Latest / She Speaks to Scale / 11. Talking Nonsense and Making Brilliant Podcasts, with The Podcast Lady, Zoe Hanson
Transcript
- Sarah Collins: Hi Zoe, thank you so much for joining me. Now, I just wanted to give a little bit of context that Zoe and I met at a networking event and we did a follow-up call, didn't we? And we really hit it off because we've got a similar background in that we can both say that we spent 20 years getting up at a ridiculous time in the morning working on live breakfast shows. Obviously you're a radio, me and TV. Zoe, so... What was one myth you would love to dispel about what you do? My guest today is founder of the podcast lady, Zoe Hansen, who after twenty years hosting breakfast shows on Capital and Heart Radio and now helps businesses make brilliant podcasts. Let's dive into the conversation. Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Yes. Sarah Collins: Thank you for listening to this episode of She Speaks to Scale. If you liked the episode or you think it will be useful for someone else, please follow and leave a review. If you've got any questions, do let me know via the social handles in the show notes. And remember to speak with intention, not hesitation, and let your voice be heard. Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: that you can buy a microphone, talk into it, and that makes a great podcast. Sarah Collins: Go on, elaborate on that. Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Ha ha ha! Sarah Collins: But yeah, we really had that in common, didn't we? So I'm really, really excited about this conversation. Hello and welcome to She Speaks to Scale with me, Sarah Collins. The podcast that empowers women in business to own their voice, be heard and create impact, one communication insight at a time. I'm a media trainer and communication coach and a former senior television producer. It's my mission to bring the communication skills we need to thrive in today's world of business to the generation of women who simply weren't taught them. Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: so there has to be a lot of thought goes into it People think that Yes into a microphone. Yeah, we got a podcast ⁓ and lots of people think their conversations very entertaining and ⁓ they probably are down the pub But not talking to your mates. You have to who you're talking to you know, it makes your world very different, doesn't it? So getting up at 4.30 in the morning or 3.30 in the morning to go off to work, your whole day shifts. And what I always found doing breakfast shows was I would eat an extra meal a day because I got up and thought, right, breakfast time. Sarah Collins: Whether it's scaling your voice to step into thought leadership in a media interview, speaking with confidence on camera, on stage and beyond, or scaling the way you communicate when it really counts. This podcast will help you use your voice to be heard in the moments that matter. Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: podcasts are split up into thirds and it should be equal thirds. So you need to work hard at every third of it. The first third is preparation and planning. That's where you talk about your audience, your roadmap for the series, your roadmap for the episode where you curate your content. and then you'd do the show and then come off air and it would be breakfast time. Get home, that's lunch time. Better have some dinner and then go to bed. Sarah Collins: Yeah. I know, and I don't know about you, but I am forever an early bird now. No changing me. Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: ⁓ absolutely. And my daughter is now 13 and still will not wake up anywhere past six o'clock in the morning because she's just so programmed to do that early rise. Sarah Collins: Hahaha Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Then there's the middle piece, which is the making of. And the making of is not just putting down the microphone and having a chat with somebody and all of that stuff. It's all of the planning and the prep that comes into this and knowing exactly where you're going with the conversation. Then it's the editing, Sarah Collins: Yeah, brilliant. Now Zoe, start every podcast by asking my guests, can you share the moment when you realised that your voice truly mattered? Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: So I'm not really sure that it does. I sort of describe what I do as sort of talking nonsense. But my voice matters most when I'm talking to other people about their stories. So it's my voice and my ears because it's my voice amplifying other stories, I suppose. Sarah Collins: Hahaha Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Everybody goes, ⁓ well, ⁓ well, just get somebody to edit it. Yeah, OK. But ⁓ you haven't got the raw materials there in the first place, you can't come up with a good podcast. ⁓ you've got the editing and the producing. And then the final piece, and this is again, a lot of people miss this piece. It's the marketing of the promotion of it's the putting it out there on the platforms. ⁓ knows you're there until. ⁓ For years it was on the radio and, nonsense and, know, larking about and whatever. But now it's telling people stories. So throughout my podcasting career, we've worked with lots of different businesses and industries and all sorts of different things to amplify those voices. And that's... You're shouting about it. so things to help that are your clips social media, your social talking to that audience, bringing them and saying, actually, I can give you more. There's also... ⁓ what really matters is telling those stories and being able to give people a platform to talk about what they do and why they do it because everybody then buys in, everybody then connects, everybody ⁓ in on their story and it ⁓ a bigger platform for those people. a lot of people will miss this. The transcription of your podcast can be used for SEO and GEO. And that can become a blog that sits on your website that gifts those people that want to read it rather than listen to it. It gifts them that same information. And the evergreen podcasts. So this happens all the time. People Does that answer the question? Because I talked about listening and stuff. the first time I realized that my voice might make a difference was at the end of senior school when I got my Head of Years Award for loudest contribution to discussion. put their podcast out and then they forget about that one and they're on to the next one. Whereas actually you could be putting these out every three months, the same episode, nobody's going to say, well, I've already listened to that one. Why have you put that one out again? out there again. What are people looking for? And I'm like, well, make a living out of it now. So that's all right. Sarah Collins: There's so many things there that I want to pick up on. So first of all, said there about talking nonsense and I actually really like that ⁓ almost kind of, ⁓ way of describing what you're saying ⁓ because so people put pressure on themselves to say the right thing. They have to say it in a certain way. And actually when you... ⁓ Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Yeah. When do your audience need that information? I talked a Barristers podcast where the Society said, you need to listen to this if you're going to study law. We'll put that one out in August. Put it out again in September. Sarah Collins: reframe it and change it to talking nonsense, it just puts a positive spin on it, doesn't it? Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Right. And actually, do you know what? Everybody loves it. If you know, there's a bit of dead air or if there's a mistake made or whatever, you know, like we're all mates together and we'll all have a bit of a laugh about it. That's fine. Right. But we're all your safety net. We're, you know, we want you to win. so that people know where they can find these things. It's all about knowing your audience and when they want to consume this information. I've always wanted to do like, a, it sounds awful, but like a death podcast because it's information you don't need until you need it. Sarah Collins: Now you said there about you won the award. Was that the loudest discussion? Okay, so you obviously had a loud voice, did you then when you were at senior school? I'm imagining from that title. How did that put you in kind of good stead? How did you then get into the career that you obviously went into? Tell us a bit about that. Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Contribution to discussion. Thank So I went and did performing arts at college, basically because I wanted to waste time before I became a police officer. And then I quite enjoyed my performing arts. So I thought, oh, OK, this is pretty good. So off I went to Butlins for about seven years to be a Redcoat 18-year-old and just absolutely adored it. Sarah Collins: Yeah. Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Nobody's like, okay, well, I need to know what I need to do when the time comes. soon as you're in that situation and you are doing the admin for somebody that's passed away, you need that information straight away. And you always think that would be an amazing podcast to make because ⁓ you're to somebody when you're giving them information, you're giving them the to-do list that... ⁓ Sarah Collins: Mm-hmm. Mm. Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: at you have a captive audience because these people have come there, they've come to be entertained. They're ready to laugh and have a wonderful time, you know. ⁓ So just a great apprenticeship for ⁓ building for ⁓ learning learning how to connect with an audience. They probably don't know that they need at that time and they just need it just set out for them. This is what you need to do. Then you ring them, then you get in touch with them and this is how you do it. all up for that. Just that helping people along, gifting people ⁓ right information at the right time. Sarah Collins: I really love the way that you phrase that about gifting people information. I think that's really, really great. I'm going to remember that one. Zoe, we've talked about so much in this episode. Where can people find you? Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: a lot of the stuff that I did was on stage. I was one of the redcoats that was performing in shows all the time, ⁓ maybe six shows a day. But the rest the time, if you were your uniform, ⁓ you had to say hello to people. when I at the hotel in Blackpool, you used have to get up to do the... ⁓ So my website, the Podcast Lady, you can follow me on there. I've got a new podcast coming out about that midlife piece. So I'm a big advocate at the moment for I'm 51 and I've never felt better. And I'm not trying to be 25 or act like I am anymore. I've sort of... Sarah Collins: Mmm. Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: dancing. If you didn't know how to do the ballroom dancing, you found someone that knew and they would take you up and teach you it. ⁓ you had to build a connection. You had to be able to converse with people and make a connection really quickly. quickly. ⁓ I found that wearing a football badge where I'm from stepped into this midlife era and I feel more confident and less worried about what people think and happier than I've ever been. ⁓ podcast will be out very, very soon. So watch out for it. would make a connection quickly. ⁓ you're such and such. ⁓ I remember da-da-da. it's finding that common ground. Sarah Collins: I'm so glad to hear that. Definitely looking out for that one. Now to wrap up each episode, I asked my guests to fill in the blank. So if you could tell listeners to speak with and then perhaps add a phrase or a word, just something that gives them a little bit of inspiration as they go about their day, what would that be? Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Okay, speak with authority. or authenticity. means you know what you want to say. And people can't ignore you ⁓ ⁓ confident And authenticity ⁓ ⁓ thing that makes people like you. It's the thing that makes people connect with you. It's the thing that ⁓ people trust you and gives you that likeability. It's the thing that people say, ⁓ you're like me. ⁓ Brilliant. we'll get on then. Then I went off to ⁓ be an actor in a theatre show and I realised on that tour that I wasn't a good actor, ⁓ that I was better off being myself. ⁓ It was hard work, So... Sarah Collins: Yeah. Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: While I was working in London and I was doing lots of promotional stuff, I was working at the Ideal Home exhibition and they were selling cases of wine and they had a radio studio at the exhibition. And they said, would anybody like to do some interviews about wine? And I said, yeah, I'll do it. So off we went. And after I'd done a couple of these interviews, the producer of this radio Sarah Collins: Thank you so much, Zoe. Thank you. I've really enjoyed our conversation. ⁓ Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Oh, same. Love it. And look, it couldn't be any more authentic, could it? You know, I've got the washing machine going, you've got the dog barking, there's the authenticity. Sarah Collins: Don't forget your tea outside the door. Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: ⁓ yes! Sarah Collins: It was all in there, our tech issues as well. But you know, we're here and we're enjoying it, aren't we? Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: studio said, you're quite good at this. I said, well, this is what I want to do. So he helped me put a demo together. And I think six weeks later, I was on a breakfast show in the Heady Heights, the Mecca of entertainment that is Western Supermare. ⁓ But it was my first foray into radio. And I was like, wow, this is incredible. We've got nine. Yeah, love it. But why not? You know, the authenticity piece on a Zoom call is always, your bike's not on. Sarah Collins: Yeah, yeah, we got that one at least, that's good. Right, take care and thank you so much. Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Thank you. thousand listeners that's amazing and my next radio station had something like 700 000 listeners that's a phone number Sarah Collins: would have laid. Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: So, yeah, I then worked on GWR in Bristol, which is also where I'm from, so it was home ground and it was amazing. I worked on Red Dragon in Cardiff, then Capitol Radio in London, on The Breakfast Show with Johnny Vaughan, and then came down to the South Coast and worked on Power FM and then Heart. Sarah Collins: You spoke really fondly there about your time in radio. How did you then move across into podcasting? What was that journey? Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: So 20 years of getting up at silly o'clock ⁓ and doing breakfast shows on the radio, Heart, which I'd been on at the time for seven years, they decided to national. ⁓ Now this had always been a thing in radio. We always knew that everything was gonna go national. But it was... I suppose it was a bit heartbreaking because that was it, it was done. I was gonna be on a breakfast show. With, at the time, a seven-year-old daughter, ⁓ there was way that I could do a drive-time show because that would be missing pick-up from school and bedtime and everything else. ⁓ So I up a podcast. ⁓ because I thought if heart's going national, we'll go local. Because that's maybe the missing piece now. So we set up Southampton's podcast, The So So Show. still going strong, this is sort of ⁓ seven years on and we love it and it's this beacon for Southampton and we ⁓ talk about all of the amazing businesses, the amazing events and people and... ⁓ We really shine a positive light on everything that goes on. ⁓ talk about everything that's happening and how brilliant Southampton is. We have ⁓ the second biggest park run in the country. Sarah Collins: you Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: sometimes in the world here at Southampton that community and that buzz is sort what we try and capture ⁓ on the So So Show. a couple of months into making it, we had a couple of businesses approach us and we want to make our own podcast. Can you help us? ⁓ And I said, yes, of course. ⁓ The podcast lady was born and... it does great stuff. have to see me as your chauffeur. What are the stories? What are the bullet points that you want to cover? ⁓ And I'll get you there. Sarah Collins: Mm. Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: but it just looks as if it's just a natural conversation. I know the answers and I know the stories that you're going to tell. So I can say, has there ever been a time when da-da-da happened? And with the zoo, we love making Marwell Zoo's podcast. It's something completely different. And it's not just a podcast that you can listen to whenever. It also becomes an audio guide when you're there in front of the animals. So it's almost like you don't have to be there for the keeper talk. You've got it in your ears and they're telling you all about the snow leopards or the tiger or the giraffe. that's fascinating to work on. know, that's brilliant. Sarah Collins: Your passion absolutely shines through. From the minute we started this conversation and you started talking about podcasts, you just light up, you can really tell. When we both started in TV, For You, podcasts weren't even around. But it's such a brilliant platform. You spoke there about... Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Hahaha! No. Sarah Collins: people creating their own. I've just been on my own journey, and launching my own podcast. ⁓ And a fantastic platform, isn't it, for ⁓ using voice to speak. ⁓ you said about sharing stories. Is that what you truly love about it or ⁓ what, what, there anything Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Yes. I truly love being able to help people share their story and connect with their audience. when the penny drops for them and they go, ⁓ yeah. So if I tell this story and I share my thoughts and my feelings, somebody that's on a dog walk listening to this taps into this and they connect with me and then they come to me for my services and that's it. Sarah Collins: Voila! Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: It is, isn't it? Look, it's that whole people buy people and they do buy into it and they buy into the story. We hear all this stuff about branding and whatever. And I'm like, OK, just talk to me like a normal person. We don't want to hear the company strapline. Nobody does that. nobody is listening to a podcast where they're towing the company line and going, right, definitely I like these people. You know, there's a podcast that I made for an accountancy firm that was after ground workers. And when we made a podcast that absolutely spoke to them, it flew. And it was, should I be a sole trader or a limited company? And what they did was they listened to that. And then they came for that accountant services, because they said, you speak to me, you speak my language. Okay, I can talk to you. Sarah Collins: Yeah. Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: That's it, isn't it? Sarah Collins: But it's quite an intimate act, isn't it? to someone's voice in your ear. ⁓ ⁓ kind of fast tracks that know, like and trust factor, doesn't it? Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Yeah. And I think it's, it's so connected. You're talking straight into somebody's brain. And I say about, I know that you do this very, very well, Sarah, but there's only ever one listener. You have to really hone that. You know, I've been told that for years and years and years. think it's Terry Wogan said that as well, wasn't it? Like there's only ever one listener. You talk directly to them and you will have a conversation without them being there. There was a barrister that came to me and said, I don't really like networking. Can I make a podcast instead? said, yes, of course. And she has been held up on the law society. They're like, if you're going to study law, you need to listen to this. She's just very candid about it. And actually, it's just amplifying that personality without standing in front of somebody. They can gauge you, and they engage in it as well. Sarah Collins: I'm glad. Yeah. Mm. Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: If you're on a dog walk and you've got a podcast in your ear and it says, imagine you're sat in the pub in the corner in that old rickety chair and you've got a pint of Guinness in front of you. You're picturing it straight away and there seems to be this ⁓ big move, big shift to video. And I say to people, look, ⁓ use video. Like. Use a full length video on YouTube. Use the clips on social media. But please, please, please don't forget that it's something like 95 % of podcasts are still just audio. you have to remember that that's really hard like me ⁓ in December, you are interviewing a guy called Max Fulham, who's a comedian and he was in the pantomime down here and he is a ventriloquist and has a monkey sat on his lap that's also talking to you. So you have to remember that audio thing because you don't want anybody to turn off, you know, and it can sound, ⁓ hang on, I don't know what's going on. Sarah Collins: Yeah. Yeah. That sounds like a whole other level. Doesn't it? Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Yeah, ⁓ It really is. And I have to say, ⁓ well, thank you, Gordon the monkey. ⁓ Sarah Collins: Brilliant, brilliant. So obviously listeners to this podcast might be perhaps taking their first steps into podcasting, whether that's being a guest or perhaps even creating their own podcast. Breaking that down then, what would you say would be your top tips for using your voice in that way? Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Is it? Okay. Let's do making a podcast first and then we'll come back to guesting. So I think making a podcast, the first thing that you need to do is identify your audience. It's no good saying, it's everyone. It isn't. And once you've identified that audience, focus down on it. Just absolutely drill it down. Who are they? Where do they live? Who do they live with? Have they got a dog? Who are their mates? ⁓ one question I love about the audience ⁓ the target listener is, what do they do on a Sunday morning? Because it really tells you. ⁓ where they are and what they do. Well, I think they take the kids to football and then they, know, and you really build a picture of them. And then once you've identified your audience, you need to know who they are, why you want them to listen and what you want them to do afterwards. So is it that you want them to buy your services? If it's that, then you need to be in your episodes, gifting them something. So identify your audience, then cut the faff. That ⁓ once you're talking to your audience, ⁓ if there's something in there that is not relevant, ⁓ cut it. a conversation that happens in a lot podcasts that we just need, ⁓ which is, hello, how are you? I'm fine. How are you? I'm fine ⁓ we've got that you're fine because you're there. ⁓ That's it. ⁓ No, didn't. No, didn't. And I was really conscious not to that and bring it up. Sarah Collins: We didn't do that, we? That's good. Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Hang on, somebody's at the door. I love these. I'll be two seconds. Sarah Collins: My voice is too! Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Right. Sarah Collins: So a really funny thing happened when you were just talking then, because you were saying about your top tips when it came to creating a podcast. And obviously I've just been through my own journey of creating a podcast. And as you were talking, I had all this inner chatter and I was overthinking everything. And I was thinking, have I done that? Have I done that? ⁓ unbelievable. Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Yours is absolutely brilliant, Sarah. I've listened to it. And actually, you've gifted me something. a solo episode that you did, and you talk about why we feel so vulnerable putting ourselves out there and sort of trying be heard. And it's about that judgment thing. ⁓ And it back to sort of tribal times when ⁓ if you up and you were then... ⁓ not included in the tribe. You were an outcast and you didn't, you weren't involved and it's that. It's a really, really instinctive thing, isn't it? Just to keep you safe to, okay, as long as I'm quiet, this will be fine. We'll just ride it out. yeah, thank you because you've gifted me that. ⁓ it's of those things that I'll always remember. Sarah Collins: Well, I'm on the right track. So thank you for that. ⁓ Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Absolutely. Absolutely you are. But also you have to... This word is banded around all the time at the moment. Authenticity. That is worth so much. The fact that you're checking it and you're going, okay, right, so there's three top tips, but actually am I doing all of those? It means you're authentic. and the fact that you ⁓ talk about vulnerabilities and those times where you're questioning yourself. ⁓ All of things are very attractive because ⁓ it connects us because we do exactly the You know, I'm coming on here today. I've done hundreds of these. ⁓ Sarah Collins: Mm. Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: But I'm so nervous doing it. And I, you know, it might be a bit of excitement, but I do get that adrenaline, you know, my watch goes off and says, you're stressed out, sit down and breathe. Sarah Collins: ⁓ You don't see them. Thank But again, it comes back to that intimate setting, actually it is me and you here on this call, will be several people listening to this, as we've ⁓ in that intimate way in your ear. you said there about authenticity and I think long gone are the days, aren't they, where perhaps you're a spokesperson for an organization or you're running your own business ⁓ and we like we have to put on this voice. You we have to speak in a certain way, say the right terminology ⁓ and be perhaps as something that we're not. ⁓ So ⁓ Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Yeah. Sarah Collins: Authenticity, I think, is vital, isn't it, in this day and age? And stories really come into that as well, don't they? Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Yes. I think authenticity is the key to everything. You can see on social media, it's the authentic people, it's the passionate people ⁓ I go ⁓ and the that ⁓ are fast, great. ⁓ But the people that are authentically starting and talking about it hurting and the fact that it's raining and they've got to put their trainers on because they've put in for the marathon and they got in the ballot. It's those ones that we buy into and we sort of cheerlead for them, isn't it? ⁓ authenticity is... the good and the bad. I think as well that I found... ⁓ Vulnerability builds confidence. So sharing something that you found hard is not only the authentic, vulnerable piece, but you can gain a lot of confidence from that. So if I put out somewhere that I am a completely lone parent and I haven't done it yet, But I know that when I post that out, I will feel in the beginning, ugh, ugh, feel sick putting that out there. But actually, it's a really authentic, ⁓ piece, and it's a big piece of my life. So when I share that and I speak up about that and how hard that is, ⁓ think it builds confidence in me. from doing that. Sarah Collins: Yeah, I would completely agree. Actually, even just sharing my story through my podcast has really helped my confidence grow as well. I saw that throughout my career, just ⁓ people sharing their stories. You go on your own journey, don't you, of kind of self-acceptance ⁓ and confidence ⁓ when you the lows, well as the highs. Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Yeah. Yes. Sarah Collins: I think authenticity, I would say, is the number one thing that when you're doing, perhaps podcast guesting, you need to bring into the conversation. ⁓ What qualities do you think make a good podcast guest? Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Okay, so guesting, think is about knowing your story so that you can tell it authentically. on to a podcast, What are going to talk about? What story do want? I have lots of people come to different podcasts that I make and they'll say, can you me the questions? Because ⁓ I don't know. Sarah Collins: Mm. Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: let's say it's the Southampton Marathon. I to the organiser and I'll say, okay, well, I just want you to about that event. It's fine. You know all the answers. It's fine. It's just that you're going, ⁓ it's going to be recorded. There's something about it being and forevermore ⁓ being there that makes people go, ⁓ So. I think it's about knowing what you're going to be asked and that they just want to chat to you about it. things like, if I go and speak to a restaurant in Southampton, I'll ask them, but what's your favorite on the menu? and that's just a nice little chatty thing because you can get stuck in the sales ⁓ speak ⁓ over here, but that mean you're selling it. Absolutely. It's the authentic, okay, what's the most popular on the menu and how many of those do you have to make on a Saturday morning or whatever it is. knowing what you want to say in the story that you want to tell. Sarah Collins: Yeah, it's having that clarity, isn't it? That clarity and it's all in the preparation. Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: Yeah. ⁓ so check in with your podcast host, you know, what do you want from me? what are you expecting of me? Okay, well, I just want to talk to you about the new ride at Poulton's Park. Okay, well, we can do that. That's all right. I've got all of the stats, but actually, let's just chat about it. Is it going to make me scream? Yes, it is. Right. ⁓ Sarah Collins: Mm. A fun job, haven't you? Zoe Hanson - The Podcast Lady: I know it opens in two weeks and I'm like ⁓ gosh this goes upside down are you kidding me