Latest / Martyr's Row / Ep. 1 - Why Do We Fear the Return of Jesus?

Transcript

Ep. 1 - Why Do We Fear the Return of Jesus? · Martyr's Row

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Christ our Savior, in the Gospel of St. Matthew,
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hearing the confession of Simon Peter, who, first
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of all other, openly acknowledged him to be the
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Son of God and perceiving the secret hand of
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his Father therein, called him, alluding to his
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name, a rock, upon which rock he would build
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his church so strong that the gates of hell should
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not prevail against it. In which words three
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things are to be noted. First, that Christ will
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have a church in this world. Secondly, that the
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same church should mightily be impugned not only
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by the world, but also by the uttermost strength
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and powers of all hell. And thirdly, that the
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same church notwithstanding the utmost of the
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devil and all his malice should continue. Which
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prophecy of Christ we see wonderfully to be verified?
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In so much that the whole course of the church
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to this day may seem nothing else but a verifying
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of the said prophecy. First, that Christ has
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set up a church needeth no declaration. Secondly,
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What force of princes, kings, monarchs, governors,
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and rulers of this world, with their subjects
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publicly and privately, with all their strength
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and cunning, have bent themselves against this
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church? And thirdly, how the said church, all
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this notwithstanding, hath yet endured and holden
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its own. declaration whereof. I have addressed
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this present history to the end, first, that
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the wonderful works of God in His Church might
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appear to His glory, also that the continuance
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and proceedings of the Church, from time to time
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being set forth, more knowledge and experience
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may rebound, thereby, to the prophet of the reader
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and edification of Christian faith. So welcome.
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This is our first episode. Yeah And you know,
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I feel like for most podcasts and and shows and
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stuff They have a theme song something that kind
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of like let's you will know like what's happening
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and like bring it in Yeah, and we don't have
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that no, but I think that we should play around
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with it. Yeah I think we need to get one. Yeah,
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so we should work on that. I don't see why we
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shouldn't do it right now I think we should try
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it right now ready All right, so we're developing
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a theme song You ready for it? Let's go. Let's
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see what we have. Let's come. Let's come into
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it and see if we have Something if we have something
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let's develop it as we go. Yeah This is what
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we'll do the first try So like a four to one
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little minor. Yeah, take us out of the campfire.
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Yeah So we'll have to have a lot of discussions
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about like lyric content. And then should we
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add, maybe we can add verses later on. Oh, not
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that chord to this one. I mean, why not? I think
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we'd be fine. Yeah, over the next couple episodes.
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Or it could be something that like, it just,
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I don't know. Until we find something we land
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on. To be honest though, this like, this may
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or may not fit this well. Yeah. So I'm thinking
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about it as you're playing it. I don't know if
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I'm hearing like a harmonica or like an accordion
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or something. Okay. Maybe it is an organ. Actually,
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saying accordion, I feel like that really resonated
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with me. It's like right there, yeah. It really
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does. It's something about the feel of this guitar.
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Yeah. And then I want some low cellos coming
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through. yeah i think it'd be really nice okay
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um maybe like a viola to cut through some of
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those mids yeah all right let's try some lyrics
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yeah let's try and follow this progression a
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little bit something like this We gotta resolve
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it back to that minor here. Resolve to minor.
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That's what we do here. We start on the four,
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we start on the four and we resolve to the minor.
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That's so good. I'm here for it. We gotta bring
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them along. Won't you come along? Yeah Yeah,
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we keep doing that. That's a hard one. Do you
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care about whose name comes first? We should.
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We should. Yeah. Actually, honestly, we don't
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have to. You know why? Because of the rhyme?
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No, because of the order. Oh, that's true. Yeah.
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And I think I owe you one. We'll talk about that.
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We'll get into that too. Oh yeah. There's a lot
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to talk about here. So let's try it again. Maybe
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just sing the octave. So why don't you guys come
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along? You just sing the octave? Yeah. Yeah.
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That's a harmony there. Oh, you can sing the
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melody, I'll mess with Harvey. Yeah, I like your
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voice better on the harmony. You want me to do
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it? Okay, you do the low part. Yeah! Won't you
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come along? Martyrs Row Episode 1 Take 1. Thank
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you very much. Alright, so let's explain. Are
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you ready to explain, Paul? Yes. Three, two,
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one. Hey, Stephen. Hey. I think it's worth telling
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everybody watching or listening to this why your
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name needs to come first. Okay, so Martyrs Row
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with Stephen and Paul. Yes. That's kind of the
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official title. That's our title. Yeah. Yeah.
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Well, that's actually easy and we'll probably
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get into a lot more next week. Yeah. But around
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the next episode, whether that's next week or
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three years from now. Never. Hopefully sooner
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rather than later. Let's go. But but yeah, I
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mean, so that was that was initially and I actually
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hadn't thought about this, but initially you
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asked me a question out of left field one time.
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We were talking and Paul goes, I want to say
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it how you said it. You said, I have a question
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for you. Is it weird as a Steven talking to a
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Paul? And I thought, that's the most like dad
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joke, like theology dense question that like
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if you, There's very few people that would be
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like, I know exactly what you're talking about.
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And it was funny, because on the episode, I can
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watch you figure it out. You can see it in your
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eyes, and you're like, oh! And the reason why
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that's so dense is because you can lead into
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that conversation and then bring that up. I didn't
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lead into it. Like, we might have been talking
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about, like, Snickers or something. So it was
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like, what are we even talking about? What the...
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But the... So my name's Stephen. This is Paul.
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My name's Paul. And the weird thing about that
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is biblically, Paul originally saw persecuted...
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He was one of the... This one led the charge
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on... He was legendary for persecuting Christians.
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And Paul actually ordered the stoning of Stephen,
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who was the first martyr in Fox's Book of Martyrs.
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Which is what we read from, to start this episode
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out. Yes. Yeah, we read from that. And so that's
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actually why. Yeah, so Stephen's the first martyr.
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So that's why my name comes first. Yeah, right
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And then there's redemption in it because Saul
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becomes Paul when he meets with Jesus Yeah, and
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eventually Paul also gets martyred which I think
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is kind of like a beautiful like Underlying arc
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in his in the story of the apostle Paul. Yeah,
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like he starts off as this person who is so zealous
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for the Jewish faith. Yeah, for the law. Yeah,
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for the law, to the point where he's ordering
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the death of Christians. Right. And then he ends
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up converting, becoming just as passionate about
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Christianity and dies for the same faith that
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he was persecuting in the beginning of his story.
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Yeah, if there's one thing we can say about Saul,
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who becomes Paul... whatever he was doing, he
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was gonna be passionate about it. Yeah, he was!
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You know what, Paul, I love that about you. Yeah,
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me too. Oh, I guess I can say it to you. I'll
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send it up for him as Paul is all you need. We're
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not Catholic. No. Shout out to all you Catholics.
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Bless up. Yeah. But but yeah, so martyrs row
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with Stephen and Paul. Yeah Stephen comes first
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because he's the first martyr Yeah, and we read
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you and we initially read to start this episode
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from the the The preface of yeah Fox's book of
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martyrs, which yeah, you want to explain that
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a little bit? Yeah, so for those who don't know
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Fox's book of martyrs a guy named John Fox he
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actually Would he be considered an historian
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in some ways? Yeah, I think so. I think that's
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how he's considered, but he basically documented
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and connected all of these martyrs, who they
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were, their stories, and how they were martyred,
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and puts it into a book for us to read. Yeah,
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and maybe it's important to say, like, I think
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that there's some language that has been passed
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down only in certain conversations, and I think
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it's important as Christians to keep some of
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those key words and language and keep translating
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those and using the breadth of what those words
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actually mean. Yeah. So like, we don't really
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talk about martyrs very often. True. And I think
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when you hear about martyrs nowadays, it's not
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in the Christian faith. It's more of like a euphemism
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now. Yeah. Yeah, actually that's a good point.
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And it's more like stop being a martyr. Yeah.
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Yeah. And a lot of times it's seen as like they're
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doing something bad. Because in a lot of modern
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eras, and depending on what your faith background
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is, a lot of them are doing something. Like for
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me, I would look and say, well, that's not, you
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shouldn't do that. Unfortunately, and those people
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that have... martyred themselves or put themselves
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in that position. Someone taught them and they,
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like Paul or Saul, were going full after with
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full zeal and became a martyr for their faith.
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I wanna start this off strong. Can I say something
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that's potentially wrong? I love that, yeah.
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Or at the very least, it'll get people Google
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searching very quickly. Yeah, because that's
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what this podcast is gonna be. Because I want
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this to be, we both want this to be something
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where we can, let's dive deeper, let's help this
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dig very deep into these topics and stuff. Yeah,
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and ask the questions that are potentially not
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okay to ask. but you have to find the right context
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for them. So we want this podcast to be the right
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context for questions that you wouldn't necessarily
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ask in a church lobby. You know what I mean?
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Or like right after service. And especially those
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that you wouldn't necessarily ask during service.
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Just shouting out, pastor I have a question.
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Question! Okay. Maybe some churches do that.
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I think a lot of churches do that. Really? I've
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never seen one that does that. It's interesting.
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Yeah. I gotta go travel more. But no, so here's
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the thing that I've been thinking about leading
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up to this episode, and one of them is when we
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look at the word martyr. So it is almost like
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a, I believe it's just like an almost direct
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transliteration from the Greek, which I don't
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remember what that is off the top of my head.
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But essentially it means believing in something
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so strongly to the point of death. It's like
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that's where you... I'm basically dying on this
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hill, or literally dying on this hill in a lot
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of cases. But what I think is very interesting
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about it is that it is, and this is the thing
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that's gonna send people searching, and I'm saying
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this from all of my current knowledge, I believe
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martyrdom only exists within Christianity because
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I can't think of another religion or another
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group that Has been put to death simply because
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they believe something Now there are there are
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other situations where you can be like, oh well,
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what about like Like the Chinese government going
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after Buddhist Indians or something or the yeah,
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and it's like well Yeah, they might say that
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was part of but there's also a lot of governmental
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issues involved in that and people weren't being
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like Will you deny Buddha? Boom. I see what you're
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saying. Because it's specific to the spiritual
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faith. Yeah, it's unique only to Christianity.
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Okay. Yeah, I honestly hadn't thought about that.
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Because we kind of reference it in, I think,
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having grown up in the era that I grew up in,
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I think one of the modern martyrs were almost
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not being put to death, but dying for their faith.
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So in the sense that like, I mean someone being
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put to death for their faith is dying for their
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faith. But somebody who is getting in an airplane
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by themselves for the sake of their belief, like
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that's a whole different. in my mind, but I think
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the word martyr is still used in that context.
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And to what you're saying, I think it's improper
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use of martyrdom. Which I would agree with you.
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I think. But at the same time, and I think it's
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important to say, and probably something that
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we'll say a lot, or maybe I'll say a lot, is
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that I'm wrong all the time. And so the knowledge
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that I have is the knowledge that I have and
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I don't have more than that. But I hope to gain
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more as I go and I hope that that brings humility
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as I get older. So anything that's stated, and
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I think we're gonna be careful to not make statements
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even, just how you presented that is like, I
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think this... And it's potentially controversial.
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That's how we want to have these conversations.
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Because I think that's the only way to have the
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conversation. You need to be comfortable to say
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the things that you don't think you should say.
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Yeah, because it's exactly the same thing as
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your mom saying, don't look in that closet right
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before Christmas time. You know what I mean?
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It's like, well, all I can think about is what's
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in that closet. That's all I care about now.
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The fact is is like in in life Sometimes there's
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literally nothing in the closet Yeah, and now
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you've turned your whole life and all of your
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focus to trying to figure out what's in that
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closet Yeah, yeah, and the truth is is it would
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have been better For somebody to just go. Hey,
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let's just open the door Let's look in the closet
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for a second. Yeah and figure out like okay,
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there's a there's a Package in a bag. Yeah. Okay.
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Well at least I know there's not like an elephant
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in there or like nothing at all It's like you
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we have to we have to be willing to like crack
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the door a little bit and have a conversation
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Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and it's it's knowing
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how far to crack that door Sometimes some things
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I think we have to just blow the door off the
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hinges for sure other things. It's like hey,
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it's That's dangerous. Like I think I'm just
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going to throw this out as an example, but even
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like the idea of like magic. Sure. Which is a
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big conversation. Yeah. I think that's one thing
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that scripture is very clear about. It's like,
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this is dangerous. Yeah. But it is important,
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I think, to some level for us to go like, look,
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OK, don't go back. Yeah, sure. And I think other
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topics that might be that are lesser than that,
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it's like it's the same thing. Like, look, that's
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not helpful. Don't even bother. Yeah, and it's
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like, you know, discerning the spirits a little
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bit too. Yeah, absolutely. Blends into that because
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it is that type of thing. It's like don't walk
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into a space and go, hey, spiritually, I'm fully
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open. Yeah. I want to experience this. Don't
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do that with anything. You don't even do that
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walking into a church. Absolutely. Because in
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reality, you don't know what you're walking into.
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Yeah. And you should have some. you should have
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some guard there. And I believe that that's where
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the witness of the Holy Spirit can soften your
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heart. And I think that's part of the purpose
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of the softening of the heart is to kind of go
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ease you in, right? Ease you into that process
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of finding salvation and all of those things.
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And that can all happen in an instant, for sure.
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I believe that. It still should be something
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where you're not just walking into places fully
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open. I'm ready. But context. So I think this
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podcast is going to be a context where we do
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talk about the questions that you wouldn't normally
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talk about. To see, is this something that's
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actually as small as it sounds? Or is it something
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that should be more central to our conversation?
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Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I think that's why
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we went with this. So we're doing this. Because
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martyrdom. Like when we talk about martyrs, like
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martyrs row, I think that's one of the things
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that we don't necessarily talk about too much.
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But I think it really leads into this question,
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I think. But like really, martyrdom is something
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that we don't just regularly talk about and we
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don't think about or remember. And I think some
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of that has to do with the evangelical or the
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Catholic, the Catholic break off and like how
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we, if you're not Catholic, you're afraid that
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you're gonna be worshiping a saint. versus worshiping
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Jesus and what, like, in thinking about or remembering
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or, you know what I mean, like, that there's
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a line there, so we just don't even remember
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at all the people that came before us. That's
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a big break with, like, religion versus relationship,
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which I hate that phrase. Yeah. And it's like,
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it cringes me out just to say it. Yeah. But it's
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like, well, it's both. Both things are beautiful,
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but in their rightful place. For sure. But yeah,
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I think with the Protestant movement, as it's
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gone, it's like we've gotten so afraid of tradition.
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that anything that appears Catholic is like,
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that's idolatry. Some people might go as far
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as to say. Yeah, because if you go to remembrance,
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the first thing that pops into my mind is communion.
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Right. Well, we remember what Jesus did for us
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on the cross. Yeah. And that's true. But also
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a good way to do that and a good way to to stand
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on the words of Paul. Yeah. And and live out
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a life of perseverance and and walking in that.
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remembering those who did that already. Because
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Jesus did that. Yes, He did. He died on the cross
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for our sins. And that's why we have, we take
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communion, we do it in remembrance of Him. But
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we should also reference and be reminded of those
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who came before us and gave their lives not for,
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they didn't give their lives for us. And maybe
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that's the distinction. They didn't give their
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lives for us. their lives were taken from them
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because of what they believed. So they didn't
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give their lives. A martyr doesn't give their
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life except to Jesus. But they're not dying because
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Jesus asked them to die. You know what I mean?
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They're dying because who they believe in their
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unwavering choice to not bow to other gods caused
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the other gods to put them to death. Yeah. And
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so you die for the sake of the one true God that
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you believe is the one true God. Yeah. And that's
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martyrdom. Right. So yeah. Yeah. So I feel like
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that kind of steps us into the thought or the
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question for this podcast. Yeah. For this episode.
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Which I feel like is a strong one to start it
24:01
off with. It is. So yeah. So the question that
24:04
I've been thinking about a lot lately. Especially
24:08
as we've been talking about starting this podcast
24:10
and then I I told it to ask you that the same
24:13
question last night Oh, yeah Which is I'll frame
24:17
it this way. It's like why are we not excited
24:20
for the return of the Lord? Yeah, ask that one
24:23
more time in the same way. Yeah Yeah, so the
24:30
question is why are we not excited for the return
24:32
of the Lord, yeah, I just Like it's not like
24:35
normally there would be no reason to do that
24:37
because somebody could just skip back 15 seconds.
24:39
Yeah, but I feel like I feel like that's a Complex
24:45
question and also it seems like it's simple it
24:48
up front. Yeah, it's funny So I've asked other
24:51
people this I've mentioned it before and it's
24:54
funny because it always spurns off of Someone
24:59
will say something like oh that'll make the Lord
25:01
return faster XYZ happens, and I go, awesome.
25:06
Or it's like, I'm ready for the Lord to return
25:09
tonight, which I've said a lot of times. It's
25:11
like, if he came right now, no one heard this
25:13
episode, that'd be sweet. It would be. Because
25:15
I'd be in heaven then with the Lord. But we say
25:19
that, and we're like, oh, I'm excited for the
25:21
Lord to return. But when I say that, the response
25:23
typically has been, oh, yeah, but I want to get
25:26
married first. or I want to have kids first,
25:29
or I want to blah, blah, blah first. And it's
25:32
like, so why are you more excited for something
25:37
fleshly, which is not bad. That's the other thing.
25:41
It's like wanting those things isn't wrong. But
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why do you want them more than to be reunited
25:47
with the Lord? Yeah, I think the simple answer
25:51
is because we spend more time in our fleshly
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body. Yeah. And with our focus on what our fleshly
26:03
body desires. Mm. Then keeping our mind on the
26:07
Lord and spiritual things. Yeah. And, like, even
26:10
when you ask the question, there's part of me
26:13
that cringes. Mm. You know what I mean? Mm. But
26:17
then my, my theological brain goes, no. And my,
26:24
like, Like my heart says like yeah, I mean Yeah,
26:31
like yeah, we should want the Lord to return.
26:33
Yeah, but there is a little bit of like fleshly
26:36
fear You're like, um, yeah. Yeah, because really
26:40
what you're saying is like what if we died now?
26:44
Yeah, essentially, but not essentially exactly
26:46
Yeah, but in some ways we're not necessarily
26:51
dying if he returns but we kind of are because
26:54
we have to As far as like our time in this body
26:57
on earth is gone. Yeah, it's over now Yeah, yeah,
27:00
it's a little bit like like as you say that and
27:03
as we're like getting into this I think about
27:05
like I think about like changing grades So like
27:11
when you're like I remember for me Going from
27:16
like eighth grade to ninth grade. I went from
27:20
a school that I was in eighth grade and I was
27:23
there from kindergarten and then I graduated
27:27
and I was excited and then I got real sad because
27:33
like that time of your life is done yeah yeah
27:36
but I've never lived the next part oh yeah so
27:40
in some ways in some ways I've always thought
27:42
about it like uh I've always thought about it
27:46
like today is the end Like every moment. Yeah
27:53
today is the end of the life I've lived Yeah,
27:57
it's not the end of my life But it's right, but
28:00
it's the end of the life. I've lived. Yeah, so
28:03
we're constantly right on the edge of Something
28:08
we've never experienced. Yeah, that's a way to
28:11
think about that always right on the edge of
28:13
the next thing. Yeah And so I think maybe there's
28:16
some distraction where, and I think that's why
28:18
nostalgia maybe is such a big thing. Is because
28:22
we want to... Yeah, it's remember the comfortable...
28:24
Yeah. Yeah. It's living in the place you know.
28:28
Yeah. That's why I like... That's interesting.
28:31
So I... My mind even went a different direction
28:35
too. This is what, as I was thinking about this,
28:38
which I do agree, I think that is a huge part
28:42
of what's happening. My mind... was going through,
28:45
I was reading through Amos. Okay. Which is a
28:48
fun minor prophet to go through. Yeah. Honestly,
28:50
it's only nine chapters. And he's not that famous.
28:54
No. Famous Amos. That's good. I was trying to
28:59
sneak that in. That was so good. Sorry. It took
29:02
me, I was like, oh wait, that's what you just
29:03
said. At least 10 people rolled their eyes. It's
29:06
so true. And honestly, you should have. And you're
29:08
the dad, so you need to make the dad joke. That's
29:10
true. Sometimes I feel like you're more of it.
29:13
dad than I am. I'm ready. But just to justify
29:21
all of those that rolled their eyes when I said
29:23
that, I rolled my eyes as I was saying it. I
29:27
think everyone does when you say a dad joke.
29:29
No one enjoys them. I mean, I don't know. I guess
29:34
they enjoy them as much as like... Yeah, I don't
29:38
have anything for that. Digging a hole in the
29:39
backyard. Digging holes is really hard. Actually,
29:43
not in Florida. What do you mean? It depends
29:46
on where you dig. That's true. I'm used to, in
29:48
Ohio, growing up where it's just clay. Okay.
29:52
So it's like you're digging through just hard
29:54
clay that just breaks and destroys your shovel.
29:57
Yeah, but depending on where you are, it's clay.
29:59
That's true. Because of like all the phosphate
30:01
mining and stuff. Oh yeah, I forgot about that
30:03
stuff. But some spots are pretty soft. Most times
30:05
it's just like, oh, it's sand. It's mushy swamp.
30:08
Yeah. Yeah. There's water three inches below.
30:10
That makes it even harder. Yeah, it's good. Because
30:13
it just keeps filling in with water. OK, that
30:15
is true. Yeah. Yeah. It's a different kind of
30:17
difficulty. That's true. So what were you thinking
30:19
about when we were talking about this? So Amos
30:20
5, 18 through 27. I'll read it here real quick.
30:25
OK. So the title for this section is called Let
30:29
Justice Roll Down. And so it says, woe to you
30:33
who desire the day of the Lord. Strong start.
30:36
Yeah. Why would you have the day of the Lord?
30:38
It is darkness and not light. As if a man fled
30:42
from a lion in a baromette hymn, or went into
30:45
the house and leaned his hand against the wall
30:47
and a serpent bit him. Is not the day of the
30:49
Lord darkness and not light, and gloom with no
30:53
brightness in it? I hate, I despise your feasts
30:56
and I take no delight in your solemn assemblies.
30:59
Even though you offer me your burnt offerings
31:01
and grain offerings, I will not accept them.
31:04
And the peace offerings of your fattened animals,
31:06
I will not look upon them. Take away from me
31:09
the noise of your songs to the melodies of your
31:12
harps, I will not listen. But let justice roll
31:14
down like waters and righteousness like an ever
31:17
flowing stream. Did you bring to me sacrifices
31:20
and offerings during the 40 years in the wilderness,
31:23
O house of Israel? You shall take up your sicketh,
31:26
your king, and Cain, I think that's it, your
31:29
star god, your images that you have made for
31:32
yourselves. And I will send you into exile beyond
31:35
Damascus, says the Lord, whose name is the God
31:37
of hosts." And so, for some context to that,
31:42
which I think he calls them out pretty clearly
31:46
there, is... Here are these people that are excited
31:50
for the Lord to return because their enemies
31:53
will be vanquished. They will be venerated. But
31:58
they don't love the Lord, is what he's saying.
32:02
He's like, you're doing these things out of maybe
32:04
tradition or out of repetition, but your heart
32:07
is not set on the Lord. So when the day of the
32:09
Lord comes, you won't be rejoicing. And I wonder
32:14
for myself, which is where this came out of when
32:17
I heard this passage was, is that me? And it's
32:22
like, okay, do I actually love the Lord? Going
32:26
to church is good, but why do I go? Praying is
32:29
good, but why do I pray? And it's like, do I
32:31
do this because I think this is what I have to
32:33
do to be reunited with Him, or do I do it because
32:37
I love Him and I want to do these things? Yeah,
32:42
I would think of what some people would call
32:46
contradictory statements in the New Testament
32:48
when Jesus is speaking. He essentially says,
32:56
I'm coming with the sword. The sword? I'm coming
33:01
with the sword. I needed that W in there. That's
33:04
good. But I'm coming with a sword. We should
33:07
start pronouncing all letters. Yeah, to divide,
33:10
you know what I mean? And then you even see like,
33:12
and I'll jump to this just to not bring it out
33:15
too much, but then you see like the instances
33:20
where he casts demons out and they say, wait,
33:25
why are you here? Yeah. Yeah, and they're afraid
33:29
and they're afraid in a way that we should be
33:32
yeah, and it's it's that the conversation of
33:35
like the fear of the Lord of the idea of like
33:38
the the actions of Like you will do all these
33:41
things you'll even cast out demons in my name
33:43
Yeah, but I'll say I never knew you what it wild
33:46
it's terrifying. Yeah, and the thing is is like
33:49
like the the returning of the Lord is a joyous
33:55
occasion with trumpets sounding. But for those
34:00
who are not close to Him, it is a terrifying
34:02
moment. And we know that very easily by those
34:06
who are already damned to judgment. And we see
34:13
what their response is. And that should awaken
34:16
in us a fear of the Lord to say, when He returns,
34:20
I don't want that. I don't want to be there.
34:23
No. Yeah. So then it so then that is that like
34:26
I've been thinking a lot about like where your
34:29
treasure is, your heart is also. And thinking
34:32
about just like, man, just just even the simple
34:35
of like looking at finances over a month and
34:39
going like, where's my money actually going?
34:41
Like where where like not like I don't know where
34:45
my money's gone. You know what I mean? Like I'm
34:46
not like you're getting like the nitty gritty
34:48
of like what happened. Yeah, yeah, or even like
34:52
looking at like ratios like I look at like all
34:55
right this amount of money went to this thing
34:57
this amount of money went to this thing this
34:59
amount of money was You know this piggy went
35:02
to the market this But but it's that thing of
35:08
like where this actually shows me on paper where
35:12
my focus is It actually shows me on paper where
35:15
my heart is. And not to be like, not to be like,
35:19
so you have to like, everything has to be, but
35:22
the thing is, is like, in the same way, it's
35:24
like, but we should, that shouldn't sound like
35:27
that to us. When someone is like, hey, you, everything,
35:32
you know, always keep your mind on the Lord.
35:34
Wake up and pray and do it. That shouldn't sound
35:36
like boomers. It shouldn't be like, what do you
35:40
guys, like, you know, when I get, When I get
35:42
older and retire, when I stop doing that, you
35:45
know, I'll spend more time doing it. You won't.
35:47
Yeah. And the problem is your heart will be,
35:50
our hearts will be so far from the Lord that
35:54
of course we won't. We won't desire that. Yeah,
35:56
we won't desire that because the Lord gives us
35:58
the desires of our hearts. Yeah. But the desires
36:01
of our hearts are actually his desires for us.
36:05
Yeah. Yeah. To be used for him. So even though
36:09
it's He's giving us the desires of our hearts.
36:12
Yeah. They're not our desires. Yeah. They're
36:15
His. Yeah. So we even take stuff like that and
36:18
turn it towards the Lord's gonna bless me how
36:21
I want Him to. Right. Not true. Yeah. Yeah. And
36:25
I think that's so prevalent and I love this example
36:28
of just looking at Jesus' ministry. It's like,
36:32
how did Jesus heal blind people? However he chose
36:35
to heal them. How did he heal sick people? However
36:39
he chose to do it. And I think the, we talked
36:41
about this on an episode on the other podcast,
36:44
but it's just like, it's not, the life of a Christian
36:47
is not prescriptive. The things that God asks
36:51
us to do are not prescriptive. Like, oh, if you
36:54
walk and pray, then you'll be more holy than
36:55
the guy who sits and prays. It's like, well,
36:57
not true. But for the guy who God tells him to
37:01
walk and pray, and he sits and prays, Well, he's
37:04
not doing what God's wanting him to do. What
37:07
he's doing is still good, he's still praying.
37:09
But there's a posture that you think you're better
37:12
off sitting maybe. Or it's like you were disobedient
37:14
in this moment. In the same way we see Moses,
37:18
when God says, strike the rock and the water
37:20
comes out. And then later they say, okay, we
37:22
want more water. And God says, okay, do this
37:26
instead. And Moses is like, well, I'm gonna strike
37:27
the rock. Like the intent was still to... Satisfy
37:32
the thirst of the people right, but that's not
37:35
what God told him to do. Yeah Yeah, and and that's
37:38
I mean, that's a perfect example of Listen to
37:41
God now. Yeah. Yeah, it's not he's not giving
37:45
you something for you to stop having a relationship
37:48
with him, right? And maybe that's the reason
37:51
like maybe that's the reason why it's always
37:53
different like miracles always have in different
37:55
ways and It shows up that way because because
37:59
it is that yeah it And how arrogant of us to
38:05
say, hey, God, give me a miracle. And then God
38:11
does that in His infinite grace. And we experience
38:15
this miracle, and then we treat it like a formula.
38:20
How ignorant of us, but also how wildly selfish
38:23
of us, and completely not the point of the first
38:28
miracle. The point of the first miracle was,
38:31
I'm your father, I love you, you've been obedient
38:34
to my commands, I want to bless you and I want
38:37
to see you flourish and have good things. But
38:41
I don't want you to do that outside of me. So
38:44
that's the other side of it is like, God is a
38:46
jealous God. And not in a way that's like, other
38:51
things, God's not a jealous God because there
38:54
are other things that compete for his greatness.
38:58
But there are other things that compete for our
39:01
hearts which cause us to move away Yeah, from
39:05
his greatness. Yeah, so he I think that he's
39:10
more sad I agree then Going well if they want
39:16
to hang out over there then good for them. Yeah,
39:18
whatever that guy's not cool. Anyways, I didn't
39:22
watch you were here anyway. Yeah Well, what and
39:25
he's like turning to it, you know, God's like
39:27
God's like here. He's turning to the cherubim
39:30
and he's like Dude, he's like Cherubim is like
39:34
not this again. Did you see what he was wearing?
39:37
Yeah. Yeah. What shoes should I get? I mean,
39:40
what's the come on? Cherubim Cherubim 573 what
39:45
is He stopped naming him. He's like just get
39:49
a numbered system now like prison But it's like
39:57
yeah, it's not like that like we think about
39:59
that because we it's so we want everything to
40:02
be so dualistic Yeah, we want everything to be
40:05
like, okay this great thing happened because
40:08
I did this. No, it's it's an ongoing process
40:11
Yeah, like I I've never gotten better at anything
40:14
because I did it once. Yeah. Yeah, it's the repetition
40:18
of it and it's the adjustment It's like if I
40:22
start out and I do 10 push -ups a day, at some
40:26
point I'm gonna flatten out and 10 push -ups
40:30
is not gonna do anything for me. And I might
40:32
actually decline even though I'm still doing
40:35
10 push -ups a day. It's like I have to then
40:38
add to 20 and then to 30. And there's not a threshold.
40:43
Like I have to keep going up. and eventually
40:46
have to be doing a thousand push -ups a day or
40:49
doing something else. Something that's more difficult
40:51
inherently. Yeah. Yeah. Like there's never, and
40:54
that's like getting into the suffering, the gain
41:00
of suffering as a Christian. Yeah. Where it is
41:04
that building of perseverance. And we always
41:07
talk about suffering, I feel like as a Christian
41:10
from like a, why is it like? Why is God so needy?
41:16
You know what I mean? Why does He need this?
41:18
He doesn't need me to do it. He doesn't. But
41:21
it's the only way that we can receive the blessing
41:23
and eternal life with Him. Our life has to produce
41:30
good fruit in order to bear witness to our...
41:38
sanctification. And maybe that's the best way
41:41
to put it. Like the fruit is not to tell everybody
41:44
else, like, hey, I got saved. The fruit is for
41:50
the sake of other people and also a testament.
41:55
to active sanctification, which is the process
41:58
of getting stronger and stronger and stronger.
42:02
It's adding workouts. It's not plateauing. It's
42:06
continuing to move forward. And that's the beauty
42:09
of especially these martyrs. That's what's so
42:13
beautiful about their lives and their testimonies,
42:15
which is their witness, their martyr, is they
42:19
believe in this so strongly that they were willing
42:21
to be put to death because of this belief. And
42:25
it's like, that's a lot of push -ups. Yeah, for
42:28
sure. You know what I mean? It's like, and so
42:30
for us to look at their witness, their testimony
42:32
of Christ is like, that's so powerful for us.
42:36
And it's like, I think we can be faithful in
42:38
the lesser things when they've been faithful
42:41
in the greatest thing, giving up their own life.
42:43
Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes like, and to be like,
42:47
to jump back to a like very human thing, because
42:51
I feel like that's what, that's what I want.
42:53
like this podcast to be is like, for me, I'm
42:56
kind of like, man, I'm just gonna say what maybe
43:00
you haven't thought of yet. And maybe my mind
43:03
is a little bit weird. But for me, I'm like,
43:07
man, honestly, this whole thing would have been
43:10
easier if I could have been martyred when I was
43:12
20. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like that's probably
43:17
a really taboo thing to say. Probably. But the
43:19
fact is, is like, like the fact is, is like,
43:22
that actually like the last however many years
43:26
from that point it's like I wouldn't have had
43:30
to persevere all that time yeah I look back and
43:32
I'm like it's true it actually would have been
43:33
cool to be like done ordered back then but the
43:37
thing is is like it's obviously not yeah and
43:40
there's such a there's such an opportunity to
43:45
live and flourish and see God's creation and
43:50
experience that and grow in a richer and deeper
43:53
relationship with Jesus in the process of being
43:57
able to reach and find other people to make disciples
44:00
for Him as well. And that actually, I believe
44:03
it's 2 Peter 3 .15 that talks about the delay
44:08
of the Lord is salvation. Yeah. The fact that
44:11
the Lord takes so long to return is salvation
44:14
for one, for us to get it right. Yes, the greatest
44:17
showing of grace. Yeah. And second is for those
44:21
that don't believe that they can have the opportunity
44:23
to come to the Lord. Yeah. Yeah. And even as,
44:27
you know, as the Romans one that our faith or
44:33
that the crucifixion, the resurrection of Jesus
44:37
is a stumbling block to the Jews. Yeah. And nonsense
44:42
to the Greeks. Yeah. Like that, that concept
44:45
is one of those things where Our life, if our
44:51
life is speaking the gospel of Jesus, then our
44:55
life should be a stumbling block to the Jews.
44:59
Our life should be nonsense to the non -believer.
45:04
It should be. And that's the whole thing of like
45:08
the parable of the, it feels weird saying this,
45:13
but the parable of the ten virgins. And they're
45:15
waiting with oil in their lamps. for the bridegroom
45:20
to come. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like some of them
45:22
just didn't think he was going to come. Yeah.
45:25
Or maybe they just thought, well, when he comes,
45:29
maybe he can just help me. Yeah. And I think
45:32
maybe we think that because salvation is so freely
45:35
given. Yeah. And when at the beginning of our
45:38
relationship with Jesus, there's this freedom
45:42
that's so it's like the grace of God just pours
45:45
it out on you right away and you get that taste
45:48
of it. And you're like, yeah, it feels good to
45:51
go for a run. It does. It feels good the next
45:55
day. You're sore, but you feel better. You've
46:00
had endorphins and you've had chemicals running
46:03
through your body that you haven't had running
46:05
through your body in a while. And it feels great.
46:08
And that's what salvation feels like at that
46:11
moment. But then that wears off and you got to
46:13
run again. You know what I mean? And that's the
46:16
sanctification process of going. So yeah, I mean,
46:20
I think going back to that question, will you
46:22
pull up that passage, Hebrews 10? Yeah, I got
46:27
you. Hebrews 10, 36, I think. And just read what
46:32
that says until I think there's a break. Yeah,
46:35
10, 36. For you have need of endurance so that
46:40
when you have done the will of God, you may receive
46:42
what is promised. For yet a little while in the
46:46
coming one will come and will not delay But my
46:49
righteous one shall live by faith and if he shrinks
46:52
back my soul has no pleasure in him But we are
46:56
not of those who shrink back and are destroyed
46:58
but of those who have faith and preserve their
47:02
souls Yeah, I mean I think that like pretty awesome
47:07
It kind of wraps the whole it's pretty good station.
47:10
Yeah, and it's that idea of like The truth is
47:13
like the perseverance of it allows us the entire
47:18
blessing of the gospel and the elation of what
47:23
the prize is that's set before us. And I want
47:27
to be careful to say not set before us a small
47:32
predestined group of people. You know what I
47:35
mean? And not to like poke a jab with that language.
47:41
Just in general. I'm not saying, like, elite
47:44
people get to do this. It's like, no, it's the
47:50
prize set before us, humanity. And the prize
47:54
set before us is what our creator, who created
47:58
us, there's no getting around that. Why would
48:02
we not want to partake in what he has created
48:05
for us? And I think that's where it's tough.
48:11
No, someone else created me, and they did it
48:15
for a reason. I've never created anything for
48:18
no reason at all. I've always created things
48:21
for a purpose. Now they didn't necessarily meet
48:24
that purpose, or they were garbage and I couldn't
48:28
use them for that purpose. But at the same time,
48:33
whenever I create, I'm creating with intention.
48:37
And whatever I create is intended to do something
48:40
or to have something or be a part of something
48:43
or whatever that is. And we, the truth is we
48:46
have a creator and our creator designed us for
48:50
something. And I think that there's no greater
48:56
elation, ecstasy, no greater feeling, no greater
49:01
thought, no greater flow, no greater place. Anything
49:05
that you can think of anything that you could
49:07
partake in there is nothing greater than being
49:10
perfectly In the spot where your creator designed
49:15
you to be yeah, and and that's that's the perseverance
49:18
is like I want to get there I want to get to
49:20
that spot and I feel like I feel like the the
49:24
the lack of doing that in other places is Not
49:27
just sitting still. Yeah, it's in some ways.
49:30
It's it's trying to find that And maybe in a
49:33
lazy way, not like aggressively going out and
49:36
doing all the drugs and like do it, you know,
49:39
like on the whatever. Yeah. It's like not just
49:42
like maybe it's just like in the slowest way
49:45
possible just trying to like, you know, not do
49:49
any push ups. You know what I mean? Yeah. But
49:52
you can't do that. Like eventually it's not good.
49:56
So I don't. And what I will say to you for. I
50:03
guess maybe to make me feel better too. I feel
50:06
like what can happen a lot of times is we can
50:10
hear a lot of the stuff that is in store for
50:13
us. And then we ignore the fact of like, well,
50:17
who is it, like what is it all for? Who is it
50:19
all for? And I think that's the other side of
50:22
it too. Going back to this original question
50:24
is like, yes, there is blessing for us. if we
50:29
live in Christ. But I'm not doing it for the
50:34
blessing. It's like we're doing it because we
50:36
love Christ and we get a blessing. Yeah. And
50:40
I think that's the important thing, especially
50:41
when we look at like, how do I become, if that's
50:43
the question of why am I not excited for the
50:46
return of the Lord, how do I become excited for
50:47
it? Yeah. And it's that question of like, because
50:50
you want to be reunited with Him. That's the
50:53
other side of the Christian life suffering that
50:56
I think of. is yes, there obviously are a lot
51:00
of people, a lot of people died in horrible ways.
51:04
Yeah. That even to the point where the people
51:08
felt bad, I think it's Tacitus, one of the Roman
51:12
historians wrote about it. He doesn't like Christians
51:15
at all, but even he's like... Yeah, people started
51:17
to feel pity for them because like they're getting
51:19
ripped apart by dogs They're getting lit on fire
51:21
in gardens to to light the night as torches.
51:24
Yeah, it's like these are horrible things that
51:26
happen to people Yeah, because they said I love
51:28
christ. Yeah um But we can only do that when
51:32
we love him. Yeah, um, and so it's like When
51:36
when I feel like for me when I when I recognize,
51:39
um who god is and who I am in light of him It's
51:43
like I'm more excited to see him and reunite
51:46
with him. And I know that every day I'm not with
51:49
him is suffering. There's still joy in the earth.
51:53
There's still a joy here. And there's grace and
51:56
there's mercy, the fact that he isn't here yet.
51:59
But how beautiful is it to know that I know who
52:03
he is and I want to see him. I want to touch
52:06
him. I want to feel him. I want to be in his
52:09
presence. And I think that's the beauty. And
52:13
it's to what Paul says, to live is Christ. I
52:16
think that's the first part. To live is not for
52:18
me to get a blessing. That can happen. That does
52:21
happen. But it's like to live is Christ. But
52:24
to die is gain. Because I no longer have to live
52:28
Christ, I can be with Christ. Yeah. Yeah. And
52:33
I mean, there's like, at any point in your life,
52:37
you can take all of these things because I think
52:39
one of the things that can happen as we go through
52:43
or as people are maybe overly churched. Yeah.
52:47
Or people who have stopped going to church because
52:50
they're like, there's just all these phrases.
52:53
There's just all these things. Yeah. There's
52:54
all this stuff and also like misconception or
52:58
a lot of misrepresentation of what those things
53:01
are. Yeah. You know, Christianese. Yeah. And
53:04
it's tough because It is that type of thing.
53:07
It's like, well, you know, you kind of get to
53:10
that, that space where you're like, yeah, but
53:13
like, why would he, why would he do all that?
53:17
Like, why would, why would God make us feel this?
53:20
And it's like, yeah, but have you ever, have
53:23
you ever loved someone? And when you're apart
53:30
from, from them, there becomes a point where
53:33
all you're trying to do is get back to them.
53:35
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's all we're trying to
53:38
do. Yeah. I think all that we are trying to do
53:41
as humanity is get back to our creator. Yeah.
53:45
And I think our soul, I think our mind, I think
53:49
our bodies are actively trying to do that. Yeah.
53:53
Yeah. And there's clear opportunity to satisfy
54:01
that need. in a bunch of different ways that
54:04
ultimately aren't satisfying, they're distractions.
54:08
And I think that that's, to me I feel like that's
54:11
the simple of it, is it's like, we have to remember
54:16
our love that we are apart from. Our love that
54:22
we've been distant from because we've been away
54:28
on mission. To make disciples. Yeah and to show
54:33
people this love. Yeah, and we long to be back
54:36
with our love And all we're trying to do is get
54:39
back with our our love. Yeah, you know what I
54:42
mean? Yeah, as michael hyzer said with that it's
54:44
like well on one side It's like well, why did
54:47
god choose to redeem humanity? Yeah, and for
54:50
him he wanted a family. Yeah, and he chose to
54:54
have that family with humanity and for us who
54:58
we kicked ourselves out of the family base. We
55:01
separated ourselves from him. Like you said,
55:04
we long for that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean,
55:10
there's a ton of things we could talk about.
55:12
Yeah. But, yeah, I think next week, next episode,
55:18
we'll jump into Martyr number one. Let's go.
55:24
In Fox's Book of Martyrs. And that's like this
55:28
episode. It'll just be a front segment. The whole
55:32
podcast won't be about Stephen the martyr. There
55:37
might be a couple martyrs that we spend a lot
55:40
of time on. Yeah, most likely. Just because of
55:43
the effects of their life and how it rippled
55:47
and affects us now. I think there are important
55:49
concepts we can glean from their life, too. can
55:53
lead into a topic. But ultimately, too, we want
55:56
to hear from you guys. And what are your questions
55:59
that you're dealing with? We're going to bring
56:01
up the ones that we're dealing with. Absolutely.
56:03
And what are the questions that somebody told
56:05
you don't ask that question? Or what are the
56:08
questions? That's the one I want to know. Yeah,
56:09
that's the one I want to know. Yeah, what's that
56:12
question? And then also what's the book you're
56:13
not allowed to read? I'll read it for you. This
56:18
will be a book club Yeah Yeah, and so I think
56:25
that's the goal is let's talk about this stuff
56:28
and hopefully be an aid to yeah to church leaders
56:32
and those who Want the questions or want to be
56:36
able to ask the questions that that ultimately
56:39
like we we need to talk about and not make them
56:43
so big for people because we're just saying,
56:47
stay away from it. There are some things that
56:50
we need to stay away from, but hopefully we can
56:54
tell you why you should stay away from them and
56:57
not just say, stay away from it. And then on
56:59
the flip side, like with this one is, what's
57:00
something we're staying away from that we shouldn't?
57:02
Let's make it a bigger deal. Absolutely. It's
57:06
kind of finding where is the... Where's the through
57:10
line with all this like where how do these things
57:12
all play together and and line up? Yeah Yeah,
57:16
so ultimately Yeah, I think the the question
57:21
that we would leave you with is When we ask the
57:26
question Are you ready for jesus to return or
57:32
Are you excited? Or what if he returns right
57:38
now? Yeah How does that make you feel? And maybe
57:43
that's an important question that you should
57:44
ask yourself on a daily basis. Yeah. How does
57:47
it make you feel to say, today is my last day
57:51
on earth as I know it? Yeah. Because the Lord
57:57
is going to return today. And if you feel like
58:01
you want to cringe or pull back, then. Maybe
58:06
it's time to open up the finances. See see like
58:10
what happened? Why am I not like you said it's
58:12
like where's all of my money going? Where's where's
58:14
all my energy going? Yeah, where's my time being
58:16
spent? Yeah Yeah, yeah, you're gonna make a joke,
58:20
but that is a serious thing. I kind of put it
58:23
up as a joke Yeah, but but yeah, so This is martyrs
58:30
row episode one episode one We'll be here Until
58:37
he returns That's right. Amen. It might be by
58:41
episode five. Hey, I'm here for it. The Lord
58:47
is just a stone's throw away. The Lord Jesus
58:50
will return. And He will. I want every part of
58:58
me to be excited about that. Yeah. Every time
59:01
I hear that. So, yeah. Episode 1. Episode 1.
59:06
We don't know how to end this, do we? Martyrs
59:07
Row. Martyrs Row. Do we snap? Oh yeah. Alright,
59:12
so we'll see you on episode 2. Ready? 3, 2, 1.