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'The Outsiders' Tour Story & Characters | The BSB Podcast · The BSB Podcast

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Welcome back. Today we're taking you to Tulsa 1967 as we're talking about
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the North American touring production of The Outsiders.
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But before we adventure into the story and characters,
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like, follow, and subscribe to us @Bsb.Insider on all social media platforms.
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Spoiler warning, if you haven't seen The Outsiders yet and wish to keep your great
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expectations without any prior knowledge,
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pause this video and return once you have seen it.
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Joining us today is special guest,
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the one of a kind actress that needed a good cry.
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So she decides she might as well do it with this show,
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Emily Brown. Thank you so much for being here,
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Emily. How are you doing?
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Doing great, excited to chat.
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So I have to say that we are in an interesting predicament here because,
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not predicament, that's the wrong word,
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we're in an interesting situation because I feel like you've had RJ build
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the show up, you've had Clay build the show up,
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you've had a lot of people tell you how great this show is
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and you're finally getting to see it for the first time for yourself.
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Right, you have not seen it before?
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No, I'm not.
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Whew, so what did you know about the outsiders before coming to the show?
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So I and know everyone else ever when they were in seventh grade like
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was forced to read the book and Usually when you're forced to read a book
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it feels like a chore But the outsiders was one of the books that didn't It's just
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so good. And then you know, I'd like you get to watch the movie in class
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and after Clay head went to New York and saw the production
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and loved it When he came back,
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I was like, have you even seen the movie?
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you're missing out. And so we watched the movie again.
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So I've seen it pretty recently.
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~ But I noticed ~ my English teacher definitely cut out some of the parts
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of the movie, which good, but it was nice to,
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to like find new things about it,
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but it's always been cherished.
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I think that, yeah, I think, RJ,
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you read it too, correct? I'm trying to remember.
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We recorded our other podcasts for the other one,
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the Broadway version, like a year ago.
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So it's hard to remember exactly what we talked about in that one.
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But you've seen it, RJ, right?
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Well,
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Yes.
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no, you've read it. Of course you've seen it.
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We were there together. You watched me cry hysterically in our Broadway theater like
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it was my fucking job.
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Correct.
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But I...
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Rent is due.
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Listen, Emily, we were there and the person in front of me turned around
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and asked me if I was okay. Like asked me if I was all right because
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I clearly was not right. ~ I think part of it was that RJ
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and I were sick at that point of our trip.
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Like we were like physically
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no.
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not doing well. And so I think emotionally I was just like,
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I'm gonna cry. And for anybody who knows this story,
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my mom, when I was in...
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7th or 8th grade I was super sick and I once cried to an episode of Dora because
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I was watching Dora while they fell asleep and I cried because
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she wasn't listening to me about where to go on the map.
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So clearly I can just cry at the drop of a hat when it comes to being sick.
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You have such a big heart, Brian.
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I I try. And I truly went into this show at the Fisher thinking that
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I'm not gonna cry, we're on home turf,
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we're not gonna have an emotional reaction,
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we're gonna do okay. And then I spent...
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by we he means himself because I knew that he was going to be a mess.
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I just
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You
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didn't think he was gonna be a mess which is so funny to me but anyway
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You,
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you had no, you, you, you thought I was going to just melt into a pile of tears.
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You had no faith in me that I could remain strong here.
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This feels slightly blasphemous.
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Was I wrong?
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Hey, sometimes strength is showing vulnerability.
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It's okay.
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I that what is really telling about,
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I think the reason why I have such an emotional reaction to this show
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is the theme of family. I think it's a really big one here.
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And what I love about this show is that it doesn't just do what is blood family,
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but it also does what is your found family.
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I think it's a queer man that always gets to me because found family
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is just as important as real family,
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as we have. I I had a pretty good.
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relationship with my family and things didn't fall apart.
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But like you see this thing, know,
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as a specialist of a, you know,
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a therapist who specialized in LGBT,
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you see the story over and over again.
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And so I think that there is an emotional reaction to the fact of like,
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you're dealing with like, what is family and who is family?
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What about this theme? Do you feel like really shot to you,
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Emily, as you're kind of going into the show?
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~ Yeah, mean, a family is so big for me because my family is so close.
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~ And I think that, ~ like what we talked about in Prince of Egypt,
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like those emotional connections to your family,
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like that is what hits me. And that found family trope in movies
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and books and everything, it gets me every single time.
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~ Because even though like you hope that your blood is always there for you,
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Finding the people around you and building that community is so big.
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And we see that with the greasers for sure,
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but also with the Soc's They're both tight and they both have each other's backs,
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whether they're in the right or the wrong.
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For sure, for sure. mean, like you do truly,
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people like to very paint, like they like to paint the Soc's as bad.
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And when I was talking with some of the people from the show,
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they were like, what I love about the show is there's really like a
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lot of gray area, you know? And the fact of like,
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it is truly about them finding their family and finding their group and their bond,
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~ which is something RJ, we talked about when we saw the Broadway version
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of this as well.
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Yeah, well, in stepping into and owning,
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like, I think so many people,
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the show is so emotional because so many people don't necessarily lead what
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we would consider like a mainstream life or living.
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There's so many types of families.
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Yes, we talk about chosen family.
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~ Like, I think, like, I'm adopted.
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I think of people who have that experience.
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You have, ~
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foster, fostering, ~ just like there's so many variations.
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And so I think that this show could be interpreted in so many ways in regards
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to the people that you find closest to you and what they mean
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to you and really, I mean, throughout your life.
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I think what really stands out about those ties is like they're almost
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all trauma bounded, but that is what brings a lot of people together.
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It's like trauma or love. I mean,
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before we even start the show,
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we have the fact that the Curtis brothers have lost their parents.
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You know, that's a big driving force for where they're kind of at.
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You have Pony Boy, who is definitely the dreamer of the three.
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He wants to believe that they're still good in the world.
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You have Soda Pop, who is the hot one.
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And then you have Daryl, who is...
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No, you have Soda Pop who literally is,
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I think, the epitome of like the needing to stay strong for your family,
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but really having the heart of gold on the inside,
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you know, and just trying to like trying to remain such a steadfast branch
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of the family, but falling apart slowly on the inside.
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And then you have Darryl who just took on all that responsibility.
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And that's just one form of trauma that you kind of see impact this this group
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of people as well. You see it in the the greasers and how they're
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all bonded together because of horrible lives.
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And so I think that that is kind of part of,
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again, why I was so emotional is that like this level of trauma that's kind
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of bringing them all together and how you kind of feel that throughout the show.
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Well, in those relational connections,
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like you just mentioned, I even think of sibling stature.
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Like the eldest and the youngest and the middle child,
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you know? How much of ourselves do we see in these characters
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in regards to feeling like we owe our family something?
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Or on the flip side being like,
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love them but can't get away from them quick enough.
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There's just so many variations.
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portrayed throughout this show.
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think on both sides, not just,
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I mean, obviously we're focused in on the Curtis brothers,
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but we have those dynamics also within the two groups and or,
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know, quote unquote on the other side of the tracks ~ with the Socs.
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And family dynamics are so like touchy.
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Any change can like really affect the behavior of everyone involved.
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We see that all of the time in education.
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~ Like it might, a kid might be struggling for a million different reasons,
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you know, and you've to meet them where they are.
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And I think that's what at least the core three brothers are trying to
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do with each other. They're trying to meet ~ each other where they are.
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~ And of course, like Darryl is feeling like he's carrying everything when
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it feels like the other brothers are just trying their best and then an
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act two that really, I felt like that switched a lot where it's Pony Boy
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is the one that needs the help of his brothers and needs the support the most.
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And so they shift and they go and the way that their flow works,
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I think is very reminiscent of a strong family bond.
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For sure. And even when you see the struggling in it,
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because like, let's take the between Pony Boy and Daryl,
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like Pony Boy feels like his brother doesn't love him or understand him.
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And Daryl feels like Pony Boy is just being like a little bit of a brat.
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You know what I mean? And he just is trying really hard.
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And by the time you get into act two,
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you're really starting to see that like they kind of understand each other.
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Daryl seeing why Pony Boy is drawn to the greasers,
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because he just wanted somebody to love him.
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And that's kind of what Daly did for him,
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you know? ~ And Pony Boy is seeing that Daryl is trying his best.
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And like Darryl is hard because he knows he can be so much more.
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And I think that, again, like,
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RJ, what you said is, on what role you are,
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know, what you said was very eloquently.
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It was very much Darryl. We can tell you're the eldest kid here.
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But there is that. I think that that's one of the dynamics that spoke to me.
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I'm a pony boy. I'm the baby. Like,
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I'm the one that always was the dreamer and always had the big ideas.
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And I have my sister, who is the Darryl,
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who was just like.
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When if my mom's not around, she was trying to wrangle me in and stuff like that.
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And so it felt very real and it feels like they really understood these characters
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to kind of bring them together.
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Oh yeah, you can definitely see pieces of personalities in everyone.
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It's like a tag yourself moment,
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you know? But because their dynamics are so smooth,
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I also feel like that's also like real life.
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Like we have these oldest sibling,
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middle sibling, younger sibling,
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like stereotypes, but I don't know.
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Maybe this is like kind of cracking open how like untrue those could be too.
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I don't know. It's very interesting.
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It's very real.
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But when you look at something like the greasers,
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I think too, I love that there's the relationship between Johnny Cade and Ponyboy.
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And then there's Dallas as well.
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And there's even like 2-Bit, like all these people,
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there is that really, like again,
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they're all bonded by, they love each other way too much,
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you know? Like, and they're over-involved and they have too much grease
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in their hair. And that's something that we probably need to.
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address with these people. But ~ it does end up,
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you know, when you create that bond,
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does lead to like that kind of the other thing that really kind of spoke
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to me here is the us versus them,
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which I think is something that we're seeing a lot in today's society.
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We're seeing that a lot in every outlet everywhere where there's,
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know, when you have such a strong core identity to a group,
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it does become the, you know, Totem Pole theory,
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the we don't want to be the bottom.
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So we
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we gotta fight towards the top,
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you know? And so I think that that is a lot of what's going on here.
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And so you can kind of understand where the Soc's and the greasers are both kind
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of coming from in these dynamics.
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Why do we keep exploring such a trope that is so commonly in
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so many different things? You think about all the different,
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you think about Grease, you you think about ~ any other musical that
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I can't think of right now. But like,
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You
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this is a common
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trope, this us versus them, why do we keep exploring it?
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think maybe it's easier to face something that you don't like or you feel like
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is attacking you when you have like a team,
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I guess. ~ And so people in like situations like that,
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it might be like helpful to envision people on their side
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and building that community eventually.
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Great answer.
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but it's also
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just like, yeah, man, look outside.
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This is it. Everything's, it's.
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It feels like, right now at least,
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everything is built to be divisive.
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so it's like pick a team or your voice is drowned out.
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for sure.
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Well,
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in our society that is like so rampant with narcissism,
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like, and everyone's guilty of it.
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There's no, I don't think there's any party that isn't no matter what,
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who you identify with or what group,
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but that feeling of like,
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poor me, like I am always the least of these things.
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to then ramp up and be included in a group.
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And feeling, mean, that's like one of the basic,
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like feel a feeling of belonging,
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right? Like our lives are just implicitly better when we feel like
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we belong to something and whether or not we have truly invested
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our time or knowledge into knowing what that the core of that thing is,
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which is, think when we tie this to life today,
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like that is, that can be dangerous because if you don't know what
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the actual belief of
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of that system or that group is,
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then you could be supporting or representing something that
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you don't actually identify with.
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~ But then to acknowledge that you're potentially wrong,
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~ which in the case of the outsiders,
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you know, when there's a lot of death happening and a lot of violence
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and nobody's really taking, they don't know how to take the accountability.
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so like, obviously
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I should say, obviously, if you don't know the story,
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there's a little bit of running around happening and hiding and accountability
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is a little bit lacking. And so I think we all have been in a space where that's
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the case. Like we don't know what the next step to do is.
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And so we either like bury ourselves with being within that group
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or ignore the fact that it's happening because again,
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trauma.
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Yeah, I feel like that escaping ~ accountability too,
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and like all of the violence and the running away,
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I feel like every single time I think about this story,
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that's when I remember that they're children.
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And it like takes me that long because they're making such adult decisions
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and they're dealing with such adult things.
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And then all of a sudden something happens and they're scared because they're kids.
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And it breaks my heart.
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You know, if we're going to jump into one part of that specifically,
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I think really kind of sells that image.
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Cause Emily, you're so right. They are children.
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think sometimes people forget that because they're like 19,
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20 year olds on stage playing these parts.
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Right.
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Like
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in the book, Pony Boy is what 12,
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13? He's like a child. but one instance that always jumps out to me is when,
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~ Dally gives Johnny K the knife and like,
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it's a very like,
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You know, here's like a slightly older boy giving this younger boy a knife
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and being like that if you need to use it,
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use it. And then also when he does use it,
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everything falls apart, you know?
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And granted, there is the accountability of like,
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okay, who was at fault there? Whose actions is right,
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who's wrong? Everybody's wrong in the end.
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And they do get to run away from that,
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you know? Run away, change your hair,
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and you don't have to admit fault to what you did.
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But that's what a child would do.
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A child doesn't know how to take responsibility for,
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to that degree. This is like you took somebody's life.
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There was great loss here on all sides because of these actions,
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but none of us have a frontal lobe that are developed besides perhaps Daryl.
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Yeah,
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right. And look at what he's doing,
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going to his nine to five and doing laundry the whole show.
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and gave up the greasers. And that's a point that's actually a sticking point
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for a lot of these characters is you gave it up.
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You gave up this lifestyle. And he's like,
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yeah, I have to raise a family.
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And he's the only one that has
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Yes.
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that connection in his brain.
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Well, and yeah, and you think of as that plot line continues,
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the fact that we know that there's like literally no parents involved,
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right? Like, and specifically.
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the mention of an obviously the trauma from violence in the home
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or like absentee parentism or obviously with the Curtis brothers,
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their parents passing away. ~ So many dynamics change again when
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you throw that in. ~ And also just like how incredibly heartbreaking.
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And Emily, I'm sure in education you have parents who
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are extremely involved and those who are not.
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there's a, the need obviously per the individual changes.
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But again, when you're talking about children,
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it is crazy to think.
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And obviously it's a book, we know,
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but
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Right.
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drawing, drawing
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And it's 1967.
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to similar live experiences,
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that's incredible to me. Cause I think,
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also from experience like,
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My parents were always extremely pleasant,
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pleasant, present. ~ So to think that that wouldn't be the case for,
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again, a child, a teen, that
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Yeah.
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you're just carrying, that's brutal.
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Yeah, so of course they're like searching for that next like authority figure.
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They're looking to Daryl and when Daryl doesn't give them what they want,
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they go to Dally. ~ And even though Dally is telling them what to do,
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he's like leading them down the wrong path.
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Is Dally doing that on purpose?
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No, because that's what he did to get by.
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And so he's saying, okay, I made it this far.
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What I'm doing can't be wrong.
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Might as well give Johnny a knife.
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right? And if you take that one thing,
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you think about it, his character has run away from cities when things get tough.
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Like he's constantly running away because that's all he kind of knows.
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And he's finally when he's finally confronted with the situation that
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he can't see out of. He you know,
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he takes his own life and that is like to him,
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there was no there was no way out.
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And again, there was no there was no thinking it through.
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There was no like talking through this situation.
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~
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And actually, I'll tell you, as a psychologist who's worked with lot of children,
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sometimes parents are very, very involved,
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over-involved sometimes, and sometimes they are just completely hands-off,
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and you're like, this is part of the problem.
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Like, the part of the problem is that you're not here to be a guiding figure
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to them. You're not here that they feel like they can even talk to
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you when things are getting difficult.
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And so they do turn to things that are less than okay,
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less than golden.
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How
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dare you?
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or
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what is it named?
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Hey, listen, have to give the people something,
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you ~
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You
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But I think that what's also interesting about this show,
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before we go on to individual performances that we have to talk about,
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is the narration style as well.
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~ We have a story where the narrator is popping in and out.
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So, listeners, ~ Pony Boy is telling his story.
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And so sometimes he's talking to the audience.
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Sometimes he's in the audience.
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And sometimes he's interacting with the audience,
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but then he's
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popping back into a story that is very much about his life.
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And RJ reminds me lot of liberation,
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where she's talking to the audience,
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she'll pop back in. This one doesn't exactly feel like a memory show,
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but does the narration style work for the outsiders?
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Well, I think it's more simplistic in the Outsiders.
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Liberation, to me,
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while it was a little bit more subtle going with the in and out,
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whereas with this, was like everyone froze or was in slow motion.
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Like, it was very clear that it was being narrated rather than lived
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in or vice versa. So I thought it worked.
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I think people enjoy that like full circle moment.
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which we get with this as well.
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~ And they just automatically feel more engaged.
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Like him coming up the aisle, walking through the theater,
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and then, you know, ending the way it does.
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Like it's just people, it adds that level of intimacy rather than just like watching
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it happen from a, with that fourth wall still there.
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You know, Emilly before I get to your opinion real quick,
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I just want to let you know that when he was walking down the aisle and
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he gets up there and I knew that like the song,
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and we're talking more about the music in part two,
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but I knew that the song began with,
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I've never been out of Tulsa before.
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And I knew that was also the ending of the show.
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And I legitimately started sobbing in that first second and suddenly started singing
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for no reason other than the
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You
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fact I knew it was coming at the end of the show.
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And I was like, what is wrong with me here?
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I was so strong for literally two seconds.
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I was like, he's walking down the aisle.
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It's totally fine. And then lost my ever loving mind as soon as he started singing.
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You have to.
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You have to. When it's that good,
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you have to.
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Did you like that narration style?
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As someone who hadn't seen the show before,
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did it feel natural to the outsiders?
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Certainly, think having one main guy telling you stuff is a pretty classic thing
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to do ~ in at least contemporary musicals.
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Certainly not in the Renaissance era of things,
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but ~ I liked the beginning and the book ends
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of the show ~ really, really reminded me of reading the book for the first time
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and having my seventh grade mind blown.
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when like at the end of the book,
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you're like, my gosh, this is Pony Boy's notebook.
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Like this is the thing. And so I think there's obviously a little less shock when
22:20
he's been narrating it the whole time.
22:22
~ But I really like that full circle moment,
22:27
right? It's perfect, ties it all together.
22:29
You see how far he's come. It's great,
22:32
warm.
22:32
Absolutely. It truly is like it's that full circle moment,
22:36
you know, where it's like it's the circle of life but for the outsiders,
22:39
you know, it just and it was interesting is that Julie Tamar's daughter
22:44
was involved in this production and Julie Tamar was the choreographer
22:47
for the Lion King and so
22:48
No way.
22:49
yeah, she was a choreographer for the outsiders.
22:52
So it's interesting that we have this moment of kind of,
22:54
you know, two things at the same time in Detroit.
22:56
We love that. ~
22:59
I do think that it adds a level of authenticity to the show when it feels like it's
23:03
actually Pony Boy's story, especially when he hands that book off to
23:07
the person in the crowd, because it's like passing off that...
23:11
It's very meta. I'm passing off this book that you've already read pretty much,
23:15
and in that moment, you are now part of that story.
23:19
So do think the narration works really well.
23:21
think, you're 100 % right. It works better than Liberation does because
23:25
it feels more natural to the story.
23:27
And part of that could be because the novel itself is told in first person.
23:30
So that does give it that authenticity feel.
23:34
and kind of like gives Daryl and Soda Pop a reason to be like,
23:38
yeah, you're a good writer. You have to go to school.
23:40
It's like, yeah, we've been listening to your writing this whole time.
23:42
It's pretty great. Go to school.
23:44
We know, we know you are going to be a good writer.
23:46
Yeah.
23:50
Or, know, just, you know, during COVID stumble into it and start writing
23:53
and that happens too. So obviously we have to talk about the performances and,
24:00
know, we're talking about the,
24:01
like the acting aspects, because we're going to get to the vocals in part two,
24:05
stay with us people, we'll get there.
24:07
~
24:09
I think I was most blown away by Nolan White.
24:13
I think that it was because ~ when RJ and I saw
24:18
the outsiders on Broadway, we had no slight against the other study,
24:23
but this one felt like Nolan understood Pony Boy a little bit more,
24:27
probably because maybe he's been living in it for a little bit longer.
24:30
So that was really a standout for me.
24:32
Along with Johnny Cade, thought Johnny Cade,
24:33
Bonale Fambrini, it was fantastic.
24:38
~ But Emily, what characters really stood out to you or like why
24:40
do their stories resonate with you the most?
24:43
~ I was absolutely blown away by Tyler Jordan Wesley's Dally.
24:48
my gosh. Like the second he was on stage,
24:52
it felt like I'm just watching him.
24:54
It was fantastic. The way that he commanded the stage is the same
24:58
way he commanded the greasers.
25:00
It's just, my gosh, it was amazing.
25:03
He was really good. like, think Dally is such a hard character to pull
25:08
off because he can almost feel very ~ one dimensional,
25:13
you he could just be a very angry person.
25:15
And there was kind of like a soft side to this Dally.
25:19
For sure, yeah, he wanted to help Johnny,
25:21
but like he wants to help them all.
25:24
He wants them not to feel like that anymore,
25:26
but you know, things happen.
25:29
Things happen.
25:30
things happen.
25:33
RJ, comparatively from Broadway,
25:35
what roles really start to you this time?
25:37
Comparatively
25:39
Or you could just tell me who jumps out at you in the show and why is it cherry?
25:42
Why
25:43
You
25:43
is it, why is it soda pop? Cause that's everybody should be watching
25:47
it for soda pop.
25:48
Oh
25:48
my gosh, the collective audience like sigh.
25:54
I
25:55
Ugh.
25:57
can't.
25:58
don't think that happened. Well,
26:01
again, I was very sick and just maybe not in tune.
26:04
But yeah, the audible from the audience in Detroit versus even New York,
26:09
I feel like it was greater in Detroit.
26:12
I don't know if it's because
26:12
my gosh.
26:13
people weren't expecting it. And so,
26:16
but I was like, okay. I mean, I like go off,
26:21
but like, I don't care.
26:24
So.
26:26
Listen.
26:27
Well, some of us out there did care,
26:28
so.
26:30
Clearly,
26:30
I'm just, I'm not going to,
26:32
a bullseye.
26:34
I'm not going to name names, but someone did text RJ said,
26:37
I know why Brian likes the show so much.
26:39
And I said it was for the plot.
26:40
~ and it was
26:41
Huh? Uh-huh?
26:43
for the plot, the plot of those six pack abs So.
26:46
I
26:47
can think of six plots right now that Brian enjoyed.
26:51
Absolutely, I was like, mm-hmm.
26:52
Yeah, I remember I remember why the show was so good
26:55
Ugh, but all that to say...
26:58
And I don't know, I think I was just impressed with the youthfulness of this cast.
27:04
Like so many of them in reading the bios,
27:07
like so many of them were newer to Broadway stages or a touring stage.
27:12
so
27:12
They're babies.
27:14
yeah, they're just like either in college or fresh out of college
27:18
or just barely like a lot of debuts.
27:22
And the chemistry overall felt
27:28
authentic. Which for a show that hasn't been running very long felt
27:35
impressive, especially given the age.
27:38
~ So I guess I would say that because like honestly,
27:42
so many of them, they're all incredible.
27:44
~ And vocally, I feel like they were all at the same caliber.
27:49
I'm not sure if anyone stood out to me ~ particularly but
27:57
Yeah, just,
27:57
I will agree that.
27:59
I believed that they were family.
28:00
I believed that they had been like hanging out ~ for some time.
28:05
I will 100 % back that up where I thought that the chemistry between this cast
28:09
was just incredible. And I think it kind of goes back to when
28:13
I was interviewing Nolan White,
28:14
he was talking about how he doesn't start a show before finding,
28:17
~ Johnny Cade for sure, but I'm pretty sure he also finds Tyler who plays Dallas
28:21
and they all have to hug before they go out on stage.
28:23
Like that's like one of the rituals is they have to hug.
28:25
And then when, as I was interviewing him,
28:28
at one point, Nolan paused the microphone to talk to somebody.
28:33
And he's like, all in these rooms together.
28:36
Sometimes I feel like when you get to be certain shows or you get to be
28:39
a big enough actor, you get your own room.
28:41
You get to go do your own thing.
28:42
And this one, felt almost like,
28:44
you know when you were in high school or middle school and you went
28:47
on those trips together with your friends to Washington,
28:49
DC or something?
28:50
Mm-hmm.
28:51
That's what it of feels like a little bit.
28:52
You're here with your friends,
28:53
you're having a good time, you're having the time of your life together,
28:56
and that really showed in the chemistry that was being built on stage with these
28:59
actors.
29:01
It is like the little things that make those moments feel legit,
29:05
where it's like, yeah, of course it seems like your friend's on stage,
29:08
your friend's off stage too.
29:10
Mm-hmm. Like, they all were fangirling when Corbin took off his shirt.
29:14
And we were right there with them.
29:16
And with that, we are running out of time,
29:17
but stay tuned for part two of our Outsiders Discussion.
29:20
But before we go, Emily, where can the people find you?
29:23
~ On Instagram at Emily_Grace44 Thank you
29:28
Thank you again for joining us here in our box seats until next curtain call.