Latest / The Driven Athlete / How Prime Performance Engineers Baseball Success | Ep 102

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How Prime Performance Engineers Baseball Success | Ep 102 · The Driven Athlete

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a driven, active person who wants to reach and pursue a higher quality life with some ambition, then guess what?
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is for you.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: This is the Driven Athlete Podcast.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: What's up, y'all?
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's your man, Dr.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Kyle.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Glad you're here with the uh Driven Athlete Podcast.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: We got two cool guests with us that are have traveled down a little bit of a distance, right?
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: From Port St.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Port St.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Lucy.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: We got Victor and Aaron, and they are uh performance coaches and co-founders of Prime Performance for baseball athletes.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um thank y'all for coming down.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Share more about where y'all are located and like and who y'all work with specifically.
• 0:39
  unknown: Yeah.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: You can go ahead if you want.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we're located in Port St.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Lucie.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we really specialize in the player development sector for baseball and and specifically on the pitching side, expanding into the hitting side.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, our job and our our goal here and our mindset with this whole thing is like make it a one-stop shop for our athlete that comes in.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: We really focus on the strength and condition conditioning side as well as the corrective movement assessment side and really tie that all into the overall development and performance of our athletes.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're not like a velocity, you know, factory.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: We don't focus mainly on vO.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we put all our eggs in the basket of performing when the lights come on and and equipping our athletes with that ability to do that at a high level at every level.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of like the the main focus we have on our athletes.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: I think you know, the big thing for us is just making it easier for the athlete, right?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like this time period, it's it's you know, everybody is really good, everybody throws very hard, everybody hits the ball very far.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and everything that goes behind the scenes with that, it's a lot, you know.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, you know, having uh, you know, a strength guy, having a pitching guy, having a nutritionist, then, you know, are they all on the same page with everything, right?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: So how can we, you know, kind of pull everything together, have one coach that you can go back to and be able to, that's your one point of contact that you can you can talk with.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: They know you very well.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because throughout your career, you're gonna have a thousand coaches.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it's not to, it's not to talk bad about those coaches, but I think, you know, having one guy that you can go back and rely on or one place you can go back and rely on that knows you very well, that you know, knows your body, your strengths, your weaknesses, it's extremely helpful, you know.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: And you don't feel like, you know, you, you know, maybe get told something, you backtrack, and then, you know, what is that, what does that create from that, right?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, a lot of conflicting opinions.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: It could be like a lot of opinions that just like you don't know what to believe and who to who to trust, you know.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then you have social media now.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it's yeah, it's even worse.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like you get a thousand things put in your head and it's like, I don't know, I don't know what's right, I don't know what's wrong, I don't know what's wrong with me, what I should do, what I should work on.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you know, having a guy that you can rely on and, you know, more than anything, just like be a mentor, you know, because there's a lot of things that um we can help with, and each athlete is gonna be different.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: There's gonna be some athletes that we work with that they really need to work on the strength and conditioning part.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's some guys that, you know, you know, maybe higher level athletes that we work with professionals that, yeah, they're big and strong, but they're not healthy.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they've kind of they've played for a while, they've gone through a lot of things.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: Or, you know, maybe, you know, they've they've got to a certain point, you know, up to high A double A, but they're they're missing something in their arsenal that they need to go get to the big league.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: So it's, you know, it's about like, you know, finding the cup that's not filled up and what can we do to fill that one up and make sure that, you know, every every bucket or every cup is filled up and you're performing the way you should in every aspect.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: The hard part too with our sport is like you're on a time, you're you're on a timestamp, a time clock, right?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, um if you're really, really good at what you do on a baseball field, you could probably do it until you're like 35.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that's you know, you're signing big time contract, you're establishing yourself as like a dude.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: So like every step of the way matters.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like from when you are in high school all the way through, like you should probably be devoting some resources and time to actually developing and being the window of opportunity is small.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that's I think we're getting there in our culture.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think the culture has shifted from we need to play more, play more, play more to like we need to get better so we can perform at a higher level so we get more opportunities.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of like the shift that we're having in this sector right now.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: I uh something I I would feel like I try to communicate to lots of the athletes we work with, like young athletes, where I'm like, yo, we understand and appreciate that the window of opportunity is small, where like somebody has only two years maybe to showcase themselves in high school, that then sets the trajectory for them to go to college.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then they have like two to three years in college to really showcase themselves to solidify an opportunity to maybe go to the next level, right?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Which is super rare, of course.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: But like if somebody's hobbling around with injury, you know what I mean, and they can't play and they can't they're sitting on the bench.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: There's I've seen that a bunch.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: And there's meandering around, they have no answers, they're not sure what to do.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: They're waiting for this test, they're waiting for this image, this doc's response, like whatever.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: In the meantime, they're just like not doing anything.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, that is what we do, right?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then give them out to you guys so that you all can beef them up and make them better athlete and performers, you know.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, we totally the window of opportunity is small, yeah.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it sucks when somebody's like limited and not able to perform when they when they want to, or at the highest level, they can with a lack of exposure to training and stuff, you know.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Y'all both played college baseball.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, correct.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh, where'd y'all would you play?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: I played at the University of New Mexico.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: University of New Mexico.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: I stayed home and played in my backyard and had a pretty good career.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew coaching, I knew I wasn't gonna be a big leader, so coaching was in my future.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I just jumped into it.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: I was a pitcher.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Righty or lefty?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Righty.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, my career ended on an injury, so I took it as far as I can go.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, that just kind of screwed up.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: What happened?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: I tore my UCL and senior weekend, and I took it as far as I can go.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was super happy that I could go that far.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: I just knew I wanted to get into a coaching career, so I wasn't gonna pursue a rehab stint and maybe play indie ball and maybe get an opportunity.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like my passion was coaching.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's a journey.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, the indie ball and the grind.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Undrafted, free agent, low ball.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh man, it sucks.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Just rides hard on nowhere, yeah, triple headers, broke, broke, yeah.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's a big one.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then you were at Wichita State.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I went to uh a JUCO, Coffeville Community College, just small JUCO in Kansas, um, you know, JUCO grind, then went to Wichita State for two years, um, and then had one more COVID season.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: I went to a D2 Emporia State.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that was that was it.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, same thing.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of I wanted to keep playing.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, my back was in shambles and uh came to the came to the idea that you know maybe it's probably you know time to start just coaching and you know be able to get out of bed each day and feel good.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: What position?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: Pitcher, right hand of back.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: All right, yeah, same thing.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: What started going with your back?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I would I would say even back in JUCO, I started to deal with some sciatica.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you know, had some some herniation issues, um, wasn't bad.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: But then as my career progressed and I started to get it, really was my last year, just horrific sciatica, lightning bolt down my right leg.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um and you know, it was a thing where I could, I could still go out and pitch, but I just was not was not the same.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I, you know, there's probably a lot of things that contributed to it.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: I um I lifted really hard when I was in high school.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I played football, so I was cleaning as much as I could, squatting as much as I could.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um looking back at it atom anatomically, how I'm built, I probably shouldn't have been loading up the bar and doing extremely heavy back squats, heavy cleans.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that probably contributed to it.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then just like the aggressive rotational nature of pitching over and over and over again, you know, the same direction.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think over time just kind of tore me up.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: So it was really, you know, I had dealt with it throughout my college career.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: That last year was when it really started getting bad.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it eventually started to kind of clear up a little bit.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: I worked with a remote PT, um, Dr.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: J Physio X, which is a place up in Boston.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: Worked with him, um, took me through the McKinse method.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then kind of took over some of the strength and conditioning things for me.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I mean, truth be told, it wasn't necessarily like, you know, what he did for me, but it was like what he took away from me.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, hey, let's maybe stay away from this, stay away from this.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I started feeling better.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you know, towards the end of the season, I started feeling a little bit better, but it was still it was a battle.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: It was a battle to just like, you know, push through it most days, and and you know, mentally it starts to get draining.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, 100%.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's a big one, I feel like, too, that is underlooked or undervalued of like the psychological, just the um relating to like knowing, like I know what you're going through.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, uh, because it sucks, you know.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and a little bit of encouragement, like when you see improvements, it's always super helpful, of course.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but anyway, we hear stories like that, and we're like, man, we wish we would have worked with someone like yourself in that moment because that stuff is solvable.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: Where the low back pain and tightness with preferred pain down the leg, sciatica type symptoms, that's a really common thing for pitchers.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Hyperextending through the low back, it's usually a core stability recruitment issue with some glute stability too.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then some of the spinal mobility disparities through the back.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then working on mechanics.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm not a pitching coach by any means.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: We're biomechanics and pain, but like communicating with pitching coaches too, and talking to the athlete themselves.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, we uh it's but it's a bummer, you know.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: We hear stories like that, and we're like, yo, we I'm very confident that we could have been significantly impactful for your career and direction.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: But it's not but anyway, with pitchers, I mean elbow, shoulder, and then low back, those are the three most common things.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: I would put it shoulder, low back, and elbow in those three, those three tiers.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Those are super common.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so y'all fit in both those two boats.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Proto prototype.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you mentioned um your guys' development and and strength training and your processes and stuff.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, yeah, we're not just gonna work on velocity, like getting people to throw harder and faster.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Why not?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think is that like is that a common thing where it's like they're just a they're just a VLO clinic, like let's just throw as fast as you can.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's pretty common because truth be told, it's probably one of the easiest things to measure in our industry, right?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's a radar gun everywhere.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: You go to a big event, like a Jupiter's having a huge event, right?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you'll see a bunch of radars guns get raised up.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's just kind of what gets your attention, yeah, right.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I fell into that um when I was a college coach.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's like, okay, well, there's a threshold you have to throw, right?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like to play at the division one level to play in our program.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it truly doesn't tell the story, right?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: What is that?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: What is that threshold?
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I it depends on the age.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: I would say, like, obviously, 90 is a easy 90 miles an hour is a pretty easy threshold to to kind of stamp there.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, the higher you go, the higher you should probably throw, or you should have an outlier pitch or perform at a high level.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's like kind of like what it what that tracks down to is like VLO, outlier pitch.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, how does he perform?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's kind of how you look at it.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, gotcha.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think truly VLO gets you the attention, but performance gives you opportunity, right?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's kind of how it how it gets broken down.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: And VLO, I don't want to say it's easy to train, but there are some good methods that are like tried and true to get you higher VLO.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's like performing.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we want to extend careers.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: We don't just want to be a VLO monkey and you hit a 95, but you don't play baseball.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you just like went to the carnival and hit 95.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a little different.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's where we appeal to athletes more.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: So is like understanding that performance is more than just VLO.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great chapter in the book, and it probably pertains to a lot of people, but it's not the whole novel, right?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just a piece of the story.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: I would imagine just like trying to sling it as best as fast as you can.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: The longevity for that is not going to be as likely.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: No, and truly, like there's a lot more that goes into it, right?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a lot of compensations that happen if you're not strong enough, not ready, and you're just trying to throw as hard as you can.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um sometimes that is a method, though.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes guys aren't trying to throw hard and they're expecting it to just come easy.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really getting to know your athlete, understanding his background and what he's tried before.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what we do, and and Beck can speak on this more, is like we really take a look under the hood.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not just a guess.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: We have really cool technology installed at our facility, some good methods that we use that like it's not it's educated guesswork, but it goes beyond that.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like we have a really good system of testing, evaluating, refining what we're doing, and having like a good runway and an idea for each and every athlete that's cool with what stuff?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, basically, if you were an athlete, you sign up and we're gonna take you through a full assessment.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's a movement assessment.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I'll obviously just you know, kind of taking them through some movements and see from a you know, scap, shoulder, hip, spine, neck, standpoint, anything like that.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're trying to see, you know, how you how you move.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then from there, we're, you know, we're doing like some vauled force plate testing, um, vauled force frame, um, grip strength, you know, just trying to get a good idea of, you know, how well can you produce power, how well can you absorb power.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then, you know, from a a pitching standpoint, then we'll throw you up.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: We have a motion capture and a force plate mound.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: So then it's like, okay, how do you move on the mound then?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: How well do you, you know, produce force on the mound?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: How well do you absorb force on the mound?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: And we have trackman, so we can look at ball flight.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: So cool.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: How well um can you, you know, produce spin on the ball?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: How do you make it move?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what's your measure our RPMs like with Yeah?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's a bunch of stuff that that we look in into.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's you know, that's one thing.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: Spin rate gets thrown out there a lot, probably more than anything else.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's it's honestly not really something that we look at a ton.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think for most of us, we look at some other metrics that are a little bit more important to us.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um like which ones?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: So for, and I'll I'll speak on myself, um, but for me, I don't look at spin rate a ton.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's because you can't really take a kid and you know improve spin rate unless, you know, there's there's sticky substances, there's stuff like that.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you could probably improve it a little bit.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's really it's not gonna make as big of a change on the pitch movement um as you think.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so for me, I'm looking more at like induced vertical movement, horizontal movement.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm looking at release height, extension, um, the tilt or axis of the ball, that kind of stuff.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, obviously, velocity is a big one.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, stuff that you can influence a little bit more.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you can you can speak on that.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it really individualized for each guy.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can bring 10 dudes in, they all throw differently.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: We're probably looking at different stuff.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like it really is how can we create separation, identify what makes this kid good, live on those, but also bring the floor up to meet that as well.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think it's just, you know, everything's the same for each person.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably a lot like PT, right?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're not going to give the same program to each and every person.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: You're really evaluating each piece of it and then coming up with a solution.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, I think you would probably pull in four different coaches that we have, and they would look at different things on track man based on their athletes that they work with.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: So um, well, what we do a really good job is is filter that information per athlete because there is so much.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: We talked about social media, all this stuff where you can get lost really quick.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a lot of domers out there, you know, that are trying new things.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: But what we do is we simplify that down, educate them, and then apply it to their development.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: There's no guesswork, there's no um try this, try that.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, this is what we're gonna do.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna live with this and then move on to the next segment of your development.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: Guys, guys that think too much, we call them domers.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: So if you hear that, just up in the dome.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I guess.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, yeah.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, and I don't know if it's if it's baseball.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: It feels like it's it's baseball more than any other sport, probably because it's a little bit more technical than a lot of sports, you know, football, you just you go out and it's just pure aggression, you know.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: But baseball, obviously a little bit more technical, especially the pitchers.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's a lot of social media out right now making fun of pitchers and and how they train.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think it's a little bit of an epidemic.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this is a whole whole nother thing, but a little bit of an epidemic of overthinking things and training strategies.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so we have we have guys that we call domers and they just overanalyze everything.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that's another thing in the assessment process that you can kind of figure out just by having conversations with them.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's like where they're at on that.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, so it's like, all right, we go through this whole thing and it's like physically, here are all these, you know, traits.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: Now, just having conversations with them, you know, up in the head, like where, you know, like are we are we lacking, you know, is a performance lacking from you know, overthinking, you know, like what's going on up there?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because ultimately it's like everything physical can be really good, but I think it's you know, the the one percent is the ones that are physically talented, and then they can go make it happen and they can perform, and that's usually the mental side of the game.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: I would totally agree.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think like this the main separator from like really good to like why is it that some people, some athletes are the tip of the spear and other ones are really good.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't think talent level, they're any much better.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's gotta be the mental game.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it has to be the mental game, just confidence, execution, composure, not overthinking, short memory, yeah, all that stuff.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think the number one thing that I see, and I'm speaking specifically from the pitching side, is like guys that try to think their way through the delivery.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: The delivery happens so fast that like you can maybe fit in one cue at the very beginning, but after that, it's just like trusting your training and trusting your ability.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where guys get super domey is like nine different cues while we're trying to throw a strike.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: There's a runner on games tied, bottom of the ninth.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you're lost, but you already lost, you know.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, I think that the mental side is like has such a physical effect on what we do.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, where I feel like right now guys are just digging themselves into a hole.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, what do y'all what do y'all do with that?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because you have a domey guy and it's like you're thinking too much, overanalyzing.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my process is I try to figure out what makes the guy tick.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like more often than not, there's an outside influence, whether that's a parent, coach, girlfriend, some sort of relationship that they have that they feel like they can um use through their performance, right?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, really understanding like what are we trying to accomplish, how do we simplify it and redefining what success looks like for them.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, like just in my experience on coaching on the caller side, like everyone we going back to the velocity talk, like everyone wants to throw hard.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, like if you give up five runs in an inning but you hit 93, are you gonna think that's successful?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you're not gonna play, first off, if that's the case, if that's how you perform.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, like really understanding and redefining success for each guy and understanding what makes them tick, like gives you an idea of their thought process and understands where they're coming from and how they're approaching their training and performance in general.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's uh that may make sense, you know.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what what are your thoughts on like sports psychology and still like sports psychologists, professionals in that mental performance coaches?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean it's is that the plan to have y'all like have some on board with y'all?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think for sure.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, again, we want to be a one-stop shop, you know.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, having having somebody that you can talk to, and you know, it's like for us to a certain extent, we can help, right?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: We've been through a lot.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, y'all can relate.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we can relate for insights, yeah.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and we have perspective.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think you know, having somebody that's trained that knows, you know, what questions to ask and and how to navigate conversations is is super helpful.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so no, I think it's it's definitely, you know, it's in the works.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's something that we want to do for sure.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, my best friend back home is studying right now to do that.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: Cool.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I know, you know, for him it was career changing, just kind of diving into it a little bit more and and caring about it more.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, he was a guy that, you know, kind of had a roller coaster career and then started to kind of invest himself more um in that and learning some of the methodologies.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: He had a professor that was um very influential uh for him in college.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: And after that, it was Eddie Steady, you know.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, of course he still dealt with failure here and there, but he knows how to deal with it better.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know, he knows how to kind of take that and use it as fuel, or you know, just like know, like, is this important?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: Do I need to worry about this?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: Or do I, you know, just get back to the process and keep going?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: In your words, you mentioned like how do you play when the lights are on?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, would you like is that a major contributing factor where it's like the lights are on, you have all this training, now perform.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: There's a block, not doing well, consistent, like what the heck?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: The talent's there, the physical attributes are there.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's kind of like the artistic side that comes with coaching a little bit, is like we're also like environmental engineers.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we got to be able to know, like, it's our job to make sure this guy's ready for that.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do we do that?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: We add extra stressors, you know.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: We can do that through training, we can do that strictly through um the mental side of things too, right?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I do think that's a big block for a lot of guys.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where like a sports psychologist comes in.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's kind of like this next step, like this well-rounded service that we provide, is we can look into that a little bit more.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot more that goes into it than probably we even know at the moment.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and every you know, situation, every individual is a little different.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: But like it's also our job to understand like, okay, how what does this guy's goals look like?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Where is he currently at?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how can we recreate this environment for this guy through our training?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's a bullpen, maybe it's lifting, like just create some automated stressors for him to learn how to deal with, maybe you know, buck him off the horse, see how he responds, use that as a as a learning point.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: And ultimately, like when the lights come on, like that's when you're expected to to play and perform.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that performing at a high level there creates more opportunity, creates more success.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like that, that's what everyone is training for, right?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a track athlete training for the Olympics.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how do you prep for that?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you probably should throw yourself an environment that duplicates that or replicates that to some extent, right?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've always felt like ran with the Olympics, like track athletes like that, like made it all the way there, and then they fall start at the Olympics.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh, that would be that would be the most deflating.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: Man, it sucks.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's where you at least oh, it's a bummer, you know.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how that happened.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Just it sucks, you know.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, have you had any like really six good success stories that y'all worked with with young pitchers growing, developing, or people y'all have coached?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: You can you've been coaching a lot longer than I have.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's a lot.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I try to think of it more in terms of like, you know, again, where they started and where they're at.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Truly, some of my coolest stories aren't like a big leaguer.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a kid that made his high school team, right?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: That had no shot.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's very profound.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like that, you know, like on a totally different trajectory.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it, those are the ones close to my heart because it's like, yeah, I could take the guy that got drafted, you know, and turn him into a triple A arm, big league arm.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like he already had it.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's truly like you're starting from rock bottom.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's like the grassroots of coaching, right?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: Is like being able to speak to multiple different audiences, different levels, and kind of like break it down at each level.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it's not like this information vomit of how smart we are and what we have.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's mainly like, no, can you coach a two by four to do what you want them to do, right?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's kind of the idea.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, I don't have specific names.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's just really cool to just I take more pride in that.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I've had so much more fulfillment coaching guys than I ever did in my playing career.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I can't really remember.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: I remember two things I remember.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Remember going to an NCAA regional and winning the conference tournament.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, outside of that, like my playing career is such a blur, but like I can remember specific guys like throwing well after coming back from an injury or working their way back from Tommy John to then becoming a draft pick and now becoming a top 30 prospect in an organization.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like that stuff is really cool.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's not just I'm not saying that, like for me, it's just like it's a devotion to those guys and being able to like really put it together and trust the process where a lot of guys want to jump off the ship at the first sign of like stress, and it's like those guys buckled up and doubled down and trusted the process.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: No, I that that's a good I like that though about the the young kid that's like not doesn't have all the intangibles and made the team, you know, worked hard and like made the team.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what would you say like the like let's say you have like a young kid that's freshman in high school or wants to be in a team in high school, what are the keys to success?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Where it's like you want to be you want to play well in high school as a pitcher or as a pitcher, yeah.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um compete, maybe have a look at some D2 or D1 options in college, like play in the next level, maybe.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: What are the key sucks success for them?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, if I'm getting like a young high school kid, a lot of those kids, uh just terrible pro perception, you know, like they're just in general, they're not great athletes.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so I so like coordination, balance, movement control.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: So starting there, you know, you'd you'd love to say, like, oh, let's just hop them on the mound, let's start throwing hard, right?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like, okay, I equate it to this usually, you know, if if you want to like go run fast, you you work at, you know, running fast, you want to go jump high, you go work on jumping high, just being a generally just a good athlete, right?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: So like the throw is no different, right?
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: So yes, there there is the you know skill acquisition of going and and practicing throwing, right?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: But like, how can we just become a really good athlete?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, part of that is going and and lifting and becoming stronger.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: Some of that is sprinting and being more explosive.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and just doing things again that that gives them, you know, pro perception, um variability, you know, just giving them a lot of variability.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, um from a throwing side, it's like, you know, long toss, long toss a lot, throw from different arm slots, um, throw different weighted balls, you know, maybe a seven ounce or a six ounce as you're going out, then move to a five ounce, um, you know, throw some plyoes before you you get into long toss, um, throw bullpins, throw different types of bullpins.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: So just a lot of variability and um, you know, letting them just kind of like run with that, right?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, setting goals, I think, is a big one, you know.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like if they don't really know what to go after and they have no perspective on that, then you're just kind of like yeah, you're just you're walking in a in a dark room.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: You like you don't know what you're doing, right?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: So setting goals up front and uh that usually, you know, they'll get fired up, you know, they'll get fired up because it's like, oh, you know, I I get to that, and and then we can set more goals after that.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I think you know, that's a a thing where you know, you can kind of you have maybe a big goal, you can kind of chop it up a little bit more.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we accomplished this and then this and this and this.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then you look back and you're like, wow, look how much I've accomplished in six months and how much better I am.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, it's just it's everything really, not to you know, give such a a big answer, but I again wish it was as easy as, you know, well, you just go work on throwing hard and you're you're gonna go get offers, you know.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's working on everything.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: I would I would add to that, like it's probably, and this is not like a business plug at all, but it's like investing your resources and actually developing, right?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's 12 U and 13U tournaments.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, like how about spending that money and actually getting yourself developed, like providing those resources not just on exposure, but also on like getting better.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I also think like going back to more like the technical side, like letting them explore movements, right?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think it's really easy, especially in the pitching and hitting world, to get very technical and like robotic with what we do.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: We're in reality into one thing over and over and over again.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I I think the number one question I get asked by parents is like, should we play other sports?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: And the answer every time without hesitation is like, yes, you should.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's no doubt about it.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, again, proprio proprioception, athleticism, just overall coordination is probably a lot of kids' lowest hanging fruit for their development.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then introducing movements in the weight room, then kind of like simplifying and like really um zoning in on specific niches, like pitching, hitting, you know, fielding, whatever it is, catching, like that is what can then drive that next step of development.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: But that's like the tip of the iceberg.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like coordination, athleticism, experimental movements are probably where it all starts.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, that helps you fall in love with the game, right?
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like really love what you do is probably the overall arching theme of what we do.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think I no, I I totally agree with like the multi-sport thing.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's a couple of things that I've heard I'll get into in a second, but one of them, one of my an insight with that is like I because I played a lot of sports.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you guys you all played growing up multiple sports too.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: I feel I always liked it because I was like, if I played basketball, um, and then I like I knew I had baseball season coming up, and then I played baseball, there's a lot of carryover for different aspects of each sport.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like this made me a better baseball player, this may be a better basketball player, this may be a football player, like whatever.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then also just different perspectives like um, how can I utilize this in this next season, this game, um, the this sport versus this sport?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: There anyway, there's a lot of carryover.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then also when you remove it and you do something else, you make you might miss it more.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then over several years, you're like, I actually just like this better, and then it makes you want to do it more, you know, versus like specializing right away and then you just get burnt out, you know.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think from an injury standpoint too, you know, it's like that's what I'm gonna say next.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: So personally, and I know this is, you know, it's uh I would say uncommon.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: I have never had like any sort of arm pain, no elbow pain, shoulder pain throughout my whole career.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: And there's probably a lot of factors that go into that.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but like I was playing football, I was playing baseball, and so I wasn't throwing year round.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I wasn't going and throwing all throughout fall ball and then throwing bullpencer out the whole winter and then whole spring and whole summer.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's just like another reason to like go play sports and removing that stress for sure.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there was some that came out that my my wife's also a PT and we're talking about this like literally a couple weeks, like maybe last weekend we were driving, but um there are less likelihood of ri of injury risk um for multi-sport athletes, and then also likelihood of them excelling at a higher level for multi-sport athletes.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, one, I wonder if just like the relationship between they play more sports, um, naturally there's more coordinated and athletic.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: So they're like less like likelihood of getting injured by doing the same thing over and over again, but not as maybe just general coordination athleticism, and then also removing that individual stress for the season and then going back to it again, so taking breaks, you know.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, like about you can't do vertical jump training 365.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: But but um anyway, removing that stress, and then the other of the uh more likely like the super high-level athletes, they played, they would report that they played multiple sports when they were kids.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's carryover with like all the athleticism and then um the the relationship, team camaraderie, managing different stressful situations that could be applied for different sports, you know, where um just like being intimidated, maybe, you know what I mean?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Where it's like, well, if you played football and you're landing up with a dude that's twice your size, then I can handle this, yeah.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: This is not physically scary, you know what I mean, which is a different intimidation, you know what I mean?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I'm an advocate for all that totally.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: We're getting our kids like we have I got three kids, so we're we're getting them into like we're trying to expose them to a lot of different things, you know, with that in mind, trying to do drills and stuff with oh like coordination drills.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's like drill this game that I saw on social media, all right.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I was like, this is kind of cool.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: But it was like I had them stand at the bottom of the stairs with two like a solo cup and both kids, and then you bounce ping pong balls down the stairs and was like, Gotta catch it in the cup so it's like run over and like try to catch it.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: They did terrible, yeah.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: But they were getting you know, they were going after it.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was first time, yeah.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think about stuff like that all the time.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I don't want to sound like I'm boomer right now, but you know, are kids nowadays that you know tend to be more on like the iPads and playing video games all day, are they gonna miss out on you know some of these experiences where like I don't know when I was a kid, I'm like running through the basement, like seeing how far I can jump over this couch and like you know, I'm running up the stairs.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: I how many, how many steps is it gonna take for me to get all the way up the stairs or just just doing like crazy stuff like that?
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm surprised I didn't get hurt more, but at the same time, I'm like, I wonder if doing all of that stuff made me a better athlete.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think so.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would agree totally, and also just like the like what what I'd heard too of like agency and maybe grit, where it there's and also imagination, there's creativity, but agency being like we're bored, we don't have anything to do, and you make up games and you just like make it yourself, you know what I mean?
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that carries over a lot to like sports later and then just uh being an adult and just having the agency to like do research, figure out what you want to do, and then just like take action at doing that thing, yeah.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: Versus um, I don't know, getting the iPad stuff in your face.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: I remember trying to play like how long can I keep with the balloon up?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, like uh that's some of the most athletic moves I think I've ever made.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Diving, uh jumping over, running into people, you know, holding people down.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: Totally, man.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: Keep you uppy.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's uh there's a yeah, do you all have kids?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: I have one.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, do you guys have bluey yet?
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're like more of a paw patrol type.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: I highly recommend blue.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: Also dogs, yeah, but uh blue's a great show, and they play keep you upy in it.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's an Australian family of healer dogs, gotcha.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's very popular.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: All right, it's pretty funny.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's pretty funny.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think we've blown through every Paw Patrol episode four times now.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we should probably a wholesome show and it's super simple.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's pretty funny for like an adult.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh my gosh, like cocoa.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: You ever watch Coco Melon?
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh that Miss Rachel, you watch Miss Rachel a couple times.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that one's the worst.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: That and Coco Melon, I'm just like, oh my gosh.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: But blue is actually kind of entertaining for an adult stamp.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, they say keep you uppy on that show.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Keep you upy, yeah.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, yeah, we we call it keep up, yeah.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, diving, just run into people, yeah, it was a blast.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's that's funny, man.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: What what do you guys say?
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, all right, so the keys to success for young athletes growing up, play multiple sports, proprioception, which is like balance control, movement coordination, body kinesthetic awareness of like what you're doing, not being uncoordinated.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um when they are doing well in their high school, their varsity and they're they're a starter, right?
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: They're doing well, and they're like, I want to play college, then what?
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: Can you go ahead?
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think for me, is like the I'm gonna speak from like a recruiting standpoint here of what I look at.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: So how does he handle failure?
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of kids that are high level at in the high school is like, okay, you're probably the best player on your team.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's gonna happen when you hit failure?
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think you can do that in training and develop in general, is like if you're successful at every drill, everything you do, you're not really growing and learning.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, I think it's really pushing the boundaries on how much you can fight through the failure.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, that can be as simple as a drill.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you're crushing a drill, it's probably time for us to switch it up.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like you're now you're gonna make compensations because you're not, you're just kind of going through the motions.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but a I guess a more like wholesome look at it.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, at that level, it's like, okay, like establishing, like really having a good idea of where you may fall short.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because the second you step on college campus, you are filled with all Americans and guys that were the dudes at their own high school.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: So um just having that reality of like it's still unfinished.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're you're you're watching big leaguers right now in the playoffs that are making millions of dollars, Cy Young Awards, MVP that are like kind of going through it, you know, like they're trying to perform and figure out how they can extend their career.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think for me, it's like now it becomes like the the tip of the pen a little bit, like when it comes to development.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're really getting to like the small nitty-gritty stuff, or maybe it is pitch design stuff, maybe it is, you know, pitch selection on the hitting side or bat path, whatever it may be, um, establishing where you may fall short and ultimately like how you stack up at the next level.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think the more advanced you get, you got to start comparing yourself to the next level.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: So then that high-level college guy needs to compare themselves to that big leaguer.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that big leaguer needs to compare themselves to the all-star of the MVP.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of where it comes down to is kind of, I guess I'd look at it more of like a status quo type thing where like you shouldn't feel settled.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you're feel set, like you shouldn't feel comfortable where you're at because there's another dude breathing down your neck trying to take your spot, you know.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: The how well can they manage and handle failure?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then what do they do next if they could crumble?
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if they complain or just mope, you know what I mean?
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's uh definitely a big sign.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um you agree, like anything else you would add?
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: No, I I was, yeah, I was gonna say just like yeah, learning high-level skills, you know, like trying to, you know, if you're a high school athlete, young college athlete, it's like learning how to go be a big leaguer.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: If that's what you want to be, learning how to go be a big leaguer.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what is the process of that?
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: What does that look like for them?
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, creating routines and like knowing, like, all right, when I get to the field today, like, what does that look like for me?
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: And like, what is my process, what I'm gonna go through?
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because ultimately, like, I think, you know, kind of back to the mental side of the game, like that's what creates the consistency, you know, is just you talk to, you know, the big leaguers, any athlete at a super high level, it's like they're so ingrained into their routine and their process that results don't matter, nothing, none of the other fluff matters.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's just back to what they know makes them better.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, it's it's getting that in the heads of the, you know, those high school, college kids.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: So less outcome-based.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like I always tell guys, like, let's not focus on the results.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, you're you're gonna be tempted to go look at them.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's it's cool to know how many guys you struck out.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but ultimately, if you do that, you're gonna ride a little bit of a roller coaster, you know, because you are gonna fail.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: There, I mean, there's nobody on the planet that just doesn't ever fail, ever, you know.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: So you're gonna fail.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, how can how can you kind of be Eddie steady and um appreciate, you know, this good outing, this bad outing, but no, like can always go back to your process, and your process is what just keeps you level-headed.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: I wish I would have known that when I was you know playing sports, like not outcome-based, focus on what you know habits and consistency routines that you know are gonna lead to the best results, and not being like, yeah, results driven, where it's like you're gonna be a roller coaster, you know, and then you're crushed.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm bad, I'm good.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm bad again, and then yeah, it sucks.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: I heard this to be honest, I can't remember where I heard this.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was from a big leaguer, but it's like sometimes the game gets in the way of training.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, I got a game today.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like they fall in love with the process so much that it gets to the point of like that's what they're looking for.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's how they compare and compete compete with themselves.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it's also, I mean, sometimes even as a coach, like when I was in college, like the idea of winning and losing ballgames got in the way of development.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're trying to play the guys and and put the arms there on the mound that can help you win a ball game, where like that takes away time from helping Timmy, who could help us next year, you know, or help us next week.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's more of like a process thing where like you fall in love with the process and then just get to express it during the game.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then you find the next hole in your game and then you go attack that for your next performance.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, love that.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: Another thing I was gonna say um that with like the high level, like people kids that are like doing well, you know, and they're comfortable, they're do, they're they're feeling themselves, right?
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: Which is good, you gotta get confident, is training with other like-minded athletes that are a little bit better.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: And you go in this study facility and you're like, oh sh, like shoot, like these guys are getting after it, you know.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like I thought I was doing my workouts hard, but that was not compared to what they're doing, right?
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's like eye-opening, and then you want to be like them, you know, and you surround yourself with that.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: I've always that's always been I enjoyed I enjoyed that.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then also when it's necessary to stimulate a bit of humility in the right athletes, like you think you're working hard, dude.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like let's go, let's go to this place.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think that's the the great thing about you know our facility, um, and you know, some of these other environments that you can get into is you might you might be able to, you know, have a high schooler with a big leaguer, and yeah, they're not at the same level, but they're like, that's what I gotta if if I want to go accomplish my goals, like that's what I gotta get to, you know?
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I think getting in that environment's very real.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, getting into it, you can also kind of allow that to elevate you, right?
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you're you're in an environment where you know guys aren't working as hard or they don't care as much as you know, you do, then I mean, you know, you might get better, but it's it's probably not gonna push the needle as as much as if you were in that other environment.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I think training environment in general is is huge.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think that even goes to, you know, like we have a nice facility, but like nothing's gonna be just like a great culture.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I think more than anything, like that's what we want to create is like, yeah, we have a nice facility, we have some cool gadgets, but like the training culture is just incredible.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: And you get in here and like you are gonna get better because yeah, we have high-level coaches, but the people that you're around, everything that you're doing is gonna push you up.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think just the fear of being exposed, of not fitting that that culture is probably like the biggest driver of FOMO, yeah, imposter syndrome, whatever it is, it's like, man, I gotta step it up.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I mean relating it back to like that high school, like that's usually the first thing is walking in the weight room your freshman year and going, uh oh.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, like it's time to ramp it up here.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think in general, um, yeah, I mean, just I don't need to sp say it anymore.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: Culture's like the driver, right?
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: Behind everything.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: It sets the tone, it creates the environment, and then you can just let it ride with that.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the most common injuries y'all see?
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: Same thing we talked about.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, obviously the elbow.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: Elbow's the big one.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, shoulder is probably number two, back, hips, you know.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um those are probably the big ones.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the big ones.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, outside of like some soft tissue type stuff, those are like what we deal with on a day-to-day basis, some flexor strain that then leads to the elbow stuff, which probably starts in the shoulder or the back.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's just like always compensating factors.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: I would say honestly, like over the last five, ten years, like the TOS has become like I don't know.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think it started as like a blanket of like we're not really sure what's going on, and now it's like an actual thing, right?
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: And trying to figure that out.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, but I would say elbow, shoulder, back is probably the issues.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um thoracic outland syndrome we were talking about.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's I would I don't disagree.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, like uh that could definitely happen, you know, for sure.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it's something to tease out, you know, like where the symptoms coming from, what's contributing, but it's not uncommon that it's like rooted because of a shoulder instability problem.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: There was this this thrower we were working with that they were having like referred nerve pain, and there was manifesting in their elbow, you know, and so everyone's like working on like, oh, it's tennis elbow or you know, golfer's elbow, maybe whatever, and they're just like crushing it.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's not getting better.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: I suppose it's getting a little bit more sensitive and worse, what they're telling me.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, I was like, I I it's ref I think it's brachial plexus compression irritation because of a shoulder instability at layback.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: So like the anterior instability, anterior weakness, anterior instability um that's causing that.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: And anyway, a really common thing that I've seen.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: Y'all tell me what you think too.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um with medial elbow pain, inside elbow pain, the first thing that we usually check out was for sure the shoulder, and they're usually lacking enough pure external rotation.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: Or like they're they're stiff and going to ER.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: I would say, and I he's he's the genius on this, but I think overall pitchers in general need to pay attention to lat and peck.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like those usually get locked up, and that's like the first sign of like we need to adjust something.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: But you go ahead.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: You're the genius.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, it's I think it's a thing where it's it's easy where you could, you know, look at elbow pain.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh, we gotta fix the elbow, you know.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um but it's more complex than that, you know.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, okay, the elbow hurts.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, how does a scap move?
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: How does a shoulder work?
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe let's let's look there.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and if the scap and and the shoulder aren't good, maybe let's look at the T-spine.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: How's a T-spine?
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_02: So um I think it's like what we do well.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's all inclusive.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna look at everything and address everything and truly figure out like what the root cause is because I'm so tired of kids just wanting to ice their arm.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, brother, you're putting a band-aid on a broken arm right now.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like we're not fixing anything, you know, and the epidemic of popping ibuprofen before every outing, you know, it's like, you know, we can only do this so much.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_02: Let's maybe go fix some stuff, get some things moving better.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: I also think, and this, you know, this is a hard truth, but I think somebody's just some bodies are just not meant to throw the ball as well as others, you know, like not everybody is going to go back squat as well as another person, you know.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_02: So um that's not ideal, you know.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_02: You can you can improve things for, you know, some guys, but sometimes guys are just gonna be more injury ridden than others.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that sucks, but you're just gonna have to work even harder and make sure that you're doing the soft tish, you're doing um some of your correctives and and making sure that like whatever you can do, you are doing to try to help that.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: I uh yeah, unfortunately, I I don't disagree with you, you know.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I would also put that too, like, because people have asked me, like, how does this this pain develop, right?
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where did it come from?
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think it's it's finally now overwhelmed to a point where it's sending symptoms, signals to pain, like the straw to put the camel's back, and now every the chickens are coming home to roost because of underlying movement pattern, dysfunction, limitations and mobility, certain areas, a lack of strength or stability in other areas, and then all the compensations, like you were saying, come to play.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I totally agree, though, pecking a lat are usually pretty dominant and it can it can mess up the mechanics in the shoulder.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but with just overall general uh coordination and proprioception and movement mechanics and movement control as like kids that then set the stage for their movement patterns through early adolescence and then through like later high school, and now they're 18.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: I like that's usually what I pitch to people where I'm like, I think it just started when you were a kid.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, with the way that you just learned how to move and groove.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then you didn't have like a you know, a pro person like analyze your movement mechanics when you're eight, you know.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: Nor should you, it's like gonna do that, right?
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not gonna happen.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's ridiculous.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then until like some things just manifest later because of those were the way you learned, and then now it's just manifesting for all the repetitions, thousands of reps, and all the force and torque being put through that.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: Now we're it's getting exposed.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: Would you I don't know, would you agree with that?
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's what you were saying earlier, pretty much.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: No, I I totally agree.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think the other thing, too, with kind of the epidemic of elbow pain is I think an overlooked um factor with it is the overall volume and intent and people just doing a better job at being able to dose those out and and truly like following good throwing programs, you know.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I think again, it's it kind of can go back to, yeah, your your elbow is hurting now, but like, you know, what what happened when you were 14 when you maybe like threw way too much, or something that you have, you know, happened in sophomore year of high school.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just like it's an evolution of maybe small things that are starting to add up now, right?
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I think one thing that I pitch to a lot of our athletes is, you know, maybe maybe you're throwing as as hard as you want to right now.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe everything in your career is is going how you want to, but having somebody that can kind of just guide you through a good program, especially on the throwing side of things, can be helpful.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because I think just making good micro decisions over time can make that career last a whole lot longer, you know.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um and one of those would be just dosing the dosage of throwing.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think where it really gets messed up a lot of times is uh, you know, the the on-ramp period.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_02: So the on-ramp period is like basically if you haven't been throwing and now you're starting to get back into throwing.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_02: For a lot of guys, I think you would talk to them and it's just like, oh, I just need to like, you know, play catch a couple times and then have like one or two bullpins, and then they're good, they're going and they're throwing in the game.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, I see why the shoulder's bugging you right now, you know.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_02: I highly recommend don't do that.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, I think you see it in major league baseball.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like spring training is gonna start up in February, and we will have at least one big time arm go down with Tom and John.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the on-ramp, in our experience, is like the window that we got to be careful with.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we got to take our time through the on-ramp.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_00: Most injuries happen during that on-ramp.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the silent killer to once for when my athletes that I've had is the undocumented volume, right?
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, maybe it's supposed to be like a light catch date.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: The next thing you know, you're pulling down 10 times, trying to see how hard, like that is volume that is getting attacked on.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we got to look at it as like a year-round volume count, not just today, right?
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: And how that affects tomorrow, next week, your season.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's hard too, because you know, as an athlete, it's like you want to go push it.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_02: And for pitchers, especially, you're not like a hitter where you can just go hit in the cage every single day.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: You only get so many days where you can go throw a bullpen or you can be high effort.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so that that sucks.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: But I try to have a lot of conversations with my guys and explain to them like, hey, we are trying to like make those adaptations on those days.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_02: These other days, not that we're going through the motions, but we're trying to not do a whole lot of damage on these days, you know.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's still important to pattern on these days and work on the skill acquisition, but like, let's not ruin it for these other days.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so yeah, it's it's the it's the volume over time.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I look, I look at it as you have a like a spending budget, you have a throwing budget.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, you spend way too fast, way too early in the week or the month, or maybe on that on-rent period, and then you're at zero, you're at negative by the time you know you need to go spend money or you need to go throw a bullpen or outing.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, you know, how can how can you be aware of that?
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, there's there's devices and stuff now where you can kind of objectively tell, like, you know, how much are you throwing?
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what's the, you know, what's the intensity, how much it's, you know, stressing.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, valgus and the elbow.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's tools like that, and I think they're extremely helpful.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_02: And um, not that you have to get obsessed with that, like, you know, at some point, like we are gonna have to push the needle a little bit, but you know, it's yeah, too much volume, too, too much intent, and it not being regulated over time start it starts to add up, and and that's where you know something eventually starts to creep in.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_02: What about workouts during the on-ramp period?
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I think offseason training, get after it.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then around late mid-December start throwing again.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean or January.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: Just kind of depends on yeah, the routine that they're in.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, then that on ramp, let's say like late January, early February.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: What is what do you recommend for workouts during that time?
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think it comes down to more volume management.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think the old school thought is like, hey, stay out of the weight room, like maintenance.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you're a high-level athlete, you should probably also be high level in the weight room.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: Weight rooms develop maintenance.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're building the engine.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like when you're playing, you're pressing the gas on that engine.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, if you're not ready and you're redlining, that's where it blows apart, right?
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um who's still saying get out of the weight room for maintenance?
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're surprised.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you'd be shocked.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm surprised.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think it's just different times, right?
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: Different times, everyone's different generation.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: Different generation, maybe.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think you know, talking about like just overall volume, like I think you can take that one step further further, and like overall volume just isn't throwing, it's like the training volume, right?
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um if you we've all have these athletes where it's like they want to just be in the weight room and you kind of have to reel them in, like, hey, like you maxing out on back squat is actually killing the velocity, even though you think you're building it, right?
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um next thing you know, your CNS is fried, you start compensating to try to perform at a high level, boom, your elbow pops.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's kind of like just you know, I love his analogy on like the spending, but like you have a certain amount in the bank account, where are you gonna allocate that?
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you're a guy that's getting a ton of innings, a lot of outings, well, you probably got to spend that more in the weight room.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: Where if you're like a guy that needs to focus on the delivery, well, you can spend more money on throwing than right, but you only have a certain amount of money to spend.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I think taking it one step further outside of just throwing, it's training.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like your training volume has a huge effect on what you can then provide when your name's called to perform.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: So gotcha.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh what type of workouts end with this.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: What does a typical workout look like for you guys?
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: You talk about the assessment, full body, on getting under the hood, all that stuff.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, okay, cool, that's work out.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: What do you all programming look like?
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_02: Again, it's you know, it's obviously different for each guy.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um so for myself, um, you know, I like to um taking in consideration like right-handed pitcher, left-handed pitcher, um, ISA, are they narrow?
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_02: Are they wide?
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um what's ISA?
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, just kind of looking at um, are they like a wider structure?
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_02: Are they a more narrow structure?
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so for you know, wider guys, I'm probably gonna stay with uh more kind of like uh bilateral type of movements.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, narrow guys, I think um doing more unilateral movements is fine with them.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um kind of knowing like, you know, are they a guy where they, you know, they need to improve um rate of force production, maybe placing a little bit more of a focus on that.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, maybe they are a brick and like we need to really, you know, focus on, you know, rowing in different planes, uh, pressing in different planes.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so it just kind of depends on, you know, like what they need.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's not like we have, you know, a workout that we're gonna give to five different athletes and it's all gonna be the same cookie cutter.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_02: So um just looking at, you know, different aspects and their strengths and their weaknesses and what kind of body they are.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_02: Again, like, you know, right-handed pitcher, left-handed pitcher, are they um are they a big body?
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_02: Are they tall?
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_02: Are they shorter?
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and just trying to, you know, create good movement solutions for them and and what's gonna work for them.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything that y'all definitely stay away from for upper body lifts workouts for for throwers?
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um so it kind of just depends.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like if they're dealing with maybe some shoulder issues, and we're we're definitely gonna be a little bit more careful.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um in my opinion, like as long as you're completely healthy, um, you know, maybe we're not doing like aggressive, like military press.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we're we're certainly going to do some overhead movements.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna be um we're gonna be pressing overhead, we're gonna, you know, do some pull-ups and um allow the body to get in those ranges of motion and and feel strong in those ranges of motion.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it kind of depends on injury history.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but if if I think it's a good idea, I'm probably gonna make them do it.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm gonna date myself here, but like when I was playing, it was like pitchers, no bench press.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_00: Or or overhead.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_00: Or overhead, like you're gonna be squat monsters, like you're gonna go squat and deadlift like crazy, and that's gonna make you.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: Even better.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's like, I mean, you said it like the peck is very important in the mechanic of a throw.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: The lat is like we are benching.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like the bench is a real thing.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I really think part of it's like finding end range, being strong at those end ranges, right?
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_00: So then the ligament doesn't have to take over the move.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um and also like you got to throw your athletes a little bone.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe they love benching or you know, maybe they love squatting.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, get them engaged, get them engaged in what you're doing.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um some excitement.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that gets some the buy-in a little bit.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: And more consistency.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think really where it comes down to is like the volume management.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, some of our athletes love lifting on game day.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then you got to realize, like, okay, are they a reliever?
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: Are they a starter?
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's so much easier to program for a starter because you're like on a set schedule.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like you may have a reliever that's like, hey, I'm gonna pitch today and tomorrow.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, we still got to fit in our lift, right?
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_00: So like let's prime it today.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that way you can perform um today and tomorrow.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: So how y'all feel about lifting on game day?
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because we used to we used to lift on game day.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_01: I used to lift on game day.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'd I I was fine.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I would get after it.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then like it would be in the morning, obviously, and I'd have several hours.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'd do some recovery stuff, and then it was fine.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_02: I usually just have a conversation with them, um, maybe try it out.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's uh for a starter, probably not.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like they're gonna exhaust a lot of energy.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_02: Starting picture is different, yeah.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_02: Reliever, a little bit different.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_02: Try it, you know, and it's gonna be it's gonna be something where you get in the gym and you get out.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_02: A little primer, um, get the body moving, get you feeling good, but you should not be in there very long.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_02: You should not feel fatigued, you should not feel tired, you should feel pretty good and like ready to go later in the day.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's probably like what I'm gonna have them mess around with.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but even even then, you're gonna have guys where they're just like, you know what, I'd rather just show and go.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_02: And in that case, that's fine.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, maybe we'll hit something.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we'll hit something tomorrow, maybe then.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm not gonna like run a marathon this morning and then pitch a full game tonight.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_00: I have a guy that um currently in professional baseball that like loves bench pressing.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, all right, before you go out, like hit a bench or like do some push-ups, and like we just gotta make sure like the tissue quality remains okay and you're not becoming a caveman.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_00: But like it's a primer for him.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's more mental than anything, like getting you lots of it.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like the smelling salt, right?
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_01: Get them going a little bit.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I think I love that.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's because the mind, like the brain, the mind is such a powerful thing, you know.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, for sure.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_00: I also think it's we for the most part work off of like a high low model.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like I like having my guys whether lift before or after.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you're gonna throw today, like you should also get a high intent lift in today.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because the next thing you know, you do it tomorrow.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's not a recovery day.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_00: The next thing you know, you've gone a month without a recovery day and you're getting barking pain somewhere.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, you have been going for a long, long time without taking a break.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, I guess that kind of answers your question in terms of like lifting on game day.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, yeah, we probably should, you know, within within means, you know.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then play and then as best as you can playing out recovery days, yeah, rest days, right?
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_02: I also think recovery days get thrown out there in my brain, you know, you're either recovering or not, right?
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like what's that look like?
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, like, you know, so you know, guys will throw out like uh like I'm I'm gonna do a recovery lift, recovery throwing.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're like you're still stressing the system a little bit.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_02: Now, yeah, you're not stressing it a lot, but um personally on on recovery days for my guys, like if if you know the schedule allows them to, I'm gonna probably keep them out of the weight room and yeah, maybe like take throwing off too, like just go to a movie or go hang out with a girlfriend or something.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like in my mind, that's a recovery day.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um now you you do have those guys where it's like is that is that recovery with the girlfriend?
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you do have those guys that like they just have to be in the gym.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, okay, like we can, we can, you know, figure some stuff out.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_02: But um I think it's it's you know, just like finding that balance.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so yeah, for me, I'm like, yeah, I mean, we can we can have these like recovery days, but um, I think like true recovery is just like not doing anything and and going like actually resting, chilling.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's um that recovery part, like for a lot of high-level active people, you know, um, obviously high-level athletes, that stuff needs to be planned in, you know, because it's not, and then you're like, I didn't even have I haven't really rested in like a long time.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and like you're breaking down, plateauing, overtraining.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then the people that we've worked with were like, yo, take, like, don't do anything for four, maybe even five days in a row, like relax.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're gonna be good, trust me.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then they come back and they're like, I feel way better.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's like and I was like, it's exactly it's exactly what I needed.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I I had a feeling yeah, you just it was just stacking up a lot.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, more doesn't always mean better, it just means more, right?
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, um, at some point you gotta account for that.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we see that a lot, like with going back to the throwing.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like that happens a lot.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, pitched yesterday, felt really good the next day, but then I pitched the next day.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, that's like just because you feel good doesn't mean you get to like take it to the red line again, right?
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like you gotta plan this out.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank y'all for coming in.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh thank you.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_01: Share with people what's the best way to reach out to you guys and how they can find you.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_02: So uh at GoPrime Performance on Instagram, and I think that's at goprimeperformance.com uh goprime performance on Instagram and goprimeperformance.com.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_01: Up in Port St.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_01: Lucie.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_00: Port St.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_00: Lucie.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_00: We're right across the street from the Mets Spring Training Complex.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_00: Foul ball away.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_00: Foul ball away.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_00: Foulball.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you all for coming in, and um, we'll definitely have to get y'all on again.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're planning on coming up and seeing you guys next week to visit Seattle's facility, and we'll we'll definitely blast you know socials and get all that stuff out there.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have any questions for us, we're always open to comments, questions, concerns, conflicting opinions.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if y'all are battling any pain, please don't hesitate to reach out.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_01: We can at least chat on the phone and see if you're a good fit or maybe where to send you or what to do.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we're always open to having conversations and helping people, and we'll catch y'all next time.