:15
Speaker 2: concerned and worried about her. But I've seen the text
14:18
Speaker 2: messages in response to that. He said, your mom is
14:21
Speaker 2: so stupid. I told her not to tell you that
14:23
Speaker 2: I called so Yeah, So that was the other side
14:27
Speaker 2: of him that I wasn't seeing at the time.
14:30
Speaker 1: How do you, like, how do you as a mom
14:33
Speaker 1: know that that's going on? I don't so like looking
14:36
Speaker 1: back at it now, you know, it feels like to
14:40
Speaker 1: me that it would be absolutely impossible. I'm trying to Yeah,
14:42
Speaker 1: I keep trying to put myself as a mother in
14:44
Speaker 1: your shoes and imagine some boy that Rachel was my
14:47
Speaker 1: daughter was seeing and getting that text, Like should that
14:51
Speaker 1: have been a warning sign to me? Like? What do
14:53
Speaker 1: you do with that information? To me, I just would
14:54
Speaker 1: have said, Rachel, who are you hanging out with? It
14:57
Speaker 1: seems so caring of the boyfriend?
15:00
Speaker 2: Right, It's hard to discern at the time, but I
15:04
Speaker 2: think that that was his way of trying to create
15:07
Speaker 2: a distance between the two of us. They tried to
15:11
Speaker 2: isolate you from your support system. And Gabby and I
15:14
Speaker 2: were so close, so we would talk all the time.
15:17
Speaker 2: That he didn't want that anymore, and he was doing
15:19
Speaker 2: anything in his power to prevent her from telling me
15:23
Speaker 2: things that were going on, because I think he was
15:25
Speaker 2: afraid that she was going to disclose, but she did not.
15:31
Speaker 2: She never specifically said anything. But looking back, since I've
15:35
Speaker 2: learned about domestic violence and the patterns, I did see
15:39
Speaker 2: red flags. I just didn't know what they were. I
15:41
Speaker 2: didn't know what red flags looked like, Yeah, how could you? Yeah,
15:45
Speaker 2: we're not educated. We don't know. You don't know what
15:48
Speaker 2: you don't know?
15:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know. But it's interesting because watching the
15:52
Speaker 1: video from Moab, that was yeah, way eye opening, right,
15:57
Speaker 1: because like all of a sudden, it's like, wait a second,
15:59
Speaker 1: this guy's good, Like look at him doing his thing,
16:03
Speaker 1: and I don't know, I mean the first time you
16:06
Speaker 1: saw that, how was that for? Awful? Obviously was awful,
16:10
Speaker 1: but like, yeah, I mean did you see things in that?
16:14
Speaker 1: Did things become like wow, he really he was good
16:17
Speaker 1: at this at manipulation and it lying and it you know.
16:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, the first time I saw it was with the
16:24
Speaker 2: rest of the world when it was released.
16:26
Speaker 1: Seriously, Yeah, it.
16:27
Speaker 2: Was while she was missing, and I knew that there
16:32
Speaker 2: was a police stop that day, and I knew they
16:34
Speaker 2: had an argument because I talked to her that day,
16:38
Speaker 2: But not until I saw the bodycam footage that I
16:40
Speaker 2: knew what really happened. And I was shocked. And now
16:45
Speaker 2: I use that video for training. Police officers use it
16:48
Speaker 2: for training. I watch it now and I find something
16:51
Speaker 2: new every time. And I could see every every marker
16:56
Speaker 2: of domestic violence. The patterns are in that video alone,
16:59
Speaker 2: and that's why it's so good for training.
17:01
Speaker 1: Please tell me, please, please tell me about some of
17:04
Speaker 1: those well.
17:05
Speaker 2: So the way that he blames her and flips it
17:10
Speaker 2: around so quickly and she's apologizing. She says, I'm.
17:12
Speaker 1: Sorry start breaking.
17:14
Speaker 2: First thing she says, right like, what are you sorry for?
17:17
Speaker 2: Awful when he says she grabbed the steering wheel, and
17:20
Speaker 2: she says She later says, I did not grab the
17:22
Speaker 2: steering wheel, but yet she's taking responsibility for other things.
17:25
Speaker 2: Being honest, I did not grab the steering wheel. He
17:29
Speaker 2: blamed her for, you know, the car swerving because of that,
17:33
Speaker 2: he had marks on him. He was calm, she was erratic.
17:37
Speaker 2: Look at her body language, and those are all red flags. Yeah,
17:41
Speaker 2: they should have not only used the clues of her
17:45
Speaker 2: body language, but the things that she said, like he
17:49
Speaker 2: grabbed my face, that's a very controlling behavior. That that
17:53
Speaker 2: behavior is him telling Gabby I can take control of you.
17:59
Speaker 2: And also is an indication of prior strangulation. Any kind
18:05
Speaker 2: of facial airway, neck touching is a clue that that
18:09
Speaker 2: he's a strangler. She did disclose to her friend Rose
18:14
Speaker 2: that he did strangle prior and that he enjoyed it.
18:18
Speaker 2: I'm gonna throw up, may Gabby uncomfortable? He used sexual
18:22
Speaker 2: strangulation as a way to desensitize her from knowing that
18:26
Speaker 2: it was something that he could use to stop her.
18:29
Speaker 1: Was that in the documentary, Nicole, I don't know. Did
18:31
Speaker 1: I just block it out?
18:33
Speaker 2: I feel like I don't remember if I mentioned it
18:35
Speaker 2: or not. That's just so yeah, I I honestly only
18:39
Speaker 2: watched the documentary once and I sure I still blocked
18:43
Speaker 2: it out. So yeah, it's hard for me.
18:45
Speaker 1: I might have blocked it out myself.
18:47
Speaker 2: But yeah, and there's a lot there's the fury.
18:50
Speaker 1: Of hearing that the nine one one call and thinking
18:53
Speaker 1: that he's hitting her. What is this is not? Like,
18:59
Speaker 1: how in the world do you get a I'm sure
19:02
Speaker 1: this is obviously one of the banes of your existence.
19:05
Speaker 1: But how is it possible they got that call and
19:08
Speaker 1: did not immediately protect your daughter? I don't know, but that.
19:14
Speaker 2: Was a lot of reasons. First of all, that nine
19:17
Speaker 2: on one caller, I always praise him because a lot
19:20
Speaker 2: of people look away, and he actually did too.
19:22
Speaker 1: I thought that too.
19:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was fantastic. He had every detail. And that
19:29
Speaker 2: day when they pulled them over, they were supposed to
19:34
Speaker 2: do certain things. As a domestic call, somebody was supposed
19:38
Speaker 2: to get arrested. They were all supposed to supposed to
19:40
Speaker 2: use a lethality assessment, which is basically asking questions to
19:44
Speaker 2: find out if somebody's at risk of being killed by
19:48
Speaker 2: their partner. But they labeled Brian the victim pretty quickly
19:55
Speaker 2: and saw that. Yeah, he says multiple times in the
19:58
Speaker 2: video that she's maybe one hundred pounds, soaking wet, and
20:02
Speaker 2: she's this tiny little thing, and it's just it confuses
20:08
Speaker 2: me with all the details that she gave them, even
20:11
Speaker 2: though she didn't say and a lot of people think
20:14
Speaker 2: a victims should say. I am being abused straight out.
20:17
Speaker 2: They're not going to say that they should have used
20:20
Speaker 2: their knowledge of the pattern. And they definitely knew the pattern,
20:23
Speaker 2: because Officer Pratt says in the video, these women go
20:28
Speaker 2: back time and time again and they end up getting killed.
20:30
Speaker 2: He says that himself in the video, So he knew
20:33
Speaker 2: what was going on. He knows the pattern, He saw
20:36
Speaker 2: the pattern. But for some reason they what reason?
20:39
Speaker 1: What reason do you think? Well?
20:41
Speaker 2: I think one reason is there's an alleged history of
20:44
Speaker 2: abuse from the officer. The officer has a history from
20:48
Speaker 2: what we've heard through our lawyers and such, and I
20:54
Speaker 2: think there's a bias there. And then these abusers are
20:57
Speaker 2: good at manipulating. Look at Brian, he was calm, He
21:00
Speaker 2: wasn't the one freaking out. He said that Gabby was crazy.
21:04
Speaker 2: And now you have these men who believe these things
21:06
Speaker 2: already inherently as men, they think women are crazy. So
21:09
Speaker 2: then they talk about that in the video as well.
21:12
Speaker 2: And then so Gabby's automatically labeled the one that attacked Brian,
21:16
Speaker 2: she's crazy. And the second witness that they spoke to
21:22
Speaker 2: saw Gabby retaliating and said that he saw Gabby look
21:26
Speaker 2: like she was hitting Brian. So the officer spoke to
21:29
Speaker 2: that witness, but he was leading the witness saying, so
21:34
Speaker 2: this is what you saw? Is this what you saw?
21:37
Speaker 2: And he was describing it, and the witness says, yeah,
21:39
Speaker 2: that sounds about right. You know, just the whole thing
21:43
Speaker 2: was horrible.
21:45
Speaker 1: Hard the female there were female officers obviously on the
21:48
Speaker 1: scene as well.
21:49
Speaker 2: I have nothing to say about her. That was completely useless.
21:53
Speaker 2: She she could have give given Gabby a trauma informed
21:58
Speaker 2: interview and said, can you tell me more about what
22:01
Speaker 2: happened today. I want to be a safe place for you.
22:04
Speaker 2: Why don't we talk about this?
22:06
Speaker 1: She did not.
22:07
Speaker 2: She told Gabby that you can't be having these little arguments.
22:12
Speaker 2: It's it's silly of you and it's ridiculous and basically
22:15
Speaker 2: blaming her. And you know, at that point, Gabby was
22:18
Speaker 2: probably just defeated and said, all right, it's my fault
22:21
Speaker 2: and I'm going to take the blame for it. So, yeah, Hard.
22:26
Speaker 1: Is watching it. I don't know why. But when she
22:30
Speaker 1: said I just can I just talk to my mom?
22:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, took my heart. She did get to talk
22:38
Speaker 2: to her dad briefly during the call. I think he
22:41
Speaker 2: called right before she got to call me. They did
22:44
Speaker 2: give her her phone and then I spoke to her
22:47
Speaker 2: after the call.
22:48
Speaker 1: What does she say to you?
22:50
Speaker 2: She what most victims do. Now we know, she minimized everything.
22:56
Speaker 2: I was having a bad morning. It was all my fault.
22:59
Speaker 2: I'm so so sorry, sorry, I worried you. I shouldn't
23:01
Speaker 2: have sent you that picture, the picture where the blood
23:04
Speaker 2: smear on her eye. She said, I scratched Brian and
23:07
Speaker 2: he wiped the blood on me, and that it was
23:09
Speaker 2: just I'm so sorry, and you know, just minimize the
23:13
Speaker 2: whole thing. And of course I didn't know that what
23:17
Speaker 2: she looked like in that video because I hadn't seen it,
23:20
Speaker 2: so I didn't know what was really going on. I
23:22
Speaker 2: only could believe what she told me.
23:24
Speaker 1: You think she was minimizing it to herself? Was there
23:27
Speaker 1: any Obviously she was scared, she was under the influence
23:31
Speaker 1: of this you know, maniac who was playing these crazy
23:34
Speaker 1: mind games with her. I mean, I I don't know.
23:38
Speaker 1: I just I wonder if in the middle of her
23:42
Speaker 1: fear and her terror and all of that, because they
23:45
Speaker 1: got from what I remember, they they didn't wait twenty
23:48
Speaker 1: four hours to you know, reconvene, like they got back together,
23:52
Speaker 1: right wait, they didn't got back at that evening. They
23:54
Speaker 1: got back in the van and took off. Okay, so
23:59
Speaker 1: do you feel like I think you're probably gonna say
24:02
Speaker 1: yes to this, but like, the system just failed Gabby.
24:04
Speaker 2: The system failed Gabby, and the system fails victims and
24:08
Speaker 2: survivors time and time again. And it's it's at a
24:12
Speaker 2: point now where something needs to change because the numbers
24:16
Speaker 2: of women, and I will I will say it's mostly women.
24:19
Speaker 2: And there are men that are abused, yes, but it's
24:23
Speaker 2: mostly women. It's about six a day in our country
24:25
Speaker 2: on out.
24:26
Speaker 1: Six a day.
24:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, murdered six a day on average. Yeah, you might
24:31
Speaker 2: have a day where there's two, but you might have
24:32
Speaker 2: a day with eight eight, right, So it's an average.
24:35
Speaker 2: And I put out a new report chilling it was
24:39
Speaker 2: one in four. Now it's one in three. And I
24:41
Speaker 2: don't like statistics because it's underreported. So a lot of
24:45
Speaker 2: people aren't even reporting what's going on. But as far
24:49
Speaker 2: as homicides go, women are being killed constantly and we're
24:56
Speaker 2: not We're not able to fix this right now with
24:59
Speaker 2: the way things are. We have to do something differently.
25:16
Speaker 1: So what changes are you working on in terms of
25:21
Speaker 1: like getting the police to their protocols and what specifically
25:25
Speaker 1: are you guys right now trying to institute, you know,
25:29
Speaker 1: when nine one one calls happen or police are visiting
25:33
Speaker 1: a scene.
25:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot, it's a whole ecosystem. So it's
25:39
Speaker 2: first of all, my husband started a program for first
25:42
Speaker 2: responders because he was a firefighter EMT for many years
25:45
Speaker 2: and we didn't have training.
25:48
Speaker 1: So he.
25:50
Speaker 2: Trains the people that would be on scene that maybe
25:52
Speaker 2: would be disclosed to But because people don't want to
25:56
Speaker 2: really talk to cops, they're intimidated by them. They don't
26:00
Speaker 2: really talk to you in trauma informed way. Some do,
26:02
Speaker 2: some are trained well, most aren't, So we have we
26:06
Speaker 2: start there. As far as laws go, we want the
26:09
Speaker 2: lethality assessment, which is a questionnaire that is asked on scene,
26:14
Speaker 2: but you have to be trained properly to do.
26:16
Speaker 1: It well kind of questions.
26:19
Speaker 2: So the questions would be something like, has he ever
26:24
Speaker 2: choked you? Before we use the word choked because a
26:26
Speaker 2: lot of people don't use the word strangled. It's a
26:29
Speaker 2: very intimidated word. Has he been out of work for
26:34
Speaker 2: a certain amount of time? Do you have any children?
26:38
Speaker 2: Have they harmed animals? Before you know. There's just there's
26:41
Speaker 2: all kinds of questions, and once you answer yes to
26:45
Speaker 2: a certain amount or certain questions, it labels you as
26:49
Speaker 2: a higher risk and that means we're going to connect
26:52
Speaker 2: you to a victim advocate immediately because you should not
26:56
Speaker 2: be with this person anymore, like we need to get
26:59
Speaker 2: you to an advocate. It's a hard system, but at
27:04
Speaker 2: that level we can change things a little easier. It's
27:07
Speaker 2: then when you get to the courts, you have prosecutors
27:11
Speaker 2: who are trying, but the judges are knocking things down.
27:16
Speaker 2: They're knocking charges down, or the victim recants, and then
27:20
Speaker 2: they drop the whole case because the victim's too scared
27:23
Speaker 2: to testify. So we're trying to help change things where
27:27
Speaker 2: the victim doesn't have to testify in court, because how
27:30
Speaker 2: many homicide victims testify They can't because they're not here.
27:35
Speaker 2: We use evidence, We use evidence to prosecute. So there's
27:39
Speaker 2: many different levels that need to be changed, but the
27:43
Speaker 2: biggest thing is everything needs to be across the board.
27:47
Speaker 2: The United States needs to follow protocol for domestic violence
27:51
Speaker 2: in the same way instead of county by county, state
27:54
Speaker 2: by state. We really are fighting to regulate the way
27:59
Speaker 2: this is dealt with, but also work in prevention, because
28:02
Speaker 2: the only way we're going to prevent make those numbers
28:04
Speaker 2: go down is if we prevent it. So we go
28:07
Speaker 2: to a lot of schools and we talk to the youth,
28:09
Speaker 2: and we want to educate parents and kids and just
28:13
Speaker 2: everybody needs to understand what's going on, how to prevent it,
28:17
Speaker 2: and how to prevent somebody from becoming an abuser or
28:20
Speaker 2: flag those kids that are on that path. We might
28:23
Speaker 2: be able to spot them sooner.
28:26
Speaker 1: Have you gotten reports or people keyed you into things
28:29
Speaker 1: that as a kid, maybe he was going through or
28:31
Speaker 1: that the kind of kid he was.
28:34
Speaker 2: No, I honestly I don't know either. I've heard that
28:37
Speaker 2: he was always quiet in school. He was referred to
28:40
Speaker 2: as the weird friend by his friend groups. They liked him,
28:43
Speaker 2: but like he was the weird friend. So I don't
28:47
Speaker 2: know what the childhood was like. I haven't. We had
28:51
Speaker 2: heard that the family came out publicly at some point
28:56
Speaker 2: because the media was trying to contact them and they said,
28:58
Speaker 2: we don't talk to them. They're black sheep, they don't
29:01
Speaker 2: we haven't talked to them in years.
29:03
Speaker 1: Wait, the family, so the extended family didn't talk to Brian.
29:06
Speaker 2: So you love the laundries.
29:08
Speaker 1: Yeah.
29:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, so apparently they were kind of just secluded from
29:12
Speaker 2: the rest of the family, so nobody really had any
29:14
Speaker 2: information on that.
29:16
Speaker 1: Yeah. I have to say that Gabby's ex boyfriend that
29:22
Speaker 1: was so like just he was so touching and Jackson
29:25
Speaker 1: to get to know him a little bit, and the
29:27
Speaker 1: way that he obviously loved your daughter. And I wonder
29:31
Speaker 1: you guys still in touch's what a doll?
29:34
Speaker 2: Yes, he calls me mom, he says, how are you Yeah?
29:37
Speaker 1: Are you serious?
29:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, every once in a while he sends me a
29:40
Speaker 2: text and he's just he's such a great person.
29:44
Speaker 1: What I mean. And obviously she knew that they were young,
29:48
Speaker 1: they broke up and all of that is always, you know,
29:50
Speaker 1: very dramatic when you're young, but that she knew that
29:53
Speaker 1: he would be there for her.
29:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a good friend.
29:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, tell me a little bit about what it was
30:17
Speaker 1: like in terms of when it was all going down
30:19
Speaker 1: and you were looking for Gabby and the whole world
30:22
Speaker 1: was watching was did you feel supported or did it
30:25
Speaker 1: make it even harder?
30:27
Speaker 2: No, When your loved one, especially your child, is missing,
30:31
Speaker 2: you want that attention. You want the whole world looking
30:33
Speaker 2: for them, and that's exactly what we got. I don't
30:36
Speaker 2: know how we got that. I mean, we did the
30:37
Speaker 2: hard work. I mean the first thing I did was
30:40
Speaker 2: blast Facebook. Every person I had as a contact, I
30:45
Speaker 2: blasted them out with my daughter's missing, Please help, and
30:48
Speaker 2: it just spread like wildfire from their media caught onto
30:52
Speaker 2: it quickly. We couldn't believe how many people fell in
30:58
Speaker 2: love with Gabby and want to help find her. And
31:03
Speaker 2: you know, even seeing the people at the laundry's house
31:07
Speaker 2: screaming like where's Babby? That was really emotional for us.
31:11
Speaker 2: I did I didn't really support that. I thought it
31:13
Speaker 2: was a little bit I was. I was unbelievable.
31:17
Speaker 1: But why did you support it?
31:19
Speaker 2: I don't know. I just thought, that's not how we're
31:21
Speaker 2: gonna find her necessarily, as screaming at their house, they're
31:24
Speaker 2: not gonna They're not going to come talk to you.
31:26
Speaker 2: So that was kind of, you know, maybe just doing
31:29
Speaker 2: something that is more meaningful, like continuing to share her
31:34
Speaker 2: flyer just at the time, you know, because we were
31:37
Speaker 2: looking for a missing person, so that seemed counterproductive.
31:42
Speaker 1: Well in her face, even before the documentary, you did
31:45
Speaker 1: such a good job her face is burned on my memory.
31:48
Speaker 2: I know she was like, nobody's going to forget me.
31:52
Speaker 2: I'm going to be found and I'm going to change
31:54
Speaker 2: the world. That's That's what I feel like her spirit
31:57
Speaker 2: is doing.
31:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just remarkable. I think it's so I think
32:02
Speaker 1: that's remarkable. I can't imagine that you are the norm.
32:06
Speaker 1: I would think that women that have gone through what
32:08
Speaker 1: you've gone through. I don't know if that there may
32:11
Speaker 1: be the ones women that are so brave and and
32:16
Speaker 1: I don't know that I could ever be like that.
32:18
Speaker 1: I don't I can't imagine that you have so much
32:20
Speaker 1: strength that you're you're able to not only see things
32:22
Speaker 1: like that, but then use things to change the word,
32:24
Speaker 1: use it to change the world what you've been through
32:26
Speaker 1: as opposed to I guess I don't know what the
32:28
Speaker 1: alternatives are. You have other kids, you have a life,
32:30
Speaker 1: you have a loving husband, but must I would think
32:33
Speaker 1: it'd be very hard not to curl up into a ball.
32:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes I need to do that. I do take
32:38
Speaker 2: those moments when I need to take a break. I
32:42
Speaker 2: think that on a spiritual level, Gabby chows us for this,
32:46
Speaker 2: and there's a higher purpose to all of this.
32:50
Speaker 1: I have to believe that.
32:52
Speaker 2: And I think that you don't really know what you're
32:56
Speaker 2: going to do until something happens. I would have never
33:00
Speaker 2: thought that I could stand in front of a crowd of,
33:02
Speaker 2: you know, three thousand people and talk about her story
33:06
Speaker 2: and domestic violence and hopes to save others. I never
33:10
Speaker 2: thought I could do that. I never thought I could
33:11
Speaker 2: get in front of a camera and film a documentary.
33:14
Speaker 2: But I do it because we get the stories that say,
33:18
Speaker 2: because of Gabby, I'm alive today. Because of Gabby, my
33:23
Speaker 2: kids are still here. And because of Gabby, I became
33:27
Speaker 2: a social worker so I could help, Like, there's just
33:29
Speaker 2: so many positive outcomes that I have to believe that
33:33
Speaker 2: this is for the greater good, and that's why I'm
33:35
Speaker 2: going to keep going and doing what we're doing.
33:38
Speaker 1: I absolutely love that picturing. Like I don't know why,
33:41
Speaker 1: pot just be a great title of a podcast, But
33:43
Speaker 1: because of Gabby, yeah, you know, and all of these
33:47
Speaker 1: people who are whose lives are being served by what
33:51
Speaker 1: she went through. I know that. Also there was a
33:54
Speaker 1: lot about other bodies being found in the search for Gabby, right, yeah,
34:00
Speaker 1: a little bit lots right from what I I believe it.
34:03
Speaker 2: Was about seven from the initial search throughout that week,
34:08
Speaker 2: it was about eight days until we found her. Yeah,
34:12
Speaker 2: it was. It was unbelievable. I was happy that there
34:16
Speaker 2: was some resolution brought to families who were looking for
34:19
Speaker 2: their missing loved ones. So Gabby was like, thanks, Gab,
34:23
Speaker 2: you know your help these families. I think fifty cent
34:27
Speaker 2: put out a tweet. They're like, this little girl's fine
34:30
Speaker 2: in all these missing persons, like really going on, And yeah,
34:34
Speaker 2: it was just so weird, such a weird time. It's
34:37
Speaker 2: very much a blur in our heads. Those eight days
34:40
Speaker 2: were traumatizing and shocking, and we didn't sleep, we didn't eat.
34:46
Speaker 2: It was it was awful. I knew. I knew the
34:51
Speaker 2: call was coming. I knew Brian took her life as
34:53
Speaker 2: a mother. I knew because the second the detective told
34:57
Speaker 2: me he was home with the van, I knew. Oh God,
35:01
Speaker 2: But we are so lucky that she was able to
35:05
Speaker 2: be found, because I can't imagine between Wyoming and Florida.
35:11
Speaker 1: He could have.
35:13
Speaker 2: Put her anywhere, he could have taken her anywhere, and
35:16
Speaker 2: we would have never found her. So I'm just I'm
35:19
Speaker 2: grateful for the outcome that it's been, and I'm also
35:23
Speaker 2: perfectly fine with the fact that he's not here anymore.
35:27
Speaker 1: Who cares? But I am too, I know what I
35:29
Speaker 1: too cares what I think. But I'm okay with the
35:31
Speaker 1: two questions that interviewers maybe don't ask you that you
35:34
Speaker 1: wish that they would, or anything you wish that they
35:38
Speaker 1: would address.
35:40
Speaker 2: No, I think it's really it's very much all the same.
35:44
Speaker 2: Where we have to talk about, you know, domestic violence,
35:51
Speaker 2: how much of an issue and epidemic that it is,
35:54
Speaker 2: and femicide and how many women are being.
35:57
Speaker 1: Killed femicide is as well. I don't what is that
36:00
Speaker 1: so femicize?
36:00
Speaker 2: Is just that it's basically women are targeted homicide.
36:06
Speaker 1: It's more you're saying.
36:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's really it's women focused. Right, Women are
36:11
Speaker 2: being killed when you walk to your car at night,
36:13
Speaker 2: versus when a man walks to his cart night.
36:17
Speaker 1: Us.
36:17
Speaker 2: As women, we're thinking, I gotta get my key out,
36:19
Speaker 2: I gotta be aware of my surroundings. I'm worried it's
36:23
Speaker 2: somebody that attack me tonight when I'm walking out from
36:26
Speaker 2: the mall to my car. But a man's thinking about, oh,
36:28
Speaker 2: I got to go home and catch the football game,
36:30
Speaker 2: you know, like they're not worried. So men need to
36:33
Speaker 2: step up and do more to help protect women. And
36:38
Speaker 2: you know, domestic violence isn't going to even come close
36:40
Speaker 2: to ending until men say it does because they're the
36:42
Speaker 2: ones killing. So men have to call out other men.
36:47
Speaker 2: The good men have to take accountability and call out
36:53
Speaker 2: the ones that are doing it instead of just turning
36:55
Speaker 2: a blind eye and allowing the behaviors to happen. Protect women.
37:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to talk about the tour that you're
37:04
Speaker 1: going on where there are a lot of good men. Yeah,
37:06
Speaker 1: going on that tour with you. But I'm just going
37:09
Speaker 1: to quickly say because you said it, and then I
37:11
Speaker 1: agree that you're glad that Brian is not in this
37:14
Speaker 1: world anymore. Is there any part of you that would
37:17
Speaker 1: that feels like you would have liked to have seen him,
37:21
Speaker 1: you know, get the justice would have been served, or
37:26
Speaker 1: you could have asked questions at least is there do
37:28
Speaker 1: you have that still?
37:29
Speaker 2: I had mixed emotions in the beginning where I was like,
37:32
Speaker 2: I wanted him to, you know, be punished for this.
37:37
Speaker 2: I wanted him to sit and rotten jail and think
37:39
Speaker 2: about what he did for the rest of his life.
37:41
Speaker 2: But then I thought, Wow, imagine having to go through
37:43
Speaker 2: that trial, possibly seeing pictures, you know, of the crime
37:47
Speaker 2: scene and my daughter, and that would have been an
37:49
Speaker 2: awful experience. So I think it was just meant to be,
37:55
Speaker 2: and I'm really glad that we didn't have to go
37:58
Speaker 2: through all that. Glad he's not here anymore. I think
38:01
Speaker 2: that he's in a place where he'll never get any
38:06
Speaker 2: anywhere near Gabby. She's in a higher realm. She's she's
38:10
Speaker 2: a beautiful light and she's shining her light down all
38:14
Speaker 2: the time. You know, people all over this world are
38:16
Speaker 2: touched by her and her story and she's saving lives
38:20
Speaker 2: and I'm just so proud of her.
38:22
Speaker 1: Tell me about the tour, please and tell me where
38:26
Speaker 1: our listeners can go to get tickets, and just who's
38:29
Speaker 1: going to be with you. I know a little bit
38:31
Speaker 1: because I've actually interviewed well, Denise Hutchins, who's the most
38:35
Speaker 1: incredible woman.
38:37
Speaker 2: Denise and Aaron are amazing. I was with them yesterday.
38:42
Speaker 2: Actually this tour, we weren't sure about it, right, We
38:46
Speaker 2: talked about doing this tour and sitting in front in
38:49
Speaker 2: front of an audience live with with John Ramsey. Yeah,
38:54
Speaker 2: don Bine, Ramsey's dad and Denise Huskins and Aaron and
39:02
Speaker 2: you know, just these people and the dad Sean from
39:05
Speaker 2: unknown number, the father who is completely I mean, I
39:09
Speaker 2: can't even believe that that happened to his daughter and
39:12
Speaker 2: that family. I just we are true crime stories. To
39:17
Speaker 2: the rest of the world. We are, you know, a
39:19
Speaker 2: Netflix documentary or somebody they've seen on the news, and
39:23
Speaker 2: we're tragedies. But to get in front of people that
39:28
Speaker 2: intimately in a smaller theater setting and talking to them
39:33
Speaker 2: so they could see that we're real people, we're real families,
39:37
Speaker 2: that these can happen to anyone. These things are not
39:39
Speaker 2: things that just happen to us. They're going to happen
39:41
Speaker 2: to anyone, and we're just out there telling our stories
39:45
Speaker 2: to try and prevent that from happening. But we also
39:47
Speaker 2: want to connect with them on a level to show
39:51
Speaker 2: them that, you know, we're people. You know, John Ramsey
39:55
Speaker 2: gets so much hate, so much hate, and he is
39:59
Speaker 2: such a good man, and I just hate seeing that.
40:03
Speaker 2: So maybe connecting with us on that level will make
40:09
Speaker 2: us look a little different and people will see us
40:13
Speaker 2: in a different lens than just a Netflix documentary. As
40:19
Speaker 2: far as tickets go, I believe it's through the Crime
40:21
Speaker 2: Unfiltered website. They have social media pages and stuff. I
40:27
Speaker 2: know they're moving the first two dates to the fall
40:30
Speaker 2: because more people can come in the fall, but the
40:33
Speaker 2: second the second dates are still available in June.
40:37
Speaker 1: So interesting doing what I've been doing with these speaking
40:40
Speaker 1: to the people like you who are so extraordinary. I mean,
40:44
Speaker 1: you are period. There's no like, it's not just I
40:46
Speaker 1: cannot believe how you have channeled all of your grief.
40:50
Speaker 1: It is quite extraordinary and remarkable. But and I think
40:54
Speaker 1: the tour is I think it's incredible that you guys
40:56
Speaker 1: are going to all be together, and I mean I imagine
40:59
Speaker 1: all of you just becoming so close right just through
41:02
Speaker 1: all of this.
41:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a connection with people who understand. Yeah, And
41:13
Speaker 2: I just adored Denise. She is such a beautiful soul
41:19
Speaker 2: and her message is so important, and what happened to
41:23
Speaker 2: her and her husband, they did not deserve that.
41:26
Speaker 1: To say the least.
41:28
Speaker 2: I think it's great to tell our stories and seeing
41:32
Speaker 2: how it's taken differently in a more intimate setting where
41:35
Speaker 2: people are right there in front of us and able
41:38
Speaker 2: to talk to us and ask questions and meet us
41:41
Speaker 2: in person. I think it'll just be different.
41:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you are an inspiration, my friend, and I
41:48
Speaker 1: keep saying it. I can't help it. I am so
41:50
Speaker 1: grateful that you even would join me and talk about Gabby.
41:54
Speaker 1: And again she's like, that gorgeous face of hers is
41:57
Speaker 1: going to be burned. It's burned into my brain, hers
42:00
Speaker 1: and yours both. So really, just really thank you for
42:04
Speaker 1: spending this time with us, and we are thinking of
42:07
Speaker 1: you and praying for you and always always always thinking
42:09
Speaker 1: of Gabby.
42:10
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, appreciate you