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Free Speech Versus Common Decency | Jerm Warfare · UK Column Radio

• 0:30
  Speaker 1: My name is Jim. This is Jim Wolf The Battle
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: of Ideas. Yeah, you were just telling me. Now, so
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: I'm going to expose you. You just said you're not
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: wearing any pants. I can't believe you said that. It's okay,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: I'm not wearing any pens either.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Good, that'll be our kickoff. You know, I was thinking
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: about it. I mean, you hear about this kind of
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: thing all the time, like news anchors not wearing any
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: clothes put their waist and I was thinking about, like,
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: you know, because they wear the suspenders and everything. So
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: I was like getting all that ready, and I'm like, going,
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: I don't I don't even need this.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: That's a cool thing about doing a podcast. Yeah, although
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: I mean this there is a video, yeah, but it's
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: it's from the it's from the waist up.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. And you know, we could be
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: wearing those We could even be wearing those masks that
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: everybody says everyone wears, you know that that is fate,
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: like a lizard face or something. You know, maybe maybe
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: next time we could do that.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Although I'm higher up in the picture than you are,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: I've got.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: More of my you know, I was trying to adjust
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: for that, but I'd have to like mess around with
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: the chair and I don't want to take the time,
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: so I have to sit up straight. And then my
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: head's like remember when you were doing the TNT thing?
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: Those people most people aren't like so Anal, It's like
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: if I move the slightest bad, oh I move back.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Your head's none, right. I remember that when I was
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: a t n T live live radio there was live radio,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: but they wanted you to sit up straight.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Well it started out just audio, right and then and
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: then it went to video. And when I went to video,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: it was like all this like scrutiny about things.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: You know. They wanted me to look like Tucker Corson.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: You know that what I've still got the email? What email?
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: What did you just say about Tucker? They wanted me
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: to look more like him. That's funny. And that they
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: had that had the whole lout, you know. That's that's
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: that with like little x's and walks and things and
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: saying that really yes.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Really, and that was that when he was on was
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: that when he was on Fox? Yeah, they even told
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: me to shave, didn't like my stubble.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Of course I didn't shave because my wife likes my stubble,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: and I'm not going to listen to them.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: How do you actually do that? I've always wondered about that.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: How do you do?
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: How do you have partial hair sticking out of your face?
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: How do you keep it that way? Do you do
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: you have to do some kind of weird shaving thing
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: to just to just cut it part of the way
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: down instead of a razor, because you use a razor.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: It's all gone. We need a jingle for this for
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: this portion of the podcast. We're going into the manosphere.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, well it's it's it's incredibly stupid. I don't
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: know that, but I've always think it's.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: A good stupid.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: I think I've always wondered how men keep a stubble,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: because that's like not shaving for a couple of days,
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: and it's like then you shave and then it's all
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: it's not a stubble anymore.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: I'm actually going to ask you a question about this
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: in the moment, but let me just answer your question.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: You just you just use an electric razer with the
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: blade that I thought, with a blade that's suits slightly
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: further away from your face. That's all you go.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: But what did you do before they had those to
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: get that, to get that Fred Flintstone. Look, well, look, my.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Wife doesn't want me to. My wife refuses to have
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: me lean shaven because she says, if I if I
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: am keen shaven, then I look younger than her, or
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: you look like Tucker Carlson, and we don't want that.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: We don't want that.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: One of my heroes. Yeah, he's really smart. He's a
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: lot smarter than you'd think, Like, like he talks to
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: some of these people that you know he knows stuff about,
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: but like history and stuff. I mean, he's he's a
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: pretty smart guy. And I think he puts together ideas
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: really well. A lot that he says he doesn't filter
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: what comes out of his mouth.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Well, so that's why I like when he's going nut.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: Well true, I mean that's one of the cool things
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: about him. But you know, if you're looking for accurate news,
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: you know it's a bit hyperbolic at times, not all
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: the time, just something.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. I mean, he's not doing anymore. He's doing.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: He's doing opinion and talk that's right exactly exactly and
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: always has really, I mean, you know that's what he
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: but that's what I like I like storytelling. We've spoken
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: about this in the past. I much prefer storytelling and
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: personalized shall we say, journal journalism, but from a journaling perspective,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: if that makes more sense.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: Well, that used to be very acceptable in the culture,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: and and you know it's it isn't anymore because because
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: people are This is going to sound terrible. I've gotten
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: really bad about things like this, saying things like because
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: people are stupid now.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: But it's like, you know, the the I've always said.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: I think I wrote an article about this a while back,
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: this idea that we are really as the listener and
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: the and the one that receives information, we're the ones
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: that are responsible to determine if what we're listening to.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Is valid or not.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Yes, And you know, they they don't want it that way.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, they wanted that the conveyor of information has
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: to vet it. And I think there's certain situations where
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: obviously that's expected, you know, to some degree, obviously, but ultimately,
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: you know, if you have free speech, which suppose we do,
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: like in America at least, then you know, free speech
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: means that you're going to get all kinds of crap
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: coming at you.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: I'm not a free speech absolutist, though, Todd I used
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: to be, and no, I used to be. But if
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: you actually think about what it means, it's a complicated term.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Because Elon Musk has said he's a free speech absolutist.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: Now that's obviously bunk because that Elon Musk, because X
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: certainly no. But it was when you said that I
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: started thinking about what it actually means. So let me
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: give an example. Because people go free speech, free speech,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: free speech. Okay, fine, but if you come into my home, Todd,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: and you talk smack about my wife, I'm going to
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: show you the door because yeah, but that's not free speech.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: That's you're speaking.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: But that's private. Okay, So the yes week, So yes,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: it gets interesting. So when we talk about free speech,
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: what are we talking about. Well, I don't know.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: I'm not a constitutionalist, but I've just always assumed it's
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: primarily what you speak in public.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, So private doesn't mean so prov.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: Well, private is like you know, yeah, you can knock
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: somebody's head off if they're saying things you don't like.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's a one on one kind of
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: kind of exchange. And the free the freedom of the
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: speech or the content of the speech is really determined
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: by the listener in a situation like that, because you
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: have control over it, you can shut it up, you
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: can kick the guy out of your house, you can
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: beating up.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: There's all kinds of things you can do.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: But I think I think I would say I'm a
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: bit of an absolutist, but I'm also a believer in
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: bottom up character. I think that exactly exactly, and I
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: think we've lost that in the culture. Let me without that, then,
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: you know, what, what do you control?
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: Then?
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: I mean we free at all. If we have no character,
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: if we have no decency, then we're free to do
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: whatever we want to do, you know, to hurt people,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: to rape children's.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: That's where I'm going with this. So are you Are
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: you going to run up to a little granny you
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: sitting on a bench in the park and start swinging
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: at it because you can you know, it's free speech. Baby,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: You're just being a dick and it's not a nice
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: thing to do. There's no sense of decency, there, no
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: exactly which is what you're talking about. So yeah, so
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: there is there is a sense of self restraint.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, And and whether it would even occur to you
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: to do such a thing, because if you're decent, you
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: won't where you get into sticky stuff with with all
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: of this, everything not just free speech, with everything is
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: legislation and laws. Well, yes, I agree, yeah, I mean
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: it's like, do we really need to have a law
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: that says you have.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: To be decent?
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: And yeah, if if it gets out of hand that
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: people are are heathens. But but that's a top down
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: solution for something that should be a bottom up solution.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: It should be, and and bottom up solutions are much
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: more and more difficult because they take a long time.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: Takes generations to build character in a culture. Individually in
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: a home, it takes one generation. You raise your kids
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: and you raise them decently, you raise them with character
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: and blah blah blah. So you're doing a bottom up solution,
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: but as far as the communities concerned, everybody's got to
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: do that for it to have any impact.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: And I so like another example, And I think I
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: know what you're going to respond with. You're going to
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: say that it's private, But okay, I'll give you another example.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: You're want an airplane. Now, I don't think it's a
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: particularly good idea. To make very loud jokes about there
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: being a bomb on the plane or somebody being a terrorist.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: You've got the ability to speak freely, but yeah, I think.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: They're in present danger though that's actually in the law.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: Even though it's a joke, I think it's a pretty
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: bad no. No, you can't do that, You can't do that,
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: And there's all kinds of I just recently read a
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: book and I can't remember the title of it, of course,
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: but it was about free speech and it was the
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: history of it, and it was quite interesting because you
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: just take for granted that one the United States was
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: established and the Constitution was established, that it was it
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: was very clear what free speech meant, and it wasn't
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: and you know, there were a lot of restrictions on
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: it on what that meant. What does free speech mean?
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Does it mean you can say anything you want? And
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: I think the founding fathers or whoever it is that
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: you know, actually came up with these ideas did not
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: believe it to be that way. They did believe there
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: were kind of natural restrictions like well, yeah, you're not
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: going to do that, You're not going to say that,
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: you know. And again, I think this is all mostly
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: bottom up stuff. I mean, any decent person that has
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: a decent character is not going to talk about a
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: bomb on a plane, yea, And so a lot of that,
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: you know, over time has changed. I mean, people used
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: to be more decent and they you know, you can
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: argue that through the roof. I understand that. I mean,
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: I'm not making a state that people back in time
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: were more decent, but I think in general there was
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: a certain kind of decency that that people had. And
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: what's the definition of decency?
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, no, I think I think you're wrong. I
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: think you're wrong. I think people I think are less decent.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you why. Well that's what I was saying.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: But Jordan, sorry, then I agree with your pardon. Jordan
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Peterson forty warts I think was correct when he said
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: that the internet has created more sociopaths.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, probably, But how does How does it because people
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: create that people?
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Because people don't speak like that in real life in
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: the comments in the comments section, you know, they don't.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Nobody will actually say eighty percent of those things to
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: you in person.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: Well, unfortunately, Bonham up work is is just as based
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: on fear of consequence as top down as you know,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: top down says there's a law that says you can't
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: do X y Z or x y Z. Since I'm not,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: do you guys say Z.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: There or Z? We we say ZI? I think it's
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: because you're a British You got a British background. Yeah, anyway, off,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: what do you say? Do you say? Also?
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: Well, I do because I live in Canada, so I
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: just have gotten used to hearing it. So when I said,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: way that Z comes from it's weird. Yeah, that is weird.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: There there is a reason for it. To look it up.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: Ask ai, it will know it knows all kinds of
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: things like that. But anyway, what I was saying is
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: that I don't even know what I was saying, but
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: talking about the decency in the bottom up consequences, It's
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: like back in the day where we're saying people were
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: more decent, the consequence for being indecent was going to hell.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: They people actually believed that if they win against God's will,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: they would be punished for it. And I don't think
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: that's the only reason why people were decent. I mean
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: I think that people also well, a lot of it
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: I think did have to do with religion. And did
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: have to do with belief and not necessarily fear of consequences.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: I think that was part of it. I think that
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: was part of it for the people that were marginalized
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: or the people that were really put in a position
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: were being evil and going against God was something that
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: was required of them in order to survive.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: But you know, it's like.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: The Internet. Yeah, there's no filter, there's no consequence. And
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: I think that's what we're moving into right now, is
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: the consequence of bad speech, like a clear and present
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: danger form of speech, or even hate speech or whatever
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: however you want to define it.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Is the law.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: And it's like, okay, if it's against the law to
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: say something asked about Jews or or or whatever whatever.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: There's the lesbians, lesbians or whatever. If if there is
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: a law that says you can't do that, people might
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: be less likely to do it. Therefore everybody goes, Okay,
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: good thing, we have the law. Because the law. Then
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: then then it gets into this stin of like what
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: is the law. What's the purpose behind the law. Is
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: it to protect people or is it to create control
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: from from the higher ups, from the agenda and whatever.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: And of course I believe that with no question. I
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: think every law, or generally, every policy that's put out
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: there is put out there with with this kind of
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: disguise that it's for.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Our better good and it's for us.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: And whatever our safety whatever. I mean, you know, we've
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: been through this a million times. But in reality, it's
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: not that at all. It's it's to create more control.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: It's too it's to do all the things we know
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: about that the agenda is attempting to do. So that's
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: the reason why I'm kind of an absolutist with free speech.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: It's like, I don't think you can have a little
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: bit of it. I think you can have clear laws
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: around it. You know, inciting violence, get up there, let's
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: kill all these people. Come on, get out there and
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: kill them. You know, it's yeah, okay, that's that's okay.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: It's to arrest somebody that's doing that. But also you know,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: the clear and present danger type thing, talking about a
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: bomb on a plane.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: But man, it's it's touchy.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: It's like, what what is inciting you know, everybody says
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Trump incited rioting at the Capitol.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: I don't think inciting violence is necessarily violation of free speech,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: So okay, it might not be. I agree, it might
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: not be. Hang on, we'll come back to that in
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: a second. I took up your challenge. I looked up
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: the z Z thing and oh, okay, great, this is important.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: I actually didn't know this, so I think, yeah, so
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: it's listening right now. Is going to enjoy this if
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: they don't know either, but listen to this. Americans say
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Z instead of Z for one main reason. Noah Webster.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: In the late seventeen hundreds and early eighteen hundreds, Webster,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: an American lexicographer, set out to create a distinctly American
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: version of English. He believed the newly independent US needed
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: its own national language, separate from British English, to forge
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: a distinct cultural identity. So he's eighteen twenty eight American
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Dictionary of the English Language was the centerpiece of this effort,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: and he made many deliberate changes to American spelling and pronunciation,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: including color where he took out the letter U center center,
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: and he switched the R and e around. Music spelled
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: with a K at the end, I didn't know that,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: which became yeah, music with the sea makes more sense
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: with just a sea, by the way, And then oh,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: and this is the one that I've often wonted. Defense
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: with the C became defense with an S. So as
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: part of this project, he promoted Z of Z for
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: the letter Z. The Z pronunciation wasn't entirely Webster's invention.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: It existed in some English dialects before him, but he
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: was the one who standardized it as the American way
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: through his dictionaries and spelling books, which became enormously influential
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: in American society.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: There you go, whoa, Now that's I mean, that's very interesting.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: But it's also very interesting about the other the other
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: things that use and because that doesn't affect the pronunciation
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: at all, just a spelling. And you know, when I
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: write my articles in my books, for some reason, I'm
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: sticking with the Canadian or Queen's English as they used
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: to call it.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: And I don't know, it makes no sense.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, it makes no sense, but I would I
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: will change all the spellings to have the US in
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: color in defense with the C and the S and
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: what I can't remember which ones, right, I mean, I
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: don't change center though that a night in shining armor.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: But there's a hidden K in there some way. Why, well,
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: all those things are crazy. Yeah, that's in both englishes.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I wanted.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: To come back to your Yeah, it is interesting. I
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: wanted to come back to your free speech thing. And
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: I also did say I wanted to come back to
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: that manisphere comment. Actually, let me just do that now
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: before get We're talking about stubble and whatnot, and it
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: all sounds very superficial, et cetera, et cetera, but there
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: is actually a degree of depth. This is why where,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: this is why you shave your beard, this is why
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: you brush your teeth, why you wear a shirt, because
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: at at the human primal level, we still want to
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: attract a partner. Well, of course that's very primal, No,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: it is. It is primal because because it's it's a
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: heart of our existence. But yet if we talk about
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: it it's superficial or shallow, it's weird. Well, I write
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: about that a lot.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: You should read my man Boy book that I just
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: finished that I'm working on getting an index creator.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think it goes obviously to the extreme
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: where it does become shallow. And if your whole life
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: is centered around, you know, spending all day in the bathroom,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: then there's a problem. But I think there's no harm
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: in basic esthetics.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: No, of course not. I mean it's healthy. And you know,
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: I'm an archetypal psychologist, so I'm very focused on archetypal
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: patterns and energies that kind of push people in different directions.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: And that's one of them. I mean, being the man.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: You know, the stubble indicates that you worked all night,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: that you didn't have time to shave, so you're a
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: hard worker. So that's the message that a woman gets
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: from seeing you with the double.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: It's also more testosterone, which women like. By the way, well,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: there was a there was a study to look at
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: it that way.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: There was a time where women did like that. I
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: mean they still do well, they do, but the culture
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: tells them not to correct.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: So there was a studies we get it. I can't
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: remember the details anymore, but there was a very big study.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: I think it was done in Australia where they over
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: I think six months or three months, I don't even
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: know what the time period was. But they had thousands
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: of girls, females, women, I can't say girls, right ah,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: and they they tested various what's the word I'm looking for,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: tested them with various imagery of men from from soldiers
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: to skateboarders to surfers to corporate different facial facial configurations,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: you know, there's all these configurations were changing the whole time.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: And what they found is that men who were seen
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: as let's say, militant soldierly h were by far the
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: most attractive. And I think that goes down there's a
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: psychology there, because there's a there's a there's a sense
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: of security and safety and m and order uh and
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: and they would switch, they would switch a soldier into
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: a surface outfit and and so on and so forth. And
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: it's very interesting. And they also found that that men
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: were stubble were the they were seen with the highest
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: level of attraction. And I think because there's a there's
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: a degree of testosterone that because women cannot grow stubble,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: and and beards also are considered masculine.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it used to be every man had a beard,
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: every adult man. I mean even in Western culture. I
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: wouldn't say every man, of course you and I'm not
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: going to make an absolute, but but that was that
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: was much more common than it is now. And of
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: course in Islam and Middle Eastern countries men have beards.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I cannot grow a beard because if I grew a beard,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: I'll be arrested if I landed in Heathrow. Actually I wouldn't, No,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: actually I wouldn't. I'd be welcome now because of the
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: way the UK's swam, but I would look like I
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: would look like an Arab. Put it that way.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Do you you grow a really big thick beard if
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: you grew on.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I've got like an olive skin, so you know.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Right, right, so that you do, you do look rather
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Arab like, Yeah, there you go, you got it.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: You could be made in New York when I when
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: I when I land in Dubai, they say welcome, welcome,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: that's my wife. When my wife lands there, they search you,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: So yeah, well that'll be a great advantage for you
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: once the world shifts over two majority Islam would Okay.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: So now I want to go back to your you're
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: coming to about free speech isn't to this, okay. So
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: when I said I'm not a free speech absolutist, I
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: mean that in the broadest sense. But if we split
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: it between private and public, okay, So now now becomes
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: more interesting. So in private, I'm not a free speech absolutist.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: I don't want you speaking your mind in front of
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: my kids. For example, I don't want pornography. Biography is
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: free speech. It's a really weird one.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: But that's how they Yeah, that's a whole other topic.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, I would like to know the history of that.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: I don't want people swearing in front of my kids.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Put their way, No, absolutely, okay, right, So but listen
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: to this. The most basic version of free speech goes
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: something like this. Every person has a natural right to
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: speak their mind, and that right should not depend on
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: whether what they say is popular, polite, correct, or approved
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: by whoever happens to be in charge. Okay, So that's
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: what it comes down to when we talk about free speech.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: It's actually about the authority and who is that authority?
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, a good point. I do believe that definition
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: is based on the assumption that you're speaking to a broad.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Public. Like well, it goes on. In most democracy's free
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: speech is enshrined as legal protection against government censorships. So
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: there we go. So in other words, when we talk
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: about free speech, we're talking about it in relation to
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: the government. Yes, yes, you.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: Know, I got called on that right at the very
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: beginning of the whole COVID thing. And I can't remember
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: the details of it, but it was something like that.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: It was that the person that called me on it
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: was saying free speech only applies to or the enforcement
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: of it or whatever only applies to the government. It's like,
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: the government cannot stop you from speaking, but somebody else can.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: We can like attack you and beat you up or whatever,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: and you can't if you get beat up because you're
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: standing on a soapbox talking about something that the crowd
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: hates you for and beat you up for. I don't think.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure about this. I don't think you can
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: go to the police and say, hey, that was free speech.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: They had no right to beat me up. They shouldn't
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: beat the person up. That would be against the law. Okay,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: So you could get them in trouble for that, but
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: you couldn't get them in trouble for denying you speaking,
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: because it's not question Todd.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if that's true,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: but that's what I think. Well, I mean, yeah, it
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: concludes the says of free speech is usually about the
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: relationship between the individual and the state. So there you go.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: So that okay, but let me ask you a question.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Why should we have free speech in public spaces? And
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: I'm asking that very genuinely. I'm not saying I agree
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: with censorship. But think about this for a second. In China,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: you can't readly speak terribly free d in public spaces,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: like for example, you can't be a church pastor and
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: stand on a corner and preach from the Bible. Don't
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: like that. Or you can't have a protest movement. Now
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: that's more interesting because a protest movement, which is free
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: speech in the public space, can lead to a degradation
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: of the sovereignty of that region. Yeah, so is that
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: a good thing? Do you want? Do you want constant riots?
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Because then you end up with a broken society like
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: we have.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: If there's a reason why you're rioting, because your freedoms
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: or your inalienable rights as a human person are being violated,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: then if that's what it takes, and that's all it is, sure, okay.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: So I mean if you don't if you don't want
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: a free society, Okay, if you like the idea of
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: the government controlling everything at their whim, not yours, for
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: their purposes, controlling everything and whatever, then you don't want
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: a free society. And if that works well for you,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: like in China, let's say, then that's your choice as
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: a as a group of people, if you're a democracy.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, But now I don't know if you know about
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: and I don't know. I don't know where it is.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: I think it's it's somewhere in the US, possibly in Washington,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: where the Church of Satan decided to put up a
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: statue of their own Luciferian God. And they did it
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: as trolling. Obviously, they did it to show that this
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: is about free speech. And they put it I think,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: right next to a church or something. I don't I
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: don't know the full story. We can look it up.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: But they did it as a as a as a
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: basically as a tough of gambit. Now that's free speech,
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: but it ruins, it ruins society in a way that
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: that I mean people they don't want it, they don't
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: want it, but they got all it's our it's our
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: free speech. So now what happens is that you have
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: a conflict, and and and and and the and the
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: conflict is driven by a top two of arrogance, the
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: top of hubris, where I'm entitled, so I'm going to
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: do this. I'm going to say this or exprace this
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: in public. But then I can respond by saying, okay, fine,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: but then I'm going to buy up that space and
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: make it private. And then you can't do that. Yeah,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: you could do that. I mean.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: The point that you're getting at, I think is when
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: you run into you run into this problem where if
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: you don't have a bottom up stability lifestyle, basic values
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: that have been established, and this is what's going on
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: around the world everybody's getting all wigged out about. If
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: you don't have that established, then the free speecher is
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: going to the minority that comes out and says, hey,
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: I want to do this and does it. That's just
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: part of what you have to deal with if you're
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: a believer in a free society, and it would be
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: animal if everybody was kind of basically on the same
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: page of what they believe decency is, what they believe
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: good community is or whatever, because those are natural things.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: But people aren't decent, No they're not, excuse me, but
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: but if so, if people onto decent, what now are
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: we going to just let them run amook?
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Or we change our culture to a non free society
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: and and live more like China does or North Korea
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: or the way the Soviet Union was or whatever. And
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: we know that doesn't go well or or hasn't. Maybe
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: China's got it down now. I'm not saying. I'm not
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: saying I like that. I don't.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: That's that's up. That's up to the individual. I mean,
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: you get in order to get this. Yeah, but have
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: a look what's going on in Western culture. You've got
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: you've got gay pride readies in public spaces with the
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: men are running around naked.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, again me being the paranoid guy I am. I
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: think that's all agenda driven. I think the power the
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: power system in a culture that wants the culture to
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: be not free, okay, that wants to create more and
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: more laws and have more and more restrictions, are doing
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: that for their own purposes. It's their agenda. And I
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: didn't used to think this, but I definitely.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Believe it now.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: And therefore any kind of push you have toward controlling
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: things is all part like let's stop those naked men
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: running around in the street and these gay parades or whatever,
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: which wasn't something that was going on not that long ago.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: I think they're all essentially agenda driven. I'm not saying
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: somebody in the higher up sits in.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: There and goes, let's do a gay pride parade.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: It's just I think it's part of this whole process
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: of putting more and more restraints and conditions. Just like
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: what you're saying. I mean, you're a pretty free thinking guy.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: You know, you wouldn't be able to do what you
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: do here in a non free speech society.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't be able to do what I do in China.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Put it that way. Well, yeah, yeah, I mean you wouldn't, Okay.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Is that okay? Well, you know not whatever, No, no,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: not for me, that's not you know, so that's a
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: deal breaker for me. But my point still, Todd, is
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: if you just look around you, whatever's going on is
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: not working. And I'm beginning to think more and more Tommy,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: if you agree that humans do not thrive with maximum freedom,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: I think they do if they're decent. Okay, but that's
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: a condition that doesn't seem to It is a condition,
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: but the condition seem real. Yeah, but decency you're born
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: with it. I mean, do you think your child is decent?
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: Actually think no, because now I mean decent.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: I'm not talking about good or following rules or anything
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: I mean decent. I don't know if decency applies to
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: to Toddler's I mean they well, it probably doesn't.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: That's probably not a good example. But I don't think
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: they need to be taught to be decent. I think
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: they need to be taught to be indecent. And you know,
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: this is a this is a deep existential question. I mean,
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: it's like, you know, my belief Okay, it certainly didn't
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: used to feel this way, But I think the reason
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: why things are out of control the way you describe
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: is because spirituality, religion, God, whatever, has been essentially removed
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: from the culture. And you know, people would argue with
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: me about that big time, and I get it. I
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: don't think an organized religion is the end all, but
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: I think the idea of a greater power, the idea
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: of following a decent path, that almost all religions that
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: I know of have it their core core values of
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: love essentially is kind of the core value of certainly
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: of Christianity, and I think that that work when you
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: focus on a non material value that's non material, that
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: isn't based on the acquisition of material things like money
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: and cars and houses and stuff. Then you start to
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: develop a sense outside of yourself, which is where the
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: God idea comes from. It doesn't have to be an
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: organized religion. I think organized religions are good because they
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: kind of just have it all laid out for you,
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: is like you know, but it doesn't have to be
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: that at all. In fact, in some cases it shouldn't
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: be that. But I think that's where the decency has
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: been stripped from us. I think that we're too too narcissistic.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: We're too focused on instant gratification, material acquisition, a sense
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: of material the material world as being the only reality
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: that has meaning, and that is so far from the truth.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, And most people that have ventured away from
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: that to any amount a degree are more decent people.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, like, would you ever say the things that
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: you're saying people shouldn't be free to say? Would you
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: ever say them? I don't think so, No, because you
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: have a level of decent that do you believe in God?
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Or you a religious guy or you a Christian? Yeah, okay,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: there you go. I mean I'm not saying all Christians
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: are all people that believe in God are saintly and
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: perfect by any means.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: No, but actually, you know what, You're right. This is
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: an existential kind of conversation. I don't know how to
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: put this into words. I'm going to let me give
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: this a go. When you believe in something, a deity
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: or a force, or something that's higher than you, it
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: places you into a submissive position in your existence that
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: that forces a kind of humility. If you believe in
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: absolutely nothing and you are the apex of existence, Yeah,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: there's a degree of narcissism and hubris and self entitlement
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: and all kinds of other things that come with that.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: Does it? Does that make sense? Yeah, you're nailing it.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: I mean that's that. I think that's a result of
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: this coming out of yourself and looking at the world
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: from that different perspective, that it isn't all about satisfying yourself.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: And and that's that's what most people that we're talking
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: about are doing. Their Their whole purpose is to satisfy themselves. Yes,
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: whether the whether that be, I'm always right, I can't
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: be wrong. You're an asshole. I'm going to go out
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: there and and say anything I want to say, just
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: because I can say it.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: That's all.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: That's all interstuff, it's nothing outside of self.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: And yeah, well, many in our alternative circles will probably
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: be pushed back and go, well, no, how can you
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: say sorry? I'm little bit sick at the moment, I
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: got a bit of a cold in a coffess why
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: I keep Oh, that's no excuse turning up my mic.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: Some in our space will go But if you're talking
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: about being submissive or in a secondary role, you know
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: you're being controlled, you know. And this is where I
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: disagree with David Ike, because he kind of wants us
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: to be at the top of the permit of power.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: Although I think he argues that we're in a simulations,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure how how older that works together.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: That's a good point, but the sense of humility I
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: think is very important in order to be a good
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: person or a decent person.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, you're the thing you're bringing up is
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: is so interesting because this is kind of the atheistic argument.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: I remember I had a client once that I was
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: who was probably the most sociopathic client I've ever had,
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: who like said, I asked him, do you believe in God,
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: and he said, absolutely not. And if I did, the
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: first thing I would do is try to figure out
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: a way to killing And I thought that was kind
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: of of an interesting way to look at it. But
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: that's just what you're saying here. It's like, nobody has
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: power over me, you know, not even a God doesn't
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: have power over me.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: But it's not true though, because I mean, my own
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: wife has power over me, and I've granted her that
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: power by exactly. I mean, that's the example. Yeah, being
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: in the marriage to it, I am submitting part of me.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: That's because you're not fearful of that power. And I think,
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: I mean you're talking about your wife, You're talking about
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: a relationship. And I think in relationships, this is one
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: of the most important things that that has gone missing.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: And I wrote a book on this too, about archetypal
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: coupling and how how we do relate to one another
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: in a loving romantic relationship by allowing each partner to
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: have a certain power over us and they both have it.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: It isn't like she has the only power over you. You
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: have power over her as well. It's different and it
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: can be defined differently, but I think submitting to what
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: we're talking about, Submission isn't even a good word for it,
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: because you know, we don't really submit to God's power
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: because we do anything we want and then we get
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: in trouble for it, but we still do it. And
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: we think that if God had power over us, we
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: wouldn't be able to do anything that was against God's will.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: Whatever you want to call it. I mean, it's like
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: saying electricity has power over us. Yeah, it does. We
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: stick our finger in a wall socket. That's two twenty,
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: but we know it.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Huh.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: But we relappen if we do that, if we allow
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: the power to hurt us and destroy us, if we
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: learn how to work with it, you know, we learn
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: how to use it to our advantage and not break
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: its roles.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: I can see a. Yeah, we can work with favor
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: and not let it, not let it control us. We
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: can work with it. It's a tool. Well, that's absolutely true.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, this whole AI thing, you know, the hatred
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: I believe the hatred for AI is is agenda driven.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: It's the same because as the dot com bubble, to
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: some degree, I think.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: Well it could be that too. It could hit its
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: peak and then just kind of dissipate out. Well, I mean,
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: certainly with lllm's I think though he did the LLMS,
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: I just thought of that. I was just thinking that
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: the l l MS definitely, because who gives a shit?
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: I mean it's like, I mean, we're arguing the same
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: argument that we would get mad at our accountant because
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: he uses a calculator instead of figuring everything out in
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: his brain or or argue with. And this has been
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: going on since I was in music in nineteen eighty,
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: arguing about synthesized music to say, well, those aren't humans
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: playing those violins on that recording. Fuck if I'm going
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: to listen to that. Nobody gave a crap about that stuff.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: I mean it was to the point where it was like,
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: and that's that's the same thing.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: Huh, all right, you got it.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. Was I not allowed to say that?
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: No, of course you can. You can say whatever you want.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: Are you going to do that? I'm kidding, I'm not
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: going to say that we have free It's.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: Free speech, buddy, I mean, it's free speech. I can
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: say whatever I want. Just don't let your kid watch this.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: Absolutely no, I love it. I mean it's all about
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: it's about self control, you know, again going back to
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: the free speech thing, you know, with decency and whatever.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, I would never come into your house with
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: your kids around. Oh that's what I'm talking the way
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: I usually talk. I mean, it's like I have respect
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: for you and for them, and but.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: That's what I want to ask you. Okay, So you've
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: bought up the idea of decency as a pre record
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: it to free speech. So in other words, if you,
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: if you're decent, you're not going to want to run
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: up to that grannie sitting in the talk and start
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: suing it too. Right, So decency comes from wag culture,
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: doesn't it. It's a it's a it's a cultural upbringing,
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: isn't it.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: I think I think learning learning the cultural morese is cultural.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know if decency is. And it's a really
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: good question. I believe, and I could be totally wrong
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: with this. I believe we're born decent. This is why
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: I was asking about your kid. Yeah, sure we can
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: do like your kid can pull the wings off of
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: flies and pull on the cat's ears or whatever, and
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: that's not very decent behavior. But this is just because
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: they don't know any better. They haven't learned yet the
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: consequences of doing things like that. So it's a it's
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: a good comment to make. When I say you're born decent,
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: I think the foundation of decency you're born with. And
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: you know the Egyptians, the ancient Egyptians called this mod
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: which is kind of like as above so below. It's
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: this idea that the divine essence is something that innately
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: is within you, and you have to be taught to
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: go against it. You have to learn it in a
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: material world where there's no focus on external from yourself,
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: where it's all about self satisfaction and gratification, you learn
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: to be indecent. And if you were left on your
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: own and were raised in a culture like you're saying
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: that has for generations kind of operated on this level
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: of decency, you won't learn to be indecent. Now, I
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: don't think there any cultures like that that exist on
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: the earth anymore.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: There used to be.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: There may be some indigenous ancient cultures and like you know,
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: New Guinea or something that still do. Along with all
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: the other crap that you have to deal with with
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: protecting your tribe and and all of that gets all
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: shoveled in there as well. But you know, I think
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: we used to have decent cultures on Earth. In fact,
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: I think most of them were in their own way.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: When you go back, you know, a thousand years or so,
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: you know, there's aberrations, there's strange things, slavery, weird stuff
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: like that that come in, you know, for external tribes
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: that come in, and you know, blah blah blah. So
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: that's a whole other topic, but I won't go into
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: because I don't know anything about it. But I don't know.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: That's that's the point that I making. I think that again,
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: going back to what takes decency away. Yes, it's cultural,
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: but the culture part of it, a lot of it
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: is agenda driven. Okay, our cultures now, And I think
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: when you had this is one of the things I
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: was so impressed with. When you have Mark McDonald on
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: a couple of months ago, he went into this and
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: he was so eloquent. I mean, he's incredible, and he
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: went into this explanation that I'm going with much better
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: than I am. So anybody that's interested in this topic
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: go see that interview with Mark. But he's talking about
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: culturally driven indecency basically, And I think the agenda has
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: an agenda. I think they have a reason for encouraging
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: the indecency that comes into the culture. So the culture
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: is not what we see in the culture today. When
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: you're saying it's so messed up, I think it's not organic.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: It's not natural. It's not a natural evolution of the culture,
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: because I think the culture will always if it's left
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: on its own, it will always kind of move back
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: toward this innate, ancient Egyptian idea. It will slowly move
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: toward that, and you know, it'll have its aberrations and
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: it's strange things that happen with wars or whatever, but
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: it will essentially move back to that foundation of decency.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: But to and I don't think our culture can do
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: that now because the agenda, the global agenda, is too
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: powerful and people are stupid. I mean that's I don't
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: know if the word stupid is right. They're just blind.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: And you know, we've been through that a million times.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: I think the majority of people just refuse to see it.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: They are so brainwashed into believing that the agenda can
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: do them no harm.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: And why do you think, why do you think we
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: want to have a difference between speech and profit and
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: speech and public. So, for example, in your home, you
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: have you have a hierarchy, and you have rules, and
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: the reason why you have all of that is because
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: it works. Well.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: There's not there's there's no incentive to control other than
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: controlling your kids and your family. You know, free speech
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: is somebody that gets up in front of a bunch
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: of people in order to try to move them in
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: a different direction. They're not They're not. You know, somebody
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: that stands up on a soapbox isn't talking about, you know,
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: how pretty the lilies are over in the park. You know,
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: they're talking about something that's probably you know, conflexual or
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: you know whatever. They're talking about something they want people
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: to listen to and to do something about.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, but so that's a public Okay. But if we
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: agree that restriction of speech is acceptable in private spaces,
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: why then did we get so upset to in YouTube
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: was censoring us during COVID and Facebook? These are quote
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: unquote private companies, right, they can have what appolicies they want.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: PayPal didn't lack certain speech and would cancel.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: See what you're saying that I basically have a problem
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: with that. I think that they're although they're trying to
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: do this again. Like what we were saying earlier that
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: the idea of free speech as a constitutional right or
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it, is between the speaker
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: and the state. It's it's a thane between them the
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: state because the state is essentially created by the people,
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: and the people have agreed that the state should not
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: interfere with people expressing themselves. Okay, because they may be
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: saying something like, you know, the state sucks. It's like
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: it's like we need to vote for so and so
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: to come in, you know whatever. I think private companies
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: that can get away with restricting free speech on platforms
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: like Facebook or YouTube or whatever, I think you're running
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: into some I mean, it's very complicated obviously legally because
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: they can't. They can't private companies can't discriminate racially. Okay,
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: they would get in trouble for that. No, but YouTube
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: took done mob videos about cooking. I know, I know,
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: so I don't really know the details of why they
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: can get away with that, but they can't get away.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: They can't get away with saying because you know, you're
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: an Arab because of your looks that they're going to
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: cut you off. You know, they can't do that, but
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: they can say we don't like what you're saying, and
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: they could say that about anything you know and get
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: rid of you. I don't know the distinction there, and
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: it's just because I'm stupid. I'm not a lawyer. I
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: don't know that kind of thing. But I find that odd.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: I find it odd that private companies can restrict speech,
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: but they can't restrict other things. They can't just do
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: anything they want.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: Well, you could argue, you could argue that they're not
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: really private, they're more public private partnerships, they're technocratic. You
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: can argue that because Google and Facebook are you know,
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: interwoven into into state interests anyway, So you could argue that.
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: But it's let's find the smaller company that perhaps isn't.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: Now for the most part, we'll go, oh, it's private company.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: You know, they've got rules so you can't. You can't
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: say that on their premises. But then we when we
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: are the ones facing the censorship or whatever, then suddenly
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: now now we do no longer agree with it. And
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: that's what I'm that's what I'm trying to figure out. Well,
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: I think that inconsistency.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we're talking about something that there's a
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: very clear answer to, and I obviously don't know what
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: it is, so I don't know if anything that I
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: have to say about that would have any releva.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: So let me say. Let me say this, with the
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: censorship that, for example, I faced with YouTube and Facebook
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: and Twitter and everything else, it also led to creative
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: counter responses, so you would find new ways of getting
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: your message out there. So it kind of forced a
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: degree of of of innovation, yes, yes, and creativity. Yes.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, that's like that with anything. Though you cut
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: your leg off, you'll figure out a way to get around,
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: but you still wouldn't choose to have you cut off,
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, think about it. With YouTube censorship, I think it
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: triggered a bunch of alternatives. Yeah. Yeah.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: Now you also have to factor in here too that
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: these private, massive private companies like YouTube and Facebook and
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: whatever are probably, and I think there's been proof of
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: this in certain specific incidents, are probably controlled by the state.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: Well that's what I said about the public private partnership.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're they're right, right, and they're certainly coerced
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: by the state, which which is where any of these
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: big infractions or complaints have come from, are from the
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: evidence that shows up that the government either subsidized some
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: project or gave money or paid for something. Well.
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: Facebook admitted that I think yeah, I think so. Zuckerberg
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: himself said that that they were influenced by the body demonstration.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: Right right, And you know, I I don't know. I mean, anytime,
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: like say YouTube for instance, just to use them, if
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: they're just vision to get rid of you, I think
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: that's going to work against them. From a capitalist kind
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: of kind of viewpoint. It's like, if you're controversial.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: In any way at all, then you're going.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: To be better for them to have you show up
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: on there whatever, then have some you know, Rainbow and
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: Unicorn podcast. That's just common sense. So them cutting out
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: all of these people that have been speaking out or
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: these doctors, deplatforming them and whatever, I can't. I mean,
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: that doesn't make any sense as far as business is concerned.
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: You know, business is always, especially media has always in
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: the past, wanted conflict. They want to have arguments, they
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: want people to disagree, and you know that sells more papers.
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: Back in the day when paper was the thing you
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: paid for, you know, so it doesn't really make a
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: lot of sense to me from an organic perspective that
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: any of these companies would on their own cord essentially
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: cut their own arm off for note, with no incentive
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: to do so. I think the media, and you know
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: this is not a idea by any means, but I
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: think the mainstream media is completely controlled by by the
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: Agenda and it just doesn't I mean, look at look
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: at the Soviet Union. I mean, such a good example
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: if you go back and look at at at their
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: media back during the height of the of the Soviet era.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously it was completely controlled, and the same
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: in Nazi Germany. It's like, you know, you control the media,
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: you control everything. So that would be one of the
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: very first things that the Agenda would attempt to, you know,
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: get their fingers into, is the media. And again this
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: is this is not news. This is about as old
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: as you get.
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: To be fair, though, the independent Meeta is also heavily controlled.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that's happening too big time, and I
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: didn't think, I mean even within the last six years.
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: It's interesting to me how they have managed to infiltrate
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: the alternative news world as well as just alternative thinkers.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: You know, they brought stuff in that causes a rift
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: and causes a I mean Trump is such a good
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: example of that. You know, when he first came along,
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: everybody on this side of the fence were saying, he's
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: going to save us, He's not part of the agenda.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: He's this, he's that, he's all these things. And then,
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: of course, I mean it was even before he got
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: into office the second time, but there was a rift.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: There was a split in the alternative world where there
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: were very hardcore people that believe that Trump was just
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: part of the whole. He was a puppet like everybody else,
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: and he was part of the agenda, the deep state,
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: and blah blah blah. They probably were right, but still
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: it was a rift, and it's still there. I mean,
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: I know a lot of people on this side of
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: the fence that are still very pro Trump, so you know,
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: it's still going on. I don't get that he's just
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: one example.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: I don't get that though, Yeah, that being pro I
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: don't get he's a politician, he's you know, ahead of state.
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: Why would you be pro or.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: Anty just because it's it's like bringing in the mongoose
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: to kill the cobras, you know, and the mongoose is
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: not anything to be proud of.
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, ultimately, he's middle management. He's an actor, just
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: like every other president and his state. Yeah.
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think most people that were pro not all
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: of them. I think there were some people that and
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: still are a lot of people that are that are
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: pro Trump that really do believe he's the greatest thing.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: But the people on our side of the fence, I know, me,
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: I I just saw him as a lesser of two evils.
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, I get that. I get that because of the metric.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: You know, he's he's he says the right things about
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: climate change and perhaps stuff a few you know, a
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: few things that are I.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: Think that's all limited hangout crap.
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and the and the culture wars thing is better,
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: and I agree with all of that. I think a
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: lot of the LGBTQ stuff in the States, from what
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: I can tell, has taken a dive since he became president.
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: And that's a good thing. Yeah, But ultimately it doesn't
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: matter because the pendulum is going to swing the other
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: direction soon. He's reaching the end of his.
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: Term, yeah, right, right right. I mean he may he
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: may have been responsible for a little bit of a reset,
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: like you know, headed with immigration, the trans thing, education
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: all that, we were headed so hard down the cliff
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: with that, and he may.
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: Have caused that to pull back a little bit, but that.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: Could ultimately be a bad thing because that pullback then
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: may accelerate.
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the dive when things switch over. So
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: it's you know, who is binary. But that's my point,
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: is not binary. He's not the savior and he's not
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: the great Satan, right right right.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: I think what I focused on in my writing was
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: something that I still feel very strongly about, this this
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: blind hate for him and the blind hate for anybody
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: that says anything good about him. Like everything you just said,
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: it's like there's some good things in there that you said.
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: It may not lead to good things, it may totally
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: fall apart, but you know you're saying certain good things.
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that you're saying Trump is a great
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: guy and a great president. You're just saying there's a
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: couple of things that he did in there that actually
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: made good sense. You're hated for that you would be
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: considered or by most of the people I know that
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: are on that kind of left side of the fence.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: That doesn't mean everybody, okay, but most that I know,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: and certainly what I see online hate you for that.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: There's there's it's all black and white. You either hate
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: Trump and one of him killed literally or you you
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: you love him and you believe he's the greatest saint
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: on earth. It's one or the other. And if you
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: fall anywhere in between, you're going to be thrown on
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: the bad side of it. Yeah, there is no in between.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: But that's and that's kooky to me. That's the trap
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: of the the false. Do call to me, Yeah, exactly topically, Yes, sir.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: Speaking of your writing, how can I follow it? You
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: can follow me on shrue views to sub stack www
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: dot shrewviews dot com. And I write a couple of
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: articles a week there along these lines that we've been
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: talking about, with a little bit of psychology in there
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: as well. I've also been there's two books, they're not
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: necessarily out there yet. Well, I actually have four books
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: because I have two Shrewd Shrewd Views books, The View
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: of the Shrew that that is on Amazon available now,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: but my other books will be coming out soon.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: That would be cool, Tode, and thank you for joining
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: me in the drenches,