Latest / The Elevator Careers Podcast / 38 Years in the Elevator Industry, From Australia to the US | Jason Armistead

Transcript

38 Years in the Elevator Industry, From Australia to the US | Jason Armistead · The Elevator Careers Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when that's running, it's a A-class building down there in the business district, and uh, you know, some some really high high class tenants, and uh when you you see them using the using the system and you know giving you a happy smile and two thumbs up as they see you in the in the in the lobby as you're sort of you know keeping an eye on it.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's something there's something just just when you you bring that smile to somebody's face, and I mean elevators aren't normally something people smile about much, right?
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, generally it's uh it's I hope I don't get trapped in this done.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Or you know, you normally hear the bad side of things, but to see the good part of it, and there's obviously a lot of good.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we move a lot of people around the world, sure, you know, around the US and Canada every day on our products.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, that's something we that every elevator engineer, I mean, from the people who who design it to the people in the factories who build it to the the customers that we sell to who install it and service it, they should be proud.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's a it's a pretty unique uh industry in that regard.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, and welcome to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the Allred Group.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: I am your host, Matt Allred.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: In this podcast, we talk to the people whose lives and careers are dedicated to the vertical transportation industry to inform and share lessons learned, building upon the foundation of those who have gone before to inspire the next generation of elevator careers.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Today's guest is Jason Artef, software engineering manager with DFL manufacturers.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Jason started in the elevator industry as a 17-year-old after responding to an ad newspaper.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Also worked on elevator engineers often five to find trade satisfactories, contained that software and innovation has been used and appreciated by customers.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: While working in the software realm, he has also been fortunate to spend a lot of time in the field at job sites, along many talented mechanics and field engineers.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Jason has had a long and fulfilling career, and he encourages others to consider the elevator industry as a rewarding career path.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Jason, welcome to the show.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Hi Matt, it's good to be here.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's good to have you.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's always fun talking with you.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so to be able to dig a little bit deeper into your background is uh is something I've been looking forward to.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just curious, did you ever in your life think you would grow up to be an elevator professional?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: I I I I grew up in a small country town where probably the biggest uh elevators were a couple of you know three-stop hydraulics.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: So and and obviously not in the US, right?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up in Australia, a couple hours south of Sydney.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Nice, nice.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: So so how did you decide you wanted to be an engineer?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, uh, interesting story.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: My grandfather was in uh construction, he did a lot of uh excavation and uh you know the Sydney Airport runways, his company reclaimed some land for that.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my dad was a civil engineer, he uh worked for the main roads department for the state, and then he worked for the local town council in the town I grew up.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I guess I was surrounded by engineering influences for a lot of my life.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: What was it that you think that first like started clicking in your mind that, hey, I really want to want to be an engineer, I want to take things apart and put them back together and yeah, interesting.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, I I remember I'd go in sometimes with my dad to the council.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: He sometimes did some after hours work on a weekend.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'd go in there and he'd you know, he'd uh do his thing and he'd uh the computer terminal there, I'd I'd play around, do some games on that.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, you log me into the games account they had, um, which was always fun.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I picked up some computer books there, and I'm like, eh, maybe I can learn to program.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, our school got a computer at Apple II when I was in seventh grade.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I beat the teacher at a game called Lemonade Stands, so I was kind of hooked on that.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then um, you know, my visit my grandfather's place, he had an old combination radio and uh record player.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: When he was getting rid of that, I got the screwdrivers out and pulled it apart and looked at all the you know uh capacitors and and valves and everything that was inside that.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess I had the engineer gene um driving me along.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, what was it that got you started in elevators?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, interesting.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I finished high school uh and I enrolled in a uh electrical engineering uh degree, and the university I was doing it at was a uh one that only offered it part-time.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it took six years of part-time study to um to actually complete that, and you had to get industrial experience.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: So originally I'd applied for a few jobs.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, some I got rejected from.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one was with the state railways, which um sounded interesting.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the other one was with Otis Elevator.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um there was a small ad in the the Sydney newspaper, it was about probably a couple of inches square, and it just said training engineers wanted.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh so I contacted them um and didn't hear back from them initially.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Ended up briefly working for the railways, and then Otis said, Hey, we'd like to interview you.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: So um I came in for the interview and uh they offered me a job.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I So as a training engineer, you essentially had high school under your belt.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's pretty impressive that uh I guess they you know just would bring you in with really, you know, you obviously you're you're college yet to go, you're so much yet to do.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: That was that's neat.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I'd done a good number of engineering uh subjects you know in the last couple of years of high school.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um in Australia, you have like a higher school certificate that you complete year 12 with, and so you have two-year courses.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I'd done you know physics and chemistry and advanced math and an engineering science uh class on materials and tech drawing and stuff like that.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess I had some, you know, some credential.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was a top two percent student in the state.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that was always a bonus.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, they took a they took a chance on me for sure.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, but my manager at the time, uh a guy called Ken Muller, he he believed in you know getting people in early and and training them up, you know, and he saw that as a good opportunity for the company.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it seems to have stuck.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you've you've been with the industry how long now?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's coming up on uh 38 years.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that's awesome.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: How long was it before you as a 17, 18 year old, were like, oh, hey, this is this is what I want to do, right?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: This is not just a job, but this is becoming me.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, I was fortunate.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the people at Otis were were good people that I started working with, and uh, they really took me under their wing and were keen to you know teach me everything that they'd uh learn.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, some of the people were you know, people that had done controller designs and and worked on a lot of their then current products.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and I was I was young Jason to some of the older uh draftsmen in the in the department, the engineering department.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I in fact I still get called that when I catch up with them from time to time.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm still young Jason.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh, you know, they gave me a lot of opportunities and and I really enjoyed, I mean, the people, the nature of the work.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, sometimes I think you can get pigeonholed into just doing one thing.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: But elevators offer a broad range of uh of different technologies and different aspects, you know, whether it's uh purely electrical, for me, the software, which is ultimately where I I've gone most, um, you know, the design, the the opportunity to uh you know do some problem solving and uh you know creating new and innovative products.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, all those things are part of of what our industry offers.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: So did did your job uh I mean you you said it was like a six-year program, so it took you six or so years to finish your degree, and then I mean, did your job change dramatically once you finished your degree, or did it just kind of all come together, all work together from the beginning?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: It it it um I mean it definitely changed over the course of those years.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: It was end up being longer than six years um for a bunch of reasons.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um but uh you know, initially I spent some time with a draftsman redrawing.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: I remember it was uh it was uh a hotel dumbwaiter out in in Perth in Western Australia.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I remember redrawing that one um as one of my first little little forays to understand just the symbols on a wiring digress.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and then it was working with uh you know other electrical engineers and and software, um, doing some programming with the early early systems, and it just went from there.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: So uh what would you say you love most about the industry?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you obviously made it your career.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, stuck with it.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a lot of things.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, for one, the people.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, definitely.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's such a variety of great people in our industry, and a lot of people that are really passionate about it.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'd say they're you know true craftsmen, you know, at the top of their game, whether that's uh you know, people designing and they've got a real passion for design, or the installers who who do such a great job of getting getting a building up and running initially, or the maintenance mechanics um who keep the equipment running.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, my boss sent me out uh probably I don't know, three or four months in, and he he sent me out with a with a field mechanic on a route in in the Sydney Central Business District.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, go out there for you know four months, learn, learn all you can about elevators, and then come back and tell me everything you learned.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And and so I was I was with a mechanic, I was wearing the overalls and the steel cap boots and all that sort of stuff, and uh you know, going to classes in the afternoons and evenings, um, because that was the way it was with my degree program.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so that's what I did.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I painted machine room floors, I you know, cleaned door locks on the top of a car, you know, swept out pits, recovered people's keys and umbrellas and everything they dropped, um, you know, helped help with breakdowns, carried tool bags up, you know, 16 flights of stairs when the only elevator in the building was out of service, uh, a bit of everything.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a good time to be around a bunch of great people.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right, right.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like a true immersion in in the industry to from the field to the engineering to just kind of seeing everything that goes into it.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I I think I I count myself very fortunate that that you know he he gave me such great opportunities.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I went out again for another three months on construct new construction and you know got to see how that side of the business worked.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, again, just go out and learn.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that was that was that was it.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I I still love um you know field work whenever the opportunity arises.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's still a highlight of my uh my career to spend time on job sites working on great projects with people that are really you know top of their game.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I've I've certainly had the opportunity to work with people that have worked on some of the you know biggest installs around the world.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, up to you know, the people that worked on Birch Khalifa.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: I I know a few of those were colleagues of mine and uh you know good people doing great things.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that's awesome.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's really cool.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: What what would you say is the most rewarding thing you do or have done throughout your career?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think definitely some of the the the um the development projects uh that I've worked on.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I've a lot of the times it it's it's simple things just to get uh a product introduced uh you know for the first time.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um we had uh one project that involved uh an older controller that Otis had, the Elevonic 401, that customers wanted to upgrade.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time there was no solution available.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, you know, we were challenged by our customers in Australia to come up with a way of doing that effectively for them.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so I pretty much solo worked on that for probably 12 months or so, um, you know, developing an interface and some software that brought the new generation of controllers and the old, old one together in a way that was seamless to the customer and uh and certainly saved a lot of time and uh headaches on a on modernization to get it done.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, and I think you you told me a little bit about that, that that was really the customers that that were pushing.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas when you talk to the people at headquarters in the US, they're like, We don't we don't even see a need for that because our customers haven't said anything, but the Australian customers are are like banging on your door saying, get this done, it sounds like exactly, yeah.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think I think you know, having traveled a little bit around the the world and and the elevator industry, you know, you realize that Australians, for whatever reason, just love new technology and you know look for new new solutions.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think part of it's maybe because they're so far from the rest of the the world, you know.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, everything in Australia is a long haul flight to get to you know Europe or Asia or or the US.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I think they they pride themselves in wanting to you know push things along because if they don't do it, no one else will for them.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it'll be years until it actually shows up in Australia if they're not pulling for it, right?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean, interesting fun fact, um, destination dispatching, which is a uh current product, it was developed by a guy called Leo Port, who was an Australian way back in the it's either the late 50s or early 60s.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: But but it never you know really took off because the technology wasn't ready for his idea, and it took a lot longer till uh you know early 90s before sort of became so he had the the theory, the thought, and everything, and just just not the technology to support it, apparently.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, yeah.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so uh that is fascinating.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: So so tell me how the the Otis 401 modernization project really helped shape your career because you mentioned you'd been working on it for kind of a year, I guess, on your own.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, pretty much.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, apart from a small bit of hardware that another engineer worked on, um, it was pretty much me solo.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I spent a lot of time in machine rooms late at night uh at a job site in downtown Sydney and ironing all that out for the first job.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, then there was another uh job in Melbourne, and then um there was some interest in the US when I sort of said, hey guys, this is what we've come up with.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it works for us, maybe it'll work for you.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um and from there, there was a few jobs in um one in one in Texas that went in and one in in New York City at uh 1585 Broadway, uh that they used the the software we provided a couple of bits of hardware and they they used it there.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and from there, I guess, you know, they saw that yes, this was this was viable, it worked.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, let's figure out how to productize it a little more than we could with delivered resources in Australia.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: So so help me just you know, obviously not being nearly as as educated in in some of these things as as you are, and maybe some for some of our listeners that um what was it that you were accomplishing?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you were you were basically taking the 401 and what connecting it to newer technology or something like that?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh Otis's current product at that time was the 411 controller, um, which was a different, a completely different uh architecture.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: It had it had different um ways of communicating with the controllers.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: They hadn't even built it to integrate with their own system, in other words.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Correct, yeah.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, for when 401 came out, it was um it was actually done by some guys uh that worked for Hamilton Test Systems, which was a division.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh let me give you some history.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Otis was was uh originally a standalone company until 76, and then uh United Technologies bought Otis.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so it became part of a V UTC's umbrella, and that included uh a company called Hamilton Test Systems, which did um avionics type work.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and if you looked at the 401 controller, it looked like it could have been on you know a rack of electronics in a a warplane or on a you know a space station or something like that.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um it definitely didn't look like anything Otis had ever done because you know these other engineers designed it.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that was sort of 79.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so then you know Otis subsequently developed the the 411 series of products and the other other products in that family, and that was really a German, predominantly German-driven initially, and then with the US involved, and it was just a completely different group of engineers, and they never thought about you know how to uh how to interface the old with the new.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: There was it was basically a clean slate design that didn't incorporate anything from 401.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: So why was it that the Australians kind of pushing ahead were like, hey, this needs to connect?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: What were what problems were they kind of bumping into as they were dealing with that?
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I mean, the the biggest problem you have whenever you modernize a group of elevators is that inevitably, if you have, say, you know, six elevators to modernize them, you've got to take one out of service.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: So straight so straight away you go from you know having six to five.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: And and the first thing that happens is in a busy building is you lose you know the ability to handle as much traffic as effectively by being a car down.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so then when you've got that controller modernized, now you have five of the old and one of the new, and there's no way for them to share the load between the old and the new.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and obviously, you know, then you get to the point where you've got four old cars and two new ones, and oh wow, the ratio keeps on changing.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, you could put in separate hole buttons for each one, but then people being people will press both buttons, which makes both systems busy, right?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so what I did, and and we we dubbed it chameleon, and and the reason was you know, you know, the little colorful lizards that change colors to let camouflage themselves.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: And and so, you know, the the software that I did, which one of the one it was another engineer, a field guy, came up with that name.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but effectively it allowed you to mimic the 401 cars.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: So the 401 had a group a separate group controller cabinet, and it it thought that it was talking to a just another 401 when in fact it was talking now to a new 411.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so so that meant that you know, you you press one lot of whole buttons, the 401 group dispatcher makes the decision, happens to send it to a 400 411 car modernized, and it goes away and answers the whole call, and and you know, it just looks like another 401 car.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: So you never really have to go through it, almost sounds like yeah, some kind of uh uh bottleneck where where if you're in you know modernizing these six, you're gonna end up with a group of three and three or two and four, and it's gonna be awkward for for quite some time, depending on how long it takes you to get through those.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and and in Australia in particular, they had they used you know one of uh Otis's monitoring systems.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: And again, you know, the security guard or whoever's looking at that, all he saw was a group of six elevators, and he couldn't tell which was old or which was new.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and when people use their you know, card reader and swipe their card, and when they got in the elevator to register the call, that also went through that system and it just was all seamless.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, so you know, that's that's something.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the end user experience in everything we do matters.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, whether it's that sort of case or it's it's a mechanic, you know, interfacing with the equipment and trying to you know do diagnostics or uh or set it up, you know, trying to make that easy for them is is definitely something, you know, as a software person, I definitely keep in mind because you know, going back to my early field experience, you know, I work with a fairly experienced mechanic.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: He could listen to the relays on those old relay logic controllers, you know, clatter, clatter, clatter, nothing, clatter, clatter.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, well, something's missing in the middle there, right?
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he just had the ear for that.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like Morse code, like almost like that, yeah.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, whereas with software, I mean, it's it's completely silent.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and a lot of what it does is completely invisible, whereas those relay controllers, I mean, you could see, you know, relays in, relays out, right, you know, and all them changing, right?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: So so that's that's that's something that's really changed now industry.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's it's hard because you know people can't see what's going on behind the behind the scenes anymore.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, sure.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got you've obviously got to have the some kind of digital readout or or some kind of you know device to to tell what's going on.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so tell me you you mentioned um, you know, just some of the feedback that you had gotten.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh or or I'm trying to remember, you you had come to the US, I think because of that project, right?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because of the 401, and you know, you you spent this time creating it, and now there's demand, and it's like, oh, we need somebody who knows what this is and how to implement it.
• 21:36
  unknown: Yeah.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit about that.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: There was one project, it was out in Chicago at the Aeon Center, the old standard oil building.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's about, I think it's 75 or so floors high, and they had double deck 401s there.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and the work I'd done in Australia was for for a single deck 401s.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: So so they wanted to to modernize those.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was an eight car group, so big.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Big, big job.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, biggest Otis machines, the 339 HTS, which are taller than I am.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And they were doing the mod there.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so again, you know, being able to put this software in was going to really help them with this with this mod process.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, because it was the first of type and I'd written the original software.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: We had a plan.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was going to come to Connecticut for about a week, spend some time with the engineers there, then traveled with one of them, a guy called Dave Hughes, out to Chicago and spend a week there and getting this, you know, dialed in and making sure it all worked the way everyone hoped it would.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: So uh so yeah, traveled there with Dave.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: And Dave said, you know, the field engineer out in Chicago, uh, you know, he's he's he's you know, he's gonna ask a few questions about what you're what's going on.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: And sure enough, we get there and he's like, So why is this guy from Australia come all the way to Chicago for this project?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what could he possibly do that you know I couldn't do?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, so we went and had lunch and sat down with Bobby and explained exactly why I was here.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And he was still a little skeptical.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we we you know, we got to the job site and uh, you know, got to the point where we could put the software in and give it a whirl.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, Wow, this is amazing! So, you know, that was that was definitely a fun moment, you know.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, we got that project done and uh it uh went very smoothly.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: So right.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, did did that have any bearing on you actually moving to the US?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because you obviously you were getting known at at headquarters and out in the field.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: And how did that work that you you came to the US?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so uh you know, Otis's headquarters are in in in uh Farmington, Connecticut, and uh at the and shortly after that project, you know, probably about uh six months later, uh you know, they reached out to me and and uh the manager of the group that wanted to hire me actually had worked in Australia.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: He started his career there um you know while I was still a training engineer.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I taught him a few things about how our software worked, and then he jumped around the the oldest world, you know, with his own career and uh you know spent time in in Malaysia and uh Germany and ultimately ended up in the US.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh they did he call you young Jason?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Was that uh no?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: He wasn't much older than me.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I was just chasing him.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, uh so he uh you know, they set up a uh you know, I had a position opening and uh they offered me the job.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: I I came across, they they uh they brought me across my with my wife.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: We had a look around, um, you know, offered me the job, and uh, you know, in a in about it was probably less than five months, you know, I had uh you know, visa, visa US visa to work here, and uh we were packing up our family and and uh you know my wife and I and three three kids.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um the oldest was like in fifth grade, then second grade, and the other one was not even two.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: And we uh we were on this grand adventure moving to USA.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: So uh what year was that that you you actually came?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: That was uh October 2006.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, just before Halloween.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um we spent Halloween and and the next couple of months in the residence in, um, which is kind of interesting.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: We got a family of three, you know, in a small room for that that um and uh then we we managed to our our stuff was on a ship, you know, they they put everything in a 26-foot shipping container.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so our whole life was you know packed into the basement then of our rental property for uh about six months, and then we uh we bought a house a little while later.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that sounds like quite the ordeal to just uh you know, I I never really thought about yeah, just the the shipping container.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know how long it takes to get a ship from Australia to Eastern US.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was pretty pretty much close to two months.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: So uh and uh you know, so we just we'd had a couple of a couple of suitcases, um, we had a few boxes, you know, packing boxes that they sort of express express shipped across, you know, so they know for basic things like you know the home PC um and and some paperwork and you know extra clothes or whatever, and and that's that's what we had uh in this residence in months for a couple of months.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it was it was quite an adventure.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it was it was a it was a fun adventure, though.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, for my wife, I mean, she was still the mum of three young boys.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for me, I was you know, still an Otis engineer at the time, um, you know, working with people that I guess I'd corresponded with over many, many years leading up.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: And by that stage, I'd been with the company for 20, been over 20 years, and some of those people I'd had back and forth interactions with for probably you know the best part of 15 plus.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it was fun to actually work face to face with people that that you only ever had communicated with by in those days.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was still fax machines, uh telexes, um, uh the very occasional phone call.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there was no video conferencing um, you know, for for a lot of that time, um, you know, and certainly nothing like Zoom calls or Teams meetings or anything like that.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, you know, a couple of us have met a few times at some worldwide engineering meetings around the globe, but uh, you know, there was still a bunch of people I'd never had the chance to actually, you know, face to face, even know what they look like, you know.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, yeah.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's it's funny you say that because you know, I think I take you know email and and like say technology for granted, but it wasn't that long ago, right?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was I I remember my first email was it was like 1996, or you know, it was it was well beyond, you know, it was beyond the high school and kind of starting college.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what is this?
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know how to use it.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so yeah, a lot of your career correspondence, yeah, was uh like the dark ages compared from to where we are now.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: We we used to send inter-office uh memos and it was on like a triplicate paper, you know, so you'd press really hard to make sure it went through the the three copies and you'd you'd send two away, you'd keep one, and then somebody would reply with their answer or sort of the you know, you get one of the copies back.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, didn't even know how how those work, but um that's amazing.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me, uh, you know, one of the things about the work you do as you know being an engineer is it seems like it's it's really you know, it's behind the scenes, it's it's uh not only is are elevators in general kind of mysterious for a lot of certainly for the riding public because they don't know about the ropes and the shivs and the you know but but you're one step removed from that, um, it seems, because you're you know kind of behind all that.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: How do you how do you judge the success of the work you do?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: And and um where does that show up for you?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it it's it's different things.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it's something something as simple as getting in an elevator and and seeing the you know the nameplate on the sill on the older ones or uh you know a placard on the on the car operating panel that has the company's name or recognizing part of a product and going, you know, I worked on that.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know that's that's that's exciting.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh sometimes in the case of that that that modernization uh product for 401, there was a spreadsheet I I'd filled out or created for a site survey, and that had my name on it with like, you know, any questions, contact Jason, right?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: And for a long time after I'd transferred that responsibility to you know the US operation to to take care of that, I still got phone calls from random people all around the you know, certainly North America, with hey, I got this problem with this, and your name's on here.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I told the guys, take my names off this.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: And and I was still getting those for probably you know the best part of 10 years or more afterwards.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, and definitely, you know, when you have a successful product, um, sometimes hearing from your competitors is interesting.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I'm no longer with with Otis, as I mentioned to you.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, I worked for a GL, which is part of uh Vantage.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: And uh one of our sales guys were chatting, and I said, I worked on this product, and he said, you know, he he worked at TKE at the time.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: He said, we could not sell a modernization against that, it was just too good.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and that's that's obviously the highest compliment you can get when you're somebody who's a competitor, you know, recognizes that it was tough to sell against.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, that's satisfying.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes on on um you know product development, when you're on a job site and it's the first time that you're actually handing over the equipment to a customer, and you see a difference in the way the building behaves or the the traffic flows, and and you're just like, we did it, you know, and and the consultants and the building management are looking at each other and going, wow, you know, because they maybe didn't have the confidence that you you had going into it.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, you know, those things are are definitely very, very satisfying.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I I think that's that's that's part of the the thrill of of being an elevator engineer and and designing great products that that people use day in, day out without ever knowing who you are.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's that's great.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and it sounds like some of that uh some of the the praise, it sounds like it was, you know, it was you know, 20, 30 years later that you're actually hearing, wow, you know, that that was impossible to sell again.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, just that's that's gotta be like you say, very rewarding to to hear that hey, you did a good thing.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: Even even all these years later, we remember how good that was.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, absolutely, you know, and and that's you know, that's the same since uh, you know, joining joining Vantage and GL, you know, uh done some some great work there too.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, we have a uh uh destination dispatch um job down in Puerto Rico.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: We got up and um running uh what 16, 17 months ago now, you know, when that's running, it's a A-class building down there in the business district, and uh, you know, there's some some really high high class tenants.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: And uh when you you see them using the using the system and you know giving you a happy smile and two thumbs up as they see you in the in the in the lobby as you're sort of you know keeping an eye on it.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's something, there's something just just when you you bring that smile to somebody's face, and I mean elevators aren't normally something people smile about much, right?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, generally it's uh it's I hope I don't get trapped in this done.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: Or you know, you normally hear the bad side of things, but to see the good part of it, and there's obviously a lot of good.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we move a lot of people around the world, sure, you know, around the US and Canada every day on our products.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, that's something we that every elevator engineer, I mean, from the people who who design it to the people in the factories who build it to the the customers that we sell to who install it and service it, they should be proud.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's a it's a pretty unique uh industry in that regard.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: So let's um let's I guess end with a couple of questions.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: We're kind of getting uh short on our time here, but what would you say is the single most important thing you've learned throughout your career in the uh elevator industry?
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think one thing is obviously uh you know, there always could be a better way for doing something.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you need to think outside the box to realize what that is.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh sometimes you need to do that and go out on a bit of a limb yourself, like you know, pitch the idea and uh and have faith that it's gonna work out and then work hard to make sure it does.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um you've got to do your homework, you know, because you know there's a lot of a lot of things can go wrong if you don't consider all of the all of the scenarios and all the options, but uh when you get it right, it smiles around.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: What what advice would you give to someone who's either interested or maybe just starting a career?
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I would say that you know, a lot a lot of people in engineering and and I mean I mean software these days, people think of the the big names, you know, they think of the Facebooks, you know, Amazon's, Apple, Netflix, Google's, and stuff like that, right?
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: And they think those are very glamorous careers, but they've also got incredible pressure, incredible burnout.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think the elevator industry is a very rotten career path.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, lots of variation in the in the sort of projects and product you work on.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you touch on a lot of different aspects, you know, from from the control electronics to understanding the you know A17 elevator code and how that applies to your designs, to you know, the people, the people factors, you know, just how usable your product is.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and I think it's also a very uh stable career path.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, I've I've only had two two employers in the elevator industry in 38 years.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's that's a pretty good, a pretty good run.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and um, you know, I mean, through good times and bad times when the economy may have its ups and downs, I mean, people still need elevators for their ups and downs, you know, to get them out of their apartments, to get them in out of their offices and hotels and all over the places.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's got a degree of uh you know recession proofness in it that a lot of other industries don't have.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and I think that you know working with great people across the spectrum of you know, everyone from sales to mechanics and everyone in between.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, those people are some of the, you know, I mean, still, you know, people I I started to work with, I still keep in contact with all these years later.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in fact, you know, a couple of years I was back in Australia, I caught up with that mechanic I told you about that I spent four months with, you know, and we're still we still keep in contact all these years later.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, he's retired now, but uh we still share elevator stories and I laugh about the good times and smile about the good times we had.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: So awesome, awesome.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Jason.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate you being with me today.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being willing to do the interview, and uh, it's been a pleasure getting to know you a little better.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a pleasure to uh to chat with you too, Matt.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: I hope uh our paths cross uh physically.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: We can uh shake hands and and smile and share a few more stories together.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds great.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the All Red Group, a leader in elevator industry recruiting.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: You can check us out online at elevatorcareers.net.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Please subscribe and until next time, stay safe.