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Dr. Nancy Morgan. This Work Is Spiritual: from the archives · The Trauma Therapist

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Or today we even another episode from the archives with one of my incredible guests.
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Enjoy or welcome back to the Trauma Divers Podcast. My name is guiming
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Person. My mission is to help trauma therapists be their incredible selves, to
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be human, to be real, not just a clinician. I'm a big
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believer in who we are is more important than what we know, and this
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requires cultivating authenticity, genuineness, and vulnerability, and that requires intention. Can
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learn more about my courses and workshops by going to the Trauma Therapist Project dot
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com. That's the Trauma Therapist Project dot com. Let's get started. Alight,
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guys, welcome back to the Trauma Divers podcast and Ted you have doctor
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Nancy Morgan. Back, Nancy, welcome, Thank you guy, So good
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to be back. Thank you to Doctor Nancy Morgan specializes both and working with
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adults with severe mental health challenges whose traumatic history is influenced and inform their thoughts
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and behaviors, and in providing trauma focused training and supervision to future therapists.
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Her primary work has been in partial hospitalization program settings, where she served as
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a clinician manager, most often as program supervisor. Currently, doctor Morrigan worked
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as a director of behavioral health at Life Moves, Northern California's largest agency dedicated
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to breaking psycholop homelessness, where she's developed a trauma focused, mindfulness based training
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curriculum. Whe she provides ssydactics, supervisors and mentors graduate psychology students. Awesome,
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So welcome again, before we could go into your share with all those
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years, where you're from, where you're calling from, and then let's dive
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in. Okay, So for those who have heard the previous interviews, you
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know that I'm from a little town in Colorado. I always like to name
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that because I think so much of our upbringing informs so much of our views
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as adults, and so a very strong connection with nature guided me through my
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early years. And then I came out west and went to college out here
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in the Bay Area UC Santa Cruz, and then stayed in the Bay Area
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for graduate school. I am currently sitting at my desk at Life Moves,
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the agency that you mentioned, where I get to run the program I developed,
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which is a trauma focused, mindfulness based forty six week graduate training program
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providing supports to the residents that we're serving here who are currently homeless well,
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all right, sounds awesome, So let's kind of dive in. You know,
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before we kind of scheduled this, I'd reach out to you and you
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shared some kind of exciting things when you're doing something that not a lot of
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people are doing, and as a result, not a lot of students are
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getting the opportunity to learn in that kind of contact and setting. So right,
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share with our listeners what you're doing, and let's let's let's get into
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it. Okay, Yeah, it is different. So because I'm working not
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at a community mental health site but at a human services agency that's real focus
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is on providing the supports necessary, intensive integrated supports to stabilize individuals. Many
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of these folks are also families with children and sometimes two generations of you know,
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grandparents, as uncles, people who've been trying to stay in tact,
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as families who for one reason or another become homeless. And our goal as
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an agency is to be able to place these individuals in stable housing. So
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it's very integrated case management support. But now in this agency, we're now
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in our tenth year of a graduate training site being developed early on by a
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woman who really deserves a lot of credit because she came in and saw that
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a lot of these families, children, veterans, individuals could really benefit from
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clinical supports while they were here. And you know, if we can help
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people change their minds or their perceptions or their beliefs, and a lot of
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them faulty beliefs about themselves, that we can help create different futures. So
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the program arted and developed and sort of morphed into a psychodynamic program. And
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then when I came in, I'm now in my fourth graduate training year.
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I really recognize the amount of trauma that was here, and that's always been
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a part of my background. But I'm also a Bajrihanna Tibetan Buddhist practitioner for
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almost the last twenty years, and I recognize the need to take care of
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ourselves and to be able to recognize too differences between perceptions like ultimate and relative
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realities, and a lot of folks, a lot of folks are really suffering
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right now and really struggling in a freeman and develop some of our own mindfulness
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pectuses. Or if I can support the students developing their own, then I
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am creating a resource source for the students to go in and utilize as they're
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working with somebody. That really helps reduce the amount of countertransference that comes up
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for a lot of students and helps them deal with some of their own anxiety.
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And that's also something that if the clients are interested in people can the
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students can teach the clients and then they have something sustainable to take with them
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as they go onto their stable housing. So how I get to do this,
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how I got to do any of this is because Life Moves. We've
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got about a twenty million dollars a year budget. We're really a large agency
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covering all of San Mateo and all of Santa Clara County, and we've got
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probably I guess forty percent of our income is private and that means that I
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am fully funded. My program is fully funded by private donors. And without
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the private donors, I really wouldn't have the latitude to do what I'm doing
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or get to be innovative in the way I'm doing it because I'm beholden to
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no one other than people who want to fund this program, and then I'm
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able to do report for them at the end about what we're doing and capturing
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outcome outcomes that show that their money is translating into something that's not only meaningful
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while clients are here, but possibly meaningful continuing on for the rest of their
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lives. Your description of you know, what the program does and how it
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educates these income and graduate students. You know, my reaction was, this
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sounds amazing. It also sounds pretty ambitious. I mean it sounds like an
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ideal almost in a sense. Can you kind of break break it down?
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What does that look like when these when these students come in, How do
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you introduce this this topic within the context of these clients. Well, I
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want to tell you first, I am absolutely an idealist and in the words
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one of my really treasured mentors, Dick Schwartz, he always talks about being
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a hope merchant. I'm a huge hopeful chant. You know. I want
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to and this is this is for me, the dream of what our field
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can embody at its greatest potential. In terms of the clinical piece. We
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can do amazing assessment, we can do amazing research, but this clinical piece
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of working with individuals and working with ourselves is an area that I feel we've
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we're losing. It's becoming corporatized. It's not becoming it has on so many
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levels, and I think what we're losing is the ability to really recognize how
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to develop ourselves and our greatest capacity to do transformational and healing work. So
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one, that's my premise that this work is meaningful, it has value,
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and it can be done, but we have to do it in different ways
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because the first issue is our graduate training. And my first thought in my
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ideal graduate school program would be to begin immediately working students to develop their own
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inequalities that are already to be in them. A lot of them just lying
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dormant, waiting for the attention to really value developmental qualities like compassion and creativity
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and caring and the call that comes from mindfulness. So many of these qualities
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are really their greatest strengths. And for those of us who've been doing this
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work awhile, we realize that at a certain point we had to let go
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of the books and the theory when nothing was working with the client we were
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with other than to really drop in and really deeply listen to me present with
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the client. So one I speak about it. So I'm speaking this afternoon
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at Palo Alto University. I get to speak with you. This is so
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great and you know, I get to be able to talk about this.
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My hope is that people will recognize that we really this is a time for
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us to innovate. And Adam Grant's wonderful book Originals is one I like to
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refer to individuals because he really talks about who are the innovators and what is
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it that they're doing or that we're doing. So I put it out there
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the students hear about it from other students, and so when it comes time
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to do the interviews and the Big baypic Fair, I've set up my table.
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Students come, they express their interests, I have them in for group
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interviews, and then I have them back for individual interviews. But they already
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come in pretty much knowing that this is what they're going to get. And
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for a lot of students, I really have to appreciate them immensely because they're
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really conditioned and groomed to have successful careers. And so a lot of them
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choose to work with the homeless in this environment instead of going to probably what
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would be considered more prestigious sites and settings hospitals. Bas A lot of them
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move on from here to their internships and go to vas and hospitals. But
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I'm really glad to get them right here early on, because I know,
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no matter where they go, they will have developed some greater awareness than I
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think they're getting much support in being able to develop, and I know they'll
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take that with them. So I think I covered most of what you said,
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guy, but I know you did to me again. It's super exciting,
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and I know I shared this with you last time you spoke, or
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maybe even both both times we spoke previously. You know, when I was
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in graduate school, I did the exact opposite of what you're teaching. You
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know. I'd come to school kind of an older student. I was thinking
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was thirty five, and I kind I had been in therapy and I got
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a lot out of it, and I've been around the block a little,
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and I kind of thought I kind of had that stuff locked in, dialed
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in. I didn't. I didn't need to work on that so much.
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And consequently I was like, what book do I need to read? What
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workshop do I What do I need to bring into me to become, you
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know, the trauma therapist I wanted to become. I didn't honor just as
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what you were saying, my own compaction my own creativity. I didn't value
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that. I didn't understand that is the value of the foundation, the essence
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of this work. And in addition, exactly what you're saying, I've learned
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and heard over and over and over again on this podcast from people who've been
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doing this for years, that that's exactly the gold nugget that these people have
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come to realize is that they needed to put the book down and open that
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gate, open that door, open themselves up. And that's not always easy,
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but that's where you know, the exchange of the heart, the energy
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that this foundation can happen. That to me is so exciting. Why is
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that or how is that difficult or challenging for a lot of people? Well,
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the first thing I'd say is, I think it's challenging for graduate training
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programs because first they're holding to other regulatory agencies that oversee a lot of how
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they do well. They oversee what they do and how they do it.
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But again, I think what happens too is I do know some amazing professors,
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adding professors, tenure professors who also maintain a limited private practice because they
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keep their feet and their heart and their hands and their minds in their deep
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connections with clients and they're always growing and always learning, and meanwhile they're teaching
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what they need to teach. But I think it can happen that we get
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locked away into our into our towers and we forget. I don't know why
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we don't have graduate school trainings that don't feature numerous clients who come in,
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people from the community who have utilized years of mental health therapy to come in
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and talk to students about what worked for them and what didn't. Just panel
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discussions of what worked and what didn't, and then also for us to be
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able to recognize there are diagnoses that carry a lot of stigma, sociopathy,
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you know, to antisocial personality, to sort of a lot of stigma,
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narcissism, but also borderline personality disorder a lot of people. I mean,
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I have heard I don't know any therapists who have said I don't see borderlines,
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but I've heard many people say that, And I think that tells me
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something in you was been able to get prepared to do this work because you
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don't know who walks in your door. It doesn't matter how affluent they are,
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how educated they are. We don't know about what happened in early childhood
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around their attachments. We don't know attachment trauma and how it's played out,
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but we all can see suffering. And when clients can get up, and
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a whole spectrum of clients could get up, people who just want to volunteer
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and tell their stories and then share what hurt them in the therapy process and
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what helped them. I just think that would be the greatest thing ever and
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a group and a great opportunity for Q and A with the students. Yeah,
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and so I do just access to that. It's like the nugget,
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as you say, it's right there. It just we're walking around it instead
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of picking it up and realizing how amazingly golden it is. When you talked
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about, you know, allowing or inviting the graduate students to kind of honor
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and discover their own creativity and learn the value of it within this work,
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how a little bit about how you do that? Okay, Yeah, so
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why go ahead? Yeah? So I think this is super important. So
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these are students, this is a training year. They're also working with some
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of the most traumatized people that we can never work with. So they need
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to have really, really good supports in place so they can do this work
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and develop their own confidence in their competenence. So the forty six week curriculum
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is designed strategically to give them the first eight weeks of a deep, deep
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immersion into foundational trainings that this whole program is built upon. First thing they
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all get the Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Vandercole. This is why they
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I want them to be informed about trauma and and then I also give them
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intro to internal family systems. That's what I gave them this year, just
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because that is a tool they can use with clients. It was written for
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the lay person and for clients, so I give them that because they can
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also start looking at their own systems and their own develop their own awareness of
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from an IFS perspective, self and parts awareness. So I start that pretty
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early. But then they also get their mandatory reporter training. You know,
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guy, I was like you. I was in graduate school in my late
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thirties. I didn't get done until my late thirties, and so from that
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point on until I came back to the Peninsula and took a course offered by
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San Mateo County Behavioral Health, a course of mandatory reporter training. I had
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never ever had training in mandatory reporting. I knew I was one, I
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had no idea what to do or how to do it, so I thought,
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well, this is really important. It turns out quite a few of
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the students, but not all of them, did receive this training last year
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because I take students that are their second year and on, so they have
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had some exposure. That's for the doctoral students. I have three master students
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that are all our therapy students, since this will be sometimes the first time
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they've worked with clients, so they get that they get We have created,
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in partnership with the Stanford Trauma researcher doctor Jennifer Keller, a group called BEAR.
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I've spoken about it. It's building empowerment and resilience and it is a
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it is funded by one of our funders that really wants to address the issue
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of intimate partner violence and how often that connects to homelessness for women and their
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children. So we created BEAR. The first week of our blessed these students
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hearts because the first week of our of our sort of information session getting to
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know you icebreakers, it was really short. We had a brief ice breaker
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and then we launched right into it, five intensive days of the self defense
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component of BEAR and we got a grant. We've got our body shield,
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Kickshields myths, and this amazing doctor Keller, who's a black belt, comes
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in and teaches the students. The first thing we teach somebody is to use
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their voice and to know that they are worth defending. All of this is
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about teaching people that they are worth protecting and getting away from harm. It's
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not about violence, it's not about aggression. It's getting away from harm to
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save yourself. So that was basically how the students came this week of it
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this year was to have a full week. It ended up being one of
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the most amazing bonding experiences ever. Was a total mystery how this could have
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been as great as it was, but they really they suddenly started to get
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a sense of what this year was going to be like and really what they
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were going to do in this year. So that was right off the bat.
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And then we had the amazing doctor Vill Murrayus who's up at UCSF,
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who created the Building Bridges curriculum with us, which is really about supporting parents
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who have experienced trauma to understand the legacy burden of trauma and how to be
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able to work with that and what happened in their own early attachment, and
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how to really look ahead to working with their children, many of whom have
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experienced trauma, but looking ahead like twenty years and what would you want your
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child to say about you twenty years from now in terms of how they felt
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parented or loved or supported or nurtured. And that's what we start supporting right
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now. So all of that is how it all gets started. And then
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we do we also have a speakers coming, doctor Amy bessel Crow's coming to
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work on provider training on children and trauma, so they're getting a heavy trauma
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foundation right off the bat. And then it's one week after another where we're
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just building over and over and over, doing a lot of IFS videos.
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I really really appreciate ifs so very much, and then we build more and
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more into the mindfulness component and every element of this. The work I do
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with contracted supervisors where they're all we're all on the same page. They'll have
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their unique perspectives, but we're all on the same page about wanting to cultivate
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the students qualities within themselves. Then we'll we get to a place where the
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students are right now. There we have to create a safe container for them
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to learn to fall down, to get back up again, to know that
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this is all part of the process. Over and over, I tell them
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it's a training year. It's a training year. You're learning. And they
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start by about January to really find their feet. And then I watched them
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just go into the remainder of the year just so prepared and so willing,
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and then then their excitement grows. Right now, they're still anxious. They're
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afraid of doing something wrong. And that's one of the things that we have
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to work with, which is there is no wrong, you just try.
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It's like Yoda, you know, there's no try. You just do it.
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You go out and do it. That reminds me of when I was
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previously working at a clinic here in northern California. You know, we were
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assessing and treating kids showing the early signs of psychosis. And I had someone
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new out of graduate school, and I remember one of the supervisors saying,
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you know what this relation with these kids, and they were kids we were
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working with. You've got to be willing to take off your clinical hat and
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I looked at him and I was like, this guy, nuts, I
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just know. I've just been in graduated school for four years learning. I
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just I just got it to fit the way I wanted it to fit.
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Now you're asking me to take this thing off with you and that I never
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forgot that. And I over the course of the five years that I was
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there, I really kind of learned how to do that. And Nancy,
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it wasn't until you know, when I was at that position and I was
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at work one day and my mom died. I got called the call.
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It was crazy, and I had to take off work and had to deal
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with that, and and then I went back to work and I wasn't ready.
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I got I got triggered in session with a client. I took off
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four times. And it wasn't until I went through that process and I came
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back there was I dropped. I was able to just drop everything and connect
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with people on a level that I hadn't experienced before. Yeah, yeah,
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talk about that, Yeah, I can't. It was like it was like
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you just all of a sudden, your life changed, all of a sudden,
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All of a sudden, you didn't need to have the controls that you
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thought you did. That's in your mother's death. There's no control. All
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you could do is present with it, experience your feelings, your grief,
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your love, your loss. And that's exactly what the clients need us to
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do with them. That's exactly it. I don't think I've ever articulated like
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that. It was. I didn't need that. There was just just trust
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in to use a happening phrase, trust in the process, trusting in myself,
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trust in who that I didn't have that need for control. No,
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yeah, that's exactly what it was. Yeah. Yeah, So that's such
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a good place to get to, and sometimes it takes that big kind of
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life event to get you there, but it's very purifying. I mean,
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it just distills and you get to the heart of what really does matter with
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the students. When we start, we always meet on Wednesdays nine to twelve
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thirty. We have our component. That's basically I always have a checking We
26:32
have a two minute silent meditation. The students may join or not in whatever
26:36
way they want. I give them a couple prompts about basically allowing any places
26:41
that might be holding tension their brows, typically their throat, their chest their
26:47
shoulders, to just allow them to relax and roll back, and to take
26:51
two minutes and follow your breath, soft gazed down the end of your nose,
26:56
eyes closed, for anybody who wants it. It's anation. Nobody has
27:02
to do it, but it's to recognize and honor whatever guidance we have internally
27:07
externally. I've only begun using these terms in the last couple of years.
27:12
At sixty, I don't mind using them so much anymore. And I mean
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it's like I'm not afraid of being judged or dismissed because I'll use words like
27:22
guidance and I just ask because if there's anything that will benefit us in our
27:29
growth and in our delivery of services to clients, of course I want to
27:33
welcome it. And then I always have a check in. And there are
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many times the students have said I needed this so badly this morning, or
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driving in, I couldn't wait to just get a chance to be here for
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this two minutes and checking in and by the time, you know, and
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it's gotten harder, guy, because we kind of outgrew our space here and
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now we're having to meet off site because I've got nineteen students this year,
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and when I started, it was nine and it takes a while to get
28:03
all the way around the table, so we have to limit it about two
28:07
minutes per person, and not always everybody's there. We have alumni who are
28:11
here who are doing their own projects and dissiputations, but still it's a much
28:15
bigger group. But just to take that two minutes and identify what's going on
28:19
with them, we all hear each other. And I'm so struck by some
28:25
of the major life events. They're dealing with, divorce with their parents,
28:30
breakups themselves, significant health issues. I am stunned. Every year it seems
28:36
like it increases. These are students who are dealing with profoundly serious health issues,
28:41
and it makes me question the amount of stress anybody is able to carry
28:48
during a period where they're trying to have relationship, work, school, do
28:52
all of their assignments. I just I watch them not only so fatigued and
28:56
tired, but physically physically not well, and so I just think, Okay,
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I can at least create this space for them to be present and recognize
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where they are, because if they didn't and we just launched into a training,
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you know, they're carrying all of that here it can be shared,
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and a lot of times they're so beautiful the way that they'll just honor each
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other. We take a break and I'll just see students connecting with each other,
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and they're often you know, they don't many of them don't know each
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other before this year. They're from different schools, And it's just always touches
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me when we when we create the foundation and we provide the supports and we
29:38
ensure the safety, the students will grow. Just like a plant. It's
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just we build the foundation. The student's nature is to grow. It's very
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you know, it's Maslow, it's Rogers, it's that awareness. What really
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strikes me about what you've been saying throughout here is the how you're honoring the
30:03
humanness of the clinician within within this process. How you're focusing on that and
30:11
really valuing that, because you know, you talked about much of this work
30:18
now is becoming corporatized, and it allows one to to do anything but that
30:25
right there. Everything has to be the result oriented. But what you're saying
30:32
here reminds me of something that past guest Peter, Peter Bernstein, really had
30:37
to learn the hard way, and he said, you know, what I
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learned is that we're no different than our clients. And that's that's very different
30:45
than kind of approaching things the way I initially did, and in the most
30:51
respectful way. I try to which I want to learn so that I can
30:55
help and I can fix. And that's a very different dynamic. But what
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you're talking about here, it sounds like a real spiritual process. It is,
31:10
so it sounds it sounds, it sounds amazing. It really does nineteen
31:18
people. It sounds like you need to get more people. I have great
31:22
supervisors assisting me. I couldn't do it with that. Plus every year more
31:26
alumni stay on to do dissertations or special projects or to aid like in our
31:32
neuropsyche assessments have I just have wonderful alumni who are coming in and doing great
31:37
work to help me. I could never do it. I mean, it
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really does take everybody. But I want to jump back, guy, because
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one of the things that I remember, I attended the Evolution of Psychotherapy conference
31:52
last December down in anaheunt Aaron Beck was video sort of video conferenced in.
31:57
He's there sitting at home in his wheelchair. It's this little red bow tie.
32:01
And you know, there are students who really learned. They come in
32:06
and they really learn a lot about CBT, really strong with CBT. That's
32:09
their hat and that's what that's what they learned, and of course they want
32:14
to try it. So I always say absolutely, and then if it doesn't
32:19
work, then I want you to have these other things to fall back on,
32:24
And so I don't need them to suddenly just take off a hat and
32:30
be vulnerable. It's like it would never take something away that is the only
32:35
thing that they might have much confidence in. Or being really steeped in psychodynamic
32:39
you don't see that as much anymore, but we still see it. But
32:43
the truth Aaron beck I thought said it so well. He said, we
32:46
can have manuals, but we can never manualize the therapist. We always have
32:53
to be the vehicle, the facilitator, the one who is in whatever our
33:00
theoretical orientation, we're thinking about how to be present and bring forth what is
33:07
most needed at that time for the land. And so it's good to learn
33:15
different theoretical approaches. But I can tell you I ran to the end of
33:17
my train with CBT, and with psychodynamic it did get to a different place,
33:22
and you mentioned the word spiritual. It got to a place where it
33:27
became much more spiritual. It was people's existential crises. It was since feelings
33:32
of meaninglessness, hopelessness, worthlessness. It was very hard to have them focused
33:40
too much on their thoughts and the negative results that might come from certain thoughts
33:46
when they were just trying to do everything they could to hold themselves together.
33:52
And I see that they you know, they took how many buses and they
33:55
put themselves together the best they could, and you know, they're just there,
34:01
and of course they're vulnerable. They may have had therapy in the past
34:06
that didn't help them, that maybe even hurt them, and they're taking a
34:08
chance. And two things just come to mind. One is now, because
34:15
the APA requirement that it went into effect, the students need to have at
34:19
least one tape session. I encouraged them to do more. But I remember
34:22
at one our homeless drop in sight in Palato, one of the students had
34:28
gotten permission from one client she'd work with woman who had just a profound history
34:32
of trauma, and she said, would you like to be a person that
34:37
I videotaped for my supervision session? And the woman agreed and signed the release.
34:44
She went to Goodwill, She got herself the best clothes she could,
34:47
She did her hair, and when the student had set up the computer and
34:53
then gotten up to walk around and sit, the computer was on record,
34:58
the client looked in. She was looking at her reflection, and she was
35:01
composing herself to give the best presentation of herself. That person had been sleeping
35:07
in the bushes the night before. This is this is the humanity that we're
35:15
connecting with. That something in her allowed herself to be even more vulnerable to
35:22
be seen, but she was going to find a way to be seen in
35:24
the best possible way. She hadn't given up. There's that, that hope
35:30
is there? So we that's really that asks us to be incredibly sensitive and
35:37
incredibly caring. And I tell the students the first thing, you know,
35:45
I love the word spirit I love it because I love that it comes from
35:49
Latin spirit is. I love that the first thing we do when we're born
35:53
is breathe in. The last thing we do in this form is breathe out.
35:59
And it feels to me like, well, when you're starting with spiritus
36:02
and you're ending with spiritus, let's just look at this life as being a
36:06
life full of breath after breath that can inform and nourish us to really look
36:13
at what our greater capacity is. And if we only look at ourselves as
36:16
parts without an essence that somehow has healing qualities and perceptive qualities, then we're
36:23
going to miss a huge part of our potential. And the thing I say
36:29
to the students is you don't need to believe me, but check it out.
36:32
Just try just explore it a little bit. So I give them the
36:36
supports to support it, and then some just go crazy for it, and
36:39
others are like, Okay, that's been helpful, great, but they've got
36:44
kind of their path. I just want to support whoever it is doing whatever
36:47
they're going to do. So people listening to this, you know a lot
36:52
of them are all clinicians, kind of just starting out on the common inform
36:57
journey. Maybe people have some experience and now want to become common informed.
37:05
You only have what twenty people in this program? A couple of things,
37:09
what would you advise those people who are listening who like this sounds amazing,
37:15
Nan, It's only has room for twenty people. Obviously, I'm not going
37:17
to get in there or where would you direct them. Yeah, okay,
37:29
it's such a good question, guy, I think you and I should be
37:32
on I think we should speak at some conferences and go to graduate schools and
37:38
just talk about a bigger vision and a future vision and be able to work
37:45
with some innovative lectures and professors and graduate students, because I really do think
37:52
it's the time to envision a healthier, more holistic future for our field.
37:59
We we have an amazing field, but I don't feel we're maximizing our potential
38:05
and what we can do and how it can be used in so many greater
38:08
ways. So one of the things is, of course your podcast, so
38:15
I get to bring it right back to you. Look what you're doing.
38:17
You know. This was a great support for me when I started listening to
38:22
your podcasts because you're bringing so many people in who've had so much experience and
38:27
they're speaking about they're speaking from their lived experience, and I think that's huge.
38:32
The other is we really need to find a way to listen to clients
38:36
more and do in California what they've done in Oregon for years, which is
38:40
create a certification process for peer support specialists, and that's people with lived experience
38:47
who then get certified to come in and do work within community mental health settings
38:52
and residential settings to be able to be skills trainers, which is a term
38:57
up in Oregon. I don't know that we've got that here, but to
39:00
work within the agencies with leadership and with clients to be that bridge. So
39:06
it's not just too tiered. I think we need that fluidity and learning from
39:10
these people who are so amazing in the stories that they have to share about
39:17
their own journey. So it's thinking about doing things like that in California and
39:23
other states, looking at what your states offer in terms of supports for individuals
39:30
with lived experience. I think, you know, I think people who are
39:39
teaching in graduate school, if they drop in and really think about, like
39:44
you've said, what was missing when you got out? Because I had the
39:47
same thing. I did have a really amazing mentor and he's still in my
39:51
life. He's eighty seven now, and you know, curiously, he was
39:54
the one that said to me one day, he said, Nancy, this
39:59
work is all spiritual. We just don't call it that because it was back
40:02
in the eighties, you know, back in the early nineties, and graduate
40:07
schools didn't call it that, so I'm calling it that, And I think
40:15
I think it just has to continue rippling out, you know, sort of
40:17
that drop and rippling out. So talks like this, reading recommendations like you've
40:22
got human services agencies like Life Moves, any human service agency that is relying
40:30
a lot on private funding can create a program just like this. I am
40:35
so happy to share how simple a model this is. And one person at
40:39
thirty two hours a week, working with some wonderful supervisors can do this work,
40:47
and we can innovate, and we can work with the population directly.
40:52
They don't need to come to our office anywhere. So if we can just
40:58
find one little room in a human services agency out of which we can operate,
41:01
it can be anything. I think that's also a way to sort of
41:06
take our work out to the streets. No, what's the best way for
41:09
people to get in contact with you, Nancy? Because I'd a feeling people
41:13
will want to my email dr dot nl Morgan at gmail dot com. And
41:22
then I've got my website which is www dot d r n L Morgan dot
41:29
com. And then my amazing sons are doing a YouTube page for me.
41:37
Oh nice, because I've got some videos and trainings that it's really hard to
41:42
send things over size and sometimes we get into complications around technology. So I
41:49
just thought it'd be so much easier if people could just click on a particular
41:52
talker tray. So that's something that in knowing, thank you for two because
41:58
you've acknowledged and allowed me to take some of what we've done together on Trauma
42:04
Therapist Podcast and be able to showcase it on that on YouTube site. It's
42:07
not up yet, it's probably about two months away from being the Okay,
42:12
well, I'd love to have that as well as your email address and the
42:16
website on the show notes. Patriot at the Traumatist podcast dot com. Nancy,
42:22
love it, Love talking to you. Like I said before this,
42:25
what you say is exactly what I want and aspire this podcast to be about.
42:32
So it's it's an honor having you on here. It is an honor
42:38
being on here guy. And there's one last thing and it just pops want
42:44
to say it if you haven't had her on yet, the woman whose name
42:49
I'm forgetting, who wrote Trauma Stewardship. Oh, she has been on and
42:55
she's coming on again. I forget her name. Yeah, yeah, good
43:02
she's coming back on. Yeah, I've been newly acquainted with that book.
43:07
I feel like it's a book. If I could have written a book,
43:10
that's the book I would have written. I love it, and so that
43:15
is now also a book that I'm recommending to anybody who's doing this work.
43:19
Another resource to mention. I'm going to here it is briefly, Oh,
43:29
Laura Vandernewt Mitzki. Yes, that's what it is. That's going to get
43:32
me all right, Thanks so much. We'll talk to you all right,
43:36
guy. I wish you a wonderful day, all right, Bye bye