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Fraggle Talk: Back to the Rock - Ep. 202 "The Twisty-Turny-Thon" · Muppet Fan Podcasts with ToughPigs.com

0:09
Hello and welcome to Fraggle Talk, the unofficial Fraggle
0:13
Rock podcast brought to you by toughpigs.com.
0:16
This is the podcast where we cover Fraggle Rock back to the
0:18
rock episode by episode, along with the talented producers,
0:21
performers, writers and builders who helped put it all together.
0:24
I'm your host, silly creature Joe Hennes.
0:27
Today we're talking about Season 2, Episode 2, The twisty
0:31
Tourniethon in which Red goes on a big old race and gets lost.
0:37
Today we're chatting with two very fragly puppeteers.
0:40
First, you've seen him wemble all over the screen as Wembley.
0:43
It's Jordan Lockhart. Hello, Jordan.
0:46
Hello. How are you, Sir?
0:48
I'm great. Thanks for joining us here my.
0:50
Pleasure. Also joining us is another
0:53
puppeteer and Wrangler who can be found all over Back to the
0:56
Rock, including inside Junior Gorg, It's Ben Durocher.
1:00
Hello, Ben. I'm waving.
1:03
You just can't hear it. Hi.
1:05
It's a very noisy wave. That's right.
1:10
Thank you both for being back here on the podcast.
1:12
It's so I'm so excited to talk to you guys about Back to the
1:14
Rock again. So tell me, when did you each
1:19
find out that Back to the Rock was renewed for a second season?
1:26
I feel like it was a. Go ahead, Ben.
1:29
I was going to say, I think we got we got like a mass, a group
1:32
e-mail all the puppeteers from or actually, no, it was like it
1:35
was like a hey, guys, I have something to tell you from
1:39
Johnny being like, hey, I have to talk to you about something.
1:41
Let's all jump on a let's all jump on a zoom at this time.
1:45
And it was kind of obvious what, what the announcement was going
1:48
to be. But I think that was on that
1:49
call was when I forgot the official word.
1:53
So it wasn't like you didn't think that he was going to say
1:55
sorry guys, the show's been cancelled.
1:57
Good luck to you. You had you had a good feeling
2:00
about it. There were already some rumors
2:03
coming out of Calgary. Oh, this has been booked, that's
2:06
been booked. You know, so it our our faith
2:09
was high. That's good.
2:11
I'm glad to hear that. So.
2:13
So it sounds like you were already gone, you already back
2:15
home when you got the news, right?
2:17
Yeah. Cool.
2:19
Yeah, 'cause I mean, I hear obviously people find out at
2:22
different times, and really what I want to find out is at one
2:25
point did everyone know and then feel like they had to keep the
2:28
secret from me? We definitely had to keep it
2:33
quiet, like generally speaking about it, I think until Apple
2:38
officially announced that it was coming back.
2:40
Yeah, of course, but. You know, the the Creature Shop
2:43
had already started working on stuff and actually we might have
2:45
even been in Calgary when they finally announced it, I don't
2:49
remember. Yeah, we were.
2:52
Yeah, it was block one or something like that around the.
2:54
Holidays. So you were already like in the
2:55
middle of filming in secret in Canada, OK.
3:01
It's an awkward thing, it is. So for both of you as
3:07
performers, what was different for you between season one and
3:10
season 2? Like did you change your
3:11
approach to anything? Did it feel more or less
3:14
comfortable for you? What do?
3:18
You think Ben? I yeah, I mean, in a lot of ways
3:24
there was a, there were just less unknowns coming back.
3:26
It was, we kind of had found our groove by the end of the first
3:29
season. You know, particularly Dan and
3:33
I, as junior had gotten to, you know, we got a good amount of
3:36
hours together with, with the suit and with the, you know, the
3:41
set and everything. So I think there was a, there's
3:44
a bit more confidence coming back and sort of just like, all
3:46
right, I, I know what this is going to be and I know it's
3:48
going to be awesome. Yeah, I think for me, the
3:54
biggest thing was recognizing all the places throughout season
3:58
one where I was clearly doubting myself and saying no more.
4:05
You cannot rest on the past. That thing is beautiful.
4:08
It's perfect. It will always be there.
4:09
You got to put yourself into this guy or it's going to look
4:12
really bad. It's not going to come off the
4:14
way you want, dude. So Season 2, I went in there and
4:16
I just, I had so much more fun because I didn't feel so
4:22
beholden to what's behind the glass, so to speak.
4:27
Yeah, and there's, I want to, I want to kind of pull on that
4:30
thread a little bit, so to speak, because it must been so
4:33
hard for you in season one to perform as Wembley.
4:37
Not only not having, I mean, this wasn't your character that
4:40
you created. You don't have the performer
4:43
who's like talking over your shoulder, the original performer
4:45
who's like giving you tips or whatever.
4:47
You're just trying to, like, find that mix between, you know,
4:51
what was and what you're trying to create, you know, to make it
4:54
your own. So for Season 2, tell me a
4:57
little bit more about what you did to continue making Wembley
5:01
your character. Well, I and I, I mentioned this
5:08
not too long ago, I think in that live talk with Johnny is
5:11
this idea of putting my own struggles into him and relating
5:16
to him that way. Certainly I've been a people
5:21
pleaser in my life that that's something I relate to in
5:23
Wembley, you know, desperately wanting to prevent calamity,
5:27
friction between friends, you know, all that kind of stuff.
5:31
But the biggest thing that I brought into it this season was
5:34
my journey with ADHDI saw such an opportunity there to try to
5:41
process as Jordan threw Wembley all within the framework of the
5:46
character that Steve created. And it was not only hugely fun,
5:50
but for me it came back around to the Wembley that I love.
5:53
Like when I look at that as a fan, I see Wembley.
5:57
Perhaps that's bold to say publicly, but I mean, that's
6:00
just, that was my way in. And I only want to continue
6:04
exploring that and seeing what it looks like as his confidence
6:08
grows. Because it's going to be very
6:09
unique from everybody else. It's going to probably read as
6:14
crazy zany manicness. But inside it's like, no, I
6:18
think he's starting to really know where he stands and he just
6:21
doesn't care anymore. You know, that sort of thing.
6:23
So yeah, that's kind of where I'm going, man.
6:27
I I got some plans for him but that's all I get.
6:29
I like that. Well, we definitely we're going
6:31
to talk about those plans maybe maybe when the cameras aren't
6:34
rolling, but Wembley goes through some huge changes in the
6:40
season and we're going to talk so much more about that later on
6:42
in this podcast. But I do we do have to talk a
6:45
little bit about the episode. It's or I'm pokey.
6:48
And like you said, Wembley isn't wembling as much as he is
6:55
confirming who he is. And that is such a move for a
6:59
character that is defined by indecision.
7:03
I don't have a question in there.
7:04
That's just, I'm just kind of like piggybacking on exactly
7:06
what you just said. How?
7:09
Did you, can I just say, can I just say as a fan of, of, well,
7:13
Jordan's, but of the, of Fraggle Rock, like watching the way
7:18
Jordan has taken Wembley to, to these, these new depths and, and
7:23
really developed this beautifully rounded character.
7:27
It's, I mean, it's just a testament to him as a human
7:30
being and as an actor. I'm, I'm just, I'm in awe of
7:33
what what he did with Wimbley this season.
7:36
Thanks, Ben. That's kind of great.
7:40
And Ben, I want to talk a little bit about Junior Gorg because as
7:44
you said, you know, you had to go through the whole season of
7:47
season one to really get comfortable with working with
7:51
Dan Garza on having two people perform 1 character.
7:54
But then you end up with this. I don't know how long the gap
7:57
is, an 8 month gap, I'm guessing at least between the end of
8:01
season one and start of season 2.
8:02
So how how hard was it for you to get back into character?
8:06
Oh, it, it really felt like no time at all had passed.
8:09
And, you know, we, we had the the opportunity to watch the
8:15
first season and, and see how junior played on camera.
8:19
And I think it it, we both came back with so many ideas and
8:22
just, you know, a new way to approach how we, how we made the
8:28
character come to life. It was like just getting to kick
8:31
things up to a new level. And I think the writers and the
8:34
the directors figured out what to do with the Gorgs more like
8:36
we see more of Ma and PA in season 2.
8:40
And so getting to play with, with, you know, Ingrid and, and
8:44
Amy and Frank and Andy, you know, all together was so much
8:48
fun. Getting to figure out all kinds
8:50
of physical bits and yeah, it was it.
8:53
I think across the board the whole season was about kicking
8:55
things up a notch with the puppetry and technically and and
8:59
the Gorks were no exception. I just want to say it's one of
9:01
those things you have to see to believe, and I hope you can get
9:04
out there sometime, Joe, because the alchemy on stage 3 is
9:07
powerful, dude. I've been telling everybody I
9:12
'cause I tried to get get there for Season 2 and I was kind of
9:15
told like, well, you know, it's Apple TV.
9:16
They're really secretive. So maybe not.
9:19
And now this time I'm like, I'm not going to ask permission.
9:21
I will literally be knocking on the stage door.
9:24
I'll show up to Calgary in February.
9:26
I'm coming. Raising your tail off at the
9:28
gate, exactly the sound stage. Do it.
9:33
So, but is there something that you guys do as the gourd
9:37
performers to like either before the season started or before
9:41
each performance to just like get into character and get into
9:44
the groove of of that synchronicity?
9:47
Well, I, I think the another thing we sort of figured out on
9:50
season one that we carried through season 2 was how, how we
9:53
would work the, the day out on a Gorg day where we'd first just
9:58
step through the, the camera blocking with the director, but
10:00
always having the, you know, voice and face puppeteer right
10:05
close by. And it, and it's a collaboration
10:07
about like how the physical scene will actually take place
10:10
on stage. And then, you know, they light
10:12
it and get the cameras in place and we do it again with the
10:15
heads off, with the voice actors just in our ears and, and step
10:19
through it again and again. It's a, it's a conversation.
10:21
Hey, it, it get, get to the steps a little sooner than then
10:24
throw the head back towards the camera before I say the line or
10:28
I'll, I'll say hold, hold up on that line until I can get up
10:30
into the spot and, and pick up the prop or, you know, whatever
10:32
it is. And so it's, it's really is a
10:35
collaboration like all the way through the day.
10:37
And even once we're in our heads, then we can hear the
10:40
voice actors in our in ears. So there's always little notes
10:43
and suggestions and, and yeah, back and forth.
10:46
It's, it must sound insane on the walkie-talkie system, the
10:50
the things that we say back and forth to each other.
10:53
Oh, I'm sure. Yeah.
10:55
All right. So big question here.
10:58
Thinking about the whole season, what do you think was the
11:01
coolest thing that you got to see or do on this entire season
11:04
of Fraggle Rock? I, I think my, my favorite day
11:09
was when I, I got to do the puppetry for the great
11:12
Glitterini in episode 5. And that, that came right after
11:17
we shot the Gorg's scenes from that episode.
11:21
So it was like probably a 10 hour Gorg day.
11:23
And then the Glitterini day was like a 16 hour shooting day and
11:28
shot all of his scenes basically in that one day.
11:31
And it was a marathon and I loved every second of it.
11:34
It was just like, how is this? I'm I'm performing a Raleigh
11:37
Cruson puppet that's being voiced by Adam Lambert, directed
11:41
by Johnny T. And, you know, and, and, and
11:44
such a special episode of of television.
11:47
Just the message and everything. Yeah.
11:48
That that's an easy career highlight.
11:52
Oh, amazing. Yeah.
11:54
I think for me, I'm going to piggyback a little bit on what
11:57
Ben said. The Glitter Globe Day was a
12:00
crazy long day and amazing work was accomplished.
12:04
But for me, the thing that stuck out the most was working so
12:08
closely with Kanye in such a meaningful way.
12:11
Because, and I'll make this quick, but he and I met over a
12:15
decade ago in a small park in Toronto for the first time.
12:19
And it was like this brother that I'd always had.
12:22
It was nuts. It was like, wait, how have we
12:25
just met? And we just instantly grew so
12:28
close. And he was such a an
12:30
encouragement in my life and my career.
12:32
He he, you know, he would give me all the who's, what's and
12:35
where's to avoid and you know, what to do and how to navigate.
12:40
And so he's always been very much a supporter of mine.
12:43
And then from that little tiny park in Toronto to this world
12:48
class sound stage in Calgary, Wembley and Pogey together,
12:52
having this profound moment in their lives and it's we.
12:56
We just kept looking at each other like.
12:57
How How did this? Happen.
13:01
Sharing that with Kanye was very special for me.
13:04
And I think about it a lot. We we certainly talk about it a
13:08
lot. It's just one of those things.
13:10
And and I'd I'd like to think that the emotion that we were
13:14
experiencing behind the scenes is part of what was fueling the
13:17
emotion that comes through on the screen.
13:19
It was a beautiful day, Tough but beautiful.
13:23
I, I was going to say it absolutely comes across on
13:26
screen. There's there's not just a
13:29
connection between the two of you, but you could sense that
13:32
profoundness of what the characters are going through,
13:37
the brilliant script of that episode and the care that
13:41
everyone put into it. That's going to be a really fun
13:44
one for us to really break into and in a couple of weeks here on
13:46
this podcast. I think that's, that's been a
13:49
really special episode for everybody.
13:50
So thank you guys for doing such a great job with that.
13:54
But today we're actually talking about a different episode.
13:58
We're going to talk about the twisty turnython.
14:00
You guys ready to break into this thing?
14:02
Let's do it. Oh, yeah.
14:03
All right. Well, this episode starts with
14:06
Red cleaning her trophy shelf. She's got all these cool props
14:09
all over these interesting trophies.
14:12
I bet you whoever made these props knows like, oh, this is
14:16
the one she got for rock hockey and this is the one she got for,
14:19
you know, whatever, like this one she made for herself because
14:21
she was like get a trophy day. I'd love to find out more about
14:26
the the stories that we're not going to get from all from all
14:29
these great props. Oh yeah, the the art department
14:32
on this show, it constantly outdoes themselves.
14:35
Like the the level of detail in every little prop that they put
14:39
on a shelf and and dress the set with is just, it's so good.
14:44
And the giddiness around it. Yeah, yeah, there's, it's so
14:48
joyful and even like she's got this feather duster that kind of
14:51
looks like a radish. Like all these props are
14:53
amazing. And I would buy any of these,
14:55
not even if they were Fraggle Rock branded.
14:57
Just like a a cool thing to have in my home to make it look
15:01
quirky. I love it.
15:05
Moki shows up with a Glooey Rudy on her tail, which is like this
15:09
little squid looking guy. It's like a tiny little puppet.
15:12
What do you think? It's like 3 or 4 inches tall.
15:15
Can you tell me what what is Glooey Rudy like?
15:19
What? What?
15:20
What you. Mean in the world of Fraggle
15:21
Rock or like the Puppet. Yeah, both, actually both.
15:26
Well, I know, I know the, the puppet was built, I believe by
15:29
Pete in the, in the Creature Shop in Calgary.
15:32
And I think they, they 3D printed a mold.
15:36
And so it's got all this little tiny detail, but like you
15:39
couldn't really achieve that with a, a regular sculpt because
15:43
it's so small. And then it's cast in silicone
15:45
and it just has this little like trigger mouth and, you know, can
15:49
kind of squish just by pulling the, the rod up and down.
15:52
And Frank does such a great job of this weirdo little character
15:55
Frank Mescolyte voiced in. That's great.
15:59
I love it. I love that that anything can
16:01
show up in Fraggle Rock and that you, like you guys built this
16:05
tiny little puppet for this one tiny scene.
16:09
That's insane to me that that was approved and I'm so
16:13
grateful. Keep your keep your eye out for
16:14
Gluey Rudy. He's going to come back.
16:16
Oh, good. OK, All right, all, all you
16:19
gluey Rudy fans out there. There's actually not to not to
16:24
like jump around to another episode, but no go for my
16:26
favorite, favorite moments that happened on set was in the mezzo
16:31
concert scene. They, you know, they had all the
16:34
the bleachers where everyone was sitting and for whatever reason,
16:37
they put Icy Joe beside Gluey Rudy.
16:39
It was like the biggest puppet on set.
16:41
And I was doing Icy Joe for that shot and had her like come down
16:45
into the shot and there's like just them eye to eye is like the
16:48
most insane thing. I love it.
16:54
So yes, he's this little squid guy.
16:56
He insults their cave and then a gust of wind comes and blows
16:59
them away, blows him away and and I assume he's matted into
17:05
the scene as he flies away. Like I don't know how you guys
17:07
made him look like he's floating.
17:09
Dude, were you there? Do you do you remember?
17:13
Probably in the blue cube. Probably did that in the blue
17:16
screen unit. Yeah, that makes sense.
17:19
These gusts of wind, they're all anyone can talk about, Red says.
17:24
The wind blew this around. The wind blew that around.
17:27
Hi, Red. That last one was Pogey saying
17:30
hi to Red. Bogey pops up.
17:31
I love Pogey. I just had to say that I like
17:33
Pogey shows up in an episode. He's great.
17:37
They're great. Excuse me, I have to.
17:39
I have to update the pronouns in my in my noggin here.
17:43
So today is the twisty Turnathon, and Red is convinced
17:47
that she's going to win because she knows the course like the
17:50
back of her Bulubias, even though she shows us that she
17:52
doesn't know which side of the Blubius is the back.
17:55
And Moki is going to try to paint the race while racing,
18:00
which is a very Moki thing to do.
18:02
I like that a lot. We get a big scene of the the
18:05
Great Hall, All the Fraggles are getting ready to race and
18:08
there's all these gusts of wind blowing around, Buber says one
18:12
upside to the windstorm. There's lots of clean up to do
18:14
and I love there's a broom that just goes smack right into his
18:16
hand, which seems like one of those puppetry tricks is
18:19
probably a lot more complicated than it looks.
18:22
Is that accurate do you think? I mean, I, I think someone just
18:28
like drags the broom back out of the frame.
18:31
It's probably actually simpler to do with a puppet than with a
18:34
human actor because, you know, we're, we don't see below the
18:37
frame. So it's, I wouldn't be, I
18:40
wouldn't be worried if I saw that on, on the script and I was
18:44
doing the puppet. But I I don't actually remember
18:45
how we did that. That is one of the things you
18:48
that's one of the things you eye.
18:50
You don't use a monitor for that.
18:51
You just eye it otherwise. You just look straight up.
18:54
Yeah, yeah, there's no use making things.
18:55
It feels like cheating, doesn't it?
18:57
Does it feel like cheating when you don't use a monitor?
19:00
Well, that's what we're told in those workshops, but it's very
19:03
helpful sometimes. I'm sure sometimes you got to
19:05
look live. That's what I was.
19:07
Yeah. Look at live.
19:10
So Gobo is not going to race this year.
19:12
He's got to figure out what's going on with the Gorgs.
19:15
Boober reminds him that the rules state if he's not racing,
19:18
he has to nominate someone to take his place.
19:20
So he says, OK, Boober, you could do it.
19:23
And Boober, I love he's, he's like, Boober, your love of the
19:26
rules got you again. Poor Boober.
19:31
That's going to come back to haunt him in a few minutes.
19:33
But we got our first glimpse of Wembley.
19:36
That's you, Jordan. You're Wembley.
19:37
Did you know that? Well, thank you for the
19:40
revelation, dude. He gets to coin the the phrase
19:46
Gusty's was that a proud moment for you?
19:49
That you you're basically like, it's like, it's like saying the
19:51
name of a movie in the movie, like you get to say the line
19:55
that will that will carry through the rest of the season.
19:58
I never really thought of it like that.
20:01
Thanks, Joe. I'm going to award that over
20:03
everybody for a year. Yeah, I'm the guy who coined the
20:07
phrase gusty. It wouldn't be Gusty's without
20:08
me, cricket. And Wembley's the guy who's good
20:11
at naming stuff, right? So dirt.
20:18
The the gussies have been blowing him around.
20:20
He's having a great time. They've been showing him all
20:22
sorts of interesting things like this tickle flower, and he's got
20:25
this like flower on a spring and they're having a good time
20:29
tickling each other. So tell me what's actually
20:31
happening below the frame here with you and the tickle flower.
20:35
So if I remember this accurately, Ingrid's with me
20:38
under the rock, Danny's to the to the left doing my left arm,
20:43
Kanye is down in front doing my right arm and the plant tendrils
20:52
meaning Ingrid's doing, I think like the main performance of the
20:54
plant from underneath with me. Did I make that real confusing?
20:58
And, and it's it's what it was one of those Jim and Frank
21:01
moments where I was like, I really just want you all to just
21:04
do your own thing. And this should just be wild and
21:07
squid like and crazy tendrils and arms everywhere.
21:10
And yeah, it worked. Yeah, it's great.
21:13
Great. Also, like I'm I, I am tickled
21:15
by the idea that it takes four people to do this, you know?
21:20
Yeah, so Moki is getting ready to paint and run.
21:24
She is Again, I'm pointing out all the ink spots in this whole
21:28
season, because you have to. She's being followed by an ink
21:32
spot who's carrying her paint palette, which is adorable.
21:37
And if I were an artist, I don't think I would be able to paint
21:41
if my palette wasn't being held by an ink spot.
21:45
Yeah, I, I love on on this season because the Ink Spots
21:48
kind of became a favorite when they were setting up scenes and
21:52
sequences. They weren't necessarily always
21:53
in the script. But I think on Season 2, there's
21:56
a lot more stage direction that says, you know, an ink spot is
22:00
following her with a pallet, an ink spot is handing out drinks.
22:03
I think the the writers sort of honed in on the Ink Spots being
22:05
this like utilitarian cave creature that the Fraggles use.
22:10
Oh, I love that. Yeah, that's such a fan thing to
22:13
do. That's exactly what I would do
22:14
if I was writing Fraggle Rock. It's just morning spots.
22:16
Just throw them in everywhere. Yeah, there's.
22:19
So there's this older looking Fraggle.
22:22
I'm saying older because he's wearing like bifocals and a bow
22:25
tie and a sweater vest and like kind of looks like he's got trim
22:28
around his, his hair. That's.
22:30
Rupert. Rupert OK, That's what I wanted
22:32
to ask you is who is this guy? He's he's in season one, he's
22:36
kind of like the storyteller's assistant.
22:39
Like in when she's telling the story of Icy Joe, he maybe he
22:43
plays a trumpet. Is that right?
22:44
That's right. I just then I just forgot him
22:46
from season one. I thought he was a new guy and.
22:47
She's like Rupert, you'll get it, Like he's not very good at.
22:51
Thank. You, my dear.
22:53
Yeah. And that's, that's Andy Hayward.
22:55
And Andy was like loved Rupert and would ask the creature shop
22:59
to put Rupert back together out of whichever, you know, gaggle
23:03
background Fraggle he came from. And then Rupert just sort of
23:06
ended up on the puppet rack all the time.
23:08
So Andy's always trying to work him into a shot.
23:12
Oh, that's nice. Oh, I'm glad to hear that there
23:15
are so many Fraggles and you guys have been really good about
23:18
by you guys, I mean all the puppets here.
23:19
It's been good about sharing stuff on social media, like
23:22
behind the scenes stuff this year.
23:23
And we're learning a lot more about some of these background
23:26
characters that they have names and personalities.
23:28
So I want to try to call these out as we see them so that we
23:31
can be like, OK, that's Rupert. And like he's he's battle
23:35
blowing the trumpet and he wears bifocals.
23:37
Bifocals. OK, got it.
23:38
Moving on. Yeah, get get Rupert of Muppet
23:41
Wiki. Page.
23:42
I'm sure he does. I'm sure he has one.
23:46
So I don't know where Barry Blueberry pops up and he's here
23:50
to offer some color commentary. But then a second Fraggle pops
23:55
up right next to him and says actually Barry will both be
23:58
doing color commentary and we're meeting Sherry Contrary for the
24:03
very first time. Yes, yes.
24:09
So the, the vitriol between the two of them in this episode, and
24:15
I know like later on when we see them, they, they seem to get
24:17
along much better, but the like they're just grinning through
24:20
their teeth at how much they hate each other and I love it.
24:26
It is some highlights, man. It's good stuff.
24:31
Yeah. Now I want I'll be asking Amy
24:33
about this later on on the podcast, but do you guys have
24:36
any Like I assume this came up because Amy is the Co puppet
24:42
captain and she's also just very funny and very talented.
24:45
And it's like, OK, let's let's give Johnny like someone to play
24:48
against here. Or I mean, do you know anything
24:52
else about like her background here?
24:56
Am I just guessing? I don't I doubt it had anything
25:00
to do with Amy being the Co puppet captain at which she was
25:04
so awesome. Love Amy Garcia and she's I
25:07
mean, she's just a genius comedian and such a good singer.
25:12
So it just was just the perfect marriage of writing and
25:16
performer here. She only did a couple takes of
25:19
that that song. It was a little different every
25:22
time and we were all just in stitches.
25:25
It was just so funny. Yeah, I was only going to say
25:28
that Johnny and Amy haven't really had a chance to play off
25:31
each other like that since the show started up again.
25:34
And I feel like this was the right time.
25:37
This was definitely the right couple of characters for that to
25:40
happen. Yeah.
25:41
And my favorite, my favorite line is what on earth would I do
25:44
without you, Cher, as he exits frame.
25:47
That's the greatest. And that song that she sings,
25:51
that Fraggle anthem, which so I will tell you because we only
25:55
really hear like half of what she's singing.
25:57
And it's so like drawn out that I was like, is this an old
26:01
Fraggle song that she's like deliberately stepping all over?
26:04
So I'm actually really happy to hear that she's improvising the
26:06
whole thing. That's.
26:09
Good stuff. We did a number of those takes,
26:10
didn't we? Yeah, but the each one was was
26:14
like better than the next. It was so.
26:17
Unbelievable. Yeah, it was so funny.
26:20
Put it on the soundtrack. Apple, Apple TV Plus.
26:23
Yeah, yeah. Where's the Fraggle here?
26:26
They should. They should record a straight
26:27
version of it like the the official album.
26:30
Recording of the Fraggle anthem? No, I think that they should
26:33
release every improvised version that she she recorded on the
26:38
day. That's what I want to hear, with
26:41
the laughter in the background of people who can't contain
26:43
themselves. Oh, that's so good.
26:48
So the the runners for the race, they're queued to start by the
26:52
whistle bug. Another new puppet here.
26:55
It's a bug that looks like a giant whistle.
26:57
And he doesn't whistle. He just goes whistle.
27:01
That's good stuff. Was that Dan?
27:02
Who was that? That was Dan.
27:04
Yeah. Good stuff, Dan.
27:07
I love it. I hope we get to see the whistle
27:09
bug again sometime. Maybe the whistle bug should get
27:11
his own episode, maybe not. Or maybe you should.
27:15
You guys were so enthusiastic about that idea.
27:19
Wow. Just.
27:20
Calm down. No, he loves the whistle bug.
27:22
He's a bit one note. He's a one note character.
27:28
Get out. Dad So Buber immediately falls
27:34
and he scrapes his shoulder, but he's ecstatic because now he can
27:37
sit the whole race out. He walks away feigning injury,
27:41
but Pogey is is on the sideline frantically waving their pom pom
27:45
cheering Buberon. What a sport.
27:48
Do you do you remember Jordan? When when we shot that button
27:51
with Pogey cheering, the director just just did not call
27:56
cut and Kanye went for so long as Pogey just never losing any
28:01
enthusiasm. It was so funny.
28:03
It was. Just everybody was howling and
28:06
dying, sweating. It was just one of those moments
28:09
that, you know, it's, I wish I could have lived in it.
28:13
I wish there was an extra 5 minutes in the episode that they
28:16
could have just included that whole run of of Pogie cheering.
28:20
Just the end credits. Just the credits flashing over.
28:23
Yeah, come over. Yeah.
28:24
You found happy. You got happy.
28:26
Nobody feels. Great.
28:28
Oh well. Yeah, Yep.
28:30
Release Apple TV. Are you listening?
28:33
Like, give us some bonus features here.
28:35
All right, We had our first song in the episode it is I Knew I
28:39
Was Good, which was from the old original.
28:42
Fraggle Rock comes from the episode A Friend in Need.
28:46
Here it's sung by Red, but in the original it was sung by
28:48
Gobo. Did you know it also appeared in
28:52
an episode of the Animal Show? What have you seen the Animal
28:56
show? It's an episode of that of.
28:58
Course. Yeah.
29:00
Which animal? Oh, I, you know, I looked up.
29:03
It was, I want to say it was a warthog.
29:05
I don't, I don't remember. That's a good question.
29:08
Well, everyone, I think, Karen. Krell worked on that.
29:10
I wonder if she was featured on that episode.
29:13
Oh, that's a good question. We'll have to ask her when she
29:16
comes back. Comes back to the the podcast.
29:19
So as Red is like singing and she's passing all these fraggles
29:23
that are that are cheering on the racers and stuff like that.
29:25
But we also see some some other characters, including a Gorg
29:30
chicken, which is such a fascinating puppet.
29:34
It's this like big ugly chicken with like this huge beak, this
29:39
like jaw of a beak. It's gorgeous, gorgeous.
29:44
Gorgeous. And and that OK, I remember
29:47
Karen Prell talking about that puppet and how she couldn't
29:50
remember them using it on the original series.
29:54
And I don't think I remembered like looking around a little on
29:58
the Muppet wiki to see if I can figure it out, but I I couldn't
30:01
figure out where it had actually been used.
30:03
But there's, there's a Michael Frith illustration or, or
30:06
design, I guess. So it was designed and made,
30:09
but, and Karen said, I can't imagine us making something and
30:12
not using it. But I if there's a there's a
30:15
Muppet sleuth out there that can find out.
30:18
Yeah, my, my, my memory here when we saw a photo of it in one
30:22
of those behind the scenes pictures was people came up with
30:25
the same conclusion. That's like, you know, it wasn't
30:28
used. But what a gorgeous build.
30:32
I mean, my guess is is that like, because we never really
30:34
saw any other creatures in the Gorg's garden, it didn't make
30:36
any sense to have a Gorg creature just like wandering
30:40
around Fraggle Rock. But now who cares?
30:43
It just fills in the background. It's fun it.
30:45
Wandered off from the Gorg's garden, ended up in Fraggle
30:48
Rock, and that's where it lives now.
30:50
Yeah. And of course, he was accepted
30:52
immediately. There you go.
30:54
Yeah, he was probably going to be like eating in the Gorg's
30:58
garden. So it's good that he found the
31:01
crackle hole. I also love we see large Marvin
31:05
in the race and he's wearing this incredible tracksuit.
31:09
It's like shiny. He's got the stripes down the
31:11
side. It's great.
31:13
And the ink spots, once again, they're they're handing out cups
31:16
of water like you would in a race, and Marvin just grabs a
31:19
whole ink spot and downs the water that the ink spot is is
31:23
holding. Good stuff.
31:25
I love it. The wind, the Gusty's, they blew
31:31
a bunch of rocks into the way of the course and Red decides she's
31:34
going to stay on course and climb over the rocks and who's
31:38
on top? It's our buddy Wembley.
31:41
The Gusty's blew him up there and now they're tied, they're
31:45
neck and neck, says Sherry Contrary for the race.
31:50
I don't know. Is there anything, what are
31:51
these rocks made of that you're on top of?
31:53
Are they actually like hard material or are they more like
31:56
soft carved foam? Yeah, it's just coated Styrofoam
32:00
carved right. Yeah, or like like expanding
32:05
insulation. I think they they had molds that
32:08
they could put expanding foam, but it it's makes it super
32:11
modular. They can really like stack them
32:13
up. They're pretty light and they
32:15
can hold them together with like toothpicks those are, or like
32:18
BBQ skewers. It kind of looked like it's a
32:21
lot of the set was like held together that way.
32:26
That sounds dangerous. It's great.
32:27
It's great to pin your lines on too as well.
32:30
Yeah, if. You knew your script close by.
32:35
We got a little check in with the Doozers here.
32:38
They they don't have much of A plot in this episode, but
32:40
they're they're working on getting the their turbines
32:43
moving, but they want to get the Gusty's to to help them out.
32:47
But they need to know where the Gusty's are coming from.
32:50
It doesn't really matter for today, but there's a great
32:53
runner here that will take us through later on that the
32:56
architect Doozer says that he gave himself a bad haircut and
33:01
he's ashamed to show it to everybody, which is such a like,
33:05
That's got to be a Johnny T improv, right?
33:10
I think that that was scripted, but I'm I'm sure the architect's
33:15
character was had to be inspired by Johnny between takes as the
33:19
architect because he would do this sort of I will.
33:22
I won't do it justice when you have him on.
33:24
You have to get him to just do a little bit of architect banter.
33:27
But he's like sort of telling Cotterpin about his his career
33:30
in show business. I would say is, is the gist of
33:34
the bit, But it's always like he he worked with someone, but it's
33:37
like AB name or AC name. It's like or, or like, you know,
33:42
I, you know, I was a day player on happy days, like that kind of
33:45
thing, right? It's terrible, but like, you
33:48
know, talking about being an understudy at the summer stock
33:51
theater, you know, that kind of like old show business talk.
33:54
It's so funny. And and Donovan and Cotter
33:56
Pinners. I was like, that's right, Sir.
33:58
Sure thing, Sir. What a resume, Sir.
34:01
You know, it's great. I love it.
34:05
Were either of you Doozers in this episode?
34:09
Do you recall? I think I was doing Andy's hands
34:13
at. Why can't I think of his name?
34:17
Wrench. All right, Wrench.
34:20
That's his name. Oh my God.
34:21
There's a wrench. Wrench, wrench.
34:23
There's turbo and wrench. Yeah, yeah.
34:25
Wrench. Yeah, that's something, yeah.
34:27
Cuz, cuz the for the most part, the principal doozers would
34:30
would be the RC, you know, rigs, they would sit off camera and
34:35
then we would be under the stage doing the the hands.
34:38
I'm pretty sure I'm doing, yeah, Andy's hands on that one.
34:41
Cool. I have a hard time remembering
34:44
which ones I did hands on. You don't actually have to.
34:47
Remember, these things are important to certain people.
34:51
Right. But not every people.
34:55
Is what well and the Doozer the Doozer scenes were often shot by
34:58
like a a second unit like they'd have it on another sound stage.
35:01
They'd have the Doozer setups because they took so long to
35:04
really get all together, you know, adding in all the layers
35:06
of doozers and getting it all working.
35:08
So often times they'd spend all day setting it up and then
35:11
they'd rush puppeteers in from the other stage during, you
35:15
know, a moment of, of pause over there and we'd do it real quick
35:18
and then back on the other stage before we had time to really
35:21
like process what it was, you know.
35:23
So, so are there times where like you'll just have a minute
35:26
of downtime and someone will go, oh great, I need you to come and
35:29
be a background user real quick? Like you weren't prepared to do
35:31
that, but you're just going to do it anyway.
35:33
For sure. Yeah, wow, what a job.
35:37
We have a check in at the Gorg's garden.
35:39
Junior is watering Junior, Junior who is like almost as
35:43
tall as Junior like this is. They grow up, they feel so fast,
35:47
they. Sure.
35:48
Do I feel like this is going to be like the multi season arc of
35:52
junior junior? Like becoming, I don't know,
35:56
like a big oak tree by the end? Am I spoiling things?
36:00
Maybe I should, I hadn't thought of that.
36:01
I don't know. You may have to sign a form at
36:03
some point. Oh jeez, or they'll have to pay
36:06
me for my brilliant idea that I came up with that a tree grows.
36:10
A tree grows in the Gorg's garden.
36:14
Gobo surprises Junior, who sprays Gobo with his watering
36:17
can, slips and falls. You get this whole great moment
36:20
here, Ben, of some physical comedy.
36:23
That was actually OK I I have to say that was a stunt person that
36:26
on the wide shower junior like really falls on his butt.
36:29
I I begged him, pleaded. I I asked so many times to do it
36:33
myself. But our producer, Chris Plord,
36:37
decided to put my safety as a priority, which I guess I
36:41
understand. But that stunt double did that a
36:44
bunch of times and like, no mad, no pad, nothing.
36:48
That was wow. I have so much respect for stunt
36:51
people. I've never really watched this.
36:53
And I was so scared. I was so nervous to sit here
36:55
watching it happen. But it was so worth it.
36:58
It turned out so well. It's.
36:59
It's great. It's a great moment.
37:00
Yeah. I mean, good for you for not
37:02
taking credit, but I really thought it was you.
37:05
Thanks. One thing that I never noticed
37:08
before is that Junior has these like little cleats at the bottom
37:13
of his of like just the front of his shoes, like on the on the
37:17
bottom near the front of his shoes.
37:19
Yeah, Yeah. Like they kind of curl up a
37:21
little bit. Is there a either a practical
37:26
purpose to it or a hindrance to your performance?
37:30
Having those little little bumps on his feet?
37:32
OK, here's what I think. I no, no hindrance to my
37:34
performance. What I believe is I've worked on
37:39
mascot, you know, walk around costume builds at Henston and
37:43
they've talked about always putting like a little bit of an
37:47
curve up at the toe because it makes it safer when you're
37:50
walking around. Like you're less likely to catch
37:52
on something because the feet are so big that you're you're
37:55
human feet are, you know, pretty set pretty far back from the
37:58
toes. So it's always just like a a
38:01
practical thing for the safety of the performer.
38:04
And then I think the cleats are on there to give it a little
38:06
more visual interest than just like a curved up, you know, toe.
38:09
I don't know that for sure, but that's my guess that that, you
38:12
know, you could kind of see the the curve of the shoe.
38:14
So those kind of, you know, make it less severe.
38:17
It's a little more interesting visually.
38:18
Yeah, no, that's it. It is interesting.
38:21
I was interested enough to talk about it on a podcast.
38:25
And that's a holdover. The original Junior had that
38:27
same thing. Oh, cool.
38:28
OK. I'll have to look for that when
38:30
I watch the old show. Yeah, Paw Gorg shows up and
38:35
Junior, like, balls gobo up, tiny little gobo up and throws
38:38
them across the garden. So I was going to go back in
38:43
and, like, pause and see exactly how you guys did this, but I
38:47
would rather hear you talk about it.
38:48
What are you actually doing here?
38:52
Like, do you have anything in your hands?
38:54
Yeah. There was they made a throw bow.
38:57
Yeah. And I think they actually bought
39:00
a stuffed animal from this like the 80s on eBay and then sort of
39:05
tricked it out to look a little more like the puppet because
39:07
there is a mini scale gobo like rod puppet, but it's you can't
39:12
really take the controller off of it to throw it and you
39:15
wouldn't want to damage it. So they had this like sort of
39:19
stunt double gobo and and then they they cut it together really
39:24
nicely with the full size puppet being thrown into a pile of
39:27
leaves, but the leaves are slightly bigger scale.
39:29
So it all, yeah, it's so the the art direction on the show is
39:33
just so incredible. Like the the the set piece where
39:36
Gobo lands in the pile of leaves was built that bridge, all of
39:40
that just for that one moment. And then the giant pile of
39:42
leaves and and watching Johnny throw the, you know, there's a
39:46
stunt full size gobo, you know, throw puppet that he would use,
39:52
but then it's cut together just nicely and and and you don't
39:56
stay on anything for too long and it looks seamless.
39:58
So that was a Fisher Price Gobo? Is that what you're telling me?
40:03
I think so. Yeah, amazing.
40:04
I. Love that I I heard this as well
40:08
about the Fisher Price gobo. And so that means anyone who's
40:11
listening to this, if you also own the Fisher Price Gobo, then
40:15
you're like 1° removed from an actual Fraggle rock crop, right?
40:23
Is that how it works? You own Henson history?
40:28
That's the. Prices are about to skyrocket.
40:30
That's right. Woo.
40:33
So I have one other question about Junior.
40:35
As long as we're I'm like watching the scene in like
40:37
Junior, this is I think when he's sitting and paws behind him
40:41
and his eyes are moving back and forth and I had forgotten that
40:43
Junior has the mech where his eyes go back and forth.
40:46
So correct me if I'm wrong. The camera is still for for what
40:50
you're seeing is still in Junior's eye, right For Gorg.
40:54
Vision no. So no.
40:55
Yes the the gorg vision has changed now the I think the
41:00
camera in the pupil is too visible on like 4K or whatever.
41:05
80. K or whatever we shoot it in so
41:09
and they and they actually tried to hide the spy Cam in different
41:11
places on the head, but we ended up just using like a a monitor
41:15
from the camera. I just see the camera feed in my
41:19
internal monitor more like how big bird I guess is performed
41:23
and I I have a little bit of vision out of the mouth, but
41:26
there's no no more Gorg vision. I think pop mom and pop still
41:30
have the capabilities. I think Andy tended to use Gorg
41:33
Vision. I can't remember of Ingrid.
41:36
I think they might have switched back and forth.
41:37
They have the option but I I just used the regular camera.
41:42
So that negates my question, but Can you imagine like how
41:45
complicated it would be if gorge vision shifted back and forth
41:49
with the eyes? Right, right.
41:50
Yeah, that. Wouldn't that would be so
41:51
disorienting? Yeah, for.
41:53
Sure. Yeah, that wouldn't work.
41:57
So red is still in the race. The gussies have blown a bunch
42:01
of ouchy cones onto the root. Actually, Joe, they're
42:05
pronounced Uchi cones. Thank you, Sherry, very.
42:11
Good. Very good.
42:12
And they're like pine cones that look like they're spray painted
42:15
red and blue. A cheap prop, but effective.
42:18
Yeah. And Wembley found a bunch of
42:22
bouncy mushrooms, so red, like, runs across, like they're hot
42:26
coals. And Wembley just kind of
42:28
bounces. So what's, what's, what's
42:30
happening here with you and Wembley?
42:31
Jordan, are you, are you on a green screen?
42:34
Do you have, how many puppeteers do you have?
42:35
Like how are you doing this bouncing effect?
42:38
Yeah, we did that in front of a screen and it was again, me,
42:41
Kanye and Ingrid. Kanye on, I think right hand,
42:45
Ingrid on feet and me on left hand and main performance.
42:49
And we're literally just walking along together just like beat,
42:53
beat, beat. And of course, each time we had
42:56
a slightly different movement that we wanted to do as he
42:58
gains, you know, inertia or whatever.
43:01
And yeah, that was really fun. It was.
43:04
I was the closest to being a kid on that particular day.
43:07
I think, you know, I could do that all day.
43:12
Yeah, it's like a like Mario jumps like 123.
43:17
The third one is the Yeah, exactly.
43:21
I love it. Boober is on the sidelines and
43:23
he's cheering Wembley on. This is my favorite part of the
43:25
episode, by the way, There's this other fraggle.
43:28
He asked Boober, oh, didn't you hurt your shoulder?
43:30
You're moving your arms around. And Boober says, oh, my doctor
43:34
told me to do that. He's, he told me he'd be good
43:36
for it. And he says, well, who's your
43:38
doctor? And the camera pans to Boober on
43:41
the other side of him dressed as a doctor, saying, excuse me,
43:44
please don't pester my patient. He's trying to heal.
43:47
And the camera pans back to Boober and then back to the
43:51
doctor, and the doctor is gone at this point.
43:54
And I. Love those jokes so much.
43:56
Wow so I mean I don't want to ask like in Canon what's
44:00
happening because I don't think we're supposed to know, but in
44:04
camera are there 2 Boober puppets?
44:09
Yeah, Frank was doing the first Boober, and then Andy, I think
44:12
did Boober too. And of course, Dave dubs all the
44:16
voices in post because there's multiple Boober Puppets, so one
44:20
was just dressed as a doctor and yeah, pop in, pop out.
44:25
Yeah. I think that was the first line
44:27
I ever got to speak on Fraggle Rock.
44:29
That's my vocal debut. Wait, what's you're, you're the
44:35
the, the confused green Fraggle. Yeah.
44:38
Well, that is you. OK, Good.
44:40
Yeah, yeah. Do you wanna?
44:41
Do you wanna give him a name right now in case he doesn't
44:44
have an official name? No, I can't.
44:46
I can't. You got to do it.
44:47
It's not. Just make up a name.
44:49
We're going to we're. Going to make a.
44:50
Cannon right now, Ben Fraggle. Ben Fraggle, it's done.
44:55
We've named it after you and he's and his whole personality
44:59
is based around asking who people's doctors are.
45:03
That's right. And yeah, I think right around
45:05
that time too, was like Christmas and we did a we had a
45:09
cast screening of Emma Daughters jug Band Christmas like a local
45:13
theater that we rented out and Dave goals sent in a greeting
45:20
for everyone that played before Emmett Otter.
45:22
And then Karen Prelden introduced Love A Christmas
45:25
Carol, which was the feature that night.
45:27
And Jordan, I believe, organized all of it for us.
45:29
It was like such a core memory and such a beautiful bonding
45:33
experience for the crew and seeing and everyone got to bring
45:36
their families and it was really special.
45:38
But I think at the time, the the voice listening to it back, I'm
45:43
like, oh, I'm just doing one pill of porcupine because we'd
45:46
watched Emmett Otter. So it's my OH.
45:48
My God, Dave. Goals.
45:52
Nice. To be fair, Dave Gulls is also
45:55
doing an impression of Wendell Porcupine when he does
45:57
Beauregard, so you're not the only one.
46:00
There you go. Right.
46:02
Do you have mashed potatoes? Yeah.
46:06
Yeah, yeah, That's a perfect movie, by the way.
46:08
A perfect special. I'm an Otter.
46:11
We should talk about that. The best ever.
46:12
Have you ever read the book? I I have it.
46:15
It's on the shelf right behind me.
46:16
Yeah. So delightful, I always picked
46:19
it up a year ago. Like it's surprising that it's
46:22
such a faithful adaptation. I genuinely didn't realize.
46:25
Like, they're like, they they named the songs that were not
46:28
written, which is fascinating to me.
46:32
Yeah. Yeah.
46:33
That's a good book that the Hobbins, Russell and Lily Hobin.
46:38
So at this point in the episode, we have a check in with Doc and
46:41
Sprocket. Again, we don't need to get too
46:42
much into it because it's just a little part of the episode.
46:44
But Doc has a new schedule and she has to work at strange
46:49
hours, so she leaves Sprocket alone with with a webcam.
46:53
But he makes friends with a squirrel outside his window.
46:58
Who is Do you know who's performing the squirrel?
47:00
Frank, Ingrid, And maybe that's it.
47:07
It took two people to do that squirrel, that little hand
47:09
puppet. May have been A2 Fer Yeah yeah,
47:12
I love that puppet. It's so cute.
47:15
Yeah, it doesn't really look like a like a like a Muppet
47:18
puppet, but it does look like very cute, like squirrely
47:22
squirrel. I've got some good BTS of that
47:25
puppet. You just reminded me.
47:27
Yeah, while they were rehearsing and figuring out the movements
47:30
and everything, I would just put my face in the window and just
47:33
stare and it would just be like, it was freaking awesome, man.
47:39
One of the coolest puppets on on season 2, but Fluffanella is
47:43
another, but we'll save that. Yeah, No, We're excited to talk
47:47
about Fluffanella. I We got Fluffanella stories
47:49
that need to be shared here. Back at the race.
47:53
Red is at a rope bridge that will take her to the finish
47:56
line, but the bridge is unstable.
47:58
It's like the bridge from Indiana Jones in the Temple of
48:01
Doom. Temple of Doom.
48:02
Yes. Yeah, I.
48:03
Made the same jokes. Kali Ma.
48:11
That's funny. The the Bridge is unstable, it
48:15
sways, it collapses and red falls, but Wembley catches her
48:22
tail with his tail that there's so much happening in these like
48:25
5 seconds. Jordan, can you explain to me a
48:28
little bit about what you guys are doing behind the scenes?
48:31
Yeah, I need to try to remember. So, man, there were a lot of
48:37
people on that. Ben, were you there?
48:39
I don't think so. I I think I was on another
48:42
stage. I can't remember though.
48:45
It was all in pieces, man. It was like, obviously there was
48:48
the reaction stuff and then and then we do one of those things
48:52
where Webley quickly whips around.
48:54
That's our cut. And then we had the two
48:55
armatured dolls basically linked together and there was there was
49:02
some kind of a rig there where they were pulling on, they were
49:06
pulling on the two puppets. And then it was like a slingshot
49:08
effect or like an elastic band effect where it was like.
49:12
And that was really cool watching them plummet like that.
49:15
Yeah. But yeah.
49:17
And then it was all, you know, And then they cut to the the
49:20
other cavern and of course, we get the big hard landing.
49:26
But it was it was actually pretty straightforward once
49:29
everyone knew what they were doing.
49:31
But it was most, I think part of the reason why it looks so good
49:35
is that we actually just did it armatured.
49:37
I feel like if we had done that all in front of blue screen and
49:39
stuff, I just don't know, it would have looked as good.
49:43
I really think those quick cuts really made it between the
49:46
reaction stuff and the landing. It's just beautiful.
49:50
This is something that I very much appreciate about all of
49:54
Back to the Rock, is that because you are mixing different
49:59
types of puppetry and different types of technology so much,
50:02
there's not an over reliance on the newest, hottest, coolest
50:07
tech. And we do get a little bit of
50:10
things like Throbo, like we, we do just eat a puppet sometimes
50:14
because that will look best. And this is something that I've,
50:18
you know, I've complained a little bit about with the Disney
50:20
Muppets where like they've gotten to a point where they
50:23
want to look so good and things like they've got green screen
50:26
and they're matting things out and they're, they're CGI and
50:28
things to assist in this and that.
50:30
And it's like back in the day, they would have stapled a puppet
50:34
to a, to a string and they would have just yanked it around and
50:37
made it look like it's flying around like a rag doll.
50:40
And that would have been great. So I like that there's that
50:44
subtle mix here, that everything kind of looks real, but also
50:48
looks fun because you are just eating puppets sometimes.
50:53
Yeah. No, I think it's great.
50:55
I think what I love about this series is that we are using
50:58
digital effects the way they were always meant to be, which
51:01
is just a tool, period, A tool on your belt.
51:06
And yeah, it's such a thrill watching it now and just
51:10
thinking like, man, was I even there?
51:12
It's like that's. Nuts.
51:14
You know, but but that's how it's supposed to be.
51:15
It's mostly practical. And we use the tools to soften
51:19
the edges that need to be softened.
51:20
And they do it so gracefully on this show, even more this
51:22
season, I think. Yeah, Yeah.
51:25
We'll find out what happens once they plummet in a second, but
51:28
first we have to check back in with the Gorgs.
51:31
Junior is explaining to Gobo that AH doesn't want to be
51:34
friends with the Fraggles. So Gobo pulls out a postcard and
51:38
we get our uncle travelling mat moment.
51:41
He's at an amusement park and he's just cheating at all of the
51:45
amusement park rides and he wins one of those like clappy hand
51:50
things. Rather he steals it from a
51:51
child. Those clappy hand like a wand
51:54
that you shake in a claps. He really does.
51:56
Just like he cheats and then he steals from a child and then he
51:58
gets arrested. That's what happens in this
52:01
postcard. He's Apos.
52:04
Wow. And he has no clue.
52:08
No clue. It also we see as he's being
52:12
kind of toted away by security. The the where it says security
52:16
on on their back of their their uniforms.
52:19
It's in Spanish, which tells me this was filmed or at least
52:23
takes place somewhere maybe outside the United States.
52:25
Do you have any clue where that may have been?
52:28
I I believe they did some of the map postcards in Mexico.
52:32
I think they went, but I don't know if it was just Mexico, so
52:36
it could have been elsewhere too, but I know there's at least
52:39
one that they shot there, so I they might have done a few of
52:41
them. I I didn't clock that sure.
52:42
Wow. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting.
52:44
I mean, there's definitely some international stuff happening
52:46
with Matt this season. We're going to kind of track his
52:48
his movement, see how far he travelled and raise some
52:51
questions about how he travelled.
52:54
But yeah, but interesting like this is, you know, that it's
52:57
it's rare for like an actual confirmation.
53:01
You know, there's things like I think from the old show where
53:03
it's like, oh, well, it seems like he's, you know, in
53:05
Australia, but that could also just be an Australian person in,
53:08
in, in LA, who knows? But yeah, here, yeah, seems like
53:13
he's he made it to Mexico, somehow made it over the border
53:16
without a passport. But there's also some
53:18
interesting prop stuff happening here.
53:19
We were talking about the props earlier with the leaves where
53:22
Gobo hands Junior the postcard and he reaches out a normal
53:26
sized postcard and Junior grabs a tiny postcard, identical
53:30
postcard, and then the same thing with the Clapper hands.
53:33
He gives him the Clapper hands and he's got the tiny little
53:35
Clapper hands. The props team on back to the
53:39
Rock. They're good, they're so good.
53:41
And again, the using the mixing of different puppet setups to to
53:47
cut together to create the bigger effect that we did it on
53:50
season one too, or where Gobo and Junior sort of shake hands
53:54
with the, you know, his giant MIT and Gobo's tiny little hand.
53:57
And then again here, you see, just like for one shot, they use
54:00
the mini Gobo puppet with a tiny postcard when you see Junior's
54:03
full hand. And then there's like, yeah, the
54:05
miniature version of the clappy hands, which didn't clap quite
54:08
as as well because they're just so small, but it's true.
54:13
Yeah. Just great.
54:14
And and I, I loved how we we did that scene with Junior and Gobo
54:18
because we we basically did it in real time.
54:20
Like Johnny was in the blue cube on the same sound stage as the
54:23
gourd castle. And I in my monitor, I could see
54:26
where Gobo would be in the shot. So I that's cool.
54:29
I really could could react to how Johnny was puppeteering his
54:33
character even though we were miles apart it felt like.
54:38
I love that. That's great.
54:41
And again, like we're talking about like this technology,
54:43
That's how the technology should be used.
54:45
It's it's subtle. It's useful for your
54:47
performance. The fact that you guys can do
54:49
that live is, is I don't know that that seems like a gift that
54:53
you can do that. Yeah.
54:57
So, yeah. So Red and Wembley fell down
54:58
this pit. You would think like I think any
55:02
other show, because they caught each other, they would lift up
55:05
and then find a way around. But they just fall and they're
55:08
fine. Sure, it could have been
55:11
anything down there. Wembley hears a whistling sound
55:15
behind them. He's like, let's follow that.
55:17
That seems like the way. And Red's like, no, no, no, I
55:19
don't want to go backward. And Wembley explains to her he
55:23
doesn't just fly with the wind. He is looking at the way things
55:26
are, not the way they used to be.
55:29
And bingo, I think that's our, our moral, the story here.
55:33
Things are changing and we have to be flexible.
55:37
Do you think that this is also a metaphor for Back to the Rock as
55:41
a whole? For anyone who might be for any
55:44
reason unfavorably comparing this to the old series to say
55:47
like things are changing and we have to be flexible because it's
55:51
a different time now. That's interesting, Joe.
55:54
I'd never thought of that. I'd never thought of that.
55:57
It's possible, however unlikely in my mind.
56:01
Maybe not a deliberate metaphor, but it is a metaphor now because
56:07
I came up with it. I like that, I like that.
56:11
And I, and I believe in it. You know, I, I think that change
56:15
is terrifying for some people, especially things that are tied
56:20
to our childhoods, to a very formative period in our lives.
56:24
And it's difficult to let go. It's difficult, you know, like
56:27
for me, it's one thing I, I have a, I'm able to separate the
56:31
business stuff from the memory stuff and be like, I got my 600
56:35
hours of whatever. Now it's this generation's turn
56:38
to build their new memories. That's fine, but it's not like
56:41
that for it's not the same for everyone.
56:43
And I do like the idea that this episode kind of might address
56:48
that a little bit because certainly our series has had,
56:51
you know, it, it stirred up some controversy among fans when it
56:56
was first coming down the Pike. And I think for the most part,
56:59
people have come around to seeing that our intentions are
57:02
true and whatever alterations there have been to this world
57:08
are pretty acceptable, you know, not all that bad, you know,
57:14
pushing things forward in a way that I think is acceptable for
57:17
today's market, but also what what we constitute humor today
57:22
and and also what's going on in the world, you know.
57:27
And so no, I like that idea, Joe.
57:29
I hadn't thought of that before, but I'm I'm totally running with
57:33
that now. Great.
57:34
Yes, yes, Episode 2. Yeah, the most meta episode of
57:40
all of them. Yeah.
57:42
Here is where we get our second song of the episode.
57:45
It's Wind Will Guide You. This is an original song.
57:49
Very lovely. You sing it very, very well,
57:53
Jordan. Well done.
57:54
Thank you, Sir. Thank you.
57:56
They read and when we were exploring some new caves, they
57:58
see some new creatures, including a bunch of rock
58:01
clingers. That's from an old original
58:03
series episode. Uncle Matt Comes home.
58:06
There are these like thin pink creatures that kind of look like
58:08
like pink snurfs. If you know what a snurf is,
58:11
chances are if you know what a snurf is, you also know what a
58:13
rock clinger is. But.
58:15
It's it's kind of like a blatch too.
58:17
If you maybe your terminology is a little different, sort of same
58:21
puppet the the the purple bearded, black bearded blatch,
58:26
something like that. Yeah.
58:28
And what were the what were the things from Earth to Ned?
58:32
Those, Yeah, those things where those are.
58:36
Called sort of similar, but it's like a glove with a dowel that
58:39
can slide up and down to make the neck grow and shrink.
58:42
And the eyes are mounted on top of the dowel so it's they can
58:45
like crawl along and then stretch its neck up tall.
58:49
But then if you look really closely, there's a couple of
58:52
them that are hand puppets too, like in the foreground, but they
58:57
all have this like tongues slack out of the side of their mouth.
59:01
They're great. And there's also like all these
59:05
big jellyfish looking creatures which I think we've seen before
59:08
on Fraggle Rocks. Spriners.
59:10
Spriners. Yeah, and I think those are from
59:13
the original series. The both the the whatever you
59:18
called the rock clingers and and the spruingers were also pulled
59:22
out of storage and refurbished. Great.
59:25
And they're gorgeous. I mean, how cool.
59:27
Like there's what a colorful world this is.
59:30
I love it. And, and what a beautiful job
59:32
Jordan and Karen did that this tracking shot that moves, it's
59:36
continuous, right? There's no cut.
59:37
It goes basically through the whole song as they weave through
59:41
these caves. And it was the way it was lit.
59:43
It was just such a magical day. I'll always remember shooting.
59:46
That song, yeah, you could feel it in the air.
59:48
It was just a beautiful time to all be together.
59:51
And there was a, a really like this electrified feeling when it
59:55
was all done. And it was.
59:57
And we were still pretty early on in the shoot, I guess.
1:00:00
So yeah, we needed that. That was beautiful.
1:00:03
You know, Speaking of Karen Prell, you spent a lot of time
1:00:07
with her Jordan on this episode. Do you want to talk a little bit
1:00:10
all about working with Karen Prell, the legend?
1:00:12
I'd love to, I'd love to. So right off the bat, Karen and
1:00:17
I agreed that this episode was huge because Red and Wembley
1:00:23
haven't really been developed. Their friendship really hasn't
1:00:26
been explored too deeply. And so this was an opportunity
1:00:29
to go there and have fun with it and learn things that we can
1:00:32
carry forward. And so we prepared like crazy
1:00:36
for it and for that song. I mean, this was it just, it
1:00:40
meant so much to us that we were, we were at a point where
1:00:43
we were just finishing each other's sentences in terms of
1:00:46
like, and then this and then this and that.
1:00:48
And I kind of feel like this is the emotion here and, and the
1:00:51
ways that we would deconstruct a scene and just try to make it as
1:00:55
good as it could possibly be. It was such a fun experience
1:00:59
with Karen as a scene partner. I mean, I just, I cannot sing
1:01:03
her praises enough. She was incredibly warm and
1:01:07
welcoming to me on season one, you know, taking over for Steve
1:01:11
Whitmire. And I think like this season, we
1:01:15
just just like Red and Wembley, we explored a new depth of our
1:01:18
relationship and it was really special for me and I hope it was
1:01:23
for her too cuz yeah man, that's great.
1:01:26
I knew. What a what a gift.
1:01:28
What a gift to get to hang out with her, just to just to like
1:01:31
be in her presence. That's so cool.
1:01:33
Yeah, it is. Oh, by the way, by the way, she,
1:01:35
she, she seems on the surface like she's very like, quiet and
1:01:38
timid, and then suddenly she'll just be like, move out of the
1:01:41
way. Slowpokes.
1:01:42
She's got this amazing way to just catch you off guard.
1:01:48
I love that about her. She's also very, very athletic.
1:01:52
Very athletic. She could probably kill the
1:01:54
three of us. She's an amazing, amazing
1:01:57
person. Yeah, just adventurous, full of
1:02:00
surprises. I really love Karen.
1:02:02
She's so cool. So what you're telling me is
1:02:05
don't get in her way? No, don't.
1:02:06
No. Don't mess with Karen Prell, OK?
1:02:10
Done. Yeah, she's a she's a machine.
1:02:14
A machine. So yeah, so Wembley in red,
1:02:19
they, they see all these cool creatures, they go through this
1:02:21
this place with these glowing vines look like Christmas
1:02:24
lights. And they find this icicle cavern
1:02:26
that makes music like a wind chime.
1:02:28
It's so cool, so beautiful. And then they decide to just
1:02:33
jump in this random hole. Sure, why not?
1:02:37
Wouldn't you? Or sure, fell 5 minutes ago,
1:02:41
they fell down a pit and they're like let's do it again.
1:02:46
Clearly our world has no rule, so let's do this.
1:02:50
Safety protocols engaged. Yeah, I don't want to get into
1:02:55
like, what are we, What are we teaching?
1:02:56
What's the lesson here? But sure, jump into a random
1:03:00
poll and hey, it turned out it worked because they're back on
1:03:03
track. They might just win this thing
1:03:06
and they're about to cross the finish line.
1:03:09
Moki runs backward in front of Red, which is impressive, so she
1:03:13
could paint red as she's she's crossing the finish line and
1:03:16
Moki accidentally wins the race. So congratulations, Moki.
1:03:22
Backwards and then heels. Backwards in it.
1:03:29
Yep, and she gets this cool looking again, these props.
1:03:31
A cool looking radish award. It's like a radish inside of a
1:03:34
spiral and she gets to put it on the shelf with all Red's awards
1:03:39
and Red gets this cool painting of her of herself as like this
1:03:43
running Red blur. Love these props so good it.
1:03:47
Was cool to see Monkey surprise herself.
1:03:49
I like that moment. Yeah, he was just wait.
1:03:52
Wait. What?
1:03:53
What? What?
1:03:53
Oh, I've had those. And she doesn't do the whole
1:03:59
like, oh, no, no, no, no, not me and Red going, what?
1:04:02
That's supposed to be my. It's like everyone's just like,
1:04:04
oh, oh, I guess I won. Great.
1:04:06
I won. And it's like, yeah, you did
1:04:07
Good job, your friend. Like.
1:04:10
I mean, I know part of that is just like, we need to end this
1:04:12
episode. It's like 20 to 4 minutes is
1:04:14
coming up fast. But yeah, no, it's nice that
1:04:17
they just kind of like, yeah, we'll go with it.
1:04:20
Yeah, they support each other. They do, like they're friends or
1:04:23
something. Well, yeah.
1:04:24
And they have perspective. We're going to have another one
1:04:27
of these. It's fine.
1:04:29
You're right, yeah. For all we know, they have a
1:04:32
twisty tournieth on every week. That's true.
1:04:38
The tag at the end of this episode, Wembley and Gobo
1:04:41
created a new game called How do you play it?
1:04:44
And Red asks how do you play it? And I guess that means she wins.
1:04:50
You know, I still, the last time I watched it, I I tried to make
1:04:55
sense of it in my mind and something, a voice inside just
1:04:58
went, Jordan, stop. I said OK, it's one of those.
1:05:04
You know what it reminded me of when I was in elementary school?
1:05:07
There was like a thing called the game, and the only way you
1:05:12
would lose the game is if you thought about the game.
1:05:15
That's what was the whole. Game.
1:05:16
That's the game. And Dang it, I just lost the
1:05:19
game. Even still, I'm in my 40s and
1:05:22
every so often I'll think about the game and be like, shoot, I
1:05:24
lost again. I still do that to myself.
1:05:29
But this feels like the the more positive fragly version.
1:05:33
Yeah, like it's almost like, yeah, the the the point of the
1:05:37
game is you have to get someone to ask you how to play the game
1:05:41
and you did it and that's the game and there's no follow up
1:05:46
and. Choose the form of the
1:05:47
destroyer. Yes, right.
1:05:52
So Gobo tells Boober that it's his turn to play.
1:05:57
But Boober says, oh, my doctor told me I'm still supposed to
1:05:59
rest my shoulder. And the camera pans back to
1:06:02
Doctor Boober. And he says I actually told him
1:06:05
that he's good to go. And the camera pans back to
1:06:07
Boober Prime and he's like, oh, come on.
1:06:10
So now the boobers can't even agree on anything but adding
1:06:15
more questions to is Doctor Boober real?
1:06:18
Is he? Are there 2 boobers?
1:06:21
Is it Boober just messing with himself?
1:06:23
Is Boober having a side bottom moments?
1:06:26
Well we may never know. That's the end of the episode.
1:06:30
We may never know, but wouldn't it be great to know I I love all
1:06:35
those options. Yes, I think it was the the
1:06:37
mushrooms spores that were travelling through the air that
1:06:40
day. Oh sure, because of the Gusty's
1:06:43
they're blowing the mushroom spores around.
1:06:45
Right, it's just a hallucination.
1:06:46
Strange hallucinogenic. Yeah, a natural hallucination.
1:06:50
Yeah, so guys, I need to ask you a very important question.
1:06:58
And after watching this episode, and after having worked on a on
1:07:01
a whole season of Back to the Rock, how do you plan to make
1:07:05
this world a little fragglier? I think continuing to show love,
1:07:13
but not the word love and perhaps not even what the common
1:07:19
conception of love is because there is so much sacrifice in
1:07:25
it, it's not even funny. And I'd like to continue trying
1:07:29
to tap into that. That's fragly to me it's.
1:07:35
Pretty fragly. Yeah, Ben.
1:07:38
I would say to find the joy in everything that happens because
1:07:46
Fraggles just have this boundless optimism and positive
1:07:50
spin that they put on everything.
1:07:52
It's like, you know, even the most mundane thing can be
1:07:56
infused with joy. Love that.
1:08:01
Wonderful. Well, Jordan Lockhart, Ben du
1:08:04
Roche, thank you both so much for being here.
1:08:07
Thank you so much for all that your amazing work on Back to the
1:08:10
Rock. It truly is a wonderful show and
1:08:13
I'm so grateful that it exists. So thank you for all that you've
1:08:16
done to make that a possibility. Our pleasure.
1:08:19
Thanks man. Thanks, Joe.
1:08:22
Of course, of course. And I hope that everyone tunes
1:08:25
into our next episode of Fraggle.
1:08:28
Talk Back to The Rock coming up next week and we'll see you all
1:08:32
then. Bye bye.
1:08:34
Bye Fraggle Talk, The unofficial Fraggle Rock Podcast is brought
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